0:00

This episode and the entire rest

0:02

of this season is proudly brought

0:04

to you by Pregnant Together, a

0:06

virtual community for queer folks, solo

0:08

parents, and anyone who's ever felt

0:10

different through the process of growing

0:12

your family. Run by queer midwife,

0:14

Mariah Goodman, the community offers

0:17

tons of resources for every stage

0:19

of family building, from trying to

0:21

conceive to parenting. You get monthly

0:24

live support groups, you get access

0:26

to advice from a queer healthcare

0:28

provider, and best of all, you

0:31

get connection with a community of folks

0:33

going through the same ups and downs that

0:35

you are. I love this. I really do.

0:38

And guess what? Listeners of the Queer Family

0:40

Podcast get their first month for free, y'all.

0:43

So you're going to click the link in

0:45

our show notes to get your free month

0:47

and get started now. Come on, build

0:50

that community. And to learn more

0:52

about it, you can check out www.pregnanttogether.com.

0:56

Go get in those communities, y'all.

0:59

Love is love is love on

1:01

the Queer Family Podcast. Love is love.

1:04

I think just saying because you have

1:06

a genetic predisposition for something doesn't

1:08

mean that you should not have

1:11

the opportunity to contribute your

1:14

genetic material. And

1:16

then, yeah, it comes down to

1:18

giving people the choices that they want

1:20

when building their family, just like race.

1:22

And you've talked about race on this

1:24

podcast a lot. And I just wanted

1:26

to bring that disability aspect to it

1:29

too, that those choices are even more

1:33

limited. I don't think we're going

1:35

to find a donor with a disability. Welcome

1:37

to the Queer Family Podcast, the show

1:39

all about family, but with gay. My

1:43

name is Jamie. I'm your host. And you,

1:45

my friends, are tuning into the show whose

1:47

mission is to highlight, celebrate,

1:50

uplift, and normalize LGBTQIA plus

1:52

families and all of our

1:55

beautiful identities. And

1:57

this episode, of course, does just that. I

1:59

had the pleasure. sitting down with

2:01

Jennifer and Vanessa. They had

2:03

reached out a while back because they were

2:05

a bit triggered by a couple of episodes

2:08

I aired titled Diving Deep Into Donor Conception

2:10

with Lisa the Therapist and Dr. Mark, which

2:13

was all about donor conception, as you can

2:15

imagine. And they were a little bit triggered

2:17

because in the episode, my two

2:19

guests stressed very highly that

2:21

you should check medical records first

2:23

before going with anything else when

2:25

you're searching for a donor. And

2:28

so they wrote me this long,

2:30

beautiful email where they explained, you

2:32

know, Jennifer has a disability

2:34

and when it comes to the

2:36

donor pool, they wanted to make the

2:39

point that not everybody wants to

2:41

weed out certain genetics and who

2:43

are the banks or the powers in charge

2:46

or whatever. Who are they to

2:48

say which donors get through versus which donors

2:50

don't? Who are they to decide for

2:52

us on what kind of donor choices we

2:55

get? And I found it interesting.

2:57

I said, you know what, why don't you come

2:59

on and let's talk about this. Let's talk about

3:01

this in an episode. So we did. And it

3:03

was a really, it's a really interesting conversation that

3:06

turned basically into a kind of an argument for

3:08

true inclusion, which is something I care deeply about.

3:10

And if you listen to this show, you probably

3:12

do too. So I'm not going to say anything

3:14

more about it. It's a wonderful conversation. I can't

3:16

wait for you to hear it. I'm

3:19

going to end this intro a little bit

3:21

earlier than normal because I actually have the

3:23

flu and I'm sick as a dog right

3:25

now. I'm laughing through it,

3:27

but I got to get back in bed. And

3:29

let me just say shout out to

3:31

my wife because I've had a fever for

3:34

four days now and my wife

3:36

has picked up. I usually do the school

3:39

drop off and school pickup and you know,

3:41

all the things that have to do with

3:43

the kids in the day to day thing

3:45

on Monday through Friday. And she has

3:47

taken it like a champ, like shout out

3:49

to, I'm going to say gay parents, but

3:51

I know it's not just gay parents. I know

3:54

non-queer parents do this as well, but this

3:56

is a love letter to my wife right now. Thank

3:59

you. Thank you. Thank you, Ann, for

4:01

picking up the slack and helping me

4:03

out and letting me lay in bed

4:05

in Wawa in misery for the past

4:07

four days. And

4:10

as soon as I stop rolling this tape, I

4:12

am going to get right back in bed. So

4:14

thank you, Ann. Thank you all for tuning in.

4:16

I hope you enjoy this episode, and

4:19

I will see you next week, hopefully, in a

4:21

much better state. All right, Helen, Bula.

4:23

They, you know what? Helen

4:26

and Bula have really picked up the slack, too. Now I'm

4:28

just feverishly talking. They've really picked up the slack, too. I

4:31

mean, they even made me a cup of coffee this

4:33

morning. Can you believe that? Made me a cup of

4:35

coffee. They made it wrong, but still, they're making efforts,

4:37

too. And Nicole, as well. Everybody,

4:39

everybody, my whole community, please roll that

4:41

tape. Thank you so much. Queer family

4:43

podcast, love is love. Hi, Vanessa and Jennifer. Hi.

4:46

It is nice to have you. We're happy to be

4:48

here. Thanks for having us. Why don't we get right into it? I'm

4:50

so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so

4:52

happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy

4:54

to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to

4:56

be here. Yes. Why don't we get

4:58

right into your 32nd elevator

5:01

post of who you are, why you're here talking

5:03

to the Queer Fam Squad. I'm putting the timer

5:05

up. I will never cut you off. Are we

5:07

ready? Ready. Okay.

5:10

On your marks. Get set. Go. Hi.

5:14

My name is Jennifer. I am

5:16

a 35-year-old cis lesbian woman. And

5:19

I'm Vanessa, and I'm a 34-year-old cis

5:21

lesbian woman. And

5:23

we are trying to get pregnant with

5:25

my egg and your

5:27

body and my body. Yep. That's

5:30

the other half of it. Via IUI. That's it.

5:32

Under time. That was awesome.

5:34

Did you practice that? Attempted to. Attempted to in

5:37

the car. Good job. Good

5:39

job. All right. So it's a

5:42

couple of cisgendered lesbians living in the South

5:45

on your journey of getting pregnant

5:48

via donor sperm and IUI. Okay. Let's

5:51

take it back. Let's take it

5:53

back a bit. Let's take it back to when you met. Sure.

5:57

So I am from Northern Virginia.

6:00

DC originally, grew up there, went

6:02

to school there, worked there for

6:04

about 10 years and then moved

6:06

down to Raleigh. And then when

6:08

I moved down, I was single

6:10

and ready to make. So

6:13

I was on the dating apps right

6:15

away. And that was in October 2020,

6:18

that I moved down here. And then

6:20

we met in January of 2021.

6:23

So still very much like peak COVID,

6:25

having to find like outdoor spots

6:28

to date. And because this is North

6:31

Carolina and Raleigh is like in the middle,

6:33

right? Like some places took it very seriously,

6:35

some places did not. So trying to find

6:37

venues for dates that did take COVID seriously.

6:40

Were you living that gay lifestyle before? Yes,

6:43

but I was very late to come out. I did

6:45

not even realize I was gay until I was 31.

6:47

So I had only dated one other

6:49

person seriously

6:52

before one other woman seriously before moving

6:54

down here. Yeah, I want to dig

6:56

into the fact that you didn't realize you were like,

6:58

can we take this a little bit? Resonate

7:02

with that. And it took me

7:04

a while to not as long as you know. Yeah,

7:08

no, I'm always happy to talk about that. Because

7:10

I think, you know, it

7:12

makes me realize how important representation

7:14

is. Like, you know,

7:16

did not have any

7:19

gay, queer people at all

7:21

in my life, except for one, which

7:23

is very sad. I think about him often, my mom had a

7:26

really good gay male friend from college, but he

7:28

passed away, I think when I was in the

7:30

sixth grade from AIDS. And so, you know, and

7:32

he was in New York, like I said, we

7:34

were in Northern Virginia. So I don't think I

7:37

ever met him in person. But he was really

7:39

good at origami and would always send me like

7:41

origami paper and things anyway. So

7:44

that was the only like queer person in my

7:46

life that I knew of. Yeah, it was just

7:49

very much like, everything was so

7:51

heteronormative, like, you're gonna grow up, date a man,

7:53

blah, blah, blah. And like, I never had that

7:55

vision, like, I could never envision it. Yeah, I

7:57

still to this day don't know what made me

7:59

do it. That's our dog in the

8:01

back. Our dogs have been already messing everything

8:04

up for us. So if you're watching the

8:06

video, dogs are everywhere. So I

8:08

had been with a guy for like

8:10

four and a half years. Like we

8:13

live together. We worked really well together,

8:15

but like ultimately, like it just

8:17

wasn't gonna work out long-term for various factors. So like

8:19

when I broke up with him, I

8:21

started dating guys again and then like to this

8:23

day, so I don't know what made

8:26

me do it, but I changed the settings

8:28

on my dating app to like men and

8:30

women. And then yeah, once I started dating

8:32

women, I was like, oh, this feels really

8:34

natural and I have no desire to keep

8:36

dating men. Like I don't see myself going

8:38

in that direction. Like this is way better.

8:42

So yeah, it was more of just like, I don't

8:44

know what made me try it, but as soon as

8:46

I tried it, I was like, this is me. My

8:48

wife's story is like kind of similar.

8:51

She was, so her work, she was like a

8:53

traveling work that she did for some time. She

8:56

was rooming with like one of her coworkers they

8:59

room together a lot. And then like,

9:01

the way she describes it, she's gonna be so annoyed at

9:03

me at me telling the story and I'm probably gonna get something

9:05

wrong and then she's gonna come home and be like, oh,

9:07

so that's how it happened. And then I'm gonna

9:09

have to figure out what the hell she's talking about because I recorded

9:11

this so long ago. Anyway, she was

9:14

laying in bed because they were roommates and

9:16

she just turned over one night and then

9:18

they just started kissing. She's

9:21

like, I don't know, I didn't even think about it. It just started

9:23

happening. I'm like, what? What? I

9:26

don't know, in turmoil the first time I kissed a

9:28

woman, like it was like a, okay, I'm gonna

9:31

do this. You know what I

9:33

mean? So it's just, listen, all of our

9:35

stories are that, why representation matters, there it

9:37

is. Yes, there it is.

9:39

Absolutely. Okay, so let's take it over

9:41

to you, Vanessa. Oh,

9:43

so I am from Charlotte, North Carolina. So really

9:46

not far from here. I

9:48

don't think I ever came out. I

9:50

have a gay older brother, it's just

9:52

the two of us and he did

9:54

all the hard work. He did

9:57

the sitting our parents down and coming

9:59

out. that went so well, it just

10:02

wasn't really a thing. And so I don't

10:05

know. And I work in, this

10:07

will be so stereotypical, but I work

10:09

in women's professional soccer, which is a

10:12

caveat. Not all of them

10:14

are lesbians, I promise. But it

10:16

would be nice if they were a cat. It would be, right.

10:19

So you never really came out, but

10:21

did you know you were gay your

10:23

whole- Yeah, I dated one

10:26

guy in high school. We dated for like five years, but

10:28

it felt very I

10:30

mean, I'm not going to discredit him at

10:32

all. He's a lovely human. And I think at 15,

10:35

you convince yourself because everybody tells you to,

10:37

but that's the path you're going to

10:39

go. And you're in love, but you're- I was not.

10:41

I mean, and then it

10:43

wasn't until college that I started figuring

10:46

myself out, but then I ended up moving.

10:48

I moved to West Virginia to work

10:50

and then Texas to work. And it just felt like

10:52

every move I had to go further and further into

10:55

the closet, because I didn't ever felt

10:57

safe, especially in Texas. And that was in 2015,

10:59

2016. So right as Trump

11:04

was being elected. Then I took the job in

11:06

North Carolina to be closer to home. And while

11:09

the environment for statewide

11:11

didn't always feel like the most

11:13

inclusive working in women's soccer did.

11:15

I mean, it truly, everybody

11:17

knew just, I guess, from the conversation with

11:20

me when I got to work. You're a

11:22

human soccer. The assumption is the opposite. Like

11:24

you're, you assume that everybody's just gay. You're

11:26

surprised when they're straight. You know what I

11:29

mean? Yeah. You're like, Oh, you have

11:31

a boyfriend? Oh, yeah. So when we

11:33

met and I knew that it was, it

11:38

was definitely something serious. And I

11:41

was head over heels that when I called my parents was

11:43

like, well, I am

11:45

bringing somebody home. Her name's Jennifer. And they're like,

11:47

great. Yeah, there

11:50

was never any never. So there wasn't really

11:52

a big deal about thing about it. Shout

11:54

out to my brother Eric for paving the

11:56

way. Good job. So much older than Eric.

11:58

Two and a half years. Oh,

12:01

okay. So like so you were pretty close

12:03

to an age Okay,

12:06

awesome. So you meet at a dating

12:08

app? Yeah bumble I

12:10

I've never done the dating apps because I'm

12:12

old and I'm also a serial monogamous

12:14

So I was I was not good

12:16

at it. I mean I will give

12:18

all credit to my best friend we

12:21

got on the dating apps at the same time she's

12:23

straight and we were just Messing

12:26

around really seeing what we could do and

12:28

I came across her profile and froze I

12:30

was like, oh wow and my best friend

12:33

is like just swipe and I was terrified

12:35

I was like, no, there's no way

12:37

I'm gonna swipe like it's just as

12:39

if that I did and it matched and I almost fell off

12:42

The bed. I was like no way. All

12:44

right, so you meet and It's

12:46

it you're in it to win it.

12:48

Is there a marriage? Do you get married? Yeah,

12:51

we're pretty typically lesbian and that like

12:53

we met in January of 2021 and

12:56

we were Married

12:58

in December of 2022. So you

13:01

haul situation. Yeah. Yeah I will say

13:03

like we started looking for engagement rings

13:05

like six months in it was it

13:07

was pretty fast. Yeah Who

13:10

proposed I did first cuz I

13:12

like I would like to yeah I

13:14

wanted to be that and then we went to our engagement Photo

13:17

shoot and she surprised me and proposed

13:19

back. So oh I love

13:21

how we'd be doing Your

13:24

folks. Yeah, that's fun. Okay, and I love

13:26

that you have to ask who proposed in

13:28

our room Yeah, yeah, well, you know, there's

13:30

so much to learn you get married you

13:32

do the thing and when

13:35

do babies I feel like babies were already talked

13:37

about and Like when did

13:39

the type of babies come in their second date

13:41

our second? Well, I think I don't think it

13:44

was like in the way of I want to have

13:46

kids right now It's more like I'm gonna test the

13:48

waters and see because if we're not compatible

13:50

in this we're gonna have to walk away

13:52

Right. And so I think one of us

13:54

broached the subject about how we both

13:57

Really had a strong urge to adopt. I I

14:00

had always felt that way. I had, I

14:02

don't know what it is. I've always felt like adoption

14:04

is, or was gonna be

14:06

the route that I wanted to take. And

14:08

so then when I brought it up with her and she said

14:10

the same thing, I was like, is this normal

14:13

or real? Or like, what

14:15

are the chances that we had found each other

14:17

in that sense? Yeah, I mean,

14:19

my experience with both dating men and

14:22

women, it was impossible to find somebody

14:24

who was willing to have a non-biological

14:26

child and to find somebody who didn't

14:29

care about that at all. It was

14:31

like, finally. So yeah.

14:33

Oh, okay. That was amazing. Fast

14:36

forward. Yeah. Yeah.

14:38

Okay, got it. Yeah. Okay.

14:41

So it's interesting. I

14:43

think the state of

14:45

politics and definitely in the

14:47

South, we realized

14:50

that there is a real

14:52

fear of wanting to

14:54

make sure one of us was biologically tied

14:56

from a legal perspective to make sure that

14:58

like, I don't know

15:00

if we're all reacting or... Yeah,

15:03

I mean, I can provide some

15:05

historical perspective because I love

15:08

reading nonfiction and have learned

15:10

a lot about the Native

15:12

American population. And

15:15

up until the 70s, they were the 1970s, to be

15:17

clear. They

15:20

were still taking children from native

15:22

families and putting them in boarding schools.

15:26

And it's just to me, like

15:28

when Roe v. Wade got,

15:30

or not even when it got overturned, when it was leaked,

15:32

that it was going to be overturned. That's

15:34

when the conversation shifted for us because we're like,

15:37

we live in America, specifically

15:39

in the South. And

15:41

as a country, we've done this

15:44

once and it looks like we're taking steps backwards

15:46

instead of forwards. I don't

15:48

wanna put us in a position where

15:50

we bring a child into our home, fall

15:53

in love and have a family. And then

15:55

the government decides to intervene. And

15:58

yeah, like Vanessa said, I'm sure... of

16:00

people would say like you're overreacting, there's no way that

16:02

could happen. But I think,

16:04

you know, just knowing the

16:06

history of our country and you know, we'll

16:08

get into more of that from a different

16:11

perspective soon too in this conversation, but it

16:13

has helped us make decisions that

16:15

we're confident about as a family. And again,

16:17

like I totally understand if other people wouldn't

16:19

agree with that, but that's where we are.

16:21

It's not a risk you're

16:23

willing to take. And the fact is that it

16:26

is a risk. Like you can't deny

16:28

that that is a factor that you

16:30

too had to think about when you

16:32

started your baby, your family built this

16:35

journey. Right? Not fair.

16:38

Yeah. It's really screwed up.

16:40

And that's like, I'm feeling mad for

16:42

you that you didn't get to use

16:44

your chosen route, which is a really

16:47

great route. And in

16:49

my opinion, a noble route. And

16:51

you know, there's so many children who

16:54

need homes and all the things. I think

16:56

our overall goal and hope

16:59

that we're definitely put out in the universe now is that

17:02

we are able to get pregnant and

17:04

have, I know I'll have to go

17:06

through the adoption process and everything like

17:08

that, but she would

17:10

have the baby. And then after that,

17:12

we would open our home to more

17:14

of like a foster situation or foster

17:17

to adopt that we do know

17:19

that reunification is the goal in

17:21

those situations. And we're all

17:24

for that and supportive of that. We just would

17:26

like to provide a safe home

17:29

for kids because there are a lot of

17:32

children out there who need that. So I

17:35

think the goal would be to start and have

17:37

one and

17:39

then hopefully from there. Take

17:42

it as you go. You take it as you go. Yeah,

17:44

Vanessa was always more open to the foster

17:46

route. I was more of like, I at

17:49

least want one child that we

17:51

can call our own and raise throughout

17:54

the whole life cycle. And I also think

17:56

too, that like, this

17:58

may sound really weird, but. you know, I

18:00

think we need some like parenthood practice before

18:03

we open our home to like foster

18:05

kids. You know, at least if you start with a baby,

18:07

you can like figure it out and the baby won't

18:09

really know what's going on. But I'm

18:11

like, if we just start like go from zero to

18:13

bringing like a six year old in our house and

18:15

the six year old can definitely tell like you guys have

18:18

no idea what you're doing. I don't

18:20

think we're ever going to know what we're doing, but nobody

18:22

ever knows what they're doing. But I don't

18:24

want to put some poor foster kid who

18:26

already has enough going on in their lives

18:28

through us trying to figure out basic

18:30

parenting stuff. You say switch plans,

18:33

you pivot. We pivot and

18:37

kind of have

18:39

to start from scratch and figure out like, how

18:41

do we start the process? And actually,

18:44

that's how I came across your podcast

18:46

was I was looking for any sort

18:48

of information. And unfortunately, fortunately,

18:50

I don't know. There's only one

18:52

and you're an amazing podcast and you've helped

18:54

us so much. But I'm like, man, there's

18:57

nothing out there for us. It's

18:59

sparse. It's true. It's a sparse. Yeah,

19:01

more now. They're popping up.

19:04

But it's still a sparse landscape. Okay,

19:06

so you start listening to this here

19:08

show. And and what

19:11

do you do? Started reading books. Shout

19:14

out to you've had Liam on

19:16

your podcast, at least a couple times.

19:18

So read their book, Queer

19:20

Conceptions. Queer Conceptions. Thank you. And

19:23

the baby making for everybody. You

19:26

also have them on your podcast. Yeah. And

19:29

then we had to have the discussion,

19:31

I guess everybody has of carries.

19:33

It was another little fun wrinkle.

19:36

I was diagnosed with endometriosis a couple years

19:38

ago. I had to have

19:41

a very real

19:43

conversation with my doctor of plans.

19:45

I had the ablation surgery once.

19:48

They put an IUD in at that time, I am

19:51

somebody who can't have birth control. It

19:53

just no matter what it seems

19:55

to be, it makes me suicidal almost

19:57

like it just really messes with my

19:59

emotions. And so that

20:01

was the best option

20:04

to help you with endometriosis, but my

20:06

body just was rejecting it. And

20:09

so I had to have a really serious

20:12

conversation with myself and with her.

20:15

And ultimately I did choose to have a

20:17

hysterectomy, a total hysterectomy. I

20:20

had that in

20:22

August this year,

20:24

which was such a

20:26

weird feeling to have the

20:28

hysterectomy and then the very

20:31

next morning she had to go

20:33

to the clinic to have an ultrasound.

20:35

Like you were just starting the process. Second

20:41

or third. We

20:43

had been getting our feet wet

20:46

or had been trying for a little bit, but not

20:48

very long. And

20:50

so it was very weird. Yeah, totally.

20:52

That's an experience. And that's

20:54

also an experience that's pretty

20:56

unique to our queer families,

20:58

right? The beauty is

21:00

you have a wife who can carry

21:02

a child, which is beautiful. And then it's also,

21:04

you know, you don't have, you know, you got

21:07

a hysterectomy, so you don't even have the option.

21:09

And so you're going to watch your wife go

21:11

through it. So that's another aspect to think about.

21:14

I felt very good about the decision. I

21:17

struggled my whole life ever since I had

21:19

started my period. I really

21:21

struggled with it. And so to

21:24

make that decision wasn't hard for me because I knew

21:26

that it needed to be done. And

21:28

I did not realize

21:30

that afterwards I would

21:33

be like, did I mess up by

21:35

taking one of our universes

21:38

away? Like your brain kind of

21:40

almost messes to be there. Yeah,

21:42

yeah, yeah. Totally get it. I get it. But

21:45

at least you still have one. Yeah, you still have one. Yeah, I still have

21:47

one. Good. It's good.

21:50

We come with two. But okay. So you

21:52

said you had already started trying. You were trying.

21:54

So what about the donor? Oh,

21:57

the donor search, the search for Superman.

22:00

Yes, super human. So

22:05

yeah, we started just checking out all the

22:07

banks. I think

22:10

the two criteria that we

22:12

were focused on were CMV status

22:15

and she is part

22:17

Mexican so we wanted to try and since we knew we

22:19

were going to be using my egg

22:21

that we wanted to try

22:24

and have the donor match her

22:26

as much as possible. So we did find

22:28

one donor that has the same heritage

22:31

makeup as you which is half Mexican, half

22:33

Irish. So we're like perfect. Yeah,

22:36

and then not to call somebody out but somebody's

22:38

on the shorter side and so she also was

22:40

like, if we can get a tall donor, that

22:42

would be great too. I mean,

22:44

look, you're better than me because I am extremely

22:46

short. I'm definitely probably shorter than

22:48

you and I was like, I don't want

22:50

a tall donor. Fuck that. No

22:52

tall donor. I don't want these kids

22:54

to be towering over me. No, thank you.

22:57

So selfish. That's so funny. Yeah. So

23:00

good for you. Yeah. It's

23:03

like such an interesting thing because we had

23:05

never thought about doing that and then you

23:07

get on those sites and it's very overwhelming.

23:10

Yep. There's

23:12

a lot of choices and you're kind of like,

23:14

well, actually, like I do feel comfortable as long

23:16

as I think the CMV status was something we

23:19

didn't know about. We had to learn about and

23:21

make sure that that was fine, which then narrowed

23:23

it, narrows it down for you quite a

23:25

bit. Yeah. Also,

23:27

just for everyone at home too, I do believe

23:30

because my wife and I didn't do anything about

23:32

that CMV status at all and then found out

23:34

like after we already had our sperm that, oh,

23:36

you should think about that, but there is a

23:38

shot they can give you or whatever. Oh, very

23:40

cool. I think I'm talking about

23:42

the right thing. God, I need to do some research.

23:45

But yeah, both of us were

23:47

like wrong for the donor or whatever. So

23:49

we had to have this shot that like...

23:52

There is a thing for that too. I

23:54

don't know what it is, honestly, but I know that if you're not

23:56

a match for your partner Or

24:00

whatever that you can get a shot for that

24:02

Anyway, as soon. As yeah never let us

24:04

have to deal with his please do

24:06

this since my yeah you're effortless big

24:08

say so they they have ways run

24:10

up and kissing on people don't and

24:12

first of all the to have to

24:14

say as a disclaimer yes I know we

24:16

are very scientific on this typecast nearly

24:18

every of terms and me know everything

24:20

about the science not at all but

24:22

I also would say like it's not like

24:25

straight people like when they when are

24:27

thinking of getting to get laid a

24:29

second or you've seen be positive or

24:31

negative because they're not exactly. Yeah you

24:33

cover but anyway so you're you use

24:35

that as a criteria according and there

24:38

we actually did find a to donors

24:40

because due to the. Vile

24:42

availability. We want to be able to have a

24:44

certain amount and so we we just split it.

24:46

I think this three and three. Or

24:49

number one choice unfortunately the Mexican Irish guy was

24:51

very popular. If you have to call like you

24:54

have to sign up for alerts and you have

24:56

to call and under a half hour when you

24:58

get that it were otherwise. Sold Out Yes,

25:00

has some or how but like you've

25:02

talked about before because there's like such.

25:05

Sienna. Lack of racial minorities and

25:07

owners that the know that probably has

25:10

something to do that that he. Is

25:12

part Mexican? Narrows it down pretty

25:14

quickly. Linear we're going towards something

25:16

that's non whites, right? Yes, how

25:18

am it as in there as

25:20

you search down some endlessly. In

25:22

many instances, Which is sad that

25:24

they are. You know they are working towards. More

25:27

equity and that and they are working towards more

25:30

diversity. He has hello and a take that yeah,

25:32

that is a thing. And upset.

25:34

I should probably just like go ahead and switch

25:37

over said this. The is clearly has already

25:39

affecting me. Yeah, That so I have epilepsy

25:41

and A that I should have said that and

25:43

I Little thirty Second Intro to. So.

25:45

Like a lot of neurological conditions, There

25:48

are triggers for it and so I'm

25:50

getting over Coven right? Now and so

25:52

dislike being sick and having like

25:54

energy depletion. Trigger that so every time I'm

25:56

like, wait, what was I saying that like me having

25:59

a little absent seizure. because I just

26:01

cannot. Oh wow. Okay.

26:04

Usually it's very well managed, but right

26:07

now it's definitely not, I'm

26:10

not at my strongest. So anyways, yeah.

26:12

But that was something going into it

26:15

too, that before we started anything,

26:17

even before searching for donors,

26:20

the first thing I did was make an appointment

26:22

with my neurologist because certain types

26:24

of epilepsy, certain

26:27

type of epilepsies are

26:29

genetic, some are not. So

26:31

that was one thing is like, is this something

26:33

that we need to be concerned about

26:36

from that perspective? Like, you know, what

26:38

are the chances? Cause I said, mine is very

26:40

manageable. I don't think I would mind having a

26:42

child with the type of epilepsy like I have

26:44

because it is so easy to control with

26:46

medication. However, for some people it is very

26:49

debilitating and it's a totally different situation. So,

26:51

you know, it's like, what could that

26:53

look like from a heritable aspect? But

26:56

then from also being pregnant, I was like, is it

26:58

even safe for me to be pregnant? Because ever

27:01

since I started my period,

27:04

I was told like you can never be

27:06

on hormones because that lowers

27:09

your seizure threshold. And so I

27:11

always had a copper IUD for birth

27:13

control. And so yeah, I

27:16

was very concerned about like, can

27:18

I even be pregnant? And then obviously like

27:20

being in a same sex relationship, they're like, oh,

27:22

are you going to do IVF? Because you might want

27:24

to be concerned about like

27:26

using those hormones. Yeah, so

27:28

that was really where we

27:30

started when we did decide to

27:32

change from adoption to conceiving. It

27:34

was like, is this even a possibility between

27:37

her endometriosis and my epilepsy? It

27:39

was like, what are our options?

27:41

What does it look like? Even

27:43

with two dang uteruses, look at that. Yeah,

27:47

exactly. You can't win them all.

27:49

So, no. Okay, so what

27:51

did you find out? And let's

27:53

dig in, let's do this. Yeah, so

27:56

In my case, the neurologist really was

27:59

like, you know, Aside from Ivy

28:01

League. aside from the hormones like the

28:03

type of epilepsy I have as not

28:05

genetics arm are most likely not genetic

28:07

because of the type of seizures I

28:09

have. Some. Women with epilepsy when

28:11

they get pregnant. That's actually. Like a cure.

28:14

a temporary cure for. Their f left see

28:16

mineralogist was like i know one woman

28:18

who had five kids just because she.

28:20

Enjoyed being pregnant so much his he

28:22

had a break from the Caesar's someone.

28:24

Rogers The League you need to stop the

28:26

Any. The South has changed since last six

28:29

or so. I mean it. It varies by

28:31

person, but she was like there's no. There.

28:33

Aren't any like inherit concerns with

28:35

you getting pregnant? There was a

28:38

ton of research with on hi

28:40

yes that. Because not only

28:42

is there neurological disorders,

28:45

Are still learning So much like the

28:47

brain is still like a new frontier

28:49

and for hims. Or her and

28:51

the and so yeah like that. Is

28:54

tough. Then on top of that,

28:56

like having research on women getting

28:58

pregnant with epilepsy, the that league

29:00

narrows the field even more than

29:02

Be says. Yeah. Again, even

29:04

in the twentieth century, they were

29:07

still putting women in. Asylum

29:09

for having epilepsy as they were feeble.

29:11

Minded Yeah, women with epilepsy allows

29:14

hands were had forced sterilization so

29:16

they had tubal ligation without their

29:18

consent. Women getting pregnant with epilepsy

29:21

is also. Pretty now. And

29:23

then you add and the factor of us being. A clear

29:25

path for. The

29:28

justices. Owners. Sperm.

29:30

And ah, like which method I

29:32

you I vs I've yes. and

29:34

the hormones and all of that.

29:36

like. Our options for good

29:38

research were just. So limited

29:40

by a. Seem to neurologists

29:43

unfortunately. My first know this was a

29:45

lesbian women and then see like move to ask

29:47

fell on a league know you're safer. Place

29:49

in or things like that. So I

29:51

saw another neurologist. When see last and basically

29:54

had the same thing way, Here's what we

29:56

know: there's a lot we still don't know.

29:58

Yeah, I'm not really. You're on your. own

30:00

kid, but kind of you're on your own kid. You

30:03

check too many marginalized boxes here.

30:06

And the more marginalized you are, the less

30:08

research there is. That's just the way it

30:10

is. And it sucks. Terrible.

30:14

Take me through it. What do we do?

30:16

What are we doing? And then let's get

30:18

into the conversation because you, because you all

30:20

reached out because of an episode that I

30:22

had had, where was a double parter with

30:25

Lisa, the therapist and Dr. Mark

30:27

about donor conception. It was all

30:30

about donor conception. And

30:32

you reached out because of a

30:34

particular point that you wanted to

30:36

make. I would like to start

30:39

off with a huge caveat that I

30:41

am only speaking about my experience

30:43

slash our experience. Even

30:46

though I have a disability, I, you

30:49

know, I'm still learning so much about

30:51

the disability community and the advocacy

30:53

work that they've been doing. So

30:56

I definitely do not speak on behalf

30:58

of the disability community, nor is the

31:00

disability community a monolith. And you know,

31:02

everybody has different preferences with the language

31:04

that they use. So just because

31:06

I'm using certain language or saying

31:08

certain things, like I do not

31:10

speak on behalf of everybody. The

31:13

episode that we were listening to that

31:15

made me want to reach out to

31:17

you, they had said something about

31:20

prioritizing the genetic history, the

31:22

medical history of the donors

31:24

when you're searching. And

31:26

that definitely struck a chord with us because

31:28

to hear somebody say

31:30

like you shouldn't choose a donor based on

31:32

their medical history sounds to us

31:35

like, well, then you're not qualified to be

31:37

parents because of your medical history. But

31:40

what you're saying is to not like

31:42

to rule a donor out

31:45

based on certain medical

31:47

history that you see is the

31:51

issue that you're talking about. Right.

31:54

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So like to say

31:57

like you shouldn't pick a donor because they

31:59

have a history of epilepsy is like

32:01

saying, well, because you have epilepsy, you

32:03

shouldn't be using your biological material

32:06

to create a child. That's just

32:08

obviously like not how

32:10

we feel A and B. I

32:13

mean, I don't know if endometriosis is considered a

32:15

disability. We probably should have. I don't know actually.

32:17

It should be. Shout out to all the people

32:19

who are living with endometriosis because we

32:23

have learned so much since she got

32:25

her diagnosis and it is like wild

32:28

house still underappreciated it is in terms

32:30

of like how debilitating it is. And

32:32

it's my research, of course. So

32:35

this strikes a very personal chord for

32:37

you. Rightly so,

32:40

rightly so, right? Like if

32:42

they said to rule out, this is just a shot

32:45

in the dark, I'm being silly here. But if they

32:47

had said, you should start with height and rule

32:50

out the ones that

32:55

are not at the right height for you, then

32:57

that is going to strike a personal chord for

32:59

me because what about the short people of the

33:01

world? We deserve a chance to. Exactly. No, it's

33:03

the same thing because it

33:05

is like we have both

33:07

lived very fulfilling lives. You

33:11

can have a disability and still live

33:13

out your dreams and do a lot

33:15

of things. And yeah, life

33:18

is difficult, more difficult from that aspect,

33:20

but everybody experiences difficulties in their lives

33:22

for different things. And it doesn't mean

33:24

that you can't

33:26

reproduce or you can't parent. And like I

33:29

said, with being a woman with epilepsy, it

33:31

especially strikes a chord because for

33:33

so many decades, they stripped

33:36

women with epilepsy of even the ability

33:39

to reproduce by institutionalizing

33:41

them and sterilizing them.

33:43

So yeah, it is it's

33:45

very much like I wanted to have the

33:47

opportunity to just like say

33:50

that for anyone with a disability listening

33:52

that, you know, I want to affirm

33:54

everybody's right to choose whether they want

33:57

to be a parent or contribute biological

33:59

material. to a child, like, I

34:01

think that everybody has the right to choose

34:03

and you can still have kids

34:07

that have amazing fulfilling

34:09

lives. And again, like, they might have

34:11

struggles if they are born with a disability,

34:13

but everybody has struggles and you know. Well, I

34:15

think like in my head, it goes back to

34:17

what you had already said of, do our

34:20

heterosexual counterparts when they meet.

34:23

Are they like, before we decide to get

34:25

married, before we have kids, let's do a

34:27

full genetic workup. And so this is

34:29

the thing, right? So this is where it gets dicey. And

34:32

like, it gets dicey here because

34:34

we have the choice here.

34:36

Right? And heterosexual folks

34:39

who do it, you know, who baby dance the

34:41

old fashioned way, they don't have a choice. They

34:43

have to take what they have, you know, or,

34:45

you know, then come on our side and figure

34:47

out this whole mess that we have to go

34:50

through to make our families. So we're all of

34:52

a sudden like given all of this choice. And

34:55

it can be very overwhelming, as you know, to try

34:57

and like pick this person who is going to

35:00

be the 50% of your offspring

35:03

that you create. It

35:05

feels like such a huge monumental

35:07

decision. And so, you know,

35:09

we look to the experts for helping

35:12

us narrow down these choices.

35:14

These, what are the important decisions? What

35:16

are the important choices that you make? And

35:19

I think it's very important to stress that it's

35:21

different, you know, it can be different

35:23

for everyone. Absolutely. And

35:26

to be fair to like, Dr.

35:29

Mark and Lisa, the therapist, that's what I

35:31

will always call them. They

35:33

have three names. If you share to them,

35:36

they did say, you know, start with, they

35:38

stress that it's important from a doctor's perspective

35:41

to start from the medical history

35:43

and work from there. They didn't

35:45

necessarily say, you know, rule out

35:47

people with disabilities. Like I don't

35:49

think that was right. But

35:51

I understand how that struck

35:54

a chord 100%. And

35:57

also I do understand, like when you do look

35:59

at the... medical history and things.

36:02

Well, I guess I was thinking of

36:04

family history, but I'm medical history. I didn't even look

36:06

at metal. I didn't look at any metal. I don't

36:08

even know. Like, what do you get with the medical

36:10

history? I'm not even sure. I'm not

36:12

sure. I mean, I remember just because

36:15

we're pretty recent at it, we

36:17

had, they had the full genetic panel

36:19

and our clinic made you do the

36:22

genetic. We didn't want to test

36:25

her. Is it the genetic panel?

36:29

Yeah, because, so first of all,

36:31

going back to your point, like, I absolutely agree with

36:33

what you're saying and like, affirm everybody's

36:35

right to choose like what they're

36:37

looking for in donors. And

36:39

I know it is different for everybody. And I'm

36:42

always very conscious of like,

36:44

some things that I

36:46

say from a disability perspective come off

36:49

sounding very like pro life, which I'm

36:52

pro life in the full life spectrum, but I

36:54

am not anti-abortion. I am very much like

36:56

pro choice. And I never even

36:58

went there, but you know,

37:00

yeah, like if you are pregnant

37:02

and find out that your fetus

37:05

is most likely going to be born with

37:07

a disability or something like, you know, that's

37:09

absolutely up to every parent to choose, like

37:11

whether they want to move forward with that

37:13

pregnancy or not. I am not going to

37:15

stand on a platform and say, you're not,

37:17

you're not here calling

37:20

everybody, listen, you just, you have, you

37:22

should just have all the babies. Like,

37:24

that's not what you're saying. Like,

37:27

it is up to everyone, of course.

37:29

And, you know, I think

37:31

it's just advocating for reform

37:34

in the fertility industry. So

37:36

there are better, you know,

37:39

regulations and safeguards and more

37:41

choice too. So yeah, back to the

37:43

genetic testing, the clinic we use, yeah,

37:45

they, they made me get genetic testing

37:47

to make sure that because like Vanessa

37:49

said, we had two donors so that

37:52

we could at least get six vials.

37:54

And they each were carriers

37:57

for a different genetic disorder. So

38:00

they wanted me to get a full genetic panel

38:02

done as well to see if I was potentially

38:04

a carrier for something. Right. But

38:07

I said, I do not want

38:09

that. I only want to get tested for the things

38:11

that they're like, if I have to do it, I'm

38:13

just going to get tested for the things that their

38:15

carriers for. And thankfully that came back

38:17

negative for me. I was not a carrier for either of those

38:19

things. So we could use those. Oh, and they let you do

38:22

that. Okay. I thought you were going to say

38:24

the same thing. Or she's that. And then it was

38:26

that. No, I am very grateful. I worked with

38:28

genetic counselors for four years in my job. And

38:31

so I know a lot about like

38:34

the genetic testing side of things from

38:36

that. And so I was able to,

38:38

you know, get more information from

38:41

my colleagues before going into this. And

38:43

I was able to advocate for myself a little bit

38:46

more in that process just because I had a little

38:48

bit more knowledge. I don't, I don't know the average

38:50

person going through that probably would get a full, which

38:52

again, like nothing wrong with getting a full panel of

38:54

genetic testing. If that's what you want. I

38:57

just didn't want that. And it's good to know that

38:59

you do that because I wouldn't have known. I

39:01

haven't researched in to, you know, I only looked

39:03

into the bank that we use, but like different

39:06

banks have different criteria for who they'll

39:09

accept for donors. And you know, that's another

39:11

thing where it's very difficult

39:13

to be accepted as a donor. If

39:16

you have any sort of medical

39:18

history or family history or genetic

39:20

history, which again, like from one

39:22

aspect of it, I totally get

39:25

it. The other things are

39:27

very, are very ableist. Again,

39:29

I'm hesitant to say this because I

39:31

am not deaf. I don't know anyone

39:33

who's deaf, but I've heard that like

39:35

people in the deaf community see it

39:37

as some, some of them, maybe not

39:39

all of them see it as a

39:41

culture. So I can imagine if

39:43

there were like a deaf queer couple that they

39:46

may want a donor who's

39:48

deaf or, you know, has that genetic predisposition

39:50

to being deaf because they see that as

39:53

a culture. I am hesitant to say all

39:55

this because I don't know and I'm sure

39:57

it varies by person. I don't think it's like.

40:00

It's true for everything, but I

40:02

think just saying because you have a

40:04

genetic predisposition for something doesn't mean that

40:06

you should not have

40:09

the opportunity to contribute your genetic

40:11

material. And

40:13

then, yeah, it comes down to giving

40:16

people the choices that they want when

40:18

building their family just like race. And

40:20

you've talked about race on this podcast

40:22

a lot, and I just wanted to

40:24

bring that disability aspect to it too

40:26

that those choices are even more limited.

40:31

I don't think they're going to find a donor

40:33

with a disability. No, I think you're right. Because

40:36

even when you were talking about the

40:38

medical records and the

40:40

fact that you have epilepsy and if

40:42

a donor has epilepsy, I'm thinking in

40:44

my head, I wonder if there even

40:46

would be a donor who had epilepsy.

40:49

I don't know though. That is

40:51

a question I don't know the answer to.

40:53

I don't know if there are non-hearing

40:56

donors. I don't know if they... Yeah.

41:01

And I do want to point out

41:03

as well. And I think that the

41:05

issue here is awareness and

41:08

accessibility and

41:11

just keeping in mind all

41:14

aspects of humanity, right? And

41:18

the disability community is

41:21

repeatedly, habitually

41:24

left off of the

41:26

table when talking about anything,

41:28

right? Even when you say

41:30

DEI, right? You

41:33

should say DEIA, right, for accessibility,

41:36

but not everybody says that. And not everybody

41:38

goes to DEIA training, they go

41:40

to DEI training. Even

41:42

that little tiny thing is

41:45

left off a lot. I agree. That's

41:47

why I thought it was important to come on

41:49

and hear your perspective, right? I'm still going to

41:51

weed out the donor who has alcoholism, right? Because

41:55

that runs really strong in my family. You know

41:57

what I mean? I'm still going to weed out...

42:00

certain things because I know that those are

42:02

things I don't want. If

42:05

I can help them not get a

42:08

double whammy, I'm going to weed it out.

42:10

I don't want my kid to have acne. I can't really

42:12

do anything about that. I

42:15

think we think about some of them

42:18

when we're talking about this huge issue.

42:20

I'm just trying to summarize it and

42:22

make it this umbrella thing and say,

42:25

I thought it was

42:27

really important to hear what y'all

42:29

had to say because we're

42:31

really going to be all about

42:34

uplifting the marginalized. If we are

42:36

really going to be about uplifting

42:38

and highlighting our beautiful

42:40

identities in all of their forms, then

42:42

this can't be left off the table

42:44

as well. This needs to be talked

42:46

about. I completely 100% agree. I

42:49

never thought of that perspective

42:52

of thinking of different disabled communities

42:54

who maybe want actually

42:56

to continue it. Who

42:59

are we to say? Who

43:01

are we to decide that that is a

43:03

genetic that is an unwanted genetic and that

43:05

I completely understand you there 100%. It's

43:10

still every person's choice.

43:13

However, the choices should

43:15

be there. It's

43:18

just, again, up to the

43:20

individuals building a family to make

43:23

those decisions for themselves and their

43:25

families. Like you said,

43:27

there just need to be the option so that

43:29

they can make a

43:31

decision based on what they're

43:33

choosing versus what the reproductive

43:35

fertility industry has chosen for

43:37

them. I think the issue, if

43:40

I'm hearing you correctly, is more with

43:42

the choices that are given, the decisions

43:46

that are made as to what genetics

43:48

are good and what genetics are bad

43:50

and then trickle down to us and

43:53

we get what is decided somewhere else.

43:56

It's especially important for our families because

43:59

we have to rely on this

44:01

in so many instances. We have to

44:03

rely on the help of donor

44:05

genetics or all these things.

44:08

So that's what I feel like you're

44:10

saying because starting from the medical background,

44:13

that's fine as long as you have all the

44:15

choices, right? Exactly. Yeah. So you

44:18

can look at it and see what you want

44:20

to weed out and what you don't. Yeah. No,

44:22

I think going back to that episode that we

44:24

heard, it wasn't what was

44:27

said that was problematic. It was more like

44:29

I was hoping to hear them make

44:32

some sort of caveat to it. Like

44:34

start with medical history, but you don't

44:36

need to rule somebody out if they have

44:38

a history of XYZ. It's up to you

44:41

to choose what's right

44:43

for your family. I think. Yeah, the

44:45

caveat was missing. Start with medical history

44:47

and also that's all your business and

44:50

you have to make it that

44:52

work for you, personally, right? And

44:55

that if you have a disability, you have

44:57

every right to make that

45:00

decision on whether you want to be a

45:02

parent, whether you want to contribute biological material.

45:06

Yeah, that was the part that

45:08

was missing. Medical history, but also

45:10

we're not telling you what part

45:12

of the medical history to weed out, that's up

45:14

for you. Right. That's the thing.

45:16

Because for me, I have

45:19

depression in my family and

45:21

suicide and I would

45:24

weed that out personally. Right. So it's

45:26

up to everybody individually. Yeah.

45:28

So I totally get what you're saying. And

45:31

we should have all the choices in the world. And on

45:34

that note, before we wrap up, I

45:36

do just want to point out because

45:38

this is a queer family podcast. I mean, that's another,

45:41

we as queer people are a

45:43

marginalized group that's then overlooked. And

45:46

another aspect of being

45:48

a donor, some banks

45:50

still have, you can't donate

45:53

if you have

45:55

sex with men or whatever. And so I think because that

45:57

weeds out a lot of people, I think that's a good

45:59

thing. of queer people from being

46:02

in the donor pool, you know, we

46:05

do have a concern that's like, well, what if we

46:07

have an ID donor and our kid turns 18 and

46:10

they can meet their donor, like, we

46:12

don't know if that person's going to be

46:14

homophobic, you know, whereas like, if

46:16

there were more queer people in the donor pool,

46:18

and then we could feel comfortable

46:21

saying like, oh, like when our kid

46:23

turns 18, they'll, you know, have this

46:25

like, other thing in common, or they

46:27

won't feel judged for having queer parents,

46:29

you know, like, yeah, it is. So

46:32

that is an aspect that I just wanted to

46:34

highlight to that, you know, I wish there

46:36

were a way that more queer people could

46:38

be accepted as donors. I mean, we know

46:41

so much more about HIV now. Gay

46:44

men, they just lifted the

46:46

blood donor. Yes, that is

46:48

huge. Yes, that just happened.

46:50

Yeah, it was just all

46:52

gay men. Yeah. Ridiculous. So

46:54

that is an interesting point, because I have thought about that

46:57

a lot. Like, I would have wanted a gay donor down.

47:00

Yeah. That was like, one

47:03

of the things you could like criteria you could

47:05

like, like, leave things out through. I

47:08

totally put in gay and see what I see.

47:10

And it's great to know, take

47:12

away one unknown, right? No,

47:15

that at least this person, I mean,

47:18

you never know what could happen in a life. But it's

47:21

most likely that the person will accept

47:23

our family, they

47:25

ever get to know us. So and that's

47:27

a good point to make, too. And who and why

47:30

is it up to whoever the hell it

47:32

is to decide that that's something

47:35

that we're not going to do? I'd also just know. Yeah,

47:37

100%. epilepsy is not a bad thing to you.

47:42

Gayness is not a bad thing to us.

47:44

Right? So if we take it

47:46

on that scale, that really does put things in

47:49

perspective there. And it's

47:51

just not fair for the outside

47:53

to decide what is

47:55

desirable and what isn't, because

47:57

it's different for everyone. Yeah. Absolutely

48:00

mind your own business Yeah,

48:05

it's very funny we our second donor

48:07

I mean, I'll say

48:09

it we chose our second donor because his

48:11

favorite Favorite

48:13

animal with a dog, but

48:16

it's a pet with a raccoon

48:18

which I love raccoons and I really want

48:20

raccoons And so I was like, this is perfect

48:23

Obviously this this donors just like

48:25

me And what

48:28

the hell kind of a statement is that

48:30

I like dogs but as a pet I

48:32

like raccoons I mean, I

48:34

mean he's a guy I want to know You

48:37

know, but that's and this is the point I

48:39

wanted to bring this to 100%

48:42

is that in the end we all choose

48:44

our donors for the craziest frickin reason and

48:46

yes You can listen to dr. Mark all

48:48

day long say you should start with this

48:50

and then you should go through here and

48:52

then Go to the heart.

48:54

Mm-hmm. I'm gonna tell you what I bet

48:56

you 99

48:59

okay, maybe 95% of

49:01

us start with a damn heart

49:04

and then get stuck on that heart Yeah

49:06

And overlook a lot of the medical things

49:08

and the things that we would have we

49:10

said it in the beginning No, no, no

49:12

way. I don't want that. I definitely we

49:14

can't do that, right? It comes

49:16

down to a heart decision because we're making one

49:19

of the hugest decisions of our life It feels

49:21

like especially, you know when you're

49:23

in the process and it is because

49:25

you're creating your freaking child Like

49:27

it well, you're creating half of

49:29

the genetics, right? Mm-hmm. It's huge

49:32

It's monumental and however, you need to

49:34

make that decision you go

49:36

ahead with your bad self Yeah, like

49:39

it's no it's nobody's business except

49:41

your own and I know I

49:43

didn't prioritize medical I don't even know like it.

49:45

Like I said, did I even see the medical

49:47

history? I don't even know I look at the

49:49

family I looked at his

49:51

essay. Yeah. Yeah, I listened to the

49:53

audio. That's the one the 30-second audio

49:55

clip Yeah, I looked at his little

49:58

cute baby face adult

50:00

pictures, I was like, oh, my kid

50:02

looking like that. You know what I

50:04

mean? Like, yeah, come on, listen, I'll

50:06

bet you anything. Like 95% of us

50:09

go with the heart and you

50:11

know, and then we trickle down from there

50:13

and that's okay too. Yeah, I mean, if

50:16

you think about it, like again, talking about

50:18

our straight counterparts, like that's how they choose

50:20

a partner anyways, is their heart. So

50:23

why shouldn't we also be afforded

50:26

the same opportunity? Yeah, I

50:28

want to say something that my

50:30

previous co-host and

50:33

co-founder Robin used to say all the

50:35

time. She used to say that, listen,

50:37

if I did it with, if

50:39

me and Mary can make a baby

50:41

together, they would have my alcoholic jeans,

50:44

her, you know, and my big

50:46

German butt jeans and her something

50:48

or other and her something or other, but

50:50

we wouldn't care, right? We

50:53

love each other, we want to

50:55

make a baby, right? So that's really

50:58

what it comes down to. The thing is we get

51:00

all this choice shoved in our face. It's great

51:02

and it's wonderful that we do, that we even

51:04

have the choice, right? And then we get a

51:06

little crazy. And sometimes

51:08

we forget to include

51:11

everyone. So

51:13

that's why I really wanted to have you two

51:15

on, like to come and bring this perspective in,

51:18

because who are we if

51:20

we're not including our community of disabled people?

51:22

I think, am I supposed to say it?

51:25

People have different preferences. Right.

51:29

So if I have offended anyone with any

51:31

of my terms, I apologize and feel free

51:33

to reach out. Yeah, same.

51:35

I have probably also used terms

51:38

that other people would not prefer. We're all

51:40

just doing our best. And like I said, I am

51:42

still very much learning about this because, you know, I do

51:44

think it's important. This is a community that I'm a part

51:47

of, and I don't even know, you know,

51:49

I'm sure what I do know

51:51

only scratches the surface. So yeah,

51:53

it's definitely important to keep uplifting

51:56

all the marginalized. Every event day.

51:58

Yeah. Agreed. And in the

52:01

name of inclusion and accessibility, this

52:03

episode is important. And so I really thank you,

52:05

and I really thank you for reaching out and

52:08

agreeing to come on and talk and

52:10

get a little nervous, but it's, you

52:12

know, and can't wait. You have to tell

52:15

everyone where you're at right now with

52:17

this because- Oh, yeah. I mean,

52:19

we're very much in the thick of it.

52:21

So send all the baby dust our way

52:23

because- Yeah, we're still trying. We

52:25

haven't been successful yet. So- How long have

52:27

you been trying? Four? Yeah.

52:31

We had like, like I said, we had a very

52:33

rough fall. I had my hysterectomy. I had

52:35

an emergency gallbladder removal and a shoulder surgery

52:37

all of the last three months. So, and

52:40

in trying. So it's been, you know,

52:42

yeah. I mean, I think we probably

52:45

did not stack the cards in our

52:47

favor when it comes to like stress.

52:49

I think, you know- We're working. We're

52:52

hoping 2024 will be healthier

52:54

and less stressed out. So,

52:57

I'm not really surprised that hasn't worked so

52:59

far. Well, you know what?

53:01

But people get pregnant all the time

53:03

and it's also such a freaking miracle.

53:05

So just remember that. Like, it's

53:08

a miracle. Every single conception is

53:11

such a miracle when you think about it. And,

53:13

you know, you just take one step at a

53:15

time. You take one baby step at

53:17

a time, you do that appointment

53:19

and then you do that appointment and

53:22

then you do that. Then you try

53:24

not to look at any pregnancy tests.

53:26

You do anyway and you also pay

53:28

too, right? Like- We've been pretty

53:30

good. I have been pretty good. We hear people

53:32

who always like test early, but we always, we

53:34

wait the full too. Cause I'm like, don't do

53:36

it. Don't you do it? And also like, this

53:39

is where the stress comes in handy. We're so

53:41

distracted by everything else going on in our lives.

53:43

It's not like top of mind. Like, am I

53:45

pregnant? It's like, oh, you know, is Vanessa in

53:47

pain? Let me do that first. Oh

53:50

God. Well, there's a lot going on

53:53

in the end. Everything's going to be

53:55

okay. Yeah. Work out how

53:57

it's supposed to work out. You can get what you need. It's

53:59

going to fit in. it's gonna be great and everything's

54:01

gonna be okay. But

54:03

I know what it's like and you're in the

54:05

thick of it and we are all sending all

54:07

that baby dust and

54:10

you have to let us know when you're

54:12

comfortable letting us know like what the outcome

54:14

is. All the baby dust, you got

54:16

this. Thank you. Thank you. And thank

54:18

you so much for having us on here. This

54:20

was not expected at all.

54:22

I mean, even when you just read

54:24

my email on the episode, I was

54:26

so grateful to hear that. Okay.

54:30

Yeah, and I actually had a friend reach

54:32

out to me afterwards. She's

54:34

like, I listened to that and I could just

54:36

like hear your voice and every word. And I'm

54:38

so grateful for you speaking on behalf because she

54:41

has her own medical issues that she deals with

54:43

and she and her husband are trying to build

54:45

their family as well. So I'm like

54:48

the fact that I even was able to like just

54:50

my words were able to touch a friend

54:52

of mine. So hopefully- Oh, that's just, you know

54:54

what? I bet you it's even more, you know? So

54:56

thank you. Because come

54:59

on, we gotta include everyone. We know what it

55:01

feels like, right? So we gotta do better. And

55:03

when you know better, you do better.

55:06

Exactly. Maya Angelou and Dr. Lulu,

55:09

then it's good, maybe. Okay, this is so

55:12

great. Thank you. Thank you so much.

55:14

We really, really appreciate it. Love

55:16

is love. Well,

55:18

folks, I hope you enjoyed that episode as much

55:21

as I enjoyed it. And if you did enjoy

55:23

it, feel free to listen to

55:25

another or watch another. I have so

55:27

many episodes for your listening or viewing

55:29

pleasure. Just go pick one and enjoy.

55:31

There's a lot. There really is. And

55:34

also, if you really do like this show, please,

55:36

I know I say it all the time, but

55:38

please do consider supporting the show on Patreon. You're

55:41

just gonna go to patreon.com slash

55:43

the Queer Family Podcast. You're gonna pick a

55:45

tier, you're gonna join, and you're gonna get

55:47

that bonus content. And you're also gonna get

55:49

my love and adoration for the

55:52

rest of my life. I

55:54

love you all. Thanks for tuning in. Keep on

55:56

tuning in. And I'll see you next

55:58

time. Mwah. Thank you.