0:00

There's no other person that has the same

0:02

sequence of events that have created who

0:04

you are and how you look at the world

0:06

. So just knowing that and knowing that

0:08

because of that , you have something to offer

0:10

to the world , and it could be

0:12

something that you're doing right now , it could be something that

0:14

you don't know you're going to be doing very soon

0:17

, but tapping into that potential

0:19

and just always taking the risk , because

0:22

it's always more reward when you take the risk

0:24

right .

0:30

Welcome to PH Spotlight , a

0:32

community for you to build your

0:34

public health career with . Join

0:37

us weekly right here , and I'll

0:39

be here too . Your host , sujani

0:41

Siva from PH Spot . Hey

0:46

, anjesa , and welcome to the PH

0:48

Spot podcast . Long Overdue to have you here

0:50

and we

0:52

went like 40 minutes of just chit

0:54

chatting before we realized that we should

0:57

start recording this podcast episode

0:59

, so welcome .

1:00

Thank you , thanks for having me .

1:03

I think I tell people whenever I

1:05

have a guest like where we've met and like

1:07

, I think recently , in the past year or two , everyone

1:10

I've met has been on LinkedIn . I think it's been

1:12

such a great place to just

1:14

meet people , get to know them , collaborate

1:16

on different projects . So

1:18

Anjesa and I met on LinkedIn . We

1:21

connected , I think more than a year ago or so

1:23

, and have been able to keep

1:25

in touch and see each other not

1:27

only grow in our work but

1:29

also grow in our families , which is being

1:31

super fun . One of the

1:34

favorite questions I have whenever I

1:36

bring on guests who have a public health

1:38

background is kind of how they

1:40

discovered public health and , like

1:42

, what's their earliest memory of just finding

1:44

out what this field is .

1:46

Yeah , that's a great question . I

1:49

think that that's sort of always a journey for

1:51

people to get into public health . But

1:53

I definitely , when I started university

1:56

I was after high school

1:58

took a year because I wasn't sure where I wanted

2:00

to go or what I wanted to do . My

2:02

first semester I dabbled in . You know , should

2:04

I do business or should I do

2:07

med school ? Med school always

2:09

, I think I had talked about

2:11

. I had always wanted to be a pediatrician . That

2:13

was what sort of my I told my family

2:16

and when I started

2:18

to dabble into it , I realized that , like you know , I really

2:20

, really loved the sciences

2:23

and I really loved , specifically

2:25

, biology labs . I was like this

2:27

is awesome , I love seeing what

2:30

I'm learning in practice . And

2:32

so when I was looking at

2:34

my university programs , I

2:37

found one that said Bachelor

2:39

of Science and Health Sciences and I

2:41

didn't quite understand what that meant , but I

2:43

was like , oh , it sounds like , sounds cool

2:46

. So I enrolled in that program

2:48

and I and I started doing that program and

2:50

it was . It was public health , but

2:52

it was called health sciences and I didn't know

2:54

public health as around at that

2:56

time . But once I started getting

2:58

into the work and I was , you know , learning

3:01

about it . I was doing that program

3:03

because it met all the prerequisites

3:05

for med school . Okay , you just

3:07

have like 12 courses before I go to

3:09

med school , and that was the program that already

3:12

made you do those 12 courses , so it wasn't

3:14

anything . In addition , and it was

3:16

in third year , I sat down in

3:18

a course called social determinants of health

3:20

. I didn't know what it meant . It

3:22

was so new , such a new concept to me and

3:25

at the same time I was starting to question

3:27

medical school . I was a part of a

3:29

medical fraternity , a pre-med

3:32

fraternity , so there was basically everyone

3:34

at the school , at the university , that

3:36

wanted to go to med school and we were doing

3:38

info sessions with physicians and

3:41

other people and making those decisions . And

3:43

I met a woman who was a radiologist

3:45

and her and I started chatting on the side

3:48

at one of these events and she asked me a question . She

3:50

said do you want to have a family ? I said

3:52

yes , I like I want five kids

3:54

. That was the goal and

3:56

I have two now and I think I'm done . I

4:01

can aspire to five , but I think I'm done

4:03

at two . But she said

4:05

she asked me that question and I kind of was like

4:08

okay , like I said yes , and

4:10

she said then you need to really think

4:12

about what life you

4:14

want and what kind of life you want

4:16

and how you want your life to look . And she said

4:18

I love being a radiologist . She said

4:21

it's the most rewarding thing that I've ever done

4:23

and it's my dream . It's been my dream . And

4:25

she said but when I had my two kids , she

4:28

said I couldn't be

4:30

with my kids at the same time of

4:32

being a resident , a radiology

4:35

resident , and I had to be at the back and call

4:37

of the hospital and you know

4:39

, just putting in those hours , getting those experiences

4:41

, because it's very hands on and the learning

4:43

is when you're present . She

4:45

said so I had my kids with my

4:47

in-laws majority of the time . And

4:50

she said she goes . At this time she goes

4:52

. I'm about 15 years into my career , I

4:55

have a stable career , I have stable hours

4:57

, she goes , everything sort of settled down . And

4:59

so she said now I'm at the place where I can

5:02

be with my kids and do my job and she

5:04

goes . But when I go to hang out with my kids , they

5:06

say to me oh , you know , actually

5:08

we'd rather go to grandma's house , you know

5:10

. And she said I realize I don't feel

5:13

that bond , I don't

5:15

feel like I'm going to be able

5:17

to do that . And

5:19

so she just shared that with me . Because she said just really dig deep and think about

5:21

your future and what you want your future to look

5:23

like , and it's definitely doable . She

5:25

goes . I know a lot of people that have had kids , had

5:27

been a doctor and it's been fine . She

5:29

goes . But in my experience , this is what

5:31

I struggle with . That was the same

5:34

day that I started this new course and I sat down

5:36

and I was like so fascinated

5:38

I was so fascinated that our health

5:40

, our education , where we came

5:42

from , where we live , our social

5:45

safety , now the country , what the country has

5:47

, all these things impact our health

5:49

so deeply . And it was

5:51

in that course that you know within

5:53

that week that I was like this is what I love

5:55

to do , like this part of it . This

5:58

is what I want to do is impact

6:00

health in a broader way . And

6:03

then that was when I decided like okay , whatever

6:05

this career is in social determinants of

6:07

health , this is what I'm doing . If

6:09

that means I'm going to go to med school and be a public health

6:11

physician , I'll do that . If that means

6:13

I'm just going to be a public health practitioner

6:15

and not go to med school , I'll do that . But

6:18

whatever the path is , I'll just sort

6:20

of follow it intuitively . And

6:22

so that's really how I found public health is

6:25

. Just through that course and that conversation , there's

6:27

a different way . We could enter

6:30

health care and health without

6:32

being a physician and going to med school

6:34

.

6:34

Yeah , I think when we learn about

6:37

the social determinants of health and

6:39

I found , at least you know , years

6:41

back and I think you and I probably went

6:43

and got our undergrad around the same time there

6:46

weren't a lot of bachelor's level

6:48

education in public health , and so

6:50

I remember too kind of epi and

6:53

some of those courses were available

6:55

for third and fourth year , and you almost

6:57

wonder like , oh , I wish I had this

7:00

opportunity to learn about social determinants

7:03

of health earlier on , and sometimes

7:05

, you know , I even think it should be like part

7:07

of the high school curriculum because it's so

7:09

foundational to just all

7:11

of the sciences that I hope

7:13

we get to a point where , you know , I'm

7:15

seeing more and more bachelors level public health

7:18

programs , which is amazing . But I

7:20

hope it gets kind of integrated into

7:22

even our high school curriculum because

7:24

it's just so foundational to everything

7:26

we do . Right , when you were explaining , you

7:28

know where you're born , where you

7:30

live , the like , access

7:33

of all the things that is

7:35

needed for you to live your life is

7:37

just so foundational to everything

7:39

we do that it wouldn't hurt to know

7:41

all of that early on and then , let alone

7:43

have people you know choose a career

7:46

in that .

7:47

Yeah , yeah , exactly . I think I was

7:49

the third cohort of students going through

7:52

that bachelor's program . It was so

7:54

very new and funny story is

7:56

that I didn't know . I didn't know who

7:58

designed the program , but it was this

8:00

person named Dr Michael Hayes , and

8:03

when I went to go do my master's of public health

8:05

, I went to a different university in BC

8:07

and he had designed the master's of public

8:09

health and so I repeated

8:12

my master's degree , but in a very

8:14

condensed two years , I mean , I did phenomenal

8:16

, I just went copy paste , you know . So

8:21

yeah , it was such a new , new

8:24

space at that time and this is

8:26

only like a decade ago . It's not like that long ago . That

8:29

, like the same person designed both programs in

8:31

one province . At

8:34

that time I was like , wow , this is so wild .

8:36

Such a small world in public health . I think

8:38

that's what you realize , especially you know in

8:41

Canada . We're both in Canada and I think a

8:43

lot of the players in public health you'll

8:45

eventually like bump into them at some point

8:47

of your career .

8:49

Oh , yeah , yeah , for sure yeah .

8:51

Okay , so then I saw that you

8:55

started a master's program in public

8:57

health , kind of almost immediately after you

8:59

graduated with your undergraduates , so it sounds

9:02

like you chose to go , you know

9:04

, down that path rather than medical

9:06

school . What was the reason for that

9:08

decision for you ?

9:10

I think it was a conversation I had with

9:12

that physician and just like that

9:14

, in claim of that , I really

9:16

wanted to be a mom and I wanted

9:18

to be a very present mom . So

9:20

my family were refugees from Afghanistan

9:23

and so I was born

9:25

in Afghanistan and it was about a year when my family

9:27

had to flood like overnight , like

9:29

I didn't think we had like a crazy story . But

9:31

then I interviewed my grandparents for one of my

9:34

undergrad projects in public health it

9:37

was around what they think of healthcare in Canada

9:39

as immigrants and they told

9:41

me the whole story and it was a crazy

9:44

story of how they just had to pack up overnight

9:46

, you know , pay people to cross

9:49

them over to the border into

9:51

Pakistan , and then a year later

9:53

we had an uncle . My grandma had a brother in Canada

9:56

, in a small town called Chatham

9:58

in Ontario and he

10:00

sponsored all of our families and we were like

10:02

, wow , people , wow , he

10:04

sponsored all of us and we lived in Chatham for

10:06

three years or four years before my

10:09

grandparents were like this is too cold . We

10:11

moved to Vancouver . But

10:14

yeah , it was one of those crazy stories . And

10:16

so growing up I remember my parents valued

10:18

work Like I've talked about this before

10:20

on my LinkedIn , but my parents work

10:22

was like if they were working , that's

10:25

the way to go . And even to this day , my dad's

10:27

like if you take a year off of work , you're so

10:29

behind work like you're so behind

10:32

in the Canadian culture and to me

10:34

I always , growing up , was like why are my parents

10:36

at these performances ? Why are my

10:38

parents chaperoning field trips ? Why are my parents

10:40

dropping me off and picking me up ? At one

10:42

point I remember my mom arranged for a taxi

10:44

company to pick us up by sister and I

10:46

at elementary school to drive us to

10:48

our grandparents' house because she was working and my

10:51

dad was working . So I remember from a young

10:53

age just feeling like when I become a mom

10:55

I'm going to be there for all these moments

10:57

because my parents are lovely and I love

10:59

them , but like they valued

11:02

work over , you

11:04

know , being present and they still do that to this day , and

11:06

that's . I feel , like part of the immigrant journey

11:09

and the story , and so for me that

11:11

conversation really dug deep

11:13

. For me because I'm okay . Like

11:15

if I go mad school , like I'm fully

11:18

in and I'm fully committing and

11:20

I have my personality . Type is that

11:22

when I commit to something , I don't just like half commit , I

11:24

have to go all in and I want to

11:26

be president , do it all . So

11:29

just knowing that , knowing that that was not

11:31

going to be for me , that's why I decided , like

11:33

just to go straight into the master's program

11:35

right away . Like I think I took

11:37

a summer semester and we had a two week semester

11:40

break . Yeah , at the end of

11:42

that two weeks I was starting the master's program

11:44

. Like I did not take a break at all , I

11:46

just wanted to like do it and get it

11:48

over with and just start a career .

11:50

Yeah , that's awesome . And

11:52

then what happened after graduation

11:55

? Were you able to figure out , like

11:57

, where you wanted to start your public

11:59

health career , like , did those ideas start

12:01

to come together for you , or

12:04

did you already have that kind of mapped out before starting

12:06

the MPH program , or was that something that kind

12:08

of developed throughout ?

12:10

Well , I was really lucky in the sense that when

12:12

I finished the last semester of my undergrad

12:14

, I started already applying for jobs and putting

12:16

feelers out and I was realizing that the

12:19

market was really tough . At that time . There

12:21

was not a lot of public health jobs . And

12:23

the public health team was like six people

12:25

for a whole provincial health

12:27

authority , and so I started just

12:29

thinking , like you know , what could I do ? And I got a job

12:32

with kids' health phone and I was working

12:34

with them and it was around children's mental health which was

12:36

an area I was really passionate about . And

12:39

at that same time I thought to myself you

12:41

know what if I just go in

12:43

as like an administrative staff and then see

12:45

if I could change course afterwards ? So

12:48

I started doing some research online and

12:50

I found someone that was

12:52

kind of built a temporary pool of

12:55

people to do various

12:57

jobs across the authority . So

12:59

I connected with her and I

13:02

went from like a full-time , secure , stable job

13:04

to like she gave me a one-week

13:06

assignment , like she's

13:09

actually extended to three weeks by the

13:11

end of like the offer . But she's like , yeah

13:13

, come work for three weeks . And I said , well

13:15

, what if I don't have work after three weeks ? She's like you're

13:18

just gonna have to jump in with two feet and figure it out . And

13:20

I was like , oh my gosh , like

13:22

that's so scary to me , right and so

13:24

right as I'm finishing my degree , I

13:27

jumped ship and I went

13:29

to take this three week assignment and

13:32

I was lucky enough that in that three

13:34

week assignment , you know , I met

13:36

so many people and I connected with so many

13:38

people and I really put out feelers and

13:41

I got people to take me as

13:43

person named Andrew , who

13:45

was my director . He's still like I'm still talking

13:47

with him . He was such an amazing soul . He

13:49

and I connected . He's like yeah , why don't you come and

13:52

be my assistant for a month ? And I

13:54

said , okay . So he went in and I was

13:56

his assistant for a month and he was the director of population

13:58

of public health and he said

14:00

I have a little bit of funding , I'm going to

14:03

create a job for you and I want you to stay

14:05

working with me . So he created

14:07

a project coordinator position and

14:09

I got to work with him and I got to do

14:11

that while I was doing my master's degree and

14:14

he said to me I'm going to

14:16

support you doing your master's degree , do

14:18

your courses during work hours I'm

14:20

okay with that Do your practicum

14:22

project here , do your thesis project

14:24

here and create initiatives

14:27

that we could work with . So

14:29

it was really like I feel like he was like my guardian

14:31

angel , because he really helped me out . So

14:33

I was lucky enough that I got to do my master's

14:36

degree while working full time .

14:38

That's incredible . What was the role

14:40

that you were doing at Kids Help Online ? Because

14:43

you said that was a permanent job .

14:45

I was a coordinator so I was

14:47

working with them for all their initiatives , so

14:51

getting community involvement , working

14:53

with the schools . There was a couple fundraising

14:55

initiatives they had that I worked with them . Fund

14:59

development really just getting the word

15:01

out about , because Kids Help Online is based out

15:03

in Toronto . Now they're huge

15:06

right , but when . I started a decade ago , they

15:08

were very heavily in Toronto and

15:10

Ontario and in the West they weren't

15:13

as well known , and

15:15

so they were just sort of starting to establish

15:17

that knowledge base . Now

15:19

they're just such a great organization and I

15:22

such an affinity to them and the work

15:24

that they're doing , what they're doing for

15:26

kids , is just so special .

15:28

That story is incredible , you know , for you

15:31

, for taking that leap and really

15:33

trusting your instinct , all

15:35

on the motivation of really joining that

15:37

Organization that you wanted to be a part

15:39

of , right , I'm sure a lot

15:41

of people kind of go through that Mental

15:44

block of like , should I let

15:46

go of this like stable income , to

15:49

try something out for three weeks

15:51

, or one week when you started , and

15:53

then potentially going to three weeks and then

15:55

, yeah , and seeing where that goes

15:57

, what do you , what do you think helped you with that ?

15:59

I think it was just having very clear direction

16:02

, like I had a very Direction

16:04

of what I wanted to do , where I wanted

16:06

to go . I knew the masters program

16:08

was pending , like I knew was starting

16:10

soon . I knew I had to do a

16:12

thesis and I had to do a practicum project

16:14

, which meant like I would already have to leave this

16:16

job and I didn't know if I had

16:18

the support to leave the job for three

16:21

months to Do my work for my master's

16:23

degree . So , honestly

16:25

, it was just like something I just did on the whim

16:27

, because I was . I'm just gonna do this and

16:29

see what happened , you know , and yeah

16:31

, and it was definitely a huge risk for me

16:33

, but it really worked out . I'm so grateful

16:36

for it .

16:37

Awesome . A few episodes ago

16:39

I was talking to Tasha

16:41

and we were talking about taking bold

16:43

steps in your career and then she

16:46

told me about dropping into

16:48

like community health fairs just to

16:50

see if she could meet Individuals

16:53

who actually worked in the like the department

16:55

. Right , the health fairs weren't meant to be career

16:58

fairs , they were meant for the community because they were doing

17:00

all these programming . But she just like showed

17:02

up and then was bold to ask them for

17:04

an email or a phone number and then I think

17:06

she said for three or six months just emailed

17:09

the the person in order to like

17:11

then eventually land a Career

17:13

or a job with them and then eventually

17:15

built up her like almost a decade

17:17

career there . So you know , this also

17:19

reminds me of that conversation where

17:22

you sometimes can

17:24

benefit when you take those bold steps , and

17:27

then I think it's probably

17:29

you then like being really active

17:31

in that three week opportunity to see

17:33

, like what else you could find for yourself there

17:35

.

17:36

Yeah , no , that's amazing . Yeah , and sometimes

17:39

you have to do those creative things , you have to do those

17:41

creative approaches and yeah

17:43

, and really just putting yourself out there and that

17:46

sort of reminds me of like , like , how I got

17:48

into consulting is still through that project

17:50

coordinator job . One of my

17:52

tasks was we had , like I said , six

17:54

as team of six . We had six project managers

17:56

and they were hiring consultants

17:58

all the time , and so one of my jobs

18:01

was to work with the project

18:03

manager and the consultant , get all the onboarding

18:05

documents , get all the procurement documents in

18:07

place and submit it for a PO

18:09

, so hire the consultants

18:11

. And it was through that that I started

18:13

to look at , like , what people did

18:16

, what they were consulting and how

18:18

they actually delivered their work . So

18:20

it's so heavily and so closely with them

18:22

and the impact that consultants were

18:24

making on projects or

18:26

an organization . And it was from

18:28

like that inside that I was like , oh

18:31

, this is such an interesting career . And

18:33

in my conversations with consultants I

18:35

would ask those questions like I know I'm

18:37

hiring you , could you tell me a little bit

18:39

about how'd you get into consulting ? What

18:41

do you do ? Why did you decide to do this

18:43

? Why not doing something else and

18:45

and just learning more

18:48

about them and their journey and really

18:50

what got them into consulting , and that's really

18:53

the how the seeds got planted

18:55

For me to join and

18:58

become a consultant as well .

18:59

I think every Story

19:02

you're sharing here with me , like each

19:04

phase of your life , it sounds like you're

19:06

somebody who's like always forward

19:08

, thinking about like where you want to

19:10

take your career and the

19:12

the steps that you're taking Presently

19:15

is in alignment with that , and

19:17

I don't know if you , if you've done that intentionally

19:20

all your life , and it sounds like you have , because I think

19:22

you you mentioned that a little bit , but

19:24

yeah , it's a really smart way

19:26

of doing things and I I sometimes

19:29

talk about like strategic networking

19:31

and essentially like what you are doing is okay

19:34

. I know I would enjoy consulting at

19:36

some point in my life , so let me start talking to

19:38

the consultant so they could give me that guidance

19:40

, right ? So , yeah , I don't know if you have anything

19:42

more to add to that .

19:44

Yeah , it's , it's . I appreciate you saying that

19:46

because I don't know it's . It's

19:48

a weird story I share , so some people don't

19:50

believe it . It's because it's unbelievable . But

19:53

I have a mentor and a couple years ago

19:55

he asked me this question like what's

19:57

the vision , like , picture your life

19:59

?

20:00

when you .

20:01

Accomplish what you want . And for

20:03

some reason there's this been this image in my head

20:05

since I was really young and it was me

20:08

in a garden of

20:10

like a big backyard and

20:13

there's a table and

20:15

two chairs and I sit there and I

20:17

have my coffee every morning and then I'm

20:19

looking out and I see my house

20:21

and I see my kids running around and

20:23

I see this garden and sometimes we like

20:25

plant in the garden , but this is just like this

20:27

image I had and I invite people to

20:30

come have coffee with me . I do meetings

20:32

there , interviews , whatever it is , but

20:34

like I just I'm always at this table , this chair

20:36

, underneath the willow tree in this

20:38

garden . And shortly

20:41

after I shared that vision with him , I went

20:43

on Facebook and you know how they say they listen

20:45

to you . So that exact

20:48

image showed up from

20:50

this artist who does puzzles and

20:52

she takes these pictures and she creates

20:54

these puzzles and I literally

20:57

looked at that and I was like , oh my gosh , am

20:59

I dreaming right now or is this for real ? Of

21:01

course I bought the puzzle I

21:05

cannot do puzzles for life for me but I finished

21:08

that one within a day and I framed it

21:10

and it sits in my office and I look at

21:12

it every day because that's the image

21:14

that I have had , that's sort of my

21:16

North Star . When you say I make decisions

21:19

, it's really to create

21:22

that life for myself where I could do that

21:24

and for me . I

21:26

remember finishing university

21:29

, finishing a master's degree and being like oh no , I

21:31

have to get up at 8am every day

21:33

, or 7am , and go to work . I

21:36

have to do that over and over and over

21:38

, and I'm not one that likes repetitive

21:40

work . I like risk , I like things

21:42

that change all the time . So

21:45

that's been something that I always knew I didn't want to do

21:47

, that . I don't want to do the 9 to 5

21:49

every day . I wanted

21:51

flexibility to just do crazy

21:53

things and take

21:55

my family and go live somewhere else for

21:57

a year , if I wanted to Just

22:00

more flexibility in my time has really

22:02

been my compass in

22:04

life and just this image . So , yeah

22:06

, everything that I do do , everything that I do

22:08

build even though it's taking

22:10

away from that image and maybe taking

22:13

more time than it should from my family it's

22:15

all for that goal of building that

22:18

image .

22:18

I really like that and

22:21

I don't know how long it took for you to dream

22:23

up that image in your head . I feel

22:25

like I have a version of

22:28

an image in my head , but it still hasn't

22:30

become as clear as you

22:32

are explaining yours , and I think for

22:35

any of our listeners who are like , oh man , where's

22:37

my image ? I think it can take a little bit of time , right

22:39

, but you have to keep asking yourself

22:41

what is it that I want for myself , what

22:44

is the career I'm trying to build

22:46

for myself ? And I like to think about

22:48

it as like what is that like dream

22:51

public health career ? And I like to think about it as

22:53

separate from just a job that you're looking

22:55

for , right , a dream job versus a dream

22:57

life and career , which I think are connected

22:59

, regardless of what we say . They're

23:02

so intertwined and especially

23:04

in public health , I think we get into it because there's

23:07

this like passion to serve

23:09

the communities that we are part of , and

23:12

creating that image

23:14

for yourself , or the life that you want to

23:16

build , can take some time , but

23:18

you have to keep thinking about it and then eventually

23:20

you think it'll come to be

23:23

like the image that you're explaining

23:25

here .

23:26

Yeah , exactly yeah . You just need to keep digging

23:28

deeper , you need to get better here . There's

23:30

definitely moments in time where I'm like there's

23:33

things that creep in and I'm like , oh , that would

23:35

be a cool career , that would be cool

23:37

. I'm like going up the corporate ladder

23:39

, that's really cool . And

23:42

I actually had this conversation with my husband recently

23:44

. With my day job , I work in overdose . I

23:47

lead some of the initiatives around overdose , the

23:49

overdose crisis and

23:51

responding to it , and there was recently

23:53

in BC there was an article that came out

23:55

around safer , prescribed alternatives

23:58

and I was a part of the team that

24:00

created that pilot project just before I went on that

24:02

leave and I said to my husband I was like this

24:04

is like the part that's so cool

24:06

that feeds into the ego of like I was a part

24:09

of that team . Look at it , look

24:11

at it , it's on the news , that's so cool , like

24:13

Bonnie Henry's talking about it and

24:15

I said but when you branch off into consulting

24:18

, you don't necessarily get that . Or

24:20

you branch off into entrepreneurship , you

24:22

don't necessarily get that . You lose

24:24

a sense of identity and you lose a sense

24:26

of like who am I ? you know , like

24:28

who am I ? I'm not . I don't know if it's title

24:31

, I don't have this , I don't know if that and I , when

24:33

I said to him , I was like that sometimes is like a fear

24:35

that holds me back in maintaining my job

24:37

and not quitting , of course

24:40

, other than finances , because

24:42

I started to keep my job , but . But

24:44

there's those sort of things that creep in and

24:46

cloud image for you . But

24:49

it just takes a lot of self-reflecting

24:51

and a lot of like digging deep . And that's why

24:53

I bought the puzzle in this image , cause I was

24:55

like if it's right in front of me , like

24:57

I'll always see it and I'll always remember it and it's

24:59

not going to get clouded as as if it's

25:01

just in my head . So , if you have an

25:03

image , I would recommend just drawing it

25:05

out even if it doesn't look pretty , writing

25:08

it down . But there's moments in time where

25:10

, like , we get the image , it like seems

25:12

clear and then it goes back to being blurry . It's

25:15

like if focus is in and then you

25:17

lose focus , right . So yeah

25:20

, that's what I would recommend for people , because yeah

25:22

, it's those images that will really drive you forward in your questions

25:24

and also I feel really fortunate

25:26

that I've had certain people come into my life

25:28

, that I've come across , that have said certain

25:31

things that have always stuck with me that have been

25:33

very clear , and one story

25:35

that I'll share is that is one of the

25:37

risks I took actually after that project

25:39

coordinator job was I jumped

25:41

into risk management and I

25:44

do not know risk management . I don't know nothing

25:46

about risk management , but I

25:48

took on this new role and I spent

25:50

three months and , just like learned as

25:52

much as I could about it and it was around healthcare and

25:55

I realized it's not too far off public health

25:57

, because it's all about prevention and promoting

26:00

from a risk perspective for the health authority

26:02

. But in that I met someone

26:04

that was the CEO of our cancer agency

26:07

at one point and he was a vice president

26:09

too and he had just trained someone . And

26:12

he said he's like , this person

26:14

that I just trained has the same job title as me and

26:17

he goes the writing is on the wall that I'm being

26:19

let go . It's just nobody's told

26:21

me yet . But he had been there for over 27

26:23

years and he was a physician . He took

26:25

all the administrative roles . Anytime they

26:28

needed someone to jump into a role as an interim

26:30

, he did it . He had

26:32

dedicated his life to the organization

26:34

and that sort of was his like wake

26:37

up call of like I spent all

26:39

these years , sacrificed everything to be here For

26:43

this place and this is how I'm

26:45

being thanked at the end . And

26:47

he looked at me and he goes

26:49

one of the biggest risks in life

26:51

is taking the risk of not

26:54

being true to yourself or not doing what you want

26:56

because you want to please a

26:58

company or an organization like an entity . And

27:01

he said that was like a risk he took and

27:03

something that he at that point he

27:06

was saying he regretted because there

27:08

were some things along the way that he wanted to do but

27:10

he never jumped in because he was too scared

27:12

and he also didn't want to let down the company

27:14

. So that's something that always sticks with me

27:16

, because I'm , like I always worry about

27:18

losing what I want . You

27:21

know , being almost like a people pleaser , like

27:23

making sure that I do things for the betterment

27:26

of the company , versus I'm

27:28

doing something that I want to do , and

27:30

so him sharing that with me was , you

27:32

know , another thing that like really changed

27:35

my perspective of what is it that

27:37

I want to do . Do I want to have loyalty

27:39

? Do I want to , like sacrifice my personal time

27:42

, my family time , for a company

27:44

or for an organization that

27:46

? You know ? I always say this to people . But

27:48

you know , if you were , you know , god forbid

27:50

, if you were to die tomorrow , your job is

27:52

posted and a new person is going to

27:54

take your job , but your family is going to miss you , your

27:57

friends are going to miss you , your dreams are

27:59

going to be left unfulfilled , you

28:01

know and so it's scary

28:04

. And it's scary taking risks

28:06

, especially in my entrepreneur world

28:08

, like building my consulting business

28:11

or building the successful candidate

28:13

and the consulting nest . It's

28:15

scary because I sometimes think like

28:17

I'll just you know , I just posted this on my LinkedIn

28:20

yesterday but like there's so many times

28:22

that I'm like this is too hard , like to build something

28:24

, I'm just going to fold it , I'm going to quit

28:26

, I'm just going to maintain my job . And

28:28

like I go to work , I come home , it's all good

28:31

. Yeah realize that . You

28:33

know I don't want to just do that . I want to control

28:36

my hours , I want to control

28:38

what I'm doing , when I'm doing it , how I'm doing it

28:40

. I want to have untapped potential

28:42

in me personally , but in my

28:44

salary and how I build my

28:46

skills , all that stuff , and that's

28:49

why I'm doing it . It's tough , it's hard , but

28:52

you know you have to take these risks sometimes because

28:54

it is worth it in the end

28:56

and , honestly , nothing that's

28:58

worth it is ever easy Like that's such a cliche

29:01

thing to say but it's very true

29:03

Nothing worth while

29:05

is easy .

29:06

Would you say that was the conversation

29:09

that kind of got you kick started

29:11

into jumping into consulting

29:13

, like I know you

29:15

. You started dabbling into it and kind

29:17

of taking on some of your own projects at some

29:20

point .

29:21

Yeah , definitely . I think it was what

29:23

I was looking for and what we're taught to look for

29:25

is a full-time job , right . And I knew I

29:27

was like , okay , I want to be a project manager . But

29:29

these six friends of mine who were like we're

29:31

, we got really really close to that team and I still

29:34

talk to them and it was like they

29:36

were amazing people . They were never going

29:38

to leave their jobs , you know , because there wasn't

29:40

another job to go to right

29:42

, and now it's probably called expanded

29:44

, so there's lots of jobs , but at that time they

29:47

basically didn't have another role to go

29:49

to right . There was one director role

29:51

, six project managers , so the natural

29:53

progression was the director leaves or

29:56

goes up and then they go into

29:58

one person goes into that role . But

30:00

that wasn't going to happen and I and so

30:02

I did get into consulting because I just looked at

30:04

like if I'm not going to work in public

30:06

health , I can't find a job in public

30:08

health and this is another way that I could do

30:11

public health work at that time . And

30:13

when I jumped into risk management , it

30:15

was really because I couldn't find anything

30:18

else in public health and we

30:20

had a new director at that time and she came

30:22

from risk management . She said to me she goes , it's

30:24

not that different , and she

30:26

goes . You will have such an impact in

30:28

making a change from

30:31

a risk perspective because the initiative that

30:33

I worked on was brand new

30:35

and it was called integrated risk management

30:37

or enterprise risk management , but it was building

30:39

a reporting system

30:41

for the entire health authority

30:43

where we looked at risk

30:46

from a proactive perspective . But

30:48

what do you envision happening and how can we minimize

30:50

that impact and minimize the consequences

30:52

if it did happen ? It

30:54

was amazing , but I really , at the

30:56

end of that , I missed , you

30:58

know , public health and I missed being in public

31:01

health . And that's when I jumped ship

31:03

to another health authority and

31:05

I did take a pay cut and a title cut

31:07

, like I went from a manager and I was meeting

31:09

with CEOs and executives to

31:12

a policy analyst role in another

31:14

health authority , but it was

31:16

a policy analyst in the health equity team . I

31:19

was coming back sort of like home to what I

31:21

really wanted to do and then moved

31:23

into overdose after that , but

31:26

it was . It's just always just taking risks

31:28

, just doing , doing the thing to

31:30

do to get to where you want , and not feeling

31:32

like you're stuck on one path

31:35

, like you're always competitive . You can always change

31:37

, you can always . Nothing is ever forever

31:39

. So like if you move through another role and you

31:41

don't like it . You can always go to a different one

31:44

, you can come back to a different , you

31:46

know role on doing the stuff you were

31:48

doing previously , but I think

31:50

that's a piece that people in their careers always worry

31:52

about is things that things are permanent , and

31:56

I personally feel like nothing is ever permanent

31:58

.

31:59

I heard that advice early on . It's like

32:01

a lot of the steps

32:03

or actions you take are often reversible

32:05

, so don't don't like get stuck

32:07

in . Like am I making the perfect

32:10

choice right now in my career , Right so

32:12

? I've always kind of like held on to

32:14

that . Okay , so let's

32:17

talk a little bit about what you're trying to do

32:19

with consulting Nest , and then we'll

32:22

also kind of link up all the the

32:25

, the websites that people can check

32:27

out more information , including your LinkedIn

32:29

page , so that they can follow along on your journey

32:31

as well . So , yeah , I think , like

32:33

talking about that North Star , the vision

32:35

that you have for consulting Nest , I think it's

32:37

a good place to start .

32:39

Yeah , thank you . And so when I started consulting

32:41

and doing this work I'm in addition to working

32:44

full time I had a lot of people , like

32:46

colleagues , saying to me like , hey , could you

32:48

tell me how you do it ? Tell me , what are you consulting

32:50

? How'd you get into it ? You

32:52

helped me with these proposals or can you help me

32:55

establish myself ? And I just naturally

32:57

started doing that , mentoring and coaching

32:59

people that I knew , and it

33:01

was in 2016

33:03

, when I had this , or 2017 , actually , when I had

33:06

this idea . I was , like my sister's

33:08

, an accountant , so she was telling me she could get

33:10

little side projects on

33:12

Upcork or Fiverr a

33:14

couple other business related

33:16

websites and I thought to myself . I was like

33:19

there's nothing for public health professionals , people

33:22

that are working government and healthcare and

33:24

nonprofits to share

33:27

that knowledge . And we and people that work in those

33:29

industries . They're so knowledgeable , they

33:31

have so much to offer . You know

33:33

, it'd be cool if there was a website or

33:35

a platform where people could

33:38

post what they offer . Like I'm

33:40

a consultant , I , this is what I consult in , here's

33:42

what I can offer . You and

33:45

organizations can go on this platform

33:47

and see all these people and be

33:49

able to connect with them and get to know them

33:51

that they wouldn't normally connect with or get

33:54

to know , but also for

33:56

consultants , that they could find

33:58

contracts or find opportunities and

34:01

be able to apply just like a job for

34:03

consulting opportunities more effectively

34:06

and quickly , as opposed

34:08

to this networking and a bit

34:10

of an elitism around consulting where

34:12

only the people that you know get projects

34:15

or when you're circled get projects . And

34:17

so that's what I set out to build in 2020

34:20

. So I had my daughter , so I put that

34:22

project on hold for a little while , but in

34:24

2020 , I was like I'm going to do this

34:26

, I'm going to build this project . So

34:29

I built the marketplace , I built

34:31

a beta version of it and I brought

34:33

on consultants and I worked with

34:35

the consultants , coached them and mentioned them

34:37

, and we were able to get people matched

34:39

up in projects and consulting

34:41

. So that's what I'm continuing to do with . The

34:43

consulting nest is I want to create a place

34:45

where professionals can learn

34:48

to become consultants . They can learn

34:50

the ins and outs of the business . They can learn how

34:52

to do consulting projects . They can learn a

34:54

lot around alignment and resiliency

34:57

and their mindset around consulting

34:59

and that they can have a place where

35:01

they're supported , where they could post like here's

35:03

what I offer , here's what I can do

35:05

for you , and that organizations

35:08

that are coming on and seeing they could connect

35:10

with them directly . But also they

35:12

could post their projects that consultants

35:14

can see and apply

35:16

for and work on , and

35:19

so it's a place that people can connect and learn

35:21

to be consultants . And I always

35:23

say it's a way to accelerate your knowledge sharing

35:25

. That creates flexible work options so

35:27

you can share your knowledge and

35:29

you can create flexibility for yourself . And

35:32

so that's sort of what I'm doing with the consulting

35:35

nest and that's what I'm building

35:37

out .

35:38

That's awesome . We'll be sure to link

35:40

it out because I know there's a lot more coming

35:42

with the consulting nest and

35:44

I think it's a 2.0 version , and I

35:46

think I liked how you framed it , like teaching

35:50

individuals in these kind of different

35:52

areas to become consultants

35:54

. I think that's like a big part of it as

35:56

well , and then the marketplace is going to help connect

35:58

organizations and individuals . So

36:02

best wishes on that . I think I'll be following

36:04

along personally on LinkedIn

36:06

and I hope our listeners will be as well

36:08

, and I think , as we

36:11

kind of wrap this episode up , any

36:13

parting words of wisdom that

36:15

you want to offer individuals

36:17

in terms of really kind of like . I think

36:19

the theme I got out of today's

36:21

conversation was like paving your

36:23

own path based on how you want to build your

36:25

life .

36:27

Yeah , I think , both

36:29

in my own consultancy , my career , the consulting

36:32

nest and the successful candidate course

36:34

that I have , the biggest thing that I always

36:36

tell people is that it's just

36:38

knowing your worth , like just knowing

36:40

that what you offer

36:42

is valuable to someone , to

36:44

some organization , to some

36:46

place . And I feel like sometimes

36:48

we don't know our own worth , we don't

36:51

know that what we actually possess

36:53

is valuable and our unique challenges

36:55

and you know , what I'll share as parting

36:57

words is what I tell my daughter all the time is that

37:00

you're the only you there is in this world

37:02

, like there is no one else

37:04

that is as unique as you , that has your

37:06

experiences , your approach

37:08

to life , like you're the only one

37:10

that was born to your parents

37:12

, that was raised in your city , that

37:15

has your name , that went

37:17

through school the way that you did . Like there's no

37:19

other person that has the same sequence

37:21

of events that , if you do , you are

37:24

and how you look at the world . So

37:26

just knowing that and knowing that because of that

37:28

, you have something to offer to the world

37:30

and it could be something that you're doing

37:32

right now . It could be something that you don't

37:35

know you're going to be doing very soon , but

37:37

tapping into that potential and just

37:39

always taking the risk , because , yeah

37:42

, it's always more reward when you take the risk

37:44

right .

37:44

I love it . I love it . Thank you so much , Anjiza

37:47

.

37:47

Yeah , thank you so much for having me .

37:53

Hey , I hope you enjoyed that episode and

37:55

if you want to get the links or information

37:57

mentioned in today's episode , you can head

38:00

over to phspotorg slash

38:02

podcast and we'll have everything

38:04

there for you . And before you go

38:06

, I want to tell you about the Public Health Career

38:09

Club . So if you've been looking

38:11

for a place to connect and build

38:13

meaningful relationships with other public

38:15

health professionals from all

38:18

around the world , you should join us in the Public

38:20

Health Career Club . We launched

38:22

the club with the vision of becoming the

38:24

number one hangout spot dedicated

38:26

to building and growing your dream public

38:28

health career . And in addition

38:30

to being able to connect and build

38:33

those meaningful relationships with other

38:35

public health professionals , the club also

38:37

offers other great resources for

38:39

your career growth and success , like

38:42

mindset coaching , job preparation clinics

38:44

and career growth strategy sessions

38:46

in the form of trainings and talks , all

38:48

delivered by experts and inspiring

38:51

individuals in these areas . So

38:53

if you want to learn more or want to join the

38:55

club , you can visit our

38:57

page at phspotorg slash

39:00

club and we'll have all the information there

39:02

. And you know , as a space

39:04

that's being intentionally curated to

39:06

bring together like minded public health professionals

39:09

who are not only there

39:11

to push themselves to become the best

39:13

versions of themselves , but also each other . And

39:17

with that I can't wait to see

39:20

how this is going to have a ripple effect

39:22

in the world , as we all work together to

39:24

better the health of our populations

39:26

and just have immense impact

39:28

in the world . And I hope you'll be joining

39:30

us in the Public Health Career Club .