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0:35

Mrs. Russell, what

0:38

are you doing here? Oh, did we need your permission?

0:41

I only meant I wasn't aware you knew the

0:43

Duke.

0:43

I hear work on the Metropolitan

0:46

has been suspended for a while. Well,

0:48

that's been sorted out. It was a slight

0:50

hitch, nothing more.

0:51

So it won't upset your plan to open on the same

0:53

night as the Academy. Good.

0:55

I'm looking forward to it. Me too. I

0:58

enjoy competition.

1:02

Welcome back to the official Gilded Age podcast.

1:05

I'm Alicia Malone from Turner Classic Movies

1:07

joined once again by my co-host, Mr. Tom

1:10

Myers. Hello,

1:12

everyone. Yes, I'm Tom Myers

1:14

from the Bowery Boys podcast. And this

1:16

is your official companion to the HBO

1:19

original series, The Gilded Age. And

1:21

today, Alicia, we're going to

1:23

be breaking down everything that happened

1:25

in episode four of season two.

1:29

That's right. Last week, we saw Bertha confront George. She's

1:32

feeling betrayed

1:32

after finding out about Turner's seduction

1:35

attempts from season one. And

1:37

we met Oscar Wilde

1:38

at the Union Square Theatre. Boy,

1:41

that was

1:41

a flop. Yeah. And

1:44

this week, we'll be picking up the town

1:46

topics and other Gilded Age newspapers

1:49

to get up to speed on Peggy's

1:51

trip to Alabama and Bertha's attempts

1:54

at a little Duke stealing and

1:56

to read the marriage announcement for a certain wedding.

1:59

Oh my goodness, I'm so happy about

2:02

that. We'll also be talking to Douglas

2:04

Perver, the visual effects wizard,

2:06

and Laurie Pitkis who finds all of the incredible

2:09

locations for

2:10

the show. I kind of like to call them invisible

2:12

effects. If you see what we're

2:14

doing on a show like this, we've kind of failed

2:17

in a way. So we want to make sure that

2:19

the visuals are as seamless as possible to keep

2:22

the viewer within the story. So

2:25

let's get this party started. This is

2:27

season two, episode four, His

2:29

Great The Dukes, written by Julian

2:32

Fellowes, and directed by Debra

2:34

King-Hann.

2:46

And we begin with a grand

2:48

tour of the new Metropolitan

2:50

Opera House, led by our favorite

2:52

tour guide, Bertha Russell. Her

2:55

VIP group sort of steps through

2:57

a backstage door, a switch

2:59

is flipped, and suddenly light

3:02

shines out on the auditorium of the

3:04

new house. Her construction is underway.

3:07

Or should we say, where construction is supposed

3:10

to be underway. Yeah, that's right. Bertha

3:12

is doing a great job as a tour guide. She's

3:15

showing off the new opera house and assuring

3:17

everyone that the workers simply stopped

3:20

for the patron's

3:20

visit. Right, yeah. I

3:24

love that Gilbert, the manager of the opera,

3:27

says, the first

3:29

tier, where most of you have taken

3:31

boxes. Yes,

3:34

the Metropolitan Opera House, when it opened,

3:36

was famous for its stacked boxes

3:39

and balconies. They even nicknamed it the

3:42

Golden Horseshoe, because the interior

3:44

had been designed to be beautiful,

3:47

but also purely to show off

3:49

all of those boxes and obviously all

3:51

of those box holders. Yeah, I imagine

3:54

all of New York's top

3:55

society wanted boxes in that first

3:57

tier.

3:57

Yes, in that first one. a

4:00

Tribune article from 1883 that

4:02

I found refers to that lowest row

4:04

of boxes as the parterre.

4:08

This was home to at least

4:10

five different Vanderbilt boxes, including

4:13

Alva's, and also home to

4:15

the Whitney box and the Golette, the famous

4:18

Henry Morgan, who we spoke

4:20

about before. Even Jay Gould had a box

4:22

here.

4:23

So they were in the lowest

4:25

row and then other wealthy families

4:27

were above them.

4:28

Exactly, yes. Above the parterre

4:30

was the first tier, where

4:33

JP Morgan and William Reinlander

4:35

and others had boxes, and above that

4:37

was a second tier of boxes. And

4:39

then that was topped by the balcony

4:42

and then by the gallery or the family

4:44

circle above it. But that

4:46

whole lineup really then produced quite

4:49

an impressive visual.

4:51

But Tom, in this story, the Met has

4:53

run out of money and is behind schedule

4:55

in leasing

4:56

these boxes.

4:57

Well, in real life, I don't know about any drama

5:00

renting out boxes, but newspapers

5:02

were covering the story of construction

5:05

costs, running really amuck.

5:08

The original story that announced the Opera

5:10

House project that ran in the Tribune

5:13

in 1880 stated that, quote, the

5:15

opera house will be constructed as economically

5:18

as possible, the cost not

5:20

to exceed $600,000 in any event. And that's about $18 million

5:22

if we do our imprecise

5:29

inflation calculation today. Well,

5:32

Alicia,

5:35

that

5:36

quickly jumped to just over a million,

5:38

then to 1.25 million. And then by 1882, the Brooklyn

5:40

Union was reporting that, quote,

5:43

the

5:46

increased cost of labor and materials

5:48

has carried the estimate up to $1,525,000. And

5:54

the millionaire stockholders stand aghast

5:58

at this watering of their stock. translating

6:01

to about 46 million

6:03

dollars today.

6:04

That is insane,

6:06

an insane amount of money and you

6:09

know that must have caused some drama in

6:11

those boxes.

6:12

I think it did yeah but regardless

6:15

they forged ahead and those millionaires

6:18

in the boxes ended up coughing

6:20

up the cash you know to finish the

6:22

Opera House. But let's get back

6:24

to Bertha's tour of

6:26

the incomplete house. One

6:29

potential subscriber who was on

6:31

the tour of course was Mrs.

6:33

Winterton who really did seem

6:36

stunned by the beauty of all of those

6:39

rows of boxes. I

6:41

thought it was kind of funny to see her speechless even

6:43

for like a microsecond.

6:45

Although she didn't want to show

6:47

Bertha her reaction or the

6:49

reporter from the Daily

6:50

Graphic. Did you notice how quickly

6:53

Mrs. Winterton said no to being sketched?

6:55

Yes. It's like she didn't want to

6:57

even appear with Bertha in the press.

7:00

Or she's trying to stay under the

7:02

radar so that her story doesn't get out.

7:04

Oh that makes more

7:06

sense. Okay

7:07

well I think that we spoke

7:10

about the Daily Graphic newspaper last season

7:12

because I remember this was a

7:14

New York City newspaper with a lot of illustrations.

7:17

The artists had to work fast.

7:19

I like how the sketch artist's hand made

7:21

a little disappointed gesture when Bertha

7:24

walked away. I

7:24

never thought like a flick of the hand

7:27

could say oh man but

7:29

he's dead you know leaving behind

7:31

a sort of half finished portrait. But

7:34

what a portrait. I mean that was no carnival caricature.

7:37

That was like a fine pencil

7:39

portrait. I thought it really captured Bertha.

7:41

It did. And by the way the Daily

7:44

Graphic was the first US newspaper

7:46

to print illustrations every day.

7:49

Lots and lots of engravings you know

7:51

to bring their stories to life. So

7:53

it was very notable although

7:55

it was not a huge financial success

7:58

and it was out of business by the end of the day. end of the 1880s. Shame.

8:02

And the daily graphic journalists also asked Bertha

8:04

about a blind item printed in a

8:06

Newport newspaper, which seemed

8:08

to refer to the burgeoning relationship

8:10

between Larry and Susan Blaine. And then

8:13

Aurora confirms with Bertha that she's

8:16

heard these rumors too. Yeah, although Aurora

8:18

was very tactful, right? She, she

8:20

even had this kind of like pleasant, undisturbed

8:23

smile on her face, you know, as the journalist was

8:25

asking Bertha about it. And then

8:27

kind of asked her in a hushed

8:29

voice, basically the same question as

8:32

they kind of walked down stage. Yeah,

8:34

I like Aurora. Yeah. So

8:36

Tom, we know that this type of gossip

8:38

like Larry and Susan's relationship

8:40

would have been reported. But you know, how

8:43

did they appear? Was it in tabloids

8:45

or in the society pages of established

8:48

newspapers? Were blind

8:50

items a regular occurrence? Well, it depends

8:52

on

8:52

what was being reported. And in today's

8:55

episode, we see a lot of things actually

8:57

reported. There's a lot of newspapers

9:00

in today's episode. Did you notice that?

9:02

I mean, try counting them the next time you

9:04

need a little Gilded Age drinking

9:06

game. I mean, in this one episode,

9:08

we see newspapers being read by almost

9:11

all the characters. We've got Marion reading the paper,

9:13

the Fains are reading at breakfast, Agnes

9:16

Turner, of course, Mrs. Winterton. Mrs. Astor

9:19

is reading a newspaper with a monocle.

9:22

Yeah,

9:22

Bertha is

9:24

reading one as well, I think.

9:25

Yes. And George is lampooned

9:28

in a political cartoon. And obviously

9:30

Peggy and Fortune are like producing a paper.

9:32

Yeah, lots of press happening. Yes.

9:35

And society was used to being in

9:37

the press. They were the

9:39

celebrities of the day. And really, they

9:42

were the celebrities of the 1930s. And they had

9:44

been since the 1830s, when James Gordon Bennett started

9:50

publishing The New York Herald. As authors, Mike Wallace

9:52

and Edwin Burroughs write

9:55

in their wonderful book, Gotham, quote, converting gossip into news and

9:57

private lives Bennett

10:00

reported on the doings at Broadway

10:02

mansions and the social season at Saratoga

10:05

Springs, often with a whiff

10:07

of mockery.

10:09

So by the 1880s then, was this

10:11

just all mainstream? Yeah,

10:13

and

10:13

really, the press helped make

10:15

Mrs. Astor and Alva Vanderbilt

10:18

and all the others. As

10:20

you read through the papers from that time,

10:23

you will quickly find yourself reading about,

10:25

you know, who was heading to Europe aboard which

10:27

steamship and who had just returned

10:29

and who was, you know, who attended the

10:31

Academy of Music last night and who was

10:34

planning a fundraiser Delmonico's. This

10:37

is what people were reading.

10:38

Yeah, celebrities, they're just

10:41

like us.

10:41

Just like us. But

10:44

no, the really juicy

10:46

society stories, you know, the divorces

10:48

and the affairs and bankruptcies, those

10:51

started to get published with town

10:54

topics, which began publication

10:56

in 1885.

10:58

And a piece of gossip that would definitely

11:00

make the society pages was the

11:02

former job of Mrs. Winterton. You

11:05

know, this is already causing quite a scandal

11:07

with Mrs. Astor telling Mr. Winterton

11:10

that he needs to give up his box at the Academy

11:12

because there is, as Mrs. Astor

11:15

says, too great a contrast

11:17

in her journey through life in

11:19

comparison to the other boxholders.

11:20

There's some first class

11:23

dissing going on over there.

11:24

I was

11:26

really struck by how Mrs. Astor lured

11:28

Mr. Winterton into her home for

11:31

tea. And she was like all smiles

11:34

as she delivered this very kind

11:36

of awkward news, right? She basically

11:39

trashed his wife's reputation

11:42

while smiling and while nodding, you know?

11:44

Yeah.

11:44

Well, I love me a good veiled

11:46

insult. And Mrs. Astor is

11:49

the queen of polite yet

11:51

savage shade. And later,

11:53

after Mr. Winterton

11:55

attempts to like delicately share

11:57

the news with his wife, she is underemployed.

12:00

Understandably upset it even completely

12:02

throws off her plans for a morning fitting And

12:05

instead of telling her husband the truth

12:07

she explains that she simply worked as Bertha's

12:10

Companion

12:11

so it was on a different level to

12:13

a lady's maid which had been her

12:16

actual

12:16

job totally different Yeah, if

12:18

Turner had been Bertha's Companion

12:21

the two of them would have been spending their evenings together

12:24

dining and doing cross stitch

12:26

in the parlor that didn't happen

12:28

Well,

12:30

I gotta say I felt a little bit. Sorry for mrs.

12:32

Winterton there and also it doesn't

12:35

seem wise for mrs Astor to turn

12:37

mr. Winterton Against the Academy

12:39

of music because obviously he's gonna take his

12:42

wealth and reputation to the Met Yeah,

12:45

this is mrs.

12:45

Astor being kind of nasty. My favorite

12:47

line was when mr. Winterton said but

12:50

she enjoys the Academy and mrs Astor

12:52

says

12:53

while smiling I'm sure

12:55

she thinks she does Yeah It

12:59

was brutal But you know

13:01

there's happier news over at the van Rines

13:04

with another opportunity for Ada

13:06

to interact with Reverend forte

13:09

She hosts the tea in aid of a missionary

13:11

cause and Tom My

13:14

heart skipped a beat when

13:16

Ada was lamenting about her lack

13:18

of travel and Reverend forte Responded

13:21

with there's so much that

13:23

you can still do I know

13:24

That cute little

13:27

finger touch you need in there Ada

13:29

was in total shock

13:30

Yeah, and it feels especially touching

13:33

that it's Ada getting that advice because

13:35

you know unmarried women at her age We're

13:38

often told that their lives were over Meanwhile

13:42

Marian had more tea

13:44

to drink with her mother to order

13:46

tea with Francis Where

13:48

she's mistaken as Francis's

13:50

mother that was so uncomfortable. I was

13:53

like Chill out mrs. Glennie.

13:56

I mean She had clearly

13:58

had too much tea interrupting Marianne

14:00

constantly. You know, Marianne could hardly get a word

14:03

in edgeways.

14:03

And something tells me that Francis

14:06

would not have corrected that mistake if she had heard

14:08

it, because when Daschle arrives, she says

14:10

they make a neat little family. I think

14:12

she's being a bit of a matchmaker

14:14

here.

14:15

But on her way out the door, Marianne

14:18

learns that her school is joining a charity

14:20

cause, and she's asked to teach

14:22

some classes, teaching basic

14:25

skills like reading and writing and arithmetic

14:28

to poor students. Yes,

14:29

we're told this is all part of Jane

14:31

Addams' work in social reform.

14:34

So what can you tell us about Jane Addams?

14:36

I was reading that she was the first American

14:38

woman to win the Nobel Prize.

14:41

Yes, much later in 1931,

14:44

Jane Addams was from Chicago,

14:47

where she co-founded a settlement house

14:49

called Whole House in the 1880s. It

14:52

was a center for social reform,

14:55

bringing the city's wealthiest women

14:57

together to help provide opportunities

15:00

for the city's growing immigrant

15:02

population. And Whole House would

15:04

be very important in the settlement

15:06

house movement, which also, of course,

15:09

existed in New York, where its first

15:11

settlement house, the New York Neighborhood Guild,

15:14

was founded in 1886. And

15:17

it is today called University

15:19

Settlement.

15:19

Well, that's interesting. And I'm just glad

15:21

that Marianne is getting involved. And

15:24

you know, well, we may have to wait a little bit longer

15:26

to see if there's any romance between Marianne

15:29

and Dashal. There is definitely romance

15:31

brewing between Ada and Luke Forte,

15:33

because they go on a walk in Central Park

15:36

surrounded by those old timey

15:38

bikes with the big front wheels. Watch

15:42

out. And Luke Forte

15:44

gifts Ada a bunch of peonies. Now

15:46

she hoped to keep this gift a secret

15:49

from Agnes, but was almost discovered when

15:51

a bee became attracted to the

15:53

flowers on the dinner table.

15:54

Fannister,

15:56

remove the flowers and the bee that inhabits them.

16:00

Where did they come from? They're

16:07

mine.

16:10

They were a present from Cousin Durschel.

16:11

From the parents

16:13

of a pupil.

16:16

Bannister, we're done with this.

16:23

What on earth is that noise?

16:26

I think it may be

16:28

my clock alarm. Telling you what?

16:30

That it's time to clear the plates? Go and turn it

16:32

off at once.

16:35

I'll fetch the dessert. Better not.

16:38

It might attract more bees.

16:43

Jack obviously still has some work to

16:45

do on that alarm clock. It

16:47

is the funniest line in the episode, if you ask

16:49

me.

16:49

And the bee sound

16:51

was very realistic. I even

16:53

looked around for a bee

16:55

while I was watching it. Both times.

16:58

Both times I saw this episode. So kudos to the sound

17:00

effects. That's so funny. And

17:02

don't you think it's sweet how Marion was trying

17:05

her best to cover for Ada?

17:07

Not effective, very sweet. And

17:09

I love how they're bonding. Which then

17:11

made it seem so unlikely that

17:14

Marion, as Agnes says, quote,

17:17

thinks you're engaged in a full-blown flirtation.

17:20

I was like, oh

17:21

no, Agnes did not

17:23

just say that. I think she was trying

17:25

to throw Marion under the bus just to get

17:27

the real story. So sneaky.

17:30

By the way, Lushen, side note,

17:32

while that bee was buzzing about, Agnes

17:35

said, I thought we might try

17:37

that lamb receipt from the Ladies Home

17:39

Journal. And

17:41

this is the second time this

17:42

season that I remember hearing the word receipt

17:45

used for recipe. Did you notice that?

17:48

Yeah, I noticed that too. I was wondering

17:50

what that

17:50

was. Yeah, well, it

17:53

obviously sent me down a rabbit hole on

17:55

Merriam-Webster.com where they

17:57

published a whole history of

17:59

bees. quote, when a recipe was

18:01

a receipt, these two words derived

18:03

from the same Latin word reciproci. So

18:07

interesting aside, but we digress. But

18:09

wait, Tom, we have to talk about

18:11

the next date that Ada and

18:13

Reverend Forte have

18:15

in church. That was

18:17

so sweet. The whole scene was

18:19

beautiful, you know, the choir singing, turning

18:22

with the camera just so and

18:25

Ada and the Reverend are giggling, you know, kind

18:27

of like school kids in the pews. I

18:29

have never seen Ada

18:32

happier, Alicia, and I've known her

18:34

for two seasons. But

18:36

then as if Ada couldn't get

18:38

any happier, the choir closes

18:40

with an amen, and Reverend

18:42

Forte gets down on a knee and

18:45

proposes and

18:47

she is stunned. And I screamed,

18:49

I mean, internally, at least, I'm

18:51

just so happy for Ada,

18:54

you know, it's about time that she had some happiness

18:57

all to herself. Although Tom, it was

18:59

pretty heartbreaking when the scene cut

19:01

from Ada's joy directly to

19:04

Agnes eating all alone.

19:05

Yeah, that was sad. Agnes

19:08

is clearly wondering how she

19:10

fits into all of this.

19:12

Now, it doesn't seem quick that Forte

19:14

proposed marriage. Have they have they even

19:17

kissed?

19:17

I mean, I think that the

19:19

first kiss, at least the first kiss that we

19:22

see between them is right then, right

19:24

after the proposal in St. Thomas Church, which I

19:26

guess is appropriate. Right.

19:28

It's a very chaste romance.

19:30

And in, you know, stark contrast

19:33

to that is the steamy

19:35

relationship between Larry and Mrs.

19:37

Blaine. As we mentioned, it's already causing

19:39

scandal with rumors and blind items

19:42

in papers. And while Larry isn't

19:44

worried, Bertha definitely is.

19:46

She invites Susan Blaine to see her and

19:49

gets right to her point.

19:51

Did you see the article

19:53

about you and Larry? How can you

19:55

be so sure it gave no names? Don't think

19:57

I care what they write about you. I

20:00

do not want them to connect you with my son. Larry

20:02

is working for me. You've had your fun.

20:05

Isn't there time to end it? What are you talking about? What

20:07

is it that you want from him? You can't

20:09

give him an heir. In twenty

20:12

years when he is in his prime, you'll be walking

20:14

with a stick. Even if he feels too

20:16

guilty to leave, part of him will be waiting for you to die.

20:19

You must remember what that was like when you were married to

20:21

your husband. How dare you say such things.

20:24

I dare because they're true. I'm leaving.

20:29

I just don't know how to feel about this whole scene.

20:32

I mean, that was really low, right?

20:35

And yet, didn't Mrs. Blaine

20:37

make those same kind of jabs about her own

20:39

late husband?

20:40

She did, but when

20:42

Bertha says, part of him

20:45

will be waiting for you to die,

20:47

that seemed especially harsh. Very

20:49

harsh. Very ruthless. And

20:52

effective. I mean, I love

20:54

how the scene starts with a crash

20:56

of thunder, right? This is going to be a

20:59

stormy encounter. It's

21:01

right up there with Mrs. Astor, you know, summoning

21:04

Mr. Winterton. This episode

21:06

has some strong women inviting people

21:09

over to tea to smack them down

21:11

with a smile. That's right. Beware

21:13

of an invitation

21:14

for tea. Just say no.

21:16

And this conversation really

21:19

speaks to the idea that we've been talking

21:21

about of a double standard, that it's

21:23

more scandalous for a younger man

21:26

to be with an older woman than

21:28

for a younger woman to be with an older

21:30

man as Susan was with her late

21:32

husband. Yeah, and

21:33

I think certainly some of this has to do

21:36

with inheritance, you know, and the ability

21:38

to produce an heir. Larry

21:40

doesn't seem to be thinking about that, but

21:42

Bertha certainly is. It's also effective

21:45

because when Larry shows up

21:47

to take Mrs. Blaine to Mrs. Fish's dinner,

21:50

she's not going. It's over.

21:52

Yeah, Bertha has definitely won

21:54

this round.

21:55

By the way, Larry's first clue

21:57

that something is amiss is when he looks at

21:59

her. her in the doorway and says, you

22:02

haven't changed. Which

22:05

I thought, I mean, I hadn't noticed that I thought

22:07

she was like decked out in an amazing dress.

22:11

To me, it was almost like he was saying, you know,

22:13

like, you're wearing that, you

22:15

know, but obviously, it would have

22:17

been very apparent that she wasn't wearing evening

22:20

wear.

22:20

Well, I had the same reaction. I thought, couldn't

22:22

she wear that?

22:23

It's beautiful. It's

22:25

gorgeous.

22:26

Anyway, let's

22:28

switch topics suddenly and talk

22:30

about Peggy who has traveled

22:33

with T. Thomas Fortune to Tuskegee,

22:35

Alabama. They meet up with Booker

22:37

T. Washington and then later they dine

22:40

with Booker and his wife Fanny Washington.

22:42

And she was a real

22:44

figure as she says in the show, she

22:47

was a teacher.

22:48

Yes, she was. Yeah, Fanny had grown up in

22:50

Malden, West Virginia, where Booker

22:52

had also moved when he was nine. We

22:54

talked about that last week. When

22:57

Booker was later teaching in the town,

22:59

he helped Fanny get into the Hampton

23:02

Institute. They would marry

23:04

in 1882, right around the same time

23:06

that he accepted his position at Tuskegee.

23:10

And yes, Tuskegee also hired

23:12

Fanny who helped develop the

23:14

school's curriculum, especially for women.

23:17

And here in the show, we hear that she

23:19

has introduced a class for women

23:21

in dressmaking in order to give them

23:24

real skills.

23:25

A remarkable woman and Peggy is

23:27

certainly impressed by what she has seen of

23:30

the school, the teachers and

23:32

the students. Plus, she's very

23:34

flattered when she hears that the girls look

23:36

up to her. I mean, yes, Peggy

23:39

is really inspiring. She's forging

23:41

her own path as a journalist. There

23:44

is tension though after dinner because

23:46

Booker T. Washington and T. Thomas Fortune

23:48

have different ideas of how to deal with the

23:51

type of racial injustice they face, whether

23:53

to fight back for equality or

23:56

to make peace just to get things

23:58

done. Take a listen.

23:59

You were a slave and so was I. How

24:02

do you make peace with people who bought and sold

24:04

us? Who branded us like cattle, whipped

24:07

us on Saturday, then sat in church on Sunday

24:09

without a morsel of shame?

24:10

Some may keep silent, Mr. Fortune,

24:12

because they tried your way and they got killed

24:15

for their trouble. I

24:17

don't mean to scare you, Miss Scott. You only tell him

24:19

truth.

24:21

That was tense. Two different

24:24

prominent men who had both made

24:26

so much progress already, arguing

24:29

about their very different methods in

24:31

two very different parts of the country. Booker

24:34

had some notable lines too, like,

24:37

quote, we're making big progress

24:39

down here. You don't get that by picking

24:41

fights.

24:42

And you completely understand both

24:44

of their arguments. They're in such a

24:47

tough place being black men in a

24:49

white world. And as Peggy points

24:51

out, they are each saying basically

24:53

the same thing. It's just that their methods

24:56

are different.

24:56

Yeah. And also, did you notice

24:59

in the scene how the camera

25:01

was handheld, kind of shaky? It

25:04

made me at least feel kind of uneasy about everything

25:06

I was watching.

25:07

Yeah. I mean, I've noticed how the camera in

25:09

the Gilded Age often mirrors the mood

25:12

of the characters. When it gets shaky

25:14

like this, it kind of reflects the

25:16

chaos happening in the scene. And, you

25:18

know, like you said, it makes the viewer

25:21

feel like even subconsciously that

25:23

we are uneasy or unsettled

25:26

too. Also, one thing that

25:28

I really want to know, you know, Peggy says

25:31

she's excited to give some much needed press

25:33

to the Tuskegee school. But did

25:36

Booker T. Washington's efforts get national

25:38

press at this time? They did.

25:40

Yeah. I did some searching in

25:42

old papers and found

25:45

quite a few articles from the time, articles

25:47

about Booker coming to New York

25:49

to raise funds for Tuskegee. That

25:52

was in the New York Times in 1883. There was

25:55

a great overview of all the things

25:57

happening down at Tuskegee in the New

25:59

York in 1886 and that

26:01

was on the fifth anniversary of

26:04

its founding. And in that article

26:06

the writer describes the transformation

26:09

that he had found five years after

26:11

Booker T. Washington took charge. He

26:13

wrote, quote, what do I find

26:15

here? A farm of 500 acres,

26:18

two large buildings, the bricks were

26:21

made in the brickyards on the grounds cleared

26:23

by student labor. And

26:25

he goes on for many, many paragraphs describing

26:28

just a truly bustling and impressive

26:31

place.

26:31

That sounds exactly like we see in the

26:33

show, you know, a bustling,

26:36

busy, well-kept school.

26:38

Exactly, yeah.

26:40

Well, okay, let's go back to New York

26:42

because George Russell encounters

26:44

a mob protesting in front of his office

26:46

building and he's also angry that there's

26:49

a cartoon lampooning him in a newspaper.

26:51

Now I've seen a few of these types

26:54

of political cartoons in books

26:56

about the Gilded Age where robber

26:58

barons were made fun of.

27:00

Exactly, yes, and it reminded me of

27:02

the political cartoons that were drawn

27:04

by Thomas Nast for Harper's Weekly.

27:07

Nast was very powerful

27:09

actually. He helped bring down Boss

27:11

Tweed through his cartoons.

27:14

And here a cartoonist in a Pittsburgh

27:16

paper is depicting George

27:19

as squeezing the laborer

27:21

right by his low wages and foul

27:24

conditions. Well,

27:26

at least things are a little

27:28

bit better for George at home. Bertha

27:30

has forgiven him and he has gotten

27:32

them close to the Duke of Buckingham. They

27:34

attended dinner with his Grace.

27:37

By the way, was there really a Duke of

27:39

Buckingham at this time?

27:41

There was, yes indeed, his Grace,

27:44

the third Duke of Buckingham and Shandos,

27:47

a British politician and administrator

27:50

who among other things had served

27:52

as governor of Madras. But

27:55

unlike in our story, Alicia, this

27:57

Duke in reality was 60 years old. in 1883

28:01

and she was also a widower. So

28:04

no, no Bertha could

28:06

hardly say that he was not much

28:08

older than Larry

28:09

and Gladys. Yeah not quite the same.

28:12

Also George has moved out the

28:14

air quotes accounting errors that had

28:16

a stopped work on the net and

28:18

Bertha takes it upon herself to rearrange

28:21

the seating so that she is next to the

28:23

duke at dinner. That

28:24

was some quick thinking, yeah,

28:27

or just entirely calculated. Who

28:29

knows? Whatever, it was bold. Yeah

28:31

but I love George's response. Mrs.

28:34

Russell is exactly where she

28:36

should

28:36

be. Bertha is

28:39

always where she needs to be. And

28:41

Mrs. Winterton was also upset about this

28:43

last-minute seating change but at

28:46

least she got to have a reunion with her

28:48

old friend Oscar. I

28:50

can't be sitting here. It

28:52

seems you are Mrs. Winterton.

28:54

It's so terrible to say it. Good

28:58

gracious, it's you.

29:00

Good evening Mr. Van Ruy.

29:03

I hope we meet again but I never thought

29:05

it would be like this. Life is full of surprises.

29:08

I'm sorry if you're disappointed to find yourself next to

29:10

me.

29:11

It's not that exactly but I was told

29:13

my place.

29:17

Never mind, we're here now.

29:19

We are and you have

29:21

till the next course to describe your attention.

29:25

That was perfect. I mean the

29:27

two connivers reunited at dinner

29:29

and don't forget that

29:32

their friendship is what inadvertently got

29:34

Turner sacked in the first place.

29:36

Yeah and I'm sure Oscar would support

29:39

the calculated way Turner ascended

29:41

seeing how he has plans of his own. They're

29:43

kind of like made for each other. I also

29:47

loved how Mrs. Winterton's

29:50

voice, her you know haughty upper

29:52

crust accent completely

29:54

vanishes the second that she realizes

29:56

it's Oscar. She's like, oh

29:58

it's you. Like a flat

30:01

Turner voice.

30:02

Yeah, I mean he knows the real

30:04

Turner he does So

30:07

in the end, mr. Winterton is sitting

30:09

next to Lily Lang tree Who was actually

30:11

an English stage actress just as more

30:14

beaten describes and apparently it is true

30:16

that one of her admirers Was the Prince

30:18

of Wales? Yeah. Well

30:20

the Prince of Wales admired many He

30:22

was famous, you know for his romantic

30:25

dalliances during the long

30:27

reign of his mother Queen Victoria And

30:30

yes, this did include a three-year

30:32

affair with the socialite

30:35

turned model turned actress Lily

30:37

Lang tree whom he had met in

30:41

1877 and he met her coincidentally by sitting

30:44

next to her at a dinner party And

30:47

by the way, she really did come to New

30:49

York City to perform in 1882 No,

30:51

interesting and Tom, you know all

30:54

of this brings us to a great

30:56

ending as the Duke accepts Bursar's

30:59

offer to say with the Russell's during his Newport

31:01

trip instead of the Winters and Mrs.

31:04

Winterton finds out by reading town

31:06

topics

31:07

that old scandal ride Which

31:10

brings us to our favorite moment in

31:12

the entire episode. She

31:14

reads aloud Incredulously

31:17

that the Duke is to be the guest

31:20

of mr. And mrs. George Russell

31:22

in Newport Who will be giving a dinner

31:25

in his honor? To which her dear

31:27

husband replies perhaps

31:29

will be invited I'm

31:33

starting to think

31:34

that mr. Winterton doesn't really know

31:36

his wife very well

31:37

Definitely not the true Turner

31:40

and you know what we have to give Kelly current

31:42

some small applause The

31:45

way that she as mrs. Winterton

31:48

reacts to this news. I Found

31:51

him and he's mine and

31:54

that's which stolen

31:57

him from me. It's just the

31:59

best While she is

32:01

ascending a staircase, no. Hard

32:03

to do. Alright Tom, let's

32:06

take a break and when we come back, we'll

32:08

be talking to two of the key crew

32:10

members on

32:11

the show. Yes, Lori Pitkiss and

32:13

Douglas Berver will be here to tell

32:15

us about the locations and the visual

32:18

effects on the show. So don't go anywhere.

32:20

You're listening to the official Gilded

32:22

Age podcast.

32:32

Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to

32:34

follow me into the auditor hall.

32:40

The work may not be done, but it

32:43

is nearly done. And the first

32:45

tier where most of you have taken boxes

32:48

needs only its finishing touches. It's

32:54

now to give you the grandest opera house in the world. The

32:57

music of the world!

33:05

Wow, Alicia, look at that. It

33:07

is all coming together. We are finally

33:10

seeing the opera house under

33:12

construction.

33:13

Yeah, and it was quite a beautiful moment.

33:15

I'm confused though whether that was a real

33:18

location or what. Like what were

33:20

we looking at? What were we seeing? But

33:22

we do have guests coming up who will be able to tell

33:24

us all about that. You're listening to the official

33:26

Gilded Age podcast. I'm Alicia Malone

33:28

with Tom Myers. And Tom, tell us

33:30

about our guests because they know all about what's

33:33

real and not real in the Gilded

33:35

Age.

33:36

Yes, Douglas Berver and Lori

33:38

Pitkiss are joining us. Douglas Berver

33:40

is a visual effects supervisor who has

33:42

added his magic to films and

33:45

many popular

33:45

television shows. From

33:48

Marvelous Mrs. Maisel to the Gilded Age and Boardwalk

33:50

Empire, for which he earned an Emmy nomination

33:53

for outstanding special visual effects. And

33:55

Lori Pitkiss is the location manager

33:57

for the Gilded Age, responsible for forming the Gilded Age.

34:00

and securing all of the real locations

34:02

that you see on the show. She's also worked

34:05

on films like Ocean's 8 and

34:07

The Post for director Steven Spielberg.

34:10

Douglas Pova and Laurie Pitkiss, thank

34:12

you so much for

34:13

joining us. Thanks for having us.

34:15

Yeah, it's great to be here. Yeah,

34:17

we have so much that we want to talk

34:19

about. You both have such fascinating

34:21

jobs. Douglas, to start

34:23

with, how would you describe your role

34:26

on the Gilded Age to somebody who's never heard of

34:28

a VFX supervisor before?

34:30

Sure, well, you know, there's tons

34:32

of things that you see on screen

34:34

that aren't there when

34:36

we practically shoot them, or they can't be

34:39

there. So we need to add them

34:41

to the scene. My

34:43

role comes in to help the director and

34:45

the DP strategize or plan

34:48

how best to shoot that scene for us to

34:50

be able to add that stuff in later, whether it's a

34:53

period-correct building or a train or something

34:56

that we weren't able to shoot practically. It's

34:59

my role to kind of

35:00

guide them in a way that would

35:03

set them up for success for it to look the

35:05

best it possibly can. I kind of like to call

35:07

them invisible effects. If you

35:10

see what we're doing on a show like this, we've kind

35:12

of failed in a way. So we

35:14

want to make sure that the visuals

35:17

are as seamless as possible to keep the viewer

35:19

within the story, so that it's

35:21

the story that's really taking the lead there and

35:24

the visuals are just kind of adding that

35:26

feeling or adding that reality to

35:28

it.

35:29

Are you also subtracting, taking

35:31

things out?

35:32

Absolutely. I mean, you know, this show takes place

35:34

in the 1880s, so our

35:36

modern world doesn't really provide

35:38

the all of the great,

35:41

you know, it has a lot of modern buildings

35:43

that we need to erase and take out.

35:46

Laurie's done a wonderful job finding us really

35:48

great locations that help us in

35:50

the immediate zone, like where the camera and

35:52

our actors are, and then it's usually my role

35:55

to then take the backgrounds or the middle

35:57

ground from there on to replace

35:59

it or change it in a way that would fit

36:02

the scene properly.

36:03

Yeah, Laurie, how has your job as

36:05

a location manager changed over the years

36:08

now that you can include visual

36:10

effects?

36:11

Having worked in this business prior

36:14

to visual effects actually being a big

36:16

part of what we do, it's

36:19

the time you spend standing next to someone

36:21

like Douglas and going on Scouts and

36:23

approaching places and saying,

36:26

there's a terrific building, but it

36:28

obviously hasn't been updated. There are

36:30

window air conditioning units in every window,

36:33

for instance. So we look

36:35

around and

36:36

it's not that we would dismiss a location

36:37

based on that, but when we're

36:39

looking around at our locations that have

36:43

the cleanest, the least amount of work

36:45

for us to do in order to bring

36:48

them to the screen. So you

36:50

two do work

36:51

together, do you? And how do

36:53

your jobs intersect? They intersect quite a bit, I think.

36:58

I'm constantly asking Laurie to find locations for me

37:02

to either photograph to help with matte paintings or

37:04

create distant additions to set extensions

37:08

and stuff like that. For instance, in our St. Mary's location

37:13

where Marion's teaching,

37:16

this was a standalone building in the middle of a field

37:18

that we needed to make feel like

37:20

it was in the middle of Manhattan. So we get together

37:22

and we talk about what neighborhood

37:27

it would need to feel like. And

37:29

then from there, Laurie has her team

37:31

find proper buildings that would fit in that neighborhood.

37:34

So then I can go and photograph

37:36

them extensively and create a CG model of

37:38

it or a matte painting of it to

37:41

then add to that scene to create the extension.

37:44

Well, I'm sorry, I'm gonna stop you. Where's this

37:46

field? Where's this field that had St. Mary's in

37:49

it? This

37:51

was kind of a happy accident at

37:53

the beginning of... When we looked

37:55

at season two, it was clear that finding

37:57

churches for our Easter... recession

38:00

was going to be a key element to anchoring

38:03

us. We always think, could we possibly

38:05

ever shoot in Manhattan? And

38:08

every season we have a conversation with the producers

38:10

and the director and say, what's the smallest

38:13

we could possibly make

38:13

ourselves where we could go, for instance,

38:15

to the real St. Thomas Church on 53rd and

38:18

5th? Could we actually

38:20

go there? What could we do? How many people could

38:22

we bring? Would we be able to provide

38:24

Douglas with the tableau

38:26

that would help

38:29

tell our story? And that conversation

38:31

is usually cut short once we mention horses

38:34

and carriages. When you start talking about

38:36

that kind of logistics and you think about buses

38:38

and cars and pedestrians

38:41

and how would you ever control an

38:42

intersection of Manhattan, you realize

38:45

that it's not tenable. And so

38:47

we started looking at, as you know, Brooklyn is

38:49

the borough of churches. We started looking at

38:51

the hundreds of churches that are in Brooklyn, many

38:54

of which are in disrepair and

38:56

also present the same issues of

38:58

traffic. Bob Shaw and I were talking

39:00

and we were both aware of the Church

39:03

of the Incarnation in Garden City, Long

39:05

Island, which

39:07

is a fantastic

39:08

church. I don't know, I want to say that

39:10

it's like probably a 10 acre piece of property, 10

39:13

to 15 acres. That's pretty

39:15

big, yeah. All the trees around. It stands alone.

39:18

First we looked at that and thought, could we do

39:21

our Easter procession here? And after

39:23

a lot of budget conversations

39:26

and logistics conversations, we mixed

39:28

that. But it turns out the rectory

39:31

at the property, which sits about 50

39:34

yards across from it, is called Sea

39:36

House. And it's also of the period. And

39:39

it's a beautiful, you know, it's a

39:41

beautiful brick home that was the rectory

39:43

for years. And it happened to be undergoing renovations

39:47

when we scouted it, which turned out to

39:49

be completely opportune for all of us. We

39:53

kind of tripped over a gold mine and

39:56

found this standalone

39:59

building.

39:59

which Douglas then brought in, you know,

40:02

worked with to bring in background.

40:04

And we were able to bring horse and carriages

40:07

there. We laid some kind of subsurface.

40:10

We laid some kind of surface on the road, pulled

40:14

back some tree branches, and

40:16

we were able to create St. Mary's

40:18

there.

40:18

So how do you decide then when to

40:21

use a real location or when to shoot on a

40:23

soundstage or I guess when to kind

40:25

of combine them?

40:26

I think we would shoot on a real location as

40:28

much as possible. You

40:31

know, after two seasons, I half-jokingly

40:34

say that we've scouted every

40:36

building from the early 1800s to 1900 in the

40:38

Tri-State region, Newport,

40:44

Troy, Albany.

40:45

We've seen a lot. We've

40:50

found these places up in Troy and Albany that are

40:52

very friendly to us to be there, but

40:55

sometimes it just doesn't work out. We have to switch

40:57

gears. The same thing happened with the

41:00

Tuskegee Railroad that was something

41:02

train station when they get down to Alabama.

41:05

That was another set piece where it's basically

41:08

just the train station

41:10

building that was constructed on

41:12

our back lot, surrounded by green screen.

41:15

And we had to put in the train. We had to put in the environment

41:17

and all that kind of stuff. And it was, the

41:20

decision to do that comes down to, do

41:22

we have a location that fits within

41:25

our schedule that is close to where we're

41:27

shooting other things? You know, those are all

41:29

part of the conversations. Scheduling is a

41:31

lot of it. You know, when you have a small scene that

41:33

might be a half a page, it's not

41:35

a full day's worth of work. We have to find a way

41:38

to marry it with something else, which

41:40

is where the back lot comes in handy. But

41:42

you just mentioned the train station. I

41:45

thought I saw somebody stepping out of a train. I

41:47

mean, what

41:48

are you, a wizard? How

41:50

are you doing? How is somebody stepping out of

41:52

a green screen? That's exactly

41:54

what they're doing. They're stepping out of a green screen. We,

41:56

you know, I work, another person I work very close

41:59

with is Bob Schauer. our production designer and

42:01

his team. And we are constantly

42:04

talking of ways of how best to integrate

42:07

his work to our work and

42:09

all that kind of stuff. So we come up with

42:11

clever ways to build green

42:13

staircases with green walls and green doors

42:16

and match them up to the size and

42:18

scale of what the train would

42:20

be or whatever it is. And we position

42:23

them in a way that makes sense for where the

42:25

train would be at the platform with the stairs and we just

42:27

have them kind of walking out of behind a green

42:29

screen, down some green stairs. And

42:32

then we just change that into the

42:34

train basically. We have a model of a train

42:36

that we've been building and texturing to

42:39

be period accurate. And then we use

42:41

those scale measurements to help

42:43

inform what we're gonna build practically on

42:45

the set.

42:46

It's so hard for me to get

42:48

my head around that. And it was interesting

42:51

to see the Russell's Summer Cottage

42:53

which we now know was the Elms

42:56

in Newport which is also used as the Russell's

42:58

kitchen. But what really threw us

43:00

off was the fact that you have the ocean

43:03

right there in front of the cottage which is not

43:05

actually what happened in real life.

43:08

So what went into the decision

43:10

to make this an ocean front property?

43:13

Yeah, I think that was a creative decision by

43:15

the director. And I think everybody wanted to sell

43:17

Newport in the fastest way, the easiest way

43:19

to sell Newport of course is the ocean, especially

43:22

with the use of a drone and having

43:24

the drama of seeing how

43:27

the homes on Bellevue Avenue sit

43:29

and how they're oriented so close to the cliff

43:32

walk and just the beauty of

43:34

what Rhode Island offers. I

43:36

think it helps

43:38

everybody understand why anybody would leave

43:40

New York City and head to Rhode

43:43

Island for the summer. And Douglas

43:44

was that tricky to

43:47

create that ocean front view? I

43:49

mean, it was a little tricky.

43:50

I think we again shoot it in a way

43:52

that makes us set up for success and we

43:54

had a great location just down the road at

43:56

the breakers which had an amazing view which

43:59

is what we shot to put into

44:02

there. So the way the elms works

44:04

in their backyard, they have a nice, there's a nice

44:06

dividing line of where the trees and shrubs

44:09

with the, I don't know what you would call that little structure

44:11

that's out there, that stone. There's a rotunda,

44:13

a marble rotunda. Okay, it

44:16

just provided such a great line

44:18

for us to cut from there and then just

44:20

add that ocean plate behind it. And then from

44:22

there we added some boats and some birds

44:24

and some, you know, life to give it, to

44:26

give it some animated feeling. The

44:29

trickier part of that scene was

44:31

that when we were there shooting in Newport,

44:34

the trees had not yet blossomed.

44:37

So they were planning, you know,

44:40

everybody thought they would, they just kind of bloomed

44:42

late. So we had to go back with

44:45

the drone unit later in the summer to shoot

44:47

tree plates as well to add leaves to all

44:49

of the trees on that property. Wow.

44:53

And amazing that you got to put the elms

44:55

in the breaker's position, giving

44:58

them the same view that the Vanderbilt had. It

45:00

was almost exactly the same view. Yeah,

45:02

the breakers had that same backyard,

45:04

like space. It felt very similar

45:07

to it. So yeah, it was a great match. I

45:09

want to pull back to the very beginning of the

45:11

episode because this episode begins

45:13

with a tour of the new Metropolitan

45:16

Opera, which, you know, is now the old

45:19

Metropolitan Opera and is obviously no

45:21

longer around. Laurie, can you

45:23

tell us a little bit about that location

45:27

and that scene? What was real? And

45:30

when they take this tour of the stage, where

45:32

was this shot? What was CGI? What

45:34

was actually there?

45:35

Yeah, I mean, well, I can, you

45:37

know, I feel compelled to provide a little bit of background

45:40

on that because,

45:41

you know,

45:42

you'd think that today you could go and look

45:44

at any theater near Broadway or look at all

45:46

the old movie houses. You know, we do

45:48

have existing old theaters.

45:50

All of us have been to performances in

45:52

beautiful old Lowe's movie houses, for instance.

45:55

And we started looking at all of them

45:57

and compared them to the Academy

45:59

of Music.

45:59

in Philadelphia, which

46:00

was built as an opera house, as an

46:02

Academy

46:03

of Music. And what becomes

46:06

immediately clear when you look and compare

46:08

all of these buildings,

46:09

you realize that opera houses are horseshoe

46:12

in character, they're horseshoe shaped, right, with boxes

46:14

all the way around. And movie houses

46:16

have mezzanines. So, you know,

46:19

you look and look and look, and the closest you could come

46:22

to something like the original

46:24

Met would be looking at Carnegie Hall, for instance,

46:26

which does have that shape. So,

46:28

we did end up going to look

46:31

at the Philadelphia Academy of Music, and it

46:33

takes nothing more than standing there. It's

46:35

just a beautiful building,

46:37

and it's still in operation, and it's well

46:40

kept in the Philadelphia Ballet operates

46:42

from there.

46:43

It's really pretty magical. And

46:45

everybody felt right away, we had to find a way

46:47

to shoot there.

46:48

But it's very cost prohibitive.

46:51

So, while we wanted to feature it,

46:53

we also wanted to minimize

46:55

the amount of time, and really isolate

46:58

the elements that we would need to shoot there in

47:00

person.

47:01

Basically, the stage is backed

47:03

up with a green screen. So, Bob

47:06

and his team built the scaffolding and the

47:08

footlights and stuff like that. And then they're

47:10

basically looking into a green screen. And what we

47:13

did in Philadelphia was we shot

47:15

a bunch of plates of the space, all

47:18

these different angles that we thought we might shoot

47:21

proper picture with. We went

47:23

with a LiDAR team, which is basically a

47:26

laser scanning unit, which you

47:29

set up in different positions around the theater.

47:32

And it scans the theater in a way that gives

47:34

us a 3D representation

47:37

of the whole space. And

47:39

while that team of people are doing

47:41

that scanning, they're also doing extensive

47:44

photography work, getting all of the textures

47:47

and materials that we would then map onto

47:49

that 3D geometry. We

47:51

would start with that full, beautiful

47:54

theater in Philly and pull

47:56

it all back to being in progress. So,

47:58

you see some gold medallions.

47:59

that are not quite gilded. You

48:02

see paint on the balcony that hasn't

48:04

been finished. You see drapery. You see

48:07

scaffolding that we've then added.

48:10

All of these elements were added to

48:12

this 3D representation

48:14

of the opera house, which was then placed into

48:17

that green screenshot. Wow.

48:19

And when it comes

48:21

to the actors, are you able to show them

48:23

renderings of what it may look like,

48:26

what they're reacting to?

48:28

Absolutely. Yeah, I think it was important, especially

48:30

for this opera house scene, that they knew what they

48:32

were going to be looking at. So we had some

48:35

look development images and some

48:37

just rough sketches or things that they

48:40

could look at so that they could really emote in

48:42

the proper way. It probably helps

48:43

that you have theater actors as well who are

48:45

used to reacting to

48:46

things that aren't there.

48:49

Douglas, when you were talking about things

48:52

that are up close, being built, constructed

48:54

and often things in the distance, visual

48:57

effects, it makes me think of the intersection

48:59

right of 61st and 5th, which

49:02

has been built on the back lot out in Long

49:04

Island. Could you talk about creating

49:06

the houses and the rest

49:09

of the street scene that we see beyond

49:11

what we know has been constructed? Sure.

49:14

This was our first big task on season one.

49:16

We spent many months researching

49:19

with Bob Shaw,

49:19

talking with him and his team. He

49:22

had already had a very good idea of what

49:25

those buildings are on 61st Street.

49:27

They've had either reference

49:30

in mind or they had specific buildings

49:32

within the city that we could then go photograph

49:34

as well. But basically his

49:36

team had almost not

49:39

a complete drawing of every building, but

49:41

close to it in a way that gives us

49:44

enough information for scale and

49:46

perspective and all of those kind of things to

49:48

build out that whole block. We only physically

49:51

built the first level, the first two level,

49:54

or maybe just doorways, but

49:56

every building had been planned on what it was

49:58

going to be before they built all of that.

49:59

those pieces. So I

50:02

could go to 73rd Street, you know,

50:05

on the Upper East Side to photograph the row

50:07

of brownstones that were, you know, in the middle

50:09

of the block. Or I could go to Gramercy

50:12

Park where one of the corner buildings

50:14

there was our corner

50:16

building for Madison Avenue and

50:18

61st Street. So all

50:21

those buildings did exist and

50:23

we were able to go capture all of the

50:25

material to make them look realistic.

50:28

So everything kind of felt as

50:30

a unit or part of where it should be.

50:33

It's so interesting. And

50:35

when we're talking to Bob Shaw, just

50:37

about Newport and the mansions

50:40

and using various rooms

50:42

from different mansions and piecing them together.

50:44

So Laurie, for you, when it comes to Newport,

50:47

have you just about run out of historic

50:49

locations? Is it hard to find new ones?

50:52

You know, what's wonderful about working in a small

50:55

town and the show having aired

50:57

is LinkedIn is

50:59

a great resource where every once in

51:01

a while I do

51:03

have people saying to me, I own a beautiful

51:06

house in Newport or, you know, somewhere

51:08

in the area and it hasn't

51:10

been fully renovated. Would you like to come take a

51:12

look at it? So anytime I am

51:14

in that area and have an excuse to call on

51:16

some of those people, I continue

51:18

to look at houses under the auspices of

51:20

scouting.

51:22

One of the homes that clearly works for you, of

51:24

course, is Kingscote, which we

51:26

did not see in season one. But now here we

51:28

are in season two. That's the Gothic Revival

51:30

Mansion that was designed by

51:32

Richard Upjohn and completed way back in 1841.

51:35

And in the show, it's home, of course, to

51:39

Mrs. Blaine, who finds it terribly

51:41

outdated. So I'm curious what

51:43

went into choosing Kingscote. Was

51:46

that it's also operated by the Newport

51:48

Preservation Society?

51:50

Yeah, it's one of the less visited

51:52

homes. We did look at a number of different

51:55

houses. There was a debate about

51:57

whether or not, for instance, to use

51:59

Isaac Bell House, which is a beautiful

52:03

shingle-style home that's

52:05

a little further up Bellevue

52:07

Avenue. And

52:09

our director was very enamored with the house.

52:11

And we all walked in and we were like, wow, it's

52:14

just as a shingle-style

52:16

home, it feels almost like a Frank Lloyd Wright

52:18

house. It feels more modern.

52:20

So there was a conversation, there was a discussion

52:23

about

52:24

just creatively what makes the most sense

52:27

in a world where Larry has to come

52:29

in

52:29

and update and renovate

52:32

a house.

52:33

Laurie, I know that we've touched on a lot of locations

52:35

so far in our conversation, but there were

52:38

a couple more that I had written down here, including

52:41

the Winterton's mansion. Where was

52:43

that?

52:43

That was at Reed Castle. So that's at

52:46

Manhattanville College in Westchester

52:48

County. We were fortunate to find a

52:50

mansion close to the city we didn't have to travel

52:53

to. And in fact, that mansion doubled.

52:55

There's some other locations that show

52:57

up in the other episodes that

52:59

we were able to shoot there. I believe McNeil's

53:02

office, I think we shot upstairs there.

53:04

I believe that's in the episode also. And

53:08

the dinner party for the Duke? That was

53:11

one of our old favorites, Hempstead House. That's where

53:13

George Russell's

53:13

office is also there. No

53:16

spoilers

53:16

there. But there's a large

53:19

atrium when you walk in and Bob

53:22

ingeniously figured out a way to put

53:24

panels up around a fountain that

53:26

figures prominently

53:28

in that area and was able to

53:30

make that the reception area and then cordon

53:33

off and

53:33

you know, divide it so that the area behind

53:35

it became the actual dukes dinner where

53:43

This has been truly

53:44

fascinating. Douglas Fervor and Laurie

53:46

Pickers, thank you so much for joining us

53:49

and sharing all of this insight. Thank

53:52

you, it was

53:52

fun. Yeah, thanks for the great questions. Really

53:54

appreciate the conversation.

54:05

Wow, Alicia, I am just, I'm

54:08

still getting over the fact that Marion Schoolhouse,

54:10

St. Mary's is actually located

54:13

in a Long Island field. It's just,

54:16

it's amazing to me that Laurie's team could

54:18

find it and that Douglas's team could

54:20

make it look like it's

54:21

in Manhattan and from every camera

54:23

angle. Yeah, you'd never be able to tell

54:25

by watching the show and it made me think

54:28

of how technology has made

54:30

a show like The Gilded Age possible because

54:33

can you imagine how expensive it would be

54:35

to build an entire backlot

54:38

where you see every angle of

54:40

all the buildings, you know, or

54:42

you'd have to shoot very tightly like they

54:44

did in the past and just not show the modern

54:46

architecture surrounding the

54:49

original locations. I mean, it's amazing what

54:51

they can do.

54:52

Yeah, they've really opened up The

54:55

Gilded Age to us visually. Well,

54:57

it's time to say goodbye, but we'll be

54:59

back next week. And don't forget

55:01

that you can see new episodes of the HBO

55:04

original series, The Gilded Age, Sundays

55:07

on Macs. And then make sure to

55:09

tune into our podcast, also

55:11

available on Macs or wherever you get your podcasts.

55:14

Bye.

55:28

This has been the official Gilded Age podcast

55:31

written, hosted and produced by

55:33

Alicia Malone and me, Tom Myers.

55:36

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55:38

Pemberton Fowler. Our editor

55:40

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55:41

special thanks to Michael Gluxett

55:44

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55:46

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56:18

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