0:02

This is a Global Player

0:04

original podcast. Is Biden too

0:06

old? No, I think when you look

0:08

at Biden or anybody else, look at you, look at

0:11

me. You look at

0:13

the totality of the person. Biden

0:16

has done a number of very, very good

0:18

things. Does it

0:21

matter that he's mixing up dead presidents,

0:23

French presidents with living ones over and

0:25

over again? Does it matter that he's going

0:27

out there and making these sort of mistakes? That

0:30

was Bernie Sanders, independent senator

0:33

for Vermont. And

0:35

today on The News Agency USA,

0:37

we talk about Biden's age, Trump's

0:40

racism, campaign financing

0:43

and whether it's actually destroying democracy

0:46

and just what should be happening

0:48

in Gaza and in Ukraine.

0:51

Welcome to News Agency USA. It's

1:00

John. It's Emily. And a little

1:02

later, I'm going to be speaking to Bernie Sanders.

1:04

But probably a good place to start is what is

1:06

the latest in the race to

1:08

become the Republican nominee, which we

1:11

still know that Donald Trump is the

1:13

runaway favorite. But this weekend,

1:15

they are voting in South Carolina, which

1:17

is where Nikki Haley used to be

1:19

the governor. And we

1:21

can't work yesterday with some excitement. Well,

1:23

sort of. I woke up at five

1:26

o'clock, little text from my upper night

1:28

Canadian son saying Nikki Haley is about

1:30

to give a press conference. And I

1:32

just assumed you'd have jet lag. I did. And

1:35

sure enough, there we were chatting away quite happily digitally

1:37

at 5 a.m., thinking, is this game to

1:40

be the moment? I'm glad you clarified digitally. Yes, I mean,

1:42

you know, what can I say? We

1:44

thought it might be a moment. All the sort

1:46

of hairs were raised, weren't they? This is going to

1:48

be the moment when Nikki Haley pulls out of the

1:50

race. And yet she

1:53

actually turned it into probably

1:55

the best press conference that she's had for a while.

1:58

Some of you, perhaps a few. of you in

2:00

the media came here today to

2:03

see if I'm dropping out of the race. Well,

2:11

I'm

2:15

not.

2:19

Far from it. And

2:21

I'm here to tell you why.

2:23

I'm running for president because we have

2:25

a country to save. Yeah. What

2:27

she did was she called it the

2:30

state of the race, this news conference. So there

2:32

was only one assumption that you could draw. It

2:34

is that she was pulling out. It is that

2:36

she was packing up her tent, folding away the

2:39

tent poles and just going off and doing something

2:41

else with her life. And that guaranteed

2:44

that she had Fox News taking it

2:46

live. Full audience. Full audience of all

2:49

the right wing cable channels that wanted

2:51

to hear that she was finally bending

2:53

the knee to Donald Trump instead of

2:56

which she had other ideas. That's

3:01

why I refuse to quit. South

3:03

Carolina will vote on Saturday, but

3:06

on Sunday, I'll still be

3:08

running for president. I'm not

3:11

going anywhere. Now

3:14

the giveaway there is

3:16

her preposition, but as

3:19

soon as she says, but I'm not

3:21

quitting, what you realize is that she

3:23

knows or she believes she will

3:25

not win South Carolina, but

3:28

she is going to stay in the race.

3:31

And I guess you can look at it two

3:33

ways, right? You can either say what

3:35

on earth she's doing. The race is over.

3:37

It's going to be embarrassing. It's

3:39

humiliating by March the 16th. He'll

3:41

probably have the requisite number of

3:43

delegate votes to take

3:46

him all the way to the convention. Or

3:49

you flip it on its head and say, is there

3:51

anything so wrong with having somebody

3:54

center stage who's actually

3:56

now getting braver with age

3:58

or with death? He's

4:01

just a bit more prepared to call him out. And

4:04

maybe a third factor as well in

4:06

all of this. Nikki Haley's

4:08

52 years old. She could

4:10

run for president in 2040 and still

4:12

be younger than Donald Trump was when

4:15

he took power at the beginning of

4:17

2017. She's got

4:19

a lot of mileage left. If

4:21

Donald Trump loses the election

4:23

in November to Joe

4:25

Biden, a lot of people, a

4:27

lot of Republicans are going to start saying, maybe

4:30

Nikki Haley was right. Maybe Nikki Haley

4:32

had a point when she stayed in the race for as

4:34

long as she did. And there have

4:36

been a whole series of other Republicans

4:39

who've had another crack at it, who have

4:41

been allowed to lose. Not least, well, not

4:43

Biden on the Democrat side. And not least

4:45

Donald Trump in 2024. And

4:48

so, yeah, there is a very good

4:50

reason why she should continue to stay

4:52

in the race to make her argument

4:54

that Trump is inconsistent, that chaos follows

4:56

wherever he goes, that he has got

4:58

his own mental health problems and his

5:01

own kind of issues about senility

5:03

and mental acuity. And therefore she's

5:05

got a reason. It's what we

5:07

call the ACH argument. Anything

5:09

could happen, right? I think we both feel like

5:12

that in different ways. I think a lot of

5:14

the American voting population feels like

5:16

that, that on the one hand it's

5:18

done already. It's Biden versus Trump. And

5:21

on the other hand, ACH. Anything

5:23

could happen. Yeah. And I

5:25

just think that she is positioning herself well.

5:27

She obviously decided at Iowa

5:30

there was no chance that she was

5:32

going to be Donald Trump's vice presidential

5:34

pick. It was absolutely clear to her.

5:37

So therefore she's unleashed. She's unleashed. And

5:39

she made a very big point in that

5:41

speech of saying, I don't

5:44

care what Donald Trump has got to throw

5:46

at me. I'm staying in

5:48

the race. You can throw all the

5:50

abuse you like. Of

5:52

course, many of the same politicians who

5:55

now publicly embrace Trump privately

5:57

dread him. They

6:00

know what a disaster he's been and

6:02

will continue to be for our party. They're

6:06

just too afraid to say it

6:08

out loud. Well,

6:10

I'm not afraid to say the hard

6:12

truth out loud. I

6:14

feel no need to kiss the ring. I

6:24

have no fear of Trump's retribution.

6:28

I'm not... I'm

6:35

not looking for anything from him. My

6:38

own political future is of

6:40

zero concern. So here we have this

6:43

sort of new, bright, sparkly,

6:45

unleashed Nikki Haley. I think a lot

6:47

of people in her party might be

6:49

thinking, where was that

6:51

voice six months ago? Why didn't you start

6:53

off the race like that? Because if there's

6:55

one thing we know about Nikki Haley, it's

6:58

that she's kind of found her backbone quite

7:00

late in this race. She was the one

7:02

who tried to stay on side with Trump

7:04

when she was his ambassador for the UN, and

7:08

then she sort of didn't quite criticise him, and then she did criticise him. And

7:11

you had to kind of wiggle your way

7:13

between the path of what Nikki

7:15

Haley was saying and what she

7:17

was actually thinking to work out

7:19

where her position was. Strategic, yes,

7:21

but not particularly courageous. Where

7:23

you're right about it being strategic is that

7:26

she was in the early stages thinking, how

7:28

can I peel off the MAGA vote to

7:30

come over to me, and therefore you don't

7:33

abuse Donald Trump, you flatter him and just

7:35

say he's the wrong person. I mean, even

7:37

last week, actually, she was saying that she

7:39

would find it in her heart to forgive

7:41

him if he was convicted. So I

7:43

think there was still a little bit of, dare

7:46

I say, the shivers looking for a spine to crawl

7:48

up, my favourite phrase ever. But yes,

7:50

she's certainly sounding braver than she did.

7:52

And I think has just made the

7:54

calculation I am now Donald Trump's opponent.

7:57

We're not colleagues, I am opposing

7:59

him. And she's found her voice

8:02

and I think she's much clearer in her

8:04

messaging now than she was as you say

8:06

Maybe if she'd done this three months ago

8:08

But Chris Christie was swimming in that lane

8:11

And so she's now taken up the position of

8:13

the voice of opposition to Donald Trump financially I

8:15

think there is also an important point which is

8:18

that if she pulls out of the race Then

8:21

immediately the RNC the Republican

8:23

National Committee start working hand

8:25

in glove with Donald Trump

8:27

So all the money basically

8:29

goes towards him his campaign

8:31

in brackets his legal bills perhaps

8:33

That's what she thinks are they gonna

8:35

start paying down half a billion dollars

8:37

in what he owes the courts now

8:39

So as long as she is in

8:41

the race They have to be or

8:44

they are meant to be Even-handed with

8:46

the candidates and he can't just suck

8:48

all the money out of that national

8:50

body and you can be sure That

8:53

Trump is seizing. Yeah, I'm furious because that's

8:55

what he wants He wants the money give

8:57

me the money and it's not going to

8:59

happen all the time that Haley is there

9:02

because the RNC have got To say we're

9:04

even-handed. We don't have a dog in the

9:06

fight but you call him Trump, but Trump

9:08

calls himself the Navalny of America

9:12

and it's not funny really. I mean,

9:14

it's deeply not funny But he has

9:16

been painting a picture of

9:18

political persecution You

9:20

think he's talking about Putin's latest

9:23

victim Alexei Navalny, but no Donald

9:25

Trump is talking about Donald Trump

9:29

During this campaign a huge amount of your

9:32

time has been spent in court in the

9:34

courtroom in New York and so forth now

9:36

in This New York Civil Fraud case this

9:38

judge Arthur Angaron ruled against you for almost

9:42

a half a billion dollars

9:45

plus interest that Runs

9:47

every day when I first read this like eighty seven

9:49

thousand dollars a day How

9:51

will you put up that kind of money because you have a

9:54

bond to put up even if you appeal you got to put

9:56

up escrow money, that's It's

9:59

a lot of It is the form of Navalny,

10:02

it is a form of communism

10:05

or fascism. The

10:07

guys are nut-yup. I've known this for

10:09

a long time and I've said it openly. So

10:12

yeah, it's a form of Navalny. And

10:15

Donald Trump did post on Truth

10:17

Social about the death of Alexei

10:20

Navalny. And it just, obviously,

10:22

as you were saying, Emily, it made me

10:24

think of myself. I am the

10:26

great stuffer. I took two minutes to think

10:28

about a murdered Russian political prisoner and then

10:30

I suddenly realised who it reminded me of,

10:33

myself. Because the system in America is

10:35

there to kill me, it's there to

10:37

slay me, it's there to abuse me,

10:39

it's there to stop me. And

10:41

I think that it is the most

10:44

remarkable thing that Donald Trump is able

10:46

to post a tweet about Alexei Navalny

10:49

and one, make it about himself and

10:52

two, not mention Vladimir

10:54

Putin anywhere. Extraordinary.

10:57

Yeah. And I think it

10:59

goes back to the circle that

11:01

you can't square. And

11:03

it is all the world leaders

11:06

who are talking in the most horrified

11:09

terms about Putin,

11:11

particularly this week. I mean,

11:13

second anniversary of the Ukraine

11:15

war and the death of

11:17

his most outspoken political opponent

11:20

and yet still sort of heralding in

11:22

a new Trump era. And

11:24

you cannot actually do both. You

11:26

cannot hold both those thoughts in

11:29

your hand at the same time, which is that, oh,

11:32

well, Trump might be quite good for America and it might be

11:34

quite good for Britain and it might be quite good for the

11:36

world. And he does what

11:38

he says and blah, blah, blah, blah,

11:40

blah. But we don't like Putin because

11:43

they're pretty much handing gloves. Whatever Putin

11:45

says about preferring Biden. I

11:47

think we're going to take that one with a Pinterest. Yes. Whatever

11:50

was anything more obvious than

11:52

that statement as a piece of kind of misleading

11:54

look the other way because there

11:57

is no way, no way

11:59

that Vladimir Putin. wants Joe Biden but

12:01

of course it would be damaging to Donald Trump

12:03

if Putin came out and said yeah I want

12:05

Donald Trump as the next president and all I

12:07

would just add as a kind of footnote

12:10

postscript to this is show

12:13

me a single quote anywhere

12:15

where Donald Trump has been critical

12:17

of Vladimir Putin. If you want

12:19

to find quotes about him and Angela Merkel being

12:21

critical? Easy. Crudo? Easy.

12:24

Macro? Easy. Theresa May?

12:26

Easy. Vladimir Putin?

12:29

Not so much. We'll be back in a moment

12:31

with Bernie Sanders. The

12:34

News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis

12:37

and John Sople. The

12:41

News Agents USA. Bernie

12:44

Sanders in your book it's

12:46

okay to be angry about capitalism. The central thesis

12:48

and I'm going to say really

12:50

the incontrovertible thesis is that

12:53

economic rights are human

12:55

rights. That you say

12:57

without economic security you

12:59

essentially have no freedom. In the

13:01

extreme case if you're sleeping out

13:03

on the streets in New York City are you free? In

13:06

my country being the only major country on earth

13:08

that doesn't guarantee health care to all people you

13:11

have millions of people who hesitate to go to

13:13

the doctor when they're sick are

13:16

you free? If you are a worker and

13:18

you're making starvation wages and you have to go

13:20

to work to feed your family is that freedom?

13:23

So I think we want to redefine what freedom is

13:25

and in my view this is the

13:28

year 2024 we're not in the 16th

13:30

century we have extraordinary

13:32

wealth and technology in this world

13:35

and our vision has got to be to

13:37

create a world in which all people have

13:39

a decent standard of living. That is not

13:41

utopian dreaming that can in fact happen but

13:43

to make it happen you have to take

13:46

on the greed and the power of oligarchs

13:49

who really want it all. They have today the

13:51

top 1% owns more wealth in the

13:53

bottom 99%. I want to come back to your

13:55

comment about health care because it seems I mean

13:57

the person that you make central to this is

14:00

FDR, Roosevelt, and his speech in 1944.

14:04

And I guess he could have

14:06

changed America by making the state

14:09

more central to people's lives at that point. We

14:11

had Beveridge two years earlier who

14:13

made exactly the same argument, but

14:15

actually that did get introduced. You

14:17

know, when Atlee came to power, you got

14:20

the health system, you got housing. I want

14:22

to say this, you know, as an American,

14:24

and I don't claim to be terribly knowledgeable

14:26

about the UK or your history. I

14:29

cried. There was a BBC film

14:31

on the creation of the national health

14:33

system. And one of the clips

14:35

is that I've been saying that on a certain date, I think

14:38

it was in 1948, every

14:40

person in this country will be able to go to a doctor and

14:42

not worry about the cost. Do you know

14:44

how revolutionary that is? It's

14:47

extraordinary. What a burden it took off

14:49

the people. This country should be very

14:51

proud of them. Yeah. Why do you think

14:53

that America moved in such a different way then? That's

14:56

a good question. I know all the answers,

14:58

but I will tell you, you know, we

15:00

don't have and never had quite

15:02

the equivalent of a Labour Party of 1945.

15:05

See, I had a Democratic

15:07

Party, which increasingly over the years

15:09

has become more conservative, more

15:12

corporate dominated. So to answer

15:14

your question, we have a very powerful

15:17

ruling class in America. We

15:19

have the insurance industry and the drug companies

15:22

who like the system as it is right

15:24

now. They make huge amounts of money. They're

15:26

going to give that up easily. You

15:28

have more inequality, income inequality than

15:30

ever before. And you

15:33

talk about America's oligarchs. I mean,

15:36

that's quite a punchy phrase, but

15:38

you cite America's richest families, richest

15:40

men, Jeff Bezos, chief

15:42

amongst them. What

15:44

would happen to corporations? What

15:46

would happen, let's say to Amazon, if

15:49

Bernie Sanders was president? Would Amazon

15:51

exist? I think that they

15:54

are too much of a monopoly force right

15:56

now. And one of the problems we've had

15:58

over the last many, many, many decades. is

16:01

that we allowed huge concentration of

16:03

ownership in industry after industry. The

16:06

way we phrase it in the United States is

16:09

the need for strong antitrust legislation

16:11

to start breaking up these monolithic

16:13

and very powerful corporations. So

16:15

Amazon wouldn't exist? Not in its current form, no

16:17

it would not. I mean, is there a current

16:19

form in which Amazon could exist? Sure it could.

16:21

I mean, it could play a role as a

16:23

business. But it can't, what you are

16:25

seeing right now, you know, it's

16:27

one thing to talk about income and wealth

16:29

inequality. People understand that. But there's another reality.

16:32

And that is in sector after sector

16:34

of the American economy, you have three

16:36

or four corporations that dominate what goes

16:39

on there. And they can control prices

16:41

and many other policies. That

16:43

has got to be broken up to create a

16:46

more diversified economy. So just show

16:48

me that vision then. There isn't an Amazon, as

16:50

we'd recognize it today. There isn't

16:53

presumably a meta, Facebook, a Google.

16:55

I mean... I can't give you

16:57

the blueprint for the future. But I think

17:00

what you want is not having a

17:02

handful of major corporations dominating

17:05

sector after sector. How big is major?

17:08

Like how big does it have to be to be

17:10

monopoly? Well, when you're... Well, as I

17:12

just mentioned, you have in sector

17:15

after sector, you have three... Here's an

17:17

example. You want an example? Right

17:20

now we have three investment firms

17:22

on Wall Street. BlackRock, you're familiar with

17:24

BlackRock? Yes. BlackRock, State Street

17:26

and Vanguard. Together, those

17:29

three companies control over

17:32

$20 trillion in assets. Together,

17:34

they are the major stockholders in

17:36

95% of S&P corporations. So

17:40

how many... If you take the $23

17:42

trillion, how many companies... I can't

17:44

give you... Look, what sounds

17:46

reasonable? The three companies... No, I'm saying how

17:48

many companies would you want to see? I

17:50

can look. I'm not here to... What sounds

17:52

reasonable? I don't know. So when

17:54

you have three companies being the major stockholders in

17:56

95% of the corporations, that

17:59

is enormous power. that rests in

18:01

the hands of a few people. That

18:03

is unacceptable. You've talked about American oligarchs

18:05

playing a perverse and destructive role in

18:08

shaping our society. Do you

18:10

think the US has a

18:13

functioning democracy? Good question.

18:15

I guess we'd have to define

18:18

what functioning means. Are we going to have

18:20

an election in November? Yeah, we're going

18:22

to have an election. That's for sure.

18:24

Do you think the corporate power, the

18:27

power they wield, is

18:29

interfering with American democracy? Oh, well,

18:31

that's a given. That's obvious. So

18:33

it's not functioning? No,

18:36

I mean, it's functioning. They

18:38

dominate what goes on. It doesn't mean to say

18:40

it doesn't function. I got elected. Other progressives get

18:43

elected. But what you have, and

18:45

I need a second to explain this, because I think many

18:47

people in the UK may not be familiar with the American

18:49

political system, right

18:51

now, because of a decision called Citizens

18:53

United, pushed by a right-wing Supreme Court,

18:56

if you are a billionaire, you can

18:58

set up a super PAC, which is called the

19:01

Super Political Action Committee. You

19:03

can put into that super PAC

19:06

unlimited hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars.

19:08

You got it? So you've got an organization

19:10

now with hundreds of millions of dollars, and

19:12

with that money, you can put ads on

19:14

television, the radio, newspapers, or whatever. You

19:16

can do whatever you want to defeat

19:18

people you don't like or support people you

19:20

like. Now, is that a functional democracy? Does

19:23

that mean when you and I talk about

19:25

democracy, we think one person, one vote, right?

19:28

Well, yeah, you've got one person, one vote, but

19:30

you have these very, very

19:32

wealthy oligarchs who are

19:34

able to have huge influence over the political

19:36

process. And if you

19:38

stand up to them, you get punished, right? So

19:40

if you're going to stand up to the pharmaceutical

19:43

industry, they will run ads against you. Now,

19:45

you can help me define whether that's a

19:47

functional democracy or not, but at least an

19:50

impaired democracy. Well, I guess I'm going to funnel it down

19:52

and say it's not just the PACs or the super PACs. It's

19:55

campaign financing itself. Now, you've talked very

19:57

proudly of your average, I think, 27. $7

20:01

donation. But the overall

20:03

amount of money spent, I mean honestly

20:05

to the European voter, to the British voter, it

20:08

is insane. I mean, you

20:10

I think spent what, north of 100 million?

20:13

I think maybe 200 million. 200 million? Barack

20:16

Obama spent a billion, right? The first

20:19

presidential candidate spent... I

20:22

don't know where to start. Why would you

20:24

waste 200 million dollars on

20:27

a campaign? Because if you want to

20:29

win the election, if you don't do that, you're going

20:31

to get outspent 10 to 1. Your presence

20:33

is never going to be on television. You're not going to

20:35

be able to organize. But if your question is, let's back

20:37

it up. Do you know, literally the

20:39

day after an election, people are talking about

20:41

the next election. In most countries, you

20:44

help me out here, in the UK, the

20:46

prime minister, there will be an election what, in

20:48

three months usually? In our elections

20:50

ever end. I mean literally the day

20:52

after an election, they started this presidential election

20:54

a year ago talking about it. And people are

20:56

putting ads on. So A, it's a never ending

20:58

thing. B, the

21:01

culture of America now is money talks.

21:04

So if I'm running against you and I have 10 times more

21:06

money than you, I'll beat you 99%. But when you

21:09

look at the money involved, when you look at

21:11

what you could be spending that on, was

21:13

200 million dollars worth it? Worth it?

21:15

Yeah. To get elected president of the United States? Yeah.

21:17

Running against people who are spending more money? Yeah. All

21:20

right. If you're saying, is that crazy? It

21:22

is. If you're saying,

21:24

should we have campaign finance reform,

21:26

which limits the amount of

21:28

money candidates should be spending? Yes,

21:31

I agree. And if you're saying

21:33

that should be publicly funded rather

21:35

than corporately funded, I agree as

21:37

well. A system is broken.

21:39

It is corrupt. Period. But once you

21:41

jump into it, if you want to

21:43

be a player, you've got to participate.

21:45

You're very critical in this book of

21:47

the corporate media, the media, essentially. You

21:50

cite the Washington Post, I think 16

21:52

pieces about you, you would say in 24 hours. Yeah.

21:54

Do you think

21:59

the media's stopped you being president? No.

22:03

I think, look, it played a role, but

22:05

it was just one role. What

22:07

we tried to do and are trying to

22:09

do right now in a dozen different ways,

22:12

if we're taking on the establishment, what does

22:14

that mean? We're taking on right-wing

22:16

Republicans, we're taking on the Democratic

22:18

establishment, we're taking on the corporate

22:20

media, taking on the corporate world

22:23

and supporting unions who are trying to

22:26

organize. That's a lot. So

22:28

when you take on the entire establishment, we

22:30

tried to do. But you like being on the outside, right?

22:32

I mean, that is the question of like or not like.

22:35

It is the reality of what you have to do right now.

22:38

We need a political revolution in the United States.

22:40

I expect you need it here in the UK

22:42

as well. So how do you bring that about?

22:44

That's what, you know, we work on. In the

22:46

last month, I think, Trump has wound up with

22:48

a, what, a half a billion dollar

22:51

debt. Nikki Haley says he's

22:53

going to make the RNC pay

22:55

for that. Is she right? Can the

22:57

Republican National Committee pay his debts? Who

22:59

knows? Is that how it works? No,

23:01

I mean, it's not supposed to. Obviously

23:03

not. You don't have a political organization

23:05

pay your personal debt. But Trump is

23:07

Trump and who knows? Trump

23:09

is Trump. Doesn't even start to cover it,

23:12

right? You say in your book, the

23:14

average Trump voter, some

23:16

are racist and sexist who vote

23:19

for bigotry. Absolutely. But many

23:21

are not. And you describe Trump as the

23:23

man who's filled the political vacuum, tapped

23:25

into economic anger as a champion of

23:27

the working class, which you say is beyond

23:30

pathetic. Given everything

23:32

we've seen an election denier, man found

23:34

liable in a court of rape,

23:36

a $500 million debt, a love of

23:39

and for Putin. Can

23:41

you try and explain to the UK

23:45

why so much of America appears

23:48

prepared to vote? Because we've

23:50

done the economic disenfranchisement thing

23:52

before, haven't we? I mean, haven't we

23:54

already disproved that he's going to solve

23:57

that problem? Well, you may have.

24:00

But here's a personal question. It's a good

24:02

question. I don't know that I can give you a thorough

24:04

answer. I'll do my best here, which will be

24:07

incomplete. I think the

24:09

rise of Trumpism, and by the way, you

24:11

know, Trump is not unique. We have Trumps in

24:14

Europe and we have Trumps all over the world. I

24:17

think it has a lot to do with

24:19

the failure of the

24:22

establishment politics to respond to

24:24

the crises facing ordinary

24:26

people. All right. Example, one example. In

24:31

the last 50 years, we have seen

24:33

an explosion in technology and worker productivity,

24:35

correct? We didn't have this

24:37

equipment 50 years ago that we're

24:39

sitting in the studio with. Do

24:42

you know that the real inflation accounted

24:44

for wages of the average

24:46

American worker is lower today than it was 50 years

24:48

ago? Okay. And people

24:52

my age worry that their

24:54

kids will have a lower standard of living than they

24:56

do. So if you are

24:58

a worker going nowhere in a

25:00

hurry, worried that your kid is going to be worse

25:02

off, can't afford healthcare,

25:04

can't afford to send your kids to college, maybe

25:06

earlier in your life, you fear your job, go

25:09

to China or to Mexico. Do

25:11

you have confidence in the political process? So

25:13

somebody gets up on television, vote for me. Really?

25:17

And Trump comes along and says, it's all bullshit.

25:20

They're all phonies. I am going to solve

25:22

your problem. Bernie, I've honestly heard that argument

25:24

for the last eight years. And

25:27

I would remind you that

25:29

in 1991 Newsweek was writing

25:32

pieces about the economic disenfranchisement

25:34

of the working class

25:36

people left behind in Louisiana to explain

25:39

the election victory of David Duke,

25:41

who's the grand wizard of the

25:43

coup-clin. So don't

25:45

you think we have to stop talking

25:48

about whether, you know, he is perceived as

25:50

the savior of, you know,

25:52

the working class white left behind and start saying maybe

25:55

his racism is really appealing

25:57

to a lot of people in America.

26:00

Sure. But what is the appeal

26:02

to racism? What it is about is,

26:04

look, if you are struggling economically, you

26:06

want an explanation, right? Why am

26:08

I falling behind? Why am I kids going to do worse than me? And

26:12

Trump offers an explanation. It

26:14

is immigrants. That's the common one all over the

26:16

world. They're taking your jobs. They're

26:18

doing all this. It is blacks. And

26:21

by the way, the LGBT community is

26:23

invading your schools, making all of your

26:25

kids gay and transgender and so

26:27

forth and so on. The trick is people

26:30

want an explanation as to why

26:32

their lives in the United States

26:34

life expectancy is going down. Do

26:37

you know that? Actually going down. And

26:39

that has a lot to do with drug overdoses, suicide

26:42

and other forms of addiction. People

26:44

are hurting. They want an explanation. They're not going

26:47

to turn on the television and get an explanation.

26:49

They're not going to hear, oh, by the way,

26:52

today this company shifted your job some place, so

26:54

the CEO makes 350 times what you're making. So

26:57

to answer your question, I think racism and sexism,

27:00

that's the explanation that the Trumps of the

27:03

world give to explain to people why

27:05

they are hurting. If you're a man and suddenly

27:07

you have a woman who's your boss, oh

27:09

my God, women are taking over the world. You

27:12

know what I mean? Sure. But in

27:14

a functioning party, let's say, somebody would say, let's

27:16

call this out. What is the Republican Party in

27:18

America scared of now? Why did two-thirds fail

27:20

to certify Joe Biden as the president

27:23

in 2021? You

27:25

know, we talk about the cult of Trump and that's kind

27:27

of well-determined. Don't dismiss this. You think we talk

27:29

about it is a cult. We

27:32

talk about it and it is. So what happens

27:34

is you had the traditional Republican

27:36

Party of George W. Bush. This

27:39

is the usual ruling class, conservative money and interest

27:41

around the party. Okay. And

27:44

that's what always was the case. And Trump comes

27:46

along and says, you don't need these elitists. They

27:48

are elitists. Sure. Okay.

27:50

Vote for me. He has transformed the

27:52

party. Senators in his

27:54

party not to back a border

27:56

bill that would stop illegal immigration.

27:58

I'm even convinced. That's the wrong

28:01

word. He is intimidated. That's a better

28:03

word. So in other words in American

28:05

politics, there are primaries We you know,

28:07

yeah, I go back to my question.

28:09

What is the party so scared of? so

28:12

if you are a Republican

28:15

and you think Joe Biden won the election and You're

28:18

being bombarded back home by Trump supporters

28:21

who say if you vote for to

28:23

certify Biden. We're getting rid of you

28:25

That's what's not an intellectual game. They're gonna

28:28

say I'd like my job. Enjoy being a

28:30

senator here I'm gonna

28:32

vote the other way now some of them actually

28:34

believe it but intimidation is an important factor That

28:36

doesn't suggest much moral fiber to me Yeah,

28:41

are you shocked by this? Well,

28:43

I'm wondering Why an entire

28:46

party can be held hostage. Yes, I suppose

28:48

I am shocked Would

28:50

suggest not to be shocked, you know

28:52

you I mean you had to make a

28:54

choice last week on the Ukraine

28:56

funding bill You refused

28:59

the aid to Netanyahu Israel

29:02

you voted no to the bill of 14 billion

29:04

dollars of aid there Which

29:07

denied Ukraine of sixty point

29:09

one billion dollars? There

29:11

are young men fighting for

29:14

their country in the

29:16

trenches in Ukraine Who are

29:18

literally listening on their phones to

29:20

the wrangling in the Senate from people who

29:22

don't think Ukraine is worth it What's

29:25

your message to them? I think Ukraine is

29:27

worth it and I strongly support defending you

29:29

didn't in the vote Welcome

29:32

to my world, you know, it's easy to sit where you're

29:34

sitting in my world. I had to make a choice

29:37

I support Ukraine and strongly

29:39

condemn what Putin is doing and Want

29:42

to see the Ukrainian people have the tools to

29:44

resist that but in that same

29:46

bill It was 14 billion

29:49

including 10 billion dollars to give

29:51

to net meows right-wing extremist government

29:53

to slaughter women and children

29:55

in In Palestine

29:58

in Gaza, so you You may think that's an

30:00

easy choice. I don't think it's an

30:03

easy choice. And I chose, along with some

30:05

others, to make

30:07

it clear that the

30:09

United States government should not be

30:11

complicit in the slaughter of

30:13

women and children in Gaza. I get it. But

30:16

the aid bill to Ukraine was

30:18

four times the size. Isn't

30:21

that your priority right now? No, I

30:23

mean, you know, look, it is a priority of mine. But

30:26

I say to you, are you not concerned

30:28

about the slaughter of women and children in

30:31

Gaza? Should I condemn you for that?

30:33

You want to really vote to give a right

30:35

wing extreme as government more money to slaughter more

30:37

people there to have the United States

30:39

complicit in that slaughter? I don't

30:41

think you do. Those are the, look, you can

30:44

argue with me. Yeah. Those are

30:46

the difficult choices. But there will be Republicans, there are Republicans,

30:48

who are saying, you see, even Bernie Sanders is sort of

30:50

like... No, no, no, no, no, no, they're

30:52

not the same. Actually, that's not the case. In

30:54

my case, I've made it clear 100 times, and I'll

30:56

say it 101 times, given the opportunity I have and

30:59

will vote to support the people of

31:01

Ukraine. So do you think Joe Biden

31:03

is complicit in what

31:05

is happening in Palestine? Well, if you're going

31:07

to give a right wing Israeli government, such

31:09

as Joe Biden, it's the American government. We

31:11

give Israel three and a half billion every

31:13

year. And there is another

31:15

$10 billion right now that was in

31:17

that bill to be given the Netanyahu

31:20

for unlimited military utilization. Okay. So you

31:22

called him complicit in carnage in Gaza.

31:24

There are young people all over America who

31:26

will hear you saying that, their hero, Bernie. Great.

31:30

Joe Biden's complicit in carnage in Gaza. We're

31:32

going to stay home. Or worse, well, we might

31:34

as well vote for Trump. No.

31:37

Welcome to my world. Well, that will be on you. Really?

31:40

On me? Well, yeah. You're saying he is complicit in carnage

31:42

in Gaza. No, I'm saying it's the United States. I have to hold it.

31:45

It's not just Joe Biden. You

31:47

know, overwhelming members of people in Congress voted

31:49

for that. It's the United States. And I'm

31:51

trying to turn that around.

31:55

And I think what the young people and people

31:57

in general appreciate is honesty,

31:59

trying to honestly get to

32:02

understanding what the hell is going on.

32:04

The United States should not be supporting

32:06

Netanyahu. That is how young people feel.

32:09

Now because I say that,

32:11

Joe Biden and I have worked

32:13

together on many issues. We disagree strongly

32:16

on Gaza. I am going to

32:18

campaign as I get back. I'll be

32:20

campaigning working to defeat

32:22

Trump and to elect Biden. But

32:24

life is a little bit more complicated

32:26

than you're implying, at least in my world.

32:29

Let's stay with honesty. Special counsel Robert Herr

32:32

called Joe Biden a well-meaning elderly man with

32:34

memory issues. Now it seems that Democrats can't

32:36

quite decide whether they want to attack her

32:38

for being political or defend

32:40

their elderly president or quietly

32:43

work out what happens next.

32:45

Is Biden too old? No,

32:48

I think when you look at Biden or anybody else,

32:50

look at you, look at me. You

32:53

look at the totality of the

32:55

person. I ran against Joe

32:57

Biden so I'm not here to tell you that I

32:59

agree with everything that Joe Biden has done or is

33:01

doing. Certainly Gaza is one area. We

33:03

strongly disagree. But Biden

33:06

has done a number of very very

33:08

good things and I think he has been a

33:11

good president. I think he needs to be reelected.

33:16

Does it matter that he's mixing up dead presidents,

33:19

French presidents with living ones over

33:21

and over again? Does it matter that he's

33:24

going out there and making a lot of

33:26

mistakes? Trump has confused Nikki Haley with Nancy

33:28

Pelosi I think. Does that matter as well?

33:30

Yes. The

33:33

world is what it is. Well

33:36

is it what it is? I guess that's what I'm asking. Would

33:38

you be standing again if you were

33:40

Joe Biden in his position? That's Joe

33:42

Biden's decision and he is the president and

33:44

he will be the nominee I expect. What

33:47

I am very nervous about is the

33:49

possibility of a Trump victory which is

33:51

possible. And the reason

33:53

I'm nervous is for all the

33:55

reasons we've talked about plus the fact that as

33:57

it happens Trump does not believe in the much.

34:00

I happen to believe strongly in democracy and

34:02

if Trump gets elected He

34:05

will be supporting right-wing governments and movements

34:07

all over the world Should somebody close

34:09

to Biden be telling him not to

34:12

stand is it possible to change the

34:14

ticket if Biden himself? Theoretically it is

34:16

Possible, but I don't think that that's going to

34:19

happen Ezra Klein said this week Denying

34:23

decline Look,

34:27

I think Biden has been a

34:29

good president and I think he

34:31

will be a good president for the next four years You

34:33

say good, but you don't say excellent. You don't

34:35

say super nice. I don't know

34:37

I'm just telling you that I have strong disagreements with

34:40

him on a major issue. I think he's dead wrong

34:42

on Tossum, I think he

34:44

has been wrong on a number of other issues

34:47

But that does not mean to say That

34:50

he has not been a good president. Do I have

34:52

disagreements with him? I surely do What happens if Biden

34:54

doesn't win in November? What does America look like if

34:57

Trump wins? He will be

34:59

the leader not only of America, but of

35:01

right-wing extremism all over the world He

35:04

will encourage right-wing movements. He will support

35:06

right-wing governments and it may well be

35:08

you know modern I'm not a great historian

35:10

here, but I think modern democracy

35:12

maybe began with the American Revolution

35:15

and that may be a 250-year period coming

35:17

to an end where the world moves toward

35:20

Autocracy and decline of democracy you think this

35:23

is the beginning of the end of democracy

35:25

don't with words quite in my mouth I

35:27

must be what I'm suggesting is if the

35:29

most powerful nation on earth Alexei

35:32

right-wing extremist who is prepared

35:34

to work me work with Bolsonaro in Brazil

35:36

Bob-barn in Hungary. I'm that's what he does

35:39

and it's what if people do it

35:41

will be a Satalist

35:43

it will be a major setback to democracy

35:45

and the movement. I think the worldwide autocracy

35:47

So every country on earth should be worried

35:49

about and if Biden does win Do you

35:52

think there's any indication that Trump would accept

35:54

the result this time around? Do you feel as a

35:57

As a senator? You Know you have to. The

36:00

ready. Gonna get mono before

36:02

the election. For six months before the

36:04

election last time I was getting a

36:06

major speech thing. we better worry about

36:08

this. I turned out to be right.

36:11

I was at the capitol on January

36:13

sixth and. Saw.

36:15

A Front Trump's attempt to deny Pagan

36:17

the insurrection and Trump's attempt to deny

36:20

Biden the Presidency. Sergeant answer your question,

36:22

but we will do a lot of

36:24

luminary work. The mic shows that victor

36:27

of that election get seated at his

36:29

illness. Thank you! So much like to.

36:32

The News Agency Usa with Emily

36:34

Majors and John Sopo. The

36:39

News Agency Usa. Well.

36:45

Done is back and I'm so

36:47

excited disease get it's helped me

36:49

about smells yes Georgia Butcher topic.

36:51

oh no and no I did

36:53

I the topic I would smell

36:55

of on the I see okay

36:57

very house I can walk with.

36:59

Go! Talk about Smirnoff because if

37:01

you remember there is this whole

37:03

thing that has gone on for

37:05

ages about Hunter Biden and Bruce

37:08

Smith and the corrupt. Payments.

37:11

That were being made to Joe Biden.

37:14

Two. Hunter Biden on. We used to

37:16

get a lot of a dissident about

37:18

you. I got tons of these while

37:20

covering this more was doing it at

37:23

it. turns out that the F B

37:25

I had an informant who was a

37:27

Russian who was telling them all this

37:30

stuff. The Republican Party ticket absolutely obsessed.

37:32

Value Another: ask another question about it.

37:35

Except the Alexander

37:37

Smirnoff. Deposited. Who

37:39

was telling it? Was. Having a

37:41

cock and bull story it was bullshit and

37:44

he has now been charged. By.

37:46

the f b i or happened last

37:48

week so obviously upset the republicans because

37:50

they thought that that data through the

37:52

heart of joe biden have been taken

37:54

through his son went through his son

37:56

the dagger day through on to bite

37:58

is hop federal of getting jobs had

38:00

gone. It turns out to be

38:02

even worse than that because

38:05

it's emerged that Alexander Smirnov

38:08

was being fed this information by

38:10

Russian agents. And Russian agents

38:12

were trying to get to Biden that

38:15

way. And so again, when

38:18

we were talking a few minutes ago about who

38:20

would you like? Who would you like

38:23

as your next president? Vladimir Putin says,

38:25

Oh, I'd like Biden. Then why were

38:27

you trying to destroy him with your

38:29

agents? It again shows Russian interference. It

38:32

again shows something that the Republicans

38:35

accused the Democrats of. The

38:37

Democrats were accused of just buying hook, line

38:39

and sinker. The dossier of

38:41

Christopher Steele and saying it was all

38:43

bullshit, it was all made up, it

38:46

was all a load of nonsense. The

38:48

Republican party was so thrilled to hear

38:50

anything. They never stopped to ask a

38:52

critical question about the evidence against Hunter

38:54

Biden and where it had come from.

38:57

So will we hear about

38:59

Hunter Biden and his

39:01

impeachment again, or is

39:03

it all just gone absolutely silent? I

39:05

think that has gone away. I think

39:08

the Republican party is much more fixated

39:10

now on Joe Biden's age and whether

39:12

he's fit to be the next president.

39:14

So fit. Yes, we have

39:16

had this whole Hunter Biden circus

39:19

and it turns out to have

39:21

been, to use the technical term,

39:23

a crock of shit. We'll be

39:25

back next week with those riveting results from

39:27

South Carolina and more. And

39:29

you can always find us on Global

39:31

Player News Agency. USA is there for

39:34

you. Bye bye.