0:00

You can't just have a blanket statement

0:02

for everyone because everyone

0:04

is different. Welcome

0:13

to the One You Feed. Throughout

0:15

time, great thinkers have recognized the

0:17

importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes

0:20

like garbage in, garbage out,

0:22

or you are what you think ring

0:24

true. And yet for many of

0:26

us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower

0:29

us. We tend toward negativity, self

0:31

pity, jealousy, or fear.

0:34

We see what we don't have instead of what we

0:36

do. We think things that hold us

0:38

back and dampen our spirit. But

0:41

it's not just about thinking. Our

0:43

actions matter. It takes conscious,

0:45

consistent, and creative effort to make

0:47

a life worth living. This podcast

0:50

is about how other people keep themselves moving

0:52

in the right direction, how they feed

0:54

their good wolf YEA,

1:08

thanks for joining us. Our guest on this

1:10

episode is Matthew Quick. This is

1:12

matthews third time on The One You Feed.

1:15

He's a New York Times best selling author

1:17

of several novels, including The Silver Linings

1:19

Playbook, which was made into an Oscar

1:21

winning film. His work has been

1:23

translated into more than thirty languages.

1:26

His new book is the Reason You're

1:29

Alive. If you value

1:31

the content we put out each week. Then

1:33

we need your help. As the

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help to make the show sustainable and

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2:00

one you feed dot net slash Support.

2:03

Thank you in advance for your help.

2:07

And here's the interview with Matthew

2:09

Quick. Hi Matthew, Welcome

2:11

to the shows. You are the first

2:13

three time guest. I am very proud

2:16

of that is in the honor

2:18

of some sort I suppose, but I feel like I actually

2:20

get a jacket or something. Well, I was looking

2:22

before I left. I was like, I wish I had a T shirt in

2:24

your size, but I didn't didn't have one.

2:27

So you know the podcast,

2:29

I mean, I love your work. And then secondly,

2:32

it's just a thrill for me that you actually listen to the

2:34

show a lot. So it's kind of cool to have somebody

2:36

that I really want to have on who also knows the show.

2:38

So we've done this twice, and this time

2:41

is different for listeners because we are in person.

2:43

We are in Cleveland making eye

2:45

contact, making eye contact Matthews doing

2:47

a book tour, and I live about two hours away,

2:49

so I figured i'd come up and we

2:51

do it in person. So this is a

2:53

live one. So let's go ahead and start

2:56

with the parable. Take three on it as a grandfather's

2:58

talking with grandson. He says, in life, there are two

3:00

wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One

3:03

is a good wolf, which represents things like

3:05

kindness and bravery and love, and

3:07

the other is a bad wolf, which represents

3:09

things like greed and hatred and fear. And

3:12

the grandson stops and thinks about it for a second,

3:14

looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which

3:16

one wins. The grandfather says, the

3:19

one you feed. So I'd like to

3:21

ask you your take on that parable.

3:24

I've answered twice already. And

3:27

one of the things I've noticed, and again

3:29

I listened every week a lot of I shouldn't say

3:31

a lot. Some guests come on and maybe

3:33

try to pick apart the parable, or they'll say

3:35

they're not comfortable with the parable, and I'm

3:38

always at home, you know, arguing

3:40

back, and I always take their point. I understand what they

3:42

mean. But I think the parable is

3:44

is great because it's very simple

3:47

and for someone who struggles with anxiety.

3:49

If we think of anxiety as as

3:52

the dark wolf, for you know, the bad

3:54

wolf, it's very simple. And lately,

3:57

UM, I've been using

3:59

this little thing called cats.

4:01

I think I picked us up on another podcast, but caffeine,

4:04

alcohol, tobacco, and suites

4:07

and for me, I know that I've got to

4:10

eliminate or lower that stuff in order

4:12

to deal with my anxiety. But my wife is

4:14

very quick to add an eye in front of that,

4:16

and it's called eye cats because she says,

4:18

Internet, you know, and the thoughts that you're

4:20

taking in UM is really a

4:22

big one. And especially on book tour, UM.

4:25

You know, there's a lot of things that can trigger anxiety

4:27

on book tour, public speaking UM.

4:29

And people will say to me like, you're a great public speaker,

4:32

but they don't know that for three hours before I get

4:34

up on stage, I have to do breathing exercises

4:36

and I've I've got to be alone and calm

4:39

myself. And I share

4:41

that because you know, it normalizes

4:43

it for other people. But also with the

4:45

information on book tour, you're constantly

4:47

getting reviews and people

4:49

writing about you. And I'm

4:52

definitely a perfectionist and the

4:54

book is very Every one of my books is

4:56

very personal. But when people read the book, even if

4:58

they like it, if they don't like it for the reasons

5:00

I intended, like that could be you know, troubling,

5:03

um and Chris, if you want to find someone

5:06

to tell you that you suck and you

5:08

know you're you're a terrible writer, there are plenty

5:10

of people on the internet line enough to do that for

5:12

you. So, you know, limiting the flow

5:14

of information and um, what you

5:17

access even just stuff like news too. You

5:19

know, Um, my wife and I try to

5:22

not be looking at the news all the time,

5:24

but you're in an airport and you're seeing newspapers,

5:27

headlines, uh, TV screens

5:29

everywhere. When I'm traveling that I'm not

5:31

used to sing in it

5:34

is this horrible, horrible stuff makes you think

5:36

that, uh, something bad is going to happen

5:38

to you every second of the day. And so

5:40

I try to reframe my thoughts and think, well,

5:43

there's all these people in this this hive

5:45

of an airport and yet you're

5:47

safe, like and somebody just smiled at you

5:49

and somebody held the door for you. And so, you

5:52

know, trying to control my thoughts as well.

5:54

Um, you know, feeding that good wolf. You know where

5:56

you're gonna put your attention. And I understand when

5:59

people come on the show and they want to, you

6:01

know, intellectualize the parable, but I think

6:04

you're really missing the point if you do that, right,

6:06

I mean, that's why it is a parable. Although

6:08

I heard the other day that a parable has humans

6:10

in it and a fable has animals, so

6:13

it might be a fable. But I'm too

6:15

late to change. That's okay.

6:17

But yeah, I mean I agree on one level it is.

6:19

It's a very simple thing. You know, where do

6:21

we choose to put our attention or energy

6:23

or actions. And I think too, especially

6:25

when you you published a novel, people do want

6:28

to intellectualize things. And I get

6:30

it. You know, I've been you know, the m f

6:32

A student. You know, I've been the

6:34

the the academia person like I've

6:36

been the lit snob, and the

6:39

order I get, the less important that stuff

6:41

becomes. You know. I used to think when I got

6:43

on stage, like, oh if I confuse like

6:46

a fable with analogy or whatever, like it would

6:48

be the end of the world. But I make mistakes

6:50

in public all the time. You know, I use the

6:52

wrong word, and you know what, that's okay. You know,

6:54

the world goes on, And I think

6:57

the meaning is more important than than

6:59

specific six. I think when you let go of

7:01

of being right, you actually take

7:03

in more information that's good for you. You definitely

7:06

do. Not having to be right helps in so

7:08

many different ways. I mean, having to be

7:10

right for me is a limit on what

7:12

I actually even listen to or learn, because

7:15

if I'm thinking I have to be right or I am

7:17

right about this thing, I'm just not really listening anymore.

7:19

And I've more and more thought about

7:21

that and and looked at that and tried

7:23

to just step back and

7:25

go, well, maybe I don't know. Open my

7:27

mind to the idea that I don't know. Yeah, And there

7:29

are times in the past where I've said

7:32

I don't want to tweet something because maybe I'll make a

7:34

spelling mistake, or I don't want to get

7:36

up on stage and speak because maybe I'll

7:38

say the wrong thing, or I'll say um

7:40

or like or you know, all the things you're not supposed

7:42

to, Chris, I'll get rid of those for you. I

7:45

appreciate that. Um. You know,

7:47

any time I speak or any time I put a book

7:50

out, like the people that I really connect with, they're

7:52

not interested in that. There are definitely people

7:54

in the audience that will kind of every time I say

7:56

that, and they'll they'll point to that. But there are other people that say,

7:58

what is this guy about? What is his core

8:01

value? What is his truth? And that's

8:03

what they're interested And you want to connect with those people.

8:05

And so when I'm on the road, I'm constantly

8:08

checking in. There abe moments when I'll replay

8:10

something I said in an interview at two o'clock

8:12

in the morning. Anxiety wake me up, and I'll sit

8:15

up at three in the morning and say, what did I say

8:17

in that interview and the one you feed and I'll get very

8:19

nervous, and I have to remind myself

8:21

that it's not the specific thing I said. It's

8:23

it's a collection of all the things you say over

8:25

time, um, and that's what people are

8:27

gonna remember. I think that's a great way to

8:29

transition into the new book.

8:32

It's called The Reason You Are Alive, and

8:35

it has a character. The main character is

8:37

somebody who would be challenging

8:40

for a lot of the people who listen to this show.

8:42

Right he's a very strong right

8:44

wing um. You know, some

8:47

of us would call, you know, nut job, right

8:49

um. I found it fascinating,

8:51

though, to start the book

8:54

with him and then watch

8:57

over time as you realize on

8:59

some level a wonderful person he is.

9:01

And that's one of the things that you know, after this election

9:04

and all that, And I've stayed out of politics

9:06

because when I've wandered in, it's you know, it's

9:08

not really my space. The thing that's troubled

9:10

me the most about it, though, is that it seems like

9:12

we picked the worst example of the other side

9:15

and use that as a representative for all of them.

9:17

And I just don't think that's the case. I mean, there's

9:20

been a lot of work about conservative versus

9:22

liberal values, and they're they both have really

9:24

strong values, they're just different. And

9:27

so I loved the book because you start with this guy.

9:29

Again, I think a lot of people listening

9:31

to the show will immediately be like, wait a minute,

9:33

because I think our audience skews left. But

9:36

over time, you really get to know this guy

9:38

and you see that despite certain things,

9:40

he's a wonderful person. Yeah, and thank

9:42

you for saying that, because that was one of the

9:44

things that I wanted to explore. I should

9:46

say that I finished writing this book

9:48

before the last presidential election heated

9:51

up. You knows, before we imagine

9:53

that Trump when president. That wasn't

9:55

that wasn't mindset. I wasn't even thinking about Trump

9:57

when I wrote the book. But I grew up

10:00

in a very conservative

10:02

Christian home, and if

10:04

you had asked me when I was sixteen to describe

10:07

myself, I would have said Republican,

10:10

fundamentalist Christian proudly. Uh.

10:13

And when I went to college, I remember

10:15

my grandfather saying to me, you

10:17

need to get your degree, but I

10:19

don't want you to believe anything

10:21

that the people at school tell you, because

10:24

they're all liars. All your professors are gonna lie

10:26

to you. And that was a really confusing message

10:28

for me to get at seventeen. But of course,

10:30

when I went to liberal arts school,

10:33

and I was an English major secondary

10:35

yet I was everyone I met was extremely

10:37

liberal, and immediately my needles started to

10:40

move left. And now I work in you

10:42

know, and publishing, and I work in the

10:44

movie industry. In l A. And

10:47

everyone is extremely liberal, and

10:49

so when you have something like the election

10:52

and people make comments like about

10:55

a right wing nut job or you know, like

10:57

all of those people in the other states, and

10:59

you pick a color and you go with

11:01

your team. Um, it's it's

11:03

frustrating for me, you know, because,

11:06

uh, I might agree with the

11:09

politics of the people making those comments,

11:11

but they're dismissing a whole group of

11:13

people that are human beings. And so

11:15

something like my grandfather was a World War Two that

11:18

he was extremely conservative,

11:20

grew up in the Great Depression, that there are reasons

11:23

why he had the opinions. There was reasons

11:25

why he was so tribal um,

11:27

but he was also so wonderful

11:29

and loving and caring to me. My uncle

11:31

Pete, who was a Vietnam vet um,

11:33

he said a lot of offensive things,

11:35

but he was also the first person

11:38

to recognize when I was in my twenties and I was struggling

11:40

with anxiety because he spent a lot of time at the v A

11:43

and so why he might say some things that I thought

11:45

were offensive. He's also the guy that called me

11:47

and said, hey, you seem awfully stressed

11:49

out. You know, you're getting out, you know, don't

11:51

hold up. You know, I spent a lot of time with veterans.

11:54

You got you can't make those mistakes like you

11:56

have anxiety, that's what you have. And he was

11:58

the first guy to reach out. He's one of the first people

12:00

that encourage me to write UM. And

12:02

so when people just dismiss whole

12:04

groups of people, especially I work a lot of

12:06

people who have never met anybody, like my grandfather

12:09

and my uncle, it's frustrating.

12:11

It's just as frustrating when I go home to my

12:13

family and they make a comment about

12:15

the people on the left. You know, it's the same. And so

12:18

oftentimes I find myself

12:20

in isolation in the middle,

12:22

not not politically in the middle, but

12:25

just I don't want to pick a team and dismiss

12:27

a whole group of human beings based on their political

12:30

preferences. I don't want to demonize

12:32

them and say, you know, this is the snowflake

12:34

over here, so they're idiots and these are the right

12:37

wing nuts jobs over there, because there's

12:39

no communication and it's it's a lie

12:41

on both sides. Yeah, And I think one

12:44

of the ways to bridge the divide, I

12:46

think is meeting people that are different than you talking

12:48

to people that are different to you, which is very difficult

12:50

to do. Like you talked about the industries you work,

12:52

and you're not gonna find many people like that.

12:55

I happen to be in Columbus, Ohio, which

12:57

is like, you know,

12:59

it's like right down the middle, you know, and sohi,

13:01

it was an interesting place to be because I

13:03

am exposed to both those things,

13:06

and it's just interesting and it's it's disheartening

13:08

to me, you know, these days kind of

13:10

what the overall political discourse

13:13

is, not just among the politicians,

13:15

but even more among I mean

13:17

certainly the politicians too, but just

13:19

people. Your book, to me was a

13:22

very thoughtful and useful

13:24

way to look at that, and you know, to use art to

13:26

shine a light on a current situation.

13:29

Yeah, And I think um comfort

13:31

disturbed and disturbed the comforted. I know

13:33

that most of the people who

13:36

are going to be in charge of promoting my book

13:38

and most of the the people who are going to read

13:41

it are probably gonna skew left, and that

13:43

that was a conscious choice for me to set

13:46

it from David's point of view. One review

13:48

called it subversive, which you know, the punk

13:50

rocker and me back in the Day was very proud of

13:53

that. But you know, I I do think

13:55

it was a conscious decision to say, Hey,

13:58

I'm gonna give you a character that is going to really

14:00

frustrated you for fifty pages, but you're gonna fall

14:02

in love with this guy by the end, and it's gonna make you chat.

14:04

It's gonna challenge your worldview, and it's gonna

14:06

check to see how tolerant you really

14:08

are. And that's one thing that

14:11

sometimes frustrates me about the left

14:13

because we always say about tolerance. Tolerance. Tolerance

14:15

is set for, you know, toallenge for

14:17

people on the right who don't agree with you, who don't

14:19

agree with us, and so um.

14:22

You know, for me, I practice tolerance all the time

14:24

when I'm with my conservative family members,

14:26

especially with my grandfather, whom I loved, or

14:28

my uncle Pete, whom I was really close with.

14:30

In order to have a relationship with him, I had

14:32

to practice tolerance and he had

14:34

to practice tolerance with me, you know, and that

14:36

was that was a real strong bond

14:38

I had before they both passed. And so I

14:41

was hoping to provide that same experience,

14:43

you know, through the vehicle of a novel or art

14:45

for for the reader. You didn't. He really gets

14:47

fleshed out as a as a whole person. You

14:50

know, he would be the opposite of politically correct,

14:52

right, And yet some of it is just hilarious

14:55

the things he says. And I'm gonna go here, which

14:57

I'm going to regret later, But I'm always

14:59

interested in racism.

15:02

I think we all are, and we're looking at it and trying

15:04

to understand where we fit. And I look at people of a

15:06

certain generation and this guy was a

15:08

Vietnam vet. I look at my mother, and there is

15:10

this interesting categorization

15:13

of a group of people, like you know, uh,

15:15

David does this in the book all the time, right, He's

15:18

like, you know, you'd be an idiot to hire a

15:20

straight man to do your flowers, right, or you'd

15:22

be an idiot to hire a white man to

15:24

mow your lawn. Like, because these groups

15:26

Gays and and Mexicans are known for

15:29

Gays are known for being good at arranging

15:31

flowers, and Mexicans are known for mowing

15:34

lawn. So they're making these generalities about

15:36

people. But the interesting thing

15:39

about him that I found found about David was

15:41

he has nothing against and even likes

15:43

the people in those groups. So

15:45

he's grouping them, and he's sort of judging them

15:48

by some stereotypes, which sometimes

15:50

stereotypes become stereotypes to a certain

15:52

extent because there's some there's a kernel

15:54

of truth in there. But yet he

15:57

bears he likes those people. There is his

15:59

friends. And I look at that and I go, is

16:01

that racism? And it you know, and

16:03

again I'm gonna get this is gonna get into a debate

16:05

that I don't want to get into. But I notice

16:08

that in people, particularly of an older generation,

16:10

and I see that very quality. They're sort

16:12

of stereotyping people, but they

16:14

like those people at the same time they're friends with

16:17

those people. And so it's just an interesting

16:19

take on, you know, what is racism?

16:21

Yeah, and I'm not so sure that I

16:24

was trying to tackle with the book what is racism?

16:26

But the one thing I did want to question

16:29

is I think in this day and age, we've

16:31

come to a point where if somebody uses a certain

16:33

phrase, or if somebody says a certain word,

16:36

or somebody fails to keep up with you

16:38

know, the changing political

16:41

or the etique vocabulary,

16:43

um, then all of a sudden we're supposed

16:45

to put them in a box. And we know

16:47

every single thing about that person. And

16:50

I've met people, um

16:52

who use offensive language

16:54

who have good qualities too, you

16:56

know, and that that's that I think it's a lie

16:59

when you say if somebody's says a certain word,

17:01

then therefore they don't count as a human

17:03

being and we should just eradicate them from the planet.

17:05

Also, you know, with my grandfather, I struggle

17:08

with this all the time. You know, he grew up

17:10

in the tribal system and field

17:12

literally rough on the streets. You stuck with

17:15

the people in your neighborhood, and if you straight

17:17

into another neighborhood with a different ethnicity,

17:19

they would beat the hell out of you, you know. And that's

17:21

that's the way that he grew up. Um.

17:24

Same with you know, my uncle in Vietnam.

17:27

You know, you spend a year where everyone you see

17:29

who is Vietnamese is trying to kill you.

17:32

You know, obviously that's going to affect

17:34

you in a way that if you grew up in

17:37

New York City at the time, it wasn't

17:39

worth obviously, it's it doesn't

17:41

cost you anything to be tolerant,

17:43

you know. And so you know, you

17:45

never want to excuse racism, But I think You're

17:47

never gonna solve racism if we don't

17:49

really get to the heart of why people

17:52

are thinking what they're thinking. And

17:54

if we just shame everyone for their thoughts

17:56

before they get a chance to explain him, they were never

17:58

going to understand them. I agree. I think

18:00

it's shutting the conversation down. And it's

18:03

a I've heard the phrase, you know, we live in a culture

18:05

of outrage, and and that's the thing that I see most

18:07

is just everybody is always all bent out

18:09

of shape about something. And I look

18:11

at it a lot of it and I go, well, I

18:13

don't think that's really what that person meant. Like

18:16

we can take that thing that they said, and we

18:18

can make them out to be an horrible person because

18:20

of them, but I think we're taking it way out of context.

18:23

Um. There was one the other day where showed

18:26

Donald Trump UH and a foreign leader

18:28

and she walked past him to shake his wife's

18:30

hand, and the video that was all you saw,

18:32

and it looked like she snubbed him. Well,

18:34

she shook his wife's hand, then she turned, you know, it's

18:36

just like she was already seeing her. And I looked

18:38

at that as an example of of taking something

18:41

and sort of twisting it in a way

18:43

to make it look worse than it really

18:46

was, to justify a worldview. And

18:48

I don't like that. I mean, again, politics aside.

18:50

I'm not gonna get into who I prefer and don't I mean,

18:53

And I think there's a lot of things that are really

18:55

going wrong at a political level, but at

18:57

a human level, I think that's

18:59

what we're losing, and we just are all

19:01

looking for something to be angry about. And I don't

19:03

know why. I think because we're afraid,

19:06

and it gives us the illusion of making

19:08

us feel safe, you know. Um,

19:11

I mean that's all the rays like safe spaces,

19:13

and you know, we're gonna we need language that's

19:15

not offensive. Um,

19:17

but people use offensive language to express

19:20

emotions that exists. And you can't

19:22

just shut down people's emotions,

19:25

you know. Um, just because somebody

19:27

doesn't say a word, or you know, they don't

19:29

use a phrase that's deemed offensive, doesn't

19:31

mean that they're on the inside and not offensive,

19:34

you know. It just means that they've learned to mask

19:36

that. And so one of the things

19:38

that my character David Granger is, because

19:41

he's had brain brain surgery, has

19:43

no filter. He says, everything

19:46

that comes to his mind. And

19:48

so I think one of the reasons why

19:50

a lot of people are enjoying him so much is

19:52

because when he says the most horrific

19:54

thing that comes to his mind, you

19:57

think, I can't believe this guy just said

19:59

this. But it makes you believe him

20:01

when he says the good stuff because

20:04

he's saying everything. So when he tells

20:06

you how much he loves his granddaughter, or

20:08

how much he loved his wife, or how much he loves

20:10

his country, or that he's befriended

20:13

um this gay couple, or he you

20:15

know, he's befriended the quote little yellow

20:18

woman in spin class, like, you believe

20:20

that those intentions are good because he would

20:22

tell you if he had other intentions.

20:24

There's no there's no masking, there's no academic

20:28

language or flowery language where that

20:30

he's using as a key to get through a door.

20:32

He's just being himself. And I think

20:34

that's one of the things I want to get to with this book.

20:36

I think that's one of the things that people

20:39

have loved about Trump is that he just says

20:42

anything. Now, I don't think that's a great quality

20:44

for the president of the United States, but I get

20:46

it right. I mean, you don't have to wonder

20:48

what he thinks. Well, I think the big difference between

20:50

my character in Trump is, uh,

20:53

any politician is not

20:56

saying what they think. They're

20:58

saying what is going to get empowered. Whereas

21:01

my character David Grangers at the end of his

21:03

life making this confession. Um,

21:05

it's kind of almost like he has nothing

21:07

to lose and he's coming out and just telling you

21:10

he's not gaining anything from except

21:12

for perhaps um redemption

21:15

or some type of closure at the end of his life.

21:18

But I get your point. I think it's different. I think, but that's

21:20

what even though it may not be that case,

21:23

you know, that's what people think is happening.

21:25

They think somebody is finally saying

21:28

or somebody somebody is not

21:31

being silenced and shamed into

21:33

silence. They're saying the things that you've

21:35

been told you're not allowed to say. And

21:38

I think I'd probably be get in troubles. But

21:40

it's an American to say you can't say

21:42

things. To make a list of words and things

21:44

and opinions that you can't express, is it

21:47

just goes against but what America is.

21:49

And that's not to say we don't have a right to say that we

21:51

don't like those opinions. But when we try to

21:53

shut people down and say the way that we're going to protect

21:56

everyone is by silencing

21:58

these groups, are taking away the language

22:00

of these people, or you know, make

22:02

a list of rules that is constantly changing

22:04

about what you're allowed to say.

22:07

And by the way, you know that that is politically

22:09

motivated as well. Um, I

22:12

think people find that frustrating, and

22:14

I think people, you know, like I think Trump

22:16

and other people can exploit that frustration.

22:19

And I think that's dangerous too. It's all around

22:22

well, I think, honestly and discussion

22:24

and transparency, you know,

22:26

I think that's that's a big thing too.

22:28

And I think my character, David Granger, he's

22:31

completely transparent, and I

22:33

think that's why the people who have really

22:36

enjoyed him. I love him

22:38

because he's honest, and I think he's funny

22:40

because he says the things that he thinks. And

22:43

I've often heard that humor

22:45

is experiencing the unexpected. That's

22:48

it. You know, why do we laugh when someone trips when

22:50

they're walking on the sidewalk. It's not because we want them to

22:52

get hurt. It's because we didn't expect it to happen,

22:55

and it just triggers the thing and us that you

22:57

know, the person trips, they didn't get hurt. We can laugh

23:00

up because it's a release and we I

23:02

think we live in a time when everyone is feeling

23:04

so tense um that we

23:06

we we laugh when somebody says something audacious

23:08

because we're like, oh, we we forgot we're allowed to say

23:10

audacious things. We forgot that we're

23:13

in America and we can say whatever.

23:47

So hold on before you hit the fast forward button

23:49

past the mid role. I've got Matthew Quick

23:52

here with me who were doing the interview, and he has been

23:54

kind enough to donate ten

23:56

signed copies of his new book. So

23:59

we're going to do the content us that we've done before.

24:01

For everybody that sits as a signed copy.

24:03

For everybody that pledges you will be entered

24:06

in a contest to win a signed copy of his

24:08

book. And based on the donations,

24:10

I bet you've got a really good chance of winning

24:12

that. So Matthew, Yeah, And the reason

24:14

why I donated the books is because

24:17

I believe so much in the show. It's it's helped

24:19

me and I want to help promote the show.

24:21

Um, and when I found the show, I was getting it for

24:23

free every week and and you know, at

24:26

some point I thought this is something I would definitely

24:28

pay for, and I have donated to the show and

24:30

and um, you know, if you if you win a

24:32

book, the book would run you

24:35

about twenties six bucks. That's quite a

24:37

bargain if you win the book. Yeah, and it's signed.

24:39

So again, within the next

24:41

week, sign up for a donation

24:44

and you'll be entered into a contest to get a signed

24:46

copy of Matthew Quick's Greatest book,

24:48

which is wonderful. And now back

24:50

to the interview with Matthew Quick.

24:53

I was thinking back to our first interview

24:56

and I think one of the things that we talked about was

24:58

you were talking about Silver Linings a book, and how

25:00

some people laughed and some people cried and

25:02

totally different reactions. But the thing

25:04

that I said and I still stand by in this book is

25:06

another great example is that I feel like

25:09

I can laugh and cry nearly in the same

25:11

page. It's that blend that is

25:13

so powerful to me in fiction, to

25:15

be able to trigger those two emotions

25:18

simultaneously. And you know you're very

25:20

good at that, Thank you. That's why I come on the show for

25:22

comments like that. It's wonderful. But I

25:24

think when you think about laughing and crying,

25:27

um, there are two emotional responses

25:29

that accomplished the same thing. You know. They

25:32

release tension. Yeah, you know, so they're

25:34

they're very closely related, you

25:36

know, for me being someone who's very

25:38

anxious and someone you know who's

25:41

nine f J who is an EmPATH, like I

25:44

feel tension all the time, you know, and some at

25:46

a very young age it became a coping

25:48

mechanism to try to get people to laugh because

25:51

it changed the energy that they're putting out, which

25:53

would give me relief. Um. And

25:55

so you know, people will say

25:57

like do you consciously try to make jokes in your

26:00

books? Like do you try to make them funny? Or are

26:02

you trying to trigger the you know, tears,

26:04

And no, I'm just going through the emotions

26:06

of the characters. And I know that if

26:08

I'm crying while I'm writing, or if I'm laughing

26:11

while I'm crying, that's probably a pretty good

26:13

sign. But it's not like I said, what is gonna make me

26:15

laugh or cry? I try to channel those emotions

26:17

in the honest way. You're talking about

26:19

your anxiety. You're you know, you'll mention to me

26:21

you're on a book tour this time, and it's a little bit

26:23

different from you and that you've made some

26:25

changes in your life to be healthier. Is

26:27

that something you want to talk about. I'd love to talk about that, and

26:30

I like to give you a lot of credit for that too and

26:32

not too embarrass you. But uh,

26:35

you know, I've been listening to the show for three years now

26:37

and it's become a really important

26:39

part of my life every week just because it's just

26:41

a reminder and I almost

26:43

think of you as like a friend. You know, it

26:46

just comes into my my ears every

26:48

Tuesday or was Wednesday

26:50

morning or whenever I listened to it, And

26:52

uh, you know, it's funny because like feeding

26:54

that good Wolf. You know, I and I first

26:56

heard this show, and I first heard the concept of it, I said,

26:59

you know, this is this is a good thing for me. And I

27:01

had known that I had a problem with

27:03

food, I had a problem with alcohol.

27:06

Um, I had a problem with being

27:08

obsessive about internet information like

27:10

I was talking about in the beginning. But

27:12

there was a big part of me that thought, because

27:15

I have anxiety, I can't function

27:17

without alcohol. You know, I

27:19

can't go to a party without alcohol.

27:22

I can't do a book tour without you know,

27:24

clon upin or something, and like that

27:26

was a belief I had for myself.

27:29

Um, But as I listened to your show, and I

27:31

listened to other podcasts and read widely

27:33

over the years, and I started this journey in my twenties

27:36

of trying to figure out what was going on inside

27:38

of me. And my wife's been a big part of it too.

27:40

About a year ago, I said, all right, now

27:42

it's time to face that lie. You know, it's

27:44

time to like and you know, and so I started running

27:47

a lot and that started to give me relief

27:49

from anxiety. And

27:51

um. Then I said, well, you

27:53

know, I'm reading all this stuff about you know, eating

27:56

processed food and bad food and you know, get

27:58

rid of that. And that started make me feel better. And

28:01

then the last thing was it was alcohol,

28:03

you know. And I'm not completely off alcohol.

28:05

I have a drink every once in a while. But I started off

28:07

with um saying I'm not going to drink

28:09

for a month, and you know, my friends

28:12

and my wife said that will never happened. You know, it's

28:14

the way he's making it. But it

28:16

was the first time, and I said, yeah, the only time

28:18

I had done that was when I had gotten

28:21

a blood test that said my

28:23

my liver was damaged, and

28:25

so I had to go off alcohol for um

28:28

a month. And it turned

28:30

out that the test was a fluke and

28:32

so I was fine, and so my wife was upset

28:34

and she thought, like I would stop, you know, drinking

28:37

everything, and I just went right back to it. So this

28:39

was this big test of going off alcohol for

28:41

um a month. And what I

28:43

found this time was that my my sleep

28:46

was better, and the anxiety

28:48

went way down, and my depression started to

28:50

lift. And you know, it's funny because you would think, okay,

28:52

like I have depression, so I'm gonna put you know, depressive

28:55

into my body every day. It's it sounds so

28:57

ridiculous now, but it was a habit

28:59

for so long, and so I

29:01

just made this commitment to getting

29:04

healthy into drinking less, and I've lost

29:06

forty eight pounds, I've been running a lot.

29:09

Well, thank you. And it's funny because people will

29:11

say that you keep saying, you know, you get a lot of affirmation,

29:14

you look great, you look great, But I didn't do it to

29:16

look great at all. I did it to like clean out my

29:18

mind. Um, and it just got to

29:20

a point where I just was tired of waking

29:22

up every morning a little hungover

29:25

and a little anxious and you

29:27

know, counting down the hours. So you know,

29:29

I could have that drink at the end of the day and

29:31

and it's it's been really freeing in. You

29:33

know. I had to take because to say all this

29:35

because for so many years, whenever I would hear

29:38

this message like if you stopped drinking, you sleep

29:40

better, I was like, yeah, but I'm not gonna stop. Like

29:42

that's it's so uncooler, Like everyone's

29:44

drinks. What am I gonna do? Go out to the bar? And I have another

29:46

friend that runs all the time and he always

29:48

comes to bed at nine o'clock. And when I first started hanging

29:50

out with him, I thought, you know, it's so lame. But

29:53

now that I'm running and eating healthy, like I love

29:55

going to better early, it's it's it's

29:57

so weird. It's just transformed everything in

29:59

my mind. But it's been much better. In this

30:01

tour has been a lot

30:03

less anxious for me. You know, surprise, surprise,

30:06

right, you know, Um, I've been running every

30:08

day on tour, and working out and no

30:11

alcohol, no clonic pin, so

30:13

there's no thought getting

30:15

up in the morning like I need to take another clon a pin or

30:17

you know. And the other thing that would happen on

30:20

book tour is I try

30:22

to get off the clone pin. I go through withdrawal. And

30:24

there are people that say clonic pins, you know,

30:26

as addictive or more addictive than heroin. You

30:28

know, a lot of people will say that. And I

30:30

would go through really really bad withdrawal,

30:33

and I'd be depressed for weeks after book tour, and

30:35

you know, it's just not a good way to live. I got

30:38

tired of it, you know. I got tired

30:40

of looking at the lie like looking in the mirror

30:42

and saying, you're justifying all

30:44

these things that you know aren't good for you.

30:47

And uh, you know, I guess

30:49

I'll be a little bit candid too. I think one

30:51

of the things that I really started

30:53

to square up with was the fact that

30:56

there's a big part of me that thought I didn't deserve

30:59

to be healthy. There's a big part of me that thought,

31:02

um, you don't deserve the success

31:04

you've had. You know. There's a big part of me that

31:06

thought, if you don't deserve the love that

31:08

you're getting. And you know, looking

31:11

back, I almost

31:14

you know, I I say this with

31:16

with a little hesitation, but I really

31:18

do believe it. I think it was a slow form of suicide.

31:21

I really do like I think it was a

31:23

big part of myself that said, you're not worth

31:25

it, you don't deserve this, and

31:28

you should put poison into your body every

31:30

day and make yourself sick because

31:33

you're not good enough. And

31:35

and the drinking perpetuates it, right, because every

31:37

time that you think I shouldn't be doing that and you

31:39

do it, you reinforce that message.

31:41

Look, I'm not good enough, right, I said I was not

31:43

going to do this, and I did it again, So you

31:46

know, here I am. And I think that's the that's the insidious

31:48

thing. And you know, addiction is like such a weird

31:51

thing because it's it's such a spectrum, right, There's

31:53

you know, there's like one end is you know, people

31:55

who just have no tendency towards too and

31:58

the other end is people who you know, I

32:00

you know, not being able to quit, and

32:02

and then and there's a lot of people in between. But

32:04

I think the insidious thing about it is that

32:07

it does work for a while, right,

32:09

There's a reason people keep going to alcohol

32:12

or other things because it does work. I mean, when

32:14

I if I were to take two drinks right now, I would feel

32:16

better than I felt probably in a month, I mean,

32:19

or in a long time, for about

32:21

fifteen minutes, right, and

32:23

then it would kind of go downhill from there. And then

32:26

then I don't feel good. So how do I get to feel

32:28

good again? I drink again. And when more I drink, the less

32:30

good I feel. And so I mean, it's just this just

32:32

such a tough cycle, it is. And you

32:35

know this time around, you know, the first night

32:37

of books Are it was my hometown

32:40

and there's gonna be a few hundred people there, and there's

32:42

gonna be a lot of people I haven't seen for a while. Expectations

32:45

were super high, as you know, And

32:47

in the three hours before, we're really really

32:49

tough for me. And I wanted

32:52

to drink for the first time in

32:54

months so badly, Like not

32:56

because socially,

32:59

or wasn't just that. It was because I

33:01

I felt like I needed a drink.

33:03

I needed the clone up in um.

33:06

But the funny thing was when I did

33:08

the event, it was great alcohol drunk free,

33:10

and afterwards I was talking to my

33:12

wife and I said, you know, I think I'm gonna

33:14

go to sleep by It was a really cool event and it was good,

33:16

and she's like, you do realize that,

33:19

you know, you're way different now, like on

33:21

the other side of it, you know, because I passed

33:23

on the short term relief. You know, I get sleep

33:25

that night, and the next day I get up

33:28

and I was fine. So you you get

33:30

through that three hours window of

33:32

the struggle, it doesn't carry over to

33:35

the next day, and the next day gets a little bit easier.

33:37

Yeah. I always say I think people think

33:39

about not drinking or cutting back

33:41

on drinking, and when you do it, at first,

33:43

it feels terrible. It does, and you

33:46

think that's what consuming less

33:48

alcohol or being sober is like You're

33:50

like, this sucks, and you know

33:52

it's it's the hanging in there long enough to get

33:54

to the other side of that. I always say that getting sober

33:56

is horrible, but being sober is pretty great,

33:59

you know, And I stay sober a lot sometimes

34:01

just on the fact I don't ever want to have to do it again.

34:04

Yeah, I don't ever want to have to cross that divide

34:06

again, because it is really difficult.

34:08

I don't know that I'm an addict in the sense that

34:10

like I would get up in and you know, get the shakes.

34:13

You know. It was more that I have social

34:15

anxiety and that was a cheat for

34:17

me, and it be I became very dependent

34:19

on that in social situations. But

34:22

I will say that, Uh,

34:24

since I've cut down on drinking,

34:27

I learned a few things that one

34:30

beer doesn't really do anything for

34:32

me. And so if I'm

34:34

really exercising and accounting my

34:36

my calories, all of a sudden, I

34:39

don't want to drink it anymore. And you know, I'm

34:42

I love Scotch, um,

34:44

and you know I've I've found that. Um

34:47

it used to be, you know it's six months

34:49

ago, would take me four scotches to get high.

34:51

Now I just have one Scotch and I feel

34:53

pretty buz, And you know, like that's I can do just

34:56

one, you know, like once a week or once

34:58

every two weeks. The key right there. I don't

35:00

think everybody needs to be completely

35:02

abstinent, right, Um. Some

35:04

people are able once they can turn it off,

35:07

to sort of use it like a normal human

35:09

being can. And boy, if I could pick a

35:12

superpower to have, I think that's the one,

35:15

but I've proven to myself over and over

35:17

it doesn't work. I don't have just one

35:19

yea and everyone train gets rolling and

35:21

it it's just it happens fast. And so

35:23

I'm just different in that way. But I certainly

35:26

don't think that you have to be, you

35:28

know, completely abstinent to improve

35:30

your relationship with alcohol. Yeah, it's different

35:32

for everyone. Yeah. You know, a guy had a talk

35:34

to the day with a good friend of mine who struggles with anxiety,

35:37

and you know, he needs to take anxiety.

35:39

Man's like, that's that's his game. You know, he

35:41

he can't not you know, that's he has

35:43

to have them. And so I would never advocate for

35:45

him to give up his anxiety image.

35:47

You know, I just knew for me that the clim up

35:50

him is something that I wanted to not

35:52

do and then see if I could do it, and it worked

35:54

out for me. So everyone's path is difference, right,

35:56

And I like to emphasize that I just knew

35:58

in my heart that I wasn't being

36:00

the best version of

36:02

me and there were dark reasons for that.

36:05

Um and my wife knew it too,

36:08

And you know, I just kind of woke

36:10

up and said I do want to be the best version

36:12

of me, and that includes drinking lesson eating

36:14

healthy, and exercising, and it's made a

36:16

big difference. There were a few themes

36:18

that ran through the book. Obviously, you know, we talked

36:20

earlier about the political theme or the

36:23

you know, respecting people of different

36:25

views. The other one really is the power of

36:27

the past to continue

36:29

to live on. And you're you're describing a

36:32

Vietnam veteran who has suffered greatly

36:35

and continues to suffer in

36:37

his life, and so I just thought we could maybe talk about

36:39

that for a minute. You know, how strongly

36:42

does the past control what we do today? And I think,

36:45

you know, it was probably different for everyone, right, and what

36:47

you went through. But I've read things like that before,

36:49

and every time I do. When I read about what

36:51

somebody went through in war,

36:53

I have a completely different perspective

36:56

about who that person is and

36:58

what they went through. And unfortunately, I don't think it sticks

37:00

as well as it could, because then when I read another one again, I'm

37:02

like, oh, yeah, you know, it reminds me. But it was really

37:04

powerful about the trauma he suffered. Yeah,

37:07

you know, I was having a conversation with my buddy

37:09

down in No Bi X and we're talking about karma and

37:12

I won't get exactly how he said it, but

37:14

a paraphrase, and his thought was basically,

37:17

it doesn't really matter if you believe, if

37:19

you have faith in karma or not, because every

37:22

experience that you have on earth creates a memory,

37:25

and that that changes the software of your brain,

37:27

so it will literally affect

37:30

the rest of your life. You know, every memory,

37:32

so you know, whether you believe in karma

37:34

or not, you know the things that you do and the things

37:36

that you experience are going to radically affect

37:38

the rest of your life. And I think that that's

37:40

true. And there are definitely people who

37:43

would read David Granger's voice

37:45

in my book and you know, closely after five

37:47

pages just say no, like I I Am

37:49

not gonna listen to this, like he checked

37:52

off whatever box. And you know, I've met

37:54

people um that I would not have introduced

37:57

to my grandfather it was a World War

37:59

Two that or my uncle was a Vietnam Vet,

38:01

because I knew that they would just say no.

38:03

And I think that that's a shame because

38:05

my relationship with those two men really

38:08

colored my life in a profound

38:10

the way like they were to the only men

38:13

when I was a child who showed me love in

38:15

a real way. Um, and they were

38:18

really unlikely people to

38:20

do that. I've told the story often,

38:23

but my uncle would always threaten to kill me if

38:25

I hugged him, like he was like, don't hug me.

38:27

I don't do hugs. And in somewhere

38:29

in my twenties, I just said, you know, I'm gonna

38:31

do this. I remember I said, Pete, I'm gonna hug you.

38:33

I'm gonna hug you. It's my Vietnam vett uncle.

38:36

And he said, I'll kill you if you hug me. I'm gonna punch

38:38

you in the face. And I remember I just went

38:40

for him, put my arms around him and held on and

38:42

he started punching my back as hard as he could

38:44

kidney punches, and I saw, I'm just gonna hold

38:46

on, and I held on for thirty seconds and the punch

38:48

is slowed, and then he just his face just

38:51

broke out and his like wonderful smile, you

38:53

know. And it was one of these profound moments

38:55

in my life because I learned that

38:57

this man who was outwardly

39:00

projecting, you know, this image of being

39:02

tough and owned all these guns, and you

39:04

know it was always talking about violent things

39:07

and tribalism. He really

39:09

wanted to hug you know that that's

39:11

what he wanted. You know. He was this guy that

39:14

that had been thrown into this situation

39:16

that was unfathomable, that would scare

39:18

any of us. You know, there's a quote in the book

39:21

that I talked about. You know, anyone who's been in

39:23

more for a certain amount of time is considered legally

39:25

insane. That's going to affect you.

39:27

And then on top of that, of course people

39:30

with mental health syndromes or PTSD

39:32

is one of those. Uh, you get the added

39:35

stigma of you know, being

39:37

called crazy or whatever, and you

39:39

know that that's that's frustrating, you know, And

39:41

so I think, you know, the book I

39:43

try. I hope it's a call for you

39:45

know, looking a little bit deeper and you

39:48

know, seeing that sometimes really unlikely

39:50

alliances can be made if

39:53

we're willing to be compassionate and

39:55

tolerance and sometimes those alliances

39:57

are the things that that change your life. And quite literally,

40:00

Um, you know, my uncle was one of these

40:02

guys that you know, he was one of the few people who

40:04

really encouraged me to take a chance on my

40:07

art, you know, really unlikely source

40:09

of inspiration, but um,

40:12

you know, he was not somebody who understood the publishing

40:14

route and how that works, but he was somebody

40:16

who loved me and encouraged me at the time that I

40:18

needed it. Yep. It's an interesting

40:21

concept to me about the role

40:23

of the pastor karma, like you speak.

40:25

I agree. I think it's kind of self evident

40:27

that what we've done in the past affects who

40:29

we are today, sort of like believing that the mind

40:31

is different from the body, right, there's a connection.

40:34

I don't It seems completely self evident

40:36

to me. One of the things that I find really interesting

40:38

though, And we had gabble or mate on and he's an

40:40

addiction specialist, and he was

40:43

saying to a certain extent that at a certain

40:45

point, the damage is so severe,

40:48

the trauma is so great, that

40:50

the range of recovery is really

40:52

limited. Yeah, you know, and I think that's a

40:55

really interesting concept, and it

40:56

it raises so many questions

41:00

legally and and in so many different

41:02

ways about what extent and

41:04

what degree of choice

41:07

do we have. You know that if you if you get determinists

41:09

on who are like you know, strong and the physics will say, well, there's

41:12

no free will at all. Everything is determined, which to

41:14

me also sounds like all right, hold on, you know, it doesn't

41:16

that doesn't make sense. But I do think

41:18

we're simultaneously freer than we think

41:20

we are and not as

41:23

free in certain ways as we'd like to believe. I

41:25

think there's probably a range, right, you know. I

41:27

think we're each with the experience that

41:29

we're given. You know, if it's

41:31

a scale of one to ten, you know, some of

41:33

us are gonna be able to succore two to five, and

41:35

so you shoot for the five. You know. You know,

41:37

some people might be in the five to eight

41:40

range, and so you shoot for the eight. Um.

41:42

And I think in my relationships

41:45

with people, especially family members, um,

41:47

that you can't just edit out of your life.

41:51

You gotta look at it and say, you know, like

41:53

with my uncle Pete with some things, you know, and

41:55

it came to like being tolerant,

41:57

you know, like he's not going to change his range

42:00

on some things might have been like one to three

42:03

and if you hit that three, it was a good day, you know,

42:05

And um, you know, I think

42:08

that's what's interesting about human beings.

42:10

You know. That's why you can't make these blanket

42:12

rules like thou shalt not or

42:14

if then statements like if this

42:16

person does this or says this, then it

42:18

means that thing that's just simply not

42:21

true. You can't just have a blanket

42:23

statement for everyone because everyone's

42:26

different. YEA, yeah, I find that

42:28

that idea of you know, one to five because

42:31

I've I've read, you know a lot about you

42:33

know, happiness and mental health, and they say there's a happiness

42:35

set point for certain people, right and

42:37

some degree you can move it, you know, up

42:39

or down based on what you do, and and there is

42:42

a relatively good amount

42:44

of movement you can do that depends on your actions

42:46

and your environment what you do, and then there's

42:48

just a certain point. And so with me, I've kind

42:51

of accepted to some degree, like I think

42:53

that happiness set point just isn't real high,

42:56

you know. I think I've worked and I

42:58

do the best I can to get to a point where I don't

43:00

suffer right by and large,

43:02

and I think I'm kind of happy. But I'm not one

43:04

of those people that's just going to be bouncing around all

43:07

day every day, thrilled about everything,

43:09

like it just doesn't. And it's so it's

43:11

relieving to me on one hand to be able to let

43:14

go of that and just say, you know what, this

43:16

is kind of who I am, and I'm going to do

43:18

the best I can with what I've got. Um

43:21

and again the range, maybe I can make myself

43:23

twenty or thirty percent happier, which is

43:25

a lot. We've got a lot that we can

43:27

do in our own lives. And yet at

43:30

a certain point, experience, biology,

43:32

genes, all that stuff does have a role also,

43:35

And so I guess I would say when I think about

43:37

that, and I'm kind of talking out lout, it kind of gets back

43:39

to the what can you control and

43:41

what can't you write, and and focusing

43:43

your efforts on what you can control and saying

43:45

with the stuff you can't like, well, that's just kind of what it is.

43:48

There are times, especially on book tour, and

43:50

I really wish I was an extrovert. Yeah,

43:53

I really, because my job on book

43:55

tour is to sell books. And if I

43:57

was a salesman, you know, if I was an

44:00

extrovert who could gain energy

44:02

by being around people, I would probably

44:05

be much better at selling my books. But

44:08

I'm an introvert, and that means I'm good at

44:10

spending time alone in a room

44:12

and I'm good at writing books, you know, And and and sometimes

44:15

I I started to feel well, it's how unfair

44:17

is it that most authors I know are

44:19

introverts, and yet they expect you to

44:21

go on book tour and do social media all the

44:24

time and be this extroverted

44:26

person. And then I say to myself, you

44:28

know you're thinking about it the wrong way. You know

44:30

you can reframe it and say, I'm an

44:32

introvert and I'm I'm managing on book tour

44:34

and it's i had some really awesome experiences,

44:36

and I'm gonna do this for a couple of weeks and I'm gonna go

44:38

back and I'm going to do these events and

44:40

that you know, they're gonna if I reframe like what

44:42

I'm trying to get out of them. So what I say to myself

44:45

is, you know, I'm not trying to get

44:47

on the news or sell a billion copies.

44:49

I'm I'm going to give a talk,

44:51

and if I connect with one or two people at that talk,

44:54

if a couple of people come up to me and say, hey,

44:56

you know something you said, especially about the mental health

44:58

stuff really connected with me and

45:00

thank you for coming. It made me um

45:03

feel better or made me feel less alone. Even

45:05

if they don't buy a book, I say, that's

45:08

a win. That's on mission for me, you know, because

45:10

that resonates with me at the core

45:12

level. That makes me feel less alone in the world. And

45:15

of course I'm trying to sell as many books as possible,

45:17

but if I focus on that, um,

45:19

that's where the depression starts to right, you

45:22

know, for another thing to control that.

45:24

No, And it's always you know, uh,

45:26

focus on process, not results. You know, it's

45:29

this show is always about and it's constantly reminded

45:31

me. And you know, sometimes

45:33

you get what you need along the way. You know, I

45:35

think when you you focus on process and

45:38

and that's different for everyone, but you

45:40

know it's somebody who has had some nice successes

45:42

in the past. Before you

45:44

get those successes, you think that's what you need and

45:46

you think that that will be the place where

45:49

you feel okay, and it's not. You

45:51

know, it's never. It never. The

45:53

anxiety is it was even more present

45:55

when the successes came. And right, yeah,

45:57

yeah, I mean I think that's another theme on the show. Talk

46:00

about a lot that is you know, it's that external

46:02

stuff isn't gonna fix what you think is wrong with

46:04

you again. And you know, for people

46:06

who live in extreme poverty and

46:09

deprivation, let's take that out of that. You know, it's

46:11

not what we're talking about here. But for most

46:13

of us that live a fairly comfortable,

46:16

you know life, it's

46:18

it's not becoming more comfortable or having

46:20

more money. You know, for me, it's not getting

46:22

you know, in the top ten list of iTunes,

46:24

Like that's not gonna change the things

46:26

that go on with me mentally, right, that's just not

46:28

gonna do it. It's gonna feel good for a little

46:30

bit, but that's not that that's not what the game is

46:33

about, or it becomes a new addiction. Like

46:35

I mean, for me, when I was in m f A, the only thing

46:37

I wanted more than anything in the world is to be

46:39

a New York Times So like that's what I

46:41

wanted. And then as soon as I became a

46:43

New York Times bestseller, the thing that would

46:45

happen would be people would ask me, when

46:48

is your next book going to be a New York Times bestseller?

46:50

And then it became this this bar that

46:52

oh I gotta do it again, and I've got to perform

46:55

the trick again and again, and you get

46:57

on that hamster wheel and you forget

46:59

why you start a writing books in the first place. And

47:01

the truth was, when I started writing

47:03

books at sixteen, it wasn't because I didn't

47:05

even know what the New York Times best sellers was. When

47:07

I was sixteen, I was this blue collar kid

47:10

that had all these weird feelings going on. And when I

47:12

wrote words down in a notebook and made

47:14

those feelings go away and gave me relief.

47:16

And when I shared the stories

47:18

with my girlfriend at the time or my friends

47:21

and and they thought it was cool and maybe

47:23

you know, it made them feel a little bit better. I

47:25

I enjoyed that communion and I

47:27

do to this day. And when I get back to that,

47:30

that's when stuff starts feeling better mental health

47:32

wise, you know. And um and at these events,

47:35

you know, if I start looking at you know, where

47:37

my book is in the bookstore, or like, what's

47:40

the best seller or do people, yeah,

47:43

the the the the book owner like my

47:45

book. Because you can always tell when they, you know, they

47:48

instead of just saying there's somebody in

47:50

the audience right now, it's given me eye contact

47:52

the whole time, and they're getting something from what

47:54

I'm saying today. And it doesn't

47:56

matter if they bought a book, because I've

47:58

been given a lot and I'm

48:00

here to give back. I'm not here

48:03

to focus on sales

48:05

or all that other distraction that leads to misery.

48:07

I'm here to engage with my core values

48:10

with other human beings are going the

48:12

same stuff I'm going through on this, you know, Big

48:14

Blue Marble. And that's

48:16

when the anxieties starts to dissipate,

48:19

you know, And that's when you get on mission, You get

48:21

on point, and you just have to keep going.

48:23

But you gotta keep taking yourself back to that

48:25

good place of you know, what is

48:27

the thing that you really really want

48:29

to do? And you

48:31

know, again your show has been a great reminder of that.

48:34

And you know, even this interview, I had no anxiety

48:36

coming on this because it was something that I've really

48:38

wanted to do because I believe in the mission of

48:40

the show and I knew we were gonna have a great conversation

48:43

that I'm really enjoying it. So I didn't

48:45

feel any anxiety walking in here. And

48:47

that's how I know I'm the right question. I was

48:49

like, you know, I agree with you. Feel like, all right, I'm gonna

48:52

get to meet a friend. So yeah, it's

48:54

been a great talk. Thanks for coming on. Congratulations

48:56

on your success. The book is called

48:59

The Reason You Are a Live and it is really

49:01

great, so i'd encourage folks to check it out.

49:03

All right, thanks so much for coming by. Matthew. Hey, my

49:05

absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me. Bye.

49:24

If what you just heard was helpful to you, please

49:26

consider making a donation to the One you Feed

49:28

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