0:22

Hi there. My name is Sherri Lund, and I'm

0:22

the host of the Probate Podcast.

0:25

I'm so glad that you're

0:25

here with me today.

0:28

I'm with Laura Bromlow. She is an elder law

0:29

attorney among other things.

0:33

We're gonna get into that in a little bit. You're gonna wanna have your pen

0:35

and paper handy, your favorite

0:38

beverage because we're gonna be

0:38

chatting today about elder law

0:41

and what those implications are,

0:41

why it's an important piece in

0:46

our healthcare system and in

0:46

our estate planning toolbox.

0:50

And we're gonna talk about

0:50

how that fits into people

0:53

that are on this podcast,

0:53

listening for probate issues.

0:57

Laura, it's gonna help you lay out a plan. So we're always interested in

0:59

making things smoother and more

1:02

efficient for the family that's

1:02

trying to tidy up the probate

1:05

and make it faster so they

1:05

can get back to living again.

1:08

So Laura, thank you so

1:08

much for joining me today.

1:11

Thanks Sherri for having me. I'm happy to be here.

1:15

Let me tell you a little bit about Laura. Laura Bromlow is a certified

1:17

elder law attorney through the

1:20

National Elder Law Foundation.

1:23

Her expertise includes

1:23

estate planning, elder law,

1:26

special needs planning,

1:26

trust administration,

1:29

probate and guardianship. Laura has a holistic and

1:31

family-centric approach.

1:35

She's also collaborative

1:35

with other professionals.

1:39

When that's appropriate,

1:39

Laura listens to her client.

1:42

She really sits with them to

1:42

hear what their values are and

1:46

what their wishes and priorities

1:46

are, and then she takes all

1:49

of that into consideration

1:49

when she drafts their plans.

1:53

Every person is different. Every estate plan is going

1:55

to be different, and needs

1:58

to be customized to the

1:58

person, and Laura wants to

2:01

make sure that's done well. Laura works with clients through

2:03

these emotional experiences.

2:06

So integrity and compassion

2:06

are key qualities that

2:10

she wants to exhibit. She works with

2:12

guardianship, probate, and trust administration.

2:15

Laura's been practicing

2:15

law since 1997 and she's

2:19

been in estate planning

2:19

and elder law since 2012.

2:23

She's active with her

2:23

law license in Texas and

2:26

California, and she's a member

2:26

of the Texas Bar College

2:30

when she's not spending time

2:30

working and with family,

2:33

she's on the tennis courts. So Laura, again, thank

2:36

you for joining me.

2:39

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Laura, if I met you at the park

2:42

and we were chatting, you'd

2:45

just gotten off the court and

2:45

you were hot and sweaty, and

2:48

I handed you a bottle of water

2:48

and said, Laura, how are you?

2:51

And tell me a little bit about you. What would you describe

2:53

yourself as a person?

2:56

I would say, Hey I'm a family person.

3:00

I'm all about my family

3:00

including my pets.

3:03

So I'm an animal lover too,

3:03

but I'm a mom of two kids, two

3:08

teenagers, one's in college

3:08

and one's in high school.

3:12

I've been married for

3:12

over 20 years now.

3:15

And I come from an extended

3:15

family so I'm an aunt.

3:19

I'm a daughter, I'm a sister.

3:23

All those roles that I play,

3:23

and I am an estate planning

3:27

attorney because of all

3:27

those roles that I play.

3:30

It has really become something

3:30

that's important to me is

3:33

to serve other families and

3:33

to help them communicate

3:37

and to avoid conflict. And so that's what

3:38

I do with my life. Yeah.

3:41

How did you get into, was

3:41

there someone that influenced

3:43

you towards law or how

3:43

did you get into this?

3:47

That's a fun, that's

3:47

a great question.

3:49

So the truth is I was working on

3:49

a cruise ship and I was lugging

3:54

up this heavy vacuum cleaner on

3:54

this small cruise ship, and it

3:59

was such labor intensive work.

4:02

I just stopped and I

4:02

said, I am not doing this.

4:06

And the first thing that came to mind was, I'm gonna go to law school.

4:09

And so I had my undergrad

4:09

degree in elementary education.

4:13

'cause I knew that I wanted to help, right? I wanted to be of service.

4:16

And so that's what was

4:16

always part of my heart ever

4:19

since being a little kid. And so law is just the way

4:21

that I found to do that.

4:26

You mentioned on your

4:26

bio and that I read

4:29

integrity and Compassion. I know it's important to

4:31

you because I've chatted

4:33

with you for the past year. And I know that it's really

4:35

important to your clients are

4:38

really important to you and you

4:38

go above and beyond to serve

4:41

them, more than what other peers

4:41

of yours would say is necessary.

4:45

Yeah, I know that about you. So what is it that

4:47

motivates you? What is it that

4:49

drives you to help? 'cause family is important,

4:51

but obviously your clients

4:54

are also important. Yeah. And I just approach my clients

4:56

like they are my family, right?

5:00

So I am either sitting

5:00

across from my sister or my

5:03

sister-in-law or my brother.

5:07

Every time I sit down with

5:07

a client like, this is what

5:09

I would do if I were you. Knowing what I know about

5:11

the law, having my experience

5:14

that I have, you being

5:14

the expert in your family.

5:17

But what really motivates me is

5:17

I come from a family of divorce.

5:22

My parents were divorced when I was four. I saw conflict galore

5:24

during my childhood.

5:29

In my family, my extended

5:29

family, there's so much conflict

5:33

that goes on in my extended

5:33

family that I've seen brothers

5:36

that don't talk, including in

5:36

my immediate family, not with

5:41

my kids, but my immediate family

5:41

growing up where some people

5:46

didn't talk to their siblings

5:46

and they ended up passing away.

5:51

One of the siblings ends up

5:51

passing away and they never

5:54

reconciled because of the lack

5:54

of communication, and it all

5:58

boils down to communication. Yeah. But the lack of planning and

6:00

therefore communication of

6:05

the parents and the result

6:05

that it had on these siblings

6:09

relationships was one of just

6:09

irreconcilable differences...

6:14

and how much of that can be avoided? If we..

6:16

It can totally be avoided! And the more communication

6:18

we do, communication is hard.

6:23

I'm still learning it and my

6:23

whole career is about it, and

6:27

I still find myself going. Oh, I don't think I

6:29

said that quite right.

6:31

I don't think the person

6:31

got what I meant from that!

6:34

But that's what we're trying to do and that's what I'm trying to pass on to these

6:36

families is to avoid that

6:39

for when something happens

6:39

to you, let's make sure that

6:42

everything's in place so that

6:42

your kids or your family can...

6:46

it can be easy and they

6:46

can be there to support

6:49

each other and be.. You can actually be a

6:50

conduit to bring those family

6:53

members together if you

6:53

plan well enough in advance.

6:57

Yeah. And I would say that's something

6:57

that's really important

7:00

to me in the work that I

7:00

do with families as well.

7:02

Being an objective person

7:02

outside of the emotions that

7:06

are going on in the history

7:06

and all the things that have

7:09

brought us to this point

7:09

together to be an outsider, to

7:12

ask questions, to give space,

7:12

to allow people to say what

7:15

they need to say or to speak

7:15

through, if that's necessary.

7:19

Yeah, everything can

7:19

change with language if

7:22

the communication is open. But as long as we're closed

7:23

off, it's just not possible.

7:27

So I totally agree

7:27

with you on that.

7:29

Would you tell me what elder

7:29

law is and how, if you would,

7:34

please define it in a way. You guys are great at defining

7:35

things in a legal way, but

7:39

if you could pretend you know

7:39

that we don't know what you're,

7:42

what you do, what is elder law?

7:44

Would you define that for me? Yeah.

7:47

So elder law, it sounds like

7:47

you work with old people.

7:51

You're right. That's true. We're working with people

7:52

who are facing maybe

7:56

a long-term care need.

7:59

When you talk about long-term

7:59

care, you're talking about

8:03

somebody who needs care,

8:03

who needs additional help

8:07

for day-to-day activities. So when you talk about long-term

8:08

care, you're a care provider

8:11

when your kids are little.. But also when your parents get

8:13

too old to care for themselves,

8:17

so that we're looking at that. We're looking at people who

8:18

are advanced in age or they

8:22

have special needs, and so

8:22

they need some sort of care.

8:26

There's a lot of things

8:26

that elder law can mean,

8:29

so it can mean helping

8:29

people with benefits.

8:32

Maybe either apply for

8:32

public needs based or

8:36

other public benefits. Would that be like Medicaid?

8:40

Medicaid, Medicare can

8:40

be part of elder law,

8:44

those kinds of things. SSI, SSDI... Okay.

8:47

These are all ...social security

8:49

you're talking about? Yep.

8:51

SSI is supplemental security

8:51

income, SSDI is Social

8:57

Security Disability Income.

8:59

One is a needs-based benefit,

8:59

but the point being that

9:02

there's lots of different

9:02

benefits, whether they're

9:05

governmental benefits or whether

9:05

they're private benefits.

9:08

So an elder law attorney

9:08

could help with those things.

9:11

They could help plan

9:11

for those things.

9:13

So one of the things you'll

9:13

hear about is Medicaid planning.

9:17

So if you're facing long-term

9:17

care where you might need

9:21

somebody to take care of you

9:21

over a long period of time

9:24

because now you're getting

9:24

advanced in age, or you have

9:27

a special need, we can look

9:27

to Medicaid possibly to pay

9:31

that long-term care bill.

9:34

And instead preserve the

9:34

assets that you do have and

9:37

let Medicaid pay for that bill.

9:39

But there might be some

9:39

planning that needs to go

9:42

on in order to do that. Another long-term care benefit

9:43

that a lot of people don't

9:46

know about for the elderly is

9:46

a veterans pension benefit.

9:50

So there might be VA benefits,

9:50

but the one in particular

9:54

that I'm familiar with is the

9:54

VA pension benefit, and that

9:58

can help for long-term care. So those are some things.

10:00

Other things that elder law

10:00

attorneys can do, maybe elder

10:04

abuse, I don't do that, but

10:04

there are attorneys out there

10:07

that handle abuse cases and

10:07

they will go after people

10:11

who have financially or

10:11

physically abused the elderly.

10:15

So the other area that can

10:15

include elder law would

10:18

be planning, so planning

10:18

for incapacity, right?

10:21

So when we talk about estate planning, we talk about incapacity planning,

10:23

but also death planning.

10:26

Well, here with elder law, we

10:26

need to think about planning

10:29

for medical decisions. Who's going to make them,

10:31

what ones do you wanna

10:33

make in advance of you

10:33

becoming incapacitated?

10:37

And maybe putting

10:37

financial powers of

10:40

attorney in place as well. So who's gonna make

10:41

decisions for you? Your finances if you

10:43

can no longer do it.

10:45

Right. Elder law can also include

10:46

areas where somebody has

10:50

not planned and now they

10:50

become incapacitated and

10:53

they need a guardianship. " A family member or a friend

10:55

steps forward and says, Amy

10:59

or whoever can't do this

10:59

for herself any longer.

11:02

I need to help her. Hey court, appoint

11:03

me as a guardian."

11:06

So that can be part

11:06

of elder law as well.

11:09

Lots of different areas. Lots of different areas.

11:13

Which is the one or two

11:13

that you primarily focus on?

11:17

So I focus on incapacity

11:17

planning, estate planning

11:21

encompasses that. And then I also can help with

11:22

the Medicaid or VA pension

11:27

planning, although I tend to

11:27

work with other colleagues

11:29

when it comes to those things. And then I also handle

11:31

probates or guardianships.

11:34

Okay. And can you give us

11:35

an idea of the type of

11:37

clients that you work with? What are some.

11:40

Yeah. Examples. Yeah. A lot of times I'll be

11:41

contacted by an adult child of

11:45

an elderly person or somebody

11:45

who's getting along in age.

11:49

So a lot of times this person

11:49

looks like, maybe my age and

11:53

they have children of their

11:53

own minor children, or college

11:57

age children or something. But then they've got parents

11:59

who are getting older.

12:01

Maybe one of them's died and

12:01

now they've got one parent

12:04

left that is falling down

12:04

or having health issues.

12:08

They're moving 'em into

12:08

their house, maybe.

12:11

They're moving 'em closer to their house, something like that.

12:14

Or they're trying to find

12:14

a long-term care facility

12:17

for this individual. And so they come to me

12:19

and they say, "oh my gosh.

12:21

I need to make sure that I've

12:21

got things in place for my

12:25

mom, like what happens??" Sometimes they'll call me

12:27

and they'll say, "oh my gosh.

12:29

I just went through this

12:29

probate process with my

12:31

mom and dad who just passed

12:31

away in the past five years,

12:35

and it was horrendous. Mom and dad did not plan,

12:36

and I wanna make sure that

12:39

doesn't happen for my kids. What can you help me do to

12:41

avoid that for my kids?"

12:45

So that, that's a common

12:45

theme in my practice.

12:48

Sometimes I'll be contacted-

12:48

I really love helping blended

12:52

families, so families who are on

12:52

their second or third marriage

12:56

and he brings in kids from a

12:56

previous marriage and she brings

13:00

in her own kids from another

13:00

relationship or something.

13:04

And now, We wanna make sure

13:04

that these kids that don't

13:07

necessarily know each other

13:07

for their life don't get along.

13:11

Hey, that was dad's money, why

13:11

are they getting part of it?

13:15

Or mom's money and so forth. We wanna make sure that we are

13:17

very clear, first of all, with

13:22

the clients, but then I always

13:22

offer a family meeting at the

13:26

end of the estate planning

13:26

process because I wanna make

13:30

sure everybody has sufficient

13:30

information to know, Hey, mom

13:33

and dad sat down and did a plan. Y'all may not like it,

13:35

but they did it and we

13:39

expect you to honor it. We can give as much information

13:41

as the clients want or don't

13:45

want, but there is a purpose

13:45

to even meeting for five

13:48

minutes and saying they did a

13:48

plan, you're gonna follow it.

13:51

Communication for those

13:51

blended families is huge.

13:55

Another population that I love

13:55

serving are families that have

13:59

individuals with a special

13:59

needs loved one in them.

14:03

For example, I met recently with

14:03

a client who has two children.

14:08

One of the children

14:08

is a typical child.

14:11

The other one is a

14:11

special needs individual.

14:15

And there's a lot of questions

14:15

that come up like that.

14:18

Do I have enough money to

14:18

take care of this individual

14:22

with special needs if

14:22

something happens to me?

14:25

So we're gonna talk about that

14:25

and what other professionals

14:27

we can get involved to

14:27

help them make sure that

14:29

they've got enough money. It might be life insurance

14:30

that we need, right? And so we're gonna also

14:33

say who's gonna be taking

14:36

care of this kid if

14:36

you're no longer around?

14:38

Who's gonna be in charge of their money if you're no longer around?

14:41

How are they gonna make sure that they continue to get their public benefits

14:43

that we talked about if

14:46

you do leave them money? So that's a special

14:47

needs stress. A lot of things that go

14:49

around that and I really enjoy

14:52

working with those families to

14:52

make sure that's all set up.

14:56

And then finally I work

14:56

a lot with families who

14:58

have minor children. And this has become a real

15:00

passion of mine because

15:03

I have kids, right? And so when I started

15:05

getting into this practice

15:08

area, I thought, oh my gosh,

15:08

there's so much that could

15:12

happen and that I need to

15:12

think about for my kids.

15:15

And what's interesting

15:15

is I thought about it...

15:18

I did what most

15:18

attorneys do for that.

15:20

Like I would do a guardianship

15:20

nomination for my child

15:23

or something like that. But then my daughter turned

15:24

14 and we were redoing our

15:28

estate plan, and I said to

15:28

her, you're old enough now

15:32

for me to ask you who would

15:32

you want to go live with?

15:36

Who would we want to finish

15:36

raising you if something

15:38

happened to mom and dad? And we're living in

15:39

Texas at this time. We have no family here.

15:43

All my family is

15:43

in Alabama or St.

15:46

Louis, right? We had no family here.

15:48

She goes, "oh my gosh, mom, who?

15:50

What would I do if you

15:50

guys didn't come home?

15:53

Well, I'd call the police" and

15:53

I go, oh my gosh, no police,

15:57

they'll put you in foster care. That's the last...

16:00

lemme get a plan in place. And so I came up with the

16:02

children's crisis plan,

16:04

which is super thorough, and

16:04

especially for those of us who

16:07

don't have family nearby, we

16:07

wanna have very clear plans

16:11

this child is to go to this

16:11

neighbor or this friend until

16:15

my mom or my sister can be here

16:15

to take care of him or her.

16:19

And so that's another thing that

16:19

I'm really passionate about.

16:23

That's awesome. So how do you see what you

16:24

do impacting the people that

16:28

are on this podcast that

16:28

are tuning in to hear about

16:31

probate and estate settling

16:31

because obviously you're

16:34

on the planning part of it. How do we dovetail together?

16:38

Yeah. So you know, first of all, I

16:38

do handle probate, and so I

16:42

do get those clients and what

16:42

I see in those clients whose

16:46

families, their loved one

16:46

didn't plan very well, right?

16:50

And they end up in a

16:50

probate situation and they

16:54

are overwhelmed because

16:54

they have a life, and now

16:58

they've got a new job. They've got basically

17:00

a new full-time job. They've gotta take care

17:02

of this estate of their

17:04

deceased loved one. And first of all, they're

17:06

like, Laura, help me

17:09

avoid this for myself. But then I'm like, you

17:10

need someone like Sherri

17:14

to come walk beside you... I can take care

17:15

of the legal work. I can file documents, my

17:17

paralegals and I, we get

17:20

together and we do all that

17:20

stuff, but they need someone

17:23

to come alongside them. And so that's where I would

17:25

think of you, Sherri, and I

17:27

would say, you know what, you

17:27

need somebody who is gonna help

17:31

you like, maybe they left a

17:31

house behind and there's stuff

17:35

in there and you don't know

17:35

what to do with it, sherri

17:38

knows the people that can

17:38

help come in and clear out the

17:41

house, make sure that all the

17:41

plumbing is done correctly and

17:45

get the right people in for

17:45

all of those types of things.

17:48

And so we definitely need each

17:48

other in this process because

17:53

my clients, it's not just about

17:53

the legal work, it's about all

17:57

the other stuff that they've

17:57

got- their bills that they might

18:00

have to go through, sorting

18:00

through the mail, figuring

18:03

out what is actually a bill

18:03

and what's an advertisement.

18:07

Sometimes my clients are

18:07

like, I don't know if I really

18:10

need to pay this or not. And I'm like, no, they

18:11

just got your name off

18:13

of a public listing

18:13

because probate is public.

18:17

And so then you start

18:17

getting these advertisements

18:19

and so that's how, yeah. Yeah.

18:22

Yeah. The other thing that I would

18:22

add to that that is more and

18:25

more evolving all the time is

18:25

when people are wanting to plan

18:29

that mom and dad need to go

18:29

into assisted living or some

18:32

sort of independent living

18:32

move out of the homestead.

18:36

And so that opens up

18:36

the conversation of we

18:38

need to plan an estate. We need to think about their

18:40

long-term care and then how are

18:43

we going to distribute, disperse

18:43

the things that are in the

18:46

house and get the collections

18:46

appraised and all of that stuff.

18:50

I see that really as an

18:50

opportunity to have the

18:54

time to process the estate.

18:56

Really, you're pre-settling

18:56

the estate and then mom and

18:59

dad can be a part of that

18:59

conversation, whoever is alive

19:03

and able can say, yeah, I would

19:03

like for that to go to the

19:06

disabled veterans or whatever. Very much yeah.

19:09

Yeah. So tell me, Laura, how

19:10

does elder law address

19:13

end of life decisions. What are some of the directives?

19:17

A will, is probably the

19:17

thing most people talk about.

19:20

Some people talk about

19:20

trusts, but there are some

19:22

other important end of

19:22

life documents that I'd

19:26

like for you to touch on. My estate plans are

19:28

very comprehensive.

19:32

There's lots of documents and

19:32

they all have a purpose, right?

19:37

So you've got your revocable

19:37

living trust or will, those

19:40

are the basis of your plan.

19:43

What the will is really dealing

19:43

with is, this is where I want

19:46

my stuff to go when I die. What I think is a bigger part

19:48

of this planning process is what

19:53

happens if I'm incapacitated? I'm still alive, I still

19:55

need to be taken care of.

19:58

My estate should still be

19:58

used for my benefit, but

20:02

I can no longer handle it

20:02

because, I'm incapacitated.

20:05

So we put into place a

20:05

revocable living trust.

20:08

Helps with that. ..Could you define

20:09

incapacitated for me?

20:13

Sure. And there's lots of

20:13

definitions for that, right?

20:16

There's the court definition,

20:16

the legal definition when

20:18

it comes to a guardianship. And then there's a definition

20:20

that you might put in

20:23

your legal documents. And they might be similar, but

20:24

the one for a guardianship,

20:28

where a court has to decide

20:28

whether you have capacity or

20:31

not, that's gonna be based on

20:31

case law and doctor's opinions.

20:36

So you're gonna have to

20:36

have testimony or legal

20:40

documentation from a doctor

20:40

saying that someone is

20:43

incapacitated in order to get

20:43

a guardianship through a court.

20:47

And are you talking

20:47

about mental capacity or

20:50

physical capacity or both? Mental.

20:53

Okay. Yeah, we're talking about

20:53

legal mental capacity to

20:57

make decisions for yourself. Okay. Yeah.

20:59

Okay. Great questions. And so this bigger piece

21:01

of the capacity: revocable

21:04

living trust, it takes a

21:04

place of a will and takes a

21:08

place of powers of attorney. And so that's one document and

21:09

we could talk about that for

21:13

a really long time, so I'm not

21:13

gonna get into that as much.

21:15

But just know that a revocable

21:15

living trust or a will

21:18

are your base of the plan.

21:20

And then you always need to have

21:20

a financial power of attorney.

21:24

This is who I'm appointing

21:24

to make decisions if

21:27

I'm incapacitated. And in that document you're

21:28

gonna say what incapacity is?

21:33

Okay. Or you're just gonna appoint

21:33

somebody immediately right away.

21:37

So one or the other. But, so you appoint agents and

21:38

you're gonna say, Hey, I want

21:42

my daughter, Katie to do it. And if Katie isn't able, then I

21:44

want Jack to be able to do it.

21:47

And if Jack can't do it, then I'm gonna have my cousin Susie do it.

21:51

And so you'd have an order,

21:51

a list of succession,

21:54

like if this person and.. So forth. So that's for financial.

21:57

So a financial, durable

21:57

power of attorney.

22:00

Then you also need a

22:00

medical power of attorney.

22:03

This is the person, and they might not be the same people, right?

22:06

This is the person I want making

22:06

medical decisions for me..

22:10

Right ...if I can't, so this would be,

22:11

I'm unable to speak more likely

22:16

than not, if I'm just outta my

22:16

mind, and I'm not making sense.

22:21

Then yes, they're gonna look to my agent under my medical power of attorney.

22:25

Okay. Same thing. I'm gonna have at least three

22:26

people listed if possible,

22:29

in case they can't reach one,

22:29

they'll go to the next one.

22:32

The other documents that I

22:32

would have in place would

22:35

be a HIPAA authorization. And a lot of times some

22:36

attorneys just put the

22:39

medical power of attorney

22:39

with a HIPAA authorization.

22:42

It's a short form, HIPAA

22:42

authorization all in one.

22:45

I like to have the medical

22:45

power of attorney with the

22:48

short HIPAA authorization,

22:48

but I also like to have a

22:50

separate HIPAA authorization

22:50

that allows the people that

22:54

I list in that document to go

22:54

talk to my doctors and view my

22:58

medical records if they want to.

23:00

And so I'm gonna name

23:00

all of my agents in that

23:03

separate HIPAA authorization. I'm gonna do a directive to

23:05

physicians to those clients who

23:08

want that, what the directive

23:08

to physician states is that,

23:12

"hey, in these situations

23:12

I do, or I do not want life

23:17

sustaining treatments." And so you're familiar

23:18

with the Terry Schiavo

23:21

case out of Florida? A long time ago maybe it's

23:23

been 20 or 30 years now.

23:28

But Terry Schiavo was a young

23:28

woman who was in a car accident.

23:32

She was married at the time

23:32

and she was left in a coma

23:35

on life sustaining treatment. Her husband and her parents

23:37

totally disagreed as to

23:40

whether she should still

23:40

be on life support or not.

23:43

Husband said, Nope, she

23:43

wouldn't wanna live like this.

23:46

Pull the plug. Parents said, keep her on it.

23:49

We see signs of life. This went to the Supreme

23:51

Court and about I think it

23:54

was 10 years later, maybe 15

23:54

years later, finally it was

23:59

decided by the Supreme Court

23:59

that the husband won and

24:03

that, so they pulled the plug. Wow.

24:06

A directive to physicians, an

24:06

advanced directive, could have

24:11

preserved that relationship.

24:13

It just almost brings me

24:13

to tears because they're

24:16

both grieving this woman. And they, all they had to do

24:18

was put this document in place.

24:21

So a directive to physicians

24:21

is also important.

24:24

I would do also

24:24

guardianship nominations

24:27

.. So what can happen is attorney in place, and

24:29

right now I'm healthy.

24:32

I'm totally with it in my

24:32

mind, and so I'm appointing my

24:35

husband as all these things. But when I develop dementia,

24:36

I become combative.

24:40

My personality totally changes

24:40

and I might say I'm withdrawing

24:44

that power of attorney

24:44

and you can't do anything

24:46

and I'm not incapacitated! And so I force a

24:48

guardianship on my husband.

24:53

So now he has to go to court

24:53

and now, so I put a guardianship

24:57

nomination as part of one of

24:57

the documents so that my husband

25:01

could take that to court and say, she's out of her mind. Here's, please appoint me

25:02

as guardian now because

25:05

she's trying to revoke all these powers of attorney. Yeah.

25:08

The other thing I do,

25:08

I like appointing an

25:10

agent for disposition of

25:10

remains instruction for

25:14

disposition of remains. And so part of what I, so I'll

25:15

do those little documents,

25:18

but part of what I don't do,

25:18

and I always advise my clients

25:21

to do is to meet with someone

25:21

to do an advance plan on.

25:26

What happens to their

25:26

body after they're gone?

25:28

Do they wanna be cremated? Where do they wanna be buried?

25:31

What kind of ceremony do they wanna have? They can set that all

25:33

up in advance as well.

25:36

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. You and I were talking

25:37

earlier, before we started

25:39

recording about the high

25:39

percentage of people that

25:43

plan on making a will. They know that they need to have

25:44

a plan in place, but sadly, only

25:49

about 34% of us actually do.

25:51

What are some cases that you

25:51

could describe for elder law

25:55

that that go into probate,

25:55

let's say, that don't have

25:59

a plan in place, just to

25:59

paint that picture of what

26:02

that could look like if we

26:02

don't have a plan in place?

26:05

Basically, if you don't have

26:05

a plan in place, the state

26:09

has one for you, right? So Texas statutes, we have

26:11

laws in place that lay out, so

26:16

this is when somebody dies, for

26:16

example, that when you die, it

26:21

depends on how many times you've

26:21

been married, what kids you

26:25

have from which marriage, and

26:25

it's not always intuitive where

26:29

the stuff is gonna go, where

26:29

your stuff is gonna go, right?

26:32

That is for sure. Now, if you're like, if you're

26:33

like me and you've been married

26:37

25 years and you only have

26:37

kids between you and your

26:41

spouse, it's gonna go to your

26:41

spouse, there's no issue there.

26:45

But if you're like my parents

26:45

and you were divorced and you

26:49

have his and her kids, and

26:49

you die, half of your stuff is

26:55

going to your spouse and half

26:55

of it's going to your kids.

26:58

And now your spouse who

26:58

may not get along with your

27:01

kids are gonna be fighting. They have to own this

27:03

house together or they have to, split this stuff.

27:07

It's not intuitive. It's not necessarily

27:08

what you would've wanted.

27:11

And so I see this a lot in

27:11

my planning side, where I'm

27:14

dealing with Blended families. And it's so interesting.

27:17

Sometimes the spouses have

27:17

totally different ideas of what

27:21

they would've wanted, and so

27:21

we've gotta talk through it.

27:23

It's like marriage counseling. But you've gotta

27:25

talk through it. And so I have seen this,

27:26

I've been contacted by an

27:30

adult child who this is

27:30

a common contact for me..

27:35

And it ends up usually being

27:35

someone that I don't end up

27:38

helping, but I may refer out,

27:38

but I will get contacted by

27:42

an adult child who says, mom

27:42

needs to do her estate plan.

27:47

And I go meet with mom,

27:47

and she is losing her

27:50

memory a little bit. She keeps telling the

27:52

same stories, but it's

27:55

very clear that she knows

27:55

what she wants to do.

27:58

However, it might be

27:58

because the daughter who

28:01

contacted me is close by.

28:03

And so that's reminding mom,

28:03

oh, this is what we said.

28:06

I.. Who knows, right? We don't know. Right?

28:09

And so I have to assess

28:09

the situation is does she

28:12

need a guardianship or

28:12

can we do some planning?

28:16

The problem comes in most of

28:16

the time where the daughter

28:19

that contacted me, which is

28:19

a case that recently came

28:22

up and her siblings do not

28:22

get along, and they're not

28:27

on the same page, right? And so then I'm really stuck

28:28

with what I can do to help

28:32

mom, because if the family

28:32

members aren't getting along,

28:35

I'm not gonna create more of

28:35

an issue for them by siding

28:38

with one of the kids and

28:38

helping mom do something

28:41

that kid wanted me to do. Yeah. I'm just not gonna get

28:43

involved with that. So I would refer them

28:45

to, maybe a mediator.

28:48

I would refer to a doctor. A therapist,

28:50

something like that.

28:52

Let's get some common

28:52

ground going here.

28:55

And unfortunately mom let

28:55

it go too long, and so

28:58

these families are divided. And so it causes really

29:00

big issues for the

29:03

estate down the line. Currently, while mom's alive,

29:04

like we don't know who she

29:08

would've wanted to live with,

29:08

we don't know how she would've

29:10

wanted to spend her money

29:10

or how she wanted to spend

29:13

the rest of her life if she

29:13

was in that state because she

29:17

didn't put it down in advance. And so I see that

29:18

a lot of times. Right.

29:21

So when you have someone,

29:21

whether it's a spouse I

29:25

know someone that's a spouse

29:25

of someone who's showing

29:27

signs of dementia now and.

29:30

They're starting to

29:30

question these long-term

29:33

situations or they have been

29:33

given a terminal illness.

29:37

They know that they qualify

29:37

for hospice, and so they wanna

29:40

put their affairs in order. What are some things that would

29:42

be helpful for them to have on

29:47

hand when they contact you and

29:47

when they're overwhelmed and

29:51

they want to get this stuff. They don't wanna talk about

29:52

this stuff at all, but they

29:55

know that they, it's better

29:55

to talk about it than not.

29:58

So to alleviate some of that

29:58

stress, what could they just

30:01

have nearby when they ring

30:01

you up or meet with you?

30:05

So the way I handle it is I

30:05

will take like a 15 minute call.

30:10

They don't need anything on hand. When I do this 15 minute call

30:12

and I explain my process,

30:15

but basically my process is

30:15

I send a questionnaire, and

30:19

on that questionnaire it's

30:19

gonna ask 'em for a list of

30:21

their assets, a list of their

30:21

family members, just so I

30:24

can get a basic idea of their

30:24

situation before we meet.

30:27

And then I have a list of priorities. What's most important to you,

30:29

what's not important to you,

30:32

and those kinds of things. So it gives me a really good

30:34

feel before I even walk into

30:36

the room with the person,

30:36

where they're coming from.

30:40

And then my whole process

30:40

is around helping them get

30:45

organized so that, it might

30:45

feel a little overwhelming.

30:50

It does, but I, it does. I can speak from experience.

30:53

.But I'm getting 'em to

30:53

the point where, oh, okay.

30:57

It is simpler than it feels.

31:00

At first it feels big, but

31:00

because of my process, my

31:04

hope is to make it to where

31:04

they go, oh, all of my assets

31:09

fit on that spreadsheet. I know what I've got, and

31:10

now the next person in

31:13

line knows what I've got. And I'm gonna leave that

31:15

for them in a place.

31:18

And so that's how I direct them. Everything is about helping them

31:20

get organized so that when it's

31:24

time for the agent to take over

31:24

or their executor or whatever

31:27

to take over, it's easy to find.

31:30

Yes. And I would say it's so

31:30

much better to be trying to

31:34

grapple with those things

31:34

when you're not in grief.

31:38

Yes. ...when you're not trying

31:38

to figure out how to

31:41

care for everything else. And you're still in shock

31:42

over what just transpired.

31:45

And to break these

31:45

up into smaller bits.

31:48

Yeah, it's so worth it. Yeah, for sure.

31:52

What is something that

31:52

if someone, let's say

31:55

a daughter right now is

31:55

listening and she's wondering

31:58

what to do for her mom. She's just not sure if she

31:59

should reach out to someone

32:02

now, or if she should give

32:02

it a little more time.

32:04

What would you say to

32:04

her, person to person,

32:08

to help her make her

32:08

decision and make it well?

32:12

Yeah, I, I think first of

32:12

all, that it's never too early

32:17

to do an estate plan, right? So having a conversation with

32:19

someone, it's never too soon.

32:22

It's never the wrong

32:22

time until it's too late.

32:25

I'm doing an estate plan

32:25

right now for my niece who is

32:29

getting ready to have her first

32:29

baby, and they're very young.

32:33

They don't even have any children. We're gonna do their plan

32:35

because it's not too soon.

32:38

It's not too soon. So what I would say to

32:39

that person is most estate

32:42

planning attorneys will do

32:42

a 15 minute call so you can

32:46

get to know them or something

32:46

like that ahead of time.

32:49

What is their process? Really get to understand

32:50

who the attorney is.

32:53

Are they like practicing in

32:53

all kinds of different areas?

32:56

And so they're doing a

32:56

little bit of divorce, here,

33:00

and they're doing some, I

33:00

don't know, criminal law

33:03

here and some elder law and

33:03

estate planning, or are they

33:07

devoted to this area of law? I think it makes a difference.

33:10

Okay. So you wanna know

33:11

about their practice. You wanna know if you're gonna

33:13

be comfortable talking to

33:16

this person, and you'll get

33:16

that from a 15 minute call.

33:19

Yeah, So I think that's

33:19

important to have it be somebody

33:23

that you can get along with. And I would just encourage them

33:25

to just reach out to someone to

33:28

have the initial consultation,

33:28

and that consultation is

33:31

usually free of charge. And you don't wanna waste

33:33

people's time or anything,

33:36

but at least have that 15

33:36

minute call to see if you're

33:40

ready to move forward. And for her mom, it's time.

33:45

It's just, it's never too early. Yeah, I don't know if that

33:46

answered your question, but No, I think that it did.

33:50

I think sometimes people

33:50

need a little reassurance.

33:53

They need to hear that

33:53

it's not too early, and I

33:55

find that with myself too. People may not be ready

33:57

to deal with probate.

33:59

They may not even wanna file a

33:59

petition or they don't even have

34:02

an attorney yet, and so they're

34:02

resistant to call, but I'm

34:06

telling them, a phone call will

34:06

just help you ask your questions

34:10

and process some things. You don't have to start

34:11

doing anything right now.

34:13

You can get an idea too,

34:13

when you're talking to a

34:16

professional, I think whatever

34:16

profession it is, whether

34:20

they're really looking out for

34:20

your interest or not, because

34:23

some people are just so dry

34:23

about what they do and they're

34:27

not giving you any outside of

34:27

the box options or thoughts.

34:32

Because I'm sitting

34:32

across from my brother

34:34

or sister-in-law when I'm

34:34

sitting down with my clients,

34:37

that's who they are to me... I'm gonna be looking at the

34:39

whole picture, and so you

34:41

wanna make sure you're dealing

34:41

with somebody who's looking

34:43

at everything and going,

34:43

oh, you could probably use

34:47

some support like Sherri!

34:50

You probably use one

34:50

accountant if you don't

34:53

have one, or whoever the

34:53

professional is, right.

34:56

And that's why I'm glad to know

34:56

you because I know that you

35:01

know a lot of those people. And so if it comes up and

35:03

I'm going, oh, sister, you

35:07

need something that I'm not

35:07

sure of the right person,

35:09

and I can get you in touch

35:09

with someone who does know

35:12

all of those people, right? Yeah.

35:15

Yeah, I think that's really

35:15

important and the and just

35:18

the relief that can come. The other thing I would say is

35:20

that when you're overwhelmed,

35:23

it's easy to feel desperate. It can feel like we're drowning

35:25

and drowning people are grabbing

35:29

at all kinds of things, and

35:29

they can make bad decisions and

35:32

decide to work with people that

35:32

are not in their best interest.

35:35

They're vulnerable and

35:35

they're trying to find help.

35:39

And so lining yourself up,

35:39

making those phone calls,

35:42

having those consultations with

35:42

people when you're not in that

35:45

desperate situation, you will be

35:45

able to know who you gel with,

35:49

who aligns with your values

35:49

and who you can work with.

35:53

Because you're gonna be in

35:53

this- the estate planning is

35:55

done over a period of time,

35:55

but not anything like probate.

35:59

So when you're in

35:59

probate, it's a long deal.

36:02

So you do wanna know who

36:02

you're working with, for sure.

36:04

\

36:04

So Laura, as we wrap up,

36:07

can get in touch with you. I know you're on LinkedIn.

36:10

Your website, you wanna

36:10

share your website.

36:12

Yeah. My website is bromlowlaw.com

36:13

and they can always email me.

36:27

I prefer email better than phone

36:27

because I can get you to the

36:30

right person at the right time. So email would be

36:31

[email protected].

36:35

Or my client services director

36:35

is [email protected].

36:40

And so those are the best

36:40

ways, but number 2 8 1 6 6

36:44

5 3 8 0 7 if they want it.

36:47

And then I'm also on Facebook. And I don't know if you know

36:48

about AVVO AVVO.com that's

36:53

another website where you

36:53

can find lots of attorneys.

36:56

I'm on there, so you know

36:56

I'm all over the internet.

37:00

Perfect. Sometimes people are listening

37:00

but we will also have it in the

37:03

show notes for people that want

37:03

to go back and access it there.

37:07

Perfect. Laura, is there anything as

37:08

we wrap up that you feel like

37:11

you is on your heart to say

37:11

that that maybe you didn't

37:14

get a chance to express? No, I'll probably just

37:16

reiterate probably something

37:19

that I've already touched

37:19

on, which is, you know, we

37:22

all have those people that

37:22

are most important to us.

37:26

We have that inner circle and

37:26

those people that are precious.

37:29

And when I think about like

37:29

my mom getting older, I just

37:32

had a really hard week and I

37:32

just dropped my daughter off

37:34

at college for the first time. And it was really hard.

37:37

I cried a lot. But the reason is because I

37:38

love her so much and I want

37:42

her life to be so beautiful,

37:42

and you get worried.

37:45

And when I think about

37:45

how I can leave behind an

37:50

intact relationship between

37:50

my son and daughter and

37:54

their extended family. If I can give them that gift by

37:56

planning ahead of time, that's

38:00

what my practice is all about. Like I wanna see them, I wanna

38:02

be able to look into the future

38:05

and go, oh, I see their two

38:05

families joining together at

38:09

the holidays and just, you know,

38:09

and I'm in their memory right

38:14

at this point, but I left them

38:14

with that beautiful relationship

38:18

because I didn't cause any extra

38:18

drama for them by not planning.

38:23

Yeah. That's right. That's a beautiful thought.

38:27

Yeah. Great. I'm glad that you were able to

38:28

express that 'cause I think it

38:30

was really lovely to end on. Thank you.

38:32

Thanks. So Laura, thank you

38:33

so much for your time. I know you are one

38:35

very busy person. I appreciate that you carved

38:37

out this time today and look

38:41

forward to sharing this with

38:41

our listeners on the podcast.

38:44

So thank you, Listener,

38:44

for coming on today

38:47

and for being here. All of Laura's information

38:49

will be in the show notes for

38:52

you and I just wish you well.

38:54

I hope that you hear

38:54

Laura and I both wish you

38:57

well and on your journey, if we can be of any

38:59

assistance to you, please

39:01

don't hesitate to reach out. Take care.

39:04

Thank you, Sherri.