0:00

It's the breakfast club. The world's world's dangerous

0:02

morning show. Hey. Angelie

0:04

Y is kinda like a big sister that always

0:06

picks you for. That's

0:11

not how it

0:11

goes. That's not how anything goes. And he's really

0:13

like a robot. What do you mean by teaching people? Believe

0:16

that. China means is the wild card.

0:18

And I'm about to give somebody the credit they deserve for

0:20

me as stupid. I know that's right. Oh. Listen

0:24

to the breakfast club. Week Mornings from six

0:26

to ten on one hundred and six, seven to be. Columbus

0:28

is real hip hop in RMB. The

0:30

next chapter with Prim Rifica pad is a production

0:32

of iHeartRadio. Hey, everybody.

0:35

It's Prim. Welcome to the next

0:37

chapter presented by Baron Davis and Slack

0:39

Studios. Speaking

0:41

of BD, today, we

0:43

wrap up season two of the

0:45

next chapter with the one and only Baron

0:48

Davis. AKA, the godfather of

0:51

Los Angeles, the basketball. I

0:54

wouldn't necessarily say we say the best

0:57

for us because obviously every

0:59

one of our guests are equally important

1:01

and special, but

1:03

BD does have a very special place

1:05

at least within the context of this show

1:08

as the executive producer

1:10

and also founder of select studios.

1:12

I mean, he's played such an

1:15

integral role in supporting

1:17

and fueling and really just keeping

1:19

the show alive. And for that, I am deeply

1:22

deeply grateful. But

1:25

cast story definitely aligns with concept

1:28

of their show. Yeah. When

1:30

we're talking three to What? The

1:33

next chapter with Prim Siripipat is a production

1:36

of iHeartRadio. Hey, everybody.

1:40

Oh, sorry. 321. The

1:43

next chapter with Prim Rippepat is a production

1:45

of iHeartRadio. Hey, everybody.

1:47

It's Prim. Welcome to the next

1:49

chapter presented Baron Davis and

1:51

slick studios. Speaking

1:53

of BD, today, we

1:56

wrap up season two of the next

1:58

chapter with the one and only

2:00

Baron Davis, AKA, the

2:02

godfather of Los Angeles

2:05

basketball. Now, I wouldn't

2:07

necessarily say we saved the best for

2:09

last because obviously every single

2:11

one of our guests are equally important

2:14

and special. But

2:16

I will say BD does have a special

2:18

place at least within the context of this

2:20

show since he is the executive

2:23

producer and founder of select

2:25

studios. And he has played

2:27

such an role in supporting

2:30

and feeling and keeping the

2:32

show alive for that. I am deeply,

2:34

deeply, deeply grateful. But

2:37

Your story does perfectly

2:39

align with the concept of this show, and and

2:41

I'm really excited for you to hear more

2:43

about his fascinating journey

2:46

which has a lot of twists and turns Prim

2:49

South Central LA living with his grandmother

2:52

to the schemes in a Monica Prim in

2:54

Crossroads, to McDonald's, all American,

2:56

to UCLA, to the NBA where

2:58

he had a thirteen year professional career

3:01

and became a two time NBA All Star

3:04

and two time NBA steals

3:05

leader. I mean, he could have stopped

3:07

there, but he didn't.

3:11

And

3:11

not only has he remained a fixture within

3:13

NBA circles as basketball

3:15

analyst, but also someone who's really

3:17

focused on giving back to the community

3:20

through basketball, but

3:22

he became an actor, a

3:24

filmmaker, a producer, director,

3:28

documentarian, investor, entrepreneur,

3:31

also father, just so

3:34

many things. And

3:36

as I was preparing for this

3:38

conversation and doing some research, I

3:41

started to realize just

3:43

how many interviews done

3:46

and not just in sports, but

3:49

with so many other outlets

3:51

and shows just because of his wide

3:53

ranging interests and projects. And

3:56

in listening back to these interviews, I

3:59

started to notice how a lot of them

4:01

seem to follow the same cadence and

4:03

address the same areas of his life. Most

4:05

of which are highlighted on his Wikipedia

4:08

page, which by the way, I use a lot.

4:10

I guess it. So

4:12

early in our interview, I pose the

4:14

question. What's the

4:16

one thing people have failed to ask

4:18

when they're asking about your journey?

4:21

And I asked that because I wanted to give him the

4:23

opportunity to tell a different

4:25

side of his story and untold

4:27

aspect of his story. And

4:29

his answer was, how?

4:33

How did I do it? That's what

4:35

people have failed to ask me. And

4:38

that became the basis of our conversation.

4:41

So rather than

4:43

talking about the what, what

4:45

he achieved, and what he did,

4:47

and exploring the how, how

4:50

he made it thus far, how he overcame

4:53

these obstacles, how he found

4:55

his lower star through and

4:57

beyond basketball by asking

4:59

how we can have a much

5:01

better appreciation and understanding

5:04

of just who Barron is,

5:06

not just as a former athlete, but

5:08

today as a person. So

5:12

without further ado, here we are.

5:14

BD and I in Sunny

5:16

Los Angeles, California on

5:18

the set of slick studios. Had

5:44

I known that you don't watch yourself

5:47

or listen to yourself, I would have brought

5:49

a TV or monitor and

5:51

kind of play a little part of

5:53

you to see you watch yourself a little.

5:57

That's super. It's not funny. Too

6:00

bad. It

6:05

is the biggest word in essence.

6:07

If you were to But

6:10

you watch yourself a but you watch yourself

6:12

play basketball. Mhmm. A lot. A

6:15

lot. Not a lot. Just if

6:18

I'm with somebody or my kids, I I'm

6:20

always, like, trying to show my kids and then I'll

6:22

just start watching. I love basketball.

6:27

Yeah. I just love basketball, whether it's

6:29

watching myself, old

6:32

eighties, nineties, other dudes.

6:35

Like, I just I just

6:37

love basketball and love, you know,

6:39

just everything that comes with it. There's

6:41

just so much appreciation

6:43

respect and beauty and the art. You

6:45

know, it's just like the art form of

6:47

the sport that you

6:49

know, that's like, I can fall

6:51

asleep when I was in basketball. I used to

6:53

fall asleep when I went to basketball. Wow.

6:56

So you're you're were you one of those

6:58

people that, like, would sleep with a basketball,

7:00

literally? It seems like you have you

7:02

you genuinely, like, really, really love

7:04

that. Love it. And it sounds

7:06

obvious -- Mhmm. -- but there's a lot of

7:09

elite athletes who they love

7:11

it, but they won't like sleep

7:13

with the object or they won't, you know,

7:15

dive into it the way others do. Yeah.

7:17

I mean, it, you know, it's Prim bed

7:20

or in the bed. You know what I mean?

7:22

I'm

7:22

not, like, holding it, cutting in it.

7:25

That would be a little too

7:27

much. Not your stuffed animal. I'm too old

7:29

for that. But

7:32

no. I still I still sleep with a

7:34

basketball ball my bed or

7:36

beside my bed. It's it's for

7:38

me, it's like, It's my

7:40

instrument. It's my tools.

7:42

So whether I'm now creating

7:45

writing. I don't know. Sorry to say, like, if

7:47

I'm writing, I'm jubbling to

7:50

collect my thoughts, to collect the story,

7:53

to, you know, write down the

7:55

songs or the words or whatever

7:57

it is. It's like, basketball is,

7:59

like, my instrument.

8:02

Even if I don't have a ball, like, you

8:04

may see me in the grocery store just Oh,

8:07

you know what I mean? Just making

8:09

a move. That's just it

8:11

just allows me to have, like, this this

8:14

this freedom the freedom and

8:16

space to, like, live

8:18

in a world that is, like, completely

8:21

mine. You know what I mean? And I

8:23

would you know, it's like, you can relate

8:25

it to a artist's painting, you can relate

8:27

it to a scientist cooking

8:29

up some, you know, to me thus.

8:31

That's art. When

8:33

you, like, not even thinking

8:36

about something and you're, like, it's

8:39

around you. It's energy. It's like, It's

8:41

like you see so many different layers

8:43

to it. You know what I mean?

8:46

That's so interesting. And it

8:48

tells me that your relationship with

8:50

basketball continues to be good because there are some

8:52

athletes that step away from it and they don't

8:54

wanna have anything to do with it. They'll throw

8:56

away their trophies, they'll separate from the community,

8:59

they don't even bother, you know, sometimes

9:01

they'll they'll take a little break from even watching

9:03

it or engaging with

9:05

it. So that kind of tells me that you

9:07

you still have a really good relationship with

9:09

basketball. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's

9:11

not been down for

9:13

sure. You know, I would say,

9:16

overall, it's like I wouldn't be here without

9:18

basketball. But

9:22

also, like, basketball is the thing

9:24

that broke my heart. You know what I mean? And,

9:26

like, you know, you you

9:28

and I think and I and I feel

9:30

like in order to get to a place under nanny.

9:32

Like, you have to be hard broking. You have

9:34

to be you have to have failed success

9:37

success and failures and, you

9:39

know, like, I've been through a lot with

9:41

basketball, dealing with people, dealing

9:43

with

9:43

teams, institutions, fighting. You

9:46

know what I mean? And and

9:49

Yeah. It's just

9:52

like there's

9:54

so much shit going on. Right?

9:57

It's like this is the

9:59

only thing that you can

10:01

actually trust. Right?

10:03

Because it got you to a place,

10:05

but along this journey,

10:08

like, all of the different people

10:10

because of this thing. You know what I

10:12

mean? This ball like,

10:14

all of the different people and their collective

10:17

energy, like, are

10:20

attached to that equally

10:22

or trying to figure out a

10:24

way to draw an attachment,

10:27

you know, to me. Right?

10:29

And so, like, this journey.

10:32

Right? Has in

10:34

has involved so many people. Good,

10:37

bad, great, you

10:39

know, amazing James

10:41

have been carried

10:44

out fulfilled, wishes,

10:46

hopes. By saying it's like shit,

10:48

it's it's no little more

10:50

can I you know, I'm at I

10:52

know magic Johnson. I

10:54

know Michael Jordan. I

10:56

love Larry Bird. I walk I I had

10:59

a conversation with Larry Bird.

11:02

I know Karimo do Jabali.

11:07

Kobe. Mhmm. He said I caught Kobe was

11:09

my dog. I

11:12

mean, I can walk up to Steph Curry, have a conversation.

11:15

Like Yeah.

11:17

Come on. You know what I

11:19

mean? It's like that's like

11:23

That's it. Everything

11:25

I dreamed of as a kid, every

11:27

NBA player I ever wanted to meet.

11:30

Everything about

11:31

basketball. Like, I've pretty much,

11:33

like, pretty much lived

11:35

it. And even beyond, like,

11:37

your your basketball circles, the

11:40

the Kate Hudson's of the

11:42

world, your cross her your cross her's

11:44

experience is so fascinating to

11:46

me. And that

11:48

allow you to get into circles that I

11:50

would imagine coming from South Central LA.

11:52

You probably wouldn't have

11:54

engaged with. Maybe maybe later

11:56

on. Maybe never. Yeah. I

11:58

ain't got gone across roads. Because

12:02

LA is probably one of the most segregated

12:04

cities in America, you know,

12:06

and it's also defined

12:08

by the haves and the have nots.

12:12

And, you know, having an opportunity to

12:14

go to crossroads. You know,

12:17

people always say, hey. You're South

12:19

Central. You went to cross I was like, I was crossing. I

12:21

was like, once again,

12:23

it's the journey, like, learning the

12:25

city. You know what I mean? Forty five to

12:27

a hour. And a half,

12:29

sometimes it it would take to get to school

12:31

from the middle of, you know, the

12:33

city all the way to the beach.

12:35

And then go into a school where you see in the beach

12:37

for the first time. And then

12:39

every week, you can go you know what I mean? It's

12:41

it's nothing. It's

12:43

nothing to people over here. And so I always say,

12:45

like, to kinda, like,

12:47

describe my experience.

12:50

At Crossroads was, like, I was a fresh

12:52

Prim, but I went back to

12:55

the hood. You know what I mean? It was, you know,

12:57

uncle Phil or none of that. It

12:59

was, like, you know, the fresh prince from the

13:01

hood. So I was going to a school to

13:03

me that was like Disneyland and

13:05

trying to stay there as long as possible

13:07

because I knew I was safe. And

13:09

then when I go back home, it wasn't that I

13:12

wasn't safe. It's just my

13:14

awareness had to change. You

13:16

know? Mhmm. So I had to go

13:18

and create the Disneyland for

13:20

myself living in South Central

13:22

because it was shit really going

13:24

on. Life.

13:27

You know what I mean? Mhmm. And so how

13:29

do you block all that out? And where do

13:31

you go? You know? And I think

13:33

Crossroads will start helping me understand

13:35

people. You

13:38

know, start helping me understand,

13:40

like, there there is

13:42

a history

13:44

outside of the history that I'm learning.

13:46

You know, it start start

13:48

having me, like, pay

13:50

attention in detail. You know what I

13:52

mean? Mhmm. Start learning how to have

13:54

conversations or listening conversations

13:56

that people are having, like,

13:59

about business and life and,

14:01

like, you know, watching parents and

14:03

their kids actually have real conversations

14:05

about life and

14:07

politics and, like, the kids had

14:09

an opinion. You know what I mean? So a

14:11

lot of times, I was just a fly on the

14:13

wall -- Mhmm. -- and try

14:15

to bring those skills and those things

14:18

back to my neighborhood and

14:20

translate that in a way that we

14:22

need to be doing this too. You know

14:24

what I mean? Mhmm. That was

14:26

very difficult, but, you know, it's

14:28

like that's how

14:30

I was learning. Mhmm. And I was

14:32

learning stuff here to get in it where, you

14:34

know, it's like, Crossroads is

14:36

good because it just kinda opened up my

14:38

world to realize that, you

14:41

know, There's so many

14:43

people. There's so many cultures. There's so

14:45

many struggles. There's so many

14:47

fights. There's so much history

14:49

to people. Right? And

14:52

then you

14:54

are allowed, right, to

14:56

question everything. You

14:58

are allowed

15:01

to be whoever you want to

15:03

be. And you got you're saying you got that from

15:05

Crossroads. Yeah. And you can change

15:07

your mind. You can

15:09

change your mind again. You can change

15:11

your mind again. You can change your

15:13

mind again. You can keep changing

15:15

your mind until you figure out what you

15:17

wanna do. And I

15:19

think that was the beauty across

15:21

those because one year

15:23

somebody came as, you know, they wanted

15:25

to be a a gothic

15:27

person. The next year,

15:29

that gothic person was like,

15:31

now prepster. The next

15:33

year, prepster was

15:35

now like a skateboarder and a hipster.

15:37

Then that person graduated

15:39

and went to, I don't know, I

15:41

forget what school is Stanford.

15:47

And

15:47

so I started learning that you

15:50

whoever you want. You mean, in a

15:52

drama department, And I'm like, yeah. And

15:54

then for me, I really like art.

15:56

Right? Mhmm. And it's

15:58

not quitting.

16:00

Right? It was just, like, I

16:03

wanna try something new whereas,

16:06

like, I grew up in a culture where

16:08

you you start something and you

16:10

had to finish it. You know what

16:12

I mean? Which and

16:14

you couldn't

16:14

quit. I feel like that's our culture today,

16:17

especially when you talk about, like, youth sports,

16:19

early specialization. Kids

16:21

declaring that they want to be an NFL player,

16:23

NBA, professional, feeling a blank,

16:25

at seven years old.

16:27

And then for me, growing up in an

16:30

immigrant family, Asian

16:32

background, like, there's no question, like, you you

16:34

my path was Are years

16:36

old? What do you wanna do? Which one do you wanna pick? Yeah.

16:38

You gotta pick this? You gotta dedicate the

16:41

rest of however long to

16:43

that. So that's so interesting that you

16:45

had that experience at

16:47

Crossroads. And I think that explains

16:49

so much because out of all the people

16:51

that I've met an

16:53

interview. The only person that comes to mind

16:55

might be like a Marcellus Wiley that I've

16:57

talked to because he's coming from

16:58

Compton, but he's social

17:01

chameleon. And when I think of you,

17:03

you are

17:04

such a

17:04

social chameleon. Like, you really,

17:08

really

17:09

depending on what the environment it is. And I've listened

17:11

to multiple interviews. Mhmm. And, like, depending whatever

17:13

the the context, the environment,

17:15

the people, like, you will

17:18

just you'll shift

17:20

and change. I just I don't know

17:22

if I've really seen that. Do

17:24

you notice that about yourself? Or and and tell me if

17:26

I'm, like, inaccurate. If I'm Maybe it's

17:28

I I feel like it is a talent, you

17:30

know, to be relatable for

17:33

people to feel like you're

17:36

accessible And so if you build that,

17:38

like, I think you you have to also

17:40

use the right words.

17:44

You know? Well, I I always say, like,

17:46

man, just pay attention to, like,

17:48

people's words. And, you know, for

17:50

me, it's, like, when I'm talking,

17:53

whoever it is, I'm, you know,

17:55

I'm trying to relate.

17:58

Mhmm. Right? And when I

18:00

go

18:00

home, like, to practice.

18:02

Like, I have to figure out

18:04

how to

18:08

talk about a

18:10

kid starting to eliminate spam

18:12

and then how that kid becomes

18:14

Paul Newman and how that's a

18:16

bit you know what I mean? And so it's like,

18:19

I'm always trying to figure out,

18:21

like like, what's the narrative of

18:23

the story even in

18:25

conversations that I hear now?

18:27

Sometimes, it's annoying. I mean What's

18:29

annoying? Like It's like not like like

18:31

that I'm always thinking about, you

18:34

know, like, And I and I was

18:36

saying, like, maybe that's

18:38

my practice because practice is annoying. You know

18:40

what I mean? But it's just, like, kinda,

18:42

like, rehearsing,

18:45

like, trying to solve

18:50

problems. And if people are, like, ideating

18:52

on something, trying to figure out

18:54

a solution, and then give

18:57

it immediately right

18:59

back. You know? So I would say that, like, that's my practice

19:01

as, like, a creative as a business

19:04

person, you know, as

19:06

a networker or

19:08

whatever you wanna call it, you know, a

19:10

connector is

19:13

is all based on, like, listening

19:15

to people and, like, solving

19:17

problems. So when I speak, it's

19:19

like I'm trying to make sure

19:22

that I'm not just

19:24

on the panel, just talking shit.

19:26

Like, making gas stuff and, like, oh,

19:28

I feel good. But, like, what am

19:30

I gonna do? You know what I mean?

19:33

And it's a lot of people, you know, it's just a

19:35

lot of people out here that are

19:39

doing things for reasons

19:42

that are self serving. And

19:44

I just don't I mean, I rather just

19:46

kinda, like, live to serve

19:49

people.

19:49

Mhmm. You talk about

19:52

just your history and

19:55

a little bit about

19:57

your past. And I'm curious

19:59

about, you know, there's a lot you have a lot of

20:01

titles and labels, especially today now

20:03

at forty three years

20:05

old.

20:05

Mhmm. So,

20:06

you know, Godfather of Los Angeles Basketball,

20:08

two time NBA All Star, you're

20:10

a basketball analyst, filmmaker producer

20:13

director, entrepreneur investor, The

20:15

list goes on, but

20:17

I'm curious about after

20:20

having listened to multiple interviews,

20:22

I feel like they kind of follow a normal trajectory. Like,

20:25

okay, you start basketball at this age, South

20:27

Central, Crossroads, UCLA,

20:29

NBA, boom, retire, all

20:31

that stuff. What's the

20:33

one thing that people forget

20:35

or fail to ask about

20:39

your path. That's really important.

20:46

How did I do it? I

20:51

don't know how to I mean, it's just like, you know,

20:53

a lot of details, but I

20:55

would I don't know. I mean, it's it's

20:57

people usually ask me about

20:59

basketball. It was just I would say,

21:02

like, how like, how did you do

21:04

it? You know what I mean? Like, if

21:06

you could change five

21:09

decisions that you made

21:11

that wouldn't affect who you are today,

21:14

but could ultimately, like,

21:16

make you a better person. What were

21:18

those five decisions that you

21:20

made? What would like, where would

21:22

you be? You know what I mean? Because

21:25

a lot of times, like, we

21:27

look at people who are successful

21:30

And, you know, we get an opportunity

21:33

as the people that are successful to,

21:35

like, share our story and our journey, but a lot

21:37

of that should just be, like, hell

21:39

a positive. Yes. Maybe

21:41

maybe super positive. You know, it's

21:43

like super positive, super motivational,

21:46

and, like, We don't we it. Well, it's like there's no

21:49

lights. Yeah. Well, people like,

21:51

we're going through the worst shift, the same shit

21:53

she's going through. Mhmm. Magnify.

21:56

You know what I mean? And so people don't

21:59

ask about, like,

22:01

all the bad mistakes,

22:04

all the fashion I

22:06

did. You know what I mean? All the,

22:08

like, times I was a

22:10

asshole. You know what I mean? Like,

22:12

when I lost, when I was down, like, what how what

22:14

was that doing? When I was injured? Like,

22:16

what you know, it's like,

22:19

Nobody asked about that because don't

22:21

nobody wanna hear that

22:24

shit. You know what I mean?

22:26

I do. Because people really

22:28

going through an s, so they don't a lot

22:30

of times, it's like you don't want

22:32

to can

22:34

really make the connection because

22:36

if you do, then it's probably

22:39

some shit. That

22:41

she dealing with too. It's like, you know,

22:43

going to church and the preacher giving

22:45

AAAA sermon

22:47

And you're like, damn. Did he like did somebody

22:50

tell them I was coming today? You know what I mean?

22:52

He was like, you know,

22:54

it's like it's it's that connection

22:56

and figuring out, you know. I

22:58

don't, like, just make this some better

23:00

because that's the whole

23:02

part of the journey again, you

23:03

know. So how did you

23:06

do it? I'll ask you the

23:08

question that no one else has

23:10

asked, giving you the

23:12

opportunity to talk about

23:14

those low lights or whatever you want to

23:16

fill in.

23:16

Always

23:20

kinda, like, just just

23:23

to my north star. Always

23:29

I tried to stay eco

23:32

free. Try to say,

23:34

sucker free, explain what what

23:36

does that mean? Because it's a lot of

23:38

bad people out here. You

23:40

know what I mean? And a

23:42

lot of there are a lot of people that

23:44

are professional suckers,

23:48

blood suckers, money

23:50

suckers, energy suckers, just

23:52

people who just they don't know

23:54

how to give shit. They just know how

23:56

to take. And so, like, I

23:58

would say, you know,

24:00

even a lot

24:01

of times dealing with those people. Right?

24:04

But knowing that, you know, they

24:06

ain't getting no farther than

24:09

nowhere. You know what I mean? And

24:11

just realizing that, you

24:13

know, when

24:16

I say stay sucker free is, like,

24:19

there's no way,

24:21

like, your reputation. My

24:24

reputation. Like, my reputation gonna be what

24:26

my what I choose my reputation

24:28

will be. I'm not gonna

24:30

let people kind of plan a

24:32

reputation off for me. Mhmm. So I gotta

24:34

get this leech off me. You know what I

24:36

mean? Because that's not so blood.

24:38

It's my blood. You know what I mean? It's not so blood.

24:40

It's my blood. And I think people

24:42

do that in business. People come

24:44

around athletes and they wanna,

24:46

you know, oh, man. Like

24:49

like, people are so good at making you feel good and

24:51

making you feel like, you know,

24:53

like, this is where you need to

24:55

go. You know what I mean? And it's

24:57

almost like, you

24:59

see a lot of people get hit mid ties.

25:02

Yeah. You know, and and

25:04

and for me, it was like, growing

25:07

up in LA, becoming

25:09

a millionaire in nineteen. You

25:11

know what I mean? Coming from South

25:14

Central, you know,

25:16

having deals that I'll hunt with. They

25:18

were now, like, going to college, going

25:20

to jail. You know what I mean? And it

25:22

was, like, it was that college jail

25:25

streets. And so now,

25:27

becoming a target, however you

25:30

look at it. Right? It

25:32

also forced me to, like, accept

25:35

that? That

25:37

you're a target. Absolutely.

25:39

And so

25:42

because in LA, you're

25:44

always a target. What

25:47

are your s and y standard? You

25:49

know what I mean? And so that

25:51

that mentality for me was like, Alright.

25:53

I'm a target. I know what's coming, so I'm, like,

25:56

listening and I'm trying to,

25:58

like, in

26:00

real time, learn what

26:02

is happening, understand what's going on

26:04

and then, you know, and so it's like the

26:06

most important thing III would

26:08

say was like, people who were,

26:11

like, who

26:13

had something for me

26:15

that didn't give me anything. Mhmm.

26:17

You know what I mean? It's, like,

26:19

those were the things that I was trying to, like, shake

26:22

off and avoid because I

26:24

was, like, really on, like, this

26:26

journey on my own. There

26:28

was no person that I could call and be like, hey,

26:31

man. I'm having a hard time. And

26:33

you're like, there was there like, I

26:35

didn't have, like, a

26:38

mom and dad and my journey. You know

26:40

what I mean? My grandma was just

26:43

there, and I wasn't gonna bother

26:45

her. So it was like, really, I was like

26:47

a grown growing growing growing

26:49

person. You know what I mean? So it was just

26:51

there was never a moment

26:53

and and or a person that I can think of

26:55

or I can just pick

26:57

up the phone and feel at

27:00

ease. You know what I mean? And

27:02

so with that, it was just

27:05

learning how to, like, sign,

27:08

get over on somebody before they got

27:10

over on me. And, like,

27:12

when I was eighteen, nineteen, and

27:14

then as I start in August, I was like,

27:16

well, I don't have to allow

27:18

anybody to get over on me because I don't have to

27:20

be around. Mhmm. You know what I mean?

27:22

And if I start moving and doing what I

27:24

wanna do, then I won't

27:26

be hypnotized by

27:28

whenever the bright lights,

27:30

the jewelry, the name

27:32

and the fortune. I was just like, hey,

27:34

I'll be my own agent. You

27:36

know what I mean? So I cut out a

27:38

lot. Me

27:40

and my Homeboys have just managed my

27:43

career. That cut out a lot. You know

27:45

what I mean? New friends, new

27:47

homies, and and things of that nature.

27:49

And then I was like, you know what?

27:51

I'm gonna take this agent

27:53

money, and I'm gonna

27:55

try things. And so that

27:57

gave me kind of like my

28:00

opportunity to build a case

28:02

study for myself. You

28:05

know what I mean? Building a business

28:07

around the things that

28:10

I always wanted And

28:13

so I would say now,

28:15

you know, towards the middle

28:17

of the third chapter of my

28:20

career. There's a lot

28:21

of things that I can do or know how

28:23

to do. You have a lot going on. Because

28:26

I was I was twenty years old. I was my

28:28

old age. That's

28:30

unbelievable. So how you did it?

28:33

I'm gonna try really hard to

28:35

summarize it. You you clearly did it

28:37

on your own. Self made.

28:39

For the most part, it sounds like of your childhood,

28:41

other outside of your grandmother, you

28:43

really you didn't have

28:45

this support system in a sense

28:47

of, like, that person that you could call,

28:49

you were guided by your north

28:51

star. And then once you

28:54

were up and running, you

28:57

you eliminated and cut out

28:59

the fat

29:00

and kept your circle really tight.

29:04

So I

29:06

know that you were raised by your grandmother. Mhmm. But

29:08

so and what about your mother and father? I

29:10

don't know too much about that

29:13

background. Yeah. They just had hard times

29:15

when I was growing up.

29:17

My mom, my dad rest

29:19

in peace, he passed away.

29:22

Think when I was, like, twenty one. Mhmm.

29:25

Like, the day before we played the Lakers, the

29:27

first time I was inviting them to NBA

29:30

game. He literally died the day the

29:32

day of the game when we

29:34

were flying in from Utah. But, like, you

29:36

know, he he he grew up rough. South

29:38

Central, on some hard times, you

29:41

know, and, you know, and with my

29:43

mom, my mom, the same. And so

29:45

you know, they fell prior to all

29:47

the negative things, you know,

29:50

NLI and industries. And so

29:52

it was, like, hard to have

29:55

It was it was nothing

29:57

good coming out of none of

29:59

that. But I

30:02

would say the the beauty of it

30:04

all, is that like

30:06

me and my mom are so tight now.

30:09

She's sober. She's

30:11

straight. And, like, we were rocking and,

30:13

like, you know, just being best friends

30:15

for the last, you know, the

30:17

last ten, twelve years. You know what

30:20

I mean? And, like, really just knowing each other

30:22

and, like, knowing getting to

30:24

know

30:24

her. You know what I mean? Because I felt like

30:26

we miss a lot of time. Just

30:29

kinda like So I

30:31

gotta get

30:31

it together. Yeah.

30:34

But that was you know, that for me, it

30:36

was, like, If I did not become a

30:38

own agent and do shit my way,

30:40

then I would have not

30:44

not spent the talk. You know what I mean? It

30:46

was, like, it was time

30:48

to, like, be, like, fuck fame.

30:50

I gotta make sure, like,

30:52

this shit is right. You

30:54

know what I mean? Fuck Cabo

30:57

and going to Bali, and I wanted to

30:59

do that

30:59

shit. But I have to go make sure, like, my

31:02

mind was you know what I mean? And

31:04

so once I got to the

31:06

NBA and I realized, like,

31:09

I can do what I want. Yeah.

31:11

And money was a resource to do what

31:13

I want. I wanted to use that to,

31:16

like, trying to

31:19

solve problems or face things. Howard

31:20

Bauchner: So

31:21

how you do it is you

31:23

really take chances. Like,

31:26

you're really

31:27

you you're

31:28

really you're calculated and

31:30

you think about it, but

31:32

you don't really mess around. Because there's not a

31:34

lot of people that after

31:38

not having the relationship maybe that they

31:40

would have wanted with their parents,

31:42

take the time to

31:45

work on relationship and

31:47

heal. You know, I have a

31:49

few friends, a lot of friends

31:52

that has that dynamic

31:55

and a lot of them

31:57

don't want it don't even

31:59

wanna touch it. Yeah. This is

32:01

this is touchy. It's

32:03

touchy because you

32:06

know, there there there there's a kid there

32:08

that the adult version of

32:10

you can't, you

32:11

know, like you you you

32:14

like you don't know if this kid is

32:16

gonna ever forgive you.

32:18

Yeah. You know what I mean? And

32:20

so, like, you know, like, as an

32:22

adult, when you think about that kid, you think about what

32:24

that kid was going through. You know,

32:26

for me, it took me, I believe it

32:28

was Father's Day, to

32:30

go to my dad and, like, bring

32:33

him flowers and say happy father's

32:35

day. And, you

32:38

know, and kinda, like, my

32:40

humor in candor and just also my

32:42

confidence. And I was like, I'm the daddy now

32:43

motherfucker. I'm the daddy now. I'm the

32:46

daddy now. Well, you're the exec produce or so. I

32:48

mean That's what I said. I'm like,

32:50

well, I'm daddy now. I'm like, I got, you

32:52

know, like, I got you. You know what

32:54

I'm saying? Like, I'm a man and now

32:56

it's like, I'm going NBA

32:58

games, and I'm seeing dudes with their daddy's

33:00

in the stands, like, realizations.

33:02

Like, I ain't taking me to practice and shit.

33:04

I'm like, man, like fuck

33:06

it. Like, if you

33:08

weren't how you were,

33:10

I wouldn't have been who

33:12

I was. Mhmm. So I

33:14

actually came to thank you because

33:17

if you were in my life,

33:20

especially how you are You're

33:22

probably fucked my shit up, bro. And he started

33:24

laughing. We started laughing. And

33:26

I realized, you know, I was, like, twenty one,

33:28

twenty two years old. I realized, like,

33:30

And it took everything in my

33:33

power to go see this man.

33:35

You know what I'm

33:36

saying? It took -- Yeah. -- I was scared.

33:39

I was nervous. I was like, you

33:41

know Not today. So what got you there? Today.

33:43

Oh my daddy. You know what I mean? I wasn't like

33:45

he was never around. It was just like, I

33:47

didn't fuck know I mean? And, you know, I think

33:49

my sister was telling him that he was sick. I should

33:51

go see him and shit like that. And

33:53

it was just

33:54

like, I It

33:57

just took a lot. It took a lot.

33:59

It took a lot

34:02

to, like, make

34:06

-- Yeah. -- just to get out, you know, the like,

34:08

first of all, I don't even remember why. Like,

34:10

what the fuck did I buy them flowers? For

34:12

you know what I mean? It was just, like, it

34:14

was all kind of, like, this, like, no moment, but

34:17

it's something behind you

34:19

pushing you. Like like, that when

34:21

you do this, like, you're gonna be a man. You know what I mean? Like like,

34:23

when you do this, like, it ain't

34:25

gonna even be

34:28

There is no conversation I have

34:30

about what happened. You tell

34:32

me? Yeah. It's like, alright. God,

34:34

let's go out. We good. saying?

34:38

And, like, that was kind of, like,

34:40

a lot of times, we

34:42

have successful people that come from fucked

34:45

up places or you know, plug them

34:47

situations. We don't want to like, we live in it. We don't

34:50

wanna address it. But, like, it's

34:52

okay. We can move like, he had me. I

34:54

won't be

34:56

here for if it wasn't for him. I wouldn't be in the NBA if wasn't

34:58

for him. Mhmm. Right now, if you're a bat

35:00

and if if you didn't parent,

35:02

you know, the way that

35:06

we saw that shit in books or the way I saw school is okay,

35:08

bro, because I am who I am. And

35:11

I got you. Mhmm. What

35:15

I mean? So now you can tell me, like,

35:17

what the fuck is, like, this lump in the

35:19

back of my neck. Do you have one?

35:21

Do you have, like, this,

35:24

like, are you are is one too long ago?

35:26

Like, you know what I mean? Like, tell me what the fuck you?

35:28

Like, do you have these things?

35:30

Like, I need to know. You know what I

35:32

mean? And A lot of times

35:34

we gotta go fuck with our parents no

35:36

matter what because

35:38

it's going to make us better parents.

35:42

Yeah. Mhmm. You know what

35:44

I mean? Because we have to

35:46

know. Yeah.

35:48

Who are you going through? And you were thirty

35:50

five, and you was forty years of, like,

35:52

what was you saying in

35:56

life? You know what I mean?

35:58

Like, good or bad? Because the information

36:00

is like, that's where you

36:02

come from. And so you

36:05

know, for me, it's, like, just

36:07

understanding that, respecting that,

36:10

and not having the parents

36:12

didn't mean I like,

36:14

have parents around. You know what

36:16

I mean? And so you, like, go and

36:18

find that village, my grandma that was, like,

36:21

the most solid person in the

36:24

world. You know what I mean? She was the

36:26

most solid part person in

36:28

the world. Like, there was everybody loved her. You know what I mean? And stayed

36:30

solid and she gave love.

36:32

You know what I mean? And so,

36:34

like, that was enough for me

36:37

to know I one person. You know

36:40

what I'm saying? And everybody else like

36:42

chip in and love, how they

36:44

love, but You know, sometimes you just you gotta

36:46

go find your

36:47

family. Yeah. I think that

36:49

makes so much

36:52

more sense because when I come here to your studio which is such

36:54

an interesting cool space

36:56

and it's pretty big I

36:59

don't know. It's, like, five thousand and six thousand square. I don't even know

37:01

-- Oh. -- ten or whatever it

37:04

is. But the thing that

37:06

struck me as I

37:08

got to meet your team finally in

37:10

person. I was like, that's so interesting. He's like,

37:12

really created this

37:13

family, the sense of community.

37:15

And it seems like you're somebody that really has your

37:18

your hands on every single person and

37:20

every single project. Mhmm. And now

37:22

and I

37:24

think that loyalty and really connecting with

37:26

people who are authentic, the the sucker free

37:28

mentality. Like, that makes so much more sense.

37:30

Yeah. It's like like you said, cut

37:33

through the fat. You recognize talent, you

37:36

recognize good people, people want

37:38

outlets, people want voices,

37:40

you know, and like shit. I

37:42

do too. Right? And

37:44

I want to identify

37:46

dope talent, dope

37:48

creators, people who can, you know,

37:51

champion thought and and champion what

37:53

the fuck they're passing about.

37:56

And that's why, you know, that's why Bill

37:58

Slick was, like, look social media, you

38:01

look at YouTube, you look at all

38:03

these medium and medium, medium

38:06

platforms, and

38:08

it's like, you have to shift

38:10

to all the bullshit just to find good

38:12

people -- Yeah. -- or a good

38:14

conversation or a good group of, you know,

38:16

content or a good like, it

38:18

it it it snowed, like, all over the

38:20

place. Now it was slick.

38:22

It was just like, man, if

38:24

we could tag a person, and that

38:26

person tags a person. That

38:28

person tags a person. Then you got

38:30

all, you

38:32

know, solidified,

38:37

authentic, validated people

38:39

in an ecosystem. And, you

38:41

know, it's like, we are

38:44

we all kind of like the

38:46

same shit because we're

38:48

all a part of the culture. Mhmm. Now if

38:50

we can start tagging and and nominating

38:53

and upgrading it up in people. You

38:55

know what I mean? And give them a

38:57

platform where they can create and

38:59

collaborate and concretiate and get they get they shit

39:02

out and have distribution.

39:04

Then I like I like our chances

39:06

-- Mhmm. -- because it's ultimately, like,

39:09

just wanna see all that shit in one space.

39:12

You know what I mean? It was a year or

39:14

so. Marshall Marshall.

39:18

Jason's also glass is show, fuzzy show,

39:20

like, all of the all the podcast, Jason

39:22

Main show, all all of

39:24

the podcast said and all the shit

39:26

that we're building and bringing in is

39:28

really just a family

39:31

label ecosystem. Mhmm.

39:34

Run your shit. We all work together. We

39:36

all help each other. And at

39:38

the end of the day, like, you know,

39:40

high tides rise all ships.

39:44

Yeah. And it don't matter who is

39:46

who gets the Emmy. It doesn't

39:48

matter who gets the Webby

39:50

It doesn't matter gets big deal. like we're

39:53

gonna celebrate wins. And

39:56

as long as

39:58

we can teams celebrate wins. We'll be in a winning system, winning

40:00

culture, and practice

40:02

will be practiced, and games game time

40:05

is game time. And all you wanna

40:07

do really is just be on a team and play. So you're you're really

40:09

acting as that bridge. I

40:12

forgot what interview I was listening. I mean, it was

40:14

like all

40:16

the smokers. One of those interviews. That was really good. They did a really good

40:18

job, but you talk about being that

40:20

bridge. And I think at the time, you were

40:22

talking about maybe bridging gap

40:24

between South Central and Crossroads and

40:26

those two communities. But I think over time,

40:28

it seems like you're really that

40:31

connector of bridging the gap between all

40:33

these different

40:34

communities. So going back

40:37

to raised by your grandmother,

40:39

knowing a little bit more about your mom and dad.

40:41

So you talked about that North Star. What

40:43

was that North Star? What was the what was the

40:45

thing that was

40:48

leading you in terms of how you

40:50

did it. Was it basketball or was it just like a general philosophy?

40:52

One of those basketball for

40:55

sure. And then it's

40:58

curiosity and it's wanting to do

41:00

shit. I want to actually be

41:02

able to

41:04

do so. Like, I probably never learned to play the

41:06

piano. Or I may

41:08

learn to play the piano. You know what I mean?

41:12

Like, I challenged

41:14

myself. Is the curiosity,

41:16

I think the North Star is like,

41:18

the curiosity basketball was like,

41:22

the vehicle. Mhmm.

41:24

Right? So once I got once

41:26

basketball star becoming, like, the

41:29

thing that kept me going straight narrow. Right? Then I

41:31

was, like, trying to just catch that

41:33

North Star. When I got to the NBA,

41:35

I realized that

41:38

basketball was a business. You know

41:40

what I mean? And basketball was like,

41:43

I had so much shit

41:45

involved in it. what

41:48

Then my North Star, the star star

41:50

getting further away, and I

41:52

start seeing, like, the

41:54

responsibility in

41:56

the basketball. Right,

41:58

that I had, right, where

42:00

I was in time and

42:02

what I wanted to do and

42:04

what everybody or all the athletes around me wanted to

42:07

do, but we did have

42:10

access. And so

42:12

I said, you know, I'm

42:14

gonna go do this. Oh, shit. Like,

42:17

oh, okay. I don't wanna do that

42:19

anymore. I wanna go do this because so and so said, like,

42:21

that's what he wants to do. And so

42:23

I started doing things, right,

42:25

or trying to do

42:28

things that our crew, our

42:30

ecosystem of, like, NBA dues and

42:32

stuff like that, like,

42:34

nobody was busting out the scenes.

42:36

They're, like, trying

42:38

to pump calls, like, in that in that

42:40

bubble that they was trying to put

42:43

us in. And so I

42:46

was just listening and, like, pogo hoes.

42:48

Mhmm. So does

42:49

that mean that your

42:51

transition from basketball

42:55

was a little bit easier or was it

42:57

still -- Okay. -- but she went

42:59

out really I don't know. It was

43:01

a worse.

43:03

Was that the was that the hardest

43:05

part? Was that the hardest time

43:08

of my life? Yeah. I mean,

43:10

I would

43:12

say you know, like, you have some hard times in life,

43:14

and I think each

43:16

moment in situation, especially

43:19

when you meet. That was, like, the

43:21

hardest time my speaking about basketball and, like,

43:24

my love and all

43:26

this shit, after I got

43:28

hurt, I was like,

43:30

okay. I'll probably I

43:33

can't play basketball ever again. So

43:36

I'm gonna give myself amnesia.

43:40

Wow. So

43:43

I'm going to think that I

43:45

never play basketball. And I'm

43:47

gonna cheat

43:48

myself that I I

43:50

didn't play basketball. So that goes with the athletes

43:52

I've talked to where they just completely want

43:54

to erase and forget that side of

43:56

it. So you went through that phase of

43:58

like That big song. I

44:01

went through that big song, and

44:03

I was, like, a asshole to a lot of

44:05

my fans. I apologize. But

44:08

people would be, like, looking at me and I'd

44:09

be, like, what the fuck are

44:12

you looking at? I'm like, aren't you there in Davis? I'm like, nope.

44:15

And it was like

44:17

not even thinking about Like

44:20

but I was showing like, if somebody came up

44:22

to me, like, oh, you bet. Why's more

44:25

than I'm wrong, though? I

44:28

couldn't even talk about it, didn't

44:30

wanna do it. You know what I mean? But,

44:32

like, it was just like

44:34

something that I felt like I

44:36

needed to do. In order

44:38

to distance myself

44:40

from the fact that, like,

44:43

this was like, they you

44:46

know, I was on the castaway

44:48

boat, you know, and

44:50

and and further and further away from the

44:52

shore. So I was like, alright. Well, we're

44:54

fishing right now. You know what I mean? I've

44:56

never been in that island. And

44:58

then I just started, like, because

45:00

you like a shame, you're embarrassed,

45:02

you know you know, like, You're saying,

45:05

like, your homeboys who were two or three years younger, and they still

45:07

rockin' and it's like, damn,

45:10

dude, like, like,

45:13

where am I? Where do I fit in? Like, where do I you know, it's like, who

45:15

am I? Who do I wanna

45:17

be? And, like, The

45:20

last thing you wanna do is go around that because you get fucking

45:22

excited. Your body feel good. You know

45:25

what I mean? You wanna play again. You

45:27

wanna be a part of it. And

45:29

it's like there's no room for

45:32

you. You know what I mean?

45:34

And, you

45:36

know, But I think now,

45:38

it's, like, it's a great time to be

45:40

a basketball player, retired basketball

45:42

player. There's so many opportunities to,

45:45

like, still do what you do. And fans

45:47

are still, you know,

45:50

supportive of, like, you know, just

45:52

the game. I think basketball had done

45:54

it, like, to me at what once I,

45:56

like, kind of, got that out in

45:58

my system, I realized it was a documentary

46:01

that I was gonna do,

46:03

and it was There's

46:06

a men's basketball league and

46:08

a like a NCAA tournament and

46:11

it's called the masters of basketball

46:13

or something like that. And I

46:15

believe it's, like, fifty five and up. And there's

46:17

a tournament in these dues.

46:20

They in

46:22

there, like, I sent you the

46:24

trailer. I sent you the trailer. I sent you the trailer,

46:26

but it was -- Wow. -- when

46:28

I did it, I didn't really

46:30

really realize, like,

46:32

how that was going to impact me. And there was

46:34

a guy who was there, like, how old do

46:36

you use? Like, I'm

46:38

eighty six. And

46:40

then and he was like, yeah, I think I'm

46:43

gonna play about another two or three years,

46:45

and I'm a hanging up.

46:48

And I was like, what

46:50

am I doing? Yes. You know

46:53

what I mean? Yes. Mommy.

46:57

My time. Wait. Hello. Start the clock.

46:59

Come on. If they're getting down

47:01

like that and it was just like it

47:03

was the most like and

47:05

how inspiring This is,

47:08

like, maybe six or seven maybe eight

47:10

years ago now. It's been

47:12

a

47:12

while. Like, twenty

47:14

thirteen, fourteen? So then you had your

47:16

in you had your massive knee

47:19

injury, twenty twelve? Yeah. Then

47:21

it must have been within the two years with

47:23

a twenty third it was, like,

47:25

twenty fourteen. Okay. Because I

47:27

remember I spoke at the NBA Tech Summit, met

47:29

this young lady who was, like,

47:32

programming us. And I think at the time she

47:34

worked with

47:36

Amazon, And she was like, yo, my downloads basketball. You have to

47:38

like and I was just like, alright. Cuddle like

47:40

us. And the camera crew, like, I wanna make

47:43

I wanna make content. Well, it was

47:46

just a it was a great

47:48

plug. We didn't wind up doing anything we

47:50

should. But

47:52

the five minute trailer that was shot was,

47:54

like, it immediately changed

47:58

my life. I realized I

48:00

did. I'm about to be hooping at

48:02

fifty, sixty years of

48:04

in the gym talking shit to

48:07

my homeboys. Right. And then I started going back to

48:09

the gym and, like, you know, working

48:11

out and getting back in the gym plan and

48:13

it was, like, man, if I never planned the

48:16

NBA again, like, Who knows? I go play

48:18

in the g league. Got a chance to play in the

48:20

g league. Wanna play in the big

48:22

three, which was a not

48:25

a main. But there's a league somewhere,

48:27

you know, where I think is

48:30

going to come

48:32

out of this

48:34

retirement situation and, like, allow for,

48:37

like, something extremely

48:40

complimentary to

48:42

the NBA. Because basketball is is taken off.

48:44

Mhmm. Right? And I think that, you know,

48:46

the NBA does

48:48

the best. G

48:51

league is is obviously cut from

48:53

the NBA's club.

48:58

But nobody else, like, you know, I I like TBT and

49:00

things like that, but it's it's like it's so

49:02

many. You got TBT, you got the

49:05

Julie, you got all these great

49:07

That's giving people an opportunity, even a big

49:10

figure, giving people an opportunity

49:12

to play. but

49:14

there's still, like, something that's

49:16

gonna come about where it's going

49:19

to create a whole another

49:21

you know, capture a whole another audience

49:23

and ecosystem of people who

49:25

just love the game.

49:27

So that moment, of seeing a did you say he was,

49:29

like, eighty six? Mhmm. Or so seeing that

49:32

eighty six year old man continue

49:34

to have with

49:37

basketball sparked your

49:40

interest and, like, I can reengage with

49:42

basketball maybe in a

49:44

different way.

49:45

It might have led to maybe your

49:48

return or comeback in twenty fifteen. But before

49:50

we go there, you know, we kind of talk

49:52

about

49:52

like, how

49:53

did you do it? You know, our the

49:56

conversation oftentimes

49:59

is focused

50:00

on how we overcame and the resiliency. So I'm

50:02

gonna I'm gonna put the microscope on that moment,

50:04

that period that was, like,

50:08

really difficult because I think it's important for not only not only

50:10

fans, but also athletes who really understand. Right?

50:12

Because that's the concept of this

50:13

show. It's like really putting a microscope

50:15

on that part. So

50:18

And

50:19

I find it interesting that you were You felt shame

50:22

because I I

50:23

think to to fans,

50:25

they would say, mean, this guy

50:27

play for over ten years, two time NBA

50:30

All Star, like, you know,

50:32

did all these things,

50:34

you know, achieved great

50:36

heights and it's not like

50:38

you were pushed out.

50:40

You suffered a serious injury. You

50:43

tore your MCL, LCL, PO, everything,

50:45

kneecap, all that other

50:46

stuff. So So, like, I

50:48

think most people will be like, you went out

50:51

like, a lawyer. Yeah. Like a soldier. Yeah.

50:53

I mean yeah. I mean, I

50:56

respect all that. I appreciate all

50:57

that. But it's, like, I did not go out

50:59

on my own terms.

51:01

So that's what boils down to. You want it to go out

51:03

on your own. Hell, yeah. I actually,

51:06

I wanted you know what?

51:08

I always envisioned as I started getting older. I was like,

51:10

who is the young dude that's

51:12

going to retire me? You know what

51:15

I mean? Like, I want it,

51:18

like, I wanted

51:19

to, like, wake up, go to the game,

51:21

and be, like,

51:22

damn, dude. Steph Curry just

51:26

murdered me. The next day. You wouldn't die in front of

51:28

Leah, that's how

51:29

I gotta go. That's how I

51:31

gotta go because

51:33

I I won would

51:36

have enjoyed it, appreciated it, and then, like,

51:39

you know what I

51:41

mean? It's like, it it probably

51:43

could have been something in that things

51:45

that I could have gave them to. You

51:48

know what I mean? So I kinda, like, missed

51:50

out on, like, this whole

51:52

generation of, like,

51:54

PGs that you know, we would have either

51:56

been a battle or back up. You know what I mean? It's just like I

51:58

miss like that part. You

52:00

know what I'm saying? And like,

52:03

a given Even playing even playing in

52:05

that era, it was just kinda,

52:07

like, damned it. Like, this is

52:09

the era that was met for me. You know

52:11

what I mean? That's why I tried it with the g

52:13

league. I thought I had a chance I had chance with the g league, but I got

52:16

injured again. That was in twenty fifteen

52:18

and sixteen.

52:20

Mhmm. And then now I'd just be hoping, but, you know,

52:22

it it's it's just it's

52:24

fun. Like, now basketball is

52:27

is fun because the

52:30

way they hoop now and the way they play is, like, all you

52:32

gotta do is be in shape and, like,

52:35

have skills. So it's

52:37

you know, it's like, alright. I I get to

52:39

make a little money in the summer, you know,

52:41

from some one on ones. And I

52:43

get money on one on what where do you go

52:45

into the park? And, like, hustling people? Do

52:47

you know? Well, we have to pick up. You know, there's

52:49

always a sucker. There's a there's always

52:51

a fool who wanna who wanna

52:53

spend some money Who is doing

52:55

that hat with you? Man, young dude, young NBA dudes with a lot of

52:58

money. New for

53:02

new contracts. That should

53:04

be a show

53:07

in itself. Hello.

53:09

Right? I'm down. Yeah. Try to hustle a BJ on the

53:11

court. Like Me hustle and

53:14

NBA does and do some

53:16

overseas when they get

53:18

paid check. That's great. You wanna play 101? Like, we start playing

53:20

like, man. We wanna play like, we wanna

53:22

play for, like, five thousand, you know, a

53:23

flavor to twenty thousand? That's hilarious

53:25

because I just on social

53:27

media about DuPont putting

53:30

a bet with Kobe that he wouldn't score

53:32

like a triple double and I forgot whatever

53:34

whatever game it was. Right? Probably do. Yeah. And he obviously lost that

53:36

bet because -- Yeah. -- COVID. COVID doesn't

53:38

lose COVID doesn't lose anything. You know what

53:41

I mean? Against COVID. So

53:44

So twenty twelve to twenty sixteen, was that a

53:46

period that was you were you

53:49

were mad, you were trying

53:51

to figure your way through No. I was just

53:53

I was saying more so just kinda

53:56

lost. What was

53:58

lost? What was lost? So

54:00

would it loss, feel like, and look like? And how did

54:03

you find yourself? It didn't

54:04

feel like nothing, and then look

54:08

like nothing. It was just like, you know, I couldn't walk

54:10

really because of my

54:12

knee. And so,

54:14

like, I was bit in the bed for, like,

54:18

three months, my legs straight like this. So then once

54:20

my leg was off the cast,

54:22

like, I had to work like, trying to

54:24

learn how to bend my

54:26

chest. So person was

54:28

like, alright, I need to learn how to

54:30

walk. Yeah.

54:32

You know what I mean? Or, like,

54:34

I need to figure out how to bend my knee. You know? And and

54:36

I will and I was like, you know,

54:39

like, all I wanna do is to

54:41

be able to to walk standing

54:46

up. And then one day, I was

54:48

like, damn, dude, I'm

54:50

walking. Like, what

54:52

the fuck? And I was like, well, maybe I'd need to, like, if I walk

54:54

faster, you know what I mean, and

54:56

be able to bend and, like, do

55:00

a squat. Like, that's all I want because then at least I can,

55:02

like, blog, you know,

55:04

see the free fell. I don't wanna be a

55:06

critical the next, you know, I'm

55:08

walking, and I'm shogging, and I'm

55:10

running, and I'm like, dude,

55:12

what if I wouldn't play basketball?

55:15

And so I wouldn't play basketball. My junk homies

55:18

and shit because they all fat and slow.

55:20

And I was like, you know, moving

55:22

like this.

55:24

I because I was injured. Dude, so I was like,

55:26

I can keep up. You know, I can keep up

55:28

with these dudes. They gonna get tired.

55:31

And then I was like, oh,

55:33

that was cool. We hung

55:36

out and it was

55:38

just like, It wasn't the NBA, but it it

55:40

reminded me of, like, what

55:42

basketball give you, that love,

55:44

that camaraderie, And

55:47

then, like, every step of the way, it was just was just asking

55:49

myself to accomplish

55:52

something small. And

55:56

even in my life, I was like, man, I was

55:58

in such a fog. I was like, that

56:03

part was like, super

56:09

chaotic. And when was that?

56:11

Twenty five. Because that's my

56:14

my grandpa grandma had

56:16

died, you know,

56:17

and then I got hurt my knee. And you

56:19

know what I mean? And so it was like And that was

56:21

the time when you had your kids. Right? Because you had

56:23

and then Twenty fourteen in twenty fourteen. Then I have my kid

56:25

in twenty fourteen. And so between

56:28

that, it was just trying to figure out, like,

56:30

who I wanted to be, what I wanted

56:32

to be. Like, how I wanted to be it and, like, you

56:34

know, it's, like, when I got

56:36

hurt, I I looked up and

56:37

I'm, like, yeah, I got all this money. I got

56:39

nothing to live for. Like,

56:42

know what I called and to share with, things like that.

56:45

And then, you know, y'all married

56:47

had a kid and realized

56:49

that, you know, like, am

56:51

to, like, I get a chance to be,

56:54

like, an amazing

56:56

father. You know what I mean? And so,

56:58

like, I think my

57:00

kids, you know, have really been,

57:03

like, my reason

57:06

for like, going

57:08

through the depression, the

57:10

anxiety, the hit rock bottom, the

57:12

rabbit hole, the, like you know, and,

57:14

like, a start

57:16

realizing that I

57:20

could and then Batman is my

57:22

favorite movie, Dark Knight. You

57:24

know what I mean? So, you know,

57:26

it's almost like the Batman

57:28

sequel scene.

57:30

And he goes all the way to the pit,

57:32

and he has to figure out how to get

57:34

out. And a lot of times

57:36

we do that to ourselves.

57:40

We dig deeper and deeper and

57:42

deeper and deeper and you know what I

57:44

mean? We always l. We keep

57:46

digging deeper deeper and deeper

57:48

holes, but it's not a

57:50

deep hole.

57:52

It's just a whole bunch of, like, bullshit

57:54

in a little shallow pot. So you can you

57:56

gotta you know what I mean? Just step the

58:00

fuck And say, you know what? I don't have to hold accountable

58:02

for rabbit holding. I

58:05

can apologize to myself and

58:07

I can forgive myself.

58:10

I can go ask for forgiveness. I can start go

58:12

start mending. Mending. You

58:14

know what I mean? And patching up

58:16

the things that I was ashamed

58:20

I was embarrassed of. You know what I mean?

58:23

And whatever comes

58:26

with that, comes

58:28

with it, but it's also a part

58:30

of like who I am and who I'm

58:32

gonna be and why I need

58:33

to, like, be

58:37

something. Mhmm. I I

58:39

hear the description about

58:43

the idea that this

58:46

so called rabbit hole was a lot shallower

58:49

than you

58:50

thought, However,

58:52

in a lot of the

58:54

research that I'm doing in doctoral training and

58:57

all this stuff, it's crazy to look

58:59

at some of the

58:59

I'm out a academic perspective, but just to

59:02

see how athletic

59:03

retirement they're finding. And so

59:06

I think especially in

59:08

today's modern day sports landscape,

59:10

that retirement can be a

59:12

traumatic experience that also

59:14

leads to and precipitates health

59:16

issues and disorders. So it's

59:18

not – you are definitely not the

59:20

first case. And the research I'm

59:22

doing, it's

59:24

like, Yeah. Like, here's another case of, like, retirement, and then it happens

59:26

to lead to substance abuse or depression or

59:28

anxiety or interpersonal issues or

59:31

question, identity loss, like fill in the

59:33

blank, all of these things, you know, a loss

59:35

and identity and structure and support and all

59:37

these things. You just kinda go through that

59:39

list. So I say that not necessarily to, like, counter

59:41

what you're explaining, but to

59:44

validate your experience in a sense

59:46

of, like, when you went

59:48

through, you're certainly not the only one

59:50

and it's and it's art, especially when

59:52

you you talked about, like, your

59:54

North Star and all these

59:56

people that were connected with this

59:58

one thing basketball. It kinda makes

1:00:00

sense, like, when when that exits your

1:00:02

life, like, It's just kinda

1:00:04

like, well, god. What else is

1:00:06

what else is out there? Who am I?

1:00:07

But that wasn't the

1:00:10

large star. And that's what we have to realize.

1:00:12

That's the star that other

1:00:14

people pay for us.

1:00:16

And then

1:00:18

to also to add to

1:00:20

mental health and

1:00:23

retirement. Right? How about mental

1:00:25

health when you get the fucking

1:00:28

money? Yeah. Absolutely. So

1:00:28

you can't. You know what I mean? It's

1:00:31

like, oh motherfuckers retire. Excuse me.

1:00:33

Look. Me when we sired.

1:00:35

They got mental health issues. They'd like to go

1:00:37

to compressions and all this shit. It's like,

1:00:40

no. The

1:00:41

journey, the

1:00:44

start before You can't diagnose somebody after they

1:00:46

already been fucked up. They've been fucked

1:00:48

up for forty forty

1:00:52

years. Mhmm. Now they're gonna

1:00:54

retire and it's like, you have to deal with real

1:00:58

life shit. There

1:01:00

is no escape. People

1:01:03

who play sports or

1:01:05

have high IQs or music

1:01:08

and art and film.

1:01:10

The reason why people make mistakes

1:01:12

are, like, say, oh, I got it. Because

1:01:14

they already had it and

1:01:17

that it that was their escape. That

1:01:19

is where the they

1:01:21

found a sucker or a

1:01:24

sucker found them and

1:01:26

figured out how to take that and hide that and get

1:01:28

them into the system.

1:01:30

So you know what I mean? Yeah. So they

1:01:32

can get what they

1:01:34

needed. They get what they

1:01:36

needed out. You know what I mean?

1:01:38

And the problem is it

1:01:40

goes back to

1:01:42

the beginning. You know

1:01:44

what I mean? Because everything is manufactured

1:01:46

and on an assembly line.

1:01:50

Right? That nobody has the time to pay

1:01:52

attention to if somebody

1:01:54

is mentally fucked

1:01:56

up. Right. Yeah.

1:01:58

And

1:01:59

dudes are. Well, underneath the

1:02:01

helm. Nice. Because, like, you know, I

1:02:03

I look at my stuff

1:02:05

like damn dude. I don't live through a whole bunch

1:02:07

of shit or like

1:02:10

like movie type shit. And

1:02:12

then I look at my teammates and I'm like, they going through a

1:02:15

lot too? Well, like, they

1:02:17

ain't me. You know what I

1:02:19

mean? Like, they don't they

1:02:23

don't like, they they

1:02:26

don't they don't see themselves

1:02:28

after. You know what I mean?

1:02:30

They, like, the people that

1:02:32

they have around them are like

1:02:34

like, you know, like, we

1:02:36

all look into each other and cry

1:02:38

for help. You know what I'm saying? Because,

1:02:40

like, it's like, yeah. Well, I gotta, like,

1:02:42

damn, don't you? Like, thirty leaches on it. He was like,

1:02:44

yeah. Where are you? Like, four leaches?

1:02:46

And, like, you know, if we could

1:02:48

all, like, we all

1:02:50

need need the help so and and at the

1:02:52

same time, we

1:02:54

we we we have to be so confident

1:02:56

We have to be so

1:02:59

sure of ourselves. We have

1:03:01

to be so

1:03:04

without want. Without need. Right? You

1:03:06

have to be indestructible. You

1:03:08

know what I mean? And then

1:03:10

at the same

1:03:12

time, like, We have to also be vulnerable. You know what I

1:03:14

mean? We have to be people's

1:03:16

scapegoat, people's

1:03:18

sounding board, you know, it's like

1:03:20

a lot a lot a

1:03:22

lot a lot of giving and

1:03:24

giving and giving and

1:03:28

nobody's feeling they're feeling

1:03:30

the athlete facade, berendivous,

1:03:32

the basketball player. What

1:03:34

the stereotypes, the chairs, the

1:03:37

styles, They want you like, they wanna frame your

1:03:40

background. Everybody wanna

1:03:42

put their collage pictures on your yearbook

1:03:45

page and shit. That's what it is.

1:03:47

It's like, you know, but you but at the same

1:03:50

time, it's

1:03:52

like, you don't know who

1:03:54

these people are. You know what I mean?

1:03:56

On your yearly page or you don't know

1:03:58

that party or you didn't even

1:04:00

know that you did like to drink.

1:04:02

Right? You didn't know that she did

1:04:05

like the gamble. You didn't know that she

1:04:07

did? You know, it's like, there's

1:04:09

so much there's a lot of the night negative.

1:04:12

Or people like, hey, man, you

1:04:14

better than him or done than done. It's

1:04:16

like building atomosophy and jealousy fail

1:04:19

to you guys. This is all else. This is

1:04:21

all of it. And it's

1:04:24

like, if

1:04:28

we can Hold on. If we could if

1:04:30

our generation can hold on

1:04:32

to each other and shake out

1:04:34

all the leaches. You know what I mean?

1:04:38

And you know, you see what, like, from Al and I were

1:04:40

sitting there like, well, Lamar is

1:04:42

doing stuff curry with, you

1:04:44

know, golf

1:04:46

and say, our Smith and Golf women's sports

1:04:48

is just like, our ecosystem

1:04:50

and I say, our generation are

1:04:52

are, like, the barrier breakers. Like,

1:04:56

we're breaking glass ceilings. We're breaking we're punching

1:04:59

holes in the bubbles because

1:05:01

people realize that we

1:05:05

need each other, you know. And

1:05:08

so there's been more collaboration, more

1:05:10

together, and it's more like

1:05:12

Champion and people

1:05:14

speaking

1:05:14

out. You know, to do that. I love

1:05:17

the collaboration aspect. I

1:05:19

feel like the pandemic kind

1:05:22

of push that forward. Mhmm. And I love that aspect.

1:05:24

And then you kinda mentioned this like a few

1:05:26

minutes ago, but when you were talking about

1:05:28

the mental health and the journey,

1:05:32

during your career and you're talking about money and the fame. And

1:05:34

I did I actually did my

1:05:38

research apprenticeship the

1:05:40

transition on lived experiences

1:05:42

of African American, former

1:05:44

professional and football players. And

1:05:48

so one thing that I when I was looking at, like, I had, like, eleven participants

1:05:50

when I was, like, going through all these interviews and

1:05:52

just, like, going through the data,

1:05:56

there's something about the professional journey

1:06:00

that it's like the money

1:06:03

fame pressure expectation. I mean, it

1:06:06

just it really

1:06:10

causes and creates so many issues.

1:06:12

And it's a hard thing to

1:06:14

navigate an experience that not

1:06:16

a lot of people can relate to.

1:06:18

Because I I think from from the outsider's view,

1:06:20

they're like, okay, money. You got money?

1:06:22

Saw, fang good. You get everything

1:06:24

you need. But it reminds

1:06:26

me of a story where

1:06:28

Josh Childress former NBA, Stanford player, signs the

1:06:30

biggest contract in your

1:06:32

European basketball history. He goes over

1:06:34

there, and

1:06:36

there's just all this

1:06:38

money and all this hype. He's in Greece.

1:06:42

And, you know, during our interview, he

1:06:44

he admits he's like, I turned into

1:06:46

a recluse. Like, I couldn't I couldn't get no money. Money.

1:06:48

And it and it seemed to

1:06:49

kind of trigger his

1:06:52

social anxiety. So

1:06:54

he goes on the court, you know, he now he's, like, air balling, from

1:06:56

the free throw line, all this other

1:06:58

stuff. So it's more just kinda

1:07:01

shedding light on,

1:07:04

you know, just how hard. The dark

1:07:06

side, the business side of

1:07:08

professional sports.

1:07:10

Hey,

1:07:10

Ali. Say, like, you know,

1:07:12

you have a kid that never had nothing.

1:07:14

A million dollars no

1:07:17

instructions. You know,

1:07:19

there's no instructions.

1:07:22

There are no instructions.

1:07:24

Literally, no

1:07:26

instructions. There's no template.

1:07:28

There's no call center.

1:07:31

There's no crisis hotline. For I

1:07:33

just got a million dollars. What do I

1:07:35

do? You know what I mean? It's

1:07:37

like shit. He got a million

1:07:39

dollars, and it's a whole crowd of people

1:07:41

running over there. You know what I mean?

1:07:43

With proposals, pictures,

1:07:46

and what some people wanna I never trusted millionaire. I never

1:07:48

took a picture. Some people like, you

1:07:50

got a million. I know in two thousand and

1:07:52

eight, none to him or somebody like

1:07:55

man, at hundred thousand. Like, you you know what I mean?

1:07:57

It's like, man, that's kinda

1:08:00

bloody. You get a million dollars

1:08:02

with no instructions.

1:08:04

Like imagine, imagine

1:08:06

if you were not who you were. And I imagine you

1:08:08

were in college. Mhmm. And you're

1:08:11

doing all this research. And

1:08:13

I'm like, You know what, Primm? I love this mental

1:08:15

health research paper.

1:08:18

Here's a million dollars.

1:08:22

It's yours. I

1:08:25

would do nothing responsible

1:08:27

with it. You what? The

1:08:32

first thing you're gonna do is nothing responds. No.

1:08:34

You gonna go and go We're gonna go celebrate. Yeah.

1:08:37

You gonna go

1:08:39

we gonna celebrate. And it's like, damn, okay, what

1:08:41

do I want? What did what did I always want? Alright. I wanted this

1:08:44

car. Okay.

1:08:46

Well, they'll give me So -- Mhmm. -- you gotta go get some

1:08:48

fit and all that shit. Right?

1:08:50

Man, it's like, man, I'm gonna take

1:08:52

my best friend, and then you spending all

1:08:54

this money on yourself. You're like, then

1:08:57

I can't keep leave my best friend. I'll let them get

1:08:59

their fresh. You know what I mean? And it's like, oh, we're going out. It's like, yeah. you you don't want your

1:09:01

homegirl's dirty and dusty. You know

1:09:03

what I'm saying? You

1:09:07

can't you can't go up and then they go down, you know

1:09:09

what I mean? So you gotta get them

1:09:11

right. Yeah. So that first day,

1:09:14

you know, that first day you

1:09:16

buy. At first day, you

1:09:18

balling. You know what I mean? You balling. And I should feel good. Right. You know,

1:09:21

it's like, damn.

1:09:24

Like, this Now you got this

1:09:26

brand new car. You just buy the rubber around all around the city area. You know, like, you wasted gas.

1:09:28

Yeah. You forgot to buy a place.

1:09:30

You're like, oh, shit. I gotta go get

1:09:34

oh, get a place to stay. Then it's like, oh,

1:09:37

I got no furniture. You gotta go get furniture. You

1:09:39

know what I mean? And it's

1:09:42

like, you just doing shit. This is doing shit because it's like,

1:09:44

oh, this is what I'm supposed

1:09:46

to do. Now, here's the problem.

1:09:49

I gave you

1:09:52

the million. Now somebody know y'all

1:09:54

gave you the million. Now they're gonna say, hey, this is what you need to

1:09:56

do. You

1:10:00

got four people like that, and you're

1:10:02

gonna have to figure out who you're gonna listen to.

1:10:04

The financial person is

1:10:06

telling you, if they're smart,

1:10:10

to put this shit in the bank and don't do nothing.

1:10:12

Man, I'll let you know that shit.

1:10:14

Get out of here. You know,

1:10:17

parents or friend or confidant? That may be saying,

1:10:19

hey, if you need help, I know some

1:10:21

people that can help you, that

1:10:23

may not have a million dollars,

1:10:25

but it can help you. That you're gonna talk to

1:10:27

the millionaire and it's gonna say, don't spend your

1:10:30

money. Don't give nobody shit. Don't buy

1:10:32

nobody shit

1:10:34

because and ain't a lot of money. You know what I mean?

1:10:36

And then you go meet the person. And it

1:10:38

could be the friend, the best friend, the

1:10:40

auntie, the mom, and the cousin, whomever it is.

1:10:42

That's gonna say, yo, you know you know what you

1:10:45

gotta do. Look at your shoes. You

1:10:47

gotta go get yourself right.

1:10:49

And they're just gonna be there to

1:10:51

just very sure you spam in because some don't some

1:10:54

some fruit don't fall off

1:10:56

that cheap

1:10:58

if they keep you in a

1:11:00

space. So not a million dollars. You

1:11:02

know what I mean? That money is,

1:11:04

like, that

1:11:07

money can can can move, but

1:11:09

not that money can move

1:11:11

and move you and move people and people

1:11:13

who can move you. And so it's, like,

1:11:15

almost like a really skew. Yeah. And

1:11:17

then, like, that's your money. Now you have to go

1:11:19

out with all

1:11:23

this shit happening over here the attention to your money

1:11:25

and then go try to

1:11:28

perform. And then

1:11:31

people say, well, you're worth it. He's not worth it.

1:11:33

And this and that. And

1:11:35

then that's where that

1:11:40

anxiety exists. As well as this anxiety.

1:11:42

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's like, you know, the athlete is sitting in the middle

1:11:44

and and all the

1:11:47

time is saying, like, All

1:11:50

I need is this. All I

1:11:52

need is this. Like, you're trying to

1:11:54

figure out what you need, so

1:11:57

you can just be

1:11:59

better and perform well. And be

1:12:00

great for the people that are giving

1:12:03

you the most anxiety. And everybody need

1:12:05

need something

1:12:08

from you. Yep. And want something

1:12:10

from you. Absolutely. Team, organization, those bands, league, culture,

1:12:15

family, friends, cousins, people coming out

1:12:17

of the woodwork, now knowing who you are, your your money is

1:12:19

out there, your contract, your sixty five

1:12:21

million dollars bucks deal. You

1:12:24

anything. You

1:12:27

are paying for everything. So

1:12:29

that's why

1:12:30

athletes talk about how isolating

1:12:32

it it feels. It probably feels

1:12:35

like you're just on this Yeah.

1:12:36

Island. And that's why you see like a lot of athletes

1:12:38

like they Chinese become a best friends because

1:12:41

it's like, man,

1:12:43

I'm paying it. Get results. Like, you

1:12:45

know what I mean? And it's, like, maybe easier to just pay my

1:12:47

trainer to be around and,

1:12:49

like, I don't have to

1:12:52

deal with. Somebody

1:12:54

who's not giving me something that I can't

1:12:56

benefit from. Howard

1:12:57

Bauchner: So

1:12:58

spinning it forward from basketball, what's

1:13:03

the What's how

1:13:04

manual? What's if you could create a

1:13:07

manual. Initial stages, obviously, because there's gonna

1:13:09

be a lot of iterations of

1:13:11

this

1:13:11

new model. Fifty pages. And

1:13:14

maybe fifty pages to start.

1:13:16

I would say

1:13:19

the BD manual Purpose

1:13:22

over profit. Always

1:13:25

make sure that

1:13:28

your purpose far

1:13:32

exist past your profit

1:13:34

because that means you're

1:13:36

doing something you love

1:13:39

and they can't there's can pay you whatever. You're

1:13:41

still gonna do it for it.

1:13:44

So and then

1:13:46

also purpose over profit means

1:13:49

when you do get money, right, that the

1:13:51

money you get should fulfill your you should be getting

1:13:54

that because you're fulfilling your

1:13:56

purpose. And

1:13:59

your purpose is gonna have a much bigger impact.

1:14:02

Number two is

1:14:08

curiosity. Be curious.

1:14:14

Listen. Because

1:14:18

curiosity is how you evolve.

1:14:24

Listening, is

1:14:26

free. You know what I mean? Usually. I mean It's

1:14:29

being a great No.

1:14:31

I'm just kidding. Podcast,

1:14:35

great show, podcast, self

1:14:38

help, listen. Listening

1:14:41

is free. And so your

1:14:43

curiosity and listening should translate into three

1:14:49

is trying things and knowing that

1:14:52

failure leads

1:14:56

to success. And

1:14:59

that's how I take chances.

1:15:01

Having space for

1:15:04

failure, mistakes.

1:15:07

Always. You leave enough, you'd

1:15:07

be so nimble that you

1:15:10

always leave room for

1:15:12

mistakes or

1:15:16

failure because you may it you may

1:15:18

fail doing something and it may click,

1:15:20

and that that is what you

1:15:22

need to grow it. So, you know,

1:15:25

you know, start growing your success. You know, just face

1:15:27

off your success. You have to grow

1:15:30

you have to grow

1:15:32

or or

1:15:35

solve, improve success, based

1:15:37

off failure. Mhmm. So after

1:15:40

kind

1:15:41

of touching on all these

1:15:43

different chapters and, hopefully, in a different way that you haven't really tackled

1:15:48

before? How

1:15:49

did you do it? And I'm curious, I'm gonna ask

1:15:51

you that Therapy. Shared

1:15:56

therapy. You need therapy, you

1:15:58

need a team, you need friends, you need business people, you need mentors,

1:16:03

know, you the shit needed as a kid. And you

1:16:06

need to go find that kid

1:16:08

in yourself and and

1:16:11

look at that kid and

1:16:13

don't be ashamed of the negative shit that that kid was going through, but look out

1:16:15

how smart that fucking kid was to navigate,

1:16:19

right, to get you

1:16:23

hear because if it wasn't

1:16:25

for that kid, right,

1:16:28

and the beauty,

1:16:30

the innocence, the intelligence, You know what

1:16:32

I mean? The hunger? The drink? Like, just the the drive

1:16:35

and that like, go find that kid. And then start

1:16:39

seeing, like, who are the people who help impact that kid?

1:16:41

And then do you deserve to

1:16:43

do this for

1:16:46

yourself as an

1:16:47

adult? Have you been in therapy for what? For a while? Like,

1:16:49

are you in and out? Everybody moves the

1:16:51

therapist. I agree. I've been with

1:16:53

me for ten years. You get

1:16:55

a million dollars. And

1:16:58

you come from any good or broken situation in your in your

1:17:03

professional athlete go invest yourself

1:17:06

in a fucking therapist, because at least you got somebody that you can talk to that

1:17:08

can trust you

1:17:11

that you can trust And

1:17:13

if you're lying to him, you're fucking retarded. You know what I mean? I'm

1:17:15

sorry. I should've said it. If you're lying to him, it's just the dumbest

1:17:17

thing that you can do and it's like

1:17:19

you're lying to yourself. So

1:17:23

it just gives you the opportunity to be

1:17:25

honest to hear yourself, to

1:17:27

work through situations, to

1:17:30

unravel that, move the skew

1:17:31

and, like, go clarity. Yeah. How

1:17:34

long have you

1:17:35

been in therapy? All

1:17:37

my life. All your life since but how

1:17:40

long? Like, literally? No.

1:17:41

No. I'm just saying my life

1:17:43

is therapy. Oh. So I

1:17:45

never mind for ten years.

1:17:47

But when you when you talked about it. Prim my

1:17:49

therapist. She told me I graduated. I was mad as shit. I was just She she

1:17:52

terminated with

1:17:54

you. She's like, god. And she's like, you're

1:17:55

like, you're good. You're good. And I was like, hell

1:17:57

no. Where are you doing? Like, we're

1:17:59

finding somebody new

1:18:02

seed. Don't

1:18:02

send me back out in this world to pick up

1:18:05

-- Yeah. -- to pick along. I'm so

1:18:07

glad my therapist didn't do that. For those

1:18:09

that don't know yet, some of them had

1:18:11

the orientation of, like, Once you achieve a

1:18:13

certain amount of progress, they will have to cut ties because it's like you've done we've achieved

1:18:15

what we needed to achieve. We

1:18:19

can't go further. Fortunately, my therapist hasn't done that with me yet. I was like,

1:18:21

oh, I don't go. I know. I'm about to go do

1:18:23

some more fucked up shit. I see

1:18:26

her taking back You

1:18:28

were saying about,

1:18:30

like, go back

1:18:35

and find and listen to that little kid

1:18:37

in you sounded like

1:18:40

Therapies. Some

1:18:41

yes. Right. Because that's what

1:18:43

it that's that's an experience

1:18:45

that the therapist was

1:18:46

always due. Like, what does Prim the five year old prim want? And any anytime

1:18:48

they ask you that, what does

1:18:50

the five year old Baron want?

1:18:54

You'll get

1:18:56

to the They know what yeah. You'll start

1:18:58

crying. Yeah. But then you'll get to the answer of

1:19:00

what your north star of what what you

1:19:03

really need. Is it fascinating that, like, the five year old you will always know

1:19:05

what's better for you? I mean, like, when you

1:19:07

put yourself yeah. Like

1:19:10

like your child's self, knows

1:19:12

what the best thing you need for yourself

1:19:14

as an adult? So as we're kinda like wrapping

1:19:18

this up, What does the little Barron

1:19:21

need for himself

1:19:24

today in two thousand

1:19:26

twenty two? House, security,

1:19:35

what I mean?

1:19:38

Save. Be safe. And my

1:19:43

kids. My kids and then just,

1:19:48

like, opportunity to

1:19:50

just get out and do whatever

1:19:53

well, just I would say more so, like,

1:19:55

just an appreciation of, like, waking

1:20:00

up

1:20:00

every day. It's very

1:20:03

simple needs, very simple,

1:20:05

but very valuable. And

1:20:07

what do you want people to know about you? Because people people a

1:20:09

lot of people know a lot of things about

1:20:11

you -- Mhmm.

1:20:14

-- but they may not know you as a human being and person

1:20:16

as you stand today. So what would

1:20:18

you like people to know about

1:20:21

you? I

1:20:24

don't care. I don't give

1:20:26

a shit about this. what put

1:20:31

behind me? Really? I mean, I'd

1:20:34

I'd I'd I don't know. I mean, no. This is a bad joke.

1:20:36

What do I want people to

1:20:38

know about me? I don't know.

1:20:44

I don't know. I

1:20:46

like 0IIII

1:20:51

that

1:20:51

is, like, it's hard for me

1:20:53

to answer questions like

1:20:56

that because

1:21:00

I don't really like, we don't know

1:21:02

what you know. Mhmm. Like, I don't

1:21:07

care to, like, Like, I don't

1:21:10

have anything to broadcast

1:21:12

or promote you know

1:21:14

what I mean? I just just

1:21:18

say to share. Mhmm.

1:21:21

Share my journey. Share

1:21:23

what I've learned, what I'm

1:21:25

curious about and I wanna

1:21:28

know. That's it. Like,

1:21:30

yeah, people can get

1:21:32

to know me if

1:21:35

they want. You know, I'm a I'm a very creative, maybe

1:21:37

that's a lot of people. I got an

1:21:39

album coming out

1:21:42

there. I I guess. Yeah. I

1:21:44

I create any character because I did not want,

1:21:46

like, a star like making beats and rap when

1:21:50

I got divorced and shit. And so I, like, created

1:21:52

a character and a whole, like,

1:21:54

voice in south of his character

1:21:58

and, like, I'm, like, that's I'm, like, really

1:22:00

creative, I guess. That's what I want

1:22:02

people to know is, like,

1:22:05

like, I love, like, creating stories

1:22:07

two shows, music, things like

1:22:10

that.

1:22:11

Yeah. That's, you know,

1:22:13

that's a it's a

1:22:16

great

1:22:16

answer. You know, and

1:22:18

you are creative. And I I

1:22:20

appreciate your creativity here at slick and

1:22:22

all the things that you're doing. And

1:22:26

also, I just wanna express

1:22:28

my gratitude for your partnership and

1:22:30

supporting these concepts, many of which

1:22:33

are led by minorities and people from members from

1:22:35

historically marginalized communities and my

1:22:39

show as well. It

1:22:42

it really means a lot. And I

1:22:44

I hope this conversation

1:22:47

sheds light on on your

1:22:49

journey. And really, like, how you did it

1:22:51

because how you did it is, like, pretty amazing. It

1:22:53

really is. No. This shows up. I appreciate you. Thank you so much

1:22:55

for calling us. I

1:22:58

loved what BD said about

1:23:00

purpose over profit. And it resonates even

1:23:02

with me today as I continue

1:23:05

to make this career transition from

1:23:07

sports broadcasting and media into the field of psychology because it's just

1:23:11

a good and simple reminder that

1:23:13

we should never be driven by the outcome or end result, whether it

1:23:15

be winning or

1:23:20

money or fame or any sort of

1:23:22

external validation. We should always be guided by our purpose in life

1:23:24

because that's gonna give us

1:23:26

the bigger picture perspective. We need

1:23:30

to remain motivated, to keep

1:23:32

on our head on

1:23:33

straight, and to stick to our path

1:23:35

no matter

1:23:37

how hard it

1:23:39

gets. Really hope you enjoyed today's conversation. For more episodes, you

1:23:41

know the drill, just visit our show

1:23:43

page on iHeartRadio or

1:23:46

wherever you get your podcast. And to watch the full version of

1:23:48

these interviews, you can head on over to

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1:23:54

with Repapac. Subscribe to us, like us, give us a star rating.

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We really appreciate you showing your support. You

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can also follow me on Twitter and

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1:24:04

underscore The next chapter

1:24:06

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