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dot com. No

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dot com. The next chapter with Prim Ripka Pad

1:31

is a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

1:34

everybody. It's Prim. Welcome to

1:36

the next chapter presented by Baron Davis

1:38

and Schlick Studios. This week,

1:40

we continue the transparent conversation

1:42

series a nationwide multi

1:45

city, multi university series

1:47

addressing such an important topic, student

1:49

athlete mental health, and well-being.

1:51

And it's all being powered by LG

1:53

Electronics USA. So

1:56

glad we're able to re air these conversations

1:58

right here on the next chapter because

2:00

a, this is obviously something

2:03

so meaningful to me. And b, I think these

2:05

conversations are just really important

2:07

for everyone to hear and learn

2:09

from. So throughout this LG

2:11

transparent conversation series, we

2:13

stopped at my a modern Duke University

2:16

to talk about the stressors of

2:18

the student athlete experience and also

2:20

the mental health implications, the consequences

2:23

of those stressors. After that, we took a

2:25

trip to Columbus, Ohio to talk about

2:27

the role of support systems within

2:29

the student athlete experience. And

2:31

today, we are in California at

2:34

Loyola University talking

2:36

about student athlete mental

2:38

held beyond the college experience.

2:41

So, this is all about

2:43

extending the conversation beyond a

2:45

student athletes college experience

2:48

and talking about just a bigger picture

2:50

because our care for

2:52

athletes shouldn't stop once they

2:54

leave college or once they

2:56

stop sport. Now I kind of find it

2:58

so interesting. And in some ways, comical

3:00

that we focus so much on the development

3:03

of the athlete while they are playing.

3:05

But once they stop, which

3:07

for most of them occurs after they leave college,

3:10

it's as if all that support and

3:12

care and attention just comes to a

3:14

stringent halt. And these athletes

3:16

overnight are expected to

3:19

make that transition into the normal

3:21

real world seamlessly.

3:24

For

3:24

some, it's a good transition.

3:26

And for others, it's

3:27

a challenging one. So

3:29

in this episode, you're gonna hear from Dr.

3:31

William Parham, professor in

3:33

LMU's Counseling Psychology Program.

3:35

He is also the direct of the Mental

3:37

Health and Wellness program for the MBPA.

3:40

You will also hear from Tairia Flowers, former

3:42

UCLA baseball player national champion

3:44

Olympic gold medalist, currently the

3:46

head coach the LMU

3:49

softball team, and also Betsi

3:51

Flint, LMU volleyball, alum

3:53

and current professional beach volleyball player.

3:56

As you'll hear, we're gonna tackle a ton

3:58

of critical issues on this

3:59

topic. So without

4:01

further ado, here is our final

4:04

panel of the LG transparent conversations

4:06

series.

4:16

There's no rewinding

4:16

and real life is there

4:18

folks. So

4:21

I think this is it. You know? We close the

4:23

doors. We get the air conditioning going.

4:25

We got a developing audience right

4:28

here on a wonderful Wednesday. We have some smiles.

4:31

This is what happens when you're in sunny

4:33

California

4:33

because I'm coming from the northeast.

4:36

I'm like, yeah, is this Is

4:38

this what it's like all the time? This is where I

4:40

start thinking about moving to the West Coast. Is

4:42

this where I start thinking about Dr. P.

4:44

Absolutely. This is a live

4:46

country.

4:47

Alright. Well, let

4:49

us begin. Welcome everybody to

4:52

LG transparent conversations a

4:55

multi city, multi university tour,

4:57

and mini series addressing such an

4:59

important topic, student athlete

5:01

mental health, and well-being. And it's all being

5:04

powered by LG Electronics USA.

5:06

So listen, we started this series

5:08

all the way out on the East Coast. I have my

5:10

Alma mater Duke University, We

5:12

made a stop in Columbus, Ohio. We

5:14

also spoke to a few members of the Notre Dame

5:16

family. And today, we are

5:18

in sunny California

5:21

dead smack in the middle of Loyola,

5:23

Merrimount University, and our final stop.

5:26

And in in the midst of their final

5:28

their their Wednesday wellness

5:30

day because this is such an unbelievable thing.

5:32

So for people that are listening to

5:34

this show, we've got multiple tents

5:37

we've got I mean, what what is out

5:39

there? Coach? Yeah. You know, the

5:41

food trucks are out there. Trucks? Yes.

5:44

I think they do t shirt giveaways. We

5:47

we usually try to bring our recruits in on

5:49

this stage. Just show them the the excitement and

5:51

what we have going on here and the support that

5:53

the students have. Excellent. I'm all

5:55

about free giveaways. I always want some free stuff.

5:57

That will never stop. Well, for those that do

5:59

not know me, I will be serving as

6:01

your host and your moderator. My name is Prim Rupert

6:03

the Pat. And so

6:05

as a former Duke tennis player

6:07

in student athlete, a longtime sports

6:09

broadcaster, but also now

6:11

as a PHD counseling psychology is

6:13

doing at Fortum University, who's

6:15

so passionate about helping athletes. I mean,

6:17

this is such an honor to be here. And

6:19

thank you so much for for

6:22

all of you being here. So listen,

6:24

we started off. The LG transparent

6:26

conversation series talking about a number

6:28

of topics. Right? The first one was about

6:31

the stressors of the student athlete experience.

6:33

Then we went over to the consequences

6:36

of those stressors. Then we

6:38

talked about the role of support systems.

6:40

And today, we're gonna talk about the

6:42

student athlete mental health experiences

6:45

beyond college. So

6:47

really the aim for today is just about

6:49

expanding the conversation and

6:52

exploring and discussing how is students

6:54

student athletes experiences in their mental health

6:56

and well-being just affects their trajectory

6:59

beyond college. So hopefully that makes sense.

7:01

So joining us today for this important

7:03

conversation Dr. P.

7:05

Dr. William Parham, the professor

7:08

in the counseling

7:10

program at the LMU School of

7:12

Education. He is also the director of

7:14

the Mental Health and Wellness program for

7:16

the National Basketball Players Association

7:19

and also a member of the Mental Health

7:21

and Wellness Task Force for the United

7:23

States Olympic Committee. He has

7:25

also been somebody who, over the years,

7:27

has been a tremendous source

7:29

of support and a mentor to

7:31

me, doctor P. It is such an honor

7:33

to be here with you. Well,

7:34

thank you for the invitation. It's an honor

7:36

for me to join you and my distinguished colleagues.

7:38

Thank you for the opportunity. It's an important conversation

7:41

that I'm glad to be a part of.

7:42

Awesome. Alright. And just going

7:45

around the table now, we have Tairia Flowers,

7:47

national champion, at UCLA,

7:49

two time Olympian in Gold Medalist,

7:51

currently the head coach for the LMU

7:54

football team. This is your time

7:56

coach dropped some bars. You were talking about

7:58

it. This is where your music and rock career begins

8:00

if you want. Oh, gail. The

8:02

stage fright is setting in for the rap

8:04

career. But I'm so happy to

8:06

be here, and thank you for having me. You know

8:08

what? About an hour and a half into the conversation,

8:10

you might, you know Why don't you want to

8:12

talk to me if I yes. Yeah. And then we can close

8:14

out the show with just that if you want. And

8:16

last but certainly not least, Betsy

8:18

Flint, who's been a part of

8:20

the LMU family for many years

8:22

as a student athlete also as

8:24

an assistant volleyball coach currently

8:26

on the pro circuit as a sixth

8:29

time AVP champion. We corrected the

8:31

resume there because I was looking you up and they said five

8:33

times need to update it to six time ADP

8:36

champion. And of course, an Olympic hopeful

8:38

as you have your site set on the

8:40

twenty twenty or Paris games.

8:42

That's very exciting. it's such an

8:44

honor to finally be here in person

8:46

and and thank you for coming here. Yeah. Thanks

8:48

for having me. Alright. So let's

8:50

get this conversation started.

8:52

Okay? Dr. P. I'm gonna I'm gonna go to

8:54

you first, you know, because

8:56

you have such extensive

8:58

experience working with athletes of all ages

9:00

and all different levels at the college

9:02

level at the pro level. You

9:04

know, when we're talking about the student athlete

9:06

experience in terms of mental

9:08

health and well-being, why do you think it's so

9:10

important that we not just focus

9:12

on their experience in

9:14

college to begin to step

9:16

back and look at the bigger picture.

9:19

Well, it it makes no sense for me to only

9:21

focus on the physical you can't

9:23

separate the physical from the mental.

9:26

Unfortunately, the mental, which was the least

9:28

understood, the most panic

9:30

stricken area

9:31

of conversation, it was for a

9:33

long time denied. And I I

9:35

go in record of saying a lot of systems

9:38

though sensitive to mental health and

9:40

wellness, never

9:42

really failed at

9:44

addressing it. They've

9:46

often succeeded at not addressing it

9:48

because of the complexity, the ignorance

9:50

about it. So the

9:51

fact that the conversations have

9:54

now emerged

9:55

thoughtfully. I I think

9:58

directly. I think

9:59

it really

9:59

is the first of several dominoes that

10:02

are thinking gonna fall. Because it really

10:04

balances out the human experience.

10:06

We are more than what we do.

10:08

We think feeling behavior is very, very

10:10

important. And the life experiences

10:12

that have shaped what we

10:14

have become and how we think feeling behave

10:16

is part of the whole person experience.

10:19

So it's a long

10:20

overdue, and I'm glad that we are finally having these

10:22

kind of important conversations. Thank

10:24

you

10:24

for opening the conversation in such a

10:26

transparent way. And that's exactly what this is all about.

10:28

It's just being really raw, really

10:30

really being honest. And this is a topic

10:32

that's ever evolving. Right? You know,

10:34

and and one that's very trendy,

10:36

but at times, kind of controversial But

10:38

let's go around the table, and I definitely want to

10:40

address some of the things that you just address

10:42

in terms of just the systemic issues.

10:45

Also the stigma that continues to persist

10:48

with regards to sometimes mental health

10:50

in sports. But coach

10:52

when we're talking about expanding

10:54

the conversation with regards to just general

10:57

student athlete well-being beyond

10:59

the college years, what comes to mind for

11:01

you? Well,

11:02

we talk a lot with our athletes about

11:05

you're more than just this game

11:07

in being a softball player.

11:09

And I think that's usually the hardest thing is when

11:11

we're done, I've done

11:13

this for so long since they

11:15

were 567

11:17

years old. What do I do

11:19

now? So it's more of

11:21

what are your interests? Where

11:23

can we start getting them

11:25

to tap into things outside? It's just softball

11:28

and enjoy more of the

11:30

experience and kind of growing on

11:32

their own and being away from their parents and

11:34

not just about the game, although

11:36

you know, makes the experience a little bit

11:38

better. Right? But it's not just about the

11:40

wins and the losses. And it's

11:43

you know, just growing and and kind of just figuring

11:45

themselves out at this time. Yeah.

11:48

And it's also so hard when you're in

11:50

college and you're just doing an athlete. It's hard not to

11:52

get sucked into that experience. mean,

11:54

when I when I was at Duke, you know,

11:56

I was thinking about, you know, I came

11:58

here on a scholarship. My job

12:00

is to

12:02

deliver not just in the classroom, but especially on

12:04

the quarter field. So

12:06

Betsy, when we were having our

12:08

preproduction prep Pennal, you know,

12:10

and I was kinda talking about this. I was like,

12:12

okay, we'll talk about retirement, you know, and

12:14

transitioning from sport, which is kind of my

12:16

developing area expertise. And you're

12:18

like, hold on. still competing. Don't forget,

12:20

I'm still out there. So it must

12:22

be just kind of an interesting thing. Like, you're

12:24

you know, you have your site set on the Olympic

12:26

Games and But when you

12:28

I'm just curious about when you think of your

12:31

eventual transition from

12:33

sport, what comes to mind

12:34

for you? Yeah.

12:35

I am I'm not sure yet. I don't

12:37

wanna think about it, which is what I tend to do

12:39

is try to avoid it when I should really, you

12:41

know, think about what I want it to look like.

12:44

It's hard to predict when it's gonna happen

12:46

and, yeah,

12:47

it's been great to listen to conversations you've

12:50

had on your podcast about other athletes who've

12:52

retired and how they're

12:53

dealing with that transition. But

12:55

like we

12:56

were saying is it's just so much more important. The

12:58

wins and losses don't matter at that point.

13:00

It's about, like, the journey and who you're

13:03

coming now and the mental health side is a huge

13:05

part of that. Your answer is

13:07

exactly what I would have said. It's like I I not

13:09

my job is not to think about it. And that's

13:11

like the the paradox of it. It's like,

13:13

you know, and and and you're right that some of

13:15

the some most of the athletes that

13:17

I have on my show are already retired.

13:19

But the couple that I've brought on that are still

13:21

competing, you know, they're just like,

13:23

my job like, once you get to the pro level,

13:25

like, our job is not to stop Think

13:27

about stopping. You have to think about continuing

13:30

to perform. And Dr.

13:32

P. You and I have talked about this extensively,

13:34

but what makes

13:36

it so hard in terms of, you know,

13:39

athletes having to just engage in that

13:41

process of, like, now I have to think

13:42

about retiring. Well,

13:44

two things that have really struck me over

13:46

the many

13:46

many years I've been doing this and working with

13:49

athletes at all levels. Both pro

13:51

and collegiate The first is that it

13:53

becomes the fundamental part of their

13:55

identity. And they have beensteeped

13:58

into

13:59

practice

13:59

workouts, game, travel, their

14:02

camaraderie that teaches whole system

14:04

that people know them by the

14:07

sport that they play.

14:08

And over the years, and if they have

14:11

some celebrity and and

14:13

really exposure, they've

14:15

become name recognition.

14:18

And so when that ends,

14:20

sometimes it ends abruptly through

14:22

injuries, for example. But even a phased

14:24

out retirement, their

14:26

identity is latched on, and

14:28

that's when they start using the word,

14:30

what do I do next?

14:33

And

14:33

the word next jacks

14:35

their anxiety up exponentially.

14:37

But the other thing that I

14:39

really have discovered I

14:42

don't

14:42

know any athlete at any level,

14:45

including

14:45

hall of favors. When

14:47

they were kids, the biggest thing

14:49

they they did was free.

14:51

It didn't cause travel. It didn't cause

14:53

tuition. It didn't cause sponsorships

14:56

with

14:56

dreaming. I

14:58

work a lot with the NBA and

15:00

a lot of the Hoopers, dribble

15:03

to school with their right hand, dribble at home with

15:05

their left. Slap at their

15:07

basketball. We're in the neighborhood

15:09

gyms on the community

15:11

playgrounds in their backyard.

15:13

Imagining that they were

15:15

taking that game when he shot in game

15:17

seven and here in the roar of the crowd

15:19

and and really living that

15:22

experience. And

15:23

they kept that through

15:25

school, through hardships, through whatever.

15:28

And what I have found out

15:30

is that when athletes get to be

15:33

collegiate, get to be Olympians. They

15:35

stop dreaming. Mhmm. And

15:38

part of it, when you stop dreaming,

15:40

and your identity has been attached to the

15:42

thing you were doing, that's

15:44

the challenge. So I

15:46

have a simple recommendation for a lot of

15:48

athletes. Start dreaming like you did

15:50

when you were four and five years old.

15:53

Even though you're twenty, thirty, what do you

15:55

wanna be doing when you're fifty? And

15:58

just have the freedom to see

15:59

anything you want.

16:01

Unabashedly, this is what I'm

16:03

going to do and just

16:05

see it. Because all of that comes into

16:07

a principle that I'll end with.

16:09

There's a clear principle in psychology

16:12

called say believe behave. When

16:14

you say something to yourself

16:17

often enough,

16:18

irrespective of what you're saying is true

16:20

or false, that's irrelevant. It's

16:23

repetition. When you say something to yourself

16:25

often enough, you begin to believe

16:27

it. And when

16:28

you believe something long enough, you begin

16:30

to behave as if it's true.

16:32

And when the kids were little in

16:34

dreaming, they were

16:36

feeding themselves information,

16:40

pictures, visuals, and

16:42

all

16:42

of that was recorded in their body, in

16:44

their DNA, if you will. And

16:46

as

16:46

they grew mature, they kept doing

16:48

that. But they stopped doing that

16:50

now. So I engage. I said, separate

16:53

yourself from your identity. You

16:55

aren't what you do. It

16:57

also happens that you do it well.

16:59

But the genius it takes to be an

17:02

athlete is the exact same genius it takes to

17:04

do anything else you want. To really

17:06

reengage that gene to

17:08

dream, and half

17:10

the struggle will be finished.

17:12

That

17:12

is so true. I think as

17:15

adults, we just kinda turn off

17:17

that switch. And to

17:19

achieve the athletic dream, it takes a

17:21

lot of time and effort And by the time you kind

17:23

of get to adolescent late

17:25

adolescence, young adulthood,

17:27

you're, you know, you're you're

17:29

still working on that athletic dream and you're still going,

17:31

you know, into your late twenties. But,

17:34

you know, for either one

17:36

of you, I mean, there's so much to unpack on

17:38

what Dr. P. Just mentioned, but

17:40

what aspects of anything that he just

17:42

talked about right now resonates

17:43

with

17:45

you? I think the dreaming

17:46

part, you know, growing

17:49

up for me early on,

17:51

softball wasn't in the Olympic

17:53

So I didn't have that dream. And then when it was

17:55

there, it was like, okay, that's something I

17:57

should latch onto. And going

17:59

to

17:59

the university that I did, they helped me

18:02

kind of align my goals with

18:04

getting to the Olympics. But

18:06

once I was there, the

18:08

pressure became the production

18:10

part in you know, I

18:12

tell my athletes all the time, I didn't

18:14

truly enjoy my experience in

18:16

two thousand eight because

18:18

I reached being an Olympic in two the Olympics

18:21

in two thousand four, but I I

18:23

was a role player.

18:25

So I didn't have quite the role that I wanted.

18:27

And then in two thousand eight, I

18:29

started, but I was so

18:31

caught up and this is my last

18:33

time around how am I gonna end? I'm not performing

18:35

the way that I want to, that

18:37

I didn't enjoy just being

18:40

there. And even my teammates, you know, we came home with

18:42

the silver.

18:43

Mhmm. We had a goal

18:44

in four. So even just enjoying

18:48

meddling was a whole different.

18:50

Like, we we didn't allow ourselves to

18:52

enjoy it the way that we should have. How

18:54

many people left there without even

18:56

having a metal, and we just we put this added pressure

18:58

in. So it wasn't even I

19:00

reached my goal. It

19:02

was almost kind

19:04

of just this negativity that I put around

19:07

myself because I it

19:10

wasn't that I wasn't dreaming.

19:12

I put too much pressure on it. And kind

19:14

of, I didn't I didn't approach it the way that

19:16

I should have as the DNA

19:18

of my entire life.

19:21

Can I slip something in here? Because I I

19:23

don't want the audience to mess something to

19:25

try saying. What she's reporting

19:28

and I appreciate your is

19:30

that I really wasn't fully available to

19:32

to play soft, but

19:35

she meddled. I can't

19:37

begin to imagine. What she

19:39

would have accomplished has she been fully

19:41

available? What you're really

19:43

looking at is genius

19:45

as

19:45

an athlete to be able to deliver

19:47

at Olympic caliber level,

19:49

not given that you're all and worried

19:52

about all sorts of other stuff. And

19:54

that's the strength that's hidden

19:56

that is still there. And wherever

19:58

she goes in her career,

20:00

that genius potential has

20:02

to be

20:03

debited. Available twenty 473

20:05

sixty five. Yeah,

20:07

I

20:07

mean, I think there's something to be said about

20:09

really learning how to live in the present moment.

20:11

I mean, we we do that as athletes,

20:14

but that same philosophy

20:16

has to be applied to just general

20:18

real life. Whether you're still trying to

20:20

pursue a professional career, coach,

20:23

mom, doctor P, all the work that you're

20:25

doing, even from me, you know, going through

20:27

the doctoral program. I mean, trying to I

20:29

always think about, like, I just need to graduate. I

20:31

just need to graduate. I just need the title, the

20:33

Ph. D. But it's not about that I've learned that

20:35

I really enjoy striving for me,

20:37

for my personality. I actually enjoy the

20:39

striving, not necessarily achieving

20:42

the goal. But Betsy, you know, just

20:44

hearing hearing this conversation, what's

20:46

coming up for you? Yeah. It's

20:48

a great reminder, like, dreaming

20:50

about the goal of the Olympics. And I thought about,

20:52

like, k. If I make it there, is that

20:55

gonna fulfill fulfill me? If I

20:57

don't make it there's how

20:59

am I gonna feel? So

21:00

just taking the time to be present like you

21:03

said and and everything I

21:05

do and not look too far ahead

21:07

is is huge and is a really good reminder because it

21:09

is about the journey. And

21:12

I I don't know if you watch that documentary, weight

21:14

of gold, with Michael Phelps. Oh,

21:16

yeah. And they talk about yeah. They wanna

21:18

go with metal, and they're going through

21:20

really challenging times depression and just

21:22

not feeling fulfilled in what they've

21:25

done. So I thought a lot about that and it's

21:27

been good for me to kinda hone in on

21:29

my why and why I'm competing

21:31

and why doing what I do every day, and

21:33

that helps me every single day

21:35

to wake up and

21:35

workout and stay present and do

21:38

everything I can to reach my goal,

21:40

but be fulfilled along the

21:42

way. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And, yeah, that documentary

21:44

is really powerful. I do think there's something

21:46

particular about o Olympians

21:48

and Olympic athletes. Their experience is

21:50

so different because it's four years,

21:52

you put in so much work as opposed to athletes that

21:54

are constantly playing, you know, a

21:56

hundred games, eighty games a

21:59

year. But, you know, I

22:01

think that This conversation,

22:04

you know, it's it's an interesting one to

22:06

have because we're talking to hopefully some

22:08

student student athletes out there

22:10

and yet we're also talking

22:12

about the end. I get

22:14

that. Like, it's it it feels

22:16

maybe grave, it feels emotional,

22:18

it feels comfortable for me as an athlete. I was like, I

22:20

don't want to hear this. It has nothing to do with me.

22:22

It has everything to do with you. And I

22:25

think that The thing that stands out

22:27

for me when we're having what we're talking

22:29

about right now, I think it's also about

22:31

asking yourself the question, what does

22:33

sports do for me? How does it

22:35

exist in my life, in my

22:37

relationship for me? You know, maybe

22:39

as an Asian American, as

22:41

a woman of color, maybe somebody

22:43

who was pet peeve kind of felt like I never

22:45

really knew where I fit in. For me,

22:47

it made me feel just kind of accepted and

22:49

and to have in a community. So when

22:51

I talk about that coach for

22:54

you, what has what does sport

22:56

represent for you? When

22:58

you just said that it really

23:01

resonated with me being biracial

23:03

and not

23:05

really sure there

23:06

won a lot of people in

23:09

my sport that look like

23:11

me growing up. Even my family, I'm

23:13

I'm kind of the direct mix of

23:16

both. Like, I don't really look like anyone else,

23:18

so it gave me somewhere to

23:20

fit in It gave me

23:22

focus and taught me hard work

23:24

and just building relationships.

23:26

I think some of my closest

23:28

friends came from sports.

23:31

So I just I

23:33

really I was I've been able to travel

23:35

the world and see different things and

23:37

just be more open minded and

23:40

I I so thankful that I had those

23:42

opportunities, but it

23:43

is. I

23:44

mean, even for me, I haven't completely

23:47

transitioned out of sport. I mean,

23:49

I just I don't know if it's

23:51

because I didn't wanna see what the real world

23:53

looked like. Uh-huh. And, you

23:55

know, I just I loved it so much. So

23:57

being able to still tap

23:59

into that competitiveness and and

24:01

learning the game and teaching the game. It

24:03

just still fulfills me

24:05

so much. Dr. P.

24:07

I'm sure you have plenty to say about this topic.

24:09

Well, I do. And one of the things I'd

24:11

like to suggest. You

24:14

asked Prem, what does a sport do

24:17

for you? And I

24:19

think that's a

24:19

very valid question because there's a lot

24:22

of emotional nourishment and other sources of

24:24

nourishment that you get friendships, collegiality,

24:26

and so forth. Feeling

24:27

accomplished, mastering at

24:30

certain skills, But if

24:32

I miss myself wondering what difference athletes' lives

24:34

would make, if they

24:37

ask a different version of that

24:39

question. Not was a

24:41

sport do for me, but what do I

24:43

do for the sport? Because

24:45

then that shifts

24:47

and opens a portal of

24:49

looking inside of you, which

24:52

I think is important. Betsi

24:54

reminds me in in that video which

24:56

is very, very powerful. The following

24:59

mantra, which I

25:01

I share with athletes all the time, and one

25:03

of the courses I teach here is in Trauma

25:06

Psychology. But

25:07

the mantra I asked my students to memorize.

25:10

And

25:11

memorize is defined as

25:13

not to recall remember or

25:15

to regurgitate, the goal of memorizing is to

25:18

forget. Forget me and

25:20

you

25:20

get so deeply ingrained in your spirit. You

25:22

don't give it a second thought.

25:25

And the mantra that came up me as I was listening to

25:28

Betsy former

25:28

student by the way is

25:32

Whenever

25:32

and wherever shadows have

25:34

been cast, it must

25:36

be that there's light nearby.

25:39

But you can't cast shadows without light.

25:42

So even though we are in dark spaces and

25:44

things get heavy and burdensome, There

25:47

has

25:47

to be light nearby and the

25:49

light about which I speak is inside each

25:52

athlete,

25:52

and it is inside the people they surround

25:55

themselves with. Allow into their inner circle

25:57

so

25:57

that cumulative

25:59

illuminance

26:00

really

26:02

really

26:02

is enough light to

26:05

shine on a road to better days.

26:07

And

26:07

so there's a hidden genius

26:10

even

26:10

in tragedy. There's a a

26:12

treasure in every Every

26:14

stumbly block can be turned into a stepping

26:16

stone in getting that sort

26:18

of

26:18

mindset of to

26:20

navigate the journeys

26:21

and the challenges that we all face. I'm

26:24

gonna take one of

26:25

your classes. Can I come back to LMU?

26:27

I know I'm at Fortum. I wonder if there's a way

26:29

that I can just you know, pop in

26:31

and Well, you're

26:32

in the judgment system so we can work something

26:34

out. Yes. We can.

26:35

Yes. We can. We got Zoom. We got virtual

26:37

and tele Yeah. Tele

26:40

academic systems. In

26:42

all seriousness though, Betsy, when you're

26:44

listening to this to this part

26:46

of the conversation, have you

26:48

ever thought about what sport does

26:51

for you or vice versa what

26:52

you do for sport. Yeah.

26:56

I think

26:57

it kinda taps into the why that I talked

26:59

about earlier. And just honing in

27:01

on that for me, it's like inspiring young,

27:04

athletes, young, female athletes

27:06

and showing them that they can be a mom

27:08

and still pursue athletics

27:10

and pursue their dreams. And

27:13

I have an almost two year old, so that

27:16

is, you know, challenging that

27:18

too.

27:18

But also Laura. Yeah. Shout out of her.

27:20

And then for

27:23

me, like, the

27:23

why for me is, like,

27:25

I'd bring my my dad passed away before

27:27

I was born so I never met him. And

27:30

now when I play and

27:32

compete, It just brings out traits and qualities

27:34

of his that I never knew that he

27:36

had until, like, my family tells me stories,

27:38

so that's kinda what sport does for

27:40

me.

27:41

Yeah. That's amazing. And

27:43

so we so we really begin to

27:45

figure out that

27:48

why, why we do things. And hopefully,

27:50

when we're engaging in and

27:52

along the way, maybe it's

27:54

not just about softball and

27:56

volleyball and tennis and basketball,

27:58

but it is just the bigger

27:59

part of, you know, you

28:00

just talked about, you know,

28:03

giving back. It's really about giving back. And

28:05

for me, I've figured out that my

28:07

North Star is really just having an impact

28:09

and just helping people. That's been

28:11

that's been that is now my North Star.

28:13

So you know, coach for you

28:15

and Betsy, actually all three of us,

28:17

you know, our why, as I would imagine, I

28:19

I don't wanna speak for the both of you, but we

28:21

are all mothers and,

28:24

you know, with amazing kids.

28:27

So what is that process like?

28:29

What should the process? What could it

28:31

be for student athletes when they're trying to

28:33

figure out once sport is no

28:35

longer there, well, what's my what's my

28:38

why now?

28:39

What's my

28:40

purpose? I

28:42

think that it's

28:45

forever evolving. Right? When I first

28:47

got into coaching, it was because I

28:49

was still playing and I wanted to

28:51

be around a game. And selfishly, it was

28:53

I can kind of still do my thing but

28:55

have a job and kind of figure out, is

28:57

this what I wanna do? And then

28:59

it became I I wanna be

29:02

around the sport. I still wanna be

29:04

competitive and go. And as I've

29:06

matured and had different

29:08

relationships with my players. It's

29:10

been, I wanna make it impact. And, you

29:12

know, you talked about

29:14

it of you can be a

29:16

mom and still follow your dreams

29:17

or do something that

29:20

you

29:20

thought you couldn't do before and

29:22

still create

29:24

a family. I think

29:27

that just

29:28

thinking about

29:36

Everything that

29:36

you love about the sport competing and

29:38

building relationships, it it

29:41

translates. It's you

29:43

know, I think Dr. P. Talked about it.

29:45

It's being in the real world

29:47

and and being a person. Everything

29:50

can translate whatever you like about

29:52

sport, that's what you can continue

29:54

to develop as you

29:58

finish and retire and kind of continue to

29:59

grow. to grow Yeah.

30:02

You know,

30:03

the complicated aspect

30:05

about that is that you're you're exactly

30:08

right. All of the skills that we learn

30:10

in sports is

30:12

totally transferable. And

30:14

if anything, it positions

30:17

student athletes within the

30:19

real world and within the

30:21

workforce in a certainly

30:23

much more advantageous way

30:26

because it's like, wow, leadership, dedication,

30:30

ability to to juggle and balance

30:32

time, and all these other be a team

30:34

player. The thing that I have

30:36

been searching for, and Dr. P. I'm gonna go to

30:38

you next. I I haven't found a lot of

30:40

I I found some answers.

30:42

But one question that I've often asked

30:44

is why do some of these skills not

30:47

transfer? Because we've seen a lot of

30:49

athletes that make

30:51

that transition from sport and

30:53

just kinda fall through the

30:55

cracks and things don't really, it

30:57

doesn't go smoothly. And it's like, wow,

30:59

here's this amazing athlete who was

31:01

a champion their respective sport.

31:03

So what's what's happening? So doctor

31:05

Peay, what what have you found about that? Well,

31:07

I

31:07

have a couple of reactions to that one. I still think

31:09

that they are champions. they are taking

31:11

a pause. They are taking a moment to

31:14

reflect. And I think that that's so

31:16

important. They are taking a

31:18

moment to pause and reflecting ways that

31:20

don't seem okay or normal,

31:22

but I think we have to not judge

31:24

and hate on them. It's where they

31:26

need to be at that particular moment.

31:28

But also, excuse

31:31

me, invited the

31:32

audience to consider certainly

31:35

athletes. You raise a good question. Again,

31:37

what does what skill sets does

31:39

the sport give you that you can then

31:42

apply? If

31:43

you reverse that, What skills

31:46

this did you bring to the

31:48

sport that you can apply to

31:50

the sport? So you were already equipped

31:52

in my opinion. With

31:55

skill sets, with ways of thinking, ways

31:57

of negotiating, that apply

31:59

to the

31:59

sport you are now participating. And

32:02

so it's always a give and take, but

32:04

you brought

32:05

skills to the sport long before the sport

32:07

gave you skills. And I keep

32:09

focusing

32:09

on that because I really

32:12

truly believe in my heart, and I

32:15

can't be unconvinced. I

32:18

personally don't endorse

32:21

the notion. Losing confidence,

32:24

motivation, self esteem, or will pop.

32:26

Because when you I hear that, I talk

32:28

about we teach it, I was taught

32:30

that So I get all of that language. But when you

32:32

look at the fundamental premise of just

32:34

those concepts, we are

32:37

are

32:37

told and

32:39

brainwashed that

32:40

you are walking around, efficient, that

32:42

you have a gap to

32:45

fill, have to come up to speed,

32:47

even develop a language. puts

32:50

pressure on you. And while I

32:52

make sense, is

32:54

that really true? I have a

32:56

belief that we have innate genius

32:58

talent motivation. We

32:59

don't often use it. We don't tap into

33:02

it, but it's

33:02

there to be tapped into. And

33:04

so

33:04

I always think that the questions that

33:07

people ask aren't

33:09

out there. The questions,

33:10

the answers are here.

33:13

And I

33:13

think when we start engaging

33:16

in self reflection, And

33:18

again, another mantra is when

33:20

a person will never see their reflection

33:22

in running water. It was only

33:24

when the water is still, whether reflected

33:27

image begin to emerge. And really

33:29

listening to the stillness.

33:32

And related to

33:32

that, if the audience spells out the

33:35

word, listen And

33:38

I

33:38

say that the key

33:40

to doing, to maximally doing

33:42

with that word spells. Is

33:44

contained in

33:44

those six letters. Well,

33:47

if you move those letters around, you come up with

33:49

the word silent. So

33:51

the best way to listen and to honor the

33:54

genius that you have in daily

33:56

is

33:56

to be silent and don't

33:58

go after the answers,

33:59

allow the answers to come to you. I

34:02

really do believe that. In fact, the last

34:05

analogy I give is out of a light

34:07

bulb. If you're in a

34:07

dark room and you flick the

34:09

switch up and the light comes on. If

34:12

I ask you, why is there a light

34:14

now in

34:16

the room? Two first answers, which are wrong, but

34:18

sound correct. Well, doctor

34:20

Pee, you cut the switch on. And

34:22

when I say

34:23

that's not correct, They

34:26

scratch their head and say, well,

34:28

I know where you're going.

34:29

Its electricity isn't it? I

34:31

said, that's true too.

34:33

But that's not the answer. That

34:34

in order for there now to be light in the room. The

34:37

light bulb had already been

34:39

in the socket. Because

34:41

if I took the

34:42

socket, the light bulb out of the socket and

34:44

flick the switch up and we can verify electrical current,

34:46

you'd still be in the dark.

34:48

So when you have a light

34:49

bulb moment that has to me that you are already

34:51

prewired with that genius, nothing

34:54

came to

34:55

you, you discovered,

34:56

that which you already possessed.

34:58

Because life for me

35:00

is about discovering not

35:02

going after

35:02

something that you already have.

35:05

Yeah.

35:05

It's a concept as

35:07

you beautifully said, that it's just

35:10

it's just kind of within us. Right? Those

35:12

answers that inner beauty,

35:14

that inner strength, that inner

35:16

power that

35:17

inner insight is always going to

35:20

be in us. It's

35:22

all about just sitting still, being

35:24

able to sit in the darkness

35:26

and moments, and ask us to

35:28

you too, coach and Betsy

35:30

is, what kinds of questions

35:32

what kinds of questions should

35:35

we be asking ourselves? What kinds of questions should

35:37

all of these student athletes sitting

35:40

out here in the audience

35:42

right now? What is

35:44

going to help them

35:48

really capitalize on their

35:52

athletic experience? And is going to give them that y in the

35:54

next

35:55

chapter. I really like what you said

35:57

about just

35:57

sitting

35:58

that about sitting

35:59

in silence and taking time. I think it's really hard as a

36:02

student athlete. You're running from class

36:04

to practice.

36:06

Back to class and

36:08

doing homework all the time. And I know

36:10

I struggled with that as an athlete. And

36:12

even as a coach, when I was

36:14

I was an

36:15

athlete, a coach, And

36:16

I was running from place to place, and I talked to my sports psychologist. And

36:18

he's like, can you just set a timer

36:20

for one minute and just sit there

36:24

and silence? And that was really hard. Yeah. Just to sit there and not just

36:26

be present and not think about what was next.

36:28

And I think that's a huge part of being

36:30

a student athlete has taken that time to reflect

36:34

and Maybe

36:35

it's journaling after practice or just taking one minute,

36:37

five minutes, probably

36:38

more than that. But just

36:40

to be with yourself and Yeah.

36:44

To ask questions, maybe it's the dream. Like,

36:46

what do I want my life

36:48

to look like?

36:49

What do I want next? Not

36:52

to put pressure on them, but just to, like, dream so

36:54

you

36:54

can be present in what you do and

36:56

that'd be a good place

36:58

to start, but there's just a lot of,

37:00

like, questions, you'll you'll

37:02

come in and ask yourself when when you're

37:04

there in silence and taking time to reflect.

37:07

Yeah. Yeah. Coach?

37:08

So many things are

37:10

going through my mind right now. I think everything

37:12

that Betsi just shared is amazing. I

37:15

mean, we try to give our players

37:18

time to journal

37:20

time to reflect. We did

37:22

goal setting books this year.

37:25

You do that during practice, the journaling? So

37:27

we do we do

37:30

post games or post practice taking

37:32

time to reflect on

37:34

themselves. We do a a little

37:36

shout out session after practice called

37:38

little debs of, you know, what did a

37:40

teammate do well today? And not just

37:42

the physical, but the we talk about our core

37:44

values and more of the

37:46

process and realizing that someone came out

37:48

here with a goal today and they've really set out to

37:50

work on

37:52

it they struggled and what was their mindset, and not just that

37:54

they achieved the goal,

37:56

but what did it

37:58

look like getting to that

37:59

point. Right? Yeah. So

38:02

it's it is. It's more

38:04

of we try to at least once a

38:06

year remind them send a thank you letter.

38:08

Someone that you're grateful for that

38:10

got you to this point. It's

38:12

hard to stay in that

38:14

negative state and be grateful Right? So

38:16

just remembering, you didn't do it by yourself. You're

38:19

a huge part of it, but people are

38:21

here supporting you and how can

38:23

you continue to just

38:25

be

38:25

happy. And it's okay to

38:27

change your mind, and it is okay

38:29

to be happy. And, you know, sometimes

38:31

our our players talk

38:33

about goal setting. If I wanna be an all American,

38:35

I'm being selfish, and it's that

38:37

okay. It it's a fine line

38:40

being selfish or having goals

38:42

and wanting to be better for

38:44

yourselves or make a name for yourself that's

38:46

not selfish, but how you get about

38:48

there and who you take with you along the way.

38:50

So there's so many things

38:52

that they hopefully will

38:54

take

38:54

into account as they're going through

38:56

their experiences, but right, reflecting and and

38:58

understanding what makes me happy at the

39:01

end of the day tapping into those things. By

39:03

the way, that

39:04

is such a team sport

39:07

athlete mindset because

39:09

I feel like individual athletes,

39:12

like myself, I'd be like, yeah, you just be

39:14

selfish. Like, that's what you're supposed to do,

39:16

you know, because it's a very different

39:18

dynamic and I could go off a

39:20

totally different tangent. But one thing that I'm actually really fascinated about

39:22

and one thing that my dissertation

39:26

may focus on a little bit is just the different experiences

39:28

between individual sport athletes and team

39:30

sport athletes. And I've happened

39:32

to stumble across a few

39:34

studies that actually indicate that

39:36

individual sport athletes are at a greater

39:38

risk for mental health issues and symptoms

39:40

and disorders. Not only

39:42

compared to team sport athletes, but

39:44

even to non athletes as well.

39:46

So obviously, that literature is still kind of

39:48

evolving, but that certainly peaks my

39:50

interest. But My gosh, all

39:52

of you bring up such amazing points, and it's

39:54

just fascinating to hear how

39:56

our inner conversations, our

39:58

self talk, is so different. That's the beauty of it. I

40:00

think, you know, the first question that

40:02

stands out in my

40:04

mind that

40:05

I when I'm

40:08

working with clients

40:08

and also when I'm mentoring

40:12

athletes, The first question that

40:14

I asked them to ask themselves is,

40:16

who are you? Not only beyond sport, but

40:18

who are you besides all of these achievements

40:22

and accomplishments? Because I think, you know, once you get to a certain level, you

40:24

just you that becomes a huge part of your

40:26

identity. You know, it's so

40:28

attached to what we do. And

40:30

again, it's like detaching that part,

40:32

you know. And I've talked about this

40:34

before publicly, but obviously I'm a big

40:36

proponent of of counseling and

40:38

therapy. And when I was sitting in the

40:40

client chair with my therapist at thirty

40:42

one years old, and she said, okay.

40:44

Well, who

40:46

is PRIM? Beyond

40:46

the grades and beyond tennis and beyond the achievements.

40:49

And I literally

40:50

just I

40:53

sat there in silence and I started,

40:55

I just broke down. Because I

40:58

knew that at thirty

41:00

one years old because I didn't have an answer,

41:02

I knew

41:03

that my lack

41:04

of answer was the answer to all of the

41:06

issues and struggles that I was going through.

41:09

But

41:09

the identity part Dr. P.

41:11

Is such a complicated aspect of this, is

41:13

it not?

41:14

Well, it's very complicated,

41:16

and I have found in years of practice

41:18

that the question who am I forces you to look outside and

41:21

attack? Am I this? Am I

41:23

that? Am I the other? Well,

41:25

that fits well.

41:26

It only fits for so long. Well, maybe this

41:28

is a better fit and so you're always going out

41:32

outside. It's it's exactly

41:34

like putting on a

41:36

costume. I like how this

41:37

looks and feels, but tomorrow

41:39

is yesterday's news.

41:42

And while I understand that and support question,

41:44

I still go back to the

41:46

basics. What is it you

41:48

want to discover about yourself?

41:51

What is your Star goal? You mentioned long time

41:54

ago. mentioned something

41:56

very beautifully that I

41:58

want the audience

41:59

to really focus

42:01

on. She has an exercise for her

42:02

athletes where they sort of

42:05

an act of

42:06

kindness

42:08

exercised, would you write a letter to somebody who

42:11

hoped you along the

42:13

way? What that does

42:15

in its simplicity It

42:18

forces the athlete out of their own

42:20

head, and it allows them

42:22

to serve others.

42:24

And when you can do that, The

42:26

best way to find yourself is

42:29

to lose yourself in the

42:31

service of others, and you

42:33

find it there not

42:35

always that person or that

42:38

job or that career. In fact, I

42:40

was best with a

42:40

mentor who taught us one thing if you're looking

42:42

for a job after you finish. A

42:45

job is an

42:46

acronym for just over broke.

42:48

Everybody get a job, but

42:50

a career is an

42:51

expression of who

42:54

you are. If you express

42:56

who you are, you have to discover who

42:58

that is. And

43:00

academics, relationships,

43:02

sport. All of those

43:03

are opportunities to stimulate out of you that

43:05

which you already have. So I

43:08

we are all on a journey

43:10

of Discover. And

43:11

it's in fact, Mark Twain was I

43:14

think credited with saying

43:16

the two

43:16

most important days in a perfect

43:19

person's life. Of a day they're born, and

43:21

a day they find

43:23

out why.

43:24

It's about purpose. And

43:27

and it Last

43:28

thing I'll just with when

43:30

I began this role is the director of

43:33

the mental health and wellness program

43:35

for the Players Association. A

43:38

journalist asked me, well,

43:39

well, doctor B. How are you going to start something

43:41

from scratch? You're already teaching,

43:43

you

43:43

publish, you have a private practice

43:45

at the

43:48

time? You consult, how

43:48

are you going to do yet this

43:51

thing from scratch? And I looked at

43:53

her and without

43:54

sounding

43:56

arrogant, I said quite easily. One, because I dreamed

43:58

about it.

43:59

My wife and I had conversations

44:01

fifteen years before. If

44:04

any

44:04

professional system ever decided to have a mental health

44:06

and wellness programmable to look like. So

44:09

we started looking

44:10

at it in that

44:12

way. And that was so easy, but then I gave her

44:14

the following analogy. I said,

44:16

if you were to come

44:17

to our home

44:20

for dinner, My wife and I

44:22

would

44:22

serve you a plate of food

44:24

that probably had four items on it.

44:26

Issuer chicken,

44:27

some pasta rice,

44:30

vegetable of some kind, but also

44:32

dinner roll. So four things that

44:34

smell different, look different, taste different, and

44:38

nourish different. But those

44:39

four items are like, I and my

44:42

colleagues have had in our careers,

44:44

teach, publish,

44:44

old private practice. Beginning

44:47

back

44:47

to the dinner, Even

44:49

though there are four items that

44:51

looks mailtastes and mirrors differently, the

44:53

common denominator is that they're

44:55

on one plate. And

44:57

so everything that I have done and

44:59

my colleagues have done is on

45:01

one plate and that

45:03

plate is serving others. So

45:05

my job, my

45:08

career, it's

45:08

been one, serve another.

45:10

So when I'm teaching

45:12

writing, consulting, you do

45:14

whatever, in service to

45:16

others. So I'm

45:16

blessed happening with one career in it. And

45:18

I can lock into that.

45:20

i like into that Then

45:23

no matter what

45:23

I do, that comes through, and I feel

45:25

that I can do multiple

45:27

things that you

45:29

lock into So again, it's finding it in

45:31

here at all side. Mhmm.

45:33

Two parts. Hopefully, I don't

45:36

forget them as I'm

45:38

talking. But when

45:40

you were when you were talking

45:41

about when when whoever that was

45:43

that that asked you, it's like, okay, you're

45:45

starting this mental health

45:47

program from scratch for the NBPA.

45:50

Do you Like,

45:52

it's really the first of its kind or one

45:54

of the first of its kind. I remember

45:56

when you and I spoke a

45:58

few years ago and you came on my show, we thought I had

45:59

this long conversation two and a half

46:02

hours. And I was I

46:06

had not I don't think I had not decided on going and getting my

46:08

PhD just yet, but I was so fascinated.

46:10

The idea is like, oh my god. This is

46:12

amazing a mental health program

46:14

at the

46:16

level. And I said, I remember asking you Dr. P. But

46:18

do you know are

46:21

there foundational? Are

46:24

there pillars? That are going to make a mental, like, how do

46:26

you know what pieces come

46:28

together to make it a

46:30

successful and effective one? And you are

46:32

like, yeah. But

46:34

now knowing the context of you have dreamt about this

46:36

and thought about this for so long, it really makes

46:38

sense. And the other part is just about

46:42

the emotional nourishment. So I really wanna connect the dots because people that are

46:44

listening to this conversation, especially the student

46:46

athletes, they're like, oh my gosh. I'm just talking about the

46:48

end of retirement and

46:50

identity. Like, does this really have to

46:52

do with me and all this other stuff? I mean,

46:54

basically, it boils down to the intersection

46:56

of how sports influences us

46:58

as people and how our

47:00

personal development is deeply intertwined. It interacts

47:02

with our athletic experience. And

47:04

then tying it back to the

47:08

LG transparent conversations, the focus on mental health.

47:10

So I wanna go around the

47:12

table. How does this

47:14

conversation connect

47:17

to the topic of student athlete

47:19

mental health or just athlete mental

47:21

sports and mental health in general.

47:24

That's it.

47:24

Can I go to you first? Yeah. I

47:26

mean,

47:26

it's all about that. I

47:29

think it's awesome that there are

47:31

resources built in for student

47:34

athletes to c

47:35

sports psychologist or therapist on

47:37

campus for free. And I wish I would have

47:39

taken advantage of that when I was

47:42

here. It just feels scary. It

47:44

feels like maybe not normal. And I feel like it's becoming more

47:46

normalized that, like, it's okay to

47:48

go talk to

47:50

someone and just get

47:52

your mind right because that's what's way more

47:54

important than your sport. Even

47:56

though when you're living in your sport

47:58

and you're wanting to get the wins. Like, it feels like that's all

47:59

that matters. Like, there's so much

48:02

more to that than just the

48:04

wins. So just

48:05

take time for yourself. I

48:07

can't remember what the actual question was.

48:10

No. You you hit it. It was really Sorry.

48:12

It was really about just what how

48:14

our conversation is connected to just

48:17

mental health in general and really connecting

48:19

the dots. And and you answered it

48:21

perfectly. And you get there's no wrong answer.

48:23

That's for sure. Yeah. I just think

48:26

it's important for these student athletes to know

48:28

that, like, what

48:28

you're learning now goes beyond the

48:30

sport. And, yeah, again, it's hard to

48:33

see in moment, but take advantage of those resources.

48:35

And I'm still using skills and tools that

48:37

I learned in college now in my

48:39

life as a mom, as my in my

48:41

life as an athlete. And

48:43

those tools go a long

48:45

way. How

48:45

about you, How does this conversation

48:48

connect with just athlete, mental health,

48:50

and well-being? Yeah. I what what comes to mind

48:52

for me is,

48:54

you know, they're setting the base. So right now,

48:56

sport is kind of

48:58

what everything is revolving around and

49:01

later it could be, you know, being

49:03

a spouse or

49:04

your

49:05

career, not just the job.

49:08

Right? But it's finding balance in everything that you're doing

49:10

and finding time for

49:12

yourself and not being afraid

49:14

to ask

49:16

for help or being an advocate for yourself. And speaking when

49:18

you need something, you know,

49:20

again, whether it's from your spouse

49:24

or

49:25

finding time for

49:27

your kids because I know, you know,

49:29

balancing now for them of because I

49:31

have practice and now I have weights and we

49:33

have conditioning and I have tutoring, and now I

49:36

have Steady Hall. I mean, as a

49:38

mom, I'm thinking, oh, we gotta get to

49:40

basketball practice. We gotta get to dance

49:42

class, and we're going every wear and sometimes

49:44

I need to slow down and find a day for

49:46

myself or just ask

49:48

for help from either a family member

49:50

or friend and there's so many resources

49:52

people out there that want to help you. I

49:54

think we just forget about that sometimes

49:56

and think that as a

49:59

mom or

49:59

an athlete, we have to figure it

50:01

all out by ourselves. So it's

50:03

just it's practice. And right

50:05

now, again, the resources are

50:07

free and people are kind of pushing them on

50:09

you, but it's just gonna make

50:11

things a little

50:13

I

50:14

don't wanna say easier, but you have the

50:17

the

50:17

template for yourselves once you're you

50:19

leave college because now you

50:21

know how to be

50:23

an advocate for yourself and and try to figure

50:26

out how to just be

50:28

happy.

50:28

Yeah. The

50:29

aspect of asking for help

50:32

is really complicated

50:34

because I think in sports, to

50:36

achieve a

50:37

certain level, you kinda have to learn

50:39

how to rely on yourself and be

50:41

really dependent on just your own

50:44

abilities and and

50:46

your performance is reliant

50:48

on that. And yet, that

50:50

same mindset can get in the way

50:53

of

50:53

everything else that goes

50:54

on in real life. Like, we have to know how

50:57

to ask for help. Even just from

50:59

a business sense. Like, for me really

51:01

kind of evolving into this entrepreneurial

51:04

role, you cannot start a

51:06

business by yourself, like, you need

51:08

teammates, you need a good team of

51:10

people around you.

51:12

So talking about just let's talk

51:14

about I want to talk about just the general

51:17

topic of mental health. Because I

51:19

think it relates to this topic in the sense of like, okay, student athlete experience and mental

51:21

health and well-being beyond the college

51:23

experience. But mental health is obviously exist

51:25

on Spectrum. It

51:28

affects everybody in different ways. But this topic

51:31

that's changing. It's

51:33

kind of trendy

51:36

which it wasn't

51:37

several years ago. It is also at various points

51:38

kind of controversial. Some people love

51:41

to engage with it. Some people

51:44

want to engage in it in a way and capitalize on it because it seems

51:47

like a business opportunity. And other people

51:49

are kind of turned off And

51:52

so, Dr. Pete, how do

51:54

we push this conversation forward?

51:56

And maybe shift the I

51:59

don't know, conversation or perspective on just the general construct

52:01

of mental health. Several

52:04

suggestions come to my

52:04

one, I think, what you were doing

52:08

here with this transparent conversations. Even

52:10

the title

52:10

of this program is marketing

52:12

that is okay to be transparent.

52:17

Betsi think you have to have a forum and an

52:19

opportunity to talk about it. You have to

52:21

have real people with real lives

52:23

as real successes. Sharing

52:24

and feeling comfortable, sharing their

52:27

own ability. And often if

52:29

you listen enough, you start hearing

52:31

things that you don't

52:33

pay attention to. I I wanted to

52:35

book some of the he said that really

52:37

touch me.

52:39

She as

52:41

a gifted athlete has put

52:43

into work,

52:44

but

52:45

she called on her dad who she

52:48

never knew.

52:49

Well, that's part

52:51

of her psychology, that's part

52:53

of her mental health. The

52:56

phrase

52:56

we actually use now is your mental

52:58

health is your mental wealth. That's

53:00

part of her

53:01

wealth. That legacy. Never

53:04

even knew she had that sort of wellness fund

53:06

in her bank account,

53:08

in her emotional bank account. But

53:10

through her participation

53:11

in this it's coming

53:14

out But part of why it's it's difficult to

53:17

I'm I'm not convinced. Let

53:19

me back up. I'm not

53:22

convinced that it's difficult to ask for

53:24

help. Mhmm. I think

53:26

people don't ask for help for self protective reasons. I

53:28

mean, if real we live in

53:30

a system of inequity and structural separatists.

53:32

We do. Women do not

53:34

have the

53:35

same perks as guys. When

53:38

you

53:39

throw in race, class,

53:42

religion, a lot of markers

53:45

of personal identity. That's

53:48

when you start saying, do

53:50

you really trust everybody? The

53:52

answer is no. So not going

53:54

for help while it is costly it

53:56

is a self protectable. So I think we have to teach

53:59

people how to protect themselves differently.

54:02

One of the ways is

54:04

sharing the vulnerability, listening

54:06

to the stories because

54:07

everybody has one and and

54:10

really normalizing

54:12

this. But

54:13

I think you also have to invoke the history

54:15

of mental illness in the professions. Because

54:18

what

54:19

the professions promote historically

54:22

and even in contemporary times that

54:24

there's something

54:25

wrong with you, all of

54:28

psychiatry and

54:30

Let me

54:30

stick with psychology. When you understand

54:32

the

54:32

history of it, it's rooted

54:34

in models of pathology, which

54:37

they borrowed from medicine. There's

54:40

something wrong and deficient with

54:42

you. And we've been taught that for

54:44

generations. And then again, when

54:45

you put in the other markers

54:47

of identity, gender,

54:48

race, culture, etcetera. And you'll understand,

54:50

sexism is real, racism

54:53

is real, classes of

54:56

is real, We

54:57

don't like to talk about it. And in fact, we

54:59

are incentivized

54:59

to not talk about it. As we

55:01

are incentivized not to talk about

55:03

our real struggles, because

55:07

we want to excel, distinguish, be

55:09

liked. We abide by the unofficial rule

55:11

that we don't talk

55:14

about. Until we are

55:16

forced to such as when COVID hits.

55:19

And and that's where

55:21

people said to heck with this, I'm

55:23

gonna talk about it anyway. When

55:25

they start talking, everybody says I'm

55:27

glad you're talking because that's exactly what's been

55:29

in my heart all these years. So

55:31

having

55:31

a conversation being raw

55:34

and real, It's

55:34

important. Having diverse audiences. This

55:36

concept that you're

55:37

having here, I think, needs to

55:39

be transported regularly.

55:42

Because there's just so many

55:43

issues to talk about.

55:46

And at the same time, realize you're gonna be people

55:48

who don't wanna

55:50

hear it. As I said at

55:52

the top of the hour, the

55:54

systems of athletics, including

55:56

NCAA professional sports, have

55:58

not failed. At

55:59

addressing the mental health and wellness of student

56:02

athletes or

56:03

professional athletes. Those systems

56:05

have succeeded at

56:08

not addressing And it's

56:08

not until the voice of the players came up and said, I'm willing to

56:10

do this, but you gotta see

56:13

me, not

56:15

just my performance. So

56:17

let me

56:17

start voicing the person before the poor

56:20

person

56:20

before our performance.

56:23

marco Mantra. That's when

56:24

it goes, but we have to keep this

56:26

ship moved.

56:27

We have to you know, in order to sit sale,

56:30

you got entire settlement document. I

56:32

think we

56:32

untied ourselves, but we

56:35

keep sale. Yeah. I wanna stay on this because

56:37

I think this is really

56:39

important because you you and I

56:41

had multiple conversations, especially

56:43

over the past, two

56:45

months or so as we are launching this

56:48

project. And, you know, I

56:50

was leaning on

56:52

you as in terms of just, like, general advice,

56:54

consultation, navigating navigating

56:56

a lot of the barriers that we were experiencing,

56:58

and it goes back to the systemic

57:02

issues because there are people that are really

57:04

kind of scared about this

57:06

topic and maybe not necessarily scared

57:09

in the way Maybe they might be scared

57:11

in participating, but they're obviously scared about, you know, well, if you go

57:14

out there and you

57:16

go public, with something,

57:18

you could say something wrong, and

57:20

then I am held liable, or the school is

57:22

held liable, or the NCAA is held live, or

57:24

the coach, or the team, or

57:26

whoever, whatever. And I really do.

57:28

I I get that. I get that. For, you know, being a

57:30

member of the media, and then

57:32

now shifting over to I I understand that

57:34

dynamic. It's very complicated. And we all

57:36

do kind of have that responsibility and we want to protect

57:38

ourselves. But

57:38

at the same time, it is so

57:39

important to call

57:42

out those barriers

57:44

and those those

57:46

systemic issues. So,

57:48

Shiraya

57:48

Betsy, when

57:49

we're talking about some of those

57:51

systemic issues and with regards to just mental

57:53

health and sports,

57:54

in sport Does anything

57:55

come to mind for either one of

57:58

you? Yeah.

58:00

Definitely.

58:00

I think it it

58:02

it

58:02

is a hard dynamic because

58:05

like USA or the

58:07

Olympic Committee, like, they want

58:09

medals, they want performance,

58:12

and it's just

58:13

hard to juggle, like, you

58:14

know, putting the person first and not just focusing on performance.

58:18

And I think it

58:19

can start from, like, coaches

58:21

in the collegiate level. I think you're doing a great job.

58:24

And I work with John Mayer, with the

58:26

beach volleyball team, and he's

58:28

great about putting the person

58:30

first. Like, you matter more than your

58:32

performance. And I think that brings out the best

58:34

in the athletes too. They develop this

58:36

trust and they learn, like, It's okay I can

58:38

speak up if I'm not feeling my best

58:40

and you might need

58:42

like a mental health day. I know we had

58:44

an athlete in the past like she was

58:46

just overwhelmed and stressed and

58:48

had so much going on her life. And

58:51

John was just like,

58:53

let's, like, take the afternoon afternoon off.

58:55

And how often do you hear a coach say, like, take practice off?

58:58

It's hard. Like,

58:58

how I grew up? Like,

58:59

you don't miss practice.

59:02

You you're sick, you go to practice, you have something wrong, like,

59:04

you're going to practice. And I think

59:06

it's important

59:07

for coaches to listen to

59:09

their athletes and know that they need they need time

59:11

for themselves too. They're juggling a lot in college

59:14

and learning who they

59:16

are and listen

59:18

to them and put them first is way more

59:20

important and it's gonna help them

59:22

be better athletes

59:23

and be better

59:26

long term. Yeah.

59:27

yeah Thorea?

59:28

I was just even thinking

59:30

a more

59:32

simplistic idea of

59:35

asking my athletes, how

59:37

are you doing? Sometimes I

59:39

feel like

59:39

they don't even wanna give

59:41

me the full scale because

59:43

they're worried that I

59:45

may judge them, not even just everybody, but

59:48

just am I gonna lose my

59:50

spot? Because she thinks

59:52

I'm weak. Or I'm soft or just the way that they're right.

59:54

Like, my coach never told me

59:56

anything like that, but it was, oh, I can't show

59:58

weakness out

59:59

there. I'll I'm not gonna

1:00:02

get that starting spot again. And it's just it is.

1:00:04

It's built in so

1:00:05

much and

1:00:08

just trying to figure out and build that trust where people can

1:00:10

be authentic and be themselves

1:00:12

is just hopefully where

1:00:14

we can continue to build.

1:00:17

Yeah. So to really

1:00:19

kind of distill what we're

1:00:21

talking about right now. So, you know,

1:00:23

we talked about the systemic issues.

1:00:25

There's definitely a lot of barriers and a lot of

1:00:28

resistance, and it all starts up at

1:00:30

the top. You know, even if you're looking at

1:00:32

a professional

1:00:34

sports team, whether or not they have a psychologist on there, I mean, it really starts it

1:00:36

starts with the brass. Does it not? Doctor

1:00:38

P? And it really trickles down

1:00:41

It's the same thing in college sports. It's the same thing at a university

1:00:44

and institution. I I

1:00:46

really for me, personally, I really believe

1:00:48

that that the top

1:00:50

sets the tone in the culture. So that's

1:00:52

the systemic issues we're talking about that.

1:00:54

And then what you're talking about is also

1:00:56

like, the culture of sport. Those elements where,

1:00:59

you know, there a lot of athletes

1:01:01

I was

1:01:02

one of those athletes because it's like, I can't tell

1:01:06

my co that something's wrong. He's gonna he's

1:01:08

gonna think that, you know, I I'm not

1:01:10

deserving to play. Something's wrong

1:01:12

with me. I'm off. I'm

1:01:14

not gonna form all of

1:01:16

those other stuff. And so at the

1:01:18

other lower levels at that, you know,

1:01:20

really specific levels, it it

1:01:22

does create

1:01:24

a climate regardless of whatever these elements are of making

1:01:26

it really hard for athletes to come

1:01:28

out and talk. No, I

1:01:30

agree. And I think there's not going

1:01:31

to be a day anytime

1:01:34

soon. Of those barriers and and forces that

1:01:36

don't want to hear the truth are gone.

1:01:38

I think it's gonna be ever present.

1:01:41

I think those of that can be good news.

1:01:44

Because if you know what's out there,

1:01:46

you know how to

1:01:48

navigate it. And while a coach

1:01:50

very genuinely might say, hey, what's on

1:01:52

your mind and an athlete for some

1:01:54

protective reasons?

1:01:56

Hey, cool. If the

1:01:58

athlete is really struggling, he or she can

1:02:00

also then go get some

1:02:02

support elsewhere.

1:02:04

One of the things we're promoting this

1:02:06

year in the Players Association. With teams, we're

1:02:09

elevating the value, the

1:02:11

importance of self care. Getting

1:02:13

back to the study that you're about to engage

1:02:16

in, communal care

1:02:18

is as

1:02:19

important as self care. We

1:02:21

are our brother's keeper, our

1:02:23

sister's keeper, and

1:02:24

asking a simple question, an

1:02:27

act of kindness, doing things

1:02:29

with your community. Can't be healing,

1:02:31

can't bring out a sense of nurture, the

1:02:34

sense of I

1:02:36

am visible. I

1:02:38

do count. I do make a difference.

1:02:40

I matter. Those

1:02:42

sources of nourishment

1:02:45

over the course of time help build the

1:02:48

strength and the conversation. But but

1:02:50

I also want to get back to a point

1:02:52

that we we mentioned earlier

1:02:54

and it Another example I

1:02:56

had several years ago.

1:02:58

I was

1:02:58

out of basketball game looking at these guys

1:03:01

just hoop phenomena. I mean,

1:03:02

this one particular guy was just making stuff up in the air.

1:03:05

He's just like, where did

1:03:07

this come from? It

1:03:10

just

1:03:10

so happens, I knew this

1:03:12

athlete had some ID struggles.

1:03:16

Traumatic.

1:03:16

And a light bulb went on my

1:03:18

head, and I said, you know, if

1:03:20

this guy is hooping at

1:03:22

all the same

1:03:24

levels, Karen

1:03:25

around this kind of baggage.

1:03:27

I

1:03:27

can't begin to imagine how he

1:03:30

would excel,

1:03:31

read, to have a place to

1:03:34

lay his burden down and

1:03:36

begin

1:03:36

the process of healing.

1:03:38

He would see an exponential increase

1:03:40

in his delivery of support. An

1:03:42

exponential

1:03:42

added chemistry on the team

1:03:44

because every better say, what is he

1:03:47

doing? We would see

1:03:48

Other teams say, gosh, what are they doing?

1:03:51

Are they want to get into this? They

1:03:53

would say increased competition. So

1:03:55

fans are going, wow.

1:03:57

This is cool. Increased paraffinity of your

1:03:59

purchase.

1:03:59

So

1:04:00

everybody wins. You

1:04:04

invest in the mental

1:04:06

health

1:04:06

and wellness of athletes. But you have to

1:04:08

be able to see

1:04:10

or excuse

1:04:12

me that that's AAA

1:04:15

part

1:04:15

of the human experience that's okay. The

1:04:18

last thing I'll say, part of

1:04:19

the reason people don't

1:04:22

ask for. Like

1:04:22

coaches, like administrators. Because when you ask

1:04:25

somebody else to come clean, it's

1:04:28

sorta be

1:04:29

transparent. Mhmm. That's

1:04:32

code

1:04:32

for that asked

1:04:33

me to be transparent. Yeah. And

1:04:35

to sort of admit where I'm at in

1:04:38

this

1:04:39

conversation. And that's

1:04:41

a

1:04:41

place a lot of people don't wanna go.

1:04:44

You'd rather they

1:04:45

do it and

1:04:47

not I do. So

1:04:49

that's,

1:04:49

again, is always going to be that tension. But again, I think there's

1:04:51

ways around. Yeah.

1:04:53

I mean, this is what

1:04:54

it's all about. Like, trying to be

1:04:56

trying to

1:04:59

be really transparent. It is You

1:05:01

know, it's interesting because I think

1:05:03

that you can't You can't not

1:05:05

talk about the role social media plays because it is

1:05:08

just taking

1:05:11

over you

1:05:13

know, it changes how we connect with people.

1:05:15

It changes how we talk about issues.

1:05:17

It changes. I mean, if anything, it there's

1:05:20

a chance that It

1:05:22

amplifies community, and at the same

1:05:24

time, it really divides people even

1:05:26

more because

1:05:28

it it sometimes brings out the worst.

1:05:31

So how do we how do

1:05:33

we continue to push this conversation

1:05:36

forward? Just kind of all the things

1:05:38

that we just

1:05:40

talked about. In terms of maybe the systemic issues,

1:05:42

the culture of sport,

1:05:44

and teaching people how

1:05:46

to ask the tough

1:05:48

questions, reflect asking

1:05:50

for help. How do we push

1:05:52

this conversation forward? Not only for

1:05:54

mental health and student athletes, but

1:05:56

mental health within the sports.

1:05:59

warden

1:05:59

Landscape.

1:06:01

That's a

1:06:02

the big,

1:06:03

big ask. That's

1:06:07

it.

1:06:07

Go. Have all the answers. Right now, all of them. I mean, I think

1:06:09

it starts with

1:06:09

us in setting our

1:06:12

example and us taking

1:06:14

the

1:06:14

time to ask

1:06:16

how people are and being in a setting that

1:06:18

you can't ask and get a real answer, it's like

1:06:21

not just casually on the street. Like, how are you? Everyone's

1:06:23

gonna be like, fine. But getting into,

1:06:26

like, pineclothes

1:06:27

doors are just alone time with someone and just

1:06:30

asking, like, like, how are

1:06:32

you? Like, being real? And

1:06:34

just being transparent, like, on social

1:06:36

media, I'm guilty of just

1:06:38

showing, like, all the highlight reels and all the good things, but

1:06:40

there's so much hard and

1:06:42

challenging things in between that maybe I

1:06:44

don't think to film or

1:06:46

to capture but

1:06:48

just being real on social media ourselves can

1:06:50

play a big role. Yeah.

1:06:52

Tanya?

1:06:52

I mean,

1:06:53

I love what

1:06:54

you're doing obviously traveling in the

1:06:58

creating these conversations. I mean, even just

1:07:00

for me, myself preparing to

1:07:02

come here today, I reached out

1:07:05

to some of my former teammates

1:07:07

and friends and just I asked them because I'm still in the

1:07:09

game too, but just how did

1:07:12

they feel when

1:07:12

they retired? Or they moved on? And

1:07:16

I hadn't

1:07:17

really ever asked some of them those questions. So it's I

1:07:20

think when all of

1:07:21

us have these conversations, then

1:07:23

we go off and have

1:07:26

a conversation with another group. And then, hopefully, they continue to do

1:07:28

the same thing, and it just kind of

1:07:30

spreads, you know, but

1:07:33

that I

1:07:36

I agree.

1:07:36

I I laugh because the social media

1:07:38

part of it, you know. Luckily, back

1:07:40

in my day, we didn't have this. So

1:07:42

No. We did not. They didn't know

1:07:45

how. Dumb we were or It would've very

1:07:47

disappointing. Oh my goodness. Right?

1:07:49

You know, I laugh. It's like you had to

1:07:51

search on the message board to

1:07:53

find out what somebody thought of you or,

1:07:55

you know, whatever the case is, but

1:07:57

it's just, you know,

1:08:00

reminding everybody It's everybody

1:08:02

has their own experience. Everybody gets

1:08:04

things at a different rate, and we're

1:08:06

all here for a different reason and

1:08:08

and continue to find our wise.

1:08:10

Yeah. I love both of your points. That's so interesting. You're right. I mean, it's all about we let's

1:08:13

say we have to be wrong. Right? We have to

1:08:15

learn how to be wrong. On

1:08:18

social media rather than putting up the the side. And

1:08:21

then, to Ryan, what you were talking about?

1:08:23

You're so that's that's really true.

1:08:25

I've never really thought about it

1:08:27

that way. If we in a different

1:08:29

kind of conversation, in a different level of truth. It's

1:08:31

going to kind of have this trickle trickle

1:08:35

down or trickle out effect where it's like, okay, now it's

1:08:37

gonna start it's gonna prompt other

1:08:39

real conversation. So

1:08:42

I'm gonna follow-up Engaging in those conversations with your former

1:08:45

teammates, is there anything that you

1:08:47

learned about them or just

1:08:49

their transition from sport

1:08:51

or anything else? I

1:08:53

think more of them struggled than I thought. You know, they

1:08:55

just same social media. following them.

1:09:00

They're these gorgeous women

1:09:02

that are strong and you think they're so confident in in how they felt like they were

1:09:04

falling short in so

1:09:06

many areas of their lives.

1:09:10

I don't think I would have known that. And some

1:09:13

of them are my closest friends,

1:09:15

and just it's funny

1:09:17

how a few of them have

1:09:19

found their way back into sport, whether it was just coaching their little ones or volunteering

1:09:25

local high school or it just gave them that

1:09:27

sense of giving back. And I can be a leader or

1:09:29

I can be a role model

1:09:31

and not just focusing

1:09:35

on what am I doing?

1:09:36

How much money am I making? Is this

1:09:38

really what I'm supposed to be doing and still

1:09:40

trying to find

1:09:43

their way? So it's It's

1:09:44

been eye opening for me and I'm

1:09:46

just I'm thankful that I had this opportunity here with you because it

1:09:50

opened up that door. With them. Ah. Everything else. I'm gonna capitalize

1:09:52

on

1:09:52

something because I want the audience

1:09:54

to really hear Doriah's excitement. Her

1:09:57

voice elevated,

1:09:58

her eyes,

1:09:59

or twinkling. And

1:10:01

I'm trying to make you uncomfortable, but I I think it's important. She about

1:10:05

sharing

1:10:06

her story with

1:10:08

others. Which

1:10:11

barkels, but she also asked how

1:10:13

are you doing? And

1:10:15

her friends, trusted

1:10:17

friends, gave her response. So

1:10:19

reaching out to somebody, not only did she get some clarity and

1:10:21

confirmation that I'm not the only one going

1:10:23

through this, I'd

1:10:26

be willing to My

1:10:28

professional reputation, she lessened them with

1:10:30

healing because they felt visible,

1:10:32

they felt heard sometime

1:10:35

for the first time. She's

1:10:37

known them

1:10:38

all their lives, but I'd be willing to bet at some point. They really said what people

1:10:41

don't

1:10:42

really know me.

1:10:45

So

1:10:45

having these kind of conversations like

1:10:47

you're having the transparent conversation to get public discourse. But these

1:10:50

things are so simple. Hearing

1:10:53

about somebody else, putting

1:10:55

yourself, say, how are you doing really? And hearing from them, what's

1:10:58

going

1:10:58

on? They are receding

1:11:03

a healing energy from a thing like somebody cares

1:11:05

about me. I'm

1:11:08

visible and you are

1:11:09

feeling good because

1:11:11

you are helping. Them to

1:11:12

discover those talent that's in jeans. So

1:11:14

it's a boomerang effect.

1:11:15

Yeah. And if we can keep that

1:11:19

going. It's gonna be game changer.

1:11:20

It definitely makes me

1:11:22

think

1:11:22

about my experience a

1:11:25

few years ago.

1:11:27

I was covering ACC championship,

1:11:29

tennis championship. Gosh, I think it was twenty eighteen.

1:11:32

And I think around that

1:11:34

time, I had just finished. I

1:11:38

I went back and played professional antennas for

1:11:40

a little bit, and then

1:11:42

I was just completing my masters.

1:11:45

In educational school and counseling psychology. And I was really like searching

1:11:47

for answers about a lot of things, just about sport and

1:11:49

personal development, and my issues,

1:11:51

if other people did.

1:11:55

And I kinda had that same I had those same conversations,

1:11:57

but it was out of curiosity. Because

1:11:59

I

1:11:59

was like, I was

1:12:01

really searching for answers,

1:12:03

and I had these conversations with

1:12:05

my teammates that I just had never had before, and these are

1:12:07

people that I've known since I since

1:12:10

I was a child

1:12:12

and you know,

1:12:14

as teammates, you're you travel on the plane and parties

1:12:15

and hotel and on

1:12:18

the quarter feel, I

1:12:20

mean, blood,

1:12:22

sweat, tears. I mean, everything.

1:12:24

You might even hold

1:12:25

be holding their hair back at a

1:12:28

party one night

1:12:29

while they're, you know, going to

1:12:31

crazy. You have all these, like, intimate

1:12:33

moments and it's crazy how you can know

1:12:35

somebody for so long.

1:12:37

But if you don't approach a

1:12:39

conversation in a different way or ask a certain question, you'll never know anything about

1:12:41

that person. I mean, this when

1:12:43

we're talking about this,

1:12:44

because this is what

1:12:46

it's all about, it's like, engaging in different

1:12:49

conversations with the people that we love and care

1:12:51

about. What

1:12:51

it what comes

1:12:53

up for you That's it. Does it make you think

1:12:55

about maybe any of your teammates, your experience,

1:12:58

maybe things that you would like to

1:13:00

continue to work

1:13:02

on? Definitely I didn't

1:13:03

realize how big relationships are while I

1:13:05

was in college. I was just so focused

1:13:08

on school and

1:13:10

volleyball. And now I have great

1:13:12

lifelong friends from the sport, and it's

1:13:14

incredible. But I don't think I've had those, like, real

1:13:19

transparent conversations with them. And even thinking with, like, my family, like, do I ask my

1:13:21

mom, like, how are you? Mhmm. Like, just little

1:13:23

things like that. Like, I

1:13:25

I can definitely work

1:13:27

on and just Yeah.

1:13:28

Being more open with them

1:13:30

as well. Yeah. I think I I think this is a

1:13:33

great conversation to

1:13:36

have and I

1:13:37

can be having it

1:13:39

more. Yeah. Yeah. Doctor

1:13:39

Peter or Taraya? Right.

1:13:42

I think

1:13:44

since going into quarantine, and I think

1:13:46

Dr. P. He hit on this earlier of more

1:13:52

intimate conversations we

1:13:54

say intimate but deeper level even on social media and finding out different

1:13:56

political views or

1:13:59

race views or even

1:14:03

just what is important to people now, things

1:14:05

changing since COVID. I

1:14:08

think more conversations

1:14:11

are happening, but I I hope we

1:14:14

continue to to stay in this space as well, but it's just it's interesting

1:14:16

how as

1:14:19

I'm getting older and having these types of conversations, it's

1:14:22

just you you know, that that self

1:14:24

reflection And

1:14:26

it is, you know, I've had so many teammates reach out

1:14:29

of, you know, we never really

1:14:31

talked about this or

1:14:32

-- Yeah. -- you know, you

1:14:33

being biracial back in the day and now

1:14:35

it's happening in it has evolved over the last

1:14:37

couple of years, but I hope we do continue to grow

1:14:40

with this. And

1:14:43

and the biracial identity is

1:14:45

who she has always been, who she

1:14:47

will always be. And

1:14:50

then when we are forced to not talk about

1:14:53

it, i e deny

1:14:55

it. That doesn't do

1:14:57

good. We distinguish ourselves nonetheless. But

1:14:59

there's

1:14:59

an emptiness there. There's of

1:15:02

you that can't be expressed. And

1:15:05

you can put up with that

1:15:07

for so long. They give me

1:15:09

the pandemic in it. And

1:15:12

literally, the whole world was

1:15:14

shut down. You were introduced

1:15:16

to a new reality. See, because when

1:15:18

you go to sports, when you go

1:15:20

to work, when you go to

1:15:23

Starbucks, when you do life, It really

1:15:25

serves two purposes, not just one. The first purpose is

1:15:27

that you get nourished emotionally,

1:15:28

you feel

1:15:31

accomplished, you feel good about yourself. You

1:15:33

feel like there's a purpose. There's a meaning to get up every day, so all of that stuff

1:15:35

is true. What

1:15:39

engage in, and those

1:15:40

outside activities also does.

1:15:42

It prevents you from

1:15:44

having to deal with

1:15:47

stuff you talk about. So

1:15:49

when that was stripped away literally

1:15:51

and you were forced now to be still and

1:15:52

forced out of me still

1:15:55

and be there, That's an

1:15:57

uncomfortable spot to me. Because when you look in the mirror

1:15:59

and you don't like the

1:15:59

image you see in the mirror,

1:16:02

it's not Betsi fall to the

1:16:04

mirror.

1:16:05

the border amir There's some

1:16:07

stuff you have to do. And when you're forced

1:16:09

to do

1:16:09

it, many people took the opportunity and did

1:16:12

it. Some people say,

1:16:13

oh, I just wait till this pandemic passed,

1:16:15

but guess what? We're still in it. And so

1:16:17

you have

1:16:18

abundant opportunity to sorta

1:16:21

come

1:16:21

clean and and just see

1:16:23

how much more you have inside of you, despite

1:16:26

your external

1:16:26

accomplishments, gold medals,

1:16:29

trophies, all of

1:16:31

that. yet

1:16:32

to see gold in just

1:16:34

in any sport, in any career,

1:16:36

and

1:16:38

in any profession. Because there's still

1:16:40

untapped

1:16:40

potential that's there to

1:16:43

be

1:16:43

tapped. Mhmm.

1:16:44

Yeah. It's

1:16:46

it's interesting. Right? We're

1:16:48

always growing. We're always evolving. And sports is obviously such I

1:16:50

mean, it's the

1:16:51

best thing that that's ever happened to me. I

1:16:53

would imagine it's the best

1:16:55

thing that's happened to

1:16:57

the rest of you because of just

1:16:59

the role that it plays. But in many ways, yeah,

1:17:01

it gives us something to focus on and yet it

1:17:04

kind of I

1:17:06

don't wanna say inhibit, but it,

1:17:08

you know, it gave me what I

1:17:11

needed as a child. But now

1:17:13

because I avoided addressing some of those things

1:17:15

that you just talked about, everybody has talked about. I'm now just really trying

1:17:17

to reconcile and

1:17:20

think and flacked

1:17:22

especially as I'm going through my clinical training

1:17:24

because this is really important. You

1:17:26

talk about intersectionality and gender

1:17:29

and identity and race. And for me being

1:17:31

an Asian American, what was it like being a

1:17:33

member of the bipod community and growing up in

1:17:35

the Midwest, you know, and

1:17:37

really being one of, you know, being a minority in that and how did that affect me?

1:17:39

I mean, that's why it's just, you

1:17:41

know, I really relied on

1:17:44

sport. So you

1:17:47

know, really tying this all back together and and talking

1:17:50

about how,

1:17:50

you know, mental health

1:17:53

and just

1:17:56

general well-being is

1:17:56

so important, not only for student

1:17:58

athletes, but as we move forward into the next chapter whenever that may

1:17:59

be, it into

1:18:00

what

1:18:03

do you think you

1:18:05

all would have told

1:18:07

yourself, at twenty two years old or eighteen

1:18:09

years

1:18:12

old, that might

1:18:13

help allow you

1:18:15

to navigate, you know,

1:18:16

into the next

1:18:18

chapter of your lives go

1:18:21

to

1:18:21

Betsy into Ryam, either one. I think for

1:18:24

me, I would have told

1:18:25

myself, it's okay to feel what

1:18:28

you feel. Feel

1:18:30

it

1:18:30

and then be able to move on instead of

1:18:33

pushing it aside and building up,

1:18:35

giving yourself ulcers, right, and

1:18:37

just kind of overthinking

1:18:40

everything. But Also, try

1:18:41

to find balance sooner, not

1:18:43

just be so

1:18:45

consumed

1:18:46

with I wanna a

1:18:48

national title. I have to get this grade in

1:18:50

the class. It's okay to want those things and have those goals,

1:18:53

but then to step

1:18:55

away at time just again

1:18:58

have those moments of self reflection and self care moments.

1:19:00

Mhmm. self care

1:19:02

moment Very similar.

1:19:04

Just reminding

1:19:05

myself that it's not all

1:19:07

about the goals. It's

1:19:10

about

1:19:10

the process getting there. And

1:19:13

taking time to, yes, reflect and just understand that this is

1:19:15

a learning process and

1:19:20

what you're doing now and the skills that you're

1:19:22

getting right now are gonna help you later on in life. And, yeah,

1:19:24

that'd be a great perspective for

1:19:26

me to have at twenty two.

1:19:29

I'm

1:19:29

so interested to just talk to you after this panel because I I feel

1:19:31

like we're talking about so many

1:19:36

different things that you just wouldn't have a

1:19:38

dress, especially as you're training for the one big. So you're like, for sure. You're like, I

1:19:40

can't

1:19:41

believe I'm talking about

1:19:43

this stuff as uncomfortable and

1:19:46

but obviously really, you know, really

1:19:47

important. And Dr. P. I

1:19:49

want to ask

1:19:51

you that question as well because

1:19:53

I know you have many, many things on your plate today and you've gotta jet out and

1:19:55

and help all the people that are on

1:19:58

your on your

1:19:59

slate. So do you think

1:20:01

you would have told your eighteen or

1:20:03

twenty two year old self? Well, I probably would have

1:20:05

started at ten because that's eighteen. You said you're sort

1:20:08

of already packaged and

1:20:10

and really have to prove or disprove what you've been told. But often, borrow

1:20:13

from

1:20:14

my mom, our

1:20:16

mom, She

1:20:18

was a single parent and never knew

1:20:21

that we were

1:20:23

unloved. We had

1:20:25

an upbringing we're

1:20:27

always felt. We had friendships

1:20:30

on the table. We

1:20:32

were not in the upper

1:20:34

economic strat. In fact, we were

1:20:36

technically poor, but we never knew that.

1:20:38

And so I I would I I

1:20:39

keep feeding on

1:20:44

that that

1:20:44

when I would've taught myself that I

1:20:46

would what I've understood at that time,

1:20:48

that while it does

1:20:50

feel that life happens to you,

1:20:53

life happens for you. And if somebody had spoken that into me,

1:20:55

I I would have absorbed some of

1:20:57

the slings and arrows

1:20:59

I came by. And

1:21:02

and just move forward. I

1:21:04

think we've I've finally

1:21:07

discovered that that's what you

1:21:09

need

1:21:10

to do. Because

1:21:10

as you learn in athletics, it's not what happens to

1:21:12

you, it's how you respond to it.

1:21:14

And and I

1:21:15

certainly would have done more of

1:21:17

that. But

1:21:18

as I got older, I had I feel blessed to

1:21:19

have a single mom who

1:21:21

cared.

1:21:25

I was doing some volunteer work

1:21:27

when I was twelve, thirteen years old,

1:21:29

and

1:21:29

we used to go to these hospitals

1:21:31

for the elderly. And

1:21:34

this one guy used to always

1:21:36

his parting words for us before we went, before

1:21:38

next week, he

1:21:39

gave us a puzzle. And

1:21:43

one

1:21:43

I I've always remembered this and this one. I was twelve

1:21:45

years a couple of years

1:21:47

ago. He

1:21:48

says, If

1:21:50

everybody

1:21:50

in the world died right

1:21:53

this

1:21:54

man, everybody was

1:21:56

the one thing

1:21:58

that

1:21:58

everybody could say with

1:22:00

certainty. And

1:22:00

at twelve point one, I didn't quite

1:22:03

understand, but even as an adult,

1:22:05

I don't know that would understand that question

1:22:07

because there's a variety of people. So we were puzzled

1:22:09

and he

1:22:09

came back next week and nobody

1:22:12

knew the answer.

1:22:14

And he's chuckling and he's literally

1:22:16

he get ready to transition. He's

1:22:18

chuckling and just and he

1:22:21

said something simple. All five

1:22:23

billion people in the world

1:22:25

will be able to say, some

1:22:27

things worked out

1:22:29

and some things did. Something

1:22:31

so simple, and I've

1:22:33

never

1:22:33

forgot that. And

1:22:35

it doesn't

1:22:36

change

1:22:37

the course of

1:22:39

anything. But nobody goes through

1:22:39

life perfectly. And again,

1:22:43

there's

1:22:43

you can't

1:22:46

move

1:22:46

from pain to power.

1:22:48

There's

1:22:48

a treasure in every trial.

1:22:51

There's those sorts of things. And I learned that even earlier. And

1:22:56

repeatedly sort

1:22:56

of embraced that. I think things

1:22:58

would have been different. But

1:23:00

we are here

1:23:02

right now in this

1:23:04

based on time. I think there's no accent

1:23:06

based on our marriage experiences -- Yeah. -- to come together and to really to

1:23:08

ask the conversation over. And

1:23:10

yet had somebody told you

1:23:12

that would

1:23:14

you have ended up

1:23:15

where you are today? Probably. The

1:23:17

trailblazer? Probably not. That you

1:23:19

are. There you go. I don't

1:23:21

know about all that. You know what? This has

1:23:23

been such a fun conversation, but Dr. P. I know I

1:23:25

know you get a jet because you have

1:23:27

many things. But I wanted

1:23:30

I've said I told you this an

1:23:32

hour? Well, now it's been two hours, three

1:23:34

hours ago. I don't know. We've been talking for a

1:23:35

while. But I told you this before

1:23:37

I'm gonna tell you this

1:23:39

again, especially public and,

1:23:42

you know, I just really want to thank you for for being there, not only as mentors,

1:23:47

or so support, but

1:23:50

also just kind of navigating through

1:23:52

my clinical experience and all

1:23:55

those things. And and

1:23:59

also when I called doctor Fee, like, as we're about

1:24:01

to go off to our first panel

1:24:03

at Duke. And Just

1:24:07

wait towards the end of the

1:24:09

conversation. He he just stopped in his

1:24:11

powerful Dr. P. Wai's.

1:24:14

And

1:24:15

he was just like, Can you

1:24:17

just just

1:24:18

do this for me? Just breathe? Can you just breathe?

1:24:20

I was like,

1:24:21

what? Can you

1:24:23

can you tell you

1:24:25

tell you can tell I'm stressed. You

1:24:27

tell I'm tight. I'm young. You can just and was was like, literally, like, that's

1:24:29

all

1:24:29

I needed, you know, because

1:24:32

this campaign, Elgy

1:24:35

Transfer conversations campaign has meant so much to

1:24:37

me. And we have a lot of members

1:24:39

from the Lupine creative marketing agency

1:24:41

that's really put this thing together

1:24:44

and I'll as well as

1:24:46

the members from LG Electronics. And so anyways, thank you. Thank

1:24:48

you for all that you do and thank

1:24:50

you

1:24:50

for all the help that

1:24:51

you continue you

1:24:54

that you continue to do. We're gonna take a a

1:24:56

short break, and it's a good time

1:24:59

because the air conditioning just shut off. And

1:25:01

I'm starting to it's starting to feel like

1:25:03

an oven in here, TD. So I know

1:25:04

y'all want us to be hot and bacon, but we might have to

1:25:07

turn this back on. So we're gonna take a little

1:25:09

break and we're gonna get some

1:25:11

we're gonna garner questions from the

1:25:13

audience. So everybody out there, I see you. Don't run. Hopefully,

1:25:16

you have some

1:25:18

questions. Do do you

1:25:20

know Some of

1:25:22

the Okay. Alright. Good. So we got some pure

1:25:24

performance going on. Good. Ask some great

1:25:26

questions, and we will continue in

1:25:29

a few minutes. Thank

1:25:30

the

1:25:34

you.

1:25:39

Really hope you enjoyed today's conversation and took something away

1:25:41

from it. Stay tuned next week for

1:25:43

another episode of the

1:25:46

LG transparent conversation series

1:25:48

on student athlete, mental health, and

1:25:50

well-being. For all things, LG transparent conversations, be sure to check out the

1:25:52

website, l g dot

1:25:54

com forward slash u s

1:25:58

forward slash transparent dash

1:26:00

conversations. Also, for other episodes of

1:26:02

the next chapter, be sure to

1:26:05

check out our home page, on iHeartRadio, or

1:26:07

wherever you get your podcast. You can also watch the full version of these interviews

1:26:09

on YouTube, just search for

1:26:11

the title name, the

1:26:15

next chapter with PRIMS Rippepat, and you can also follow me

1:26:18

on all my social media platforms at

1:26:20

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1:26:23

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