0:00

Tired of ads intruding into your

0:02

favorite comedy podcasts? Good news! Ad-free

0:04

listening is available on Amazon Music

0:06

for all the music plus top

0:09

podcasts included with your Prime membership.

0:11

Dive into a world of laughs

0:13

by downloading the Amazon Music app

0:15

for free or go to amazon.com/comedy

0:18

ad-free. That's amazon.com/comedy ad-free to catch

0:20

up on the latest episodes without

0:22

the ads. Hello

0:33

and welcome to The Political Party. Today's

0:35

guest is Gloria De Piero, the former

0:37

Labour MP for Ashfield, current GB News

0:39

presenter, former producer of the Jonathan Dimbleby

0:41

Show and all sorts of things. And

0:43

this is absolutely electric from the start.

0:46

Gloria is so funny and entertaining,

0:49

but so passionate. And

0:51

there's a whole load of stuff in here

0:53

about class, particularly around new Labour, and

0:55

not always positive, and just

0:58

life. And you just think,

1:00

even though she says she doesn't want to go

1:02

into Parliament again, what a shame

1:04

that is. But this is just an

1:07

absolutely hilarious hour. And

1:10

as well as real hard politics in

1:12

there, there's also some brilliant

1:14

stuff about P&L Cruises, Pina Coladas and a

1:17

whole load of other things. So without further

1:19

ado, you're going to love this. It's Gloria

1:21

De Piero. Gloria,

1:29

you've already had an amazing

1:31

career and you've still got

1:33

so much left to achieve. And

1:36

depending on what... Don't say that. Oh,

1:38

what? Okay. You've got so little left to achieve. Well,

1:41

what I mean is, what I

1:43

mean is there is more success to come. Are

1:46

you ready to retire? No,

1:49

but I'm intrigued

1:51

about the success that's

1:53

coming. Maybe you know something I don't.

1:56

Well, I mean, purely based on what you're

1:59

Saying. What he achieved that

2:01

you will continue to lead a successful

2:03

life and in many ways. And I

2:05

think it's really interesting when he because

2:08

depending on when people first aware of

2:10

your you're either. A. T

2:12

V personally went into Politics Or Politics Person

2:14

who went into T V: How do you

2:16

think of yourself? So.

2:19

I ended up in the T V

2:21

by accidents. The Labour party was the

2:23

love of my life. I'm

2:26

joined. there is a T. There's

2:28

probably a light you am. A

2:31

Latest A. Mean, I, I wasn't that way at. All

2:35

I want. All

2:37

I wanted to do with work to the

2:39

lead, cautious or runway the students in the

2:41

incredible year. And

2:44

nice. Six ninety seven and then

2:46

I would have made the tea

2:48

all the like. pasa buckle that

2:50

doesn't lead a. I

2:53

mean I tried everything. my. To

2:56

be an advisor to work for

2:59

Think Tank. Know she was half

3:01

me. So. I

3:03

ended up. A

3:05

salvo. I love politics so maybe I

3:07

could get a job. In

3:09

political television isn't that crackers that

3:12

it was easier for me. Six.

3:14

A crack like working.

3:16

So I'm political programs.

3:20

That than it was to catch up in Lend Pass. A threat

3:22

got there. In the end. To watch think

3:24

it was hard to schedule. A

3:28

sigh of so I be.

3:32

If if is the in a we Love. New Labour

3:34

right? So let's just put that

3:36

records. But. If you and

3:38

you're younger than me if. If. You

3:40

remember, it was quite oxfordshire. The

3:42

people that work there. It.

3:45

Was. In. Educational

3:48

turns at least pussy latest.

3:50

The staffers were pretty

3:53

yeah, pretty much palaces

3:55

and them. Most

3:57

normally use laid off.

4:00

bridge educators and I

4:02

wasn't either of those. That's

4:05

my explanation. Obviously

4:07

it could be something much more simple like I

4:09

was a really rubbish interviewee. No,

4:12

I think it will be the class

4:15

thing. It's definitely a background thing and

4:17

particularly given that you've had a

4:19

position in Labour students which often

4:21

is the breeding ground for future

4:23

staff and for future talent. What's

4:26

mad is, and I'm

4:29

fully aware of how elitist it was, but they

4:31

wouldn't have appreciated what an asset you'd be at

4:33

that point. Well, do

4:35

you know what, this is the thing. Actually,

4:39

I think it was healthy. I don't think it

4:41

would have been healthy for me to go in

4:44

there at the age of what, 22 after being

4:46

in student politics. So I

4:48

think it was a gift. It broke my heart

4:50

at the time, but actually I think

4:53

I'm a much more well-rounded

4:55

person for actually having to get lots of people,

4:57

you know, people in the system will go, you

4:59

didn't really have a proper job, but it was,

5:01

you know, it was a job, a profession that

5:04

wasn't, didn't mean that I was running

5:06

around after politicians on

5:08

a journey to becoming one myself. Did

5:11

it occur to you at the time? Did you think, I wonder if this

5:13

is because I'm from Bradford and I'm

5:15

working class. Yeah,

5:17

of course it did. Of course it did.

5:22

Yeah, I mean, people

5:24

didn't really have our accents, did they?

5:26

And actually, no, it's a real problem, isn't it?

5:31

It's sort of, I think, because

5:34

the Labour Party of Arles, I'm not saying they got

5:36

to the top, by the way, but we did have

5:39

trade unions with a sort of

5:41

journey into sitting on those

5:43

Labour Korean benches. And

5:45

I mean, the weird thing

5:47

is Labour students, which people are

5:49

not familiar with it, you will have

5:52

an idea about what that might be

5:54

like. Actually, I think that

5:56

has produced the most working class MPs

5:58

now. I think about... myself,

6:01

Jonathan Ashworth, Vicki Foxcroft,

6:04

all came up through that later students written

6:08

all from very very ordinary backgrounds. Was

6:11

there any danger then if you're there thinking well I'm

6:13

here, I'm bright, I'm young, I've

6:15

got lots of energy, I'm totally dedicated to

6:17

the parties, you put it, I'd make the

6:19

tea for it, that rejection might have

6:22

questioned your faith in the party or the

6:24

project. I think I've only

6:27

just, as I've got older

6:29

I've realised that

6:32

it probably wasn't me, it

6:35

probably was all those things but

6:38

I'm not sure you want to accept them in

6:40

your 20s when the world you

6:43

think might be your oyster. And

6:47

then it does, you know, the world was

6:49

your oyster and you've absolutely recognised it.

6:51

So you worked for, was

6:54

the Jonathan Dimbleby show your

6:56

first TV gig? Oh

6:58

my gosh, right, yes it was and

7:00

actually, yeah

7:02

people were really clever on that show, they

7:04

were much more clever than me. But

7:09

yes, yeah I mean an amazing

7:11

start, it was really like working

7:15

in a library in some respect,

7:17

we would work, like to interview one politician and

7:19

there were long interviews, I don't know, like

7:22

40 minutes or something, 30 minutes and then you'd

7:24

have a few audience questions,

7:27

we would prepare those interviews for like four

7:30

days, one interview,

7:32

like four people working

7:34

on one interview for

7:36

four days. This was before

7:39

the internet so you'd be, you know, you'd

7:41

go to the library and you'd ask for

7:43

every article that had been, you know, ever

7:45

written about Jack Cunningham, you know,

7:49

and you would go through and you'd

7:51

have this weird process where, if

7:54

the interviewer, I don't know how Jonathan remembered it but

7:56

this was the way, if the

7:58

interviewer says yes, that question, then the

8:01

play chart goes to you will go here and

8:03

if they say no then you go to

8:05

that. It was like an entire diagram

8:11

of a map about where

8:13

that interview goes, certainly intellectually rigorous.

8:17

I don't know, I don't know if it was a good watch.

8:20

And would you deal with Jonathan Dimbleby

8:22

much? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

8:24

absolutely I know. I know he's really

8:26

nice actually. And was he, did

8:29

you ever get the sense, because obviously he's from

8:31

an elite background and it's in your broadcast and

8:33

he's in his family and in his breeding, did

8:36

you ever get the sense that oh I'm northern

8:39

and he's this privileged guy and

8:41

there will always be a sort

8:43

of barrier between us? To

8:47

be honest I think there were some smarter people

8:50

who were my peers. I

8:53

mean you know you've got to accept it, but

8:56

that's not really my, I sort of learned that that's

8:58

not really my strength either.

9:00

I mean I'm not stupid, I'm

9:02

perfectly happy with my, perfectly

9:05

sort of confident about what my talents

9:07

are, but a very

9:10

very sort

9:12

of that intellectual

9:16

um way of doing things.

9:18

I don't know if it's really my fault yet, I

9:20

think I might be more instinctive. And

9:23

you worked on The Record as well, which I used to watch.

9:26

Oh my gosh, wasn't it brilliant? So that's

9:28

the job I really wanted. Oh my

9:30

gosh, the crocodile, now that I thought.

9:34

Can I ask about the crocodile, the Big

9:36

Ben crocodile? Sound

9:39

cool. I could not believe

9:41

it when I, honestly, when I got

9:43

that job and that was the show I always wanted to work

9:45

on because I used to watch that show and I felt like

9:47

I was being taken um behind

9:49

the corridors of power. Like people were,

9:52

you know, this program was really teaching

9:55

me what really went on and I loved

9:57

it. And so yeah, so

9:59

I I was at Johnson D'Amour for

10:02

probably a year and then I spent

10:04

about six on the record

10:06

and and

10:09

yeah that was great and

10:11

yeah yeah I couldn't believe it,

10:14

it was working at BBC like bumping into John

10:16

P now and you know John Humphries another working

10:18

class hero by the way. And

10:21

would you, I

10:23

think we're quite similar in the sense that if you're

10:25

interesting to me you just throw yourself in you're happy to do

10:27

anything but you just want to be there you just sort of

10:29

get in the sense that I just want to help in some

10:31

way and I don't know if you're

10:33

the same but I imagine you would

10:36

just introduce yourself to people and talk

10:38

to them or were you shy at

10:40

all? No

10:43

I wasn't shy, I'll tell you my

10:45

real problem actually from going to having

10:47

this love of the Labour Party was going into

10:49

journalism, I found it really difficult to think of

10:51

anything that was wrong with that government. I

10:55

mean honestly I'll just put on record like

10:57

my apologists my editors at the time

10:59

Alex Gardner and David Jordan I literally

11:01

couldn't I was like what's wrong with

11:03

that announcement how

11:06

could we construct an intimate criticism this is

11:08

absolutely blimming marvellous. So

11:11

that took probably a couple of years

11:13

to give me some critical thinking because you know

11:15

when it's you know when

11:17

you have when it's your sort of thing a

11:21

political party it's not healthy by the way

11:23

I'm glad I've got those critical faculties about

11:27

it but yeah it takes some drilling out of you.

11:31

And what were the the ways that you

11:33

found the way to do that then to ask

11:35

about how something would be funded or what is

11:38

the route in for a new government

11:40

that's announcing things that frankly were very

11:42

popular? It

11:47

was hard and I think it was

11:49

particularly hard for me but I think it was

11:51

hard for anybody actually in the media

11:54

because it was it was I mean there

11:56

were like polls done after Tony Blair was

11:59

elected where more people said that they

12:01

voted for Tony Blair, and they

12:03

actually voted for Tony Blair. It

12:05

was quite a phenomena. But obviously,

12:07

you know, honeymoon don't last forever.

12:09

Bernie Eccleston, all of those, you know, that

12:11

was the first like, you know, I'm a straight kind of

12:13

guy. For

12:16

Tony Blair, when he'd,

12:21

he'd reverse the ban on

12:23

advertising for, is that right?

12:26

I'm formula warm. Yes, tobacco

12:28

exercise. That's right. Well done.

12:31

And also given the laws of cash to the

12:33

lady. But

12:35

there was nothing, there was no connection between

12:37

these two things, Matt, you know that. So

12:42

thank God for that, because actually that helped

12:44

you in your work. Yeah,

12:49

yeah. Yeah, I

12:51

would say when anybody wants to get into

12:53

politics, actually, it's probably is it

12:56

isn't healthy to just go and go

12:58

and work for the party and

13:00

then try and become an MP.

13:04

No, I agree. And obviously, then what it gives you

13:06

is you go in skilled. I mean,

13:09

when you got elected, you're still a young person.

13:11

But you'd have all those years in television where

13:13

you take those skills into not

13:15

just the part of it into the way that you

13:18

interact with the media, you got an inherent understanding of

13:20

what shows not just like GMTV, but on the record

13:22

and others will want. Yeah,

13:24

you might say that, but actually, I

13:26

was I was a dreadful line giver.

13:30

You know, when you when you're put into

13:32

the general spokesperson to give the labor line,

13:34

I was absolutely so people in the

13:36

press office thought, oh, amazing, we can just

13:39

shove her on question time. And I

13:41

had to tell the press off. So I

13:43

did it very average. And

13:46

I have to say to the press press office,

13:48

stop putting me up for general interviews. I

13:51

can't remember the line. I just

13:53

I'm not made like this. And I

13:55

think some politicians aren't made like this.

13:58

And some are. And I don't know

14:00

which is the gift actually. To get on in

14:02

politics is definitely the person that can remember the lines,

14:05

maybe put them in your own words, but

14:08

I found it incredibly difficult

14:10

to deliver lines which had

14:12

been written for me in a 70-page

14:15

document. So I stopped doing

14:17

that. I actually, so

14:19

despite you saying that, I brought a skill set to

14:22

the Labour party. It

14:24

wasn't the one that they thought I'd brought. That's

14:27

fascinating because what

14:30

is that then? Is that just, is

14:32

there a part of you that actually doesn't like to read

14:35

a line that someone else has written? Do you know what

14:37

I mean? Is there almost like a, oh these aren't my

14:39

words and therefore I know that I won't be able to

14:41

deliver them authentically. Exactly, exactly

14:45

that. Imagine anybody

14:47

who's listening saying, right, you're

14:49

going to do an interview and if

14:52

you're asked question A, you're going to

14:54

say what's written on page

14:56

17. It's really, really hard. It's impossible

14:58

for me. I couldn't do it and

15:00

I opted out of it and I

15:02

just would do interviews on campaigns that

15:04

I was, yeah, on campaigns

15:07

that I was personally running

15:09

either as a backbench appeal or

15:11

in the shadow cabinet or on the

15:13

front bench, just on specific areas. So

15:17

then people first become

15:19

really aware of you when you're at

15:21

GMTV. Yeah. And that is you go from being

15:24

someone who's basically behind the camera to someone being

15:26

on camera. What was that transition

15:29

like? Right,

15:31

so I mean GMTV

15:33

was Britain's biggest breakfast. It was

15:35

like an institution like Coronation Street

15:37

and I mentioned to you earlier

15:39

that it's gone to the BBC and suddenly I was

15:41

like, oh my gosh, it's John P now. So

15:44

on my first day at GMTV, I got in

15:46

the lift. I was like, do

15:48

I go and get a coffee? And I said, yeah, just go and

15:50

I said, I think I got in the wrong lift. I'm in

15:52

the lift with Britney Spears who's just come off the

15:55

sofa. I know, I know, but it's

15:57

just her own serage me. And

16:00

I don't say anything, it's

16:02

not very long, but I'm like,

16:04

I am in a list with

16:06

Britney Spears. Do

16:08

you just need to stare? It's going to be

16:11

over very quickly, but you need to take this

16:13

in. But yeah, it was suddenly like you're

16:16

going into a sort of, you know,

16:19

the showbiz, you know, take that, you

16:21

might bump in to take that. And

16:23

obviously all the politicians want to come

16:25

on, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, you know,

16:27

it wasn't like busy on the record

16:29

or Jonathan Dimbleby, it was like, right, hello,

16:31

when am I coming on? And

16:34

that was amazing. But

16:37

also that show was not primarily about politics.

16:40

So I have to learn. So

16:43

whereas on the record, you've got like an

16:45

hour or whatever, 30 minutes to discuss the

16:47

budget. It was like, right, it's budgeted, I

16:49

say, Gloria, you got 45 seconds, wrap

16:52

it up. And it was

16:54

like, but but but that's absolutely right.

16:56

People have got busy lives. We're

16:59

upset, we're political obsessives now.

17:01

We're weird. Yeah, but what I think perhaps

17:04

you've been

17:07

a bit too modest about your skills. If you can

17:09

sum up a budget in 45 seconds, that

17:12

is a skill. And that is a skill without your

17:14

politics. It's a massive skill.

17:18

And actually, I think this source of

17:20

tabloid journalists have a far harder job

17:22

than broadly journalists. Because summing it

17:24

up, you know, you have like, you

17:27

know, whatever, 200 words on page

17:29

two, or whatever, as opposed to

17:32

a four page spread in one of

17:34

the post papers, it's a massive,

17:38

it's a massive skill to do that. Also,

17:40

but the 70

17:42

page document map wasn't written

17:44

like 45 seconds. Yeah,

17:46

but they both have their place, don't they? Well,

17:52

yes, they do. But but

17:55

not in the way that politics operates. I assume it's

17:57

still the same now. They've all parties.

18:00

This is the briefing document, get it in your

18:02

head, it's going to go into the top and

18:04

come out of your mouth. Like,

18:07

what? How is that going to work? It

18:10

didn't for me. You know, if

18:12

you ever pushed back, would people say, I know it's

18:14

daft, but this is just the way it is.

18:18

You know, I was kind of going to give you, I'm

18:22

going to pay tribute to Margaret Hodge here.

18:26

So, Margaret Hodge,

18:28

thank you. So I've done

18:30

two question times. They were average. The first one

18:32

was all right. The second one was worse because

18:36

I tried to be, remember

18:39

more of the 70 page document. And

18:42

I was doing any questions. I don't

18:44

know why I've come through another one. And

18:47

Margaret says, oh, come up, come up to me office and

18:49

let's talk about it. And I

18:51

went, OK. And whatever the news

18:53

story that was, she went, what do you

18:55

think about that? And I went, what

18:57

do I think? She went, yeah, what do you think? And

19:01

I was like, well, I think this. She went, well, say that then. But

19:04

that's not like on page 25.

19:06

She's like, it's broadly the

19:08

same. Just say

19:10

that. And I was like, oh, my

19:12

gosh, Margaret Hodge, thank you.

19:14

You liberated me. And I did quite a

19:17

good many questions, but I just thought, you know what? Well,

19:20

say while you're ahead of me. But

19:22

the Margaret Hodge method, everybody's

19:25

going to be knocking on Margaret Hodge's door now. But

19:29

that surely is the way to prepare someone for

19:31

something like that. That's the easiest way in, is

19:33

say, what do you think? And then either just

19:35

modify that a bit to be on message. Mark,

19:39

if we could achieve that as a

19:41

result of this podcast, I think we

19:43

would be the biggest.

19:45

I think politics would thank us forever. And

19:47

so would viewers and listeners, actually. Is

19:51

this the sort of obviously

19:53

you're a consultant now at Woburn

19:55

Partners. Is this the sort of thing you

19:57

would do if you were. advising

20:01

a politician, is that the sort of advice you would

20:03

give them? Yeah,

20:06

I credit, I talk about the Margaret, I've

20:08

not talked about it publicly, but to my

20:10

mayors and to other politicians, I talk about

20:13

the Margaret Hodge method all the time. It's

20:17

interesting actually, because I do also

20:20

some part time work at Woburn.

20:24

But me and somebody else who has been on

20:27

your podcast, Rob

20:29

Burley. So me and Rob, by the

20:31

way, we started at Jonathan Dimbleby at the

20:33

same time, we were both researchers. Yeah,

20:35

and we have talked about this quite

20:37

a lot and have sort of tentative

20:40

discussions about, imagine if we could

20:42

do, devise like a media training

20:44

program, where we could teach people

20:46

to be themselves, the best versions

20:48

of themselves. And we keep having these

20:50

conversations, and we haven't done anything about

20:52

it, but I might watch the

20:54

space on that because I thought

20:57

I was joking that the viewers and

20:59

listeners would be grateful if people could

21:01

learn to be themselves.

21:04

But actually, the serious point, you know,

21:07

it's not just politicians, everybody should

21:09

learn from the political way of doing things

21:11

like business people, you know, everyone thinks that's

21:13

the model, it's terrible. You

21:16

see even in football pondertree, and they've started

21:18

doing this hand signal now when they're talking

21:20

about the ball popping around in midfield and

21:22

they're doing the politician point that Ed

21:24

Miliband was doing 10 years ago. I

21:27

know, do not, it's honestly the

21:29

worst type of communication and if

21:33

me and you aren't going to stamp it out today, with the

21:35

help of Margaret Hodge, then maybe me and Rob Burley will have

21:37

a go. Did

21:39

you ever feel that perhaps you weren't being

21:42

yourself or that you would, there was like

21:44

politician Gloria or has there never been a

21:46

difference between effectively the way you talk publicly

21:48

and privately? Only

21:53

in that second episode of question time that

21:55

I ever did when I was awful. I

21:58

didn't screw up. I didn't get the lines

22:00

wrong, but I was probably like, I

22:03

can remember this, Laura, you can remember it. I think it's

22:05

on page five. So that

22:07

probably wasn't a great watch. But

22:11

I think after that, I

22:13

just thought, I'm not going to do

22:15

this. This is me. I've got some, you know, there

22:17

are some things that I'm not brilliant at. And there

22:19

are other things that I am so linear

22:21

to what you're good at and maximise

22:24

that. And did you ever

22:26

feel during your time as a

22:28

politician that I might have to

22:30

change to get on and either I am or I'm not

22:33

prepared to do that? I

22:35

wish I'd never gone. And

22:37

I think that most

22:40

politicians, I

22:43

don't know if it's most actually, but I

22:45

have conversations. My friends, my

22:48

closest friends are often,

22:50

you know, sometimes

22:53

big people in the Labour Party. And

22:56

we talked then when we were colleagues

22:58

and we talked now, and I

23:01

think you can do, you don't need a

23:03

job. It's very restrictive. You

23:06

can do so much. And

23:08

I'll give you an example of this. It's not

23:10

a Labour politician. Robert Halphon, he

23:14

was like a big figure talking

23:16

about education and social ability and

23:20

petrol tax. Fuel

23:22

duty, I think is the formal word. And

23:25

then he became a minister. And

23:28

he became an office member. I worked with him almost

23:30

80 months ago. And

23:32

I thought about Robert Halphon quite a lot and I'm like,

23:35

I bet you are sad. I bet you've actually had so

23:38

much to say. It was really interesting. You could

23:40

think for yourself. And

23:43

I think people be contrived when they do

23:45

get on. Some people love it and it's worth it

23:47

all. But I think some people

23:49

would be much happier on the back benches

23:51

and young voices. Stella Crease's voice has the

23:53

most amazing power. But

23:56

now, I mean, if you look at Labor's front bench,

23:58

obviously, care from a working class. background, Angela

24:00

Rayner, West Streeting, many,

24:03

many more. Do you feel like

24:05

Labour is rebalancing itself regarding

24:07

class now? That's a good

24:09

question now. Thank

24:11

you very much. There's

24:13

a 70 page document that went into thinking

24:16

of that question. I've got a flow chart on

24:18

the wall. That's

24:21

a really good point. Really,

24:23

most think that, you know, three

24:26

of the most incredible people on

24:30

that in that shadow cabinet are

24:32

from working class backgrounds. That's

24:36

good. It's not enough.

24:39

I'll tell you why I still think there's a

24:41

little bit of attention. After

24:45

2019, so many

24:47

people from seats like mine, what

24:50

I would call working class seats in towns,

24:53

were wiped out. And actually,

24:57

the parliamentary Labour Party has fewer of

24:59

those voices just because there aren't

25:01

many people there. And

25:04

I just think, and I think they are doing, but

25:06

you just have to be mindful of that. So when

25:08

you're in your parks every Monday, all

25:11

MPs meeting, a member of the shadow cabinet talks, it's

25:13

quite open and it can be quite, you know, there

25:16

is room for debate in those meetings.

25:18

But I always think, gosh, everybody, pretty

25:21

much everybody there is from a city. And

25:25

it gives you a different perspective. Most

25:28

cities, this is a massive,

25:30

massive generalisation. People

25:35

think their best days might be ahead of them, or their

25:37

city's best days might be ahead of them. In

25:40

terms, in my experience, massive

25:42

generalisation. They think their best days were behind them.

25:45

And so it's just as important, it's

25:48

incredibly important for the Labour Party to

25:52

tell a story to those communities who abandoned us

25:54

at the last election, why and how we

25:56

are going to ensure that those towns' best days

25:59

are ahead of them. And is that something that's picked

26:01

up in polling? That's

26:05

the thing about cities and towns. Or

26:07

is that an observation? Oh,

26:10

no, yeah, I learned so much from Ashfield. I learned

26:12

so much from Ashfield. So

26:15

Ashfield was your constituency, North

26:17

Nottinghamshire, next door to... Well,

26:19

it borders the Mansfield constituency,

26:21

the Shield constituency. It's a

26:24

coal mining area and you come

26:26

down from Bradford. So

26:29

Northern, but again, Bradford's

26:31

not Ashfield. They didn't like

26:33

it. They didn't like it at all. So

26:35

what, you think you were from a

26:38

million miles away? Well, I thought, well, actually, I'm,

26:40

you know, I thought I'm from London

26:43

at this point. But I won't say that, I'll say I'm

26:45

from Bradford, even though I didn't live in Bradford, but nothing

26:48

like that either. 192

26:53

was my first margin of

26:55

victory, Matt. And I'm not saying that was

26:57

just because I wasn't from Ashfield. I

26:59

didn't help. But

27:02

then you obviously learned so

27:05

much being there. So how does

27:07

it differ from Bradford? Because people would look at

27:09

Bradford and say that's an area that's had its

27:11

challenges in so many ways. But

27:14

would you say Ashfields were more acute or that they're

27:16

just different? I'd say

27:18

they were different, actually. Sort

27:21

of statistically. So

27:24

more people, whole ownership will be higher. People

27:27

are older. The wages

27:30

are lower, not just

27:32

in the

27:34

region, not just the national average, but the regional

27:36

average. Those

27:40

jobs that used to exist

27:42

there, the mines, and there was massive textiles there as

27:45

well. Pretty

27:47

poly was there. So it was possible to leave

27:49

school and have a job where you have, you

27:52

go, well, payed. Probably

27:54

had a trade union. Well, you definitely did. the

28:00

minds. There was status

28:04

and there are fewer jobs

28:08

with less status. You

28:12

know, nobody has

28:15

tackled that. Also, people

28:18

who go to university in those towns,

28:21

seaside towns, post-industrial towns, far

28:24

less half fewer 18-year-olds will

28:27

go to university than certainly

28:29

Bradford. So you

28:31

were elected in 2010? Yeah. Obviously

28:33

Labour lose that election but you come in. Yeah,

28:36

they all went, I thought that was the low

28:38

point, Matt. Well,

28:41

yeah. How

28:45

hard was it to campaign in

28:47

a seat like Ashfield? I know you won. But

28:50

when you looked around somewhere like Ashfield,

28:52

how hard was it to defend Labour's

28:54

record there? Were you still... Because obviously,

28:57

I mean, we'll come on to Lee Anderson.

28:59

I had him on the podcast

29:01

a few months ago and I was saying to him, you

29:10

know, when you were a Labour counter in Ashfield, the

29:13

NHS was getting record investments, sober schools, the

29:15

minimum wage, tax credit, real off, all

29:18

the stuff that new Labour people can reel off and

29:20

he can't with PFI and stuff. But I just wonder,

29:22

and I knew this from campaigning in Sherwood when I

29:25

worked for Paddy Tipping, sometimes you

29:27

would campaign in some

29:29

of those mining areas where the centre

29:31

of employment hadn't been replaced.

29:34

They've just got these estates just on their own.

29:36

The hardest people I found to knock on the

29:38

doors of were single men because they'd say, all

29:41

the stuff you're doing is targeted at families. I

29:43

don't use the NHS. What have you done for me? And

29:46

I just wondered if in Ashfield, as great

29:48

as we agree Labour's record was, perhaps in areas

29:50

like that, it was a bit harder. Yeah.

29:55

So the wealth that was created, it wasn't

29:59

distributed. I

30:02

remember that 2010 election. I remember a lot of

30:04

the comments that I was door-knocking pretty much

30:07

every week from 2010. So in

30:10

2010, the reason why they didn't want to

30:12

vote Labour was they thought we

30:14

were too generous with people who didn't work,

30:17

and they thought we had left too

30:19

many immigrants in,

30:22

as part of the EU, of

30:24

course, in free movement. Those were

30:27

the two things. Now, that changed quite quickly, actually.

30:29

Within a few years, they weren't,

30:31

and certainly by the time it had gone, those

30:33

two issues weren't really coming

30:36

up at all. But those were the things that

30:38

were creating anger when I first

30:40

stood in that election. They

30:43

thought, there's people down there, and they

30:45

haven't worked, and I'm struggling, and

30:47

they just seem to be all right, and

30:49

then, of course, free movement, which they

30:52

felt was depressing their wages. Do

30:54

you think, with regards to benefits and

30:57

things, that people had a point,

30:59

or do you think they were just, after 13

31:01

years in government, you're more susceptible to

31:04

those sorts of attacks, and this was

31:06

effectively a highly effective Tory

31:09

and tabloid messaging, rather than a reflection of

31:11

reality? No, I would give people more

31:14

credit than that, I think. The British

31:16

people are always right,

31:18

and frankly, if anybody thinks they're

31:20

wrong, well, you're not going to change them. So,

31:22

I found the doorstep. I

31:24

was the most in touch with Britain that

31:27

I've ever been in my life throughout those

31:30

10 years. I genuinely and sincerely am more

31:33

out of touch, because I do not knock on doors every

31:36

week. I just knew what people thought, and

31:39

now I don't. It's a pain in the backside.

31:41

You know it's like, oh my God, we're going

31:43

to have a thing again. But it's

31:45

the greatest privilege to

31:48

have that insight. You could just go door knocking

31:50

on your own, couldn't you? I did a bit

31:53

involved, I did a bit involved, for the wonderful

31:55

Natalie Fleet the other week.

31:58

It was actually all right as well. which is

32:00

a former mining area that is going to use to represent

32:02

it. Of course, you know this map.

32:05

We went on a stay and there were, you

32:07

know, a few 2019 Tory voters who

32:10

had previously been lifelong Labour who were coming back.

32:14

So, good? That's

32:16

interesting. Tired of

32:18

ads intruding into your favorite comedy

32:20

podcasts? Good news. Ad-free listening is

32:22

available on Amazon Music for all

32:24

the music plus top podcasts included

32:27

with your Prime membership. Dive into

32:29

a world of laughs. By downloading

32:31

the Amazon Music app for free

32:33

or go to amazon.com/comedy ad free.

32:35

That's amazon.com/comedy ad free to catch

32:38

up on the latest episodes without

32:40

the ads. When you

32:42

make decisions for your company, you

32:44

look for the no-brainers and if

32:46

you have a lot of mailing

32:48

to do, stamps.com is the ultimate

32:50

no-brainer. It streamlines your processes to

32:52

make your business more efficient, which

32:54

makes you less busy. Mail

32:56

checks, invoices, legal documents and everything

32:59

you need to keep your business

33:01

running with stamps.com seamlessly connect with

33:03

every major marketplace and shopping cart,

33:06

schedule package pickups and see your

33:08

cheapest and fastest shipping options from

33:10

different carriers with the rates

33:13

up to 89% off USPS

33:15

and UPS rates and with

33:17

the stamps.com mobile app. You

33:19

can take care of mailing

33:21

and shipping wherever you are.

33:23

Make the same no-brainer decision

33:25

as over 1 million other

33:27

businesses with stamps.com sign up

33:29

with Code Program for a

33:31

four-week trial plus free postage

33:33

and a free digital scale.

33:35

No long-term commitments or contracts.

33:37

That's stamps.com Code Program. So

33:40

let's talk about Lee then as I say he was on the show

33:43

a few months ago, then he got himself into a lot of trouble,

33:45

which not happened in

33:47

the past, but you

33:50

both are obviously on GB news now and I know

33:52

your politics are very different, but is

33:54

there something in the fact that you both were

33:57

Labour people in Ashfield? And

34:02

you didn't know. But carry on. But

34:04

the Labour Party, in different ways,

34:07

drove you both away. I mean, it didn't drive you fully

34:09

away. But I guess

34:11

what I'm getting at is you can see why he left. So

34:14

why didn't you go to the extreme

34:16

that he did? Well,

34:20

I don't say it's no. I mean, I know

34:22

why he says he left. But I mean, if

34:26

you know, the way I

34:28

think about these things is clear if your

34:31

party, by the way, Lee had been a member of the Labour Party, so

34:33

he was 16, new

34:36

to elected office. He'd only

34:38

been a councillor for a couple of years, maybe

34:42

three or four, but not very

34:44

long. Your

34:48

party, you have a set of principles. And

34:50

you join a party that must reflect them,

34:52

if you're weird like us. And

34:56

your party will go through ups and downs. And

35:00

it's my view that

35:04

no matter your job is to argue for

35:10

your sort of kind

35:12

of labour in the Labour Party. Now,

35:16

I have never, so I joined in 91

35:18

and 92, never

35:22

voted for a winning Labour leader. Never.

35:26

I know. Oh, my God. Never,

35:29

Matt. Never. Hang

35:31

on. So obviously I've got really good... Hang on. Oh,

35:33

what, do you mean in the internal leadership? No,

35:35

I didn't even vote for Tony Blair. Beckett.

35:40

I voted Beckett Beckett. OK. I

35:42

get that. I get that. I

35:44

was on the left of the... You know, I'm young, I'm on

35:46

the left of the party. I think I might have stood outside

35:48

some hustling thing, you know, I can't

35:51

stop Blair or whatever. No way. Yeah.

35:55

So you... Yeah, OK. I can't even brush over

35:57

this. So would you like a... A

36:00

capital S socialist when you first joined?

36:03

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I massively

36:06

flirted with the cross. Yeah massively.

36:08

I just thought it was more interesting, you know

36:13

More radical better ideas

36:15

bigger ideas I

36:18

mean lasted about maybe three

36:20

years So it

36:22

was knocked out with me before I'd left university Um,

36:26

it's so funny that because I joined the swp when

36:28

I was young did you? Are

36:30

we the same person? I know that's the same man

36:33

But but I was the same I was like, you know

36:35

what and I liked labor, but I was like These

36:38

people are like so passionate And

36:41

they're out there. They're doing it. Do you know what I

36:43

mean? Like well that is really attractive Exactly

36:46

vulnerable people Are

36:50

you young do you know what I mean? But I yeah,

36:52

that's why I understood why some people got whipped up

36:55

in the corbin things You're like, well i'd

36:57

kind of been there Yeah,

36:59

that's very generous actually yeah, yeah, you're

37:02

right we had been there we 20

37:07

19 year old glory and matt we'd have been

37:09

back in corbin wouldn't we without zow? Maybe

37:11

yeah, god, what a thought but I always thought blair

37:13

was amazing. So I joined the labor department was 15

37:17

No Campaigning

37:22

against the greatest prime minister in this country I

37:25

know it's a source of shame to me. There

37:27

is a picture of me and him in my

37:29

kitchen I mean, you

37:32

know, sorry You thrown an

37:34

egg at him You

37:36

are You thrown an egg No,

37:39

i'm looking admiringly as I should have done from the

37:41

moment. I said join the labor party So

37:44

okay, so 94 you vote for becky

37:47

Yeah Obviously, there was

37:49

no leadership election when gordon brown became

37:51

leader Although john mcdonald was going to

37:53

get constituency nominations And

37:56

then okay, so then you vote for I

38:00

think I should have voted for Andy, but that's

38:02

the, you know, we don't need to go over

38:04

that. I voted for Andy. You

38:08

were right. My heart said Andy

38:10

was the right person. But

38:14

Alan Johnson, I want really low, but we had Alan Johnson

38:16

on this. Oh, of course. I

38:18

mean, he's a legend. And he was like, you're wrong.

38:20

You have to vote for David. And I was

38:23

like, Alan, you're like a god.

38:25

So I voted for David. But my

38:27

heart was with Andy. And then I

38:29

voted for... But now I

38:31

think I should have voted for David.

38:33

We basically cancelled each other out. So

38:35

that's fine. So

38:38

then I voted for Liz. Yes,

38:41

I voted for Liz. Oh, right. OK.

38:43

And then you would vote for

38:45

Keir. I vote for Lisa. I

38:47

don't remember the late party anymore. What?

38:50

I left the day Corbyn became

38:52

leader. Well, I mean, what's

38:55

the excuse now? He hasn't been leader

38:57

since 2019. I just don't think I

39:00

could ever join a party again. Matt, this

39:02

is like any time to be a you. What is

39:04

going on? Well, I

39:06

just think I can

39:08

still support candidates and

39:11

I can still vote Labour. But getting

39:13

involved again, I just think, oh my god.

39:16

Don't you miss those begging letters for a

39:18

fibre every day in your email inbox? I

39:20

still get them. I still get emails.

39:23

And I still ignore them. But I

39:26

don't... I just don't think I could join a party

39:29

again. I just don't think I could. We

39:31

need to be Labour. Labour would be the only party I would join.

39:34

We need to have a serious conversation, Matt. Like, we

39:36

don't have time to discuss this now. I'm trying to

39:39

save your podcast. But we need to take this offline

39:42

and talk about why you're

39:44

on. Really? I think I should join. If

39:48

we're talking about how you find it to your principles and

39:50

the sort of Labour party that you think will be in

39:52

touch with the British people, you get

39:55

a vote. I think mine is

39:57

never. Mine's just funny. Mine's

40:00

always been cancelled out by your flipping on. And

40:03

the other way around.

40:06

So yes, so me and Lee are very

40:08

good. I have never thought for one second,

40:10

not one millisecond did I think about Lee from

40:12

the latest policy. OK. Not

40:15

even at the nadir of the corner. No, no.

40:18

No, it's my party. I'm not leaving. OK.

40:21

So where do you... Why

40:23

am I not as tough as you are? I realise

40:26

that's maybe a question about me. But where do you

40:28

get that resilience, that toughness from? That stamina? Oh no, it

40:30

was miserable, Matt. It was miserable. It was

40:32

miserable. I've put on a stone. You know, it's

40:34

like some people say the baby way. I call

40:37

it my baby's manacobian way. But

40:40

I mean, honestly, the parliamentary party,

40:43

we were just all like, I don't know, just like

40:45

eating and drinking a lot. I'm drinking

40:47

too much. It was really tough. OK.

40:52

So then just on

40:54

a personal level, do you realise actually my health is now

40:57

deteriorating as a result of this and I need to do

40:59

something about it? No,

41:05

I just drank a lot of Chardonnay. I

41:07

mean, it doesn't sound bad. Sounds great.

41:11

Yeah. Chardonnay

41:13

socialist. You know what? He's

41:15

a nice person on a human level as well. I

41:17

could have chatted to him for small talk for the

41:19

Kows' Come Home. It's all

41:22

been? Yeah. It

41:24

was very easy to chat to. Yeah. But

41:26

obviously, politically. Yeah.

41:29

Not great. Didn't do it work out too

41:31

well. So then you

41:33

decide not to stand in 2019. I

41:36

did, but I would have lost. OK. To

41:39

my former caseworker, but that's not my thing.

41:42

Yeah. How did you feel about that? Well,

41:45

I was never going to stand in. I'd

41:47

had enough by then. And I'm so pleased

41:49

because some of my

41:51

friends were heartbroken. They hadn't

41:53

had enough and they were heartbroken to stop

41:56

being in peace. But I'd

41:58

had enough. those nights.

42:01

But some people stand because they know, look, I'm gonna

42:03

lose but I get the pay out. Yeah.

42:06

So you did a really honourable thing in not standing even

42:08

though because the net effect is the same, you stopped being

42:11

an MP at that election. Yeah. You

42:13

don't get the same amount of

42:15

money afterwards. No, no, no, you don't. Going

42:18

back to the original point, thank goodness I did have a skill,

42:20

because it's not, I think some

42:22

people think MPs can walk into a job,

42:25

you can't. Not if you've done the,

42:28

I worked for an MP and I worked for the past,

42:30

so then I became an MP. It's tough. It's

42:34

a handful. And there tend to

42:36

be the people who are at the top anyway will get

42:39

consultancy jobs or whatever it is. But you're

42:41

right, I mean, tons of MPs lose

42:43

their jobs and what value are

42:45

they? Well indeed, and

42:47

I actually think it's quite unfair because you do have,

42:49

you do learn some skills in there.

42:52

Yeah. So then, so

42:54

you stand down. How did you feel that you

42:56

were going to leave when? Did you

42:59

feel a little bit, oh, and at least, at least I

43:01

know him kind of feeling. I

43:03

felt very sorry for the Labour candidate

43:05

who is a personal friend. Obviously I

43:08

hadn't spoken to Lee for some time and

43:12

I saw his maiden speech and

43:15

it was good. And

43:19

I did, I messaged him to

43:21

tell him it was a good maiden speech. I,

43:23

you know, I got on with

43:25

Lee. He,

43:28

you know, he can,

43:31

I think the representation

43:33

of Lee is somewhat of a caricature now.

43:37

He can be very funny. He

43:40

can be very good company, can

43:42

be clever. And

43:47

I liked him, but obviously that's

43:49

the level of friendship that we

43:51

had then. And we don't have

43:53

now, but I have. I talked to him, of

43:56

course I talked to him. And do I still, you

43:58

know, and I, I I

44:00

don't really hate anyone, do you know what I mean? I

44:02

don't bear on the muscles. People make their own decisions and

44:05

live with those decisions. Was

44:09

he a good member of staff? Yeah,

44:13

tell you what, he canvassed. He

44:15

was out, I told her I canvassed every week. There was not

44:17

a canvassed session, he would miss. Not a

44:20

canvassed session. Just

44:23

a truth. So

44:26

I guess the place you're gonna see him now is do

44:28

you bump into each other in the corridors? No, no, no.

44:31

In the makeup chair. Can I go first? No,

44:33

but sometimes I do bump into him occasionally.

44:36

I mean, once a month or something or

44:38

I'll see him at a past conference when I'm working. And

44:41

you know, I'll go up and say how I, I

44:43

haven't spoken to him since reform.

44:47

Cause I haven't bumped into him since reform. But

44:51

I actually on a human level, cause you know what,

44:53

I know what Parliament's like. I think you

44:56

have friends in your respective passes. It

44:58

must be quite hard to come be, I

45:00

mean, Lee would know cause it's Lee cause

45:02

nothing's tough for me, Doug. That's what he'd

45:04

be saying. But I just know

45:07

that their place, you have your tribe and you

45:09

have your tribe within your tribe. And if there's

45:11

only one of you, I suspect it could be

45:13

quite lonely, but Lee is as, you

45:16

know, a tough character. So he

45:18

might be all right. Did

45:21

you get a hard time from people, from Labour people

45:23

for being on GB news? No.

45:30

I mean, there've been some moments when it's

45:32

like, what the, and I go, you

45:37

know. But

45:40

I mean, at the beginning, I

45:44

used to have to beg my mates to come on. I mean,

45:46

the Shadow Cabinet roll over that channel, but

45:49

it's just the truth, but it was hard

45:51

at the beginning and I'd be calling in

45:53

personal favours, but I just

45:55

don't have to do that anymore. The Shadow

45:57

Cabinet get that. And

46:00

I'm so pleased that they get why they have to be on it.

46:03

Because people come up to

46:05

me, it's quite weird actually, because when

46:07

I was at GMTV, people came up to me

46:09

but it was massive show. And

46:11

this is a news channel and news channels do not

46:13

have those sorts of numbers. But people

46:16

come up to me quite regularly and

46:19

talk to me about GB news. And I was using

46:21

this little focus group. They've all got

46:23

Labour voting history, all

46:25

of it fed up now. But they're

46:27

worth about there and they don't live in, they

46:30

don't tend to live in London. But

46:32

I'm looking for a lot. I've

46:35

gone quite working class holidays. I

46:37

don't know, I just like going to Toronto enough. And

46:40

on P&O cruises, I don't know if

46:42

you get any money from me saying P&O. You

46:46

could be on the next stand there. But it's

46:49

quite remarkable. And they're all from, you know,

46:51

they're from those towns that we were talking about

46:54

and they look for it. And

46:57

they're just normal people. You

47:00

know, it's just, if you think about news,

47:02

right, news channels, which were like massive deals

47:04

all 30 years ago when they launched, we'd never

47:07

know anything like it. It's like, oh my God, it just goes on

47:09

forever. We'll never stop. It

47:14

hasn't really changed in 30 years. And

47:19

actually, what I would

47:21

say is that, of course we have news of the lessons where it's

47:23

like, and now we go to the high

47:25

courts. But then it's like we

47:27

discuss and debate the news and I think it's healthy. And

47:30

there's obviously demands for it. Well, that's

47:33

what's fascinating is when it first launched, people were desperate

47:35

for it to fail. And obviously had lots of technical

47:37

problems and things like that. Yeah.

47:40

And people thought it had failed, but

47:42

then actually it hasn't been a huge success.

47:45

So what do you think is behind the

47:47

success? Is it that it's doing news differently?

47:49

Is it that it's a

47:52

bit more provocative? What's the reason

47:55

that it's done so well? I think it's because

47:58

news isn't something that... happens to us.

48:01

It's something that affects all of

48:03

our lives. So it's not people

48:05

are tired of that model where it's

48:07

just like, now we cross

48:09

to our correspondence. It's boring. Of

48:12

course, the place for it, but it's boring if that

48:14

is your whole model.

48:17

But our whole model is

48:19

debate and discussion. I mean, when me

48:21

and Chris Hope, lovely man, lovely, lovely

48:23

man. We present our topper.

48:26

Yeah, he's great. What

48:28

a gentleman. He's such

48:31

a lovely guy. So

48:35

when we launched our PMQ show, we have

48:37

good guests on every week, we have a

48:40

cabinet level front

48:42

bench, at least, or

48:44

Salah Creasy, because she's amazing. So she can

48:46

count us on that level. But

48:50

we just get the viewers and listeners, some

48:52

of the cast on radio to send in

48:54

their questions. So we don't think

48:56

it's not about us being clever dicks. It's

49:00

not the Jonathan Dimbleman model. We just asked

49:02

them those questions. So they can't prep.

49:04

We can't prep. And

49:06

I mean, we ended up nice and on the first

49:08

show estimate say in them, it was

49:11

we launched just when the post-epic scandal

49:13

had really broken when Mr. Bates drama

49:15

was when the

49:17

ITV drama was on. And somebody said,

49:20

should Alan Bates be nicer? Now

49:22

me and Chris wouldn't have asked that. Now, of

49:24

course, they have no time to sort of tack

49:26

the line. So they both end up having to

49:28

say yes, because how can you

49:30

not? So yeah, we nicer

49:34

to Alan Bates and a GVU student.

49:37

And is that a fun place to be? So

49:41

I mean, I well, I tell yeah, yeah.

49:44

And I think it's quite so obviously, there

49:47

are most people don't really have politics. They're just

49:49

sort of threshold broadcasters. I

49:52

would say that sincerely. But

49:55

people who have different politics to

49:57

me, quite interesting.

50:00

It's quite healthy because even when

50:02

I was an MP, I would

50:04

only have sort of cursory conversations

50:06

with Tori. I would never, antagonistic, I'm

50:08

not that sort of person. I

50:11

didn't really have friends from across the

50:13

chamber or have drinks with them. It's

50:16

actually quite interesting, quite good for you

50:18

to challenge yourself

50:20

because I'm a mate to Labour. So you end up

50:22

having the same conversation, you go, yeah, yeah,

50:25

absolutely. Yeah, right. Yeah. But if someone

50:27

says, well, I don't agree with that, it's like let

50:29

me test my argument here. So

50:33

I think it's healthy. If you could do that

50:35

with the

50:38

nation, if you could have done that with the

50:40

nation during Brexit, it would have been so healing.

50:42

But anyway, no, so it's been good for me

50:45

on a human level to talk to people who

50:48

were different views from me and I think we

50:50

should all do more of it, quite frankly, is

50:52

healthy. And do you think, I mean, we're

50:55

recording this on the day that the

50:57

CAF reports come out. Do

51:00

you think enough people in progressive circles have

51:03

done that on the gender issue and

51:05

on the trans issue that there just seems to have been

51:07

this is the left-wing view on it and

51:10

perhaps fear of looking like

51:12

a bad person have not challenged

51:15

a lot of the thinking and now the

51:18

consequences of that have really been... Gosh,

51:20

Matt, that's a big question. I've

51:23

always thought on this, because it's got

51:25

to be like a sort of middle

51:28

solution on this. I

51:31

can't be... It

51:33

can't be... I

51:35

mean, if it's like about prisoners

51:37

who, you know, have a separate wing,

51:40

I don't know. There must be people travelling

51:42

to space. We must be able to figure

51:44

this out. I

51:46

mean, where

51:49

there's some kind of consensus and there's been no

51:51

consensus and the debate on this has often become

51:54

toxic. But I find

51:56

it possibly easier to see other

51:58

people's points of view. Then

52:00

some. Part of

52:02

the reason I ask you, I wonder about

52:04

labour and gender. It's never elected a female

52:07

leader. It's

52:09

so embarrassing, isn't it? How can it be? Especially

52:12

when the Tories have had three. I mean,

52:14

every other party is sort of... It

52:16

really needs a terrible... Rachel Reeves, though.

52:18

Rachel Reeves. What an absolute phenomenon. She's

52:21

at the top of her

52:23

game right now, I think. I've known Rachel for about 18. Has

52:25

it changed much? I mean, obviously she's

52:28

not 18 anymore. But

52:33

I just think she's always had this fierce intellect. But

52:38

I just think, do you know what? Your

52:40

speech at Patek Conference last

52:42

year, your TV interview, you were at the top of

52:44

your game. I was saying that to my husband last

52:46

night. And he went, could you forget about this?

52:50

And he went, yeah, you're right. But, you know, like, I'm

52:52

not sure. I'm

52:54

not sure. Yeah, you're right. But, you know, like, it's

52:56

going to be really hard being chancellor. Because of course,

52:58

like, on that night when you win, you're

53:01

like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I can change Britain.

53:03

And then in six months, everyone hates you. And

53:06

it's not very nice, really, is it? Well,

53:09

how are you going to feel at the next election then?

53:11

Not standing. Oh,

53:14

what's the second time I'm not standing? I know, but

53:16

you just finished. So you're

53:18

ready to go at that point. Oh, there'll be a

53:20

government, yeah. And there's probably going to be a Labour

53:22

government. Well,

53:26

no, it's not. I'm

53:29

happy. I loved it most.

53:31

And I really

53:33

sincerely mean this because I learned about Britain because

53:35

I've never lived in a town. Just

53:40

big cities, Bradford, Birmingham, London. That's

53:43

not Britain. So I am

53:45

so pleased that Ashfield taught me what

53:47

so much of Britain is really like.

53:51

But that's really what I take away from it. It's

53:53

not like it's certainly greenbend to them. That's

53:55

a really good question. I made a really powerful speech.

53:58

I mean, what is the point in making speeches? I

54:00

might. Yeah. You

54:02

don't feel like, oh man, this

54:04

is what I have been fighting for all this time.

54:06

This is the party I would have made tea for

54:08

and now it's gonna be in government again. And

54:11

you're in a position to have been

54:13

at the center of it. Oh, I'd

54:15

still have to learn what sort of page 45 of

54:17

that document and I can't do it. Do

54:22

you also enjoy it? If I would have been at the center of it, I'm

54:25

not sure I would put me, you know, give me a

54:27

job. Why not? I'd

54:30

be really annoyed if I didn't, if I had a job. This

54:32

is the thing that screws you up in politics, right? You don't

54:34

wanna do it. But

54:36

then you may escape from it and say like, well, I

54:38

need to get, it's really screws with your head. Send people

54:40

mad. No, but that's just you

54:42

being a functioning human being, I think, because there

54:44

are some people in politics that just the sense

54:47

of entitlement is what drives them on regardless of

54:49

their ability and talents of people who have more

54:51

doubts do less well. Whereas

54:53

that is a good thing. Yeah,

54:56

but you can't have it in politics. You can't, not

54:58

at the top level of politics, you

55:00

have to be absolutely

55:02

tunnel vision, so confident

55:05

in what that, in your vision. It's

55:07

not a normal human activity and

55:10

it's not normal human trade, but

55:13

that's what it takes to succeed in politics. But

55:19

you also did succeed, didn't you? It's

55:21

just that perhaps you got

55:23

fed up with it. I'd

55:29

learned everything there was to learn from it. So

55:32

now, is part of

55:34

the benefit of the fact that you can also live a

55:37

bit of a life? You can go to Tora Molinos, you

55:39

can go on a piano cruise. Oh

55:42

my gosh, do you not know about parliamentary recesses?

55:46

But without people coming up to you going,

55:48

oh, MPs, on your holidays? Oh,

55:51

but no, because nobody recognises you when you're

55:53

an MP. I mean, they would recognise Rachel and Keirim, but

55:55

I didn't really get recognised. The only time I'd get

55:57

recognised is if people would go, GMC.

56:02

Okay,

56:04

so actually going into politics the best way to

56:07

remain anonymous. I'd never tell

56:09

anyone honestly it's like I remember we

56:11

were in Torremasinos so I was with some MPs,

56:14

got to talk to people in

56:16

this bar and he says what do you

56:18

do and I went oh you don't want to know it's

56:20

really boring and he went do you sell PPI and I

56:23

went yeah but yeah fine.

56:29

A few of you holiday

56:32

together. Yeah we do not know you're

56:34

not having the names. I mean

56:36

Jonathan Ashford speaking Faxgrassians definitely Peacock would never talk

56:39

to me again. Do

56:42

you all take your partners or is it like just the four of

56:44

you? You

56:47

know they're

56:49

like friends holidays. Yeah I get that.

56:55

It's a combination. There's

56:58

been many many holidays over many many years. And

57:00

how many P&O cruisers have you been on? I

57:03

went on my first one last year but

57:05

I've done a couple of posh ones but

57:07

I quite like

57:10

the P&O. It's

57:12

a really bad name, Celebrity Cruises, American Cruises.

57:15

Yeah I see the big X as the

57:17

logo. Yeah it's really posh on there and

57:19

everyone's American so they don't recognise you. So

57:23

hang on okay because I've never been on a

57:25

cruise and I've always got made. Oh my gosh

57:27

it's amazing. Okay. It's

57:29

amazing. The cruise is like

57:31

a floating five-star hotel right and

57:34

I couldn't be bothered to get off. I was like I don't want to

57:36

get off James my husband. I just feel

57:38

like everything's free on here. I mean obviously he's paid

57:40

for it. Can you drink all day? We can eat.

57:43

Why do we have to get off? He's

57:45

sort of like wrenching me. Well

57:48

hang on if you're just going to stop in that's

57:51

not the name places that you're going to make me sound by but

57:53

like obviously if you stopped

57:55

in Dubrovnik I'd get out and see it and I'm only

57:57

saying Dubrovnik because I went on holiday and I remember the

57:59

cruise. coming in and out. So

58:02

where did the P&O one go to? The

58:05

Canary's. Okay lovely. Lovely.

58:08

Yeah Grand Canary Runway 50th. We do

58:10

the travel show. Well it's interesting isn't

58:12

it? So Grand

58:14

Canary Runway 50th and what was that like a week,

58:17

fortnight? It was a week. Okay

58:19

perfect and so how many, I guess

58:22

it gets in the morning, you get off, you can

58:24

mill about, you've got to be back on deck for

58:26

whatever time? Well if you want to

58:28

get off. Or you

58:31

can just sit there and just

58:33

have another panicle

58:36

half. I just imagine that like

58:38

the queues for the buffet and the bar are

58:40

always really long because there's a lot of people on

58:42

there. No, really amazing food. In fact

58:44

you know when you go to functions, like

58:46

political functions or weddings, it's like oh, food's

58:50

not great. Yeah. But they're like cooking

58:52

for like two thousand, I don't know, thousands

58:54

of people. It's amazing. You

58:57

need to be talking to Thomas Cook rather than

58:59

me. No because this is, this

59:02

is. I didn't see it going this

59:04

way. No, nor did I.

59:06

You mentioned it and I'm like it resonates with me

59:08

because I always wanted to be on a cruise. So

59:11

celebrity cruises. Yeah

59:13

that's well fun. What

59:16

is better about that than say P&O? And I realize

59:18

it's gonna be, the price is gonna reflect that as

59:20

well. Not

59:22

massively. I mean yeah, a bit. Probably

59:25

the food is a little better and the wine is a

59:27

little better. And the cabin lit. No,

59:31

comparable, same. And are you the sort of person

59:33

that will go and watch the entertainment or do

59:35

you not bother? I

59:39

have done. Some nights are

59:41

due and some nights are done. Okay. Are

59:46

you gonna edit this out? No, God no.

59:48

This is like, this is, I've

59:50

always thought the advantage of a cruise would

59:52

be at night being able

59:54

to look up at the stars, like in the sea.

59:57

It's so like, mindful

59:59

to be honest. just looking at the sea all

1:00:01

day and

1:00:03

there's no mobile phone reception. Bingo.

1:00:05

Is that good? No. It's

1:00:08

good for you. Obviously when you get you can get off the ship.

1:00:11

I mean if you're weird want to actually see places

1:00:14

or just drink Pina Colada on

1:00:16

the night. It's healthy. So

1:00:20

your, so Gloria De Piero's ideal

1:00:22

holiday is Pina Colada. Yeah

1:00:26

full of sugar but you know. I stopped

1:00:29

drinking Chardonnay. Gin

1:00:31

and tonic. By the way it doesn't, yeah.

1:00:34

Yeah. This is, I'm actually drinking, you can't see

1:00:36

this, I'm drinking in no alcohol, fake apple or spritz

1:00:38

while I'm doing this. Oh that's nice.

1:00:41

Yeah very good. And Italian

1:00:43

so very much kind of bit

1:00:46

of heritage there. Would

1:00:50

you, is that, do you think that's, I

1:00:53

mean obviously lots of people drink apple or spritz. How

1:00:55

connected do you feel to your Italian roots? Um

1:01:01

more actually, more

1:01:04

as I get older. Why do you think that is? I

1:01:07

don't know but we're having, we

1:01:10

are actually having one

1:01:12

of my, actually

1:01:15

now I'm not going to reveal my holiday but anyway I'm

1:01:17

going to, yeah I'm trying to do more. Yes

1:01:21

I'm doing, I'm going to, this

1:01:27

is um, but I know this is like a therapy,

1:01:30

but I'm going to the place which was the beach

1:01:32

resort where my dad went

1:01:35

when he was a child but he died to

1:01:37

two, nearly two

1:01:40

years ago and I don't know if that's sort

1:01:42

of a bit therapeutic that

1:01:44

I'm doing there. I've never been there, but

1:01:49

yes I'm going and I make my mates go with me.

1:01:51

That's great, it'd be great. Yeah

1:01:54

so I'll tell you um, oh yeah, yeah

1:01:57

I bet, I'm not sure I'll be bumping into G

1:02:00

news viewers but it's

1:02:02

where Italians go. And

1:02:06

I can't speak Italian properly so okay

1:02:08

so that's the wish me luck. Because

1:02:11

the reports I went to Venice a

1:02:13

couple of years ago. It's amazing it's like a fairy

1:02:15

tale. That's so good. I've never

1:02:17

speak English. But I went

1:02:19

to Tuscany a few years before that

1:02:22

classic New Labour holiday destination. No

1:02:24

one speaks English there and it was a problem.

1:02:27

So my mum and dad decided

1:02:29

not to speak to me in

1:02:31

Italian but speak to each other in Italian. So

1:02:34

I can understand it but I can't speak it. Okay.

1:02:38

Well at least is half helpful. Yeah

1:02:41

and James always says because they couldn't

1:02:43

understand me when I'm talking but

1:02:46

he says I think he might sound like a low

1:02:48

a low like good moaning. You know I'll

1:02:50

just get words a bit wrong.

1:02:53

I think that's the case. That's

1:02:56

more than most people. You just need to take phrasebook.

1:02:58

Google translate.

1:03:02

Well this is great that this has become

1:03:04

a holiday show. Just GB News have the

1:03:06

space for a kind of wish you were

1:03:08

here format. I tell you what P&O

1:03:11

Cruises should be advertising on there because that was breakfast

1:03:13

lunch and dinner that people want to talk to me

1:03:15

about. So GB News viewers then when they

1:03:21

approach it. Is it

1:03:23

obviously I guess that they're kind

1:03:25

of fans because you wouldn't be watching it if

1:03:27

you didn't like it. Yeah.

1:03:30

So people are coming up and saying I really like it or

1:03:32

people saying oh a particular thing you said about a thing or?

1:03:35

They're just like it's really

1:03:37

it's like something like

1:03:40

GMTV is really comparable or they're not

1:03:42

comparable in any way. It's really

1:03:44

like they feel like they're part of they

1:03:46

think it's there. I mean

1:03:48

we call ourselves a people's channel but they think it's you

1:03:50

know it's not just line. It sounds

1:03:53

like a line when I'm saying it but they

1:03:55

feel great ownership of it. They say they don't want any of

1:03:57

the news channel. they

1:04:00

like the discussion of the debate they just it

1:04:03

feels like part of a community of

1:04:06

normal people you know whatever source of

1:04:09

metropolitan elite have in their minds

1:04:11

about who is watching just

1:04:13

people that are used to represent in

1:04:15

ash fields some of the best people who taught

1:04:17

me the most in my

1:04:19

life well what

1:04:22

a great note to end on there's so

1:04:24

much more we could talk about mainly holiday

1:04:27

cocktails what's

1:04:29

yours what's yours are you a pina colada man oh

1:04:32

in terms of a holiday cocktail

1:04:34

definitely um but we've got pina colada so

1:04:36

we've got trotskiism andy

1:04:41

burnham and pina colada in common

1:04:43

what a beautiful partnership

1:04:45

the holy trinity thank

1:04:49

you matt that was brilliant thank you so much

1:04:51

you're a great man great um

1:05:00

well there you go what an absolute joy

1:05:02

that was um and you

1:05:04

get the sense that she has a lot of

1:05:06

pride about where labor is now and where it

1:05:08

ended up and i just thought you know i

1:05:10

was one of those people that left

1:05:13

the labor party the day corbin became leader

1:05:15

and haven't rejoined and i really

1:05:18

at the time struggled to understand why

1:05:20

anyone would stay when the party

1:05:22

was in that state and led by um someone

1:05:25

who was so outside of the labor tradition but

1:05:28

the way that gloria puts it and other people

1:05:30

on the show have put it similarly but she

1:05:32

puts it in such a way that um

1:05:35

it makes me really understand the perspective of people who stayed

1:05:37

a lot more um so that

1:05:39

i really got something from that and it's just a

1:05:41

great laugh it was so much fun um

1:05:44

so that was an absolute treat i've got some great guests

1:05:46

lined up for the coming weeks thank you for all your

1:05:49

messages i am getting stronger and

1:05:51

fitter all the time uh still

1:05:53

learning to walk which is uh i

1:05:55

just enjoy the process of learning how the body works uh

1:05:58

so that's that's a a

1:06:00

literal journey that I take every day

1:06:02

to walk around and do exercises and

1:06:04

things, but thank you if you message

1:06:06

me. It's very kind. And I

1:06:10

will be hopefully, I'm podcasting

1:06:12

and doing radio shows, I'm

1:06:14

planning to return to stand

1:06:16

up in

1:06:18

the coming months, I think. So that

1:06:20

is a great thrill, slightly daunting, the

1:06:23

thought of being on stage with walking

1:06:25

sticks or whatever. But

1:06:27

I think that's what I'm going to do. So anyway,

1:06:29

there will be live shows coming shortly

1:06:33

as well as these continued

1:06:35

Zoom ones. So I'm waffling

1:06:38

now. So please leave a

1:06:40

five star written review because it does help the podcast

1:06:42

get up the charts and share

1:06:45

it forum wide, share it on your

1:06:47

socials, tell your family and friends, tell everyone you know, and I'll see

1:06:50

you next time. Tired

1:07:11

of ads intruding into your favorite

1:07:13

comedy podcasts? Good news. Ad free

1:07:15

listening is available on Amazon Music

1:07:17

for all the music plus top

1:07:19

podcasts included with your prime membership.

1:07:22

Dive into a world of laughs

1:07:24

by downloading the Amazon Music app

1:07:26

for free or go to amazon.com/comedy

1:07:28

ad free. That's amazon.com/comedy ad free

1:07:30

to catch up on the latest

1:07:32

episodes without the ads.