0:22

Hi there. My name is Sherri Lund. This is the Probate Podcast.

0:25

I'm so glad that you're here! Today, my guest is Matt

0:26

Van Drimmelen and he's

0:30

with Full Circle Aftercare.

0:32

I can't wait for you to

0:32

hear about what he does

0:34

and how he can help people

0:34

really across the nation.

0:37

He's doing great work across the nation. Let me tell you a

0:39

little bit about him. But before I do, I wanna

0:41

remind you to get your

0:43

favorite drink and to get a

0:43

pen and paper because we're

0:46

gonna be talking about some

0:46

things that you're gonna wanna

0:48

remember and we'll get started.

0:51

Matt, thank you so

0:51

much for joining me.

0:54

Thank you. Happy to be here. Yeah.

0:56

So Matt Van Drimmelen was

0:56

born and raised in the

0:59

foothills of the Majestic

0:59

Mountains of Northern Utah.

1:02

Beautiful area. Been there several times.

1:05

He married his high school

1:05

sweetheart, Marquessa.

1:08

And they have six

1:08

children, ages four to 15.

1:11

Matt and his family love the outdoors. They like to ski camp,

1:13

rock climbing, and kayak.

1:16

They're focused on teaching

1:16

responsibility and hard work

1:19

to their children, and they're

1:19

in charge of tending the

1:22

garden and helping raise the

1:22

backyard bunnies and chickens.

1:25

Matt served a two year mission

1:25

trip with his church in Bolivia,

1:28

and he speaks fluent Spanish. He loves to build things

1:31

and solve problems, so he

1:34

studied civil engineering. After years of working on

1:35

commuter rail projects and

1:38

right of way, Matt's friend

1:38

approached him about a problem

1:42

in the funeral industry. Families were struggling with

1:43

the logistics of closing estates

1:47

after the loss of loved ones. In 2013, he founded Full Circle

1:49

Aftercare to help families

1:53

with those difficult tasks. Now they have hospice and

1:55

funeral home clients in

1:58

37 states, and they serve

1:58

1700 families a month.

2:03

That number's growing. So Matt, again, thank

2:04

you so much for coming.

2:07

was excited when I heard about

2:07

the service that you offer.

2:10

I think it's highly, highly

2:10

needed and seldom talked about.

2:14

And so you guys really

2:14

stepped up and provide a

2:16

great service in a niche

2:16

that's necessary, I think.

2:20

Thank you. It's honestly just

2:20

wonderful work to be able

2:24

to help families, because

2:24

it's a confusing time.

2:26

It's really not complicated

2:26

what we deal with, but it's

2:28

complicated when you have that

2:28

emotional tie of losing a loved

2:32

one and not knowing what those

2:32

next steps are can be difficult.

2:36

We don't do these things every day, so it's nice to have someone step in and hold your

2:38

hand through that process.

2:41

I was a naturopath and part of

2:41

my work was in the emotional

2:44

health and how it translates

2:44

to physical health and grief

2:48

has so many facets to it. And one of them is we just

2:49

don't think, we cannot think

2:52

well when we're overcome with

2:52

grief, it's not predictable.

2:56

It's not like we can say,

2:56

okay, from four to six

2:58

in the afternoon, I'm

2:58

gonna let myself grieve.

3:01

It comes on us in the

3:01

strangest of times and

3:04

then it's unpredictable,

3:04

it's overwhelming.

3:08

And it's exhausting. So what we could have done

3:09

before we lost our loved

3:12

we could have knocked it

3:12

out in an afternoon, maybe.

3:16

Now it takes us weeks and months

3:16

just to have a cohesive thought.

3:20

It's hard to even put

3:20

words together sometimes

3:23

when we're in grief. And even though what you do is

3:24

not complicated, I don't wanna

3:26

diminish the importance of what

3:26

you're doing, because you're an

3:29

objective person to the family. And I know that you don't

3:31

physically do all of the work for all of your

3:33

customers, but your team

3:36

comes in and is able to take

3:36

the reins for the family.

3:39

So describe what Full

3:39

Circle is and what you do.

3:43

Absolutely. So when someone passes away,

3:44

Everything that person's life

3:48

touched needs to be addressed

3:48

by the family members.

3:52

We think oftentimes of the funeral. And we think of

3:53

the personal items. Where do we take dad's

3:55

guns and the books and

3:58

what do we do with his car? But we don't think about

4:00

all the other things

4:02

that our lives touch. Everything from government

4:02

benefits like social security

4:05

to pensions, 401Ks, credit

4:05

cards, utilities memberships,

4:10

Netflix and AARP memberships

4:10

and newspaper subscriptions.

4:15

And just going through all

4:15

that can be really complicated.

4:18

I keep this under my desk. I won't show you the logo,

4:19

but a big funeral home

4:22

conglomerate sells this big

4:22

albatross with the two and

4:26

a half inch binder inside. And this is a pretty

4:27

comprehensive list of everything

4:31

that family would have to know

4:31

to get through those next steps.

4:35

And because it's so frustrating

4:35

and so difficult for the

4:38

family, this is overwhelming. Nobody wants to go through that

4:39

two and a half inch binder.

4:42

And so what we determined is

4:42

families need some handholding.

4:46

They need a real concierge

4:46

to walk 'em through this.

4:49

And so that's what we are,

4:49

we're just a concierge service

4:51

where we white label under

4:51

services like funeral homes

4:55

and hosts and law firms. And even some real estate

4:58

agents across the country,

5:00

and what we do is they pay

5:00

for our service or they sell

5:04

our service to their families. We go in and we help the

5:06

family figure out what

5:09

those next steps are. What accounts did their

5:10

loved one have and what

5:12

needs to be closed down? And then we will systematically

5:14

go through each of the

5:16

phone calls to make the

5:16

notifications and help

5:19

them start that process. We're not attorneys.

5:22

We're not trying to be,

5:22

we're not financial planners.

5:24

We're not trying to be those either. We're really just helping

5:26

with that notification process

5:28

and getting organized and

5:28

what those next steps are,

5:31

and then helping the family

5:31

find other professionals

5:34

that would help 'em if they

5:34

need such as an attorney or

5:37

a tax advisor moving forward. So that's it in a nutshell.

5:41

It's really just handholding,

5:41

understanding what the family

5:43

needs to do, helping them

5:43

make the notifications and

5:46

phone calls fill out whatever

5:46

paperwork we can, and taking

5:49

a process on average takes a

5:49

family with less than $10,000

5:53

of assets 14 months to make

5:53

all those notifications.

5:57

Wow. On average, we're done

5:58

in less than a week. We make the calls for them,

6:00

and oftentimes they have to

6:03

make one or none phone calls.

6:06

Wow. ..Have it happen. That's amazing.

6:10

I didn't realize it took

6:10

that long and that you

6:12

guys can do it so quickly. We can.

6:14

Well, And you take the emotional side out of it... ..Yes.

6:17

Also, take the fact that,

6:17

hey, if I'm gonna call

6:20

social security, I'm gonna

6:20

call the general number.

6:23

I'm gonna sit on hold for 50

6:23

minutes on my own, but because

6:26

we do such high volume, we

6:26

can call social security

6:28

and get in, on average in

6:28

less than seven minutes.

6:31

Wow. Or same thing, you're gonna

6:32

call a utility company and press

6:36

one, press seven, press four. Did I press the right number and

6:38

then stay on hold for an hour?

6:42

We have built connections with

6:42

most of those companies so we

6:45

can get right in and we know

6:45

how to make the notification.

6:49

There's the little video and we

6:49

can all relate to it, but when

6:52

you're on hold and the computer

6:52

is asking you, what do you want?

6:55

And you start screaming at

6:55

the phone because you've

6:58

told it already, I wanna

6:58

speak to a representative.

7:00

You know? Representative. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

7:03

The person down the street

7:03

can hear you talking to the

7:06

phone, screaming at the phone. Yes.

7:08

So you don't have to do that

7:08

because you guys skip ahead and

7:11

you have all those numbers handy .. and, Has there been

7:13

something for you that has

7:17

touched, that has connected

7:17

with you, like the sense of

7:20

fulfillment of the logistical

7:20

stuff that you're doing.

7:23

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, as an engineering

7:24

background for me, it's all

7:28

mathematics, it's linear course,

7:28

just that you said, right?

7:30

And hey, how can I take a

7:30

complicated process and make it

7:33

simple, easy, and user friendly?

7:35

What I didn't calculate was

7:35

the emotional side of it.

7:39

And I remember I was

7:39

probably just a year into it.

7:43

We were trying to struggle and

7:43

figure out the company and I

7:45

was really trying to get things

7:45

more effective in our usage.

7:49

And I was working with the

7:49

hospice out of Wyoming.

7:52

And this gentleman I

7:52

helped, his name was Earl.

7:55

He had lost a son who's 22

7:55

years old and his son had

7:59

been disabled his whole life. So it wasn't

8:00

completely unexpected. He was on hospice.

8:03

They knew he would die young

8:03

and Earl, I grew up watching

8:07

like John Wayne and these

8:07

spaghetti westerns and Earl

8:10

sounded just like John Wayne. He kind of had that drawl

8:12

sounded like he could chew up

8:15

nails and spit 'em out, and

8:15

I remember going through the

8:17

checklist and of all the things

8:17

we could normally help with,

8:21

there were just one or two items

8:21

we needed to do for his son.

8:25

I dealt with some social

8:25

security benefits.

8:27

I dealt with canceling a credit card, setting up some fraud protection,

8:28

and that was about it.

8:31

And I'm sitting there on the phone and I'm like, Earl, that's it.

8:35

I don't think there's anything

8:35

else we need to do for your son.

8:37

And it's just silence. I'm like, Earl, are you there?

8:41

Did I lose you? And suddenly he comes

8:43

back, choked up.

8:45

Now here's Mr. True Grit, right?

8:47

And he's choked up and he

8:47

goes, Matt, the thing I have

8:52

dreaded most after my son died

8:52

was calling these strangers

8:56

and having to save my sweet

8:56

son's name and telling them

8:59

that he passed away and the

8:59

fact that you did all of that

9:02

for me means everything to

9:02

me, and all of a sudden it

9:07

just touched me in a way that

9:07

I was like, this is more than

9:12

helping them with logistics. This is holding someone's

9:13

hand who just lost someone

9:17

who's part of their life and they love them. And now they don't

9:19

have to sit on hold.

9:21

They don't have to talk

9:21

to a stranger and be like,

9:24

my son died, or My mom

9:24

died, or my wife died.

9:28

Instead, we can do that for

9:28

them and we can take that weight

9:31

off their shoulders and give

9:31

them a little peace of mind.

9:34

And at that moment, my passion

9:34

for this completely changed.

9:37

And it wasn't so much about the logistics. That's a still big part of it.

9:40

It was about helping people

9:40

and being there for them at a

9:44

difficult moment of their life. Sure. You saw value that was

9:46

intrinsic at that point.

9:49

I have a friend who is a widow.

9:51

I think her husband

9:51

passed away 4 years ago.

9:54

And she said one time that

9:54

she was trying really hard to

9:57

keep his memory alive and to

9:57

keep things around, to keep

10:01

him with her, even though

10:01

he was gone, but she had

10:04

to make those phone calls. She didn't know about your

10:06

service, and so she said,

10:09

Sherri, while I am trying to

10:09

keep his memory alive, I'm

10:12

also having to call people

10:12

and tell them to erase his

10:15

name from our account or from

10:15

that statement or whatever.

10:19

And just the conflict

10:19

of that was like, how

10:23

do you bridge that? How do you rectify that?

10:26

And I didn't know as a friend,

10:26

I was number one honored that

10:29

she shared that with -nobody

10:29

else had explain that to me.

10:32

But number two, I felt helpless

10:32

to know what to say back to her.

10:35

And they're so vulnerable

10:35

and so fragile that I don't

10:40

want to say the wrong thing. So sometimes I say nothing, and

10:41

that's not always good either.

10:45

So the fact that you guys just

10:45

take that away and let them

10:48

have their peace and heal as

10:48

they need to, you take that on

10:52

so they don't have to, I guess

10:52

is what I'm trying to say.

10:55

We notice a transition

10:55

as we're helping families

10:57

because at the beginning we

10:57

get a lot of families who

11:00

are almost stoic about the

11:00

whole situation, and others

11:03

who are maybe a little angry. I'm a little frustrated about

11:05

what we're going through and I

11:08

remember we had our trainer, she

11:08

was helping train a new employee

11:12

and I peeked my head at the

11:12

beginning and this new employee

11:15

looked at me with eyes this big

11:15

and I could hear this guy and he

11:18

was just angry at the world and

11:18

kind of cussing everyone out.

11:22

And I talked to a therapist

11:22

who had gone through our

11:26

service and he goes, there's

11:26

something about that.

11:28

There's this weight. And as these things come off, it

11:29

lifts the weight, but then all

11:33

these other emotions bubble up. Like you said, like they're

11:35

being erased and it's difficult,

11:38

but also needs to happen. So oftentimes he'll

11:39

get very emotional. So he was this big jerk

11:41

and swearing at everyone

11:43

and everything, and then

11:43

all of a sudden he just

11:46

stops and he starts crying.

11:48

After they'd gotten through

11:48

a big item that he needed

11:50

to get off his plate. And he goes, oh, I feel

11:52

so relieved, and thank you

11:55

so much for helping me. I'm sorry I've been angry.

11:57

I just don't know how

11:57

to deal with this loss.

12:00

And so this new employee came

12:00

walking outta there and like,

12:02

"this is the best work!" And I thought she was gonna quit

12:03

on her first day because she

12:07

was so taken aback by this guy. But she's yeah,

12:08

this is important. And you're right.

12:11

It's difficult to get through. That's why it's so nice to have

12:13

someone there who's caring, who

12:16

can hold your hand through that

12:16

process so you don't feel like

12:19

you're doing it by yourself. And what I like about what you

12:20

do is it's not anything that I

12:24

do, but what we do is parallel. So you offer concierge

12:26

services for admin type of

12:30

stuff, and I do the boots on

12:30

the ground dealing with the

12:32

property and the personal

12:32

belongings and whatnot, and

12:35

..So, so necessary! Yes, but also compatible

12:37

and very necessary.

12:41

Getting information from

12:41

people that's the hardest part

12:44

because once we can get the

12:44

information, it's the decisions

12:47

that they have to make. I can run with that for a little

12:48

bit and then if we need to

12:51

make adjustments, I can come

12:51

back and make adjustments.

12:53

But that first initial

12:53

piece is the hardest.

12:56

What is your process and when

12:56

should somebody call you?

13:00

How soon? This has been something

13:02

that's been actually a big learning curve for us.

13:05

We thought that the ideal

13:05

time to call us was about the

13:09

six week to two month mark. And so we would have our

13:11

funeral homes that were

13:14

referring families over to us. Wait a couple months and

13:16

then send them to us. And we started getting a lot

13:18

of complaints from families

13:21

and the biggest complaint

13:21

was that we'd taken so long

13:24

to reach out to 'em because

13:24

there are those who feel like

13:27

they need to do something. And I think a perfect

13:29

example of this is my

13:31

wife is a ballet teacher. So she's a stay-at-home mom,

13:33

but she likes to teach ballet.

13:35

The owner of the ballet

13:35

studio, her husband passed

13:38

away about a year ago. And so Marquessa calls me

13:40

and she's Hey, will you call

13:43

Klidi and just give her our

13:43

service to help her with

13:47

the passing of her husband? I said, absolutely.

13:49

So I call Klidi and I'm like,

13:49

Klidi, I don't know if you know

13:53

what I do, but we help close

13:53

out the kind of the admin things

13:56

of an estate, and I'd love to

13:56

offer you our service for free.

13:59

Anything I can do to help. And she's oh, I would love that.

14:02

I can't talk right now

14:02

because I'm at the bank.

14:05

So let me call you back this afternoon. And I was like, Klidi

14:07

you're at the bank.

14:09

Turn around and walk out the door. And she's " like, no, no, no.

14:12

I'm next in line" Klidi

14:12

just turn around and

14:15

walk out the door. I need to talk to you right now. And she's oh my goodness.

14:18

So she goes out, she goes "what?" And I was like, "were you

14:19

going to tell them that Spencer just passed away?"

14:22

And she's " yeah." And I was like, " you know

14:23

what they're gonna do?

14:26

They're gonna freeze your bank account. Is that the same bank

14:28

that you do your run

14:31

your business out of?" "Yes." "Then your business banking

14:33

will also be frozen and

14:35

you won't be able to pay

14:35

your rent for the studio.

14:38

You won't be able to collect

14:38

checks, you won't be able

14:41

to do anything until you get

14:41

through that next process."

14:43

And she was taken aback oh, I had no idea. And so what we find is

14:46

the funeral homes have now

14:49

completely reversed course,

14:49

and they ask us to reach

14:52

out to the family within

14:52

72 hours after death.

14:55

Wow. Not because we typically

14:55

start the process that soon.

14:58

But just so we can be there as a resource saying, Hey, we're here.

15:02

If you have any questions before

15:02

you do anything, talk to us.

15:05

Because there's an order. We have to do certain things

15:07

in an order or it's gonna

15:10

create a little bit of a mess. And so yeah, the

15:11

sooner the better. After someone has passed away.

15:16

We can help them. And then oftentimes we'll

15:17

talk through a few of their

15:20

initial questions and we'll

15:20

actually do our service.

15:22

We usually start at about two to three weeks after death, depending on what

15:24

the family situation is.

15:27

And what is that process

15:27

like When they call you?

15:30

Do they need to have

15:30

statements on hand?

15:32

Do they need to have bank

15:32

accounts and all do you handle

15:34

that the first conversation, or?

15:37

Typically not. So typically the first

15:37

conversation we're really

15:40

asking questions and

15:40

figuring out what there is.

15:42

And, most families don't know. Even spouses don't know.

15:45

It seems like one spouse dealt

15:45

with all the finances and all

15:49

the paperwork, and one spouse

15:49

didn't, and when that one dies,

15:54

the other one's I have no idea. I don't know.

15:56

Do we have retirement accounts? Maybe. And oftentimes It's just

15:57

an asking those questions

16:01

to start giving direction

16:01

of what we need to do, and

16:03

then we're going to help

16:03

them search for those items.

16:05

So we might be pulling credit reports to see what accounts are open.

16:09

We might have them pull out a

16:09

bank statement and just look

16:11

at, hey, what money's coming

16:11

into the bank, what money's

16:14

going out and just walking

16:14

them through a couple tips

16:16

and tricks to help them figure

16:16

out what there is to do.

16:19

And then obviously helping

16:19

complete that process.

16:22

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Can you describe the types

16:24

of clients that you get?

16:28

Are they mostly

16:28

surviving spouses?

16:30

Yeah, I mean the surviving

16:30

spouses, there's definitely

16:33

the most to do with the

16:33

surviving spouse most accounts

16:38

don't need to be closed,

16:38

but need to be transferred

16:40

to one spouse's name. Sometimes they don't wanna

16:41

do that, so it's just a

16:43

little bit more information. As well as like government

16:45

benefits, there's a lot to do there.

16:48

I don't know if you know

16:48

this, but social security

16:50

was audited a few years ago. It was a sample audit, so it

16:51

wasn't a full audit, but they

16:54

looked at widows and widowers

16:54

who should have received

16:57

their spousal benefit, and

16:57

they found that only 18% were

17:02

receiving their full spousal. Wow.

17:04

Wow. But 82% were underpaid.

17:08

And those types of situations,

17:08

obviously there's a lot for

17:11

us to do to make sure that all

17:11

their benefits come through and

17:14

those things are taken care of. And then with an adult

17:16

child we're losing a parent.

17:20

That's gonna vary on our work. Sometimes there's very

17:22

little for us to do because

17:25

mom's been in a retirement

17:25

home for the last 30 years.

17:28

She hasn't owned a checkbook,

17:28

let alone a credit card, let

17:32

alone energy bills, right?

17:34

And so there's just not that

17:34

many people to contact, there's

17:37

no surviving benefits because

17:37

there's no surviving spouse.

17:40

All the way down to, we've

17:40

had situations where, We had

17:45

a young widow that I helped..

17:48

Her husband was serving

17:48

in Afghanistan, got

17:51

hurt, got really sick

17:51

and ended up coming home.

17:53

So she's raising three

17:53

kids by herself and her

17:57

husband comes back sick. She quits her job to take

17:59

care of him, and he passed

18:02

away about six months later. Because she was young,

18:04

she just was a little bit naive to how things worked.

18:07

And wouldn't you believe it? Her landlord comes over to her

18:09

and says, " Hey, I heard that

18:12

your husband died and if that

18:12

means you can't pay rent, then

18:15

you might as well move out now so I don't have to evict you." So she's thinking, she's

18:18

gonna be moved out, she's gonna be homeless.

18:21

She has these three kids,

18:21

she has no income source.

18:24

And I remember starting

18:24

that phone call and she

18:26

was just so panicked what

18:26

is going to happen to me?

18:30

And after that one was a

18:30

little bit longer 'cause there

18:33

was a lot of things to do

18:33

with that kind of situation.

18:36

And after about two and a

18:36

half hours we had to have

18:38

everything worked out. We got her benefits all set up

18:39

and I remember she was gonna

18:42

have $1,700 a month coming in.

18:44

We found like a $5,000

18:44

life insurance policy.

18:47

We found some rental assistance. We found all sorts

18:48

of things for her. And she goes, Matt,

18:50

I can do this.

18:54

And like hearing that confidence

18:54

in her with, at the beginning,

18:57

just that transition over a few

18:57

hours was really beneficial.

19:00

So it really depends on the

19:00

family, even those families

19:04

where there's not much to do. Sometimes having the peace

19:05

of mind of going through a

19:09

checklist with someone, figuring

19:09

it out and being like, there's

19:12

nothing else you have to do for your mom or your dad. Sometimes they give us the

19:15

greatest reviews because they

19:18

were just so stressed about it. They didn't know you don't

19:19

know what you don't know and..

19:21

Right. And you guys are another

19:21

set of eyes and you do

19:24

know what to look for. So that the assurance that would

19:25

come from having someone like

19:29

y'all look at their accounts

19:29

would just be that stamp

19:32

of approval that they need. You can just check that off.

19:34

They don't have to worry about it. I've done a lot of situations

19:36

where I'll go to like assisted

19:39

living facilities, and I'll

19:39

talk about our service and

19:42

I always ask the question, who here dealt with this? Raise your hand.

19:45

What was your experience like? And they're always

19:46

like, oh, I loved it. It was the best experience.

19:48

...no, they're always like, it was awful. I had no idea what to do.

19:51

And then I always

19:51

ask a question, how

19:54

long did it take you? And guess what the

19:55

number one answer is? I don't know.

19:58

I'm not sure if we ever finished. And they're carrying this

20:00

grief and they're also carrying

20:05

this worry and this anxiety. Yep. Is there something I missed?

20:08

Did I do something wrong? Did I miss out on something?

20:11

For the rest of their lives. And just having someone go

20:12

through like, that's it.

20:15

You don't need to worry about it. That is really helpful.

20:19

I would have to say the same

20:19

thing with settling the estate.

20:22

Yeah. From the property level. There's one family that I

20:23

know of it's the most extreme

20:26

that I've heard of, but

20:26

they've kept the house vacant,

20:29

but they keep maintaining

20:29

the lawn for 10 years.

20:32

They keep the utilities on

20:32

because they can't stand the

20:35

thought of selling the property. So they're still liable for it.

20:37

They're still maintaining

20:37

the taxes, but no one is

20:40

living there because they've

20:40

made it into a monument.

20:43

But even when people have

20:43

moved on, say the surviving

20:46

spouse, they don't always

20:46

transfer the title.

20:49

So when the second person passes

20:49

away, then the adult child

20:52

finds that probate was never

20:52

really tidied up and finished.

20:56

And yeah, it can just go on

20:56

indefinitely and then it becomes

20:59

a bigger problem down the road. It does, it makes...

21:02

it's such a gift to your

21:02

children to, when you have

21:06

the first spouse pass away,

21:06

to make sure that everything

21:09

gets transitioned correctly

21:09

so that they don't have this

21:12

big, huge mess to deal with

21:12

if you can take care of it.

21:15

That is such a gift. Yeah. And it's so nice when that

21:16

has been done correctly.

21:19

Yeah. Yes. I would underline that from my

21:21

personal experience when my mom

21:24

passed away, dad passed away 18

21:24

months later, of course I grieve

21:28

my dad, but I also grieved the

21:28

loss of both of my parents now.

21:32

And so it was like some

21:32

of mom all over again.

21:35

It was different with dad

21:35

and it, was compounded.

21:39

But to have that taken off

21:39

of our plate would've been

21:43

really nice to say the least. So you're in 37 states?

21:47

Yes. I won't make you name them all.

21:49

Just added Canada too. So we're headed up.

21:52

Oh, yay. Good job.

21:54

Thank you. That's awesome Matt. So obviously.

21:58

Maybe I shouldn't say obviously. Do you have people in

21:59

every state that go and

22:02

talk to people in person? Great question.

22:04

No, we when we first started

22:04

out, everything was in person.

22:08

And what we found was we

22:08

were better tag teaming

22:13

with people like you, right? People like you can go in and

22:14

talk to 'em about personal

22:17

property and about selling the

22:17

house and those types of things.

22:21

For the admin thing, sometimes

22:21

it just stressed the family

22:24

out to have us come and they

22:24

need to clean the house,

22:27

they need to do those things. So we started doing it virtually

22:28

just over the phone and through

22:31

Zoom calls and found that

22:31

families much preferred that.

22:35

And, being able to do that allowed us to keep our costs low.

22:39

So we really reduced the cost

22:39

of our service, which allowed

22:43

us to help more families. So we have our main call

22:44

center here in Utah.

22:47

We have remote employees

22:47

all over the place.

22:51

But this is the principal area

22:51

and then we have experts based

22:54

upon whatever area we're in. So in our Texas market, we

22:56

have state specialists who

22:59

have been trained for Texas

22:59

laws, understand that some

23:02

of them are living in Texas

23:02

and some just study Texas

23:05

laws and step in there. But they're all gonna be

23:07

remote even if they do

23:09

live locally, just because

23:09

it's easier for the family.

23:12

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Is there did people ever

23:14

misunderstand what you do?

23:17

Oh, yeah. I think sometimes people think

23:18

that in fact our original

23:22

name was final assistance. And for some reason people

23:24

heard financial assistance.

23:27

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think a lot of

23:28

times people think that

23:31

we are trying to help them

23:31

find money or invest money

23:34

or things like that, which

23:34

we don't do any of that.

23:37

And sometimes people think,

23:37

want us to do things that

23:41

are really better suited. We're an attorney or

23:42

a real estate agent. We just can't get

23:44

into those areas. They're not what we are.

23:48

But if they're explained

23:48

properly, I think most families

23:50

understand what our scope

23:50

is and how we fit into that

23:55

will, which cog we are in

23:55

that will of those next steps.

23:58

Yeah. And, with identity theft

23:59

and all of that can you

24:03

talk a little bit about

24:03

that and how, what you do.

24:06

Plays into that. Absolutely.

24:08

So identity theft is a

24:08

huge problem, I think.

24:11

Last statistic I saw was

24:11

about 2.5 million deceased

24:16

individuals get their identity

24:16

stolen every year, 2.5 million,

24:20

which is a huge number. And there's nothing worse

24:22

for that family to have to

24:26

lose their loved one and then

24:26

have their loved ones affairs

24:29

muddied by an identity theft.

24:32

And We do several layers of that. The very best thing is to turn

24:34

off all the credit bureaus

24:39

because most lending and a

24:39

lot of fraud financially go

24:42

through the credit bureaus. So that's a process.

24:44

The first thing we'll do is

24:44

we'll set up fraud protection

24:47

on the deceased name and

24:47

every person in the family.

24:51

It's not always just targeted. The deceased, oftentimes it's

24:52

targeted as thriving spouse.

24:55

Oh, interesting. Adult children. So we'll do fraud

24:57

protection for them. Then we go in and help the

24:59

family permanently close out

25:03

all the credit bureaus so

25:03

that social security number

25:07

and name can't be used. We do a deceased registry.

25:10

Which is a government registry

25:10

that helps them stop other

25:14

like insurance policies

25:14

and things like that being

25:16

issued in that person's name. We like I said, the credit

25:18

monitoring, we also put all

25:21

their phones on, do not solicit. One thing, we're able to stop

25:22

about 95% of the junk mail

25:27

that comes in that deceased

25:27

name because we'll update

25:30

the national drug Marketers

25:30

Association, and they want

25:35

their list updated anyways. And that's where most

25:37

of junk mail comes. But that also protects the

25:38

family because oftentimes people

25:41

take that junk mail pre credit

25:41

card offer or something, they'll

25:44

fill it out, apply for it, and

25:44

that's how the fraud occurs.

25:48

And Having us check all those

25:48

accounts, plus making the proper

25:51

notifications to government

25:51

benefits and things like that.

25:54

Which is also a big area of fraud. Should take care of it.

25:58

And then we want to remove

25:58

their name from as many

26:01

sources as possible. So we're taking their name

26:02

off lists, we're taking

26:04

them off memberships, off

26:04

of subscriptions, off of all

26:07

those different things, which

26:07

then further helps protect

26:10

that family from fraud. Yeah. So you're taking that burden

26:13

from them, you're taking

26:15

this weight away of the

26:15

potential for identity theft.

26:20

Is there something else that

26:20

you help families avoid?

26:23

Yeah, I think one of the things

26:23

we're really trying to help the

26:26

families avoid are more problems

26:26

down the road or making good

26:30

decisions at this point, right?

26:32

We're gonna do a lot of

26:32

education on things that

26:36

could happen next, right? So we're gonna

26:38

educate the families.

26:40

What is probate and

26:40

what does that mean?

26:42

What is a will? What is a trust? When would one get triggered

26:44

or when would you need a trust?

26:47

When do you need a will? What's the legal side of it?

26:50

The financial side, payable upon death. There's a lot of education

26:52

saying this is what it was

26:55

now that it's just one. So for example, two spouses

26:56

marry, they own a home together.

27:01

The one spouse passes

27:01

away: In most states, that

27:04

doesn't trigger probate. The surviving spouse

27:05

is able to sell. They'll just need to

27:07

bring a death certificate if they sell that home.

27:10

But if they do nothing, when

27:10

they pass away, it will trigger

27:13

probate for their children. So helping them understand

27:15

"Your situation's now changed.

27:18

So moving forward, here's

27:18

the things we need to put in

27:21

place to protect your estate

27:21

and protect your children."

27:25

Now we're not gonna do that, right? So you need to talk to an

27:26

attorney, or we can give you

27:29

a discount code through an

27:29

online form if you just need

27:33

a will or something like that. We're gonna help them facilitate

27:35

those next steps but yeah, a

27:37

lot of it is that education

27:37

on the state matters that

27:40

people don't understand

27:40

getting their name off, things,

27:43

changing, the name, funding

27:43

the trust, that type of thing.

27:47

Yeah, that's a really good point. 'cause that's one more step

27:49

that's moving them from

27:51

this situation of loss and

27:51

cleaning that up to making

27:55

the next step of their life

27:55

neater, if that makes sense.

27:59

Yeah, absolutely. Giving them more peace of mind.

28:01

That's what you really wanna do. Yeah.

28:04

What's a common question

28:04

that people ask you when

28:07

you get them on the phone? I think the most common thing

28:09

we deal with is the last

28:13

payment of social Security. And it is so misunderstood

28:15

and so many families

28:19

miss out on that payment. So, Social Security

28:21

pays a month in arrears.

28:24

So the check they receive

28:24

in August is actually

28:26

July's payment, right? Okay. The check they'll receive in

28:27

recept September is actually

28:29

August payment, and people

28:29

don't really understand that.

28:33

So oftentimes what they'll

28:33

see is, you know, my

28:35

dad died September 1st. Social Security deposited

28:37

a check, and then they

28:40

pulled it back out. And I assume that's because

28:41

he died in September. He wasn't getting

28:43

this month check. In reality, he does get

28:45

that last check because it's

28:48

August payment and he lived

28:48

the entire month of August.

28:51

Different story if he

28:51

died like August 28th.

28:53

But the fact that he lived

28:53

till September 1st, he

28:56

does get that last payment. They see it pulled back.

28:59

So one of the things we're

28:59

dealing with over and over again

29:02

is explaining to the family,

29:02

no, you are due that payment.

29:05

And we can help 'em fill out the form. Super easy form it's called,

29:06

if you can just Google it's

29:10

Social Security form 1724

29:10

and getting that will help

29:14

you claim that last payment. They just need to know which

29:15

beneficiaries to pay it to.

29:18

So those simple things, I think

29:18

government benefits definitely

29:22

our number one source of

29:22

questions the most confusion

29:26

and the thing that we usually

29:26

start out with because families

29:28

are most stressed about it. Yeah. That's really

29:31

helpful information. And so if someone were like

29:33

you mentioned died on August

29:36

28th, would they be prorated

29:36

for that last month of August?

29:41

Unfortunately, no. They wouldn't be. Wow.

29:43

So it is the last

29:43

full month of life

29:46

Yep. Is what you're saying. Okay. But they would be able

29:48

to keep the check they received in August.

29:51

Sure. So depending on when they die

29:51

in the month and hey, they might

29:55

die August 15th, they might not

29:55

be getting their social security

29:58

check till the end of the month. They get that notification.

30:01

What? It's the same situation,

30:01

they thought that check gets

30:04

pulled back out or they never

30:04

received that August payment.

30:07

They assume that's okay, but

30:07

they do need to apply for it.

30:10

Okay. Yep. Okay. Good thing that

30:12

you clear that up. What's a case that you're

30:14

working on that you can share?

30:18

... there was one gentleman who

30:18

got spooked 'cause he thought

30:20

the banks were gonna steal

30:20

all his money and he went and

30:24

bought a bunch of coffee cans

30:24

and buried the equivalent of

30:27

about $50,000 in $500 increments

30:27

throughout his whole yard.

30:33

Wow. And so the family is digging

30:34

all these up and making sure

30:37

that's now taken care of. All sorts of crazy, funny

30:38

stories that we're dealing with.

30:41

And our goal is to meet the

30:41

family where they're at.

30:44

A good example of that is

30:44

during Covid, all the social

30:48

security offices shut down. And so we had a situation where

30:50

we had a woman who was helping

30:54

her husband out of the tub. She fell back and broke her hip.

30:58

So she goes into the

30:58

hospital, but it's covid

31:00

restrictions at the time, so

31:00

it's completely shut down.

31:03

She can't see anyone

31:03

or talk to anyone.

31:06

Her husband, who was already

31:06

at the end of life, ended up

31:09

passing away about a week later. So she can't have a funeral.

31:12

She can't see her family. It's a really sad situation.

31:15

They just did a direct

31:15

cremation from this like

31:17

direct cremation society, and

31:17

the people who took down the

31:20

information took it down wrong. And so when they reported

31:22

to Social Security, they

31:25

reported that she had

31:25

passed away, not him.

31:28

Oh no. They mixed the two

31:28

social security numbers. So when we call Social Security

31:31

to figure out her payments

31:34

and benefits, they're like we

31:34

have hers reported dead, but

31:38

then we have this other death

31:38

certificate coming from him,

31:40

so we're just gonna freeze

31:40

all the accounts right now.

31:43

Which was her only

31:43

source of payment.

31:46

I'm like no, that's not it. How do we clear this up?

31:48

Well, The policy is you gotta

31:48

come into the office with a

31:51

death certificate and an id. We can see you're alive.

31:54

He's dead and we'll make that note. But all social security offices

31:56

were closed, and so she has

32:00

just been through the ringer. She had just lost her husband.

32:03

She couldn't see her family. She's been in the hospital.

32:07

And now she lost her

32:07

only source of income

32:09

for who knows how long. You would think that Kathy,

32:11

who was helping her at the time

32:14

would be like, I'm so sorry. Let me know if there's

32:16

anything I can do. No, she didn't stop.

32:18

She just keeps on bugging Social security. She goes up and up, hits a wall.

32:22

She doesn't get any answers. The next thing I know

32:23

is I get a call from the

32:26

senator from Alaska's

32:26

office and they're like, we

32:31

have someone named Kathy. Does she work for you?

32:33

And I'm like, yes. She has been calling us nonstop.

32:36

What is going on? And I was like well, you have

32:37

one of your voters who has

32:41

this situation and she can't

32:41

get through Social Security.

32:43

We need your help. Next thing I know, social

32:44

Security admin calls me and

32:47

says, what can we do to help? Hey, you get a

32:49

politician involved. I guess it works.

32:52

Wow. But that, I think

32:53

that's an awesome story! That just shows the type of

32:54

people we hire, like Kathy,

32:57

who they're gonna meet the

32:57

family where they're at, figure

33:00

out what their needs are, and

33:00

then help 'em any possibly way

33:04

we can, including, I guess,

33:04

getting an act of Congress.

33:08

That's awesome. Yep. Yay, Kathy.

33:10

Yeah, she's amazing. That is awesome.

33:13

Okay. Awesome. Is there something, Matt that

33:15

that you would've liked me to

33:18

ask that you would've liked to

33:18

have talked about that's come

33:22

to mind since we've chatted? Yeah.

33:24

I think the one thing that I

33:24

would love to talk about are the

33:27

amazing people that work here.

33:30

So a. A quick story.

33:32

My wife got her master's

33:32

degree at age 22.

33:35

She got invited back

33:35

by the university to

33:38

become a full professor. So she's teaching classes.

33:41

She's younger than most

33:41

people including the

33:43

most of her students. She's doing this

33:44

research and everything. So we get married, we have

33:46

our daughter, Eliza, and she

33:50

calls me up one day and she

33:50

goes I'm gonna quit my job.

33:53

I was like, what? Are you kidding me?

33:56

You're not just putting a

33:56

job, you're losing a career.

33:59

And she's like, I don't care. I just wanna be a mom.

34:01

There's nothing else more important to me. And after that experience,

34:04

I started noticing how many

34:06

women sacrifice for caretaking.

34:10

Sometimes they had to work part-time. Sometimes they're able

34:11

to maintain a job, but it's just really hard.

34:14

Sometimes they do stay home

34:14

with their kids and oftentimes

34:17

when they go to reenter the

34:17

workforce, some employers

34:20

will not recognize that gap

34:20

in their resume and it's

34:23

hard for them to get a good

34:23

paying job that values them.

34:26

So I hate that idea. I think moms are just the bomb.

34:30

They're the best. And I went and interviewed

34:31

about 20 stay-at-home moms when

34:34

I was creating this company. And I said, if you were

34:35

to re-enter the workforce, what would that need

34:37

to look like for you? And they gave me all

34:39

their information and that became our employee manual.

34:43

And so my idea was that I could

34:43

help them get a better job by

34:48

getting them some experience,

34:48

building their resume and then

34:51

they could go off and get a

34:51

job at an insurance company.

34:53

You know, I've helped

34:53

1200 families deal with

34:55

your insurance company. I know all the forms, I know

34:56

all the processes, right?

34:59

But I was shocked in two ways.

35:01

One, they're not leaving. I thought they'd move.

35:05

They're all staying.. The other thing that

35:06

shocked me was that

35:09

became our secret sauce. There is something about these

35:11

women that they know how to

35:14

be caring but not patronizing.

35:18

Sometimes families just

35:18

need to be like, look, we

35:20

gotta get through this. You gotta buck up

35:20

and go through it. We gotta get it off

35:22

your plate because it will be better for you.

35:25

And there's, sometimes

35:25

if I say that, I might

35:28

just sound like a jerk. But they can say it in

35:29

such a loving, caring way.

35:32

And they truly do just love

35:32

and care for these families.

35:36

And so we'll have these funeral

35:36

homes who really care about

35:38

their community and they're

35:38

like, oh, if we send our

35:40

families to a third party, are

35:40

they not gonna be treated right?

35:45

And they get these women on the phone. They are so amazing with

35:47

the families that they'll

35:51

often go back and be like,

35:51

the best part of our service

35:53

was that aftercare service. We even offended our clients

35:55

because they're like, what mean?

35:58

They're the best part. We are the best part. But I work in a company

35:59

almost completely of women

36:03

and they are fantastic.

36:06

Wonderful. So smart, and do such a

36:07

good job for these families.

36:11

What do you call that person

36:11

that's working for you?

36:14

Are they a customer

36:14

representative?

36:17

Are they an agent? What do you call them? Estate specialist.

36:20

Okay. Estate specialist, yeah. Can be really trained because

36:22

we don't read off a script.

36:26

We have to know all those things. We have a checklist

36:27

that has to be covered. But the family's gonna be

36:30

jumping all over the place

36:32

and they have to be able to

36:32

jump with them and not read

36:34

a script or not need, like I,

36:34

they have to have a mile deep

36:38

of knowledge so they understand

36:38

exactly what that family's

36:40

asking. And then reign 'em back

36:41

into where they need to be.

36:43

Exactly. Yeah. Just like I'm sure

36:44

you do all the time.

36:47

Yeah. And I was a mom, so you know,

36:47

a stay home mom for a while.

36:50

So yes, I get it

36:50

on several levels.

36:53

So an estate specialist. Is assigned to the family and

36:55

then do they stick with that

36:58

or do they get a different

36:58

person every step of the way?

37:01

No, great question. They stick with one person

37:02

every once in a while.

37:04

They might need to have one

37:04

other per one other state

37:07

specialist step in who's maybe

37:07

more of an expert in, veterans

37:10

benefits or something like that. And so they'll tag team, but

37:11

they're always dealing with one

37:14

estate specialist through the

37:14

whole process and maybe someone

37:17

assisting on one or two items. Okay.

37:20

Yeah. Good deal. you? How do people that are listening

37:21

that maybe want this service

37:25

how do they say, sign me up.

37:27

Sure. So they can come to our website,

37:28

at full-circlecare.com we

37:34

right now don't market direct

37:34

to consumer because we have

37:38

really been focusing on our

37:38

partnerships with funeral

37:40

homes and hospices and law

37:40

firms across the state or

37:44

across the United States. But we plan on launching

37:45

a little bit more and

37:48

direct to consumer probably

37:48

the end of next year.

37:51

it's just me as a founder. I didn't get any

37:52

investor dollars. We've grown slowly,

37:54

but we don't, we can

37:56

grow the right way. So that's why it's

37:57

taken a little while to

37:59

go direct to consumer. And then a lot of the

38:01

funeral homes will provide

38:03

this for their families. So you can go to our website

38:04

sign up for it, or if you're a

38:07

business owner that wanted to

38:07

include this or gift the service

38:11

then we have a big discounted

38:11

fee that we can wholesale it to

38:14

you and white label even under

38:14

your brand name if we need to.

38:18

And so how can people find you? You mentioned the website

38:20

that will be in the, so

38:23

in the show notes also? Yep. And are you on social media at

38:27

all? Yep. Absolutely. So I can send you the links,

38:28

but we're on LinkedIn.

38:31

We're on Facebook and

38:31

Instagram and we give a lot

38:34

of state tips and tricks

38:34

on all those things as

38:36

well. Okay good deal. I follow you there.

38:39

So I have seen some of your stuff. Thank you.

38:41

So I can vouch for that. I can vouch for that.

38:44

Matt, thank you so much for your

38:44

time and I appreciate your heart

38:48

and your vision for what you're

38:48

doing for how you're helping

38:52

families in the community. I believe that when you change

38:53

the world for one person,

38:56

you change the world and then

38:56

that ripple effect goes out

39:00

to their families and their

39:00

communities and their neighbors.

39:03

It just makes. Whole place better.

39:06

And I like the Pollyanna

39:06

world that I live in.

39:09

I like helping people and

39:09

I like the the effects

39:12

that I see from that. And I know that the things

39:13

that you're doing are

39:15

having that same impact in. 37 states.

39:20

So I think that's that,

39:20

that's an awesome thing.

39:22

So I'm so was excited to

39:22

get you here and I'm excited

39:26

to share this episode

39:26

with others when it airs.

39:29

And so again, thank you

39:29

so much for being here.

39:32

Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. So thanks guys for

39:34

listening again today.

39:37

I so appreciate you coming. Please check the box that

39:38

you want to subscribe, the

39:41

little button so that you

39:41

don't miss another episode,

39:43

and we'll see you next time

39:43

on the Probate podcast.