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Station East Coast Subs. Hello

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everyone, welcome

0:36

to the next level. Stop,

0:39

don't you do that. Don't

0:43

you do that you two. This

0:45

is JBL, it actually is JBL and I'm

0:47

here with my two best friends who

0:50

are mocking my pain Sarah Longwell and

0:52

Tim Miller of the Bulwark. I'm

0:55

a little under the weather but I'm here playing hurt. We're

0:58

going to do this show anyway. This

1:01

voice is not real. How are we doing this show?

1:04

This is an audio medium podcast.

1:06

Yeah, well you know what there's

1:08

also video. So

1:10

what we could do is I could get a little white board,

1:12

a little dry erase board and I can just write all my

1:14

thoughts on them and hold them up to the camera so you

1:17

guys could read them. We could do that if you want

1:19

to do it that way. It's like someone punched you

1:21

in the throat. That's how it

1:23

feels actually. It doesn't feel great.

1:26

You know Tim I know this is real because I've heard this

1:28

but he does this. Someone on the secret pod. When

1:30

he's sick he's like this. It's his Phoebe voice. It's

1:33

what the body does. Yeah. It's just a

1:35

thing. Let's save your

1:37

economy of words from you today.

1:40

So let's just move forward. All right. The

1:43

Trump trial. David Pekker

1:45

has been on the stand this week and

1:48

I something something amusing

1:50

here Mr. Miller. David

1:52

Pekker in that voice. I don't know there's

1:54

something about that voice saying Pekker. I just

1:56

I don't know. Sorry. A little

1:58

Ethel Merman action. So I've

2:00

written about this today in the newsletter because I write

2:03

even when I'm sick too. And

2:05

there's a very Nazi thing about this. This

2:09

is there's a guy, the guy

2:11

who convinced a bunch of

2:14

Nazi fundraisers to buy a

2:16

newspaper, a tabloid newspaper in Munich and let

2:18

them turn it into the house organ of

2:20

the Nazi party. They put him as publisher

2:22

of it. Dietrich

2:26

Eckhart, I think was his name. And

2:28

that's basically what David Pecker is. And I don't

2:30

know about you guys. This is something

2:33

totally new in American politics.

2:36

We had house organs like the Daily

2:38

Worker, but they were

2:40

admittedly house organs. I mean, they said,

2:42

you know, the official, the

2:45

official newspaper of Communist Party USA,

2:48

they didn't hide. And

2:50

to have an actual propaganda outlet

2:52

taking its orders from

2:55

Donald Trump, well, that's day

2:57

to day story by story basis and

3:00

obscuring that from people. This

3:02

is fascist shit. OK, so we

3:04

went right to Nazis, but that's OK. I

3:07

don't know about what happened in

3:10

Germany with Dietrich. But I will

3:12

say what's interesting about this is

3:15

so this is from 2016 and Pecker's in the courtroom

3:17

saying this like, yeah, this is how

3:19

it worked. And there's a couple

3:21

of things about it that jump out at me that are super

3:23

interesting. One

3:26

is I talk a

3:28

lot about how Trump's celebrity made him

3:30

unique. And I'm usually talking about in

3:32

the context of people had had him

3:34

in their homes. They felt like they

3:36

had a personal relationship with him. But

3:38

this is another way in which his

3:40

celebrity really came into play, which is

3:43

that he had been using channels like

3:45

the National Enquirer for decades, right, to

3:47

leak stuff about competitors, to build

3:50

himself up. And so it's not

3:52

even that it was like There

3:54

was no Trump administration at the time. Like if you

3:57

look back at 2016 and think about it in the

3:59

2016. Contact Trump was a

4:01

tabloid candidate and so like it's

4:03

the it that that twenty one

4:05

and that we find ourselves we

4:07

are now is actually the and

4:09

St. Bart's To me it seems

4:12

like yeah Trump was a scummy

4:14

sea level celebrity that had been

4:16

in the public consciousness for a

4:18

long time in a tabloid. He

4:20

kind of way with his exploits

4:22

and ah and so he had

4:24

this relationship that he used to

4:26

do scummy things that light outside

4:28

of the normal political. Realm which

4:31

is why we never took them as

4:33

seriously like I was. looking back at

4:35

the story that they did not about

4:37

from because for Trump it was more

4:39

as they were protecting him. but they

4:42

were also writing negative pieces about his

4:44

adversaries. and so there were a bunch

4:46

stories about Ted Cruz and everybody remembers

4:48

like the J F K his father

4:50

assassinated Jfk right of preposterous thing but

4:53

they also wrote about and Cruz having

4:55

five mistresses. Which. Are

4:57

one of whom. Was Amanda Carpenter

4:59

or a colleague right? because she was

5:01

his com Director at the time and

5:03

like so Trump played a game at

5:05

that. Nobody was ready for that. nobody

5:07

had dealt with in the past and

5:10

that you know is it A just

5:12

stayed as a. Dirty. Side

5:14

Tabloid might not have mattered that

5:16

much, but because a lot of

5:18

the stuff ended up at the center

5:20

of. His campaign and ios

5:22

from he became President. Now it matters in a

5:24

way that feels totally different that I think it

5:26

felt twenty sixty. Does that make sense? Just

5:29

I know I mean so I lived through

5:31

and twenty sixteen it does matter to weed

5:33

out it's different between six years really fuck

5:35

opponent and so am i felt like really

5:37

prime for this topic. goes coming on and

5:40

be like this is ext ago the you

5:42

understand of serious diseases and then Jv else

5:44

goes up immediately to nazi said onlookers really

5:46

serious or your ears that's just the only

5:49

that's the only com. Uma

5:51

com is the the

5:54

European movements. Him.

5:56

In the Best is moving the Nineteen

5:58

twenties and thirties. right? But the. Whatever

6:00

paper they bought I bet didn't

6:02

wasn't running stories that was like

6:04

that boy lives again. The human

6:06

boy whose is a bastard. On

6:08

now to see, own it to all

6:11

of down from fascistic term tendencies or

6:13

like all the cops are just like

6:15

where there's maybe actress elements to nazis

6:17

and do but like it's just slightly

6:20

more idiot craddock with trump always and

6:22

more just absurdist. but I concur with

6:24

that. But I mean that stuff and

6:26

obviously it. Royal. Demand is why

6:29

for example and many other women like

6:31

these accusations and also do I do

6:33

like Marco Rubio love child. You know,

6:35

like there are certain things that we

6:38

all just remember right? because they stuck

6:40

more the that Killed Kennedy. You know

6:42

that cruises damn killed Kennedy Elements and

6:45

he will go. They last oldest and

6:47

yeah I get it was a little

6:49

bit of humor that went along with

6:51

all this, but. It. Also

6:54

worked. Like. It helps our

6:56

job brain and it over the

6:58

crazy Ben Carson Ben Carson almost

7:00

killed somebody uni as a kid

7:02

or whatever. I all this stuff.

7:04

I didn't help Donald Trump level

7:07

the playing field for himself because

7:09

he hadn't tawdry have three right

7:11

and so the an ass inquire

7:13

kind of muddied the waters about

7:15

all this self. They were real

7:17

personal ramifications for people on it

7:19

was not a kinda anything out

7:21

there is somebody on. On.

7:24

A desert and two things at whether

7:26

to kinda anything do Once in that

7:28

it is has been anything like this

7:30

in politics at the Schwartzenegger I think

7:32

also did a catch and kill thing

7:34

so the kitchen kill element there may

7:36

be are a couple other of examples

7:38

but the element of this that was

7:40

testified to yesterday which I think is

7:42

a newbies of information we knew that

7:44

Cohen is involved in on us we

7:46

know results. that was that David Packer

7:48

with sending the articles to come when

7:50

I go with before they published a

7:52

viewer brainstorming the articles. became he

7:54

was literally editing the articles i get

7:57

there is nothing like this are been

7:59

accused of fans of the ball

8:01

were replied to us, his daughter Maya

8:03

writes sometimes for Matt Iglesias' thing, she's

8:05

awesome, and was like, well, I don't

8:07

know, isn't this kind of akin to

8:09

scummy, oppo, Republican tactics, you

8:12

know, historically, like the McCain baby

8:14

Bush thing? And my response

8:16

to that is somebody that ran a Republican

8:19

Oppo firm is like, no, this is a

8:21

total category difference. The fact that you mentioned

8:23

the Bush, you know, claiming that McCain had

8:25

a black baby thing as a comp is

8:27

because that was so outlandish, right? Like, and

8:29

there was so much outrage over that

8:32

tactic, you know, because it

8:34

was beyond the pale and and there's

8:36

been widespread condemnation of it. Like,

8:38

it was not standard to make

8:40

up shit about your candidates, your

8:42

opposition's sex life, your opposition's family

8:45

members, your opposition's spouses, and and

8:47

and work with tabloid outlets on

8:49

it and have approval over the

8:51

language that came out and brainstorm

8:53

with them as if they are

8:55

like an arm of the campaign.

8:57

Like, that is not, no, like,

8:59

it was, it was, it is

9:02

extreme, it was bad behavior and

9:04

extreme. It's also disgusting, like, the

9:06

real-world implications on people that were

9:08

just caught in the shrapnel of this. And

9:10

like, Michael Cohen was doing this, it was extremely

9:12

gross, and I'm glad he's gonna testify against Trump

9:14

and he's found God or whatever, but like, it

9:16

is, it was even

9:19

within the bounds of like,

9:21

extremely Atwater-ish, you know, Karl

9:23

Rove and Republican tactics. This

9:25

was far beyond, you know,

9:27

what was commonplace tactical behavior.

9:29

And can I just add to

9:31

this so, like, when you say, like, it's so different,

9:34

right? It was different in 2016, but

9:36

the fact is, if you go through the text

9:39

messages after January 6th, it is

9:41

Laura Ingraham and it is a bunch

9:43

of Fox News hosts who are texting

9:45

with members with Mark Meadows being like,

9:47

you got to tell him this, like,

9:49

the amount to which Trump

9:51

graduated from these tabloids

9:55

to more conservative

9:57

Media outlets that were much, that were. Much

10:00

less tabloid he like obviously Fox News.

10:02

we don't take it seriously is like

10:04

a news outlet, however it is much

10:06

more mainstream. The enquirer was M like

10:09

Chino has the same relationship with. That

10:11

was something about Trump that I think

10:13

people didn't see coming was he knew

10:15

how to build these relationships with the

10:17

press and demand things that like normal

10:20

political operatives wouldn't do because we don't

10:22

engage with the press the way that

10:24

Trump had gotten used. To engaging with

10:26

the press root out village decision to

10:28

me. Acute humor even closer in other

10:30

words was okay. I get really show

10:33

with David Packer wants you to call

10:35

him. And we're gonna

10:37

work on the story to

10:39

other smearing the opposite candidate

10:41

I. I. Guess I

10:43

can't know exactly what I would have done in that

10:45

situation. They don't have been more. Inclined

10:48

to consider it earlier in my

10:50

career for advanced purposes of but

10:52

like. I think

10:54

certainly my time. I got to Jugs

10:56

campaign. Out of I would

10:58

have thought to herself absolutely not

11:00

like the Blue Ivy idea a

11:03

it's wrong but be just a

11:05

practical risk of this A what

11:07

his pecker turns on me and

11:09

like a story like the in

11:11

the story comes out. The Jabs

11:14

campaign was creating fake news, attacking

11:16

their opponents family a net like

11:18

a campaign ending level scandal for

11:20

normal type candidates. I. Just wanna

11:22

level said. years of people who

11:25

haven't saw the testimony can understand

11:27

what we mean when we savings

11:29

are manufactured. So for instance, the

11:32

Rafael Cruz killed Jfk. Saying.

11:35

That originates between conversations and

11:37

Dame Packer Michael Cohen. presumably.

11:41

It comes from Trump because this

11:43

is, you know, it's like the

11:45

wire right the guy holds the

11:47

drugs never also touches the money,

11:49

him. So.

11:51

Packers it's down with his editor and

11:53

are archivist. And they just get out. Photos

11:56

and start matching them up. To.

11:59

Create. Citizens will meet.

12:01

It's not a case where like,

12:03

well, somewhere there is little bit

12:05

of a germ of truth in

12:07

the may exaggerate it or. This.

12:10

Is it's it's the disinformation.

12:13

And. Now. Sorry

12:15

you said the the the old,

12:17

the old Munich Observer wasn't running.

12:19

you know. right? I don't know. I

12:22

didn't read the Munich Observer mic. Vulnerable would they

12:24

would do is they would you stories

12:26

like to Jewish teenagers turn into bats?

12:28

right? There was an anti semitic

12:31

paper and death. There's no

12:33

real difference between that. And.

12:35

Saying that Rafael Cruz was working with

12:37

Lee Harvey Oswald. Like. Is

12:39

it is his whole plot fabrication?

12:42

This. Guy David Packer. With. Stress,

12:44

that is that. Absolute

12:47

trash human being and was muscle a

12:49

human. These coups, selections like all the

12:51

stuff matter like all the stuff mattered

12:53

on the margins and and and the

12:56

fact that to Cruise and Carson and

12:58

Rubio we get back around a little

13:00

marco like are all just whatever. Like.

13:03

The type of guy that legit that's

13:05

just the Us is normal ball. I

13:07

mean Barack Obama one time said that

13:10

graduate with Super Pac said the Mitt

13:12

Romney was a killer one time and

13:14

so whatever. Even Steven. This.

13:16

Is no. But. They didn't think that at the

13:18

time like this is what's crazy about the

13:21

stories. It's really up a time that now

13:23

we have so much more context. more like

13:25

I was looking at one of these stories

13:27

and like still quoting Roger Stone. Well if

13:29

I was reading that story that companies have

13:31

seen, I have no idea who Roger Stone

13:33

as I do can't. Extra radish? Don't know.

13:35

I have a tremendous amount of contexts for

13:37

Roger Stone. and like back then Marco Rubio

13:40

and Ted Cruz were never Ted Cruz hold

13:42

that held a press conference with i want

13:44

to tell you what I really think about

13:46

Donald laughs He. Is a liar and

13:48

a con man and a despicable

13:50

human being. That's how they felt

13:53

during this period of time. Right

13:55

made they work on then later.

13:57

right? It and this is of last time.

14:00

But they were kind of asking me

14:02

to like draw a bright line between

14:04

the sort of normal elements of the

14:06

republican party and the trump he elements

14:08

and I was like that's not it

14:10

anymore you there's no lines as it's

14:12

like it's all shades and it's all.

14:14

It's like a a wave of a

14:16

notion that slowly overtook something that now

14:18

the the The to those guys who

14:20

took great on bridge to this and

14:22

saw it as dirty pool and disgusting

14:24

and despicable tactics like now they're fine

14:26

with it right? Like Dave just. Frog

14:29

Boiling water of whatever, right?

14:32

Whether. It's because they were scared of trump

14:34

of because it was if you can't beat

14:36

em, join em Like whatever the psychological effects

14:38

were at slowly took hold of many of

14:40

the people in the Republican party. wasn't how

14:42

they acted at the time, it is how

14:44

they act now. Suit is Ted

14:46

Cruz. When he did his thing,

14:48

she specifically fingered David Pick on

14:51

Trump's his views.this guy that signs

14:53

of for years. They make this

14:55

stuff up. Soon. Sil

14:58

Bump calls up. The cruise

15:00

office yesterday is a chance for them

15:02

to. Despite. To the bots a

15:04

cruise been utterly and completely vindicated. About

15:07

this guy who lied about his own

15:09

father and himself and his than the

15:11

weather in his way for those white

15:13

and his answer is the that's ancient

15:15

history and want I will as. Honors

15:18

a Live with Yourself. With.

15:20

Ion and I I genuinely

15:23

don't understand. How a

15:25

man get up in the morning and look

15:27

for themselves in the mirror? To. Be

15:29

fair, the idea that five women would

15:31

sleep with Ted Cruz see probably like

15:33

that story right? Like because one of

15:36

the chances. Zero an hour and them

15:38

the more credible source that Ted Cruz

15:40

way decide for for the ones like

15:42

his roommate fleet. You. Know

15:44

that during the campaign about how to

15:46

create guy come home and Ted Cruz

15:48

be alone watching porn like a bucket

15:51

of fried chicken. and

15:54

instead answer the real to improve. Other

15:57

news from today actually has

15:59

reported. After. Dawn

16:02

and Eric are going to be

16:04

the loyalties. ours. In. The

16:06

transition team for from twenty

16:09

twenty five and. There's

16:11

a lot of this. Writing is interesting.

16:14

But the most interesting detail on

16:17

it is it they will not

16:19

be officially. Part. Of

16:21

the transition team which means that Trump

16:23

is going to set up. An.

16:26

Unaccountable superstructure outside

16:28

of the. Actual.

16:30

Structure for his. Presidential.

16:33

Transition. And

16:36

I don't know what to say. substance. This

16:38

is gangster government. Does. Is

16:40

just straight up mafia stuff and again

16:42

I don't know how anybody could look

16:44

at all this and say. A.

16:47

While ago the guy who are

16:49

passed. As infrastructure and

16:51

got the tic tac band on

16:53

the and got the aid to

16:56

Ukraine than tab. The. Org Vienna

16:58

weeks ago at the some other dude is going to

17:00

put his boys in charge. Of loyalty

17:02

it will get so we are

17:04

you doing que se then charge

17:06

of this outside of the campaign

17:08

without local the events like a

17:10

superstar. Areas like it's the family.

17:13

You. Know like with Cosa Nostra is coming

17:16

in and it's like well okay we'll have

17:18

we feel like somebody who I know go

17:20

a trance we don't like or whatever we

17:22

can just acts them and it is similar

17:25

in a way to sort of told that

17:27

I guess for about my friend who is

17:29

working at the Rnc that come from Jared

17:31

Kushner because everything okay that's the same, the

17:34

same set up that now you know they've

17:36

learned a thing or two from Twenty Twenty

17:38

Four. And the other interesting part of the

17:41

story I thought was that at that they're

17:43

brought in. A. Loyalty

17:45

is ours. Monitoring like

17:47

the Rhino Cox, the people that my

17:49

on a dude right thing and father of

17:52

law said earlier to make sure we got

17:54

at legalize on them but there's another give

17:56

that they animator they got eyes on which

17:59

are the I. The logs. That.

18:01

Might be doing something to hurt Donald

18:04

Trump's in a reputation I go out

18:06

to every as Trump doesn't care about.

18:08

was the shit right? I Trump will

18:10

enact some of the far right stuff

18:13

on immigration and the deportation elements that

18:15

the changes to the D O J

18:17

to target enemies but you know I

18:19

mean that one out Once you get

18:22

some weirdo from Claremont in there that

18:24

fight you know making policy proposals tenth

18:26

as get put on white papers for

18:28

Project Twenty Twenty Five that all the

18:31

sudden. And the newspaper that somebody prints

18:33

out for Donald Trump and shows term

18:35

and he's like i don't agree with

18:37

this weird policy about birth control or

18:39

whatever other random thing you know can't

18:41

trust bronze age pervert it right by

18:43

now that exactly. And so they've gotta

18:46

have eyes on those people with. I

18:48

think that it shows that. Is

18:50

dangerous In the scariest project we've twenty five

18:52

is yeah the trunk people who are you

18:55

know who are mafia says and want to

18:57

keep it in the family like wait a

18:59

minute. Okay, at wired

19:01

wired these point. Dexter's. On

19:04

Case Street you know, creating bad news

19:06

for us an Iguana. And and why

19:08

do they think that they're gonna have

19:10

veto power over who is at the

19:13

Department of Commerce? Like I might want

19:15

one of my business buddies who gives

19:17

me money to be in charge of

19:19

the Ftc. I don't want some of

19:21

idea like that has really strong views

19:24

about regulatory policy. downtown doesn't care about

19:26

that I visited is gonna be pure

19:28

graft south. I give both of these

19:30

things at once right? He as he

19:32

has some Dane very. Dangerous extreme

19:35

cystic policy inclinations, but

19:37

he also. You.

19:40

Know once to have handouts for

19:42

his buddies and doesn't care that

19:44

much about some of the truth

19:46

on ideological stuff. In a down

19:48

and net is corrupt and dangerous

19:50

and in. Both the

19:52

bottom things at the same time

19:55

it it's like different than what

19:57

you know, the biggest Mussolini lover.

20:00

The Heritage Foundation would want from

20:02

the government that make sense. Yeah.

20:04

And let's stipulate the dangerousness have it

20:06

so that I can talk about the

20:08

funny side of this charade. Or

20:11

even a Gary. Dangerous. Very scary

20:13

dollars. But. Here's the bright spots.

20:16

Ah, If. You're the Heritage

20:18

Foundation. And yeah, Claremont or

20:20

a bunch of the other sort

20:22

of parts of Old Washington that

20:24

basically fired everybody that was not

20:26

on board with supporting sort of

20:29

Mag policies are and enters it

20:31

says in the Peace right It's

20:33

like specifically Heritage which has sort

20:35

of said that they're running the

20:37

transition. Officially, that annoyed Trump. You

20:40

mean they're running the transition. Tell

20:42

him they were running the transition.

20:44

But here's it's great You are.

20:46

You sold out everything. All these

20:48

groups. Sold out everything so that they

20:50

could when Donald Trump gets in. Say.

20:53

That they're at the table, they're driving a bus

20:55

ticket doesn't care of a policy so we're all

20:58

over it. and if they get shot out. Because.

21:00

Donald Trump doesn't care about their

21:02

political ideological said issues and instead

21:04

is looking for the make America

21:07

Great Again institute which I believe

21:09

is real thing now. Ah, like

21:11

the magazine tanks that have come

21:13

into fruition sense Twenty twenty for

21:15

the old Trump folks to basically

21:17

have their own. I don't want

21:19

to cause of the think tanks

21:21

cause I don't think they're thinking

21:23

about anything but like the for

21:26

the people to prove their allegiance

21:28

right. There are now mega identified

21:30

structures. With the specific blessing of Donald Trump

21:32

and for the power to get handed over to

21:34

them and for all these people who have sacrificed

21:36

and traded away everything and made all these fast

21:39

in bargains to get shut out the something about

21:41

that I find joyful. We went. Loyalty

21:43

takes Trump tax. It's like Mike Pence

21:45

and signed on because Trump need to

21:47

get the a bunch illegals but them

21:50

evangelicals are with him so you need

21:52

my pencil anymore? Yeah heritage those guys

21:54

are to find out that all of

21:56

their donors. To. Send.

21:59

Them. Two hundred dollars a

22:01

year. Those people are always Trump and

22:03

Trump doesn't need the Heritage Foundation to

22:05

vouch for him anymore. Yeah, they also

22:08

don't even need the policy sections and

22:10

I was talking to i'm. At.

22:12

Only it's recent on as I used to be

22:14

at want to Think Tanks and Down and they're

22:16

like during the Trump years. They. Were

22:19

arguing that. In. A we

22:21

should be doubling down on on research

22:23

and policy research and we should be

22:25

coming up with a new you know

22:27

mega agenda with ideas and initiatives and

22:30

we should be spending time on that.

22:32

And this person ended up becoming out

22:34

of favor and size that think tank

22:36

because that's not the business that Trump

22:38

is in the Dc brand and like

22:41

the only thing that you're doing by

22:43

putting out a white paper with a

22:45

lot of ideas and in his she

22:47

is is is your just sticking your

22:49

head up. Out in a of the hamster,

22:52

sticking your head up and risking the aiming

22:54

at whacked right? because somebody's gonna take that

22:56

paper and printed out and handed to Donald

22:58

Trump on the golf cart and be like

23:00

look at these our souls of say they're

23:02

speaking for you and this one sentence air

23:04

you don't that's not you you know, like

23:06

that, you know and so that and so

23:08

the think tanks just become like. Gathering

23:11

spaces for dinners and

23:13

and very gallas and

23:15

and endorsements of Donald

23:17

Trump. Indoors as it does have had

23:19

that's the key rights I come out of

23:21

his think tank face. Ragnar serve at a

23:23

bank that was my I was like my

23:25

upbringing and. The point of what's

23:28

the point of it is for their to

23:30

be this ecosystems of the republican president com

23:32

then. You've. Already got the staff,

23:34

the infrastructure. A lot of these people. they

23:36

come into your administration. They've been working in

23:38

the off years to develop plans to push

23:40

forward. It is about policies and the thing

23:42

is is that Trump has reversed that because

23:44

and the reason that they are now mega

23:46

think tanks is that the goal now is

23:48

not to have from his policies that Trump

23:50

can adopt when he becomes Paris it is

23:52

reversed. It is that Trump is gonna say

23:54

whatever the hell Trump says and of much

23:56

people are going to scramble to think I

23:58

have fat cells and. Into actual case for

24:00

whatever it is he wants to do. With

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weddings. You do? Yeah,

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you're gonna have to mute that. You're gonna have to bleep

26:56

the part where you said

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the B word. You're gonna have to

27:00

bleep the part where you said this was the

27:03

greatest, the greatest endorsement we've ever done. We

27:07

got a poll a few days ago. I think

27:09

it was Marist showing Biden

27:12

ahead in the

27:14

five-way race. Right.

27:16

Tied with Trump, I think had to head

27:18

but then ahead five-way because as

27:20

I believe all three of us have said for

27:23

months now, despite the conventional

27:25

wisdom, RFK will take from

27:27

Trump to the extent he takes disproportionately who

27:29

would like to spite the football. You've said

27:32

that. JBO has said that. I'm still undecided.

27:34

I kind of say on this, I

27:37

have a comment both on this and just on the

27:39

election in general from some of the feedback that we

27:41

get from people. I understand some people

27:43

are tuning into a political podcast like this and

27:45

they're like, we want you to tell me exactly

27:47

what's going to happen in six months. And I

27:50

don't know why you're saying Donald Trump's, some people

27:52

tell me Donald Trump's definitely gonna lose. Joe Biden

27:54

is definitely gonna lose. Like

27:57

I was so wrong in 2016. I

27:59

was so wrong. And I just, I

28:01

think that the value of what we're doing

28:03

is trying to, as JBL says, see around

28:05

corners, trying to look at threats. This is

28:07

why, this is why Sarah is doing the

28:09

focus groups and there's probabilities or

28:11

things you can look at and say, and say

28:13

what you think based on the data, but I

28:16

don't want to be blindsided again. So I'm not

28:18

going to go into this stuff fully assured. I've

28:20

changed my mind in the RFK thing twice. Initially,

28:22

I thought he was definitely going to hurt Trump.

28:26

Then I started to change my mind and think

28:28

he was going to hurt Biden because of black

28:30

voters in particular, but also younger voters and some

28:32

other demos. And now I'm starting to

28:34

flip back to the JBL position that he's going to hurt Trump,

28:37

but I don't think it's 100% guarantee. I'm

28:40

glad that my friend Liz Smith is out there

28:42

leading this charge for the Democrats because I think

28:44

that there are some threats out there. And I

28:46

think that the core point that JBL makes that

28:49

I agree with is the inner circle of RFK

28:51

junior support is certainly going to take from Trump.

28:54

Whatever that is, the first 3%, 4%, 5%, the core is going to be mostly people that would

28:59

have not voted or voted for Trump, a handful

29:01

of Bidens. I think there's another

29:03

ring out there of people that might use

29:05

him as an off ramp because of Gaza,

29:07

because of inflation, because Biden's old, whatever. They're

29:09

lower info voters. We see this in all

29:11

the polls. There's some lower info voters that

29:13

are traditionally in the Democratic demos. And

29:16

so I'm worried about that. And those people got to be

29:18

communicated to. And so the new polls

29:20

have started to indicate that this is moving.

29:23

But I think that vigilance is required

29:25

when it comes to RFK junior. That's

29:27

my take. And my take is similar

29:29

but different. So if

29:32

you gave me the choice to have RFK

29:34

in this race or out of this race,

29:37

I would 100% choose out

29:39

of this race. Okay? Because

29:42

he is an unknown

29:45

quantity, right? You want Biden to

29:47

run head to head with Trump,

29:49

right? Because Trump's ceiling seems

29:51

to be this hard 46%. And

29:54

so Joe Biden's got to claw everything

29:56

to get up to 49% because even

29:58

they're going He needs a two

30:01

point he's made two points over in order to

30:03

win the electron If

30:06

you gave me the choice I would want RFK

30:08

out I wouldn't want him in this race Unpredictable

30:11

not a good you don't want it that

30:13

said if he's gonna be in and it

30:15

looks like he's gonna be in Then

30:18

you take it as an opportunity. Sorry. You

30:20

got lemons You're gonna make lemonade out of

30:22

it now You're gonna make lemonade out of

30:24

it because there is an opportunity to say

30:26

to more Trump voters, right? There's a lot

30:29

about RFK that codes Trump that codes mega

30:31

And if you listen to my podcast with a

30:33

stead Herndon, which is a really good one I

30:36

think on RFK where we talked

30:38

to both Biden voters who are leaning

30:40

toward RFK and Trump voters who are leaning

30:42

toward RFK You can see what

30:44

it is about RFK that becomes this foreshock

30:46

test for voters, right? You can see on

30:48

the left They're like well He's a big

30:50

environmentalist guy and he's younger than Biden and

30:52

I think Biden's too old and I'm mad

30:54

at him for XYZ reason And

30:57

he's a Kennedy and also I don't know that much about him

30:59

and I can't tell you the name of his vice presidential running

31:01

Me on the right. However,

31:04

there was a much more hardened interest in

31:06

the fact that Kennedy's name Means

31:08

that he is punching back against the lips.

31:10

He's defying his family. He's going after Democrats

31:12

What do Republicans like more than anything else

31:14

somebody of the libs who's hitting the libs,

31:16

right? They love that and so he's the

31:19

one honest they know he's sort of a

31:21

Democrat But you know who else was sort

31:23

of a Democrat Donald Trump was sort of

31:25

a Democrat if you took me back 10

31:27

years and said Hey Sarah, here are your

31:29

three candidates. They're RFK jr. Donald Trump and

31:31

Joe Biden. I would say where's the Republican?

31:34

Who's the Republican in this race? But because

31:36

of our scrambled political environment RFK really does

31:38

have the and now here's the thing. It's

31:40

gonna be gross You know what to

31:42

pull? RFK voters away

31:45

from Donald Trump think about all

31:47

the gross messaging right think about the how

31:49

it's like Oh Trump sold us

31:51

out on the vaccine Trump

31:54

is the MAGA establishment. Trump

31:56

is Trump's not really pushing

31:59

back against our enemies. We need And we need somebody

32:01

who's not a regular politician. Donald Trump. So,

32:46

I had not thought of that really, but like they

32:48

were, that's how they were seeing

33:00

RFK. And so my point about the

33:02

thing about Liz Smith I think is really true that

33:04

like the idea of,

33:06

of the analysis of like who does

33:08

he pull from right this minute is

33:10

different from how do you mount a

33:12

campaign to ensure that he

33:15

takes more from Trump. Because that is an opportunity.

33:17

I'm not advising the things that I said as messaging

33:19

just by the way. Sure.

33:22

Okay. Well, I'm just saying that if he's going

33:24

to be in, you do have to figure out,

33:26

you can't just sit back and assume that he

33:28

will take from Trump. You do have to affirmatively

33:30

figure out how to, and there's going to be,

33:32

that fight's going to happen, right? The Republicans are

33:34

going to try to make a poll from Dems

33:36

and vice versa. I mean, I stipulate

33:38

all of that, that, you know, you have

33:40

to put in the work and et cetera,

33:42

et cetera. My foundational view

33:45

of this was

33:47

that Republicans looked at

33:49

all of this just overdetermined based on his name,

33:52

like, Oh, Kennedy. So there's

33:54

a vestigial longing for the Kennedy

33:56

family in Democrats that'll take from

33:58

Democrats. But

34:01

the real answer is that he's the craziest son

34:03

of a bitch in the race. And

34:06

Joe Biden is not competing for

34:08

the vote of people who want crazy.

34:11

And Trump now has

34:13

somebody competing for the

34:15

vote of people who want a Rand Paul, right,

34:18

or who want Donald Trump. And

34:21

for those people whose goal is to get the craziest

34:23

son of a bitch in the race and vote for

34:25

him, there now is somebody

34:27

else on the ballot who they could go

34:29

to. And I'm telling you, keep

34:32

a watch on the people in your neighborhoods and in

34:34

your life who put up

34:36

RFK junior flags and stuff over

34:39

the next like four months. They're

34:41

going to be all be the same type of people

34:43

who normally would put

34:46

up a MAGA flag or a QAnon flag

34:48

or something. Here it is. I

34:50

agree with all that. I guess I just want

34:52

to say we just can't forget the other group

34:55

of people that are like David Putty from Seinfeld.

34:57

They're not looking for the craziest son of a bitch

34:59

in the race. They just don't watch the news and

35:02

they just have their jaw gaped and

35:05

their whatever, their end of, you know,

35:07

UFC, and they've used to be Democrats

35:09

their whole life. They voted

35:11

for Obama, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And now

35:14

anyway, there's, I think that there is a

35:17

category of low info voter

35:19

in some democratic demos that I worry about

35:21

that might not have the RFK flag, but

35:23

they might vote for them. So you got

35:25

to make sure those people know that he's willing

35:28

to. Yeah. But

35:30

again, and it doesn't have to be, um, crazy

35:33

son of a bitch in the race so much as

35:35

it can be like the guy who's not the establishment,

35:37

you know, I say this, I knew that DeSantis was

35:39

getting just shanked in the primary

35:41

when they started to voter started to describe

35:44

him as he seems like a regular politician

35:47

because for Republicans, that's like the worst thing

35:49

you can say about somebody. And what they

35:51

loved about Donald Trump is he didn't seem

35:53

like a regular politician. And I think that

35:55

Kennedy can steal some of Trump's thunder on

35:57

the not a regular politician because the longer

35:59

Trump. Trump's in politics, the

36:02

more there's sort of an opening for like, I don't know, now

36:04

Trump's been in politics a long time. All

36:09

right. Uh, move on. We

36:11

got some legislation signed. Joe

36:13

Biden has been the guy to force

36:15

the Chai-coms to sell TikTok. Am

36:18

I the only person who looks around saying, Hey,

36:20

this is something we complained about the Chai-coms with

36:22

all four years under Trump and

36:24

like with infrastructure, Biden's

36:27

the one who gets it done. Yay. I

36:29

don't know. I've been following my friend, Mike

36:31

Gallagher's Twitter feed that closely. Have we seen

36:34

any Atta boys, you know,

36:36

the fake China hot out there on the

36:38

right that they all butch themselves up by

36:40

talking about how the tough they're going to

36:42

be on China. We can't do Ukraine because

36:44

we got to be prepared to for a

36:47

land war in China. Cotton. Cause that's where

36:49

we're, you know, if China does a blockade

36:51

of Taiwan, then we'll be willing

36:53

to send the 92nd airborne into Shanghai. Yeah.

36:57

Tom Marco. Where was this? It

37:00

passed. It passed remarkably with a

37:02

remarkable number of votes. Only 18. Again,

37:04

this is like another one. Only 18 Senate votes.

37:06

Why? Anybody giving Joe Biden credit for this? Uh,

37:10

Bueller, Bueller. I

37:13

don't know. It is wild.

37:15

The politics shifted on. I, I know how

37:17

it is crazy. They may have a theory on why the

37:19

politics of this shifted as quickly

37:22

as it has. It's one from something that people were like, can't

37:25

do this and Biden's not going to sign it.

37:27

Uh, you know, it's going to hurt them with young people. Once

37:30

Biden said he would sign it, that's what shifted

37:32

the politics. Right. Biden said

37:34

he would sign it. And then the

37:36

Republicans passed it 50 zero at

37:39

a conference and that

37:41

was it. Yeah. I don't think, right. That was

37:43

game over. Mark Warner kind of, I was reading

37:45

a long story on this because I was like,

37:47

I'm just, I was like, you said, I'm like

37:49

so confused at how this happened so quickly. Um,

37:52

and Warner has been working on this, you know, said

37:54

that it was like, he would never have predicted it.

37:57

I Just think it was like one of those

37:59

sausage making things. the confluence of events happened and

38:01

can Also we just should say it wouldn't habit

38:04

of my Johnson witness set up these bills like

38:06

this. I and and I

38:08

think that there are. A. Handful of

38:11

people who will never give job

38:13

I'm credit were in the republican

38:15

party for in the legislature who

38:18

are genuinely China hawks. That.

38:20

Genuinely wanted to do something on this and

38:22

that like this. How to make them on

38:24

board for you know getting the very weak

38:26

that half of the conference that Mike Johnson

38:29

got for the a package of things in

38:31

thing to John I think that that was

38:33

part of the motivation those as. A.

38:36

Backbench group of republican congressmen that one

38:38

on this happening. it's international secure in

38:40

some not back and action because of

38:42

the world from the the people that

38:44

lead the security. Subcommittees

38:47

as I think that was happening and

38:49

then I think a lot of democrats

38:51

like weren't pushing this because they were

38:53

like. I. We were

38:55

for this but with that guy since we've

38:57

done this and twenty twenty one like we

38:59

really wanna do this right now we got

39:01

this risk the kids in gaza us and

39:03

say there were some cautious democrats that well

39:05

I'd okay I will be for it. If you're

39:08

gonna put this up and binds us we're going

39:10

to fight were you know he's going to sign

39:12

it like all right I guess what before it

39:15

turns out spinners then there are some other bike

39:17

maria cantwell on Others were like specific criticisms and

39:19

like with things about sex by the I

39:21

think that's basically what happened to. like I

39:23

said before it my Johnson was like. I'm

39:25

want to put their and and and all

39:27

the sudden was like here we are and

39:29

at it it is it it as a

39:31

gets pretty wild exit in this year where

39:34

we like expected nothing the happen. Called.

39:36

A sudden they passes absolutely massive

39:38

thing that can have very real.

39:41

Like. Positive implications national security wise. Like

39:44

the algorithm side of the saying and

39:46

you know has been very concerning. I

39:48

like there's gonna be a lot of

39:50

lawsuits and other miller's all of this

39:52

year for the election. Probably not sick

39:54

in the sky Com still like my

39:56

to tie comes now retaliate. There's not

39:58

an unknown potentially unintended consequences here. But

40:01

yeah, just another example, I was listening

40:03

to UNAB on the dark side JBL, just

40:05

like another example of Joe Biden just

40:07

getting something done during his time. And

40:10

it's like for various reasons, nobody wants to give him

40:12

credit. Republicans can't give him credit because of the politics.

40:14

So the Democrats are still a little nervous about the

40:16

politics of this. They don't want to get out over

40:18

their skis. And so it's just like happening.

40:21

I need to ask though, why can't Republicans

40:23

give him credit? We are perfectly happy to

40:25

give Mike Johnson an enormous amount of credit

40:28

as we have done at the bulwark every

40:30

day for the last week for

40:32

doing the right thing and

40:36

acting responsibly. Right. We're

40:38

all happy to give Mike Johnson credit.

40:41

Why does this treat only run one way? So my

40:43

theory on the reason the politics changed so fast

40:46

is that Republicans were

40:48

happy to pass it because they think it hurts Joe

40:50

Biden and Democrats were happy to pass it because it

40:52

was the right thing to do. And

40:54

that's the asymmetry that where we live,

40:57

right? So Democrats did it against political

40:59

interest. And

41:02

maybe it's because the Democrats weren't putting

41:04

up as big a stink the way

41:06

that Republicans do. Like the

41:08

reason we end up having giving Mike Johnson

41:10

credit is because he's very publicly dealing with

41:13

this oppositional fraction that's going to take his

41:15

job away if he does anything. Whereas

41:18

the Democrats are much more, Joe Biden said he

41:20

would sign it despite the fact that it might

41:22

be a political liability. So the rest of the

41:24

Democrats are like, OK, we do need

41:26

to do this for national security reasons and Republicans,

41:29

given the opportunity to both get what they wanted

41:31

from a national security standpoint and also put

41:33

it on Biden as a

41:35

negative political thing, was a good deal for

41:37

them. I think that's a really astute point. I agree with

41:39

that. Though I just want to say, I don't

41:41

know that it's clear. It's not that clear in

41:43

the data that it hurts Joe Biden. Like

41:46

there's there's a fear that could. Right.

41:50

Like it's, you know, and we're talking about this a little bit more on

41:52

the on the daily tomorrow. We're talking about the

41:54

numbers. You Know, there's some people

41:56

that are pissed about it, but overwhelmingly, people

41:58

are generally generally speaking. Sympathetic to

42:00

this to wanting to do that's really say

42:02

they they are to pollsters us rinsing how

42:05

plays out I just wanna say to my

42:07

towns and I took but though they realized

42:09

it isn't saying I guess I would if

42:12

maybe I'm missing it's a not watching Fox

42:14

all day There's anybody out there that complimenting

42:16

Joe Biden in other now bread bear Guy

42:18

Benson you now and are now Steve Doocy

42:21

their somebody on the network that like job

42:23

I'm really nailed it with us because he

42:25

signed a bill that all that we want

42:27

a all those issues the national security con

42:30

pundits. One of them He. Ukraine.

42:32

Israel, Taiwan, Tic Toc they want all for

42:34

those items if there's one person is complemented.

42:36

Joe Biden on Fox please send that to

42:39

me And the I do want to say

42:41

I'm almost like. A. Tenner A

42:43

twitter over my doubts. Like

42:45

Mike Johnson is under they what's

42:48

happened is that he's apologizing to

42:50

Joe Biden for rolling his eyes

42:52

out. I'm in L is he's

42:54

is taking pictures with Ukraine, Ukrainian

42:56

Christian activists and whole and and

42:58

is talking about doing the right

43:01

thing and and that responsibility of

43:03

governance. Allies are

43:05

just annoying. I don't know. it's have an

43:07

of I'm not sure how I can't my

43:09

right now we are you can I? Just

43:11

and they're making me uncomfortable. It's like when

43:13

I started Dyke Boys little that I'm like

43:15

what element aren't Lear's you? Something to make

43:17

you feel comfortable. describe your feelings of Marco

43:19

Rubio voting against Ukraine Aid package Set of

43:21

is a said. Do you know

43:23

what? This guy? So I had an

43:25

unreleased not yet released. That. This

43:27

is a teaser for the focus. Group that's not even

43:29

coming this week and we did an abortion

43:32

once. Ah, that's really, really good. Ah with

43:34

women in Arizona. But. Demo Amitabh

43:36

want to put out our Florida man present

43:38

form and he just as Marco as like

43:40

in the top two right now for V

43:42

P and that explains is that like explains

43:45

Nancy mates whatever incident wilde to think we're

43:47

coming to a place or Marco Rubio like

43:49

could be like a real contender for Trump's

43:51

Vp. but that's not the food. Ah thanks

43:54

and that's. Why? Mark: Are you going to move?

43:56

They're gonna make a move. Admit,

43:58

they just. Will They are everywhere. just or somewhere

44:00

else. That would be the biggest power move ever. If people

44:02

want to hear Drunk Tim on a podcast, I think it's

44:04

the first time I've been like, actually Drunk, I did love

44:06

it or leave it over the weekend. And,

44:08

um, well, do you have

44:10

to be drunk on that show? But I just had, like, I

44:13

booked it like across from some other obligations and I happened to

44:15

be partying and so I was just, I was like a comedy

44:17

podcast. So I was like, whatever, I'll let it a little loose.

44:20

And, um, uh, about

44:22

an hour in, uh, we, we got

44:24

into the Marco Rubio thing. Um, that's

44:26

pretty funny. People should check it out.

44:28

Uh, but I like the best

44:31

case scenario, the only thing that would make me

44:33

have a single I out of a positive dealing

44:35

towards Donald Trump that I could imagine would be

44:37

for Donald Trump to get him to the final

44:39

two, get him to resign. I

44:45

mean, like that would really, that

44:48

would almost, uh, be, be

44:51

enough to, to, to win me over.

44:53

I mean, like the humiliation of

44:55

Marco at that level is,

44:57

is really appetizing. That's all,

45:00

that's all you. Yeah. My money's still

45:02

on JD, but, uh,

45:04

all right. So do you guys have a

45:06

good choice? Marco is a good choice. The

45:08

more I thought about it, like he

45:10

brings so many of the normies on

45:12

side and Trump

45:15

is old and the extent to

45:17

which the Republican party would salivate,

45:19

like the end, like the establishment

45:21

to get somebody like Marco back

45:24

and like write the ship through

45:26

him. Uh, guarantee

45:28

that Chris Christie would come off the bench and

45:31

endorsed by him. Can

45:33

somebody play that clip for Donald Trump though? If

45:35

anybody, if maybe our Florida man can send this

45:37

over to the Trump team, because Sarah is exactly

45:39

right. The establishment, all the

45:41

people that Donald Trump hate that have secretly

45:43

talked shit about him behind his back would

45:45

be so excited if they picked Marco because

45:48

they would see their path. They'd

45:50

be like, as soon as we're done with

45:52

this guy, either this November or in three

45:54

years, you know, we'll start to kick him

45:56

to the curb. We have our, you know,

46:00

You've anointed Maariv! Given Margaret Marco

46:02

this establishment neo kind of the

46:04

Magath fairy dust. By picking him

46:06

up, people would be so excited

46:09

downtown Can not let these people

46:11

be that happy that this is

46:13

the reason I actually think that

46:15

Marco doesn't work for him. against

46:17

Marco the towns, And in a

46:20

politician, he could in theory assemble

46:22

his own independent power base deviances.

46:24

not. At. All.

46:27

Right? Columbia? just a few miles

46:29

north of me? in town. In

46:31

a bunch of protests and. Allowed

46:34

you guys have thoughts about it all

46:36

seems very bad to me. Ah, the

46:38

bill. Kristol had an excellent. Excellent.

46:41

News. on earlier this week saying like in

46:43

a war against mobs. right?

46:45

And mobs are bad. And

46:47

I don't think we'd send the national guard. Over

46:50

to Columbia Up and Harlem A

46:52

dare! You know I'm I'm.

46:55

The Woods. The Freedom Bees crowd is really

46:57

a senior in jail people as like the

46:59

thought this author is really a yellow like

47:01

there's the I jail, the professors and and

47:04

we gonna take away the V says from

47:06

the students that are it is fitting lawless

47:08

and like okay this is that at the

47:10

front as read out the cheat thing was

47:12

right about how are you to do is

47:14

read with the students for Palestine say in

47:16

their own. Manifestoes.

47:19

Whatever you wanna call at and and their i

47:21

have a vague they want to kill jews like

47:23

that as well as I'm in so not. I

47:25

don't think everybody is a protest us, I think

47:28

that a read the manifesto or whatever but. That's.

47:30

what the leaders of these groups say i

47:32

think the the obviously outside agitators say what

47:35

you want but at least it's an ethos

47:37

the i guess that like they've shut down

47:39

the king at this this you don't really

47:41

know they're doing the had to these universities

47:43

dyke we're going remote now and then it's

47:45

like the teachers are out there and their

47:47

masks open looks like what is that why

47:50

are you in a masked there's a dave

47:52

weigel has a good article on this yesterday

47:54

and the i could have sent statement like

47:56

it's a statement or partly our privacy but

47:58

also the statement against job Biden not

48:00

taking COVID seriously. To

48:02

me, I kind of like want to run that

48:04

as an ad if I'm Joe Biden. It's like

48:07

these campus kids that you think are for me,

48:09

they're actually protesting me and they think that we

48:11

should be wearing masks

48:13

outdoors again. And I don't want to

48:15

do that. I don't think you

48:18

should mask outdoors anymore. And I think these guys are

48:20

a little extreme. I'm Joe Biden and I proved this

48:22

message. I think that'd be a pretty effective ad. So

48:25

I don't know, they're bad. Some of

48:27

the stuff is very overwrought. We talked about this yesterday

48:29

on the podcast with

48:31

Frank Bruni. And there

48:34

are also a lot of

48:36

campuses where this is not happening. I liked the

48:38

poll that came out of the Harvard Youth Poll,

48:40

the good one, not the Mark Penn one, where

48:42

they asked people to rank the issues they cared

48:44

about. And this was like

48:46

13th. It is a loud minority. It

48:48

is a Twitter. It is a Twitter and campus

48:50

protests are not real life type thing. I think

48:53

that there are a lot of campuses where this

48:55

is not happening, but there are some campuses where

48:57

it's really real and the threats against Jewish kids

48:59

are bad. So all of that stuff is true

49:01

at once. Can we talk briefly about the, and

49:03

we had a piece on this on the site. There

49:06

has been this clamor in like

49:09

conservative world, you know, why

49:11

Joe Biden is being silent.

49:14

Where is Joe Biden? And the

49:16

answer is like Biden keeps talking about this and

49:18

he's saying all the right things and saying that this is

49:21

anti-Semitic nonsense and shouldn't be tolerated. I'm sorry, Sarah. I'm going

49:23

to let you go next. I have one more rant on

49:25

this. I've been looking for a vehicle to make this rant.

49:28

Joe Biden put out a great statement on this, which Andrew

49:30

Edgar and Bill put in the newsletter, which you wouldn't go

49:32

read, condemning the anti-Semitic

49:34

protests. Then he was asked on

49:36

a rope line about this. And he

49:38

says like, yes, I condemn

49:41

the protesters. And then he's like,

49:43

and you know, and I also think we should

49:45

condemn people that are not taking seriously the human

49:47

rights violations that are happening in Palestine. And he's

49:49

like trying to keep talking with them. They keep

49:51

shouting at them and asking them another question. And

49:53

he changed any answers to another question. And

49:55

then there are a bunch of people on Twitter, a

49:58

bunch of the conservatives out there were This

50:00

is Joe Biden's, they're very

50:02

good people on each, very fine people on

50:04

each side moment. And I was

50:06

like, do you guys not understand the definition

50:09

of words? Yeah.

50:13

Like, okay, you could say it's a false equivalence

50:15

or whatever, which, you know, we could all just

50:17

debate whether that was a both sides

50:19

thing or a false equivalence. But like, there

50:21

is a category difference between

50:23

saying there are good

50:26

people in both

50:28

of these groups and I condemn both of

50:30

these groups. Like,

50:32

that's not the thing. Joe Biden did not

50:34

get out there and say, I love the

50:37

very fine people shouting anti-Semitic bile at Columbia.

50:39

That's not what he said. So anyway, that annoyed

50:41

me. Yeah. There's

50:45

also just the obvious thing and JBL makes this

50:47

point and now it's a point I think about

50:49

all the time, which is, you know, the

50:53

anti-Semitic folks in Charlottesville, they

50:55

were all Trumpers. And

50:58

the people protesting doing these horrible

51:00

things on campus, they hate

51:03

Joe Biden. They're protesting Joe Biden, right?

51:05

And so like the people who stormed

51:07

the Capitol had Trump flags. The people

51:09

who are storming campus offices are protesting

51:11

Joe Biden and also weirdly wearing masks

51:13

to protest him. And

51:16

I will say, though, I really resist

51:19

and I'm not sure why. I think

51:21

it's because the entire DC media core

51:23

and everybody else like all

51:26

went to these elite schools, like the extent to

51:28

which we think about what is happening on these

51:30

elite campuses. I'm just

51:32

like, who I even come out of this world.

51:34

Like my first job was sort of like campus

51:37

conservative stuff. But

51:39

it is like silly how much like

51:41

what is happening is bad and it

51:43

should be condemned. But like it's weird how the

51:46

campus stuff has been this way the whole time

51:48

gets this like wall to wall coverage.

51:53

But it is I mean, I just

51:55

think there's like a weird obsession with it when

51:58

it's this like small minority

52:00

of people at this small place. Now,

52:03

that is they are places with a lot of they

52:06

are turning out people who have power, which

52:08

is I think why people care, right is

52:10

the people who are the most engaged in

52:12

media have this, but like, the school just

52:15

shut these things down. Everybody is like,

52:17

when it starts to get violent, when it's, there's

52:19

no way it doesn't violate all your codes of

52:21

conduct when there's their manifesto is

52:23

about killing Jews. And like, why

52:26

don't you try teaching these

52:28

kids something like

52:30

about how to have a productive dialogue about this,

52:32

like there are a million legitimate

52:34

points for a lot of different people to

52:36

make. And you should have them

52:38

talk those things through. And it

52:40

would be nice if the schools took a

52:42

little bit of ownership around like, you know,

52:44

educating kids, I would like to give you

52:47

my theory on how to fix all

52:49

of this. And college called

52:51

the C curve. Any

52:55

school where the median grade in every

52:57

single class is curved to a

52:59

C cannot by

53:01

definition have any sort of

53:03

campus protests, because nobody has

53:06

fucking time. It

53:08

turns it into a war of

53:10

all against all. And

53:13

everybody spends every waking minute of

53:16

their lives in the library

53:18

studying the idea that you and college

53:20

have time to protest

53:23

or drink or get high or

53:25

smile or go out into the

53:27

sunlight. Those things are not supposed

53:29

to happen in college. You're supposed to study

53:31

and work and try to beat the secret. I

53:33

have a difference. I have a different. I

53:36

thought we just appreciate the bounty of the free

53:38

market system where people have a lot of choices

53:40

of schools like the free press bars thing as

53:42

an article today that's like, some kids are not

53:44

choosing these elite campuses anymore. And they're going south

53:46

and they think that's a big own. And I'm

53:48

kind of like, great. Cool.

53:51

Fewer kids applying to Columbia. Like this

53:53

is awesome. Like this is the boundary

53:55

American system. I live three blocks from

53:57

Loyola. I've walked by it every

53:59

day. Nobody's occupying Loyola,

54:01

New Orleans's campus. Nobody

54:03

is shouting anti-Semitic bile at anyone. There

54:05

are no trash can fires. There

54:10

are schools like that all across this great land. We

54:12

have a great higher education system. Yeah, you know what else? I

54:15

bet at good old Kenyon College, they're holding

54:17

just student forums and letting everybody talk, you

54:19

know? And working out. John Tompkins,

54:22

they're all in their underground library

54:24

studying. Nobody even knows that there's

54:26

a war happening anyway. I

54:29

do agree with JBL that directionally, never

54:31

on the specifics, but directionally, that

54:34

the idea of just like, everyone should have more homework.

54:36

Like, people have too much time on their hands. And

54:39

we're raising too many kids to

54:41

like be protesters and not enough

54:43

of them to think critically and

54:45

be able to like... Well, that's

54:48

not true. This goes back to the simple 8-6. No, but

54:50

I liked your triad where you demanded

54:52

of yourself to take the opposite

54:54

side. Like, the idea of

54:57

having a forum where you take

54:59

people, make them the opposite argument.

55:02

Which isn't to say these aren't like

55:04

deeply held moral issues for everybody, but

55:06

like, we should be... The job of

55:09

these educators is to help

55:11

them channel these things productively and to turn

55:13

them into like literally teachable

55:15

moments. No, it's not.

55:17

Their job is to get them into medical school. And I just

55:19

want to say one more thing on this, just to be earnest.

55:22

Just to be earnest. Protest, great. I

55:25

do not share JBL's view. You should be doing homework

55:27

all the time. If you want to protest the hunger

55:29

and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza,

55:31

great. There are a lot of humanitarian crises out

55:33

there. That is one. It's very bad. I agree

55:36

with that. There are serious things. Protest

55:39

it. Go protest. There's

55:41

this thing called the protesters dilemma. It's like,

55:43

oh, we need to protest in these

55:45

really ostentatious ways because it gets us

55:47

attention. Is this good attention?

55:49

Do you guys feel like you have good attention? There's Joe

55:51

Biden events. Are you

55:53

advancing your position right now? Yeah. Go

55:56

project the UN is right there in

55:58

New York. Find

56:00

out the piece out the UN with a

56:02

sign that has a picture of starving babies

56:05

and spend a couple hours out there

56:07

and do good and sign petitions. That's

56:09

great. But like, you know, we

56:11

don't don't fucking try to scare kids in

56:13

Yarmulke. All right. Fucking

56:15

bullshit. All right. Good show.

56:18

Long show. I'm very proud of myself for

56:20

making it through. Good

56:22

to see you guys. He just was like drinking

56:24

cough syrup. Have you seen that? Is that a

56:26

tincture? Yeah, I'm doing well. I'm telling these guys it's

56:28

a 12 hour cough

56:30

relief, extra super duper special. And

56:33

the directions say in bold

56:35

print, do not take

56:38

more than 20 milliliters in any 24

56:40

hour period. And I've just

56:42

been doing shots of this like

56:44

a fucking Patron just to

56:46

get through the show. So things that you don't actually

56:48

do. I don't have to turn. I

56:51

do have that. Especially because we got a show in Philly next

56:53

week. Big show

56:55

in Philly. If you guys are out, if you're anywhere

56:57

in that tri-state area, come out and

56:59

see us. So excited. We'll see you

57:02

then. What are we going to do? What are the

57:04

three of us going to do? We need to do

57:07

one silly thing for three of us. What

57:09

do you want to do? Do

57:11

you want to go to the new Allen Iverson statue? I

57:14

want a statue for the answer. Let's

57:16

go privately. Okay. Okay. I'll

57:19

be right back. Okay.