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this is

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a cbc podcast hi

0:36

listeners david region here

0:38

after long hiatus someone know something

0:40

is back with a story i've spent

0:42

the better part of two years working on

0:45

and you're about to hear the first episode

0:47

of season seven thanks

0:50

and enjoy

0:52

the following episode contains mature

0:54

subject matter please take

0:56

care

1:00

the shot killed at home and can't explain

1:02

to children but

1:05

total enough of your

1:11

many gotta

1:15

pay what happens

1:17

other thing or of each other does remind you of what's

1:19

missing

1:22

i'm on the phone with amanda rod

1:24

her uncle doctor burnett's lucky in

1:26

whom she calls her uncle bars was

1:29

murdered in october of ninety ninety eight

1:32

hi dad died when i was for and

1:34

my mom was pregnant

1:40

many many years so i

1:42

read closer to him and maybe

1:44

a normal nice would be to

1:47

for uncle anyway

1:49

a way i got were care less just

1:52

gonna figure out why

1:57

i remember when amanda's uncle bart was killed

2:00

i was living in toronto at time not

2:02

far away from the suburban emperor's

2:04

new york where he lives the

2:06

been shot dead through his kitchen window

2:08

while making soup single

2:11

shot but it was one that was reported

2:13

around world because doctors

2:15

slept in was a gynecologist to deliver

2:17

babies he also

2:19

provided abortions

2:25

play most of our cell provider

2:27

of his generation him or

2:30

way before we can qualify as that was

2:35

by law that's

2:38

right and you

2:42

know about established that

2:44

established that short circuit of guy right

2:47

after coming home from synagogue services

2:51

get off work at clinic and morning

2:55

fab

3:03

right now and united states there's a resurgence

3:05

of abortion rights discussing them poker

3:13

court challenges at the state

3:15

and supreme court level are ongoing

3:18

and final rulings will soon be

3:20

made

3:21

monumental cases like row vs

3:23

wade of protect the right to abortion

3:25

could be weekend or even overturned

3:28

i , friends who die from from

3:33

issues have kind of residents and rest

3:35

of world legal and moral arguments

3:37

over abortion aren't just an american

3:39

phenomenon i think revisiting

3:42

the violence and actions of the anti abortion

3:44

movement maybe especially important

3:46

given what's going on now in world

3:49

where we been and where we going

3:51

and is accountability important for the

3:53

violence we saw over twenty years

3:55

ago and that something

3:57

may come again

4:02

i'm david written and this is someone know something

4:04

season seven episode one

4:07

aiding abetting abortion

4:19

matter

4:21

david how are you going to look at meeting

4:24

her

4:27

after several phone calls with amanda rob

4:29

i'm meeting her in person and

4:31

investigative journalists from new york

4:34

she's written for rolling stone the

4:36

new york times and gq early

4:38

fifties someone who likes to throw herself

4:40

into difficult situations and then writer

4:42

way out of them she's , fan of

4:44

someone knows something so the seems

4:47

seems already informal like we

4:49

know each other through downloads downloads

4:51

settles onto a coach binders of papers

4:54

on table in front of front she's

4:56

wearing jeans and her blonde hair is held

4:58

back by a pair of reading glasses this

5:01

, the first time amanda has investigated

5:03

tragedy in the ongoing narrative

5:05

of abortion rights in

5:07

fact amanda became journalist

5:09

because of the murder of her uncle dr

5:12

parts latvian

5:15

i know people react to graceland many different

5:17

ways we serve you learn

5:20

in a nm the way i

5:22

reacted was i was gonna figure out why bar

5:24

was godlike powers i don't know

5:26

why that was my thing i wasn't particularly

5:30

angry , your was

5:32

just gonna i was gonna was the

5:34

puzzle i wasn't the

5:36

at the time this stuff like that's

5:39

when i was gonna day and i was my

5:41

bank want

5:43

find out more about uncle bart more

5:46

about the scene at the time and who he

5:48

was you

5:50

know he was not the martin luther king

5:52

of abortion which

5:54

is a very conservative guy who voted

5:57

republican he was religious

6:00

hated feminists subsequent hate hillary

6:02

clinton roots like having

6:05

a weapon his cause

6:09

the even still with abortion being relatively

6:12

small part of his practice

6:14

amanda's uncle became target of antiabortion

6:16

protests and the buffalo area heart

6:19

felt obligated to provide abortions

6:21

because the procedure was becoming

6:23

less and less accessible here's

6:26

bart and the tv interview from the time

6:29

talking about antiabortion protesters

6:32

i'm afraid them and i'm not afraid of the

6:35

of the but i fear for my family

6:37

my children life i think of if

6:40

i wasn't around what they would be go through

6:42

but or soy i'm not afraid of

6:48

built around all his neighbors as

6:51

, that affects her baby killer killer

6:54

like following his kids to school and saying

6:56

why does her daddy kill babies and

6:58

babies wanted posters

7:00

our target mark followers say sir

7:03

you know there are like billboards and said slipping

7:05

tells babies slept in some murderer

7:08

he felt like dr sam katz pick and

7:10

choose what you do like

7:12

a drum up to some gynecologist

7:15

for what you find up for neither

7:18

do i believe

7:19

where's that would make other people go wow

7:22

this is this is pat idea as

7:24

isn't my thing i'm gonna back

7:26

off it's as made him like suck

7:28

you i'm gonna keep doing at like

7:30

you're like a boy me with babies and cetus's

7:35

alarm , hannah perfect over

7:37

the children that set aside you

7:40

say at

7:43

protests like this one in buffalo and

7:45

nineteen ninety two antiabortion

7:47

supporters would not only carry large

7:50

posters with graphic imagery purporting

7:52

to be from abortion procedures but

7:54

would carry display actual

7:57

human fetuses not

7:59

, political

8:00

hi i'm i'm not an issue of

8:02

rice this is not socialist

8:05

said , moving

8:08

kill my wife is doctor

8:11

slept the and eventually try to appeal

8:13

to forces at play austin

8:15

right on as front lawn

8:20

and ninety ninety four he read and op ed

8:22

to the buffalo news and

8:25

sadly this works

8:26

pressing their freedom of expression

8:29

lights when they call me a murder

8:31

and follow my kids to school and may

8:34

threaten me and says i'm everything but don't

8:36

be surprised when one of them are fragile

8:38

minds are like suits are provider

8:42

look for years later as exactly

8:44

what happened

8:47

pick him up fast food like parts

8:49

killer

8:52

after the shooting police soon landed

8:54

on one suspect

8:56

forty four year old anti abortion fanatic

8:58

from california named james

9:01

charles caught or gym

9:03

is amanda calls him i

9:06

would get everything i have like some

9:09

wonder if a person of interest in the same

9:11

the family suspect and like

9:13

like of i kept scrapbook was like almost

9:15

like had crush on and

9:17

then i started late there

9:19

would be an article about him and they will interview somebody

9:21

supranowitz person

9:23

the navigator and

9:26

what are they gonna do like they had this site the

9:29

raf girl

9:31

and the san america

9:33

stands as we have been nice to me

9:36

mmm flying go visit you just

9:38

crazy remember right

9:42

when visited them and interview them or talk

9:44

to them was it like a for you interviewing them

9:46

are you ever been off

9:50

games charles koch childhood doesn't

9:52

seem to give any hint of where he would actually

9:54

go in life according to our research

9:57

and media reports caught had

9:59

lawyer saw there and nurse mother

10:01

who eventually divorce twin

10:03

brother three older sisters california

10:06

sunshine costs was was

10:08

a eagle scout hop

10:11

earned a master's in biology but never

10:13

got job in the field instead

10:15

he went to la brea spiritual

10:17

retreat and switzerland sounded by the

10:19

theologians francis schaefer who

10:22

preached that abortion was abortion form

10:24

of killing hop return

10:26

to the us and opened crisis pregnancy

10:29

center where he tried to aggressively

10:31

convince patience to keep their

10:33

unwanted pregnancies around

10:36

nineteen eighty six cop converted

10:38

to catholicism

10:43

by the end of it around like our

10:47

a crazy person got a guy

10:51

family pulled myself together enough to

10:53

lay stop drinking and so

10:55

late find

10:57

functional outlet for my what

10:59

has become like emma trauma junkie now

11:03

and which which it's not unusual

11:06

and then something about like

11:08

the twenty year anniversary of pirates

11:10

death

11:11

and my aunt has when

11:13

was let me back into her life like

11:16

i don't know i'll send the same like

11:19

okay that

11:21

that you know they're gonna die

11:23

and nobody's getting any younger here

11:26

and it's worth knowing

11:28

how this and and here with the

11:30

players and

11:32

if not for vengeance and

11:35

amanda wrote and published stories

11:37

about family's difficulties moving

11:39

forward and the aftermath of her uncle birds

11:42

murder and , still struggles

11:44

with it as

11:46

think we loved each other and

11:49

the last time we spoke was about three weeks

11:51

before he died

11:58

though with amanda's hurt and of

12:00

that's an ongoing and my interest

12:02

piqued i'm want to revisit

12:04

the slutty and case at the scene

12:06

and buffalo

12:07

how did caught do it and

12:09

was there any evidence of people helping

12:11

him first need

12:14

to meet demand is and it's like

12:16

eons widow then

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12:59

there is a political firestorm

13:02

burning in america we're going to was down

13:04

to the capital the

13:07

flame throwers tells the story

13:09

of the radio broadcasters who started

13:12

that fire and kept it burning

13:14

fear is rush limbaugh broadcasters

13:16

clawed their way from their fringes of american

13:19

politics and on side

13:21

and to the very center of

13:23

power the flame throwers

13:25

available now under cbc listen app

13:27

or wherever you get your podcasts

13:34

the mid august i'm , buffalo

13:37

new york york my way to interview

13:39

lynn slip in barnett's

13:41

libyans widow and

13:45

i'm interested in finding out who's

13:47

more it the shootings none

13:50

of that has ever really made

13:52

it to air

13:54

important to hear the details of the

13:57

shooting from witness no

13:59

matter

14:00

difficult it will be for linda talk

14:02

about this and i'm not sure she has

14:04

spoken about this very much we're

14:06

going to me that hot dog stand apparently

14:10

that arise

14:15

hi i'm david bowie or home and

14:17

me too

14:18

that i'm into what

14:22

exactly is gonna be the outcome

14:24

other

14:26

lim looks far younger than sixty six

14:28

years the

14:29

as shoulder length auburn hair green

14:32

eyes and is wearing medical scrubs she

14:35

still working long hours as a nurse

14:37

and she's agreed to meet me after work one

14:39

day the

14:41

was very kind very compassionate

14:45

he was the typical

14:48

give you a one rose kind of guy that

14:51

, just him he was family oriented

14:53

everything was about the boys boys

14:56

wasn't an activist he didn't go any of the

14:58

protests when he did his job he came

15:00

home none of none

15:02

the other stuff he wasn't

15:04

on t v didn't wanna be on a tv so

15:06

didn't wanna be on the cameras he hated

15:08

all that stuff that isn't graph

15:11

he pulled his own ways shoveled

15:13

his own driveway

15:15

asked len if she

15:17

knows why bart decided to become

15:19

and ob she why an think

15:22

, one of his electives twenty was the resident

15:24

and he liked it and he went into it it

15:27

he always said that as far as

15:29

he abortion aspect of aspect was

15:31

never going take woman and crisis

15:34

and send them to send stranger and

15:36

which do think and was motivated more

15:39

strongly to stand his ground

15:41

because of the forces that gathering

15:44

around absolutely but more

15:46

he did it and more became did

15:48

and harder for patients to

15:50

get the care they needed i think care he

15:52

felt he was kind

15:54

obligated to fulfil that need

15:57

so i asked

15:59

when the protests started around

16:01

their home i can is

16:03

always hear the police with

16:05

com and they would keep him in the street or people

16:08

within us there is buffer zone they

16:10

could only come within a certain number of faith

16:12

of the home but they would be right out

16:14

there all there neighborhood come out

16:17

many agree with on a friday night pretty regular

16:19

basis there there

16:24

in nineteen eighty eight as and sealed with

16:26

antiabortion protesters appeared outside

16:29

their home as part in this family

16:31

opened hanukkah presence and side the

16:33

protesters taunted bars yelling

16:36

that he was a murderer

16:38

dr sloppy and then smashed of and

16:40

windows with baseball bat and was

16:42

later charged with assault

16:44

i didn't feel fearful now my always

16:47

, angry than fearful

16:50

any now i think eddie murphy a focus the

16:53

cannibal more volatile but i

16:56

, they were gonna physically do

16:58

anything but they

17:00

were just obnoxious what

17:03

about bar was he afraid we see it on the front lawn

17:05

try to talk to them or how to do we we always had

17:07

attacked on the always chided to tell him the

17:09

please leave and the place for tom the leave

17:12

and they'd leave and then misses the police love they

17:14

would come back and it was there

17:16

, a hotline that you could call

17:18

and you could find out where they were going that night

17:21

and nine for some time he will come on our

17:23

house

17:26

was there ever any warning every free

17:28

saw that the something like have a

17:30

shot for time ago none

17:33

none i mean there was it's always

17:35

best your head but they were probably starting

17:38

as the quite awhile before it happened

17:41

before whoever death what really gets

17:43

me with my kids and mean

17:46

they must spend sucking i they a new

17:48

we were we were going the night we went out

17:50

a new i'm he came back they must have seen the

17:52

headlights come up they driveway

17:56

well planned out any

17:58

claims that research on fortunate lucky

18:01

shot or whatever want to call it but i

18:03

mean he had high powered scope and everything

18:05

so of it was i would say is good distance

18:07

away we had come back

18:10

from temple services and bar went

18:12

to weren't from soup from soup the microwave and at

18:14

my getting taken suitors

18:16

corporate off with her

18:20

maybe now that upsets her home sad

18:22

see yeah

18:24

they were watch

18:29

they were watching us a

18:31

word men uses throughout her descriptions

18:34

of the events who ,

18:36

they james cop

18:38

and who else

18:47

right now

18:51

the dead and raised here that cop parker

18:54

guess this is how reagan and the woods

18:56

the back backing

19:00

into the very spot that i think james

19:02

car parked and

19:15

this

19:16

must be the party took he

19:18

would walk along here

19:24

have you been back here before

19:28

i'm walking back behind doctor slept in

19:30

former house with amanda to get firsthand

19:33

look at scene amanda

19:35

leads the way but grows more silent

19:38

a dilapidated wouldn't backyard stance

19:40

on my right probably dating from

19:42

the time the shooting runs along

19:44

behind a row of well appointed houses

19:47

, of trees and bushes ahead and

19:49

on the left side the sense would obscure

19:51

any approach we

19:54

stop behind were amanda's uncle used

19:56

to live at to live of larger trees

19:59

with the kitchen view

20:03

and a kitten is there and

20:06

, right where

20:08

the flowers go to where the flowers has

20:10

the flowers others have success

20:16

yeah minutes with i can imagine a more

20:18

clear line of sight to

20:20

kitchen window than this

20:24

according to fbi documents media

20:26

reports and interviews car parked

20:28

his nineteen eighty seven black chevrolet cavalier

20:31

a short distance away at the dead end of street

20:34

walked behind sloppy and house as

20:36

we just have passing through neighbor's

20:39

backyard to the area where

20:41

he set up his russian made rifle in scope

20:43

using a treat steady himself shot

20:46

through the kitchen window was about ninety feet

20:48

away a clear view into

20:50

the lives the family the was shooting was

20:57

after he made his shot he buried his

20:59

rifle close by in rubber

21:01

tube that been prepared ahead of time

21:04

and other items and nearby holes

21:06

that had likely already been pre doug

21:08

and then made his escape a

21:11

, for cops dna was found

21:13

here behind doctors like eons house

21:15

it's the burial the repeat visits

21:17

and the organization of organization all that

21:19

makes me think cop must have had

21:21

someone helping him

21:26

the

21:27

and help the announced that he had it

21:29

so well planned out he had to have somebody

21:31

help them get to neighborhood

21:34

the cop was named material witness

21:37

twelve days after the shooting and

21:39

it was it was piece of information

21:41

logged by a neighbor just over a week

21:43

before the shooting that helped point

21:45

to com the neighbor had

21:47

seen a suspicious shabbily dressed man

21:50

pretending to jog and then getting

21:52

into a black cavalier

21:54

he was so suspicious that she took found

21:56

the plate number and police were able

21:58

to connect car to car

22:02

you ever hear any names coming out about people that

22:04

were helping him or anything like diverse and

22:06

it's a , quiet and

22:08

did you ever questioned yourself why

22:10

i always knew there was more involvement there had

22:12

to be more he couldn't he is not that smart

22:15

f alone alone had nothing

22:17

no creature comforts know comforts i

22:19

mean how does he love how did he survive he added

22:21

an old piece the old car and

22:25

the clothes car his the clothes no

22:27

money i mean somebody

22:30

at the harbor him and feed

22:32

him and

22:34

they're

22:35

here the about a

22:37

, you think it's worthwhile for me to pursue these

22:39

people people i guess

22:41

if i wish i had been asking

22:43

for this for years versus it's

22:46

very hard try to do on your own and also

22:48

hard on your directly involved that

22:51

like my kids were little

22:55

i didn't wanna push too much didn't

22:57

want keep opening alone and

22:59

he'll and move on and

23:02

ideas i didn't though

23:08

james cop was at the extreme end of

23:10

larger antiabortion movements that were

23:12

protesting at clinics around the world

23:14

he began in nineteen eighty four and that

23:17

year alone he was charged with trespassing

23:19

battery and assault with a deadly

23:21

weapon the nineteen eighty six

23:24

cop met randall terry to

23:26

had recently sounded operation rescue

23:29

harry and others thought that the passive

23:31

tactics of some of the existing groups

23:33

on the scene where uses

23:36

here's randall terry speaking at news conference

23:38

in washington d c in nineteen

23:40

ninety one please

23:43

what me and they're gonna

23:46

kill children

23:47

we're not going to give them rest day or

23:49

night until they abandon the

23:51

practice

23:52

operation rescue became most influential

23:55

antiabortion group in the us by

23:57

nineteen eighty eight it's protesters

24:00

would crawl like babies across abortion

24:02

clinic parking or entrance areas in

24:04

order to block the way if

24:06

, rest as many would identify themselves

24:09

only as baby dove here's

24:11

operation rescue in buffalo in nineteen

24:13

ninety two

24:21

pro choice protesters were open

24:23

source too

24:31

flag operation rescue has

24:33

failed and bustle

24:36

other more extreme than militant

24:38

groups such as army of god and slams

24:40

of christ were also formed

24:42

around this time to , a

24:44

sense of the times a supporter of army

24:46

of god called the mad glue are

24:49

put together a manifesto on

24:51

how abortion providers should be

24:53

hurt or disabled from

24:55

how to build bombs to methods for shooting

24:58

methods poisoning them well

25:00

placed loosely within the tenets of

25:02

the christian bible

25:04

james cop advance through these more extremist

25:06

anti abortion ranks quickly and

25:09

the first person listed in the special thanks

25:11

and that manifesto is someone

25:13

named atomic dog the nickname

25:16

that came to be directly associated

25:18

with james cop

25:22

in nineteen ninety in us there

25:24

were sixteen acts of violence that abortion

25:27

clinics in nineteen ninety three

25:29

there were two hundred seventy eight in

25:33

the us the legal right to abortion

25:35

had been protected in law by this time

25:37

for the previous twenty years in

25:39

canada the prohibition against abortion

25:41

was only struck down and nineteen eighty

25:43

eight leaks of us supreme

25:46

court documents indicate that landmark

25:48

decisions on abortion may well

25:50

be overturned and there is sense

25:52

by some americans and canadians

25:55

have a looming react nissen of violence

26:01

at night chains sees everything

26:04

forever

26:06

that any have changed my trajectory

26:08

m them with the stuff that we lost

26:11

was , hard and i'm

26:13

lucky the kids did as well as they didn't

26:18

bird and lynn had four children

26:20

are between age seven and fifteen at

26:22

the time

26:24

and try keep things as normal for them

26:26

so that's hard keep them at

26:28

school keep the myths about keep them

26:31

at baseball keep them at on schedule

26:33

for everything the

26:36

guys ever talk about that particular

26:38

day eg ever again or do you know

26:43

they'd choose not to discuss

26:45

it you know they they reminisce about

26:47

stuff ways to do as a family but now

26:49

that night the sacrament

26:52

neither fifty or grabbing towels

26:54

and you know one calling it didn't know they

26:56

don't want go fit on i would never bring

26:58

it up again

27:01

surrounded i go through that's okay it's

27:03

okay

27:09

after doctor sloppy and shooting cop

27:11

had sled american soil via mexico

27:14

then ireland on to france

27:16

with the help of some of the people i'll be

27:18

looking at but eventually after

27:20

over two years on the lam cops

27:22

interactions with his supporters led

27:25

police to him when

27:27

amanda rob heard the news she began working

27:29

her sources including devoutly

27:31

christian woman named susan susan

27:34

new teams caught

27:38

they they the f b i

27:40

how the from said they have been apprehended

27:43

friend i

27:45

, arranged to speak speak

27:48

season think

27:50

at this point this decide that can write about about

27:53

barack and seven

27:59

have to her with her her say

28:02

, well season said i

28:04

think it's tire gyms them

28:06

granted and , and

28:09

sisters crave other san

28:12

i pay and

28:15

she said whatever jesus

28:18

loves there a thing okay

28:22

that are it isn't

28:23

meet you trust about how will find

28:25

you and , like what is also

28:28

take care of it this , nice

28:30

a trust the calls are really big

28:32

airport

28:34

sydney or nine and come through customs

28:36

i'm doris a woman with our hands

28:38

folded in prayer and

28:41

it says

28:43

amanda ensues and meet james cops lawyer

28:46

and a one on one meeting with jim as arranged

28:50

so ago and and i think i was can be

28:52

okay because we're still be like on a law and order

28:54

i'm i'm gonna be like those glass partition

28:56

are plexiglass but not

28:58

me a friend still amanda found

29:00

herself in herself room in the jail face

29:02

to face with the man who killed her

29:04

uncle

29:06

heart was small slight man with

29:08

bright blue eyes and what amanda

29:10

describes as an unnerving flirtatious

29:13

manner though

29:15

incomes of guy and

29:18

gets nuked by ball the

29:20

coffee man the a rat's only my family

29:22

personality and

29:26

and then hang of age the

29:29

knowledge he flirts

29:33

on jamie lot movie

29:35

recommendations

29:37

homemade a see i see the

29:39

movie pay it forward was the story of his

29:41

life then

29:43

, would like sort of first

29:46

start screaming i'm not some homo pedophile

29:49

priests crawled

29:51

up and fetal position and like start crying

29:55

like his mind was his very bright

29:57

but as like minded get single that

30:01

a decent price stressful time

30:03

and i didn't know how to do an interview russell

30:07

for both of us can

30:10

pretty

30:11

a pair up pretty quickly that i was

30:13

gonna be alright bespoke

30:15

the gym parts for easier with part part six

30:17

i'm right and this is too upsetting for my am

30:20

i and was too upsetting

30:22

for me that be have

30:25

him angry with me the

30:28

guy just couldn't

30:29

i don't think could write it now twenty years like

30:32

it's just it's too

30:36

ship

30:39

amanda still carries this meeting

30:41

with caught along with her questions

30:44

which are now mine

30:45

cop was eventually charged and convicted

30:48

for the killing of barnett slurpee and and

30:50

was sentenced to twenty five years to life

30:53

the

30:53

where's the investigation here why talk

30:55

about murder that's already been apparently

30:57

solved because

31:00

there's more

31:05

hi i'm shooting of abortion provider

31:09

dr slightly in wasn't the only abortion

31:11

provider to be shot

31:15

he died and there was doctor rochester

31:19

new york she was injured and macmillan

31:21

three doctors and

31:23

canada

31:25

in addition to the murder of doctor slept

31:27

in james com as a suspect

31:29

and for other attacks on doctors

31:32

because the striking similarities between

31:34

shootings people may

31:36

not remember as much about canadian

31:38

abortion providers who were also

31:40

the victims of sniper attacks doctor

31:43

gary ramallah was the first to be shot

31:45

as his home in british columbia in november

31:47

nineteen ninety four followed

31:49

by dr seuss short and ontario

31:51

in november nineteen ninety five and

31:54

then doctor jack feynman in manitoba

31:56

in november nineteen ninety seven an

31:59

american doctor in rochester new york

32:01

was also shot at in the same

32:03

year as doctor feynman the two

32:05

bullets missed but he was injured by debris

32:09

all three canadian doctors were badly

32:11

injured but survived and

32:13

all three had their lives and those of their

32:15

family and community pretty much

32:17

ripped apart

32:19

my puppy wow you know like a bunch

32:21

area lake i would be very

32:23

curious to know no

32:26

i was why they did around

32:29

feel about now

32:32

so would i in fact

32:34

none of the canadian cases were brought

32:36

justice and like amanda

32:38

like think there has to be more to the story

32:41

of the shootings the shooter

32:43

or shooters and who might have

32:45

helped along the way

32:48

when i understand for a police will

32:51

restart free year we

32:53

were told the one ring the

32:55

had a support group here

33:13

someone know something is hosted is written

33:15

and produced by mean david written

33:18

the series is also produced by had

33:20

deal abdel nabi death camps

33:22

and amanda rob

33:24

sound design by evan kelly emily

33:27

, is our digital producers

33:29

and our story editor is chris oak

33:33

are executive producer assess of hernandez

33:35

assess of director of cbc podcasts

33:37

is or of new ronnie if

33:39

you want to help new listeners discover the show

33:41

please rate and review wherever you listen

33:44

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33:49

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33:51

you're looking for more investigations check out the

33:53

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33:55

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33:57

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34:00

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34:02

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