This episode with Massimiliano (Max) de Zambotti came about when I found his paper on comparing the Oura ring against the gold standard of sleep assessment, polysomnography.  

Being the curious type, I clicked his name on the Pubmed link and found a whole list of papers he's worked on.  As it turns out, he studies insomnia up at SRI and is deeply and narrowly focused on understanding mechanisms of insomnia.

We cover wearable sleep tech and how accurate it is, where it's accurate vs where it ain't, and then dove into his work, from adolescent insomnia to menopausal insomnia. 

If you missed some of the big words, or the list of what behaviors have the biggest effect on sleep (hint:  It's not the top secret cold water keto rainbow cure), or you just want to remember what Max's favorite strategies for sleep are without having to take notes every 7 seconds, sign up at the Deep Diver level on my Patreon feed.

Finally, before we hung up the phone I asked him if there is any technology he sees coming down the pipe.  I'll put that bonus episode (just under 9 minutes long and covering 2 wild pieces of tech he's excited about) on Patreon for my Patrons only.   Thank you for your support!