0:00

Hello,

0:11

Yellowstone fans. It's Jefferson

0:13

White with you again. Jimmy Hertz from on

0:15

the show. And can I just say that it is it's

0:17

good to be back. And I'm not just talking about

0:20

the podcast. I think they were

0:22

all kinda reeling from this mid season

0:24

finale. cannot wait to dive

0:26

into it and unpack it with the one

0:28

and only

0:29

Jinlandin, AKA, teeter.

0:32

Hey, Jeff. And speaking for entire

0:34

Yellowstone community, because I can. I

0:36

just gotta say it's really good to have you home

0:39

even if that home is at the four sixes.

0:41

It's it was so heartwarming to see you.

0:43

And we might be seeing each other soon because it looks like

0:45

teenagers going to Texas, so I'm gonna keep my eye

0:48

out for you. How crazy

0:50

was this episode. Really

0:53

wild. An episode with these amazing

0:56

contrasts. Right? So there there's

0:58

total law loyalty being demonstrated

1:01

and also just devastating betrayal?

1:05

Yeah. Like, from young

1:07

RIPS branding and the commitment

1:10

of that, to the

1:12

ranch, to Jamie's knife

1:15

in the back. I mean, it was just crazy.

1:18

Unbelievable. So we're gonna cover all that. Plus,

1:21

we are

1:21

very, very lucky. We're gonna talk to the man

1:23

of the hour, Wes Bentley, Jamie

1:25

Duttons, and maybe get a glimpse

1:27

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1:30

flipping to these pages like, wow, that's gonna be

1:32

a beautiful scene. And then I turn it, and

1:34

all I see is someone's dragging me down

1:36

the hallway, kicking me in the face, and I'm crying.

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3:32

Jeff, do your parents ever call you after an episode?

3:35

To talk to you about what they didn't

3:37

like that you did or

3:39

just to tell you maybe that they would have

3:41

preferred that do it slightly differently?

3:45

I hope that's devastating to hear.

3:47

Luckily, no, they don't because I haven't been

3:49

in any of the episodes. It's Jeff,

3:52

I think today's episode is

3:55

really gonna be about you. I've

3:57

have of mind to interview you as

3:59

the guest because Jimmy does come back.

4:02

With a bang, I

4:04

loved all of those scenes between you and Emily.

4:06

Oh, thank you that was a real it was an incredible

4:09

treat to get to do that stuff with Kat Kelly.

4:11

And I'm also just excited for what the future

4:13

holds. I'm incredibly

4:15

excited to get to work with my friends again

4:17

because let me tell you it was a long

4:20

long half season being

4:22

banished, banished from the

4:24

ranch. Speaking of banishment,

4:26

you know, this is also a huge Jamie

4:29

episode. AND JAMIE SEEMS TO HAVE PERHAPS

4:31

BEEN PUSHED SO CLOSE TO THE EDGE

4:33

THAT HE'S MAYBE FINALLY

4:36

SNAPT AND luckily, we're gonna

4:38

hear it from the horse's mouth as it

4:40

were. We've got Wes Bentley as a guest today.

4:42

I'm so so excited to dig

4:44

into this stuff with Wes. Yeah.

4:46

I I actually this was my favorite

4:48

season for the

4:50

Jamie character and Wes the actor.

4:53

This might the last two

4:55

episodes might have been my favorite two episodes. And

4:57

this the seat the scene

4:59

with Beth in this episode was

5:01

was probably my favorite scene of all

5:03

time for him. I can't help but be reminded

5:05

of the fight between Jamie and Beth in

5:07

season one. There's this, like,

5:09

blowout fight they have in the barn

5:11

that I think comes to blows and

5:14

this scene really bookended that,

5:16

but both of these characters have changed

5:18

so much. You know, the events the

5:20

events of the last five seasons changed

5:22

them so much such that this is a

5:24

much deeper,

5:27

richer, sort of, nastier

5:29

conflict that's digging up

5:32

years and years of resentment

5:35

and anger and trauma

5:37

that these characters have shared or

5:39

failed to share. So

5:41

it's really, really rich, exciting

5:43

stuff. I can't wait to talk to Wes about it. Yeah.

5:47

So before we do that, should

5:49

we just jump to the top and take everyone

5:51

through this episode? Let's

5:53

do That sounds great. Why not start at the beginning?

5:56

It's a very good place to start. So,

6:00

you know, we start we

6:02

start in a cheery scene, a body,

6:05

being dumped at the train station, you

6:07

know, a real, real cheerful

6:09

moment. I thought it

6:11

was so interesting the dynamic that's

6:13

being established there. In terms of the relationship

6:15

with the train station, the way

6:18

that Josh Lucas sort

6:20

of was whatever

6:23

he was going through in that truck

6:25

as young rep and young

6:27

Lloyd were dumping that body was

6:29

particularly interested to me. I wondered if you have

6:31

thoughts about that. Yeah. It's fascinating.

6:33

We're seeing John long

6:35

before his evolution or maybe

6:38

mid partway through his evolution.

6:40

And at this time in his life, he is not

6:42

ready -- Mhmm. -- to imagine, you

6:44

know, Beth with anybody. He he

6:46

lost his wife recently he's

6:49

sort of struggling with his own grief.

6:52

He's not ready to imagine Beth

6:54

as an adult. And that that takes

6:56

him a while. It takes him a while to come around to

6:58

the idea of Rip and Beth being together. I don't

7:00

know if you remember, but in season one, he also

7:02

says to Beth, quit fucking

7:04

the hell, honey. And then a few

7:06

seasons later, he's calling Rip his

7:08

son, you know. So there's a lot of evolution

7:10

that happens over the events of the

7:12

the show, Yellowstone, that the

7:14

character has not come to yet?

7:17

Yeah. He he

7:20

also drop. There's these one liners.

7:22

I mean, one of the things that Taylor

7:24

does so well is he

7:27

writes these sort of these

7:30

truths that will play out within dialogue,

7:32

and they and they feel

7:34

entirely natural. But when he talks

7:36

about he says, protect the protect

7:39

yourself or the ranch itself. And

7:41

you and you you have no idea how much fighting

7:43

you'll do. It feels like

7:45

a foreshadowing and a looking

7:47

back at the history of the ranch at the

7:49

same time and the dynamic that plays

7:51

out there. And he also says

7:53

another one that I I wrote down,

7:55

which was you will have a home till the day

7:57

you die, or this ranch is no

7:59

more and that is something worth

8:01

fighting for. And I thought that was something,

8:04

again, that not only was really beautiful,

8:06

but is this sort of theme

8:09

that has played out historically and this theme

8:11

that plays out moving forward. Yeah, it's

8:13

funny. This timeline, this sort

8:15

of, you know, young

8:17

JD, young Rip timeline is in

8:19

between. You're totally right. It's this middle

8:21

child timeline. We've seen

8:23

events that happen before it, and we've seen

8:25

events that happen after it. So you're right. Though

8:27

his words kind of both

8:29

prophecy the future and,

8:31

like, sort of r r

8:34

and are a story about everything

8:36

that's brought us to this point. It

8:38

really echoes in both directions forward

8:40

and backwards in time Yeah. And

8:42

then there's this very ominous

8:44

thing ominous moment where

8:46

Rip is about to be branded, John

8:49

steps away and,

8:51

you know, says I know what choice

8:53

you'll make tomorrow. And

8:55

then he's he says to a young rep,

8:57

I didn't I didn't know I had a choice and

8:59

young You ever said to young Lloyd. You always

9:01

have a choice. But, you know,

9:03

basically, if you make one

9:05

choice, you go back to Wyoming where we just

9:07

were and you don't come back. So it's

9:09

it's it's loyalty or death.

9:12

So while we do have this

9:14

sort of I mean, at least I do from within the

9:16

world have this sort of romantic notion

9:18

about this branding thing

9:21

because of what it meant in terms of joining a

9:23

family and that's what it felt like when I was

9:25

within the scene. Certainly

9:27

looking at it from the outside, is

9:30

rather terrifying. I

9:33

mean -- Oh, yeah. -- there's a choice, but it's

9:35

not a choice. No. Because

9:37

otherwise, you know, you you've seen a murder

9:39

Right? So that the equation for the ranch is like,

9:41

okay, you can work for us forever, or

9:43

you are a witness to us doing

9:46

murder and disposing of the body.

9:48

It's the same of choice that Jimmy was presented within

9:50

season one. You know, Rip says, okay, you can accept this

9:52

brand and come work on the Yellowstone, or

9:54

I'll send you to jail for the rest of your

9:56

life. You know, like, it's sort of the like,

9:59

kinda it's a sort of it's

10:01

a barely a choice. Yeah.

10:03

Yeah. You have free will of fate.

10:07

Okay. Well, on to cheer your

10:09

matters, I have

10:11

Jimmy and Emily with thirty seven

10:13

exclamation points written down my notepad

10:15

because when we

10:17

jumped to you, I

10:20

was so overwhelmed with joy. And Jeff, I

10:22

gotta tell you, you are so

10:24

you're such an amazing actor and

10:27

that is that is apparent in every

10:29

single scene that you do, but

10:31

there was something I looked at

10:33

you in these scenes

10:35

that were set at the four sixes,

10:37

and it was a slightly different

10:39

version of the Jimmy that I

10:41

was expecting and the Jimmy that I had known,

10:45

you were

10:48

a cowboy You were a

10:50

four six' cowboy and I

10:52

don't know how you did

10:54

it, but it was

10:56

layered into everything that

10:58

you did and it

11:00

was just fantastic. Jeff,

11:04

looking at some looking at that four

11:06

six' footage, I couldn't

11:08

help but notice that some of the

11:10

faces were faces

11:12

of people that I had met, not on

11:14

set, but at

11:17

rodeo events and whatnot, one of those

11:19

being true. And I was

11:21

wondering if you could talk a

11:23

little bit about all of the four sixes

11:25

cowboys that were

11:27

in those scenes and what

11:30

it was like working with them because I

11:32

don't know if the audience knows this and I and

11:34

I'm not even a hundred percent sure that

11:36

a lot of those people that we

11:39

see in those four sixes uniforms are the

11:41

four sixes cowboys, if not all of them.

11:43

Right? That's exactly

11:45

right. It's it's a real pleasure. Now I've

11:47

gotten to spend some time with those guys. I'm getting to

11:49

know them better. So you're talking

11:51

about True Berson. His mother, Dusty Berson,

11:53

is also around they're the

11:55

wagon bosses of two of these different sort of big

11:57

operations down at the four sixes, but a lot

11:59

of these guys have just become friends. So in

12:01

season four, I had some scenes with Will

12:03

Boedeker, who's an amazing cowboy and

12:05

also an incredible

12:07

musician. Like, all these guys are

12:09

so multifaceted in a

12:11

way that just kinda blows me away

12:13

every time. So this time, we also got to hear

12:15

Will Baudeker his

12:18

music, which was such a gift

12:20

So also down there, we've got Casey Green,

12:22

we've got Brewster, we've got

12:24

basically a whole squad. Zach Peters

12:26

has been taking care of me. It's also, like,

12:29

Yeah. These guys are the

12:31

best in the world at this. They're the sort

12:33

of real life version of

12:35

the bunkhouse boys, you know. They're seal

12:38

team six of cowboys. They're they

12:40

are absolutely incredible.

12:42

And they're also incredibly patient

12:45

with me when they don't need to be. You know, I'm

12:47

an asshole. Coming from out of town, sort

12:49

of messing up their work day,

12:51

functionally speaking, like the days we shoot at the

12:53

sixes are usually them working, and our

12:55

film crew kinda coming in and just

12:57

trying to capture it and throwing me

12:59

into the mix. Let's step

13:01

away for a second and we come back we'll dive

13:03

into the rest of the episode.

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So huge

15:23

episode. We spent that time down in Texas, and we're back

15:25

up to Montana where we

15:27

see the other side of this, which is these cowboys

15:30

getting ready to send this massive

15:33

herd down to Texas? Yeah.

15:35

We know they're going down to the

15:37

Panhandle of Texas. And then

15:39

immediately after that, there's few

15:41

really moving scenes. There's the

15:43

dynamic with John and Monica

15:45

where he basically tells her

15:47

about this other house for

15:49

them to live in and that

15:52

he needs their help. And Monica

15:54

basically just says to him, all you had to do is

15:56

ask in terms of getting what

15:58

you need. I found that to be very

16:00

simple and and poignant.

16:03

And again, out

16:06

of John's mouth, there comes another one

16:08

of those lines that just sort of

16:10

lands on you, which is it was

16:12

something along the lines of sometimes he

16:14

thinks that people have to suffer

16:16

so that they can teach the next

16:18

generation of sufferers how to handle

16:20

it. Maybe God gives us suffering so

16:22

we can pass along the knowledge of how we

16:24

survived it to the next generation of

16:26

sufferers. That's a

16:28

photographic memory right there. Yeah. It

16:30

was so moving. Really? And, you know,

16:32

as as we speak about generations of

16:35

sufferers, what have we been

16:37

watching in the extended Taylor

16:39

verse but generations of

16:41

sufferers. You know, Tate

16:43

is now the youngest generation of

16:45

sufferers, and we've seen him

16:47

face incredible adversity in his, you

16:50

know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen

16:52

years of life, you know, in his young life. It

16:54

really is the Dutton family as

16:56

violence hunts them across

16:58

generations. It really is generations of

17:00

sufferers. And John also John also says

17:02

to Monica, the ranch can't be tates at

17:04

the ranch isn't here. And again, it's one of

17:06

those moments where Taylor has

17:09

in eighteen eighty three

17:12

you know, and throughout the season of Yellowstone,

17:14

in particular, been saying, hey, this

17:16

is how this is the

17:19

seventh generation. This is where the ranch is

17:21

gonna go. This is what's

17:23

going to happen. And it feels like

17:25

we're getting so close

17:27

to it. Yeah. And so there's

17:29

this really, you know, as

17:31

everybody's sort of getting ready to go

17:33

down to Texas, there's these really

17:35

as you said, a series of really lovely

17:37

scenes, including the the next scene between

17:41

John and his son, Casey,

17:43

these two guys who aren't really

17:46

talkers. Right? These guys are doers. They're

17:48

not necessarily the most emotionally

17:51

expressive guys. But we we see this

17:53

sequence where John

17:55

hugs his son and tells him he loves him.

17:57

In in the in the interaction immediately

17:59

following Casey's sister Rip, you'd

18:01

think he's the one leaving, and Rip tells

18:04

him he is. And there was

18:06

something so sad to

18:08

me about saying by without

18:11

actually even being able to say

18:13

goodbye. It's hard for these guys. Yeah. It it

18:15

really like, they're sort of reluctance to say this stuff.

18:17

You know, we've heard it over and over again. In season

18:19

four, RipTels, Jimmy, cowboys don't say

18:21

goodbye. We say see you later until we're in that

18:23

fucking ground. There's

18:25

this kind of quiet, like,

18:28

acceptance of their responsibility. But

18:30

in some ways, I think that's

18:32

also denial. You know, there's this sort

18:34

of inability to

18:36

express these deep feelings

18:38

or perhaps a sort recognition that

18:40

expressing them doesn't necessarily make them

18:42

any easier, doesn't make them go away,

18:44

it doesn't solve the problem. Yeah.

18:48

So complicated what's not complicated

18:51

is is is what John says to Claire in the

18:53

car about how he's gonna handle the Jamie

18:55

situation, which is menace.

18:59

And, Claire says, I don't know how to

19:01

fight with menace. I love

19:03

it when John says this shit that could

19:05

be coming out of the mouth of

19:07

Jacob Harrison Ford's character

19:09

in nineteen twenty three. Could

19:11

easily be coming out of the mouth

19:13

of any of these generations.

19:15

I'll teach you how to fight with menace. It's such a sort

19:17

of the battles they've been waging. They've

19:19

been waging for so so long.

19:23

Yet. But this time, you know, it's a threat coming from inside the house.

19:25

It's a threat coming from inside his own family. And

19:27

as we as we learn, this is like a

19:29

gloves off episode for Jamie, like

19:31

we've never seen before. He's

19:33

using every tool he has to

19:35

tear down his own family. And he's got

19:37

a lot of tools. But before we get there,

19:39

we've also got a really lovely

19:43

sequence in the bunkhouse. We've got

19:45

this beautiful sort of series

19:47

of good buys. We're headed

19:49

down to Texas. There's a lot of

19:52

a lot of talk about how

19:54

cold Texas is in the winter.

19:57

It it's great. Yeah. That was

19:59

a that was sort of a sad moment.

20:02

On set, granted, we have no idea what's

20:04

gonna happen. I'm not just saying that because

20:06

I'm saying we can't tease anything

20:08

audience. Jeff and I

20:10

truly do not know what is

20:12

going to happen? What do you think would tell

20:14

us? Yeah. That was a sad

20:16

moment because in the event

20:18

that we are separated

20:20

for a period of time, while

20:22

we are so happy, Jeff, and I

20:24

cannot say that enough to be able

20:26

to be closer

20:28

and potentially in

20:30

scenes with you, there were some

20:32

good buys that

20:35

that that felt that felt hard.

20:37

Yeah. A lot of good buys. It

20:39

really everybody who's leaving has these relationships,

20:42

you know. Beth and Rip,

20:44

torn apart. Abby

20:46

and Ryan, torn apart.

20:49

Walker and Laramie torn apart. Teeter

20:51

and Colby. Oh my god.

20:53

This has been such a sort of

20:55

juicy, slow burn relationship

20:58

foresee. I I think I think, you know, listening to fans

21:00

on social media, I think

21:02

everybody's hungry for details

21:05

about how this thing works, and we only get these

21:07

little glimpses into it. But this

21:09

episode, a real

21:11

a real left hook

21:14

emotional left hook knocked me on

21:16

my ass. Yeah. It was sad saying

21:18

goodbye to him. I loved

21:20

the teeter I love that Taylor had

21:22

written for teeter to tell Colby

21:24

that she loved him. On the

21:26

inside, I can just tell you that

21:28

it was this very, like, it was this

21:30

very neat experience because

21:32

teeter is a cowboy.

21:34

Teeter is what the

21:36

Ryan character talks about.

21:39

Cowboying will always come first. You

21:41

know, that is the thing. You will go

21:43

anywhere for it. And

21:45

so there's this excitement of

21:47

of being able to do

21:51

some cowboy shit, some real

21:53

intense cowboy shit, and at the

21:55

same there's sadness

21:57

over saying goodbye and and being able to

21:59

love somebody and

22:01

not knowing where it will go.

22:04

And it's and it's just in this moment

22:06

maybe. Howard Bauchner: Yeah. So so, you

22:08

know, speaking of relationships, Sarah

22:12

and Jamie, Cooking along. That sort

22:14

of Machiavellian -- The main --

22:16

Tusa is increasingly frightening.

22:18

I don't wanna dig too much into

22:20

the Jamie stuff in this episode.

22:22

So because we got to talk to Wes Bentley about it

22:24

and why not hear it from the man himself instead

22:26

of hearing me and you rave about

22:28

him. So so

22:31

obviously, let's let's just run through it real quick because we're gonna talk to

22:33

Wes about it too. But that Jamie, you know,

22:35

Beth comes to confront Jamie about having

22:37

brought the impeachment hearing and

22:40

it's been a so far successful

22:42

first step. So we learned that

22:44

the Montana state house voted sixty

22:46

seven to thirty three to bring that impeachment hearing. So now

22:48

John Dunton's gonna have to face this tribunal.

22:51

Beth comes to confront Jamie

22:53

about it. And Jamie, to

22:56

his credit, fights back.

22:58

He has been empowered maybe

23:00

by this relationship with Sarah, maybe by

23:02

just being pushed a little too far

23:05

he fights back in a big way.

23:07

Yeah. This was my

23:10

favorite Jamie Westin he

23:13

was amazing

23:15

and yeah.

23:18

I I whatever.

23:20

I know that I feel like the Jamie Care

23:22

gets so much so much you

23:25

know, some people are so angry at them, but I

23:27

love them. And I

23:29

was so

23:31

relieved that he had this moment where he just let it rip.

23:33

So one of the big revelations

23:35

of this this argument between

23:37

Jamie and Beth this catastrophic argument where

23:40

they're saying things that can't be unsaid, is

23:42

Jamie tells Beth about the

23:44

train station and she's learning about it

23:46

for the first time. Yeah. So then

23:48

she The look on god.

23:50

The look on both face

23:54

was devastating. I know the idea that there's

23:57

stuff that happens at the ranch that she

23:59

doesn't know about is something that you

24:01

know would drive her crazy.

24:03

such a like She she she needs to be

24:05

in control of everything. She needs to understand everything.

24:07

She always needs to be the smartest one in the

24:09

room. And for this big

24:11

revelation, that everybody else knows

24:13

about and she doesn't, you

24:15

know, Casey knows about it, Jamie

24:18

knows about it, Rip knows about it, and

24:21

she's only one who Duttons. That's a

24:23

huge betrayal. So what does she

24:25

do? She, of course, goes

24:27

first thing and confronts her dad

24:29

about it. Says, hey, you know what? Do you have anything to tell me about the train

24:31

station? Yeah.

24:36

And then basically

24:40

says, you know, she it was almost

24:42

repetitive. Jamie knows about

24:44

this. Jamie knows

24:46

about this. So

24:48

the only thing to do with

24:51

Jamie is to then take

24:53

him to the train station. Yeah.

24:56

And it sets up this just

24:58

nasty cliffhanger, which is Jamie

25:00

and Sarah are saying,

25:02

hey, maybe we should get some professionals

25:06

involved to handle this

25:08

problem. And at the

25:10

same time, Beth and JD

25:12

are saying, hey, wait a second.

25:14

Maybe Jamie should go where we

25:16

take people who threaten this

25:18

ranch and need to go away.

25:20

The moment with Jamie and Sarah real quick

25:22

was so interesting to me because it's a moment

25:24

in their relationship that I think is pivotal

25:26

where he actually outpaces

25:29

her in terms of

25:31

mal intent. She's

25:33

sort of been leading him on this

25:35

dark path, and he says, do you know

25:37

anybody? And she's thinking

25:39

defense. And she says you get,

25:41

you know, security detail.

25:43

And he's the one who initiates. I'm not

25:45

talking about defense. I'm talking about OFFENCE.

25:47

I'M TALKING ABOUT KILLING THEM. IT'S

25:50

REALLY FASCINATING. YOU KNOW, WE'VE

25:52

SEEN EFFORTS ON THE

25:54

DUTTON'S LIVES. WE'VE SEEN ATTEMPS

25:56

on John's life, on Casey's

25:59

life, on Beth's life. Mhmm.

26:01

This one, it feels like there's these

26:03

two armies sort of gearing up

26:05

and they're they're pointing the barrels

26:08

of their guns right at each other. So I

26:10

really can't wait to see how that explosive

26:12

conflict plays out in the second

26:14

half of season five. It's a really exciting

26:17

brewing conflict. Also, boy,

26:19

you hate the timing

26:22

of it. Jamie and Sarah

26:24

basically collude to hire a

26:26

hitman right when Rip leaves

26:28

town. Right when Rip gets on

26:30

a truck and heads to

26:32

Texas, lot of John soldiers

26:34

are spread very thin.

26:37

And, you know, it it that's a nasty it's a

26:39

nasty situation. John's spending half his time

26:41

in Helena. He's running around.

26:43

The last time he got his ass shot to

26:45

pieces was because he was in a you know, he

26:48

was driving between two places

26:50

and stopped helping perfectly nice

26:52

lady with a flat tire. He's

26:54

in a very vulnerable position at his best

26:57

soldiers are spread very thin.

26:59

Mhmm. That's all I

27:01

have to say about them. Mhmm. It's not looking

27:03

good. It's not looking good. For

27:05

any buddy. This is a mess. You know, in a civil war,

27:07

you're gonna have casualties on both

27:09

sides. And I'm really curious

27:12

to see this thing plays

27:14

out. And, you know, I'm kinda grateful that

27:16

we're in a whole different state.

27:18

It sounds like the state of Montana is about to

27:20

turn into a fucking you

27:22

know, shooting gallery. Yeah. I'm

27:24

really glad we're in Texas. Give me the

27:26

cold. Give me the cold. We're no

27:28

competing squads of hitmen are shooting

27:30

each other. It's a

27:32

great time to be in Texas and it's a great

27:34

time not to be a member of a family.

27:36

It's just great.

27:39

Okay. I'm very excited to speak

27:41

with Wes. Let's get into it with the

27:43

man himself. Sponsorship

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com. Jen

29:56

and I feel

29:59

so lucky, so blessed to

30:01

have with us in the studio today. Our

30:03

dear friend, an actor I've been a fan

30:06

of for years, and I feel so lucky

30:08

to be able to call a friend for

30:10

about five years now. Mhmm. We've

30:13

got the infamous Jamie

30:15

Dutton. It's Wes Bentley. Wes, thank you so much

30:17

for being

30:17

here. Hi Wes. Thanks for having me

30:20

guys. We got to speak

30:22

last year on this podcast. After

30:24

season four aired, we got to

30:26

sort of have a conversation catching the audience

30:28

up to your experience of working on the

30:30

first four seasons of Yellowstone. I

30:33

I think of this season as a

30:36

fascinating journey for Jamie. It

30:38

feels like a bit of aside

30:41

to Jamie, we've never seen before.

30:43

Will you talk a little bit about the experience

30:45

of working on season five and what's been

30:47

different than the past four years? Well,

30:49

a lot has been different. By the end

30:51

of the the half season, it's, you

30:53

know, before it it's been

30:55

a lot of taking it for Jamie and

30:58

for Wes as Jamie, you know,

31:00

taking on a lot, bring, you know, just

31:02

pile on the weights and deal

31:04

with it. And it's been

31:06

a hard you know, it's been as I've talked about before, it's really tricky. You know,

31:09

it's hard as an actor to just

31:11

continually do that for years and

31:14

despite all your instincts fighting it

31:16

and just as a human

31:18

being. And so this

31:20

season that's that you see the beginning

31:22

of the change of that. And and actually,

31:24

in a deeper way than I even read

31:26

initially when I first read the scripts and saw

31:28

where we were heading, it's I

31:30

think there's more depth to it than just Jamie's getting

31:33

used again. I think

31:35

Jamie sees an opportunity. And

31:37

so there's a piece of Jamie that's always been there,

31:39

but in benefit to the Duttons, which is

31:41

his schemes. And now he's gonna

31:43

use those schemes possibly

31:45

against the Dutton's. So it's it's

31:47

an interesting

31:48

rebound. It's I don't think it's a totally conscious

31:50

one maybe by him. You know, this is

31:52

he's a bit stunned after everything that happened at the

31:55

end of last season and having to

31:57

you know, kill his own father and, you know,

31:59

and try to go back to the dutins and try

32:01

to be what they need him to be. And I

32:03

think he's in a weird

32:05

like state, you know, half a live, half

32:08

half just numb. And

32:10

so, you know, I think he sees an opportunity

32:13

in Sarah and

32:15

in market equities and

32:17

in people who he thinks

32:19

see his usefulness.

32:22

Do you feel like his having

32:24

to kill his own dad sort of

32:26

laid the groundwork for that mental

32:29

state? And then

32:31

Sarah Atwood coming in is

32:33

sort of the engine that

32:36

he

32:36

could, you know, hook his car

32:38

too, so to speak, that sort of propels this whole movement

32:41

forward? I definitely do. I

32:43

think, you know, we talked a lot

32:45

about Beth's moment

32:47

for where she started to hate

32:50

Jamie, and and and we've lived

32:52

through that, and that is a a

32:54

horrible thing. But this I think is

32:56

Jamie's you know, moments where he

32:58

realizes, oh, I he and whatever love I

33:00

have for her, hoped to have for

33:02

her, forever, and he did for Beth. I think

33:04

he had more hope for that them even

33:07

best ever did. And

33:09

her forcing him to do that was that

33:11

moment of she not only doesn't love me

33:13

and never will she hates me once

33:15

we did for real. And I think Jamie,

33:17

it wasn't fully it wasn't

33:19

clicking when Jamie that she's really

33:22

after him. For all these years until that moment. And that

33:24

trauma in doing that, I think, is

33:26

the final break for him with

33:27

her. And

33:28

now I think if part of him wants

33:30

her, you know, wants some to

33:33

to to to pay

33:34

back, I guess. He wants some kind of pay back and maybe

33:36

more.

33:36

I think it has it

33:38

has broken something in

33:41

him further. Than was already broken.

33:43

When we last spoke last season, I talked a

33:45

lot about this idea

33:47

of repression. Like so many of the characters

33:49

on this show, it's about this expression.

33:51

It's about this release.

33:53

And Jamie seems so

33:56

under control. He seems so

33:58

buttoned up. Repression has been a

34:00

sort of necessity for

34:02

him, for his entire life.

34:04

He's had to repress his

34:06

impulses in service of this family.

34:08

So talk about how that relates so

34:10

so specifically, with Sarah because kinda

34:12

got Jamie World this season. You have

34:14

all of these incredible scenes with

34:16

Sarah --

34:17

Yeah. -- with Dawn.

34:19

Talk about the freedom that that

34:22

relationship offers this character

34:24

the the experience of of doing those

34:26

scenes. Is there a kind of release

34:28

a catharsis that Jamie's never had before? Definitely. And I

34:31

think it comes

34:31

across in the scene where he is

34:34

sharing with

34:36

Sarah that

34:38

what

34:38

he really wanted to be. And Jamie, like you said,

34:40

he's been buried under what

34:42

John wants him to be and whatever

34:44

obligation he felt to to

34:47

Beth and to his brothers. So whatever Jamie is and whoever Jamie

34:49

is, he has no idea. And it seems

34:51

to be that Sarah starts to

34:53

coax that out.

34:56

That she's not just, like, sleeping with him. pulling out

34:58

this guy that she can

35:00

see buried under him and Don

35:03

is incredible. Don brought more than

35:06

what's on the page, and there's a lot on the

35:08

page to work

35:08

with. And Don, she's an incredible actor.

35:10

I was really excited when we started

35:13

kicking it off because I saw

35:14

something there to really latch onto, and and

35:16

she was bringing something different. And for for

35:19

me and for Jamie. And so

35:22

you know yeah. I I was discovering, you know, as we halfway

35:24

through the shooting, I was at home and I actually

35:26

had a lot of time off as

35:28

we went through all the stuff we

35:31

had to go through shooting the show. And I was just sitting in this, like, in the

35:33

middle of the woods by myself for a couple

35:35

weeks. And I had that gave

35:37

me time to really ruminate on

35:39

these scenes that I found very challenging because

35:41

they were opening parts of Jamie. I hadn't

35:43

opened yet. So, you know, I wasn't prepared for that.

35:45

And I really was nervous. I wanted to get it

35:47

right. I wanted to meet Taylor and go beyond

35:50

him if I

35:50

could. And so luckily, I had those dead time and

35:52

I just sat there and it just was hitting

35:54

me. How much was underneath all

35:57

that stuff that I've been playing that James has been playing

35:59

he's

35:59

been playing for longer. And and so

36:02

yeah. You know, Don, Sarah,

36:05

the way she's doing, it's not like your typical story of being manipulated and used because

36:07

I don't know if it's that clear. I

36:09

think Jamie knows

36:11

what's going Right? I mean, he's been through enough of these. He's smart

36:14

guy. He

36:14

sees what's coming.

36:15

Now it's like, well, maybe I

36:17

wanna do that. There's this

36:19

really amazing moment in that scene because when Jeff was

36:22

talking, I was thinking about that exact same

36:24

scene. And you I

36:26

almost look like

36:28

something that I I don't even know if you're aware of

36:30

how how much you did

36:32

it, but Sarah

36:35

says to you your father's jealous

36:37

of you. And you see I'm gonna

36:40

talk about Jamie, like he's a real person and you

36:42

don't play him. I

36:44

love it. Jamie

36:46

lights up and hooks

36:49

onto that in a

36:51

way and it's and then you

36:54

I'm gonna talk about, you know, you, like,

36:56

leaned in and you, like, came closer to

36:58

her. And it was such this moment I get

37:00

goosebumps talking about

37:02

it because I've had moments in my life where I'm so

37:04

desperate for someone's approval

37:06

and they will not give it

37:08

to me. And I

37:10

just can't get out from

37:12

underneath them. And that moment

37:14

when somebody says, you

37:16

don't need to get out from underneath them,

37:18

you've already trans sended

37:20

them or your own, you know, or

37:22

the fact that they're just jealous of you or

37:24

whatever. And it is this moment where you're

37:26

like, you're free. It's like the

37:28

ceiling's been taken off. That's

37:30

a great insight. I'm glad it came across. III

37:32

you know, you don't know these things and it was

37:35

one of those

37:35

that was one of the scenes where everything Dom was

37:38

doing was was doing

37:40

that. She was delivering in such a

37:42

way that was, like, cracking open those things. Like

37:44

you said, we've all had I think most people

37:46

had that moment where like, yeah, they're buried under

37:48

something. And finally, someone sets you free by going,

37:50

you're imagining that. It's the

37:52

opposite. Yeah. And you're

37:55

mad lube. And for Jamie, that's beyond more than

37:57

just his ego. That can mean

37:59

his whole livelihood. Everything he

38:01

wanted, which is to really

38:04

be away from them and be powerful in his

38:06

own right was just sitting

38:07

there, waiting because, oh,

38:09

the guy I was afraid of is

38:11

actually afraid of me Oh, I'm

38:13

strong. Oh, I'm I'm

38:16

smart. Right. If

38:19

I may briefly, Step

38:22

outside the world of Yellowstone.

38:24

If I dare, step outside the

38:26

world of Yellowstone West. What's up, man? How are

38:28

you doing? What are you excited about? I

38:30

want people to know people know you

38:32

as Jamie, and people have a

38:34

relationship to you as Jamie. And I guess I just also

38:36

wanna make sure that the audience

38:38

out there gets to know and love

38:40

you the way that we do as a person

38:42

of many

38:43

dimensions. Yes. All two of them.

38:46

III like acting and I

38:48

like soccer. No one was hearing me talk about

38:50

soccer, but yes, I love soccer. I'm I'm surprised when I meet fans or

38:52

people who know me that they they are surprised

38:54

that I smile and laugh and make jokes.

38:57

But it's also one of the best parts

39:00

of this job because I realize I'm doing my

39:02

job if they think that because that's that is

39:04

me most time. I love to

39:06

you know, I I started enacting

39:08

as a loving improv comedy. So

39:10

we did I did improv competitions with

39:12

my with some buddies. They were really good and funnier than me. But that, you

39:14

know, I my first thrill was making people

39:16

laugh. I love doing that with Seth, you know,

39:18

having a good laugh with everybody, especially

39:22

on that. On a heavy day

39:24

if it's not too distracting, too too just just to let remind ourselves

39:26

that we're people and all that.

39:30

And But yeah. Man, I don't know. I mean, we also I love

39:32

being a dad, you know, like, I have two

39:34

great kids who are at great ages, twelve

39:36

and eight, and they're very

39:38

active. And I'm very

39:40

active. I get out and I play soccer a

39:42

lot. I mean, a lot of different people

39:44

over the world. I don't I I tend to play

39:46

pickup games wherever I go

39:48

just because it's not

39:50

just soccer, it's culture too, it's neighborhoods, it's families,

39:52

it's all of that.

39:56

So Yeah. Again, I mean, those are

39:58

a couple of my things. I love being active, and IIIII

40:01

think it's just surprising when people've seen me

40:03

actually laugh and smile and make a joke.

40:05

So many Jin was talking earlier

40:07

about the kind of disconnect

40:10

between Teeter and Jin.

40:12

And how strange. It is which is huge, otherwise.

40:14

Yeah. People sometimes don't recognize

40:16

her because, you know, it's it's such

40:18

a transformative

40:20

performance and Jamie's the same

40:22

way. Like, the scowl and the

40:24

furrowed brow is is the

40:26

the way that that character change

40:29

holds when I see you outside the world of that, it is you you're you

40:31

have such a sort of effervescent

40:34

lightness to you, you know? Oh, thanks,

40:36

man. You too. YouTube, but you don't have

40:38

to do all the scaling. You can bring it to the work.

40:40

I I just get to be a fucking idiot

40:42

all the time. That's fun,

40:43

though. That's fun.

40:45

Yeah. And by the way, Jen, you're amazing. I love

40:47

watching. Both of you are amazing,

40:50

but, you know, you're both

40:52

so transformative And, Jefferson,

40:54

what a path for Jemmy that I think

40:56

people are just loving and my brother, by the

40:58

way, I've told you this before. He's you're still his favorite

41:00

character, and I'm trying so hard to win him

41:02

over, but he just doesn't like me as much as

41:04

you. And, you know, and my life

41:06

really likes Rip. You know, my

41:08

girlfriend's favorite character Rip, my mom's favorite

41:10

character's Rip,

41:12

my grandma, you know, who calls me to check-in on

41:14

rip. Oh, my my nieces well,

41:16

one of my nieces told me that Beth's

41:20

her hero. Which is a

41:22

really complicated feeling for Wes and Jamie to go through.

41:27

Wes Yay. West,

41:30

besides, I mean, soccer and being

41:32

hilarious, and I can vouch that you

41:34

are actually genuinely one of the funniest

41:36

people on that in the whole

41:38

three times, we've gotten to be in the same room together while we go off

41:40

to shoot, yeah, like, different scenes.

41:44

When I ran into you in Hamilton

41:46

this year, we were talking about horseback

41:49

riding. And

41:52

I was I I don't

41:54

know if the fans know that you came

41:56

into the show with more writing

41:58

prowess than a lot of the

42:00

other

42:01

actors. And the audience never gets to see

42:04

that. I mean Never.

42:06

And it's kind of

42:08

like a point of con like,

42:11

I grew up watching westerns with my dad.

42:13

I I wanted to do westerns. Like,

42:15

that was kind of one of my goals. I mean, that's

42:17

things change, but So when I you

42:19

know, and and especially with Taylor's stuff, I was

42:22

really excited about Taylor's stuff before I met him

42:24

and had asked to work on his

42:26

thing. And then, yeah, you wanna be in a western with

42:28

Taylor shared Yes, I do. Where's my horse?

42:30

What? A suit? A

42:31

pen? Their

42:34

riding horses? Because,

42:36

you

42:37

know, we went off to Calvary camp and, you you

42:39

know, a few of the guys never rode and

42:41

and and I had horses and

42:43

I rode. And, yeah,

42:45

Jeff was there was one of them, but

42:47

you're not supposed to have been written. So Alright. It's so funny, but I also I feel like this

42:49

is so dramaturgically valid

42:52

because you

42:54

poor Wes is

42:56

stuck. Just like Jamie

42:58

is kind of ripped away from the ranch

43:00

sent off to Harvard Law when he's a

43:02

kid, kept

43:04

away from this beautiful cathartic, you

43:06

know, how much real estate in

43:08

Yellowstone is spent talking about the

43:10

beautiful experience

43:12

riding out in nature. And Jamie never gets

43:14

to touch it. Jamie is sort of,

43:16

oh, no. Canela is a cage

43:20

know like that. I get to read these amazing scenes where you

43:22

guys just wax poetic about, yeah,

43:24

like he said, my tan and the beauty I'm

43:26

flipping to do is pages like, wow, that's

43:28

gonna be a beautiful scene, and

43:30

I turn it. And all I see is someone's dragging me down the hallway,

43:33

kicking me in the face, and I'm

43:35

crying. Oh, okay. Into

43:39

your shit bro. Please. Jamie sits sad.

43:42

No snacks on set that day.

43:44

No other beneficial.

43:46

Would they just keep piling on to make it miserable? Anywhere is an incredibly

43:48

tight tie. You know what? It

43:52

barely swallow. too

43:54

is these horses are some of the best horses

43:56

I will ever get a chance to ride

43:58

because they are they're not

44:00

just Wrangler, set horses. Right? You guys

44:02

know, you're the ones who have to ride them. They

44:04

are award winning, like,

44:06

crazy trained horses. And

44:10

so That made it especially exciting. Especially we were, like, learning how to cut.

44:12

Like, I got really into cutting. I

44:14

thought I was pretty good at it. It seemed like

44:16

they said I was good to the

44:18

point where I was telling Jim when we ran it to each other, I was like, I maybe go do

44:20

this competition. It didn't work out for me. But

44:22

I love all that stuff. Yeah. I was

44:24

really I it really bumped. And

44:27

to the point where I won't even go ride, you know, on my off days

44:29

because it just don't wanna get the hopes up or whatever. That you

44:32

know, this

44:34

might change. Think

44:36

my ship sailed though. Wes, as

44:38

always, it is an absolute joy to

44:41

speak with you. We feel so

44:43

so grateful for your time. You're one of my favorite actors

44:45

in the world. So thanks for five years of

44:48

this incredible performance. Thanks for five years

44:50

of your friendship. I I treasure

44:52

it dearly.

44:54

Thank you so much. Yeah. That's really nice to you. West Bentley, you

44:56

are one of my favorite people and

44:58

thank you so much for taking the

45:02

time. To talk to us today,

45:04

and I can say, from me and the entire

45:06

Yellowstone Family, we cannot

45:08

wait to see what happens next.

45:12

It really is starting to line up. Like like, III

45:15

don't know how everybody could survive

45:17

this. It's starting to

45:19

feel like somebody very close to us is not

45:21

gonna survive this. But all is

45:23

not lost while we wait for

45:25

the second half of Yellowstone season five. I

45:27

am so stoked to dig into the

45:30

journey of nineteen twenty

45:32

three and the only

45:34

official Yellowstone Yellowstone is

45:36

gonna be right here with you the whole

45:38

way. That's right. So

45:40

listeners do not forget to subscribe

45:42

and listen to the official Yellowstone

45:44

Podcast on Apple Podcasts,

45:46

Spotify, or wherever you

45:49

get your podcasts. See you next

45:51

time. Thanks for being here. Bye,

45:53

guys. Yellowstone Podcast is a production of

45:56

101 studios and Paramount.

45:58

This episode was produced by

46:00

Scott Stone. Brandon Gretis

46:02

is the head of audio for 101

46:04

studios. Steve Razis is the executive vice

46:06

president of the Paramount Global

46:08

podcast group. Special thanks to Meghan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall,

46:10

Ainsley Roseto, Andrew Sarnow,

46:12

Jason Reed, and Whitney Baxter from Paramount,

46:16

and of course David Glasser, David Hukin, and

46:18

Michelle Newman from 101 studios.

46:26

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