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The OCD and Anxiety Podcast by Robert James Coaching.

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Music.

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Hello and welcome to The OCD and Anxiety Podcast where we explore how to have

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a more positive relationship with anxiety disorders disorders,

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taking back control so that you can start living the life you choose and not

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the one chosen by your fears. Music.

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Hello and welcome to episode 388. I

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hope that wherever you are today you're doing very well and if you are struggling

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with OCD or anxiety as you may know you can get a free session from me to get

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that you can head over to my website robertjamescoaching.com and there you can

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book in for that free session directly or if you prefer you can send me a message

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and let me know about what you're struggling with.

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In today's podcast I meet with the fantastic Dr Romi.

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Dr Romi is a board certified physician who brings together more than two decades

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of leadership in neurology, integrative medicine and mindfulness.

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She is an award-winning speaker working with Fortune 500 companies,

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professional athletes and global associations.

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Her Brain Shift program improves mental well-being and helps to build a culture of wellness.

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Dr. Romi serves as Chief Wellness Officer for Great Wolf Resorts.

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Her expertise is featured in the national media such as NPR,

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NBC, TED Talks and Forbes.

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Her first book The Busy Brain Cure is or has been published by HarperCollins

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this year and you can learn more about Dr Romi by heading over to drromi.com

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or join the brain shift movement at Dr Romi on social media.

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I think you're going to find it's a really wide-ranging conversation today.

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Obviously we're talking about really kind of different

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things and seeing kind of where they they meet with

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dr romey being much more focused on the

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idea of wellness looking at stress looking

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at how we can manage difficult experiences

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in our life more more positively in

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a more helpful way and i'm obviously talking a

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bit more about ocd and anxiety so you know we have a different approach but

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there's actually lots of crossover over and interesting things that we kind

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of talk about so I really hope that you find it helpful if you have any questions

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at all about anything that we do speak about do please let me know and off we go.

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Dr. Remy, welcome to the podcast. Robert, hello.

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Excited to be with you today. And I take a pause most of all to give gratitude to the listeners today.

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I don't take anybody's time for granted and they chose to put you and I between their ears today.

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Yeah, that's really nice. That's a great way to start. So thank you for that.

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And yeah, maybe you could give us a little bit of background, please. Absolutely.

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Now, I really humbly come here to say my message today for anyone listening

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on your podcast is if you're having a moment where you feel alone,

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know that maybe Robert and I are here for you today.

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I know what that feels like. I, you know, hear because we know that chronic stress can cause physical disease

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and chronic stress can kill you. And it almost killed me.

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And in my book, The Busy Brain Cure, and in my TED Talk, I talk about how in

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2010, I underwent life-saving surgery.

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And I'm a brain doctor, Robert. I should have known better.

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But do you know the worst part of this whole journey isn't those few sentences.

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The worst part of this journey was I loved my job. And I was suffering.

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And it was visibly showing. And nobody stopped to ask me if I was okay or tell me that they were there for

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me. And I remember walking the hospital corridors feeling so alone and in shame as well.

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And that's why I'm here today with a cure for the busy brain.

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But most of all, to let someone know that's out there listening to this podcast that they're not alone.

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Yeah, that's fantastic. So you are a doctor by trade, but obviously you changed at some point.

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So could you tell us a little bit about that transition, please, and why you did that?

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Now, I was raised here in the United States as a daughter of immigrants.

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My dad is a doctor, and I was the first woman on my mom's side of the family

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and even on my dad's side of the family to go to graduate school.

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I was raised with the success mantra, we have one daughter and you will become a doctor. And I did.

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With so much love and support of a family unit and my aunties that you read about in the book.

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And I entered neurology at a time where less than 5% of the brain doctors in America were women.

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And I loved my job, loved brain science, loved taking care of patients.

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But I wasn't taking care of myself. And this isn't just a problem for doctors and nurses globally.

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Globally, we are in the middle of a burnout crisis, and nobody wants to be told

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to eat berries or breathe or look at more Instagram reels of unicorns and puppies

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anymore. Like, we need a solution. And after I went through my life-saving surgery and burnout and learning about

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integrative medicine and holistic health and mindfulness, I started to research

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what is the solution in the workplace. place.

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So today in 2024, when you and I are doing this interview, in addition to being

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board certified in neurology and integrative medicine, I serve as a chief wellness

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officer in a company of over 12,000 employees.

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So my job is to look at, at scale, how do you improve the mental well-being

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and happiness and health of people in the workplace?

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And that's why I'm here today. And And that research that we've done is now

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part of a global bestselling book, The Busy Brain Cure, the eight-week plan

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to find focus, tame anxiety, and sleep again.

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So that's why I'm here. And that's a high level of my transition.

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But ask me all the detailed questions you want, because you know there's details.

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And as we say, spill the tea.

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Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, I think it's always very

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good when people have their own personal experience of hardship,

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of adversity, going through a difficult time.

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And it really helps you to understand stress, anxiety in a different kind of

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way when you've had your own kind of struggle with it.

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So, so what was, what was that experience like when you were really going through it with,

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with stress and anxiety and what were some of the most important things that

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you took from that experience that you're, you know, that helped you today to

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kind of turn this corner and now help other people with their own struggles?

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How do you define success? It's a loaded question that I want everyone listening

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to just stop here and write it down or talk about it or send an Instagram or

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Twitter message to Robert and myself.

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How do you define success? Because back in those days, my success was the titles,

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doctor, researcher, the research grants, the fabulous designer shoes I was wearing.

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Like that is how I define success. But when I was sitting in the doctor's office and he's like,

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Romy, you are the youngest patient I've seen with this disease and the most

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severe case and you're going to need multiple surgeries.

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Surgeries there was this moment robert i don't

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know how to describe it other than this entity known

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as hope departed my soul like i could

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feel it literally departing my soul and sitting there and darkness and there

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ain't no supplement antidepressant drug mantra voodoo that will help you in

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that moment because if there was my family would have given it to me and i'm

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sitting there in a hopeless moment. And that was because I was working at the edge of burnout to have success.

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And when you have a busy brain or you're chasing that dopamine high, what is success?

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What is success to us as entrepreneurs even today or leaders in both of our

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networks listening to this podcast is let me have a successful sales for quarter two of this year,

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or I'll be successful Or I'll be successful when my child goes to college.

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And then you'll always go to the next thing.

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So one is, what is success really to you?

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And do you have to live on the edge of burnout to get that?

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And those are really spiritually loaded questions, but something I want people

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to listen to because you have so many amazing experts talking about mental and

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brain health on your podcast. But maybe today I'm going to ask us to dig a little deeper because these concepts

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go along with that opening line that I said, do you feel alone?

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Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's really powerful.

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And I think the way that people interpret their challenges,

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their anxiety, OCD, whatever they're going through, is a really big part of

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whether they're going to be able to see it from a light of, okay,

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this is here and I can kind of lean into this challenge and I can take it on.

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Or whether it's a challenge that feels completely overwhelming,

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something that you feel that you can't even kind of find your footing at all.

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It's about control and will I succeed?

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And that's ego. And when we're in that place of ego, of I need to control this

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situation, I need to control this deadline at work, I need to control my email inbox.

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I mean, these are regular things. I need to control my bank account and be able

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to pay my rent or mortgage. I mean, you know, I'm not minimizing these things that are important.

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Yeah. But you're right. With OCD and anxiety, you do that.

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It is a manifestation of ego. And when we heal a busy brain,

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and you and I will unpack this, and we can shift or brain shift into that place of hope,

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then you can succeed without sitting in OCD, anxiety, or busy brain or getting

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to the edge of burnout. now. Yeah, I love that. And I really like the focus on the word hope now,

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because so often in the past, particularly in the 80s and 90s,

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there was this big focus on positive thinking.

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You just have to think positively and things are going to turn out well.

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And okay, maybe being positive sometimes does have its place,

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but actually hope is a much more realistic and healthy perspective on things. Yes.

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Hope is that I've done the actual work in mind, body, and spirit.

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To cultivate optimism. And that from that hope, I'm going to set realistic goals

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that maybe aren't in alignment with ego.

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So I'm going to go back to my story, Robert, as an example, and maybe you can

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share something as well, right? That success to me was, you know, will I get another research paper published

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as a doctor or another research brand or a success?

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You know, I annoy people in the opening chapters of my book because I want you

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to feel that level of annoyance because this is the world today on Instagram.

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It was all about the labels I was wearing. I was like, okay,

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I'm stressed at work. Let me just buy another Prada outfit.

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And it's the things we wear or the things we accumulate.

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And instead, when we sit down and redefine success and say, I'm optimistic and what do I hope for?

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Well, then it isn't just about that next research grant or your quarterly sales

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goal or buying the latest designer purse. Don't get me wrong. I still love my shoes.

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I ain't going to lie to you. But that isn't what's defining my success.

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Otherwise, that's going to fuel anxiety, OCD.

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You'll never be happy. Get a busy brain and you keep going.

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And I think that's what's so important.

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But when we switch to a place of hope, it's what do I hope for right now?

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What do I hope for? I want to give you a concrete example related to business.

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I hope anybody that is suffering from a busy brain has access to this book,

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to this podcast, gets the lab slip and goes to their primary care doctor to

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get to the root cause of their anxiety and busy brain.

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And so from there, I can build goals.

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Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's fantastic.

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Okay. And so for you with your story, this

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new kind of focus on on hope and

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trying to move away from things that were perhaps

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keeping you trapped no these things

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that you thought that you wanted that were actually kind

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of you know the the bars on on on a jail unfortunately you know it's this golden

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gilded cage right the golden handcuffs yeah first of all let's be real i loved

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neurology i've loved my patients i love to do it it's just Just I was pushing

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myself to the edge of burnout and busy brain.

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And I would never pause to say, oh, I did this.

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Let's be OK with this. Yeah.

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What do I hope for? Do I need to do more? Otherwise, we're never satisfied.

13:59

Yeah. So what was the ultimate kind of turning point for you? Yeah.

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I ain't going to lie. I'm in the hospital. I'm now not working.

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I don't know how long I'm going to be out of work.

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And I'm laying in the hospital thinking, oh, good God, nothing I learned in

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medical school is going to help me now. If I just recover from surgery and go back to that same job,

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I'm going to end up needing another surgery.

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I don't know what to do. And that was that turning point.

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And I really want to be clear with the listeners. That was 2010. It is now 2024.

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I did not find the answer by what, well, YouTube really wasn't that big then.

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You don't just get the answer by listening to one podcast or one YouTube.

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You have to go through it. And while I wrote a book, that journey of the book

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of me finding my solution, then researching the solution for others took about

14:57

eight years absolutely yeah yeah

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okay so so there you there you were you you went through this horrendous experience

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you had to have operations and you realized that you you wanted to to change

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your life turn things around you you wrote this book the busy brain cure.

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So what are the main principles that kind of underpin the book and the work that you do?

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Are you stuck on a success stress cycle?

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Meaning in order to get your next successful goal, you're stressing yourself

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out. We've just addressed that. And if you do that, you're living under chronic stress.

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And that chronic stress can kill you, just like you and I've been discussing.

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So number one, I want you to go score your brain. We have a validated neuropsychology

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test at the beginning of the book. It is for free on my Instagram, Twitter, X, I think it's called now, on my website.

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And we'll put the link in your show notes. And you get a brain score.

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So if you score above a 30, it's telling me you have neuroinflammation in your

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brain in a particular pattern that's due to chronic stress.

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Stress right and if the score is above

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a 40 you're now affecting other

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functions of your brain and your body and

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this inflammation can lead to something i call a busy brain which is very common

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in high achieving men and women okay so what are some of the kind of telltale

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signs that have a busy brain yeah okay yes all right let's get started you wake

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up and you're like oh robert and Dr.

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Romi are so chipper. I can't do that unless I have a really big,

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large coffee or an energy drink, or I can't get through my day without stimulants

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like Adderall or Vyvanse, these neurostimulant drugs, right?

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And you take them, but what happens? You're anxious all day long.

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There's like messenger channels going off, email, multiple screens.

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You know you need to focus on this one task and you're anxious about it and you can't get it done.

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And the to-do list is multiplying faster than your productivity.

17:08

And you fooled yourself to think you just need another time management technique.

17:11

No, you don't. So you're anxious all day. You can't focus. And you're like,

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oh, I remember the podcast. I'm going to go stand on self-care tonight. But you go home and you're like,

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I can't turn it off, that anxiety, that ruminating worrying,

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unless I have a glass of wine or three.

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And if you don't drink alcohol, maybe the doctor gave you a sleeping pill to take the edge off.

17:32

And then you try to put your head down on the pillow and you're wired and you're

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tired and you have a marathon in your brain of thoughts, racing,

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anxious thoughts, useless thoughts going around and around and around.

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That's the busy brain, a state of hyperactivity due to chronic neuroinflammation

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that gives you adult onset ADHD, ruminating anxiety and insomnia,

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difficulty falling asleep or waking up in the middle of the night. Yeah.

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No, it's funny because I'm sure people listening who have OCD may be thinking,

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well, I'm not that busy in terms of work. Well, of course, they might be.

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I'm sure lots of people listening are actually, you know, but definitely almost everybody with OCD is.

18:15

Will struggle with what you're talking about through their rumination about

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the particular obsessions that they have.

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So there's clearly going to be a lot of crossover there. There can be a crossover,

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but I want to be really clear. And you and I talked about it before we started the interview.

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This is not about OCD personality traits or actual diagnosis of obsessive compulsive disorder.

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This is about your population that has anxiety.

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There are eight subtypes of anxiety. And yes, OCD really coexists with anxiety.

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You've discussed that over and over so eloquently in your podcast.

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I'm actually talking about people who live under chronic stress,

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who have anxiety coupled with inability to focus, ADHD, and that's leading to

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insomnia, difficulty falling and staying asleep.

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So you're stuck on stimulants all day long, and then you're jacked up and revved

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up at night that you need a sedative like alcohol or sleeping Yeah,

19:12

okay. That's what I'm talking about.

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So, you know, could people have busy birth and OCD? Yes. Are they two coexisting things?

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Maybe, but this isn't about healing your OCD, this podcast.

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I think I want to be clear about where my research is. Absolutely.

19:27

I think that's a good idea to express that. Yeah. Okay.

19:31

And so these type of people who are struggling in the modern world,

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unfortunately, we are living in a world that does perpetuate all of these things

19:42

that you're talking about now. Know increasingly we are kind of

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told if we want to be successful you know we need

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to be we need to be working all hours we need to

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be on our screens all the time perhaps you have to

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work on the weekend as well even when you have quality time with your kids maybe

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you've got your phone out and you're responding to emails and you know and you're

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scrolling tiktok let's be real your brain needs a break and you're and you're

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scrolling tiktok and 92 minutes go by and you're You're like,

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did I just spend all that time on TikTok? Yeah.

20:15

Yeah. Okay. And so the result of all of this is chronic brain inflammation.

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It's kind of. Yeah. Chronic neuroinflammation in the brain in a specific area

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known as the hypothalamus, the SCN nucleus, which governs our circadian rhythm.

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So then not only is your sleep wake cycle affected, but so is your ability to

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think and focus and all 50 hormones in your brain and your body.

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So now this is where all the other symptoms can come from in your body as well.

20:46

And so I break that down in chapter 5, 6, 7. In simple terms, you can't focus.

20:52

No matter what you do, you can't lose that last 5 to 10 pounds.

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And you're doing, quote, everything right, eating clean, exercising,

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taking all the supplements, and you still have a busy brain.

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And so we break down how to get down to the root cause of it.

21:11

And that's the brain shift protocol. Okay.

21:15

So how does this kind of, on a day-to-day basis, you mentioned,

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obviously, it's going to affect people's sleep.

21:22

It's going to impact the quality of their life.

21:27

So, I mean, it's going to impact them in all sorts of ways.

21:30

I mean, you even said, no, if left untreated, it can have very severe consequences

21:36

in terms of, you know, like... Chronic disease, death, heart attack,

21:41

autoimmune disease, cancer. Yes. Yeah. So this is pretty awful. And people, what can people do then?

21:49

What do you really focus on? What do I focus on?

21:53

Let's get, so the Brain Shift Protocol, SHIFT is an acronym for the five key

21:58

areas and the root cause I want to assess in you, whoever is listening.

22:03

And by the way, remember, the root cause is not going to be similar in everyone,

22:07

but we broke it down into five categories that we do with behavior change and we check your labs.

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So S in the brain shift protocol stands for sleep or your circadian rhythm.

22:17

So in week two of the protocol, we get you going on a tight sleep protocol based

22:23

on cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia.

22:25

And we give you a couple key supplements that will help restore the circadian rhythm.

22:30

Then H is looking for your hormones and the shift protocol and in the word shift brain shift.

22:36

I specifically, if you were fine and your hormones were great,

22:41

but all of a sudden you're like, yeah, these symptoms, or I've been under chronic

22:43

stress the last three, six months, six years.

22:46

I want to check a full thyroid panel, especially in women that in women,

22:53

one in eight women are walking around with a subclinical thyroid disease.

22:58

And the only symptoms that are showing are, are mood-related,

23:03

anxiety, or difficulty focusing ADHD.

23:07

And they're written off as a tired mother, an anxious woman, a hormonal woman.

23:14

And there's actually maybe autoimmune thyroid disease or subclinical thyroid disease going on.

23:18

The other hormones we check, obviously, are estrogen, progesterone in women,

23:22

and testosterone in men. So very key to look at hormone panels. All of that can be off when you're in chronic burnout.

23:29

I is looking for markers of inflammation. And so we screen for especially the

23:34

key one here is vitamin D as in dog three, vitamin D three levels.

23:39

Now, even if you're in beautiful Barcelona or Florida, like we're both sitting

23:43

here interviewing and we're exposed to stunning sunshine, we can have low vitamin

23:48

D levels when we're under chronic stress. So this is an example. And in chapter 16, we have a lab slip to tear out to take to the doctor.

23:56

And I break down all the science and the behaviors to help these things.

24:00

So there's hope. But I want to give you the science to treat it.

24:03

So you're not just on some tacky diet that's limiting your calories and nothing

24:09

tasteful to eat, but you're actually doing something about it.

24:13

Okay. So diet and nutrition can be an important part to help with that.

24:19

Maybe multivitamins and things like that.

24:22

Well, yeah. So let's break it down. F in the brain shift protocol is for food

24:26

and how we fuel ourselves. But here's the best news for your listener.

24:30

I'm not here to promote a diet. That's actually, especially if you have OCD

24:35

and anxiety, very dangerous, is to give someone a strict menu or a strict list

24:40

of foods and say, you can eat this or you can't eat that.

24:43

It actually promotes more neuroinflammation and trauma in the brain and fuels

24:47

anxiety or OCD, calorie counting, macro counting, all of that, right?

24:52

But the other thing is, Robert, I told you in the beginning I'm a chief wellness

24:56

officer, and we have people from all over the world that work in the company.

25:00

I want people to eat their favorite comfort foods, whatever country you come

25:05

from, whatever culture, whatever religion, whatever family memories you have.

25:09

Have we just break down in a simple manner

25:12

for your brain so that you don't feel more anxious or

25:14

lose focus one thing is is if you're going to

25:17

eat a carbohydrate that spikes your blood sugar like white sugar white flour

25:22

white potatoes white bread then no caffeine for an hour and if you're going

25:27

to have caffeine and tea or coffee then no bread sugar rice no carbohydrates

25:33

for one hour That's the simple rule.

25:35

We want to keep your insulin and blood sugar level steady in your brain.

25:39

And caffeine and sugar together will mess that up. So that's rule number one, we say.

25:44

Rule number two is adding healthy fats to every meal, which in,

25:48

you know, the Spanish food is just naturally there in the cooking.

25:53

So like omega-3s. Omega-3, you know, all the olive oils, all the fishes,

25:58

all the seafood, all the nuts. I mean, it's abundant in the olives.

26:03

But my audience, and I know a lot of your podcast listeners are in the US and

26:09

in other parts of the world where there's a lot of processed foods,

26:12

that's not naturally the case. Yeah. Okay. So the large portion of chocolate cake and the double espresso that

26:19

I had before this podcast, probably not a good combination.

26:22

It actually can make all eight subtypes of anxiety worse, Believe it or not,

26:28

it's that the caffeine will give you a boost of energy, but the sugar spikes

26:33

it and causes you to crash and that can make anxiety or focus worse.

26:38

Oh, absolutely. No, it's not generally my, my normal approach,

26:42

but I needed a bit of a boost this afternoon. That's okay. And listen, once in a while, it's okay. That's why in the protocol,

26:49

we say once to twice a week, treat yourself to comfort food.

26:52

Hopefully share it with someone you love, but, you know, try to get some comfort

26:56

food. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, completely agree.

26:59

Yeah. I think, I think sometimes when we just restrict things too much and we

27:04

say, you know, Maybe you're already working really hard to balance your life

27:09

a bit better, to manage your anxiety or to do whatever you're trying to do.

27:13

And that's taking up a lot of effort, a lot of determination, a lot of commitment.

27:17

Then on top of that, you're suddenly restricting all your food and you're not

27:21

allowed to have these things that you really enjoy. That's not good for your mental health.

27:26

Yeah. Willpower is something that can be used up fairly quickly in that example.

27:32

Example and it's more than willpower it's actually

27:35

you're raising your stress hormone levels oh yeah

27:38

yeah and then having the associated mental health symptoms so it's it's not

27:42

even you lack willpower i lack willpower it's actually that we're we're putting

27:48

negative emotions in our brain and then the example i use in the book one of

27:53

my favorite foods is lambriani that my maternal grandmother Oh,

27:57

I love it. It's fantastic. Right? I love that you know lamb briyani, right?

28:01

And it has such a joyful memory of a family food and attached to a woman who I loved dearly.

28:08

And what you don't want to do is erase that memory of joy of that food and the

28:16

core memory and replace it with anxiety or OCD or something Now,

28:23

I'm not saying eat lamb riani every single day,

28:25

but enjoy it, right? And schedule your comfort food. Tell me about one of your favorite comfort foods

28:31

in Barcelona other than chocolate cake, Robert. Yeah.

28:35

Well, yeah, I mean, there's classic things out here like patatas bravas,

28:38

for example, which is just potatoes with a spicy sauce or paella or these kinds

28:44

of things that are absolutely delicious.

28:46

Absolutely. And so like schedule eating that favorite food and do that.

28:52

And that actually fuels the joy. And so when you just give people loose guidelines

28:56

around foods that spike sugar and caffeine or adding healthy fats to every meal,

29:03

people were going through our eight-week protocol,

29:05

dropping a pant size or dress size, reducing not only belly bloating, but brain bloating.

29:11

And then all of a sudden that stress eating stops.

29:13

So the thought of having chocolate cake in the middle of the day will actually

29:16

make you feel a little nauseated. It yeah I really liked what you were saying

29:21

as well about this idea of you know we're trying

29:23

to do what we can to create a kind

29:26

of platform in order for you to become you

29:30

know more of the best version of yourself and so

29:33

often we're just doing little things that unfortunately take away from that

29:37

just by removing those in and of itself you're giving yourself a much better

29:42

chance to be able to manage that stress manage that anxiety as you were talking

29:47

about as well perhaps that that's reducing brain inflammation a little bit as

29:50

well in the process, improving your. Your, how you feel generally about yourself. And so, you know,

29:58

Great. Fantastic. Okay. And so what else is really important then in the shift component?

30:07

Is that all of the components you've mentioned? So we talked about sleep.

30:11

H is hormones. I is markers of inflammation, your labs. F is food.

30:15

And then T is the role of technology. And so we actually give people techniques in the workplace to reduce screen

30:22

time and 30 to 60 minutes before bedtime.

30:26

And that alone will start healing the busy brain.

30:29

Unfortunately, what happens though, is people do revenge scrolling.

30:33

You're trying to fall asleep and shut down a busy brain. And you're like,

30:35

let me just check one more work email and I'll feel better because I'm in control.

30:39

It's like that OCD anxiety thing. I'll have relief if I knock out one more email or let me numb my mind and just

30:47

scroll Instagram or TikTok. And that's actually making it worse.

30:51

Yeah. How much of this do you think is about the feeling of wanting something familiar.

30:57

So you'd rather stay busy and stressed because that's something that is familiar to you.

31:03

To not be busy and stressed is something strange.

31:07

It feels uncomfortable to not be experiencing that.

31:11

Robert, that is such a powerful question. I've done over like 85 interviews now on podcasts for my book and no one has come up with that.

31:19

You You are dropping some wisdom, my friend. Oh, thank you.

31:22

You know, you're right. In today's global world, maybe we don't have that permission

31:28

to just pause and do nothing and not feel guilty about it.

31:32

And especially the ability to do nothing when you know I have a to-do list at

31:36

home or in my job to take care of, but to say, I'm going to take a break and do nothing.

31:41

Because what happens initially is when we have a busy brain, we're all prone.

31:45

There is an engine going on in our brain and we don't want to face it.

31:48

And instead, you know, doing these steps will slowly over eight weeks,

31:52

calm down that busy brain. So when you do say.

31:55

It's okay for me to not be busy and do nothing. There isn't those negativity in your brain.

32:00

And in the book you read, my negativity in my busy brain is the voices of my

32:04

aunties and the voice of judgment. Yeah, absolutely. There's a big component with that, with anxiety,

32:11

OCD as well, I think, where there's the role of the inner critic in this kind

32:16

of self-judgment or even judging other people. It's all related to it. Yes.

32:21

Judging self, judging others. And when we brain shift and we come to that place

32:26

of hope, then it's replaced by radical self-compassion and compassion for others.

32:31

And that like, no matter what somebody is coming at you with, we have hope.

32:37

And then as a high-functioning professional, I know, Robert,

32:40

if someone comes to me with a problem, like you told me there was,

32:44

God forbid, a problem with the plumbing in your home, I'm not going to ruminate about it all day.

32:48

Hey, I'll offer you hope, I'll offer you prayer, but I'll be like,

32:52

my friend, I'm sitting here in Florida. I don't know that I can help you. Maybe we should end this podcast interview and you take care of it.

32:57

Not to put a negative intention, but when we have a busy brain,

33:01

everybody's problems, even strangers on the news or social media become like

33:06

our emergency in our brain to fix.

33:09

Instead, I say, what is the talent and the time and the treasure that I have

33:14

and where am I going to direct that energy. Mine is focused on brain and mental health in the workplace.

33:20

So yes, I empathize and sympathize with all the problems of climate change or

33:25

the wars in the world, but that isn't where my time, talent,

33:29

and treasure is best used. Okay. Okay. For people who are listening, who do have high pressure jobs,

33:37

they work very hard, they're struggling to do all sorts of things,

33:40

they're juggling maybe a busy family life as well, And maybe they're also struggling with OCD.

33:47

It's a lot. It's a lot to manage. It's a lot to have on your on your on your plate. Yes.

33:52

And people, I think sometimes they worry about the concept of self-compassion.

33:58

If I start to be more self-compassionate, does that mean that I'm going to start,

34:03

you know, allowing my work to kind of to not get done properly?

34:07

Am I going to start making mistakes?

34:10

Am I not going to be the same employee that I used to be? And is that going

34:14

to lead to problems for me further down the line?

34:18

What would you say to people who have questions about that when it comes to

34:22

self-compassion? And yet, because we're addicted to having negative thoughts

34:26

or behaviors in our brain in order to get something done.

34:30

So you've had this inner critic, a voice of self-judgment or judgment from others

34:36

to push you to get your work done. Let's say as an example, when we train, when we heal a busy brain and it's replaced

34:43

with self-compassion, do not confuse mindfulness and kindness and compassion.

34:51

With inability to be successful. Those two things actually go hand in hand.

34:56

I am around some of the most successful people in the world who deal with their

35:01

mental health challenges and challenges like everything you just described.

35:05

And the key is radical self-compassion and care and care for others.

35:10

It doesn't mean that I'm just going to go with the flow and sit on my sofa and

35:14

do nothing each and every day. But when I function from that place of self-compassion, my brain is now organized.

35:20

I have boundaries for my brain and my body.

35:23

I know what needs to get done. I know what's urgent.

35:26

I know what's important. I know what's a daily task. I know what I can delegate.

35:30

And all of a sudden that productivity and that health and wellness just flows,

35:35

because I'm not losing time or my treasure or my talent giving into that negative inner critic.

35:41

And we've all been there, myself included, right? So it's just get things done

35:45

in a place of self-compassion. Self-compassion does not mean you are lazy, you are inefficient, you are not a success.

35:53

Self-compassion is giving your brain and your body and your spirit boundaries.

35:59

Fantastic. It's a really nice way to put it there.

36:03

How important is the spiritual element when it comes to this?

36:07

It seems to be something that is often ignored in the modern world a lot of the

36:12

time in the instagram kind of world that we live in and maybe

36:15

in in workplace wellness as well for sure

36:19

corporate life yeah how does that influence this

36:22

i mean it's everything right i i always think about

36:25

especially my world of treating the whole person is

36:28

treat the brain body and spirit i feel

36:32

like you're right sometimes that spiritual side of me has to be closeted when

36:38

i'm in corporate global corporations but i think just my being will emulate

36:45

that and people get it so whether you're going to use the word soul or spirit

36:49

or you hear me use the word hope, yeah well yeah i mean hope is a very much spiritual right and and it is and

36:57

and you use that word and then you realize like oh okay like there is but to

37:03

the people that that'll live in just the spiritual world.

37:05

So part of my healing was spending so much time with yogis and meditators and

37:10

Reiki healers and that it's all balanced.

37:14

You can't just say, I'm gonna do my spiritual exercises, my law of attraction

37:18

manifestation exercises great and not take care of my physical brain and body.

37:22

They all go hand in hand and it can be overwhelming.

37:28

For me, and this is my bias as a brain doctor and having gone through it,

37:32

I really believe when I healed my busy brain that my physical health got immediately

37:37

better, as did my sense of hope, my anchor to spirituality.

37:42

Otherwise, I was just through the motions trying to meditate or pray because

37:46

my busy brain was running a marathon. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah. Tell me about it.

37:54

I'd love your perspective. Well, I think the more kind of spiritual perspective

37:59

that you can take on these kinds of challenges, generally speaking,

38:04

the better off you can be because it's really about trying to create a narrative and a story,

38:10

a kind of hero's quest almost about the challenge that you

38:14

have yeah you know rather than seeing

38:17

it as this immovable object this unfair thing

38:20

or challenge that's happened to you if you

38:23

can try to see it as okay this has happened maybe for a reason and is there

38:29

what what what learning can i truly take from this how can i take this experience

38:35

and use it for something that's going to to really help me move forward in my

38:39

life in a new way and I love that. I love that.

38:42

And that also happens kind of as you're, I say, at the top of the mountain coming down.

38:47

When you're climbing up that mountain and it feels like a battle about going

38:51

up the mountain to fight your OCD or anxiety or busy brain, be good to yourself.

38:56

Like, you don't need to have the spiritual answer in that moment.

38:59

Because in that moment, when I was sick and having to go under surgery and not

39:05

knowing how long I would be away from work and all those worries,

39:08

that was me climbing up the mountain. I'll be honest with somebody said, well, God is testing you and you're going

39:15

to come out the other side. You don't want to hear it. What's going on?

39:17

I would have been like, you're no longer my friend, Robert. Like, you know, yeah.

39:22

Yeah. And I think that's very true. And this is why when I talk about these kinds of things,

39:29

it tries to be very sensitive about it, because for exactly those reasons you've

39:34

just pointed out, it can be quite frustrating to hear that when you're in the

39:38

throes of a real mental health or physical health challenge.

39:42

And someone says to you hey this is

39:44

your you know this is your challenge but at the

39:47

same time if you are able to

39:51

try to see it from a slightly different perspective even if that's not really

39:56

taking much of a spiritual perspective but try your best even in the difficult

40:01

situations to see okay this is really horrible i'm really not happy i'm really struggling.

40:09

But can I see this even from a slightly different angle?

40:12

Is there something about it? No. And it can be. And maybe having someone help you go through that.

40:18

It's kind of hard to do it. But I think that's where the role of a therapist

40:21

really helps or a spiritual counselor or advisor or teacher.

40:26

Someone on the outside to reflect that back to you and hold that's trained to hold a safe container.

40:32

So whether you want to face it in that moment or not, they're there for you.

40:36

You know, I think that would be key is to have that support.

40:39

We don't have to figure this out alone listening to this podcast.

40:43

Yeah. I did not figure this out alone. You read the journey of the teachers

40:49

and the healers and my therapist and everybody that was a part of this journey with me.

40:53

We don't do this life alone. We don't do this life alone, friend. Yeah.

40:58

Great. That's really great. I'd be interested in your perspective on this.

41:02

One of the approaches that I talk about on the podcast is acceptance commitment

41:06

therapy, which is very much an idea where you, instead of getting caught in

41:11

this kind of anxiety trap, which is trying to fix all of your emotional problems through thinking,

41:18

through trying to problem solve all of the problems.

41:21

And instead, with ACT, you're encouraged to focus on your values,

41:26

your goals, and to mindfully redirect your attention back to the present moment

41:32

to keep your focus elsewhere.

41:34

You're not trying to say no to your thoughts, but you're doing your best to

41:38

redirect your attention. But there's some kind of crossover because I think sometimes with that approach,

41:45

if it's done in the right way, it can be very, very helpful because it's kind of mindful.

41:50

But I think sometimes people get caught up in just thinking,

41:54

well, it's about distraction then. I just need to distract myself from my emotional pains and difficulties.

42:03

And does that happen sometimes as well?

42:06

I'm sure it does, but I'd love to hear your opinion on it.

42:09

For people who are, you know, hard workers or chronically stressed,

42:14

are they actually just distracting themselves all the time from their emotional

42:19

pain and discomfort through their work?

42:22

Or is it, what would you think about that?

42:25

I don't like the word distracting. What if we said it's your intention and you're healing?

42:29

It doesn't mean when you're healing, you're going to go from 100 to zero on the scale.

42:33

You may go from 100 to 90 one day. You may go from 90 to zero the other day

42:39

and come back up to 100 again. There is no judgment, right?

42:42

That's what mindfulness teaches us. So...

42:45

If that modality of healing is helping you, then please go forward.

42:49

But really, my job as a doctor is to say, you don't have to do this alone.

42:54

There are spiritual healers. There are therapists.

42:58

There are doctors. There are trained mental health coaches.

43:01

There are trained people to help hold this container for you.

43:04

I think sometimes that can help. Now, when you develop a ritual for yourself that you are able to recognize the

43:12

symptom, the ruminating anxiety, let's say, and you know, you have a ritual that you can use and you can take

43:18

a pause and then you can do a self-assessment that takes practice and training.

43:22

And again, most people don't figure that out alone.

43:25

Does that help? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's an interesting perspective on it.

43:32

So it's a beautiful perspective and thank you for teaching me.

43:35

I appreciate it. And my listeners are going to be intrigued as well.

43:38

That's great. That's great. Okay. So just a couple more questions to finish off with.

43:44

If people are interested in the Busy Brain Cure and they want to kind of find

43:50

out more about it and about the work that you do, how can they do that?

43:54

Thank you so much for asking. You can take the Busy Brain Test for free.

43:58

We'll put a link in the show notes here with Robert's podcast.

44:01

And please go rate his podcast as well. Give it a five star and share this episode

44:06

with someone you know who may have a busy brain. And also, So I'm Dr. Romi, R-O-M-I-E.

44:11

My website, Instagram, Twitter, known as X now.

44:15

Take the Busy Brain Test for free. And the Busy Brain Cure book,

44:20

The 8-Week Plan to Find Focus, Tame Anxiety and Sleep Again,

44:22

is available globally. A national and global bestseller.

44:25

So absolutely, anywhere you find books, you can buy it, including Amazon,

44:29

Kindle, Barnes & Noble, Audible, etc.

44:32

Fantastic. And one more question. If you only have one piece of advice for people

44:38

who are struggling with a busy brain.

44:41

What is that piece of advice, apart from buy your book and read it?

44:47

I want you to know any moment that you are suffering.

44:52

I wish someone had said this to me when hope departed my soul in the surgeon's office.

44:58

Your brain is not broken. Your mind is not a mess.

45:01

And hope didn't depart your soul. Please hear Robert and Dr.

45:05

Romi in this moment. You are not alone.

45:08

That's a beautiful way to end. And thank you very much, Dr. Romi.

45:12

It's been absolutely fantastic talking to you. Thank you so much.

45:17

Just a quick reminder that if you want to get a free session,

45:21

all you need to do to get that is to head over to my website,

45:24

www.robertjamescoaching.com.

45:27

And there you can leave me a message and we can arrange the free session.

45:33

And now just a quick reminder of my disclaimer.

45:36

Any information that you view on my website,

45:40

Instagram page, Facebook group or anywhere else online or any information that

45:46

you listen to on the podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended

45:51

to be a substitute for actual medical or mental health advice from a doctor,

45:57

psychologist or any other medical or mental health professional.

45:59

Music.