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gets much hotter. Very cool. This podcast

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me for the next five months and 3100 miles as I make

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just made me tired Hey

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there. It's the NPR politics podcast.

1:01

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the

1:03

White House. I'm Barbara Sprint I

1:05

cover Congress and I'm Mara Eliason

1:07

national political correspondent NPR has Extensively

1:10

covered the student protests over Israel's

1:12

handling of the war in Gaza

1:14

and the police crackdowns on some

1:16

college campuses Today on the pod

1:18

Congress is weighing in with legislation.

1:20

The house is set to vote

1:22

today Who is behind

1:24

this legislation this bill? The

1:26

anti-semitism Awareness Act is sponsored by Mike

1:29

Lawler a Republican from New York. He

1:31

has been vocal on this issue He

1:33

traveled with House Speaker Mike Johnson last

1:35

week to Columbia to talk to students

1:38

who've reported feeling unsafe on their college

1:40

campus Because they're Jewish.

1:42

Okay, and and Barbara what does

1:44

this anti-semitism Awareness Act? Actually

1:47

do what does it say? Yeah, I

1:49

mean this bill would adopt the International

1:51

Holocaust Remembrance Alliances definition

1:54

of anti-semitism to apply

1:56

to federally funded education

1:58

programs. I will read the

2:00

definition because it is so

2:02

central to people support or lack thereof.

2:05

It says, anti-Semitism is a

2:07

certain perception of Jews, which

2:09

may be expressed as hatred

2:11

towards Jews, rhetorical and physical

2:13

manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed

2:16

towards Jewish or non-Jewish individuals

2:18

and their property, towards Jewish

2:20

community institutions, and religious facilities.

2:22

Now, this goes further than the executive

2:24

order that former President Trump signed in

2:27

2019, which made Title VI of the

2:29

Civil Rights Act apply to anti-Semitic acts.

2:32

In that order, there was the suggestion

2:34

that this definition be used, but this

2:36

bill would mandate the application of this

2:39

definition. Now, some Democrats don't support this.

2:41

They say it's too vague. They've expressed

2:43

concerns that this would crack down on

2:46

free speech as it relates to

2:48

Israel and criticizing Israeli policy, but

2:50

it does have 15 Democratic co-sponsors, and

2:52

that includes Richie Torres of New

2:55

York. He's been one of the

2:57

most outspoken lawmakers on

2:59

Capitol Hill about issues of anti-Semitism, and

3:01

I spoke to him this morning about

3:03

these concerns from others in his party.

3:06

You know, there's a false narrative that

3:08

the Ira definition of anti-Semitism

3:11

censors criticism of the Israeli

3:13

government. I consider it

3:15

complete nonsense. If it were true, then

3:18

by that standard Israelis themselves would

3:20

be anti-Semitic, because no one is

3:23

more critical of the Israeli government than the Israeli people,

3:26

as evidenced by the prolonged protest against

3:28

the judicial reforms of the Netanyahu government.

3:31

So I find the criticism to be unpersuasive.

3:33

And Barbara, as you mentioned, last week

3:35

House Speaker Mike Johnson, a

3:37

Republican, went to Columbia

3:39

University, and he spoke with students,

3:42

spoke with Jewish students. That's

3:44

right. He and a couple Republican lawmakers,

3:46

when they gave remarks, they talked to

3:49

Jewish students. And how were they received?

3:51

Well, campus-wise, I would say it was

3:53

not a warm reception. After he and

3:55

the other lawmakers met with students, they

3:57

came out and did like a big press

3:59

conference. outside one of

4:01

the buildings and he was

4:04

shouted down. A growing number of students

4:06

have chanted in support of terrorists.

4:09

They have chased down Jewish students. They

4:11

have mocked them and reviled them. They have

4:13

shouted racial epithets. They

4:16

have screamed at those who bear the story

4:18

of David. Enjoy

4:24

your free speech. They

4:26

are shouting him down saying we can't hear you. So

4:31

not a warm reception from the protesters, but

4:33

he did meet with those Jewish students beforehand.

4:36

And I spoke to some of them about

4:38

what that meeting was like and many of

4:40

them said we were just so happy that

4:42

someone so high profile, someone who's third

4:44

in line to the presidency, would come and

4:46

ask to hear our stories. And

4:48

the students that I spoke with said

4:50

that while they feel that there is

4:53

a good national understanding about what protesters

4:55

are asking for when they're demanding that

4:57

their universities divest from companies that operate

5:00

in Israel, that the

5:02

concerns of anti-Semitism that these students are

5:04

raising have not been taken seriously. And

5:06

I'll just give a couple brief examples.

5:09

I spoke to one student who received

5:11

a text from a rabbi associated with

5:13

Columbia who about a week or so

5:15

ago had sent a text to a larger group

5:18

of Jewish students saying, it pains

5:20

me to say this, but I don't think that

5:22

this campus is safe anymore for Jewish students. I

5:24

think you should go home and stay there until

5:26

this resolves in some fashion. And

5:29

that prompted a lot of Jewish students

5:31

to then ask, should I come back

5:33

to school after the Passover holiday? I

5:36

spoke to some who were really weighing that

5:38

decision. I talked to students who

5:40

alleged they were blocked from coming on to

5:42

certain parts of campus. They say

5:45

they had been shoved, spat on, told

5:47

to go back to Europe. And these

5:49

were all stories that they shared with

5:51

the House Speaker. So Mara, the

5:53

politics here are interesting because

5:56

you definitely have a Republican

6:00

House Speaker really leaning in

6:02

on liberal overreach at an

6:04

Ivy League campus. It fits

6:06

the message. It fits

6:08

the message. You did not see Republican

6:10

leaders going to Charlottesville, another college town,

6:12

when white supremacist demonstrators

6:14

chanted, Jews will not replace

6:17

us. So this is extremely

6:19

advantageous according to Republican operatives

6:22

for them, because this is a deep

6:24

wedge issue inside the Democratic coalition. Young

6:27

people are opposed to Biden's policies. It's

6:29

a real problem for Democrats, and

6:32

Republicans want to make as much as they

6:34

can of these protests. Well,

6:36

and generally speaking, and there's obviously

6:39

no group of people are a monolith, but

6:41

Jewish voters tend to vote more Democratic than

6:43

they vote Republican, at least traditionally. Yes, they

6:45

do. But this is bigger than that. I

6:48

don't think that the goal of the

6:50

House Speaker is to peel off Jewish

6:52

voters for Republicans. They're a very, very

6:54

small number of Jewish voters in the

6:56

United States. What they want to do

6:58

is have this reinforce their larger message.

7:01

The world is out of control. It's

7:03

full of chaos. Biden isn't in command.

7:05

He's old and senile. He can't stop the violence

7:07

in the Middle East. He can't stop the

7:09

violence on campuses with these protests. So I

7:11

think that's what the

7:14

political aim of this is. Well, we

7:16

are going to take a quick break. And when

7:18

we get back, more in a moment. Support.

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Investing involves risk. Performance is

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a lot of issues on voters' minds right

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now. Because big ones

7:56

could help decide the election.

7:58

Guns, reproductive rights. immigration,

8:00

the economy, healthcare, and

8:02

the wars overseas. On

8:05

the Consider This podcast from NPR,

8:07

we will unpack the debates on these

8:09

issues and what's at stake. You can

8:11

listen to NPR's Consider This wherever

8:13

you get your podcasts. Taylor

8:16

Swift has dropped a new album. She

8:18

is the biggest pop star in the

8:20

world, and everything she does makes news.

8:23

I guess. I was like, oh

8:25

my god, I've been there and you

8:27

can identify with it. For a breakdown

8:30

of Taylor Swift and her new album,

8:32

The Tortured Poets Department, listen to the

8:34

Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR.

8:41

And we're back. And the Left has

8:43

a long history of campus protest. In

8:45

fact, the movement to try to get

8:47

universities to divest from Israel has been

8:49

around for years and years and years.

8:53

And there are certainly also members of

8:55

Congress, perhaps most notably Senator Bernie Sanders,

8:57

who have found common cause with the

9:00

protesters, who believe that President

9:02

Biden should do more to force Israel's

9:04

hand and push for a ceasefire. I

9:06

mean, we alluded to this before, but

9:08

this is a wedge in the Democratic

9:10

Party. It is. I mean,

9:12

and certainly there are Democrats in Congress who

9:14

do not like the way that Israelis, you

9:16

know, Prime Minister Netanyahu has conducted this

9:19

war to eliminate Hamas. And that's

9:21

been a consistent refrain among Democratic lawmakers,

9:23

Democratic voters. But

9:25

I think it's important to note here that

9:27

like what we're talking about at the beginning

9:29

of this conversation is about a bill to

9:32

address anti-Semitism legislatively and in

9:34

talking to lawmakers and students.

9:37

That is completely separate from

9:39

the conversation around what is the

9:41

policy of the Israeli government and

9:43

how they are conducting the

9:46

war against Hamas. The bill

9:48

is about anti-Semitism in response to

9:50

Jewish students alleging feelings of harassment,

9:52

feelings of being threatened And

9:55

concerns that they're not welcome on campus. And What

9:57

I'll say is like I've talked to students about

9:59

this. They say that when you

10:01

conflate those two things. The

10:03

idea that you you know the

10:05

criticism about the the war. Against

10:08

Hamas and Anti Semitism that it's a

10:11

dangerous thing is it? It's in some

10:13

ways almost like gas lighting people who

10:15

are bringing up concerns about personal safety

10:17

and saying all this is actually about

10:20

something going on over here when the

10:22

bill itself is about like protecting. Answer.

10:25

In a student from anti semitism. I.

10:27

Do wanna talk about the broader politics

10:29

of the the debate over the conflict

10:32

in Gaza and in particular the effect

10:34

that might have on presidential politics we

10:36

have. We have reported on this podcast.

10:38

It's been reported all over the place.

10:41

You hear from a lot of young

10:43

people who are upset about the way

10:45

Israel has handled the war. They want

10:47

President Biden to do more to put

10:50

more pressure on Netanyahu on. President.

10:52

Biden is putting a lot of pressure on Netanyahu,

10:54

but he seems to be a little but immune.

10:58

But but they say that there is more that can

11:00

be done. The. Question is what

11:02

does this mean In November? And it

11:04

depends on a lot of things. Number

11:06

one, what happens to the war, does

11:09

he get wrapped up? Ah what happens

11:11

to these protests to they says allowed

11:13

after people leave school and in in

11:15

another couple big summer break As since

11:18

do they re assert themselves in August

11:20

in Chicago as the Democratic convention mean

11:22

those are a lot of ifs and.

11:25

You. Know we have to see what happens,

11:28

but I can assure you that the irresistible

11:30

urge of the narrative democrats are back in

11:32

Chicago and they're violent protests in the streets

11:34

just like in Nineteen. Sixty Eight is gonna

11:36

be hard for a lot of the media

11:39

to resist. I do want to

11:41

ask you though more about this recent

11:43

Harvard youth Paul that didn't have Zaza

11:45

at the top the list, even among

11:47

young voters voters eighteen to twenty nine.

11:50

A. Harvard youth poll asked young voters

11:52

thinking about national issues, which issues

11:54

concerning the most and not surprisingly,

11:56

economic issues got the most at

11:58

twenty seven percent. But way

12:01

down the list as the Israeli Palestine

12:03

conflict, only two percent said that was

12:05

an issue that they cared about the

12:07

most. Even though the

12:10

vast majority of young people,

12:12

ah. Are. Unhappy with Israel's

12:14

conduct of the war, it. Doesn't.

12:16

Seem like this is rising to the top as a

12:19

voting issue. Among the sixty percent of

12:21

voters who even have an opinion. Is

12:23

Young voters were split on showing more or

12:25

less support for Israel, and they're also split

12:27

on showing more or less. Support for Palestine.

12:29

It turns out the young people

12:31

are just like other voters. They

12:34

care about the economy and also

12:36

like you know out, there have

12:38

been recent exceptions about the participation

12:40

rates of young people, but overall,

12:42

it's never. I don't think any

12:45

party is ever hanging there hasn't

12:47

on the youth coming out soon

12:49

to support some in an election.

12:51

I mean, there is low participation

12:53

rates among young people. Are

12:55

worth more broadly traditionally overtime.

12:58

And so I do doubts at

13:00

this point and the poll is

13:02

a good example of that. but

13:04

I do just I haven't yet

13:07

seen any numbers that convince me

13:09

that the frustration and anger at

13:11

that protesters and young. People say they

13:13

feel about this is actually going to move the

13:15

needle. You know, come November?

13:17

Yeah, I mean the passion is

13:19

undeniable. The passion is very real,

13:21

and the question is how widespread

13:23

it is within the electorate, and

13:25

how. Important is it compared to other motivations

13:27

for people to for how actionable as of

13:29

yet rail. And you know

13:32

there is this longstanding. Truth

13:34

that even though. Foreign.

13:36

Policy gets a lot of focus, particularly

13:38

a lot of focus from the President

13:40

of the United States and and their

13:42

time and had space. In the end,

13:44

voters vote on things that affects them

13:47

personally. Generally. Speaking, I mean there

13:49

are only except for when they're American. People.

13:52

Soldiers on the ground overseas. but this

13:54

could be an exception. You know I

13:56

always say this historical rules only work

13:58

till they stop working. You. Know

14:00

maybe this is an exception. But you're absolutely

14:03

right, Foreign policy. Other than an

14:05

act of war with Americans, Involved has never

14:07

been a top determined are in

14:09

a presidential election right? Well, We're

14:11

going to leave it there for today. Realizing

14:13

there is still much more to say. I'm

14:15

Hammer Keys. I cover the White House. I'm

14:18

Barbara Sprint and cover Congress and I

14:20

more Elias national political correspondent and. Thank

14:22

you for listening to the Npr. Politics Factor.

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