0:00

I'm Joe Graydon.

0:01

And I'm Terry Graydon. Welcome to

0:03

this podcast of the People's Pharmacy.

0:05

You can find previous podcasts

0:08

and more information on a range

0:10

of health topics at Pharmacy

0:12

dot com. For

0:15

thousands of years, humans have

0:17

used herbs to help us Healing,

0:19

now science shows us how herbal

0:21

treatments work. This is

0:23

the people's pharmacy with Terry and

0:25

Joe Graden.

0:34

Many

0:34

of are unfamiliar with the research

0:37

that's been conducted on mechanical medicines,

0:40

but scientists are increasingly discovering

0:42

how these compounds work.

0:46

Doctor Turunid Lo Dog has been studying

0:48

the science supporting Therapies

0:50

for decades. She's one of the country's

0:52

leading experts on botanical medicines.

0:55

We'll also

0:55

talk with doctor Bill Ross

0:58

about how Ernst can support cellular

1:00

wellness. He'll explain which herbs

1:02

he takes daily and

1:03

why. Coming up on the Pharmacy,

1:06

we will explore the healing power

1:08

of herbs.

1:14

In the People's pharmacy health headlines,

1:17

the effects of a COVID infection can

1:19

last a surprisingly long time.

1:22

The CDC estimates that twenty

1:24

percent of adults suffer from neurological

1:26

symptoms months after their recovery.

1:29

Trouble concentrating, insomnia, nerve

1:32

tingling, depression, anxiety,

1:34

and headaches are all common

1:36

complaints. Now

1:38

scientists have used MRI imaging

1:41

to compare the brains of thirty healthy

1:43

individuals to those of forty

1:45

six people who recovered from COVID.

1:48

The imaging was conducted within six

1:50

months of recovery. It detected

1:53

significant differences in specific

1:55

areas of the brain, particularly

1:57

the frontal lobe and the brainstem.

1:59

In this study, the researchers did

2:02

not investigate function However,

2:04

they plan to follow-up with this patient

2:06

cohort to see if the differences

2:08

apparent in their brain images are

2:10

reflected in cognitive performance.

2:13

Another study published

2:15

in Plus one involved four

2:17

hundred volunteers. Researchers

2:20

at Hull York Medical School in the

2:22

UK administered an

2:24

online survey and memory quiz

2:26

called Corona. That stands

2:28

for COVID-nineteen online rapid

2:30

objective, neural memory

2:32

assessment. Objective

2:35

memory scores were significantly

2:37

lower among people who had caught COVID

2:40

nineteen. Younger people under

2:42

the age of twenty five did not appear to

2:44

be impaired. The lead

2:46

author summed up the results. quote.

2:49

What the study demonstrates is that

2:51

COVID-nineteen negatively impacts

2:54

memory or short term memory function

2:56

but only in adults aged twenty

2:58

five years and over. For

3:01

quite some time, scientists have been

3:04

trying to learn how older people can maintain

3:06

their memories better. Results

3:08

from one study called the rush

3:10

memory and aging project suggests

3:13

the diet can make a difference.

3:15

The researchers recruited nine hundred

3:18

sixty one Chicagoans between

3:20

the ages of sixty and a hundred.

3:22

These volunteers answered dietary questionnaires

3:25

every year and completed numerous

3:27

cognitive tests to assess

3:30

nineteen different abilities. Investigators

3:33

analyzed the results for seven consecutive

3:35

years and found that

3:37

individuals who ate moreflavanol

3:40

rich foods had slower

3:42

cognitive decline. The

3:44

specific flavonols that seemed to matter

3:46

most were camphorol and quercetin

3:49

Foods rich in

3:50

these flavonols include kale,

3:53

tea, beans, spinach, broccoli,

3:57

wine, tomatoes, and

3:58

oranges.

3:59

The study didn't prove that a flavanol

4:02

filled diet will help preserve memory,

4:04

but it does suggest a possible

4:07

tasty path to better brainpower.

4:09

Tens of millions of Americans

4:12

take non steroidal anti inflammatory

4:14

drugs like ibuprofen proxins,

4:17

selococcal, diclofenac and

4:19

meloxicam to ease joint

4:22

pain. A new study presented

4:24

at the annual meeting of the Radiological Society

4:26

of North America suggests that

4:28

could pose problems. Although

4:31

such drugs may ease pain in the short

4:33

term, The radiologist warn

4:35

that long term use could damage

4:37

cartilage and increase inflammation.

4:39

Two hundred seventy seven volunteers

4:41

with osteoarth arthritis of the knee

4:44

had been taking NSAIDs for at least

4:46

a year. The control group

4:48

of seven hundred ninety three individuals

4:50

were not taking these anti inflammatory

4:52

drugs. After four years,

4:54

those who had been taking NSAIDs were

4:56

in worse shape than the control group

4:59

They had less cartilage and more inflammation

5:01

based on MRI images. The

5:04

bottom line seems to be that non steroidal

5:06

anti inflammatory drug should be used

5:08

cautiously by patients with

5:10

osteoarthritis. Pregnant

5:12

people often experience lower back

5:14

or pelvic pain as the pregnancy

5:17

progresses. This poses a dilemma

5:19

since medications used to alleviate

5:21

pain may not be safe for the

5:23

developing fetus. An analysis

5:26

of ten randomized controlled trials

5:28

with a total of more than one thousand participants

5:31

looked at the effectiveness

5:32

of acupuncture for

5:35

pain relief. The results

5:37

indicated significant pain control

5:39

from acupuncture. In

5:41

addition, the analysis did not identify

5:43

any serious health risks for the

5:45

mother

5:45

or the newborn. The

5:48

researchers cautioned

5:48

that the methodology and quality of

5:50

studies

5:51

was quite varied and urged further

5:53

research.

5:54

That's the health news

5:55

from the people's pharmacy this

5:57

week.

6:14

Wellness to the People's Pharmacy. I'm

6:16

Joe Gradeon. and I'm Terry

6:18

Graydon.

6:19

Medical education emphasizes

6:21

pharmaceuticals. Very

6:23

few doctors are knowledgeable about the power

6:26

of herbs to help us heal. We're

6:28

fortunate today to have two

6:30

outstanding physicians who have studied

6:32

the science of plant based medicines.

6:34

Later in the show, we'll

6:36

talk with Dr. Bill Rawls about his

6:38

new book, The Cellular Wellness

6:41

Solution. First though, WE'RE

6:43

TALKING WITH DR. TORONNE LODOG.

6:45

SHE'S A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN BOARD OF

6:47

PHYSICION SPECIALties, AMERICAN

6:49

BOARD OF INGRATEIVE MEDICINE and

6:51

the Academy of Women's Health. Doctor

6:54

Load Dog's ebooks include

6:56

healing heartburn naturally and

6:58

spices that heal.

7:01

Welcome back to the People Pharmacy,

7:04

doctor Tirona LoDOG. Thank

7:06

you. It's a joy to be with you again.

7:09

Doctor Low Dog, you have written

7:12

another book called spices

7:15

that heal, ten healing

7:17

herbs and spices, and the science,

7:20

that's really important, the science that

7:22

supports them. And I guess I'd like

7:24

to start with a really simple

7:26

But complicated question, what's

7:29

the difference between an

7:31

herb and a spice?

7:34

Well,

7:34

you know, there's a lot of overlap there.

7:36

But in general, if you think of

7:38

your culinary

7:40

herbs

7:40

being things that are you

7:42

know, woody and leafy.

7:44

So, oregano and basil

7:47

and sage and thyme. And if you think of

7:49

your spices as being from the more

7:51

exotic sort of

7:53

seeds and sparks, things like

7:55

star anise, cinnamons. These

7:58

are more exotic types

8:00

of spices. People use them

8:02

interchangeably. I tend to use

8:04

spice when I'm really talking more

8:06

about the plant that are

8:08

barks and seed pods, and then

8:10

the culinary HErbs, I generally

8:12

refer to them, and they are generally referred

8:14

to in the trade. as those

8:16

that are soft, herbaceous plants

8:19

that that we're using. And I

8:21

think people are very familiar

8:23

with the culinary herbs because we use

8:25

them a lot. But

8:26

also, people know about the exotic spices,

8:28

cinnamon being one of the most popular

8:30

in American use. Now, of

8:32

course, there is some overlap, and I'm

8:34

thinking about turmeric because in

8:36

India, it is used

8:38

as, I guess, I'll call it a

8:40

culinary spice, and it's used in

8:42

cooking all the time in But

8:45

now, here in the United States is

8:47

probably being used more as a

8:49

supplement for

8:51

anti inflammatory purposes. and

8:53

people think of it now, maybe

8:56

partly as an an HErbs preparation

8:58

that will relieve their aches and pains.

9:00

HErbs one of the most popular

9:03

supplements right now in the

9:05

United States. And of course, it is a

9:07

spice, a tropical, you know, most of these

9:09

spices come from tropical areas

9:11

and turmeric is just

9:13

amazing for so many

9:15

things. For gut I

9:17

take it personally for my

9:19

own, you know, aches and pains and

9:21

joint things, you know, just getting older and and

9:23

sort of the the wear and tear on joints.

9:25

but its effects on the

9:28

gut are profound, and

9:30

we're learning so much about

9:33

how turmeric when it consumed

9:35

in food or when

9:37

people use it as a supplement that

9:39

it has a very healing effect

9:41

on the gut tissue and it's very

9:43

supportive of a healthy gut microbiome.

9:46

When my mother had been

9:49

treated for her colon cancer,

9:50

so she went through conventional treatment

9:52

and

9:52

had come through on the other side,

9:55

she

9:55

had a lot of

9:56

disruption in her colon from

9:58

the surgery and the chemotherapy in

10:00

radiation. In addition to probiotics,

10:03

I put her on curcumin.

10:05

And, you know, she had very advanced

10:07

colon cancer, and I don't I think

10:09

there's many things including the treatment she

10:11

had, but she told me that

10:14

years and years and years later, she lived

10:16

twenty two years beyond her

10:18

cancer She said that she thought that

10:20

the turmeric was one of the things that

10:22

had made the biggest difference in

10:24

getting her her

10:25

gut back into working order.

10:28

Many

10:28

people find that turmeric can

10:30

be a healthy part of of

10:32

maintaining good digestive function.

10:34

And I would encourage people to include it

10:36

in their cooking. I throw it in

10:39

tomato soup, and I throw about a half a

10:41

teaspoon in per can of

10:43

turmeric, and it gives it a

10:45

lovely flavor But also, if you're

10:47

thinking about half a teaspoon, you're getting, you

10:49

know, fifteen hundred to two thousand

10:51

milligrams in turmeric and just

10:52

your bowl of soup. So

10:53

there's a lot of ways to

10:54

integrate it into cooking as

10:56

well as, you know, considering to take

10:58

a supplement if that's what you're more drawn

11:01

to. Now, ironic when you

11:03

mentioned the supplement, you said curcumin.

11:06

And I think we

11:08

need to be very explicit that

11:10

this is one, but only one

11:12

of the many ingredients in

11:14

turmeric. Right? Absolutely.

11:16

Kirk Schibman is sort of the collective

11:18

word that we use for a group

11:21

of these yellow pigments that

11:23

exist in in turmeric. Its

11:25

botanical name is Kirkuma. and

11:27

curcumin takes its name

11:29

for these compounds from the botanical

11:31

Wellness And when you think

11:34

about a plant, curcumin, or

11:36

these yellow pigments, probably

11:38

contribute greatly to the overall

11:40

effect of turmeric, but there are many other

11:43

components of turmeric that matter and

11:45

that also contribute to its

11:47

overall healing effects. So

11:49

it's why when you cook with turmeric,

11:51

you're getting everything. And if

11:53

you're buying a supplement, you'll find

11:55

that many of them mix both

11:57

what we call a standardized extract

12:00

so they contain ninety five

12:02

percent curcumin, so it's been really

12:04

spiked to have a lot of curcumin in

12:06

it. But

12:06

it also will probably include

12:08

a number of hundred to sub milligrams of

12:10

just ground turmeric

12:12

rhizome. People also call it a root.

12:14

It's it's more technically a rhizome. It's an

12:16

underground stem. But

12:18

when you blend both of those

12:20

together in a supplement, what happens is

12:22

you're getting a nice big dose of the

12:24

curcumin, but you're also

12:26

getting everything else that was

12:28

in

12:28

the whole turmeric

12:30

underground part. So I I do

12:32

recommend those type of supplements. I think they're

12:34

better because you're getting more representative

12:36

of what's actually in turmeric. But curcumin

12:38

is the part of

12:40

the rhizome that has been most heavily

12:43

studied, and we do believe that though

12:45

that group of compounds I'll

12:46

make up a considerable part of the

12:49

medicinal effect of

12:51

turmeric. Now,

12:52

doctor LoJack. you

12:54

have this lovely book, this spices

12:56

that heal book, and I

12:58

fear that most Americans

13:01

take spices for granted these

13:03

days. But if you

13:05

go way back, you know, climb

13:07

into the way back machine, maybe

13:09

six thousand years or

13:11

so, it turns out that

13:13

our stone age ancestors

13:17

actually prized spices.

13:20

We can go to the supermarket and buy

13:22

just about anything for a few

13:24

bucks. But there was a time

13:26

when, you know, the Venetian traders

13:28

got very, very

13:30

wealthy because of things

13:32

like cinnamon and thyme and cumin

13:34

and dill and mint and coriander. You

13:36

know, they use spices

13:38

for more than just flavor, they they were preserving

13:41

meat and fish. In

13:43

Egypt, they were preserving Mummies

13:45

People's. Exactly. And in

13:48

India, they've used garlic and

13:50

ginger and turmeric and cloves to

13:52

preserve. So give me some

13:54

sense of the importance of

13:56

spices over the

13:58

centuries, over the millennia.

13:59

the Today,

14:01

we have refrigeration. We

14:03

have ways of preserving our food.

14:06

We're we're able to can. We're

14:08

able or jar. However, you wanna

14:10

call it, But people today,

14:12

we have so many ways of preserving

14:14

food, and we have access to twenty four

14:16

seven in the United States. to

14:18

grocery stores where we can purchase our

14:20

food. If you go back in

14:22

time, preservation was

14:24

far more limited. People's could

14:26

salt their food, they could jerk

14:28

their meat, you know, over a

14:30

fire. But let's make no mistake.

14:33

Food was not well preserved and

14:35

often would would be foul. So

14:38

people would add spices, when

14:40

they would add culinary HErbs, it

14:43

enhanced the flavor, but many

14:45

of these spices and herbs also

14:47

prevented rancidity of

14:49

the soup. that it helped the food

14:51

be preserved for longer periods of

14:53

time.

14:53

So for me,

14:55

the spices and herbs, their

14:58

value their value is

15:00

so

15:01

profound.

15:02

And when you come to modern

15:05

times, I have to say that we're

15:07

looking at stensibly at these

15:09

plants, at these group of highly

15:11

aromatic plants

15:12

for their health benefits.

15:14

Not only are they looking at them in food,

15:16

the food industry. So food the food

15:18

industry continues to look at how to incorporate

15:20

these into modern foods for

15:23

preservation, for taste, flavor,

15:25

mouthfeel, etcetera. but we're

15:26

also looking at them for their

15:27

medicinal activity. These

15:29

compounds inside of

15:32

these highly aromatic plants

15:34

Many of them are what we call synolic

15:36

compounds, and they have

15:38

profound bioactivity.

15:40

Many of them are potent antiseptic

15:43

anti microbials, many of

15:45

them have powerful antioxidant

15:48

activity. And so when we're,

15:50

you know, profound effects on

15:51

the gut microbiome. Many

15:54

of them can cross across the go

15:56

across the blood brain barrier, so they

15:57

have effects

15:58

on cognition

15:59

and mood and possibly on,

16:02

you know, as we age preserving

16:04

our cognition. So for

16:06

me, I believe that, you know, if

16:08

you had to place a bet on

16:10

where we could find some of

16:12

the most powerful compounds in

16:14

nature,

16:14

what you would look towards

16:17

outside of mushrooms and other things like that.

16:19

But in the plant world, you

16:21

would look for these highly

16:23

aromatic plants and and

16:25

really begin to look at them in

16:27

their totality to find

16:29

new and novel ways to use

16:31

them. But it is for me, you

16:33

know,

16:33

why people need to cook more

16:36

with spices

16:36

and include them in their

16:39

diet. Everybody knows the Mediterranean

16:41

diet and they and they think it's

16:43

olive oil and, you know, and fish.

16:45

I

16:45

would contend that

16:48

they have some of the heaviest

16:49

uses of culinary herbs

16:51

of any diet in that region

16:53

They use Rosemary's and

16:55

thyme and basil, garlic's

16:57

and onions. I mean, they use a ton

16:59

of the Allian vegetables as well as

17:01

herbs and and and also spices.

17:03

And I believe that that's also what

17:05

contributes to many of the health benefits

17:07

that we see with people that

17:10

consume a Mediterranean diet across

17:12

their lifetime. Here in the United States,

17:14

when I was growing up, it was mostly

17:16

salt and pepper. occasionally

17:18

catch up in mustard. And

17:20

that

17:20

was sort of what people used

17:22

for spicing their food, which

17:24

which I think is

17:27

Too much

17:27

salt is not good. People's

17:30

fine. But, boy,

17:31

if you really wanna change up

17:33

your diet, you know, get some

17:35

spices into your into your daily

17:38

meals, buy some more ethnic

17:40

cookbooks,

17:40

Indian cookbooks, Mediterranean

17:43

cookbooks. I

17:43

have a whole array of cookbooks

17:45

that I use so that I

17:47

am able to, you know, incorporate many of

17:50

these spices and herbs into

17:52

our daily meals. You're listening to

17:55

doctor Tyrone LoDOG, founding

17:57

member of the American Board of Integrated

17:59

Medicine. she was elected chair

18:02

of the US pharmacopoeia dietary

18:05

supplements, Botanicals expert

18:07

committee. Her books include spices

18:09

that heal.

18:10

After the break, we'll talk more about some

18:12

of our favorite spices. Time

18:14

and Rosemary have medicinal benefits.

18:16

What should be know about

18:18

them? Saffron is another spice that serves as a botanical

18:21

medicine. Sometimes

18:21

spices are confusing. There are

18:23

several different types of cinnamon, for

18:25

example, Which one might you use

18:28

for wellness?

18:34

You're

18:39

listening to

18:39

the Peoples Pharmacy with Joe

18:41

and Terry Grady.

18:43

This

18:44

podcast is made possible

18:46

in part by Gaia

18:48

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18:50

years, Gaia Herbs has NURT the

18:52

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18:55

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19:03

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Gaiaherbs dot com that's GAI

19:12

aherbs dot

19:13

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19:14

Welcome

19:20

back to

19:23

the Beatles Pharmacy. I'm Joe Gradeon,

19:25

and I'm Terry

19:26

Gradeon. People's

19:29

Pharmacy has brought you in part by

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CocoVilla, maker of high

19:33

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19:56

Today, we're talking about the power

19:58

of HErbs for

19:59

optimal wellness. We may take

20:02

kitchen herbs like rosemary and

20:04

thyme for granted. as flavoring

20:06

agents, but research shows they

20:08

can also affect our health.

20:10

Our guest is doctor Turoni

20:12

LoDOG. founding member of the American

20:14

Board of Integrated Medicine, she

20:16

was elected chair of the US Capia

20:19

Dietary Supplements Botanical Expert

20:21

Committee and was appointed to the scientific

20:24

advisory council for the National Center for

20:26

Complementary and Alternative Medicine.

20:28

Her books include Life as

20:31

your medicine and fortify your life,

20:33

your guide to vitamins, minerals, and

20:35

more. Doctor

20:37

LoJack, we'd like to ask you about

20:40

some very specific spices.

20:43

And one of our favorites is

20:46

time. I put a lot of

20:48

time in something I made yesterday, and

20:50

it was delicious, but

20:52

what are we getting? What benefits

20:54

might we be getting in addition to

20:57

that lovely thyme flavor? One

20:59

of the things that I use time the

21:01

most for is respiratory problems.

21:03

When people have colds and

21:06

congestions and cough, time

21:08

is exceptional. What it

21:10

does actually is

21:12

sort of thin the thin

21:15

the mucus making it a little easier to

21:17

expectorate, but it also

21:18

stimulates the little silly or the little

21:20

hairs that bind the

21:23

respiratory tract increasing

21:24

their their beach and their

21:26

upward movement so that

21:27

it can move mucus and up and out

21:29

of the chest. It

21:31

is one of the most popular herbal combinations in

21:34

Europe, time when it's blended

21:36

with IV or Primrose.

21:39

When you go to any pharmacy

21:41

in Europe, you will find this combination,

21:43

but make no mistake. It's time

21:45

that's really having the primary

21:47

activity there. In

21:48

Germany, it is still recognized

21:51

as an over the counter treatment

21:53

for a whooping cough, for

21:55

that really severe cough that individuals

21:58

can get. It

21:59

is

21:59

good for the mood.

22:01

We know that one of the

22:03

constituents in the volatile oils

22:05

can increase dopamine and

22:07

serotonin at least in animal

22:10

models, and these are brain

22:13

chemicals that increase our sense of wellness and

22:15

happiness and joy. And

22:17

isn't it interesting that two thousand

22:20

years ago,

22:20

the Greeks and the Romans were

22:22

writing about its ability to

22:24

lift the mood and to

22:26

make people more joyful.

22:28

So, you know, time is in

22:31

blistering. It is a powerful

22:33

antiseptic. It was used

22:35

in sick rooms to fit

22:37

strong teas were used to wash down the

22:40

rooms during the war just like

22:42

Rosemary was.

22:43

So tying when we think of

22:45

its antioxidant activity, when we

22:48

think of its mood lifting

22:50

activity, and we think also of

22:52

how it can benefit the respiratory and

22:54

digestive system, I

22:55

just think this is one that everybody should

22:57

have in their home and the

22:59

nice thing is that thyme can be purchased

23:02

fresh at almost any grocery

23:04

store and you can make a very

23:06

simple thyme cough syrup

23:08

you know, for just a couple

23:10

of dollars. And, boy, does it

23:12

taste good and does it work? It's

23:15

a wonderful coffee remedy.

23:17

Now,

23:17

Torena, you mentioned Rosemary.

23:20

We interviewed a physician, a

23:22

pretty standard

23:25

issued doctor who A cardiologist,

23:27

actually. his wife had gone to

23:29

Italy

23:30

and had

23:31

studied a little village there,

23:34

and they kept going back because the

23:36

people in this village lived to

23:38

ninety and a hundred and

23:40

over a hundred, and they were they were

23:42

doing great. I mean, physically

23:44

and mentally. And he

23:46

thought Rosemary was one of the key

23:49

spices that was maybe

23:51

maybe

23:52

contributing to their longevity. And

23:55

so I'd like to your

23:57

perspective on Rosemary, not

23:59

just as a spice in

24:01

food, but also some of

24:03

the science behind the health benefits.

24:06

Yeah. the

24:06

herb of remembrance. I

24:09

mean, kind of

24:11

interesting that Rosemary has

24:13

long been associated with

24:15

memory and cognition. And today,

24:18

researchers are actually looking at this

24:20

in elders, you know, people seventy five

24:22

years and older

24:23

and looking to see if it has

24:26

any positive benefit

24:28

on on their

24:28

ability to remember on, you know,

24:31

memory on short term memory and

24:33

recall And

24:33

actually, there is research in human

24:35

elders that has shown this to

24:37

be true. Now, for me, I look at

24:39

this and say, oh

24:40

my gosh. you know,

24:43

isn't

24:43

it fascinating that twenty five years, a

24:45

hundred years ago, people were talking

24:47

about this from memory.

24:50

Now, Rosemary, so this could be one

24:52

thing when people are concluding this in their

24:54

diet over a long period of

24:56

time. How that may be preserving

24:59

cognition. Right?

24:59

Just over a lifetime, it

25:02

boosts

25:02

your mood and attention. So,

25:04

Rosemary, the essential oil

25:06

I used to just keep some in the car

25:08

with me. And when I would

25:10

be driving home late at night

25:12

after being on call, If I

25:14

was feeling tired, I would just open

25:15

that little bottle and sort of inhale the

25:18

rosemary, which then made me

25:20

feel more awake.

25:21

Rosemary is

25:23

kind of like a stimulating essential

25:25

oil, if you will, in that way, kind of

25:27

helping to awaken and help

25:28

with focus. I

25:30

use rosemary oil extensively in

25:32

my massage oils because

25:35

rosemary is very good for aches

25:37

and pains and joint pain.

25:39

It's like all

25:40

culinary HErbs. It's excellent for,

25:43

you know, helping to fight off

25:45

minor infections. It's a

25:47

good anti Krobial. It's a wonderful anti inflammatory.

25:49

I mean, when you just think about it, you

25:51

know, and even down to h pyloriya,

25:54

a organism that's

25:55

associated with ulcers

25:57

as well as potentially gastric cancer,

25:59

Rosemary rosemary

26:01

inhibits the growth of h

26:04

pylori. So imagine people

26:06

that are just consuming this on a

26:08

regular

26:08

basis, like where your cardiologists

26:12

friend

26:12

wins where people are

26:14

including Rosemary on a regular

26:17

basis, think about over decades

26:19

and decades of consuming something

26:21

that has all of this bioactivity

26:23

for the

26:24

brain, for mood, for

26:26

tamping

26:26

down inflammation, which has

26:29

been associated with cardiovascular

26:31

disease and, you know, and cognitive

26:33

decline as well in elders, I

26:35

think he may be onto something Rosemary

26:37

is not used as often in

26:40

American cooking as it is in

26:42

Mediterranean dishes. But

26:45

boy, for A lot of

26:47

carrots and and for meat dishes and

26:49

savory

26:49

dishes, Rosemary really comes

26:51

into its own. It's a

26:53

wonderful plant. And one, you know, if you have one out

26:55

in your garden, you can bring it in and winter

26:57

it over. If you the r's

26:59

don't last here where we live, so we

27:01

bring our Rosemary plants

27:03

in and pop them, and then I decorate them

27:05

for Christmas. But

27:06

I love rosemary. I love

27:08

the smell of rosemary.

27:10

I

27:10

love the history of it, and

27:13

certainly, I love the research behind it.

27:15

So the research

27:17

that gives a

27:18

voice to what people

27:20

knew more than two thousand years ago. Oh, well, I think

27:22

that

27:22

was Shakespeare, wasn't it who said,

27:24

there's Rosemary. That's true. HErbs

27:27

Remembrance,

27:27

but he got that

27:30

he got that from

27:31

almost fifteen hundred years before

27:34

where people were using it in

27:36

the Mediterranean country's

27:39

because they believed that it helped with

27:41

memory, especially as we got older.

27:44

Now, tyranny, we want to

27:46

talk about something else,

27:49

another Mediterranean herb

27:51

HErbs is not that widely

27:54

used in the US. The

27:57

other evening, Joe, took me out to dinner. We

27:59

went

27:59

to a restaurant that

28:02

has outdoor seating because were

28:04

still in COVID, and they do

28:07

Mediterranean type food.

28:09

This evening, they were doing a

28:11

special on Bahia. So

28:14

we enjoy the paia.

28:16

Right. And

28:17

one

28:17

of the things about paia that

28:20

makes it different from

28:22

rice with shrimp in it

28:25

is the saffron. What can you tell

28:27

us about saffron? Oh, what

28:30

a gorgeous beautiful plant,

28:32

you know, inexpensive because saffron

28:35

saffron requires actually

28:37

humans to cultivate it

28:39

for it to continue to

28:41

survive

28:41

as a plant. And all

28:42

the stigmas, the the little parts that

28:44

we use, those beautiful little stigmas that you

28:47

get when you buy saffron. Those

28:49

have

28:49

to be gathered by

28:50

hand. They must be gathered in the field

28:52

by hand in the morning when they're harvested.

28:55

Safran is this amazingly

28:57

main beautiful, yellow

29:00

colored, highly aromatic plant

29:02

that people have

29:03

been using. I want you to think

29:06

you know, just about how it

29:08

was revered throughout

29:10

the

29:10

Middle East and in India

29:13

and many parts of the world where it grew,

29:16

but it it really comes to its own in the

29:18

Middle East. Safran

29:21

today has so much research behind

29:23

it looking

29:24

at its benefits for

29:27

mental health.

29:28

particularly for depressed

29:31

mood and for, you know,

29:33

people struggling with with minor

29:36

depression but also looking at it for

29:38

elders. There's been several studies looking at

29:40

it for memory and for

29:42

helping to preserve cognition

29:44

as we get older. it's

29:46

been used in the Middle East as

29:48

an herb for sexual

29:51

dysfunction, for people

29:53

as they age that may have more difficulty

29:57

with, you know, sexual pleasure

29:59

and

29:59

their libido That also

30:01

is interesting

30:02

because Safran was associated

30:05

with one of the Greek goddesses

30:07

actually that was associated with

30:10

with love and sexual pleasure almost

30:12

four thousand years ago. So

30:14

when you look at modern research

30:17

there is a tremendous amount

30:19

being published today looking

30:22

at the health benefits of

30:24

Safran. from everything, from inflammation

30:27

and

30:27

antioxidants to

30:29

its effect on mood and

30:32

depression, possibly cognition and elders. this

30:34

other part intriguing me

30:36

around, you know, women as they

30:38

move beyond menopause. Many of

30:40

them ask me if their herbs that they

30:42

can use to help them

30:44

just continue to feel

30:46

sexual pleasure.

30:47

And Safran now has, I

30:50

don't know, five or

30:50

seven studies looking at

30:53

this showing that there is benefit. So

30:55

I I love saffron, and

30:57

I also love paella. And boy,

30:59

when you cook with saffron,

31:00

the whole our whole

31:02

cabin, smells

31:03

now delicious.

31:05

Now, one thing

31:08

that we discovered is that

31:10

there's a fair amount of

31:12

research five or six studies, maybe even

31:14

more a dozen, that

31:16

look at Safran as

31:19

a supplement, for macular degeneration.

31:21

Yeah. Have you seen anything of

31:23

that? Yeah. Well, these pigments,

31:26

these these these pigments, lutein,

31:29

astaxanthin, ziazantin, many

31:31

of these flavonoids actually have a

31:33

very protective effect on the eye. And of

31:35

course, saffron contains these compounds. And

31:38

so you know, that is, you know, eye health,

31:40

another one that Safran

31:42

can benefit. And and there's also,

31:44

you know, some research on it for metabolic

31:47

syndrome. that we're looking at for

31:49

its effects on cholesterol and

31:51

lipids and

31:51

blood sugar. I tell

31:54

you, Safran, twenty

31:55

years ago, there wasn't much

31:57

research, Terry. There just there wasn't much

31:59

research out

31:59

there. And there's just been

32:02

this huge growth in

32:04

looking at Safran for its health

32:06

benefits. And, you know, I

32:08

think the main issue here is that

32:10

Safran is an expensive spice

32:13

If you've purchased it at the store, you know that.

32:16

And also, it can be a little bit

32:18

expensive as a supplement. Beech

32:21

careful with buying the supplements. You wanna

32:23

make sure you're buying from a good

32:24

brand because we have seen a culturation in

32:26

the market, which

32:27

always comes when you have

32:30

a

32:30

spice that has to be handpicked,

32:32

has to be dried, that these

32:34

are going to command a higher price, and

32:36

adult duration can happen. So just if you're

32:38

using it as a sub shipment, make sure

32:40

you're buying from reputable brands to make

32:43

sure you're getting what you paid for.

32:45

Doctor LoDOG,

32:46

I was surprised

32:49

to see in your new book,

32:51

star Annis. Now,

32:53

I know Teri sometimes

32:56

Cooks with star Annis. And in fact,

32:58

we just ran out. It's time for me to

33:00

buy some more. But I suspect

33:03

that most people

33:05

probably aren't that

33:07

familiar with it, and

33:09

don't know about the science

33:12

behind star, Anise. Can you give us a

33:14

little insight on a, what it looks

33:16

like, b, how you would

33:18

use it when you're cooking, and

33:20

of course, c, the scientific

33:23

basis for health benefits. Oh,

33:25

I love star

33:26

Annis, and people should get familiar

33:28

with it. I mean, I want you to think of

33:30

its name, Alyssia. I mean,

33:32

what its botanical name actually means

33:35

is

33:35

seduction. Seduction

33:37

because it

33:39

has this

33:40

incredibly seductive aroma.

33:43

It is such a wonderful

33:46

aromatic plant. It looks like a little

33:48

star. Right? It looks like

33:50

a little like, you know, six to eight pointed

33:52

star where you see it. It's from an

33:54

evergreen tree. And if you've had much

33:56

Vietnamese cooking, You've

33:58

probably had it. It's also in a number of,

34:00

you know, Indian blends and in Chinese

34:02

five spice. I love it. Star

34:05

Annis is wonderful

34:07

for digestion. So, you know, throwing it

34:09

in

34:09

your soups and stews, think of it like

34:12

bay leaves. actually,

34:13

you know, so when you cook with bay leaves, when you're making stew or a big

34:15

soup, you'll remove them at the end. It's the

34:17

same thing. We

34:17

throw star anise, we'll throw one

34:19

of these large you

34:22

know, sort of seed pods into the

34:23

stew and you'll let it cook for a few hours and

34:25

then you'll remove it before serving because

34:27

it stays hard. Right? You wouldn't wanna you

34:29

wouldn't wanna eat it.

34:32

so good for gas,

34:34

for bloating, indigestion, you

34:36

know, any of those things. Great

34:39

for sore throats, if you've

34:42

got a cough, if you've got

34:44

colds, any of the respiratory kinds of

34:46

problems that people have. There is

34:47

some pull in dairy data actually looking for,

34:49

you know, as we age, it actually may help with

34:52

our cognitive decline. I mean,

34:54

so that's also an interesting one

34:56

for me. And

34:58

then,

34:58

you know, topically, it's

34:59

a wonderful antiseptic, and it's

35:01

used like tea tree oil is

35:03

in many ways. It's

35:05

very good for you know, acids, foot, or

35:07

ringworm, or any of the kinds of things that you would typically

35:10

think of like a a tea tree

35:12

oil for.

35:14

So I love it. And in my book,

35:15

I give a recipe for Chinese marbled

35:17

eggs, which I serve whenever

35:19

we have guests I love

35:21

to I love you know, it's just you make hard boiled eggs

35:23

and then a mixture with like tamari and

35:26

black tea and star anise and you

35:28

cook them. and

35:29

you get this beautiful

35:31

marbling effect on these hard boiled eggs.

35:33

They just look divine. I mean,

35:36

they're they just look

35:38

so beautiful. But for me, star Anise is is absolute

35:40

wonder for

35:42

cooking and especially

35:45

and soups and stews, but also in

35:48

meats, savory dishes. When you're

35:50

cooking

35:50

something savory, think about

35:52

star, Annis, it really

35:54

comes into its own there, but

35:56

a medicinal powerhouse. A medicinal powerhouse.

35:59

Dr. Load Dog I

36:01

really would like to get

36:03

your insight on cinnamon. And the

36:05

reason I ask about

36:08

cinnamon is because there's confusion.

36:10

I mean, there's cinnamon, and

36:12

then there's cinnamon. And it

36:14

depends on which kind of

36:17

cinnamon you're buying and whether or not

36:19

it has a contaminant, comorin, and

36:22

whether there's some

36:24

risk involved But

36:26

give us a quick overview if you

36:28

might about the benefits

36:30

and risks of cinnamon and which

36:32

is the one that we should be buying.

36:35

Yeah. So

36:36

true cinnamon, cinnamon,

36:38

Veram, or zalonic. And that

36:41

that's the true sentiment. Right? and

36:43

and that's what's native to Sri Lanka.

36:46

And that is that is

36:47

the primary sentiment

36:49

when we we're referring to cinnamon. That's the one we talk

36:52

about, but that's not the one that's

36:54

primarily sold here. What

36:56

we are most used

36:58

to using in the United States

37:00

is actually Cassia, which

37:02

is a different type of cinnamon that

37:04

grows throughout China and Southeast

37:06

Asia. So They're

37:07

used interchangeably for flavoring, and

37:10

they're also used interchangeably as

37:12

medicine. As you

37:13

point out though,

37:16

the Cassia is higher in comorin.

37:18

And there is some concern

37:20

that when you take it in very large

37:22

quantities that can be harmful to

37:24

the liver, And

37:26

who is that most concerning for his young

37:28

children? Like, young kids who

37:30

could have a high exposure relatively

37:34

speaking, when they're eating a lot of

37:36

cinnamon flavored baked goods or

37:38

cinnamon cereals. And so, you

37:40

know, for an adult, were less

37:42

concerned, but the Casha

37:44

sentiment that's that's from

37:46

really more from, you know, Southeast Asia

37:49

and China, That

37:49

one can be more harmful especially for young

37:52

kids. I will tell you,

37:54

however, that the

37:54

evidence is for both. Both

37:57

of them have been studied. and

37:59

shown to

37:59

be, you know,

38:00

really good for you. I love

38:02

to add cinnamon have people

38:05

add cinnamon to their coffee you

38:07

know, a stick of it up into their, you know, coffee

38:09

with their, you know, brewing it, let your cinnamon sort

38:11

of come down into your coffee

38:13

to consume it. That's good for

38:15

your blood sugar. It has a mild

38:18

effect on triglycerides and

38:20

total cholesterol. It's a great

38:22

anti inflammatory. I mean, I

38:24

add cinnamon to my teas. I

38:26

love to add cinnamon when I'm

38:28

cooking. It's a wonderful anti

38:30

inflammatory and we know

38:31

how much inflammation. is driving a lot of

38:33

the chronic disease today. Cinnamon,

38:35

the essential oil of cinnamon is

38:38

used in a

38:40

lot of you

38:40

know, oral products and a lot of oral health products because cinnamon

38:43

has a very strong

38:44

antibacterial and antimicrobial effect.

38:48

And you

38:49

know, chewing on a cinnamon

38:51

type of

38:52

mint or little lozenge is also

38:54

very good because it controls bad

38:56

breath and the bacteria that, you

38:58

know, causes it. So, you know, it's

39:00

just amazing. And one of the things that a

39:02

lot of people don't know is that for

39:04

kids that are having the you know,

39:07

the GI bug where they're having some vomiting diarrhea and just

39:09

feel terrible. Ginger is most

39:11

commonly associated with easing nausea and

39:13

vomiting, but a lot

39:15

of children don't like it. If you just mix

39:17

a little cinnamon powder in

39:20

apple sauce, that it

39:22

will detect it in the

39:24

apple sauce will help the diarrhea, but the sentiment is excellent for nausea

39:26

and vomiting and is more

39:28

appealing to young children.

39:30

So, sentiment you know,

39:32

wow, cinnamon for menstrual

39:34

pain, menstrual cramps. We

39:36

use ginger for that also, but

39:38

cinnamon is

39:40

more peeling to some women. They don't like the taste of

39:42

ginger. So, gosh, I really

39:44

I love cinnamon and we're

39:48

coming you

39:48

know, when people are entering into autumns and

39:50

winters, people love cinnamon

39:52

because it reminds them of the

39:55

holidays and cinnamon cookies.

39:56

And

39:57

again, the only concern

39:59

that

39:59

we have for cinnamon is the

40:02

kasha. And, you know, you

40:04

don't wanna overdue on that one especially in young children.

40:06

The Germans

40:06

and the Europeans came out with

40:08

some warnings on on not overdoing

40:10

that in young children because

40:13

of the potential harm there.

40:16

Dr.

40:16

LoDOG, one last question.

40:18

What is it that we should consider

40:20

using daily?

40:23

I think you

40:24

should add just more spices

40:26

and culinary herbs into your diet

40:28

on a daily basis, learning to

40:32

make food truly

40:32

medicine by making the foods

40:34

more powerful

40:36

as well as more aromatic

40:38

and more tasty. I

40:41

cook with turmeric all the

40:44

time. I love ginger tea

40:46

in the winter. You know,

40:48

I use I use sage in my cooking, but I also, you know,

40:50

took it for

40:50

my menopause. I think that it depends

40:52

upon what you're

40:53

looking for if you

40:56

want more warms and

40:58

digestion, you know, adding more ginger and

41:00

cinnamon, adding turmeric to

41:02

golden milk and drinking that

41:04

if you know, looking for anti inflammatory.

41:06

Garlic, of course, is an old

41:08

standby for just

41:10

maintaining good health across a life

41:14

span. But,

41:14

you know, spices and culinary herbs have

41:16

always been part of

41:18

ethnic diets. And

41:21

they are medicinal powerhouses

41:24

and learning to cook with them,

41:26

learning to add them to your

41:28

diet, learning to you know, drink and and

41:30

teas. All of this can be

41:33

part of a lifestyle approach

41:36

to nourishing ourselves

41:38

at a deep and at a

41:40

deep and and wondrous level. So,

41:43

you know, make friends with culinary herbs and spices,

41:45

grow them in your gardens, add them to your

41:48

dishes, and you'll find that

41:50

you'll

41:50

find that not only

41:51

do they enhance the

41:54

pleasure of your food, but they will also

41:56

contribute to your

41:58

lifelong journey

41:59

of

41:59

health.

42:01

hell Doctor Tarun Elodag,

42:02

Thank

42:04

you so much for talking with us on the People's

42:06

Pharmacy today. Thank you.

42:09

You've been listening to

42:10

doctor Tarunee Law Dog, She's

42:13

a founding member of the American Board of

42:16

Physician Specialties, American Board

42:18

of Integrated Medicine, and

42:20

the Academy of Women's Health.

42:23

Doctor Low Dog's ebooks

42:26

include healing heartburn naturally

42:28

and spices

42:30

that heal. ten healing herbs and spices, and the

42:32

science that supports them.

42:34

After the break,

42:35

doctor Bill Rawls will

42:38

got cellular wellness. How can we monitor cellular

42:40

health? A number of chronic

42:42

conditions like long COVID may

42:45

be rooted in problems at the

42:47

cellular level. HErbs

42:48

treatments might be helpful. What

42:51

does science

42:51

tell us? find out how herbs

42:53

can work synergistically at the

42:56

cellular level.

43:10

You're listening to the

43:11

Peoples Pharmacy with Joe

43:13

and Terry Graydon.

43:17

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let's do it again Yeah. And,

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Terry, you said

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Welcome

48:21

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48:26

Pharmacy I'm Joe Graydon. And I'm

48:27

Terry Graydon. The Peoples Pharmacy is brought to you

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49:09

system. To

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learn more about how herbs can enhance cellular health, we

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turn to doctor Bill Rawls.

49:16

His most recent

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book is the cellular

49:21

wellness solution. Tap into

49:23

your full health potential with the

49:25

science backed power of herbs.

49:27

For the past fifteen years, he's

49:29

been extensively studying the

49:31

science behind HErbs therapies

49:33

and new sustainable

49:36

approaches for protecting Welcome

49:38

back to

49:39

the Pharmacy, Bill

49:41

Rawls.

49:41

Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank

49:43

you so much. Doctor Rawls,

49:46

you have this amazing

49:48

new book titled The

49:51

Wellness Wellness Solution And,

49:54

you know, I think

49:55

most people think in terms of

49:58

organs, you know, heart

50:00

digestive tract, brain,

50:02

but they have a hard time thinking

50:04

down to the cellular level.

50:06

So what do you mean when you

50:09

say cellular, wellness. Why is it

50:11

so important? Yeah. It's really the

50:14

key to understanding wellness,

50:16

illness, everything

50:18

else. And we think in a way that we

50:20

have been thinking for a long

50:22

time, we get used to thinking

50:24

in terms of compartmentalization. and

50:28

therapies realness. So we have pulmonologists, cardiologists,

50:31

and we divide everything up.

50:33

But if you want to

50:36

simplify something, break it down to

50:38

its smallest functional unit. And for the human body,

50:40

that is a living cell.

50:44

everything that happens in the body is a function

50:46

of the actions of cells, whether

50:48

that's your heart beating, whether that's

50:52

your thyroid hormone producing thyroid.

50:54

Everything in the body is

50:56

happening by the actions of cells.

50:59

So when you look at that,

51:02

each cell is an independent

51:04

functioning unit

51:06

that needs certain nutrients, to stay healthy, and

51:08

to do its job, it's

51:10

affected by toxins. And

51:12

when you look at this whole composite,

51:16

when we talk about hormones and messengers in the

51:18

body, all of that is cellular communication.

51:21

Wellness have to talk

51:23

to one another. to work

51:26

together. So when you

51:28

look at the concept of

51:30

health, it's a function of your cells.

51:32

If your cells are healthy and all

51:34

functioning and harmony, you'll feel

51:36

great. But if

51:37

it's not, that's

51:39

the root of symptoms.

51:41

Howard Bauchner:

51:42

Now, How

51:43

do you know? How can you

51:45

tell if your cells

51:47

are humming along? on

51:50

all however many cylinders they may have -- Yeah. --

51:52

or getting into trouble. They

51:54

tell you, which

51:56

is really interesting. We don't think

51:59

about it

51:59

this way. You know, everybody has

52:02

experienced a symptom of

52:04

some kind, a muscle

52:06

ache. You know, abdominal

52:08

discomfort, a headache. something.

52:10

But we think about this

52:12

in just these terms of, well,

52:14

it's kind of nebulous. I'm feeling discomfort

52:18

that's a symptom. But what a symptom is,

52:20

is stressed cells. When cells

52:22

become injured or stressed, two

52:26

things happen.

52:27

One, the

52:28

cell releases substances that tell the

52:31

brain something is wrong, so we feel

52:33

pain or discomfort. But the

52:35

other thing is, if you stress or injure cells

52:37

like twisting your ankle or something like

52:40

that, you've compromised the

52:42

function of those cells. So

52:44

when you partially lose

52:46

that function or sometimes lose it

52:48

all the way. So not

52:50

only do you feel the symptom,

52:52

you have compromised, things don't work

52:54

as Wellness it's a

52:56

different way of looking at symptoms and

52:58

really helps specify what exactly

53:01

a symptom is.

53:04

So

53:04

how would we know if our cells

53:06

are under stress? Or

53:09

as Terry described it, Healing

53:12

along happily. Yeah. I

53:14

think about, you know,

53:16

a situation where somebody sprains an

53:18

ankle and you go, it's red, it's

53:20

swollen, okay, you can tell that there are a lot of cells that

53:22

have been affected, but how would

53:24

you as a physician monitor cellular

53:28

health? really, you know, what

53:30

I've learned over time is with all

53:32

the labs that we have and everything else,

53:34

you know, they're all valuable. We

53:36

are getting a window into cellular

53:39

functions, but just that feeling of having

53:41

a symptom or not

53:43

feeling like you

53:46

should that's a pretty good indication that something's going

53:48

wrong with your cellular functions. And

53:50

it can be specific like if

53:52

you block off a coronary artery,

53:56

and your your heart cells don't get blood,

53:58

then you feel it as chest

54:00

pain pretty immediately.

54:02

But it can be more systemic

54:05

So when we talk about symptoms of

54:08

fatigue, that's a sign that our

54:10

cells throughout our body are

54:12

being stressed. So symptoms are a pretty good

54:14

indication of what's going on. Now of

54:16

course, symptoms come and go throughout

54:18

our lifetime.

54:20

So we have healing, right, symptoms resolve. So

54:23

that other term that we

54:25

often talk about, but a lot of people have

54:27

a hard time

54:30

to Healing. What is healing?

54:32

Healing is the ability of

54:34

cells that have been stressed or

54:38

injured to

54:38

who repair that

54:40

injury, internally, repair

54:42

the damage to the cell or regenerate

54:45

new cells, so what e healing is,

54:47

is the ability of cells to recover from

54:50

being injured or stressed. So

54:52

when you start thinking in those

54:54

cellular terms,

54:56

It's pretty cool working for us.

54:59

They're always trying to heal, repair,

55:01

and get us back

55:03

in the game. Dr.

55:05

Rose, we've talked to you in some

55:08

previous interviews about your journey

55:10

with Lyme disease. And

55:12

we now have people who

55:15

are quite a lot of people, unfortunately, who are

55:17

suffering long term consequences

55:20

from having

55:22

had COVID, we don't understand that much

55:25

about the cellular

55:28

level of

55:30

these

55:31

lingering problems. What can

55:34

you tell us about them? Yeah.

55:36

Yeah. Dealing with chronic

55:38

Lyme disease took me to a

55:40

different place of understanding our

55:42

relationship with microbes.

55:44

We are exposed to microbes

55:47

throughout our lifetime. And this idea that we pick

55:50

something up, we get an

55:52

infection, we feel symptoms from it, the

55:54

symptoms resolved, that the microbe

55:56

is gone, isn't

55:58

necessarily always the

55:59

case that it's the, you know,

56:02

the emerging evidence is

56:04

suggesting that microbes

56:06

that we pick up through our

56:08

lifetime can become

56:09

dormant inside of ourselves. So

56:12

all the things that enter

56:14

our body are

56:15

intracellular. They live inside cells. They do that because

56:17

cells can provide resources and nutrients

56:19

and protection from the immune

56:21

system. So a lot

56:24

of back criteria, all viruses, some protozoa,

56:26

have adopted that ability

56:28

or adapted that ability to live

56:29

inside cells.

56:32

The reason

56:32

evidence is showing that they can actually become dormant

56:35

there. The cell

56:36

can keep on functioning.

56:39

So it's interesting when you look at,

56:41

you know, how long COVID is

56:44

starting to really bring out a lot of

56:46

research about our

56:48

relationship with microbes. And there's

56:50

been a lot of research looking

56:52

back at other kinds of

56:54

viral syndromes.

56:56

And how these things can hang on,

56:58

become dormant, come back.

57:00

You know, I think

57:02

your profession is beginning to

57:05

come to grips

57:06

with this concept. Even

57:08

though it's known about it for for

57:11

very, very long

57:13

time, I mean, like you say, we think about an

57:15

infection oftentimes bacteria and we give an

57:18

antibiotic and two weeks later, you're

57:20

done, you're

57:22

better, buy, go home, you know, pneumonia being a classic

57:24

example. But HErbs, I

57:26

mean, we know that this

57:30

virus can linger in the brain

57:32

and cause a cold sore and then

57:34

retreat

57:35

and come

57:36

back

57:37

come back and

57:38

the same thing is true with Chickenpox, another viral

57:40

infection also related to the

57:42

herpes family. It can come back

57:45

thirty, forty, fifty years later

57:48

as shingles. And it's like, okay,

57:50

how could it be hanging out

57:52

for ten, twenty, forty years in,

57:54

as you describe it, a dormant

57:58

stage. Yeah, this this idea

57:59

of dormant microbes in our

58:02

tissues, and we're just getting into this.

58:04

You know, scientists around

58:06

the world It's not one study. Different the

58:08

world are simultaneously looking

58:10

at this thing. And I think we're

58:14

just starting to to really dig into

58:16

understanding it. But this

58:18

idea that, yes, we could have

58:20

dormant microbes. And

58:22

also the idea that we pick up

58:24

a lot of things that we don't even

58:26

know about, you know, for so,

58:28

like for chronic

58:30

Lyme disease, I talk

58:31

to a lot of people who test positive for Birelli, we know we have

58:33

it in their system. They

58:36

don't remember

58:36

remember an

58:38

acute infection or being bitten by a tick.

58:40

So they didn't even have the acute symptoms.

58:42

And that's true of so many

58:44

things and researchers starting to

58:48

show that you

58:48

know, microbes in our gut, trickle across into

58:50

our bloodstream, from our sinuses,

58:52

from our teeth, from our

58:54

skin, and they hit the blood and

58:57

they circulate through the body, and they have

59:00

the potential. So there's even

59:02

some research suggesting that

59:04

possibly some of

59:06

these relationships are even symbiotic that they're favorable for ourselves.

59:08

Our cells need them. So

59:10

it's a really, really

59:12

fascinating new part

59:14

of research. Well, one

59:16

of

59:16

the things that's so unique

59:18

about the cellular wellness

59:21

solution is your idea

59:23

that we can use herbs to

59:25

help us heal. What do you tell

59:27

us about that? You know,

59:28

when you look at this concept of

59:31

cellular stress being the

59:33

root of symptoms and, you know, and the threats

59:35

against ourselves for nutrition and

59:38

toxic substances and free

59:40

radicals and all of these other things.

59:44

And This micro thing we've just been talking

59:46

about protecting

59:47

ourselves is the

59:49

way to And

59:51

when you start looking out there for

59:53

things to do that, of course Wellness,

59:55

clean environment, all of these things

59:57

are important. But if you want to

59:59

add

59:59

to that, herbs.

1:00:01

Wow. The chemistry of the herb

1:00:03

because when you think about it a

1:00:05

plant is

1:00:05

a multicellular organism just

1:00:07

like we are.

1:00:10

And plants have been suggested as

1:00:12

being the most sophisticated chemist on

1:00:14

earth. They solve problems with

1:00:18

chemistry. So all plants complex

1:00:20

spectrum of what we call

1:00:23

phytochemicals. Chemicals to

1:00:25

protect the plants Wellness, from

1:00:28

free radicals, from microbes,

1:00:30

from toxic substances --

1:00:32

Even from insects. -- and from

1:00:34

insects. So all kinds of

1:00:36

different threats And

1:00:38

the plants we define as herbs

1:00:40

are plants that humans have found

1:00:42

over hundreds or even thousands of

1:00:44

years is being compatible with our

1:00:47

bow chemistry. So when we take these

1:00:49

things, it's like we're gaining

1:00:52

all of the plants, defenses,

1:00:54

and benefits and boosting

1:00:56

our cellular protection. Now a

1:00:58

lot of your colleagues

1:01:01

kind of have embraced the what I

1:01:03

think they think of as the medical model, which

1:01:05

is pharmaceuticals. Yes. You know,

1:01:07

double blind randomized placebo

1:01:10

controlled trials hundreds

1:01:12

of millions of dollars to produce and

1:01:15

HErbs. that's

1:01:17

kind of quaint. there's no

1:01:20

science to support that.

1:01:22

It's like, yeah, that stuff grandma

1:01:24

used. But you found

1:01:26

a lot of science to support herbal

1:01:29

treatments. Can you give us some insight into

1:01:31

this world and why you

1:01:33

think it has validity? Yeah.

1:01:36

Well, that that's a big part of the book.

1:01:38

And I've said

1:01:39

many times, I couldn't have

1:01:41

written this book two

1:01:44

decades ago. But

1:01:45

there has been just

1:01:47

an explosion of

1:01:49

research

1:01:50

into the phytochemistry of

1:01:52

verbs and how that affects our physiology

1:01:55

and the safety profiles of

1:01:57

verbs. So we really know a

1:01:59

lot more

1:01:59

than we've ever known. So

1:02:02

you you pair

1:02:04

that with thousands

1:02:04

of years of human use of these things. So

1:02:06

we know all of this information that's

1:02:08

observational from our herbal traditions

1:02:11

And now we're taking those traditions

1:02:15

and

1:02:15

adding in

1:02:18

that component of science, of looking how works

1:02:20

at the cellular

1:02:22

and biochemical level. Wow.

1:02:25

Well, let's just mention a few in

1:02:27

the moments that we have left. You

1:02:30

talk about stress and

1:02:32

its impact

1:02:33

on our bodies. you

1:02:35

talk about adaptogens and you

1:02:38

pick a few herbs in particular,

1:02:42

rhodiola, ratio she and something I've never heard of before and don't know how pronounce

1:02:46

Shailaje?

1:02:46

Shailaje. Shailaje.

1:02:49

Yeah,

1:02:49

so what we're doing with the herbs

1:02:52

is protecting ourselves,

1:02:54

but also balancing our

1:02:56

hormones. So plants,

1:02:58

their plant cells have to

1:03:00

communicate. They have

1:03:01

to be coordinated. All of their

1:03:03

functions have to be

1:03:05

coordinated like ours. So plants also are using chemical

1:03:07

messengers that are very much like ours.

1:03:10

So for many plants, when we take

1:03:12

those substances

1:03:14

in, it helps balance hormone

1:03:16

pathways. And we can go in, you know, it

1:03:18

would take a while to go into details, but

1:03:22

short story is it has this balancing effect

1:03:24

on hormones, which helps

1:03:26

us resist stress, helps us

1:03:30

sleep better all of these things

1:03:32

are working

1:03:32

toward that cellular wellness because, again, cells

1:03:34

have to talk

1:03:35

to one another, hormones have

1:03:37

to be balanced and

1:03:40

we live in a world where we're just pushing that stress button

1:03:43

continually and that can

1:03:45

really wear on us. Dr.

1:03:47

Rose, you've used the

1:03:50

metaphor of a single

1:03:52

instrument versus

1:03:55

a symphony. And think that really makes

1:03:57

sense because a beautiful

1:03:59

violin solo is great. But

1:04:01

put it together

1:04:02

with an orchestra. And

1:04:04

now now you have something

1:04:07

extraordinary going on. And

1:04:09

you've implied that what happens

1:04:12

with some of these herbs. So

1:04:14

can you give us an example,

1:04:16

especially of the adaptogens of how

1:04:18

they work

1:04:20

together synergistically to really help at the cellular

1:04:22

level. Sure. Well, again,

1:04:24

you know, different herbs

1:04:26

because of environments at their

1:04:29

end solve different People's their chemistry is

1:04:31

slightly different. Now any herb, you're getting some

1:04:34

cellular protection. So any

1:04:36

herb is going to benefit everything

1:04:38

in your

1:04:40

body. But it may be that one of its

1:04:42

characteristics may protect some

1:04:44

cells better like milk this, so

1:04:48

we know is really good for protecting liver

1:04:50

cells, where other herbs,

1:04:52

as we mentioned,

1:04:54

rhodiola. Rhodiola is from

1:04:56

Siberia.

1:04:56

It grows in a cold

1:04:58

harsh environment. So it's

1:05:00

phytochemistry

1:05:01

is really

1:05:04

good for protecting us from physical and mental

1:05:06

strain and stress. It's

1:05:08

been used by

1:05:10

athletes, workers,

1:05:12

that

1:05:12

are, you know, under stressful conditions.

1:05:14

So when each of the herbs

1:05:16

come together, HErbs, a wonderful

1:05:20

anti inflammatory. Go to

1:05:22

cola. Wonderful for the brain.

1:05:24

So you combine all those things

1:05:26

together and it's just

1:05:28

this really,

1:05:30

really robust spectrum of protection. And again, what we're

1:05:32

doing is protecting cells

1:05:34

balancing cellular

1:05:36

communication and that

1:05:38

is what wellness is all about.

1:05:40

I

1:05:41

have a question that

1:05:42

may be a little

1:05:45

bit off the wall. but

1:05:47

here it goes. We have just been talking

1:05:49

about the possibility that

1:05:52

we all Each of us

1:05:53

harbors an unknown

1:05:56

range of microbes

1:05:59

within ourselves. And I'm

1:06:02

thinking about the herbs,

1:06:04

including the culinary HErbs, that we

1:06:06

may be using from day to

1:06:08

day. Quite a few of

1:06:10

them have anti

1:06:10

microbial activity.

1:06:12

What's the impact

1:06:14

both on our microbiome,

1:06:17

which we need and on these

1:06:20

intracellular

1:06:20

things that are hanging out and

1:06:23

we

1:06:23

don't know whether they're good or

1:06:25

bad for us.

1:06:26

Yeah. It's

1:06:29

Well, again,

1:06:29

that's when you look at

1:06:31

an herb compared to something

1:06:33

like an antibiotic So an antibiotic is a

1:06:35

very specific chemical that's that

1:06:38

affects a type of bacteria

1:06:40

in a very

1:06:42

specific way. So with an

1:06:44

HErbs, you're getting hundreds of different

1:06:46

chemicals that

1:06:47

affect microbes in different ways,

1:06:49

but they also

1:06:52

affect cellular functions. So it's interesting when

1:06:54

I was struggling through Lyme,

1:06:56

I was looking for herbs with anti my

1:06:59

probial properties and there are quite a number that

1:07:01

are recognized and many of them you can

1:07:04

take long term because unlike

1:07:06

an antibiotic, they actually

1:07:08

balance gut functions and

1:07:10

and balance normal flora in the gut

1:07:12

as opposed to just

1:07:14

just destroying everything in the

1:07:17

gut. so you can do that. But then

1:07:19

I started looking when I was writing the

1:07:21

new book, it was like, well, what

1:07:23

about turmeric and rhodiola and all of

1:07:25

these other words? we don't really think

1:07:27

about them as antimicrobial. Has anybody looked

1:07:29

at that? And well

1:07:31

and behold, yeah,

1:07:33

They they do have the entire

1:07:36

properties. Maybe not as pronounced as

1:07:38

some. It's like rhodiola. Well,

1:07:40

there's not in that cold harsh

1:07:42

environment up in Siberia.

1:07:44

No. That is many micros.

1:07:46

Yeah. Compared to, say, cat's

1:07:48

claw from the Amazon world, whereas

1:07:50

a in a in that warm

1:07:52

moist environment. So, yeah, there

1:07:54

are some with better, but they all have

1:07:56

some. And that makes sense. When you take

1:07:59

that whole herb, you're getting that whole spectrum

1:08:01

of protection, and all plants have to protect themselves

1:08:03

from microbes. I mean, it's just, you know,

1:08:05

all living things have to protect

1:08:07

themselves from microbes.

1:08:10

So when you look at this idea that we have

1:08:12

dormant microbes in our tissues, HErbs we

1:08:15

think about the immune system as

1:08:19

being our protection. So I like to

1:08:21

think of three levels of protection that

1:08:23

we actually have. So

1:08:26

one is barriers. our scan, our gut lining, those things

1:08:28

are designed to keep the microbes out. And

1:08:30

when that doesn't work, when they leak

1:08:32

across, we've got the immune

1:08:34

system as a backup plan to tried

1:08:36

to to start getting rid of as much of those.

1:08:38

But we know some make it to our tissues. That's

1:08:42

becoming very evident now.

1:08:45

And the third level of

1:08:47

protection is our cells. Our cells are not defenseless. So our

1:08:50

cells have this thing

1:08:52

called pathology

1:08:54

that they use as part of the

1:08:57

healing process to break down worn

1:08:59

out proteins and messed

1:09:01

up DNA and burned out mitochondria

1:09:03

and recycled those things and build

1:09:05

new. Will they also use that

1:09:08

process of otophagy

1:09:10

to kill or eject? microbes. So that

1:09:12

is part of the defense.

1:09:14

That microbe thing, though, this give

1:09:16

and take over years, one of

1:09:18

the defenses of the microbe is

1:09:21

we'll just go dormant so they

1:09:23

don't know we're here. Mhmm. So it's really interesting to see

1:09:26

this so they can be dormant. But if you end

1:09:28

up with long

1:09:31

COVID chronic Lyme or maybe

1:09:34

any chronic reactivation

1:09:36

of microbes may

1:09:38

be happening. You know, you're shifting the environment of

1:09:40

your body from one that

1:09:43

favors cellular wellness to one

1:09:45

that is favoring micro growth

1:09:47

and then the micro microbes

1:09:49

start reactivating down cells. So what we're doing

1:09:51

with the herbs is we're

1:09:55

affecting those microbes. HErbs mainly

1:09:57

just the pathogens that we have to worry about, but we're also affecting cellular

1:09:59

health,

1:10:01

which is really,

1:10:04

really important. So when

1:10:06

our cells are strong, they can resist microbes. They can keep those microbes

1:10:08

dormant.

1:10:12

inside. But when our

1:10:14

cells are stressed by poor diet, toxic

1:10:16

environment, staying up all night,

1:10:18

not getting, you know, pushing that

1:10:22

stress buttoning, not exercising, because

1:10:24

we all need that exercise to

1:10:26

move blood. When these things are

1:10:28

chronically not happening and are cells

1:10:30

get stressed and congested and

1:10:33

weak, that's when this

1:10:35

starts happening. of course, the

1:10:37

lifestyle is important. we have,

1:10:39

we all should be doing those things. But

1:10:41

the herbs are doing things

1:10:43

that we can't

1:10:45

even do. with who they're

1:10:48

protecting ourselves from all of

1:10:50

these stress factors so our

1:10:52

cells start being able to

1:10:54

recover again. start and start to heal.

1:10:56

Well, that

1:10:57

idea of stress of one

1:10:59

sort or another throwing

1:11:01

ourselves out of balance and

1:11:03

then the microbes picking up on that.

1:11:05

That fits

1:11:06

really well with the concept of

1:11:10

the herpesviruses showing up as cold sores when you're under stress or

1:11:13

when you're out in the sun

1:11:15

too long or, you know,

1:11:17

something of that nature. or, you know, showing

1:11:20

up as shingles if it

1:11:22

was a past Chickenpox infection.

1:11:25

When I started looking

1:11:27

at numbers of microbes that

1:11:29

could become dormant and

1:11:32

reactivated.

1:11:34

It's just startling and it really get

1:11:36

close to home some years

1:11:39

ago. My father developed

1:11:41

an eye infection and he went to the eye doctor and

1:11:44

they said, well, it's toxoplasma --

1:11:46

Oh. -- which is a protozoa

1:11:49

and a lot of us pick it

1:11:51

up. through our lifetime for eating under cooked meat and

1:11:53

things like that. About sixty percent of

1:11:55

the population carries it dormant

1:11:58

and their cells.

1:11:59

It's intracellular. So they

1:12:02

treated

1:12:02

him, symptoms went away, came back in the other eye. And he said, well, we need

1:12:04

to check it out a

1:12:06

little more, and he was starting

1:12:10

to develop symptoms again. They did an

1:12:12

aspiration in the lymphoma in his

1:12:14

eye. So the first thing I did

1:12:17

was go to the literature

1:12:19

and found out that this toxoplasma has a direct connection

1:12:22

to this

1:12:24

lymphoma. So it's

1:12:26

just So it greatly increases the likelihood that you will develop the lymphoma. A

1:12:28

key player in this

1:12:31

particular lymphoma. So it's it's

1:12:35

just one of the so many

1:12:37

things that can become

1:12:40

reactivated. So we're starting

1:12:42

So as I'm looking for evidence of dormant

1:12:44

microbes, Epstein Barr, you

1:12:46

know, it shingles and

1:12:48

the connections. You know, there

1:12:51

has been connection with herpes simplex and dementia. And,

1:12:53

you know, you start looking at all

1:12:55

the connections and it's

1:12:58

like, whoa. Well,

1:12:59

we discovered that there was

1:13:01

a pathologist, I think, in

1:13:03

the northwest, maybe

1:13:07

in Hortland or Seattle who came

1:13:10

up with the idea

1:13:13

that herpes

1:13:16

simplex infections might not

1:13:18

just go down from the brain to, for example, the lip to have a

1:13:20

a cold sore, but might

1:13:22

go up into the brain and

1:13:27

contribute to dementia or Alzheimer's disease. But this

1:13:29

is like three or four decades

1:13:32

ago and nobody paid

1:13:34

much attention to him Now there's accumulating evidence to

1:13:36

suggest that he might have been

1:13:38

onto something. So if that's true,

1:13:42

And if some of the other conditions that you've mentioned

1:13:44

may also be related to

1:13:47

dormant microbes, and we say

1:13:49

microbes, we're not just talking

1:13:51

about bacteria, we're talking about viruses, we're

1:13:53

talking about fungi, we're talking about all kinds of things that

1:13:56

can literally

1:14:00

hang out in our body, in

1:14:02

our tissues, in our cells -- Right. -- for months or years

1:14:08

or decades. now it becomes

1:14:10

really important to figure out well, what do we do about

1:14:12

that? And that's when I'd like

1:14:14

to get into some of the

1:14:19

adaptogens and some of the other herbs. Now there's

1:14:21

something called reishi, and I'd like

1:14:23

to go back to

1:14:25

this thing called Shiligent. Right?

1:14:28

What is it? Why should we be taking

1:14:30

it? Yeah. Well, when we say herbs,

1:14:33

we typically refer to plants.

1:14:36

but a

1:14:36

lot of our medicinal

1:14:38

mushrooms. So as rishi as

1:14:40

a shelf mushroom, if you've ever

1:14:42

taken a hike in the woods and

1:14:45

saw a little rainbow like mush rust colored mushroom

1:14:47

on the side of the tree. That's a riche. A

1:14:49

lot of species

1:14:52

of it. It has been

1:14:54

researched extensively in Japan for its truly tremendous anticancer properties.

1:15:00

But all protective and it's considered

1:15:02

an immune modulator. It balances the immune system. So overactive

1:15:05

portions of the

1:15:08

immune system tones and down. Underactive bumps

1:15:10

them up. There is no drug that can do that. So the things

1:15:12

that we understand

1:15:15

so much more, but even

1:15:18

then that intelligence of the mushroom of the plant, wow, it

1:15:24

it is sometimes a little

1:15:26

bit beyond our grasp to explain it precisely. But

1:15:28

more and more research and

1:15:30

just the fascinating effects of that.

1:15:34

So, Rishi, a medicinal mushroom, wonderful, one

1:15:37

that I take every day. How

1:15:39

does Antalgarole properties? You

1:15:41

know, you know, when you think

1:15:43

about it, all organisms have to protect

1:15:46

themselves against microbes. So even mushrooms are protecting

1:15:48

themselves. against

1:15:50

different types of microbes. So

1:15:52

you would expect some antiviral and

1:15:55

maybe some antibacterial properties. Now,

1:15:57

now Shifting

1:15:58

gears, Schillage it. It's an interesting substance, and I added it

1:16:00

into my regiment

1:16:03

for a specific purpose. So

1:16:07

what it is, this has been revered

1:16:09

in the Himalayas for

1:16:12

literally thousands

1:16:16

of years as something that promotes

1:16:18

a life that protects life. And what it is, is plant

1:16:23

material, plant phytochemicals, that

1:16:26

have been fermented in the

1:16:29

soil with bacteria, and

1:16:31

then it it is

1:16:33

pushed between rocks in in the Himalayas. But it's also found

1:16:35

in Alaska and other northern latitudes, and it

1:16:37

turns out native Americans,

1:16:40

native Canadians. in

1:16:43

Europe populations were using this

1:16:46

also,

1:16:46

as well as

1:16:49

folks in Tibet

1:16:52

and Nepal. So so the

1:16:53

substance when we take it,

1:16:54

it supplies something called humic acid

1:16:57

and fulvic acid, which

1:16:59

you've been defined as having

1:17:03

some really wonderful health properties.

1:17:05

And so these are

1:17:07

things. you think about

1:17:09

it, we used to eat on the

1:17:11

ground. We got a lot of soil and soil bacteria and our food

1:17:15

when we ate You

1:17:17

don't do that anymore. We eat really clean food, and

1:17:19

we're not getting that humic acid and fulvic

1:17:24

acid that would be natural, a

1:17:26

natural part of our diet. So shilajid is a substance so we can add

1:17:30

back something that's missing.

1:17:33

But it is important with Shilajet to get something that

1:17:35

has been tested that is purified just to make sure

1:17:37

you're getting something

1:17:40

of quality.

1:17:41

Well, that brings me

1:17:43

to my final question, which is,

1:17:45

what advice can you give our

1:17:47

listeners for finding herbs

1:17:51

that are beneficial,

1:17:53

that are

1:17:55

high quality. What tips

1:17:57

do

1:17:57

you have to help guide

1:17:59

them

1:17:59

in their herb purchasing.

1:18:01

Yeah. There is quite

1:18:03

a range of products

1:18:06

out there. And, you know,

1:18:08

it is regulated by the FDA, but

1:18:10

it doesn't need to be regulated to the degree of as

1:18:13

drugs. Most of

1:18:16

our drugs are potentially poisonous

1:18:18

in anything in a very defined therapeutic dose.

1:18:23

where herbs, because they're working differently, because

1:18:26

their protective functions are

1:18:28

protective, you don't necessarily need

1:18:30

to have that very stringent dose.

1:18:33

That being said, you do have to have the quantity

1:18:35

of the phytochemistry to get the benefits and nobody

1:18:40

wants heavy metals and

1:18:42

other pollutants, which is really pretty common because there's so much

1:18:44

of that in

1:18:47

our atmosphere now. So

1:18:49

so it's

1:18:51

all about testing and companies

1:18:53

that do the level

1:18:55

of testing that's

1:18:58

required So going through the testing, I

1:19:00

mean, this is one of the things that I

1:19:02

was looking at early in my career when

1:19:05

I was looking,

1:19:08

deciding to create our own products

1:19:10

is just having control over that. But it's

1:19:14

it's Healing. It's testing for heavy metals testing

1:19:16

to make sure the plant is correct

1:19:18

because some products that is not true,

1:19:21

making sure

1:19:24

that the quantity, the concentration

1:19:26

of the phytochemistry is there that's going to give you a therapeutic effect. And

1:19:29

most reputable companies

1:19:32

and their plenty of

1:19:34

them out there. Most reputable companies are going to post those standards

1:19:36

and they're going to

1:19:38

talk about on their web

1:19:42

like the levels of testing that

1:19:44

they do and the types of

1:19:46

testing that they do. So it's

1:19:49

it's not as much a seal or

1:19:51

something that you buy from an agency. It's really the company taking

1:19:53

the time to go through

1:19:55

those very important steps

1:19:59

to make sure that the final product is something

1:20:01

that isn't going to harm and

1:20:03

is going to give people

1:20:06

the therapeutic effect they're looking

1:20:08

for. Dr.

1:20:08

Bill Ross. Thank you so much for talking

1:20:10

with us on the People's Pharmacy today. My pleasure. You've

1:20:13

been

1:20:13

listening to

1:20:15

Dr. Bill Ross. His

1:20:18

books include unlocking Lyme,

1:20:20

myths, truths and practical solutions

1:20:22

for chronic Lyme disease, and

1:20:25

his most recent The cellular

1:20:27

wellness solution tap into your

1:20:29

full health potential with the

1:20:31

science backed power of

1:20:33

herbs. His website is vitalplan dot

1:20:35

com. We spoke earlier with doctor Jeromey LoDOG,

1:20:40

her website doctor

1:20:42

low dog dot com.

1:20:44

Lynn Siegel produced today's

1:20:46

show, Alwodarski engineered Dave Grayton

1:20:48

edits her interviews, BJ Leiderman

1:20:51

composed our theme music. This show

1:20:53

is a co production of North

1:20:55

Carolina public radio W

1:20:57

UNC with

1:20:58

People's People's Pharmacy The people's pharmacy is brought to you in part by

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COCOVIA, the maker of high potency

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1:21:12

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In Durham, North Carolina, I'm

1:21:56

Joe Graydon. And I'm Terry

1:21:59

Graydon. Thanks for listening. Please

1:22:02

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