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As the all this forty three year

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as though the pain may be gone now

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that she has this bionic him. That's

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true You everybody I've talked to has gotten them

1:00

said that they feel much better after. I'm

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happy with the ones I have right now. Salsa

1:04

dance ready! Hey.

1:06

There it's the Npr Politics podcast. I'm Tammy

1:08

Keith. I cover the White House and human

1:11

of his Dna Car Politics. And I'm

1:13

Dominica Mountain or a senior political editor and correspondent.

1:15

For. President Donald Trump's first criminal

1:17

trial has begun in New York.

1:20

The jury has been seeded and

1:22

we're about a week into testimony.

1:24

Eminent. Just remind us of what's

1:27

at issue here. These are state

1:29

charges in part related to payments

1:31

made to two women during the

1:33

Twenty sixteen Presidential campaign who were

1:36

alleged to have had affairs in

1:38

the past with former President Trump.

1:40

So these aren't Thirty four felony

1:43

counts of falsifying business record Many

1:45

of. These which are payments made

1:47

to his ten lawyer Michael Cohen.

1:49

The prosecution is arguing that these

1:51

were reimbursements to Cohen because Cohen

1:53

arrange for these payments to be

1:55

made. I had to these two

1:57

women, one was a Playboy model.

2:00

One was an adult, some actor

2:02

who were allegedly about to come

2:04

out with a potential scandal that

2:07

could hurt Donald Trump's twenty sixteen

2:09

presidential run rate, and Dominica. All

2:11

of this. Was a

2:13

potentially going to come out right around

2:15

the time of that Access Hollywood video.

2:17

In this critical moment and Trump's campaign

2:19

where where he was against the ropes.

2:22

Yeah, that's why the prosecution is saying

2:24

that this is an election interference case

2:26

because they're essentially catching killings. These stories

2:28

that could make Trump look bad weeks

2:30

before the election when the Access Hollywood

2:32

tapes had already been out there, it's

2:34

this would have been compounding and could

2:36

have hurt Trump. Suit David Pecker

2:38

is the former publisher of the

2:41

National Enquirer, which is a supermarket

2:43

tabloid we've all heard of and

2:45

he is a key witness in

2:47

the case and the first witness

2:49

that that that the jury has

2:51

heard from. He's testified for hours

2:53

and hours on end, and he

2:55

does play this sort of critical

2:57

role in that his organization was

2:59

it. To to use this

3:02

term that the medical just said

3:04

catching in killing stories. So a

3:06

minute talk to us about what

3:08

the jury has been hearing from

3:10

David Pecker and and just what's

3:12

the catch and kill thing is

3:14

what the arrangement was that that

3:16

the National Enquirer had with candidate

3:18

Trump. Salt Pepper really sets the

3:20

scene in a starting to testify

3:22

about how he has known Trump

3:24

for decades. I'm going back to

3:26

the eighties and nineties. In a

3:28

Trump is a celebrity in the

3:30

United. States you know he's known

3:32

figure for the tabloids a sometimes

3:35

even a friend tipping tablets office

3:37

said they already have a relationship

3:39

now. In August of Twenty Fifteen,

3:41

it's Packer testified that he was

3:44

called into a meeting with Trump

3:46

and Poland and in this meeting

3:48

it was just after Trump had

3:51

announced his presidential bad. They asked

3:53

him what can you do to

3:55

help the presidential campaign and Pepper

3:58

says that in this meta. He

4:00

kind of agree to three things: First. He

4:02

would use his network of tabloids

4:04

to publish really good press about

4:06

Donald Trump. He would also use

4:08

the same tabloids to specifically publish

4:10

very negative press about his opponents

4:12

and scandals and m embellish anything

4:15

that could be heard by the

4:17

other thing that he promised us

4:19

to be like the eyes and

4:21

ears of the Trump campaign cel

4:23

their this network of tabloids national

4:25

Enquirer obviously being the biggest man

4:27

and they views you know kind

4:29

of the the whispered the sourcing

4:31

that work. To trickle the

4:33

information up from reporters to

4:35

editor, from editor, eventually to

4:37

David Packer and then David

4:40

Packer would report anything that

4:42

could be heard to Michael

4:44

Cohen, specifically stories or allegations

4:46

coming from women, And so

4:48

ultimately. Packard. Did.

4:50

It. Come. Into these stories. didn't

4:52

make these stories go away for

4:54

Trump? Yes. And so that's the

4:56

catch and kill. So he weighed

4:58

find these stories he'd send him

5:00

up. So that's attach than the

5:02

kill is is that they would

5:04

pay off the source and he says

5:07

you know, paying off a source

5:09

that something normal for a tabloid

5:11

they would do that. but it

5:13

wasn't always normal to just not

5:15

run the story once you pay

5:17

money for it. Was

5:19

to kill. Big picture here as

5:21

instance packers important as a witness notice

5:24

because of what he has revealed but

5:26

also his credibility Because you know Michael

5:28

Cohen is certainly come under attack from

5:30

Trump or multiple times and with some

5:33

good reason because he has lied under

5:35

oath previously. He did go to jail

5:37

for lying to Congress, you know, So.

5:40

Having someone like Pecker on the same

5:42

essentially you give another angle to the

5:44

story that we really haven't heard of.

5:46

I think is more evidence on the

5:48

prosecution side or that hasn't been out

5:50

there really previously. In hearing it from

5:53

packers mouth, he was. A step back

5:55

though I have like the most basic question

5:57

of all. Oh. Why is

5:59

any of this? We are. What is the

6:01

crime here that is alleged? Yeah. We get

6:03

a complicated case who talked about a little

6:05

bit before but this is actually a case

6:07

about falsification of business records in the have

6:09

to show furtherance of another crime to be

6:12

able to make this a felony on. And

6:14

that's what they're talking about when they get

6:16

to election interference and campaign finance violations. And

6:18

I will say Trump has. Pleaded. Not

6:20

Guilty. And his defense and what his

6:23

lawyers are arguing is that he didn't

6:25

do anything illegal. None of this is

6:27

wrong. and I and quote, there's nothing

6:30

wrong with trying to influence and election.

6:32

That's what they called democracy. That's what

6:34

they said. an opening statements and paying

6:37

off a porn star is not technically

6:39

illegal. As money or not illegal

6:41

that that is there point and or trump

6:43

side. he to keeps arguing that all he

6:46

was doing was paying his lawyer. Well,

6:48

I mean it's different, right? when you're changing

6:50

what your business shows that you're trying to

6:52

do because it implies a cover up that

6:55

you don't want people to find out about

6:57

this man. I think that's really with the

6:59

heart of this is because we've seen. It's

7:01

not just this case, but in the bigger

7:04

contexts. What the state has gone after the

7:06

Trump Organization over has been a lot of

7:08

fraudulent business practices. I and and I think

7:10

that that's a big piece of of why

7:13

this matters in the beer context. As

7:15

a matter. Of. This is the

7:17

campaign now. I'm what has Trump's mood

7:19

been like? What have we seen from

7:22

him around these trial days? Which or

7:24

four days a week. Yeah

7:26

it is a rains I think

7:28

at times he is very attentive.

7:30

He has been watching Packer as

7:32

he testifies when we did it

7:35

jury selection last week. Sometimes he

7:37

would be watching the jars everyday

7:39

Americans as they talked about their

7:41

personal lives and their opinions and

7:43

feelings about how much as a

7:45

candidate. Ah at other times he

7:47

seems a little bored. It's he

7:50

has arms are crossed, he's looking

7:52

down at his eyes will be

7:54

closed for some time. As

7:56

and so there definitely is is arranged

7:58

there and I'll just say. You can't separate

8:00

the politics from a lot of this and

8:02

the timing of where we're at here six

8:04

months before the general election. And there's a

8:07

big ethics piece of this that's at play.

8:11

When he was president, former president of Trump now, he

8:14

lied on Air Force One when he was asked

8:16

about this. He admitted later to making these payments.

8:18

And beyond the trial, it's something people are going

8:20

to have to consider when they cast their ballots.

8:23

Right. And we should say that

8:25

all of this comes in a week when Trump's

8:28

claim of absolute immunity was

8:30

before the Supreme Court yesterday

8:32

related to a different indictment, a federal

8:34

indictment related to January 6th. Also

8:37

more of his allies have been indicted,

8:40

this time in Arizona, including false electors,

8:42

as well as his former White House

8:44

chief of staff and several of his

8:47

private attorneys. There is just a lot

8:49

going on, Domenico. It's a huge

8:51

dragnet that we continue to see. Although

8:53

I have to say it's super interesting.

8:55

I think there are legitimate questions about

8:57

Arizona and why this case is brought

8:59

now, years after the

9:01

fact, when this could have been taken up

9:03

earlier. And

9:06

it's also interesting that we continue to

9:08

see these quote unquote fake electors who

9:11

are gone after

9:13

or prosecuted. And it obviously

9:15

is proving much more difficult for prosecutors to

9:17

go to the top here. And it's surprising

9:19

to me in some respects that we haven't

9:21

seen more cases like we see in

9:23

Georgia to sort of be able to climb

9:26

that ladder and try to get to the

9:28

top because without Donald Trump, none of this

9:30

takes place. Yeah. All

9:32

right. Well, we are going to leave this

9:34

conversation here and Jimena, thank you for dropping

9:36

by. Thank you. And when

9:38

we come back, the economy

9:41

and this election. The

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Indicator from Planet Money is all in

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the climate-ravaged year of 2072, the city

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now on Wondery Plus. And

11:16

we're back with Asma Holland. Hey Asma!

11:18

Hey there! And you were just back

11:20

from a reporting trip to Pennsylvania. Tell

11:22

us where exactly you went and why

11:24

you went there. Yes. So I went

11:26

to Northampton County in Pennsylvania. It's one

11:29

of these rare parts of the country

11:31

that went for President Obama, then

11:33

voted for President Trump, the former president,

11:35

and most recently in 2020, opted

11:38

for President Biden. So it's really flipped. You

11:40

kind of meet a good mix of Republicans,

11:42

Democrats and folks in the middle. And

11:45

I'm sure you know this, but there's not

11:47

a whole lot of counties that actually fit

11:49

that description anymore. And one

11:51

of the main reasons I went there

11:53

is when inflation and prices first began

11:55

to tick up noticeably by economic data

11:57

standpoints in the summer of 2020. I

12:00

went up to Northampton County. And so here we

12:02

are close to three years later. Inflation

12:05

has ticked down, but many voters still say the

12:07

economy is a big concern of theirs. So

12:10

I went back to this specifically same county to get a

12:12

sense of where people are now. And

12:14

how are they feeling? I mean, like,

12:17

obviously, inflation has slowed, but prices are

12:19

still higher than they were four or

12:21

five, six years ago. Exactly. And

12:23

I will say that there was a consensus, Republicans and

12:26

Democrats, people don't feel great

12:28

about the state of the economy. It really

12:30

does come down to prices. I heard this

12:33

from a cross section of voters. In fact,

12:35

I even interviewed this macro economist who works

12:37

at one of the local universities there. And

12:40

she even said, you know, look, I know how

12:42

economic data works, but even I have sticker shock.

12:45

She says, when I go in, I mean,

12:47

it is just, I think, in many people's

12:49

minds, in her view, that we have this

12:51

mental price point of pre-pandemic, what things should

12:53

cost. And our minds haven't really readjusted because

12:55

inflation was not that high for many, many

12:57

years. She said it'll

12:59

take some time to sort that out. But

13:02

the idea that prices are really going to drop down

13:04

to where they were before the pandemic, most

13:06

experts, most economists will say that's not going

13:08

to happen. I think that is the

13:11

difficult thing is people adjusting to a new

13:13

normal, and they haven't quite come around

13:15

to it yet. I mean, you know,

13:17

the Gallup Economic Index showed people have

13:19

gotten a little bit more confident about

13:21

the economy, but still only 30 percent

13:23

are saying that the economy is either

13:25

excellent or good. And it's been basically

13:27

flat since January or so.

13:30

So you know, people are starting to get

13:32

a little bit more confident about the economy.

13:34

And I think it's the kind of thing

13:36

that floats all boats or sort of sinks

13:38

them politically. It's sort of the mood in

13:40

general is driven by this, even if it's

13:42

not the top voting issue for a lot

13:44

of people. And you know, Biden

13:47

really sort of needs in the next two to

13:49

three months for views of the economy to at

13:51

least be improved, or at least not blame him

13:53

as much on his handling of it so

13:55

that he can sort of benefit at

13:57

least a couple points across the swing states. The

14:00

talk about the vibe session. Even

14:02

in as the you know the

14:05

objective economic data jobs report things

14:07

like that have wages yet way

14:09

is up. Real wages even have

14:12

been. really it's been good news

14:14

and yet. The. Mood is

14:16

not that good and as as you

14:19

sound I so do You have a

14:21

sense though. The. How much this

14:23

matters? I'm and and not even a crazy

14:25

question to ask is usually we're like oh

14:27

the economy. This is the most important issue.

14:29

I met Luis as got a money. He's

14:31

a truck driver, he owns his own fuck

14:33

into the to meet, you know, fixing it,

14:35

the maintenance, the fuel. all that feels really

14:37

pricey to him these days. Most

14:40

recent a drugs double the

14:42

size my maternity wards. Depressed

14:45

for the laws are really low so

14:47

for me. It is

14:50

really difficult and the prices going

14:52

shopping as his size. I met

14:54

him outside of the Walmart parking lots and

14:56

he's a republican and he's had this grocery

14:59

cart full with just feel three four bags

15:01

of groceries and he pulled out his receipt

15:03

and it was a hundred and thirty nine

15:05

dollars and his ult. so people see that

15:08

they are frustrated. Sport it. It was super

15:10

interesting is that he is like a realist

15:12

about what life was like under Trump's He

15:14

remembers that at times it was alarming and

15:17

he is still in the stole Jack. For

15:19

the economy, A couple years ago I'm doing. where

15:21

was. I know he was a lot.

15:23

Of sites and a conduit. Lot are

15:25

you know if he's. Gonna. Look

15:27

a Civil war was financially or was

15:30

better. His fond memories of the Trump

15:32

Economy Llc we're not particularly unique and I

15:34

don't even know that they were particularly predictive

15:36

of how people say that they would vote.

15:38

I met a democrat there as well her

15:40

name is Ruth and Eris as she is

15:42

retired and she told me it's really hard

15:44

to stay on top of expenses right now.

15:47

It really limits your disposable income because you

15:49

have to spend money on necessities and said

15:51

i'm on now suffering entertainment and like that

15:53

To tell me she buys a lot of

15:55

frozen dinners and you know she's to buy

15:57

whatever she wanted but now the automatically looks

15:59

for the ones on sale and so she

16:02

told me. You know she personally feels worse

16:04

off than she did during the Trump years

16:06

So I know when Trump was in office

16:08

it was sad but my Four O One

16:10

K was just one up and up and

16:12

up. I mean it was wonderful to watch

16:14

it and then he know inviting came in

16:16

I didn't happen snacks or economic experts that

16:19

worsley about this he said yes it is

16:21

true the Snp five hundred when up about

16:23

forty six percent during Donald Trump's for three

16:25

years in office it has risen twenty six

16:27

percent During Bidens an heiress I will say

16:29

like. A lot of voters didn't mention the

16:32

last year of the economy under Trump and

16:34

cove it. But I think what's interesting is

16:36

that like many voters do have this, it

16:38

feels old, frozen memory right? And and a

16:41

pandemic is this is blip and then they

16:43

re of her should say mates. They feel

16:45

like they blame Biden Now for the academy

16:47

is still intends to vote for Biden this

16:50

November. She wants to see a more stable

16:52

United States. She does not saying that Trump

16:54

and the chaos. Was worth the short term

16:56

gain of a four o one k going

16:58

up A using his by there is the

17:00

sort of pandemic amnesia that's gone on with

17:02

a lot of people in the electorate including

17:05

in the Trump campaign continues to ask are

17:07

you better off than you or four years

17:09

ago I mean and worried are you for

17:11

years it was a for you know about

17:13

when he is when he right like we

17:15

were as essentially all gonna be shuttered at

17:17

home I as if we really means is

17:19

five years ago more during my administration's I'm

17:21

because it's interesting that he sort of is

17:23

teflon dawn when it comes to the. Pandemics,

17:25

collapse in those economy that happened

17:28

under him and it's all stick

17:30

in the biden when it comes

17:32

to have it in a really

17:34

inflation that's related to the recovery

17:36

from the pandemic. well as and

17:38

this is not that different from what

17:40

happened with former president obama are you

17:42

know like the economy completely collapsed in

17:45

the final months of the bush administration

17:47

and then obama came in and had

17:49

to clean it up but he got

17:51

a lot of blame for the things

17:53

he did to try to clean it

17:55

up and he ultimately did win reelection

17:58

but moods about the economy's work still

18:00

extremely sour in 2012. And

18:02

maybe that's instructive to the point that

18:04

Asma's making, that maybe people aren't necessarily

18:06

voting 100% on the economy, because that

18:09

was true then too, that people were

18:11

a bit more sour on the economy.

18:13

Just as they are now, people are

18:15

being pushed to vote for different reasons.

18:17

All right, we're going to leave this here for

18:19

today, but when we get back, it's

18:21

time to can't let it go. On

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we... cannot stop thinking about

20:01

politics or otherwise. I'm

20:04

going to go first. There was

20:06

this totally crazy story where these

20:08

military horses in London escaped.

20:11

They were in some sort of

20:13

training. They broke free, four horses

20:15

running loose, banging into buses and

20:17

taxis. And the white horse had

20:20

blood on its legs and it

20:22

was very alarming looking.

20:24

I saw those pictures and

20:26

they were terrifying. Yeah, I

20:28

know that the horses were

20:30

probably terrified also, but I was

20:33

like, I cannot imagine walking the

20:35

streets of London and

20:37

seeing wild horses with blood on them.

20:39

I heard this story and I felt like it

20:41

was a sign of the apocalypse. And I was

20:43

like, oh my goodness. And then I heard that

20:45

it's a pretty normal reason for what

20:48

happened. These are military horses and they

20:50

got spooked by construction in

20:53

the city and they sort of just kind of took

20:55

off. Yeah. Horses are

20:58

so big and so powerful that I

21:00

find them very scary. I know lots

21:02

of people love horses and I am

21:05

just like, stay away from me.

21:07

I don't know where to stand so you won't kick me.

21:12

But I'm donkey. Asma, what can't

21:14

you let go of? This is like strange

21:17

alleged human behavior. I'm

21:19

with President Biden

21:21

the other week and he visited

21:23

this war memorial where one of

21:26

his relatives, an uncle of his

21:28

who was part of World War

21:30

II was never

21:32

found. He was apparently

21:34

shot down over Papua New Guinea during

21:36

World War II. And afterwards, Biden spoke

21:38

to us about his visit to the war memorial

21:41

and I was part of the presidential pool. So

21:43

I was there with my big boom mic, listening

21:45

to my headphones. And he basically

21:47

said, I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but he

21:49

said, they never found the body. There

21:51

were a lot of cannibals for real in that part of

21:54

New Guinea. And then he kind of just moved on. And

21:56

I remember that like there was a lot of news that

21:58

day. And in the moment I was like. Should I

22:00

interrupt to be like, sir, are you suggesting

22:02

that your uncle was eaten by cannibals? But

22:04

it also felt like we should move on

22:06

to the supplemental and ask some really noisy

22:08

questions about that. Anyhow, long story

22:10

short, it seems like Biden brought the

22:13

story up again. It has created this

22:15

kerfuffle though, on the diplomatic stage, where

22:17

apparently Papa New Guinea's leader, you know,

22:19

rightfully took offense after the president

22:21

implied his uncle was eaten by cannibals. And

22:24

what was strange is that, you know,

22:26

our editor actually flagged this report that

22:28

suggests that, you know, Biden's uncle's plane

22:31

was shot down. He, the

22:33

plane apparently crashed into the ocean. There is

22:35

no evidence he was actually eaten by cannibals.

22:38

We all have family legends, right, that

22:40

are like handed down. And,

22:42

you know, like my grandfather allegedly dug

22:44

a ditch that one of the atomic

22:46

bombs was used to load into one

22:49

of the planes in World War Two.

22:51

No idea whether it's true. Like

22:54

literally no idea. But,

22:56

you know, when I go to the space museum,

22:58

I'm like, oh, look, great

23:01

grandfather, Pop, dug a hole for that

23:03

plane. I don't know if it's true.

23:07

Domenica, what can't you let go of? Much

23:09

lighter note, I can't let

23:11

go of Rhode Islanders and

23:13

their love of Dunkin Donuts

23:17

because there was a car that

23:19

drove into a Dunkin Donuts. And

23:22

that sounds terrifying, too. These are

23:25

very terrifying. It is. And

23:27

there was a young man outside of

23:29

the Dunkin Donuts. His mom apparently works

23:31

there. And this young man who was

23:33

interviewed by WPRI and he was, you

23:35

know, asked, how do you feel about

23:37

this? Like, and he said, you know,

23:39

I'm happy she didn't get hit. That

23:42

would have not been good. I think

23:44

they said it was a car malfunction.

23:46

And then he delivered this Line. I

23:48

was just like, like, America doesn't just run our

23:50

Dunkin cars, you can't. And he kind of like

23:52

does a side eye to the camera gym style

23:54

from the office at the end. Like, I just

23:56

got y'all. I Just couldn't let go of the

23:58

guts on this kid. Think of that and

24:01

to do it yesterday out. And

24:03

other for this week let's go get

24:06

some coffee are executive producer is Maasai

24:08

Metairie are editor is Eric Mcdaniel are

24:10

producers are genuine han morale and selling

24:12

one singer. Special thanks to Doing Farrington

24:14

I'm former chief I haven't let us

24:17

I must have a holiday. Also cover

24:19

the White House. And hims medical must

24:21

nursing your political editor and correspondent. And

24:23

thanks for listening, Speak, and. Our phones. In

24:25

fact, that. There.

24:34

Are a lot of issues on voters'

24:36

minds right now. Six big ones

24:38

could help decide. Be Election

24:40

Guns, Reproductive rights, Immigration, The

24:43

economy, Health care and the

24:45

wars overseas On the Consider

24:47

this podcast from Npr We

24:49

Will Unpack. The debates on these

24:51

issues and what's at stake. You can

24:54

listen to Npr consider. This wherever

24:56

you get your podcasts across.

24:58

America history is often recorded on

25:00

small markers. You've probably seen them

25:03

on the sides of roads in

25:05

front of buildings in the middle

25:07

of nowhere. Npr Lawyers Sullivan spent

25:10

a year investigating thousands of markers

25:12

and sound a distorted version of

25:14

America's history but also curiosities. Humor:

25:17

Enjoy! Listen to the new episode

25:19

of the Sunday Story on the

25:21

Up First podcast from Npr. The

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Indicator from Point of Money is a

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Bailey Podcast that helps to make sense

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of what's happening in the economy, and

25:30

video games are a growing slice of

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that economy, with billions of people around

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the world identifying as gamers. That's why

25:37

we're dedicating a weeklong series to the

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growing business of video games. Listen to

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The Indicator for Penn America cast and

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Mps.