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day. Remember

1:24

who they are? That's what we've been doing here.

1:26

That's what most of this week is. A lot

1:28

of awkward handshakes and half hugs. A

1:31

lot of that going on here. It's

1:33

in Mandalay Bay, right? Yes. And I

1:35

thought it's all in the one room.

1:37

It's all in one casino. So

1:39

it'll be close together. How far, how much

1:41

walking could there be in Mandalay Bay? Yeah.

1:44

Turns out about 17,000 miles. We've

1:46

been navigating through this labyrinth that is a couple

1:48

buildings in Vegas. Let's find out how many steps

1:50

we've taken. The people want to know how long

1:52

you've been... You assured me there'd be little walking

1:54

here. I'm not having a good week

1:56

in terms of like accurate predictions. I am though with

1:58

Wing Count. is up around 20

2:01

and I've been assured that we're gonna get free wings here every

2:03

day at 11 and 2. Really?

2:05

Every single day. I didn't get those.

2:07

So I will be partaking in those

2:09

wings every single day at 11 and 2. I

2:12

think that's the goal. There's some free catfish over there. Next

2:15

year's Super Bowl is in Nalins. Nalins.

2:17

So there's always a next year Super Bowl ramp. I

2:19

saw those, yeah. And they're like giving you a little

2:21

taste of next year. I've been saying that one of

2:23

the things we should be doing this week is having

2:26

like some sort of little video

2:28

that just is like a calorie counter for

2:30

what you've consumed. Yeah. Because I

2:32

think it would already be well over 10,000

2:34

calories. Thank you. And

2:36

just keeps going up. Yeah. I'm getting

2:38

ready for an on-location wedding in Mexico next month. I'm

2:41

trying not to look that big, but we'll see what

2:43

happens. I mean it's a fascinating, like it's an interesting

2:45

balance between the calories going up and the steps

2:47

going up and who knows which one's winning

2:49

out. We're gonna balance them out. So coming

2:51

up here, we're gonna talk a little Drake

2:53

May, UNC quarterback. We're starting a little draft

2:55

talk. There's

2:58

a buzz around the NFL and

3:00

particularly the draft community about Drake

3:02

May who seemed to be locked

3:04

in at number two overall,

3:06

maybe not being there. And we're

3:08

gonna have that coincide with Lance Zurline's mock

3:10

draft, which maybe doesn't have him

3:13

at number two. Yeah. You have over 11,000

3:15

steps here today. Already at 11,000. And

3:17

look, so we've got a baseline of basically not moving.

3:19

And then yesterday with the airport, it was quite a

3:21

lot. And now today we're spiking through the moon. Yeah,

3:24

well done. Thanks. A lot of

3:26

moving over here. We're having a lot of fun. You're on

3:28

Jim Rome here today. I was. It's

3:30

also, by the way, people might not know it's freezing

3:32

cold in Vegas. Yeah. It's cold

3:35

and rainy outside. Yeah, it's not great

3:37

weather for Super Bowl week. So we're

3:40

gonna talk a little Drake May. We're gonna talk a little NFL

3:42

draft. But first, don't forget, the question

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subject to unerring health questions. Alright,

4:38

we got a lot going on here. Dr. Eric Eager

4:41

is running around here. The doctor. I

4:43

would say rest in peace, but I see him alive and well over here. He

4:45

might crash the show tomorrow, I guess, in

4:47

the morning when we record. Okay. And

4:50

then we're recording this. This is

4:52

Tuesday show. On Wednesday, we will

4:55

record from circa. Yep. I

4:58

had at least one person reach out in the DMs. I'll get back to you. We

5:00

will hang around circa. We're going to record there at

5:02

4 Pacific time. Circa Sportsbook will

5:05

record our Thursday show on

5:07

Wednesday afternoon at 4. So if you want to be there,

5:09

hang out. We got like a cabana in the whole deal. Yeah.

5:13

I guess. So you can come hang out after

5:15

the show. You know, we'll probably go hour, hour

5:17

and a half. We're going to have Brad

5:19

and Trevor on the show. And yeah,

5:22

if anybody's in town and wants to hang

5:24

out Wednesday afternoon around 5, 5 30

5:27

Pacific time, come hang out over at circa. Alright.

5:30

Alright, man. Let's talk Drake May. You've

5:33

watched a little Drake May. I think you're even

5:35

lower on. You haven't loved Drake

5:37

May. Right. UNC quarterback.

5:40

Yeah. And we're getting this buzz around

5:42

the NFL. As mock drafts come out, the

5:44

mock drafts are sometimes a little bit of the mock drafters

5:46

evaluation. And a little bit of what they hear.

5:49

And the most recent mock that

5:51

we're going to cover today is Lance Zurline from nfl.com. Lance

5:54

has Jaden Daniels going number two to the

5:57

Washington commanders. And I believe It's

5:59

in the NFL. In part because he's a

6:01

little either either. He's a little lower

6:03

on Drake may. He's hearing.

6:06

More. Negative type of buzzer. he's not a

6:08

walk and number two or little combination about

6:10

his get raped me after going at five

6:12

to the Falcons. you trade up in the

6:14

small yeah and and I think this is

6:16

now the second big mark was it? I

6:18

think it was Jeremiah is my know maybe

6:20

was Mel Kiper that had been flipped as

6:22

well but yeah mail her anywhere yet on

6:24

any and we were saying we should have

6:26

ran through those who tends that you know

6:28

sometimes Mel Kiper in particular likes with the

6:30

thing that as had a discussion points Riley

6:33

I look we should be talking about this

6:35

more writers and that's a good. Thing because

6:37

I think that is a conversation that should

6:39

be being had. Maybe not. I'm not. I

6:41

wasn't coming out of from the Jade Daniel

6:43

side of things, but the more I watched

6:46

of Drake made the more I was like.

6:48

I can see why people don't love this

6:50

right. I can see why we would be

6:52

getting questions about his he rarely that top

6:54

elite prospect dance in the more you watch

6:57

like there's quite a lot of negative in

6:59

here. The positive is great because it was

7:01

obvious and we're in this world now where

7:03

it's like how much you weigh one versus

7:05

the other. Nuts getting harder

7:08

the as the years go by but there's

7:10

a lot of negative Andre may say. But

7:12

even if you just watch say has walker

7:14

take right number Mrs are not good throws

7:16

and read made significant. Yeah I'm in those

7:18

with I will say that was the thought.

7:21

Those were some of my early know. it's

7:23

coming into the season with May. It

7:25

to me it felt like footwork issues to

7:28

street footwork issues. You know he's gonna miss

7:30

a little swing. Passer will stick around. some

7:32

of the easy stuff. He tended

7:34

to mess. And then it. But I

7:36

think by my analysis coming out of though was

7:39

he still really young? And last

7:41

year he was a redshirt freshman right

7:43

loud. Two thousand, Twenty two. He's

7:45

only had two years starting. He. still

7:47

only twenty one years old i don't

7:49

always use the age as a as

7:51

an excuse or even out and explainer

7:53

because it doesn't always mean you're you're

7:55

gonna get better right but i think

7:57

in the drake may day to day

8:00

discussion, it's an interesting one, because

8:02

when we saw Jaden Daniels, let's say 21 years old, at

8:05

Arizona State, nobody would thought

8:07

he was going to be a future, you know, top

8:09

three round pick. You know, he was, he

8:12

had teammates at Arizona State who didn't like him, they were saying

8:14

good riddance, whatever, and he goes to LSU and he has a

8:16

really nice 2022, and then an elite 2023 season. My

8:21

point is, with May, I think

8:23

the, I think the fact that he's 21,

8:25

two years as a starter, I

8:27

think he can clean up some of those issues. I think

8:29

a lot of them are footwork related and he can get

8:31

better there. I think he's got all the tools to succeed,

8:34

and when you compare him to Daniels directly,

8:37

Daniels is a 23 year old last year in

8:39

the SEC, has that 94.7 grade, the Heisman season,

8:43

unstoppable as a runner, breaks the stat sheet,

8:47

but I think that stuff matters when you compare

8:49

in those two players. Well, it becomes, it's like

8:51

how much, how important is seeing it versus assuming

8:54

he'll get to that, right? Like with Daniels, the

8:56

fact that he's older meant that we got to

8:58

see that year, and now that's what we can

9:00

judge him on. Whereas with May, it's like, we

9:03

don't know that he can get to that level yet. We

9:05

assume he can because he's young and the rest of his

9:07

game is so good and the tools are all there, but

9:10

now you have to project and you have to say, you

9:13

know, in the NFL, with these tools, with

9:15

the experience, with the growth and the age

9:18

and the development and the maturity, does

9:20

he get to that spot or

9:22

does he get ahead of that spot? But that's

9:24

now the conversation, right? It's projecting what he can

9:27

be more than sort of being sure

9:29

what he is right now and what he is right now

9:31

being good enough to be that guy.

9:33

Yeah, and I'm not just guessing on May. I mean, I

9:35

think everything else he's done is really good. You know, PFF

9:37

grade of 91.6 in 2022 in his first year as a

9:39

starter, 90.7 last year. I know people soured on May a

9:41

little bit

9:46

down the stretch, Clemson,

9:48

NC State games, but I

9:51

mean, I still think he's really good. I really think

9:53

May's feel in the middle of the field is

9:56

unbelievable. I think the way he throws the ball

9:58

in between the numbers. his

10:00

touch, his accuracy. He

10:03

can throw a seam with zip, he can

10:05

layer it. I feel like he's

10:08

unbelievable at that part of the field. I wanna see

10:10

him do better, throwing the ball outside the numbers, a

10:12

little bit more touch on deep balls. He's

10:15

flashed a little bit of that outside

10:17

the pocket magic that I think you at least wanna

10:19

see. We don't wanna build a whole case off

10:22

that, but you wanna see it. I think May has shown all

10:24

that. I mean, to me, May's

10:26

still the guy at two. It's

10:28

just interesting to me that there's so many people around the

10:30

NFL maybe saying that's not locked in. The

10:34

underlying numbers across the board are

10:36

really good. Even with

10:38

whatever flaws we're talking about being factored in,

10:40

as you said, his PFF grade has been

10:43

91.5, 90.6. Now

10:46

those aren't insanely

10:48

good. We saw Kyler Murray,

10:50

Baker Mayfield, they'll start pushing 93, 94, 95 even.

10:55

So it's not at that level, but it

10:57

is very good. And

10:59

even things like big time throw rate is

11:01

extremely high, turnover with the play rate is

11:04

pretty low, adjust the completion rate is good.

11:07

The only area you can find where the numbers

11:09

are kind of weak is I think

11:11

some ball location stuff and that does

11:14

show up. But even with all that

11:16

put together, it's still more than good enough to be getting

11:18

talked about as a really good prospect, particularly

11:20

when you factor in prototypical

11:22

height, prototypical size, prototypical

11:24

arm, better athleticism that he's

11:26

going to get given credit for because of the

11:28

way he looks, but he can definitely move. So

11:32

I think all the tools are there and the level

11:34

of play is already really good. We're not talking about

11:36

a total project who can't hit

11:38

anything, is wildly inaccurate and doesn't have all

11:40

this kind of stuff. We just think there's

11:43

the capacity for him to do that. We're most

11:45

of the way there. It's just that the flaws

11:47

are maybe bigger than they looked if you

11:49

just took a surface level, quick

11:51

run through his tape, yep, it's all there. The

11:54

more you watch, the more it's like, ah, there's

11:56

some more problems than I would have liked, but

11:58

I don't think they're disqualified. So

12:01

in the coming weeks we'll get into more

12:03

of our QB rankings and wide receiver rankings.

12:05

The Jade and Daniels move, I'm not ready

12:07

to put them, certainly not

12:09

above Drake May. I don't even know if I

12:11

would want to take him at three or four

12:13

just yet. I think there are some concerns about

12:16

Daniels. He's a dynamic playmaker, absolutely dynamic, and makes

12:18

some incredible throws. Slot

12:20

fade, outstanding, throws outside the

12:22

numbers really well. I'm not sure any of the

12:24

Drake May, like the negatives, are even enough to

12:26

take him away from both two as QB

12:30

two and the number two overall

12:32

pick. To me all it did was separated

12:34

Caleb Williams and Drake May. I think going

12:37

into the process that was sort of the conversation,

12:39

right? Caleb Williams has been the presumptive number one

12:41

for a long time, but we've been saying there

12:44

are going to be people that have Drake May

12:46

number one, not Caleb Williams, in large part because

12:48

of the Caleb Williams negatives, right? And

12:51

most of that is sort of, it's

12:53

the intangible stuff. Oh he paints his nails, oh he

12:55

cried, oh you know all that kind of stuff. I

12:57

mean it was on the field too. He struggled under

13:00

pressure, he kept turning the ball over down the stretch.

13:02

But anyway, there were going to be people that had

13:04

Drake May number one. To me, when you start, the

13:06

more you dive into the tape, the more it becomes

13:08

pretty clear, I think, that it

13:10

is Caleb Williams number one and then there's

13:12

a gap. And maybe there

13:14

is, maybe Drake May is the next guy and

13:16

there's a clear number two, but there

13:18

is a gap, I think. All right, let's talk a

13:21

little bit more about Lance's mock draft. It's over at

13:23

nfl.com, search Lance Zeruline. We've had him on, friend of

13:25

the show, we've had him on here before. Saw him

13:27

down there at the Senior Bowl last week, talking ball

13:30

a little bit. He did

13:32

go Caleb Williams number one of the Bears,

13:34

Jaden Daniels number two to Washington. Drake May

13:36

ends up going number five to

13:38

Zach Robinson's Atlanta Falcons. A

13:40

trade-up by the Falcons. Go

13:44

get Drake May. I mean, I think when we

13:46

get to the draft, the big story, so one

13:48

of the stories that's coming out now, will the

13:51

Bears trade down to two? Right. And Washington go

13:53

to one to go get Caleb Williams. There's the

13:55

Kingsbury connection. Right. At OC now, there's

13:57

just the regional connection to

13:59

to Caleb Williams, that's going to be a big story.

14:01

And then I think the rest of the top 10, the

14:04

teams that need quarterbacks, the Patriots

14:07

at three, the Falcons, who else

14:09

here, the Vikings at 11, the

14:12

Broncos at 12, Raiders again. Will

14:15

those teams be trading up? Will there be some

14:17

movement? I think at least one of those QB

14:20

needy teams does make a move in this particular

14:22

mock. Seeing the Falcons go to five to get

14:24

May, I think is an interesting one. Yeah, I

14:26

mean, the Chargers obviously, or the Falcons rather, obviously

14:28

need a quarterback. The big question for

14:30

them is going to be, do they get it before the

14:32

draft at all? Are they the team

14:35

that Kirk Cousins goes to? Do they find another

14:37

domino that they're happy with in the QB market,

14:39

the veteran QB market? Or do

14:41

they get to the draft? If they do, they,

14:43

I think, have to do something aggressive to go

14:45

get a quarterback. This feels like

14:47

it would be a perfect scenario for them if

14:50

they let it get to this stage. We

14:52

didn't get a quarterback veteran, we need something

14:54

in the draft. To only have to go

14:56

to five and get Drake May, feels

14:58

like a great result for them, right? Yes. Like,

15:01

if somebody loves Jayden Daniels, if

15:03

Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels are one-two,

15:06

you don't have to get up that high, you only have to

15:08

get to five, and you end up getting Drake May. I mean,

15:10

we haven't, I certainly haven't texted him, but I feel like Zach

15:12

would love that. You know? We

15:14

feel like he would, we'll see. Gotta tell

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16:09

other interesting moves here in Lance's

16:11

mock draft at number three the

16:13

New England Patriots team again quarterback

16:15

needy in a big debate in

16:17

New England is you know do you take a Marvin

16:19

Harrison jr. get that quote-unquote generational

16:21

wide receiver and figure out quarterback later

16:23

yeah they do that in this particular

16:25

mock draft and then and or they

16:27

were the Kirk Cousins team New

16:30

England yeah or they yeah I mean Kirk Cousins

16:33

I just used Kirk Cousins as the

16:35

veteran quarterback and there's no other real

16:37

I mean veteran out there that

16:39

you're gonna say you're gonna say we can get

16:41

this guy and compete with right

16:44

probably not I

16:47

mean is you know is Russ terminal could

16:50

you could beat with Russ is

16:53

he free he will be yet I'm

16:56

just saying with what we have right now in this

16:58

mock draft though the New England Patriots trade

17:00

back into the first round and

17:02

pick Bo Nicks yeah at pick 30

17:04

I did predict that Bo Nicks would be getting

17:07

more top ten hype coming out of the senior

17:09

bowl I think more people I think he had

17:11

an uneven performance where that wasn't the case right

17:13

so in this particular idea Patriots

17:16

trade with the Ravens into into the first round

17:18

at number 30 and get Bo Nicks I

17:21

mean I'm somewhat intrigued by the idea of a

17:23

Marvin Harrison jr. or a trade down and

17:25

then getting the quarterback late first again with

17:27

the trade up or into the second round

17:29

the trading back into the first for a

17:31

quarterback thing doesn't have a great track record

17:34

they didn't did it for Lamar and that's the

17:36

one that I can think of that was sort

17:38

of pretty successful most of the

17:40

other ones the you know there seems

17:42

to be more of a reason when they were where

17:45

they were falling where you thought it was attractive enough

17:47

to trade up for as opposed to you've got to

17:49

make this happen go get the guy I don't know

17:51

if I've dropped my Bo Nicks official take yet

17:53

I mean get

17:55

ready it's it's early February but now

17:58

I mean we've got almost three months of this,

18:00

so I will say this multiple

18:03

times, I guess. I

18:05

don't know, I'm getting stared at over here. I

18:07

don't know if Bo Nix is

18:10

gonna be good or not. That's your take.

18:12

No, I'm not done yet. Okay. But

18:15

I don't think I'm the team that

18:18

wants to find out. I don't wanna

18:20

be the team to find out. Okay. You

18:23

know, he does a lot of good stuff. Does that

18:25

make him QB Tyree Wilson for you? No,

18:29

Tyree Wilson was just straight, no.

18:31

The model said no. And I guess I'm saying

18:33

something similar. There is a point where if Bo's

18:35

available in the second round, I would do that.

18:39

Tyree was just a straight, no. He's

18:41

off the board. You did, you

18:44

had. Where's the, where's my laminate

18:46

sheet? I need my laminated. We had an

18:48

email in that I think goes

18:51

along with this conversation of trading back in

18:53

the first round. I love that, getting the

18:55

viewers involved here. This one from Miles Ray

18:57

from Portland, unspecified which

18:59

Portland. Could be Portland, Maine, could be

19:01

Portland, Oregon. We don't know. Bend to both,

19:03

played in both, actually. There you go. Thanks so

19:05

much for putting out a show every day. I'm

19:07

usually ripping through this. A few minutes after it

19:09

gets posted. I think the consensus team building advice

19:11

from the analytics community is invest

19:14

in top tier draft capital in the quarterback, in,

19:18

sorry, again, invest top tier draft capital

19:20

in top tier quarterback prospects. This has

19:22

always felt wrong to me. Every team

19:24

can use other lessons from analytics. Be

19:26

aggressive on fourth down, be smart in

19:29

positional spending and so on. But by

19:31

definition, not every team can have a

19:33

quarterback in a tier above the competition.

19:36

In 2023, the team who most closely

19:38

follow this advice is the Carolina Panthers.

19:40

Obviously trading up to number one to go get Bryce Young. Do

19:44

you see their last 12 months

19:46

as textbook cautionary tale against

19:48

the aggressive quarterback drafting strategy? Or

19:51

why not? Is an

19:53

actually more analytically savvy to evaluate

19:55

if a team is getting value

19:58

out of its quarterback investment. This year. Baker

20:00

Mayfield, Gino Smith, Patrick Mahomes, feel like

20:03

some examples of teams getting surplus value

20:05

at quarterback relative to the investment at

20:07

all different levels of investment. Thanks for

20:10

giving me this to read. So. It's

20:12

a good, yeah I like this question a lot. I like the way it's

20:15

framed. Same, because generally I think,

20:18

I don't think you can criticize a team

20:20

for going aggressively after trying to get a

20:23

quarterback the way the Panthers did for Bryce

20:25

Young, right? It's difficult to know

20:27

how much of that situation, Bryce Young versus

20:29

CJ Strad was environment, everything around them, or

20:31

how much did they just pick the wrong

20:33

guy, right? If they flipped

20:36

it, if the Carolina Panthers got a

20:38

CJ Strad season out of

20:40

Bryce Young, and they'd made that move, everyone

20:42

would be saying, great, great move. You went

20:44

after the guy, you identified him, you went

20:46

hard after him, you made the move, and

20:48

you turned the franchise around in one aggressive

20:50

stroke. Now, this

20:53

email I guess would make the point that the

20:55

move is so aggressive, you almost

20:57

prohibit that outcome by dismantling the things needed

20:59

for the quarterback to be good in the

21:01

first place. But I think it

21:03

is a good question that maybe we need

21:06

to think more about simply

21:08

the value of not even

21:10

just the quarterback, but the

21:13

quarterback plus the other side of

21:15

the equation, right? In

21:17

Carolina's case, it's Bryce Young and his

21:19

contract versus the things he had to

21:21

give up to get Bryce Young, which

21:24

is DJ Moore and his contract, which

21:26

is also multiple other rookie contracts for

21:28

guys that should be. The player at

21:30

nine. Right. This year's first

21:32

round overall pick, which became first overall.

21:34

Which theoretically are going to be players

21:36

that come in on a rookie contract

21:38

making a contribution to your team. So,

21:41

you know, somebody else suggested like, I

21:44

think this was in an email as well, it might've

21:46

been a DM or something. But they were like, what

21:48

if Chicago is actually better off

21:52

keeping Justin Fields, trading out of number one,

21:55

and then even if you have to give Fields the

21:57

$50 million a year contract, the

21:59

extra. or five rookie contracts you're picking

22:01

up with that draft haul ends

22:04

up offsetting the Caleb Williams deal, you know what

22:06

I mean? So yeah, a few things at play

22:08

here. I think, again, I like the frame of

22:10

the question. I want to answer the part about

22:12

should you just care about surplus

22:14

value at the quarterback position?

22:17

I think theoretically, yes, but

22:20

if you could predict what you

22:22

would get out of Geno Smith or what you

22:24

would get out of Baker Mayfield, you would say,

22:27

of course, but who could actually predict that? Other

22:29

than the biggest fans, our friend, Greg Rosenthal,

22:31

is a big Geno Smith fan, he would

22:33

have predicted it because he's

22:35

a Geno Smith fan, or whoever the best,

22:37

biggest Baker Mayfield fan is now after people

22:39

have jumped off the wagon. If

22:42

you could have predicted that, yes. If you could have predicted Patrick

22:44

Mahomes, well, he wouldn't have lasted to 10, right? Everybody

22:47

else would have taken him. So that's the part of it

22:49

that is an issue, that you're making

22:51

these wagers basically that

22:54

the payoff is special. And

22:57

if you miss, it is just like a fourth

22:59

down decision. Like if the Panthers miss on Bryce

23:01

Young, you

23:03

know, you make the trade up because it might increase

23:06

your chances of hitting, but if you

23:08

miss, it is detrimental. The same way when the

23:10

Lions miss on going for the fourth down, it

23:13

does hurt more than if they had tried to kick

23:15

the field goal or punt it or

23:17

whatever it might be. So I

23:19

think that's part of the factor.

23:22

I do think there is a fair question.

23:24

What's happening? Nothing. Tyler's

23:26

just suggesting that I need some

23:29

vertical help in this shot.

23:32

Oh, we're back on location where I'm- We don't have the

23:35

phone books for you. We don't have the adjustable chairs. Where

23:37

I am being highlighted to be- Anybody have a phone book

23:39

over here? Below you. On

23:41

radio, Rho? Mm. Uh.

23:45

It looks too short. This is great. Sit

23:47

up, Sam. Stack

23:50

a couple chairs, baby. So,

23:53

uh. Anywho, do we

23:56

think- Do

23:58

we think the idea- So

24:00

I think the question is actually more

24:02

so around, do you always make

24:04

the aggressive move for the quarterback or do you

24:06

build the infrastructure first? I think that's

24:09

the question that's hidden in this question.

24:12

Yeah, but the other part of it

24:14

is, you also, the

24:16

level that the quarterback is at that you're

24:18

chasing is relevant as well, right? So it's

24:20

not just value and surplus value. There was

24:22

probably very few quarterbacks in the NFL that

24:25

gave more surplus value relative to how much

24:27

it cost than Baker Mayfield, right? I

24:31

think his deal was for 4 million, he ended up

24:33

getting six and a half because of the playoff run,

24:35

et cetera. Six and a half million dollars for the

24:37

level Baker Mayfield played at is great. You would still

24:39

rather Josh Allen at his contract,

24:41

right? Because the ceiling is higher,

24:43

his capacity is higher. Okay, costing

24:45

you more, but you would

24:47

rather that, if you got offered the choice, if

24:49

someone had gone in and said, okay, the Baker

24:52

things worked out great for you, I will offer

24:54

you Josh Allen, his contract with Baker and his

24:56

deal straight up right now, they would take it.

24:58

Any surplus value conversation there doesn't

25:00

matter, like the on paper doesn't matter,

25:02

yeah, because the ceiling matters. So you

25:04

can't just focus on getting the maximum

25:07

surplus value out of the contract, you

25:09

also need, the guy still needs to

25:11

be good enough that we can win

25:13

a championship, otherwise it's pointless. I agree,

25:15

and in the box, like

25:17

the box might go through this off season and they

25:19

recent in Baker and all of a sudden he's making 30

25:21

million a year and Mike Evans gets resigned and

25:24

you're essentially trotting out a similar team

25:27

next year and as fun

25:29

as the season probably was for Bucks fans to

25:31

kind of overachieve a little bit and

25:35

silence some doubters and make the final eight

25:38

in the NFL, are you

25:40

actually a top eight team going into next year if

25:42

you're the Bucks? I mean, probably not, you know, there's

25:45

a point where the nice Baker Mayfield

25:47

story or the nice Gino Smith story, like Seattle

25:49

fans are already saying, Gino Smith's

25:51

not the guy, he's a good story, he's gonna get

25:53

us on the fringe playoff

25:55

team, we were playoff team one year, just missed

25:57

the second year, like that might be that. the

26:00

ceiling and once that, once the

26:02

fields wear off, you realize

26:04

the ceiling's low and I don't want to play

26:06

that game. So that's the issue I

26:08

think with that. So you're always going to do so analytically

26:12

we're kind of saying yeah chase

26:14

the ceiling because at some

26:18

point you're going to sour on the mid-tier quarterback guy

26:20

even if he is cheap. I

26:22

think one kind of overarching element

26:24

though that might be a useful

26:26

sort of change

26:29

in direction or change in philosophy from

26:31

what I think is a broadly correct

26:33

interpretation of what people have been saying

26:35

for a long time is you

26:38

need to start looking more at what's on

26:40

the other side of the balance sheet. Right?

26:42

Like that idea of do you like

26:46

Justin Fields contract is about to be so high

26:48

that you need to reset and start with Caleb Williams.

26:51

But we don't know what the other side of that

26:53

balance looks like where if you get a trade and

26:55

you go with Justin Fields even if you have to

26:57

re-up them at $50 million a year if

27:00

you get four, five new starters that

27:02

are all on rookie contracts that's

27:05

probably a similar balance to quarterback on a

27:07

rookie contract but now you gotta go veteran

27:09

for the other players. I think there are

27:11

NBA comparisons here too. I

27:14

don't know the NBA a ton but I know a

27:16

little bit of how they try to do the team building stuff. If

27:18

they, a lot of what

27:20

they're doing though is to facilitate a

27:23

world where they can either get the elite player

27:25

through free agency or through the draft. And

27:28

if they can't do that they just stack up

27:30

assets. Assets that are never gonna

27:33

win championships but can be pulled to

27:35

go get the player right? And I think

27:37

the Bears actually were kind of

27:39

in that spot. You know, they

27:42

said hey Bryce Younger, CJ Stroud isn't gonna be

27:44

the guy for us but we're

27:46

gonna stack up assets and that includes

27:48

DJ Moore, that includes Darnell

27:50

Wright, that includes this year's number

27:52

one overall pick. So if

27:54

the question specifically for the Bears, should they

27:56

do that again? Right? Should they trade down?

27:59

Take QB two. QB3, QB4,

28:01

and add up four more rookie contracts. Flip another

28:04

first rounder to next year, whatever it might be.

28:07

I don't know if that's the right play. I think

28:09

they're now in striking distance for

28:11

that potential grand slam for Caleb Williams. So

28:14

you have to strike. They put themselves in

28:16

great position. But I think it's also fair

28:18

when we said last year, hey, they should

28:20

draft Bryce Young, and then

28:22

keep Justin Fields and let them compete. I

28:24

think it's fair to criticize that line of

28:27

thinking and say, don't

28:29

just draft a million quarterbacks. Don't just do

28:31

that. Keep getting good pieces, good

28:33

pieces, good pieces. And then when you're in Caleb

28:35

Williams striking distance, you have to do that.

28:38

You have to go get them. So

28:40

I will say, maybe we were wrong last year, saying, hey,

28:42

draft Bryce Young and bringing Justin

28:44

Fields. And I didn't

28:47

hate what the Bears did. It was fine. But

28:50

they put themselves in a great position here, obviously,

28:52

to have Williams plus DJ Moore

28:54

and everything else that they've

28:56

added. Does that answer

28:59

the question in the long-winded

29:01

winding way that we do here on

29:03

the BFF NFL podcast? That's

29:05

how we do it. Other

29:07

things that stood out here in

29:09

this mock. There's another really obvious one. Go

29:12

ahead. We had Jane Daniels and

29:14

then Drake May sliding slightly. We

29:17

also have Fuwaga as the

29:19

number one offensive tackle off

29:21

the board. He goes to the Giants

29:23

at number six. And then

29:26

the next tackle is the next pick. Titans

29:28

at seven, Joe Ault. So Fuwaga

29:30

over Joe Ault. Now how

29:32

much of that is just shoehorning a fit

29:35

at right tackles, specifically, because Evan Neal has

29:37

struggled and because Andrew Thomas is

29:39

great at left tackle? I think there's probably some of

29:41

that in the mock here.

29:43

And again, Lance's dad is an NFL

29:45

offensive line coach. He is as plugged

29:48

in as far as O-line evaluations go, and

29:51

he's good at that. So

29:53

again, I don't know if this is Lance saying, I

29:55

love Fuwaga so much. I want to

29:57

say he's OT1. Because again, people try to make

29:59

statements. with their mock drafts and say, this is

30:01

my top tackle. I think the NFL's going to agree

30:04

and take him first. Or if he's just

30:06

saying, yeah, it's a fit thing, Titans need

30:08

a left tackle, we're going to give Joe Alt at them

30:10

at seven. Whereas Fuellaga

30:12

played right tackle and Evan

30:15

Neal has struggled a lot. Yeah, I mean,

30:17

I don't know if he's doing this, but

30:19

chasing a right tackle specifically because that's the

30:21

spot you need help with feels

30:23

like bad process to me. I mean, we, there's

30:25

a debate as to, you know, left versus right,

30:27

how much can you just swap them over? And

30:29

some guys I'm sure can't, but I think generally

30:31

the opinion is you take

30:34

a tackle in the draft and you flip them

30:36

over day one, that's not going to

30:38

be the reason he sinks or swims,

30:40

right? Yeah. And if you think that

30:42

Joe Alt is the best tackle in this draft, you

30:44

shouldn't be taking somebody else because you need a

30:46

right tackle specifically. And we've seen, we've

30:49

gone past the idea that left tackles were

30:51

valuable than right tackle. Right. Generally,

30:54

but even with a Pinesuul, who is the

30:56

quintessential left tackle. And the Lions drafted him

30:58

and just put him on the right side

31:00

and he's become the best right tackle. And

31:02

it didn't look good in preseason, but he's

31:04

now arguably the best right tackle in the

31:07

game. And he's not the best right tackle

31:09

because he does right tackle type of things

31:11

necessarily. He's just a really good tackle who happens

31:13

to play on the right side. Alt

31:15

at seven though, I think would be, I

31:17

think that'd be a home run for the Titans. Oh yeah.

31:20

Given their needs. Again, like that's their equivalent of

31:22

the Falcons thing on there, right? Like if this,

31:24

the draft unfolded this way for them for

31:28

this to be the second tackle taking the draft and

31:30

then still get Joe Alt, I think would be a

31:32

home run for them. Chicago Bears get

31:35

Malik neighbors at nine. So you get that Caleb

31:37

Williams, Malik neighbors combination. Remember last year at this

31:39

time, we were trying to pair. We did a

31:41

lot of CJ Stroud at two to Houston and

31:43

pairing him with a receiver at 12, I

31:46

think it was that they had. And didn't

31:49

necessarily work out that way in last

31:52

year's draft for Houston because they traded up and

31:54

they ended up getting Will Anderson. They brought in

31:56

Tank Dell. They did eventually bring in Tank Dell,

31:58

but I think that's a pretty. and play

32:00

here mark draft wise bears getting Caleb Williams

32:02

and then a weapon at nine yeah neighbors

32:05

being the third wide receiver off the board

32:07

because Dunsey went at number four to wash

32:10

that Arizona in this case the other the

32:12

other just keys do you have anything else

32:15

no just that that that's another one of

32:17

those sort of critical positional ranking conversations in

32:19

this whole draft who is wide receiver two

32:22

after the consensus number one of Marvin

32:24

Harrison jr. so the other

32:26

place again that again I think is a really

32:28

pivotal spot in the draft is 11 12 13

32:32

Minnesota Vikings at 11 Denver Broncos at 12

32:34

Las Vegas Raiders at 13 all teams that

32:36

need quarterbacks all teams that I think

32:39

a lot of teams have been rumored to trade

32:41

up for quarterbacks but the

32:44

bike in this particular mock draft we have the

32:46

Vikings going Jared verse the edge defender

32:48

out of Florida State at 11 I

32:50

didn't realize until I heard the other day

32:52

the last time they drafted a first round

32:54

edge was a Rasmus James they had a

32:57

run they had a run of catastrophic first

32:59

round edge rusher draft and then eventually

33:01

went to hell with this send two first round

33:03

picks to Kansas City give me all the card

33:05

out that all the corners our friend Rick yeah

33:07

but they went they had a bunch of them

33:10

they just couldn't solve the edge rusher

33:12

problem with first round guys Erasmus James

33:14

can etch you Desi they drafted and

33:16

eventually they just went send Kansas City

33:18

whatever they need to get Jared Allen

33:20

that that will do it pick then

33:22

the Broncos go JJ McCarthy at

33:24

at pick number 12 so I mentioned earlier Bo Nix

33:26

doesn't go till pick 30 and

33:29

JJ McCarthy is the fourth quarterback off

33:31

the draft off the board in this

33:33

draft at pick number 12 to

33:36

the Denver Broncos and then the Las Vegas Raiders go

33:38

defensive lineman Byron Murphy out

33:40

of Texas but JJ McCarthy

33:42

going at 12 to Denver

33:44

I think McCarthy is a tough evaluation because it

33:46

was such a run-heavy scheme there were games where

33:48

he threw the ball 10 times 12 times and

33:51

then going to Sean Payton

33:54

in Denver as a guy with it you know not

33:56

a pure toolsie quarterback he's not huge he's not a big

33:58

guy but he's got a pretty good He's very

34:00

athletic, JJ McCarthy. Intriguing fit,

34:03

I think, for Sean Payton offense. Yeah.

34:05

Did you see Jim Harbaugh? Should

34:07

be the first quarterback off the board.

34:09

I heard that. I heard the number one overall pick. It's

34:11

not the first time he said that. No.

34:14

I think he said it generally during the

34:16

season at some point. And now he's saying

34:18

it as the Chargers head coach. Yes. Now,

34:21

I don't think Harbaugh would say, because

34:23

the Chargers have the number five overall pick, I don't

34:26

think Harbaugh would say, let's go get him. Right. I mean,

34:28

I don't think for a second that he actually means it.

34:30

And even if he did, I don't think it means

34:32

that he is anything other than tainted

34:35

by the loyalty of having

34:37

coached him. But it does.

34:39

If you take him at his word that

34:41

he believes JJ McCarthy is the number one

34:43

player in this entire draft, it does kind

34:45

of raise those interesting questions of, if

34:48

you thought he was a sort of

34:50

generational best QB in this draft prospect,

34:55

you're high enough. Why were you running four

34:57

tight ends? Well, forget that. But you're high

34:59

enough in this draft that

35:01

you could make a run at it, and

35:03

you have a pretty enticing trade

35:05

bait in the guy that you have already given

35:07

the contract to. I'm going to say that Jim

35:09

Harbaugh is making that statement somewhat

35:12

in a vacuum. Agreed. And just trying to make the

35:14

point that I love this kid. Yeah. And he's just

35:16

trying, even if he's being cynical about it, he's just

35:18

trying to boost the prospect of the guy that he

35:20

coached. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think

35:22

Jim Harbaugh would say. But if you did take him

35:25

at his word and think he means it. I

35:29

mean, he'll be there at five. Right. It raises some

35:31

interesting questions. I don't

35:33

think that's Jim Harbaugh saying, I've evaluated all

35:35

the quarterbacks. I've seen Kayla Williams. I've seen

35:37

Drake May. Right. David Daniels. Bo Nix. Michael

35:39

Panix. And JJ is better than all of

35:41

them. I don't think that's what he's doing.

35:43

And he's better than the guy I have

35:45

right now. That's all we do here, is

35:47

interpret the statements without overreacting to them on

35:50

the PFF NFL podcast. Getting

35:53

into the mid-teens, Brock Bowers with the Indianapolis

35:55

Colts at 15. That's the

35:57

lowest I think I've seen him in a while. it

36:00

is and it makes sense just because of

36:02

the position and because of the history of

36:04

Kyle Pitts and how that didn't necessarily work

36:06

out it feels like we all

36:08

want to put him in the top five or whatever just

36:10

because of how good he is but if he slipped to

36:13

15 it would it wouldn't shock people. It

36:16

reminds me a little bit maybe of a Kyle

36:18

Hamilton type of situation where you

36:20

can look at Hamilton say he's an awesome football

36:23

player I think he's gonna be a great NFL

36:25

player but he's a

36:27

safety he also ran slow at the

36:29

combine and then Hamilton goes at what

36:31

13 to the Ravens and

36:33

ends up becoming one of the best players

36:35

in the draft 13 or 14. But isn't

36:37

that the classic example we were asking at

36:39

the time with Kyle with Kyle Hamilton in

36:41

particular is he special enough

36:44

that you throw out the rules of position

36:46

value and where do you take him and

36:49

teams didn't they let him fall to the Ravens

36:51

right middle of the first round we were saying

36:53

should he be the number two overall pick if

36:55

he had been and he's turning to the player

36:57

he is right now it wouldn't look crazy so

37:00

is Bowers the same case like is he

37:03

special enough again like the

37:05

problem is you've got the Kyle Pitts recent

37:07

history of that specific position but that I

37:09

think should be the debate

37:11

again like is he special enough that

37:14

we junk the rules and

37:16

I know we pick on this guy that might be

37:18

no but here's my question would you rather have Kyle

37:20

Hamilton or Trayvon Walker who did

37:22

go number one overall to

37:25

Jacksonville now you could say I would take aid

37:27

in Hutchinson over Kyle Hamilton certainly but there's not

37:29

a whole lot of players in the first round

37:31

AJ Brown I always said is that there's the

37:33

best pick in the first round the best right

37:35

selection that any team came away with but

37:38

there's not more than three or four players that you would take

37:40

over Kyle Hamilton right round so Bowers could

37:42

be interesting there too because you've

37:45

got the few things working against him undersized

37:47

relative to other tight ends does he block

37:49

enough tight

37:51

end generally takes time to develop

37:54

the most recent quote-unquote generational tight

37:56

end was Kyle Pitts yeah haven't

37:58

gotten the most out of him. We'll

38:01

see if Atlanta changes how they use him or

38:03

what the production looks like there. And Pitts is

38:05

at a thousand yard receiver, but it's a season.

38:07

But it doesn't feel like, hey, the

38:09

fourth overall pick, especially when Jamar Chase was

38:11

picked right after him and essentially plays the

38:13

same position that Pitts has been playing. I

38:15

think the answer to these questions can always

38:17

be no on the basis that chasing exceptions

38:19

is probably bad process and not what you

38:21

want to be doing. But I think

38:24

we should be asking them for guys like Bowers, right? And

38:26

we should have been asking them who were for guys like

38:28

Kyle Hamilton. And maybe the answer to that one was

38:30

yes. But I think

38:33

it would be a mistake to just

38:35

let him fall to the middle of

38:37

the first round without asking that question

38:39

because of Kyle Pitts and because he's

38:41

a tight end. We should be saying

38:43

this guy's resume is insane. His ability

38:45

is spectacular. Give me give me the

38:47

good reason why he's not a

38:50

top five drafting, right? Tell me any

38:52

reason why this draft does not

38:54

go QB QB either wide receiver

38:57

or QB. And then Bowers

38:59

like that should be the question we're asking even

39:01

if the answer is he's a tight

39:03

end. He's probably not the unicorn. We'll

39:06

get him 10 picks later. Intriguing playmaker though,

39:08

if he does fall to 15 to the

39:11

Indianapolis Colts, I wanted to highlight Laatu Laatu

39:13

from the New Orleans Saints or to the

39:15

New Orleans Saints at 14. Laatu

39:18

also feels like man, if I get

39:20

him at 14, I'm feeling pretty good. Love it. About that.

39:22

I think you and I are going to be high on

39:24

him as we get into our into ranking season in

39:27

the coming weeks. I want to take

39:29

a minute here to reset because

39:32

Zach, our social media guy over here, we want we

39:34

want to talk about Mike McDonald. Yeah. And the Seattle

39:36

Seahawks. We're going to roll that into right now because

39:38

the Seahawks pick at 16 and

39:41

a lot of Seahawks fans are looking to these

39:43

edge defenders. Jared verse from Florida State. He's off

39:45

the board in this mock, but could be available

39:47

there. Dallas Turner from Alabama. Laatu could be available

39:50

there. But Mike McDonald, we

39:52

haven't discussed him being the new head

39:54

coach in Seattle, your initial

39:56

thoughts on McDonald there, and then maybe what

39:58

Seattle could do with that. at 60. I

40:01

like the hiring. I think we've

40:04

talked a lot this season about how

40:06

good Mike McDonald's defense has been. In

40:09

Baltimore, they've had probably the best pass

40:11

defense in the NFL. Overall, defense has

40:13

been very good. It is running. The

40:15

Vic Fangio scheme was really in vogue. Maybe it's

40:18

going out right now, and the one that's coming

40:20

in is the one that Mike McDonald is running.

40:23

It's the right defense to be capturing. I think it's

40:26

the right style of hire

40:29

to move on from a guy like Pete

40:31

Carroll with. We debate

40:33

whether that was a fair move or not deciding,

40:36

because it sounds like that was a lot more

40:39

not mutual than it sounded when

40:41

they were announcing it. Yeah, the

40:43

Seahawks and Pete Carroll have mutually decided to go

40:45

in a different direction. He's going to move upstairs.

40:48

Everybody's happy about it. It's going to be great.

40:51

It sounds like the longer this goes, it

40:53

was more ownership decided, hey Pete, thanks for

40:55

the hard work, but we're going to go

40:57

in a different direction now. Would you like

40:59

it to look good, or should

41:02

we just get rid of you? And

41:04

they've gone for some sort of publicity, appealing

41:07

way of announcing it. I

41:09

sense you leaving PFF some like

41:11

that someday. We'll just mutually part

41:13

ways. Or will we? You won't get

41:16

fired. No. But

41:19

if you're going to do that, you're now in

41:21

the reality. We're moving on from a legend, a guy

41:23

that's done so much for the team, won championships, put

41:25

us in the position to be successful.

41:28

Who do you try and move on from that with? I

41:31

feel like it's tougher to say, Mike

41:33

Brabel, good luck following that. Or

41:35

even Bill Belichick, right? Or whatever, like the

41:37

veteran retread. I think if you're going to

41:39

try and go in that direction, the easiest

41:42

sell is who's a hot, young, coaching, hire.

41:44

And if they specialize on the defensive side

41:46

of the ball, the thing we're known for,

41:48

all the better. Do you have a way

41:50

that you would characterize the

41:53

Mike McDonald's, the Ravens defense? Because it's not

41:55

just that, it's the Ravens and the Michigan

41:57

scheme. Yeah. I'll

42:00

let you, if you want to characterize the

42:02

scheme in a second, the way I would

42:04

characterize the rosters for both Baltimore and Michigan,

42:07

even if you just look at the PFF grades,

42:09

it's just solid green across the board. The

42:12

Ravens were just really good, top

42:14

to bottom, a good defensive

42:16

line, edges and interior,

42:18

good linebackers, good

42:21

safeties, solid corners, they were good. And

42:23

Michigan's defense was the right self. Michigan's

42:26

defense was pretty much the same. No

42:28

real stars, self reminds me, there's

42:30

a Michigan man over here, 15 and

42:32

0, they went this year, Michigan. So they

42:35

were just, like who were the stars? They

42:37

were just solid across the board, but schematically,

42:39

how would you classify what's going

42:41

to Seattle right now? Yeah, I mean, it's aggressive. I

42:43

think they're good at creating

42:45

pressure, not necessarily just by front four,

42:48

not necessarily with the blitz, but with

42:50

a combination of misdirection,

42:52

of disguise, of simulated

42:55

pressure, creeper pressure, all these

42:58

things to make it

43:00

difficult to identify exactly what they're going to do

43:02

and confuse offenses. We're in the world

43:05

where now the thing that has

43:07

the most success in the NFL, I think, on the defensive

43:09

side of things is some version of

43:11

disguise, whether it's rotating safeties, whether it's changing the

43:13

look pre and post snap in the back seven,

43:16

or whether it's doing it up front as well

43:18

with pressure looks. And we saw that a lot

43:20

with Brian Flores in Minnesota. It was a different

43:22

way of doing it. He would just stack the

43:25

line with a bunch of guys. Sometimes they come,

43:27

sometimes it all drop off. You wouldn't know which.

43:29

But that ability to put an offense on the

43:31

back foot with what you

43:33

were doing on defense and actually

43:35

recapture, reclaim the impetus and the

43:38

front foot and all this, I think, is the way

43:40

the defense is going right now. So that's one of

43:42

the interesting things I think about Seattle at 16. And

43:45

I think a lot of Seahawks fans talking about these

43:47

edge defenders who could be available there.

43:50

And again, Lance Erline going Dallas Turner in this mock, the

43:52

Ravens team building effort over the last few

43:54

years, they have not really

43:56

emphasized edge rusher. It doesn't mean that they

43:58

haven't drafted an O'Dofy. away in the first round,

44:00

or they haven't put some

44:03

resources to there. But the Ravens have done

44:05

a lot of back to front type of team building.

44:07

I think they made a pretty calculated move to

44:10

go get Roquan Smith in the middle of the

44:13

2022 season, and he was a huge part of

44:15

that defense getting better and better. So I

44:17

don't know if Seattle's going to go the edge

44:19

route here, if they're going to go with if

44:22

McDonald's going to carry over. Was

44:24

that a team building philosophy from the

44:26

Ravens from the front office, or was that a

44:29

defense building philosophy?

44:31

Because if you're creating more

44:33

one on ones, if you're creating more

44:35

indecision from the offense, you're

44:38

not necessarily dependent

44:40

on the guy that wins one on one all

44:42

the time. Yeah, and the player, the individual that

44:44

I'm most excited from the Seahawks point of view

44:46

to be in this defense is Devin Witherspoon. I

44:48

mean, we already saw what he did as a

44:50

rookie. They used him a

44:52

lot blitzing from the slot. They used him

44:54

aggressively creatively. I can't wait to see Witherspoon

44:57

in this defense. I know he already named

44:59

dropped Witherspoon as a guy. He was particularly

45:01

excited to coach. He talked about, you

45:03

know, they did a lot of work scouting him. Right.

45:06

They did a lot of work scouting him, and now he gets to put him in this

45:08

defense and see what it can do. So

45:12

draft wise with Seattle, I

45:14

mean, I would take a Jared verse if he was there. I

45:17

would look at those edge rushers, even if they're

45:19

not emphasized in that scheme. It might, that

45:22

might just be where the value is in

45:24

this draft, depending on how the board ends

45:26

up following. I think,

45:29

you know, there's some corners that could be

45:31

available there, but they've really loaded up a

45:33

corner the last couple of years with Witherspoon,

45:35

you know, with Tariq Wolin. And they struggled

45:38

to get that defensive identity back in a

45:40

post Legion of Boom landscape. Right. They,

45:42

they got better, but they never really recaptured

45:44

that magic as a true strength and identity of

45:47

the team. I think this is a good, a

45:49

good way of trying to get that back as

45:51

a, as a team, as a franchise. All

45:54

right. Rest of this mock draft here by

45:56

Lance Erline. I think Olu Fashnu going to

45:59

the Cincinnati Bengals. at pick 18. People

46:01

are souring on him and I don't really

46:03

get it. I'm surprised. I

46:05

thought I was going to be the one

46:07

souring on him because I was going

46:10

to say the run blocking is not great,

46:12

but he's unbelievable from a pass pro standpoint.

46:14

Footwork, technique, he's still really young and

46:17

has room to develop. I am surprised.

46:19

I think when I went into, when I was trying to

46:21

predict people's reaction here, I thought they were going to love

46:23

him. Yeah. Lock him into

46:25

the top 10. Pass pro, that's all you need. But yeah,

46:27

he's ended up more in mid-first for a lot of options.

46:30

If I told you going forward, he'll have a 10 year

46:32

NFL career, he will never be good as a run blocker.

46:34

Would you care? Based

46:37

off what I've seen from his pass protection, if you

46:39

told me that as a given, I would still take

46:41

him in the top 10. So the comp I was

46:43

using for him is Laramie Tunsel, who

46:45

has become one of the best pass blockers in the

46:47

NFL. Right. And his run blocking

46:49

is good, not great, it's fine. I mean, even

46:51

when we used to classify Joe Thomas, we would

46:54

say he's a good run blocker. He's not known

46:56

for that necessarily. Joe Thomas is probably better than

46:58

Tunsel. Tunsel's probably better than

47:00

Fashnu. And I'm not

47:02

saying Fashnu's exactly Tunsel or

47:04

certainly not Joe Thomas. But

47:07

you're talking about a guy who has the tools, has

47:09

the ability to be a top three to five pass

47:11

protecting left tackle in the NFL. So

47:13

yeah, I think I would be happy with that. If I'm

47:15

the Bengals, I would absolutely be happy with that. Oh, if

47:17

you're the Bengals, exactly. No, I don't know what they do

47:19

if they move Orlando Brown back to right tackle and upset

47:21

him. But either way, you've got a

47:24

guy that can help Joe Burrow. Right. Fashnu

47:27

is one of the best

47:29

three pass blocking tackles

47:31

I can think of coming into the draft. Right.

47:34

The three that jumped the mind since I don't know how far

47:36

you got to go back. But it's him,

47:39

Tyron Smith and Joe

47:42

Thomas in terms of footwork, ability to

47:44

move, ability to mirror his technique from

47:46

a pass blocking standpoint. Like those are

47:49

the three gold standards as prospects in

47:51

the last whatever that is, 15 years.

47:55

If he's at that level, then I

47:57

don't care if he's never a good run blocker.

47:59

Like that's worth, it's worth the top

48:02

10 pick easily. I'm kind of surprised,

48:04

I can get maybe thinking

48:06

that Joe Alt is better, you know, all-around

48:08

package and a guy that we want to

48:10

roll with because of what he can do,

48:12

particularly for certain offenses. But I

48:14

guess we're dropping Fashnew into

48:16

the lower half of the first

48:18

round. I think that's overkill. I'm

48:21

gonna let you look through the market, see if there's anything else that

48:23

stands out to you. I think as we get toward the end, but

48:27

Lance is not in on your

48:29

Jackson Powers Johnson to Pittsburgh

48:32

idea. He does have JPJ going to

48:34

the Arizona Cardinals at pick 27. That's

48:37

the pick that they got from the Houston Texans. It's

48:40

a shore up the center position. Interesting

48:42

one though, is the Steelers taking a Marius

48:44

Mims, the tackle out of Georgia, would be

48:46

back-to-back years where the Steelers take a Georgia

48:48

tackle, pair of Mims with Broderick Jones. And

48:51

I think that would be a smart move, right? They

48:53

had to replace, both

48:56

tackles were a weakness coming into the season.

48:58

I think Broderick Jones stepped in, upgraded right

49:00

tackle, have Mims take over for Dan Moore

49:02

at left tackle, and boom, the Steelers would

49:05

improve their tackle situation

49:07

or their offensive line situation with Mims. So I

49:09

don't hate that as a

49:11

pick that stood out to me. Yeah, I mean, in

49:13

order to get to his Hall of Fame trajectory, he

49:16

needs to be drafted by the Steelers. It has to

49:18

be the Steelers. Yeah, so that's the problem. The first

49:20

round centers are automatic Hall of

49:22

Famers in Pittsburgh. I

49:24

guess some of the interesting things that jump back to me

49:26

are the wide receivers in the rest of the first round.

49:29

He has, so

49:31

there's a gap after that initial run

49:33

of receivers, right? Is there another

49:35

one at all, until towards the bottom? Brian

49:38

Thomas at 28 was built. So that's what I'm

49:40

saying, yeah. It jumps all the way from neighbors

49:42

at nine to Brian Thomas, his LSU teammate, at

49:44

28. I have to say, I've gone

49:46

through, I've done quite a lot of work on

49:48

the wide receivers. Brian Thomas was the one big

49:50

name, consensus kind of guy that

49:53

everyone's high on that I did not like

49:55

particularly at all. So, and there's

49:57

enough people I've seen since that that really

49:59

like it. him that I want to take

50:01

another run through that just to check myself but

50:03

him being a 28 to the Buffalo Bills so

50:05

it's a good fit in terms of receiver needy

50:07

team and then number 31

50:09

Roman Wilson the Michigan receiver senior ball

50:12

standout that we talked about getting himself into the first

50:14

round and going to Kansas City. Just watched a lot

50:17

of Roman Wilson the other day saw him at the

50:19

senior ball last week him so we'll talk about him

50:21

at 31 to the Chiefs I mean

50:23

the Chiefs pairing the receiver with them makes a

50:25

lot of sense and then

50:27

Darius Robinson the defensive

50:29

lineman out of Missouri goes to the Lions at

50:31

29 those are

50:34

two picks again I don't know

50:36

Lance's reasoning if it's I legitimately saw these guys at

50:38

the senior ball and they stood out and they were

50:40

awesome I think they're going first round now or if

50:42

we're just trying to make a point they were two

50:44

of the best players at the senior ball this

50:47

is where they could be but Roman

50:49

Wilson I you know I think he had been

50:51

looked at as a second-rounder at best yeah previously

50:53

more of a third round type of guy him

50:55

going to the first round of the Chiefs outstanding

50:59

route runner that would be a good

51:01

fit yeah I mean it's a nice fit it's

51:03

just fascinating to me so that means five wide

51:05

receivers in the first round in his mock and

51:07

two of them are Brian Thomas and Roman Wilson

51:09

which leaves a lot of sort of big names

51:11

out of that first round the people are putting

51:13

in there regularly at the moment it does and

51:16

then with Darius Robinson he's a guy that's played

51:18

defensive interior defensive line the majority of his career

51:20

Missouri played outside he did have one

51:22

of the better senior bowls you know I

51:24

honestly don't always trust other

51:27

people's eyes in reaction sure in part

51:29

because as we've said at the senior bowl you

51:31

don't get to see everything sometimes you miss some

51:33

reps it's impossible to see everything but

51:35

Darius Robinson I think the consensus was

51:38

correct yeah on this snap for snap

51:40

really a dominant senior bowl he's

51:43

he's massive he's really big for

51:45

an edge rusher right he's 285

51:47

with with incredible length and power

51:49

so my

51:53

ma my mom wants to know when the

51:55

podcast is starting yeah I only checked

51:57

it because you know

51:59

if my mom texts me it's like right hope

52:01

something serious isn't going on here. Yeah, and then

52:03

I read it It's like text us when you're

52:05

gonna start. She's mad that we're starting late. I

52:07

know I apologize her and everybody else It's a

52:09

late start to the podcast here, you know, because

52:11

we can't go live. Sorry to finish the Darius

52:13

Robinson thought though He's gonna be

52:15

one to keep an eye on because the senior bowl was special Great

52:18

length and movement skills and the whole deal

52:21

has been pretty good from a production standpoint

52:24

But he's kind of easy a tweener body Tweener

52:27

style but boy that that

52:29

senior bowl reminded me a little bit of Jermaine Johnson

52:32

senior Bowl Jets edge

52:34

rusher who had really limited

52:36

college production But was

52:38

really unblockable at the senior bowl and eventually that

52:40

did you know translate to the NFL? Yeah, really

52:43

good to go to the senior ball and particularly

52:45

against the run like he was dominating all week

52:47

You get in those run drills. Yeah, he's guy.

52:49

I think that's put himself in the first round

52:53

Anything else you want to talk about mock draft wise we

52:55

had Tyler Guyton We've a guy that we've talked about a

52:57

bunch goes 25 to the Green Bay Packers another to me

53:00

He's a developmental type prospect because he's

53:02

got such limited experience limited production at

53:05

least by PFF standards, but all

53:08

the tools I mean he's like he's

53:10

a fashnu type as far as What

53:14

he can do what you see but fashion is

53:16

still more advanced I think from a pass pro

53:18

standpoint so them two kinda I

53:20

don't know if they're gonna start converging in mock

53:22

drafts right posh new and Guyton here Yeah, and

53:24

a decent run in corner backs in the draft.

53:26

So what do we got four? four

53:29

five Five

53:31

corners I think going this first round as well Starting

53:34

with the guy that I think is starting

53:36

to emerge Maybe as the number

53:38

one consensus corner Taryn Arnold the Alabama

53:41

corner more and more people I see

53:43

now are having him Consensus number one

53:45

guy he goes at number

53:47

eight to the Los Angeles Chargers after that

53:49

trade Then the next

53:51

corner off the board is your guy

53:53

Quinnum Mitchell at 17 to the Jags

53:56

if there's a There's an alternative

53:59

to Arnold as an number one corner. I

54:01

think Mitchell is putting himself in that category.

54:03

He had a strong senior ball as well.

54:05

Nineteen is the little corner run. The Rams

54:07

getting Nate Wiggins, the Clemson corner.

54:10

Kool-Aid, McInistry, 22 to the Philadelphia

54:12

Eagles, who absolutely need a new

54:14

injection of youth at corner. And

54:16

then 26 with Rake Straw Jr.

54:19

from Missouri going to the Bucks. That

54:21

was the final one, right? So a decent run of

54:23

corners in the first round as well. The Eagles taking

54:25

a corner. They're one of the teams I've mocked corners

54:27

to them a lot through the years and the fans

54:29

get very mad. They're like, how

54:32

are we not going to do that? How

54:34

is track record is very much we're

54:36

taking the trench players. We're taking O-line, D-line. That's

54:39

what we do. I do

54:41

wonder if this is a year where they do... They're going

54:43

to do a little bit of free agency maybe, but if

54:45

they do go for the youth movement because

54:47

of how quickly James Bradbury

54:50

seems to age and then

54:52

just the fact that Slay is getting a

54:54

little bit older as well. Just Slay. There's a name

54:56

for it. Rico said it's just Slay during

54:59

that playoff match. Whenever they had their game.

55:01

The people though, they will shout at you

55:03

that they've got the replacements

55:06

ready made. Eli Ricks is going to get a year

55:08

older, a year better. He's going to step in. He's

55:10

going to be the guy. Keely

55:13

Ringo, right? We're just preparing

55:15

for what the people are going to do. Big

55:17

talent. Big prototypical corner. He's going to be the

55:19

guy next year. Okay, yes. Maybe

55:21

that's the world that happens. Eli Ricks and

55:23

Keely Ringo step in and there are your

55:25

new Bradbury and Slay. They're going to take

55:28

you to the Super Bowl. Alternatively, you

55:30

might need more new young corners

55:32

to come in. All right. There's one

55:34

more thing we need to touch on today. Yeah. I think

55:36

we hit on everything. What's in the title? Did we talk

55:38

Mike McDonald? We did the mock and we talked Drake. Hey,

55:41

we covered everything. Mike

55:43

Rabel. The

55:45

amount of bias that

55:48

a large human being has to deal with

55:50

around today's NFL. I was about

55:53

to ask, are we covering this

55:55

because you are unusually sensitive to

55:57

bigism as a large human. I

56:00

mean, why even have a

56:02

draft model that's going to double your draft hit rate?

56:04

Why even have this if

56:06

Mike Rabel, who's smaller than me, the

56:10

word around the league is that he's too

56:12

big. He's just too big and strong and

56:14

intimidating for these little owners to deal with.

56:17

He's just too intimidating. So for anybody- What

56:19

does that do? What does that say for

56:22

people like me that are trying

56:25

to get into the GM door here? Let's get to that

56:27

in a minute. For people that don't know,

56:30

what the hell are you talking about? What are we talking about?

56:32

Set it up. You tell me. I

56:35

just asked you. You're on the rent. What the hell are you on

56:37

about? Diana Ricini. I'm not going to quote her directly because I

56:39

don't have it right in front of me. You can find it if

56:41

you want. Diana Ricini. Diana, get

56:43

on the podcast, by the way. We'll get to Diana

56:45

at some point. Cool. Hopefully. We'll

56:48

see. Diana reported from the Senior Bowl that

56:52

some GM, you know what she was asking about,

56:54

Rabel and some GM basically said, do you have

56:56

the quote exactly? So, and there's two, right? She

56:58

followed up. An

57:00

anonymous GM tells Diana Ricini that Rabel's physical

57:03

stature may have been a factor. Quote, he's

57:05

a very large human being and can be

57:07

very intimidating to people in an organization. She

57:10

then quote tweeted that. That was from the

57:12

athletic who was turning this into social

57:15

media fodder. And she says, I absolutely

57:17

laughed at the notion. But

57:19

the GM followed up by saying, quote,

57:21

I'm just telling you, I've been in

57:23

rooms and somebody's physical presence can make

57:26

a difference. End quote. Got

57:33

it. Large human. It's just

57:35

not kind. It's not nice. It's

57:37

not nice. You

57:39

have to admit though, as an unusually

57:42

large human, that it

57:44

is a thing. I mean, you

57:46

have a presence to you that certain

57:48

people find unusually intimidating. Now

57:50

I'm not one of them. Right. As

57:54

you've said, like I don't use that enough.

57:56

So maybe I'm okay. Maybe I'm okay. Maybe

57:58

Rabel isn't it? Maybe he does. We

58:00

were at Titan's camp. There

58:02

was a brawl. And there were, and

58:05

were you there? Or I was there that day, right? There

58:07

was a brawl. And there's helmets

58:09

flying or whatever, and Mike Vrabel just jumps in the

58:11

middle of it. I'm gonna break this up. I might

58:13

start throwing some blows too, you know? I don't know.

58:16

We'll see what happens. See how mad I am. I

58:18

don't do that. My flaps and fools are on the

58:20

habit. I don't care if your helmets are flying around

58:22

here and I don't have one on, we're doing this.

58:25

So yeah, I mean, he's probably more intimidating than me. But

58:28

I'm bigger than him. Yeah, you are. But

58:31

I think it sounds ridiculous, right? And it

58:33

should be ridiculous. But there are definitely individuals

58:35

out there in the world who are unusually

58:37

intimidated by exceptionally large people. We know some

58:39

of them, right? I have remarked on it

58:41

repeatedly for the last several years. We have

58:43

coworkers. Right, there are certain people that find

58:46

you unusually scary. Never the right people though.

58:48

I'm not, no, I know. Never the people

58:50

that, you know. Right, it's not helping you,

58:52

but you know. Pay the bills or anything.

58:54

It's never the right people that are intimidated.

58:56

I don't find you physically intimidating, but certain

58:58

people do. And if one of those people is

59:00

running an NFL team, you're not getting

59:03

the GM gig. They're gonna take one look at you

59:05

and they go, I'm not letting big goofy sit in

59:07

a room opposite me and intimidate me over a draft

59:09

decision. I just feel like I'm letting it happen. The

59:11

potential GM options just got cut in half, a third,

59:13

a quarter, I don't know. It got reduced. Who are

59:15

the biggest owners in the NFL? I gotta figure

59:18

out who's gonna be like least intimidated. Yeah, I

59:20

don't know. There aren't, I don't know. Anybody know

59:22

anybody, I need. Earth

59:25

Day wouldn't be intimidated. There aren't that

59:28

many giant owners. I don't think size

59:30

is your thing, right? Tapper wouldn't be intimidated. He'd just

59:32

be chucking water at me or something. For example, there's

59:34

not a chance in hell, there's not

59:36

a chance in hell that Jerry Jones is concerned by

59:38

your size, right? No,

59:41

Jerry's seen some stuff through the years. He's

59:43

not. Jerry doesn't care that you're a giant

59:45

human. David Tapper probably doesn't care that you're

59:47

a giant human. They got bigger fish to

59:49

fry. They got other things to deal with.

59:51

They wholeheartedly believe that they can ruin your

59:53

life and extinguish you if

59:56

you overstep the boundaries, right? I mean, that's the thing. That's

59:58

not definitely going to be intimidated here. Falls

1:00:00

in your court. But there are owners, I don't

1:00:02

know how many. There's 32 NFL owners, I don't

1:00:04

know what the number is that would find you,

1:00:07

and Vrabel, intimidating. But I believe

1:00:09

it's a thing. Well,

1:00:12

let us know if you think this is gonna

1:00:14

hinder my chances of getting that GM job, which

1:00:17

we're working hard to get here while we're at

1:00:19

the network in the Super

1:00:21

Bowl. To be clear,

1:00:23

less I get implicated in

1:00:25

this size-ism, I believe it's

1:00:28

silly, but I do believe it's real. Silly

1:00:30

but real. Silly but real. So Diane is

1:00:32

not just making stuff up from the sideline of the Senior

1:00:35

Bowl, this is real stuff. Certainly not when it comes to

1:00:37

this story. Who knows what else she's been saying, I can't

1:00:39

vouch for everything she tweeted. She said it, so it's an

1:00:41

unnamed current GM, it's one of the 32. Yes. So

1:00:44

at least one of these people is in that category,

1:00:47

I believe there's probably more than one. But I don't

1:00:49

know how many. Man.

1:00:52

All right, well, that's the week here.

1:00:55

That's the news from the week. Other news,

1:00:57

we got free wings every day at 11 and two. I

1:01:00

can see it's really bummed you out as a huge human. Yeah,

1:01:03

I'm upset, but I'm gonna lead to more wings to get even bigger.

1:01:07

You did crush that. Free wings, it's free wings time.

1:01:09

You crushed the Total Body Workout. We got six minutes

1:01:11

between now and doing Bob Sturm, doing the

1:01:13

show in Dallas. See how many wings you can have in six minutes?

1:01:15

We gotta go get some wings. They're

1:01:17

free again. I can go do that. You guys can

1:01:19

get 30% off PFF

1:01:21

subscriptions. The promo

1:01:24

code's 30MDS. 30MDS, 30MDS. 30%

1:01:28

off your PFF subscription right now over

1:01:31

at pff.com. I just wanna leave with

1:01:33

this closing thought. I was on the

1:01:35

Jim Romes show earlier today. And I

1:01:37

don't wanna drop names for a

1:01:39

reason. If you have noticed that I

1:01:42

have a different color complexion or that there's

1:01:44

a slight less shine on my head than

1:01:46

there normally is, it's because the lady at

1:01:48

the Jim Romes show came up and asked

1:01:50

me if I wanted makeup before I

1:01:52

went on the show. I told her that

1:01:54

that was more of a question for her to answer than

1:01:56

for me. And she looked at me and said, maybe

1:01:59

we'll just take care of it. to shine off your head, you

1:02:01

know? And at that point, you don't really have

1:02:03

an option. You're like, do what you need to

1:02:05

do, I'm here for you. So if I don't

1:02:08

have that much shine, or if my head is

1:02:10

unusually orange, it's because a very nice lady with

1:02:12

makeup decided I needed to take the shine off

1:02:14

my head before I went on their air. I

1:02:18

love that, that's good. I appreciate you bringing that information to

1:02:20

the forefront here for our listeners. That

1:02:22

the shine is gone. Hey

1:02:25

look, there's Warren Sharpe. Good for

1:02:27

Warren. We did a little fist

1:02:29

bump earlier today. Awesome, Warren. Can we

1:02:31

go try and get a wing? Let's go get

1:02:33

some wings. All right, thanks everybody for tuning in.

1:02:36

This is your Tuesday show, we'll be

1:02:38

back again at some point tomorrow on

1:02:40

Wednesday, and then Thursday show live-ish from

1:02:42

circa. Come meet us at circa tomorrow,

1:02:44

4 p.m. Pacific, as we record

1:02:47

Thursday show. All right guys, see you

1:02:49

again tomorrow.