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1:09

Hello, and welcome to the Price of or the show

1:11

that looks at the money behind the beautiful

1:13

game with me, Kevin Day and Newport

1:15

University's Kieran McGuire. Good

1:18

morning, Kieran. Wednesday, it's

1:20

first name about football for

1:22

two and a half weeks, mone for twelve

1:24

years about the World Cup being in the winter.

1:27

And now I'm moaning that it's not on it. It's

1:29

just proven to be a real

1:31

football fan. But I understand,

1:33

Kieran, that you were you were up west

1:36

last night. I'm on a little cultural football

1:38

out to thing. I prefer

1:40

to think of it as as research into

1:44

something broadly for all

1:47

business related ish.

1:49

So -- Absolutely. -- so you can

1:51

so it's so it's it's tax it's tax deductible

1:54

cases. I'm I'm I'm consulting. I'm consulting

1:56

my advisors just to just to confirm

1:58

that may or may not be the consensus.

1:59

Absolutely. Yes.

2:02

I went up with the went after the

2:04

baroness to see waggothor

2:07

Christy the play in in

2:09

London in swanky Southend.

2:12

And and it was and fantastic, fantastic

2:16

play. Very, very good, muting in places,

2:18

series in places as well. And it wages it

2:21

was adhered to the

2:23

the actual hearing itself. And

2:26

then then we came out about,

2:29

you know, about quarter ten. And it

2:31

would appear that every single

2:33

person of heritage

2:36

who is in London was

2:38

in Square, letting off fireworks,

2:40

and and a good time was being had by

2:42

all to put it quite mildly. So, yeah,

2:44

it there's a little bit of world cup to to just

2:46

top it up and fantastic experience.

2:50

Well well well, what experience

2:52

that Spain Morocco game was as well as an

2:54

incredible fantastic support

2:56

from the Rocco fans in the

2:58

stadium. And

3:00

and compelling to

3:03

see Spain crumble under the pressure of the penalties

3:05

the way Japan did the day before. Yeah. I'm

3:07

going to see Orlando next

3:09

week at the weekend, but I

3:12

imagine when I try and claim money

3:14

back for those tickets, little bobby numbers,

3:17

the account that will look at me like it normally does.

3:20

And so was any of that research? You

3:23

you did say you were going out with

3:25

an old girlfriend for your Christmas journey.

3:27

I'm not sure that it's gonna say all

3:29

of VAT people would be that happy

3:31

to give you a little bit of that back. This is

3:33

what he always does. He is was it research?

3:35

That that haircut was a research haircut. Was it?

3:37

Yeah. Just I had my haircut. before

3:40

we get into this week's new store, it's just a reminder

3:42

that the first price of football retrofit shirt

3:44

is now available to pre order

3:46

and I'm delight to say that many of you have done

3:48

that already. So thank you very much. We

3:51

will try and get those out to you quicker

3:53

than we answer your questions on the pod.

3:57

The shirts are available in adult and kid

3:59

sizes and

3:59

dark player if you request. And

4:02

all the profits we make will be going to good

4:04

causes. So that's nice

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as well as this time of year. So

4:08

you can order those by going to price of football dot

4:10

com or our social media wages

4:12

to look at our What diet

4:14

continues to call our in store shop,

4:17

but I believe it's technically a

4:19

a page on the website. We've

4:22

got a lot of new stories, Kieran, which

4:24

is why we are doing our

4:26

interview as a separate entity

4:28

again this week, which is a fantastic interview

4:30

we have. with Mark

4:32

White, the owner,

4:35

chairman manager, laundry

4:38

man, coach driver of Dawke

4:40

Wondras, to Kieran met yesterday.

4:43

Trust me, it's worth a separate

4:45

pod. I'm I'm fortunately

4:47

Kieran, our first two stories. are

4:49

from the West Midlands and neither of

4:51

them are good.

4:56

Yes.

4:56

So if

4:58

we kick off with Coventry

5:01

City -- Oh, no. -- just

5:03

remember the remember the old joke here, why why

5:05

the long pause? I was I was tempted

5:07

to do that then because I thought you'd left me.

5:09

You just you were taking a big dig.

5:11

You're taking a big dig golden here liquid

5:14

quinoa, So what do you do? That where's

5:16

this one that this one does need a

5:18

sharp intake of breath? Because

5:20

it it it yeah. Features sort

5:23

of what what

5:25

you might call AAA dynamic

5:28

Roman's duo in the internationally. and

5:32

Lauren's per se are

5:35

tentatively involved here

5:38

in terms of these these next couple of stories.

5:41

So Coventry City, they

5:44

they have been required by

5:46

a new owner called Doug King,

5:49

who's who's bought the club from CSO. subject

5:52

to EFL approval. Now that approval

5:54

has not yet been

5:57

signed off. that's not a good thing or a bad

5:59

thing. EFL are taking a very, very

6:01

thorough approach. You know,

6:03

they're they're doing in my view the the right

6:05

thing. Although, I

6:07

think it's it's testament to, you

6:09

know, if if football was in a much

6:11

better place, we we they wouldn't need to do it,

6:13

but we we would have more confidence in

6:15

Omer's. But one of the things that that we've certainly

6:17

discovered over the the three plus years of this

6:19

show is that that we have no

6:21

faith in in a lot of people

6:24

who who come into the game.

6:26

But, yeah, Ducking looks looks all above

6:28

board. So, yeah, we're hoping that that's going

6:30

to to move forward. So and the old owners

6:33

CC they

6:35

they they lost ten thousand pounds a

6:37

day for a decade in

6:39

in terms of their their relationship

6:41

with C downtory City and and trying

6:43

to work out their motives

6:46

as always being a bit of a head scratcher.

6:49

So, you know, people will be aware

6:51

that the CBS

6:54

arena of the the companies

6:56

which owned the the stadium. went

6:58

into administration. And

7:00

it looked as if Doug King

7:02

was going to

7:05

buy the stadium. And, you know,

7:07

we like that. Yeah. We like the same person

7:10

owning the football stadium and the football

7:12

club. And

7:14

then At at the last

7:16

minute. Yeah. It's it's all a it's

7:18

all a a reverse wacky races

7:20

here. Your ammonia wacky races dictatedly,

7:23

would always be leading about

7:25

the year, about fifty yards to go, and then

7:27

would be overtaken. Well,

7:29

the reverse has happened here. Doug King was

7:31

leading, and then all of a sudden, the digesterly

7:34

that is Mike Ashley takes

7:36

over and and nicks the stadium

7:38

from the administrator, presumably by

7:40

offering a slightly higher fee. And

7:42

what he's now done is that he's given

7:45

an eviction notice to

7:47

the football club via Fraser's

7:49

Fraser's is, you know, he's he's to

7:51

be the company through which he runs many of his

7:53

retail operations. And everybody's going,

7:56

why? What? Yeah. So so Mike

7:58

actually paid I think around about seventeen

8:00

million pounds the CVS arena.

8:03

So so why has this eviction notice

8:06

been given? See,

8:08

Sue, who were in negotiations

8:10

in in respect of the

8:13

the old lease. And and they had a deal which

8:15

was which lasted

8:17

a few years. I think there's

8:19

been some

8:21

people trying to manifest

8:24

an improvement on their personal

8:26

benefits from all of this. in terms

8:28

of either the length of the lease

8:30

or the rental amount. And

8:32

Mike Ashley got his

8:34

fingers burnt. in relation to

8:36

Derby County. Mike actually was really keen

8:38

to to buy Derby County football

8:40

club. But Mel Morris

8:43

owned the ground. Now, you

8:45

know, we don't know exactly what

8:47

went on. There

8:49

was certainly a lot of stories doing

8:52

the rounds that that Mel Morris did not

8:54

want Mike Ashley to buy

8:56

Derby County football club. And

8:58

because Mel Morris owned the stadium, that

9:00

gave him a lot of negotiation

9:02

power. It's, you know, effectively

9:04

had had the administrators on

9:06

strings to to an extent. So

9:08

Mike Ashley, having had his fingers burnt

9:10

in relations to to Darby has

9:12

thought, well, the next opportunity that

9:14

comes along where I can do something

9:16

similar, I'm going to take that. perfectly

9:19

legal, has to be said. But,

9:22

you know, where does this leave

9:25

Garvey. So, when does this leave Coventry City?

9:27

we we don't know. Yeah. They've been

9:29

given a notice of

9:31

eviction. Is this

9:34

a negotiating creation employ on behalf of

9:36

actually, stroke phrases to try to

9:38

get a better rental deal. Is

9:41

it that he's trying

9:43

to persuade,

9:46

Doug King, to not to not

9:48

go ahead with the deal and effectively, Mike

9:50

Ashley then comes in and buys the

9:52

football cup. Again, we don't know.

9:54

Many many conspiracy theories

9:56

are doing the rounds. But

9:58

I think for for Coventry City fans

10:00

who yeah, they they

10:02

must have given up buying lottery tickets a

10:04

long time ago. You know, the amount of bad

10:06

news that that club has had. Yeah. They

10:08

ended up appearing in the time in Northampton.

10:10

there's been the disputes with which

10:13

ended up in them going to Birmingham to play

10:15

their matches. Now

10:17

they they've got they got their they they

10:19

got their club back. They got a new owner

10:21

who is appears to, you know, check

10:23

a lot more boxes than the sees whoever did.

10:25

Although, when you start

10:27

to sort of delve into things

10:29

and, you know, buy a pure

10:31

coincidence, you know, one of Doug's

10:33

Kings companies appears

10:36

to use the same offices as

10:38

CSO. So it all just gets a, you know, a very

10:41

convoluted. So

10:43

so where they're going to play going

10:45

forwards? We don't

10:47

know. Could it be that

10:49

there'll simply be a new rental agreement,

10:51

which is more beneficial of wages. There

10:53

has been talk about commentary ending up going

10:55

to to to to to to to to to to to

10:58

to to play there. And and it's

11:00

it's so harsh on a club that remember

11:02

at the start of the season, they couldn't play

11:04

any home matches because the rugby

11:06

had taken place. I think it was for the Commonwealth

11:08

and left the pitch in such a mess. that

11:10

it was it was unplayable. And they're

11:13

only they're only two points off the playoffs with

11:15

two games in hand because they're definitely

11:17

now digging and play games themselves. So

11:19

all all of the positive things which are happening off on

11:21

the pitch are being negated

11:24

by yet another

11:26

messy off field issue.

11:29

Well, it makes the on picture change. It's even

11:31

more remarkable. Does it a a couple of

11:33

things, Kieran. I presume that

11:36

the administrator had

11:38

no choice in this issue where if if Mike Ashley

11:40

came in with a higher bid than nobody else,

11:43

if it's not within their job description

11:45

to say, well, you're not gonna make of

11:47

the home design. Are you are

11:49

you packing to leave to pick it up?

11:51

It's the best sound of it. Probably the best sound

11:53

of it. done. Wages was great? That

11:56

was that was the baroness coming to get a

11:58

a letter opener from

12:00

from my drawer. And

12:02

Finley decided to put in a few sound effects

12:04

of his own. And and this

12:06

is why this is why I'm still amazed that

12:08

we've never been better nominated. It's

12:10

this level of professionalism that we put through

12:12

the show. if there is some

12:13

kind of bad denomination for the best

12:15

sound effect or -- Okay. -- maybe we

12:17

should turn that into this. Maybe the poll should just be

12:20

forget the football silence. Just get the

12:22

voice It's something now.

12:24

I I worry about the spread reasons

12:26

that Daroness has gone for a letter of an

12:28

issue. It's sharpening it as to speak.

12:30

Maybe finnish upset because he's

12:32

he's having a haircut today.

12:34

Anyway, well, why are you getting finnish haircut on

12:36

the coldest of pneumonia? And back

12:38

to the the question kit for

12:40

those in listeners. Those listeners, we

12:42

still have left.

12:42

And the the administrators have

12:45

no choice today. The administrators have

12:47

to accept the higher bid presumably. And it's

12:50

not, as I say, within the administrative, it's job

12:52

description to say to Mike, actually, you're not

12:54

gonna do any anything rash here and get

12:56

rid of commentary. I mean, so let's And also

13:00

yeah. It's just so odd. I mean, Mike

13:02

Ashley is a very clever businessman. We know

13:04

that. And you kind of feel that

13:06

this must be some kind of negotiating tactic

13:08

towards getting a higher rent or maybe

13:10

towards actually

13:11

acquiring the club as well. But it

13:13

just seems odd that he's straight for

13:16

the

13:16

eviction notice rather than let's

13:18

negotiate a

13:20

higher rent or a a different deal that

13:23

that's that's the bit that worries me. So he's

13:25

just gone, no. I won't go out. And

13:27

it makes you wonder how without

13:29

the football club there. he's

13:31

gonna replace that how how is he gonna

13:33

get regular rental income without the

13:35

football club? Yeah.

13:36

Yeah. Well, yeah, first of all, in respect of

13:38

your initial point, the the administrators

13:42

obligation is to maximize

13:45

the asset sale price

13:47

proceeds so that there is no moral or

13:49

ethical element to

13:51

the disposal. They've they've got a higher price. They

13:53

sell at the higher price. End end of story, be

13:55

it provided provided the

13:57

owner can can provide proof of funds, which, of

13:59

course, in case of Mike, Ashley, you can.

14:02

Then then then there's no issue

14:04

there. moving

14:06

on to, you

14:08

know, the Southend it's

14:11

it's just messy. You know,

14:13

trying to trying to work out

14:15

my cash please mindset.

14:17

I I think this is possibly the

14:19

most my casualty thing I've ever seen

14:22

in terms of just

14:24

say, I'm I'm not gonna go through a number of hoops,

14:26

take it or leave it, you know,

14:28

or or you're out. I I think he I think he's

14:30

been reading a Christmas Carol, and he's

14:33

thought there's that there's a position for me

14:35

in in in that in that book, which I

14:37

really haven't haven't maxed

14:39

out on. And and I'm gonna take this opportunity

14:41

to do so for for Christmas

14:43

twenty twenty two? You you think he hasn't

14:45

got to the end yet? That that what it is.

14:47

He's misunderstood the point of the book. That

14:49

it's not a manual. And if

14:51

you wanna try and go in North

14:54

Carolina from from commentary and

14:56

assuming that it

14:57

goes straight through international,

15:00

then the next stop is

15:02

Birmingham and there's

15:05

bad news for Bermingham city fans, it looks

15:07

like as well. Yes.

15:08

Birmingham city

15:12

for the last five months have

15:14

been in talk Birmingham

15:17

Sports Holdings, who are the the Hong Kong

15:19

company, which which aren't Birmingham City football

15:21

club, have been in discussions with

15:23

a company called Mexico Capital,

15:27

which is partly owned by Maxi

15:29

Lopez, the former Barcelona

15:31

and Argentina. Stryker. And

15:33

a guy, I think it's Paul

15:35

Paul Richardson is is the other guy. So

15:38

they they've been they've been having talk for

15:40

the last five months with regards to to

15:42

buying the club and going through

15:44

a period of due diligence.

15:46

And some people have said, and I

15:48

I cannot confirm or deny this. Some people have

15:50

said that they've actually been funding for the club

15:52

because they were that they were that positive. And

15:54

then they said, well, yeah, we've

15:56

got we've we've got a deadline of

15:58

the thirtieth of November in

16:01

terms of when we we want the

16:03

deal to have gone through, thirtieth of

16:05

November comes nothing

16:07

happens. A couple of days later,

16:09

they say, yeah, we pull it up. We're we're we're we're

16:11

offski. And you

16:14

know, were they yeah,

16:17

five five months is a long time to be

16:19

in negotiations to to fall

16:21

through. And I think there was a

16:23

degree of skepticism. for for

16:25

people who who who really want the deep

16:27

dive into

16:29

this story. There there is a Birmingham

16:31

fan called Daniel, he he runs

16:33

a website called,

16:36

things called Elmajir, which is

16:38

absolutely fantastic. He he is obsessive

16:41

about Birmingham City's owners and

16:44

and and there is a there's a full Hollywood

16:46

blockbuster movie around in

16:48

relation to this. Now

16:51

Birmingham remember a couple of years

16:53

ago they ended up with a points deduction

16:55

due to mucking

16:57

around with FFP rules I

17:00

believe there's an EFL

17:02

investigation into one of their

17:04

owners, whose name appears to

17:06

be Wang Yang Qui.

17:08

who is who is a

17:10

Chinese investor about certain issues to do with

17:12

his background and and I believe the only reason why

17:14

we found out about that because it was mentioned

17:17

in parliament. It

17:19

could be that,

17:21

yeah, Mexico capital have have

17:23

pulled out because sometimes

17:25

you don't make as much progress as

17:27

you would like. And also, I

17:30

suspect that the current owners

17:32

are looking for some form of

17:34

potential payouts for two of the reasons.

17:36

First of all, Yeah. We we said

17:38

that Coventry, they're not far off a play

17:40

off place and potential promotion to the Premier

17:43

League. Yeah. Birmingham aren't that far off either. I

17:45

know they're in the bottom half of the table, but it's

17:47

it's very, very constant team at the

17:49

championship table. The

17:51

the other potential

17:54

issue is Yep. We've we've been watching the World Cup. We've

17:56

been cheering along. And everybody

17:58

goes, blimey O'Reilly. That that too burning. I

17:59

mean, it's a bit tasty, isn't it? So

18:03

so if people may recall, he he

18:05

was that good Birmingham

18:07

that when they sold him at the age of seventeen,

18:09

they retired his shirt. They could say,

18:11

we're never gonna have a player that good again at the

18:14

club. So so he's at Dortland. Yep.

18:16

One would have to assume

18:18

that they're not fools and

18:21

they've got a a decent

18:23

sell on clause in respect of his,

18:25

in fact, of his

18:28

contract. So there's talk about

18:30

Dortman saying, well, at the start of the

18:32

tournament, he was worth a hundred and thirty million

18:34

pounds in their eyes. And

18:36

I think it's fair to say that his values only headed in

18:38

one direction since then, and that that's

18:41

up. If if Birmingham, let's say

18:43

they've got a fifteen percent sell on

18:45

clause there, if Dortman, they're

18:47

going to make, you know, a hundred million pounds a hundred and twenty

18:49

million pounds worth of profit. Bermingham

18:51

are looking, you know, fifteen million pounds

18:53

twenty million pounds of that

18:56

continent. Now it could be that Birmingham

18:58

Sports Holdings say, well, yeah, Jude

19:00

Birmingham sold as a

19:02

supplier under our ownership, and we therefore want

19:04

to to trouser any sell on

19:07

clause. It could be that

19:09

new owners well, you know, it's it's uncertainty. There's no

19:11

guarantee. We we want to take on some

19:13

of that. So so I I

19:15

suspect it's all to do

19:17

with trying

19:19

to get one over the other

19:21

in respect of

19:23

these deals and then they've

19:25

collapsed, which means of course, and

19:28

that the the only person

19:30

whose name is possibly in the

19:32

hat is is that of Lawrence

19:35

Cassini. And I

19:37

think it's fair to say that we have our

19:39

reservations about his

19:41

ability to, a, come

19:43

up with the cash to acquire

19:45

a club and be certainly to sustain

19:47

it. You know, Birmingham had lost a

19:51

fortune over the course of the last

19:53

few years. I think I worked at somewhere like

19:55

one hundred and forty five million over the course of

19:57

the last decade. So, you

19:59

know, it's it's huge sums of money

20:02

involved. They've they're

20:04

a club that have not had luck with

20:07

owners going back

20:09

to to Carson Young and

20:11

beyond. So it's been

20:13

it's been a litany of questionable

20:15

motives of owners. And

20:18

perhaps there's a case for saying that an independent

20:20

regulator of football might be able to

20:22

address some of these issues. She's

20:24

back. She's been away for two year

20:26

for two shows, but Tracy's back. And

20:30

I suspect Lawrence

20:32

Cassini couldn't afford a

20:34

copy of the Christmas Carol that alone use

20:36

it as a business manual. That's how that'd

20:38

be things are going for him. I love the fact

20:40

that Duke Belligan talked so proudly

20:42

and so fondly of his time at

20:45

Birmingham, which is as it should

20:47

be. Mhmm. Just some of you mentioned there, Kieran, about

20:49

the set on clause. it's

20:52

so have

20:54

negotiated, say, a fifteen percent

20:57

part of the Senate Senate close you

20:59

mentioned profit. Is so is that seven

21:01

clause based on the actual transfer fee

21:04

or the profit that Dortman

21:06

made on the plan? It

21:08

it's normally on the profit because

21:11

what what you effectively say is

21:13

that if the player progresses

21:16

at dormant, then

21:18

both Dortmann and, you know, Birmingham have already

21:20

generated a hundred percent of the original sale

21:22

fee. So for them to get another fifteen percent

21:24

of that does seem in Congress.

21:27

So so my understanding is that most transfer

21:30

deals are based on the

21:32

profit to the next club because

21:35

that means that both parties are

21:39

beneficiaries of the players development at

21:41

the new club. No. We

21:42

know Kiran, my knowledge

21:44

of geography outside London is quite

21:46

often the source of criticism in some

21:48

of our listeners outside London.

21:51

But I'm fairly sure that

21:53

this club I'm talking about is to the north

21:56

and to the east Birmingham. This

21:58

club whose supporters have had a

21:59

torrid time, but there's a takeover there that looks

22:02

like it might be happening. Yes.

22:04

So this is Skuntorp United,

22:07

as as you were correct, on on the

22:09

Lincoln Coast. I've

22:11

I've I've I've been to

22:14

Scumprop United on quite a few

22:16

occasions. I've I've seen I seen Bobby some more

22:18

get a red card there. as

22:21

well, which -- Yeah. -- which -- Yeah. --

22:23

that's an that's a half man half biscuit album

22:25

title that's ever there was one. So

22:28

the the stunt op

22:30

owner Peter

22:31

Swan, he who

22:33

owns the the

22:36

Blackpool nightclub. he who

22:39

wanted to convert the,

22:42

certainly, the car park or or some of the

22:44

property into residential. It

22:47

looks like he's finally sold out to

22:49

to two new owners called Simon Elliott

22:51

and Ian Chart who who are local.

22:54

I think one of them's involved in

22:56

the acting industry. I think

22:58

he's been successful in that.

23:02

But they're they're absolutely delighted. And

23:04

because this is now a

23:06

national league club as opposed

23:07

to an EFL club, they

23:10

the the owners and directors test

23:12

rules don't apply as such. As

23:14

always, there was

23:17

a kerfuffle you know, we we've seen two

23:19

deals that have not gone through. Well,

23:21

you know, this deal

23:23

almost collapsed itself and

23:25

that Peter Swan didn't pay the November wages

23:28

because he was saying, well, I'm trying to sell the club, I

23:30

thought the new owners would have come through by the

23:32

end of November. So therefore, I thought that they were

23:34

gonna pay the wages and the new owners haven't

23:36

taken over, but it looks like that

23:38

has now gone through.

23:40

But what concerns

23:43

me is what exactly have

23:45

the new owners bought? If they

23:47

bought Skunk or United football

23:49

club, but that's that's there's a

23:51

step forward have they also bought

23:53

the stadium? I'm not so

23:55

sure because in

23:57

twenty twenty one, you know,

23:59

Peter Swan has come in for a lot

24:01

of criticism. I think certainly the way he conducts

24:03

himself at times in

24:05

terms of his relationship with

24:08

fans. wouldn't necessarily

24:10

go down as a as

24:12

a template on how to get on well with

24:15

people. So he's he's he he tends

24:17

to fire fire

24:19

threatening letters from from lawyers first

24:21

and and has a chat Southend. He's

24:23

he's even done the same to me. So I'm

24:25

I'm I'm I've been on the receiving end of

24:27

some of that. So he

24:31

did put money into the club via his

24:33

his company called CoolSeal. And

24:37

he then wrote off most

24:39

of the loans. due

24:41

to calls. So that's the good thing.

24:43

The not so good thing. He said, well, I'm

24:45

I'm not quite writing them off because what

24:47

I'm going to do is that instead of paying me

24:49

back you own me, I'm going to take

24:51

the stadium. So -- Yep.

24:54

-- do the new owners have

24:57

have the stadium and Santa Barbara

24:59

United. That I'm not certain

25:02

about. And as we've just

25:04

been looking at in in

25:06

respect of country city and

25:08

Mike Ashley. And and and going

25:10

back to, you know, you've had your

25:12

experiences with with wrong notes.

25:14

Wasn't it? Didn't he? I didn't he? I didn't he No.

25:16

It's a really good. You know, we got

25:18

we've we've had issues at Brighton

25:20

when, you know, our our ground ended up

25:22

being sold when you don't have control

25:25

over things. Hang on a

25:27

second, Kiran. I just got I just got to say goodbye to Ali. Hi,

25:29

Ali.

25:29

Ali's off to lunch with Bobby

25:32

numbers. Oh, call the second time.

25:34

Yeah. Yeah. And I I thought,

25:36

Ali, when she said she was gonna see probably

25:38

numbers, it was about probably, you know,

25:40

next year's tax, but it turns out no.

25:42

It's just lunch. who's who's paying for that

25:44

and who gets the tax benefits. I don't know, but

25:47

I suspect the accountant the

25:49

I'm sorry to interrupt you there.

25:51

I I had so good questions. Absolutely.

25:54

You you got

25:56

your own sound effects there.

25:58

Yeah. No.

25:59

Let's

25:59

get some oil on that door.

26:02

Yeah. Come on. So so

26:04

so that that's that's where

26:06

we are at presently. Separation of

26:08

football club through football ground.

26:11

Yeah. Ninety percent ninety

26:13

nine percent of the time tends to up in end up

26:15

in in tears rather than

26:17

a smiley faces in my experience. So

26:19

so that's that's that's my we're

26:21

we're you know, I've got I've got two

26:23

and a half tiers in respect of the takeover.

26:25

Yeah. And and scum for

26:27

Pandora, yeah, both of whom acquired

26:29

ownership issues are now occupying

26:31

the two bottom wages.

26:33

internationally despite both being EFL

26:35

clubs last season and both being

26:37

the beneficiary of Parachute Paints.

26:40

I but it's it's not that long as you

26:42

told them we're a Premier League club. It was a great

26:44

scheme of things. I I

26:47

appreciate, Kieran, this is an impossible question

26:49

for you answer without knowing the

26:51

the actual numbers. But it

26:53

occurs to me that if if

26:55

Peter's one is loans scum

26:57

for United, that much money

26:59

that the stadium will

27:01

cover

27:01

the cost, he must have lent

27:03

them a lot of money. Yes.

27:05

Yeah. I mean, they they were owned.

27:07

They they were owned around about eleven

27:10

million pounds. So

27:14

he's he's he's he's he's put his money

27:16

where his mouth is. Every

27:18

year for the last decade, Scump

27:20

top United have paid out more money

27:22

in wages than they've generated in

27:25

income. how

27:27

well that money is being spent? because I always say to

27:29

people, you've got to look at these things from both

27:31

a quantitative and a qualitative basis.

27:35

Spending it and spending it well are are

27:37

are not the same. And, yeah, and that applies

27:39

for the scum talk United does as much as

27:41

it does to Manchester United. We'll be

27:43

talking about Manchester United later.

27:46

But, yeah, it it is indicative

27:49

of just just

27:51

throwing money at football players and

27:53

managers isn't a solution

27:55

to getting a a

27:57

football club up the table to

27:59

to wear its owners and fans

28:01

think it should be? You

28:03

mentioned the wages not being paid

28:05

in November here, and unfortunately, that's

28:07

become a bit of a theme

28:09

in the past few weeks because we have

28:11

the story of two clubs now

28:13

where that's happening. One what's

28:15

been happening on an ongoing basis and one, as far as

28:17

we know, where it's a new occurrence?

28:19

Yes. So we're going to

28:21

start off with back to the

28:24

championship. which, you know, we I think

28:26

we said on that show number one

28:28

or two, but the the EFL

28:30

championship is the clown

28:32

car. of European football at the

28:34

very least in terms of football finance.

28:37

And we're now going to take

28:39

a look at Reading. And Redding

28:42

paid eighty percent of the

28:44

wages to to staff last week.

28:46

Yeah. People yeah. I

28:48

I to my wage slip in in particular

28:51

detail, but III do check

28:53

my bank statement to check if it's come in and

28:55

you've got a rough idea of how

28:57

much going. So twenty

28:59

percent of the wages were

29:01

unpaid. Reading is

29:03

also currently experiencing

29:06

a transfer embargo due to

29:08

former misdemeanors. Remember, they did put

29:10

points deduction themselves in respect

29:12

of profitability and sustainability rules.

29:15

And what the owner,

29:17

Dai Yang from China

29:20

is trying to achieve

29:22

from this is is

29:24

uncertain. Yep. It's

29:26

it's the the usual

29:29

very corporate press

29:31

release talking about know, regular

29:34

funding mechanisms were unable to work

29:36

properly. And it

29:38

just yep. I

29:39

would say, you know

29:41

when the wages are gonna be paid. They're gonna

29:43

be paid at the end of the month. And

29:45

Reading and Losing money

29:47

absolutely is the owner putting money and always

29:49

Is is their funding coming from Nextel? So, yes,

29:52

there is. So I I

29:54

just don't understand why

29:56

something which is supposed to be professional

29:59

is such an amateur activity

30:01

in so many football clubs that

30:03

that it's happening, left right

30:06

and center. So,

30:08

you know, it has occurred on a couple of

30:10

times in respect to Reading before. It's

30:12

it's occurring too often in

30:14

EFL clubs and National League clubs. And,

30:17

yeah, III spoke

30:19

to somebody from

30:22

from an EFL club

30:24

only this morning prior to to recording the

30:27

show. And it

30:30

they they just they said to me, I

30:32

said, yeah. What what do you think about this? And he said,

30:34

well, it's like this. It's the coming storm.

30:36

And and that well, this

30:38

was this was from somebody who

30:40

who I respect an awful lot. And

30:43

that that did put a bit of a shiver

30:45

in downward spine because, you know,

30:47

we've we've been through COVID. We've

30:49

been through some

30:53

of the ramifications from what's

30:55

happened in Ukraine in terms of the impact

30:57

on global inflation and so on. Okay. We

30:59

we things are starting to progress. Yeah. Are we getting

31:01

out of this? And, yeah,

31:03

I'm I'm feeling

31:06

billing pretty

31:07

gloomy in in relation to

31:10

an awful lot of clubs at

31:12

present. Oh, well, Merry

31:14

Christmas,

31:14

everyone. Reading's

31:17

that that that argument from reading

31:19

that there are technical issues, banking

31:21

issues, etcetera, really annoys

31:23

me because I'm as you

31:25

know, I'm I'm I'm free lives. Mhmm. And which

31:28

means you can sometimes

31:31

go for six, eight, ten weeks without

31:33

getting paid. And and quite often,

31:35

you you will ask your agent to get in touch with somebody

31:37

who owes you money or you will do it yourself if you

31:39

have a personal relationship. And quite often,

31:41

they will say, we're really, really sorry

31:43

there was an issue with the pay run. There was an

31:46

issue with the bank. No one got paid and you

31:48

go, I I find that's unfortunate

31:50

that that you would sort that as quickly

31:52

as possible. but they well, managed to pay eighty

31:54

percent. Yep. So to me,

31:56

you are to pay you are to pay

31:58

nothing. Or if you're

31:59

if you're only paying

31:59

eighty percent, because you've only got eighty

32:02

percent to pay. Mhmm. That that rings

32:04

alarm bells for me because that that doesn't make any

32:06

sense. I'm I'm, of course, I'm not a payroll

32:08

manager and I'm sure we have many of those

32:10

listening to now ago, oh, no. That's

32:12

quite possible. But to me, that doesn't seem right

32:14

somehow.

32:15

Yes. Yeah. It and

32:18

it's it's not the first time. It it happened at

32:21

Reading a couple of years ago. I'm pretty certain as

32:23

well. Yeah. And so yeah.

32:25

It it's not good. So So Reading

32:27

Reading's in the championship, and

32:29

we're we're now back to

32:31

the National League. And

32:33

Yeah. This time. It's it's you know, we've always

32:36

said, appear on the price of foot

32:38

or, you know, once every three or four months.

32:40

It's, you know, it it's it's flicker coin. It

32:42

could be good news. It could be bad news. If

32:45

you start to appear on the price of football

32:47

-- Yep. -- two or three times a

32:49

month, then it tends to be bad

32:51

news. And and unfortunately, go

32:53

with back to our friends at end. So

32:55

as far as November

32:57

payroll was concerned, and and

32:59

this I find just

33:02

pretty disgusted. The players were paid

33:04

one day late, and at the time of

33:06

reporting, and I think this may have been addressed by

33:08

now because we're recording this on the seventh.

33:11

nonplaying staff had not been paid.

33:13

So, yeah, when when the stories broke. So,

33:15

you know, this this does

33:17

seem ridiculous. Now it could

33:19

be that you

33:21

know, players are in a position where that

33:23

they can walk away from the club. You

33:25

know, the club potentially could be in breach of

33:27

contract. We spoke

33:29

you know, only a few weeks ago about how how proud

33:31

we were to be football fans when you've

33:33

got organizations such as the

33:35

Shrimpest Trust. Now anybody that's been to

33:38

South And when I used to

33:40

live in Chelmsford, we we used to catch a

33:42

train to go to South End. Yep. South End

33:44

was our big day out. Yeah.

33:46

Mama Dad didn't have a car You

33:48

go you go to the beach, you go

33:50

to the that longest pier in in

33:52

the world. What was that? What happened I thought anyway?

33:54

It was a huge hit. But it's it's not

33:56

it's not a wealthy area in its own right.

33:59

So the fact that the shrimp and crust have

34:01

managed to to cobble together forty

34:03

grand. to help pay the wages. So I

34:05

was like, okay. This this is this is just fantastic.

34:07

You know, the the integrity of football fans

34:09

at times just make you

34:12

so proud. And I think they've they've been trying to

34:14

organize with with other fan groups to

34:16

raise further money on top

34:18

of this. And

34:21

this all comes down to the the owner Rob

34:24

Martin. Now the

34:26

parent company of South

34:28

End, which is a company called Southeast

34:30

leisure limited. That that had a

34:32

winding up order from from

34:34

company's house only a a few days

34:36

ago. Now that was that was

34:38

reversed, yeah, this morning. We

34:40

we can we're recording this on the seventh. So

34:43

what what wrong tends to do is

34:45

is brinkmanship. You know, he I wouldn't say he deliberately

34:48

doesn't submit accounts and confirmation

34:50

statements and

34:52

money due to HMRC, although there's been a winding up order from

34:54

HMRC, which is now being dealt

34:57

with. But he he

34:59

does like to to play the

35:02

game. And part of me thinks,

35:04

okay, if you want to play the

35:06

game in

35:08

relation to institutions. So, you know, companies

35:10

house fine, you know, nobody gives a hoot

35:12

apart from me. You know,

35:14

HMRC

35:18

you know, there there there are

35:20

worse tax

35:22

scams taking place than paying

35:25

your VAT a few months, like, yeah, you you you deserve

35:27

it, you know, a kick in the go aheads about it.

35:30

But but that's a priority. Go. When

35:32

it comes to staff, I I think that's

35:34

a red line, which which I

35:36

find pretty reprehensible. Because,

35:38

yeah, these are people who have

35:40

We've got standing orders and direct debits that are

35:42

going out to the landlord, to the mortgage company, to

35:46

your utility bills and so on.

35:50

And either they end up not getting paid. So so the bank

35:52

would charge you, yeah, twenty five pound a

35:54

pop for every for every direct debit, which

35:56

doesn't get

35:58

paid. or you end up having to back steel

36:00

or borrow to to cover the

36:02

bills on that date, which which I

36:04

just find depressing.

36:07

And again, I think South

36:09

End and its owner have reached

36:11

a point where

36:14

the sooner that they move on to separate

36:17

ventures, the better.

36:20

Yeah. I always

36:21

pay my VAT on

36:24

time. except there's a six weeks difference between what I think

36:26

is on time and what each other's team. I

36:28

think is on time. It it and

36:32

jumped as well here. And there's new pigs

36:34

for the Pure and McGuire historical jigsaw for our listeners to sleep in.

36:37

You you do

36:39

start to worry Yeah. But we because, essentially, you said, we're

36:41

talking about Southend and United

36:45

every week now. that

36:50

we there's a pattern emerging here

36:52

that we've seen with other clubs. You

36:54

know, we're in old and where

36:56

suddenly, you don't mention the club.

36:58

and then you mentioned the club twice in a Southend

37:00

then suddenly is every week, and it's the same issue.

37:03

And you just hope for the sake of it,

37:05

as you say, those Southend Southend

37:08

fans. that it gets resolved and you but

37:10

you can't see it being resolved without Martin leaving

37:12

the scene. And and the thing is, as we

37:14

said the last time we spoke about them,

37:17

the brilliant effort of the fans to raise forty thousand

37:19

pound to pay one month's wages. They

37:22

can't do that every month. It

37:24

it would have been difficult enough for them to do it for

37:26

one month. If you can't split that

37:28

that the fans to bail the club out every

37:30

month much as they would love to do so,

37:32

but if they shouldn't have to do so, and it

37:35

you know, it's incredible that

37:37

the the club is still allowed

37:39

to keep doing that. This

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40:00

orggive.

40:00

Oscar

40:07

Wilde wages it. period

40:10

to be sued by one

40:12

former manager. He's unfortunate.

40:14

But to be sued by five,

40:16

he begins to look like carelessness. That's

40:18

what's happening to one of our other often

40:21

mentioned clubs. Yes. So, yeah,

40:23

we're we're doing a

40:25

a full zigzag geographical

40:28

tour of of the UK today, and and we're now

40:30

at Watford. We're now at Victory Road.

40:33

So so this this

40:36

is a story that I picked up from an

40:38

organization called Law three

40:40

sixty. And and I googled this. I

40:42

couldn't find this anywhere

40:44

else. So I spoke to some

40:46

of of of the price of

40:48

football's lawyer friends who

40:50

got grasses. grasses. Yes. I

40:53

said, okay. Give yeah. Should we run this story on

40:56

our Law three sixty? Are they I say

40:58

they legit and said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They

41:00

they they are pretty good. Yeah. They

41:02

they double check their story. So so

41:04

this does appear to be an

41:06

issue. So I I have I have

41:08

done a little bit of of ferroting. And I

41:10

think more more three sixty got these cited wrong,

41:12

in that it's it's a former manager.

41:15

And I think four

41:18

or five of the manager's mockers,

41:20

I think, is the the technical phrase.

41:22

You you know, when a manager arrives

41:24

that they normally brings you

41:27

know, like a coach, a Golubin coach, you know -- Yeah.

41:29

-- a cheese taster or and and, yeah, whatever

41:31

whatever these people are. So on

41:34

on Mirage, But,

41:36

you know, and, yeah, it it will be great

41:38

to say, well, we should be able to identify who

41:41

the manager is. never thought, oh,

41:43

no, it can't be. We're talking about

41:46

Watford. Yeah. So, you know, net

41:48

narrowing down,

41:50

you know, net narrowing down who who

41:52

this could be is is not not that easy.

41:56

But but

41:56

my understanding is

41:59

that that the the former manager the

42:01

entourage are are suing for breach

42:04

of contract.

42:06

And under

42:09

I think most standard

42:12

football manager contracts, it

42:14

says if you

42:16

are sacked then we will pay you up until you

42:18

find another job.

42:20

Now can you see there's a bit of conflict of interest

42:24

here? Because the manager

42:26

doesn't necessarily have a huge

42:28

incentive to try to find himself another

42:30

job. He said, well, if I've got, you know, two, two and

42:32

a half years remaining on the contract, and I'm picking up a

42:34

decent wedge because, you know, this manager,

42:36

I suspect, would have been in charge

42:38

when they were in the Premier

42:40

League. Then then why don't

42:42

I why just go and sit sit on my ass all

42:44

day and, you know,

42:46

collect that paycheck. So, you

42:48

know, if what would feel that

42:50

this manager has has not been

42:53

trying to find another job and

42:55

and they can evidence that they might say, well,

42:57

we're not prepared to give you your payout.

42:59

And and now we've got some sort of, you

43:01

know, Mexican standoff where the manager is saying,

43:03

well, well, I've I've been trying. You know, III pride for the Barcelona and the

43:05

Manchester United job and I felt it enough. They

43:07

they didn't seem particularly interested in former

43:10

Wafford owners.

43:12

just sort of formal walk through managers. And

43:14

and that's where we are. So it's

43:16

it's not good yet. Nobody wants

43:18

to be dragged through the courts. And

43:21

We we only know that

43:23

there's gonna be one winner in all of

43:25

this, and it's not gonna be

43:27

wafford. And it's not going to be the

43:29

former manager. Yeah. Yeah. I

43:31

love that word, Marco. My

43:34

my dad referred to

43:36

me his his little

43:38

mucker, right, too. And, yeah, it's a

43:40

lovely lovely

43:42

word. our whistle stop tour of the country continues here. probably

43:44

the shortest leg from Rotford

43:47

down

43:47

to Arsenal. latest

43:50

results are out. And there's one particularly

43:52

interesting number in there, isn't

43:54

it? Yes.

43:57

Afterno, have have

43:59

been spending money on

44:02

players, which which

44:04

fans are always keen to see. But

44:08

it's not necessarily their

44:10

money that they've been spending

44:12

because what we've seen is

44:14

that what could have got I

44:17

asked all. I've gone down the let's let's do it

44:19

on credit route. So

44:22

they've ended

44:24

up owing one hundred

44:26

and eighty eight million

44:28

pounds in outstanding

44:32

installments in in respect of of

44:34

player transfers. And, you

44:36

know, after we used to be known

44:38

as as the Bank of England

44:40

club. So, yeah, I've

44:44

I've talk, well, you know, they'll they'll be fine for and and

44:46

Oscar will be fine for yeah. They are. They are

44:48

a run on as as a

44:50

pretty pretty well run

44:52

club. And until probably about two or

44:54

three years ago, they were the

44:56

most profitable club in

44:58

the history. of

45:00

the Premier League. But that is no longer

45:03

the case. You know, they they're they're

45:05

losing sort of on a day to day

45:07

basis, a million pounds a

45:10

week in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two. Clearly,

45:12

they've also not been in in the Premier

45:14

League for a while. But

45:16

I think the thing which

45:19

surprised me, most of all,

45:22

was in respect to wages.

45:24

And we yeah. We always talk about footballers

45:26

wages, and and they

45:28

seem to they seem to be gravity defying. You

45:30

know, no matter what's happening in the

45:32

external world, you know, it doesn't matter whether you got

45:34

COVID or

45:36

or this day and the other footballers wages still go

45:38

up and up and up and up and if we take a look at

45:40

twenty twenty one, that that was the case. Yeah.

45:42

We had COVID. And yet, football

45:44

as wages overall and the Premier League still still increased, but I think around that seven

45:46

percent in that season, which is which

45:49

is great news

45:51

for your football. But

45:54

Arcelor's wages are are coming

45:56

down. Yeah. We we know that, yeah, a

45:59

bam yang left, although you're doing

46:01

a bit of a payoff, I think they

46:03

got some other players off the payroll in the last few years, the likes of

46:05

Ocel and so on. And

46:09

Yep. I've I've always defended footballers wages. I

46:11

say say it's a talent industry. Yep. You

46:13

work in the in the world of entertainment. It's a

46:15

talent industry. And you know that of

46:18

the stars, get the big bucks. And, you know,

46:20

I've I've I've never walked out

46:22

of a cinema or or walked out

46:24

of a concert. I will I will not be

46:26

walking out.

46:28

of of the the O2 arena next Monday. Having watched the cures

46:30

thinking to myself, I'm I'm never gonna have watch

46:32

them again. Roberts, let's pay too much.

46:36

because they they get

46:38

they get what the market plays. And

46:40

the issue we now have with Arsenal

46:42

is that Arsenal's

46:44

wage bill is a hundred

46:46

and fifty million pounds less than that of

46:49

Manchester United. And

46:53

This isn't a criticism of your club and

46:55

my club, but I would have

46:57

always thought that Arsenal's wage

47:00

bill would have been closer

47:02

to that HS United than it is to the wage bill of Palace or

47:04

Brighton. But Arsenal's wage bill is now

47:06

closer to our wage bill than it

47:08

is of, yeah, one of the clubs

47:10

that you would usually

47:12

think is part of their peer group. And

47:14

I think that does indicate that

47:18

things aren't as as Rosie had asked all, you know,

47:20

that they they have had to to cut

47:22

back. You know, they're

47:24

still on good wages. You know,

47:26

they're still averaging more than a

47:28

hundred grand a week. But Manchester United

47:30

are averaging a hundred and seventy four grand a

47:32

week. That that means that

47:34

potentially when a player has got the choice of either of

47:36

those two clubs, money money comes

47:38

into it. Yeah. Historically,

47:40

there are quite a few teams referred to

47:42

themselves or referred to as the Bank of

47:44

England club. This

47:45

makes me think that back in the day the Bank of

47:47

England were quite flighty with their affectionate. We still

47:49

have three and four new

47:51

stories to go. the

47:54

first of them, just looking at our social media feed in

47:56

the last couple of days, I know it's

47:58

a great interest to many of

48:01

our listeners. And I think they probably would have hoped this would be

48:03

their third story because

48:06

for the National League supporters as

48:08

a whole, this is

48:09

a big big story about their new

48:11

streaming platform. Isn't it?

48:14

Yes. I think this will come on the

48:16

back of

48:18

yep. Reynolds and McElhinney and Rexam,

48:22

who created a

48:25

a much broader level of interest in in Rexam

48:27

than than the club had historically.

48:30

And they said, you know,

48:32

why why can't

48:34

people overseas watch reps and

48:36

play football. You know,

48:38

we've we've got now the on

48:40

the back of the the documentary series. We've we've got

48:42

a lot of interest. So the e

48:45

the the national league who

48:48

have have come in for

48:51

a fair amount of criticism. And

48:53

if people do listen to

48:55

the the interview with with Mark White that

48:57

we're doing as a separate podcast, I

48:59

think it's fair to say that he is he's not

49:01

their biggest fan, and I'm not their

49:03

biggest fan. And I'd also

49:06

recommend that if if you get

49:08

a chance get go to YouTube and and

49:10

watch Gates Money, the the

49:12

documentary film. Marks in it, I'm in

49:14

it, Ben Classbo's.

49:18

I have from from Dutch. He he's

49:20

in it as well. You know, there there's lots of

49:22

lots of people who who

49:25

do have an affection for the national league whose knowledge about

49:27

it is far greater than certainly than

49:29

than ours. And

49:32

it's it's a bit like fee for uncovered, but at national

49:34

league level. And it but it's just as important

49:37

as to expose an

49:40

organization, which which doesn't like doesn't

49:43

like like people lifting up

49:45

the carpet and and and trying to take a

49:47

look at system what's underneath. So

49:50

we we now have in

49:52

the national league a a

49:58

streaming system

49:59

which

49:59

which has perhaps

50:02

some benefits. It has some benefits in the

50:04

you you can now pay to stream But that

50:07

yeah. So therefore, it will increase

50:09

the size of the cake. And I always say that

50:11

when it comes to distribution, that

50:14

there's two

50:16

elements a, has the cake got bigger and

50:18

b, how are we going to cut the

50:20

cake? Now, yeah, in terms of the money

50:22

cake, I think it is going to increase

50:24

in size. if if

50:26

streaming does prove to be

50:28

successful. Although, you could argue

50:30

that if more people stream, does that mean

50:32

that fewer people are going to

50:34

attend matches? I'm I'm

50:36

I'm the the jury's out from

50:40

me. I I know Andy Hult has got very

50:42

strong views on this. But

50:44

I'm I'm probably a little bit more

50:46

sort of, you know, center ground in relation to

50:48

this because I always take the view on

50:50

a spec you will as well that if

50:53

if I can get to a match, I will

50:55

go because the live experience is exactly

50:57

the same as as Glastonbury. You know, given

50:59

a choice between watching it on

51:01

the in the comfort of my

51:03

lounge or being, you know,

51:06

going

51:06

to Glastonbury, wallowing through mud

51:08

and and coming back to you.

51:11

coming back

51:11

to your tent to find that a

51:13

hippie has used it as a toilet.

51:15

You know, I I still go for the

51:17

life experience because it's that life experiences,

51:19

which gives you the memories, and and gives you the the the

51:22

the the the once in a lifetime

51:24

moments. But

51:27

In terms of how it is

51:29

being split, this is how it

51:31

goes. The the national

51:34

league will keep fifteen

51:36

percent themselves. for

51:39

reinvestment in streaming

51:41

and marketing. And and

51:43

and that's that's fine. Okay. I don't I don't have

51:45

an issue with that. And

51:47

them then

51:48

sixty percent goes

51:50

to the the club

51:52

that the viewer supports and

51:55

twenty five percent is split between all seventy

51:57

two national league clubs.

52:00

And, yeah, the the

52:02

downside of this, and let let's look at this

52:04

through the through the eyes of Mark

52:06

White, is that if

52:08

the talking if

52:09

talking are playing Rexam

52:10

or Knott's County or, you know, one one of the

52:13

clubs, which which will bring up a

52:15

big fan base. If

52:18

if a Rexam fan decides

52:21

I'm going to stream

52:23

the match at taking

52:25

place at talking. So talking have gone through all of the, you

52:28

know, all all of the preparation as you do

52:30

when you're hosting hosting

52:32

other team. If

52:34

it's talking versus Rexam,

52:36

sixty percent of the money goes to

52:38

Rexam because the fan says, well, I'm a Rexam

52:42

fan. Twenty five percent is split between all

52:44

seventy two clubs, and talking get

52:46

precisely zero. Now

52:50

to me, that that doesn't look like a great deal.

52:52

And you you know,

52:54

I I would personally split yeah.

52:56

I would say that that sixty percent

53:00

If if if you split that evenly between the home and the away team,

53:02

if you put yourself down as a Rexam

53:04

fan, then fine. But to

53:06

to give for the hosting club,

53:09

no money, I think is

53:11

is harsh. And what it

53:13

will result in is the

53:15

gap between rich and poor.

53:17

becomes bigger and bigger. And

53:20

I I can assure you, you know, there will

53:22

be big clubs. And I think we know

53:24

who we're talking about here in the

53:26

Premier League, who are looking at

53:28

that model and saying, I want some of that. And they were saying, well, okay, it's it's

53:30

it's worked in the national league.

53:33

It's it's it's sort

53:35

of working in a similarly in in the

53:38

EFL in terms of streaming.

53:40

Therefore, we want something

53:42

similar in the Premier League. well, and and

53:44

streaming is gonna happen. Yeah. Look, you we're

53:46

we're not King Canute. We're we're not we're not

53:48

luddites in terms of the adoption

53:51

of technology. But having a

53:54

competitive national league individual

53:56

EFL divisions and Premier League.

53:58

And, yeah, the Premier League's not particularly

54:02

competitive because you know who the

54:04

four Champions League clubs are likely

54:06

to be. You know, Newcastle

54:08

are now a disrupter of

54:10

that. But

54:10

that cause

54:12

for concern. And I know I've mentioned it

54:14

once, but again, this is an area

54:16

where by having some

54:20

form of scrutiny or investment by

54:22

an independent regulator who

54:24

can look at it from

54:27

problem a much broader

54:28

holistic perspective

54:30

than necessarily what's best for

54:32

individual clubs because every club will

54:34

act in its own best interests

54:36

self interest is is I've got no issue with that whatsoever. But if if

54:39

we want to have football as part

54:41

of the fabric of society in the

54:43

way that we do today, we

54:45

may need somebody to say, we're gonna do what's best

54:48

football rather than what's best for Manchester

54:50

United or Rexham or Sunderland or whoever the

54:52

club happens to be. You can speak

54:53

for yourself when it comes to being a luddite

54:56

person. As far as I'm concerned, we've got

54:58

enough technology now.

55:00

Thank you. I'd like to see the

55:02

ticket I could put in my wallet. If you don't mind, the

55:04

fact I have to use two laptops

55:06

to do this podcast is still

55:08

something that Ali needs to can't be down about

55:10

on there. pretty much daily basis. The the thing that I mean,

55:12

using talking as an example that we've

55:14

reps and

55:16

hosting them. reps

55:18

and fans will turn up in their numbers. We know that. But

55:20

for every reps and fan who does

55:22

it, they're talking and losing out probably

55:25

ten, twenty pound on

55:28

on catering within the ground. So not

55:30

only are they not getting paid for ritz in

55:32

France to watch it, they're losing out on Southend

55:35

income as well. And now we've reached a situation

55:37

where so basically, there's three o'clock games on a Saturday can now

55:40

be streamed.

55:42

I think I think that

55:43

is the case although if

55:46

the match classic clashes with the match which

55:48

is being broadcast. The matches which are being

55:50

broadcast on BT Sport, I think still will only go out on BT

55:52

Sport. And that then that's right and proper.

55:54

If you're a broadcaster, you you pay for that

55:56

privilege and and you want to maximize. your

56:00

numbers as well. But yeah, I

56:02

think the three pm

56:04

games, I think it's going to be

56:08

introduced slowly. And certainly, it's something

56:10

which is being discussed

56:12

at EFL level as well, though it

56:16

might need FA approval because the

56:18

whole the whole rationale

56:20

behind the three PM blackout

56:23

is that we want to protect low league

56:26

football. And, yeah, if

56:28

it's if it's Manchester United playing

56:30

Manchester City at three PM on the Saturday and

56:32

you can stream it it

56:34

makes it that much more difficult to

56:36

persuade either yourself or

56:38

yourself and your kids to whoever you might be going to

56:40

a mess with. to, you know, it's

56:42

a it's a freezing cold

56:44

Saturday in in December.

56:46

You know, couple of kids, it's talking

56:49

today. playing South Southend you know, it's a big match, like, blah,

56:51

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What? Just you

56:54

noted? So

56:57

III think care has to be taken

56:59

in in how it's done.

57:01

Basically, I mean, this is I know we

57:03

mentioned that the whole lot he's been completely

57:05

vindicated because he predicted. I mean, it's one thing for Rexford to

57:07

say, well, we've got larger fans

57:09

abroad there enough. why

57:12

can't they watch the game let them stream it? because that's how streaming started,

57:14

and it still wasn't it. So it was

57:16

for overseas fans to be able to watch

57:18

the game. That's fair enough. Andy

57:21

Hall predicted that that would was the thinnest end

57:23

of the wedge. She predicted that once

57:25

that started, what happens

57:28

next then you go, well, how about the games

57:30

when there's no there's an international breaks, no privilege. So that didn't that

57:32

happen. And as we predicted, we're now looking

57:34

at the three o'clock pickups being

57:38

streamed. And the club's hosting the

57:40

game, get no money out of it. It makes no

57:42

sense. And you say the national being a

57:44

very reticent

57:46

to talk. And I know it's arrogant of us to say this. We're only a podcast.

57:48

But if anybody from the National League

57:50

is listening and wants to come on the chat, we're on

57:52

your side as much as we're on the fan side

57:55

as well. But we're not because we're only

57:57

getting the fan side of the art -- Yeah. -- which

57:59

is why neither of us think that the national leader

58:01

behaved particularly well

58:04

at this. but they're very open to be told by the national league that

58:06

they have. And, you know,

58:08

and we we're nice people. We it will

58:10

make you a technical wow, what wages you a virtual

58:12

cup of tea. because I can't do

58:14

this at bong to you.

58:16

Christian and Christian and Anello, Kieran, and seems to be on a

58:18

one man mission to annoy as

58:20

many people as

58:22

he can. basically, his current club in his

58:24

country. No doubt he was delighted not

58:26

to start the game yesterday to see

58:28

his his team come to school

58:30

five goals. But

58:32

it's also he's well, this is knowing you're interested

58:34

now as well. Is Yes.

58:37

This

58:37

is a really strange thing.

58:39

For somebody that that wants

58:41

to to to go down as having a legacy in football.

58:45

He

58:46

seems

58:47

committed to really

58:50

missing off as many

58:52

of of the people as possible. So,

58:54

yeah, yeah, we we know that he's he's part so

58:56

opera and and passport. And he's a magnificent

58:59

athlete and he's completely devoted

59:01

to his professional craft. And

59:03

and and that part of me

59:05

absolutely admire his his

59:07

achievements. But, yeah, clearly, the

59:09

the departure from from

59:11

Manchester United was

59:14

engineered to put it mildly. And,

59:16

you know, he's he's playing the victim card

59:18

left, right, and sent in. And and, you

59:21

know, I I set, you know, we've we've

59:23

also got to remember that this is a father who has lost a child and and that

59:26

needs to say, but there were there were

59:28

clearly other things taking place

59:30

as well. As

59:32

far as Portugal is concerned,

59:34

yeah, if if you

59:37

get substituted with a few minutes to go

59:39

and and your side's doing okay, I I

59:41

didn't really see an issue there. And

59:43

yesterday, magnificent magnificent performance by by

59:46

Portugal. But he has to go and steal

59:48

it by

59:50

Yeah. By by by behaving like a child.

59:52

Now this this is

59:54

something which I I do feel

59:58

probably a a bit more sympathy for because it

1:00:00

relates to Uventus.

1:00:02

Now, you know, Uventus are very much on

1:00:04

my naughty step for a variety

1:00:06

of reasons. You know,

1:00:08

and we know that the board of directors

1:00:10

have have resigned en masse.

1:00:12

It now looks like there

1:00:14

are murkier and murkier issues in

1:00:16

relation to the governance and the financial performance

1:00:19

of the club. But

1:00:21

what had happened was

1:00:24

that in order to ease cash flow issues during

1:00:27

COVID, players did agree

1:00:30

to a

1:00:32

pay deferral And,

1:00:34

yeah, paid deferral means

1:00:36

you get paid later.

1:00:38

It looks like Christianeldo you

1:00:40

know, he's he's a you it eighteen months. He's he's

1:00:43

still awaiting. I think nineteen

1:00:45

point nine million euro

1:00:47

in unpaid wages. And enough.

1:00:50

He and his advisers said, well, we have we've been

1:00:52

pretty patient, but we're not

1:00:54

prepared to take this any further. I'm sorry. We're not

1:00:56

prepared to wait any

1:00:58

further. So I

1:01:00

think he's taking steps or his advisors taking

1:01:02

steps. E ventus is is

1:01:04

is very much a mess at

1:01:07

present. you know, the the board are coming

1:01:09

out with with with

1:01:12

statements saying, we've done

1:01:14

nothing wrong. Our accounting is in is

1:01:16

in aligned with standard

1:01:18

accounting practices. And I'm going,

1:01:20

well, but but not paying wages is is

1:01:22

nothing and and

1:01:24

denying it. is is not it's

1:01:26

nothing to do with standard accounting practices.

1:01:28

So, yeah, they're involved with

1:01:30

with sleight of hands there.

1:01:32

So I've I've actually got a lot of

1:01:35

sympathy for Cristiano Ronaldo, but, twenty million euros

1:01:38

it's yeah. For him for him, it's a

1:01:40

good night

1:01:42

out, clearly. you know, he's he's independently

1:01:44

wealthy. He's he he will not be in a similar

1:01:46

position to to the staff at South End who

1:01:48

who are worrying about, you know, how am

1:01:50

I gonna pay pay the

1:01:52

bills because we've got so much

1:01:54

uncertainty about being paid. But

1:01:56

it it just shows that it happens

1:01:58

at at clubs from from the national

1:01:59

league level right up to the old lady

1:02:02

herself. Is this simply a

1:02:04

case, Kieran, that Southend just haven't

1:02:06

got the money to paint? Or are

1:02:08

they just and they turned

1:02:10

it into kind of a moral issue. No.

1:02:12

No. They've they've got they they can't

1:02:14

justify this from a moral perspective because

1:02:16

it's contractual.

1:02:18

don't know whether they were just trying to rely on

1:02:20

him or his advisers assuming that they

1:02:22

would pay up within a reasonable amount

1:02:25

of time and and now it's it's

1:02:27

gone beyond that and, you know, it's it's pistols at dawn between the

1:02:30

two parties. Yeah.

1:02:32

I I don't know if there

1:02:33

is such a thing as

1:02:36

Technology Karma, Kieran. But I regret saying

1:02:38

that I was a luddite because that snap you

1:02:40

may have heard while you were talking was the

1:02:43

top of my biro breaking off.

1:02:46

That's left me unable

1:02:47

to write notes on the rest

1:02:49

of the stories. Luckily, we only

1:02:51

had two stories left, and they both involve the United. Mhmm.

1:02:54

Yes. Well, the the first

1:02:58

one. We've just been talking about Christian Ronaldo, who's most recent

1:03:00

football club wages Manchester United. And

1:03:03

this is this is something

1:03:05

in to to do with a potential

1:03:08

investment stroke takeover at

1:03:11

Manchester United. Now what

1:03:13

we've seen, you know, I said that

1:03:15

the the price of Manchester United

1:03:17

shares increased by around about seventy percent

1:03:19

in the first week

1:03:22

since the the Glazers

1:03:24

made that somewhat strange announcement to the

1:03:27

New York Stock Exchange. What

1:03:30

we've seen since then is virtually

1:03:32

no movement in the share price and

1:03:34

very few trades as well. Manchester

1:03:38

United supporters trust and there are some many, many

1:03:40

good people at the trust think excellent

1:03:42

job. And and for me

1:03:44

yeah. Yeah. I I have yeah. I

1:03:46

lived in Manchester for the for the vast majority of

1:03:49

my life. I I always separate my

1:03:51

mates who I share a a changing room

1:03:54

with the the traffic cricket

1:03:56

club, of whom they are, what

1:03:58

I would refer to as as

1:03:59

proper ads. compare

1:04:01

them to the some of the people that just make

1:04:03

noise in

1:04:03

relation to the club, but support instructions, III

1:04:06

would I would put in the former category.

1:04:10

So they've they've written an open letter, two potential

1:04:13

bidders. And I I think,

1:04:15

you know, certainly have a look at the the

1:04:17

trust website in respect to

1:04:20

this. it's it's very measured. It's very sensible.

1:04:22

They're saying that, you know,

1:04:24

loading Manchester United with debt

1:04:28

has has not been successful for Manchester

1:04:30

United. It's only been

1:04:32

successful for the banks who have been

1:04:34

the the beneficiaries of over

1:04:36

eight hundred

1:04:38

and million pounds of interest on those borrowings.

1:04:42

So they they suggest

1:04:44

that not taking a leverage

1:04:48

buyout approach would be would be far better because football

1:04:50

isn't an ordinary business. You

1:04:52

know, the the most important

1:04:54

stakeholders in a

1:04:56

football club of a fan

1:04:58

base. And I'm not and I'm not trying to be sort of,

1:05:00

you know, melodramatic when I say that

1:05:02

because, you know, without

1:05:04

without clubs

1:05:06

having fans there's no point in having the clubs

1:05:08

themselves. So they encouraged

1:05:10

the the new owners to say, yeah, we we need to

1:05:12

restore Manchester United. We need to restore

1:05:14

old trafford.

1:05:16

we need to look at

1:05:18

how Manchester United is wrong because

1:05:21

at present, Manchester United

1:05:24

is a company which is listed in New

1:05:26

York, owned in Florida, and

1:05:28

registered in the Cayman Islands. That

1:05:31

that's not Manchester. So,

1:05:33

you know -- Yeah. -- we

1:05:35

they they want proper governance.

1:05:37

They want fan representation. The setting

1:05:39

up, fan representation doesn't mean

1:05:41

fans making decisions. it means taking into consideration

1:05:43

the interests of fans

1:05:46

just as much as you do

1:05:50

for the the other people who've got connections with the club.

1:05:52

And and then it's sort of

1:05:54

things which yeah. Pretty much, I'm able to

1:05:56

touch does this

1:05:58

really matter but it does

1:05:59

matter. And it just just was,

1:06:02

I thought, a a very

1:06:04

fair

1:06:04

piece of wording, which clearly

1:06:06

there's there's people like Andy Middleton and others who have long

1:06:08

term connections with with Manchester

1:06:11

IT who who know who

1:06:14

know the real score and who can articulate that. And and

1:06:16

when you do read things like this,

1:06:18

it's a further reminder

1:06:22

to owners We're football fans, yes, we're passionate. Being

1:06:24

passionate doesn't mean that we're stupid.

1:06:26

And I think so often, we are

1:06:28

treated as

1:06:31

That's just because football historically

1:06:33

is a working class sport.

1:06:35

Therefore, by weighing working class.

1:06:37

You must be thick and being a football

1:06:39

fan. You must be thick and we're gonna treat you with with

1:06:41

contempt. Manchester Night Sports Trust does

1:06:43

a great job. I

1:06:45

also think football clubs need

1:06:47

to remember the the word club

1:06:50

-- Yep.

1:06:50

-- in in there and and and what it

1:06:52

means. And I think one club that has

1:06:54

done that is, as we said,

1:06:56

another united rather than united, they've done a

1:06:59

very good thing here. Yes. And, you

1:07:01

know, they're they're not alone in this, but I

1:07:03

I think -- Yeah. -- this came out again

1:07:05

in the last few

1:07:08

days. We've spoken earlier

1:07:11

about staff at clubs

1:07:14

being unable to pay their bills due to not being

1:07:16

paid. Well, there are

1:07:18

other people who simply can't afford to pay

1:07:20

the bills. And, yeah, you know, you

1:07:22

know, people, parents, especially families

1:07:24

having to make heat or heat decisions.

1:07:26

Now, I'm also fully aware

1:07:30

that if you're an elderly person and you're living

1:07:32

in a place during the winter, your your

1:07:34

fuel bill has just gone through the

1:07:38

roof. So if if you if we

1:07:40

if you can't afford to to heat your house

1:07:42

during the day, is there somewhere where

1:07:44

you can go to keep warm, step

1:07:47

forward Rotherham United. What they've said is they're gonna open

1:07:49

up for New York Stadium. And we're just gonna

1:07:52

provide you with, yeah, simple things,

1:07:54

yeah, cups of tea, somewhere warm when you

1:07:56

can have a sit you can watch the tele,

1:07:58

and it will give you a few hours

1:08:00

respite during the

1:08:02

day. And fair play to

1:08:04

the club because they've acted

1:08:06

as a club. They've acted as

1:08:08

a community hub. They're

1:08:10

doing all of the things, which

1:08:12

I think should be part of of the core of the game in this

1:08:14

country because it is more than a sport. You

1:08:17

know, we we

1:08:20

wouldn't travel the length and

1:08:22

breadth of the country to watch matches. If it was just a sport, it's far more

1:08:28

than that. the rather than United's management team, it it

1:08:30

will cost them a a wee bit more, but, yeah, what

1:08:34

they'll get back in goodwill. because, you know, hopefully,

1:08:36

when these people's personal circumstances

1:08:38

improve, they'll say, when I was

1:08:40

at my lowest, I was able to

1:08:42

go to the New York stadium. I

1:08:45

was able to to have a blanket

1:08:47

around me. Also, to have a chat with people. You

1:08:49

know, loneliness is a killer

1:08:50

this Christmas, especially for elderly people. So

1:08:52

especially for the elderly people so

1:08:55

well

1:08:55

done rather, and

1:08:55

that's all I can say. And then not alone.

1:08:58

Yeah. I do you know,

1:08:59

I'm I'm fed up here, and

1:09:01

we keep say a fifth largest economy in the world, it

1:09:03

shouldn't be happening, but it shouldn't be happening anywhere in

1:09:05

the world. No one it's twenty twenty

1:09:08

two, you

1:09:10

know, the world is a wash with money. No one anywhere

1:09:12

should be worried about having enough

1:09:14

to eat or being able to

1:09:16

be warm during cold

1:09:19

times and told you hot time just not

1:09:21

it's not right. It needs to change. And I'm proud to say though that Palace are

1:09:23

one of the other clubs that do it. Palace

1:09:25

is opening a what they're calling

1:09:27

a warm hub base

1:09:31

purely in the logic, Steve

1:09:33

Paris said that the grounds open anyway.

1:09:35

We're paying electricity bills. It's only

1:09:37

right that we invite local people in the community who are struggling to come in and do

1:09:39

the same thing. You know, read the paper, have

1:09:41

a warm, have a cup

1:09:43

tea, cup soup, we'll

1:09:46

provide a meal. And and it's it's

1:09:49

what we've been talking about right from the start

1:09:51

when it comes at the heart of the

1:09:53

community. Also, if you already went near, sellers

1:09:55

park. They've just opened a

1:09:58

donation center to

1:10:01

provide food and other stuff for

1:10:04

four food banks in South London,

1:10:06

which is an area and most people

1:10:08

don't know particular deprivation around the

1:10:10

ground. So If you do want to go down, it's very openly. It's a

1:10:12

big collection center answer. So if you do want

1:10:15

to do next up, that would be very

1:10:17

kind of it. And also, I have

1:10:19

to point out again some young

1:10:21

people from the Palace Academy and some young people

1:10:24

from foundation

1:10:27

player development courses. these

1:10:29

are fourteen to eighteen year olds, ask the club if they could borrow the academy on

1:10:31

the Sundays. The only

1:10:34

day it's not used. They

1:10:37

organized the tour. They did this in

1:10:40

the space of three weeks, and they organized the football tournament.

1:10:42

And they raised about seven thousand quid towards the Pakistan

1:10:44

flood. donations.

1:10:47

And so it's it's brilliant. We're talking enough

1:10:49

about the greed -- Mhmm. -- of footballers on the

1:10:51

show queue, and it's only

1:10:53

right that we highlight the good things that people

1:10:55

in football are doing, and we'd only

1:10:57

be too pleased to hear what your

1:11:00

club are doing as well because I think

1:11:02

we need to share these stories you know, we spoke about Christmas Carol

1:11:04

early one that does have, you know,

1:11:06

it's one of my favorite stories.

1:11:09

And that's for

1:11:12

a reason. And that's enough tiny team stuff

1:11:14

here. because we those listeners that we lost

1:11:16

with the sound effects have probably

1:11:18

gone off by debugging somewhere else.

1:11:21

The interview with Mark White will be available shortly after

1:11:23

this drops, I believe, is Can you get you? Do you

1:11:25

see you check the logic and

1:11:27

believe we use? It's I

1:11:30

would say available, but apparently, guys, as we have

1:11:32

to say, it dropped. So I hope

1:11:34

you enjoy listening to that. Just a

1:11:36

reminder that our next live show, which

1:11:39

was due to take place for the hard drive

1:11:41

home park next week and the thirteenth of December will now take

1:11:43

place on the 21st of March next

1:11:46

year. We hope you can join us in that new day if you can't

1:11:49

and you have a ticket. The club has

1:11:51

confirmed that, of course, you'll be

1:11:53

able to get a full refund. Thank you to everyone

1:11:55

who's donated to support via our Patreon page. If

1:11:57

you'd like to join and make a small

1:11:59

monthly contribution, then please go to

1:12:01

patreon dot com slash price of affordable. And if you have

1:12:03

a question, you'd like answered on the show. Email is at questions at

1:12:05

price at football dot com. In the meantime, I

1:12:07

shall hand you

1:12:08

over to Mr. Kieran McGowath

1:12:11

at least Well, thanks as always, folks for

1:12:13

this sport. And we are we will get to Plymouth. We do apologize that it's been

1:12:15

it's taken a little bit

1:12:19

longer. we're quite keen, I think, to do

1:12:21

a few other tour shows.

1:12:23

So we're we're not we

1:12:25

we we is there any

1:12:27

promoters out there? who who run an

1:12:29

organization where where they'd like us to to come up, we'll get getting

1:12:32

contact because we we're not we're

1:12:34

not used to doing the booking side of

1:12:36

things. And

1:12:38

I think it's a case for saying it might

1:12:40

be better in in more of a

1:12:43

theatrical establishment than necessarily a

1:12:46

football club itself because sometimes they're a bit echoey and they don't

1:12:48

necessarily work as as

1:12:50

as as entertainment venues. But

1:12:54

there there's various ways in which you

1:12:56

you can support podcast and

1:12:58

and Patreon is one. Thank you

1:13:01

very much. Patreon supporters at the

1:13:03

other way of doing that. is is

1:13:05

to go into your podcast app.

1:13:07

Is is is to get apples and Spotify's algorithms all worked

1:13:11

up with with positive vibes about the price football podcast. And the way that

1:13:13

you do that is if you give us

1:13:15

a review and give

1:13:18

us five stars, if you think we're worth it, not if you don't.

1:13:20

If if you wanna scribble

1:13:22

a few words, we're we're always

1:13:24

happy to read them and and and

1:13:26

we got some very, very amusing listeners.

1:13:28

It doesn't matter what you say. You could even say

1:13:30

you would rather have the show presented by

1:13:34

Maxi Lopez because he's

1:13:37

He's busy not buying Birmingham City at

1:13:39

present, and Jennifer Lopez. And she could provide some sound effects, and that'd that'd be fine

1:13:41

with us. That provides some

1:13:43

sort of fault.

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