0:21

Hi there, my name is Sherri Lund,

0:21

and this is the Probate Podcast.

0:24

I'm so glad that you're here today. I'm the founder of Willow Wood Solutions,

0:26

and I help reduce the overwhelm for

0:30

people when they're dealing with the

0:30

senior transition, whether it's what

0:34

to do with the stuff in the house,

0:34

how to downsize, how to consider

0:38

funding for long term care, and

0:38

then navigating probate afterwards.

0:43

I'm not an attorney, but I help with

0:43

the logistics that attorneys don't do.

0:47

So I'm really glad to have my

0:47

guest here today, Nick Dupre.

0:50

He is an attorney here in the

0:50

woodlands Nick and I've known each

0:53

other for a year and a half or so now.

0:56

And I'm just so excited to have him.

0:58

So, Nick, thanks so much for taking time

0:58

out of your day and meeting me here today.

1:04

No, thanks for having me. Always good to chat with you, Sherri.

1:06

I appreciate it. Yeah, it's always fun when we chat.

1:09

Okay, let me read a little

1:09

bit about Nick to you.

1:12

In 2004, Nick Dupre earned his Bachelor

1:12

of Arts degree in political science

1:17

from Trinity University, beautiful area.

1:20

In 2007, he earned his law degree

1:20

from Texas A& M School of Law, and

1:25

he spent over 10, over 10 years

1:25

at two premier boutique firms in

1:30

the Houston area and Woodlands. Before he and his business partner

1:33

opened up Stanfield and Dupre in 2017.

1:38

He's board certified in estate

1:38

planning and probates and he

1:42

concentrates on probate, estate and

1:42

gift tax planning, business planning,

1:46

taxation, asset protection and more.

1:49

Nick's a member of the Houston Business

1:49

Estate Planning Council and the Disability

1:54

and Elder Law Attorneys Association

1:54

and the Woodlands Kiwanis Club.

1:59

He's a native Houstonian married

1:59

to his lovely wife, Adrienne.

2:03

They have four children. Nick's an accomplished pianist and

2:04

he regularly competes in marathons

2:08

and other endurance events. He recently completed his third

2:10

full distance Ironman triathlon.

2:16

That's crazy. That's what my wife said.

2:19

So again, Nick, thanks so

2:19

much for, for meeting me here.

2:23

I I didn't realize that you play, I knew

2:23

that you were into endurance sports and

2:27

I knew that you had done one Ironman, but

2:27

I didn't know that you were a pianist.

2:32

So that's kind of neat. Yeah, no, so my mother started me

2:33

young and that's that's I went to

2:37

Trinity on a piano scholarship. Wow!

2:41

Yeah. That's really neat. So let's, let's say that you and I

2:42

were volunteering at a fundraiser

2:47

event in the woodland somewhere and

2:47

we were packing up, and I say, hey,

2:51

Nick, you seem like a nice guy. What do you do? If you didn't talk about law, if

2:53

you didn't talk about, like, work,

2:57

how would you answer that question? Well, that's a good question.

3:01

So, I always tell people in my

3:01

elevator speech meeting people is.

3:06

I am a Christian husband, father

3:06

and attorney in that order.

3:11

So that's kind of how I value things.

3:13

And from my perspective, if I'm doing

3:13

the top right, everything kind of falls

3:17

into place when those things start to

3:17

waver, not so good, but that's kind

3:21

of where my priorities are for sure. Yeah.

3:24

Yeah. And so how did you get into law and

3:25

specifically this aspect of law?

3:30

You mentioned the piano part. I was a, let's say, wayward,

3:31

starving artist on the path

3:37

to being a pianist in college. That's I was, I loved piano.

3:40

I've been playing it for

3:40

since I was 4 years old.

3:43

And I met somebody from the San Antonio

3:43

symphony, because they would give you

3:47

free tickets and I started talking

3:47

to them when they say, like, oh, no,

3:50

I, I sell insurance during the week. And I do this on the side.

3:53

I was like, oh. That does not sound exciting.

3:56

And then I met my, my chemical engineer

3:56

wife and I were dating and she made

4:01

kind of a passive comment of like, you

4:01

know, when are you going to choose a

4:04

real major besides piano, you know?

4:08

Oh, okay. So, I didn't do a real job and

4:09

honestly, I did not know at that point.

4:13

I was like, well, I guess I need to

4:13

figure stuff out because I love piano,

4:17

but I realized I didn't love it that

4:17

passionately to do in my entire life.

4:22

Do it for 50 a week. So just concentrated on a political

4:24

science and I would say, fell into law

4:28

school as a not sure what I want to

4:28

do, but I think this is a good path.

4:32

And then in law school, I will say, so

4:32

my mother died when I was in undergrad

4:37

and my dad died when I was in law school. And so I got a taste of the probate

4:40

estate planning part of it, and

4:45

that kind of piqued my interest

4:45

and realized in law school, not

4:48

many kids are focusing on that. I think, right?

4:51

So they're. Corporate work or heavy litigator,

4:52

I'm going to be just, you know, the

4:57

next best attorney in the world. Who's. But probably the state planning

4:59

is you take a course or 2 in law

5:02

school, but it's not highly focused

5:02

on after my dad's probate, which was.

5:08

Not a great probate. My mother's was seamless.

5:12

My dad's nobody was contesting, but

5:12

I think just the attorney and the

5:15

communication was a lot different. And so that kind of piqued my interest and

5:17

then I saw nobody else's focusing on this.

5:22

And that's for my personality, as I

5:22

started interviewing other attorneys,

5:26

I was like, this is a great,

5:26

I'm not going to be a litigator.

5:29

I don't have the propensity to argue for

5:29

the sake of arguing, but this kind of to

5:34

your point, I think you mentioned earlier,

5:34

just helping people through a time.

5:39

That seems overwhelming, but

5:39

the legal aspect of probate

5:42

to me is, is pretty simple. So that piqued my interest and then that's

5:44

all I've ever done since I graduated.

5:49

That's all so nice and straightforward.

5:51

But you also experienced it and so

5:51

you also know what you want to offer

5:55

your clients and help them avoid.

5:58

I think that helps a ton for sure.

6:00

I don't know that I would have

6:00

chosen that had that not happened.

6:03

I don't pretend to know what everybody's

6:03

going through, but I think having just

6:06

like any life experience, if you've got

6:06

a taste of it, you kind of can empathize

6:10

or sympathize a little bit better. And so did you and Brent know each other

6:12

in school or how did y'all connect?

6:17

My partner, Brent? No. So we actually, he went to

6:18

Nebraska and then he came down

6:23

his 2nd year of law school. And then he and I started working at I

6:25

got fired from my 1st law firm because

6:30

I didn't know how to practice law.

6:33

And then the 2nd firm that

6:33

hired me, he was already there.

6:37

And so we worked there for 10 years or

6:37

so, and then he went off to do something

6:42

by himself and then came back to the law. And then, as he was doing that,

6:45

I was like, hey, I'm leaving.

6:48

You think we could do something

6:48

together and it's been a great

6:51

and worked out really well. So, but, yeah, 15 years.

6:55

And 1 of the things that I think is unique

6:55

about your partnership and what you bring

7:00

to your clients is you are so relatable.

7:04

I mean, I get to talk to a lot of

7:04

attorneys and and I only work with

7:07

and refer to people that I know

7:07

and like, and talk to, but but you

7:12

guys have, you're very relational. you communicate.

7:17

Well, you're not, it's not

7:17

just transactional with you.

7:20

You're relational. And you do that with me, and I'm

7:22

sure you do that with your clients.

7:25

It just seems to be part of who

7:25

you are, what's important to you.

7:28

And so I remember when we 1st met and

7:28

I asked you if you're a litigator and

7:32

you were like, oh, no, that's not me.

7:35

And you just said that too. And it's good to know what you're not.

7:39

But also, because Brent is, you

7:39

know, you guys don't your clients

7:44

don't have to change midstream with

7:44

somebody, so they can start out with

7:49

you with the estate where you're

7:49

really getting to know them as people.

7:52

But if a problem comes up, and

7:52

they need to go to court to

7:55

argue something, you've got.. Yeah, absolutely.

7:58

And Brent does a phenomenal job

7:58

and he is a great litigator.

8:01

It's... Personality driven in terms of

8:02

where you end up in the law,

8:05

but I would agree with that. And I think that's part of the reason

8:06

we did end up kind of together is his

8:11

insight and value on, you know, if I'm

8:11

doing a probate or drafting a contract

8:15

his insight on, like, that's a great

8:15

clause or a great thing to put in there.

8:20

But I'll tell you, if I end up in the

8:20

lawsuit, I'm going to tear that apart.

8:24

So here's something you

8:24

need to think through.

8:26

Or when we're applying for a probate,

8:26

and we think there might be a contest,

8:30

but we're not sure, like, hey,

8:30

let's do this extra application to

8:34

kind of make that a little cleaner. So he's, you're right.

8:37

He's been invaluable. Yeah, so his foresight into what

8:39

potentially could be a problem can help

8:44

direct what you're doing in the present. For sure.

8:46

My job is a drafter and a state planner

8:46

is to kind of head as much that office.

8:50

I can. Right. But, you know, you never know what it's

8:51

going to look like in quarters, how it's

8:56

going to turn out when you litigate it. But Brent does because he's

8:57

done it a million times.

9:00

Yeah. So it's definitely helpful

9:00

to have that insight and just

9:03

just bounce ideas off of right. It's. Always harder to do it by yourself

9:07

for sure. Yeah. Y'all are very complimentary.

9:10

So talking about estate

9:10

plans hear a lot about wills.

9:15

If you talk to attorneys,

9:15

you'll hear a lot about trust.

9:17

Some attorneys are, like, all trusts.

9:20

Can you describe. What they are just just assume that people

9:22

are listening that don't know what they

9:25

are and what they are and how they differ

9:30

So will versus trust. Probably our most popular question.

9:33

I'll tell you and it's a good 1.

9:35

so I will start by telling you an

9:35

overall scheme of estate planning,

9:40

we're talking about, I break it up in

9:40

the boxes, but to me, we're talking

9:43

who gets my

9:43

stuff if I'm dead period, right?

9:48

That's that's what's your, what's

9:48

your world or living trust is for

9:52

just words on paper that tell us

9:52

where stuff goes, who's in charge.

9:56

The primary difference between

9:56

a will and a living trust

10:00

is I have to probate a will. And if you do it, right, I do not

10:02

have to probate a living trust, right?

10:05

The words on paper are exactly the same.

10:08

They both say all to my spouse, then to

10:08

my kids, or then to my kids and trust.

10:13

a will

10:13

is easier for me and harder for

10:18

my kids because they've got to

10:18

go change title and get my name

10:21

off of accounts on the back end. A trust is harder for me

10:23

and easier for my kids.

10:27

I'm doing I'm pre probating and doing all

10:27

the work now to get it into this trust.

10:32

And to your point, my opinion,

10:32

Texas is a will state.

10:36

Because probate is so simple, will drafted

10:36

will get you through probate pretty quick.

10:42

I'm always quick to tell clients

10:42

jokingly, but sort of not as...

10:46

attorneys get more money on trusts. So if somebody is just pumping a trust

10:48

down your throat, maybe make sure

10:53

we're doing it for the right reasons. But that's the general general concept.

10:57

Yeah, and I've, I've heard attorneys

10:57

say that everybody needs a trust and

11:00

I'm not sure that I agree with that. No, I mean, I think there's a

11:02

misconception of one probate is four

11:07

letter word to a lot of people, right? It's they've heard about it.

11:10

It's miserable. It's terrible. Texas probate is not that's where I start.

11:14

And if the sole reason is

11:14

probate avoidance, there are

11:18

other easier ways to get there. Trust are valuable, and that may

11:20

be the best option, but in my mind,

11:24

it's not trust 1st and then will me.

11:26

It's hey, it's will 1st. Do we need a reason to go to a trust?

11:30

Maybe, but let's make that analysis before

11:32

we jump to it. Before I got into this, I was 1 of

11:33

those who was like, you just hear

11:38

probably and you just go to nightmare. Like, they're just connected.

11:41

when I started really looking into this, I

11:41

thought, why is probate such a bad thing?

11:46

You're transferring ownership. It seems like.

11:49

the right thing to do. I think the reason probates gotten such

11:50

a bad name is because we put it off.

11:53

We don't plan. Well, and then these nightmares show up.

11:57

And in people's personalities, you

11:57

know, their best selves are not always.

12:02

That's that's true. And I think you hear about

12:03

the cases that go terribly.

12:08

I would say 98 percent of

12:08

probate is not contested.

12:12

But I'm not going to write a book about an

12:12

uncontested probate that lasted 30 days.

12:16

Right? So true. Right.

12:19

And that's the point of this podcast is

12:19

to educate people to motivate them to

12:24

make a plan so that the stress is off of

12:24

them and their families down the road.

12:29

And just doing my part here. So, do you have to have an

12:31

attorney to probate in Texas?

12:36

Most of the time you do. Some smaller counties will let

12:37

you do it without an attorney.

12:41

Most of the larger counties

12:41

here is Montgomery Fort Bend.

12:44

They're going to require you to

12:44

have an attorney to at least get

12:47

that initial application filed. You used to be able to do it without.

12:51

I think, since it's so procedure based.

12:55

If you're not an attorney, you forget

12:55

an affidavit or forget something silly,

12:59

and it kind of backlogs the court.

13:01

So they eventually said,

13:01

listen, we'd love to help you.

13:04

I know attorneys are expensive,

13:04

but if you're going to probate

13:06

here, you're going to have 1. And you really can't probate.

13:09

I mean, you don't get a choice. You have to probate in the county Where

13:11

the residents was, is that correct?

13:14

Where, where, where they resided or where

13:15

the bulk of their property is.

13:20

Okay, okay. Good to know.

13:22

And so a small estate affidavit, is

13:22

that something that attorney has to...

13:28

no. So that's that's 1 piece. So, shifting from kind of probate

13:29

alternatives in my opinion.

13:33

And when I say probate to me,

13:33

we are doing a full application.

13:36

We're getting somebody appointed as an executor. To your point.

13:40

Some of the states are small, or

13:40

we don't have many assets, or we

13:43

don't need a full administration. Small estate affidavit is 1 of those

13:46

things you can work with the court on to

13:50

apply yourself and get all the air signed. And you and you don't plan for those.

13:54

So, estate planning would involve

13:54

an attorney and with the thought

13:59

of either going to probate or

13:59

having a trust to avoid probate.

14:02

Yep, absolutely. Okay. Okay. So, if I have a will, can I avoid probate?

14:09

You can, so I, I explain to

14:09

people, that's a good question.

14:13

Common misconception, even sometimes among

14:13

my clients is, oh, now I have a will.

14:17

I don't have to go to probate

14:17

a will just makes probate

14:21

cleaner, faster, cheaper, right? It gets I explained to clients.

14:25

It's kind of like your easy tag. You don't have to sit in the line and

14:26

fumble with change and figure it out.

14:29

And who knows who's going to do what. We just got it.

14:32

You zip through. I don't have to go to a judge

14:34

and say, well, so and so died.

14:37

I'm not sure where they wanted their assets to go. And I don't know who they

14:39

wanted to be in charge. I can just show him the document and

14:41

say, hey, we just need to approve it.

14:44

Let's move on. Right. And so with a will comes an executor.

14:49

Yep. Do people do people refer to Executrix

14:50

anymore, or is just everybody an executor?

14:55

Most people say just say executor. Yeah, that's what I thought.

14:59

When I practiced, there were still

14:59

kind of a distinction, so I probably

15:02

still say Executrix sometimes, but

15:02

I would say it confuses my clients.

15:07

Yeah. Can you talk about independent

15:08

versus dependent executor?

15:13

Yeah, so, so in Texas, right, I mentioned

15:13

probate is pretty clean and pretty simple.

15:19

That is because we have the option of an

15:19

independent executor and all that means

15:24

is that I am independent of the court.

15:27

So, once I get appointed as

15:27

the executor, the court doesn't

15:31

want to hear from me anymore. All right. Their, their public policy is like,

15:33

listen, if the dead guy trusted

15:37

you, we're going to trust you. So just go do what you need to do.

15:40

Go transfer bank accounts, go sell

15:40

the house, do what you need to do.

15:43

A dependent administrator, if for some

15:43

reason we can't get appointed as an

15:48

independent, there's no will or people are

15:48

contesting the default option, like, in

15:54

most states is a dependent administrator.

15:57

And that's, that's the closest thing.

15:59

I think to the nightmare probate

15:59

that people talk about is the, I

16:03

am dependent on the court meeting. Every time I want to pay an expense

16:05

or sell a piece of property or

16:10

do anything with the estate. I've got to get permission from the court.

16:14

So that's where, yeah, you do end

16:14

up paying me to file a motion every

16:18

time we've got to sell real estate. Oh, we've got to pay this bill.

16:20

We've got to pay these fees. So you're, you're locked into

16:22

court a lot longer, right?

16:25

The goal is independent and that's

16:25

largely what a will kind of does

16:30

is all you have to put in that

16:30

document is I want independent

16:34

administration, those two words. And that's kind of fast tracks.

16:38

Yeah. So that's 1, that's a lot of people

16:38

don't understand if they're writing

16:42

their own when, when we when my

16:42

husband, so I was avoiding probate.

16:47

I was not probate. I was avoiding a plan.

16:50

I did not want to talk about a will.

16:52

I didn't want to talk about and

16:52

so eventually I came around and

16:57

my husband downloaded, you know,

16:57

a well from some online place.

17:02

And we got to the question do we want

17:02

an independent executor or dependent?

17:07

And we were like, I don't know. We'll let her choose.

17:09

And so we checked both boxes. No, she doesn't get to choose.

17:16

Right. Oh man, we've that's not there anymore.

17:21

But I do want to say, I think another

17:21

misconception is that if there's

17:25

an independent executor, that means

17:25

they get to do whatever they want.

17:29

That's not true. They still have to follow

17:30

what's in the will.

17:33

That's that's true. That's a good point. You're just independent of the court.

17:38

I mean, you're still within their

17:38

jurisdiction and if a beneficiary

17:40

doesn't like it, they can always go

17:40

back to the court and say, I don't

17:44

think they're doing the right thing. And you're right.

17:46

They don't have any discretion to. Not distribute this cash request

17:48

or not give the property to there's

17:52

still their primary fiduciary duty is

17:52

to carry out the decedent's intent.

17:58

Right? I still got to follow

17:59

those rules for sure.

18:02

Right? Good point. And it's not a democracy.

18:05

So, if there are several beneficiaries

18:05

listed in the will the executor

18:09

is the 1 that makes the cut

18:09

right that they make the call.

18:13

That's right. Yeah. And that's kind of the advantage right?

18:16

To me, or the purpose of having a

18:16

will or having something in place

18:19

is if I've got, I've got 4 kids,

18:19

you know, I died 10 years from now.

18:24

I don't need 4 votes and voices

18:24

in the room, especially to your

18:28

point, the stuff that you deal with. I mean, the personal property, the

18:29

personal stuff bank accounts are

18:33

easy to divide, but all that personal

18:33

stuff and like, I want this ring.

18:36

I want this necklace. The executives there to say,

18:38

okay, I gave you a shot, but

18:42

here's what's going to happen. You get this. You get this.

18:44

You get this period. Can you talk about what somebody

18:45

wants to think about when

18:49

they're choosing an executor? Yeah, that's a good question.

18:53

So I always tell people, I don't care

18:53

who you choose to make sure it is the

18:58

best fit for that position and being a

18:58

good fit for an executor thinking through

19:04

what they're going to have to do 1. I need you to be organized focus.

19:09

So somebody who's, you know, a

19:09

starving artist and, you know, I'll

19:13

get around to it when I can, not

19:13

the best person somebody who knows

19:17

how to manage personalities, right?

19:20

You're going to be, even if it's family,

19:20

you're going to be dealing with not

19:24

just personalities that you've dealt

19:24

with over the years, but grieving

19:27

personalities who are affecting you.

19:29

I tell people, whether you loved

19:29

your dad or hated your dad when

19:33

they pass away, there is a. Reaction emotionally, and you're

19:36

not you're not thinking as clearly

19:39

as you normally do somebody who

19:39

can compartmentalize a little bit.

19:43

Like, I'm grieving, but I need

19:43

there's a job that needs to be done.

19:46

And the biggest thing is, you've

19:46

got to be organized and accountable.

19:50

So everything that comes in and make

19:50

sure you're tracking it, in estates

19:55

that are contested, somebody's going to

19:55

ask, hey, what happened to this account?

19:58

Well, I know that there's a

19:58

5, 000 dollar charge here.

20:00

What was that about? Somebody who can stay focused

20:02

and organized, get the job done.

20:05

I tell people that, you know, it's

20:05

not like a trustee where, you know,

20:08

you're managing a trust long term. I don't need you to be super financially

20:10

savvy, but can you organize debts and

20:15

assets, pay the debts, manage your

20:15

siblings or whoever your beneficiaries

20:19

are, and then as promptly as we can, in my

20:19

mind, just get in and out of probate, get

20:25

the assets to everybody, somebody focused. Right.

20:29

Because life doesn't start just because,

20:29

I mean, stop, because probate is there.

20:32

You still have to go to soccer games. You still have to do all the things.

20:37

Yeah, that's exactly right. So I tell people it's kind of a, it's

20:39

a part time job for about 90 days.

20:44

90 days would be great. What can you do to make your

20:46

executors life easier when

20:49

they're trying to do all this? That's a great question and I wish

20:52

more clients listened to attorneys

20:56

or just thought practically about it. You know, in addition

20:59

to just having a will.

21:01

Or something a place that

21:01

tells us tells us where to go.

21:04

Just a, I call it a letter of instruction.

21:07

Some people call it an I love you letter. But the best thing that I can do for my

21:10

executor is just keep an updated list

21:14

of all of my assets where they are all

21:14

of my passwords all of my usernames and

21:21

ideally to me a 1 page piece of paper.

21:24

And if I have never met you in my life. And you appointed me as executor,

21:26

I can pick up that paper.

21:29

I know exactly where your bank accounts

21:29

are, what real estate you own, how

21:34

to log into your social media, how

21:34

to log into your bank accounts.

21:38

That's it. It's intimidating for people to kind

21:38

of put that on, on paper and stuff, but

21:42

it is going to make your executor's job

21:42

a million times easier and smoother.

21:48

And I'm not, I don't have to track down

21:48

credit reports or tax returns or figure

21:53

out, do you still have this policy? Do you still have this account?

21:56

And because as soon as somebody

21:56

passes away and the fisheries will be

22:01

asking questions and even in states

22:01

that are uncontested, there's always

22:05

a, a sentiment of, well, dad always

22:05

told me, or mom said, we had this

22:11

or what happened to this account. Mentally not thinking well, that

22:13

was 5 years ago and their brain.

22:16

It's. She just told me this, I just need them.

22:19

You can say it's secular. Here's. What there is, here's what

22:22

we're going to do exactly.

22:25

Don't have to spend the next 2

22:25

weeks calling around and figuring

22:29

out where the accounts are. It's yeah.

22:31

And it sounds like a simple kind

22:31

of silly thing, but thinking

22:36

practically and having experienced it.

22:39

When, when your loved one dies, you

22:39

are not thinking or wanting to think

22:44

about that stuff and you're not always

22:44

thinking practically, you know, it's the

22:49

clients always like, what should I do? Like, we'll call the credit Bureau or,

22:50

you know, look at check the mail and

22:56

then they're like, oh, I didn't think

22:56

about that because your dad just died.

23:01

You don't want them to have to focus

23:01

the whole point of all of this planning.

23:04

It's just to make that transition

23:04

as clean and smooth as possible.

23:08

So, to me, you can focus on the

23:08

more important things, which is

23:12

grieving your dad or your mom,

23:12

or just the kind of technical

23:16

transferring property material stuff.

23:19

Let's make that as clean as we can. Yeah,

23:22

you know, I've, I've done a lot of

23:22

work with grief and how it affects

23:26

us through the years and, and part

23:26

of it is we can't just jump from I'm

23:31

going to work my 8 to 5 job and then

23:31

I'm going to jump into doing what I

23:35

need to do it as an executor and prep. Like, when we're grieving, we need

23:36

time to just stare off in the ocean.

23:41

You know, we need time to just. I mean, we don't have to do anything

23:44

we need to make margin in our room

23:47

in our heads and in our hearts to

23:47

recalibrate what's just happened.

23:52

There's a change. And I think that's a great point.

23:54

And we, we, I don't say partner,

23:54

but we started kind of making

23:59

relationships with grief counselors

23:59

in the area for that reason.

24:02

I wish we'd done it sooner, but to

24:02

my point earlier, you know, we get a

24:05

lot of people are like, well, I just,

24:05

I didn't have a relationship with

24:08

him and I'm, I'm just the executive. Like, I know you didn't, but there's

24:09

still an emotional connection and whether

24:14

that's I love them, or I hated them. You've got to have time to

24:16

manage and work through that.

24:19

And people often underestimate what's

24:19

going on mentally, and I can do this

24:23

and this and this all at the same time. How much does probate cost Nick?

24:28

For uncontested? I would, I would tell you

24:29

there's probably a range of.

24:32

1500 to 3500, I would say most

24:32

good attorneys, in my opinion, if

24:38

it's uncontested, will flat fee it. I know the time frame.

24:41

I know the courts. I know what I need to file. If it's contested, or we think there's

24:44

going to be an issue, maybe you're

24:47

looking at more 5 to 10, 000, right?

24:50

You're going to do it hourly. But to my earlier point, I would say 97

24:51

to 98 percent of probates are uncontested

24:57

and you're just working through it. Just moving through it.

25:01

So, what about estate taxes? I've heard, you know, that's

25:03

another thing people talk about

25:06

death taxes and and I don't know

25:06

if that's true for Texas or not.

25:11

Can you talk about... yeah, good question.

25:14

Estate taxes have become. I would say less of an issue these

25:16

days, always good to issue spot, but the

25:21

estate taxes, essentially the federal

25:21

government taxing you on the privilege to

25:27

transfer property to your beneficiaries.

25:30

So, there's no, there's no state level tax

25:30

in Texas, a state tax or inheritance tax.

25:35

Each state is different. So, if you pass away somewhere else, you

25:37

got to make that examination, but there

25:40

is a federal estate tax that applies

25:40

across the board and the way it works is.

25:46

If I die and I own over a certain

25:46

value of property, I owe that tax.

25:52

If I own value of my estate is less

25:52

than that amount, I don't owe that tax

25:56

and I don't even have to file a return.

25:59

So, and it used to be, you know, that

25:59

number 20 years ago was 600, 000.

26:05

So, if I had a million dollar life

26:05

insurance policy, I was already over that

26:08

amount and I didn't have to plan for it. Today, it is 12.

26:13

9 million per person. So, it's.

26:16

Just skyrocketed over the years. That's why I say it's not as much

26:17

of an issue these days for most

26:21

people good to just issue spot and

26:21

make sure we don't have that issue.

26:25

But it's just not as much of

26:25

a planning point these days.

26:28

Right? So 1. so that makes me think that you know,

26:29

a lot of a lot of when people are

26:34

spewing out negative things about

26:34

probate and death taxes and, you know,

26:39

all the issues that they're having. And then you get all this

26:41

chatter from other people who

26:44

could live in other states. Who could have experienced

26:46

this 10 or 15 years ago, and

26:50

things have changed since then. And so some of the drama around this

26:52

season comes from getting bad information

26:57

from from outdated material or from

26:57

people that aren't pertinent to this.

27:02

To Texas and our area of Texas.

27:06

And so that's another reason why

27:06

I like this podcast, because it's

27:10

current, you guys, you're what

27:10

you're talking about is right now.

27:14

I love that. So, what's, can you share an unusual or

27:15

a complicated case that you've worked

27:20

on and give us an idea of, of how

27:20

y'all made a difference for a family?

27:25

You know, the one that comes to mind

27:26

immediately is we recently did a case.

27:32

It's probate where I'll tell

27:32

you it's probate related.

27:35

But they, this is very, very rare case.

27:39

I think even in for my experience

27:39

was a husband went missing and

27:47

the wife was left with, you

27:47

know, everything was in his name.

27:52

He made all the money. He was the CFO of the family

27:53

and they, they had video of

27:57

him in his truck driving down. I 45.

28:00

And then I lost track of him and he

28:00

is not you still technically missing.

28:05

It's been 4 years. Oh, wow. But the wife at that time was

28:07

not ready to, you know, you

28:11

can declare somebody deceased.

28:14

If we suspect foul play, or we haven't

28:14

had heard from him in a certain period

28:19

of time, but she was obviously, she's

28:19

not ready to say, yes, he's dead.

28:21

Let's go to probate. But 1 to your point on just keeping her

28:23

focused and honestly, being available.

28:29

I feel like half of my half of my

28:29

job is really just fielding phone

28:34

calls and meeting with people saying. You're doing fine.

28:37

You're doing the right thing. So I think we did.

28:39

I think we did a good job of that. In addition to finding a

28:41

creative solution that did not

28:45

involve tying her to the court.

28:48

For the next 10 years and having to

28:48

account to the court and getting a kind

28:53

of de facto power of attorney in place. He didn't have any play, you know,

28:55

anything in place that said, if I

28:59

dropped out of becoming incapacitated,

28:59

here's who I want to be in charge.

29:03

You know, he didn't have the

29:03

will that said, if I'm dead,

29:05

here's who gets my stuff. He had a power of attorney from

29:07

another state that was 15 years old.

29:11

That appointed somebody who had

29:11

passed away, so the default would

29:16

be well, we've got to get some

29:16

kind of guardianship in place.

29:19

But, I mean, how do you do that?

29:21

When the person is not technically gone?

29:24

We don't even know where they are. Right, so I, I was part of our firm,

29:25

not necessarily me, but our firm

29:30

as a whole kind of figuring out a.

29:33

Creative solution to balance

29:33

the, hey, you can't just wait

29:38

and sit for him to come back. We don't know where he is.

29:41

I don't know why he did what he did

29:41

or what happened, but we've got to

29:44

slowly move forward without pulling

29:44

her into a litigation court process.

29:51

And so she's got what she needs

29:51

in terms of control of assets.

29:56

She can declare him

29:56

deceased when she's ready.

29:59

But I thought 1, it was

29:59

unique case, even for us.

30:03

And, you know, kind of tested my

30:03

legal knowledge and theories of.

30:07

Okay, well, he is not dead. He's not technically incapacitated.

30:11

We don't really know what's going on. Right.

30:13

So how strange it

30:15

was. It was, fun is not the right word.

30:18

I, I enjoyed being able to help her

30:18

challenge and think outside the box.

30:21

Yeah, for sure. The challenge was, yep. Yeah, a lot of puzzle pieces there.

30:26

You guys had to figure out what

30:26

to put where and how to benefit

30:30

without looking without having

30:30

a live to look at the picture.

30:33

Well, that's that's right. And I think people underestimate the

30:34

3rd parties involved in any estate,

30:39

the banks, the title companies.

30:42

You know, that's that's kind

30:42

of who you're dealing with.

30:45

Right with walls and powers

30:45

of attorney, it's I have it on

30:48

paper, but will they accept it? How do I get it passed an underwriter in

30:49

New York or a title company in Florida?

30:54

And so it was a fun challenge certainly

30:54

unique and they're always kind of the.

31:00

You know, contested matters or a child

31:00

who shows up that nobody knows about the

31:05

work through, but that was a, it's an

31:05

interesting case that came up recently.

31:08

That is really interesting. So, 1 of my goals with the podcast

31:11

here, you know, is to educate on

31:15

the terms and the procedures of

31:15

estate planning and policies so

31:20

that people can know what to expect.

31:22

And we take some of the mystery, some

31:22

of the stigma, maybe away from these

31:28

topics that are so difficult for us that

31:28

a lot of us want to avoid myself included

31:32

before and now look what I'm doing.

31:35

But, you know, how do

31:35

you see from your seat?

31:39

How do you see? What I do as helping your clients, how

31:41

can we talk a little bit about that?

31:48

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I mentioned it

31:49

before the podcast started,

31:51

but you do a phenomenal job. So I don't know how well you take

31:54

compliments, but with all of our

31:57

clients, I'm thrilled to have you as

31:57

a resource in a, in a industry that I

32:03

don't know how many people do that, or

32:03

if they do, they overcharge for it, in

32:06

my opinion, but I say, I tell people

32:06

I do the legal technical side of...

32:12

I'm going to get the assets transferred. I'm going to work through court.

32:15

Let me do all that. Talk to the judges and other attorneys.

32:18

We will get all the technical title

32:18

stuff done as, you know, that is

32:23

a, in my mind, that's kind of a

32:23

small part of the probate process.

32:27

There's also the grieving

32:27

and all the other assets and

32:30

property and moving parts. Could I do that?

32:33

Probably. Do you want to pay me by the

32:34

hour to come to your family?

32:37

Probably not. But so all of that, I call it probably

32:39

the dirty work, the nitty gritty, the

32:45

walking, you know, they'll come to my

32:45

office for an hour, probate court in an

32:50

hour, there are 23 other hours in the day,

32:50

and there's lots of other stuff to do.

32:55

And that's where, to me, you are

32:55

coming in as an invaluable resource

33:00

just to walk them through, I think

33:00

the case you worked on recently.

33:04

You're a hoarder and what do I do with

33:04

this house to I live out of state.

33:10

I've got property here. What am I supposed to

33:11

do with this property?

33:13

The personal, I don't want it. How do I contact to get rid of.

33:17

This table, all of that kind of

33:17

coordinating and negotiating and kind of.

33:22

I think of you as so you're kind of

33:22

the general contractor of the probate.

33:26

You're kind of like,

33:26

hey, we have this asset.

33:28

Okay. Let me find the best way to do that. So you don't have to think about it.

33:32

You can just grieve talk to your family

33:32

and I will take care of all that stuff.

33:37

That's pretty, pretty

33:37

difficult to work through.

33:39

Yeah, thank you. Nick. I appreciate that.

33:42

And I appreciate the feedback. It's also been really nice to

33:44

work with you and your team.

33:48

To know that I can, I can encourage

33:48

the people that I'm working with.

33:53

And point them back to, because

33:53

I know that I know how you guys

33:56

are going to follow through. So it is nice to work with.

33:59

with your team as well. What's it like when somebody

34:01

calls to set up a first, you know,

34:05

let's say, let's they're finally

34:05

agreeing to do an estate plan.

34:10

So let's talk about what their first

34:10

consultation would be with you and then

34:16

follow ups to that and maybe how long

34:16

it would take before they would actually

34:19

have everything signed and notarized. Yeah, that's a good question.

34:23

So leading up to the console, we try

34:23

to just tag them with kind of an intake

34:28

form, not necessarily for all information,

34:28

but just to get them thinking about.

34:34

These topics, and I tell people, I don't,

34:34

you don't need to fill that thing out.

34:37

But if you walk in, not thinking

34:37

about any of this, it's not going

34:40

to be a productive conversation. Right? Right.

34:43

But just getting them thinking through. Okay. Who are my beneficiaries?

34:46

Who don't want to be in charge? Who's the guardian? So, that goes out probably a week

34:48

before the meeting meeting itself

34:52

is probably an hour or less. And I just, I walked them through the

34:54

buckets of, hey, who gets your stuff?

34:58

What if you're incapacitated? Do we have any asset protection concerns?

35:03

And for most people, at the end of that,

35:03

my goal at the end of that meeting is

35:06

to give them a recommendation of a,

35:06

you need a will as an attorney or, you

35:12

know, what you probably do need a living

35:12

trust to kind of consolidate prevent

35:16

contests, give them a flat fee in writing.

35:20

I'll send a follow up email that same day. Again, people hearing this stuff

35:22

for the 1st time will sometimes get

35:26

overwhelmed or just forget as soon as

35:26

they walk out the door to your point.

35:29

They have thought about this

35:29

for 3 to 5 years, you know,

35:31

just now kind of getting to it.

35:34

So same day follow up. And then we have a 1 week, 2

35:36

week, full week touch process.

35:42

You know, it's kind of keeping them. We have found statistically, if.

35:46

I can get you in drafted and signed within

35:46

30, 45 days, you will have an estate

35:52

plan, and it's going to be great past that

35:52

you're going to fall back mentally into.

35:57

I don't want to deal

35:57

with this in their mind.

36:00

I checked the box. Well, I got to the next step.

36:02

I talked to an attorney. Like, and I have, so it's not depressing,

36:03

but frustrating to me to see the plans

36:08

that we have drafted and ready to sign.

36:11

And they just can't

36:11

come in for 15 minutes.

36:14

They get it executed even after like,

36:14

hey, you know, this is not in place yet.

36:18

You've got to get it executed,

36:18

but that's our process.

36:21

It's always on a flat fee. I think that.

36:24

The max we charge is probably 2000 bucks.

36:26

Most good estate plans

36:26

are probably 750 ish.

36:30

And, and does your does your plan include

36:30

the powers of attorney and those other?

36:37

Yeah, so any basic plan to me is wills, powers

36:38

of attorney, guardian, transfer

36:43

on death deed if you need it. Disposition of remains if you

36:45

have specific cremation requests.

36:50

Yeah, I call it any,

36:50

any ancillary document.

36:53

We're happy to include. And the changes within 5

36:54

years are complimentary.

36:57

I think people get not intimidated,

36:57

but they don't want to think about it.

37:03

So, even if. You know, there's, I want

37:04

to change my executor.

37:06

It's like, oh, it's going to be another fee or I don't want to think about this again.

37:10

So we'll touch base with clients once

37:10

a year, just with the letter or phone

37:13

call and say, hey, anything changed?

37:16

Do we need to think about it again? Just going to be as proactive as we can.

37:20

I can't force you to come in. But, you know, I think most people,

37:22

the biggest compliment I always get

37:26

is, oh, that was easier than I thought. Like, oh, I wish I'd done this sooner.

37:29

Like, it really is just super

37:29

simple to put down on paper

37:34

because most people know. What they want to happen, I

37:35

think what's going to happen.

37:38

So, yeah, yeah, I think you said something.

37:41

That's really important to just

37:41

kind of highlight and that is,

37:45

you've got all this drafted, but

37:45

it's not executed until it's signed.

37:50

Yeah, nothing, nothing, of course, until

37:51

you actually sign on the deadline.

37:56

So, Wow, that's a, that's a

37:57

big, that's a big thing.

38:02

That's a big, big thing because.

38:05

That means there is no

38:05

will until it's executed.

38:09

That's exactly right. I cannot I cannot take an unsigned will to

38:10

a judge and say, of course, this intent.

38:16

I know they want it to unfortunately.

38:19

Right. And I don't, I don't think it's, I

38:20

thought 1 or 2 clients who actually think

38:23

like, oh, I thought it was in force. Most people are just like,

38:25

well, that was the next step.

38:28

I'll get to signing at some point. So, I think we annoy some of our clients

38:31

with our phone calls and emails, but it's.

38:35

It's important to me to,

38:35

I mean, I'd rather you.

38:39

Some people are like, well, I haven't paid yet. But then don't pay . Come in and sign it.

38:43

I'd rather you have something in place

38:43

so you're not having, your kids are

38:46

gonna have to pay me more on the backend. Right.

38:48

If you don't go something on paper.

38:51

Oh man, you've gone through all of

38:51

this, which is the hardest part.

38:54

That's exactly. Just come in and sign it. Yes. And really it's only hard.

38:58

It was hard for me because I had

38:58

to stop and think about who I

39:01

wanted to do what, and that was

39:01

it's not hard, like manual labor.

39:05

It's just. Stuff I don't want to think about.

39:08

So. If someone is listening and they're

39:09

on the fence about making a plan for

39:13

whatever reason, maybe they're in

39:13

their thirties and they're thinking,

39:16

I'm too young you know, I'm too

39:16

busy or they're in their fifties and

39:22

they're just, you know, whatever. What would you say to them to

39:25

encourage them to get off the fence?

39:29

And go ahead and move

39:29

forward with that plan.

39:33

Well, I will say it's not it's not

39:33

how much you have is what you have.

39:37

That's a comment. Like, I don't have enough of a state.

39:39

If you've got a house and a bank account,

39:39

you need something on paper, right?

39:42

If you've got a bank account,

39:42

a car, something on paper.

39:45

So, that's not and to to a point

39:45

earlier, it's, it is probably the

39:49

easiest thing that you will ever do. We can a good attorney to me

39:51

will help you think through.

39:56

Right away, we kind of. Intimidating aspect of either meeting

39:58

with an attorney thinking about

40:02

what if I dropped dead just making

40:02

it easier for your beneficiaries.

40:06

I hit home with a lot of

40:06

people when I talk about,

40:09

like, you, you want this to be. Easier for you and harder for your

40:11

beneficiaries, or do you want it

40:15

to be as easy as possible for. Your kids, your spouse, whoever you're

40:17

leading it to most people, I don't

40:21

want to leave a big burden then. Get something on paper that eases that

40:23

burden and makes it a little sooner to me.

40:29

There's no, I don't think you

40:29

could do in a state plan too soon.

40:33

Right? You're 20, Most people don't do it

40:34

till a 50-60 close to retirement.

40:39

I would love it. If people did it 25, 28, 30.

40:44

Right. And you, you just made another

40:45

good point to about if you've

40:48

got a car and a bank account. So, even if you have an apartment, if you

40:50

don't have a house or property, you still

40:56

have an estate and you still want to. You still have stuff that

40:59

you need to pass down.

41:01

So, somebody's got to

41:01

close out that stuff.

41:05

Right, right. Talk to the apartment landlord

41:06

trying to deal with the vehicle or

41:09

the Chase Bank of America, whatever.

41:12

Right. Nick, how can people connect with you?

41:14

Where do they find you? Website is best I'm always

41:16

probably most responsive via email.

41:19

I know that we have a LinkedIn that.

41:22

My staff is fantastic about

41:22

updating and I never seen in my

41:25

life, but I know people use it.

41:28

I think we've got a Facebook also, but

41:28

website and email is probably the best.

41:33

Okay, and that's Stanfield

41:33

and Dupre dot com

41:37

stanfielddupre.Com. That's right. All right.

41:40

Oh, I wanted to say that I

41:40

read an article that you wrote.

41:43

And you said something like you

41:43

need people every step of the way.

41:47

It's okay to ask for help. And I thought that that was really.

41:51

Really important to to underline Nick,

41:51

is there something that you feel like we

41:57

should have talked about and maybe didn't.

42:00

Is there something about the

42:00

state planning or your firm that

42:04

you feel like needs to be said? No, I don't I don't think so.

42:08

The most important part we

42:08

hit on earlier was just.

42:10

What I wish that most people would do

42:10

was have that love letter, letter of

42:16

instruction to my executor that makes it

42:16

easy for me to find assets, log into bank

42:22

accounts and Facebook and stuff like that. But that's a good way to end it.

42:25

Yeah, I think it's, I would encourage

42:25

people, whether estate planning or

42:29

probate, it is okay to ask for help.

42:32

And I, you know, in my mind, having

42:32

something rather than nothing is great.

42:37

I don't mind do it yourself

42:37

wills or something.

42:39

Let me let an attorney take a peek at it. 75 percent of people don't have

42:41

any estate planning or that's the

42:45

statistic that comes out every year. So, but everybody has

42:47

kids assets bank accounts.

42:51

Right? So. I would love it if I had less work to do,

42:52

meaning more people had an estate plan.

42:57

So, right? Right. For sure.

43:00

Nick, thank you so much

43:00

for your time today.

43:02

Again, I enjoy time with you.

43:05

And yeah, I appreciate your help

43:05

in doing this and we will see you

43:10

around the woodland somewhere. Thank you so much.