0:02

Hello

0:04

everyone and welcome back to the

0:07

One Thing Podcast. I am personally

0:09

so incredibly excited to have Dr.

0:11

James Dodie here. He's an inventor,

0:13

an entrepreneur, a philanthropist, a neurosurgeon

0:15

who has been on the faculty

0:17

of Stanford University School of Medicine

0:19

since 1997 in the neurosurgery department

0:21

as a professor. He's a New

0:24

York Times best-selling author of Into

0:26

the Magic Shop and here

0:28

to talk to us today about his newest book,

0:30

My Magic. Welcome James, we're so thrilled to have

0:32

you. Well it's wonderful to

0:34

be here and thank you

0:36

for having me, I appreciate it. And

0:39

also thank you for the kind words about Into

0:41

the Magic Shop. You know, it's amazing,

0:43

I think that book came out in

0:45

2015 and not only was

0:47

it a New York Times best-seller, it's been a best-seller

0:49

in eight countries and which

0:52

is quite amazing, 36 languages.

0:54

And actually what is most amazing,

0:57

at least according to younger people,

0:59

is that the Korean

1:01

pop music band BTS used it as

1:03

the basis for their third album and

1:05

there's a song called Magic Shop. So

1:08

that's actually my only claim to fame

1:11

in some parts of the world. I

1:13

was just about to say, Dave, of

1:15

all the incredible accomplishments that you list

1:17

on your very impressive resume, did you

1:20

ever think that that one would be

1:22

on there? No.

1:26

But listen, I'm thankful and you know

1:28

they're an interesting band

1:30

because they're so thoughtful, they care about

1:33

people's mental health, they're very supportive and

1:35

pretty much everything they do is around

1:38

trying to help people navigate in

1:40

an incredibly challenging

1:42

world at this point in

1:44

time. Yeah, very much so. I

1:46

told James before we hopped on and I

1:48

was telling Chris earlier today, I was like,

1:50

I am so excited for this interview because

1:52

I read, I was right, I thought it

1:54

was about 10 years ago that I read

1:56

Into the Magic Shop, so almost 10 years,

1:58

that I read the Magic Shop And it

2:01

was at a stage of my life where. I

2:03

feel that's when the manifestation conversation

2:06

really started when I get up

2:08

Popularized and I always sort of

2:10

perceived to be like. A

2:13

little bit. Whoa. Whoa. When it's not

2:15

real and you get what you want

2:17

by working hard and are and I

2:19

feel like I owe a debt you

2:21

James because your book really did change

2:23

my life. I don't see that flippantly.

2:25

it's truly changed my life and and

2:28

changed my perspective on manifestation and and

2:30

the scientific and and medical approach that

2:32

you think. Threat is just. Such.

2:34

An interesting reason recruiter would think that when up with

2:36

that's not what we're here to talk about. They were

2:38

recruited right as my matter which I was. Just

2:41

telling him I can't wait to get my hands. Lines

2:43

and because I'm sure all of it as much by

2:45

did into the fabric softener thought the little bit about

2:47

the Vulcan what and what brought the one on. Actually

2:51

it's interesting and and maybe it's true

2:53

of any one who writes a book

2:55

that because the first book one obviously

2:57

cover sort of my growing up, my

2:59

challenge and childhood but also my life

3:02

as a neurosurgeon and part but it

3:04

also includes meditation, what we call and

3:06

template a practice and then it also

3:08

includes neuroscience and so fast they because

3:10

there's a subset of people say you

3:12

know I bought this book. I thought

3:15

you'd talk more about neurosurgery. then there's

3:17

another group about guns. I thought this

3:19

we gonna talk. About Meditation Center

3:21

semester. So sort

3:24

of funny. House or what

3:26

resonates with people are but

3:28

one part of the book

3:30

ah actually or discusses ah

3:32

of. Mindfulness. And

3:35

how I learned the practice

3:37

but specific to this conversation

3:39

manifestation. And maybe I

3:41

should just back little bit and

3:44

gives some of the listeners. ah

3:46

but about my background I grew

3:48

up and very challenging circumstances in

3:50

Lancaster, California. And

3:52

my father was an alcoholic. My mother

3:54

had a stroke when I was a

3:57

child, was partially paralyzed, had a seizure

3:59

disorder, And unfortunately, chronically

4:01

depressed which resulted her attempting

4:03

suicide multiple times. we were

4:05

on public assistance, were evicted

4:07

from different residences. So course

4:09

this is not ah a

4:11

be childhood that any of

4:13

us would sign up for

4:15

necessarily a but ah. At

4:17

the age of twelve, ah,

4:19

I was feeling a sense

4:21

of hopelessness and despair and

4:23

I ended up. After

4:26

of my parents out got into an

4:28

argument I got of my bicycle. And

4:30

road my bicyclists far as fast as well

4:32

as possible as I and have to deal

4:35

with that but I ended up at a

4:37

strip mall where there was a i'm a

4:39

magic shop and I had an interest in

4:41

magic but long story short I walked in

4:44

and I'm sure you have met people who

4:46

they're very presence is this radiance about them

4:48

and they have a smile that just in

4:50

call shoe and they're. Kind,

4:53

their thoughtful, Of.

4:56

Of this is the way this lady

4:58

was and we began talking and it

5:01

turned out she knew nothing about magic.

5:03

in fact as he was the owners

5:05

mother and she was minding the store

5:07

a few well while he ran an

5:10

errand. But this conversation continued on in

5:12

one of the reasons it continued on

5:14

was because ah she created an environment

5:16

of what we call psychological safety. And

5:20

I felt very comfortable at her. I

5:22

didn't feel she was looking down at

5:24

me, I felt that she was really

5:26

interested in what I had to say

5:28

and so ah I opened up to

5:30

her and she actually ask some questions

5:33

which normally. To. Be honest with you,

5:35

I would not have answered, but I did

5:37

in this case and after about fifteen or

5:39

twenty minutes you said Mrs had you know I

5:41

really like you. I think I could teach

5:43

you something. That.

5:46

Could really help you. And I'm

5:48

here for another six weeks. and

5:50

if you come every day, ah,

5:52

I'll spend time with you. And

5:54

it turned out she taught me

5:56

what Ah is now known as

5:58

a mindfulness practice. And

6:01

I didn't realize at the time

6:03

that my experience of. And

6:06

at. Home was essentially living in

6:08

a war zone, completely chaotic, completely

6:10

unpredictable, never knew what was going

6:12

to happen and as a result

6:14

my muscles were tents and I

6:16

could never focus because I never

6:19

knew what was going to happen

6:21

next. So she taught me a

6:23

technique to do a body survey

6:25

or relax the body at technique

6:27

as allowed me to focus and

6:29

then ah also one which was

6:31

a self compassion technique because I

6:33

was very critical towards myself and

6:35

what I realize was that. When

6:37

one at it, when an individual

6:39

is critical of themselves, they're so

6:41

often hyper critical of others, but

6:43

usually were more critical of ourselves

6:45

and anyone else. A

6:47

long story short, she taught me

6:49

this practice. It changed my view of

6:52

the world. It made me see

6:54

that everyone is suffering. and then she

6:56

taught me something else. I was really

6:58

critical and that's about what we're talking

7:01

about today, which was a manifestation

7:03

technique. And

7:05

ah, of course, Ah was young

7:07

at that time. But as you

7:10

know, this idea of manifestation has

7:12

been put into the context of

7:14

woo woo and pseudo. And

7:17

people give these flowery discussions about

7:20

the law of attraction, them, how

7:22

the universe is going to intervene

7:24

and you just ask for it

7:26

and it's going to happen. And.

7:29

Part. Of the problem with that

7:32

is that when we look

7:34

outside ourselves to create could

7:36

have caught the perfect life

7:38

or make us happy. Unfortunately,

7:40

it's extraordinarily disappointing. And

7:42

what I found that I did was I

7:44

did make a list of all the things

7:46

I wanted, but they were all about me.

7:49

And. Unfortunately, this is the narrative of

7:51

the secret which became so popular. What

7:54

do you want? Well, I want to

7:56

live in a big mansion. I want

7:58

to live in a. Ah,

8:00

in this beautiful place, I

8:03

want a porsche, Mercedes or

8:05

whatever. And and then if

8:07

you just think about that

8:09

and over and over it's

8:11

magically going to happen. Well,

8:14

there are several problems with that. Ah,

8:17

actually the first sentence of the books

8:20

as. The. Universe doesn't

8:22

give a about you. Love.

8:24

That. And. Tests.

8:27

And the reality is because

8:29

the universe has no to

8:31

give. Ah, and what's unfortunate

8:34

is especially in Western capitalist

8:36

society, there is this narrative

8:38

that success which translates in

8:40

the money power position therefore

8:42

equals happiness. And that's what

8:44

I chased after am I'm

8:46

She had me actually make

8:48

a list. And. Sadly, although

8:50

not surprisingly, at the age of twelve,

8:53

I said i want to live in

8:55

a mansion, I want a Porsche. I

8:57

had a friend's father had a Rolex.

8:59

I was very impressed with that. I

9:01

said I want to Rolex cetera et

9:03

cetera, and I actually got all of

9:06

those things. But the

9:08

problem was that it was

9:10

all about getting external affirmation

9:12

that I was ok. That.

9:14

Somehow if I did these things

9:16

that people tell me how great

9:18

I was, the emptiness or insecurity

9:21

or the same that I had

9:23

would magically go away and I

9:25

would be incredibly happy. And you

9:27

know, here I was having all

9:29

these things. I had a home

9:31

overlooking the ocean, the Newport Beach.

9:33

I. Had a penthouse in San

9:36

Francisco. I had a Porsche Ferrari.

9:39

If be of Dubuque, a Red Rover

9:41

of or Sadie's at this private crowds

9:43

at in this building San Francisco that

9:45

you know had it's own private elevator

9:47

to my penthouse. I had a villain

9:50

Florence I was flying around a private

9:52

jets, I was single at the time,

9:54

I was dating beautiful women and shockingly

9:56

even though my. All my friends

9:58

told me how fortunate I was and. The great

10:00

I was, I was never more

10:02

miserable and my entire life. And

10:06

and the reason was because

10:08

it was all about me.

10:11

And the problem is when it's all about you.

10:14

And you think in those terms

10:16

it's because you have an empty

10:18

nest or an insecurity or a

10:20

fear. And a problem with

10:22

that is that when you're carrying that. Your

10:26

brain networks which are necessary

10:28

to interact or don't function

10:30

as well Because we function

10:32

best when we feel safe,

10:34

when we feel comfortable with

10:36

ourselves. and what happens is

10:38

the shifts you. From. Engage

10:41

in the sympathetic nervous system which

10:43

of course you know is associated

10:45

with the flight five or fear

10:48

response to engagement of the parasympathetic

10:50

nervous system which is where you

10:53

feel safe, where you feel of

10:55

that, and also it's the place

10:57

where you have access to different

11:00

brain networks and specifically one is

11:02

your Executive control function which has

11:05

access to memory experiences and that's

11:07

also associated with increased productivity and

11:09

creativity. But anyway, when

11:11

you're able to shift over to

11:13

engagement of your parasympathetic nervous system,

11:16

everything works are better. Now I

11:18

can see I'm continued to talk.

11:20

You probably have some questions I'd

11:22

love to have. A

11:25

you can see thought it might be perfectly happy

11:27

name Id as I do what it said. I

11:29

wanted to ask about the somebody brought it up

11:32

because really open the book of this because we're

11:34

going to put our production team to work early

11:36

with some editing. but let the universe doesn't give

11:38

a about you and I think there's so. Much

11:40

power in that statement if you're hoping to

11:43

dig in and a little bit on that.

11:45

I think it's it's it does what they

11:47

is. it's were I take away from that

11:49

is V zoom out enough like nothing really

11:51

matters. like a little Carl Sagan pale blue.kind

11:53

of perspective of like hey, look like this.

11:56

Universe doesn't have any the give in

11:58

the first place. And. New their

12:00

clinic. The natural response you see or maybe

12:02

some feel right away as like the ego

12:05

in the. Date: That connection to

12:07

some divine intervention or something that's out

12:09

there isn't some dumb luck, whatever he

12:11

has, but. I. Would I would I

12:13

feel is that there you have to kind of went. Go.

12:16

To grab back on and like you have first

12:18

like go in the new when you do. With.

12:21

What I feel as it does, the extreme

12:23

authorship and in what you can create. I'm

12:25

curious. fun if I'm getting the right message

12:28

from the premise. Their. Know.

12:30

Chris are completely wrong. No, No,

12:35

actually that's exactly right and it's interesting

12:37

you put it in that terminology because

12:39

again people think they're often times if

12:42

they make something out there are happy.

12:44

their life for all of a sudden

12:46

be was perfect and they'll get everything

12:48

they want and it just doesn't work

12:51

that way. It's funny. I have a

12:53

conversation with Jon Hamm the actor a

12:55

recently and he said at best the

12:58

universe is it different which is. Probably

13:01

true. Ah, but getting back to

13:03

what you said, Chris was. Ah,

13:07

When. People look outside of

13:09

themselves for either happiness

13:11

or satisfaction. Or actually,

13:13

ah, making something happened

13:15

in their lives. Ah,

13:17

it doesn't work. Because.

13:21

People. Forget the immense amount

13:23

of power you have within

13:25

yourself. To manifest. And

13:27

this has nothing to do with

13:30

Woo woo. It has nothing to

13:32

do with pseudoscience. That's not to

13:34

say that some of the principles

13:36

that have been promoted can be

13:38

helpful, but the problem is when

13:40

it is a self absorbed, been

13:42

or self absorbed in narrative about

13:44

what I want, it diminishes the

13:47

likelihood of you getting those things.

13:50

I and it also hurts you. And

13:52

what I mean by that is. Ah,

13:56

With. People are constantly focused on

13:58

what I want or how important

14:00

there are they are or how

14:03

their ego drives them. It actually

14:05

separates them from others and we

14:07

know as a species we evolved

14:09

to to connect and to care

14:11

for others. And in

14:14

fact, if you look at our

14:16

evolution as a species, we're one

14:18

of the few mammal said doesn't

14:20

a run off into the jungle

14:22

or the forest or swim away.

14:25

Ah, we ah have to care

14:27

for aspirin for well over a

14:29

decade and that requires time and

14:31

resources. So we have actually been

14:33

given a genetic imperative. That

14:36

drives us to care and that what

14:38

is that one? Your reward. It. You're.

14:41

Rewarded by the release of certain

14:43

neurotransmitters and one that I'm sure

14:45

everyone is probably heard of his

14:47

oxytocin and when this is released

14:49

into your brain, it stimulates your

14:51

reward and pleasure centers. So that

14:53

drives you to care and it

14:55

you to care enough if your

14:57

child is hungry, if they're in

14:59

pain, ah, if they're cold, Whatever

15:02

it is, you are driven to

15:04

help them and that is the

15:06

underlying. Reality of

15:08

our existence as a species.

15:11

And so when it's a self

15:14

centered. Sort of of

15:16

perspective. These things that kick

15:18

in when you care such

15:20

as this parasympathetic nervous system

15:22

actually are, is shut down

15:24

and you're executive control areas

15:26

which allowed to make thoughtful

15:28

decisions are doesn't work as

15:30

effectively, You're not as creative,

15:32

you're not as productive. And

15:34

the reason that gets important

15:36

here is because every time

15:38

you make a negative comment

15:40

about yourself, it's as if

15:42

your place in a brick.

15:45

And building a wall which

15:47

gets higher and darker, you

15:49

are creating your own prison

15:51

If you're able to change

15:54

your perspective and look outside

15:56

of yourself and look at

15:58

others and how you can

16:01

be of service that actually

16:03

makes your brain ah centers

16:05

work their best. That kicks

16:07

in the parasympathetic nervous system.

16:10

And it's it's. incredibly important

16:12

because one. There's.

16:14

A difference between what a

16:16

young people person and even

16:18

know the person thinks they

16:21

want versus what they need.

16:24

If you're looking through the lens of

16:26

I, I I, you get into this

16:28

narrative. Well, I need a big house

16:30

to impress people. As and people

16:32

were like me I need a fancy

16:34

sports car so people will look at

16:37

me and sadly there a lot of

16:39

people in our society coup bleed this

16:41

narrative and their lot of people who

16:43

have set to their lives around this

16:45

narrative. And it's sad to watch because.

16:49

They say that they'll get some

16:51

sort of external affirmation from people

16:53

who want to be like them,

16:56

and that's what they live for.

16:58

Yet, there's some of the most

17:00

saddest unhappy people in the world,

17:02

and I've known many of these

17:05

people. Now, that's not to say

17:07

that there is anything wrong with

17:09

live in a good life in

17:12

the context of having things, but

17:14

if having thanks is the sole

17:16

driver of your behavior, you are

17:18

ultimately. Going to be very happy. Now.

17:22

I mentioned brain networks. So.

17:24

They're basically for brain networks that

17:27

are critically important to us manifesting.

17:30

And one of those is

17:32

what we call our default

17:34

mode network And this is

17:37

what happens when our mind

17:39

wanders and it's related to

17:41

our self referential identity and

17:43

also determining what we want.

17:46

But the critical part of that

17:48

are three others. One. Is

17:50

what we call the salient network. The.

17:53

Other is the attention network

17:55

and then the last one

17:57

is the Executive control network.

18:00

And these are typically called the

18:02

the Flat Ladder three of the

18:04

task Positive Networks. Because

18:07

when they work in conjunction, what happens

18:09

is if you want to manifest something.

18:14

It. Has to get into your

18:17

subconscious. Now all of

18:19

us are manifest in every day, right? We

18:21

say I want this, I want that but

18:23

were like a. A A. Person.

18:27

Who? It's their first day and and

18:29

the weight room and they want to

18:31

live five hundred pounds right? You know

18:33

you may go up there trying list,

18:35

but if you don't know how to

18:38

do it if you haven't been trained,

18:40

if you don't have the self awareness

18:42

and inside you're going to fail or

18:44

you're not going to do it very

18:46

efficiently and potentially going to hurt yourself.

18:48

And the point of this is that.

18:51

Be. Guided to understand how

18:53

you embed your intention and

18:56

what your mindset has to

18:58

be are the critical components

19:00

that are necessary to maximize

19:03

your potential. To. Manifest. Now

19:05

that's not to say you can't

19:07

or it's impossible to manifest Otherwise,

19:09

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19:12

Habit that my wife and I really proud of. that

19:14

we put in place over the last couple years is

19:17

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19:19

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I manifested all these self serving thanks.

20:32

But. What was the price I paid for

20:34

that? If the price was it was

20:36

miserable of. A

20:41

path because I. I

20:43

like it's that I've I've the first but then

20:45

I understood the so deeply and I and I

20:47

could never articulated the way years for articulating are

20:49

going to ask you. Since I get the have

20:51

you in person the question I would have asked

20:53

you what I read about it the first which

20:55

is well.