0:02

Hey, everyone. Robby here with Rob

0:05

Dee, and you are listening to

0:07

the property podcast a very

0:09

special episode of the property podcast

0:11

because we have reached a milestone of

0:14

episode five hundred.

0:22

Yes, welcome to episode five hundred of

0:24

the property podcast. This is the of

0:26

our week where we take time out from advising a multimillion pound

0:28

property fund and putting together hundreds of deals

0:31

per year. And as we have done every week

0:33

for five hundred weeks in a row now, brought you

0:35

some of the knowledge that we've gained along the way

0:37

for free. So to celebrate

0:39

making it to this very cool number,

0:41

We recorded this episode live on YouTube

0:44

with hundreds of people participating. Thank

0:46

you so much for everyone who came along and asked

0:48

questions and made that so fun. In

0:50

this episode, you're gonna hear an edited version of

0:52

that conversation where we talk about the five

0:54

biggest lessons we've learned from doing this podcast

0:56

for a decade. We answer questions about the podcast

0:59

itself and how it's put together, and

1:01

we answer questions about what is happening in

1:03

the property market right now. Now you

1:05

are obviously listening to the audio

1:07

version of this podcast, but if you want

1:09

to see us and watch

1:11

this episode, you can do. You can find

1:13

it on our YouTube channel by Searching Property

1:16

Hub UK. Make sure you subscribe

1:18

while you're there. And we also know that

1:20

so much is happening in the market right now.

1:22

So if you want to keep up to date with what's

1:24

happening, we have a video on the thumbnail

1:26

at least called what's happening, and it's a market

1:29

update where we talk about mortgages, interest rates,

1:31

and house prices. while you're over on YouTube,

1:33

check that out. And next week, we'll

1:35

be back on the part with answering the big

1:37

questions that came up from

1:40

the live episode and from webinars

1:42

we've done recently. So make sure you join

1:44

us for next week. But without further ado, let's

1:46

get to episode five hundred live.

1:50

Alright. We are alive. What else is?

1:52

Here we go.

1:54

Right.

1:55

Let's kick off, Rob, with

1:57

some slides and some content because that's

1:59

what people are here

1:59

for. Do you wanna

2:00

give a bit of an overview of what we're gonna do

2:03

on this very, very special live

2:05

episode? And actually, I've got

2:07

some bubbles. It is water because I

2:09

plan on going to the gym later, but

2:13

I I thought I'd celebrate anyway. So

2:15

Cheers, Rob. Happy five hundred episodes.

2:18

Cool. So so first of

2:20

all, we're gonna do a very quick little

2:22

bit of five lessons that we've learned from putting out

2:24

five hundred episodes of the property podcast over

2:26

the last nearly ten years. We're then gonna

2:28

take your questions, and we're gonna take

2:30

it in two different forms. So we're going to start

2:33

with questions about the podcast and anything you

2:35

might be curious about there. And then we'll broaden out

2:37

and talk about questions about the property market

2:39

in general. So do Both of those

2:41

rounds of questions. So,

2:44

Rob, five lessons from five

2:46

hundred episodes. So

2:48

the first lesson for me

2:50

is don't go Whatever

2:52

you do with the podcast. I

2:54

I don't think it's any coincidence that we both had

2:56

our own podcasts. and we've had them sporadically

2:59

in the early years. And they

3:01

didn't last, and they didn't last because

3:04

it relied on us and our motivation and everything

3:06

to turn up. but the property podcast has

3:08

because we're accountable to each other. And

3:10

so we have to turn up every time or

3:12

it's a bit awkward. So that is what

3:14

is made meant that we haven't missed a single

3:16

week. And I'm sure

3:18

that we could apply this to so many other areas of

3:20

life and property as well. Our accountability.

3:23

It's a bit of a recent one for me.

3:25

Because, yes,

3:28

we'd kept each other accountable in

3:30

the pause or on the pause. But it's

3:32

kind of without realizing, and then realizing

3:34

in in business as well, like, those being

3:36

cofounders for the businesses that we have

3:38

together. Again, that accountability to not

3:40

do the one down. I think it's definitely pushed do our

3:42

best in in business. But then

3:45

you started applying it in in

3:47

fitness as well, and then I copied you

3:49

with, like, with most things. So I

3:51

applied it with business. I mean, recently, just

3:53

as an example, I've I've peloton

3:56

bike, and I kind of gone off the wagon with it,

3:58

hadn't used it in ages. So I started to

4:00

think accountability challenge with another

4:02

Rob in our business Rob begins. And

4:04

we said, Let's see how

4:06

many days in a row we can go, like

4:08

streaking and who goes along this wins,

4:10

never lose as far as the other lunch. So, like,

4:12

true accountability. And, you know,

4:14

we're multiple days in now, and and

4:17

some days have not wanted to do it. And there's no

4:19

way I wouldn't have done the pellets

4:21

on rides if I want didn't have

4:23

that accountability on the other side. And

4:25

there's no way we would have done five

4:27

hundred episodes without missing a single

4:29

week if we weren't co hosting

4:31

together. I know you've said the same, so

4:33

it's not just that me and I'm not disciplined. there's

4:36

always something that you could do, but you just don't wanna let

4:38

anyone else down. And I think you can do this

4:40

in property as well. massively. Yeah.

4:42

If we whether it's working with an official

4:45

partner in what you do or just

4:47

getting a friend who cares about you to

4:49

hold you to account. And maybe they're doing

4:51

something completely different unrelated to property

4:54

where it may fitness or something else, but they want

4:56

to be held as accountable. You can still do that

4:58

even if you're actually both pursuing completely

5:00

different things. The power of that has

5:02

been such a driving factor in

5:04

getting us this far. Number

5:06

two, Rob. Keep it consistent.

5:08

And

5:09

I think Turning up and doing

5:12

something literally every week has

5:14

played a big part in growing the podcast

5:16

as big as it has. People

5:18

love consistent consistency. Consistency is good for

5:20

you in terms of actually showing up and doing

5:22

it, but everyone loves consistency. And

5:24

so the fact that you can rely on the podcast to

5:26

come out every single Thursday, whatever is

5:28

going on, whether it's Christmas day, New

5:30

Year's Day, whatever it is. We've been through that the

5:32

birth of multiple children have have happened

5:34

while the podcast has been going on and we haven't

5:36

missed one. That counts for

5:38

something because it becomes a fixture that people

5:40

can rely on. And I think if we

5:42

thought like did did a bit, then got busy,

5:44

missed a month, came back and did another one, we

5:46

wouldn't have got as far as we had. And

5:48

again, you can apply that anywhere. Yeah.

5:50

So, like, if fitness, it's like, if you are

5:52

disciplined every day or consistent every day with

5:54

what you do, then that works. and

5:57

consistency, just that it's

5:59

that if you can do a little bit, have

6:01

Webex for it's every day, every week, every month, if

6:03

you just make progress towards

6:05

your goals consistently, you know,

6:07

so fervor ahead, you know, with

6:09

property, it could be just that you

6:11

or committed to educating yourself,

6:13

you know, listening to the podcast is

6:16

a great way of being consistent with your education.

6:18

There you can play it in so many ways, but it's

6:20

been a massive a massive driver

6:22

for our success and, yeah, consistency definitely

6:25

deserves to be one of our key takeaways.

6:27

Number three, just get started.

6:30

This is another big one. And look, when

6:32

we started the podcast. We love

6:34

podcasts. We love the idea of it. We we

6:36

didn't really know what we were doing. We'd

6:38

weren't the experts in podcasting.

6:40

And we weren't massively the experts in

6:42

property. I mean, we knew a fair bit because we've been in

6:44

it for a while when we started, but we know so

6:46

much more now. There's another actually point

6:48

on that coming up. But the point is we

6:50

didn't wait until we felt that

6:52

the time was perfect to get started.

6:54

This, I think, Rob, hugely

6:57

applies to property because

6:59

there's always a reason not to do it

7:01

now. And we've seen this consistently in

7:03

terms of news flow, in terms of your

7:06

personal situation, there's always

7:08

a reason why now is not the right

7:10

time and you should wait and see. There

7:12

will be people who've listened to the podcast. I know

7:14

there are who've been listening for all these years

7:16

and still haven't quite brought themselves to get

7:18

started. And maybe if they got started,

7:21

they would have made him a stake, and it wouldn't have

7:23

been perfect. But they would have learned so much

7:25

that they would have been further ahead anyway.

7:27

They're getting started point is huge. So it's easy

7:29

to go, well, yeah, but you've got the big

7:31

podcast, then it's nearly four hundred

7:34

thousand downloads every month, which

7:36

is bunkers, thank you for being part

7:38

of those downloads. But when we started,

7:40

it probably wasn't even four hundred. Right?

7:42

It was it would have been tiny. Right? because we

7:44

did a bit of promotion, but we didn't have an audience.

7:46

And we just started We started

7:48

with property investment. We started a business.

7:51

And it's the same for everybody

7:53

watching or listening. It's just starts.

7:55

If it's property, if you haven't

7:57

begun investing yet, just start. Now,

8:00

if

8:00

you have the money to invest, then

8:02

today, this afternoon, or over the

8:04

weekend, don't make excuses set the time, do

8:06

it, and book in, book in that

8:08

time, and go and do the viewings, and

8:11

start that's starting to make progress.

8:13

Listening to podcasts is not enough.

8:16

You have to take that action. If this

8:18

could be called take action, but just doing

8:20

something. If you haven't got the funds to invest

8:22

yet, then it's okay.

8:24

Well, what can I do education wise? How can

8:26

I level up? And the fact that the podcast is

8:28

encouraging, but what else could you Have you been

8:30

to a networking meeting yet? Have you engaged

8:32

with other property investors

8:34

in real life kind of scary thing.

8:36

Right? But that's gonna level you

8:38

up. Just start doing it. Everything

8:40

new always seems scary, but

8:42

most things aren't. Once you've done it, you

8:44

kind of think why was I worried about that? Why

8:46

was I of it. But when you do

8:48

it, then you kind of go, okay, great.

8:50

What's next? Then you get that momentum.

8:52

But starting is so

8:54

so important. So number four

8:56

is to become an expert

8:58

creates. So I was

9:00

saying earlier, when we started, we

9:02

knew reasonable amount of property because we've been

9:04

investing ourselves and we've been running property

9:07

businesses for an amount of time,

9:09

but we didn't know everything. We

9:11

still don't know everything, but we know an amazing

9:13

amount more than we did. Part of that is

9:15

just because we've been in it for longer. We've now been in

9:17

it for ten years longer than we had been. So

9:19

naturally, you gain knowledge. but I'm convinced

9:22

that what's really driven our

9:24

knowledge accumulation has been

9:26

having to turn up and explain it to

9:28

other people every week. when you

9:30

have to put something out there and put a

9:32

point across whether it's to persuade someone,

9:34

inform, someone, entertain someone, whatever it

9:36

is, you've learned so much more

9:38

about what it is. You're forced

9:40

to do the reading in advance.

9:42

You're forced to think about

9:44

what you wanna do. And by putting together

9:46

whatever the material is, whether it could be a

9:48

blog, a podcast, a YouTube video,

9:50

anything at all. By doing that,

9:52

you clarify your thoughts so much.

9:54

And because you're spending more time immersed in it

9:56

and thinking about it, you start to link up

9:58

other concepts otherwise you wouldn't.

10:00

And so it's the

10:02

absolute best way for me, Rob, to

10:04

learn anything is to just

10:06

create, and that naturally ties back

10:08

into just getting started because it's so easy

10:10

to get put off creation because you're saying, oh, well, I

10:12

don't know everything. I'm not the expert.

10:14

Well, you get there by creating, by

10:16

starting. That's the whole point. Yeah. It

10:18

can it can sound intimidated. And,

10:20

you know, you can put this to property and know,

10:22

okay, you want to know, be more of an

10:24

expert with property or anything in life. you

10:26

start creating on it, I'll make a difference. Book,

10:29

yes, a podcast is doable. No one

10:31

has to listen. If you just make the

10:33

podcast, you'll learn. you like writing, it could be

10:35

a blog. It doesn't have to be a book. You don't have

10:37

to go as extreme as mister Day. But you

10:39

could just start really small and just open a

10:41

Twitter account around your chose subject

10:43

and start to give your thoughts and education

10:45

on that subject. Again,

10:47

if people don't engage, that's

10:49

not the the entire point. if we

10:51

had a tenth of the listeners that

10:53

we have to the podcast, we still

10:55

would have the same knowledge as we have today because we

10:57

presented that information. So

10:59

yes, we've done a lot of doing. Yes, we've done

11:01

a lot of investing. You know, we've done transactions

11:03

worth hundreds of millions of pounds worth

11:05

of deals. But the most

11:07

knowledge, you know, has really come from nearly

11:09

as much. If not more so, it's about to

11:11

create some heart by making us think about

11:13

how our experiences and what did we learn

11:15

from them? because you can do stuff, but

11:17

actually when you then document the stuff that you've

11:19

done and talk about it, you learn so much more because

11:21

you're you're forced to think about it. we'll do our

11:23

fifth point, and then we're gonna move on to questions, and we're

11:25

gonna be starting with questions that you have about the

11:27

podcast itself. I've seen some really good ones

11:29

coming in already, keep them coming, and we'll answer

11:31

those in just a minute. after we've done our

11:33

fifth point, and then Rob, you should leave this off because I've done

11:35

a few. Now if I don't settle,

11:37

do not settle. Let

11:39

so let's focus on the podcast to begin

11:42

with. So we've never settled with the podcast.

11:44

So a few years in, it was doing

11:46

fantastically well. We had a

11:48

basic editor, and we

11:50

thought right that's great. But we didn't

11:52

settle. We hired a producer

11:54

and editor. Somebody works a a lot

11:56

with us. That's a lot of hours into podcast with

11:58

us. And

11:59

that's helped level up again.

12:02

And then this year, you

12:04

know, the podcast is a top five business

12:06

podcast. But we thought,

12:08

no. let's level up. Let's not

12:10

settle. So we went through all our

12:12

data and went, okay,

12:14

let's look at what

12:16

working here. What have all been our most popular

12:18

episodes? What do people want basically? And

12:20

let's do more of that. And we changed around the

12:22

content second half of this year. You might have

12:24

noticed that we're kind of focus on these

12:26

bigger themes and just because that's what you

12:28

want. That's what we get the most reaction to and the

12:30

most downloads. And our podcast this year

12:33

has lifted up twenty percent. So it was

12:35

already a big number, but it's lifted up another twenty

12:37

percent and that's because we didn't settle. We didn't

12:39

settle in business either because we always want the

12:41

next big thing. We're always looking for the exciting

12:43

new goal. and we keep pushing

12:45

ourselves. You can do this from a property investment.

12:47

Like, if you've got a

12:49

portfolio and you're completely happy with it, you

12:51

don't have to keep expanding, but maybe

12:53

you just need to improve what you've done. Can you

12:55

look at the mortgage products? Can you look at the

12:57

rents that you're charging? What can you do? Don't

12:59

just get Boise out at all. but

13:01

maybe you've got your portfolio and you could push

13:03

that a little bit further. By not

13:05

settling, always means that you push

13:07

in property help and portfolio. we've

13:09

got a value called constant improvements.

13:11

And that really relates to this, which

13:13

is like we always can improve

13:15

on everything we do. and

13:17

we apply that to most areas

13:19

of our lives. Are we perfect far from it?

13:21

This is not to be confused though

13:23

with, like, grinding and just work

13:25

in twenty four seven, it's not the

13:27

same. So if we go back to the podcast

13:29

example of changing the content around,

13:32

that was a

13:34

morning's thoughts and conversation of

13:36

thinking about how we can improve things. And at a

13:38

couple of days, research to two and a

13:40

half days, total of effort to lift

13:42

our podcast by twenty percent. So it's

13:44

not that we, you know, put in

13:46

fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty hours

13:48

weeks to make the podcast better. we

13:50

just gave it time, but we didn't settle. And

13:52

then we we gave it some thoughts and,

13:54

you know, some intellect, hopefully. And then

13:56

we thought, okay, this is how we can do it.

13:58

Let's test it. We tested it, and it improved. but

14:00

not settling allows you to constantly

14:02

improve. And I think that's a good thing to do

14:04

in life. I think it's always good at least in

14:06

one area of life to always be

14:08

pushing yourself. That's right. I think

14:10

you're completely right to say that

14:12

it's not the same as just working

14:14

hard like. We're not working twenty percent

14:16

harder to grow our numbers by twenty

14:18

percent. we're doing the same. But if you take

14:20

the approach well, I just need to do more. I'll put

14:22

out more podcasts, more content, then that's

14:24

one way of doing it, but that's not the best

14:26

way. So the our way is just kind of putting in,

14:28

I suppose, more thought and not being

14:30

happy with satisfied with where we are,

14:32

but putting in thought to try to move

14:34

it to the next level. And I think well as

14:36

not you don't have to work ridiculously

14:38

hard. You don't have to optimize every area

14:40

of your life all at once. I think it

14:42

makes sense to have kind of one

14:44

goal at a time and be optimizing

14:46

one or maybe two different

14:48

areas, you can definitely fall into a trap of

14:50

just trying to especially when you first get

14:52

excited about personal improvement, trying to

14:54

optimize everything all at once, and that's a good way

14:56

to burn out. So

14:57

There

14:59

we go. Those are the five things

15:01

that we picked out that we've learned from five

15:03

hundred episodes of the property podcast.

15:06

Now it's time for questions. With

15:08

questions. Let's start it off with

15:10

general questions to begin with.

15:12

So I'm about a podcast, high

15:14

level stuff stuff that will be hopefully

15:16

timeless stuff we can answer. And then, of

15:18

course, we'll get into the market today

15:20

because people want to know about that.

15:22

So we'll prioritize those

15:24

questions that are coming in again that

15:26

really allow us to do

15:28

time's content. And the green content is the right

15:30

to call Rob, here's a good one.

15:32

Did we ever steal any potential

15:34

backlash from the fake guru community who

15:36

charged for this type of learning and

15:38

information? No.

15:40

No. There's been the odd little

15:43

bit, but nothing too

15:45

since there. There's yeah. There's

15:47

been the odd little shots

15:49

fires, but nothing nothing aggressive.

15:51

Nothing that bothered us.

15:53

No. There was a company or

15:55

individual who we will not name who who is

15:57

trying to do SEO negative

15:59

SEO, like, against my name

16:01

and and and, like and make it

16:03

certain insinuations and and it was

16:05

a very drop your email at one point as well.

16:07

But I think they kind of got the message

16:09

that we weren't that bothered. Like, the best thing to do is

16:11

always just ignore it. Right? And so we just have to

16:13

ignore it. Didn't get any attention. Didn't greater

16:15

into some big beef, and so it just kind of they

16:17

kind of gave up. Sadly, I think

16:19

they're doing perfectly well. And

16:22

we're we're not hurting their business in any

16:24

meaningful way. very well, not selating them, so

16:26

tempted. Before

16:28

we go on, I think I think I love the fact that

16:30

people still don't know which of us is

16:32

where it shows up. We addressed it like Rob without the

16:34

beard, and Rob with the big microsling. We

16:36

should we should probably have had a way of getting our

16:38

names up on screen. We'll do it. Maybe we'll do it next

16:40

time. Okay. Next. next.

16:42

How

16:42

do you think

16:44

a newbie can get into a property investment

16:46

role? That's a really tough question. It always

16:48

has to come back to goals and what you're

16:50

trying to achieve. That's always a start to

16:52

any answer, and it sometimes feels like a bit of a

16:54

cop out. But it does because it's

16:56

like, well, what you're trying to

16:58

achieve and what have you got behind you

17:00

in terms of are you a newbie but you've

17:02

got a million quid or are you a newbie and

17:04

you've got a thousand pounds. they're very

17:06

different things. So I

17:09

think the best thing that you can do for

17:11

me, I'll be interested in your answer,

17:13

is we start getting experience as

17:15

quickly as you can. And so if

17:17

that experience can be actually going and buying

17:19

a property, that's awesome. If you can't

17:21

do that, but you can

17:23

get small amount of exposure through a fund. So at

17:26

least you're kind of you've got something in it because you're

17:28

interested in what's happening, and so that kind of

17:30

causes you to, oh, why does that happen? Then you

17:32

kind of go in learning. If you can't do that or you don't

17:34

wanna do that, then just be absorbed in

17:36

it all the time and keep on learning and trying to

17:38

speak to people who are doing it.

17:40

without falling into the trap of just kind of trying to learn everything

17:42

before you start. So yeah, that

17:44

would be the start of my answer. I would don't know if you

17:46

got anything to add. No. No. I've been I've

17:48

been that's it. a great answer.

17:50

It's just getting comes back to one of the points and it's

17:52

just getting started, you know, financially not

17:55

maybe able to do it, but go

17:57

and work with another property

17:59

investor, shadow them, see what they do,

18:01

ask questions, just build on your

18:03

knowledge and consistently save

18:05

as quickly as you can so you can get yourself in

18:07

that position to invest.

18:09

I've seen a great way to

18:11

remember who we are, Rob.

18:14

Robbie for b. It's Robbie. It's Robbie.

18:16

Perfect. So I can't remember that from now

18:19

on. Can you just forget who

18:21

I am? Richard

18:24

has asked which subjects are most

18:27

popular on the podcast. Interestingly,

18:29

I say there are two categories of things that are

18:31

that tend to get the best numbers and the most reactions.

18:33

One is all the the macro stuff.

18:35

So anything that we do to do with

18:38

inflation and QE and things like that, even though

18:40

it's not directly related to property,

18:42

evidenced during the eighteen year cycle,

18:45

obviously. But also things that

18:47

aren't actually to do with property, anything

18:49

that we do around kind of general self

18:51

improvement and mindset kind of topics. We

18:53

always get really good reactions to those,

18:55

which is We're never quite sure whether we should

18:57

be doing them because it's like, well, it's not really about

18:59

property. You can kind of relate it back, but they

19:01

always do really well. They do.

19:03

podcast related. Why did

19:05

we stop AOB? The truth

19:07

is we didn't really enjoy making

19:10

it. And if in that sense, something that you

19:12

should try and do the things that

19:14

enjoy. We really, really

19:16

enjoy creating

19:18

the proxy podcast. And I really

19:20

enjoy it, obviously, five hundred episodes

19:23

in. A and B was kind of felt like

19:25

a chore. I think it was because we

19:27

possibly committed to do it on camera as well as we

19:29

had to travel somewhere. That was more

19:31

athletes. I know it makes it sound like we're

19:33

a bit lazy, but we do have a lot other things going

19:35

on. So it was kind of the

19:37

lack of enjoyment then meant the

19:39

motivation wasn't there, so we didn't push

19:41

on with it. we

19:43

do definitely like talking about business,

19:45

and we are

19:47

and maybe let's make an excuse about we

19:49

are very, very tempted

19:51

to release a new podcast in

19:54

the future. Hopefully, in the

19:56

new year, certainly in the first quarter

19:58

of next year, you feel free to guess.

20:00

We don't give it away what it's about

20:03

yet. But we will go and come within the

20:05

podcast. Something that we think we're gonna really

20:07

enjoy recording. in

20:09

a format that's gonna suit us. So,

20:11

yeah, of course, we'll keep you updated on

20:13

the property podcast when that launches,

20:15

but we will I I

20:17

would say ninety eight percent certain launch another

20:20

podcast next year. Yeah. And I think it's

20:22

important that we're we're learning our lessons from

20:24

the last one and going, okay. Well,

20:26

well, whether we enjoy it.

20:28

That sounds like selfish thing, but it's really important

20:30

because that's how you do a good job and do

20:32

some of those things we talked about earlier in terms of being

20:34

obsessed with getting better and better. and we're sort

20:36

of trialing it in in advance as well

20:38

to try and nail it before we get

20:41

started. Got it. I'm following one from Baird. It says Rob

20:43

b, meant Rob d. Are

20:45

you scratch themself. I know you choose to rent. Does your landlord

20:47

know who you are? And do they listen to the podcast?

20:49

I'd find it weird if I were your

20:51

landlord. Actually, I did when I called

20:53

up about the property we're renting, the letting

20:55

agent recognized my voice, which is actually really helpful

20:57

because there was a lot of competition for getting

21:00

this property. I don't feel to repeat

21:02

that every time. Maybe it's a good motivation to grow the

21:04

podcast to make sure I'll get recognized by everyone.

21:06

But that was a bit of a win, and I liked it

21:08

because in real life, Rob B,

21:10

gets recognized far more than I do. So

21:12

I take the winds where I can get them. I think it's just

21:14

because I go out more. I

21:17

could be faster. Do we

21:20

ever disagree because we seem to agree

21:22

on those things? We

21:25

do agree on those things actually. I

21:27

put it down to Rob's patience probably more than

21:29

anything. But I think and that's important that

21:31

we are aligned on kind of values and visions

21:33

that we have for the podcast and the business. So

21:36

we don't disagree very often. And when

21:38

we do, it's just the respectful conversation.

21:40

When we have a different point of view,

21:43

which probably isn't often enough.

21:45

we both very to why the person

21:47

doesn't think that way. You know, when Rob

21:49

doesn't agree with me, I really want to understand

21:52

why. I want embarrass him, reach a

21:54

super smart guy. So if he doesn't agree my point of

21:56

view, then I want to understand his point of view

21:58

because at the very least I'm gonna probably

22:00

learned something, proved my point of view, or

22:02

changed my point of view. So I know

22:04

that sounds like with Switzerland, I

22:06

mean, never argue. We've never got

22:08

cross of each other. but it's just that's

22:10

not what we like. And it'd be more interesting for

22:12

the podcast if we disagreed more

22:14

sometimes. Right. You might have heard us say, I

22:16

really wanna disagree with you on that, but

22:18

I can't I think, yeah,

22:20

it's always more interesting than we do because it's

22:22

an opportunity to learn. But I think

22:24

we're quite similar anyway. That's why we work

22:26

together well, but also when you work with someone for a long

22:28

time, you sort of start

22:30

merging a little bit and it's kind of the

22:32

same in a marriage like people kind of get more

22:34

similar over time. And know,

22:36

in terms of investment strategy, part of my

22:38

strategy moving has been influenced by Rob

22:40

and sort of seeing what he's doing. I oh, yeah. See

22:42

what he's doing and why he's doing it.

22:45

yeah, he's right to being doing. That's why I sort of

22:47

shifted and so we've become more similar over time

22:49

in different ways. Michael said, please, that

22:51

would stop the podcast. don't worry. Just because we're

22:53

starting a new podcast, we'll not mean we're stopping

22:55

this podcast. We'll

22:57

we'll carry on. I don't know how many of the lives

22:59

we'll do, but we'll certainly carry

23:01

on. with the normal parts that do

23:03

not worry. This interest question from

23:05

Harry. Given the interest rate for the next year,

23:07

would you look at capital growth over the rental

23:10

yields? I always look at

23:12

both, but the one I'm optimizing for is

23:14

capital growth. Because capital

23:16

growth is where you get

23:18

the wealth. Rent is the

23:20

nice bonus top up, your rental

23:22

profit. The capital growth is where the meaning for

23:24

wealth is created, and that's

23:26

where

23:26

I've not

23:27

the beginning. So I've adjusted my strategy, but certainly over

23:29

the last few years, I've optimized my

23:31

personal strategy to take

23:33

on property investments that

23:36

hopefully will deliver the most capital growth. And the

23:38

way to work for those properties is looking for

23:40

areas that show a lot of value. So

23:42

often it can be, decent rental

23:44

yields plus very strong fundamentals.

23:47

So if you find an area that has, you know, quite

23:49

attractive yields, it doesn't have to be like

23:51

barnstorming, just quite good compared to what

23:53

the place with good fundamentals, really good

23:55

fundamentals. Then you can go, oh, actually,

23:57

this place has, you know, got a great

23:59

opportunity for capital growth. areas

24:01

that we've identified in the past that qualify for

24:03

that would be Manchester. Manchester is absolutely

24:05

qualified for that has done amazing. And we, you know,

24:07

we've took on Manchester years and years ago

24:09

before he did. certainly throw a derby,

24:12

lippable, nottingham into

24:14

that batch of places that have

24:16

incredible fundamentals. But

24:19

actually, the yields are pretty decent.

24:21

And normally, we have

24:23

decent yields and really, really

24:25

strong fundamentals. The next

24:27

step is capital growth. So

24:29

I personally always optimize the

24:31

cost of growth, make sure I've got solid rent

24:33

coming in and then cover all the costs to make a bit

24:35

of a profit, but that's not where the wealth

24:38

creation is. James has asked a question about printing

24:40

versus owning. We'll answer that one in

24:42

a bit, but I've got another one

24:44

from Richard. He said is now the wrong time

24:46

to buy. Should we be waiting for

24:48

a few months and the likely crash to happen. This is

24:50

a difficult one. I've actually got a video coming

24:52

out on a very similar subject next week,

24:54

so watch out for that one. But

24:57

Obviously, you could look at the situation right now

24:59

and go, yeah, of course.

25:02

Clearly, there are lots of reasons why

25:04

everything could go wrong, and therefore, I'll wait and

25:06

see what happens. The only problem with

25:08

that is you could have made the argument at

25:10

multiple different points over the last

25:12

however many years. So

25:14

You could have done that with COVID. You could have done it

25:16

with Brexit. You could have done it when there

25:18

was the election with Jeremy Corbyn.

25:21

There are so many reasons that

25:23

you go, oh, well, some something's gonna go wrong

25:25

soon. Therefore, I'm gonna wait and see. And

25:27

there's never a point where everything

25:30

looks absolutely brilliant forever into

25:32

the future. And the problem is actually

25:34

that if there ever is a point when everyone

25:36

is feeling great about everything,

25:38

That means something's probably gonna go wrong soon.

25:41

It's the best time to invest is

25:43

generally when people are nervous, you

25:45

can get out there and do good deals. but

25:47

people will think if the world's going to end, but actually

25:49

it doesn't. Obviously, the thing is,

25:51

at some point, things are going to go

25:53

really wrong. We've talked about that extensive you know it's

25:55

gonna happen. So it's just a matter of, well,

25:57

is it gonna be now or is it not? And

25:59

we can't tell you what to do, what you

26:01

should do, what you should think, all we can

26:03

do is give our view of things and

26:05

tell you about what we're doing personally as

26:07

well, which we did on the podcast just yesterday. We're

26:09

talking about how we're buying at the moment. So

26:11

that's all we can do. And then you have to make up your

26:13

own mind. But the problem is,

26:15

it's very easy to go, yes, I

26:17

should wait, but you can just find yourself

26:19

waiting forever. There's a really good question in

26:21

from Jamie to allow us to

26:23

answer two things actually, which is when the

26:25

crash comes, how deep do we think

26:27

it'll be? Will it be, you know, a deep severe

26:29

crash? Or will it be, you know, a quick

26:31

recovery? And think

26:33

it allows us to say when we think a crash will come,

26:36

which, obviously, again,

26:38

in unison when we

26:40

say that it's a good few

26:42

years away yet because there's still the boom to

26:45

happen. And how big the crash will be

26:47

would would be determined by how big the

26:49

boom is and that's nearly always the

26:51

case. If you have a super strong aggressive

26:53

boom, then you tend to have a super strong

26:55

aggressive crash. It kinda makes sense right.

26:57

So time will tell anybody who's

26:59

gonna start predicting on how

27:01

deep or shallow the next crash will

27:03

be, doesn't have a clue none of us

27:05

do. It's gonna depend on how

27:07

big this boom ends up being.

27:09

and the government I I think

27:12

wants a booth. I I think that's what

27:14

they try to start with the

27:16

recent budget. Let's not go. into

27:18

that in too much detail. It may

27:20

not work so far, but that's their

27:22

intent. You know, it's stand juicy. The changes

27:24

there. Well, does that well, that suggests that they want very

27:26

strong property market. Even

27:28

though it's up, it depends on

27:30

which dataset you use, but at least eight

27:32

percent so far this year. so

27:34

the incredibly well this year. It

27:37

softened a little bit, didn't crash, didn't drop,

27:39

just softened, and the garment

27:41

went in straight with a stamp duty

27:43

cut. I think that tells you everything you need

27:45

to know about what they want to happen to

27:47

property prices over the coming years. And

27:49

if that happens and if we go into a

27:51

boom, an aggressive boom, then unfortunately, we'll

27:53

have an aggressive crash. And if we

27:55

have a modest boom, we'll have a

27:57

modest crash. So I'm not one

27:59

for big boom and busts. A

28:02

bit like golden brown. But

28:04

only golden brown, I'd eventually end of boom

28:06

and busts. I think that there are more

28:08

to come and will always come because

28:10

of human nature. So quite a lot

28:12

of different questions around

28:15

mortgages and that's what I suppose if I

28:17

bucket it down, it would all be like. mortgages

28:19

are getting more expensive. Does that mean property values

28:21

have to come down? And what should

28:23

I be doing with mortgages

28:26

given where rates are?

28:28

there's a few different things to say about this. We talked about this bit on

28:30

a webinar that we did last night and we'll probably

28:32

end up doing something on the podcast about it

28:35

soon. But important thing at the moment is at the

28:37

moment, mortgage rates are

28:39

all over the place at the moment because no

28:41

one knows what's gonna happen. So

28:43

expectations of future interest

28:45

rates have changed really rapidly after the mini budget.

28:47

And as a result, nobody's got a lot

28:49

of visibility. Lenders need to know what's gonna be

28:51

happening over the coming years for their fixed rate products

28:53

and they don't. So they pulled

28:55

all their products. They're in the process of

28:58

bringing them back, where they come

29:00

back. Nobody really knows. What's

29:02

gonna be important is

29:04

where the the base rate

29:06

ends up settling. So there's

29:08

lots of predictions around this. Like, there's

29:10

predictions about it being six percent

29:12

by the middle of next year? Maybe. But

29:14

nobody knows. Nobody has a clue. Everyone who

29:16

tries to predict these things ends up being wrong. I didn't know

29:18

about the base rate, but it's really hard

29:21

to know. So the important thing

29:23

to know for now is that at the

29:25

moment, we're just in a bit of a, I'd

29:27

say, a bit of a pause where we just don't

29:29

know where rates are gonna settle. they're very clearly going to

29:31

settle higher than they have

29:33

been in the past. The base rate

29:35

has been close to zero for

29:37

years. mortgage rates have been extremely cheap

29:39

for years, so they were only ever gonna go

29:41

in one direction. And I don't think they're gonna

29:43

come back down to where they

29:46

were before. We're just in a different era now, but it's a

29:48

case of where they settle and are we

29:50

suddenly gonna see runaway interest rates?

29:52

I don't think we are. But I think at the in terms

29:54

of what you should do at the moment, like,

29:56

should you be doing anything right now? Should you be

29:58

fixing? We've said on the podcast

30:00

recently, if you can, the best thing to do now

30:02

is nothing. And in terms

30:04

of just wait to see where things settle

30:06

settle down. And in terms of how

30:08

long should you be fixing for

30:10

I can see doing a long term fix,

30:13

but if you're doing it right

30:15

now, it's possibly possibly

30:17

a bad time to be doing that because you're

30:20

looking in a pretty unkind

30:23

rate when there are lots of factors pointing

30:25

to the fact that actually it's gonna

30:27

get better over the next couple of years. So

30:29

I previously said, like, I had fixed

30:31

for five years, a pull of slightly tongue in cheek

30:33

because it means a company bothered to deal with it after

30:35

two years. But my

30:37

view has changed over the last couple

30:39

of weeks because of everything that's been

30:41

going on. I now think that

30:43

it's probably best to

30:46

maintain some flexibility because, yes, there

30:48

is a risk that rates will go up further

30:50

by its own balance. It's more likely

30:52

that the situation right now will settle down.

30:54

and they will come down from where they are now,

30:57

not down to where they were, but down from

30:59

what's unavailable right now. It's a good question

31:01

in from Craig. He's got ATK

31:03

to invest in how should it get started. So

31:05

once you've established your goals and

31:07

your strategy, and let's just, you know

31:10

well, there's this matter of each strategy. You get goals

31:12

and strategy. There's lots of different strategies you can

31:14

go for. But once you've done

31:16

that, for me,

31:18

it's don't overthink it. It comes

31:20

back to one of our points earlier in

31:22

this podcast, which is get started.

31:24

Your first investment, you will probably

31:27

regret or critique more than any

31:29

other in years to come. Because

31:31

he'll look at and go, oh, well, that's

31:33

not right. You know, I had this idea of a

31:35

golden strategy, but it's adapted and changed. And

31:37

actually, it wasn't the best pick. don't worry

31:39

about that. Like, by starting,

31:42

you're progressing because you'll learn

31:44

those lessons when you become more informed

31:46

as an investor by doing.

31:48

great thing about property investment is, in the vast

31:51

majority of cases, you know, unless it's a

31:53

nightmare situation, in the vast majority of

31:55

cases, you get rewarded

31:57

anyway. you might not get as much capital growth

31:59

and you might not

31:59

get as much rental profit, but you

32:02

still, over time, should get

32:04

both. And

32:04

terms of learning, that's the best

32:06

type of learning, right, you still get rewarded

32:09

over the long term. So

32:11

don't overthink it. Action

32:13

is important. get started.

32:15

You're not looking for perfect. You're looking

32:17

for good enough. And once you found an

32:19

investment that's good enough and you're off the mark, then the real

32:21

education starts. Mitesh

32:23

has asked, do you think the rental market will

32:25

ease off as house prices fall? I don't

32:27

think the rental market will ease off

32:30

because if we're talking about house prices

32:32

falling for a start, no one has any idea what's gonna

32:34

happen with house prices. If we do see

32:36

falls from where we are now, which is

32:39

entirely possible, Then I

32:40

think we've talked about the eighteen year cycle. We

32:43

did our most recent episode on where are we

32:45

in the cycle. All that still applies. the any

32:47

falls that we get from here are gonna be pretty

32:49

minor. And even if you got a fall that was

32:51

pretty major, it doesn't mean everyone's

32:53

suddenly gonna become a homeowner and

32:55

be doing that instead of renting. Because

32:57

the thing is whenever you do get a

32:59

big crash, whenever that does

33:01

come. it becomes a really difficult time to actually buy because

33:03

it's really hard to get mortgages. So

33:05

any kind of change in terms of

33:07

the balance of owners and renters

33:10

It's gonna take a long time to happen. It's not gonna happen suddenly.

33:12

There are lots of factors that are

33:14

supporting the rental market being very

33:17

strong. So rental growth over the last year has been

33:19

absolutely nuts. I don't think it's always gonna

33:21

be that nuts, but I do think it's

33:23

gonna continue to be very strong.

33:26

My net question, how

33:28

pick up? Is there

33:30

a diversification? I've seen a couple of questions

33:32

on this on how do you diversify in

33:35

property and how do we diversify

33:37

it with our investments. So in property,

33:39

one way, there are a few ways to diversify.

33:41

So one way to diversify is

33:43

doing different strategies. I personally don't like

33:46

that because it's

33:48

more work. Because you may be

33:50

invested in property, but they are so

33:52

so different and require different

33:54

energy efforts and it's

33:56

actually very little duplication other

33:58

than them being both property investment

34:00

strategies. is very little in common, which helps

34:02

you. So for example, if you do professional buy to

34:04

let's kind of more set, forget. If you did that

34:06

also with holiday left, which is quite intensive, they're

34:09

very different things. It's a way for

34:11

diversification within property, but not one that I personally would choose. The

34:14

way Rob and I

34:16

both diversified, is to different

34:18

locations and different property types. So

34:20

we both have a mix of houses and apartments.

34:22

We both have a mix of areas

34:24

that we invest in as well. So

34:27

if a particular area does well,

34:29

then we benefit from that, but

34:31

that also compensates for an area that

34:33

is underperforming. Now when

34:36

you start, I appreciate that is, you know, really difficult.

34:38

And, you know, that's why,

34:40

you know, you put all your eggs in one

34:42

basket and you kind of feel under pressure to get

34:44

it right. But as a word you said,

34:46

just starting is better than doing nothing,

34:48

and you'll learn those lessons, and it doesn't have

34:50

to be the best investment ever.

34:52

So that's the way

34:54

of diversifying. diversifying wealth and investment in

34:56

general. I know it's pretty similar to

34:58

Europe, but all kind

35:00

of diversification

35:02

is poor. because the amount of money

35:04

you need to put into property is

35:06

vast in most cases.

35:08

So because of that, you

35:10

become imbalanced with where

35:12

your wealth is pop. It's a little

35:14

located, allocated to it. Then

35:16

it's probably a lot of IFA's would look at

35:18

it and go, oh, you know, I

35:20

don't like that you're balance your mix

35:22

there. But we are investing in something that we are probably experts at

35:24

and know very, very well. And I'd rather invest

35:26

in something I'm an expert at than invest in

35:28

something that I kind of have a passing

35:30

knowledge of. Yeah. There's a

35:32

lot to be said for diversification, but the

35:34

typical advice that you

35:36

get is sort of for if you want

35:38

typical results And so

35:40

maybe you don't want typical results. If you want

35:42

to do better than that and you

35:44

feel like you've got an edge in something

35:46

or you've got knowledge of something, then it makes

35:48

sense to be imbalance while

35:50

being aware, of course, of the risk you're

35:52

taking, you're not being unaware of that.

35:54

But one of the great things about

35:56

property is that we invest the long term, right? So

35:58

capital values could bounce around all over the

36:00

place, but the rental income is

36:02

always gonna be there. And so that

36:04

certainly helps because what the

36:06

portfolio is worth today is

36:08

of no consequence whatsoever.

36:10

Maybe in thirty years' time it will be, but today

36:12

it's not. Okay. Well, thank you,

36:15

everyone. That's absolutely flown. Thank

36:17

you so much for joining us. We didn't know if

36:19

this is gonna be, like, crazy. or ever like it's

36:21

inconvenient for people to join us. So thank you for taking your your time out to join

36:23

us today and helping us celebrate

36:25

episode five I'll

36:28

get my spot in the water out once again. Cheers, Rob.

36:30

Happy five hundred. Happy five hundred. This

36:32

podcast will be well edited and will sound probably

36:34

half decent by Thursday. So thank

36:38

you producer and for all you do. And thank you once again for

36:40

joining us today. Do check out the market

36:42

update video after this. They'll get you up

36:44

to speed. with

36:46

everything that's going on in the market right

36:48

now. And, yeah, make sure you subscribe

36:50

because we do have some brilliant

36:52

videos coming up. We recorded one earlier today. So

36:54

there's some amazing content come as well. And

36:56

of course, we'll be

36:58

back next Thursday with the proxy

37:00

podcast. So until then, take care.

37:02

Have fun. Bye

37:03

bye. Bye bye.