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and get wild! What's

1:00

that football fluke is doing? Last week they had

1:02

brainy. This week they got... We're

1:04

doing it. We're literally doing it differently from everybody

1:06

else. As a matter of fact, moving forward

1:08

from this point on, I will not make reference

1:10

to your PMD. Ready to

1:13

get into it? Yeah. Alright. We're going team by team.

1:15

I would be very careful if I had slanted stone. Am

1:17

I going to get sued? You got legal on this? Let's

1:20

send you out on the right now. PFF

1:22

sucks. Have a great day. Boom!

1:34

Welcome in to the PFF NFL

1:36

podcast, Steve Pelizolo, Sam Monson. We're

1:38

live on YouTube, Monday

1:40

morning, recapping all things NFL scouting

1:43

combine. How are you doing, Sam?

1:45

I'm alive. It felt like

1:47

the last couple of days of Indy was

1:49

just trying to get out of the city

1:51

without catching something, right? Out of the Super

1:53

Bowl, right? Everyone got sick and

1:55

then it felt like the Indy is so close

1:57

off the back of the Super Bowl. Everyone's still

1:59

reeling. from whatever they call at the

2:02

Super Bowl. So, particularly the last couple

2:04

of days, almost everybody I spoke to

2:06

was battling something, right? The late Austin

2:08

Gale, I said bye to him on

2:10

the Friday. He was fighting through something

2:12

and I'm like, love you,

2:14

just, you know, six feet distance. Just,

2:16

I don't want to catch whatever you've got. You know

2:19

what I mean? Well, the last couple of days were

2:21

just like, dodge a disease. Tell me

2:23

about it. I failed. I mean, I... You

2:27

were locked in rooms. Like, you had no escape. Right.

2:29

I could, you know, at least run to a different

2:31

part of the room. I picked up Strep while I

2:33

was out there. And I think it was... I

2:35

don't know if that takes a couple days to hit you

2:38

because my son had it back home two

2:40

days after I got to Indy. So, I don't know if

2:42

I get it from him, from before or whatever. But I

2:45

was shut down the second half of Indy. Strep's rough.

2:47

I had that... I mean, a long time ago. It's

2:49

no joke. They don't tell you about this. Yeah. No,

2:52

I had that early 20s, I guess. So,

2:54

back in the late 1850s. Yeah, yeah.

2:56

Not fun. Years ago. Yeah. I mean, I

2:59

had a draft weekend too. So, that's twice within the last

3:01

year. And I was done, man. I couldn't make it to

3:03

the doctor all day Thursday. I could not get out of

3:05

bed. Knowing. Knowing that if I

3:07

could just make it, if I could just Uber...

3:09

There's drugs. To the urgent care. There's

3:12

the steroid. I'll be on the men, you know? Yeah.

3:15

And I couldn't do. I woke up at eight. I kept

3:17

falling back to sleep and didn't make it till about two.

3:20

Had to cancel my flight to Sloan. Yeah.

3:23

But I made a dramatic reappearance. Dramatic reappearance.

3:25

At the Sloan analytics panel. They were scrambling

3:28

to try to replace me, of course. Of

3:30

course. But... I didn't get a phone call.

3:33

I thought they should have. Yeah. They should have flown

3:35

you in. Right. But I woke

3:37

up Friday morning. Booked a flight for Friday

3:39

night. To make it to the panel on

3:42

Saturday afternoon. So, it's a long, it's just

3:44

a long eventful week. I

3:47

like to tell those stories. I

3:49

think they're fun because our friend

3:51

Brett Coleman showed up to the combine.

3:53

He said it was his first combine. And he walked in and

3:56

he was there for 10 minutes. He's like, this is not

3:58

what I thought the combine was. Right. You

4:00

know, it's the number of NFL

4:02

people who are saturated in three places and

4:05

I think you know people of our standing You just you

4:07

don't want to leave because you don't know who you're gonna

4:09

talk to run into what you're gonna learn Connections

4:12

you're gonna make whatever it might be So

4:14

people end up staying up till two three

4:17

four in the morning just in case you

4:19

have that one great conversation It is interesting

4:21

that like I wonder I mean he's sort

4:23

of vaguely plugged in to NFL, you know

4:25

about the world He's more or less where

4:27

in the same ecosphere as we are just

4:29

without the sort of official commitments that dragon

4:32

the places like the combine Right. So if

4:34

somebody like Brett is like wow, this is

4:36

completely not what I thought it was like What what

4:38

are we not conveying to our listeners

4:40

that we should be conveying about what the

4:42

hell that week actually is Because this is

4:44

now like ten years worth of combines for

4:46

us between The team side of

4:48

things and the media side of things and I was saying before we

4:51

went on You and I are now

4:53

in different worlds in this at least were this

4:55

year and have been for a couple years where

4:57

Your primary function theoretically is a product manager on

4:59

the team side of stuff at PFF And

5:02

you do the podcast like a side gig, right?

5:04

Whereas I am principally the podcast and

5:06

then I do writing and stuff as a side

5:08

gig So I'm all content so when we do

5:10

these weeks you get Taken

5:12

away and locked in a room with all the

5:15

the people that nobody knows the name of a

5:17

PFF from the outside You know the guys that

5:19

work on stuff behind the scenes and you're talking

5:21

to teams and blah blah blah And then I'm

5:24

front and center is the the media

5:26

side of PFF So usually on a

5:28

table radio or not this year And

5:31

doing you know shows and radio hits and

5:33

blah blah blah, but it's like we don't

5:35

see each other essentially during the week except

5:38

At night when everyone is like, all right The

5:40

day's done now we got to go find people

5:43

to talk to that we you know Catch up

5:45

with old friends or have conversations or whatever Yeah,

5:48

so I like I like to tell the

5:50

listeners and then you know some of the listeners of course

5:53

every year They work for

5:55

NFL teams and we get this reminder that

5:58

you know Joe Schmell from

6:00

an NFL team. Joe Chamomile. Yeah,

6:02

just make it up names. From an NFL

6:04

team we'll be like, hey, heard you fix our

6:06

team last week. Hey, heard you ran into one

6:09

of the pro scouts. And

6:11

he was like, no, I didn't like any of your pro scouting recommendations

6:13

that you gave us. So it was

6:15

great. It is a little concerning sometimes the people that

6:18

out themselves as listeners. You know? I

6:21

know. You just gotta be, you know, we've

6:23

been doing this for so long that we still, I think, generally

6:25

take the attitude of, it's basically the same

6:27

content it was when nobody was listening. You know what

6:29

I mean? And now it's like, ah, crap, real people

6:31

are listening that actually talk to you about that again.

6:34

That line. And then we also try to

6:36

find that balance of, you know, we know we have

6:38

new listeners. We know we have new listeners who have

6:40

said that they've learned, not learned football from us

6:42

or whatever, but, you know, kind of like gotten into

6:45

the game from listening to the podcast. I love hearing

6:47

those stories. I heard a few of those this week.

6:49

And then again, you've got people that are, you know,

6:51

at the executive level listening and trying to keep

6:53

up with the NFL too. So we try to,

6:56

but we also try to bring that balance to

6:58

everybody knowing the different types of listeners and viewers.

7:00

So today we're going to do kind of winners

7:02

and losers from the combine, but also if the

7:04

chat wants to fire in any and all general

7:07

combine questions, we can answer those too. Yeah. I

7:10

would love the combine questions. I think, you know,

7:12

Drew, Drew Forsyth is a pretty common, you know,

7:15

commenter in the live chat. And

7:18

he was asking about, you know, how do you

7:20

respond to people who discredit the process of the

7:22

combine? Can I

7:24

start with something real quick? Yeah.

7:26

This weekend was like the combine was fun. The

7:29

Xavier Worthy thing was fun. The

7:31

Joe Milton deep ball was

7:34

fun. Right. And so do

7:36

you think that it's that, so remember for years,

7:38

nobody was in that building, right? It was empty

7:40

outside of the seven or so people that they

7:42

allow in there, like, you know, Greg Cassel and

7:45

that kind of thing, right? Other than that, it's

7:47

that, so it was definitely quiet. Now there's

7:50

an audience, there's a crowd. So when Xavier Worthy

7:52

runs a four to one or when Joe Milton

7:54

just uncorks a 70 yard bomb there's

7:57

a buzz. Like the crowd gets into it. I

8:00

think McAfee was on when he was on with

8:02

Rich and Daniel Jeremiah and he was like there

8:04

is a there is a buzz there is An

8:07

energy in the stadium. I think that's great

8:09

and I would just my I'm just I'm

8:11

hoping as Agents

8:14

get further and further into the process and

8:16

they're like don't run don't run do pro

8:18

day do controlled environment That's been going on

8:20

for years. I'm hoping the players

8:22

continue to step up and compete Not

8:25

because it's just because it's fun Like there

8:27

are some those are memorable moments that might

8:29

have nothing to do with Xavier Worthy's NFL

8:31

career Joe Milton's NFL career But memorable combine

8:33

moments. I love that This was the first

8:36

year by the way where I started to

8:38

wonder if that actually has a material effect

8:40

on the data like how

8:43

much is the crowd actually able because you

8:45

know everyone professional athletes

8:48

You yeah, right you guys always

8:50

talk about I never played in front of a

8:52

large enough crowd for this to be a factor

8:54

But everyone talks about how the crowd

8:56

like there's an energy off the crowd when the

8:58

crowd gets into it you feel that there's a

9:00

reason Home field is an advantage. It's not because

9:02

of you know your locker It's because there's 60,000

9:05

people in the stadium chanting for your

9:07

side Not the other side like it

9:09

makes a difference and particularly in free-flowing

9:12

games I think you know basketball soccer

9:14

anything that's moving constantly It

9:17

adds and flows but when the crowd gets into

9:19

it on your side it motor it makes a

9:21

difference to your team So when

9:23

there's a crowd in the building versus not how

9:26

much does that affect the guy running a 40? You

9:28

know when you know that guy's fast and there's an

9:30

anticipation or a Joe Milton like Does

9:33

he get two extra yards because the crowds into

9:35

it like I actually genuinely for the first time

9:37

this year wondered Like does worthy

9:39

get four to one without the crowd being in that building

9:41

I appreciate you pointing to me as a professional athlete just

9:43

played in front of crowds But I think you and I

9:45

might be in a similar boat here My

9:48

top crowd is probably about 15,000 that's

9:50

still that gets about at least I

9:53

would say at least for minimums and

9:55

14,000 more than I played it probably a

9:57

lot more than that I will say

10:00

I personally I was able to get up for spring

10:02

training games where there was no no fans. It was

10:04

just whenever it was But

10:06

I do wonder you know Jill Milton plays in front a

10:08

hundred thousand at Tennessee Like these guys are

10:10

used to having a crowd right so I imagine once

10:13

you're used to having that crowd energy And then you

10:15

go back to like the empty stadium. Maybe it does

10:17

have an effect. I'll say the other part, too They've

10:20

done a better job. I think of making

10:23

the workouts, you know, they're putting mostly

10:25

in the afternoon They're putting

10:27

that they're not I don't know if they're still waking

10:29

the guys up at 5 a.m For a drug test

10:31

and then they do interviews and then they bench press

10:33

like that they would stack their day So

10:35

by the time they were running drills and everything they should

10:37

they're completely worn out I think they're sorting

10:40

that a little bit better the bench presses the day

10:42

after not that that's gonna take everything out of you

10:44

But they're just being a little bit smarter about

10:46

how the drills go So I'm assuming that's gonna have

10:48

a bit of a of an

10:50

uptick I think it's some of the results, but I

10:53

think you're right about the the stadium aspect of it

10:55

So I just hope players continue to get out there

10:57

and compete and just for the fun of it

11:00

I again, I Joe Milton dropping it in

11:02

a bucket I saw Lance Erlein tweeting it

11:04

out and was like wow, this is awesome.

11:06

Everybody's like oh can't hit him Yeah,

11:08

I was hit can't hit a side of a barn

11:10

in a game. It's like great Yeah, we're not talking

11:12

about but this was just a great moment at the

11:14

combine. That was fun. Like let's just have fun Yeah

11:16

I mean Milton is the kind of person whose arm

11:19

is so insane that even if you even if

11:21

you were told He will never become anything in

11:23

the NFL like let's just stipulate this right up

11:25

front This is not an NFL prospect and I'm

11:27

not saying he isn't but if that was what

11:29

you were told going into that It would still

11:31

be fun to watch the man throw a football

11:33

It's like when you were out there and you

11:35

almost put a dent in the sheet metal, right?

11:37

It's fascinating from somebody like my perspective Thank you

11:39

who doesn't have that and and I'm

11:41

saying this as somebody I would no longer have

11:43

any fear of your fastball throwing a baseball But

11:45

for some reason football with a football you still

11:48

have juice, right? And I was legitimately worried that

11:50

you would dent the sheet metal in the thing

11:52

that we had to return To

11:54

the Eckrich people when we had that right? That's

11:57

fascinating. Just watching somebody that can do that

11:59

as someone that can't. Like

12:01

watching Joe Milton throw a football

12:04

is amazing because that guy has one of the

12:06

top five arms I've ever seen in my

12:08

life. Like he can just fire the

12:10

thing both velocity and

12:12

distance and if you

12:15

were told this is the last time we'll see this human

12:17

being it would still be fun to watch him throw at

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13:13

let's start with Xavier Worthy as people that

13:15

help themselves with the combine. He

13:18

runs an official 4.21

13:21

NFL combine record and

13:24

he just looked really fast. I thought some of the

13:26

things that you were breaking down him versus John Ross.

13:28

Well they did. They have that simulcam right where they

13:30

run that they overlay

13:33

one person's 40 against another's.

13:36

It was fascinating because Xavier

13:38

Worthy smoked

13:40

John Ross out of the gate right.

13:42

And remember when it happened live Daniel

13:44

Jeremiah said the guy's start was amazing.

13:46

Like it was that was the thing

13:48

that made him sit up and take

13:50

notice. Whoa the start. He absolutely gapped

13:52

Ross out of the gate and

13:55

Ross almost ran him down. But

13:57

when you look at the 10-yard splits like

13:59

Worthy's... I don't think he stopped

14:01

3. He's not slow, but he's not. He didn't

14:03

have the fastest, you know, wow, that start was one of

14:06

the most amazing things ever. Which suggests to

14:08

me that John Ross ran a 4-2-2 with a bad start

14:10

in the 40. Which honestly makes

14:12

that pretty insane. Ross might just have pure speed.

14:14

I mean, that's the interesting thing about the 40,

14:17

right? Again,

14:19

not to personalize this, but just to explain it.

14:22

I used to train for the command line with NFL. So

14:25

you know. Oh my hopefuls. So I know. No, I'm

14:27

only saying I saw guys

14:30

come in in December and

14:33

leave in February with

14:35

like 0.2 shaved off their

14:38

10 time. Right. You know, I saw just

14:40

from being good at the start. Right?

14:42

So when we say, you know, fast guys run fast and everything,

14:44

yeah, that's right. I mean, you're not going from like a 4-9

14:46

to a 4-3. But

14:50

just that technique in the 10, and all

14:52

we practiced was the 10 over and over and over again

14:54

because then you just keep running after that, right? And you

14:56

run. And now, of

14:58

course, there's even better track coaches

15:01

and training for this and everything. But

15:05

if you nail the start and you're

15:07

fast, you have what Xavier Worthy did.

15:09

So one of the most interesting things

15:11

this year and maybe recently is all

15:13

the new GPS stuff is you're starting

15:15

to get extra layers of

15:17

information into all these drills, right?

15:19

And the 40, you don't, it

15:21

used to just be like you get the

15:23

40 time, you get the 10 split, the

15:26

end of story. Now you're getting like miles

15:28

per hour at the five-yard mark, right? So

15:30

you're getting that instant acceleration thing and you're

15:32

seeing total miles per hour, like what they

15:34

topped out as. Because the speed to me

15:36

has always been an interesting thing. It's not

15:38

a linear thing. I've always thought about it

15:40

in terms of there are three phases of

15:42

being fast, right? There is instant

15:44

acceleration, zero to five. I didn't

15:47

have that. There is five

15:49

to close to top speed. The

15:52

acceleration phase, that's where I was fast. And

15:54

then there is top speed. Didn't have that

15:57

really either. I was not slow, but I

15:59

didn't that. So that was my, those

16:01

two weren't my speed. My speed

16:03

was the acceleration phase. So you

16:06

need a sort of way of measuring each one of

16:08

those cause they're all relevant depending on what it is

16:10

you're doing. So for

16:12

this, Worthy evidently has instant acceleration. He's

16:14

got the zero to five thing down.

16:17

And then John Ross has the

16:20

top speed and maybe the acceleration phase as well

16:22

built off that. But I mean, obviously

16:24

Worthy fast as hell, when you run

16:26

a combine record, you are enhancing your

16:29

reputation regardless of what happens. He

16:32

did however, check in at 165 pounds, which

16:35

was probably 10 lower than people thought he was going

16:37

to be. That's the part

16:39

I was surprised about. Again, I throw

16:41

Mike Wallace comps around like a... Left, right

16:43

and center. Like you get it. Yeah, you

16:45

know, there's a lot of them. He

16:48

was my annual Mike Wallace comp. Which I hated

16:50

by the way. You didn't like my comp? I

16:52

don't like it. Oh, sorry. I just

16:54

thought super fast takes the top off the defense. I thought

16:56

a little bit of the... Here's the one for you. Now,

16:59

here's where it gets interesting because speed totally different.

17:01

But I thought he had a lot of Jordan

17:03

Addison to him. And if

17:05

you imagine Jordan Addison, but running a

17:07

four to 40, that's pretty

17:09

special. Can you give

17:11

your annual comping is

17:14

not equating? Correct. Comping

17:17

and comping. You can comp anything you like.

17:19

Comparison, if you read the dictionary definition

17:22

of the comparison, right? It

17:24

stipulates similarities

17:26

and differences. So

17:29

comparison is simply... But we usually

17:31

say compare and contrast to emphasize

17:33

the... Yeah, because people

17:36

can't deal with the English language. We've

17:39

rewritten the definition. Right. A comparison

17:41

is simply taking two things

17:43

and talking through their similarities

17:45

and differences. It does not

17:47

say this thing is the same as this thing.

17:50

So you can invoke whatever you like in

17:52

comparison to anything else you like. And it's

17:54

fine as long as you're not equating.

17:56

Anyway, my point being, I

17:59

thought I... This game reminded me a lot of Jordan

18:01

Addison's, but with more speed. I

18:03

also think Addison's 40 time is

18:05

not necessarily reflective of how fast

18:07

he is in game, but still.

18:09

But remember we said last year

18:11

we were very conscious not to drop too

18:14

many of our in-game speed

18:16

nuggets and everything last year. This year

18:18

we've got more ability to do that.

18:21

So last year I remember I said Addison,

18:24

what did he run? In the four fives? Yeah, it

18:26

was like a four five flat or something. But

18:28

he had a faster game speed than Quentin Johnston and

18:30

some of the other guys. So

18:33

I'm going to drop a nugget right here. Here we go, four

18:35

four nine, yeah four five flat. So I'm going to drop a

18:37

nugget right here. So the computer

18:39

vision and player tracking data that we

18:42

have, we've got data on

18:44

what's a guy's max speed, which

18:46

is interesting, but there's error in some

18:49

of this. So you might get

18:51

a bad play here and there. So we've sorted it

18:53

by the top five. Like what are the top five

18:55

reads we've gotten as far as max speeds over the

18:57

last couple of years. And so

18:59

in this draft class, like when

19:01

Xavier Worthy ran fast, I'm like, I get it. I've

19:04

been seeing him atop these speed numbers the

19:07

last couple of years. And Worthy's

19:09

number two in the

19:11

draft class as far as the average

19:13

of his top five max speeds. Worthy's number

19:15

two. You know who number one is? I

19:18

do, but only because you finally hooked me up with

19:20

that data. I sent it to you. I thought I

19:22

had number one is Malik neighbors from

19:24

LSU. And so run this

19:26

week. What's that? Who did not wasn't there.

19:29

This who didn't run. So Xavier Worthy breaks

19:31

the record at the combine four

19:33

point two one and the game

19:35

speed is there. Absolutely. And it

19:37

was just interesting to me as I'm resorting this whole

19:39

thing, looking at, wow, Malik neighbors is just a tick

19:41

above average max speed. Just

19:44

a tick above Xavier Worthy over the last

19:46

two years. Decent sample size.

19:49

The caveat with all of these speeds and everything,

19:51

we're tracking them on every play for college. And

19:54

the more go balls you run, the more opportunity you

19:56

have to run fast. We're not necessarily adjusting for that.

19:58

We have an athleticism score. that which is somewhat

20:01

opportunity driven and not always adjusted

20:04

for but it's just trying to say

20:06

here's what this guy did and I thought it was

20:08

interesting to see neighbors who runs you know the million

20:10

slot fades and everything hitting a slightly

20:12

higher top speed a little bit more often than

20:14

Davey or Worthy and so I'm not trying to

20:16

take anything away from Worthy that was spectacular he

20:18

looks like an incredible

20:21

runner like track runner he talked about the

20:23

start the form everything about him

20:25

I think he's a legitimate deep threat I'm

20:27

not breaking you know any news with that

20:29

what Worthy did I just thought

20:32

that the guy that didn't run by the way neighbors

20:34

had a higher average top

20:36

five back speed and you

20:38

know approached another little notch of his

20:40

belt as a potential top five pick Malik

20:42

neighbors yeah absolutely I mean if

20:45

you could convince me that the shoulder shrugging

20:47

thing that he does at the line of

20:49

scrimmage the shoulder release I think Steve Smith

20:51

has called it is something that gets fixed

20:53

very quickly I think you can make it

20:55

an argument that he is you

20:58

could make an argument that he's there with Marvin

21:00

Harrison jr. like if you can if you could

21:02

tell me that that's not going to be a

21:05

factor at the NFL level I absolutely think there's

21:07

a live argument that he's as good a prospect

21:09

as Marvin Harrison jr. So,

21:14

Davey or Worthy absolutely a winner of the

21:16

week with that insane time

21:18

his teammate Adonai

21:21

Mitchell AD Adonai they call them

21:23

Adonai the whole way and yet everyone else had

21:25

seemed to made the expect to just say AD

21:27

yeah I don't you know I heard Trevor say

21:30

AD first and kind of followed

21:32

his lead and everyone started doing it so

21:34

it felt like he was felt like there

21:36

was a sort of you know mutual agreement

21:38

amongst everybody that we're now calling them AD

21:40

and then Twitter is it Adonai right then

21:42

the broadcast all the way through was Adonai

21:44

so I'm going back to Adonai for the

21:46

moment but anyway instead

21:48

of being 165 Adonai

21:51

weighs in at 205 and runs a 434 now also 152 10 yard split that's

21:59

pretty freaking fast 39.5 inch

22:01

vertical 11 foot 4 broad

22:04

jump basically, you know 90 plus

22:06

90th plus percentile in everything at 205

22:09

pounds I

22:11

think both it wasn't just

22:13

worthy He's gonna get all the ink

22:15

because of the record but both Texas

22:17

wide receivers had crazy workouts Yeah,

22:19

really incredible workout because he was already being

22:21

discussed as a fringe first-rounder He's one of

22:24

the many receivers that we've you

22:26

know Maybe pinged for the Chiefs or the

22:28

Niners at the end of the first round So

22:30

I think that does that solidify him in

22:32

the first? Yes, absolutely We're

22:34

the percentiles on that like I said over 90th and pretty

22:37

much everything we

22:39

saw His athleticism you've

22:41

seen it his athleticism on tape throughout all of

22:43

his time, you know hanging in the air for

22:45

that Back shoulder touchdown and

22:47

the college football playoff, but

22:49

yeah haven't we've got his weight wrong in here. Do we

22:51

well? The

22:54

one we just loaded into our measureables page he's not

22:56

235 no, he's not But

22:59

yeah the speed and all the

23:01

explosiveness I'm not

23:03

gonna say he's Jordan Addison because

23:05

he's got many pounds on him Hmm, but

23:07

Addison had nuanced to his route running and

23:09

everything that I see with with ad Mitchell

23:11

quite a bit You know that I see

23:13

his shoulder shrugs at the right

23:15

time in the route trying to set defenders up

23:17

He reminded me of CD lamb and it reminded

23:20

me so obviously a CD lamb that I felt

23:22

silly bringing it up I thought you guys were

23:24

crazy because I did Brett may have said that

23:26

Coleman had that comp Well, you guys are crazy.

23:28

He's got a whole video on him. I think

23:30

maybe I'll go back and Try

23:33

to try to hear that a little well, so I did

23:35

I put that out there eventually I

23:38

was like he's clearly CD lamb and

23:40

people were hammering me like I doesn't

23:42

have CD lambs now He doesn't like

23:44

the acability. Yeah, he doesn't have necessary

23:46

He doesn't have CD lambs version of

23:48

that but CD lamb had a comical

23:50

Yeah capability like his he had a

23:52

bunch of plays in college ironically against

23:54

Texas Where you're like this

23:57

doesn't make any sense. Like how does he

23:59

beat seven tackles? and still keep rumbling to

24:01

the end zone. Like, it was ridiculous. So, sure,

24:03

he doesn't have that. He does, however, I think

24:05

have pretty good yak ability. If you use, so

24:07

if you, this is where using

24:10

data and understanding context and

24:12

how to use data, right? So I'm looking at

24:14

Mitchell's page. We'll talk to AD Mitchell from Texas

24:16

here. He's a

24:18

6th percentile yak receiver

24:21

out of a sample of 717 since 2014. Guys

24:25

that have gone onto the NFL. Now why is that?

24:27

By, hang on, by what? What's the measure? Just

24:30

yak perception. All right, he's

24:32

got 3.2 in his career. I'm

24:34

sorry, that was just 2023. I'm just, I'm

24:37

not gonna click off of it, but that's the way

24:39

his career was. Pretty low yak, but it's because he's

24:41

been targeted down the field mostly. So it's somewhat, yak

24:44

is opportunity driven. I'm not breaking

24:47

new ground here, but it's a good

24:49

reminder, because a lot of people will just throw the stat out

24:51

there. Here's his yak, here's his this, here's his that. The

24:55

higher your average depth of target goes, the lower

24:57

your yak ability or opportunity. So

24:59

with AD Mitchell, you just haven't seen it.

25:01

It's about the same for his career. Okay,

25:03

that's what I thought. That's why I said it,

25:05

and I remember looking at it before. So

25:08

I remember watching him thinking, I don't see the

25:10

yak ability, but is that because it's just unavailable,

25:12

is it unavailable, or is he just not good

25:14

at it? Averaged at the target for his career

25:16

is 15.6. Yeah,

25:18

that's in five yards longer than most receivers.

25:20

Right, so that's the same for what you

25:23

usually get there. So that's another interesting one,

25:25

and that's where the scouting aspect of it

25:27

and how you use it, because I don't

25:29

know what you remember, when

25:31

you were watching Rishi Rice last year, did

25:34

you think, man, just get the ball in his

25:36

hands, and he's yak central, right? To me, he

25:38

was a little bit more everything else. I

25:41

thought he was a good yards after the catch guy. Rishi Rice

25:43

is his own thing. We'll get

25:45

to later. I wanna, I talked

25:47

to Trev during

25:49

the combine about Rishi Rice, and okay,

25:53

let's, we might as well hit it here. Rishi

25:56

Rice was my player last year,

25:58

where I liked him. But everything I

26:00

wrote down about him was a negative almost, you know what

26:02

I mean? You get those guys every year where and we

26:05

talked about him a lot that he was this Enigma

26:07

of a receiver that his

26:09

game didn't necessarily make sense relative to what he

26:11

was good at or what they were asking to

26:13

do It was a strange disconnect and we were

26:15

like if he goes to the right team and

26:17

they kind of say hey Stop focusing on this

26:19

instead do this. There's a really good receiver there

26:22

But it was a question now

26:26

The player this year that I like

26:28

irrationally when all of the notes I

26:30

have are negative is Keyon Coleman and

26:34

It didn't occur to me until me and Trev were

26:36

hashing this out on the show that Maybe

26:38

Keyon Coleman can be Rishi Rice where you're

26:41

like, okay. I don't know why I can't

26:43

articulate correctly Why I think

26:45

Keyon Coleman is a good receiver because there's a

26:47

lot of bad in his profile

26:49

like the overall picture There's a lot

26:51

of problems the statistical profile is weak

26:54

whole bunch of things And

26:56

then he goes out there runs a 4-6 in

26:58

the 40 You're like, come on, you're just not

27:00

giving me anything to hang my hat on But

27:03

it feels a little bit like Rishi rice where I

27:05

think I know everything

27:07

I'm writing down Most of it

27:09

is negative But I still feel like there's

27:11

stuff to work with here and I tweet I had

27:13

a tweet that went fairly crazy over the weekend Where

27:15

he ran the gauntlet drill And

27:18

he was regularly hitting 20 miles per hour

27:20

across the gauntlet drill I didn't

27:22

see anybody else hit 20 over the course of

27:24

the whole thing I wanted to bring that and

27:27

he was dead straight down the line. He didn't

27:29

he wasn't out of control He didn't

27:31

deviate he caught the ball Well And then right at the end

27:33

the last pass that was thrown to him was sort of under

27:35

thrown inside And like turned him the wrong

27:37

way then you want to turn when you're about to hit the

27:40

sideline and go up field So he couldn't

27:42

like stop in a yard and you know make the

27:44

turn up the sideline Which some people

27:46

were criticizing him for but my point being There

27:50

was a really interesting contrast between okay the

27:52

guy runs a 4-6 But

27:54

in a drill that is effectively trying to

27:58

emulate in game situation

28:00

situations, right? You're gonna dig, you're working across

28:02

the middle of the field, you're looking at the

28:04

quarterback, you're finding a pass, can

28:06

you do that without slowing down? And he hit

28:09

a higher speed of that than anybody. So

28:12

and yet it's

28:15

different because you look at the sort of

28:17

the miles per hour stuff like your in-game

28:19

athleticism thing, he's not gonna score particularly high

28:21

because that's finding guys that run go routes

28:23

effectively, right? A lot

28:25

of the time so it's a

28:28

very specific way that Keon Coleman's game

28:30

speed is higher than his time speed

28:33

But I still feel like there's a player in there That's

28:35

what I wanted to ask you and bring up

28:38

about data in general because I'm thinking of

28:40

this through What do we do? What do

28:42

we do with all the new information? standpoint,

28:44

I thought your breakdown of what

28:46

it was he 20th in the 40 did you

28:49

say and then best in the in the gauntlet

28:51

I don't know. He was just a 4-6 and

28:53

then figure out where they spanked and then of

28:55

course last year's fastest gauntlet It was Puka Nakua,

28:58

right? Right. So we we as humans just like

29:00

to think like this, right? We've got we have

29:02

a new data point We have a new thing

29:04

that we never calculated before and

29:06

the guy who was best at it last year had one

29:08

of the best rookie seasons ever Therefore

29:11

it's pretty easy to assume that the gauntlet

29:13

must you know translate for everybody in a

29:15

linear fashion And we've said the

29:17

same thing. We've you know, we have our own Puka

29:19

propaganda, right 99.7th

29:23

percentile in game athleticism or

29:25

our game athleticism rating. GAR. I think that's

29:27

how we're trying to win this thing But

29:30

anyway, that was where Puka was last year and

29:33

it's easy to be like, well, we've got this new calculation

29:35

Let's use it, but we still don't

29:37

really know what any of that means and that's what's What

29:40

I'm fascinated by is these new measures, right?

29:43

Like theoretically what you said and what you

29:45

tweeted out that the gauntlet is a game

29:47

like situation Where speed there matters

29:50

way more than speed in the 40. So

29:52

I was curious I

29:54

hadn't I'd only looked for him in the max

29:56

speed things, right? I was just curious what your

29:59

overall GAR Or is that

30:01

the same thing as athleticism percentile? Yeah,

30:03

okay So your athleticism percentile for key

30:05

on Coleman based off all the overall

30:07

tracking data this year is eighty five

30:09

point six Oh, so I'm

30:11

seeing a different number right now. Perfect. So

30:13

I'll just did my spread it just hasn't

30:15

updated maybe okay But you're taking a guy

30:17

so my point being you look at key

30:19

on Coleman you say four six this again

30:21

He's not an athlete right and yet the

30:24

overall picture starts to build a better composite

30:27

and says Yeah, actually

30:29

he's like an 86 percent. I last week. That's

30:31

pretty good. Yeah, and by the way what we've

30:33

seen so far from our from our

30:35

gar athleticism score

30:37

rating if we are saying that

30:39

we can't say car I Told

30:42

them I told them not to make it gar. Yeah,

30:44

I told them not to I will send them the

30:46

clip of this and then Yeah, don't you guys hear

30:49

this out? Yeah, exactly. I thought I thought my at

30:51

score was great That's

30:54

better than gar It's

30:56

no big time throw but it's something Basically

30:59

more isn't always better right? That's how

31:01

we that's how we like to think of metrics right? You have

31:03

more of it. It's always better right if you have 36 inch

31:05

arms, it's better than 35 better than 34 It's

31:08

also it's I think it's descriptive more than

31:10

just you want to be up at the

31:12

top well, right a lot of it is

31:15

the Rating

31:17

thing that we have is really

31:19

good at pointing to NFL players It's

31:21

basically saying pull from this pool or

31:23

the pool that you're pulled right from is it the right guys?

31:26

It's not as simple as and again, it's easy for us

31:28

to go. Ah puka. We knew puka 99.7

31:32

get this number use it But

31:35

it's really are you pulling from the right pool

31:38

and historically guys that are below a certain

31:40

standard In game

31:42

athleticism type of measures That's

31:45

where you know, that's where those are more red

31:47

flags than green flags You know than the high

31:49

one is a green flag anyway,

31:51

what I'm saying about the gauntlet thing is I'm

31:54

just interested to see like if that becomes

31:56

a thing that continues to translate but this is this

31:59

is gonna happen year in the draft, right? And

32:01

we give quick warning. The S2 test

32:03

last year, our friends, you're the founder, co-founder

32:05

of S2. Can we talk about that on

32:07

our show since... Yeah, Mike, we're

32:09

gonna... Just give me one... Sorry, finish

32:11

your point. I'll finish the point then we'll tell the ridiculous

32:14

story. But the S2 test last

32:16

year, right? Our brains are like, we have

32:19

this new measure and now

32:21

we're gonna do it. Now we got quarterback solved,

32:23

right? S2 found Purdy, found Purdy.

32:26

And then Stroud misses a... Now it's

32:28

like S2 is terrible, right? So in-game

32:30

athleticism measures and speed

32:32

in the gauntlet. I don't think we're just gonna

32:35

find this new holy grail. This is the thing

32:37

you look at every single year. So just don't

32:39

get caught up in that. But they are interesting

32:41

new data points that we're gonna learn more information

32:44

about. That's all. Yeah. And to just kind of

32:46

recap the whole S2 cycle that we just had.

32:48

S2 obviously, there's a lot of data

32:50

points. It found Brock Purdy. He was a 90

32:52

something percentile S2 guy, which put him up there

32:54

with Drew Brees and whatever. And

32:57

so last year we had those guys on the show

32:59

and we talked to them about what exactly it is.

33:02

They still want to put us through the S2, by

33:04

the way. Like at some point we should do that.

33:07

I'm gonna tank it like CJ. Yeah. So

33:09

anyway, then obviously last year's cycle happened and

33:11

there were leaks on CJ Stroud's S2 score,

33:13

which I think the first time was like

33:15

an 18th percentile. And then apparently took it

33:17

again and got like a six. Anyway,

33:20

they got leaked. Oh, so

33:22

Stroud's got a terrible S2 score. Beware type

33:25

of thing, right? And then obviously Stroud, rookie of the

33:27

year, looks amazing. Looks like one of the best rookie

33:29

quarterback seasons we've ever seen. And it's like, ah, S2's

33:31

garbage. It's the new wonder lake. It doesn't mean anything.

33:34

Get rid of it. It's a waste of time. There's

33:37

agencies out there going, we're not even gonna

33:39

let our guys do it. Why wouldn't we?

33:41

It's just gonna damage him. That

33:43

S2 score from the outset

33:45

was flagged as not real,

33:47

right? Because part of

33:50

the thing is you have to actually care about

33:52

doing the test. So if you show up there

33:54

and you're like, I don't want any part of

33:56

this. Just go through the motions. Like

33:58

the point being, CJ Strad

34:00

turned up and didn't essentially try for the test

34:02

and got an 18. And then

34:04

apparently somebody made him do it again and he scored even worse.

34:08

Which was like when I did Latin and knew that I

34:10

wasn't going to have to do Latin beyond the second year.

34:13

So my two Latin percent files. Your agent told you

34:15

not to do Latin. Exactly. So I got

34:17

42 and then 26. Right. It

34:19

wasn't because I couldn't, because I just knew I was never

34:21

going to do it again for the rest of my life.

34:23

So why bother? That's what CJ Strad did for the S2

34:26

test. And now you know all of this information about S2.

34:28

And the NFL teams knew that as well. Right. So

34:30

those guys contract with half the NFL teams. They

34:33

had told them internally. Like, this is not

34:35

a real number. Don't put any stock in

34:38

it. But last year, agent

34:40

lying season, etc. Somebody leaked

34:42

it. And so those guys are taking

34:45

flack arrows from everywhere. I mean like, ah,

34:47

S2 sucks. But actually the thing, if

34:50

you were working with them, you would have known that

34:52

that's not a real number. So it doesn't. My

34:55

point being, we still don't know what the hell S2

34:57

tells you. Because the one number everyone's focusing on is

34:59

not real. Okay, now

35:01

the story. But you know all

35:03

that stuff because co-founder of S2.

35:06

Somebody, sorry, I don't know the guy's name, but

35:08

somebody tweeted at us, tagged us in the tweet.

35:11

Michael Lombardi and his podcast, they

35:13

went on a big rant about S2, you know, the same idiot

35:16

kind of stuff that you tend to get on that show. And

35:19

Michael Lombardi says, of course you know

35:21

who founded that. That's Sam

35:23

Monson from PFF. So that tells you everything you need to

35:25

know about S2. Like,

35:27

well, okay, number one, he didn't. So

35:30

it tells you everything you need to know

35:32

about your expertise on the subject matter, actually,

35:34

Michael. Yeah, I don't know. I

35:36

don't know why he thinks that. But quote

35:38

the great gorilla monsoon. This

35:40

is somebody that's being, sorry, go, quote, quote,

35:43

quote, grill. Michael Lombardi is

35:45

a fountain, what he used to call Bobby the Brain. A

35:47

fountain of misinformation. Yes, it's a good, it's

35:49

a good term. How's that? Somebody

35:52

that's been talked about previously is having

35:54

like an idyllic memory, you know, it's

35:56

like this guy's a savant, doesn't forget

35:58

anything. Information goes in there. comes in

36:00

right he he he has managed

36:03

to go from that as a

36:05

as a reputational you know weapon to

36:07

he listened to a podcast one time

36:09

where the guy was on our show

36:11

and decided I co-founded s2 it's the

36:13

busy I'm just that's that's how his brain works

36:15

I'm proud of you though I'm proud of you

36:17

thank you for doing that I wish I had

36:19

apparently they contract like half the NFL teams I'm

36:22

rolling in it seriously man

36:24

what else is what else we want to talk about here okay

36:26

so who would other winners and losers so okay I got one

36:30

Xavier Laguette I think ended up being a winner

36:33

he his first 40 was actually relatively

36:35

slow so Xavier Laguette remember at the

36:38

senior ball shows up listed at 6-3

36:40

South Carolina wide receiver yes sorry listed

36:42

at 6-3 225 shows up at the

36:44

senior ball turns out he's only 6-1

36:47

225 changes

36:49

some things for a guy that's being talked

36:51

about as you know what

36:53

what's our our cautionary tale every year if

36:56

the first thing you tell me about a

36:58

player is contested catch skills I'm

37:00

quite scared immediately now it's not

37:02

a perfect rule because you would say that

37:04

about Drake London that would have been

37:07

the first thing you said about Drake London come

37:09

draft time and he's one of the

37:11

best I've ever seen it doing that you'd have

37:13

some other pretty good pluses right you would but

37:15

it would be the first thing you would say

37:17

right and I think Xavier Laguette it's the same

37:19

thing right the first thing you think is insane

37:21

at the catch point now if

37:23

immediately you're then okay but now he's

37:25

too much shorter than you thought he

37:27

was so maybe that catch radius is not

37:30

you know overwhelming at the NFL level

37:32

where the athletes are bigger faster stronger etc

37:35

but you're like okay he is really

37:37

fast as well so that's gonna help then

37:40

he shows up first 40 I think was 449 and you're

37:43

like oh it's just every remember

37:45

when trailing Berks worked out and just every single

37:47

number across the board was worse than it was

37:49

supposed to be yeah suddenly that was the picture

37:52

we were starting to paint with Xavier Laguette but

37:54

then he comes back in a second 40 times

37:56

439 which at 225 pounds is

37:59

still freaking blazing or 221. He

38:02

weighed in at this time. 10 yard split, 1.54, that's really

38:05

good. Vertical jump,

38:07

40 inches, that's legit. You know,

38:09

that's explosiveness is what he had.

38:12

And I do think as well, when they started to run

38:14

the drills and they started to do,

38:17

you know, the sideline fade stuff, this stuff that's

38:20

kind of silly, but still, he

38:23

is really, really good at the catch

38:25

point. Like he has that innate ability

38:27

to understand how to high point the football,

38:29

go up at a size, you know, point,

38:32

bring it in where nobody else can get

38:34

to it. He is still big, strong, he

38:36

is fast. So for somebody that I think

38:38

was starting to construct a picture of a

38:41

little bit, you know, smoke and mirrors, everything

38:44

we saw wasn't quite real. I

38:46

think he sort of brought it all around again by the end of it.

38:49

I want to talk holistically a little bit about the

38:51

combine. There were some questions in there about how

38:54

do you use this and, you know, it's useless

38:56

and whatever it might be. I

38:59

think from a data perspective, they are just, they're

39:01

data points and certain positions have a couple things.

39:03

So, you know, I got them all printed

39:06

out here. There's a couple that pop,

39:08

right? Certain positions like tight

39:10

end athleticism generally is really important.

39:12

Theo Johnson from Penn State, he

39:15

goes from, he

39:17

just becomes more of a guy because he

39:19

crushed the combine and, you

39:21

know, had a really good workout. And most of the

39:23

best tight ends in the NFL over the last 10

39:25

to 15 years were really athletic and there's something to

39:27

it. But from a

39:30

wide receiver perspective, I found this interesting looking

39:32

at, you know, first

39:34

round wide receivers, their average 40

39:36

is 4.43 since 2014. And

39:41

then it's 4.44 in the second round. That

39:44

drops to 4.46 in the third round,

39:46

right? It starts to get a little

39:48

bit slower as you get further. Yeah,

39:50

the broadcast kind of does it in

39:52

a similar but slightly different way where

39:54

they are, the number they give for

39:56

like the 40 is, well, what

39:58

was the average of the top 10 best? players in

40:00

the NFL at this position last year. Like

40:02

top 10 receivers, I assume just judged by yardage.

40:04

But like top 10 receivers, your average number is

40:07

like 443. So that's the

40:09

number we're targeting here. Doesn't mean you can't be good if you're running a

40:11

4.6. Larry Fitzgerald, I think, had a 4.6.

40:13

Whatever. It's giving you

40:15

a target. And to me, it's like

40:17

every draft element. There's something in it.

40:20

Doesn't mean it's, if you only use

40:22

the combine, you're an idiot, right?

40:24

But if you use it as a single piece of

40:26

information, you say, OK, this

40:28

changes something slightly. This confirms what

40:31

I thought. This does whatever. So

40:34

in the chat, really

40:36

got motion, I assume, is what that's supposed to be.

40:38

Is Sam still high on Troy Franklin

40:41

after the drills? Good question. Good question.

40:43

So the answer is yes. I am

40:46

still high on Troy Franklin. The drill

40:48

did, however, adjust my opinion

40:50

of him that maybe he isn't like

40:53

a complete all-round receiver. And you

40:55

actually need to have him working

40:57

certain specific routes, right? He's

40:59

not going to be. Why did he slalom

41:01

the gauntlet? I don't know. And he slalomed

41:03

it the wrong way. Like he faded away

41:05

from every pass instead of going towards him.

41:07

Now, the last throw, I think, was one

41:09

that caused that. The other four were not.

41:12

And he did it twice. So

41:14

I don't know. His drills were rough. So

41:17

maybe you're now looking at a guy and saying, OK, he

41:20

might not be able to do everything. But the things

41:22

he can do, like he's still, he's a guy that's

41:24

at the top of your athleticism scores for running fast

41:26

in a straight line. He can still take the top

41:28

off of defense. He can still run shallow drag and

41:30

take it to the house. He can still run a

41:32

slant and put it in the end zone. All these

41:34

kinds of things. But maybe

41:37

he doesn't do everything, certainly not year one.

41:39

So that's kind of what I'm saying is,

41:42

it's not like it doesn't change everything. You

41:44

don't go, well, the man ran a rough slalom. So

41:46

I now think Troy Franklin sucks. It's

41:48

like, OK, he ran a rough slalom twice and did

41:50

a couple of other things that didn't look great. Maybe

41:54

he's not the complete all-round receiver you

41:56

thought he was. And maybe it changes

41:58

your opinion slightly. of

42:00

what he can be. Jerry Rice was

42:02

disgusted in his interview. I

42:04

mean, I think the one concern for

42:06

me is the idea of QB friendly and

42:08

this is just the nuanced part of receiver

42:10

that I think we mentioned a lot. The Boston

42:12

accent shows up there this weekend and

42:15

it just pops every now and

42:18

again. Yeah. But

42:20

the the QB, the idea of QB friendly,

42:22

like you're not supposed to just

42:24

run the dig, you know, directly

42:26

across the field. You want to come in and work

42:28

back to the quarterback a little bit, right? Shorten the

42:32

throw. Make sure that the DB cannot run through

42:34

you to get to the ball. Like those are

42:36

those are the types of plays where if

42:38

you don't do it right, it's a turnover,

42:40

right? You're throwing your quarterback is throwing an

42:43

interception. That's the type of nuanced

42:45

part of the game. Look at that. The

42:48

nuanced part of the game that concerns

42:51

me when I look at the drills. We

42:53

got some breaking news. Yes. Do you

42:56

want to break it? No, you can break it. Per

42:59

Adam Schefter and probably others, per

43:01

his agent, Derek Gilmore actually, and I'm just reading

43:03

Adam Schefter. There you go. Lifetime

43:06

Pro Bowl wide receiver Mike Evans has

43:08

reached agreement on a two-year 52 million

43:11

dollar deal that includes 35 million dollar

43:13

guaranteed with the Bucks.

43:15

It's gonna remain a buck, potentially a buck for life.

43:18

So Mike Evans back in Tampa

43:20

Bay, we, many people

43:22

anticipated this but we also said, well,

43:24

you know, they had this kind of

43:26

deadline before the season. They didn't get

43:28

there. Mike Evans, the

43:30

biggest wide receiver name on the free

43:32

agent market, you know, despite being over

43:35

30 years old, incredibly consistent. Could

43:37

any team use him? We were going through all the

43:39

teams who could use Mike Evans, everybody, but

43:42

he'll be back in Tampa Bay. Am

43:48

I dropping, Monte? That broadcasting school is really starting

43:50

to pay off. Mmm. I use that about once

43:52

a year on you. Does that solidify? So then

43:54

there were also heavy rumors coming out of the

43:56

combine. I think Daniel Jeremiah mentioning it on NFL.

44:00

network that maybe the New England Patriots were going

44:02

to be looking at Baker Mayfield. I

44:04

had always assumed, I think you'd always assumed, Baker was going

44:06

to go back to Tampa. The one thing in the back

44:08

of my mind though was what if

44:10

they don't figure it out with Evans? Do you really

44:13

want to go back to Tampa with no Evans and

44:15

your offensive coordinator is already gone? This feels like a

44:17

pretty good piece to make sure that Baker Mayfield's back

44:19

and keep those guys together. Yeah, it's a piece to

44:21

keep them around. It also frees up the franchise tag,

44:24

potentially keep them around, right? They haven't used that on

44:26

anybody. Winfield is a potential player

44:29

that they could designate with the franchise tag, but it

44:31

does mean that if they are desperate to keep Baker

44:33

Mayfield in the building and they can't get a deal

44:35

done before free agency, they can keep them in the

44:37

building if they want to with

44:40

the franchise tag. So yeah, I've always

44:42

assumed that Mike Evans probably will stay

44:45

in Tampa Bay whether it was with a deal or

44:47

with the tag. They weren't going

44:49

to let him hit the open market and that's

44:51

exactly how it's manifested. The

44:54

Baker thing is interesting because I did

44:56

bring that up at some point that remember

44:58

there were rumors that the Patriots loved

45:01

Baker Mayfield at draft time. Now maybe

45:03

the guy that loved him is no longer with the

45:06

team, so who knows how relevant that is.

45:08

But there were talks that the Patriots were

45:10

willing to trade up very high in that

45:12

draft if Baker Mayfield didn't go number one.

45:15

That's how much they loved him. Right. It

45:17

didn't end up happening, but you know

45:19

there is a sort of connection there of maybe

45:21

there's something institutionally with the Patriots that does really

45:23

like Baker Mayfield even at this point in his

45:25

career and obviously they have a desperate need a

45:27

quarterback and might not love sitting there at number

45:29

three where you're taking the

45:31

third quarterback available potentially who might not

45:34

be somebody you're interested in whatsoever. So

45:37

from that point of view it does make a lot

45:39

of sense. I still don't really think there's much chance

45:41

the Bucks let him leave based off the season he

45:43

just had. Alright so we're just having fun here jumping

45:45

around all sorts of different things to discuss. Well let's

45:48

let's stay let's ramp up wide receiver for a

45:50

minute because I think we I

45:52

certainly have one more that I wanted to talk about as

45:54

a winner from the combine. Alright do it.

45:57

Ricky Pearsall the Florida wide receiver

45:59

who Jim Nagy talked up

46:01

heading into the Senior Bowl week where he was

46:03

really good on the show. I

46:05

think people generally look at Pearsall and think

46:08

sort of cookie

46:10

cutter, you know, they

46:13

label him as something. But he actually ended up

46:15

testing out as one of the most athletic receivers

46:17

in the draft. Like his numbers were

46:20

crazy. He

46:22

posted a 4-4-1-40, okay, that's fast

46:24

but not blazing, a three-cone drill

46:26

in the 6-8s, that's

46:29

crazy, and a 42-inch vertical with the second

46:31

highest of any receiver in the draft. Like

46:34

those are crazy numbers for a

46:36

guy that I don't think most

46:38

people would start telling you about his athleticism

46:40

if you're talking, like you're going to hear

46:42

technician, right runner, like you're going to hear

46:44

all the cliches of white guy wide receiver,

46:46

you're not going to hear, the dude's also

46:48

one of the most athletic guys out there.

46:51

Now when you're talking average top five

46:53

max speeds, Pearsall's right there with Troy

46:56

Franklin, right there with Jalen Hyatt

46:58

from Tennessee. Remember Hyatt was a take the top off

47:00

the defense type of player last year for Tennessee and

47:03

had all the opportunities to do that. And

47:06

kind of right there with Brian Thomas Jr. too who

47:08

also a big winner, right, size,

47:11

ran fast, ran in the four threes yesterday. I

47:15

think by the way we had the,

47:17

I think his three-cone was off on

47:19

that graphic we put up but 6-6-4

47:21

three-cone is what the NFL tracker had.

47:23

Pearsall. Yes. That's

47:26

crazy good. Twenty yard shuttle is 405,

47:28

that's really good. Like every number he

47:30

had was basically at the top percentiles

47:33

wise. Like

47:35

that's one of the best athletic workouts

47:37

of any receiver in this class. I'm

47:39

not that surprised by Pearsall. I mean

47:41

as a Gator watcher on Saturdays

47:43

in the fall, Florida

47:46

didn't have a ton of playmakers over the last

47:48

two years except Pearsall, right. He would just take

47:50

over games and actually him and Anthony Richardson, they

47:53

had some huge plays where you know Pearsall

47:55

just taking it to the house, you know catching it over

47:57

the middle. He's very

47:59

up. And so I'm not surprised

48:01

by any of that also had pure solved, you know,

48:03

one of the greatest catches in college football history That's

48:06

a you know jumped up one-handed took a big pop

48:08

over the middle of the field So pure Saul he's

48:10

one of those guys that I think continues to impress

48:12

throughout the offseason had the big senior Bowl Where

48:15

he kept getting open now the combine

48:17

again I don't know where that ends

48:19

up landing in this massive class of

48:21

receivers, but yeah pure Saul continues to

48:23

improve throughout the offseason there So

48:26

he's a he's one he's the only other

48:28

receiver winner that I have Great.

48:30

I was gonna go to the defensive side of the bottom. Yeah, do

48:33

it. So I wanted highlight

48:35

Quinnion Mitchell the Toledo cornerback running

48:37

a 4-3-3 Again,

48:40

you know expectations, right? So when you're

48:43

When you are a non power five

48:46

cornerback with Mitchell's type of

48:48

production You do have to tick

48:50

all these boxes now. I know he was on Bruce

48:53

Feldman's freak list before the season So it's

48:55

all these pieces of information Sam, right? We're not

48:58

just rolling into the combine a lot of our

49:00

fans A lot of people are like don't know

49:02

much about these players until the combine and they

49:04

see them run But obviously the

49:06

NFL knows about them Die-hard

49:08

fans might know about them, but Quinnion Mitchell It's not

49:10

like he was a surprisingly good athlete

49:12

because we knew you know, Feldman had put that

49:14

out already But he's just he's

49:16

ticking all those boxes for a highly productive Non-power

49:19

five corner and then he runs 4-3-3

49:21

with a nice 10 yard split other

49:24

winners are Degenerate

49:28

combine measurable prop

49:30

betters Because if

49:32

you are one of these people that waits

49:35

for the prop bets to come out You know

49:37

the 40 time for it prospect X right

49:39

you could make a killing because some of them

49:41

apparently are terrible when

49:43

they Nate Wiggins Combine 40

49:46

prop bet was set at like 4 5 5 or

49:48

something And

49:50

I'm like exactly so then Wiggins came out

49:53

during they dance. Why didn't you tell me?

49:55

I You were

49:57

meetings. I was I couldn't even get out

49:59

of it interrupt to say hey stop talking to the

50:01

Browns you need to go hammer this prop. Don't tell

50:03

them which teams we were talking to. He on

50:06

the podium was like hey what's the

50:10

fastest 40 you've ever run he's like 4-2-7 and

50:13

then they pull the prop quick

50:15

take it down but apparently they reset it at

50:17

like 4-5 or something flat and then he goes

50:20

out there runs a 4-2-8 and it's like okay

50:22

somebody made a lot of money on that and

50:24

it wasn't the sports book. Plus

50:26

he weighed in at like what did he

50:28

weigh in? Right a hundred anyway but my point being

50:31

every year though there are a lot of those lines

50:33

that come at Renner being the degenerate that Renner is

50:35

the late Michael Renner. Who we met at the combine

50:37

by the way. Not for

50:39

the first time. No but generally the late

50:42

Michael Renner makes a killing

50:44

on these he's like oh the props are out

50:46

let's go like at dinner wherever he is that

50:48

night. Gotta do something to pay for his combine

50:50

trip. But my point

50:52

so if you're that guy every year my just a

50:54

heads up right if you're into if you're into the

50:56

draft if you're into college football, measureables, etc and

50:58

you have a vague idea what these guys are gonna

51:01

do you can make some money out

51:03

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now. So

52:17

defensive side of the ball, Quinion Mitchell, corner

52:20

from Toledo, Dallas Turner, the

52:22

edge from Alabama, ticked

52:24

a lot of those athletic boxes, crazy

52:26

long, fast, explosive. Turner,

52:29

if you like Dallas Turner,

52:31

he validated everything you wanted

52:33

to see, right? Incredible athlete,

52:36

you know, explosiveness, ridiculously

52:38

long arms. Did you see, there's

52:40

a video of him doing

52:43

the vertical jump, right? Where

52:45

you sort of give it the whole arm swing,

52:47

you know, before you jump. Just like my mind

52:49

was blown at how long his arms looked in

52:52

comparison to the rest of his body when he's

52:54

doing that. Like no wonder he leads off every

52:56

rep with the long arm. I'm gonna long arm

52:58

you first and then see where we go from

53:00

there because my arms like seven inches longer than

53:02

yours is. Yeah, he had

53:04

a great workout and as I say, if you're

53:06

a Dallas Turner fan, it's exactly

53:09

what you wanted to see. He is a top-tier

53:11

athlete and will work on the rest once he

53:13

gets to the NFL. Not seeing a shuttle or

53:15

a three-cone time. Did he do that? Did we

53:17

miss that? So the shuttle,

53:19

my numbers here. I

53:21

have the shuttle as the biggest shuttle

53:24

in the cone as the most important. Yeah, didn't do

53:26

either of those. Okay, so those are

53:28

the two for me that would move the needle the most.

53:30

So that that's what's interesting about all of this. If you're

53:32

just, if you're taking a data-driven approach, which you know, I

53:34

might. If you're taking a data-driven

53:36

approach, arm length,

53:39

slight positive correlation for edge defenders. Might actually

53:41

be a negative correlation for offensive linemen. We'll

53:43

talk about that in a minute with Amarius

53:46

Mims. But the biggest driver for me would

53:48

be shuttle or the cone. We didn't see

53:50

that from Dallas Turner, but the idea that

53:52

he ticked those other boxes are interesting. I'm

53:54

not looking at the chat right now, but I

53:57

assume Walt in all caps is like just furious

53:59

because We're talking about the combine here today.

54:01

He's actually just screaming Braden Fisk into the

54:03

chat right now. Okay, that's cool We'll talk

54:06

about Braden But the biggest thing with

54:08

all this is you should never take

54:10

a guy's you know If you do your tape

54:12

grade before and then say well, he had

54:14

really long arms I think I think he's way better than I

54:16

thought he was, you know, just right tweak the

54:18

knobs a little bit Yeah, and as you say,

54:20

it's also being aware of

54:23

which particular drills actually makes Correlate

54:25

or important for specific positions, right? It's

54:27

not all created equal certain positions certain

54:30

drills are more important, etc, etc, and

54:32

it's like Edge

54:34

rushes in particular. I think teams and

54:36

players and agents know or agents

54:39

in particular know You

54:41

the three cone and the short shuttle are the most important. We're

54:43

going to make sure that those are perfect So you're probably not

54:45

going to do them at the combine. We're going to wait till

54:47

your pro day, right? One

54:50

player I thought that helped himself Was

54:53

laia to Latu who going into

54:55

the combine? He's

54:58

working on a different grading scale to other people,

55:00

right? So chop Robinson Dallas Turner these guys trying

55:02

to run for four trying to set records trying

55:04

to be at the top of the leaderboard Mathews

55:09

Assignment going into the combine was just

55:11

don't fail just pass right and yet

55:13

he goes out there runs a four

55:15

six four Like that's a good time

55:18

for a guy that was you know

55:20

is not expected to be a particularly

55:22

top-tier athlete It's not just don't

55:24

fail. That's actually legit. We can work with

55:26

that one point six to ten yards split

55:28

You know vertical 32 inches broad

55:30

jump nine nine foot eight like these are

55:32

fine numbers. So Job done

55:34

from Latu's perspective. He showed that he wasn't

55:37

a bad athlete he might not be an

55:39

elite athlete, but he doesn't need to be

55:41

because his Technique

55:43

and met and those kinds of things the

55:45

tape is insane So our friend Lance zirline,

55:47

but we have on some apart or just

55:49

talked to him off we have but it

55:51

was years ago Okay, we were locked in

55:54

that meeting room that one right Lance does

55:57

the NFL the profiles for NFL calm And

56:00

sometimes I just find his

56:02

descriptions extremely funny and good.

56:05

Uh, his, his first two

56:07

strengths for latu. Number

56:09

one, menacing portfolio of movement

56:12

and entry angles in his rush. That's

56:14

pretty good. That's well, it gets better.

56:16

Number two, men's the level

56:18

hand usage with slaps, swats, ribs, counters,

56:20

and stabs at his disposal. So

56:23

these are reasons where, why it doesn't really matter

56:25

if he's not a top tier athlete, but it

56:27

does mean that if you're looking like being

56:30

a bad athlete is reasons for NFL teams

56:32

to ignore that. Right. To go, I know

56:34

the tape's amazing, but he stinks as an

56:36

athlete. It doesn't meet our thresholds. So we're

56:38

out from latu's perspective, just

56:40

clearing that bar and showing I'm not a

56:42

bad athlete. I'm just a good, I'm an

56:44

okay athlete. Comparison to other

56:47

elite edge rushers. Now you

56:49

can look at my tape and go, but I'm

56:51

so much better at this stuff than any of

56:53

these guys. So edge one, baby. Yeah. I think,

56:55

I think latu's one of the better edge prospects

56:57

to come out in the last

56:59

10 years since we've, since we've started doing this. Lance

57:01

comps him to TJ Watt. Like that's

57:03

high praise. You know what I mean? I agree with

57:05

Lance. I think that's a

57:08

good, good, good shout out. Good, good weekend for

57:10

latu. And by the way, the other thing is

57:12

there was no reports of, Oh, we ran his

57:14

medical and he's a nightmare. We can't deal with

57:17

that. Like the medical set, we don't know, but

57:19

the fact that nothing was leaked out

57:21

suggests the medicals went well, which is

57:23

his single biggest and important. I

57:26

did want to highlight, uh, Braden Fisk as well.

57:29

Um, Florida state formerly of Western

57:31

Michigan, um, six one, two 92.

57:34

I think Florida state has him as six five. Just

57:38

absurd. He had a really short arms. We

57:40

knew this from the senior bowl, 31 inch arms. That

57:43

was fifth percentile, but fist goes out

57:45

runs a four seven eight. That's 94th

57:47

percentile. Uh, 10 yard

57:49

split was 87th percentile. Vertical jump was

57:51

88th percentile at 34 inches. Broad

57:54

jump nine foot nine inches, 93rd

57:57

percentile, and then 20 yard shuttle. 97,

58:00

93rd percentile. So Fisk,

58:02

really incredible workout. He's

58:05

another one of those guys where I

58:07

was just kind of nodding my head, like I knew

58:09

it, got the numbers. His

58:12

athletic profile the last few years,

58:14

athleticism, I'm sorry,

58:16

his game athleticism rating over the last couple of

58:18

years, at Western Michigan in 2021 at 98,

58:23

then a 99.5 in 2022, and then a 99 last year at

58:27

Florida State. And even when we can break

58:29

it up a little bit, speed score, acceleration

58:32

score, change of direction score, he's

58:35

above, he's 99.9th percentile in speed and

58:38

change of direction, 97th percentile

58:40

plus in acceleration, Braden

58:42

Fisk. So that was like one

58:44

of those, to me it confirms what

58:47

these game athleticism numbers would have for him

58:49

and the way you see him play on tape,

58:52

because he's got such short arms, he has to

58:54

win with movement and everything else that he does.

58:56

And Fisk, I thought he had a really nice

58:58

week this week, the combine, just like he did

59:00

at the Senior Bowl. Did you see JJ McCarthy

59:02

had a three cone of six, eight? He's

59:05

a really good athlete. Crazy, I mean that's top

59:07

five, that's sixth in

59:10

the league this year. I think a lot of

59:12

the intrigue around McCarthy is similar to say Trey

59:15

Lance or Anthony Richardson, where the sample size is

59:17

small, like the criticism is, hey, you didn't carry

59:19

the team, we didn't get to see much of

59:21

it, but this is a good athlete to work

59:23

with. And you combine that with, and

59:25

JJ's not the physical freak of an Anthony Richardson

59:28

or a Josh Allen, but you

59:30

have the recency bias of get

59:32

an athlete and you'll work

59:35

with him, you'll work with his footwork, you work on

59:37

his release, and you get a guy that's athletic, right?

59:40

And you can develop him. I think that's

59:42

where a lot of the JJ buzz is

59:44

coming from. So one

59:47

thing I don't know about drills like the three

59:49

cone and the short shuttle and blah, blah, blah,

59:51

is how many shots do you get

59:53

at it? Because I'd always

59:57

sort of assumed that it worked the same way as the 40, like

59:59

you get a couple of stabs. and you're done, right?

1:00:01

I think it's two and if you're going to

1:00:03

ref, yeah, go ahead. Well because they had

1:00:05

a whole bit on NFL Network about how the

1:00:07

last person on the field was Roma Dunze who

1:00:09

was trying to set this 6-6-6-5 record that

1:00:11

he was chasing and he was just doing it

1:00:14

for himself. Okay, well no because they were like, I

1:00:16

don't know, they made it sound like they were saying

1:00:19

look dude you have a time, you know, we can,

1:00:21

you can go. But it, not in

1:00:23

a way that like, it sounded like they were

1:00:25

still prepared to take the time if you set

1:00:27

one, right? So can you just keep going until

1:00:30

you hit 6-4 or do you

1:00:32

get like, do you have a hard stop on

1:00:35

this? I mean teams can do

1:00:37

whatever they want man. I guess. They can take your worst

1:00:39

40 if they want. They choose to take the best one,

1:00:41

right? I mean it's. And I'd wonder

1:00:43

with him in particular whether it was because the

1:00:45

way he was doing it was fouling like apparently

1:00:47

the problem was he kept knocking over the last

1:00:49

cone when he was coming around it, just

1:00:51

kept tipping it over. So maybe they

1:00:53

were like well that's invalidating the thing, you

1:00:56

know, you keep, as long as that's the way

1:00:58

you're losing we can keep going as opposed to

1:01:00

you've run a clean thing it's just a slow

1:01:02

time you get a do-over. Yeah, it's another massive.

1:01:04

Technique thing. Yeah. Well

1:01:07

I just didn't know, maybe that

1:01:09

was the reason he kept getting an extra like,

1:01:11

an extra go, right? As long as you're fouling

1:01:13

by knocking over a cone you can keep going

1:01:15

whereas if you just run a 6-7 we were

1:01:17

out. I don't know. Yeah,

1:01:20

I'm not sure how the officials would work there.

1:01:23

All I know is we have all this combine data. I'm

1:01:25

still waiting for the 20 to 20 times to come in.

1:01:27

Those are still important. I can't wait for pro days now.

1:01:29

I got to just fill in, fill in

1:01:31

all the data. Chop Robinson I think

1:01:34

as expected ran fast like every other Penn

1:01:36

State player. Right. Runs a

1:01:38

4-4-8 and you know may have

1:01:40

gotten him some that right. He ran a 4-4-8 and then.

1:01:43

I mean sub 4-5 is an edge. Sure

1:01:47

but I know last year we had Nolan

1:01:50

Smith run the 4-3-9. Yeah but to

1:01:52

me I don't know. He

1:01:55

was talking about he wanted to run a 4-4-flat and then

1:01:57

run a 4-4-8 and then was like no I'm happy with

1:01:59

that. running again. When you do

1:02:01

that right? You ask him if he's afraid

1:02:03

to compete? We

1:02:05

did that. Do you

1:02:08

want to step up for media members

1:02:10

everywhere? I

1:02:13

think that was a bad question and

1:02:16

I think that his justification for it was

1:02:18

kind of weak as well. The question was

1:02:20

just we're rambling all over the place here.

1:02:22

Caleb Williams is on the podium there's like

1:02:24

a million people in front of him because

1:02:26

it's the most popular podium of the week

1:02:28

and the first question he was faced with

1:02:30

was a guy yelling are you scared to

1:02:32

compete and then elaborated

1:02:34

slightly on it but that was effectively it because

1:02:37

he's not working out,

1:02:39

he didn't do the medical thing

1:02:41

the normal way. The

1:02:45

combined podiums are like

1:02:48

a they're bred

1:02:50

to be a terrible environment for actually

1:02:53

interacting. It's a

1:02:55

terrible system. The single biggest problem with it

1:02:57

is there's a million beat writers credential and

1:03:00

all they're interested in is whether player X

1:03:02

met with their team. So 50% of all

1:03:04

the questions are have you

1:03:06

met with the Jags? I feel like

1:03:08

the entire process could be improved 500%

1:03:10

if that question was banned and every

1:03:12

player behind them had a board that

1:03:14

simply listed the teams they've met with.

1:03:17

We could do that very easily

1:03:19

and immediately the process is fixed

1:03:22

dramatically. Now we can focus on interesting

1:03:24

interactions and not did you meet with

1:03:26

the Titans this week? It's just a

1:03:28

waste of everybody's time. It

1:03:30

means that when you get to things like

1:03:32

that, Caleb Williams is there, there's like a

1:03:34

hundred reporters in front of them and there's

1:03:37

a chunk of them that are idiots. Just

1:03:39

the reality of the world. When you put a hundred people

1:03:41

in front of you there's a chunk of those people that

1:03:43

are morons. Just fact. Any

1:03:46

environment you want that's a reality

1:03:48

of the world and if

1:03:50

those ones are the ones that get questions you

1:03:54

might have some problems. His justification for

1:03:56

that was like you know

1:03:58

I had to if I gave like a normal

1:04:00

question or like a normal you know introductory hey

1:04:02

Kayla I would have been shouted down I wouldn't

1:04:04

have got the question away like yeah but okay

1:04:06

so so in order

1:04:09

to get your voice heard and to you

1:04:11

know make make sure your question

1:04:13

was asked you turned the question into something that's

1:04:15

just a waste of time you're

1:04:17

afraid to compete right thank you answer it

1:04:20

what are we getting out of that yeah

1:04:23

that's a the whole scrum how do we know

1:04:25

that oh yeah the 40 so the thing

1:04:28

that brought us there was if

1:04:30

I'm an executive if

1:04:32

somebody runs something and then doesn't run a

1:04:35

second one my assumption is that time is

1:04:37

not a real reflection of what they run

1:04:39

it's like they somehow stumbled into something that

1:04:41

was a tenth faster than they were expecting

1:04:43

and we're standing on it we're out

1:04:46

so I would adjust that down mentally wouldn't

1:04:50

you know I

1:04:52

would assume so chop Robinson run the four four

1:04:54

eight and then it's like it having talked about

1:04:56

wanting to run a four four flat and then

1:04:58

was so happy with four four eight he's not

1:05:00

gonna even risk the second one you're not immediately

1:05:03

going well that's not four four eight four five

1:05:05

five what's really happening is like Johnny GM is

1:05:07

over here and he's got all of his stuff

1:05:09

sent in the scouting system and it's just a

1:05:11

chop Robinson four point four eight there's no asterisk

1:05:14

that's like well at the presser he said he

1:05:16

wanted to run four four and then he sat

1:05:18

on his first time there's a bunch of teams

1:05:20

out there with their own stopwatch doing

1:05:22

their timing I'm I'm immediately

1:05:24

rounding that down I took my SATs once

1:05:26

after my junior year had a good number

1:05:28

I didn't because you remember the SAT you

1:05:30

know SATs you could take your best math

1:05:32

I know and your best verbal yeah and

1:05:34

you just add them I did one straight

1:05:36

shot right then I didn't try to improve

1:05:38

the verbal as better at math like I

1:05:40

got a model you could tell you

1:05:42

know you knew when high school is gonna have

1:05:44

a model yeah and I didn't try to improve

1:05:47

the verbal I sat on it because I was

1:05:49

afraid to compete uh-huh cuz I didn't want to

1:05:51

waste the whole day on a Saturday again taking

1:05:53

that stupid test what

1:05:55

are we doing now no it doesn't matter

1:05:57

good job chop what else happened

1:05:59

on the deep. The about page turner. Peyton

1:06:02

Turner. Peyton. Wealth and net

1:06:04

and of the list in front of me

1:06:06

see red fast. He's alive Aca. We'll talk

1:06:08

enough. A linebacker play a thought in of

1:06:10

line by. this is like a baller to

1:06:12

Nc State. Just a playmaking linebacker in in

1:06:14

the for for is that was really impressive.

1:06:17

Ah, a man running back jail and

1:06:19

right from Tennessee. Ah, posts

1:06:21

are very fast forty time but

1:06:23

also that thing we talked about

1:06:26

before of Mph at at at

1:06:28

x. Measure

1:06:31

he had the highest one of those in

1:06:33

the last two years which features running back

1:06:35

such as a Chance To Me or Gibbs

1:06:37

by Really Fast Guy that did well last

1:06:39

year he was of the list. So in

1:06:41

a run in a down year for running

1:06:43

backs where you're like none of these guys

1:06:46

go on the first round, maybe not the

1:06:48

been on the second rounds. Jail and Right

1:06:50

is out. Here saying I have better numbers

1:06:52

in explosive marks than a bunch of guys

1:06:54

into the lead by storm last year. If

1:06:57

you're looking for one of those here I

1:06:59

am. Good day for and that's huge. We

1:07:01

do have his weight off. That would be

1:07:03

awesome if he was to fifty nine. I'm

1:07:05

Sarah to Eric frozen in the chat here,

1:07:08

to Harrison the Chest settler. He

1:07:10

said I'll have shuttle to Wilmington,

1:07:12

Massachusetts Local Rivals Local Rivals right

1:07:14

next door. We've. Got our

1:07:17

friends and friends of know each other

1:07:19

various various area he speculated he couldn't

1:07:21

he couldn't am confirm it but he

1:07:23

speculated you may have said shared dirt

1:07:25

at one very at one point or

1:07:27

another in a good for him. He's

1:07:30

a pitcher. You are fit your rivals

1:07:32

neither. He was that his couple years

1:07:34

ahead of me. He I said that

1:07:36

yeah but like close enough that it's

1:07:38

conceivable. Let me note with no also

1:07:40

people now he won nom Fantasy sports

1:07:42

writer the year. Last. Iceland

1:07:45

now he told me to to. I

1:07:47

congratulated for winning and use I got

1:07:49

a second time lot of time when

1:07:51

as impressive so contrast Eric's preset out

1:07:53

and it's fun run into people that

1:07:55

actually listen to us for some reason

1:07:57

to send off work in the industry.

1:08:01

What else we want to talk about here today. Had a list

1:08:03

Where the list. Over. Here answering

1:08:05

all star weekend Eric in the chat

1:08:07

I'll also have to questions out got

1:08:09

I'm gonna go to marry as memes

1:08:12

take a license american it is up

1:08:14

First off your we get out when

1:08:16

you're on that media email. You.

1:08:18

Know these updates like data. Jeremiahs can be a podium.

1:08:20

I thought the podium we got like seven straight emails

1:08:22

that Daniel Jeremiah was can be at the podium on

1:08:25

Friday and them as on Fridays. I guys are going

1:08:27

to be that we just need to start doing. To.

1:08:30

Start to press conferences view the same

1:08:33

unstable be taking questions now Thursday morning

1:08:35

at the Combine at nine Am. Were.

1:08:38

Going to take. What's. To screen.

1:08:41

For go like head to head with whether to be

1:08:44

as next year Yeah yeah only we do Well that

1:08:46

was with than an hour before. We. Can

1:08:48

do that or any my arm a Marius

1:08:50

Mints. Monster Human: A

1:08:52

huge individual. Yeah, small hands, and either. Way

1:08:55

I get whenever he says. It's

1:08:59

at so broke into my brain now every time

1:09:01

one of those comes and like the dude got

1:09:03

eleven and a half inch hands and like so

1:09:06

small it's the most what am I in buckner

1:09:08

territory. We get dweller though recorders as you as

1:09:10

a things yeah you had the largest buckner I

1:09:12

think still has the largest has ever measure the

1:09:14

com by and yours will I can a demand

1:09:17

bigger than his. yeah we still need a measurable

1:09:19

seat for us. With all

1:09:21

of our percentiles, I'd like some made up

1:09:23

position. In that. In

1:09:27

Ultimate here. So. I'm memes.

1:09:29

The other stuff not popped up. Last

1:09:32

page I want to do us is over thirty six inch arms.

1:09:34

I did want to bring out who's that picture of him. Ah,

1:09:37

During he was like behind the media scrum

1:09:39

at the podiums right and it looks like

1:09:42

every picture with me and you and it.

1:09:44

except back to africa them with lowest except

1:09:47

with muscles i spoke to him jack that

1:09:49

of is mine at three hundred and sixty

1:09:51

or whenever he was yeah yeah true everyone

1:09:53

else is a booster seats are so over

1:09:55

thirty six inch arms and i will i

1:09:58

get up from a data perspective i'm I'm

1:10:00

always careful. I think there's

1:10:02

bias in some of these numbers, right?

1:10:05

The NFL does not allow your Peter

1:10:07

Skarosky's in their under their

1:10:09

sub 33-inch arms to play tackle. How

1:10:11

dare they. Right? And if they

1:10:13

do they're really really good,

1:10:15

right? So the short-armed guys who get an opportunity

1:10:18

to play tackle found them are really

1:10:21

good, right? Yeah, and then the

1:10:24

36-inch arm guys, your LaRavin

1:10:26

Clark's aren't necessarily great

1:10:28

football players, but they get opportunities because

1:10:30

they've got this frame that we assume

1:10:33

can be better. So that's that's the one

1:10:35

thing I'm always careful about. We said this a million

1:10:37

times during the Trayvon Walker thing. Just

1:10:39

because you're at the highest end of every single

1:10:43

metric measurable. Again,

1:10:46

just don't over weigh every single one of them.

1:10:48

But yeah, Amarius Mims, some real big fellas this

1:10:50

year. What's more intriguing about Mims, I

1:10:52

think though, is like he hasn't played a ton of

1:10:54

football. When he's played he's been pretty good and

1:10:57

he does look like he's built in a lab. Yeah. So

1:10:59

do you want to break down what we're looking

1:11:01

at here? Yeah, so just in terms of size, we

1:11:03

are talking 6'8", 340

1:11:06

pounds, 36 and an eighth

1:11:08

inch arms and a hand size that's 11

1:11:10

and a quarter. He then

1:11:13

ran a 5.07 with a 1.78 yard split and

1:11:18

you know 25 and a half vertical 9'3".

1:11:20

The shuttle was fake. Don't read that shuttle.

1:11:22

We have to delete it. Is it still

1:11:24

up there? There is no shuttle on his

1:11:27

official. So we officially caught up and

1:11:29

deleted that. We are talking

1:11:31

about a massive human being that at

1:11:33

6'8", 340 pounds does not look fat. Right?

1:11:37

Like that picture just shows him jacked out of

1:11:39

his mind in like, you know, underarm or stuff

1:11:41

standing behind a bunch of small people. Right.

1:11:44

And again, the intriguing thing is

1:11:46

he's got under 800 snaps in

1:11:49

his career. He's been a good solid player. So

1:11:51

there is that idea

1:11:53

that he's gonna develop with time and he's

1:11:55

got the body and the frame to do

1:11:57

it. I Was not trying to

1:11:59

completely. The Pooh pooh I'm thirty six inch

1:12:01

of arms of more is not always worse when

1:12:03

it comes to arm likes I wanted us. Dead.

1:12:06

A quick. A quick look here.

1:12:08

Tackles with thirty six plus enzymes since

1:12:10

two thousand and ten. It's

1:12:12

a good list overall. Tyron Smith. Donald.

1:12:15

Penn Russell. Okun. Three guys, I'm retiring.

1:12:17

Smith. Tall. same highsmith as over thirty

1:12:19

six inch arms and nearly like six.

1:12:22

Business or I six five at Ret. Successful.

1:12:25

Success. Tyron. Smith is six.

1:12:27

I six five The small active in my head.

1:12:30

that's the splits. The small as a learning about

1:12:32

yes little solace you're going to get for tackle

1:12:34

Zach Tom Shorter than that, Right!

1:12:36

Six for. Beetle. Get A you

1:12:39

know, get much below Six Four Sigma S

1:12:41

I'm so tired. Smith, Donald Penn Russell Okay

1:12:43

on three. Very good players of course Tyron

1:12:45

Smith. maybe of title Hall of famer I'm

1:12:47

age Thomas is on this list. Trent Brown

1:12:49

I'm a Trent Brown. similar. Body.

1:12:51

But just memes is probably better.

1:12:54

Athlete: Rice: Dj Fluker. Had

1:12:57

there are thirty six plus it's arms

1:12:59

to one. Jones is last year and

1:13:01

then on the the other end of

1:13:03

it is like the guys who were

1:13:05

more developmental types. I mean Germain a

1:13:07

Fatty was a first round techies on

1:13:09

their parents. Johnson from last year found

1:13:11

his guy developmental types like the Raven

1:13:13

Clark parents, The Actually and Davenport. Those

1:13:15

are the guys who. Get. The

1:13:17

opportunity because they've got this frame and get

1:13:19

your hopes to develop them. But the high

1:13:21

end of. Thirty. Six plus a

1:13:23

charm guys is I is pretty solid.

1:13:25

So we're we mentioned big year, big

1:13:28

big bodies as here Joe off Six

1:13:30

Nine, three hundred and twenty one pounds.

1:13:33

Thirty four jobs have allowed. Or yes, they

1:13:35

listed him at six eight. Is he the

1:13:37

rare human that went the other way? Yes.

1:13:39

And. And. Immediately

1:13:42

that that became apparent. The

1:13:44

question was being asked has

1:13:46

twitter attack if. I

1:13:49

will. Say

1:13:53

a six. Pack

1:13:55

Abs good Hi Outside hills has never

1:13:57

the height above six Mine Death. Skipper,

1:14:02

that's your. Ass it.

1:14:05

And. Say he's. He's. A

1:14:07

guy. He's. A Guy. He's a guy

1:14:09

that I know a six time. While I just

1:14:11

don't think that the list of Six Nine people,

1:14:13

Jonathan Ogden is gonna be a good to see

1:14:16

as you Six Ninety Six Nine. Yeah, Jonathon Origins

1:14:18

gonna be the he can, then how about it

1:14:20

On it's the The Charger. right? Tackle

1:14:22

for a while, King

1:14:25

Dunlap as a lot of because I got

1:14:27

a load in here, right? I got a

1:14:29

loading here to shout King Dunlap song about

1:14:31

hands Yes, I for a Lion King Dunlap

1:14:34

for the Chargers. I

1:14:36

I do believe. Like. A skipper

1:14:39

was was listed six ten at Arkansas.

1:14:41

And I do believe you don't want to have

1:14:44

Six Ten listed as active pad modeling get

1:14:46

to. Like you said, Bases as the great Us.

1:14:48

What was the great? I'll Hundred. Places.

1:14:50

So he was listed at Six ten at Army

1:14:53

right? And then he was down at six a

1:14:55

six man of Nfl Just like if. We

1:14:57

decorate them was who put a ruler not get older

1:14:59

you shrink. Itself

1:15:01

that's that's why. does it will have a

1:15:04

decision yet? We still hot. It's not common

1:15:06

in his hometown. What? hello hundred he devoured

1:15:08

before the thing like I for another across

1:15:10

the database. much rather another out here. He

1:15:13

mean other. Understand I

1:15:15

generally dead. Jared. Gaither,

1:15:17

it was six nine, right? He was

1:15:20

on the one that fifteen years of

1:15:22

action here. I think Jared Gaither was

1:15:24

also an absolute monster. Size wise. Gaither

1:15:26

to be right, he was good for

1:15:28

Lugar was only six eight, I believe.

1:15:31

That small smog. I know a guy. At

1:15:34

three sixty. So. It's weight in

1:15:36

here. At his weight. anyone else have any suggested

1:15:38

I got Nine Six Ten players Yes. Shoutout any

1:15:40

offers Attacker you think of it was six Nine

1:15:42

A big I mean all it is yet. He's

1:15:45

moved to. Iowa out.

1:15:47

And then there's arm. Cornelius Lucas. Six.

1:15:50

Night Force. The. Swing

1:15:52

tackle from Washington and. Wealth.

1:15:55

Bears. So. still

1:15:57

not loading perfect which are let's move

1:16:00

And then circle back if it ever loads

1:16:02

in the next 10 minutes you brought it

1:16:04

up I did but I was assuming that

1:16:06

the thing could handle a simple data request

1:16:08

I actually think it is fun us sitting

1:16:10

here shouting out the names of six nine

1:16:12

players waiting for a computer to load while

1:16:14

It's loading because it's

1:16:16

fun. I've been missing

1:16:21

Nate solder thrown at that dick solder 68. Yeah,

1:16:24

there's a lot of six eight people. That's a

1:16:26

cutoff That's my point. Dwan Jones was only six

1:16:28

eight and like a million pounds Yeah,

1:16:31

that's another one of those, you know wings

1:16:33

of the plane deals like it's a cool because

1:16:35

most six nine players are playing basketball Who

1:16:39

is the Steelers? tackle

1:16:41

via USC He

1:16:43

was six nine as well. He's a swing tackle.

1:16:45

He's a backup a few years ago. I

1:16:48

See now I'm losing losing names losing more names than

1:16:51

I've ever lost Jordan my lattice

1:16:53

on e6 8 as well only All

1:16:55

right, any other I know the players we want to

1:16:58

talk about Did

1:17:00

you have any losers of the week? I

1:17:02

had one and now I can't remember what it was because

1:17:04

we just been naming six foot nine feet. I don't have

1:17:06

a loser Who

1:17:09

was my loser? Hmm

1:17:13

this is tremendous podcasting it really

1:17:15

is yeah, I don't remember who my loser was Oh, I

1:17:17

was trying to skew positive. I can't I don't know why

1:17:19

the height thing's not coming through Oh

1:17:26

What's the name the Missouri edge rusher that ran

1:17:28

a 4 9 5 Darius Robinson?

1:17:31

Yes, Darius Robinson That's

1:17:33

not good for him It was 4

1:17:35

9 5. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I thought I thought

1:17:37

he was gonna be super high right

1:17:39

all the way through all the way through The lowest edge

1:17:41

rusher time of the week now look he's 285 pounds So

1:17:44

you would expect it to be on the slower end, but 4

1:17:46

9 5 is not

1:17:48

good. He played as a hybrid Yeah I

1:17:52

mean I got my spreadsheet right here, too But he

1:17:54

was getting first round like we were getting a lot

1:17:56

of first-round hype really good senior ball You know everything

1:17:58

was doing good for him at the moment And then 495

1:18:01

just kind of puts a blanket on top of all

1:18:03

the hype. I'm

1:18:05

over here. I got my, I got my spreadsheet open. I could have the

1:18:07

six, nine, six, 10 players right in front of me the whole time. Great.

1:18:11

It's not many stone foresight. Yeah,

1:18:13

that's not helping. Caleb Jones from

1:18:15

Indiana. Also not helping Ryan Swaboda.

1:18:18

Yeah. That's since 2014. This is in

1:18:20

the draft since 2004. That's what I'm saying. Everyone

1:18:22

else I mentioned though, King Dunlap, Cornelius Lucas, Jonathan

1:18:25

Ogden, of course, predate that. Sure. I'm

1:18:27

just saying it's not a good list of people. I don't

1:18:29

think when you're six, nine, there has not been a six,

1:18:31

nine, drafted ahead of the

1:18:34

sixth round since 2014. At least

1:18:36

really Brian Mahalik was a defensive

1:18:39

end conversion. I believe out of

1:18:42

BC, Brad, Brad Seton out of

1:18:44

Villanova, stone foresight, that Florida, Caleb

1:18:46

Jones, Indiana, Ryan Swaboda last year,

1:18:49

Jones and Swaboda, both a UDF is over the

1:18:51

last couple of seasons, but so

1:18:53

three drafted six, nine tackles over the last few

1:18:56

years. Because most of us are pitchers or

1:18:59

basketball players. And or because you're too tall to function

1:19:01

at that size. There's that. You're

1:19:03

walking evidence of that. So there you

1:19:05

go. The answer being Joel is in fact too

1:19:07

tall to be good. Unless

1:19:09

he's Jonathan Ogden. Joel is

1:19:11

awesome. What

1:19:14

else? What other names did I throw out here? Our

1:19:16

guy there, Mohal. We really need to find out

1:19:18

how to say that guy's name. He

1:19:21

asked if any rugby players do well

1:19:23

at the combine. So the only

1:19:26

rugby players I'm aware of that participated at

1:19:28

the combine were those, I say

1:19:30

four Irish guys, only one of them is a rugby player. The

1:19:33

our guy, Tyke, Tyke, Tyke, Tyke,

1:19:35

leader who was, um, was on the

1:19:38

show last year has been, he,

1:19:40

he was on the show when he was still

1:19:42

trying to become a kicker himself, right? He had

1:19:44

been part of one of those spring leagues. I

1:19:46

forget which one. They're all the same now. Uh,

1:19:49

he was part of one of those spring leagues. He was trying to make it

1:19:51

as an NFL kicker. And then he kind of pivoted to I'm

1:19:54

now going to become the kingmaker, right? And

1:19:56

he set up leader kicking, which is

1:19:58

essentially a pathway program to. Irish

1:20:02

rugby players and GAA, Gaelic

1:20:05

players to come and start kicking.

1:20:08

So he has four of these guys and

1:20:10

they're part of that international player pathway program

1:20:13

that Lewis Rees-Zamit is the rugby player. But

1:20:16

they had some sort of special, I'm not quite

1:20:18

sure why, but they had some kind of special

1:20:20

dispensation where those four guys worked out as place

1:20:22

kickers during the combine. And

1:20:24

they were nailing kicks from like 60 yards.

1:20:27

Like sounds like they did pretty well.

1:20:29

Now judging by their

1:20:32

play-by-play written down sort of accuracy of how

1:20:34

many they made, maybe

1:20:36

we've got some consistency problems. But they've only been

1:20:38

at it for like a month. So if you're

1:20:40

able to nail a 60-yarder after a month of

1:20:42

learning how to do this and

1:20:45

there's a potential like free practice

1:20:48

squad spot for them to sit for a year,

1:20:51

like these guys might make NFL

1:20:53

kickers. I wonder how many kicks you

1:20:55

can actually practice before those diminishing returns. Right. Like

1:20:57

how many you need, like the rule of 10,000 or whatever,

1:20:59

how many you need to hit. Can you legit just like check

1:21:01

a thousand times a day? Is it 500? Is it 100?

1:21:03

Or even simply like how many

1:21:06

you can make before this is who you are.

1:21:09

Yeah, there's that too. I mean that was

1:21:11

the challenge with baseball was like you can't literally

1:21:13

throw 100 pitches every day. Yeah, can't

1:21:15

do it. But other sports, I mean you can shoot basketballs,

1:21:18

shoot hoops all day. You know, whatever you

1:21:20

want. Shoot all day. Shoot all day, Sam,

1:21:22

as you know. I'm still struggling

1:21:24

with trying to get heights. Yeah.

1:21:27

Great. I think we can move on now that

1:21:29

you got your spreadsheet. I know, but

1:21:31

I like want to know some of the

1:21:33

other old names. We did a good job coming up with them. I

1:21:35

think those were all correct. All the

1:21:37

guys we came up with. Mm-hmm. Any other names

1:21:40

we needed to highlight this weekend?

1:21:42

We're gonna talk Morr too. Yeah.

1:21:44

Before we leave. Chris Morrinson, rest in

1:21:46

peace, ESPN. He passed

1:21:48

away this weekend. I thought Daniel Jeremiah and Rich

1:21:50

Eisen did a great job with the

1:21:53

tributes and basically every story

1:21:55

about Morr, it was like he was a

1:21:57

man. Yeah, I did you. I

1:21:59

never had any. I don't think I ever

1:22:01

had any interactions with him at least not

1:22:03

real ones like I'm sure we There's

1:22:06

a Twitter thing here there, but I don't think I

1:22:08

ever met him for in person, but

1:22:10

like every everybody you hear

1:22:14

Talks about that like specifically he was one of those

1:22:16

people in the industry that went out of his way

1:22:18

to help other people So there's

1:22:20

a lot of obviously people connected with ESPN

1:22:22

said that but also people that weren't you

1:22:25

know that? We're just given some kind of

1:22:27

helping hand or word of encouragement about him.

1:22:29

I think Who

1:22:33

he was as a person yeah, I mean same I

1:22:35

think there's enough There's enough

1:22:37

examples out there of people that were personally touched

1:22:39

by more I didn't

1:22:41

have any personal experience with him. I've been John Clayton

1:22:43

passed away a couple years ago I mean he was

1:22:46

a guy yeah like I had interactions with John Clayton

1:22:48

I mean this is these were John Clayton and more

1:22:50

were the sort of two original Insiders

1:22:52

right the the shefters Rappaports

1:22:55

Tom Pelissero is like that whole

1:22:57

world didn't exist before those guys.

1:22:59

They were the first like true televised

1:23:03

insiders Pioneers

1:23:05

Morton Schefter they were the two that would

1:23:07

work together right they would do like co-reporting

1:23:10

Yeah, so I think and I think that

1:23:12

I think I'm right in saying that that

1:23:14

was kind of more That that's

1:23:16

like a legacy of more. It's why I asked Tom Pelissero one

1:23:18

time like what is the deal with this? Accord

1:23:21

you know sources tell Rappaport

1:23:23

and me yeah, like how does that I don't understand

1:23:25

how that works Do you both get the text at

1:23:28

the same time and he was saying that they've kind

1:23:30

of agreed? Like a daytime to set

1:23:32

like it would silly us competing So

1:23:34

we just agree to sort of share the credit

1:23:37

right and we we each do our own reporting

1:23:39

and then it It kind of gets pulled essentially

1:23:41

the credit I think that was a more thing

1:23:43

that you know Schefter shows up and becomes the

1:23:45

new guy and rather than them

1:23:48

Competing it was like

1:23:50

a collaborative thing yeah So

1:23:54

yeah Chris Mortensen again, I would

1:23:56

suggest you know scour Twitter

1:23:58

acts whatever it is read

1:24:01

all the tributes hmm Chris Mortensen I

1:24:04

did find some tackles oh

1:24:06

great this is smooth segue I

1:24:09

know well the guys we mentioned hope

1:24:11

you guys who mentioned Jared Gaither yes

1:24:13

King Dunlap here's the best grades in

1:24:15

long pink in done right best grades

1:24:17

is 2011 is a good shot I'd

1:24:19

forgotten about six nine plus those

1:24:23

are two good players by the way yes they gave her had

1:24:25

an 85 grade in like 2011

1:24:28

whatever I sampled Gaither was really good and then

1:24:30

he got injured and was sort of never quite

1:24:33

the same in his career Peter right Dunlap graded

1:24:35

80 plus in this sample Demar Donson there's

1:24:37

another one I couldn't remember Bill

1:24:40

and Wava 80 plus grade Dennis

1:24:43

Roland from the Bengals Dan

1:24:46

Skipper who we mentioned Brian Mahalik we

1:24:48

mentioned Stone Forsyth mentioned and then Zach

1:24:50

Snurpp from the Dolphins

1:24:53

so and then those guys were pretty

1:24:55

good and then the other guys that you listed

1:24:57

and then Ogden yeah we have oh six data

1:24:59

oh so it's Ogden's

1:25:02

amazing King Dunlap and

1:25:04

Jared Gaither and Demar Donson were

1:25:06

good players for a while yeah and then everyone

1:25:09

else stinks that's

1:25:12

our that's your takeaway yeah I

1:25:15

mean that's the analysis right we've got Hall of

1:25:17

Famer we got three reasonably good players all

1:25:19

of whom would least two of whom were shortened

1:25:21

by injury and then

1:25:24

everyone else was was not good right yeah

1:25:26

the analysis should be Joe Alt will be

1:25:28

just fine because the baseline

1:25:31

for Alt is he's OT one in this

1:25:33

class we have Dana that's really good we

1:25:35

have you watch film he's really good the

1:25:37

fact that he's 6 9 you're only looking

1:25:39

at of that your your question

1:25:42

was is that an eliminator and

1:25:45

if I give you a list and four out of

1:25:47

nine are good then no it's not an eliminator not

1:25:49

even close we also had vindication

1:25:53

by the way that I

1:25:56

have been correct in calling

1:25:58

Olu Fashnu fashion

1:26:00

you know I should show new he

1:26:03

himself said fashion it you sent that to me

1:26:05

on my deathbed so I didn't listen to yes

1:26:07

yeah yeah he he himself clarified

1:26:10

and by the way I know

1:26:12

Jeremiah and Rich I think they do a fantastic job

1:26:14

but they straight-up ignored him they were calling

1:26:16

them for show new not

1:26:19

what he said those

1:26:21

guys were on air 29 hours

1:26:24

straight yeah four days uh-huh but they've got people

1:26:26

that monitor this kind of stuff for them you

1:26:28

know yes we'll blame the people I

1:26:31

blame the people behind the scenes I feel like they

1:26:33

could have gone above and beyond and found that piece

1:26:35

of information at we did I knew

1:26:37

all along you did anyway with

1:26:40

30% off any PFF subscription using

1:26:42

30 MDS 3-0

1:26:44

MDS 30% off

1:26:50

any PFF annual subscription alright man I

1:26:52

feel like we could do fault for

1:26:54

combine shows go through everybody player by

1:26:56

player don't take a while yeah anything

1:26:59

else before we wrap it up I

1:27:02

don't think so I think we kind of covered

1:27:05

covered all the winners and the loser I

1:27:08

don't like highlighting the losers

1:27:11

I mean you know generally I don't think that

1:27:14

many people tank the combine anymore I mean I think it's

1:27:16

a big part of it they used to be people every

1:27:18

year they would show up and you're like oh that

1:27:20

was rough I think now that people are gonna

1:27:22

do that just don't run yeah and even some

1:27:24

of those the Orlando Brown examples

1:27:27

yes didn't matter right whatever yeah

1:27:29

funny to me yesterday about it too all

1:27:31

right guys it's been real I'm

1:27:34

going to King Coon tomorrow

1:27:36

nice so I'm out of here

1:27:38

I'm not the week yeah have to have to

1:27:42

go celebrate a wedding sweet very important

1:27:45

so we're gonna go do that and then you'll

1:27:47

be here Wednesday and Thursday yeah that sounds good

1:27:50

yeah alright thanks everybody for tuning in we'll be again

1:27:53

here Wednesday or something I'm on vacation

1:27:55

I'm out of here more PFF NFL

1:27:57

podcast beautiful You