0:05

Hello and welcome to the

0:07

Manchester United Podcast, this time on

0:10

tour. Moltchester United Podcast, am

0:12

I right? How long have you been thinking about that?

0:14

Do I? Moltchester United

0:16

Podcast. Yes, we are in Malta, we're

0:19

on our travels again. And

0:21

what a beautiful sight, we're currently

0:23

at the Marriott Hotel in St.

0:25

Julian's Bay, looking out at the

0:27

beautiful seaside. Mazy even looks like

0:29

he's caught a bit of a time today. Well,

0:32

you know, don't take me long. Don't

0:34

take me long. It's gingers. Absolutely

0:37

beautiful place. It is. And

0:40

we have had such a nice day. Mazy

0:42

when was the last time you were in Malta? December.

0:47

Okay. Prior

0:49

to that would be 2010 I think

0:52

it was. 2011 so yeah. And

0:54

you're a regular? Well

0:56

yeah, sort of. Sort of. Sam

0:59

and O, you were here quite recently as well. Yeah, came in November.

1:01

But I also came here a day ahead of you two. And

1:05

yes, there I played football with

1:07

the Maltese United supporters club, played Bayern

1:09

Munich. Mazy got a video of a goal

1:11

I scored. Do you want to watch it? You talking through it? Do you

1:13

want to know how good it is? No. Just

1:15

go on. You ready? Both

1:18

posts. I'm in a goal key. That was a bit of a

1:20

toe poke Sam. It wasn't, I put my foot through it. Should

1:24

have expected it. How was your

1:26

journey over Sam? Yeah, absolutely fine. We should say

1:28

I think that the reason we're here is not

1:30

just that everyone will know from the episode title to

1:32

speak to Mick Phelan, but because we're doing a live

1:34

episode with an audience which isn't something we've properly done

1:37

before which is quite exciting. No, pretty cool. Yeah. Looking

1:39

forward to it. We actually spent some

1:41

time today at the Maltese supporters club where

1:43

we're going back to tonight. That

1:46

place is incredible. Incredible.

1:49

Part bar, part museum. Yeah. The

1:52

memorabilia. The memorabilia they have. Wow.

1:56

All of the players that have been in

1:58

the Maltese supporters club. the contacts that

2:00

people have here with ex-players,

2:03

ex-managers. It was just

2:05

such a good day. They took us for a nice lunch as well. And

2:08

we should have had to, obviously we went with

2:10

them to plant trees for the 65th anniversary of

2:12

the club being formed. David May planted the... I

2:15

planted a tree. Named? The

2:17

David May tree. Yeah, the David May tree. The

2:20

David May tree. Well, I planted a tree. That's

2:22

a new pastime for me today. I've never planted

2:24

a tree before. I'll come back in. You've

2:26

never planted a tree? Have you ever planted a tree? Have you

2:28

ever planted a tree? I've planted loads of trees. I've planted loads

2:30

of trees. Don't you lie, huh? I've planted a tree about a

2:32

week ago. Because you look like a tree. That's it. You've never

2:34

got a garden. Yeah, I've never

2:37

had big trees in it. I mean,

2:39

I know that really wasn't a big

2:41

tree today, but in 15

2:43

years, that'd be like a big, harsh

2:45

chestnut tree. I don't know if I

2:48

have those here. Right, so

2:50

right now we are about to leave the hotel, head

2:52

to the supporters club in Malta and we're

2:55

going to have a live podcast as Sam

2:57

said with Maxime. So enjoy the rest. Okay,

3:06

Malta, can you hear me? Hello. Thank you very

3:08

much for coming. This is the first time at

3:11

MUTV we've done something like this. So thank you

3:13

for being part of this very

3:16

first live podcast that we're doing. Please

3:18

welcome to the stage, along with your

3:21

club president, our hosts for

3:23

the evening, Sam Homewood, Helen Evans and

3:25

David May. All

3:31

right, thank you all for coming. This

3:33

is fun. The three of us

3:35

have been doing this for a long time now and this

3:37

is the first time we've done anything with an audience. It's

3:39

really cool to do it and we really appreciate that you've

3:41

given up your evenings to come and listen to us talk.

3:44

Obviously, what we say is the least

3:46

relevant part of it and we're going to start with a man

3:48

you all know very well, Joseph Hodesko. Joseph,

3:51

thank you for having us. Thank you for helping organize

3:53

this. For the benefit of people that

3:55

are listening to this podcast, can you tell us

3:57

a bit about yourself and also this

3:59

incredible... incredible organization that is the

4:01

Multisupporters Club. Thank you

4:03

for being here. Thank you

4:06

for inviting me in this

4:08

great crew with you. I'm

4:11

Joseph Sadesco. I've been involved in this organization

4:13

for the past 27 years. In

4:17

the history of

4:19

this club, the person in

4:21

charge, they call him the President. It's a

4:23

bit of a bombastic name, but I've

4:25

been in that role for the past 14 years. I'm

4:29

privileged and honored to be chosen to

4:31

keep that role for such a

4:33

long time. How many supporters do you

4:35

have in the club? We

4:38

have about 1,000 paid members

4:41

every season. How many people fit

4:43

in here on a Saturday evening

4:45

or Sunday evening? We had

4:47

to count. We had to do a

4:50

count. The best count that we did

4:52

was the Carabao Final last February.

4:57

It was about 550 people

5:00

jumping here like sardines, no tables,

5:02

no chairs. Our

5:06

scare was that people had to go to

5:08

the toilet and it was not possible even

5:10

to go to the toilet. Plus,

5:13

we sent about another 500 back

5:15

home. It was unfortunate to see

5:17

it somewhere else. That was

5:19

quite a wonderful experience, but

5:22

with some tension. When

5:24

you have all those people here, we

5:26

had some great nights here. We had

5:28

the Trebels in 1999. That was amazing.

5:31

I would say games like Inter

5:33

and 1999 and Juventus in 1999, given the rivalry

5:35

between the English and the

5:37

Italian fans here, were

5:40

two of the games which we were like

5:44

incredible attendance this year.

5:46

How often do you get to all the trusted jobs?

5:50

I try to go at least twice or three

5:52

times a year. It depends. Nowadays,

5:55

not just for games, but we have

5:57

loads of friends there. We attend a

5:59

lot of of activities, dinners,

6:03

we are in very good contact with

6:05

many organisations like us, who

6:10

supports United. So our

6:12

network has grown a lot over the past years.

6:15

Amazing. I know you've been here before, but for

6:17

the benefit of people that are just listening, we're

6:20

in a venue that is purpose-built

6:22

and owned by the supporters' club, and it's

6:24

not bar, Park Museum. There are photos and

6:26

memorabilia up in cases and on the walls,

6:28

and there are pictures of you here from

6:31

years ago, but have you ever seen anything

6:33

like it? No. No, and

6:35

I've been in many, many supports

6:38

clubs all over the world. This

6:41

is unique. I came 10, 12

6:46

years ago, I think it was, something like

6:48

that, and I was taking

6:50

a gas fire then, but even now looking at

6:53

the progress and the size of it now, it's unbelievable.

6:57

It really is. It's

7:00

an absolute pleasure to be in.

7:03

You've done an unbelievable job, and some of

7:05

the memorabilia is mind-blowing.

7:07

It really is. You've done an

7:10

unbelievable job. Unbelievable. It's brilliant. Sam,

7:13

we need a photo in here. Can we

7:15

get a really small photo of us on the

7:17

wall somewhere? For

7:19

sure. It looks amazing. Framed and signed. Perfect.

7:27

Joseph, it is a very special weekend

7:29

for you. Can you tell people listening

7:31

or watching what this weekend means to

7:33

your supporters' club? Yes. Our supporters' club

7:35

was founded in 1959, one year after the

7:37

Munich crash. This is our 65th

7:41

anniversary. We have celebrated many anniversaries, the

7:43

58th, the 68th, the 48th, and 48th,

7:46

50th, 60th,

7:49

and we're doing the 65th

7:52

with some special activities

7:54

like this one. For us, it's a privilege

7:57

to have you here and doing this

7:59

podcast. We have a

8:01

program of events, we have had

8:04

fantastic exhibitions of

8:07

items unseen, some of them

8:09

unseen items from a

8:11

friend of ours from his collection, Joe

8:13

Glanfield. We've opened this exhibition on

8:17

the Saturday morning and then following

8:19

that we went to do like we

8:21

did for the 50th, a tree planting

8:23

event. We planted 65 trees in a

8:26

wonderful park in a great environment.

8:28

You were there with us, it was an experience. We

8:32

have the podcast, we have a dinner after

8:34

the podcast and tomorrow we're going to have

8:37

a mass, the remembrance mass, which we do every

8:39

year. We've been doing it for 65 years

8:43

to commemorate the Busby Beige, followed

8:45

by we're going to launch a

8:47

virtual tour of the supporters club

8:50

when we're also going to launch for the first

8:52

time a very hymn of the supporters club, something

8:55

quite unique. But obviously our

8:57

guest for the podcast is someone who's been on the

8:59

podcast before. Last time we had Mick Fillion on he

9:01

just talked about his career as a manager. We're hoping today

9:04

we get to talk to Mick about his time as a

9:06

player for Manchester United. What does

9:08

it mean for you and the supporters group and the people

9:10

of Malta generally when you get people like Mick come to

9:12

the island? When many United

9:14

people come to the island for us it's

9:16

hard work, right? No,

9:20

it's something which

9:23

since I was a kid and started to involve

9:26

myself in the supporters club, it's become like

9:28

a dream to be involved in organizing these

9:30

events. So when someone

9:32

like Mick Fillion is here and

9:35

Mays is here, you know, these people

9:38

are players that we've watched, supported all

9:40

our life. It's

9:43

obviously a big pleasure for us. It's an honor. Mick

9:46

gives me a reminder of my

9:48

first event, which I went as

9:50

a paid guest of the supporters

9:53

club in 1991. So

9:55

I remember me, 20 year old,

9:57

going on the small cut-off.

10:00

from Moorsa to our sister island, Gozo

10:02

to an event in Gozo, and

10:05

Mike was there, I still have the photos with

10:07

him, so he brings me back a lot of

10:09

memories. But apart from that, he's

10:11

been a very essential player in the beginning

10:13

of the Fergie era. Then

10:16

he had a great contribution

10:18

to give in one of

10:20

our best seasons, 2008, being

10:22

first team coach. Eventually

10:24

he was assistant manager, he's had

10:28

for sure a great mentor in

10:30

the Relicsberg season, he's had a

10:32

great contribution to give to our

10:35

football club, so I am very proud that

10:37

he will be sitting here on this podcast

10:39

over here in Moorsa. Well

10:41

in that case, would you like to introduce him for us? I

10:43

would like to introduce Mr. Mike

10:46

Phelan. Hi

10:56

Mike, how

11:00

are you? I'm good thanks. Good

11:03

to see you, when was the last time you were in Malta?

11:05

91, a

11:08

long time ago, lots changed, a

11:11

lot changed, we all got older, a bit

11:13

wiser. Was

11:15

that when Jill was talking about bringing the trophies?

11:18

Was it that year? Yeah, the Cup When It's

11:20

Cup. You brought the Cup When It's Cup? Yeah, I came out

11:22

with Lee Sharp and

11:24

Paulins. Was that a quiet evening? It

11:28

was turbulent at times, I brought my wife,

11:31

they brought, well Paul brought

11:33

his wife, fell out with

11:35

her within two hours of landing, and

11:39

then Lee Sharp brought his girlfriend

11:41

and he fell out. So me

11:43

and my wife ended up babysitting

11:45

two other people

11:47

that we'd barely met. So

11:50

you're glad to be back in Malta, what a

11:52

beautiful place. And what do you think

11:54

of this by the way? Oh this is outstanding, I think

11:56

you've got to be extremely proud of yourself for

11:58

what you've done. done here and what

12:01

you've produced. It's just amazing to look around

12:03

and all the memories

12:05

you know that just come

12:07

flooding back to you. Yeah I was just going to say

12:09

probably you see things. Obviously the history is there but it's

12:11

the memories of you know people

12:14

past present you know

12:16

and how we've all changed a little bit over

12:19

the years but it's I actually saw a

12:21

picture there when I was here in 91

12:23

inside the office there and my

12:25

wife's on there so I sent her the picture and the

12:27

reaction was oh my god. That

12:31

tells you everything. I was wondering for

12:33

someone like you who's been so involved

12:35

in the inner workings of Manchester United

12:37

as a player and then twice as

12:39

a coach when you

12:41

come to a place like this that is a bit

12:44

removed from from Manchester itself and

12:46

like even now there's the Munich exhibition

12:48

and those the original newspaper articles and

12:50

all the photos and everything that's here

12:53

how does that make you feel because obviously

12:56

you know how big Manchester United is but when

12:58

you're in it do you notice all of this?

13:01

You feel it you definitely feel it because

13:05

it's a great honor to

13:07

be able to associate yourself with not just

13:09

the football club but everybody's surrounded by that football

13:12

club and involved in that football club and

13:14

it's only until you travel and

13:16

then you go to places like Malta and other

13:18

places that you realize how

13:21

big how big you know the

13:23

supporters groups are and the club

13:25

itself and it is a huge

13:28

huge there I say organization

13:30

it's a bit of a monster at times but

13:32

it does give you a lot of pleasure to

13:34

actually meet people that obviously you

13:37

can't associate with because you're doing your

13:39

job and sometimes you know over the

13:41

years we've got to know you

13:43

guys here at Malta regular visits

13:46

and what have you but most of the time

13:48

you're at arms length all the time you know

13:50

about it you just can't touch it but it's

13:52

a great it's a great

13:54

feeling to have that there is lots and

13:56

lots of history and people that are really

13:59

red And you're joining

14:02

some of the guys in Munich over the next couple

14:04

of days. How much does that mean to you to

14:06

go there and pay your respect? It's

14:09

actually a really good honour, to

14:11

be honest. You hear about it, you

14:13

hear lots of stories, you talk to

14:15

people who've done exactly what I'm going to do.

14:19

Probably quite emotional in many respects even

14:21

to this day. We

14:23

are representing an institution and what's

14:26

come from that, you know,

14:28

through disaster and devastation to the

14:30

present day. It's quite remarkable

14:32

how it's stood the test of

14:34

time and just looking around here

14:36

now and even behind me and to the

14:39

side of me, it's just

14:41

not knowing these people but hearing so

14:43

much about them. That's really

14:45

important and I think every coach,

14:48

every player has to put

14:50

themselves in that position sometimes and

14:52

feel really honoured that

14:54

you're representing these guys, these

14:57

people. And I think that's

14:59

really important not to forget that. For the benefit

15:01

of people listening, the pictures that you're currently referencing

15:03

are of the Busby Babe, is that what you

15:05

mean specifically? Yeah, Busby

15:08

Babe is the history, you know,

15:10

that's part of how Man United

15:12

has grown from that moment through

15:14

its tragedy really. But then

15:16

it's the follow-on from that. So every time, and

15:18

this is really important, that even when I was

15:21

a player, you wear that shirt and

15:24

it automatically means something

15:26

that you, you know, there's that great saying, you know,

15:29

I think the old blacks used it, you're just borrowing

15:31

the shirt. It was somebody else's before

15:33

you. So, and it really is that

15:36

type of feeling. It's really important to understand

15:38

that it isn't really your shirt, it's

15:41

the Manchester United shirt. And

15:43

I think that's a real thing

15:45

to not only pass down the line to

15:47

the academy boys, the people that come in,

15:49

but also new players when they come in,

15:52

that they definitely don't realise the enormity of

15:54

what they're walking into. But when

15:56

they're there, if they don't embrace it,

15:59

they're going to struggle. and I

16:01

think it's passed down through players

16:04

all the time. I was going to ask,

16:06

how much did Sir Alex and

16:08

even Ollie, how much importance did

16:10

they put in letting those young

16:13

players know? Because they could be

16:15

from Portugal, Spain, might

16:17

not be something they know a lot about, but

16:19

how important was that education for them?

16:22

Very important because players

16:24

pass now, they will still talk about the moment

16:27

they came to the club, but

16:29

not only that, it's only until you actually get

16:31

on that field and then you train and then

16:33

you embrace all this that you realise that's

16:36

a fair responsibility. And then you encourage them

16:38

to look into the history. It does start

16:40

at the academy level, that's for sure. You

16:44

know, Paul McGinnis was a great

16:46

one for making sure that that

16:48

was set in stone for all the young

16:50

players, obviously through his father and everything like that and

16:53

through Wolf. So it was

16:55

really, really important that they understood and

16:58

embraced the enormity of it, you know, and

17:00

enjoy the moment because it is a fleeting

17:02

moment. I mean, I've been looking at 22

17:05

years or something, I've had, you know, man

17:08

and boy, you know, I would class myself as a

17:10

boy at 20, I'd run and join the club, but

17:13

it's just been a continuation and

17:15

I feel really, really

17:18

honoured that I've had the opportunity to just

17:20

play, coach, system manager over a

17:22

period of time and then get the opportunity to

17:24

go back a second time. So it's pretty unique

17:26

for me. I pinch myself

17:28

sometimes, you know, that's happened. You've

17:31

had a few years with the

17:33

great man, Sir Matt. Yeah.

17:37

What was he like? Well, in them days

17:39

when you signed, you used to go in, you

17:41

cross the car park where the megastore is, then

17:43

you'd go in the side door where Kath used

17:46

to be on the side door, you'd go up

17:48

the stairs. And that was

17:50

roughly where the offices were, the top floor

17:52

was, I think, Martin Edwards's. You

17:54

very rarely go up there unless you were either signing or you

17:56

were leaving. But

17:59

then, as you... walked up into one of

18:01

the levels, immediately as you went

18:03

through the door, Samat's door was right across and

18:05

it was always open, always. So you, you know,

18:08

we used to go up there, match days, we'd

18:10

turn left, go down to the grill room, but

18:13

straight across from me, the first person

18:15

you really saw after Cath was Samat

18:17

and it always acknowledged, always. He always

18:19

said, hi son, always.

18:22

And you know, I never really knew him, you

18:24

know, I hope it wasn't that I had, you know, a friendship

18:26

with him because I was a player, but

18:28

you just appreciated that moment and then the

18:31

enormity of it was after

18:34

when I left playing and

18:37

then I came back as a, as a coach, then

18:39

you sort of inside it a little bit more on

18:42

that level and then obviously there's

18:44

opportunities then to talk to like Sir Alex

18:46

about, you know, he talked

18:48

a lot about Samat when he came to

18:50

the club, Bobby Charlton, these types of people

18:52

and how they embraced him.

18:54

Yeah. So then there's that

18:57

continuation of stories, which is,

18:59

which is really good. Would Samat ever come down

19:01

to the rest room after games or anything? Yeah,

19:03

he did. He came down sometimes and he'd always

19:05

go around, shake it and Bobby was the same.

19:07

Yeah, yeah. I remember Bobby, he would come down

19:10

and shake your hand and you know, win, lose

19:12

or draw. They did that and then on the

19:14

bigger occasions, of course, Samat

19:16

would, would just sort of wish everybody

19:18

good luck and that was it. Very,

19:21

very quiet unassuming guy in some ways. I

19:23

always felt he, you know, he appeared, he

19:25

disappeared, he appeared, he disappeared, but

19:28

the enormity of the presence

19:30

of the guy really, really made

19:32

you feel special. I was gonna ask, what was

19:34

his presence like at that point? Because for me

19:37

and I, Helena, I imagine be the same, because

19:39

of our age, he was just a mythical figure

19:41

because he, he'd, he'd already gone by the time

19:43

we knew who he was, but when

19:46

he was still alive and you were seeing him

19:48

in his office and stuff, was, was he this

19:51

huge titan legend of Manchester United or just he

19:53

was a manager and now he was there? Like

19:55

what, what? He just felt like a guy,

19:58

you know, just another guy who, but

20:00

who he'd achieved so much and was partly

20:03

responsible for why I

20:05

was there in a way, you know. He

20:08

was very gentle, he seemed to be very

20:10

gentle. I don't know about him as a

20:12

coach or a manager. I never really asked that question

20:14

when he was like that way, but as

20:16

a human being, he had time for you.

20:19

He'd time for everybody really, you know. You know when

20:21

somebody walks into a room and everybody goes, ooh, he

20:24

had that about him. You just go, ooh. And

20:27

that was really something that stays

20:29

with you. It never leaves

20:32

you. But I never really had many

20:34

conversations with him, if any, you know,

20:36

but I didn't need to. People told you

20:38

about him, you know. Supporters

20:40

told you about him, you know. Even my father,

20:43

he knew of him, you know,

20:45

and he knew of George Best of this

20:47

world, and you know, I never saw them

20:50

play, but you know, they talked about these

20:52

people even though my father wasn't a Manchester

20:54

Knights porter, he's a bow sporter, but he

20:56

knew George Best, oh, there

20:58

you go, that's my husband, and

21:00

all these types of people. So Manchester

21:03

Knights was a really prominent, you know,

21:05

young footballer's mind. Would you

21:07

say your father is the reason that

21:10

you had the love of football from a young age? Yeah,

21:12

my dad never played. I have a brother, he

21:15

played a little bit, but my dad was

21:17

a shift worker, he was a textile guy. The

21:21

only time I really played

21:23

football with my dad was when he was sort

21:25

of doing the shifts in between sort of two

21:27

till 10, six till two. So

21:30

we had an hour when we'd just go and play

21:32

football with a lot of his mates we were working

21:34

with, and that's really when I got involved in

21:36

football, and my mother and my father,

21:38

they supported me all through, just like

21:40

many parents do, and if you've got a

21:42

little bit of talent, and then you just

21:45

love playing football, don't you, you play three games a weekend,

21:47

and you've still got the dirt on your legs from the

21:49

previous game, aren't you, and things like that. We did all

21:51

that, and then eventually, somebody

21:53

comes along and thinks you're decent

21:55

at it, so. You say that very

21:58

casually, like eventually someone comes along. tell

22:00

you they don't always come along. In those days you

22:02

always knew there was somebody

22:07

watching you because they had a sheepskin caught on.

22:10

So whoever had a sheepskin is usually a scout. At

22:12

what age were you when people started coming to watch and

22:14

at that point were you thinking this could be my career

22:17

this is something I want to do with my life did

22:19

you have any other aspirations? No

22:21

I enjoyed playing football I mean

22:23

I started playing probably around about

22:26

eight nine and I

22:28

started actually with a team I

22:30

live in the same village that I was brought up in and

22:34

my team at the time was just a street team

22:36

we played street teams and it

22:38

was ten labs

22:40

and a go and

22:42

we just played and we were getting beat by you

22:44

know this I think one of the teams was called

22:46

High Causeway Crap Shots and I know

22:48

I was your team and just

22:52

Broadway Place I think it was called Broadway

22:54

Place and we just played we played against

22:56

each other big labs against little lads and

22:59

all that and you just get battered you

23:01

know I mean you I'm nine years ten

23:03

years of age and you just get it

23:05

beat by seniors really and

23:08

then I took an interest really in it because

23:11

I started playing at school and then

23:13

obviously you'd be getting to your town teams and

23:15

we had local town teams then and then it

23:18

starts to get a little bit more exciting and

23:20

at 14 I was asked to

23:24

go on trial to to Burnley which

23:26

was my local club. If

23:28

you hadn't have made it in football what was

23:31

the backup? I never really thought

23:33

about it the actual when the moment came when

23:35

I left school I actually hadn't been told anything

23:37

you know I'm gonna be an apprentice at Burnley

23:39

or anything like that and I was a little

23:41

bit where'd you go from here? Do you

23:44

go to college? Do you go to work? What age

23:46

was that? Was it 16? Yeah 16 yeah

23:48

yeah so I was thinking do I

23:51

go in the forces probably learn to be

23:53

a teacher because that seemed to be the

23:56

next level that a lot of your mates were doing they

23:58

were going in the army or whatever And

24:00

I just thought, somebody please make

24:03

a call and just tell me. And then it

24:05

went on for about a week after I left

24:07

school and I'm thinking all sorts of things. And

24:09

then the call came, would you like to join Burnley

24:12

of Sayers and Apprentice? And it was like, not

24:14

off, you know, we've got to do that. And it

24:16

was like relief, real, real feeling

24:19

of relief that I

24:21

was going to be an apprentice at my

24:23

hometown football club. £15 it was, got £15

24:25

a week. And I

24:27

was rich. That was rich. Honestly.

24:31

What did you get as an apprentice? Cash. Cash.

24:36

It was cash cash. In a little brown envelope. 15 quid.

24:39

Yeah. And I think my

24:41

mum and dad got 16 quid for

24:43

Digz one a year. Yeah. Did

24:46

you give anything to your mum and dad? No,

24:49

the 16 quid was enough. It

24:52

fed me three meals a day. Made

24:55

my bed. You didn't actually

24:57

get that much more considering it was quite a long

24:59

time after. No. That

25:01

was my first year of apprenticeship. Second

25:04

year went up to £35. Right.

25:08

18 bonus was £2 a win, £1 draw. Reserve

25:11

was... You always knew you

25:13

was doing well. Especially after

25:15

I was a year as an apprentice and then

25:18

I broke into the team. We

25:20

always knew you were doing well because every

25:22

Thursday when the manager used to bring in

25:25

a little brown bag, a little brown case

25:27

and that was the money in. And he

25:29

used to come in and he used to dish it out

25:31

and he always knew you were doing well because your envelope

25:34

was a little bit thicker. And

25:36

he used to go, brilliant. And he used to open

25:38

it in the back pocket, deck it all, divvy

25:41

it out and then sort of stick a little bit

25:43

in the bank. Yeah, I put a little bit in

25:45

the bank. See, I knew you'd be so cool. And

25:47

I probably have a fiver in my pocket for

25:50

the week but it was enough. Amazing. It

25:52

was more than enough. It's why

25:55

he's doing the podcast. Yeah,

25:58

exactly. Yeah. So

26:01

at what point did that

26:03

journey to earning your £15 a week

26:05

become you're now a professional football player?

26:08

Well I broke into Burnley's first team as

26:11

an apprentice. As an apprentice, yeah.

26:13

Where are you playing at this point? I was

26:16

playing as a centre back. As

26:18

centre back? Yeah. And

26:20

I remember it vividly because

26:23

there was a programme in England called Kickoff. And

26:27

at that time, I think lead,

26:29

as an apprentice, at

26:32

that time they did a programme on two

26:34

apprentices from two different clubs. There was me

26:37

from Burnley and a guy who

26:39

played at Oldham, Darren McDonough. Yeah. And

26:42

it was going to be a comparison so they followed us for a

26:44

year. Oh wow. And

26:47

you'll not get it on DVD, it's all... You know what

26:49

I mean? We'll find it somewhere. But

26:53

they followed us for a year and in

26:56

fact that was the first, through that year, it was the first time

26:58

I met Dennis Law. He

27:00

narrated a little bit on it and I went

27:02

out with him something to eat at the end

27:04

of it all and he sort of spoke to

27:07

us. And Dennis always used to like a cup

27:09

of tea, always drank tea. And

27:12

I always remember him saying, come here son, sit down, have a

27:14

cup of tea. Have a cup of tea. We

27:17

talked about it, you know, and I'd known

27:19

of Dennis, but he was a legend then,

27:21

but he was doing this intro for it.

27:24

And then the thing came out and it was a

27:26

combination of, I sort

27:28

of pushed on and went in, Darren McDonough did

27:30

the same at Oldham, but then he fell away

27:33

and I went the other way. So

27:35

it was a great comparison. But

27:39

my debut came through like

27:41

anything, you know, you're training

27:44

and then on the Friday I got

27:47

a phone call, I didn't get a phone call, the

27:49

manager pulled me in the office and we had a

27:52

player called Jim Thompson, centre

27:54

back. And he was an

27:56

experienced guy and he

27:59

dropped out, injured. that afternoon and

28:02

I remember the manager saying you're

28:04

in the squad, you turn up and

28:08

the funny thing is the

28:12

camera, the kick-off cameras were actually

28:14

the morning of the game, my

28:17

debut game they actually, my

28:19

mum and dad allowed the cameras in to

28:21

the house, I didn't know they

28:24

were there, I woke up literally and it's on the

28:26

thing where I've just woke up and wow, I've got

28:28

a camera in your face, honestly that's

28:30

quite poppin' the cello's snuck into your bedroom they were

28:32

there with a camera and took the

28:34

picture of me getting up, my mum woke me up

28:36

that morning and it's like wow, what's going on here?

28:40

I can remember the supporters, because I

28:42

was a local boy and

28:44

the supporters loved it, a local boy playing for

28:46

the team and what have you and

28:49

to be honest, from that moment on it just

28:52

kept going up and up and up suffered

28:54

a few injuries and stuff like that,

28:56

but that was incredible

28:58

how soon after that then did

29:00

you become professional? pretty

29:03

much after it right, okay

29:05

yeah, it was sort of wonderful so you

29:07

never saw your apprenticeship home? no, it was

29:09

more or less a done deal then once

29:12

you get in and then what

29:14

did you get then? you get a bit extra then, I think I got

29:16

about 50 quid 50

29:18

pound a week and then I was mega rich you

29:20

know what I mean? so

29:22

a good few years at Burnley and

29:25

then in 1985 you made the move

29:27

to Norwich how was it

29:29

leaving Burnley, your four head club? how

29:33

was your dad? at that time Burnley was

29:35

up and down really you know, we were

29:38

doing really well then we got relegated then

29:40

we get back up so my early career

29:42

was sort of fluctuating between divisions I actually

29:44

met a guy and you may have heard

29:46

of the guy if

29:48

you were in McElroy very

29:50

old player player for England and he was

29:53

like the main man at

29:55

Burnley over the years my dad knew

29:57

of him, watched him but

29:59

he was like the hero like the George Best

30:01

of Burnley. They named a

30:04

stand after him at Burnley. And

30:07

I never met him. And right

30:09

at the end of that season, I went to

30:11

a dinner and he

30:13

was doing the speech and he invited me over

30:15

after the dinner and said, I want five minutes

30:17

with you. And he used

30:19

to write in the local paper in the golf scene. So

30:23

I was like, oh Jimmy Matt, I've heard of

30:25

you. And my dad sat me down and the

30:27

first thing he said to me was, you have

30:29

to leave Burnley. And I was like,

30:32

wow. It wasn't, hi, how

30:34

you doing? You know you have to

30:36

leave Burnley if you want to do better and da da. And

30:39

that stood with me. And then

30:41

John Bond left the club and Norwich came

30:43

right out in the blue. It was like

30:46

my first thoughts when somebody told, there was

30:48

a caretaker in charge and he said, oh

30:50

Norwich want to buy you. And

30:52

I was sitting there going, Norwich,

30:54

where's that? Where's Norwich? And

30:58

believe you me, you say that, it's like

31:00

going from Manchester to Malta. But

31:03

it's middle of nowhere, out of the way. That's

31:05

the quicker to get to Malta than it is.

31:07

All right, tell me about it. Yeah. So

31:10

I went and they said, well, we've agreed

31:12

a fee. Go down and

31:14

talk to them. And I was like,

31:16

wow, I'll go and talk to them. I don't know where

31:19

it is. And when

31:21

you go into somewhere, it just felt really

31:23

good. And I remember it well, as I

31:25

said to my girlfriend at the time, it

31:27

was pretty good. And I said, I'll

31:30

just go down and have a chat. I'll get back.

31:32

You know what I mean? Anyway, I came back and

31:34

I told her that I'd be signed. So it was a

31:36

real jump for me, but

31:42

I moved out of that home, you know, out

31:44

of mum and dad and I went down there for a

31:47

year, living rough really for a year. Cause that's what you

31:49

did. You just have a sleeping on matches with a couple

31:51

of the players and stuff like that.

31:53

So we just slumming it really, but it was a

31:55

great year. Really good year. It

31:57

was sucks. We got promoted cause they... won

32:00

the milk cup and then they got relegated that

32:02

year and Steve Bruce

32:04

was there, Chris Woods

32:06

the goalkeeper, Dave Watson,

32:09

there was quite a number of good

32:11

players that they kept that year having

32:13

got relegated and we got automatically

32:15

promoted. At this point you've won a

32:18

Division 3 medal with Burnley. Yes. Division

32:20

2 now with Norwich, there is no Premier League

32:22

so first division is what comes next. Just

32:26

because of time, we'll now skip the rest

32:28

of the time at Norwich. Thanks

32:31

for coming mate. I

32:33

think it's what everyone's more interested in. When

32:36

did that move come about and what were

32:38

your feelings around that and how old were

32:40

you? I

32:43

can't remember how old I was, I can remember the moment though.

32:46

I was in my garden at the end of the

32:48

season, I was injured at the end of the season

32:50

for Norwich and my contract was coming up. You were

32:52

about 20 years. 26 years, good age. Great

32:54

age. I

32:57

was thinking about do I stay because if I had signed

32:59

again there I would have stayed for the rest of my

33:01

life. It was one of those places where I

33:04

was captained at the time and I was

33:06

in my garden before I was going to

33:08

training one morning. I only

33:10

lived a mile, Norwich in them days,

33:13

living a mile outside of the city,

33:15

countryside. I

33:18

was in the garden and I got a

33:20

phone call and Bridget, my wife, opened the

33:22

kitchen window and she's

33:25

going, call for you. There's a fellow

33:27

on the line, I can't understand the word he's saying.

33:30

But he says he's from Manchester United and

33:32

I was in the garden and I went nah, you know what I mean?

33:35

That's not possible. So I said,

33:38

no, it's a guy, you better take it. You

33:40

better take it. Anyway, it was Sir Alex on

33:42

the phone and he was saying hi, your son.

33:44

He said the same, hi, your son. I

33:46

went, yeah, yeah. He said, Sir Alex. But he did what he

33:48

wasn't, sir. He said, it's Alex. I'm thinking, Alex, how'd it go?

33:51

Alex Ferguson, Manchester United. I

33:54

went, yeah, yeah, all right, OK. He

33:57

says, would you be interested in having a chat with us?

34:00

And I went, yeah, why not? And we still were

34:03

in the season, you know, and we were actually our

34:05

last, I think it was the second to last game

34:07

we were playing in Sheffield. And

34:10

I was injured, but he said, right,

34:12

Sheffield, you're playing Sheffield, Wednesday it was.

34:16

And he says, right, we'll

34:18

arrange something, I'll get back in touch with you.

34:21

So I travelled up to Sheffield with a team and

34:24

I got a phone call saying, we're

34:27

coming to Sheffield. I

34:29

said, who's coming? He said, him and Archie

34:32

Knox, we're driving to Sheffield and

34:34

we'll see you at the

34:36

hotel. And I went, oh,

34:39

why are you standing in Norwich? Yeah,

34:41

yeah. And I went, well,

34:44

we hadn't got there, we're still on the bus

34:46

then. And the daft thing was we turned up

34:49

at Sheffield, we went in the hotel. I remember

34:51

the, we called the Hallam Towers, I think it

34:53

was called the hotel. As

34:55

you went in reception, who was in reception was

34:58

the Sheffield, Wednesday team and Ron

35:01

Atkinson sat in the

35:03

reception. So I've gone in, I've got my bag gone

35:05

to the room, I've been in and I get the

35:07

call. Apparently what

35:09

happened, Archie Knox had

35:11

come into the hotel and seen them

35:14

all sat there. And so he's phoned me up and

35:16

gone, get yourself out in the car park and he

35:18

doped on the car park, can't come inside and all

35:20

that. And it was, it was weird.

35:22

And then I got in the car and we drove off somewhere

35:24

and then he just said, right. So hang

35:27

on, this is you? This is me, Archie and

35:29

Sarah. So Alex, in the car driving off somewhere? Just

35:31

driving into middle of nowhere and then he was like,

35:33

right, here we go. And then he just said, you

35:35

want to join, you know? Were you in the back?

35:37

I was in the back. You

35:41

can make this, this scene into a

35:44

TV thing. I didn't think it'd happen.

35:46

It was just surreal, surreal. And

35:48

then I'm thinking, wow, what am I doing in here? And

35:50

then this guy's saying, do you want to join? I said,

35:52

yeah, it would be really interesting to join. And

35:55

then that was it. He said, right, we'll be in touch. Drop me

35:57

back at the hotel. And that was

35:59

it. And then. Once the season finished,

36:02

we got together from Harvey. But the funny thing

36:04

about when I signed, it was

36:07

I had Arsenal were interested at

36:09

one point. I didn't fancy London.

36:11

And then Everton and

36:13

Manu. And Everton at

36:15

the time, Colin Harvey was the manager. And

36:18

it worked out that I went to talk

36:21

to Everton in the morning that I was

36:23

talking in the afternoon to Manchester United. So

36:26

I went to Everton, talked, it was fantastic. I

36:28

loved Everton. I loved playing at Everton. And

36:31

I thought, wow. And I drove

36:33

then back from Everton to

36:35

Old Trafford. I got out the car, the car park

36:37

again that's there across from the megastore, walked across the

36:39

car park to go in. As

36:41

I'm walking in, Martin Keown's walking out.

36:44

Martin Keown's walking out. So we shake hands, say

36:47

hi. He says, oh, I've just been talking to

36:49

Manchester United. I

36:51

went, yeah, I'm going in now to have a natter.

36:54

And he said, and I'm going to Everton. I said, I've

36:56

just come for Everton. He says, I'm going to Everton. He

36:59

signed for Everton. And I signed for Manu.

37:03

It was unbelievable. So that conversation that you had. And I

37:05

won everything. And he struggled through his life. Was

37:10

that, how many, what months would that

37:12

have been? That

37:15

would be probably end of

37:17

May, June. Right, OK. So it wasn't too long.

37:19

But you had to keep that to

37:22

yourself until you signed you?

37:24

No, because I think then you had

37:26

your contract ran until June 30th. So

37:29

you could sign after that. But everything was done

37:31

more or less before that. And then

37:34

obviously they'd either form Norwich and

37:36

whatever. But my contract was up.

37:38

So it was

37:40

literally courtesy to just sort of get the clubs

37:42

to talk to each other. And then it went

37:44

from there. And obviously you knew Steve Bruce there? Yeah,

37:47

I knew Steve. It's one

37:49

of those occasions when it was empty. The place

37:51

was empty. There's nobody there. Martin

37:54

Edwards was in his office. So Alex met

37:56

me, took me up to his office. And

37:58

then we had a. a

38:00

little chat about things but I remember sitting in

38:02

the grill room I didn't know it was the

38:05

grill room at the time but scampi in a

38:07

basket we got stuff and chips in a basket

38:09

but looking out onto the field it was empty

38:12

there was nobody there, absolutely nobody there but

38:14

it was one of those weird moments when

38:17

everybody was there I just

38:19

remember looking out the window and thinking this

38:21

is full you know

38:23

and then you get the idea of the theatre of

38:25

dreams and all that and it literally felt as though

38:27

eyes were watching you and it's empty to play and

38:30

I always remember I was really keen on Everton,

38:32

really keen more

38:34

money on offer at Everton but

38:37

just being there and getting that pretty sensation I just thought

38:39

I've got to have a go at this, I really got

38:41

to have a go at this and at that time United

38:43

were, you know, they were just finding

38:45

the feet really I think Sir Alex had been

38:47

in the job a couple of years, maybe a

38:49

year A lot of pressure on him

38:51

as well Yeah, yeah but doing it

38:54

was the best thing you know, just

38:56

being satisfied with signing

38:58

from Manchester United and then getting on with

39:00

it and it was completely

39:02

different, the Norwich, completely different What's

39:05

the standards of professionalism? Well

39:07

it goes back to what we started with,

39:10

the historical side of it you know, I

39:12

remember, I remember, you know, always people talking

39:14

about Manchester United but it was just that

39:16

feeling of being part of something and

39:18

I was always a believer of if you don't give it

39:20

a go you never know you'll never find out So

39:25

I jumped in, I jumped

39:27

in and the enormity of Manchester United actually

39:29

hit me when that first season

39:33

we, I think the pre-season tour was

39:35

Asia and it was Bangkok

39:37

and Thailand and getting off

39:39

that plane in Bangkok and there's like

39:41

3,000 people at the airport all,

39:44

you know, football Beatles again, you know what I

39:46

mean, it was a Beatles but they're all screaming

39:48

and shouting and it was remarkable so that was

39:50

then when you realised, wow, this is pretty special

39:53

and it was an up and down sort of

39:56

first season Well, it had a good up at

39:58

the end, didn't it? We

40:00

won the FA Cup, some say that kept Sir

40:03

Alex in his job but I don't think that

40:05

was the case, but we did struggle. We actually

40:07

won the first game against Arsenal, we smashed Arsenal,

40:09

first game at home, remember it well.

40:12

And then we went on a really poor run, I think

40:14

we were down, we could have slipped into the bottom three

40:16

at one point I think, but then

40:18

the FA Cup took us to the next level really. When

40:21

it comes to Sir Alex, in this instance you say about

40:23

that catch him in his job, you've got an insight that

40:25

no one else will have. What

40:27

was the Alex Ferguson like that

40:30

hadn't won a trophy yet compared to the one you

40:32

would then work with years later who was a Knight

40:34

of the Realm and had won bags of trophies? As

40:38

a manager he was tough, he was

40:40

aggressive, he could

40:43

be aggressive, he could be a nice

40:45

as pie but he could be more

40:47

times than not aggressive. And

40:49

he really had a way about him where, because

40:52

he'd selected you and brought you in, he had a

40:54

lot of faith in you and

40:56

you always felt as though you never wanted to let

40:58

him down because he'd give

41:00

you the opportunity in the first place. So he

41:03

had you, he had you either you

41:05

play or you don't play. And the

41:08

only way to keep playing was to play well.

41:10

He had that sort of approach. And

41:14

Archie Knox's assistant was good that way as well, I

41:16

mean there were two fiery guys, they had them two

41:18

together, they could argue with each other for fun and

41:20

it was a show in itself watching them talk. But

41:24

in the main it

41:26

was this is what we want to do, this is how

41:28

we want to do it and we're going to

41:30

go for it. And that first

41:32

year was turbulent, it was turbulent

41:34

and the memories and you were

41:36

supporters and what have you, it

41:38

was a kind of pressure where

41:41

we haven't won, we haven't won the

41:43

league and we haven't, you know this club needs

41:45

to be at the top again and you're never

41:48

as good as the

41:50

past players, that was always rammed down your throat,

41:52

you'll never be as good as them, you'll never.

41:54

And then once we got on the cup run

41:57

and we won the cup, everything changed, the belief

41:59

in the dressing room, the plane side of things,

42:01

it was like, right, we want to do something again,

42:03

we want to go again, we want to go again.

42:05

And it just, that jigsaw puzzle came

42:07

together and it just moved forward all the time. And

42:10

we built on something. What did it mean

42:12

to you personally to win the FA Cup? Oh,

42:15

that was a dream because as a kid, you

42:17

know, I remember the

42:19

FA Cup final day on a Saturday,

42:21

it used to start at 7am in

42:23

the morning. And it used to

42:25

be kid shows and everything, you know, both teams

42:27

and then the... Cameraman in the bedroom. Cameraman.

42:32

Well, the cameraman then, them days, was on the team

42:34

bus going to the ground. So

42:36

it was a whole day. You know, you get

42:38

to that age where you're sort of an apprentice

42:40

or even before that, oh, I'd love to have

42:42

a look at that, when my twin towers, it

42:44

was fantastic. And you've been through my mind before?

42:46

I'd only been to London once ever in my life. What?

42:50

As a kid, as a player, and I went to

42:52

Lewisham to play a team in Lewisham.

42:55

Right. And it was the first time

42:57

I'd ever done it. And then the FA Cup final was

42:59

the first time I'd ever been to Wembley. What about like

43:01

away Arsenal or Chelsea or...? No. Really?

43:05

That's mental, isn't it? Yeah.

43:07

Yeah. I played after that, but

43:10

Wembley for me, winning the FA Cup

43:12

was all about the dream of

43:14

being a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:16

What do you actually remember about that day? Is it some

43:18

of the sticks in your mind or...? I

43:21

remember... Was you nervous? I

43:25

wasn't nervous. No, it was more... I wanted

43:30

just to enjoy the moment, soak it all up.

43:32

So I never really felt nervous. In all the

43:34

finals I played in, to be honest, I

43:37

was always smiling and happy to be there. You know what

43:39

I mean? You're one of them. Just happy

43:41

to be there. Because you don't realise how much work

43:43

goes into actually trying to get to those fans, let

43:45

alone win them. You know what I mean? And

43:48

it happened a lot in my career where I

43:50

just thought, I'm here. Yeah. I

43:53

remember the moment. And played a game. And

43:55

most of the finals I can't remember. I can

43:57

remember afterwards. I can remember a bit before. But

44:00

I can't remember the game. And to be

44:03

honest, I've never watched that final

44:05

again. I've never watched the cutwinners'

44:07

cut final again. Honestly, I've

44:09

never... It's there, it's in

44:11

my head. Have you not seen that interview with

44:13

Powley? Watched it so many times. No, that

44:15

interview just goes unbelievable. Unbelievable. I mean, just

44:17

repeat that. I've never seen that. I've not

44:19

seen it. Exactly. And

44:21

I just kept in my head moving on. It

44:23

was like, move on, done it, brilliant, want to

44:26

do it again. And that was my

44:28

approach to it all the time and just trying to

44:30

make sure I was

44:32

in the right frame of mind and the

44:34

right physical condition to be able to be

44:36

given that opportunity again. So it

44:38

was literally... The only time I

44:40

really reflected was when I came out of coaching at

44:42

Man United when Sir Alex retired. And I had about

44:44

16 months when I didn't do

44:46

anything because it was like

44:49

a roller coaster of just training, playing, sorting

44:52

the team out and everything.

44:54

And then I actually went 12

44:58

months later, 14 months later, I did

45:00

a presentation evening and

45:02

the compaire introduced me and

45:04

read out the list of honours

45:06

that I'd had. And I was like,

45:09

really? It was like, wow, that's not bad,

45:11

that. But I'd never thought about it. I'd

45:13

never thought about that at the time. I'm

45:16

going to do that again now because in

45:18

a minute we're going to take some questions

45:20

from the audience. So before

45:22

we finish with you, I think we should

45:25

do that and go through what you actually won and you

45:27

can tell us what that was like. See if you've missed

45:29

anything. As a player or coach? As a player. So for

45:31

those that are listening and for those of you in the

45:33

audience, Mick has been on the podcast

45:35

before and it was a special episode where we

45:37

just talked about your life as a coach, whereas

45:39

this one obviously we've talked about the player. So

45:41

football third

45:43

division, football second division,

45:46

Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup,

45:48

Charity Shield, European Cup, Winners Cup.

45:51

Everything pretty much but the first

45:53

division. Yeah, that

45:55

was one I couldn't get but I did that

45:57

as a coach. It's

46:02

funny when you get on that merry-go-round and

46:04

whatever, once you've achieved a bit of success

46:06

and once you've enjoyed that moment, because we

46:09

celebrated, didn't we? When we won, we celebrated.

46:11

It just went on and on and on, didn't it? And

46:14

so it should. It's that moment where

46:16

everything comes together. And

46:18

then there's a moment where you go, right, calm down

46:20

now, get back to the job and let's do it

46:22

again. And that

46:25

was always instilling us as players

46:27

and certainly as coaches and players,

46:29

do you want to do it again? Do you

46:31

want to go again? Right, you've had your fun, you've got the

46:33

medal, done, let's go and do

46:35

it again. And that was the challenge all the

46:37

time. And that stayed with me throughout my coaching

46:39

side as well, you know, just wanting to go

46:42

on that journey again and win. And

46:45

then it took you to the next level and coaching

46:47

then takes you into a different environment. But

46:50

certainly coaching, managing is a different

46:52

kettle of fish. But to

46:54

actually win things again when you're doing that. I

46:57

mean, I appreciated things that

47:00

the manager did when I was a player. I

47:02

didn't appreciate it when I was a player. Sometimes

47:04

what the manager did, like leaving you out or

47:06

dropping you or, you know, sort of all those

47:08

sorts of things. But then when you went into

47:11

coaching and managing, all that thing,

47:13

all those questions were answered, if

47:16

you understand. Because I was in that environment

47:18

of decision making and why

47:20

he would do something like that and

47:23

got understanding of it then. But

47:26

it was all part and parcel of it and how

47:28

hard it is. So Alex always

47:30

used to say, it's hard to pick a

47:33

football team from Manchester United because everybody could

47:35

play, everybody. And he

47:37

didn't enjoy doing it. He didn't enjoy doing it. You

47:39

could see that all through his career. But

47:42

he made the big decisions. And

47:45

that was his strength, really. You could make a

47:47

decision and stick by it and you were in.

47:50

You were never out full enough. It was like you

47:52

were in, but you were part of something. And

47:54

he made those people that weren't playing regularly

47:57

really special. He's well known

47:59

for that, isn't he? Did he always

48:01

do that himself or were you ever

48:03

sent to go and tell a player that there

48:05

were less than a minute? There was an instance, this is when I

48:07

was a player and then as an assistant,

48:09

as a coach. When

48:11

you were a player, you'd get to

48:13

the club three hours before, you'd have your grill room

48:16

and someone to go down to the dressing room because

48:18

you had to do because I'm proud you couldn't get

48:20

in otherwise. As a

48:23

player, you'd go into the dressing room for the team meeting

48:26

and he never told the team until probably

48:28

an hour and a quarter before kickoff. So

48:31

you'd all be sitting there and them days were all suited

48:33

and booted and everything, it was all sitting waiting. But

48:37

before the game, before he went into

48:39

the meeting, he used to send Brian

48:41

Kidd from his office into

48:43

the dressing room and he literally would look

48:46

around Brian and he'd go, clear

48:48

the finger. And

48:51

everybody, that, you know, it was like, here we go. You

48:53

know what I mean? I

48:56

became that guy when I was a coach. He

48:58

used to send me in to do the curly

49:00

finger to others. He

49:02

wants to see you and he wants to see you. You

49:05

would call them in to see him? Yeah, he'd

49:07

say, get your songs on. Get your songs on.

49:09

Careful, what's a word? Oh, this is going to

49:11

be a good word. And

49:14

then they'd go out of work, come back and they'd either

49:16

be, all right, or they'd be like,

49:18

here we go. Not played. And then he'd come in

49:20

and then the team. Well,

49:23

I don't want to be that guy because I feel like we could

49:25

do this forever because your stories are wonderful. But

49:27

we're going to stop asking our questions now and we're going to

49:30

hand over to the audience and let you guys ask some questions

49:32

if you want to. So

49:34

my question is actually going to take

49:36

me back to from where you started,

49:39

Mike. You

49:41

mentioned change from

49:43

when you first came to Malta in 1991 to

49:45

now. You've

49:48

seen, you know, big change. The

49:51

same change is happening in football now.

49:54

And when the time that you

49:56

and David played to, you know,

49:58

how the game is played today. How

50:01

do you view that change? In the sense of,

50:04

I mean, let's take a recent

50:07

example. The game against Wolves, the

50:09

penalty that we suffered, that

50:11

we conceded. I mean, do you view

50:13

that as, you know, better

50:16

that you play in the football, the way

50:18

the football matches, football game is being played

50:20

today? Or do you prefer

50:22

the raw, rawness of the

50:25

football game that you played in? I

50:27

certainly enjoyed when we played,

50:30

because you could kick people. I was waiting for you to say that.

50:32

I knew I was going to kick people. Well, when you kick people,

50:36

they would get up straight away. You'd get kicked,

50:38

you'd get up. The penalty incident,

50:41

it's just, you know, one

50:43

thing I hate is seeing people diving. And

50:46

for the minuscule of touch, whatever it

50:48

was, and the way he dived,

50:50

you know, it's just horrible to watch. And then

50:52

you have to wait two minutes, three minutes for

50:55

VAR, and it just kills the game. It's

50:58

so much better now when I watch, like, the

51:00

FA Cup, and the

51:02

team that's at home doesn't have

51:04

VAR. I think the

51:06

game is so much better. The referees are

51:08

there to make decisions, just make the decision and

51:10

get on with it. And that's how you have

51:13

to live with it. Now it's

51:15

so different. So I

51:18

prefer the old school. I

51:20

think from my personal point of view,

51:23

over the number of years of growing through

51:25

it and then going on to the other

51:28

side sort of thing, the coaching and managing,

51:30

technologies played a big part

51:34

in the different parts of the

51:36

game, really. Everything scrutinised

51:38

more. You know, we all have mobile

51:40

phones now, they were never there in

51:42

my day. It was literally camera,

51:45

video, watch the game, rewind

51:48

it, go again. Nowadays, it's

51:50

instantaneous. So everything is pretty

51:53

more reactive, which

51:55

creates noise and

51:57

media coverage, bigger media coverage.

52:00

Everybody is massively opinionated. In

52:02

my playing days opinions were

52:04

shared by supporters after

52:06

the game probably having a beer you

52:09

know and talking about the game and then

52:11

going home and going to work again and

52:13

things like that looking forward to the next

52:15

game now it's consistently there so

52:17

everybody has a say in things and and

52:19

that can you know how many times have

52:21

we sat and read something and gone wow

52:24

did that really happen because that didn't happen

52:26

when I was watching and so there's a

52:28

lot of that the game itself has changed

52:30

to a degree in I wouldn't

52:32

say fitness levels because I always felt we were

52:35

fit as please and we burnt the candle you

52:37

know we like to drink you know we had

52:39

that culture now they don't do half of that

52:41

if any of that and they still

52:43

fit yeah they might be quicker

52:45

maybe the tactical elements changed a little bit

52:47

but all in all it's

52:50

still 11 v 11 it's still competitive

52:53

there's more scrutiny than ever than ever before you

52:55

can't get away from that now and I think

52:57

that creates the if I

52:59

can call it the product of football now

53:02

question question from curiosity

53:06

I presume Maisie

53:08

has already replied this maybe in previous

53:10

episodes of the podcast but

53:13

David and Mike who was the

53:15

best player that you have played with in

53:18

your career and who was the

53:20

hardest opponent you have faced

53:23

in your career player to

53:25

play with would have been Eric Cantona

53:27

I mean sometimes he

53:30

would just they'd

53:32

been missing in games and then it just come

53:34

up something so special and whether it's two-foot

53:37

in the lab in the crowd of Crystal Palace he

53:39

was always gonna do something special player

53:44

again I mean

53:46

she was up there as

53:48

a Dan does this you

53:51

physically I wasn't really bothered about then against

53:53

fashion you or anybody like that they

53:56

would just battle Duncan Ferguson horrible to

53:58

play against But

54:01

I loved the battle, I did. For

54:04

me, Brian Robson, playing with Brian Robson. In

54:07

my youth, when I first broke in at Birmingham, Martin

54:10

Dobson was my hero. But

54:13

Brian Robson was someone special to play

54:15

alongside. There's

54:18

been quite a few. Brian Macleod was great

54:20

to play with. Chuck,

54:23

he had a way about him where he was probably

54:25

the worst trainer at the football club, aged training, and

54:28

he had a match day. He covered the ground

54:30

when he was all over the place. I

54:32

think he ran on Larga

54:34

from it, a little side of it. He was so

54:36

full of it. But

54:39

an exceptional player. For me, probably

54:41

Brian Robson, to play

54:43

with. Actually play against. Players,

54:49

when you were younger, you always looked up to players.

54:52

When I was younger, I played against Kevin Keegan, believe it or

54:54

not. At Burnley, he was

54:56

playing for Newcastle. It

54:58

was down at Turf morning, he turned up and I

55:00

played. I was sent back and he was playing. He'd

55:03

just come back from Hamburg, I think it was.

55:06

So that was one of those moments, Kevin Keegan, while

55:08

he was not playing, even coming to Burnley and playing,

55:10

but playing against him. That

55:12

was an interesting one. When I was at United, I played in

55:14

a game where we, Athletic

55:17

Co-Madrid, and it was Paolo Futre.

55:21

He gave me Twisted Blood, to be fair.

55:24

He was cunning and cute. I

55:27

just thought he was outstanding. Again, when I

55:29

was a young kid at Burnley, breaking through,

55:32

I played a few games in the

55:34

reserves. In them days, the league was

55:36

mirrored by. If Burnley were

55:39

playing Manchester United at Manchester United, Manchester United

55:41

reserves were playing Burnley. I

55:43

played in the reserves against Manchester United.

55:47

I played against the

55:49

Greenough, the twins brothers. It

55:53

was a lesson as a kid. It

55:56

was a lesson. They

55:58

just did things. selling me for a

56:01

bag of crisps, you know, I was going

56:03

for a bag of crisps and they were

56:05

passing it away and it was all part

56:07

of the learning curve and I always remember

56:09

Arnold Murin, I played

56:11

against him. I actually

56:13

played against Norman Whiteside as a kid when he was a

56:16

kid. That was in the

56:18

cliff, in the A team then,

56:20

in like M-B teams and they were flying him

56:22

in from Northern Ireland every game to play and

56:24

he was 15 years of age

56:26

I think he was but he was a monster. He looked

56:28

about 30 years. Again I'm

56:31

going to do the boring bit which is we

56:34

have to finish but

56:36

thank you all so much for coming, thank you for

56:38

listening, thank you for asking questions. Man,

56:41

that was

56:43

great, I

56:46

handed a balloon. Obviously you've seen

56:48

the thing, I wish I had

56:50

a pound for

56:58

every time. But you know

57:01

at the game I remember it really

57:03

really well because I was

57:06

just sitting the dugout, the game was going on

57:08

but I could just before the game started there

57:10

was a couple of balloons and this balloon, if

57:14

I'm sitting here and the game is going on down here and

57:16

I remember seeing this balloon and

57:19

you know when something gets in your head and it stays in

57:21

your head, it just, this balloon stayed

57:23

in my head and I thought if that

57:26

balloon comes near me, having it,

57:28

having it and it just

57:30

got, it was as if I'd sucked it towards me

57:32

and it was coming along, coming along and the game

57:34

was going on and all of a sudden I just

57:36

grabbed it, put it down and I went, bang. He

57:40

absolutely wet himself. He

57:43

jumped and I was laughing

57:45

my head off, I was literally laughing and

57:47

I wasn't interested in the game

57:49

at all and I'm thinking I'm a bloody coach here like

57:52

I'm a system manager and I'm wetting

57:54

myself. I remember it well because I

57:56

thought that's me done, I'll do this,

57:58

tomorrow I'll be out. before he died.

58:01

Then I saw it again and obviously got played over

58:03

and over again and the

58:06

next morning Sir Alex come into his office and

58:10

he tried to be serious

58:12

about having a go at

58:14

me for it and all that but he had that cheeky

58:16

smile on his face and

58:19

he started laughing and what

58:21

help was his grandchildren had seen it and

58:24

they thought it was really funny that

58:27

their grandfather had had this experience. So

58:29

they feared your job. They more or

58:31

less kept me in work. But it

58:33

was just one of those magic moments.