0:00

Hello everyone, it is I, McSullivan.

0:03

I'm bringing you good news. March

0:06

3rd is the anniversary of the Kentucky Meat

0:08

Shower. You know,

0:10

that weird event from 1876 that I wrote a

0:12

book about, and I also did an episode way

0:14

back when about as well. Well,

0:17

I'm going to read that book live on YouTube

0:20

Live, as I've done for the last few years.

0:22

It's a very fun day. We're gonna do it

0:24

on March 3rd at 5 o'clock

0:27

Eastern Standard Time. It's a Sunday,

0:29

just a Sunday evening. I'm

0:32

gonna be live on camera with the book,

0:34

and I'll act goofy, I guess. Probably,

0:37

I don't know, we'll see what happens. But I'll read

0:39

the book and we'll talk about the Meat Shower,

0:41

and we'll all ponder what a

0:43

strange occurrence that really was. I'd love it if

0:45

you would join me. It's always been a lot

0:47

of fun. I'm looking forward to it. So,

0:50

you can find the link on the

0:52

website, thepastinthecurious.com, either on

0:54

the Meat Shower tab or halfway down the homepage.

0:58

Or you can just go to

1:00

thepastinthecurious.com,/the Meat Shower, or

1:02

you can just find my YouTube page and it will be there

1:04

as well. So, March 3rd, I'll

1:06

see you. Or you'll see me.

1:08

I probably won't be able to see you. Anyway,

1:11

looking forward to it. Calling

1:16

all trivia nerds, Brittany here, and I host

1:18

the Family Road Trip Trivia Podcast with my

1:20

best friend Meredith. Is your next car ride

1:23

looking like a snooze fest? We've

1:26

got The Cure. Three rounds of

1:28

awesome trivia every week. Harry Potter,

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Disney, science, sports, you name it.

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No more silent car troubles. The Family

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Road Trip Trivia Podcast. Connect, laugh, and

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learn with your kids, big and small.

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New episodes every week wherever you get

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your podcasts. Search for the Family Road

1:45

Trip Trivia Podcast. You're

1:47

listening to an Airwave Media Podcast.

1:55

Hello, everybody. It's Mick Sullivan,

1:57

and this is The Past

1:59

and Life. curious. First

2:01

off, I want to say thank you to

2:03

everyone who I saw

2:06

and met in Boston. That was so

2:08

much fun to be at WBUR and

2:10

thank you to WBUR for the awesome

2:13

podcast festival and met some great friends. Holy

2:15

cow, the people from the Big Fib were

2:17

awesome too. I really liked that show. So

2:20

shout out to them. But shout out to everyone that

2:22

I met. Thank you so much. It meant the world

2:25

to me and I had a blast and I'm

2:27

hoping to see you next year. Wink wink

2:29

nod nod. I think I'll be back.

2:32

So make your plans. This

2:35

episode is about two fun stories,

2:37

two fun theme subjects, cheese

2:40

and donuts, both of which

2:42

I like a lot. At

2:45

the end, stick around and I'll tell you a fun

2:47

donut story that I have to share with you, something

2:49

that me and my friends do. Anyway,

2:53

let's not put this off any longer. Party

2:55

on. Historically

3:06

speaking, being mayor of Nottingham

3:08

in England has come with

3:10

some strange hazards. Yes,

3:13

it's the legendary home of outlaw Robin

3:15

Hood, who stole from the rich and

3:17

gave to the poor as he struggled

3:19

with his nemesis, the sheriff of Nottingham.

3:21

But a few of the town's mayors

3:23

have had to deal with their own

3:26

peculiar challenges. Instead of

3:28

dodging arrows from a legendary man in

3:30

green, they were

3:32

more concerned with dodging wheels of

3:34

cheese. I'm not talking about little wheels

3:36

of Brie or Colby rounds that you might

3:38

grab at the grocery store and tote home

3:40

with little effort in a shopping bag. I'm

3:43

talking about massive cheese wheels, so

3:46

bulky that if they bounced into a

3:48

bull, they'd leave the bovine with a

3:50

bruise as big as a bookshelf. Some

3:54

of these wheels are actually called truckles.

3:56

That's the term for a cheese wheel that is

3:58

taller than it is while Imagine a

4:01

large barrel. Now imagine

4:03

it's made of cheese. Now

4:05

imagine you're really, really, really hungry. Hmm, doesn't

4:09

that cheese sound good? Now

4:12

imagine you can't have it, and you're so hungry that

4:14

a fit of anger compels you to roll it at

4:16

the mayor of your town. If

4:19

you hit that civic leader, well,

4:21

that hefty hunk of circular cheese might

4:23

send them to the hospital. Getting

4:27

trucked by a truffle of cheese is

4:29

a potentially deadly, but deliciously

4:31

strange thing to happen. Luckily

4:35

for Nottingham's Lord Mayor, Mohammed

4:37

Saghir, the cheese rolled

4:40

at him in 2016 was in

4:42

celebration. Or at least

4:44

in remembrance of an event that happened in Nottingham

4:46

250 years prior. The

4:50

Cheese Riots of 1766. Mohammed

4:56

Saghir was never really in much

4:58

danger. It was a

5:00

different story for the Lord Mayor of

5:02

Nottingham back in 1766. And

5:06

legend has it that this poor dude

5:08

was like a human bowling pin bowled over

5:10

by a cheese bowling ball. I guess

5:13

more accurately, to repeat it, he

5:16

was trucked by a truffle. Ah,

5:21

the goose fair. Like

5:23

many fairs of the past, the

5:25

air around Nottingham's goose fair

5:28

was filled with the delightful

5:30

smells of livestock and

5:32

cheese. For

5:35

as long as anyone remembers, and

5:37

certainly much longer before that, the

5:40

goose fair has been bringing crowds

5:42

to Nottingham. The official record

5:44

states it began in the 1200s, but

5:47

most likely it was a thing long before that. And

5:50

the goose part of the goose fair is

5:52

because it used to be where farmers from

5:54

miles around would bring their cramps, their livestock,

5:56

and their other wares for trade. It

5:59

was October. And people were going to

6:01

need a lot of food to get them through the

6:03

long English winter. So

6:06

thousands of geese were marched from

6:08

all directions into the fair for

6:10

sale. And there were other

6:12

things too, all sorts of crops and of course

6:15

cheese. Gigantic jumbo sized

6:17

wheels of it. And in 1766

6:21

people, all of whom had been

6:23

goose fest regulars for most of their lives, showed

6:26

up to the October fair with

6:28

some expectations. And among those expectations

6:31

was one that cheese prices would

6:33

be similar to the price of cheese

6:36

from years before. People

6:38

of Nottingham thought the price of cheese

6:41

would be stable. Were

6:43

they right? They were worse

6:45

than right. They were

6:47

wrong. Now

6:50

it's important to understand that there were no grocery

6:52

stores in 1766. And

6:54

in a place like Nottingham, England, you had

6:56

to plan well when it came to feeding

6:58

your family for a winter season. Most

7:01

people had limited budget and what they

7:04

didn't grow or raise for themselves, they

7:06

needed to trade or purchase. And

7:08

without the grocery store, one had to buy

7:10

things at these festivals and fairs. Sort

7:13

of like an old time farmer's market. But

7:16

instead of a loaf of artisanal bread, a

7:18

dozen farm fresh eggs and a cup

7:20

of local coffee, people had

7:23

to buy in large quantities. Hence

7:26

the truck tire sized wheels of cheese

7:28

and flocks of geese. There

7:31

are some other things about 1766 that you should know. First

7:34

and foremost, it was a lousy year

7:36

for crops. Not just in

7:38

Nottingham and not just in England, but all

7:40

over Europe. And the lack

7:42

of decent crops would become a problem for

7:45

millions of people all over the continent. So

7:48

people weren't exactly in a sharing mood. And

7:50

you might ask, well, if England is short on

7:53

food, certainly they wouldn't expect

7:55

anyone to share. But what about buying

7:57

more food? That's how supply and

7:59

demand works. works, right? Couldn't people

8:01

in England buy from somewhere else? Certainly

8:03

someone was looking to make a book.

8:07

Well, that's the other part of what you should know. This

8:09

is just after the Seven Years' War,

8:12

which was a series of wars spanning

8:14

both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, including

8:17

the French and Indian War and the

8:19

Anglo-Spanish War. It

8:21

basically pitted Great Britain against

8:24

everyone else, so when England

8:26

was in need of food, the

8:28

rest of Europe wasn't really interested in

8:30

helping them out. And when

8:33

there's not very much food, the price

8:35

of food goes up. And in Nottingham,

8:37

there weren't many crops, but there still

8:39

was a bunch of cheese. That was

8:41

their thing. But the

8:43

price of cheese went up a lot too,

8:46

over double the price of what it was the year

8:49

before. So imagine the feelings

8:51

people must have felt, the cheeseless

8:53

anger that rose up inside them.

8:57

So yeah, the first problem was that the

8:59

cheese cost way more than it ever had.

9:02

The second problem that soon developed was

9:04

that food shortages weren't just

9:06

an issue in Nottingham, as we've already

9:09

learned. So merchants from other towns, knowing

9:11

that Nottingham farmers were sitting on some

9:13

big cheese, came to buy it and

9:15

take it back to their town, where

9:17

they'd mark it up for more money and

9:20

sell it to their clientele. This did not

9:22

make the folks of Nottingham very happy at

9:24

all. No, uh, that's

9:27

our cheese. I

9:29

purchased it fair and square. It's my

9:31

cheese. You couldn't even afford it. A

9:33

group of men who have forever been

9:35

remembered in the history books as rude

9:38

lads began to surround

9:40

some of the merchants and before long

9:42

a struggle began. In other parts

9:44

of the goose fair, more rude lads got

9:46

between the truffles of cheese and the out-of-towners

9:48

hoping to take it away. Some

9:51

real nice cheese you got there. Be

9:53

a shame if something happened

9:55

to it. Something happened

9:57

to it? Is that a threat? What

10:00

could happen to it? Well, two

10:02

things. One, it

10:04

could end up in my belly for a fair

10:07

price. Or two,

10:10

it'll go rolling down the streets

10:12

bound for who knows where. Such

10:15

a rude lad. Yeah, I hear that's what

10:17

they're calling us now. Hello,

10:19

Mr. Farmer. I'm here for my

10:21

cheese. Here's a big stack of

10:24

money. Wait, why are

10:26

you rolling it down the street? You lads are

10:28

being very rude. Rude?

10:30

Yep. Hungry and mad?

10:32

Double yep. You, my

10:34

friend, have a cheese riot on your hands.

10:38

Before long, cheese was everywhere.

10:40

Rhymes hurled through shop windows,

10:42

truffles in every direction. It

10:45

was curd chaos, a

10:47

bedlam of brie. It

10:50

was unpasteurized pandemonium.

10:53

With the cheese flying this way and that, the

10:55

mayor arrived on the scene to try to

10:58

settle everyone down. But it

11:00

was too late. The cheese riot was in

11:02

full effect. It is

11:04

said that one particular truffle of cheese knocked

11:06

him on his rear as he attempted a

11:08

bit of dairy diplomacy. But

11:10

it was hopeless. One of the

11:13

out-of-town cheese merchants was able to sneak to the river with

11:15

a wagonload of cheese wheels. In

11:18

a haste, he waved a small fortune in

11:20

the face of a boatsman to take he

11:22

and his cheese elsewhere. Anywhere.

11:25

Together they loaded the vessel, and

11:28

as they worked their way through the

11:30

load, they heard a posse approach. Hey,

11:33

Dad, that's the rude lads. Where

11:35

you going with that cheese? Uh, nowhere.

11:37

Then what's it doing on the boat? Just thought

11:39

we'd take it for a ride. A

11:41

cheese ride? I don't think so. And anyway,

11:43

your boat captain just ran off and left you.

11:45

So you're toast. Say,

11:48

you guys don't seem so rude.

11:51

You seem like nice lads, actually. How's

11:53

about I sell you this cheese for the

11:55

same price you paid last year? I'll take

11:58

the log. My

12:00

treat. We don't like nodding

12:03

ham cheese leaving nodding ham. Okay,

12:06

I'll see myself out. Okay, that's

12:09

fine. Leave the

12:11

cheese. The cheese riots

12:13

went on for days, and in many

12:15

cases it turned violent. The military was

12:17

actually called in to put an end

12:19

to a goose fair that had gotten

12:21

out of control. Clearly people

12:23

were very angry about food from their

12:26

town being sold for prices they couldn't

12:28

afford to people from other towns who

12:30

could afford it. I would

12:32

never condone violence personally, but I

12:34

would condone fairly priced cheese. So

12:37

it's easy to see their point, but

12:39

still not be on board with their

12:41

cheese rolling mayor squishing methods. Speaking

12:45

of rolling cheese, injuries, and

12:48

England, there is another

12:50

annual event tangentially related, and

12:52

it's one of my favorites.

12:55

About 100 miles away, the Cooper's Hill

12:57

cheese rolling and wake brings

13:00

hundreds to the English countryside each

13:02

year. Most

13:04

watch, and the fearless participate.

13:06

If you don't know what it is, a

13:09

group of people wait at the very top of

13:11

a steep hill until a

13:13

wheel of double-gloucester cheese is let

13:16

loose to roll down the hill at a greater

13:18

and greater speed. At

13:20

once the chaser speed down the

13:22

hill after it, often tumbling head

13:24

over tail, ducking and cannonballing and

13:26

slipping and sliding their way all

13:28

to the bottom. The person

13:31

who catches the wheel is the winner. It

13:34

is absolutely bananas, and to give you

13:36

an idea of how dangerous it is,

13:38

the organizers just go ahead and have

13:41

ambulance crews and medics waiting at the

13:43

bottom. People are going

13:45

to need them. They do every year.

13:49

It's typically every May, and this year in 2024, it will

13:51

be on May 27th, so keep your eyes

13:56

peeled for press coverage. But

13:58

don't get any big ideas. I

14:00

don't think anyone listening should go chase the cheese.

14:03

Luckily for those of us who do like cheese,

14:05

there is plenty of it available. You don't have

14:07

to chase it. You can find it pretty much

14:09

anywhere you'd think to look. And

14:11

usually for a fair price. Hey

14:18

grown-ups, my family is always very happy

14:20

when there is a green chef box

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14:48

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14:52

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14:55

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15:00

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and I explore and share amazing details

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about the many animals we share our

15:50

world with. Plus, Chris and I

15:52

are both PhD scientists and educators. So

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we do the deep dives in the

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scientific research and then come back and

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share what we learn and learn. Fun and casual

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other scientists, animal experts, activists

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and many other conservation uzi

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as from all. Over. The Planet

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so you can find the all creatures park

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as wherever you get your podcast. Will.

16:16

All right now it's time for you Have

16:18

thirty seconds and this month still be Burners

16:20

has a good one for us. Take it

16:22

away. To make minimum

16:24

of the and I'm gonna tell you

16:26

that Mary Jane worse than up salary

16:29

James Marsden, Alice from Intelligences One on

16:31

April Third and Nineteen Eighty Four in

16:33

London England as testing the working with

16:35

animals and asked us to differ Gonna

16:37

sit on a boat as ending in

16:39

Nineteen Sixty Two lifted the chimpanzees the

16:41

did he is as studying their behavior

16:43

isn't more than sixty or so years

16:45

and Jane and still live in and

16:47

is involved in many conservation projects. I

16:49

love your protests by. Our think

16:51

Sylvie and great work that was really well

16:53

put together really well with really you did

16:55

a great job delivering at way better than

16:57

I was able to say up and level

16:59

of ablow right? Know you are very clear

17:02

I was not. Hats off to you. If

17:04

you have a you have a you have

17:06

a you how are you have a thirty

17:08

seconds you can send it to hello with

17:10

the past and the curious.com distant. Voice.

17:12

Memo message will do you tell you

17:14

need love it Thank you very much.

17:17

Things. Again, silly. Or

17:20

wonder what time it. Yeah,

17:32

it is good time. I've got two

17:34

questions about she's. And one

17:37

about donuts. So the first question

17:39

than I have for you is

17:41

which state in America is responsible

17:44

for producing the most sees? This.

17:47

One kind of easy. Surprise,

17:55

it's Wisconsin. Add.

17:57

just getting wisconsin is of course the answer

17:59

with com like super famous for

18:01

making cheese. But I found it interesting

18:03

to learn that the second place state

18:06

is California. Okay question

18:08

number two. Below

18:10

the ground somewhere in America, limestone

18:13

caves that are kept at

18:16

36 degrees have kept

18:18

America's cheese surplus safe. Hundreds

18:21

of thousands of pounds

18:24

of cheese. And what

18:26

state are these

18:28

cheese caves in? No

18:34

it's not Wisconsin and it's not

18:36

California, but it is in fact

18:38

Missouri. Near Springfield actually.

18:41

It began when there was a

18:43

cheese shortage in the 1970s, oh

18:45

that's scary, that resulted in skyrocketing

18:47

cheese prices. That sounds

18:49

familiar. But instead of dodging cheeses

18:51

from angry crowds, the American government

18:53

boosted production by putting money into

18:56

the dairy industry, which lowered prices

18:58

but also meant they made more

19:00

cheese than they actually needed. Waste

19:03

not want not. So currently there

19:05

is lots of cheese underground for preservation

19:07

and to be used when needed. Okay

19:12

now it's time for your third

19:14

and final question. Which

19:16

city in America has the

19:18

most donut shops per

19:21

person? Hello

19:26

Boston! I love you and

19:28

congrats by the metrics I

19:30

found. You have one donut

19:33

shop for every 2,480 people.

19:36

And I guess it makes sense when

19:38

you hear the story that we're going to be

19:40

telling in just a moment. I

19:43

was just in Boston and I didn't eat any

19:45

donuts. What was I thinking? Quincy,

19:55

Massachusetts is only about 11 miles

19:57

south of Boston, which means it's

19:59

a of that big American

20:01

city today. Once upon a

20:03

time though Quincy was a town

20:05

miles away from Boston just like many

20:08

other cities along the East Coast. Quincy

20:11

does have the unique claim

20:13

however of producing two American

20:15

presidents John Adams and

20:17

his son John Quincy Adams. Also

20:21

in Quincy is a graveyard the

20:24

Snugg Harbor Sailor's Cemetery

20:27

and in that cemetery is a headstone that was

20:29

replaced in 1982 after being missing for who knows

20:32

how long

20:34

and if you ever happened by for a

20:36

visit to that headstone you might

20:39

want to take a few donuts along with you. You

20:41

wouldn't be the first. I

20:44

have seen pictures of plenty of people eating

20:46

a doughnut over the grave of

20:49

Captain Hanson Crockett Gregory.

20:52

Captain Gregory's true impact on the

20:54

world is shrouded in mystery but

20:57

he has been called the inventor of

20:59

the doughnut. Now

21:02

that's a hard title to claim. There's

21:05

actually evidence of doughnut like foods going

21:07

back centuries and centuries and

21:09

in cultures all over the world. If

21:12

Captain Gregory has a claim on

21:14

anything and it's still up for

21:16

debate it's probably more of

21:18

what he left out of the doughnut. You

21:21

see maybe just

21:24

maybe he's the reason

21:26

that we have a hole in the

21:28

middle of our doughnuts today but

21:30

even that is tricky to nail down. Ancient

21:37

Rome, Asia, Native America

21:39

all of these are places and cultures that

21:41

may have had something like a doughnut on

21:44

their menus at one time or another. But

21:47

many of the people who explore the history

21:49

of food today zero in on some Dutch

21:51

bakers in New York City. Once

21:54

upon a time in the 1600s the Dutch

21:57

were the most powerful colonists in New York

21:59

City. City, which was actually

22:01

called New Amsterdam at the time. When

22:05

England took over and called it New York,

22:07

many Dutch remained, and many

22:09

more arrived over the years. At

22:13

some point, a food that they

22:15

called Olykokes started to

22:17

find their way into people's mouths. Olykokes

22:22

in Dutch is very close

22:24

to its English translation, Oily

22:26

Cakes. It

22:29

doesn't sound terribly appetizing, I know. But

22:32

supposedly they were made of leftover dough

22:34

that bakers may have had from other

22:36

jobs. And the dough would just

22:38

be fried in hot oil or lard, and

22:40

enjoyed maybe with honey or

22:42

sugar. So, you know, kind

22:45

of close to a doughnut, but

22:47

definitely more lump-like with

22:49

shape. And

22:56

maybe it's something like this that wound

22:59

up on Captain Gregory's ship in the

23:01

mid-1800s. There

23:05

are a bunch of stories about the captain's

23:07

connection to doughnut lore. So

23:09

let's start with the most popular one. It

23:12

was 1847, and

23:15

Captain Gregory was at the helm of a

23:17

ship at sea. In

23:19

late one evening, he was enjoying one

23:21

of his favorite snacks, a

23:24

big old Olykoke, while he was

23:26

steering the ship with the

23:28

pilot's wheel. Surely

23:30

you've seen something like it, a large wooden

23:32

wheel with spokes and handles radiating from the

23:35

center. And these outer handles

23:37

are how someone steering the ship would turn

23:39

the wheel, which was much larger

23:41

than the steering wheel of the family car.

23:44

Well, according to the story, Captain Gregory

23:47

was having a pretty breezy evening munching

23:49

on Olykokes with one hand and

23:52

steering the ship with the other, at

23:54

least until things went from breezy

23:56

to queasy in the blink of an

23:58

eye. When a strong

24:01

stormy squall seized the ship, snack

24:03

time was spent. Dangerous

24:06

waves and wild winds threatened the

24:08

vessel, but still he didn't

24:10

want to toss the tasty treat overboard

24:13

or else lose it in the fierce wind and

24:15

rocking waves. But he

24:17

needed two hands on the wheel. It

24:20

was a real dough dilemma, and

24:23

looking at the handles on the wheel, he

24:25

saw the solution. He

24:27

slammed the round dough treat onto one

24:29

of those handles, which poked a hole

24:31

in the dough and kept

24:33

it safe and nearby. Maybe

24:36

every time he turned the wheel, he'd take a bite

24:38

as it passed his face. It's

24:41

hard to imagine a more dramatic creation

24:43

story for the doughnut. Oh,

24:47

Captain, my Captain, our

24:50

fearful trip is done. The

24:52

ship has weathered every rack and the prize

24:54

we sought is won. The

24:58

dough is done. Frosted

25:00

fun. And no

25:03

one's empty-handed, and we all

25:05

rejoice with the taste and

25:07

where the whole has landed. Apologies

25:11

to Walt Whitman, you know, the

25:14

guy from episode 86. This

25:17

is all really funny to think about, but

25:19

there are some clear problems with this

25:21

story. First, those wooden

25:23

pilot wheel handles are pretty

25:25

big, and they typically flare

25:27

at the top. So, unless

25:29

his oily cake was super-duper

25:31

jumbo-sized, it certainly would

25:33

have been obliterated when it slammed down

25:36

onto the handle. More troublesome

25:38

to the storyline is the fact that handsome

25:41

Gregory was born in 1831, and everyone

25:45

seems to agree that the idea of a doughnut came

25:47

around 1847, even the man himself, which

25:51

means he would have been 16 years

25:54

old at that time, and he

25:56

most certainly was not the captain of a ship at the age

25:58

of the age of 18. age of 16. Another

26:03

more believable story says his mom didn't

26:05

want he and his little seafaring friends

26:08

to go hungry out there on the

26:10

ship, so she baked

26:12

whole-less donut treats for the entire

26:14

crew. And they loved

26:16

most of these donuts, but everyone

26:18

hated the center. This

26:21

is because when cooking in hot oil or

26:23

lard, the dough in the

26:25

center would not reach the same

26:27

internal temperature as the sides, so

26:30

while the outer circle part of

26:32

the dough would get bready and

26:34

donutty delicious, the center would remain

26:36

uncooked dough. And that's

26:38

not good eats. Captain Gregory

26:40

actually claimed at one time that the heavy

26:43

raw dough was not good for

26:45

swimming. And swimming is an

26:47

essential skill for a man at sea. Help!

26:50

I've fallen overboard! And

26:52

I can't swim! You can't swim?

26:55

I've seen you swim. What's going on? I

26:57

mean I can't swim right now. I've

26:59

eaten too many donuts. And

27:03

all that uncooked middle dough feels like land

27:05

in my belly. I'm afraid I'm gonna sink.

27:08

Help! Very well. Someone

27:10

throw him that life buoy, which looks kinda

27:13

like... Hey. Now

27:17

don't get me wrong. It wasn't the round hole

27:20

of a life buoy that would lead to the

27:22

donut's shape. But in this

27:24

second story, the hole came from

27:26

the goal of saving money. So

27:29

hearing the complaints, Captain Gregory's mother

27:31

tried to solve the gooey uncooked

27:33

donut center by putting

27:35

things like hazelnuts, which didn't

27:37

require cooking, in the

27:39

center to displace the dough. That

27:42

way you'd eat all the cooked dough

27:44

and then there'd be a little nutty

27:46

surprise for you hiding inside instead of

27:48

the uncooked gooey dough. Some

27:51

people will even tell you this is why they are called

27:53

donuts. Because they

27:56

were dough with nuts in the center.

27:59

But I'm not one of those people. So

28:01

in this story Gregory thought that these

28:04

nut-filled donuts were good, but

28:06

too expensive because of the additional

28:08

cost of the nuts. So

28:11

he suggested leaving the

28:13

middle out entirely, just

28:15

to save money. In

28:17

1916 an elderly Captain Gregory, now

28:20

with a lifetime at sea, well

28:22

behind him, was interviewed in Quincy,

28:24

Massachusetts. And to many,

28:26

this third version of the story that

28:29

he told solidified his claim as

28:31

the pioneer in donuts with

28:34

holes. And it had nothing

28:36

to do with pilots wheels or saving money on

28:38

nuts, and instead it had

28:40

everything to do with

28:42

digestion. Now while the

28:44

other dialogue in this episode

28:46

is dramatized and fictitious, what

28:49

follows are Captain Gregory's words

28:52

as they appeared in the

28:54

Washington Post. Now

28:57

in them days we used to cut

28:59

the donuts into diamond shapes and also

29:01

into long strips bent in half and

29:03

then twisted. I don't think we

29:05

called them donuts then, they were just fried

29:08

cakes and twisters. Well sir,

29:10

they used to fry all right around

29:12

the edges, but when you had the

29:14

edges done the inside was all raw

29:16

dough. And the twisters, they

29:18

used to sop up all the grease just where they

29:20

was bent and they were tough

29:23

on digestion. Well, I

29:25

says to myself, why

29:27

wouldn't a space inside solve

29:29

the difficulty? I

29:32

thought at first I'd take one of the strips and

29:34

roll it around. Then

29:36

I got an inspiration, a

29:38

great inspiration. I

29:41

took the cover off the ship's tin pepper

29:43

box and I cut into the

29:45

middle of that donut the

29:47

first hole ever seen

29:49

by mortal eyes. Well

29:53

sir, them donuts was the finest I ever

29:55

tasted. No more indigestion,

29:57

no more greasy sinkers. just

30:00

well done fried through donuts.

30:03

Less indigestion made for more productive

30:06

sailors and a more

30:08

enjoyable dining experience all around.

30:12

By the time of the American Civil War, round

30:14

donuts with holes became fairly

30:16

common. But

30:18

they wouldn't be a major part

30:21

of history until another war. In

30:23

1917, the year after

30:25

Captain Gregory's interview, America

30:28

sent troops to Europe as World

30:30

War I ranged. The

30:32

Salvation Army sent support to the

30:34

places American soldiers were stationed on

30:36

the battlefront. This

30:38

support included teams of women known

30:40

as the Donut Lasses. Supplied

30:43

with the ingredients and basic necessities

30:46

to cook, they kept spirits up

30:48

with thousands of donuts. They

30:51

often made 9,000 donuts each

30:53

day for the so-called American

30:55

Doughboys to eat. Upon

30:58

the end of the Great War, and with

31:00

much thanks to the returning donut enthusiasts, donut

31:03

fever grew. In

31:05

1920, a Russian immigrant in America

31:07

named Adolf Labet invented

31:09

the first donut making machine,

31:12

which would eventually make him a millionaire.

31:15

This machine would of course lead to the

31:17

rise of donut shops all over the country.

31:20

There were independent shops, as there still

31:22

are today, and then there

31:24

came chains. First Krispy Cream

31:26

founded by a Kentuckian, and

31:28

then Dunkin Donuts. The

31:31

first Dunkin opened, where else, but

31:33

in Quincy, Massachusetts, the final

31:36

resting place of Mr. Donut

31:38

Hole himself, Captain Hanson Gregory.

31:42

At some point, his headstone mysteriously disappeared.

31:45

But years later, in 1982, a new

31:48

one was created, and the founders

31:50

of Dunkin Donuts paid for it.

31:53

It reads, Captain Hanson

31:55

Gregory, recognized by

31:58

the American Bakers Association, as

32:00

the inventor of the donut. It's

32:03

pretty clear that he was not exactly that, but

32:05

he was probably, in one way or another,

32:08

the dude who put the hole in the

32:10

donut that you see today. Well,

32:19

okay, thank you for listening to this

32:21

episode about cheese and donuts. And

32:23

I think this is episode number 92, so

32:25

we're just cranking through them. It's been a

32:28

long road. Before I move on with

32:30

the thank yous and I have a song, I

32:33

promised you I'd tell you a little story about donuts, right?

32:36

So a couple years ago, friends and

32:38

I were having a discussion and turned

32:41

into a disagreement over who had the

32:43

best donut in our town.

32:45

There's a lot of independent and unchained

32:48

donut bakeries. There were more chains at

32:50

the time. We

32:52

couldn't agree on who made the best donut,

32:54

so we decided to settle

32:56

it scientifically. We started

32:59

an event called the Donut Challenge, and we have

33:01

done it every year, probably for about 10 years

33:04

now. It's probably getting close to 10 years. So

33:06

now it's turned into this family thing that we

33:08

all do. And what we

33:10

do is we pick six bakeries, and

33:13

from each six, we get plain

33:16

donuts, like glazed. We get chocolate donuts, and

33:18

then we get dealer's choice, right? So

33:21

we cut them into bite sizes, you

33:23

know, judge who's impartial. We'll cut them into

33:25

bite sizes. So we have just a table

33:27

full of donuts, and

33:31

everyone tastes all of

33:33

the three varieties from six bakeries. When

33:36

you add it all up together, it equals about three

33:38

donuts. It sounds like a lot, but that's how it

33:40

works. And then what we do is, you

33:43

know, we score them, and

33:45

then those scores are compiled and averaged.

33:47

And then we award a prize for

33:49

best glazed donut, best chocolate donut, best

33:51

dealer's choice donut. Again, that's the baker's

33:53

choice. And then

33:56

the best overall bakery. And it is so

33:59

much fun. families look forward

34:01

to it every year. It's a nice

34:04

Saturday morning. We get together, it's kind of

34:06

a brunch. There'll be fruit salad and all

34:08

sorts of other things, but it's really about

34:10

the donuts, the donut challenge. So it's a

34:12

big fun thing. We started it, but hey,

34:14

if you want to give it a shot

34:16

where you live, you got some nice bakeries

34:18

and you're not sure who's the best. It's

34:20

a great reason to get people together and

34:23

eat some donuts and hang out. It's a lot of fun.

34:26

We'll actually be doing ours this year on June

34:29

1st. Our date moves a lot, but if you

34:31

want to join in on June 1st, wherever you

34:33

are in the world, then hey, let

34:35

me know that you're doing a donut challenge of

34:37

your own. That would be super cool. Okay.

34:40

On with the thank you. Catherine

34:47

Rose Goodnuber in

34:50

Ohio. Hello to

34:52

you and thank you for enjoying the

34:54

show. I'm so glad that you are

34:56

out there listening. I

34:58

hope this episode makes

35:01

you happy. I hope every episode makes you

35:03

happy, but thank you for your support, Catherine

35:05

Rose. And I have

35:07

another person to thank and that would

35:09

be Cora Alonzo out in sunny California.

35:12

Cora Alonzo, how does it feel to

35:14

be living in the number

35:16

two cheese producing state in the United

35:18

States? I bet it feels good. Cora

35:22

Catherine Rose. Thank you

35:24

so much. And that's not all. I

35:26

have a special birthday song for

35:29

Wesley who just turned nine this

35:31

month. I believe from Massachusetts.

35:33

Didn't we meet at the, at

35:35

the WBR festival Wesley? Yeah.

35:37

Didn't let you in on this, but got you

35:39

a little song. Heard you were named after an

35:42

album that I like. So I kind of mimic

35:44

that album a little bit. And,

35:46

uh, well, here we go. Happy birthday,

35:48

Wesley. Wesley

35:52

Harding del Carpini was

35:54

skiing really fast over

35:58

the snow. You'd watch it. But

36:00

don't blink or his path.

36:16

He plays the drums, he has two

36:19

thumbs And if you give him some

36:21

numbers, he's gonna give you a thumb

36:23

That's just the way he is

36:28

Doing cool stuff just

36:33

like this Oh

36:50

Wesley Harding del Carpini

36:52

goes Lying

36:54

by his path. Don't

36:57

blink your eyes or you'll miss

36:59

him when he goes Hi

37:18

friends, are you looking for a new podcast?

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Maybe something you can share with your littles?

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Something that has some storytelling in it? Well

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then look no further, we have story time

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37:35

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37:37

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37:39

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37:41

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