0:09

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the No Film School Podcast

0:11

for the week of March 14th, 2024.

0:15

I am Charles Hain. I

0:17

am here with Gigi Hawkins. Hello.

0:19

And it always does feel weird to say 2024. Yeah,

0:23

I'm not with that. I'm not on

0:25

the board for that. Let's go back to 2023. I

0:29

was about to say 2020, I know. Thank you. Yeah. Also

0:33

here with Jason Hellerman. I want him to say hi. Good

0:35

morning. You know, if we're talking

0:38

2020, we are at the historic

0:40

four year anniversary award

0:42

of the whole world shutdown. So,

0:45

happy anniversary of the shutdown, guys. Does anybody

0:47

else go back and reread their emails from

0:49

that week? Oh my God.

0:51

I just did. Please

0:53

share, Charles. No, I mean, it's just

0:55

a thing, right? Where you like, like, you clearly just did

0:57

it. We hadn't talked about it. I do it, like, probably

1:00

every year. I didn't do it in 22, but I didn't

1:02

in 21, 23 in this year. Where, like, you do a

1:04

little Gmail search for, like, all my emails from, like, March

1:06

8th to March 20th, 2020. And just, like, watching the wave

1:08

of realization

1:11

of understanding of, you know, like, emailing with someone you

1:14

work with that you're like, I guess I'm not going

1:16

to see you for three weeks. And then it's like,

1:19

I didn't see that person for two years. I

1:21

don't know if I told this anecdote on the

1:23

podcast, so whatever, this bunch of episodes, maybe you

1:25

guys forget. But during, I was

1:27

pitching with my friend, Amy, a TV show.

1:29

And during the pitch, an assistant ran a

1:32

note in, which happens, you know, more than

1:34

you'd like, mostly because it means someone really

1:36

important is calling. And I remember the executive

1:38

looking up and being like, like,

1:41

that COVID thing, it's real. And we're shutting down

1:43

the office. And like, I'm so sorry we'll redo

1:45

this on Zoom. And then just covering their mouth

1:47

and leaving the room. And Amy and I just

1:50

sitting there and being like, Oh,

1:52

shit. Like, what do we do now?

1:54

And then we like left, went to the

1:56

parking lot. Everyone at this company, I won't say which

1:58

one was just get was getting. in cars and

2:00

leaving at the same time as us. And then we

2:02

were like, do we hug goodbye? And she's like, I'm

2:05

okay if you're okay with doing it. And I was like, yeah, I

2:07

guess we do it. Like, I don't know if you are

2:10

carrying this unseen disease, we hug goodbye, don't see

2:12

her for two years. Oh my God. I mean,

2:14

it's all on Zoom. We did do that Zoom

2:16

pitch. It didn't go great. You know what? I

2:18

will say, it doesn't matter. That was like quibby.

2:20

So it was totally fine. But I just, you

2:26

know, visceral memories. And I don't know. How

2:30

much is out of your control? Yeah, exactly.

2:33

Oh my God. There's so many bigger things

2:35

moving at all times. Also, that executive when

2:37

they were like, we're shutting down the office

2:39

had no idea that they were also shutting down the company.

2:42

Yeah, never. Yeah, we never got

2:44

an official pass because I think

2:46

the world officially passed on them.

2:48

So I was at the

2:50

fear scene school and I was about to

2:52

shoot on the soundstage. We like arted this thing

2:55

for an exercise. You're going to shoot a scene

2:57

from Ingrid Goes West and one of my favorite

2:59

movies and Julia Salomonoff, who was the

3:01

head of the directing program at the time and

3:03

is now the head of fish is directing

3:05

program, pulled me and another

3:08

classmate aside, the other one who was supposed to direct

3:10

and she was like, well, we're shutting

3:12

down and you get to

3:15

decide technically you can still shoot tomorrow.

3:17

But and I was like,

3:19

I don't want my actors who are

3:21

working for free and they're my friends

3:23

coming and then dying. That was what I

3:25

thought was going to happen. And so I

3:27

was like, I can't do it. I

3:29

can't do it. Never shot it. And

3:32

lots of stuff that never I never saw it

3:34

again because I moved to LA. Yeah,

3:36

that's what happens. I think it's an interesting

3:38

look. But now we're here four years later. We

3:40

did it. We did it. Kind of. We did

3:42

it. I was on that

3:44

same soundstage and I had found

3:47

a source for bleach wipes that wasn't sold

3:49

out and I brought a bunch there.

3:52

And so we had like a stack because

3:54

I was assuming in two weeks we'd be back and bleaching everything. And

3:56

then I remember being back on that soundstage when the

3:58

building reopened eight months later. and thinking of the time

4:01

like, oh, wow, all our police wipes have fried out without

4:03

realizing that it would still be two more years before. Yeah,

4:06

yeah. I had a similar again, and we

4:08

can get off that. But like I had

4:10

ordered I lived with two roommates at the

4:13

time. And I got really into like Costco

4:15

bulk stuff the months before by accident. And

4:17

I had so much toilet paper that like

4:19

the toilet paper lasts us through the entire lockdown. But

4:22

there were people who I was like DMing

4:24

being like, oh, I I could drop

4:26

a roll off at your ass if

4:28

you're out. I was the toilet paper

4:30

king of COVID for Incentri City for

4:32

a little bit of time. Anyway, that's

4:34

probably still paying off in the relationships

4:36

you built. Yeah, there's

4:39

a lot of toilet paper friendships I developed then. Yeah.

4:41

All right. So we've got a bunch of topics this

4:43

week. The first thing we're talking about is Nikon acquiring

4:45

red. Big news that we should talk

4:47

about. We're also then going to talk about the

4:49

first 10 pages of your screenplay. We're going to

4:52

talk about AI screenplay coverage. You

4:54

can guess what we're going to say, but you might as well

4:56

wait. And then we've got a really

4:58

good ask from school that I have a surprising, not

5:01

surprising to people who hear me all the time,

5:03

but probably surprising to the person who's asking answer

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6:54

Alright, first topic, this week Nikon bought RED. The example

6:57

that comes to mind is... look,

7:00

for some reason the internet RED gets a lot

7:02

of shit and I don't know why. Like I'm

7:04

not a RED fanboy, like the cameras are fine.

7:06

I wish they weren't named things like the weapon

7:08

bomb because when you fly them through airports that's

7:11

annoying. Like they're... Yeah,

7:13

the branding aesthetic was always strange to

7:15

me. But whatever, people got branding and

7:17

it is what it is. But like

7:19

you cannot deny RED sped up everyone

7:21

else's timeline on digital cinema. After

7:24

the RED one came out and we started seeing it on

7:26

big movies, everybody else had to get much faster and like

7:29

they shook up Sony. It took Sony a

7:31

long time to catch up. It made Airy

7:33

move faster. They have innovated in the

7:35

industry and made interesting products. And I do not

7:37

know always why the internet is so mean to

7:39

them. The phone was whatever. But

7:43

Nikon bought them and everybody's kind of surprised.

7:45

And one of the big reasons we're surprised

7:47

is that the big asset RED has left

7:49

right now is... I

7:52

mean they make nice cameras and we've all shot projects

7:54

in RED and they look great. But the big asset

7:56

they have left is they've got a good patent on

7:58

what's called compressed raw. podcast

8:00

I'm not going to get too

8:02

nerdy on compressed raw but basically

8:04

every other camera manufacturer out there the reason

8:06

why it's often an external recorder like when you

8:09

go ProRes raw you're going out to an Atomos,

8:11

Black tragic raw unless you're on a Black magic

8:13

camera you're going out to the Black magic video

8:15

monitor for Alexa for a long time you were

8:17

going out to like a Codex recorder for raw

8:20

and the reason why is internal raw inside the

8:22

camera read out a patent and you

8:24

had to pay read a license fee which eventually people

8:26

just broke down and paid now everybody took a swing

8:28

at this patent Apple took a swing at

8:30

this patent and you better believe Apple's got lawyers Sony

8:33

took a swing at this patent you better believe

8:35

Sony has lawyers GiniTech

8:38

now if you guys don't know GiniTech I kind

8:40

of love GiniTech they made up a whole bunch

8:42

of crazy YouTube videos about this GiniTech makes like

8:44

I don't I hesitate to say knockoffs well

8:47

they make like other branded products for

8:49

red so you know the red magazine

8:51

is like a thing called a red

8:53

bindi mag it's just a bunch

8:55

of SSD chips in a

8:57

thing and like from reddit $600 from and from GiniTech

9:01

it's like $180 and GiniTech took

9:03

a swing at the patent and

9:06

didn't pull it off and then Nikon

9:08

is the last people to try and win the patent

9:10

war with them lost

9:12

in court recently and then we're like ah fuck

9:14

it we'll just buy you which

9:16

is interesting that it's an icon because like

9:18

theoretically Sony and Apple

9:21

have more money although Apple probably

9:23

doesn't want to own a camera manufacturer but

9:26

like why didn't Sony buy and the

9:28

theory everyone is operating on right now

9:30

is Nikon is still really big in

9:32

the still space not really big in

9:34

the motion picture space right their

9:36

lens mounts not popular in motion pictures Canon

9:38

is still like their RF mount is on

9:40

the yeah red red uses RF mount

9:43

for their new lens mount for their new

9:45

cameras they do autofocus through RF they do

9:47

all that and strategically it

9:49

actually makes more sense for Nikon for anybody

9:51

else because this buys them into motion pictures

9:55

and they already have red branding they got that little

9:57

red dot on their camera so it was like

9:59

fate Yeah, it's hard to

10:01

beat the branding question.

10:04

Jordan wrote a really great article in no

10:06

film school about the acquisition and what's

10:08

these were like ramifications or what's happening and

10:11

look, all consolidation I think is hard in

10:13

the industry just because I do think it

10:15

takes out the some of the

10:17

innovation. But from Nikon's point of view,

10:21

creating a film camera was

10:23

just going to cost probably more

10:25

than it cost to acquire a company. And

10:27

this is

10:29

a no brainer thing if you want to stick around and

10:31

be one of the marquee brands and get into film, you

10:33

know, where are we gonna go despite the

10:35

you know, was it Rodrigo Preito on the Oscars

10:37

thing? You know, I want people to wait Von

10:40

Heutemann. Yeah, I don't know why.

10:42

There's a lot of names in there. But yeah, you know, encouraging

10:44

people to use 35 digital still the

10:46

most accessible. Certainly, you know, with our readers, I think,

10:49

I think most people have an opportunity to shoot on

10:51

even though you can take Charles's 35 35

10:54

millimeter class. Yeah, bookland 35

10:56

millimeter.com June 17 to 28.

10:58

Yeah, I

11:00

mean, I think there's look, obviously,

11:02

everyone saw that john Oliver thing

11:04

about why Boeing keeps crashing because

11:06

the McDonald Douglas Boeing merger. So

11:08

like mergers have a terrible rap,

11:11

for good reason, like people, thousands of

11:13

people have died because the McDonald Douglas Boeing

11:15

merger, thousands of people are not going to

11:17

die over this merger, right? And we

11:19

are in an interesting space in the

11:22

market where like at the same the

11:24

same day this was announced, borrow lenses

11:26

sold to lend lens rentals.com. Yep. And

11:29

that news got overshadowed by the red Nikon news.

11:31

But I also thought it was really interesting. Because

11:33

that one is actually somewhat more interesting in that

11:36

that is a true, there's not really only one

11:38

place you're going online for people

11:40

to ship you lenses. There used to be

11:42

like three competitors for like, oh, they're all

11:44

nice. Now, that is really consolidated

11:47

to I'm renting locally from a rental house. I'm

11:49

renting locally from share grid. Yep. Or if I'm

11:51

going to the internet, I'm going to lens rentals.com.

11:53

Now I like rental and rental.com and they're in

11:55

Memphis. So they're overhead is low and they've always

11:57

had a nice product and they're big nerds. and

12:00

they do really long posts on how they

12:02

evaluate lenses. I liked

12:04

that they're very upfront nerds about glass. So

12:08

it is interesting. I think the

12:10

other interesting, I mean, there's two big things

12:12

here. One, why is Jim Jannard willing to

12:14

sell? I think we forget that this

12:17

was his second business. He started Oakley in

12:20

the 70s and then sold Oakley to Luxottica

12:22

and then Red was his retirement business. Yeah.

12:27

Yeah. 19 years is enough time to be like, you

12:29

know, I've done this, let's sell it. And

12:31

then the other thing is like, yeah, I think it's

12:33

really a smart strategy for Nikon to get back a

12:35

footprint in the motion picture business. I

12:37

think in a couple of years, it'll just be

12:40

Nikon cameras. These will be the Nikon motion picture

12:42

cameras. I think we will inevitably see the Nikon

12:44

lens mount adapted by the next generation of RED

12:46

cameras because that's the big benefit to them. Then

12:49

they'll start selling a lot more glass if

12:52

natively you get the best autofocus out

12:54

of your Nikon RED cinema. So

12:57

it'll be interesting to see what evolves. I don't think

12:59

they'll do another phone. I think they learned that lesson.

13:02

Yeah. So

13:04

look, it's a natural evolution of camera

13:06

makers and people have things to sell,

13:08

right? How do we sell our lenses? How do we do these

13:11

things? And I think, you know, I'm

13:13

excited for where it can go. And honestly,

13:15

it does. At least it's like a marquee brand. It's

13:17

not like they were bought by somewhere that I think is

13:19

like going out of business. You know, to

13:21

me, it's like, all right, like, we'll see what they can

13:23

push this brand and the doing. I

13:26

like that. Now I can go to my

13:28

friends that are DPs and be like, what

13:30

do you think about Nikon acquiring RED? And

13:33

they'll be like, you know that? Yeah, I know. I

13:36

mean, that was always, I have to say that

13:38

was always one of the arguments I made behind this

13:40

podcast is like, at your typical prep

13:43

meeting, there's usually chit chat, like you're meeting in a

13:45

production company, you're meeting at a post house, you're meeting

13:47

on a job and there's like chit chat at the

13:49

beginning. Yeah. Part of the goal of this

13:51

podcast is like making you prepared for the chit chat. I

13:53

love it. I agree.

13:56

Yeah. I

13:58

think it's a frankly, it's going to be I think it's a

14:00

better fit than Sony or Apple and I'm glad it wasn't Sony

14:02

or Apple. I'm glad it was Nikon because they

14:04

have more to gain from it. It'll be

14:07

interesting to have Nikon glass as a

14:09

common mount in motion pictures. I think

14:11

Canon already has some interesting bodies that

14:13

are worth shooting with. Sony obviously does.

14:15

Yeah. And I think Apple would have

14:17

let it squander. Like I think

14:19

Apple wanted the ProRes RAW patents for

14:21

other reasons. Yeah. I worry always

14:24

with Sony or Apple doing this because they're also in the

14:26

movie buying and making game that

14:28

it suddenly becomes, oh, you're shooting a Sony

14:30

movie. So you're obviously shooting on our Sony

14:32

cameras, right? Like, well, they, they already do

14:35

that. Exactly. Right. Like

14:37

if you limit the limit of choice is a danger

14:39

in itself. Yeah. That's true. Although,

14:42

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15:36

Alright. Up next, the first 10

15:38

pages of your screenplay. That's new. Yeah,

15:42

it's funny. Last week we covered this human coverage

15:44

thing. We'll get to the ad coverage later. A

15:46

thing called The Gauntlet and it was like this

15:49

big, buzzy thing that came out that was very

15:51

expensive. I don't know if we're going to test

15:53

it because it was so prohibitively expensive. But the

15:55

idea was like, oh, this personal reader

15:57

script. And if they get through the first 10 pages.

16:00

pages, then they'll pass it up the ladder and the

16:02

internet was on fire with like, what

16:04

do you mean I'm paying $380 to

16:06

hope that seven people read past the

16:08

first 10 pages of my script? And

16:11

that's an entirely different conversation of, yes, that's

16:14

a ripoff. But

16:17

the first 10 pages thing I think is something was isolated

16:19

from there. And look, I thought what I think was saying

16:21

like 20 pages, whatever,

16:23

but those of us who were

16:25

assistants and then became executives,

16:28

I called some of my friends and they're like, Oh, we read

16:30

10 pages. And if it's 10 pages,

16:32

it gets us into the story, then we'll

16:34

give it another 10, you know, and obviously

16:37

there's people who skip around or do things, but the first

16:39

10 pages of your script are incredibly

16:41

important. And it's almost impossible to

16:43

understate how important not just from an intention

16:46

span point of view, but just from actors,

16:49

directors, cinematographers, agents, managers, lawyers, they're

16:51

all giving this thing 10 pages

16:53

to figure out, okay, who's

16:55

in this movie? What

16:58

audience are we trying to hit? What's

17:00

the world? Like what's the risk of marketability? Is it

17:02

a four quadrant movies, one quadrant movies, any is it

17:04

a studio, is it whatever? And then also like, what's

17:06

the genre? And all of

17:08

those are distilled pretty much in your first 10 pages.

17:11

And I do think, you know, in this era of

17:13

like, people seeing runtimes getting longer and

17:16

different stuff, they're still forgetting that no matter

17:18

what, whether you're killers of the flower moon

17:20

or past lives, you know, the two spectrums

17:22

of film length or driveway dolls,

17:24

which is like 79 minutes, no matter

17:26

what in those first 10 pages, you know, who, what

17:29

is this movie and who is it for? And that

17:31

winds up being the biggest question asked in Hollywood today.

17:34

I think being in this phase

17:36

of post production on my feature and

17:38

the first 10 pages or the first

17:40

10 minutes are where I'm having the

17:42

biggest pain points. I'm feeling

17:45

this early the pain

17:47

of not having had the first

17:49

10 pages like perfected before. And

17:52

I've made this mistake in the past. I've

17:54

made the mistake in the past of shooting

17:56

people go into a location and it's like

17:58

shoe leather when it really. the first

18:00

10 pages are this opportunity to

18:02

set up the expectation for

18:05

what kind of movie it's going to be.

18:07

Like, are you watching a movie about, like,

18:09

a sorority slaughterhouse? Like, we have

18:11

to see a kill in the first

18:13

10 pages. I, uh, probably

18:15

in the first page or so.

18:17

Like, you're teaching the audience how they're going

18:20

to be watching the movie. And,

18:22

and it's very, it's such a complex

18:24

thing because you have to get into

18:26

the story, but you also have to

18:28

be providing context. And that is,

18:31

that is tough. To be able to pull it all

18:33

off, that is very tough. What's

18:35

interesting to me about this, this strikes a bunch of thoughts

18:38

on me. The first is that, like, Sundance

18:40

Lab is always, the first round of Sundance Lab

18:42

for the last 25 years has been five pages.

18:44

Yeah. So, like, I don't think the first 10

18:46

pages is that big a flag for me because

18:49

what, what it's really saying, I mean, my wife is

18:51

driven nuts by this because, like, I'll turn a

18:53

movie off 10 or 15 minutes in all

18:56

the time. Yeah. She's like, but you have

18:58

to give them time. And I'm like, no,

19:00

no, no, I gave them 10 minutes. Yep.

19:02

And like, they told me in the 10

19:04

minutes, everything that I need to know about

19:07

what they're setting up, I'm talking about like

19:09

within industrial production, are there movies like Kianascati

19:11

where the first 10 minutes doesn't set up

19:13

a mid transition? Sure. And I love

19:15

Kianascati and I got very high and I watched it in

19:17

college and it blew my mind. But like, I'm

19:20

talking about like, I use this

19:22

term a lot and it's not a negative term.

19:24

It's positive. Industrial production. We were talking about

19:26

movies that are made within the industry that are designed to

19:28

reach a mass audience that tell a story that have characters

19:30

that have a world that have a pitch, that have a

19:32

log line. And like, if I'm watching a movie

19:34

that's intending to be that and I watch the first 10 minutes and

19:36

I'm like, I fucking hate all of these people

19:39

and you haven't given me any tension, mystery or suspense,

19:41

and you haven't made me like, and I'm not with

19:43

any of them. Like, why would I

19:45

give you another 10 minutes when it was your job to

19:47

put that in the first 10 minutes somehow? Yeah.

19:50

So like, I totally am fine

19:52

with like the opening 10 pages because it is a

19:54

good discipline to get into. Like as

19:56

when I was reading 25 years ago, creative

19:58

artists, I always read the the whole thing. But

20:01

I tell you what, I knew everything

20:03

I was going to write about 10 or 15 pages in. Then

20:06

I was reading, trying to

20:08

decide if anything, and

20:10

sometimes about 10 or 15 pages in, I

20:12

would read the last 10 pages and be like, am I right

20:14

about the last 10 pages? I'd be like, yeah, I am. I'm

20:17

going to read the middle really quick so I can write this

20:19

coverage because you didn't do anything. You

20:22

didn't surprise me, you didn't twist anything. It was exactly what

20:24

the first 10 pages set up, and the first 10 pages

20:26

weren't interesting. So the first 10 pages are fine.

20:29

The flag for me is the $300, and

20:32

the reason why the flag for me is $300 is 10 years ago, on

20:36

No Film School, before I ever wrote for No Film School, when

20:38

I lived in Los Angeles, I read an

20:40

article on No Film School, before I wrote for

20:42

No Film School about Thunder Thunder, which

20:45

is a straight up scam. Yes. Straight up

20:47

scam. It was $300 entry fee. You

20:50

had to have a fundraising trailer, already shot for your production,

20:52

you had to have a script. I

20:54

submitted and I won, me and someone else

20:56

won. We won Thunder Thunder. I had half

20:58

of the financing for my film, and

21:01

it was great. I have no idea how many

21:03

people submitted, but I know many people did because

21:05

I personally know a few people who did who

21:07

had screenwriting things, and it was great. It was

21:10

a fun year meeting with the complete scammers who

21:12

ran Thunder Thunder. None of the,

21:14

there were a bunch of industry mentors on the

21:16

site. I primarily took it seriously because Cashion always

21:18

was on the site. I was like, well, I

21:20

know Cashion's work. If Cashion's on this site, he

21:22

must trust these people. It's worth $300

21:24

roll of dice. I already have a fundraising

21:27

trailer, why not? I had a bunch of meetings at Thunder Studios,

21:29

and I was like, oh, you guys are shady as hell. Then

21:32

eventually, one person emailed me and was like, oh yeah, we're

21:34

never going to make these movies. This was a racket I'm

21:36

quitting. One person from Thunder,

21:38

very nice person, total respect for them and then

21:40

he quit. As far

21:43

as I can tell, it was literally just a racket to

21:45

get a bunch of $300. Because

21:47

if you get a thousand people to apply, that's 300,000. He

21:50

probably didn't get a thousand, but he might have gotten 500,

21:53

and that's $150,000, and

21:55

that's something. Wow. I

21:57

knew from the first meeting, I was suspicious because I

21:59

met the CEO. in the first meeting and he

22:02

was not interested in me at all in a

22:04

way where I was like, you were about to finance,

22:06

you are about to put money in me, you should

22:08

be evaluating. Even if you don't want to be

22:10

friends with me, you should be trying to get a

22:13

read on whether or not your investment in me is

22:15

going to go well and you

22:17

are not and that is weird. So

22:20

the thing for me is just because it's the same

22:22

$300 price point that made me think

22:24

of Thunder, there's been a lot of inflation.

22:28

If I had heard you say 380 instead of three,

22:30

I wouldn't have thought of Thunder, but also

22:32

there's been a lot of inflation by then. So let's say

22:34

this is like $200 in 2012 dollars. It's

22:39

got a very impressive list

22:41

of industry mentors, right?

22:43

Like Don Bollinger is great, Shane Black

22:45

is great, Solomon is great. There's a

22:47

whole lot of like very... Yeah,

22:50

I mean, there's so many incredible voices,

22:52

diverse voices, right? But

22:55

I would like to see more of, yeah,

22:57

Michelle Amour, Hila Cooper, like I would

22:59

like to know more about how they're

23:01

involved. Because yes, finding... I

23:05

think we can all agree

23:07

that like the

23:10

system for getting good scripts into the

23:12

hands of people who can do something

23:14

with them needs continual evolution. Yeah, and

23:16

it hasn't. It really truly has not

23:18

in a long time. Yeah,

23:20

I mean, the blacklist is the last big revolution.

23:22

Yeah, 10 years ago, yeah. Yeah,

23:24

exactly. Yeah. Or I mean, almost more than 10

23:26

years ago now? Yeah. Oh, you are right. More,

23:28

probably 12, close to 15. Yeah. So

23:32

I think that this is like

23:34

the 10 pages thing. I mean,

23:38

in reality, yes, your coverage reader

23:40

who's paid to read your script in full will read

23:43

more than your 10 pages. If your 10 pages are

23:45

not good, no executive is going to read past them.

23:47

Yeah, anyway, three was the one. It's funny, because back

23:49

in the day, three were like the first three pages

23:51

I could always tell. If it's a comedy, I haven't

23:53

laughed, then that's gonna be a problem through the whole

23:56

thing. If the drama and I don't feel

23:58

something, then It's

24:00

like if it's an actual movie and you're opening set

24:02

piece sucks, they probably all suck because you want your

24:04

opening one to be one of the best, if not

24:06

the best. But like, it's like the

24:08

gauntlet, I feel like conflicting without trying

24:11

it. I do think, look,

24:13

their heart's in the right place. They're like, what's the pipeline way we

24:15

can get it? Let's put a price

24:17

high enough where we can actually pay these readers

24:19

real money. If you have seven

24:21

people reading, so it's like a divergent

24:23

taste. You're set, let's say

24:25

you submit a horror script, it's not going to

24:27

the person who wants to read pretty, pretty princess

24:29

scripts. You can define it. There's lots of good

24:31

things about it. Without us paying the 380,

24:34

hard to knock it. But I do

24:36

think the system shock of people who

24:39

don't interact in Hollywood or don't have

24:41

connections here to learn that 10 pages

24:43

is a litmus test or whatever.

24:45

I think, like they said, 20 is like, yeah,

24:48

20 is generous. People have things to do. And if

24:50

it sucks for 20, even if your last

24:52

80 are amazing, you're

24:54

screwed. I don't have to tell you. I

24:57

mean, the biggest thing for me, even more than the field, like I

24:59

agree on the laugh, I agree on the feeling. The biggest thing for

25:02

me is in seven to 10 pages,

25:04

I should know who the characters I'm going on the

25:06

journey with are. And if you

25:08

have not done the work to find a way to tell

25:10

me who they are and why I give a shit about

25:12

them, like regardless of who they are,

25:14

like, what are you showing me that makes me like,

25:17

ah, yeah, I'm on this journey with this person. I'm

25:19

like, that's Max Rakatanksky and

25:22

I am in. That

25:25

is the job of the

25:27

first 10 pages. And

25:29

if, you know, go watch all of your

25:31

favorite movies and break down

25:34

the first 10 minutes of the movie and you

25:36

will have been given the things that will bring

25:38

you along for the rest of it. Yeah.

25:41

I mean, my favorite example for this is

25:43

the all three Godfathers. They all start on

25:45

parties. Right. So the first one is a

25:47

wedding and you meet everybody at the wedding and kind of get

25:49

the stakes. What's going on? What's

25:51

happening? Is a first communion,

25:53

I believe. Right. Godfather Part

25:56

Two. It's like you meet everyone, you get the stakes.

25:58

Oh, now there's a senator. Now Michael's in charge of family. Las

26:00

Vegas. The third one is Michael getting

26:02

a medal from the Pope and you're

26:04

like, oh, okay, this is about religion. This

26:06

is about these people. Here's the dynamics. And

26:08

like, that's, those are

26:10

three ways like Francis for cobra, like mirrors

26:12

all three movies, but it's also really smart

26:15

ways to get us completely into up to

26:17

date what's going on in this world and

26:19

why do we care about these people at

26:22

this point in our lives. And it's just like, these are easy

26:24

ways to do it, you know, and those movies

26:26

to kind of define the genre and the way they're

26:28

supposed to be. Well, and

26:30

like going back to the godfather in the

26:32

opening 10 minutes, we learn about Don Corleone.

26:35

We learned that he has a very specific

26:37

code of honor. When, when

26:39

the baby asked, well, no, it's not

26:41

just that it's, this is not justice. The baker says,

26:44

I want you to kill these men. And Don Corleone

26:46

says, but your daughter's not dead. Like

26:48

you immediately know something and are intrigued

26:50

by him as a character, because

26:53

he is not out for revenge.

26:55

He has a code of justice. He's government

26:58

and exile or whatever he is. And you

27:00

are curious because of that. Yeah,

27:02

that's what you have to do in the first 10 minutes. You have

27:04

to give me that specific thing that makes me like, who's this? Yeah.

27:07

And that's what that opening scene

27:09

does so well in the godfather.

27:12

And you're not even, I mean, it's like

27:14

four or five pages of other dude

27:16

talking before he even talks. He's just

27:18

playing with the cat. I believe in

27:20

America. Two scenes gives this amazing speech.

27:23

Yeah. And then we see him one more time in the whole movie. You

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27:56

it's interesting. And I think like, well, maybe like

27:58

a natural segue into our next topic. But

28:00

it is what you're talking about is a

28:02

human reaction to what's going on in the

28:04

first 10 pages You know like a visceral

28:06

thing of like I care a lot about

28:09

the people in this movie or you know Or

28:11

TV show, you know, depending on what you're reading

28:14

I care so much as I want to keep

28:16

going and that's always the battle that any writer

28:18

writing anything or any editor putting together a movie

28:20

or director whatever like That's the

28:23

war you wage in the first 10 minutes, you know,

28:25

so like her first 10 pages So,

28:27

you know we transition naturally How

28:30

do you fight that war against the computer

28:32

when AI is covering your script, you know,

28:34

how do you how do you know?

28:36

What what do you do? Okay, so

28:38

this yeah, this is a great transition

28:40

to the most depressing thing ever which is Jason wrote

28:42

a great article this week I mean an

28:44

article or Jeremy ad or like a call

28:46

to burn the machines I don't really know

28:49

but it was like, you

28:51

know, apparently I'd missed this I

28:53

mean, thank God for I guess I'm also warm

28:55

to the government because it's like seven real human

28:57

beings with you in heart to pay Taxes reading

28:59

your script because apparently there's a thing where it's

29:01

like an AI can read your script and evaluate

29:03

for you Which like I'm teaching a

29:05

class on AR I art this fall. I'm open day.

29:07

I've used it a little bit in post The

29:10

idea of AI evaluating your script is fucking

29:12

horseshit and it is like such

29:14

a racket to sell that to

29:16

people Oh my god, you know, we

29:19

the range of cash, right? We

29:21

tested a website that does it for $10.

29:23

There's I found one that charges over a

29:25

hundred dollars again Not for human beings, you

29:27

know, we can get it into the cash

29:29

markup later because I found that to be

29:31

incredibly fascinating What it actually cost these people

29:34

right but since you're not paying a salary

29:36

per script Well, you know what? I'll just say it right now.

29:38

It's around 30 cents to 50

29:40

cents a script not a

29:42

page Entire scripts if you're charging

29:44

10 bucks your markups pretty high if

29:46

you're charging $100 your markups ten

29:49

times that Again without any over

29:51

it you're not paying for out there. You're not paying

29:53

for whatever. You're just doing it, you know, whatever Hey,

29:56

look, I think the essential argument comes back

29:59

to taste right? Like when

30:01

I hear about Charles' favorite movies, when I hear

30:03

about Gigi's favorite movies, we have these conversations, I

30:05

get a sense of their taste. Where do we

30:07

align? Where do we maybe differ? You know, and

30:10

that's what makes, what's what

30:12

makes this podcast tick, or any podcast

30:14

tick, right? But it's also like what makes a

30:16

friendship tick. I know what I could recommend to

30:18

Gigi that I think she'd like, but I also

30:20

know, you know, a movie I could tell her

30:22

that she'd have a horrible afternoon probably watching Irreversible,

30:24

you know? Not up or

30:26

out of the way. But with Charles, you know,

30:28

I know we could talk Coliana Scatsy, you know,

30:31

back and forth for a long time. You know,

30:33

I think if I'm going to go see Dark

30:35

Side of the Oz, you know, Charles would be

30:37

the number one invite. But I'm probably not going

30:39

to send him Transformers Rise of the

30:42

Beast, you know? So it is like, you're figuring out

30:44

what those tastes are, and you're figuring out like, oh,

30:46

if I was going to work with you to these

30:48

two people on different things, it would probably align closely

30:50

to what our tastes align to. And that, what AI

30:52

is doing is just saying like, hey,

30:54

I'm comparing your script to

30:56

the zeros and ones for whoever

30:59

programmed my tastes. And, you

31:01

know, I'm using tastes very loosely here, because

31:03

it's not tastes, right? Whoever programmed what algorithmically

31:05

I've decided is good, you

31:07

know, I'm going to evaluate based on that set, right? There

31:10

are two ways that AI can do this, and we cover

31:12

it in detail in the article. The one

31:14

way is having a database of screenplays, you know, like

31:17

for the past, I don't know, onset of the internet

31:19

since 1996, whenever the internet

31:21

came around and you could download the PDF of

31:23

your favorite screenplay. I remember downloading

31:25

JAWS and it took a day in 2001 and

31:29

now it's like a continuous split. But,

31:31

you know, where those

31:34

scripts, they're either

31:36

sucked into a database in this, you

31:38

know, learning language model, LLM, and

31:40

you're evaluated based on what it decides are the

31:43

commonalities in that, that's one way to do it.

31:45

A lot of companies deny doing it that way,

31:47

even though we kind of have proof they do

31:49

it that way. The reason they denied is they

31:52

don't want to say they're using copy written material

31:54

to make money. The other way,

31:56

the way that money claim to say they do it

31:58

is And. I

32:01

feel like you know we aren't We have articles on tropes

32:03

and like how to write a screenplay of these things to

32:05

be in their The Blake's Diabetes at etc. We have a

32:07

be cheap. I love the beach seat. I think everyone should

32:09

be using them. Whether you're reading on a

32:11

weird indie or our stadium with yes I think

32:13

that really helpful but. Let's. Say they've.

32:16

Schooled, Again, heavy quotation marks their

32:18

ai language while on that what they're they're

32:20

doing is using a I to stay and

32:22

what does beats could be to then regurgitate.

32:25

To. You but your stories theoretically is

32:27

about and then also. Have. A

32:29

way where you would need notes and again like these

32:31

are. Say. Things like your time

32:34

to an amorphous machine who isn't. Really?

32:36

Deciding if it. Understands Michael

32:38

Corleone his motivations to suit the Police

32:40

chief you know, unpaid spaced He: it's

32:43

just saying hey this is an hundred

32:45

and eighty paid script and they out

32:47

seventy minutes and T V and whatever

32:49

page the says this is happening I've

32:51

identified as beat as this. What

32:54

if it was earlier? You know it's

32:56

is like not a not a note,

32:58

it's just a suggestion based on algorithm

33:01

and unfortunately people are paying money for

33:03

this am. Mostly I think for it

33:05

was. A Ten dollar one.

33:07

I know lot of people using says it's cheap

33:09

Ten dollars as. And for say

33:11

that the price of like a Venti

33:13

Starbucks strength with one ad on in

33:16

a cell like relatively inexpensive and also.

33:18

You. Know we can't like pay for play. How do I

33:20

get into the and I don't live your i live

33:22

in a gypsy like you know I live in wherever.

33:25

You know Nepal had a why get access to

33:27

Hollywood and I don't have to pay whatever the

33:29

the blacklist as I can. Hundred bucks in front

33:32

of a waste of inserted a host your script

33:34

side one thirties? you know what if I got

33:36

thirteen of I was sun sets of well thirteen

33:38

times the computer to tell you anything you want.

33:40

you really just need one human to read it.

33:43

I don't think a good to peer valuations in

33:45

the giveaway em. Music. So.

33:47

Many emotions about a ice a paradise. The

33:49

it's hard to. Talk about it in

33:51

assessing man. It's also we keep

33:54

in teaching in this fantasy that a I

33:56

can think. He. I to not fucking

33:58

sick. It. Is Not. Humphrey handing

34:00

characters and their motivations and

34:03

their goals. Hideous. an elaborate.

34:05

Could. Be that can do. Highly

34:07

sophisticated. Auto correct in predict what word comes

34:09

next. Yes, so it analyzing the words and

34:12

looking for it and the what it's doing

34:14

is like you know a major a common

34:16

thing between sequence seven integrate is a reversal

34:19

right? There's a big setback for shipping reversal

34:21

him and thought you know the character has

34:23

to deal with it right? It is analyzing

34:25

reversals from other movies. It's looking for common

34:28

words in those reversals and then it. Seeing

34:30

if you have scenes with those similar common

34:32

words it doesn't understand states it doesn't understand

34:34

why something counts as a reversal. It is

34:37

interesting. To see if you have the same word

34:39

so if you're reversal. Is five

34:41

pages earlier, but there's a really good reason.

34:43

the enemy human reading it would understand. Yeah,

34:45

they're not going to get that, but even

34:47

if you're reversal is really interesting. Relic babies

34:49

completely without dialogue because we can to see

34:51

what's what's happening with the action where no

34:53

one has to say oh no, the situation

34:55

is reversed. But like we immediately get it

34:58

because you britain it's a well when you beat it

35:00

Visual for cinema. If anyone understands it,

35:02

the Ai will be like, but none of

35:04

the characters express their frustration at the reversal

35:06

and are not yes about traffic. So like,

35:08

what the fuck. Like. Actually punishing

35:10

because here's the the goal of figuring

35:13

out all this form stuff. Is.

35:15

To play with it is to deal with.

35:17

It is to understand that audiences know this

35:19

and have fun with it, right? That? that's

35:21

why you know that Shane Black Scraped I

35:23

mean to my cup was very talented regulator.

35:25

But one of the things he does really

35:27

well as he plays with structure and he

35:29

knows that audiences know structure. And

35:31

he will tease things about structure because he

35:34

knows, but only to a subconscious level. We

35:36

sorta know what's coming next. And. He'll

35:38

dance with it and it's like one of

35:40

the joys of his scripts. So. To.

35:42

Rob writers of Be Bloody To

35:44

Do That. And to say

35:46

like you know to it becomes a keyword guessing game.

35:49

And it's a it's yeah. Ai

35:51

Ai has some things that can

35:53

do. I. Have value waiting.

35:56

Creative screenwriting is not one. Yeah.

35:58

And can write with Bdr. In our organ,

36:00

organize something around him. it isn't there were

36:02

they don't like. Seventy four percent of the

36:04

time, it's long enough yes, that that's near.

36:07

The it's You know it's such it's in southern. I'm

36:09

just wondering. You know, Edu or a

36:11

writer here like. Would would

36:13

you use? It: How would you use a savvy?

36:15

use it? Yeah. At

36:18

such it's it's such an it is

36:20

actually bringing me back to this. This

36:23

feeling I had when I was

36:25

learning how to write and learning

36:27

structure because these fundamentals are so

36:29

important for understanding. How story

36:32

works. So. You can have that

36:34

creek debt so you can subvert it

36:36

and play with it. And also there

36:38

is this moment where. I let

36:40

myself go, let structure bow, and sort

36:42

of let it become the subconscious thing

36:44

with and me I would. I still

36:46

love each. He says celebrating down scripts

36:49

in both directions like both. In

36:51

fact for writing and also some

36:53

learn how a story was structured.

36:55

And how it works That pretty was

36:57

that intuition that is a fierce human.

36:59

The A I saw lead the only

37:02

thing that I as a writer can

37:04

bring to the table. That. Makes

37:06

my work unique and my boys such when

37:08

it when I could almost forget the structure

37:10

out of at a certain point like that's

37:12

where my best work came from in it

37:14

only came in the last. Two. Years

37:17

it took. You. Know years and

37:19

years of work and failing to

37:21

get to that point. So what?

37:23

My fear is. Is if I

37:25

looked if I came up with the structure

37:28

of knowing these that there is systems looking

37:30

for how to optimize and sort of like

37:32

essentially as Ceo. Your scripts.

37:35

I. Would have fallen into this

37:37

structure trap that would have. Suppressed.

37:40

My voice as an emerging creator

37:42

and. And it's it's.

37:44

really, it's really depressing. Air and

37:47

I I I know some folks

37:49

who are exploring in this space.

37:52

The. The the one thing

37:54

I can. See.

37:56

Being a positive. From. this

37:58

and this would be implements a

38:01

system with a

38:03

lot of barriers. But

38:08

people have shared scripts with me where I'm like, wow,

38:10

you have not done that work. You have not read

38:13

McKee. I bet

38:15

I know you all have read these scripts or you're

38:17

like, wow, you haven't even read a script before.

38:19

Like you, there's, so if the A could just

38:21

weed out that

38:25

sort of structure. And then I have to

38:27

also give the biggest caveat to this because

38:30

like the script of Moonlight

38:32

was a mess. If

38:34

you look at it from the perspective of

38:36

how the industry reads scripts, I

38:38

don't remember who it is, but somebody very

38:41

famously passed on Moonlight and in

38:43

my friend group, or maybe it was one of you two.

38:45

It all blends together. Everything

38:48

good has been passed on by somebody. Exactly.

38:50

The true thing about Moonlight is the characters

38:52

are compelling. Yeah. Like

38:54

there might not be, although that ending has

38:56

some very traditional screenplay moments in it in

38:59

terms of reversals, in terms of stakes, but

39:01

like the truest fact, like I

39:04

don't think AI is going to help weed out the people

39:06

who haven't done their homework. Cause I remember when I was

39:08

reading Creative Artists again, 25 years ago, and

39:11

there would be scripts and I was like, how did this make

39:13

it to Creative Artists? Like there's nothing here.

39:15

This isn't a thing. Like this is, nobody makes any

39:17

sense. And I don't understand what's going on. Why

39:20

are they here? I don't get it. But like somehow they made

39:22

it like, you know, we all

39:24

want to, you

39:26

know, we all want to do things slightly beyond

39:29

our skillset. And I don't know that AI, I

39:31

mean, maybe AI could help. Maybe AI

39:33

could help at a very fundamental like, do

39:36

your, are your characters compelling

39:38

check? Or like are

39:41

like spell, elevated spell check.

39:43

Like is this formatted correctly?

39:45

That I would fucking love.

39:50

That would be amazing. Yeah. Is

39:52

that where I get in my head? And I pay money for

39:54

people to, I have a service

39:56

where I pay like a hundred bucks to

39:58

have somebody go through. and make sure

40:01

that one, just basic selling stuff, but

40:03

also like, is this reading in the

40:05

most streamlined way? Like,

40:07

is this the smoothest read? And a

40:09

lot of it is just like taking

40:11

out things that get in the

40:13

way of the read, like, oh, technically you're

40:15

introducing a lawyer here. And it's very technical

40:18

stuff. It's not story, it's not character. It's

40:21

like the tax that

40:23

you build everything else on. One

40:26

of the things I'll say, look, there are some

40:28

services. I'm not gonna mention

40:30

them just because I don't know if they would

40:32

like that I mentioned or not, but I

40:34

talked to the founder of one of them. And

40:37

one of the things they do is when you

40:39

pay for this, you also get a private

40:42

YouTube video link to a table

40:45

read of your script that AI does, and you

40:47

can assign the voices to it. And

40:49

it's your whole script, right? So like, let's

40:51

say you're 90 page, whatever,

40:54

romantic comedy, it's

40:56

a table read of it. And you can hear

40:58

the dialogue out loud, and there's

41:00

a narrator voice, and you assign all the voices before you send it in, right?

41:02

And you get it quickly. And I thought- I

41:04

think you can do that in Highland too. Okay,

41:07

and this is better. It

41:09

sounded better, right? Because I listened to

41:11

it. It did sound better. Did it

41:13

sound as good as me calling Charles and

41:15

Gigi to show up and read character lines?

41:18

No, because there's no real emotion behind it.

41:20

But you can- But you say you can

41:22

assign voices. Is it like Irish woman and

41:24

French man? Or can I have like Christopher

41:26

Walken, Robert De Niro, and- I

41:29

think it's just Irish woman and French man. It

41:31

is like that. You can assign whatever, like accent.

41:33

I mean, again- Can I have Homer Simpson do

41:35

one of the parts? That's how close we are. I

41:38

think we are probably close to that in terms of

41:40

whatever. I thought that was, I told the guy. It

41:42

was like, that to me was something I might use.

41:45

Because if I just wanted to listen, I couldn't

41:47

get a group of friends together, maybe I would

41:49

use that. Because it's easy, right?

41:51

Like whatever. And the better those voices

41:53

get, I think the better shape we're

41:55

gonna be in. But the worry

41:57

always is like- I

42:00

love working with an actor who has a take on a role

42:02

that you didn't see coming. I think

42:04

we just watch the Oscars, Mark Ruffalo and Poor

42:06

Things, whether you like it or not. He's so

42:08

goofy and funny in that movie, and he breaks

42:11

a lot in the movie and starts laughing, but

42:13

they left it in because his character is a

42:15

buffoon. So it makes sense. And I'm like, man,

42:17

I don't know if on the page I would

42:19

have read him that way, but that's such a

42:22

good embodiment. And I will never be able to

42:24

do that because it's just going to see things through

42:26

one lens. I mean, Nick

42:28

Cage and Moonstruck. Yeah, Nick Cage and

42:31

Moonstruck. Yeah. Yeah. Like

42:33

I watch Moonstruck clips on YouTube like four times a year.

42:35

My wife and I watch Moonstruck together every Christmas. Like it's

42:37

just so pure. And like what those

42:39

two brought to that. I mean, for me, I

42:41

guess the AI table read, the thing I love

42:43

most about table read, I learn a lot at

42:45

a table read. Yes. But

42:47

I get my most out of the table read standing around

42:50

for an hour with everyone talking about it. Like

42:52

that's what you really, and like the

42:54

people you ask to read it because they take on the

42:56

character for the two hours, even if they're not an actor,

42:59

they're going to have thoughts. They're going to be like, you

43:01

know, it's weird to start like I started to get here and I

43:03

was like, why am I doing this in this scene? And

43:05

then you're like, oh, maybe I haven't laid that out

43:07

well enough. Maybe I haven't like it's so

43:09

and like, I guess I may I could say that I guess

43:11

I guess an AI could be like, why am I I don't

43:14

understand why I'm stabbing. Why am I

43:16

doing? Yeah. Yeah. And who

43:18

am I? It's a frustrating, like it's a

43:20

frustrating mix. I'm always looking at like, what would I use?

43:24

And I don't I just don't know that I use

43:26

any of it. And that's kind of what I told

43:28

all these people who know, like, we're no film. So

43:30

we get a lot of solicitations. You go through, I

43:32

tried testing out when they give it to me for

43:34

free. I'll always take a free thing. You know,

43:36

like I wish the gauntlet sent us it for free. I would

43:38

have loved to test it for free. But the idea is like,

43:41

just like what are we using? And I always come

43:43

back to this thing, John Gary, who's a great writer,

43:45

and we've written before coined this term called the Hope

43:47

machine, right? And that's what Hollywood is. It's this Hope

43:49

machine. You always have perpetual hope that tomorrow you could

43:52

become famous. The worry I always

43:54

have is the companies that profit

43:56

off of that Hope machine, right? Like there's

43:58

already so much quote unquote, free work

44:00

and different things. If you are charging people

44:02

to be involved, to become a cog in

44:04

the hope machine, where does

44:06

that end? And AI is the most

44:09

disingenuous form of that because it doesn't

44:11

even have what essentially has brought us

44:13

all to Hollywood, which is the desire

44:15

to entertain human beings. And if you

44:18

don't have that baseline level of what

44:20

you're paying for, then what are you

44:22

paying for? And at the end of the

44:24

day, you're paying for an algorithm that is

44:27

probably, let's say, 18 months away

44:29

from being completely moot because chat GPT at

44:31

some point will just do this. That's

44:35

how these are all engineered through open AI. So it's like,

44:37

at some point, you'll just be able to upload your PDF

44:39

and get the bullshit from

44:42

a computer. So why are we

44:44

paying this middleman? This

44:46

is pure unmitigated bullshit straight from

44:48

the origin. Single source

44:50

bullshit. I

44:52

also want to sort of add

44:55

on to this idea of

44:57

companies that are capitalizing on

44:59

the dream and taking advantage

45:01

of it and differentiate

45:03

that from resources for people

45:05

who are looking to get

45:08

feedback on their script and

45:10

improve upon it. I think it's

45:13

so easy to feel like you're in this bubble

45:16

when you're writing by yourself and it's lonely

45:18

and it's scary and you're like, is

45:20

there anything here? I have no idea.

45:22

I have no perspective anymore. And it's

45:24

very normal in Europe to have a

45:26

script doctor like that somebody who comes

45:28

in and is essentially there to pressure

45:30

test the story and poke holes in

45:32

it. And there's some amazing people that

45:35

I've worked with here who have helped

45:37

me take my ideas to the next

45:39

level, whether it's like a one-sided getting

45:41

feedback from what is it called? Slamdance.

45:43

Slamdance has an amazing feedback

45:45

assessment and you pay a little bit more to submit.

45:48

And I've gotten amazing constructive

45:50

feedback that's actionable from their

45:53

services. There's also on the page a woman

45:55

named Pilar who will work with you to

45:57

get to certain points

46:00

Jimmy at the script butcher who just

46:02

like has the, he reads the script

46:04

three times and like marks it up in

46:07

this incredible way that unlocks the story for

46:09

you. And, and I've talked about

46:11

Matt Starr, who like is the UCB guy who

46:13

has a write your pilot class. And like, to

46:15

me, it's like, these are personal trainers for

46:18

your story. So you can, you don't have

46:20

to be alone. You don't have to rely

46:23

on like, like getting it

46:25

out there in these ways where people are

46:27

like promising you things. I think you can,

46:29

you can put it out there. You can

46:31

workshop it. You can like find ways to

46:34

engage and then of course, you know, get

46:37

it to the best place possible and then get

46:39

it out into the world. But yeah, I think

46:42

I can envision a lot of people turning to

46:44

these types of services and specifically to AI because

46:46

they're like, I'm lost. I'm stuck in

46:49

this story and I don't have any perspective on there

46:51

right now. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, and

46:53

I put this in the article, that's

46:55

why you have to make friends. Like

46:58

it's like, it's why human

47:00

interaction is the most important thing

47:02

at the end of the day, getting

47:04

somewhere you may believe with the actual act and

47:06

read your script is it's a hard man. I

47:08

mean, look, I don't, I don't know if I

47:10

was living at home that I would have the connections

47:12

I have in LA. Of course I would not. Right.

47:14

And I spend time out here actively trying to have

47:17

these friendships. So I don't have to pay for these

47:19

other people to read things, but there are still people

47:21

I do and people I trust and whatever. And usually

47:23

I try to orchestrate buying the dinner around it or

47:25

whatever, or they're an executive who is going to read

47:27

it anyway because they want to make money from it.

47:29

But you know, and that's what it boils down to,

47:31

right? In Hollywood we're making movies, sure, because

47:33

we have a passion and TV, but there's

47:36

also a monetary end, right? When your script

47:38

gets hot off the black list or whatever,

47:40

it's because people think it could make them

47:42

money, right? Like doing that. And it's not

47:44

about people saying, great, though, Jason's

47:47

script thought he'll give us money. Right?

47:49

That's, that's sort of the dichotomy here. And I

47:51

do think like we are due for

47:53

that next big leap forward. I thought the black list

47:55

was really cool when it was invented,

47:57

not just the list list, but the website. Hey,

48:00

here's a direct source that's just, it's not

48:02

for notes. It's a litmus test on whether

48:04

or not you are writing at a professional

48:06

level, whether or not your idea is something

48:08

that might be able to succeed in Hollywood.

48:11

And then a database for executives,

48:13

agents, managers, whatever, to go on and

48:15

say, hey, I'm trying to fill the

48:17

need for an erotic thriller. Let me

48:19

sort by the highest rated ones on here. This

48:23

seems like a good one that's rated high. I trust

48:25

these readers because they work in Hollywood. I'll

48:27

give it a look, right? That's, that to me

48:29

is like an essential good. There

48:31

are plenty of these AI sites that are now

48:33

offering like a leaderboard and different things, but it's

48:36

that gamification. Like we talked to, remember when, like,

48:38

look, Robinhood got suits for this dumb money. If

48:40

you watch it, I think it's on Netflix. Like

48:42

that's what they got in trouble for, you know,

48:44

sending up fireworks and you buy stocks, doing stuff.

48:47

The gamification of whether or not you can buy

48:49

into this industry has been an issue for a long

48:51

time. We've seen it with some of these shadier contests, the

48:53

people who run, let's say like the websites

48:56

that run like 10 to 25 screenplay contests

48:58

a year. It's like, are they really weeding

49:00

out the wheat from the chaff or are

49:02

they just, you know, grinding up the same

49:04

slop and feeding it to the pigs? You know, like, what

49:07

are we figuring out here? And I do think at the end

49:09

of the day, my advice to anyone trying to break in is

49:12

either save up your money, don't

49:14

do it 10 times, save up your money to be able

49:17

to do it once after you've done multiple drafts and gotten

49:19

friends to look at things, to submit

49:21

to a blacklist type thing. Again, it's like around

49:23

130 when you've taken hosting. Save

49:25

it up once rather than doing it 10

49:27

times on something that

49:29

can't have a reaction. Also, these AI

49:31

sites aren't, they're not introducing you to an

49:34

AI agent and AI manager. You know, they're

49:36

not consolidating. They're just taking your money to

49:38

tell you whether things are good or not. And

49:40

can they really tell you anything besides just

49:43

structure? Not really, and they can't even really

49:45

do that. So what are we doing here?

49:48

I mean, the unfortunate thing is

49:50

one of the things, I

49:53

mean, for me, I feel a little bit like about AI

49:55

the way I did about 3D 15 years ago, where I'm

49:57

like, okay, everybody's talking about how this is gonna change. the

49:59

industry and then and fifteen years we're gonna look back and

50:01

be like remember we talked for a i was missing in

50:04

three like I don't know that is going to change things

50:06

as much as people think it is. But.

50:08

It's also like. The same

50:10

with Crypto. It's just a it's just a

50:12

machine for grants. yet like. A Crypto

50:14

Like outside the film industry there weren't

50:16

many film crypto graphs but I it

50:19

became a like do you you know

50:21

people who trade. Stocks. Make

50:23

a lot of money and you want to make a lot of money.

50:25

And here's an animal into it and it's like the same thing of

50:27

like. It. It's automating

50:29

a system of shaking people down in

50:31

a way that I like. It infuriates

50:33

me, fight, it just makes me very

50:35

mad. Some like. There. Are.

50:38

People who want to find you know it's a

50:40

natural human thing to want to tell stories. And.

50:44

The like are not for now I'm assuming

50:46

street. Well actually no Youtube into Copper the

50:48

dominant media of our time. But for those

50:50

of us attach the dominant media of the

50:52

twentieth century most efficient pictures It It is

50:54

still like an industry where you can tell

50:56

the stories and and people want to participate

50:58

in it and send a card and taking

51:00

advantage of that. Is.

51:03

Is awful. Yeah. Guys, I think rub some. I

51:05

think I'm going to bump this as know from school the next

51:07

week. Oh yeah, Zero area. So

51:10

beat We'll be back next week with an interesting answer

51:12

to a know from school which is not for dad.

51:14

an answer for sad that. Would. Have on

51:16

the oven for like yeah he was again, having gotten.

51:18

Will. Don't an audience the I wait

51:21

mass best athlete and ask. I

51:24

got on the internet, mostly on blue sky,

51:26

sometimes en masse on trial. same. I'm.

51:30

At Last. And Graceland. And geez, he hadn't

51:32

set some. At. Jason Elam in

51:34

decent know feels good I am. Semyon.

51:37

For yeah I think that of their semi everything

51:39

but I know that I just will ask the

51:41

same questions on the time and until I get

51:43

a good answer or t basket. And.

51:46

Tomorrow we're gonna have a

51:48

an interview from the slammed

51:50

Anselm Love and Work which

51:52

was made in two weeks

51:54

and for ten thousand dollars.

51:56

And it's an unconventional more

51:58

like experimental theater process. The really

52:00

wanna get out of the industry and

52:02

do something different? Tune in to that.