0:08

Welcome to the No Film School

0:10

Podcast. We are continuing our coverage

0:12

of the Sundance Film Festival and

0:14

the Slamdance Film Festival here in

0:16

Park City. And today's episode is

0:19

one of my favorites of the

0:22

entire year. This is kind of

0:24

a No Film School tradition to

0:26

bring a bunch of cinematographers together

0:28

to talk about their films. And

0:30

we have three very different DPs

0:33

joining us today from three

0:35

very different films, which they actually speak to

0:37

when they introduce themselves. And we

0:39

talk a lot about, one,

0:41

their process, everything from how

0:44

they booked the job to

0:46

what filters they ended up choosing for

0:49

the final look of the film, et

0:51

cetera. And we also get

0:53

into how to be a leader on

0:55

set, how to build a team and

0:58

how set morale really is a top

1:01

down situation, a trickle

1:03

down situation. So I will

1:06

let our cinematographers do the

1:08

talking. Here's our interview. Welcome

1:18

everyone to the No Film School Podcast. This

1:20

is one of my favorite podcasts

1:22

of the year. It's our Sundance DP

1:26

Roundtable. Every time we

1:28

do this, it's just a wealth of

1:30

knowledge and good vibes. And

1:32

we're so excited to have you. We have

1:34

folks returning to the podcast. We have folks

1:37

joining us for the first time. We have

1:39

folks from Sundance and Slamdance. So

1:41

let's go ahead and introduce ourselves.

1:43

And with your introduction, your

1:45

role on the film and what the film is

1:48

about. Hi,

1:50

my name is Bruce Francis

1:52

Cole. I'm a cinematographer. My

1:54

film was Suncoast. This

1:56

was our world premiere. And

1:59

our film is Basically, a

2:01

coming of age story that

2:04

centers around a controversial case

2:06

of right to die. The case was about

2:10

a woman named Terry Shivo. And so

2:12

our coming of age story centers around

2:14

that event where our character shares

2:17

a hospice with this woman, or

2:19

her brother shares a

2:21

hospice with this woman. He has

2:23

terminal cancer. And it's

2:26

basically just about how her and her

2:28

mother deal with grief in very

2:30

separate ways. And in the

2:32

midst of all of it, she meets an

2:34

eccentric character played by Woody Harrelson, who

2:37

is a pro-lifer who tries

2:39

to convince her that life is much bigger than

2:42

what she thinks her teenage life is about.

2:46

Hi, thank you for having me. My

2:48

name is Alejandro Machia. I'm the Cinematographer

2:50

of In the Summers. And

2:53

it is premiering at the US Dramatic

2:55

Competition. And it's

2:57

a narrative film about a dad that

2:59

lives in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and

3:01

two daughters that they come to visit

3:03

him every summer. And it's

3:06

like four summers, like four chapters on

3:08

the film. And it's played the

3:11

daughter's character by three groups of

3:13

actors. And the

3:15

main character is Resivente. That is

3:17

like a huge Latino singer

3:19

from Calle Tresse. Now it's

3:22

his first time as an actor. And

3:25

then it's also Sasha Calle on the film.

3:28

And Leo Mio, I

3:30

don't remember that she, your lecture, won

3:32

the best actor last year. And

3:41

yeah, I think that's it. We

3:43

had Leo on the podcast, as well

3:45

as Vuk, the director of Mutt, the

3:48

film that they won the best performance

3:50

with right before the festival. And then

3:52

we caught up with them in the

3:56

weeks of the film actually coming out in

3:58

theaters. And so it's so fun. fun to

4:00

see full circle how they're

4:02

back with another film. Another

4:05

funny note is we are sharing the

4:08

same editor. Oh really? Oh my gosh.

4:11

Is it Casey Fitzgerald? No, it's Adam.

4:13

I forgot his last name. But yeah,

4:16

it's the same editor as Matt, and so it's

4:19

funny. He's

4:21

back also second sentence. This

4:23

is my third time here, by the way. I've been here 2018 and

4:25

2021 with other projects. Would

4:29

you want to name them? Yeah, one was 306

4:32

Follywood, that it was a hybrid documentary. I actually

4:34

made a roundtable with the directors on that time

4:36

with No Film School. And

4:38

then the other one is Son of

4:40

Monarchs, that it was 2021 narrative film

4:42

with Mexican scientists obsessed

4:47

with the monarch butterflies. Welcome back. Thank

4:49

you. Hey,

4:51

I'm Sean Madison. I'm a director

4:53

in DP, and we are premiering.

4:56

We premiered our US premiere of

4:58

Petro, which is about the Colombian

5:00

president, Gustavo Petro, and

5:03

his election campaign. And

5:05

it's interesting, actually, because there is also

5:07

a film about Francia Marquez, Igua Lada,

5:09

that just premiered at Sundance.

5:11

So we have these sort of parallel stories

5:14

about this historic election in Colombia,

5:17

where Petro is a

5:19

former guerrilla, and demobilized in

5:21

the early 90s, and then went

5:23

into party politics, and became the

5:25

mayor of Bogota in 2011, and

5:28

then ran for president unsuccessfully twice,

5:31

and lost, and then in 2021, we

5:33

saw some early polling that said that

5:35

he might have a chance of winning,

5:37

which seemed like

5:40

it would be unprecedented. And we had filmed

5:43

with him way back in 2007 when

5:45

we were college students. And so

5:47

we actually, and we were shooting on HVX200s at

5:50

the time with the P2 cards and everything.

5:53

And we still had all of that footage.

5:56

And so we decided to kind of

5:58

come full circle with this project. 15

6:00

years later and make a film

6:02

that's kind of a combination of his

6:04

life story and the political history

6:07

of Columbia and then this campaign in 2022.

6:10

I actually moved down to Columbia for over a

6:13

year to work on this. So I was

6:15

the co-DP of the film with our good

6:17

friend Tom Lefé. He's

6:19

based in Bogota and we spent a year

6:21

on the campaign trail just following the whole

6:24

process and it was really fascinating.

6:26

Unlike these guys

6:28

with narrative films, it was much more, I mean,

6:30

I'm sure you guys have shot docs as well,

6:32

but it was much more run and gone and

6:34

kind of, you know, we could get into the

6:37

equipment side of it later. But I, you know,

6:39

it was interesting just to be

6:41

constantly trying to follow the action in

6:43

that way and not necessarily being

6:45

able to plan ahead as much as we

6:48

would have liked, you know, you couldn't necessarily

6:50

compose the frames we wanted. It was sort

6:52

of like, there's an old expression

6:54

in the photojournalism world, which is F8 and

6:56

B there. And it was always kind

6:58

of like, okay, just get the shot. And, you know,

7:01

there's times where I would have liked for us to be

7:03

able to make it prettier than it was, but sometimes

7:06

the story comes first. So yeah,

7:08

that's kind of the overview. And my

7:10

first time here was at Sundance in

7:13

2017. I was a camera

7:15

operator on a documentary called 500

7:17

years by Pamela Yates. So it's

7:20

really cool to be back in Park City and

7:22

at Slamdance. My

7:24

first question for you all is, how

7:26

did you book the job? And I think actually,

7:28

Sean, you were

7:30

there from the beginning, it sounds like. So I

7:32

don't know if there was ever even a question

7:35

of whether you'd do it or not. Yeah. I

7:37

mean, we didn't, you know, we came up with

7:39

the film ourselves and then we had to go

7:41

out and raise money for it. And that was

7:43

a really challenging process because we didn't

7:45

have the full budget in place for the film

7:48

when we started. And it seemed like every time

7:50

that we were running out of money and didn't know how we

7:52

were going to pay crew, like just

7:54

some miracle happened and we got in touch

7:56

with somebody or vice versa who gave us

7:59

just, you know, a little bit of money. bit of extra support that

8:01

we needed to keep going. So yeah,

8:04

a lot of this was about fundraising

8:06

independently for us. And we were lucky

8:08

to partner with three different EPs who

8:10

came in with some funding and also

8:13

had a fiscal sponsorship where we were getting

8:15

donations to the project and that kind of

8:18

thing. So yeah, but it was

8:20

a challenge every step of the way. How

8:23

about you two? How did you book the job? Yeah,

8:26

on my project, one of the producers,

8:28

Dan, he watched the

8:30

films of Monarchs here and then

8:32

he was following my work

8:34

and then he connected me at

8:36

the end of 2022 and he was

8:41

like, I want to meet you. And it was

8:43

just like a classic meeting with a

8:45

producer on Zoom. I was in Mexico that

8:47

time, I was taking the winter break there.

8:50

And then we were just like, yeah, debating on things

8:52

and knowing each other. And then at the very end,

8:54

he was like, Oh, I think I have a

8:56

script that maybe you would like that is in the

8:59

summers. And I think you could be

9:01

a good fit with a director. And I was like, yeah, it's

9:03

a perfect time now that I can read

9:05

it. And then I want to start the year with

9:07

a project. So

9:10

then I read the script. I was

9:12

very interesting, very personal. And also I

9:14

was very curious about Las Cruces, New

9:16

Mexico, because I've been in New

9:18

York for 13 years. And it's

9:20

always kind of the same visuals. Of course, I

9:23

traveled other places, but I never been in Las

9:25

Cruces. So that was one thing that it

9:27

was very attractive. Then I met with a director

9:29

when I was back in New York, she lives there. And immediately

9:32

we was a good connection. She's

9:34

Colombian American. So it was

9:37

also the Latino world. And it was like,

9:39

okay, I think I can do that. And

9:43

then of course the agent thing and all that to book the job. And

9:45

the other thing that I

9:47

was very sold, of course, was resident.

9:49

I was very curious because that's someone

9:51

that I admire from like

9:54

long time ago, which is also so funny because

9:56

like 20 years ago, I was in Mexico directing

9:58

a TV show like a music show. music, like

10:01

it was like a little concert, like kind of the

10:03

Jules Verlaine Latin American version.

10:06

The Calle trece play on that, and we're doing

10:08

like mini interviews, and in that interview, he said,

10:10

one of my dreams is to do film, and

10:13

it's in YouTube, and then the other

10:15

day I was playing to him that, so we

10:17

kind of like no full circle back 20 years

10:19

later, where on a project, he

10:22

was also very curious and one of the first questions

10:24

was like, who's the VP? So

10:27

then he asked me to, he asked to meet

10:29

me, because he usually works

10:31

with another super talented Mexican, the

10:34

Pepe Avila Del Pino, who

10:36

shots House of Dragons and like big TV shows.

10:39

So, and we're close friends, we both live in New

10:41

York, and then I was on a cab with Pepe,

10:43

and he's like, where's your next break? And I told

10:45

him, that's with René, and he's like,

10:47

oh, he's asking me if I know you,

10:49

look at the text message. Oh my gosh.

10:51

And then I was like, yeah, you're in

10:53

good hands, immediately told René, so that was

10:55

like kind of a lucky thing, then

10:58

we made like a camera test and we connect,

11:00

and yeah, and then, and the other thing that

11:02

was very important because that my

11:04

next meeting was the one, one of

11:06

the biggest producers that it was Alex

11:08

Dinalaris, who wrote or

11:11

co-wrote Bergman, and he's

11:13

executive producer also of Revan, and very close

11:15

friends with Inarritu. So I was

11:17

also, I want to meet him, also I went for

11:19

lunch in New York to talk, because

11:21

he was like, yeah, we have to decide who's going to be

11:23

the VP, was not only like, and we're

11:26

looking for a VP with experience, because

11:29

he's first time director, and we saw your work, and

11:31

he was, I think, my sixth movie with first time

11:33

director, so I'm a little better on that than

11:36

now. So, and we also connect,

11:38

and I was very curious about knowing his

11:40

work, and also like, yeah, life story, and

11:42

I ended up, yeah, booking the job and

11:44

being very lucky, I think. While

11:48

the world is, and how that

11:51

texting moment in the cab, and you're like, how

11:54

about you, Ruth? So yeah,

11:57

I guess in the

11:59

summer of... I think it was 2022, or

12:02

actually I think it was maybe a spring of 2022. I

12:06

was up for a film that ended up getting

12:08

into Sundance 2023, but

12:11

I ended up losing the film. So

12:13

I was here at the labs doing a

12:15

program at the labs during the summer, and

12:19

I got a call from my agent and says she

12:21

had another project. Actually at the last

12:23

minute, it was great. So she sent me

12:25

a script and told me it was a

12:27

really cool film that the script was on

12:29

the black list, and that it was

12:31

a first-time director, and that she thought I could really

12:33

connect the material, and I did. So

12:35

I read the script, fell in

12:38

love with it, and had a pitch with

12:40

the producers and the director, and

12:42

they loved me. So I think

12:44

after I finished the labs that summer,

12:47

I was on a road trip going across country

12:49

trying to find myself. I

12:51

got to LA and got an apartment. As soon

12:53

as I got an apartment, they were like,

12:55

okay, we need you in South Carolina. So

12:58

yeah, I flew to South Carolina and

13:00

did the film the winter of 2022.

13:06

That comparts. I feel like that timing makes sense.

13:08

Yeah, 2022 because we just left 2023. So

13:12

yeah, and then 2023 was all the editing. It

13:16

took them a long time

13:18

to finish the edit, but it turned

13:20

out well because yeah, this winter of

13:22

2023 is obviously when we found out

13:24

we were beginning the Sundance. Awesome.

13:29

I love how you mentioned Alejandro,

13:31

that specifically in your film, you

13:34

were interested in capturing the

13:36

visuals of Las Cruces, which is

13:38

in New Mexico. Each of your

13:40

projects are set in a very

13:43

specific world where place is part

13:45

of the story. First in

13:48

Suncoast, even though it's set

13:50

in Florida, you only had a few days

13:52

to shoot in Florida. Instead, you're shooting in

13:54

Charleston, shooting Charleston as Florida, which is very

13:57

interesting. Shooting in New Mexico and of course,

13:59

shooting in Columbia, I'd love to talk

14:01

about how you sort of established

14:03

the world through visuals, given that

14:05

like place was so much part

14:08

of the story that you were

14:10

telling. So with

14:12

our film, Suncoast, very early on

14:15

we were looking for references to

14:17

what Florida we wanted Florida to

14:19

feel like because Laura's from there. So

14:21

she had a very distinct memory

14:24

about what she felt like

14:26

it felt like for her. It

14:30

was a combination of her not wanting

14:32

things to be very crispy

14:34

and clear. She wanted it

14:36

to feel a little bit like a memory.

14:38

And so we were struggling

14:40

to try to find that perfect image.

14:43

And it took us a while, but

14:45

finally, I stumbled across a

14:47

series of old postcards, vintage postcards

14:49

from the 50s by this guy

14:51

named John Hindi. They had

14:54

the perfect amount of saturation because

14:56

at the time that he was promoting Florida

14:58

is like this beautiful place to come. But

15:01

because they were vintage, the color

15:03

had withered away

15:06

a little bit and then the edges of the postcards

15:08

were a little bit frayed.

15:10

And so that was our

15:12

base for trying to figure out how

15:15

we wanted Florida to feel. And so

15:17

that coupled with just knowing what the

15:19

houses look like in

15:22

Florida versus what we're shooting in

15:24

Charleston, South Carolina. We were

15:26

able to just sort of keep that in

15:28

mind as we were shooting in Charleston, Charleston,

15:31

South Carolina, and just remembering that there was

15:33

this presence of like the

15:35

ocean always in Florida. And how

15:37

do we incorporate that blue undertone

15:39

and blue skies in Florida when we were shooting

15:42

in like Swampi, South Carolina? Yeah,

15:44

well, definitely. I was fooled completely.

15:46

I was like, shooting in Florida,

15:48

tell me all about it. Yeah.

15:52

How about you? Yeah, for us it

15:54

was, I think Las Cruces is a

15:56

character on the film, definitely. And we

15:58

were lucky because we... went for

16:00

the first counting was late February.

16:03

We showed like May, June there.

16:06

So, but it was also

16:08

a very different light. It was the winter and

16:10

they told me in the summer is, and

16:12

I know that because in Mexico is very similar,

16:14

like the sun moves very fast

16:17

and it's a very hard light. So,

16:19

that was the first thing that for

16:21

me was like very interesting. And

16:24

I think now it's a little bit

16:26

of a trend that is like everything needs to

16:28

be soft light and we're scared

16:30

of hard light. Sometimes when they put the

16:32

direct light and everything

16:36

wants to be dark, no, it's like my feeling.

16:38

So, and when I went there, it was like

16:40

completely the opposite. So, and

16:43

then, yeah, what was very interesting was

16:45

all these locations because it's like, like

16:47

an old school mini trashy

16:51

place in the middle of nowhere. But

16:53

also with these beautiful landscapes like white sands

16:55

we were shooting there. So,

16:57

it was like all the influence was like, I think

16:59

by the place, no? Trying for me. Of

17:02

course, I was like, oh, I wish we could

17:04

shoot right now in February. When the light, it

17:06

was beautiful, no? And the very blue,

17:08

deep skies. When I went there,

17:10

it was gray or like, no,

17:12

but I embraced the hard light a lot,

17:15

which is something that I

17:17

went with. Then the other thing is like, I

17:19

tried to be completely out

17:21

of the classic border

17:23

look of sepia, yellowish

17:26

thing. And I went

17:28

more like in cold tones in some parts

17:30

of the color correction. And

17:33

then, yeah, we revisit like some books.

17:35

Like I'm also a very obsessed still

17:38

photography book collector. And I always

17:40

try to show that to directors too. As

17:42

a references, I prefer that. I

17:44

come also, my background is still photography. So

17:46

I feel more strong than then revisiting movies.

17:48

I feel like we're going to copy something

17:51

that is like, no? So

17:53

we, yeah, it was

17:55

two books, one by a Finnish photographer.

17:58

I forgot the name now, but the book. it's

18:00

called Nexus, it is in

18:02

the 90s and it's like medium format, possible

18:05

at photos of like the border. And

18:08

it was very interesting, like available light. And

18:11

so, and the director was very

18:13

clear that he was, I want to make

18:15

the most realistic, honest, and

18:17

I think one of my signatures there was like,

18:19

okay, yeah, I can't tell you all that. And

18:22

yeah, and the end is just replicating the reality.

18:24

You know, I tried to observe the light in

18:26

the location, how it's behaving and then I recreate.

18:30

We just premiered now. And it was funny that

18:32

when people comes and say, you really use

18:34

light? And I was like, yeah, great. I

18:37

made it because of course I need to use lights because the

18:39

sun is moving all day long. And one of

18:41

the main characters is a house. So I was

18:44

recreating that natural light on that. I

18:48

was actually curious about filtration for both of

18:50

your films, like how the light and everything

18:52

and the, you know, the reference you were

18:54

talking about earlier with the postcards, like what

18:57

kind of filters you guys used on your films and

18:59

what you chose. Because you were saying

19:01

you wanted to go against the softness and a lot of

19:03

people try to go towards that. And

19:06

so I was just curious what filters you guys

19:08

might have used. Yeah. I mean,

19:10

I'm in that sense, I'm very, yeah, like

19:14

old school because I think that lenses for me

19:16

are, it's like, it's very expensive

19:18

glass and the filters are cheap compared

19:20

to lenses. No. So sometimes it's like

19:22

what I'm going to like, take that

19:24

quality of the lens. So

19:26

I, and now we have also internal filters,

19:28

like the NDs that of course we use

19:31

for that. But I use

19:33

the Rota Pola a lot, even in

19:35

interiors or even portraits

19:37

sometimes of like framing. I love how

19:40

it looks, even if it's kind of against

19:42

the technique, but I only use

19:45

that like the Rota Pola. And

19:47

then by that, another important thing is like, I think the

19:50

previous work before we start

19:52

shooting that I made with my colorist, that

19:55

I love Kath Rash from company three,

19:58

that we developed like the loop. So

20:01

how I do that is I do a

20:03

camera test, then I have this

20:05

app on my iPad because there

20:08

are an iPhone that

20:10

has all these filters of like

20:13

a still photography like Portra 160, Kodak

20:16

Chrome, and then the test I

20:18

start to play and sometimes I combine like a

20:20

lot of that filters and then I get into

20:22

a point, which also the iPad

20:24

Pro has a very good reference for as you

20:27

know when we look color and remotely, they say

20:29

you have an iPad Pro is like the best

20:31

way you can. Then I send

20:33

that to the colorist and then it's when

20:35

like she comes back with like a lot and

20:37

then we kind of make like

20:39

three, four, five different ones like more

20:41

blue or more warm. Then on

20:44

set I'm choosing and moving around. But

20:46

then the editor and the

20:48

director and everyone start to be in

20:50

the mode of that loop. Because

20:53

if noise like six months later, they're editing

20:55

and without the loop and then when you

20:57

put it again, they're like, no, no, no.

21:00

So that's kind of the process

21:02

and I was lucky that I could do that

21:04

because I know of course as budgetary

21:06

restriction, sometimes you cannot do that. But

21:09

that's a good way for me to play and try to

21:11

establish the loop. Yeah,

21:14

I feel the same way about like filters. I

21:16

mean, but at the same time I'm old

21:19

school as well. Like I love in camera

21:22

filters in terms of like,

21:24

if you know what you're going for, I

21:27

think it's a great way to commit. There's

21:30

something beautiful about the

21:32

analog process of having a canceling

21:35

filter in front of your frame or in sorry,

21:37

in front of your lens. Particularly

21:40

if you're going for something that's warm

21:42

or something that's like bluer. I'm sure

21:44

younger DPs out here would argue with me

21:47

all day about like, which one is better

21:49

to have more control or like less control.

21:52

But I've had experiences on

21:54

films before where you

21:57

don't commit and. later

22:00

on, you leave that

22:02

decision up to other people who

22:04

might not understand what

22:07

you've built into the nature of your

22:09

language. And then you end

22:11

up getting like what's what we, you know,

22:14

what they call in TV a lot like

22:16

a tonal difference, right? Which is like, wait,

22:19

this part of the film has a certain voice and this

22:21

part has a certain voice. And so

22:23

I think it's really nice when the DP in

22:25

an old school way can follow through the process

22:27

and like maintain that voice. So

22:30

for me, again, Laura was

22:32

really adamant about not wanting things

22:35

to look really clear because I think she

22:37

had just come from television. And

22:39

I do television a lot as well. And

22:42

so I was aware that, you know,

22:44

having a high resolution and a very

22:46

sharp image could feel less cinematic

22:49

and less like a memory on screen.

22:52

And so rather than putting everything into a

22:54

post production process, I mean, we definitely built

22:56

a lot with my colors out Alex Bickle

22:58

out of Color Corrective New York. He's

23:00

great. But we chose to

23:03

do a series of tests with different glass so

23:06

that the look would be built into the

23:08

glass. And we were fortunate enough to

23:10

be able to shoot right at

23:12

a time when the industry was a

23:15

little bit, you know, running a little

23:17

low on productions. And so

23:19

Kessel was able, Kessel camera was able

23:21

to get us a set of Hawk

23:23

V lights, which have a lot

23:25

of character. They have the, you know, obviously the

23:27

bokeh is happening. And then you have, if

23:30

you're shooting at certain F stops or

23:33

T stops, rather, the edges of the frame

23:36

start to take on this, what do

23:38

we call it, like lens distortion, sort

23:40

of like blurring. And so,

23:42

you know, at first I will admit that

23:44

like it was a big deal because when

23:47

we shot the test, the studio

23:49

wanted to see the test. And

23:51

so I think I sort of offered

23:54

up, Hey guys, by the way, you know, there's

23:56

this thing happening on the edges. And

23:59

I think I'm I ended up signing

24:01

off this alarm that probably wouldn't have sounded

24:03

off before. And so all of a sudden,

24:05

all these emails started coming out about, hey,

24:07

we got to check the edges of the

24:09

frame. Oh, can we see the test again?

24:11

Like, well, okay, we need to make sure

24:13

that you're not putting any important information. So

24:15

it became this huge thing. But

24:18

I think in the end, the producers really

24:21

trusted me and they

24:23

saw the test that we did. And

24:26

they basically said, okay, well, let's

24:29

figure out this game plan. So early on in

24:31

shooting, we were very cautious about putting

24:33

things in the top of the frame and in

24:35

the bottom of the frame. And as

24:37

we went on, we became less and less

24:39

concerned about it. And I think it fell

24:41

back into a natural flow. Whereas when

24:43

I'm watching the film, I'm like, oh, that was at the

24:45

beginning of the movie because we gave a

24:48

lot of headroom, way more than we probably needed to.

24:50

But yeah, so we chose the lenses that had

24:52

the character built into them. I

24:55

want to hear about Goa Felter. So

24:57

in Petro, we really, getting back

24:59

to your original question, we traveled

25:02

all over the country and Columbia is

25:04

a very diverse place. There's

25:07

a ton of different geography between

25:09

the Amazon, the Pacific coast,

25:11

the Caribbean and Atlantic coast. Crochetat

25:13

Medellin, the Medellin. Yeah, the Anteochea.

25:15

Somebody beautiful. I mean, every region

25:17

you go to in Columbia has

25:19

its own character, its own vibe,

25:22

even differences in light

25:24

and everything. And so what was

25:26

really great about being on the

25:28

campaign trail is that Petro's travel

25:30

schedule was relentless. And

25:33

sometimes we didn't really know where we

25:35

were going until the day before. And

25:37

so with the crew, we always

25:40

had a bag ready in case we had to

25:42

go to the airport and fly out somewhere. And

25:45

so there was always kind of this surprise element to

25:47

where we were going. And I was

25:49

shooting and directing and producing.

25:51

So I mean, not field producing, but

25:54

in general wearing multiple hats. But

25:57

I was always trying to think about these.

26:00

places as like they were saying with

26:02

Las Cruces as a character. I'm

26:05

a big fan of like Terrence Malek

26:07

and other directors who, and I think

26:09

Inarritu would be another example of directors

26:11

who focus on highlighting

26:14

subtle details about a place.

26:16

So we could

26:18

have been in the middle of a big political rally,

26:20

but if I saw off or if Tom

26:22

saw off in the corner of some little

26:25

flourish or detail of wildlife or some

26:29

kind of other thing that we could capture that

26:31

allowed us to bring the audience

26:33

into the place, then we went and got

26:35

that. So, you know, it

26:37

was also learning to be patient

26:39

of not always wanting to be following

26:42

the character and being

26:45

sort of like a paparazzi, but

26:47

rather looking around us and being

26:49

having that sort of situational awareness

26:51

of, you know, what elements can

26:53

we bring into it visually that will bring

26:56

the audience into this world. And so

26:59

yeah, that was a big factor for

27:01

us. I'd love to

27:03

hear about the biggest technical challenge that you

27:05

had to overcome. Yeah.

27:09

Projects. I mean, we

27:11

shot on the C300 Mark III

27:13

and used the Canon C70 as a B camera. And

27:18

that was really like if we were kind of

27:21

getting tight spaces, trying to shoot audience

27:23

reactions. So

27:25

we basically, we used a

27:27

variety of different lenses throughout production,

27:30

but I would say technical challenges. I mean,

27:32

we really, I think

27:35

the challenges were more logistical and

27:37

production related than technical, like all

27:39

of the equipment held up

27:41

really well. And, you know, I think

27:44

probably dealing with, you

27:46

know, sound was probably a bigger

27:48

issue than the visual side. But

27:51

I think having two cameras in

27:53

the field at all times was really good. I

27:56

mean, a lot of times when I'm working on

27:58

projects, ends up being a single camera. But

28:00

in this case, we're going to these

28:02

massive events and

28:04

you really want to be

28:06

able to have multiple vantage points. That

28:09

was what was so great about working with

28:11

Tom is, we were handling

28:14

the DP duty together and

28:17

communicating about what we thought was important in

28:19

the moment. Sometimes he'd be 50 yards away

28:21

and we'd be signaling each to each other

28:23

about what we wanted to go and grab.

28:27

It was, like I said, probably

28:29

more logistically challenging than technically

28:31

so. Yeah,

28:34

we showed on the Alexa 35 and

28:37

the movie cam lenses that are

28:40

exclusive. Yeah, I fall in love with that

28:42

lenses when I made the test

28:44

because they are the René Resiliente face,

28:46

the way they render, because

28:49

he has a very particular face. I

28:51

try almost 10 or 12 sets of lenses.

28:56

But that was the one that immediately was like a

28:59

60 mil that shooting in that

29:01

open gate, it was like a 47, something like

29:03

that, and it was perfect

29:05

like a portrait lens. We love

29:08

the director and I immediately were like, yeah, these

29:10

are the lenses. The

29:12

most technical challenges, yeah, we have a lot

29:14

of car scenes and there was one particular,

29:16

we have a car accident, I don't want

29:18

to spoil the movie, but by night in the middle

29:20

of nowhere and it's like, okay, how are you going

29:22

to light that? No one has nothing that

29:25

you can use as an available light,

29:27

only the moonlight. So we needed

29:30

to build like this big

29:32

softbox with, I think we're

29:34

like 15 sky panels and a

29:36

condor crane in the middle of nowhere,

29:39

bringing extra crew from Santa Fe

29:42

and then just do

29:44

two days of that car crash scene.

29:48

It was a challenge for sure because you're in

29:50

the middle of nowhere and like, just to go

29:52

to the restroom is like a 10 minute drive

29:55

to a base camp and like, no. And

29:59

that was, yeah, a big. challenge also like a

30:01

funny, you know, not that funny note.

30:04

We ended up like at 7 AM almost

30:06

at the sunrise and I don't

30:08

know why they forgot to tell the

30:10

police that they're going to take

30:12

out of the car like later

30:14

and they left the car there. So people

30:16

thought that it was a real accident. And

30:18

then at some point, like all the firefighters

30:20

and ambulances there were there. It was so

30:22

embarrassing that they were looking for

30:25

us. And of course everyone was sleeping

30:27

after. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

30:29

That's a good story. Yeah. Yeah.

30:33

I think for me, similar, it wasn't a lot

30:35

of technical challenges

30:37

that arise out of,

30:39

out of the equipment or anything. It was more

30:41

so that most of our cast was made up

30:43

of minors. And so, you

30:46

know, normally you'd have a 12 hour shooting

30:49

schedule, but one, we

30:51

were still under COVID restrictions. And then two,

30:54

we had mostly minors. And so our

30:56

days got cut down. So early on,

30:59

we were trying to just shoot

31:02

with one camera, but once

31:04

we made the decision that all the young kids

31:07

would get equal amounts of quote

31:10

unquote coverage, we just, we realized

31:12

that we wouldn't be able to make that day. We had

31:14

multiple scenes with five kids and so we ended up getting

31:16

a second camera,

31:20

second camera operator. And then at some point

31:22

we had three cameras and I

31:25

operated a camera just, just

31:28

to get through some of the dialogue, because again, with,

31:30

with a director who's, this

31:34

is her first movie, they

31:36

wanted the ability to have as

31:39

much options to take it in whatever direction, tone wise

31:41

and post until, you know, she gets very, you

31:47

know, comfortable with her voice, you

31:49

know, so yeah. So

31:53

that was my biggest challenge. We did hear about

31:55

the baby sea turtles that you had

31:57

to light around or change change.

32:00

an entire production

32:02

set for. That's

32:05

amazing. Okay. So as we sort of

32:07

like wind down here,

32:09

I'd love to hear

32:11

everyone's thoughts on being

32:14

a leader on set and leading an

32:16

entire team on set and

32:18

also collaborating across other

32:21

department heads, whether it's specifically

32:23

your relationship with the director. This

32:26

is a soft skill, and I

32:28

think a lot of the times, especially in the DP

32:30

space, it's there's

32:33

a lot of training around tools and

32:35

process. But here on the No Film

32:38

School podcast, we've been really trying to

32:40

push talking about the culture

32:42

on set and how to create

32:44

a safe space. So I'd love to hear

32:46

about how you function as a leader building

32:48

your team to create that space. I

32:52

guess for me, I started out as an

32:54

electrician. So I've

32:57

been able to see as I worked

33:00

up through the ranks, what it was like

33:02

to work with certain kinds of leaders. It's

33:06

been a work in progress honestly for me as

33:08

well because I didn't spend a lot of time

33:11

as an electrician or as a gaffer. So

33:13

I haven't gotten the experience of working

33:15

with really top-notch DPs.

33:18

But as far as just being a

33:20

leader in general, I'm learning more just

33:22

about picking your team. I think that's

33:24

to me after I've been through all

33:27

of it, I realized you

33:29

got to start with just picking your team in fighting

33:31

for that. Because if you can pick your

33:33

team that you truly trust

33:35

in, then you can

33:38

easily allow everyone to

33:40

do their job and you're not, quote

33:42

unquote, babysitting certain departments. It's like, oh,

33:44

I had to get a local camera

33:46

operator or local, and

33:50

I wasn't necessarily fond of their work. So

33:52

now I'm trying to save my film from

33:55

being the film that my operator is

33:57

trying to do or whatever. So

34:00

I think that the most important thing you can

34:02

do as a leader is

34:05

allow your team

34:07

the freedom to express themselves.

34:09

And the only way you can do that

34:11

comfortably is if you pick. Yeah,

34:15

no, for me, it's very similar. I totally agree.

34:17

It's the team. And

34:20

of course, with experience, you learn that in

34:22

a bad way. When

34:26

someone is like, oh, I'm an AC and

34:29

in a film festival and then, yeah, let's

34:31

do this movie because there's no budget. And

34:33

then you're like, that's never

34:35

again. Sounds personal. Yeah.

34:38

You made it. Exactly. Yeah.

34:40

So, yeah, no, now it's on my

34:43

contract. I really push for my gaffer

34:45

for having options and my first AC.

34:48

That's at least like the meaning that is like

34:50

the people that I, and I brought

34:52

them to Las Cruzes. So I work with

34:54

an amazing AC, as the fan right now

34:56

that is Belgian, but lives in LA. He

34:59

also has the AC of Moonlight. That was

35:01

his career, like explosion.

35:05

And then I worked with a Japanese

35:07

gaffer from a York Makoto Matsuo that

35:10

I showed also with him in front of Monarchs. And

35:14

it's interesting because I choose him when he

35:16

was a group, but I really love his

35:18

vibe. And I was like, I'm going to

35:20

teach you how to be a gaffer. Don't worry. That's

35:22

another thing that in Mexico, we grew up being

35:25

kind of a, now it's different,

35:27

but on my times it was like DP

35:30

slash gaffer. So you need to know everything

35:32

about gaffing because there is no students

35:35

or film school students that they want to

35:37

be gaffers. They all want to be

35:39

directors or DPs. So when I

35:41

moved to US, it was very interesting that my

35:44

first proper job with a

35:46

real gaffer, I was like,

35:48

I don't have to do anything now. And

35:51

you'll see it and relax because they're like, no, I'm going to

35:53

propose you this. And this is the equipment list.

35:56

And in Mexico, I have to go through that myself, which

35:59

is also... a good thing at the

36:01

end because you learn. So I'm not

36:03

too worried about that part. And I prioritize

36:06

the personal relationship. Because also

36:08

making a future film is

36:10

a big thing or

36:13

any long-term process job.

36:16

And I was like, I'm going to be

36:18

10 weeks in this process. I was first-time

36:20

director and I want to be with my

36:22

friends, with the people that I love. And then

36:24

the project immediately is going to be better. And

36:27

they're like, no, but we don't have money to

36:29

bring them here. I was like, what's the problem?

36:32

Airprint ticket? No, but also the

36:34

housing was like, put us in a

36:36

house together. We're friends. So also

36:39

being production-friendly. Not only this is

36:41

my conditions and that's it. It's

36:43

like, no, let's work it out.

36:46

Because it's going to be a benefit for the project. And

36:48

of course, everyone loves having a Japanese guy

36:51

on set. He's also

36:53

the coolest dressing. And

36:55

everyone is learning these little words. At the

36:57

end of the shoot, everyone knows. And

37:00

we're working also with minors. Especially

37:02

them. They were like, oh, Makoto and

37:05

this and that and Konichiwa. And

37:08

then on the other side, it's funny. I didn't plan that. But

37:10

I've been working New York with a lot of French ACs. And

37:13

then I was the fan that is Belgian. And

37:16

there is this funny, very interesting

37:18

connection. It's like the European

37:20

side, the Japanese, and the

37:22

Mexican. United Nations. Yes. The

37:26

Japanese and Mexicans were very similar. We

37:28

were very hardworking people. But we

37:31

always had joking. And Japanese, never.

37:34

So it's a funny

37:36

thing because I really like how Makoto

37:39

suffers sometimes because tries to be

37:41

the best at his culture. And

37:44

it's a benefit for everyone because it's really

37:46

thinking and rethinking. So now I

37:48

have another Japanese guy from LA.

37:51

Because I'm like, no. And it's not that

37:53

I plan that. But I'm comfortable with

37:56

that. So I fight for that. And

37:59

also I try to work with him. who always now be

38:01

very strong about the production designer

38:03

decision. No, because that's, I

38:06

think the biggest partner, like creative partner.

38:08

Of course, the first one is a

38:10

director, but for us, he's

38:12

like someone that is, if it's not that

38:14

strong, then your work is going to go.

38:17

No, and I remember one guy, who worked for

38:20

the first time, one of them,

38:22

he was always saying that he's like, even a

38:24

bad actor in a nice location works. But

38:26

the other way around, even the best

38:29

actor with a wide wall, maybe

38:31

not. That's such a great practical advice.

38:33

My DP on my film said that exact

38:35

same thing. He was like, I think

38:38

we need a really great production designer, and

38:40

we weren't going to. We're going to rely

38:42

on the great location. Bringing on our production

38:45

designer was the best decision we made, even

38:47

though there was financial cost, and we had

38:49

to save things on the other side,

38:51

and it was fantastic advice. Yeah.

38:53

I mean, these one, for example, it

38:56

was Stefania La Raine, that is a

38:58

Chilean amazing production designer, that she worked

39:00

with Pablo La Raine films, and

39:03

it was also her first film in US. She

39:07

was, of course, not going into these vintage

39:09

stores, and finding all these amazing

39:12

props. No, because that's another

39:14

thing that everything is new, and she was coming with

39:16

a vision that it was very interesting.

39:21

I recommend her for the movie, because

39:23

I think that's a great combo. I

39:26

really wanted to work with her. That was also

39:28

why I say, and I didn't

39:31

think that it was coming

39:33

through, but at the end, it worked out. I

39:36

feel like first ADs and

39:39

script supervisors also get a little bit

39:41

forgotten out of the mix of what

39:43

we do as cinematographers, because

39:46

a first AD is very

39:48

responsible for what your day is going to look

39:50

like. So you could end up

39:52

at a location where the schedule totally works

39:55

for the actors, and for

39:58

everyone else, but for you. It's just

40:00

a nightmare, right? And so, and the

40:02

same thing for Script Supervisor. Script Supervisor

40:05

could have their, could

40:07

be watching for certain things that

40:10

are not necessarily beneficial

40:13

to you, but are important to them

40:15

and therefore take priorities. So I feel

40:17

like those other two positions, as much

40:19

as a production designer, I'm learning more

40:22

now to like ask who's

40:24

the first AD? And who's

40:26

the Script Supervisor? Smaller, like, why does he want

40:28

to know who's the Script? I really

40:30

want to know, because I got to build a relationship with

40:32

them. Because it's going to affect your day. Oh, 100%. Shout

40:36

out to all the first ABs out there, who

40:39

are our heroes, the unsung heroes. Absolutely.

40:41

That's amazing. I'm the film guys as

40:43

well. Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. Often

40:46

the one person team, it

40:48

is interesting seeing like boiling it down or

40:50

just filling it down to these like core heads and

40:53

how they, it is really like, they all

40:55

need to be functioning in tandem. Yeah,

40:57

I mean, with with Petro, being

40:59

sort of a documentary environment

41:01

and more run and gun, we really had

41:04

a skeleton crew. So it was usually myself,

41:06

Tom, the Code DP and

41:08

sound. And then

41:11

we had a couple of really great

41:13

line producers, Alvaro Vasquez and Cesar Rodriguez

41:15

from a company called Vaya Films in

41:17

Colombia. And they have so

41:20

much local knowledge and they've shot all

41:22

over the country. They worked

41:24

on Embrace of the Serpent years ago.

41:27

And so they've been in environments

41:29

from the Amazon jungle to, and

41:32

the worst kind of rough

41:34

neighborhoods in Medellin and different big cities

41:36

in Colombia. And so whenever we were

41:38

in a place, I think like it's

41:41

peace of mind that you get when

41:43

you're working with people who are so familiar

41:45

with the territory that even

41:48

when you've been shooting for 12 or 14 hours or

41:51

whatever, and everyone's tired and stressed out

41:53

and arguing that these guys are, they

41:56

know exactly where you're gonna rest your head and

41:58

how we're gonna get out the... door the next

42:00

morning and I think this

42:02

common thread of what these guys

42:04

are talking about applies here too.

42:06

It's just pick the best people

42:08

and it allows you, everything else,

42:11

to flow. So yeah, I

42:14

was really happy with how our team came

42:16

together and also this international

42:20

element. Our sound mixer is from

42:22

Spain and Tom and I are American

42:25

and then we had the rest of

42:27

the team were all Colombian, but we

42:29

definitely had this shorthand that developed and

42:32

those cultural barriers in the end don't

42:34

really matter because you're really just in it

42:36

together in some of the most challenging

42:39

situations, but it all worked out.

42:41

I'm going to also say just something real quick.

42:44

I keep telling everyone of this experience that

42:46

I had on set one time that really

42:49

taught me, and again, it goes back

42:51

to leadership skills. It's like one day I

42:53

remember they have the sayings, like it all

42:55

starts from the top, it's top down, and

42:58

I literally watched the stress

43:00

go from the director

43:03

and it wasn't on Suncoast, but

43:05

it was on another phone. So I watched the

43:07

stress go from the director to me

43:11

and then because she

43:13

was frustrated, I started to

43:15

get a little bit frustrated. It's those times when

43:18

every second counts and it's like, what are we

43:20

waiting on? We're waiting on for the battery to

43:22

connect, right? And so all of a sudden, the

43:25

director's like, why are we waiting so long? And now

43:27

I'm all flustered and I'm just like, why

43:29

are we waiting so long? And I look down at

43:32

my ACs, I have a first AC and

43:34

a second AC who were right below the camera

43:36

and I'm looking at my first AC and I'm

43:38

like, why is it taking so long? So I

43:40

deliver that stress and that pressure

43:43

to her and then she

43:46

immediately starts adding that

43:49

pressure to the second AC and now they're all

43:51

like shaking, trying to get together the same. And

43:53

I was thinking to myself, why is she putting

43:55

that pressure? And I was like, because

43:57

I just gave it to her. we

44:00

each just funnel that energy right to the

44:02

other person. You can let it stop with

44:04

you. You can let it stop with you.

44:06

You can cut that energy off before it

44:08

starts to spread through the rest of the

44:10

crew. Yeah. Yeah. I think

44:12

it's important to put the

44:14

example. Also, I

44:17

had an experience in LA with my second

44:19

AC that is like, we're not

44:21

learning anymore from the DPs. They are all the

44:23

time on Instagram sitting at the dolly chatting.

44:27

When he worked with me, I was like,

44:29

you're very disciplined because it took me so

44:31

long to be in this place. Also,

44:34

in Mexico, we're never dreaming too. We're

44:37

more into the thing. I was like,

44:39

no phones or because I'm not going to be on

44:41

my phone. We have to

44:43

be focused. I think it's being, of

44:46

course, a generation change but

44:48

I think it's being more soft in that sense.

44:51

There is other people as well like

44:53

young that they want to have more

44:56

discipline or be also like

44:59

learning. I'm part, for

45:01

example, now of this mentorship program with Sundance.

45:03

I'm part of the Mexican Cinematore effort

45:06

that we have also mentorships. I

45:08

try to support that

45:11

and open doors for

45:15

the new generation, especially, of course, for me, the

45:17

Latino filmmakers here or the Mexican DPs. It's

45:20

also a big tradition of that for the last 20

45:22

years. It's

45:24

also because the government supports with money

45:27

and we don't have to worry about selling

45:29

the movie in Mexico. It's more about expressing

45:31

yourself. I think

45:33

that's important for us as DPs

45:35

also to put example, to try

45:37

to help other people or

45:40

open doors and share when they ask you for

45:42

an advice or the filter or the lens. Yes,

45:44

it's like I open door and like, but

45:47

that comes, of course, from security and

45:50

sharing. Sharing is caring. It's very

45:52

important. It feels

45:54

like there's this through line of like good

45:56

judgment has come from experience,

45:58

which sometimes comes from bad

46:00

judgment or inexperienced judgment. And

46:03

I don't know if you

46:05

all will have answers because this may

46:07

be the secret to filmmaking that nobody

46:09

will ever know. When

46:12

choosing your collaborative partners, whether it's working

46:14

with a director or hiring your team, we

46:19

don't always have the luxury of time.

46:21

We don't always have the luxury of

46:24

recommendation from somebody else. So it

46:26

does sound like a recommendation from

46:28

a trusted friend is one of the most

46:31

important things. Outside of

46:33

those, what do you look for? Like

46:35

what do you look for when hiring

46:37

somebody or deciding whether you're going

46:40

to jump headfirst into making a

46:42

film with somebody? I

46:47

mean, for me, it's somebody

46:49

who has grace under pressure.

46:52

Like he was talking about people who

46:54

aren't gonna get flustered

46:57

when things are going wrong is critical. And

47:01

I just like, I think keeping

47:04

the stress levels low is really

47:06

important. I mean, I obviously

47:08

you wanna work with the best people

47:10

in terms of their technical ability, but

47:13

personality is such a

47:15

huge part of it too. And

47:17

you're spending a lot of time with these people.

47:19

So it doesn't surprise me that you have

47:21

now your

47:24

preferred AC or your preferred Gaffer because

47:26

you really have to find your people

47:28

and you end up coming back and

47:30

working with those same people over and over again.

47:32

And certainly I think Tom and I all shoot

47:34

another project together at some point. Yeah,

47:37

I was gonna ask you, I'm like, how

47:39

do you find that before you

47:41

hire them for the first time? Is there a way

47:43

to do that? No,

47:45

I think you just have

47:48

to roll the dice the first time. And then if

47:50

it goes well, then you do it

47:52

again. Maybe lower stakes, maybe in a lower

47:54

stakes situation, if you can. Yeah, or something

47:56

smaller, I don't know. But yeah, I

47:58

mean, have you guys ever had... had a situation where a

48:01

crew member that you hired, you ended up having to

48:03

let them go or fire them or? I

48:07

mean, you don't even name names. But yeah. No,

48:09

but I think it's as we were saying, I

48:11

think for me, what is important is that it's

48:13

the vibe. No, it's something that is like you

48:15

immediately, because we're

48:17

sensitive people, we work in a creative field

48:19

and it's about that. We have to be

48:21

also a little bit of psychologist

48:24

because with the directors is the same. No,

48:27

we have to almost go in through

48:29

their minds to understand what they want to say

48:31

or how they want to say that. So for

48:34

me, it always feels that as like

48:36

the first approach. I

48:38

think also that's a very New York thing that

48:40

I learned when I moved there. People like you

48:42

or not, and that's it. I love

48:44

that because very honest. For

48:49

me, it's being more like that. That

48:51

happens again, like my quote to other

48:53

people. I'm doing other projects or bigger

48:55

projects and I see people that they are more like

48:58

learning. I was like, okay, come

49:01

with me for this other. No,

49:03

because there are projects for everything. Of course, I

49:05

work sometimes in big commercials where they put me

49:07

a gaffer that is 60-year-old and it's like the

49:09

vision is like this. I have

49:11

to deal with that. But also,

49:14

now I'm more and more relaxed. No,

49:17

I don't want to be stressed. I don't want to, it's

49:19

like, yeah, the world is falling apart. That's

49:21

fine. Also, we

49:24

have to be more relaxed. We think that this is

49:27

so important to my films. Of course, it is,

49:29

but it's more important life. That's

49:32

why I try also to, one

49:35

thing with my French is that I love

49:37

is like, they're always reading books on set

49:39

when they are not pulling focus. I

49:42

had experience with other ACs that they were always

49:44

trying to talk to me about the new cable,

49:46

the new this, the new that, and I'm like,

49:49

I don't care. Honestly, for me,

49:51

it's a tool to express

49:53

something. That's why I

49:55

also try to find projects that I connect.

49:58

When I read the script and I say, okay, I can

50:00

put something on myself there or

50:02

I resonate with me because my family or

50:04

my girlfriend

50:07

or whatever. But if it's

50:09

something that is not connecting inside,

50:11

I prefer to say no.

50:14

That's why it's very hard for me to do

50:16

a comedy or horror film because sometimes

50:18

I feel like there's still a lot

50:20

of stories in my Latin American

50:22

drama, like background

50:25

side that I would love to do because

50:27

that's why it's also very easy for me.

50:29

So I think it's important

50:31

just to be with open eyes when you

50:33

are going to hire someone. I'm

50:36

talking about my experience, yes, mainly in

50:38

a commercial that I was with an AC

50:40

that she

50:42

asked for another AC, second one or

50:45

third one. We're shooting. It was

50:47

a crazy project with like two cameras. One was 16,

50:49

the other one was digital. But

50:51

then she was getting slower and slower and

50:53

very stressed and shouting to

50:55

the other people. So I

50:57

was like, no, I don't need this here.

50:59

So I went with a producer because at some point

51:01

she was shouting to me. So

51:03

I went with a person. I was like, you know what?

51:05

I don't want this girl tomorrow. That's the first time I'm

51:08

doing it in my life and I felt so weird. But

51:10

I was like, no, I don't need this. I'm in this

51:12

part of my career where I can do that. Yeah. And

51:15

I serve other people. And then immediately they brought another AC

51:17

the next day. And that was

51:19

like a big difference. Power

51:22

and hiring, slowly firing

51:24

quickly. Yeah.

51:27

I will say that it's funny

51:29

because when you're hiring, everyone's on

51:32

their best behavior, especially if there's like

51:34

a budget, oh Lord. Like

51:36

I'm doing television now and it's like,

51:39

I think on my last production,

51:41

I counted something like 60 plus

51:44

70 just on the

51:46

grip electric and camera team. And

51:48

I was trying to explain to my nephew, I was like,

51:50

you know, at a certain point, you're

51:52

responsible for a lot of people in communication. So

52:00

and that's what television has helped me a lot

52:02

with in terms of being a leaders because there's

52:05

so many moving parts at some

52:07

point in television you realize you you

52:09

don't you can't control it like you

52:11

can have a vision, but it's going

52:13

to be up to so many different

52:15

people making those decisions you know you're

52:17

in your tent the camera operators are

52:19

talking to the director and you know

52:21

and it's moving like that and like

52:23

you get into a flow. So yeah

52:25

for me. I

52:29

don't like you said I don't think

52:31

there is a way to really unless

52:33

you take the approach of he said

52:35

doing something smaller you don't

52:37

always have that luxury of like a commercial

52:39

right before this big feature let me try

52:41

this person out. And so like

52:45

you're saying like in like you seem to have done

52:47

which is like find your people. And

52:50

like we were all saying you know if you

52:52

can manage to do that and find

52:54

your people that you like we're going that's the

52:56

biggest step because at that point. You

52:59

is less about communicating and it's more

53:01

about like you already know like your

53:03

temperament and how someone is

53:05

going to be a under pressure and

53:08

you won't learn things like for me

53:10

by my personal experience was going. I

53:14

think four months with

53:17

someone before I found

53:19

out what was really going on and

53:22

by that point they thought

53:24

that it was. There

53:26

couldn't be any other option but to continue

53:29

moving forward. And I

53:31

had to do like you were saying realize

53:33

that at this point I deserve this. In

53:36

my career I am a cinematographer I

53:39

like I can choose make

53:41

this choice and I had to do something

53:43

very uncomfortable and and switch some

53:46

stuff up you know and I did

53:48

and felt better immediately.

53:52

That's amazing. Well,

53:54

thank you all so much and thank you for opening

53:57

up and being vulnerable about this stuff that

53:59

we don't. talk that much about. I appreciate

54:02

it. Last thing, where can

54:04

people follow your work? Yeah.

54:06

Instagram. We have an Instagram account for

54:09

the film. It's petro.film. And

54:11

then my personal is just my name, Sean

54:13

Madison with two Ts. Yeah.

54:17

Yeah. For me, I have a website that

54:19

is alejandromajia.com.

54:22

And then my Instagram is

54:24

AlejandroMajiaDOP. And

54:27

my Instagram is BruceFCoal.

54:31

Yeah. Nice. Thank you guys. Thank you.

54:33

Thank you. Thank

54:43

you so much for listening to

54:46

our round table. I

54:48

loved hearing about how these

54:50

filmmakers have really

54:55

embraced building productive

54:57

teams, teams that prioritize

55:00

psychologically safe environments. And

55:03

after we stopped recording, the

55:05

best conversation started to happen, which

55:08

we discussed bringing everyone back, Bruce

55:10

Alejandro, specifically to continue this

55:13

conversation about how

55:15

they got their start and what barriers

55:17

they had being, you know,

55:19

a black man and a Mexican

55:22

man who is not of European

55:24

descent. So we

55:26

will happily have these folks

55:28

back on to learn more and continue

55:30

that conversation. And I hope

55:32

that you took away as much as I did

55:34

from this conversation. You can like,

55:37

rate, and subscribe to the No Film

55:39

School podcast across platforms. You can also

55:41

get more No Film School and Sundance

55:43

coverage on nofilmschool.com. You

55:45

could also follow us at

55:47

No Film School, across socials. Thanks for

55:49

listening.