0:10

Welcome to the Ordinary Doula Podcast

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with Angie Rozier , hosted

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by Birth Learning , where we

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help prepare folks for labor and birth

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with expertise coming from 20

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years of experience in a busy doula

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practice , helping thousands of

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people prepare for labor , providing

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essential knowledge and tools for

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positive and empowering birth experiences

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.

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Hello and welcome to the Ordinary Doula podcast . I am your host , angie Rozier

0:55

, and we are sponsored by Birth Learning . So today we are going to discuss some normal

0:57

and realistic expectations for the second

1:00

day of life , especially in regards

1:02

to breastfeeding , for those who are planning

1:04

to do breastfeeding or chest feeding . So

1:06

our other episode . We talked about

1:09

the first day of life and babies

1:11

are super sleepy , and then the second

1:13

day of life is different altogether

1:15

. So on that second day of life

1:17

, babies kind of start waking up . They start

1:19

kind of being

1:22

more alert to their environment . That first

1:24

day they're exhausted , they're sleeping , and second day they wake up and it's kind of being more alert to their environment . That first day they're exhausted , they're sleeping , and

1:26

second day they wake up and it's kind of a night

1:29

and day difference and night and day

1:31

tongue in cheek , because their nights and days

1:33

are often mixed up . But

1:36

usually it's at about that 24 hour mark

1:38

to the time , the hour that they were born

1:40

, that they start to wake up and they might begin

1:42

cluster feeding . So this is latching

1:45

and wanting to eat and to suck frequently

1:47

, like maybe every 30

1:49

minutes . Maybe they just finish and they want to latch 10

1:52

minutes later . So we know they want to latch

1:54

, by them showing signs like they're rooting

1:56

around with their mouth , they're fussy

1:59

, they might be seeking

2:01

for some comfort , they might be

2:03

unsatisfied , and that's

2:06

all incredibly normal . But it feels so

2:08

stressful to parents who are already exhausted

2:10

and this is a very temporary

2:13

stage . I want people to know that day two is tough

2:15

. We call it . You know it's

2:17

a very challenging day really . And

2:19

this baby's hungry , this baby's ready for

2:21

the milk to come in . And all the actions

2:23

of the baby , this cluster feeding , the constant wanting to latch , is for the milk to come in , and all the actions of the baby , this cluster feeding , the constant

2:26

wanting to latch , is helping

2:28

that milk to come in . So ideally

2:30

that milk comes in between days two and

2:32

five , with an average of three . So

2:34

it depends on several factors

2:37

when that milk comes in . One of those factors

2:39

is the birth experience . If

2:41

this was a c-section , the milk might come

2:43

in a little bit later . If this was an

2:45

induction , that might delay lactogenesis

2:48

or milk coming in a little bit as well . The

2:51

best scenario for the milk

2:53

coming in smoothly and quickly is spontaneous

2:56

labor . So labor you just go into labor on your own

2:58

, but the milk still will come

3:00

in , of course . So we're

3:02

hoping by day three and this day two

3:04

helps that to happen . So

3:06

milk comes in a little more quickly for those who have lactated

3:08

before . And

3:11

skin to skin on this day is

3:13

going to be helpful too . So literally like no clothes

3:15

right , like baby has just a diaper

3:18

on baby's sitting on mom mom

3:20

doesn't have it . Maybe you know she has a . She can

3:22

pull a shirt around her and the baby or something . But spending

3:24

time skin to skin will help that

3:26

milk to come in . As the baby's trunk

3:28

and core of its

3:30

body touch the mom's breast , that teaches

3:32

the breast to make milk . So

3:34

go and take off those cute outfits and just keep that

3:36

baby skin to skin . The baby's

3:38

stomach volume by the time the milk comes

3:40

in you know we're hoping on day three or so is

3:43

the size of a walnut . So on day one it was

3:45

the size of a marble . Not a lot of food

3:47

can fit in that Walnut still

3:49

small , but a lot bigger than a marble . So

3:51

baby is wanting more , it's

3:53

ready for more and we still want

3:55

to be having eight to 12

3:57

feedings a day . But that cluster

3:59

feeding day there might be more . There might be

4:01

like 24 small feedings a day , which

4:04

feels unsustainable and thank goodness it's

4:06

very temporary . So

4:09

when that milk starts to come in , the

4:11

breasts may feel engorged , you're going to feel

4:13

some fullness , you may feel some tightness and

4:15

the baby's going to get more volume . Instead

4:18

of that awesome thick , yellowish

4:20

, goldish colored colostrum , we

4:22

start to get a thinner consistency

4:25

, whitish , even bluish , white

4:27

sometimes . Milk that comes

4:29

in . Now kind of cool to note that

4:31

the colostrum remains in the milk for

4:33

up to two weeks . We call that transitional

4:36

milk . What's transitioning from colostrum

4:38

to milk

4:40

? So we have colostrum in the milk for about two

4:42

weeks , which is kind of cool . Milk

4:45

so we have colostrum in the milk for about two weeks , which is kind of cool . So in these early days

4:47

of breastfeeding so day two is pretty early it can

4:49

take 30 to 60 minutes at the breast

4:51

to complete a feeding Super normal . That's

4:53

helping the milk to come in as well . The

4:56

dyad I call that the mom and baby team

4:58

the dyad learns what they're doing , so

5:01

later on that time

5:03

decreases dramatically . So

5:05

as I worked in lactation department in hospital

5:08

, we would come into rooms on day

5:10

two of life and

5:12

some people would say this baby wants

5:14

to latch all the time . I

5:16

can't keep them happy , I can't

5:18

satiate them , I can't keep this up , I'm going to

5:20

quit . Knowing not

5:23

knowing , rather that that's incredibly normal

5:25

. So I just I

5:27

hate for people to quit

5:29

because they don't have realistic expectations

5:32

and they don't recognize what's going

5:34

on is very normal and temporary . Key

5:36

to know that it's temporary will change . So

5:39

in the beginning we've looked at some data that

5:41

says the time at the breast

5:43

in the beginning takes

5:45

eight hours or more a day . Okay

5:47

, so that's like a full-time job if you think about it , and

5:50

it's not eight consecutive hours . Of course babies

5:52

like to eat around the clock , around that 24

5:54

hour clock , but as we look

5:56

at latching babies , helping

5:58

babies breastfeed , bring that milk in in the beginning , it's

6:01

eight hours a day or

6:03

more . As

6:06

we look at bottle feeding bottle feeding when

6:08

we include prep of the bottle

6:10

feeding , of the bottle washing

6:13

, of everything , bottle feeding takes about

6:15

six hours a day . So it does take less time

6:17

in a day than breastfeeding in the beginning . However

6:20

, breastfeeding the

6:22

time it takes to breastfeed often decreases

6:25

dramatically over a period of time over

6:32

a period of time . So it really can get down to where that is one hour a day of combined time at the

6:34

breast and there's no dishes to do , there's no bottle warming or bottle prep

6:37

to do , so that time decreases . Babies

6:39

spend a lot of time at the breast in the beginning to

6:41

help establish milk supply , help regulate

6:43

milk supply and learn what they're doing . Once

6:46

all that gets like

6:48

working like a well-oiled machine , babies

6:50

can get a full feeding , some babies in

6:52

10 minutes or less . So

6:55

keep that in mind , that this is all temporary

6:57

. Bottle feeding will

6:59

always take six hours a day by about four

7:02

to six weeks . That's where the breastfeeding

7:04

drops down and it can be as little

7:06

as one , one and a half hours a day , combined

7:08

time where bottle feeding will always maintain

7:10

that six hour level . So

7:12

one fun little trick to be aware

7:15

of as a baby's eating

7:17

kind of take note , watch the

7:19

baby's behavior and actions as they're eating those

7:22

newborns . They're pretty tight . Newborns have to like

7:24

uncurl for I think about three

7:27

weeks before they get

7:29

a . You know they're not so tight and their

7:31

eyes aren't closed all the time and they're all

7:33

drawn up into a little ball . They kind of uncurl for a

7:35

little while , unfold , if you will , and

7:38

babies have , if you look at their top arm , say

7:40

you're breastfeeding in the cross cradle hold or a football

7:42

hold maybe , but a place where you can

7:44

kind of see what their top arm is doing . Likely

7:46

in the beginning of a feed they're going

7:49

to have a fist . Their little hand will make a fist

7:51

and their arm will be tight . They'll

7:53

hold that arm tight into them so their elbows

7:55

completely bent and

7:57

as their little belly fills up , their hands

7:59

going to loosen , that fist will kind of let go

8:01

. That elbow will bend

8:03

out easily and loosely and

8:06

by the time their belly's full you can just pick

8:08

up the arm and it's . You can just drop

8:10

it and it'll be floppy , sloppy . You just

8:12

drop it and that baby . That's a fullness

8:14

indicator to know that they are getting enough . Because

8:17

sometimes it's difficult to measure intake

8:19

. Some parents obsess about

8:21

this . They know how much the baby weighs at

8:23

birth , they know the time the baby was born

8:26

, they know how many times the baby has to eat and how

8:28

long between feedings . But one thing

8:30

we don't know with breastfeeding is

8:32

the intake , what the baby's actually getting with

8:34

a feed . There are , however

8:36

, many ways to measure intake that

8:39

can put our minds at ease . So one of

8:41

them is output . If the baby's

8:43

having good output , good pees and good poops

8:45

in a day . Then we can be

8:47

assured that the baby's having good input , because

8:49

or else there would be no output . So

8:52

here's a fun little . I don't want to give you a

8:54

chart verbally , but it's

8:56

an easy little formula here . And

8:59

on day one , one pee

9:02

diaper , one poop diaper is normal . Day

9:05

two , two pee

9:07

diapers , two poop diapers is normal

9:09

. And realize , remember this poop will be that

9:11

tarry black meconium that's sticky , because

9:14

that's what the baby has in their system

9:16

when they're born . They've got to flush that out and

9:19

eating will help them do that . And

9:21

then , as the milk

9:24

starts to come in , that poop will transition

9:26

to that mustard seedy

9:29

type poop of breast milk poop

9:31

. But it'll transition first to dark

9:33

green and then it'll become orange

9:35

and yellow Kind of a cool process in your baby's diaper

9:37

, going on , okay . So day one

9:39

, one of each pee poop . Day

9:41

two , two of each pee and poop . And

9:44

this is within a small range . You know we're looking at two to

9:46

three pee diapers , one to two poop

9:48

diapers on day two . Day three , we're

9:51

at three each . Three to

9:53

four pee diapers , three to four

9:55

poopy diapers , that's , we're probably getting

9:57

that green poop by now . Day four

9:59

, we want four to six . We jump

10:02

now because hopefully the milk is in and there's a

10:04

lot more volume to that milk . We

10:06

want four to six pee diapers and four

10:08

to ten poopy diapers . And

10:10

sometimes a poopy diaper is a little tiny squirt . Sometimes

10:13

it's a massive amount that you're not

10:15

sure how that fit inside that little body . But

10:18

we're looking at more poopy diapers on day four

10:20

and after day four . Days four

10:22

, five , six , seven , eight , nine , 10 , for

10:25

the next several days we're looking at six

10:28

to eight pee diapers a day , four

10:30

to 10 poopy diapers a day and sometimes

10:33

it's a combo diaper , right ? Usually if they poop

10:35

they've also peed . So we can assume

10:37

that if they pooped they've also had urine

10:39

in their diaper . So newborns for

10:41

about that first month have a lot of diapers , like

10:44

12 a day is normal . You're changing

10:46

them and feeding them all of the time . That

10:48

also changes . That is temporary

10:51

, thank goodness . That will kind of slow down . So

10:54

another little . I'll give

10:56

you another little verbal chart . That's

10:59

kind of interesting to note these amounts

11:02

. That first day of life

11:04

baby's feeds . Each feed

11:06

is about two to 10 milliliters

11:08

. That's like drops , that's drops

11:11

. Days two

11:13

to four well

11:15

, on day two we want five to 15

11:18

milliliters per feed . So we're going

11:20

up , but still small . And then day

11:22

three we want 15 to 30

11:24

. We have a jump there . Now , remember , about

11:27

30 milliliters is an ounce . So

11:30

depending on if you're thinking about this with ounces or milliliters

11:32

, we're at about an ounce on

11:34

day three per feed and

11:36

then by day four we are one

11:38

to two ounces for a feeding . So

11:41

that's whether the baby's having bottles being

11:43

breastfed , getting formula being supplemented

11:46

, that's kind of what their feedings are

11:48

, and breastfeeding

11:50

is very dynamic . It's all changing all

11:52

the time . Day one is very different than day two

11:54

, week two is different

11:56

than week four , but we always kind

11:59

of look at those small

12:01

little steps that we can anticipate

12:03

getting to . I

12:07

also want to talk about a

12:10

weighted feed and what a weighted feed is

12:12

. A weighted feed you would do with

12:14

an IBCLC , so a lactation

12:16

consultant , and I've loved going

12:18

to people's homes and doing weighted feeds . That it

12:20

gives us a good picture of what's going on

12:22

. It is just a snapshot in time . It's important

12:25

to remember that just because at

12:27

11am on Tuesday the baby ate

12:29

60 ounces in 12 minutes . It

12:32

might not get the same 10 hours from now

12:34

, but it's a snapshot of the potential and

12:36

what's possible If we wanted to really

12:38

get an average of what the baby's

12:40

getting with every feed , we do a weighted

12:42

feed , every feed for

12:44

three days and that's a little bit

12:46

unreasonable to do as well . But

12:48

that weighted feed , what a lactation consultant will

12:51

do is weigh the baby on a gram sensitive

12:53

scale . So it's a very , very

12:56

accurate scale . To small amounts

12:58

we'll get the how many grams that baby

13:00

weighs before . Oftentimes I'll have

13:02

my clients strip the baby down to

13:04

just a dry diaper . So we're

13:06

, you know , we don't have any clothes on

13:08

. We don't want to weigh the clothes or anything

13:10

. We'll feed the baby A

13:13

lot of times . I'll do a feeding . If

13:15

the baby's eight on the right side

13:17

, we'll weigh between breasts

13:19

, between sides , so we can see how much the baby is

13:21

getting in a given amount of time

13:23

and on either breast as well

13:25

. So we get a total for what the baby's getting during

13:28

that time and that can be

13:30

really helpful information to know as well . So

13:33

keep a lot of these things in mind . Day two

13:35

is rough , and a lot of times the roughness

13:37

comes at night when the milk

13:39

comes in kind of changes everybody's world for the

13:41

best , and you

13:44

know then we have a challenge of engorgement . A new challenge

13:46

comes up . There's always kind of new challenges

13:48

as we work along . Some babies will

13:50

experience a challenge at two weeks

13:52

because the milk flow is

13:54

pushed by hormones . For about the first

13:56

two weeks Milk flow is just pushed out of the , out

13:59

of the breasts and by week two that

14:01

stops . The cycle

14:03

of the hormones has stopped quite a bit . It's a cool

14:06

system because it gives that baby

14:08

kind of some leeway for two weeks

14:10

as they're learning to breastfeed . But by two weeks we

14:12

want a baby who's able to pull milk out because

14:14

it isn't pushing as easily as it was in the beginning

14:17

. So some babies won't have their challenge

14:19

until that second week . Other

14:21

babies and other milk supplies might have

14:23

a challenge when the baby starts sleeping through the night a little

14:25

bit more . And there are tricks and

14:27

tips and little things you can shift

14:29

and strategies we can address to

14:32

face all of these challenges . So know

14:34

who your resources are in your area

14:36

where you live . Moms , sisters

14:38

, aunts , grandmas might be awesome resources

14:41

. And then there are professional resources

14:43

as well . Ibclcs

14:45

are great . I always like to have a good

14:47

IBCLC in my pocket . I've said for all

14:51

this time that I've been a doula and I

14:53

am an IBCLC now , so it's awesome to have

14:55

that information because it can be

14:57

so helpful . Just trying the right things , knowing

14:59

what to expect , can be pretty

15:01

awesome to help you be successful on

15:03

your journey . So we look at normal

15:06

gains for a baby up

15:09

to about four months . So , looking at 16 weeks

15:11

, we want that baby , after they've

15:13

gained their birth weight back , to

15:15

be gaining about an ounce a day . So that's

15:17

something else that an IBCLC can kind of help

15:19

you keep track of . Some slow gainer

15:22

babies can get away with gaining about half an ounce a

15:24

day , but we watch those babies pretty carefully . Some

15:26

babies gain two ounces a day . They're just super robust

15:29

and growing incredibly well

15:31

. So kind of keep those

15:33

things in mind . You can hop

15:35

on over to our website at birthlearningcom

15:37

. We do have some breastfeeding classes

15:40

that are all pre-recorded . You can watch in

15:42

the comfort of your own home . They cover

15:44

a whole lot of basics before a baby's born

15:46

talk about latch , how to do paste bottle

15:48

feeding , a lot of the normals and

15:50

what to expect . So that breastfeeding class

15:52

is available at our website and

16:00

I hope that helps you . I hate to see people struggle and not know that there was help

16:02

to have and some simple things they could do to help themselves . So please get help wherever

16:04

you are . Hopefully this has been helpful for you . Thanks

16:07

for being with us here on the Ordinary Dealer Podcast

16:09

. This is Angie Rose , your host , and

16:11

I hope you have an amazing day . Go do something

16:13

that inspires you today . Seek

16:15

for someone , something , a sight , a vision

16:18

, something you see , someone

16:20

you talk to , that just inspires you and helps make you

16:22

feel good . Reach out to someone else and make their life

16:24

a little better today as well . Hope you have a good one

16:26

and we'll see you next time .

16:37

Thank you for listening to the Ordinary Doula

16:40

podcast with Angie Rozier , hosted

16:42

by Birth Learning . Episode credits

16:45

will be in the show notes Tune

16:47

in next time as we continue to explore

16:49

the many aspects of giving birth

16:51

.