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prove it. I'm turns midnight. Join

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podcast. This

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is the political scene and I'm David Remnick.

0:39

After Donald Trump, one and twenty

0:41

sixteen stun democrats found ways to

0:43

cope. Some marched, some donated, some

0:46

screamed into their pillows. John Love

0:48

It launched a new podcast and

0:50

more than a podcast, a media

0:53

empire. Note: Love

0:55

it! had been in politics for a long

0:57

time. He worked on John Kerry's campaign when

0:59

it was just set college and then he

1:01

went on to write speeches for Hillary Clinton

1:03

and finally in the White House for Barack

1:05

Obama. Love It!

1:07

Then got together with some of his

1:09

former Obama Administration friends Jon Favreau and

1:11

Tommy Vietor. To launch

1:13

Crooked Media, Crooked Media is

1:15

an unabashedly partisan effort to

1:18

counteract powerful conservative outlets like

1:20

Fox. Crooked Media's flagship show

1:22

is Pod Save America, which

1:24

has been a huge success

1:26

in a pretty crowded field

1:28

and now to elections later.

1:30

Donald Trump is once again

1:32

on the ballot and ahead

1:34

in a lot of polls.

1:37

So I called up John Love to talk about

1:39

what we learned last time. And

1:41

why America still need saving?

1:45

John. Welcome. And I

1:47

am thrilled to be with you. I listen to you

1:50

guys all the time. And. I want

1:52

to get into how Pods Save American

1:54

came about and the thinking behind it.

1:56

but I I gotta get right to

1:59

the big. the Biden

2:02

campaign. The

2:04

latest damage was a report about the

2:06

classified documents case, and

2:08

a special counsel said, okay,

2:10

Joe Biden's not going to be charged with a crime,

2:12

but it included the

2:14

unfortunate phrase about a quote, well-meaning

2:17

elderly man with poor memory, and

2:19

other potshots at Biden's mental state. So what's

2:23

going to save the campaign, John? What's going to rescue it?

2:26

Yeah, they've been, I have the answer. I know, that's

2:28

why I'm calling you. That's good that I'm here with

2:30

it. Here's, yeah, look, I think unlike

2:33

Joe Biden's opponent, they

2:35

could not bring charges against Joe

2:38

Biden after an exhaustive 15 month

2:40

investigation. And because we live in hell,

2:42

this is a disaster for Joe Biden.

2:47

This has led to not the

2:49

first, not the second, not the third. Some

2:53

numbered freak out about

2:55

this Joe Biden liability. And

2:59

it's a freak out I have on my own,

3:01

and I recommend people do it

3:03

mostly on their own frequently.

3:08

Here's where my head is at. What

3:11

are we going to say about

3:15

this election, assuming Joe Biden and Donald Trump are

3:17

both the candidates on the ballot in November of

3:19

2024? And you do an I do, no? I

3:22

do, you do. Let's assume

3:25

that is the case. And by the way, one of the

3:27

reasons I do with regard to Joe Biden in

3:29

the wake of this report, even as it led to

3:31

another round of what would happen if Joe Biden didn't

3:33

run is Joe Biden's

3:35

political worldview

3:38

is in part shaped by

3:40

I think a valid sense

3:43

that one of his jobs as the leader

3:45

of the Democratic Party and the anti Trump

3:47

movement is to not confuse

3:50

big and important political shifts with

3:53

the vagaries of the

3:55

news cycle. So those two

3:57

stories I think we will tell about

4:00

this moment. One would be this

4:02

anti-Trump coalition that formed

4:05

in the wake of Trump's victory that

4:07

has led to Democrats outperforming in

4:09

2018, 2020, 2022, 2023, that it may be dissatisfied,

4:16

it may be frustrated, it may be

4:18

angry, but it is fundamentally responsible. And

4:22

that responsible coalition will

4:24

reemerge and make sure that this country is

4:26

protected by a Trump term. That's the story.

4:28

The other story is we will

4:30

look back on this moment and say the

4:33

system was blinking red. What

4:35

voters felt was obvious. They were shouting

4:37

it from the rooftops. The

4:40

fact that age was in insurmountable

4:42

liability. That's where we're at. How

4:45

deep runs the analogy between 2016,

4:47

but her emails, but her emails

4:49

and 2024, but his, I

4:56

don't know, his, his errors, the

4:58

kind of errors that all older

5:00

people make. I don't think this

5:02

is as much a situation where

5:04

you could say the media is unfairly

5:07

drawing attention to Joe

5:09

Biden's age, in part because this

5:11

is not a conclusion people are reaching

5:13

through a kind of like mediated, they're

5:17

seeing videos and they're saying he seems old and

5:19

frail. Now, I think that there's

5:21

a very good argument to be made that

5:23

by all accounts behind the scenes, Joe Biden

5:26

is up to the task. He is able, he is,

5:28

you know, there was a just a report, I think

5:30

today or yesterday in access, kind of doing a play

5:33

by play about a meeting on the border. And what

5:35

you see as a person, maybe he was too angry

5:37

in that meeting, but he was in command. No, he

5:39

gets pissed off with some frequency. Yeah.

5:42

But when you watch him on the stump, especially because

5:44

I think getting older has exacerbated

5:47

a lifelong stutter. He is,

5:49

he was not, he was

5:51

at times ornery and not

5:54

exactly tactful when he

5:56

was a younger man, that some of these things

5:58

were exacerbated and in Trump in the reverse. right?

6:00

He is more energetic. I think the threat

6:02

of federal jail time it sharpens the mind.

6:06

But by all accounts, awry. emotionally, psychologically and

6:08

mentally. Not up to the John John as

6:10

somebody who's. Been inside

6:12

campaigns, inside administration's and

6:14

now it very much

6:17

inside the media world.

6:20

How. Would you rate your body's election campaign

6:23

so far What he doing wrong With what

6:25

are they doing right? Maybe

6:27

not the most does podcasting but I

6:29

am in a place of just or

6:31

of I have no fucking idea. I

6:34

just feel a little bit loss in

6:36

part because so. Late.

6:38

Last week. Mehta

6:40

announces. That they are

6:42

going to. I'm. Not.

6:45

Show people political content in their

6:47

seats now. You. Can say well,

6:49

maybe that's good, right? Because they'll be

6:51

fewer conspiracy theorists spouting political nonsense and

6:53

people seeds. but then at the same

6:55

time. Will. That mean you

6:57

know the the see that shares the New

6:59

Yorker stories of the times of stories are

7:02

crooked. Media stories are leclair that less likely

7:04

by us is to get in front of

7:06

less inform people what I see as a

7:08

media environment. In which it is

7:10

harder and harder to get information in front of

7:12

people. Joe Biden starts his campaign. where the beginning

7:14

of Twenty Twenty Four. Most people

7:16

in the whole do not know that he kept

7:18

insulin costs past the chips Bill passed, an infrastructure

7:20

bill passed, a gun bill passed the Climate Dell.

7:24

The. Vast majority of people do not know about

7:26

Joe by the complements, so when they say

7:28

to upholstery that this is not someone they

7:30

view as being up to the job, they're

7:32

not coming at that from a basis of

7:34

understanding how he performed in the job so

7:36

far. What are we gonna

7:38

ask of the Joe Biden campaign? Right?

7:41

And what does it have to do? As

7:44

the kind of last line of

7:46

defense against this sort of for

7:48

cystic authoritarian. ah. Trump. Second

7:51

term. And.

7:53

Then where is it that we

7:55

are asking of the campaign. To.

7:58

Take on the job. Of

8:00

making up for a fundamentally

8:02

broken. Information.

8:04

System I think we're we're asking is

8:06

that Joe Biden be a much more

8:09

present. Energetic explainer

8:11

of his own case.

8:14

Yes, Well I would say here's what

8:16

I think I wanted at What It What

8:19

is the campaign going to do over the

8:21

next year to make for more? People understand

8:23

what he did and that people understand the

8:25

choice. Right now there are some dismantle on

8:27

of sort of a discourse handwringing at We're

8:29

At We're is that campaign. it's been slow

8:32

to get started. I'm smart people say that's

8:34

true lot of smart people disagree with at

8:36

weddings hours. twenty twenty four. I. Adding

8:39

our the time at it we have to say the

8:42

union coming up that as an opportunity now. You

8:44

think Joe Biden would go on with you? does? He

8:47

has before. I think you will again and again

8:49

should. I. Think over the last

8:51

couple years what we have seen is

8:53

that. One

8:55

of the reasons democrats have over

8:58

performed in special elections. Is

9:00

because. There

9:03

is a very engaged. Politically.

9:05

Aware. Coalition:

9:08

Ah. Of

9:10

nerds. And I.

9:12

They listen, you know, and these are the people

9:15

they're already voted for. Go by. You know, a

9:17

lot of our audiences already voting for Joe Biden.

9:19

but these are the people. That

9:21

need to not just do not just understand

9:24

why they need to vote for Joe Biden,

9:26

but ceiling their bones. That

9:28

they understand why this is worse. Not.

9:31

As voting but giving up their weekends knocking

9:33

on doors for donating for volunteering for and

9:35

feel as though they are armed with a

9:38

persuasive and a story that they can share

9:40

with their friends and family in a passionate

9:42

way. He talked about a broken information system.

9:45

Part is that. Anxiety has got

9:47

to be about who you're speaking to

9:49

and for you can't reach. Young.

9:51

Who you reaching and who you not reaching and would

9:54

he do a bad. Obviously

9:56

we talk about being a polarized country, but.

9:59

Just. As. Horton. A divide is

10:01

the divide between. Hyper engage

10:04

people. they're painted politics and and

10:06

he put down the difference in

10:08

how they think and talk about

10:10

politics. Between someone who knows who

10:12

John Thune as and somebody does

10:14

the know, John Thune is extraordinary

10:16

if and if you are engaged.

10:18

What? You're feeling is that kind of

10:21

an onslaught of political, a non

10:23

political content. Your seen tons of

10:25

news, tons of stories, tons of

10:27

information. If you're not, you're encountering

10:29

politics by accident much less than

10:31

you do. And.

10:33

I do really worry. About that

10:35

big group of people who aren't seeking out

10:37

the news because the ways in which the

10:40

news would have come to them are are

10:42

slowly vanishing, right? Local papers are dying, people

10:44

are cutting the cord a not watching the

10:46

local news they're They're even. their algorithms are

10:49

sharing less information and so what is more

10:51

likely to reach somebody who isn't paying daily

10:53

attention to politics? Who is a democrat, What

10:55

does up front? what is a voice from

10:58

the last they're going to see and what

11:00

has a voice from the right they're gonna

11:02

see. It. Is more

11:04

likely that they're gonna see Margie to

11:07

have a green or a story about

11:09

longbow bird given a handy a beetlejuice

11:11

than they are about Ah, Chris Murphy

11:14

and And Lankford working on a bipartisan

11:16

border deal. And. There.

11:19

And if you're someone on the

11:21

right, are you more likely to

11:23

encounter by happenstance. Ah, A

11:26

smart. Column. About about Joe

11:28

Biden in what he's achieved. Are you more

11:30

likely to see video of Us college professor

11:32

saying that October Seventh was not just justified,

11:35

but that. right? What what it

11:37

would? His party's going to seem like you

11:39

as going to seem ugly is gonna seems

11:41

cynical is gonna seem pointless. I know that

11:43

is going to reaffirm their preconceived notion about

11:45

why they're not paying attention the first place.

11:47

I think we have a pretty good idea

11:50

what you and. And

11:52

your. Colleagues and positive America

11:54

think about right wing media thing that's

11:56

pretty pretty clear and is often. Various

12:00

and and entertaining. But

12:03

also comes out of listen to perceive

12:05

America is a certain. Why?

12:08

Step skepticism about would

12:10

people would call the

12:12

mainstream media or liberal

12:14

media and. And

12:16

a real. Well, just very

12:18

skeptical that lots of individuals

12:21

and institutions. That

12:23

come under that umbrella. Break.

12:26

That down for me a little bit and

12:28

how you came to that. View.

12:31

While being a speech will work

12:33

in the White House while working

12:35

on political campaigns. that's a very

12:37

particular angle. His Vision: what were

12:39

you seeing? And why

12:41

do you cause you such to stress? That led to

12:43

this day. Swiped.

12:46

I think that there's a cynicism and

12:48

political news coverage. And.

12:53

That. Basically. Is.

12:58

Treating. What Happens in

13:00

Washington? The. Way.

13:03

And. Attenborough treats watching animals

13:06

on the on the Serengeti

13:08

you know, observing from afar,

13:10

providing guy explanations and contest

13:13

for other humans. watching these

13:15

animals bow. And.

13:19

What? We felt when we started cooking

13:22

media was that. There.

13:24

Was too much media the treated people

13:26

like cynical observers and not enough the

13:28

treated them as frustrated participants would give

13:31

me and epitome of the first part

13:33

with with with what would be whether

13:35

it's in of. Times as

13:37

opposed to the New Yorker. Network

13:40

television or cable Tv was the epitome

13:42

of the kind of thing that was

13:44

driving you crazy. When in twenty

13:46

and two thousand and. Nine.

13:48

Or ten President Obama went to the

13:51

car spawn a sinner. And

13:53

we made a series of of sake headlines.

13:56

And. One of the

13:58

headlines was something like. Ah,

14:01

In the restore fake historical headlines in one of

14:03

them with something like. Ah, At

14:05

Lincoln says union but kenny same house

14:08

majority. Are

14:11

not you can save for there's low forcing

14:13

their gotten. He's lost the southern white vote.

14:17

And that was a specific moment where.

14:20

Broth. Obama is President. In the

14:22

midst of a financial crisis, he's

14:24

presented with no good options. only

14:26

bad options. He's trying to prevent

14:28

a sleeper panic and. I.

14:31

Don't even remember at this point what. Political.

14:34

Or or legislative victory this followed. Maybe

14:36

it was the recovery ass, but there

14:38

was a story that followed it that

14:40

said something like President Obama passes as

14:42

don't where's the bounce right? I was

14:44

he did something so good wise and

14:46

is showing up in the polls. There

14:48

is plenty of room for political analysis.

14:50

It's a did this policy work What

14:52

people think about this, what are people's

14:54

perceptions but that has swamps. Coverage.

14:57

Of the thing itself and. I'm

14:59

not saying they're in space for the icing,

15:01

but there's gotta be cake underneath the icing

15:04

that gives people a broader sense of what's

15:06

happening in country. And so even right now

15:08

we have story after story about why people

15:10

find. Why? People believe

15:13

Joe Biden is ineffective.

15:16

But very little coverage that explains the people

15:18

what Joe Biden did in his first term

15:20

to be effective. Now that is that that

15:22

is the lot of the Biden campaign to

15:24

overcome fear and Eighty Eight. But in their

15:26

an alternate interpretation of that is that it's

15:28

that it's provided over and over again. Is

15:31

said, it doesn't penetrate the way you

15:33

wanted to. Hundred percent

15:35

you know? Absolutely. And I do think a

15:38

lot of media criticism I am I, I,

15:40

I am certainly not on how many times

15:42

we I borrowed and in about against horse

15:44

race coverage. Of course at you

15:46

know what? those sometimes boring and hackneyed arguments

15:48

are still true for their get were just

15:51

fucking sick of on you know, like some

15:53

to, that's part of problems. Sometimes journalism is

15:55

desperate to find something new to say. We

15:57

are, You know what? The.

15:59

Center. The truth is boring and

16:01

still worth being said. All

16:04

that is the case. I do sometimes think

16:06

and I think I do this that that

16:08

my problem is not supply, it is demand.

16:10

I think sometimes that's a that's a a

16:12

broader problem. We visit on the media are

16:14

criticisms that we really would rather level speaks

16:17

against people. But. It feels. Elitist

16:20

or negative or unhelpful or ugly to

16:22

say. oh people don't care, People aren't

16:24

paying attention. you could tell them a

16:26

million times they wouldn't notice And you

16:28

see, this is by the way, Susan

16:30

political coverage which is oh people have

16:32

no idea what Biden achieved. It very

16:34

rare that a story says something like

16:36

and therefore we're deeply frustrated with the

16:38

American voter for not doing a better

16:40

job of being informed is no there's

16:42

no equity and that the no money

16:44

give him season reading and so we

16:46

visit. We we put the. Criticism on

16:48

the media was put on a given his

16:50

phrase sometimes is the low information voters rexes.

16:54

A. Suspicious Elite isn't. Better.

16:56

Yeah for her. and you remember the

16:58

humor media? the trump moment where he.

17:01

Bellowed. From the from the podium

17:03

we won. With highly educated we

17:05

won with poorly educated. I love

17:07

the poorly educated. Information:

17:11

Official Voters: What did

17:13

Trump understand about the

17:15

media? That others did

17:17

not and take advantage of. He

17:22

understood this conversation. Instinctively.

17:25

This amount always think about with Donald

17:28

Trump and it was from Madmen. This

17:31

is Guy. Pete Campbell is a hustler, is

17:33

ambitious and he's on. She was the nobody

17:35

likes him but he works hard he fights

17:37

in as as smooth talk and other guy

17:39

additives again all the gigs and he can

17:41

understand and finally ah the his boss says

17:44

to him look. Pete. You

17:47

make the clients feel as if their needs are

17:49

met. A Cosgrave. He

17:52

makes the clients feel as if they have

17:54

no needs of the end of I've never

17:56

seen a better encapsulation of difference when Donald

17:58

Trump and Rhonda Santa. Rhonda Sanders

18:01

is desperate to prove he meets your needs,

18:03

but Donald Trump gets up there. And.

18:05

They are have any needs anymore

18:07

and. When he says oh

18:09

back in the day we used to

18:11

bat these people around door. ah you

18:14

know these Nato countries do not going

18:16

to get a free ride anymore. It

18:18

sends a message. That.

18:20

He's on their side no matter what the

18:23

he's gonna say. Whatever. He feels

18:25

he needs to say. And that

18:27

they can trust him than I don't see him.

18:30

Because. He's there does. even if they know that,

18:32

he doesn't mean it, even if they know that

18:34

this is going too far. That.

18:37

It's. A signal that he cares about what they think

18:39

and that would anybody else thinks. John.

18:42

Stewart is returning to television. Yeah.

18:44

You are easily the funniest person on your

18:47

show and that sit and and and extremely

18:49

funny. What

18:53

powered his humor? Have. It

18:55

in a political circumstance. Yeah,

18:59

so I think now. What?

19:02

Sumer does more than anything else

19:04

is it has the ability to

19:06

pierce through right a very funny

19:08

joke or a monologue or an

19:10

argument. It. Can. It

19:13

can. It can make it across.

19:16

The. Information. Skeets.

19:19

Better than basically anything. that of Jon

19:21

Stewart's does something that's truly funny of

19:23

John Oliver does something if if Kobe

19:25

or does something if a random comedian

19:27

does something of a politician does something

19:29

that actually is funny and makes people

19:31

laugh in a way that makes an

19:33

argument that can go everywhere canal your

19:36

biden. polyphony. You.

19:39

Know we had a funny moment with Steve Doocy

19:41

right? Steve Doocy said you have a problem with

19:43

your memory as I yard so bad I called

19:45

on you those pretty funny as pretty By do

19:47

I think Joe Biden has the timing the Barack

19:49

Obama had when he did the cars vans and

19:51

are I did not. Ah but I think he

19:53

has his moments and he has his moments. How

19:55

was it possible that after his losing and twenty

19:57

twenty. After. January

19:59

said after the. Dozens

20:02

and dozens of at night months and so on.

20:05

He. Is he's not leading the race

20:07

and in the Republican party. Is

20:10

he's He's crushed it in a in a

20:12

way as if as if he were a.

20:15

I'm. An incumbent sitting in

20:17

the in the Oval office. Me: I

20:19

mean it's worth going back. To

20:21

what Republicans were saying just after

20:24

the insurrection. There.

20:26

Was this fleeting moment where it seemed as

20:28

though. Republicans. En

20:31

masse, we're going to do what they were afraid to

20:33

do before. Which. Is all come together and

20:35

say we have to move on John that lasted less

20:37

than a night. I. Know what a

20:39

night of and what I mean. I have

20:42

a Mitch Mcconnell doubt they're They're all

20:44

out round one after another. Oh my it

20:46

was. I was a it was. It's like

20:48

that it was happening. and then. You.

20:52

Know it's some. It.

20:54

Was the end of the movie. And.

20:59

All. The how to do was just get in their car

21:01

and drive away and were saying drive drive drive you can

21:03

do it You can do as you can do it and

21:05

he just all went back in the second house and will

21:07

happen. Why? Because

21:10

their voters are telling them. They're.

21:12

Polls are telling them. Their. Constituencies are

21:14

telling them what to do. Know. That's

21:17

certainly a big part of. It's. Also

21:19

one thing that people have said.

21:22

Yes, People are politically very afraid.

21:25

Of. Turning. On the base or

21:27

get a drawing the evil Eye from Donald Trump. But

21:30

there are also people that said, you know what. I'm

21:34

my voice isn't going to change anything. And

21:37

if I get out there. And say that

21:39

Donald Trump is unsaid. of. I tell the Truth about

21:41

Donald Trump. They're. Gonna das my

21:43

family. They're. Gonna, they're gonna come to

21:45

my house. Political violence has already warping our

21:47

politics. it we we've seen as overby and

21:50

republicans tell us that they are worried about

21:52

what the space would do that Mitt Romney

21:54

as security. Not only that, fleeing their jobs

21:56

is not about know if I used to

21:58

were to lose my job as the middling.

22:01

Representative I go home and I've

22:03

got some dull job doing whatever.

22:08

Know Yes, I do think that that. The.

22:10

Worry that people will come after

22:12

them is is is real and

22:14

then beyond that. It.

22:17

Is a little bit a lack of. Political.

22:20

Imagination. right? Nice

22:22

if this is what the polls say. Therefore,

22:25

I can change it right? But a

22:27

real in a real leaders. Understand.

22:29

That their job at times is to

22:32

reflect back. What? Their supporters

22:34

are telling them, but at times it has

22:36

to have built enough of a relationship with

22:38

that group of people. To. Change their

22:40

minds or to push them rights. But none

22:42

of these people had the imagination. Or

22:45

to believe it was possible or that they could

22:47

be. Successful. In making that

22:49

happen and you know what they might be

22:51

right because all a bunch of that we

22:53

nice sell enough I don't know. Well you

22:55

said his interview with with. A. Member

22:57

of that tribe you us view with

22:59

Chris Christie yeah was kind of hilarious.

23:01

a new and look this is a

23:04

guy. Was totally inside with Trump. And

23:07

wanted to be even more inside as he could have

23:09

gotten there. And then he turned

23:11

to his suddenly had a set of conscience. So

23:14

as a pragmatic to. A mac

23:16

them at using this is will get out of

23:18

answering what you're saying else. So as I make

23:20

this decision. I made

23:23

the side. Com. Election

23:25

Day in November. That. It's

23:27

more important for me to make a statement

23:29

about how broken the two party system is.

23:32

And I have bad. These two candidates are.

23:35

By. Voting. For. A

23:38

Joe Manchin for instance. Are

23:40

because. It won't matter in

23:42

my state anyway, for the practical reasons, as

23:44

talk about. Arm is not an

23:46

assault popular vote system. It's an electoral system

23:48

right? Yeah, Why not or not? I? obviously

23:51

your vote In New Jersey you know it's

23:53

a it's a moral victory but but I

23:55

your vote matters insofar as that this this

23:57

moment requires me to do something I don't.

24:00

Particularly taste for but as necessary to say the

24:02

country and I'm I tell you that I will.

24:04

I'll just tell you I'm not there yet. Yeah,

24:07

I mean it's the only thing that I have

24:09

decided firmly. Is. I will not

24:11

vote for Trump under any circumstances. How

24:13

do you analyze a political creature like

24:16

Chris Christie? to get out

24:18

know what he him credit. Absolutely yeah. Give

24:20

them credit, I do given credit. And

24:23

like, I have serious disagreements with Chris Christie and

24:25

I have and I pushed him on a lotta

24:27

stuff. I don't think we should just say oh,

24:29

because you abandoned Trump Therefore, we forget what you

24:31

did before. Same thing goes for Liz Cheney. the

24:33

when people show political courage in the direction we

24:36

have been urging them. To. Show it.

24:38

Ah we've course ought to get a fair to

24:40

give them credit he in his in his speech

24:42

that he gave when he dropped out of the

24:45

race I thought he was more. Open

24:47

and vulnerable. about

24:50

his feelings of having gone along with Donald Trump.

24:52

than was even in the conversation I got to

24:54

have for them to the way talked about. It

24:57

sticks with you in a these decisions they don't

24:59

go at a foleo right? Very clear he carried

25:01

out for a long time. That.

25:03

He had that he made the wrong decision. But.

25:06

You know, then he's on me depressed saying that.

25:09

That. There right now He couldn't see himself voting.

25:12

For. Joe biden in and I say will hold on a

25:14

second. You. Just won't do this

25:16

whole exercise where you clearly understands or maybe give

25:18

what it as, read it. May.

25:20

Be so you get when do this whole

25:23

existence. Where. You barnstormed across New Hampshire

25:25

in the country talking about the threat Donald

25:27

Trump poses in Europe's It is clear by

25:29

your behavior that you believe and are more

25:31

where you believe Donald Trump is a great

25:33

threat and are far more worried about Donald

25:35

Trump than you are about Joe Biden. And

25:37

yet you can't bring yourself now to say

25:39

that you would vote for job I know

25:41

renown Trump because of your legitimate criticisms. But

25:43

this is gonna be the choice. And.

25:46

I. Do hope. That.

25:49

If that is the choice he will say that he would

25:51

vote for Joe Biden even though right now he says he

25:53

he he couldn't. I can't tell from

25:55

this. Needs you guys all the time. What

25:59

You're going it. Heard. The

26:01

act after the return the microphones off

26:03

new leave the room and other with

26:05

how worried are you about november. And.

26:08

Where do you think this is headed? I

26:10

look I would say off my the same thing I'll say I

26:12

might I have no idea. The goal right

26:15

the job of democrats over the

26:17

next year. Is to make

26:19

Donald Trump's liabilities insurmountable and Joe

26:21

Biden liabilities surmountable. These are the

26:23

candidates that faced off for years

26:25

ago and it was extremely close.

26:27

They both go into twenty twenty

26:29

Fourth with more liabilities than they

26:31

had and Twenty twenty so so

26:34

both. Now will it be close?

26:36

I don't know. Let's assume it

26:38

is. Because. If it's not, Than.

26:40

Than Than doesn't really matter that much what

26:42

we do, but let's assume it's gonna be

26:45

very close. What can we do to help

26:47

Joe Biden overcome his liabilities and make sure

26:49

that that Donald Trump's liabilities are sailing in

26:51

their minds? That one of the challenges is

26:53

that. The Criticism: The Joe

26:55

Biden. Is kind of older

26:58

and ineffective, right? They're confronted with that

27:00

in the present. Donald Trump's

27:02

threat is Prospectus Rights. It is what

27:04

he will do to democracy. It is

27:06

what is what he will do to

27:08

Nato right? And so how do we

27:10

make that feel real For people That

27:12

we remind people of just how chaotic

27:14

and dangerous Donald Trump when he was

27:16

President and makes really understand how much

27:18

worse it would be in a second

27:20

serve? That is the challenge were out.

27:22

How does that play out? I wish

27:24

I felt better about it. I

27:27

wish I felt better about it. but anyone who tells you they

27:29

know one where the other, I think it's full of it. And.

27:31

And what's your role in It was

27:33

positive. America's role. I

27:36

think our job. Is.

27:39

One. To.

27:42

Talk. About what is happening in a way

27:44

that is honest. And direct.

27:48

Ah, and practical. And.

27:50

To me with that that. That.

27:53

Looks like. Is not

27:55

avoiding are being free Does. This.

27:58

Very conversation. While.

28:00

The same time reminding people. The.

28:02

Politics isn't really about how we

28:04

feel. It's not about

28:07

pulling, it's really not even about Joe

28:09

Biden Down from. It's. About

28:11

what we have agency to do in this process

28:13

and what we don't. And

28:15

so that leads to the second part of what we have to do.

28:18

Which. Is activate a ton of people to

28:20

do as much as they can not just

28:22

on the presidential. But. In

28:24

the senate races, in the house races there

28:26

are abortion ballot initiatives in places like Florida

28:28

or their a ton of very important Attorney

28:31

general's races and other races that will determine

28:33

who is in charge of our democracy, who's

28:35

in charge or electoral system. You have a

28:37

sector is a candidate who just send a

28:40

bunch of us gay books on fire. I

28:42

like to pull her aside and say hey, Can.

28:45

Just tell me other examples where the person. Selling.

28:47

Books On Fire The Hero. Just tell me.

28:50

One example, When is a person said in

28:52

the Books On Fire the hero in the

28:54

story is this the first time But that's

28:56

our job and. One.

28:58

Thing that I take away from twenty sixteen. And.

29:01

I'm trying to remind myself all the time now.

29:04

Is. Made your says you're

29:06

here in this. If you're listening

29:08

to Ponce America, if you're reading the news daily.

29:11

You are. Ahead of a

29:14

game you're paying attention. You understand the stakes

29:16

in this election. And. Therefore, how

29:18

you feel and doesn't really matter that much

29:20

or at least it shouldn't. Your

29:22

job is to know despite how you

29:24

feel day to day how worried you

29:26

are household for you are. Put that

29:29

aside, your job is to remind people

29:31

who aren't paying close attention to may

29:33

be angry, frustrated that complacent what have

29:35

you. About. What they can do

29:37

right your feelings. Put them aside, how

29:39

can you help somebody who may have

29:41

similar feelings or who may not be

29:43

paying attention All to make sure they

29:45

understand their power because you already understand

29:47

yours and to remind people that are

29:50

concerns and anxieties that we feel and

29:52

of run up to November will be

29:54

nothing compared to how we feel the

29:56

day after the election is over. Don't

29:59

think so much. Thank you for having me. John

30:05

Love it is one of the host

30:07

a pod Save America which they describe

30:09

as a political five guess for people

30:11

who aren't ready to give up or

30:13

go insane.