0:00

Music Live

0:28

from the headquarters of Ramsy

0:30

Solutions, it's the Ramsy show.

0:33

Well, we help people build wealth,

0:35

do work that they love

0:38

and create actual amazing

0:40

relationships. Dr.

0:43

John Deloni, Ramsy personality, number

0:45

one, best-selling book author and

0:48

a host of a very hot YouTube

0:51

slash podcast program on the Ramsy networks

0:53

called the Dr. John Deloni show. He's

0:56

my co-host today. The phone number is triple eight,

0:58

eight two five, five two, two five.

1:03

Sabrina starts off this hour in

1:05

Tampa, Florida. Hi Sabrina. How are

1:08

you? I'm

1:10

doing better than I deserve as well. I

1:12

can't believe you finally get to settle this

1:14

for my husband and I want some for all.

1:17

So I get to put on my referee's

1:19

Jersey, get out my whistle, marital

1:22

referee Dave. Absolutely.

1:25

And you've been with us since our

1:27

engagement because we did SPU as a

1:29

part of our marriage counseling. So we

1:31

have every dollar we do the budget

1:33

meetings. We paid off our house last

1:36

March. So you guys already know the answer

1:38

to this question, whatever it is. That's

1:41

the thing. I think I do know the answer. I

1:43

know he knows the answer, but he

1:45

has made the journal thing. So our

1:47

network is 800,000. But

1:50

my husband is ready to buy his

1:52

dream truck. And I know you say

1:54

wait until your network is at least

1:56

a million dollars. We

1:59

bring. and about 215k

2:02

a month, their truck would be between 15k a month.

2:04

You mean a year? So I'm like,

2:06

oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was

2:08

about to buy a truck, okay.

2:11

Okay, yeah. At 2.5 million annual

2:13

income, I'm ready to go. Okay,

2:16

all right. Anyway, but anyway, $215,000 a

2:18

year, you're still doing good, okay. Yeah,

2:22

we already put in 15% for retirement. How

2:25

much is the truck? The

2:27

truck will be 50 to 60k. Okay,

2:29

so what is it? It's

2:32

going to probably be a Silverado. He's torn

2:34

between a Silverado or honestly Dave, I

2:36

feel so embarrassed. What is the OF Ford? F-150

2:39

or something. F-150 or something. F-150

2:41

or something. Repent, ma'am. F-150. You

2:45

can't call about the truck, man's truck and not know

2:48

what the man's truck is. It's just wrong. Okay.

2:51

Bless your heart. This is wonderful. Okay, so the only,

2:53

you're out of debt, you have the money to pay

2:55

cash for the truck. The only argument is 800 versus

2:58

a million. Right.

3:01

Okay, and so what's

3:04

your home worth? Our

3:06

home is worth a little over 300k. It

3:09

varies on Zillow between 300 and 330. Okay,

3:12

and you're in Tampa, Florida and

3:15

you're adding 15%. So you're adding $60,000

3:17

a year, not counting growth, to your 401ks. And

3:24

so that's $120,000. So

3:27

in three years you'd be there if there's

3:30

no growth in the stock market. So you're

3:32

millionaires in 18 months from now, roughly. That's

3:36

crazy. That's wild and exciting. Yeah, that's what

3:38

the math says. Okay, that's good for y'all. How old

3:40

are you? I'm 35

3:42

and he's 37. You

3:45

guys rock. You're so smart. We owe,

3:47

you all rock. You all got it to yourself. I

3:49

didn't give you any money. Yes, you did.

3:52

I just showed you how to do it. What's

3:55

the nomination for you guys? Oh,

4:01

I know that. I'm just trying to figure

4:03

out like you're you sound like you've come

4:05

from a very legalistic background and Oh my

4:07

god, you know me so well. I'm scared

4:12

All right Dave will give

4:14

you the answer and then I'll see if I can give

4:16

you a workaround because my church is all over the I'm

4:18

just kidding. Go ahead Dave So

4:21

the concept is and the reason we put a

4:23

million dollars on there is you need to have

4:25

a really strong net worth and Be in a

4:28

really strong financial position in order to be able

4:30

to lose as much money as you're

4:32

gonna lose when you drive A brand new truck off

4:34

the lot when the sound goes boom-bloom

4:36

when you go into the street On

4:39

a Ford f-150 to 60 grand or a nice

4:41

Silverado the 65 or 70 thousand You

4:44

just lost 15,000 bucks when it goes

4:46

boom-bloom Golly,

4:48

that's what it costs when you drive it into the street So

4:51

you got to be able to absorb that blow and

4:53

it not change your life at all Most

4:56

people do that crap while they're broke

4:58

middle-class people and they I need a

5:00

track I Deserve a

5:02

truck cuz I work hard, you don't deserve

5:04

squat You don't work hard enough and

5:06

you hadn't done a good job yet So that's

5:08

who we're talking to we try to get put

5:11

a million dollars up there because at a million

5:13

dollars net worth at 35 years

5:15

old making 215 you can absorb a fifteen

5:17

thousand dollar blow, right? That's where

5:19

the concept comes from So really what

5:21

we need to understand is the concept

5:23

under the principle rather than the legalistic

5:25

number Because if it was 1.1 or

5:27

900 or 800, it doesn't really matter What

5:31

matters is the concept is you can absorb

5:33

the blow so at

5:36

if Sharon and I were doing

5:38

this and it was me wanting a truck which

5:41

is Very very possible

5:43

that that conversation has occurred

5:47

Because I drove my Raptor here today,

5:49

so there you go, but the we

5:51

heard it coming like a deluxe away

5:53

That's a good redneck truck man. I'm

5:55

just saying you know make an announcement

5:57

when you come around the corner, but the Alright,

6:00

so if we were

6:02

doing this, we would probably say, alright,

6:04

the good news is the principle that's in

6:06

place made us stop and think. Are

6:09

we wise? Okay,

6:11

so the good news is you're wise, both

6:14

of you. You've done a great job

6:17

with your money. You're incredible. If

6:19

you buy this truck, it's not going to destroy

6:21

your life. Okay? And

6:24

we set out on a journey following a

6:26

set of principles and guidelines that got us

6:28

here. Deviating from those is

6:30

kind of damaging to your psyche. It

6:34

feels like you cheated. You know

6:36

what I'm saying? Yeah. So technically, technically,

6:38

financially, you could buy the truck and

6:40

you wouldn't notice. I worry more

6:43

about you deviating from this and

6:45

saying, okay, I got the cheat

6:48

code, right? I got the hack. And

6:50

so you could buy it today,

6:52

it wouldn't be a problem. So what Sharon and I

6:55

would do with both of those things in mind, the

6:57

concept matters more than anything

6:59

else. And the deviation scares me

7:01

more than the technical math on it scares

7:03

me. And so what we would

7:05

do is we would probably land in the middle. We'd

7:07

say, okay, we're not going to do it this year.

7:10

We're going to watch the stock market and what it does with our

7:12

401k. We're going to watch our Zillow

7:15

or whatever, probably something more accurate than Zillow

7:17

on my valuation of my real estate. And

7:20

if we get up in the 900s in the next 18 months, I'll

7:23

buy a truck. We might cheat in

7:26

the middle. You know, we're probably

7:28

probably meeting the middle is probably what we

7:30

would do. Okay, so this is not,

7:32

but I can't, I don't get to blow my whistle

7:34

because I'm not going to yell at you if you do

7:36

it today. And I'm not going to

7:38

yell at you. And I'm not going

7:40

to say you're super extra smart if you do

7:43

it, you know, if you wait till

7:45

it's exactly a million, because there's nothing magic about

7:47

the million. What was magic

7:49

is we made you pay attention. What was magic

7:51

is we gave you a plan that you believed

7:53

in and you executed on it. What was magic

7:55

is you got a large enough net worth that

7:57

you can absorb the blow. That's the magic. That

8:00

make sense? And we didn't

8:02

lose any of the magic if you buy something today. And

8:05

I thought it I Absolutely

8:07

love that plan and the one caveat I would

8:10

add to it is does it have to be

8:12

a 2024? Does a 2023

8:14

or 2022 get you there where somebody else? Get

8:17

you get this amazing. If you want to do a 23 you can do

8:19

it today. F-150 Somebody else has already

8:21

eaten that 15k for you and you buy a car

8:24

with 9,000 miles on it Somebody returned

8:26

it and you're good to go. I will

8:28

tell you this. I'm on my fourth Raptor So

8:31

you're gonna do it again anyway, so you could

8:33

do a 23 and in two years go

8:35

do a brand new one and That

8:38

would solve John you're smart trying. We

8:40

got you around here, man That's

8:43

a good that's a better solution than all my

8:45

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9:32

John Deloney Ramsey personality best-selling

9:35

author and Of

9:38

course host of the dr. John Deloney show which you

9:40

need to tune in and check out on

9:43

the Ramsey Networks Zachary

9:45

is with us. He's in st.

9:47

Louis. Hi Zachary. How are you?

9:50

I'm doing well. I'm doing well How are you guys

9:52

doing better than we deserve sir? What's up? Well,

9:55

I had a question for you. I'm actually a

9:57

pastor over here at a small town church I

10:00

just want to say I very much appreciate all that

10:02

you do. Thank you. But one

10:04

question that's come up for me is

10:06

I often hear you use the phrase,

10:08

the borrower is slave to the lender.

10:11

And I definitely agree with that principle in

10:13

many ways. But then on the

10:16

other end, I noticed that when it comes

10:18

to a mortgage, you are

10:20

okay borrowing in that instance, which

10:22

seems almost to betray that principle a little

10:25

bit. And I guess I was just curious

10:27

on your reasoning as to why you think

10:30

it's okay to borrow in that instance. But

10:33

then when it comes to something like a

10:35

car, especially for someone like me, I live a

10:38

little bit in the country where I'm

10:40

at. So it's a little bit more

10:42

difficult. The car is almost a requirement.

10:44

Pastor, that is a wonderful question. Yeah.

10:47

It's a really good question. Of course, you're quoting

10:49

the Scriptures, Proverbs 22.7, the rituals are over the

10:51

poor and the borrower is slave

10:55

to the lender. And this is a biblical principle

10:58

that we're violating when

11:00

we say it's okay to take out a mortgage.

11:03

And that's your point. And you're correct completely

11:05

on that. Or we tell people

11:07

it's okay to do that. So are you 26? I'm

11:11

actually like 31. I

11:14

had to think about that for a second. Okay. That's

11:16

okay. You lose count around 30.

11:18

It happens. Yeah, I'm

11:20

on the 34th anniversary of my 30th birthday.

11:22

But the... All right.

11:27

So the answer to your question is it

11:29

is the only hypocritical

11:33

advice we give on this show. It's

11:37

the only thing that was hypocritical we give on

11:39

the show. It's the only thing we tell people

11:41

it's okay to do that I never do. I

11:45

went broke in my 20s as I was

11:47

a baby Christian. I had just met God

11:49

and I discovered in that process. I got

11:51

teaching that what the Bible said about money

11:53

named Larry Burkett. And

11:56

I said, I'm going to follow what the

11:58

Bible says. I'm never borrowing money again. I've never

12:00

borrowed money again. money again. I don't borrow money

12:02

for anything ever for any reason under any circumstances.

12:06

Everything else I tell people on the show to do, I

12:08

do exactly what I say to do. Allowing

12:11

people to take out a mortgage without me yelling

12:14

at them, it's

12:16

the only time that my advice

12:18

is inconsistent with my life. Does

12:20

that make sense? Right. And

12:23

it's completely, completely fair for you to call me

12:25

out on it and then I'll answer your question.

12:27

But I wanted to caveat that and say I

12:29

don't borrow money for anything. And sometimes when I

12:31

get a question where it's kind of borderline whether

12:33

they have to borrow or not, I tell them

12:36

that story. I say, hey, I

12:38

don't borrow for anything and I recommend that. That

12:40

is the best way. If

12:43

you follow biblical principles, you're going

12:45

to, in your marriage, your marriage is going to prosper.

12:47

If you follow biblical principles raising your kids, your kids

12:49

are going to be amazing. If you follow biblical principles

12:51

in your mental health and your

12:53

emotional state, you're going to prosper. And the same

12:56

is true in your money and in your leadership.

12:58

If you're running a church, running a business, same

13:00

thing is true. So I evangelical,

13:02

man, I believe that the Bible says it and you

13:04

do it, it's a good thing, right? So I'm with

13:07

you on that. Now,

13:09

the reason that I lighten up when someone

13:11

calls in on that is

13:14

two things. One is I can pretty much

13:16

talk you out of or call you stupid

13:18

taking out a car loan because

13:20

cars go down in value. The interest

13:23

rate is higher and there's no correlation

13:25

between buying the cars with payments and

13:27

becoming wealthy. Very few

13:29

millionaires will tell you that, oh,

13:32

the best thing I ever did was agree to borrow

13:34

on a car because I needed a car because I

13:36

was out in the country and I was driving a

13:38

long way and I needed a car. No millionaires told

13:40

us that when we studied 10,000 of them. So the

13:42

fruit is not

13:45

there. I'm a fruit inspector. Okay.

13:48

The second thing is, millionaires do tell

13:50

us that they borrowed to buy a

13:52

house many times and when they got

13:54

it paid off, they never borrowed money

13:56

again after that. Their debt averse but

13:58

not completely mortgage averse. So the data

14:01

is in that millionaires do that.

14:04

Even though I would tell you the best way to do it

14:06

is save up and pay cash for it, it's hard to get

14:08

people to save up for 10 years to buy a house. I

14:11

can get them to save up three years to buy a car, or

14:14

18 months to buy a car. But I've

14:16

had trouble doing that. So I make

14:18

that violation, but I also often tell people all

14:20

the time when I say that, no

14:23

more than a 15 year mortgage, no more than a payment of

14:25

a fourth of your take on pay. You probably heard me say

14:27

that, Zachary. And then get the

14:30

stupid house paid off as fast as you

14:32

can because the shortest distance between where you

14:34

are and wealth is debt

14:36

freedom. And

14:38

that's consistent across the thing. But you're exactly

14:40

right. And my cars are completely different. Cars

14:42

are the largest thing we buy that goes

14:44

the wrong direction. It goes down in value.

14:47

And when you finance a car, you're just begging to

14:49

be middle class the rest of your life, financially,

14:52

mathematically. Well,

14:54

and most people are stupid enough to like take

14:57

a car note on like a $30,000 car when

15:00

they have no money either. Exactly. Yeah,

15:03

like everybody listening right now, just about. Right,

15:06

right, right. You're right. I

15:09

did have one other thing. And by

15:11

the way, I wanna say I support

15:13

everything you're doing wholeheartedly, including like, I've

15:15

been using myself many of these

15:17

steps, being a small town pastor, you don't get paid

15:19

a ton of money and you have kids. And so

15:22

I've actually had to use these things for myself. So

15:24

again, I wanna say thank you. The

15:26

one other thing I noticed though, as someone who

15:28

was new to the Dave Ramsey

15:30

program in many ways and was new to

15:32

those steps, is that I didn't hear a

15:35

lot of talk about creating a buffer.

15:37

So as someone who was new, I

15:40

didn't have any money in my checking account, right?

15:42

Because I was using credit cards and then I

15:44

was paying off those credit cards with the money

15:47

in my account. So I never really had money

15:49

in my account. And I was in this endless

15:51

cycle, obviously, like a lot of people were. So

15:54

one thing that I thought just to

15:56

consider is that in those baby steps,

15:58

I almost thought there should be a... another baby step

16:01

about creating a buffer because people need

16:03

to, they don't just need a $1,000

16:05

emergency fund. I

16:08

thought that was the buffer whenever I

16:10

was new to the Dave Ramsey program and the

16:12

Dave Ramsey baby steps. But there's

16:14

also this idea of making sure you have

16:16

a buffer because you're going to have auto

16:18

payments on preschool and mortgages and all types

16:21

of stuff. Well, that should be part of

16:23

your budgeting, Zachary. You should

16:25

plan your, you should, budgeting is cash flow

16:27

planning. And so you're

16:29

planning to not take more money out of

16:31

your checking account than you have in it.

16:34

That's your buffer. And you

16:36

can put a $100 buffer in there if you want, but that's

16:38

fine. You don't need any more than that. There's nothing wrong with

16:40

that. But you don't need a $2,000 buffer

16:43

because you're incompetent at

16:45

budgeting. You

16:47

need to have the budget dialed in.

16:49

We're paying the auto payment comes out

16:51

here. This other payment comes out

16:53

here. The paycheck planning aspect, it's called, and if

16:56

you use the every dollar app, shows you how

16:58

to do that. And so you need to plan

17:00

out every situation there.

17:03

But we're honored to have you as a new listener. That

17:06

is something that, man,

17:08

that rings home to me because here's what I

17:11

fell in the trap of doing. My

17:13

wife and I would make a budget and then

17:15

we would check our checking account to

17:17

see where we were. We

17:20

shouldn't do that because then I would make it, I'd be like,

17:22

oh, I can get a little more groceries. And

17:24

then that, yeah, because the checking account is not an

17:26

indicator if you're on your budget. That's

17:29

exactly right. And so then that buffer he's talking about, then

17:31

all of a sudden the school would pull their tuition on

17:33

the fourth instead of the fifth. And

17:36

because I was not following the budget map we'd

17:38

laid out, but I was checking the checking account

17:40

part. A budget map

17:42

is a plan and you would never plan to spend

17:44

money that you don't have in your account. That's

17:47

exactly right. So don't plan to spend money you don't

17:49

have in your account and your need for a buffer

17:51

goes away. Other than a common sense of $50 or

17:53

$100 or something for slippage, you're looking at something being

17:55

off $0.20 or something. You don't want to do that.

17:57

You don't want to do the penny thing. this

18:00

concept of slosh, because it

18:02

covers my lack of detail

18:04

and sticking to the detail,

18:08

that's not, you don't need slosh. That's

18:10

not good. But yeah, and a lot of people do

18:12

that. So the trick is, the thing

18:14

that happens is your brain, and you and

18:17

I have been talking about this in

18:19

a bunch of other areas too, your

18:21

brain, the neuroplasticity, your brain reriders itself

18:23

when you start making every single dollar

18:26

come out when it's supposed to

18:28

give every dollar of your income

18:30

a name before the month begins,

18:33

you and your spouse spit shake

18:35

and pinky swear that we're sticking to

18:37

this contract that we just wrote down.

18:41

Something happens and changes from that chaotic

18:43

wild man that you were before, and

18:46

it takes about 90 days for that rewiring

18:48

to completely occur. And that

18:50

neuroplasticity, it changes your behavior, it's behavior

18:53

transformation. And so the

18:55

detail matters in that situation because you're

18:57

forcing your brain to work really

19:00

hard. Yeah, that's what you want. This is

19:02

the Ramsey Show. If

19:06

current times have shown us anything,

19:08

it's that the least expected events

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20:07

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality,

20:09

is my co-host today. Thank

20:12

you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.

20:14

Open phone's at 888-825-5225. Now,

20:19

Dr. John, he just, uh, Ramsey

20:22

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20:24

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20:26

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and I think she's just at home

20:51

creating new accounts and hitting refresh, refresh,

20:54

refresh. 40,000 of them? She's got

20:56

a lot of, she's quick, man. She's quick on the keyboard. Yeah. No,

20:59

that's a wild, I'm glad people are tuning in,

21:01

man. Yeah. Well, you're helping a lot

21:04

of people. Pretty wild. A lot of relationship questions and

21:06

addiction questions and, uh, boundary

21:10

questions and marriage questions and

21:12

some bizarre ones. That

21:14

thing, I caught a glimpse, I haven't heard the

21:16

whole call yet, I've got to get it downloaded in the truck on

21:18

the way home, I listened to it. But,

21:21

uh, the one that dropped with

21:24

the woman who, her, somebody gave

21:26

her, her husband gave her an ancestry.com

21:29

DNA. Yeah. And

21:32

she discovers that her dad is not

21:34

her dad, that it's the

21:36

local priest. Yeah. Is

21:38

her dad. Yeah. That

21:41

is a hairy phone call. It's tough. And here's

21:43

the deal, some of those. It's like Dr. Phil

21:45

or something. Well, it

21:47

can feel Jerry Springer if you're not careful.

21:49

And I think the, the difference is, um,

21:52

man, we, 23andMe, if you go down and

21:54

read some of the articles, it's happening

21:56

all over the country. People are finding out

21:58

family secrets and family stories. that

22:00

for generations before just lay quiet and people lose

22:02

their faith because the pastor does something or a

22:04

minister does something or a leader does something and

22:07

it's hard to come back. And so I

22:09

think sometimes the sensational calls feel like,

22:11

Oh my Jerry, Jerry, but there's some

22:13

humanity in there with the hurt

22:15

and persing that says, I thought that was my dad.

22:17

It's not. Yeah. And

22:19

why didn't my dad, why didn't my dad come get me? Because

22:22

he didn't know. Or maybe

22:24

he did know. Yeah. Wow.

22:28

That makes it, but I think all of us

22:30

have that question like, why didn't my dad show up or

22:32

why didn't my mom? Like, so I think there's some humanity

22:34

in all of those calls. Yeah. Oh,

22:36

definitely. That was just wild. Yeah. I

22:39

thought, man, I didn't know if I knew it was going to take a twist and then it

22:41

went twisty twisty. Yeah. Yeah. It

22:44

was crazy. Yeah. Well,

22:47

and the lesson is don't do genetic

22:49

testing. You never get good. I'm just

22:51

kidding. I'm just kidding. I did it.

22:55

Only bad things can come out. I will tell

22:57

you this. I

22:59

got your family tree for paying. Dave,

23:03

you'll get a kick out of this. My doctor,

23:05

he ran the genetic test for me. It wasn't

23:07

with 23andMe. It was with his special program. And

23:09

he called and said, do you struggle walking

23:11

past a bowl of candy in an

23:13

office? And

23:15

I said, did my wife call you?

23:17

What happened? And he's like, I'm just looking at

23:19

your genetics and whoa. And I was like, yeah, we

23:21

should probably talk. This doctor, man, he's got

23:23

insight. We should talk. That wasn't

23:26

a DNA test. That was more than a DNA

23:28

test. Cindy's in Casper,

23:30

Wyoming. Hi, Cindy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

23:34

Hello. Thank you so much for both of you

23:36

for what you do. And I'm one

23:38

of the Dr. John Deloney listeners. So thank you

23:40

as well to you. Thank you. I'm

23:43

excited and excited but nervous to talk to you

23:45

guys today. But I have things kind of lined

23:47

out, I hope. Okay. How can

23:50

we help? All right. So I unfortunately

23:52

got a divorce about a year ago. And I'm

23:54

still in the house making the payment. I'm

23:57

wondering what I should do in the next six months

23:59

after my daughter... or leave for college because

24:02

I still owe my ex money from the

24:04

house. So I have some questions and some

24:06

thoughts about that. So

24:11

the need to protect her by keeping the

24:13

home goes away when she leaves, correct? Correct.

24:17

And that might have been some of the motivation early in

24:19

this game. How

24:23

much do you owe the ex? Well,

24:26

the way the divorce decree is written is by

24:28

2026, I need

24:30

to pay him half of the appraised

24:33

market value at the

24:36

time I sell it. But

24:38

it's based on the amount owned on the

24:40

house when we divorced. So I'm making all

24:42

the payments on the house. So

24:45

when we divorced... So if you did it today, what

24:47

do you owe him today? If

24:50

I were to do it today, depending on... I haven't

24:52

actually got an appraisal, but I'm going to guess between

24:54

$75,000 and $100,000. Okay.

24:58

Do you have any money? Which would be half. No,

25:01

I'm on baby step three. Good. Okay.

25:04

And what's your household income? My

25:07

household income is about $70,000 off

25:10

of my full-time job. And then I

25:12

also have side hustles that bring in between $5,000

25:14

and $10,000 a year. And

25:16

you're getting ready to be in a matter of

25:18

months an empty nest or divorcee?

25:22

Correct. Okay. All right. Is

25:25

there a reason to keep the house? Before

25:30

I started listening to you six months ago,

25:33

my reason would have been the interest rate

25:35

is really low because of course we

25:37

refinance during that time. I

25:40

do... It's a great house.

25:42

I have great neighbors. The

25:44

location is 90% of the time awesome. And

25:50

I'm just comfortable here. There's really

25:52

no reason to leave except for

25:54

the debt piece of it. Okay.

26:00

question is that mathematically it

26:02

doesn't sound like keeping it is going to be

26:04

a blessing. It sounds like it's going

26:06

to be real tight. That

26:09

is yes that's part of what you

26:11

refinance that those payments on your income

26:13

are going to be tight. Agreed? Agreed.

26:17

There's got to be a real reason to

26:19

do this other than it's part of a

26:21

picture that is now shattered. And

26:24

Cindy I'm gonna ask you a question on your behalf. Dave

26:27

for every payment she makes of a

26:29

thousand bucks since he gets appraised value

26:31

minus sales price. No she got minus

26:33

the old mortgage amount the original mortgage

26:35

amount. Original mortgage amount. He's not gaining

26:37

ground while she's paying payments. Okay I

26:39

thought he was gaining half of every

26:41

payment. He's only gaining the value increase

26:44

correct? That's correct.

26:46

Yeah only gaining the value increase. Yeah

26:48

not the mortgage reduction. Okay so

26:50

no. And the other thing I'm up against is

26:52

I don't want to leave my community that I'm in

26:55

and I've been looking at houses kind of just keeping

26:57

an eye out for what's out there. And with

27:00

the increase in the rates as

27:02

well I'm struggling to find something

27:04

that's been with that 25% of

27:08

my take home. Well Cindy here's the

27:10

hardest thing about

27:14

divorce that they don't tell you. It

27:18

blows up every single corner of your life.

27:21

Right. And it's almost impossible

27:24

just to extract this relationship out

27:26

of your life and keep your

27:28

community, keep your geographical location,

27:30

keep your payments, keep your neighbors.

27:32

It does happen sometimes but

27:35

they don't tell you that. It's fairly rare.

27:37

It blows up everything and what I see

27:39

ground people is them trying to keep

27:42

parts of their life shackled to themselves and

27:44

they drag this into their future and it

27:46

ends up collapsing them under a payment you

27:48

can't afford or under. You're gonna go buy

27:50

a new house in the same neighborhood that's

27:52

gonna be way more expensive on a monthly

27:54

basis etc etc. It's

27:56

just a matter of exhaling and

27:58

realizing oh every... everything changed.

28:01

So, right, yeah you got to

28:03

digest that. The way I,

28:08

two decision-making tools I use in

28:10

situations like this or

28:12

other things is I look, number one, I look into

28:14

the future and I say what is the best decision

28:16

for me 20 years from today?

28:19

How old are you? I

28:22

am 46. Okay, so when

28:24

you're 66, what

28:27

decision makes you really like the

28:29

46 year old Cindy as being

28:31

wise? You know, what did you do? You look back and

28:33

you're, God that was so smart.

28:36

Or, God that was so dumb. I wish I

28:38

hadn't done that. You know, and sometimes if

28:40

I look that far forward, it

28:42

kind of magnifies this and it becomes

28:44

obvious. Alright, the second thing

28:47

I do is I use a sunk cost analysis

28:49

and you probably heard me do this, you said

28:51

you listen and that is if I

28:53

didn't already own it and I had the pile of money

28:55

in the middle of the table, would I come by this

28:57

house? Right.

29:00

Okay. And probably the answer to that

29:02

one is no. If

29:06

you were in a one bedroom apartment right now

29:08

and had that equity and your husband was gone,

29:10

your ex-husband was gone, he's paid off, he's gone.

29:12

You had your portion of the money in the

29:14

middle of the kitchen table and you're in a

29:16

one bedroom apartment, you probably wouldn't come by this

29:18

house. So you're defaulting backwards

29:20

into it. You know, you're

29:23

lobstering into it. You're running backwards into it

29:25

rather than making a proper forward based decision.

29:27

I don't think it's, I

29:29

don't think it's the end of the world if you keep it, but I

29:31

think it's going to be tight and I'm not sure it's worth it is

29:34

what I'm saying. This is the Ramsey Show. This

29:39

episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listen,

29:42

if you can't even remember the last

29:44

time you had half an hour to

29:46

yourself, be honest, ask why. It's probably

29:48

because everyone else's schedules, priorities and

29:50

emergencies are driving your life. And

29:53

when you can't keep carrying that load, talking

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30:48

Dr. John Deloni, Ramsey personality is my

30:51

co-host today. Phone's a triple 8, 8-2-5,

30:53

5-2-2-5. John,

30:57

our last caller was, you and I talked

30:59

about it during the break briefly, was very

31:01

level headed. She'd been through a lot

31:03

of pain and yet there was

31:05

a wisdom. She was not being like,

31:08

she was not way super

31:10

emotional about it. She's really trying to

31:13

be wise and that was, it's

31:15

not always the case when I'm talking to somebody in a situation

31:17

that's been through that much pain. Their

31:19

daughter's leaving home for college right after a

31:22

divorce. She's got a lot of tearing, losing

31:24

her friends, losing her community, losing her house,

31:26

losing her husband. It was a, you

31:29

can always tell when someone's asking you a question because they want you

31:31

just to confirm what they're asking or I need some help. She

31:35

really did try to figure it out. Tell me the hard stuff.

31:38

Really trying to figure it out. That's a really good place for her.

31:40

It's also a jumping off point. I will tell you this, it's

31:43

one of the harder things in a one-on-one

31:45

coaching session that we've had to

31:47

deal with or even here on the air is in

31:50

a divorce situation and

31:52

it's not a moral construct, it's a

31:55

math thing, whether

31:57

it's right or not we can discuss,

31:59

but generally Similarly, in our culture

32:01

today, still, ladies

32:04

make less than gentlemen. The

32:07

income of males is still higher than females. Not

32:10

necessarily because of the jobs, not necessarily because

32:13

of a lot of different factors enter into

32:15

that, but the fact is

32:17

the mom generally after the

32:19

divorce has a greater reduction in

32:21

income than the husband. She

32:26

generally, mama bear, tries to keep

32:29

the kids have already had the pain of

32:31

dad leaving. Now she doesn't want

32:33

to have to have them move out of their bedroom, their

32:36

next door neighbor friends that they play kickball

32:38

with and pull them out of their

32:41

schools. And so she'll do anything

32:43

to keep them in a house that there's no

32:45

mathematical way she can afford. And

32:47

I've watched newly single moms, particularly with

32:50

young children, that lady's last child was

32:52

going off to college. She had that

32:54

benefit to this decision. It made this

32:56

decision easier. But when you got an

32:58

eight year old, a seven year old, and a five year

33:00

old that are crying, where's daddy? And

33:03

don't take me out of my kindergarten class that are, I

33:05

love my Miss Jones or whatever,

33:07

right? And you're going to try to find

33:10

a way to make a payment that does not fit in

33:12

those numbers. And

33:14

it usually sets them back as

33:16

much as a decade financially

33:19

instead of just going

33:21

like you said, it sucks. Everything's

33:23

blown up. Everything's blown up. And we've

33:26

got to move to a cheaper house. And

33:28

there was that time that that thing happened. And

33:31

families and other generations just did that,

33:33

right? You know, the husband died. And

33:37

so the family lost the farm, you

33:39

know, there wouldn't be somebody that loaned them that much money

33:41

for that long, etc. Right? Yeah, they

33:44

weren't there. There wasn't an option. They were forced into

33:47

housing that they could afford, you

33:49

know, and it's just it's so freaking

33:51

emotionally painful, though, because

33:54

on the short term, it just rips

33:56

everything out by the hair. But

33:58

on the long term, it's the only thing that's ever happened. thing you can do

34:00

to recover. Yeah, I've gone to telling

34:02

parents the greatest gift you can give your kid

34:05

is not the schools and

34:07

the stuff. It's a regulated you. And

34:10

so you... Freaked out single mom trying to pay

34:12

a payment. She can't pay working six jobs. It's

34:14

an electric home. So I keep you in a

34:16

house so everything's okay, but now everything's not okay

34:18

because you're freaked out. Everybody lives in a

34:20

bug zapper then, right? Exactly. Versus a

34:22

mom who's able to laugh and breathe because she

34:25

can make the two bedroom apartment payments. Is

34:27

that ideal? No, it's the worst, man. It's

34:29

the worst. They're gonna afford the spaghetti and

34:32

the peanut butter and jelly. Now we can laugh, we

34:34

can breathe, we can go for walks out in the

34:36

park and your kid's nervous systems will adjust to that.

34:39

More than they will. The chaos. To try

34:41

to keep everything as similar as it

34:44

was. The sameness is not

34:46

the answer. Because

34:48

nothing's the same. Everything's gone. If you can afford it and

34:50

want to stay, that's fine. I don't have a problem with

34:52

that, but I will tell you that probably seven

34:54

out of ten times I'm just looking at the numbers with

34:56

somebody in this situation, they gotta move. And

34:59

I gotta be the one to tell them.

35:01

Divorce is just one of those things that's

35:03

so pervasive, it happens so often, that everybody

35:06

thinks it's just gonna continue on. We don't

35:08

realize how painful it is and how

35:11

disruptive it is to every corner of our life.

35:14

It's very real. Hailey

35:16

is with us in Oklahoma. Hi, Hailey.

35:18

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

35:20

Hey, what's up? Okay,

35:24

so my husband and I just really don't want to

35:26

be stuck in middle class for the rest of

35:29

our life. We've been married 10 years now. We

35:31

did your baby steps. One,

35:34

I think I made it to two maybe at the beginning, probably

35:37

four years ago. My

35:39

husband lost his job during COVID

35:41

and we moved from northwest Arkansas

35:43

over to Oklahoma and

35:46

the current job he has now, he's making

35:48

$65,000 a year. So,

35:51

he has a brand new truck

35:53

that is required by the job and

35:55

it has to be five years or newer. We're

35:58

really, really just trying to. to look

36:00

for another job he's been actively looking

36:03

and applying. So my question is, how

36:05

do we get him a good job

36:07

to support like our family? We are

36:09

currently in, we're fixing

36:11

to have a fourth baby. We have outgrown our

36:13

one vehicle that we do have that's his truck.

36:16

We're gonna need a newer vehicle. Just,

36:19

we feel like it's this recurring mountain of

36:22

living paycheck to paycheck and trying to set

36:24

back money. And when he lost his job

36:26

during COVID, we had money

36:28

set back in savings and depleted all of

36:30

that. Cause he was just working

36:32

odds and in jobs trying to make ends

36:35

meet. We both went

36:37

to college, both have bachelor's degrees. What's

36:39

your degree in? It's just,

36:41

poultry science and ag business. Okay.

36:45

And you have four littles at home.

36:48

Yes. And that's your job? Three littles, I'm

36:51

pregnant with the fourth one. No, three plus a three and a

36:53

half. Okay. And that's your full-time job.

36:55

Okay. Yes sir. And

36:58

his degree is in what? Same

37:00

thing. And you've got a, how much debt?

37:05

The truck is how much debt? The

37:08

truck is about 38,000 less. Okay.

37:11

And what else? We

37:14

have about, I

37:16

think maybe $5,000 more. Just

37:20

one of my student loans that, that

37:23

no, I was gonna get, we got that last year. And

37:25

then. How much is it? Just, it's

37:28

4,500. And

37:30

he has a 48,000 dollar truck, and what else? And

37:34

then we just, we have $1,000 on our credit card and

37:36

that's it. Okay. You

37:38

realize that you all lie to yourself about the

37:41

truck, right? Yes,

37:43

yeah. Okay, because you can buy a five

37:45

year old truck a lot cheaper than he bought that. That

37:48

met the guidelines for work. Well the truck has to be

37:50

eight, yeah. Yeah, it

37:52

has to be five years into everything. And

37:55

do they pay him up? Do they pay him in addition to 65,000

37:57

for the truck? Very

38:00

little. He gets like so many cents per

38:02

mile. It does not match up at all.

38:05

Okay. So his truck, it's only good for

38:08

another two years before it falls out of

38:10

the requirement. And so obviously looking for another

38:12

job to get out of that and

38:14

just sell his truck and be able to pay cash

38:16

something for us so they can be able to loan

38:19

our families. Yeah, I mean you can make $55,000 a year

38:21

and be way ahead of this. This is a bad deal.

38:24

Yeah. It's a really, really bad deal. So

38:29

how big a company is this that he works for?

38:34

Decently, sorry. I mean, they got a

38:36

thousand employees, a hundred employees, what? Probably

38:40

more than like a couple thousand and they're

38:42

in three, four, five, I think four different

38:44

states. Okay. They're one of the top

38:47

producers. Yeah. I think he needs to get a job. Yeah.

38:50

That's part of the answer. And

38:52

you guys can't lie to yourself next time

38:55

and say that a $48,000 truck fits your

38:57

world because it doesn't fit your world. Just

39:00

because somebody told you that you had to do that

39:02

to get a job, that you just don't take that

39:04

job. That's not a job. That was a no that

39:06

you said yes to. Yeah. Because

39:09

you're desperate and scared. You had little

39:11

to feed, I understand. But that

39:14

was a no. You should have done some, you

39:16

know, you've been better off doing almost anything else.

39:18

That was a trap. And

39:20

so, yeah, you know,

39:22

once he starts getting a sniff on a couple of

39:24

other positions, I would tell him to go to his

39:26

supervisor and say, I can't

39:28

stay anymore and finance a truck

39:31

for this multimillion-dollar company. Yeah.

39:35

This multimillion-dollar company wants me to buy them a

39:37

truck and I can't afford it. I

39:40

have four kids to feed and you

39:42

don't pay me enough to

39:45

finance a truck for you. So

39:47

screw this. Yeah.

39:50

I mean, really. But how do you set money back to

39:52

do that even when you do get a new job and

39:54

living paycheck to paycheck? Yeah. Well, you get

39:56

the truck sold and the only answers are

39:58

three things. One is... Expenses

40:01

go down, two is

40:03

income goes up, and three is we

40:05

manage the snot out of the money

40:07

we have using a detailed budget. That

40:09

part you're probably not doing. Probably

40:11

doing a decent job of what you got. You're

40:14

not flush or anything like that. You're not wasteful,

40:16

but you could tighten this up a lot. And

40:19

then you guys got to work on getting your income up, and

40:21

that includes you doing something from home. This

40:23

is the Ramsey Show. Well

40:32

we help people build wealth,

40:35

do work, set their love, and

40:38

create actual, amazing relationships.

40:41

Dr. John DeWiskey, Ramsey personality is

40:43

my co-host today, and we talk about your

40:45

life and your money. It's

40:48

a free call. Some say the advice is worth

40:50

exactly what you pay for it. The

40:52

phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Linda is with us

40:54

in Seattle. Hi,

41:03

Linda. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi.

41:06

Thank you very much for taking my call. Sure.

41:08

What's up? So

41:11

I have a 26-year-old

41:13

son, and he's getting

41:16

a PhD. And

41:19

he's a great kid. Love him

41:21

to death. Great heart. He

41:25

doesn't make a ton. He's on a budget.

41:27

He's very aware of his expenses. He's

41:30

in a low rent area. The

41:33

problem is he doesn't always have enough money

41:35

to make ends meet without

41:38

going into debt. My

41:40

question is, should I be

41:42

supplementing him monthly? I

41:45

can't afford it. Or

41:47

should I wait until he has

41:49

a car repair and

41:51

then give him that

41:53

or a computer repair? I'm

41:57

trying to get him on his feet. at

42:00

least he has four more years of his

42:03

program. I'm not, I don't want to enable

42:05

him but we both

42:07

don't want him, you know, he knows we don't want him

42:09

to go into debt but...

42:12

What's the program? It's

42:15

an environmental science program. He

42:19

just started? Well

42:21

he's one year in. It's

42:23

a five-year program for a PhD,

42:25

yeah. Mm-hmm. So they are, I guess

42:29

here's my... For

42:31

what? What's he gonna do? Well

42:35

he's probably going to

42:37

be working in a nonprofit when

42:39

he's done. He loves what he does, he's

42:43

doing a lot of research, he

42:45

does get paid, he has good benefits, medical,

42:48

all of that. He's going for five years to get

42:50

a job that doesn't pay well? Well

42:55

I'm hoping he will make,

42:58

you know, enough money when he gets out

43:00

to support himself. Well I

43:02

hope so after five freaking years working

43:04

on a PhD but

43:07

I mean his whole goal here is to work in

43:09

an underpaid job, that's what he's working towards. You

43:14

know he might own

43:16

the nonprofit actually when

43:18

he's done.

43:20

Well then we would call that

43:22

a for-profit. Why

43:25

does it have to be a nonprofit? I'm so

43:28

confused. Is he a TA? Yes.

43:31

Okay. Does he have some

43:33

restrictions on his work schedule? Yeah,

43:36

like he can't really go out and get another

43:39

job right now. It says

43:41

who? Is that program specific? Because here's

43:43

why. I got

43:45

a second PhD while working as an

43:48

associate dean, dean of

43:50

students at a law school while also

43:53

being a parent, while

43:55

also working in the graduate

43:57

school teaching classes for extra money on top of

43:59

all. other things. Now,

44:02

I had a heroic wife that kept the

44:05

house duct tape together and everything

44:07

moving and running, but I

44:10

hear grad students a lot telling me, you

44:12

know, I just can't and my first instinct

44:14

is I did and you can and I

44:17

had to go see clients on top of that. I mean I

44:19

had to see my client at six o'clock in the morning or

44:21

seven in the morning or seven at night because I had to

44:23

go to my full-time job and be a parent. And

44:27

so, if he's got TA responsibilities,

44:29

that's 20 hours a week and he gets

44:31

his benefits and his tuition discount and his

44:34

lab work, but

44:36

there's nothing to say he can't go work

44:38

at a restaurant and go get a full-time

44:41

job somewhere else in an adjacent field

44:43

that maybe is going to lead to career opportunities

44:45

bigger than I just

44:48

want to go whatever. You

44:50

see what I'm saying? I guess

44:53

I just don't buy it. Now, if you're getting a

44:55

PhD in psychology, they will tell you, you cannot work

44:57

another job or law school, you can't work another job

44:59

because it's too demanding. Cool, fine.

45:02

The payoff on the other end of those jobs is very

45:04

different than what you're describing as well. And

45:07

so, I guess I just have a hard time with

45:09

the, well, he just can't because he's busy. I don't

45:11

buy it. You figure out the time. You

45:14

figure out the time. And if you can't,

45:16

then you all have to as a family say, okay, he

45:18

can't afford this. As a family, are

45:21

we going to subsidize this for the

45:23

next four years because this problem doesn't

45:25

go away. It's not, you know, if

45:27

you create sustainability by you subsidizing it,

45:30

then it's a four-year promise because

45:34

we don't have an avenue, we don't have

45:36

an exit ramp to you sustaining it or

45:38

to you subsidizing it, right? Right,

45:41

okay. And I don't like

45:43

the, I don't like personally, I don't like the

45:45

problem specific. You just call us if you

45:47

have a problem because that's going

45:50

to lead to a lot of resentment and, well, did

45:52

you do that? I'd much rather prefer, hey, we're going

45:54

to agree to cover your rent. Yeah, I think I

45:56

would do the monthly amount if you're going to promise

45:58

to do something like that. four years. But

46:01

then on top of that answer

46:03

to your question, we're giving you two pieces

46:05

of advice. The first

46:07

one is John saying he needs to explore

46:09

work avenues because... Lots of

46:11

them. Yeah. And

46:14

most people who went to

46:16

college worked. Most

46:19

people. It's very unusual

46:21

for someone even working on a

46:23

PhD program to not work and

46:26

work a lot. I worked 40 to 60 hours.

46:29

I graduated in four years with a 2.97 because

46:32

I was at work all the time and

46:35

I got out of school. So if I wanted out

46:37

of school, I was paying for it. I didn't have

46:39

any desire to hang around that place. I wanted out.

46:42

And so I want to

46:44

quit writing them checks and start receiving checks. That

46:46

was my goal. So that's

46:48

the first piece of advice. The second piece of advice

46:51

is I think there's a

46:53

little bit more. If I'm his mom

46:56

and dad, before I start writing

46:58

them checks, because basically I'm endorsing

47:00

this path, I want to

47:02

know more about where this is taking me. Because

47:06

education for education's sake is a

47:08

bad plan when you're this broke.

47:11

It's a luxury. It's a luxury.

47:13

And education that's not

47:15

for luxury is for return

47:17

on investment. I'm not

47:20

hearing a good return on investment here in

47:23

what you're describing. And so

47:25

if you're going to go an extra five years to

47:28

school beyond a normal

47:31

four or five years, now we're talking

47:33

about a decade you've been in

47:35

school, then you should

47:38

have pay north of six figures

47:40

day one. Because

47:42

you can graduate with a four year degree in

47:45

logistics right now and walk out making 90 to

47:47

100. You

47:49

can be a diesel mechanic with a

47:51

two year degree and make 90 to

47:53

100. So what's

47:56

your ROI on this extra five

47:58

years of PhDing

48:01

and it needs to be more than I want

48:03

to be called doctor. Oh Absolutely,

48:05

and I've got friends who are into environmental issues

48:08

And then they have their day job and then

48:10

they work on these things on the weekends. They

48:12

go to presentations They if

48:14

you're passionate about something you can study it all day

48:16

long, but you don't take five years

48:18

out off of life to

48:21

go do this thing unless it's leading towards

48:24

a an obtainable goal the PhD should

48:26

be a requirement for Additional

48:28

income that you wouldn't have without the PhD.

48:30

Yeah or licensure or something You have to

48:32

have a picture to licensure that which takes

48:34

you to additional income, you know, you pass

48:37

the bar, right? Hello, you know something like

48:39

that. It needs to take you somewhere and

48:42

So I really want to understand more about that if

48:44

I'm in your shoes because I love my son. This

48:47

is the Ramsey show Dr.

48:54

John Deloni Ramsey personality is

48:56

my co-host today open

48:58

phones a triple-8 8 2 5 5 2

49:03

2 5. Thanks for joining us. Alex is with

49:05

us in Chattanooga. Hi Alex. Welcome to the show

49:09

Hey Dave, how are you today better than I deserve?

49:11

What's up? Hey, I

49:13

love the show of the air network actually came to

49:15

my debt-free screen with you a couple years ago So

49:17

thank you for you and your team and all that

49:19

you do. Thank you No,

49:21

thank you So I think I

49:23

know the answer to this but I kind of want to get

49:26

to like I guess Kind

49:28

of a second question if I can I have

49:30

an opportunity. I'm a registered nurse.

49:32

I'm 35 single no kids at

49:34

it There's an opportunity

49:36

for me to stop travel nursing

49:40

and relocate to San Francisco

49:43

for a staff position the

49:47

I would be making with no overtime

49:49

about 225 and I've talked

49:51

to some people they can make about up to 300,000

49:53

a year With

49:56

overtime now, I do understand it's

50:00

San Francisco, it's very expensive and all of

50:02

those things. But just

50:04

for traveling, there's just a lot of uncertainty.

50:06

Your contract can be canceled at any time.

50:08

The pay rates have gone down since COVID.

50:10

I'm kind of tired of being on the

50:12

road, kind of all those

50:15

things. I've talked to people that have been out there and they like

50:17

it. California does have some

50:19

strong unions. And

50:22

with that, you have, you know, your guaranteed

50:25

staffing ratios, because you know, the other thing-

50:27

Okay, how can we help? I'm sorry. I

50:30

know at San Francisco, is it

50:32

crazy to think to move out there for, I

50:36

mean, what's the high cost of living

50:38

out there? Well,

50:42

I mean, like, you know, you've obviously analyzed

50:44

that. 300,000 in San Francisco is not 300,000 in Columbus,

50:46

Ohio, or

50:51

Dallas, Texas. You've

50:54

got a, number one, you got a 14% tax

50:56

now, income tax there, but you don't

50:58

have another state. And you've

51:01

got an extremely high cost of living. San Francisco is one

51:03

of the most expensive cities to live in in the world.

51:06

And so, as long as you've analyzed

51:08

all of that and you still want to go, I'm not

51:11

going to tell somebody not to do what they want to

51:13

do. That's what you want to do. Okay.

51:17

I mean, I mean, there's nothing wrong with what you're analyzing. What

51:20

is interesting to me though is this,

51:24

what I might think about if I'm you, because

51:26

I feel like you're, the

51:29

fact that you're asking us the question

51:31

is, it's

51:34

almost like you've got some hesitation.

51:37

Like you're not really complete

51:40

gun hole, right? So, one of

51:44

the things I always like to do is, I make

51:46

better decisions if I have lots of options. You

51:48

presented me only two options, a

51:51

declining income with travel and

51:53

your declining desire to travel,

51:57

versus San Francisco. Those are only two

51:59

options. What about a third

52:01

or fourth or fifth option that includes

52:05

other cities at 200,000 that nets

52:10

out of lifestyle and taxes about

52:12

the same? And

52:15

it's a quality of life you like more or less.

52:17

I don't know. But

52:20

it feels like you have to take this because

52:22

it's your only exit from the road. And

52:24

that's simply not accurate. Yes,

52:29

sir. I completely agree. Yeah, I'm

52:31

essentially looking forward to, like I said, I'm

52:33

single. I want to go somewhere and settle

52:35

some roots. And so I

52:38

can, as a nurse, I did have the luxury

52:40

of going those places. I mean, just nursing pay,

52:42

like I said, I live in Chattanooga. The pay

52:44

in the South is just

52:46

one of the lowest. I've lived in Memphis

52:48

and traveled around the South for the last

52:50

couple of years. I

52:53

mean, the pay that I got offered

52:55

here in Chattanooga was $33 an hour and extra. But

52:59

again, you're using a barbell, dude. You've

53:03

got one on one side and one on the other. There's a

53:05

big middle range there. I've

53:08

gotten myself in trouble chasing a salary

53:10

amount that made me feel like I

53:12

was being valued and not doing the

53:14

math in a 360-degree way. And

53:18

again, if you keep saying I'm single, if you're

53:20

single and you think the San Francisco vibe is

53:22

cool and that's a vibe you want to live

53:25

in, it's a lifestyle, the environment you

53:30

want to plug into socially, that kind of stuff,

53:33

have at it, dude. I got no issue with that

53:35

at all. I'm

53:37

a redneck hillbilly. The

53:40

chances of me doing that is zero because

53:42

I would stand out like a

53:44

sore thumb there, so I wouldn't fit in and

53:47

wouldn't want to. But that's okay.

53:49

That doesn't mean it's not for you. So

53:51

I can't advise you on that part of it. You've got to

53:54

decide that for yourself. I

54:00

am going to challenge you to find three more solid

54:02

offers and quit just blowing

54:04

up the entire South. Oh, come on, give me a

54:06

break. Freaking Atlanta, Georgia, Nashville,

54:08

Tennessee, which is the center of Hospital

54:11

Corporation of America and three other major

54:13

hospital companies, a major medical corridor,

54:15

it runs right through freaking

54:18

Nashville, is underpaid. Give me a break. Not

54:20

a chance. Not a chance.

54:23

So, the other thing, go spend some time.

54:26

When my wife and I were deciding, we

54:28

decided, hey, we're going to leave West Texas,

54:32

we went and visited some places. One of them was

54:34

in Nashville. We came here to watch, to see a

54:36

concert and to just spend a couple of days here.

54:39

And we left thinking, all right, that one's

54:41

on our list. And so go experience the

54:43

place, man. But I think you're

54:45

tied to, somebody said 300,000 and your heart went, that's

54:47

right. And

54:50

you're going to make it work. You're

54:53

going to tell yourself any number of stories to back up,

54:55

I want to make $300,000 and

54:58

good on you, but don't

55:01

do it just for that number. Yeah,

55:03

that would be a mistake because I think you could

55:05

have a comparable number other places.

55:07

If you put a little research into

55:10

your job hunt, you know, get on

55:12

kingcoleman.com and let's lay that

55:14

out. But again, if you just decide

55:16

to go do it, Kristen, Alex, there's

55:18

nothing wrong with what you're doing. Beautiful

55:21

part of the country. Absolutely

55:23

gorgeous, you're right. And

55:25

there's a lot of very cool stuff there. There's a

55:27

lot of very uncool stuff there too. But

55:30

it's just a matter of where you want to live and what

55:32

you want to do and what you want to plug into. But

55:36

no, is it a slam dunk decision? No,

55:38

it's not. And you make

55:40

better decisions the more options you have.

55:42

Options, options, options gives you power. It

55:45

gives you the sense to calm down. You can

55:47

negotiate better with the other option if you've got

55:50

real options outside of your thing. So

55:53

always have lots of different things you can do

55:55

when you're making a decision. Open

55:57

phones at 888-825-4243. 5-225.

56:00

I was with Ken

56:04

Coleman and some of the guys working on his team earlier

56:06

this morning we're talking about one of the things that's popping

56:08

up right now with people looking

56:11

for positions is soft

56:14

skills. We've got

56:16

a group of people regardless

56:18

of age that or

56:20

which generation if you want to label it one way

56:23

or another that don't

56:25

have good EQ,

56:27

emotional quotient. They cannot

56:31

do conflict. They cannot

56:34

do basic conversations. Look people in the eye,

56:37

string a sentence together,

56:39

have a standard normal

56:41

in-person person-to-person conversation because

56:43

they've done everything on their phone and

56:46

their brains are wired and

56:49

they've lost the ability to do it other than

56:51

they can text you across the room. They can't

56:53

sit and talk to you like a person and

56:56

so these soft skills are a big problem. Decision-making

56:58

is one of those soft skills because what happens

57:00

in the digital world if you don't like something

57:02

you just move. You

57:05

can't do that if you move to San Francisco. It's

57:09

harder to undo real decisions instead

57:11

of virtual decisions. Virtual

57:13

means not real. That's

57:17

what it means literally. That's the meaning

57:19

of the word. It's not real. It's

57:21

a fake version of real. That's what

57:24

virtual means. Look it up in the

57:26

dictionary. So you know soft skills in

57:28

that goes decision-making. So decision-making is one

57:30

good decision-making rule. You

57:33

need more options. Another decision-making rule is

57:36

the more important the decision, the

57:38

larger the impact of the decision,

57:41

the slower you make the decision.

57:43

That's why you don't go out on a date and

57:45

get married the next day. Right?

57:48

That's why you don't go look at a car and

57:50

buy it when you walk on the lot. It's

57:53

why you don't buy a house

57:55

having looked at only one. Right?

57:57

Big decisions require length of time.

58:00

time to make wise decisions. Small decisions you

58:02

can make fast. Because you can

58:04

not, you know, what pack of gum do I want?

58:06

You can make that decision. If it's wrong, it doesn't

58:08

kill you. But the other stuff will throw you off.

58:10

Slow down on the big stuff. This

58:13

is the Ramsey Show. Dr.

58:19

John Deloni, Ramsey Personality, is

58:22

my co-host today. Well, let's

58:24

face it, taxes suck. They're

58:27

confusing. We don't like

58:29

them. No one wants to finance

58:31

a $25,000 toilet seat, and we all know we're

58:34

doing it. We all know the government's irresponsible

58:36

with our money when we send it to them, but we have

58:38

to do it. Because there's jail time

58:40

involved. So we have to do it, right? So

58:42

we're going to do what we're supposed to do.

58:45

So people ask all the time, what's the

58:47

truth about taxes? Well, here's the

58:49

truth. Don't trust just anybody with your taxes. Because

58:52

a lot of people say that taxes are like a lot of things. A

58:54

lot of people say they know something about it, and they don't. So

58:56

if you have a complicated return, we

58:59

have vetted and worked with, in

59:01

detail, done the due diligence on

59:04

about a thousand folks that are

59:06

professional tax preparers that can help

59:08

you with a really

59:10

complicated return. They're

59:12

Ramsey trusted. The reason they're trusted is

59:15

we check them out up and down,

59:17

right? And so just

59:19

go to Ramsey trusted or

59:22

go to ramsesolutions.com/taxpro, and

59:24

you can find the one in your area, and they'll sit

59:26

down with you. Now, if you do not have a complicated

59:28

return, I wouldn't spend that much

59:30

money. I would just go get the Ramsey

59:32

SmartTax software. It's very inexpensive, 30, 40 bucks.

59:35

There's no extra add-ons, no gotchas. I'm not going

59:37

to try to sell you a credit card or

59:39

some other crap like these people at TurboTax. Their

59:41

whole thing is they want to sell you something

59:44

else other than tax work. And

59:47

so our deal is real simple. That's why there's

59:49

now, this year, I think they'll

59:51

have about 100,000 people prepare their taxes with

59:53

the Ramsey SmartTax software because it's

59:55

very simple. You just try to boom, boom,

59:58

boom, boom. There we go. ramsesolutions.com. We'll

1:00:01

hook you up. Kristin's with us

1:00:03

in San Antonio. Hi, Kristin. Welcome to the Ramsey

1:00:06

Show. Hey, Dave

1:00:08

and John. I

1:00:10

am kind of considering maybe

1:00:12

buying my mom a car. She's turning 70. Very

1:00:15

soon. I'm super excited for

1:00:17

her. I just want to do something

1:00:19

totally generous, just blow her mind, and

1:00:22

just want to be smart about it too. That's

1:00:24

awesome. Very cool. Very cool,

1:00:26

Kristin. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:29

I assume you have the money in cash. I got my mom

1:00:31

a high five when she turned 70. Now I'm feeling bad. Well,

1:00:35

I've given her many high fives, but I'm ready to

1:00:37

maybe do a little bit more. I do have the

1:00:39

money in cash. How much is the car? Well,

1:00:43

I haven't even started looking too

1:00:45

seriously because I just didn't

1:00:47

know if I was being crazy or not. I don't know. What

1:00:50

do you think of it roughly? I mean, are you talking about spending $100,000 or $50,000 or

1:00:52

$10,000? Between

1:00:55

$25,000 and $30,000. Okay. All

1:00:57

right. How much is it? Okay.

1:01:01

Good for you. Getting there. Good

1:01:03

for you. So what are you, $50,000? Yeah.

1:01:07

Good for you. What do you make? Thank

1:01:09

you. Last year, made a little over $200,000. Hopefully

1:01:13

on track for that this year, which is kind of

1:01:15

why. You're killing it. And you're out of

1:01:18

debt? I am. Totally debt

1:01:20

free. I have 65 left on my house.

1:01:22

Good for you. So I'm still close. Good for

1:01:24

you. Yeah. Thank

1:01:26

you. Okay. That sounds very

1:01:28

wise to me. I

1:01:32

just, I'm so frugal. I don't

1:01:34

spend money. I just want to

1:01:36

pull her mind. I just, I

1:01:39

think that would be really cool. I mean,

1:01:41

is there any issue with the relationship with her? No.

1:01:45

My mom is not controlling,

1:01:47

not enabled. You're not trying to make up

1:01:50

for some childhood scar by doing this or.

1:01:53

No. I just want to bless her. She

1:01:56

took care of my dad when he was sick. He

1:01:59

passed away. 25 years ago, he was 40,

1:02:01

I died from cancer. She's very

1:02:03

remarried. She lives just a quiet

1:02:05

knife. She'd be there for my sister and I

1:02:08

in a heartbeat. With anything, she's

1:02:10

supported me my whole life and no

1:02:13

guilt, no nothing, just, I

1:02:15

just love my amazing mom and I just wanna do

1:02:17

something outrageous for her. Touchdown.

1:02:21

You're very cool. I really like

1:02:23

you. A lot. Thank

1:02:26

you. Yeah, I hope my kid says something about me like that. That'd

1:02:29

be neat. I can't speak, Kristen,

1:02:31

because I'm gonna cry and I haven't done that yet on any

1:02:33

of these shows and I'm pretty dang close. I

1:02:35

cried in Apple Beach commercials. Kristen,

1:02:39

you're pretty amazing. You're pretty amazing, honey. Go buy

1:02:41

the car. There's absolutely zero check in anything you're

1:02:43

saying. Please send us a photo or a video

1:02:45

of your mom getting it and send it here

1:02:48

to the guys on the show. Yeah,

1:02:50

we'll put it up on the YouTube. I wanna see it personally.

1:02:53

That's a beautiful story. Yeah, it's a great story.

1:02:55

I've got friends that have done that. A

1:02:57

lot of people, but I wanna tell you guys. I

1:03:00

wanna tell you guys. I want you to tell

1:03:02

a friend's family. It can be just for her.

1:03:04

And so I definitely will take a photo and. One

1:03:07

of my favorite stories, and we've videoed it. We haven't played

1:03:09

it in a while. I don't know if it's on the

1:03:11

YouTube channel or not. It's an old story. A buddy of

1:03:13

mine, his dad,

1:03:16

this friend of mine is 60. So

1:03:19

his dad, or is 50

1:03:21

something, right? So his

1:03:23

dad sold a 1930 or 40 or something

1:03:26

car when,

1:03:30

that wouldn't have been that old. It would have

1:03:32

been 1960s or something. Okay. Oh,

1:03:34

I knew you were talking about, yeah. I'm trying to think. And

1:03:36

he sold the car when his kid was, when my buddy was

1:03:38

born, his dad couldn't afford this car anymore.

1:03:40

He sold it. He sold it to a friend down the

1:03:42

street. That friend kept it for many,

1:03:45

many years and sold it to a pastor. And

1:03:49

my buddy now is making big money and he

1:03:51

went and found that pastor still had it, talked

1:03:53

him into selling it back to him and

1:03:56

gave it back to his dad. Like 50

1:03:58

years later. I Saw that video. That when

1:04:00

got me get out and that's

1:04:02

that's a version of what you're

1:04:04

doing writer and it's really cool

1:04:06

is very to our artists you

1:04:08

baby steps. Seven is build wealth

1:04:10

and Gales. We. Tell people

1:04:13

what I'm live like no one else

1:04:15

so later you can give and li

1:04:17

of like no one else and that's

1:04:19

where exactly what you're doing. You're amazing

1:04:21

by your mama car you to touchdown.

1:04:24

That's. So cool, So fine. This.

1:04:27

Is what money's good for. It's

1:04:29

not good for much else. Feed.

1:04:31

You. Legion. And seat

1:04:34

others. It's. About what is good

1:04:36

for this really good carriers were the

1:04:38

Senate all am today Georgia Hey Carey

1:04:40

welcome to the Ramsey show! Or

1:04:43

yell better than I deserve. What's up? I'm

1:04:47

okay. So either things yourself about

1:04:49

eight months. I'm undated that number

1:04:51

two am I paid off and out

1:04:53

or thousand dollars. Worth a damn, About

1:04:55

ninety three thousand and left ago. But

1:04:58

that my mortgage. So including mortgage

1:05:00

on. Question Out Had

1:05:02

some ah work care guy

1:05:04

com man and said that

1:05:06

I need a new H

1:05:08

taxistan I may need a

1:05:10

new electrical more pair Adams

1:05:12

Plumbing altogether it's can weed

1:05:14

out twenty one thousand dollars

1:05:16

and I use. Yes,

1:05:19

Ivory. Stop stop of

1:05:21

images thrive in the Aids virus. Now

1:05:23

there is a segment of that world

1:05:25

that does that. Don't. Let that go

1:05:27

back. In your house is a crook. I'm

1:05:32

calling Bs. He told

1:05:34

your family was in danger didn't. See.

1:05:38

That in our culture quality now and they

1:05:40

be at your house My burn down and

1:05:42

it'll be your faulted for children Bad. Guy

1:05:45

says it's almost as got back in your

1:05:47

house with her. You. Can tell A nose

1:05:50

for up drone. That. Will

1:05:52

Lay. Down there's a. There's. a segment

1:05:54

of the heating and air business that does

1:05:56

a wonderful job in there is a segments

1:05:59

that are completion And they will come

1:06:01

in and tell you that your furnace is leaking

1:06:03

and your you know your everybody in the house

1:06:05

is gonna dive carbon Monoxide poisoning if you don't

1:06:07

fix it although it's been this way for five

1:06:10

years, and we all seem to be fine But

1:06:13

yeah, this is a this is bull

1:06:15

crap now. Do you maybe need a

1:06:17

new furnace in the future? Yeah, but

1:06:19

is it nearly as expensive or? Urgent

1:06:23

as you were told a hundred

1:06:25

percent No, you can do

1:06:27

this much cheaper than this bozo, and

1:06:30

it's probably not as urgent as he

1:06:32

said I'm not a hundred percent sure,

1:06:34

but I'm ninety nine point seven percent

1:06:36

sure Okay I've

1:06:39

already put about fifty five hundred dollars

1:06:42

into the house to get the crawl

1:06:44

space waterproof The house

1:06:46

is about thirty years old, and I only

1:06:48

plan on being here about another seven years.

1:06:51

Do you? Think I

1:06:53

should put more money into the house Well,

1:06:56

I mean if the if the heating and air is not working

1:06:58

you're going to have to fix the heating and air But right

1:07:00

now we don't have that issue Okay,

1:07:03

yeah, you're gonna have to put more money in the house

1:07:05

if you live there in some breaks You're gonna have to

1:07:07

do that, but do you upgrade? $21,000

1:07:11

worth of stuff cuz some bozo no and

1:07:13

carry you owe a hundred thousand dollars don't you? 93

1:07:21

not including my mortgage yeah Stop stop fixing

1:07:24

your house unless something's broken. It's in

1:07:26

dire shape nothing's leaking or Sparking

1:07:28

or anything like that just keep moving

1:07:31

yeah, this is the Ramsey show If

1:07:36

you've taken financial peace University You know

1:07:38

how life-changing it is and there's no

1:07:41

better way to share that hope than

1:07:43

by leading an FPU class at your

1:07:45

church Because right now someone you know

1:07:48

in your church is struggling bad. They're

1:07:50

drowning in debt They're scared to death and

1:07:52

don't know what to do and you can

1:07:54

be the one to step up and give

1:07:57

them hope just like your FPU coordinator did

1:07:59

for you Start making a

1:08:01

difference as a coordinator by

1:08:03

going to fpu.com/lead Dr.

1:08:08

John Deloni Ramsey personality is my

1:08:10

co-host today open phones a triple-eight

1:08:13

825 5 2 to

1:08:15

5 Well,

1:08:18

we've got three events coming up where

1:08:20

you can get Ramsey teachings live in

1:08:23

person in an auditorium with thousands

1:08:25

of other people Just like you total

1:08:28

money makeover weekend event May

1:08:31

10th and 11th this two-day event is

1:08:34

the ultimate motivator to get fired up

1:08:37

join us in Nashville And you can leave money stress at

1:08:39

the door. We're not only going to get you out of

1:08:41

debt We're going to get you into wealth we're going to

1:08:43

talk to you about generosity how to get your income up

1:08:46

How to walk through the relational issues as you're

1:08:48

doing all of this How

1:08:50

to be married or not married with money and without money.

1:08:53

We're going to walk through the whole thing it is a

1:08:55

total Money makeover weekend

1:08:57

May 10 and 11 on

1:08:59

the campus here the Ramsey Event

1:09:02

Center on the hill it only holds 2,400 It

1:09:05

is on its way to being an early sellout and

1:09:07

you need to get your tickets now The

1:09:10

next thing is I'm going to be doing

1:09:12

something. I've never done before Dave Ramsey's investing

1:09:14

essentials a two-night virtual event May

1:09:16

21 and 22

1:09:19

it's my personal playbook on investing in real

1:09:21

estate George Campbell and I are going

1:09:23

to unpack the basics of investing and also go deep

1:09:25

on Real estate and other investing

1:09:27

and the scams that are out there and

1:09:30

the things that the rich don't do the

1:09:32

lies that are told To you by tick-tock

1:09:34

and other social media platforms about this The

1:09:37

last one is a money and marriage event next fall October

1:09:39

24 and 25. This is dr. John

1:09:42

Deloney and Rachel Cruz

1:09:44

with real-life Answers to

1:09:46

your hard questions about money and marriage

1:09:48

a whole weekend away with your

1:09:50

spouse in Nashville again The

1:09:53

Ramsey Event Center all of

1:09:55

these events are available at Ramsey solutions

1:09:57

comm slash events all of

1:09:59

these events are fun, you will laugh, you will

1:10:01

cry, you can bring the person who thinks you're

1:10:03

crazy for doing this stuff, they will leave being

1:10:05

as crazy as you are. They'll

1:10:07

be on board, on game, ready

1:10:10

to go. We will convince

1:10:12

them because the stuff we teach

1:10:14

absolutely works and we love helping

1:10:16

people. So make plans to attend one

1:10:18

of these. We would love to have you here on campus

1:10:20

with us and stop by anytime

1:10:23

and watch the show. We do it

1:10:25

on the glass here right now from

1:10:27

1 to 4 central time every day

1:10:29

Monday through Friday. There's a couple

1:10:31

of Ramsey personalities sitting in these seats. I'm usually one

1:10:33

of them if I'm in town and then the rest

1:10:35

of them mix and match and fill it

1:10:37

in and that's how we do it. So come and join us.

1:10:39

We'd love to have you. Shawn is with us. Shawn

1:10:41

is in Kansas City. Hi Shawn. Welcome

1:10:43

to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank

1:10:46

you so much for having me on. Sure. What's

1:10:48

up? Well, I

1:10:51

wanted to ask you about the baby steps. I've

1:10:53

been watching the show for about a month and

1:10:55

I suppose I should give you a little bit of

1:10:57

backstory as well just to give you an idea of

1:11:00

why I'm asking the question. My

1:11:02

wife and I just had our first son. Yay.

1:11:05

A couple months old. Thank you.

1:11:08

Yeah. So John was nice enough

1:11:10

to help me out there. He decided to throw up his

1:11:12

lunch while I was waiting. So

1:11:14

I wanted to ask about baby steps

1:11:16

3 and 4 because

1:11:19

I was actually able to get some

1:11:21

401k from my previous job and

1:11:24

I was able to actually save up quite a bit

1:11:26

of money while I worked at that job. And

1:11:29

so doing baby step 2 to pay down

1:11:31

all the debt is technically something I can

1:11:33

do. But then with

1:11:35

the amount of money I would free up each month,

1:11:37

it would seem like it would take me forever to

1:11:39

do baby step 3. And

1:11:42

then when I saw baby step 4, and correct

1:11:44

me if I'm wrong, because you match your employer,

1:11:47

and then you do 15% and 15% I believe. So

1:11:51

it just seems like- I'm confused. There's only 15%

1:11:53

and 15%. So

1:11:56

baby step 1 is $1,000 in the bank. Baby

1:11:59

step 2 is your- pay off all of your debt except

1:12:01

your home. Do you have any debt except your home?

1:12:05

We do, yes. Okay, how much is that? So

1:12:09

that is close to 40,000. On what? So we have

1:12:15

two car payments, we

1:12:17

have a hospital bill for my son's birth, and

1:12:19

then we also had to take him to the emergency room,

1:12:22

and then my wife's student loan debt.

1:12:25

And how much is her student loan debt is

1:12:27

how much of the car? How much is the

1:12:29

student loan debt? I'm sorry. 33,000. So

1:12:32

most of this, your two car payments are $7,000? If

1:12:37

I pay off both the cars... I asked you how much

1:12:39

debt you had, you said $40,000. Then you told

1:12:42

me you had $33,000 of student loan debt. That means you've got $7,000

1:12:44

on two cars? And

1:12:48

the hospital bills. You only owe

1:12:50

$7,000 on two cars. I owe $5,000 on the two cars. Okay,

1:12:57

all right. Wow, okay. Yeah, because my son's hospital bill

1:12:59

was $3,000. I got you, I got you. Okay, I'm

1:13:01

just... because I was thinking you... I thought you didn't

1:13:03

tell me all the debt right. That's what I was...

1:13:05

Okay, it is right. I got you. Okay. So

1:13:08

your household income is what? About

1:13:11

$70,000. Good. And you're 26,

1:13:13

right? No,

1:13:15

I'm 31. Thank you for telling

1:13:17

me that. Okay, that's okay. I mean, you

1:13:19

got a brand new baby and you're making $70,000,

1:13:21

right? So, all right. And what

1:13:24

do you do for a living? I'm

1:13:26

an electrical apprentice. Okay, all right.

1:13:29

So first thing is we clear up the $40,000. Now

1:13:32

you don't have any payments. Then

1:13:34

you build an emergency fund of three to six

1:13:36

months of expenses because some of your debt is

1:13:39

due to not having an emergency fund. Right?

1:13:44

Okay. And then once

1:13:46

we have an emergency fund of three to six months

1:13:48

of expenses, how fast can you do that? You don't

1:13:50

have any payments in the world. You haven't been living

1:13:52

on a written budget yet. You've just been discussing the

1:13:54

possibility of doing this whole Ramsey thing. But once you're

1:13:56

living on a written budget for 90 days, you're going

1:13:58

to feel like you got a... to raise because your

1:14:00

money is going to work a lot harder. Right

1:14:02

now there is a lot of waste in your budget. My

1:14:06

wife and I were discussing that and how we

1:14:08

can cut back on the budget. You haven't done

1:14:10

the budget yet. Well,

1:14:13

we were discussing things we can cut back on.

1:14:16

It's theory. When

1:14:18

you actually start doing it, you

1:14:21

will find more margin than you realize

1:14:23

you have. You're doing all

1:14:25

this stuff in your head right

1:14:28

now and hypotheticals rather than actually

1:14:30

freaking doing it. So actually

1:14:32

start doing a budget for 90 days and then I

1:14:34

promise you from 32 years of doing what I

1:14:36

do, you will feel like you've gotten a raise. You

1:14:38

will find money you didn't realize you had. Now, then

1:14:41

you're going to be able to build a 3

1:14:43

to 6 months of emergency fund. It's going to take

1:14:45

you about 6 months to a year

1:14:47

after you pay off the $40,000 in debt. Then

1:14:50

and only then are you going to start putting

1:14:53

money into your 401K and then

1:14:55

and only then baby step

1:14:57

4 is 15% of your household income. Does

1:15:00

your wife work outside the home? Yes,

1:15:03

she works outside the home. What does she make? She

1:15:08

makes about, so

1:15:10

together we make 70, she makes about 35 of

1:15:12

that. Okay.

1:15:15

Alright. So when will your apprenticeship be done? In

1:15:19

a couple of years. I just started about 6 months

1:15:21

ago. What will your income do then? Double?

1:15:26

I'll go up to $40 an hour. Yeah, and

1:15:28

you're at $20 now? Yeah.

1:15:31

Yeah, it's double. Kind of like double. Yeah,

1:15:35

okay. And so then

1:15:37

what we're going to do is you're going

1:15:39

to be making $100,000 a year and you will

1:15:43

be debt free and you're putting $15,000 a year,

1:15:45

15% of your household income regardless of

1:15:49

match. You put in 15%

1:15:51

of your household income. So by then you've been making $100,000, you're

1:15:53

putting $15,000 away and by then you'll be 35

1:15:57

years old and so you have 30 years if

1:15:59

you never. get a raise to invest $15,000 a year. Okay.

1:16:04

And that's going to amount to about $8 million at

1:16:06

65. Okay.

1:16:10

So I understand, um, I

1:16:13

understand what you're saying, but my question is, and

1:16:16

if I'm doing this all in my

1:16:18

head, right, how do we

1:16:20

plan for the extra money properly

1:16:23

when baby steps two and three are essentially

1:16:25

what you say, living on beans and rice,

1:16:28

because if I have to take my son to the

1:16:30

emergency room again, I have to get a

1:16:32

car. Um, the

1:16:34

only way, you know, how to get a car

1:16:37

was half to get a car. Well,

1:16:40

in case something happens and we have to pay

1:16:43

for it to get repaired or we have to

1:16:45

fixing a car could have been by, you have

1:16:47

a thousand dollars. Or

1:16:50

if one of the vehicles breaks, bro, what if we get

1:16:52

by? Keep

1:16:55

doing what you've been doing and you stay broke as hell

1:16:57

to the rest of your life, you could

1:16:59

do that too. That's an option. So

1:17:03

my question is in those

1:17:05

emergencies, I have the savings fund for three to

1:17:07

six months, which you recommend I

1:17:10

pull from that resource. Yeah. It's an emergency. Yes. Yeah.

1:17:12

If you get us to go to emergency, you have

1:17:14

your three to six months. If you're in baby step

1:17:16

two, no, you're only going to have a thousand dollars.

1:17:19

So you're going to have, you're going to have to stop your baby. You're

1:17:22

going to stop your baby step to your debt snowball. That

1:17:24

point and fix that. If that happens during the two years that

1:17:26

it takes you to get out of debt, but you should be

1:17:28

out of debt in two years or

1:17:30

less. So listen,

1:17:32

dude, you're over analyzing this. You need

1:17:35

to go do it. That's

1:17:37

the difference. And then tell me how it's

1:17:39

wrong. Millions of people have done what

1:17:41

I'm telling you to do. It absolutely works. This

1:17:44

is the Ramsey show. Live

1:17:50

on the headquarters of Ramsey

1:17:53

solutions. It's the Ramsey show where

1:17:55

we help people build wealth, do

1:17:58

work that they love. create

1:18:00

actual amazing relations. Dr.

1:18:03

Drownedalow, you Ramsey personality,

1:18:05

Dr. Drownedalow is my

1:18:07

co-host today. Thank you

1:18:10

for joining us. You can hear him every week

1:18:12

on the Ramsey Networks as well. You want to

1:18:14

be sure and tune in on that and check

1:18:16

out many of his number one best-selling books on

1:18:19

relationships, boundaries, mental health, and

1:18:21

such. So we're here to help. The

1:18:23

phone number is 828-825-5225. Luke's in Kansas City. Luke,

1:18:28

what's up in your world? Hi,

1:18:30

thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we

1:18:32

help? Yeah, so

1:18:34

I am considering going into business with my father,

1:18:36

and my question is, I wanted to see, do

1:18:39

you have any advice for going into business with

1:18:41

family, and what should I be most aware of?

1:18:44

Yeah, don't. I'm just kidding. Still kidding. I'm

1:18:47

sitting by a guy who runs a pretty successful family

1:18:49

business, so I'm just being a smart aleck dude. I

1:18:52

enjoy working with my family

1:18:54

in the business, but

1:18:57

we have worked at it so

1:19:00

that we could enjoy it. All right,

1:19:03

so I can do a whole seminar on this. It takes

1:19:05

eight hours. I'll try to give you some high points. Okay?

1:19:08

Yeah. Number one, when

1:19:11

you're on site working

1:19:13

with your father, he

1:19:15

is not your father.

1:19:17

He's your boss. Okay.

1:19:20

So you don't use your whiny,

1:19:22

teenager voice on him, right?

1:19:26

Yeah. You treat him like

1:19:28

you would treat your boss at another

1:19:30

place. He owns the freaking company. You

1:19:32

work for him. You're an

1:19:34

employee. Act like it. Okay?

1:19:38

And he, in turn, my advice to

1:19:40

him is to treat your son with

1:19:43

the same dignity and

1:19:45

respect and compensation that

1:19:48

you would another team member in that

1:19:50

same position. So

1:19:53

when my son came on board out of college,

1:19:55

he started selling radio ads, which is one of

1:19:57

the hardest jobs in the building, up

1:20:00

with these things called ad agencies, which are a

1:20:02

royal pain in the butt. And

1:20:04

he had a really tough year, year and a half, but

1:20:06

he wasn't working for me. He was working for a guy that

1:20:09

worked for a guy that worked for a guy that worked

1:20:11

for me. Several layers down in

1:20:13

the company, right? But he was getting the college knocked

1:20:15

off of him for sure. And

1:20:18

so he had a tough year and a

1:20:20

half here, but he got paid the same

1:20:23

pay that the other sales people

1:20:25

selling ads got paid. And

1:20:27

he treated me with the same respect that he would

1:20:30

the CEO of a company that he worked for if

1:20:32

he had gone to work somewhere else. And I treated

1:20:34

him the same way with respect while we're on site.

1:20:37

My kids don't even call me dad on

1:20:39

site. They call me Dave. Because

1:20:44

if you go into a meeting and say, my

1:20:46

daddy said it's a different meeting,

1:20:48

right? Then Broom just tilted. Yeah,

1:20:51

bro. Let me tell you the first time

1:20:53

Rachel Cruz started saying Dave freaking said this

1:20:55

and this in that meeting. And I

1:20:58

finally said, are you setting me up? Am

1:21:00

I supposed to be like, yeah, or no. I

1:21:03

didn't know what to do. And that's when she clued me in. No,

1:21:05

no, no. Here at work, he's

1:21:07

Dave. He's Dave. At home. And

1:21:09

when I'm at home, I put on my Papa Dave hat and I spoil

1:21:11

her kids. That's my job. Give

1:21:14

them lots of sugar and send them home. So that's my deal, right? And

1:21:18

so when we're at work, we wear work hats, and when

1:21:20

we're at home, we change our hat. And

1:21:23

so I'm dad or Papa Dave or whatever at

1:21:25

home. And I'm father-in-law

1:21:27

at home. That

1:21:30

kind of thing. I have daughters and-

1:21:32

How do you keep that, how do you set

1:21:34

that boundary to be consistent? Wait, we actually- You

1:21:36

don't actually fall into that. We police it on

1:21:38

each other. We don't violate. We don't

1:21:40

talk business either except on site. Okay.

1:21:43

So Christmas dinner is not spoiled for everyone else

1:21:45

by the two goopers that work there. Right?

1:21:48

Because nobody else wants to hear all the crap that you two are going

1:21:51

to deal with. Yeah. Your

1:21:53

wife doesn't want to hear it all. She hears it all when you

1:21:55

come home at night anyway. That kind of stuff. So

1:21:58

you need to have some onsite, offsite. rules

1:22:00

like that and he needs

1:22:02

to pay you fairly but not overpay

1:22:04

you. Pay you for the position,

1:22:06

not for the position of son. And

1:22:11

then you need to get in there and earn your dadgum

1:22:13

stripes and earn the right to

1:22:15

move up to the organization so that no one looks

1:22:17

down on you when you do move up in the

1:22:20

organization because this guy worked twice as hard

1:22:22

as everybody else. You

1:22:25

got to work twice as hard to be respected

1:22:27

because they immediately think you're the doober boss's son

1:22:30

and you got to earn the team, earn the rest of

1:22:33

the team. And our kids do that. They've

1:22:35

done a wonderful job of working,

1:22:37

they work their tails off man

1:22:40

and our team

1:22:42

has great respect for them and I'm very proud

1:22:44

of that. So that's a couple of things that

1:22:46

you can do. Another thing

1:22:48

or two to remember is that

1:22:52

no family business is more or

1:22:55

less functional than the family is.

1:22:59

So if you have tremendous family dysfunction,

1:23:01

if your relationship with your dad is

1:23:03

wicked sideways, don't expect it to

1:23:05

be anything else when you go to work over there. It's

1:23:07

going to be just as dumb as it is otherwise. But

1:23:09

if you and your dad get along good, you like fishing

1:23:11

together, hunting together, you like doing whatever it is you do

1:23:13

together, all that kind of stuff,

1:23:16

you like hanging out as two adults now together,

1:23:18

then that's going to work real good inside the

1:23:20

business. My son and I, we ski together,

1:23:22

we do all kinds of, we shoot together, we do all kinds

1:23:24

of stuff. My daughters and

1:23:26

I do stuff, we enjoy each other

1:23:28

as adults. And so that's

1:23:30

going to show up in the business. But

1:23:33

if crazy is your family script, then expect

1:23:35

crazy to be in the business, right? So

1:23:39

it doesn't go away. And so that's the problem with

1:23:41

it. And then

1:23:43

lastly, someday your dad's going to want

1:23:45

you to, you're going to want to take

1:23:47

this place over and he's going to want to step aside and

1:23:49

hand it off. You guys need to start talking about that sooner

1:23:52

rather than later. Your dad

1:23:55

founded this business? Yeah,

1:23:58

it's more complicated. kids and that in

1:24:01

a roundabout way, yes. Okay, all right. Well

1:24:03

the person that starts a business from the

1:24:05

ground up has the hardest time handing it

1:24:07

off. Yeah. Founders

1:24:09

have emotional trouble handing it off. I'm a

1:24:11

founder. Founders are hard,

1:24:13

we're stubborn. It's how we pull this

1:24:15

crap off because we would not be denied. And

1:24:18

then when it comes time to turn it over, it's

1:24:20

very difficult to do that. It's like putting your kid

1:24:23

out for adoption. And

1:24:25

it's really hard for founders emotionally to do

1:24:27

that. So I've had to really concentrate on

1:24:29

that and work hard at it. It's not

1:24:31

been an easy emotional journey for me to

1:24:34

turn this thing over. And my

1:24:36

son's not the president of Ramsey and I'm the CEO,

1:24:39

but he runs a lot more of the day to day of

1:24:41

this place than I do today. And

1:24:43

so, but that's

1:24:45

been a 12 year journey to

1:24:48

get to that point. It didn't just come out

1:24:50

of college and step into that. I can promise

1:24:52

you that. Let's talk more about your admission of

1:24:54

being stubborn and hardheaded. Let's go there for a

1:24:56

minute. I'm just kidding. Why? You

1:24:59

need some counseling hours or something? No,

1:25:01

hey, I wouldn't have,

1:25:04

if I was just a spectator watching you on

1:25:06

the stage say those things you just said, I

1:25:09

would think, yeah, but I've seen

1:25:11

it. And I'll tell you, the

1:25:13

first few times I was around you guys at the

1:25:15

lake house versus in the office, it's

1:25:19

almost like being on the boat all day

1:25:21

and getting onto land. And you have to take a minute

1:25:23

to settle in. Like, oh yeah.

1:25:26

We completely changed gears. It's a

1:25:29

totally different shift, right? And almost

1:25:32

not quite the same. There's still a level of respect

1:25:34

and distance, but there's a very

1:25:36

distinct friend Dave, like when we're all hanging out versus

1:25:38

when we're here at the office, we're here at the

1:25:40

office to tangle up. It should be, yeah. I

1:25:43

mean, who wants to hang out with a twerp on

1:25:45

a boat? Or who wants to go, yeah, with their

1:25:47

boss, who's still trying, yeah. He's waking a finger, yeah.

1:25:49

Yeah, it's, yeah. No, it's

1:25:52

pretty impressive to watch it be separate

1:25:54

like that. But it's an intentional Act.

1:25:56

It's a practice. It doesn't occur, and we've

1:25:58

studied it to learn how to do that

1:26:00

from A- the Google search. Great question Low.

1:26:02

thank you for joining us. You want to

1:26:04

hear more things like that? We do a

1:26:07

podcast every we called Entre Leadership Rods calls

1:26:09

from small businesses and you can check that

1:26:11

out. Swimmer Ramsey Network productions highly rated as

1:26:13

well. Here's.

1:26:17

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1:26:21

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1:26:24

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1:26:49

you for joining us America! Doctor John

1:26:51

Ramsey personality is my So host. We're

1:26:53

so glad you are here. A guy's

1:26:56

our tell you thank you! Last week

1:26:58

was the largest ratings week in the

1:27:00

history of the Ramsey Show and thirty

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but the number that the.the numbers

1:27:18

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1:27:20

out of town. So. It's a little bit

1:27:22

insulting. people gave it the best week ever

1:27:24

when I went on the air but stats

1:27:27

okay will still take that was the like

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the victory it's and ah very good. Thank

1:27:31

you guys and listen we can still use

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your help. I. We run in

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1:28:33

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1:28:36

sorry but the I don't have we're not

1:28:38

putting 300 million dollars into that marketing so

1:28:40

you guys are the ones that tell other

1:28:42

people that the Ramsey thing's helping me and

1:28:45

then that helps us thank you and it

1:28:47

helps us help other people thank you thank

1:28:50

you thank you our question of the day

1:28:52

comes from Kimberly in Oklahoma Kimberly writes my

1:28:54

fiance and I purchased a house together in

1:28:56

2022 we were both in

1:28:58

our 50s and had been homeowners in the past

1:29:01

our deed has the phrase right

1:29:03

of survivorship in it where if one of

1:29:05

us dies the property automatically goes to the

1:29:07

other well my fiance

1:29:10

passed away late last year and while

1:29:12

researching about selling the house I found

1:29:14

out he had filed a quit claim

1:29:16

back in October right before he had

1:29:18

surgery to remove a tumor the

1:29:21

quit claim deeds his half of the house

1:29:23

to his sons who are 23 and

1:29:25

26 neither one of

1:29:28

them has any interest in living in the house

1:29:31

or paying for it does

1:29:33

the quit claim supersede our deed wording

1:29:35

about the right of survivorship if

1:29:37

so how do I go about selling

1:29:39

my house if they have legally inherited

1:29:41

it should they be paying half the

1:29:44

mortgage HOA and taxes good

1:29:48

god a mess this

1:29:52

is why you do not buy a home with someone you're

1:29:54

not married to even if

1:29:56

they're your fiance ever

1:30:00

Ever this is why seen

1:30:02

this kind of wicked weird stuff for

1:30:04

30 years when people buy a house

1:30:06

that aren't married Well,

1:30:08

we love each other good get married then buy

1:30:10

a house Stop this

1:30:13

stupidity. Oh bless your heart

1:30:15

Kimberly. I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing to go

1:30:17

through And what a

1:30:19

weird type of betrayal So,

1:30:22

um, I don't know the answer

1:30:24

to your question in Oklahoma. You need to get a lawyer You

1:30:28

need to get a lawyer and find out

1:30:30

what title you hold if the survivorship supersedes

1:30:32

the quick claim beat I suspect it does

1:30:34

not I do too I think he just

1:30:37

gave up his half of the ownership to

1:30:39

his sons before he died So

1:30:41

there was no right of survivorship because he

1:30:44

didn't own anything when he died his

1:30:46

kid owned it His kids owned it. So

1:30:49

I think you are now partners with

1:30:51

your fiance's two kids And

1:30:54

so I would sit down with them and say how

1:30:57

are we gonna do this? We're 50

1:31:00

50 on this house. What do you how do

1:31:02

y'all want to handle it? My

1:31:04

best suggestion would be you sell it and

1:31:06

take your half and they

1:31:09

get their half Because I think

1:31:11

that's where you are. You can check an

1:31:13

attorney to be sure but I'm not 95% sure That's

1:31:15

the way it's gonna go down and hopefully

1:31:18

the two little duvers will cooperate And

1:31:21

you can just sell this thing fairly easily You're not gonna

1:31:23

have a problem if they won't cooperate

1:31:25

you're going to have to file a motion in

1:31:27

circuit court to dissolve a partnership and The

1:31:30

judge will force the sale of the house to dissolve

1:31:33

the partnership and that's gonna cost you 10 grand in

1:31:36

legal fees Maybe five but probably

1:31:38

yeah And so

1:31:40

this is what this betrayal has cost you.

1:31:42

This is unbelievable. It's unconscionable I

1:31:46

guess he had a brain tumor and it affected his

1:31:48

behavior and his judgment I'm trying to give the guy

1:31:50

a little credit not just be a complete scumbull since

1:31:52

he died but Who

1:31:56

knows now this was just a under the

1:31:58

table sideways

1:32:00

gummy thing Sideways deal that

1:32:02

left his fiancee high and dry. He didn't

1:32:05

have the courage to either tell her Hey,

1:32:08

I want to make sure I leave something to my boys

1:32:10

and he didn't have a curse to tell them What

1:32:13

was going on? Yeah, this is really really

1:32:15

can't wait to see hardly Yeah, so that leaves

1:32:18

you in a mess and here's the rule boys

1:32:20

and girls out there I know some

1:32:22

of you like to shack up and you don't want to be married

1:32:24

and you want to try on a shoe for You buy it and

1:32:26

all that crap that you say all the time. You can do whatever

1:32:28

you want to do It's not a moral

1:32:30

construct. It's a legal and financial construct Buying

1:32:33

a house with somebody you're not married to

1:32:35

is straight-up stupid Don't

1:32:38

do it So well, we've

1:32:40

been we've been dating for 42 years.

1:32:42

Well great painter get off the ladder

1:32:45

make a decision Man,

1:32:47

all right. Mike is with us Mike's in

1:32:49

Boise, Idaho. Hey Mike, what's up? Hi

1:32:52

guys. Thanks for taking my call I

1:32:55

have found myself in

1:32:57

baby step two as I am finishing

1:33:00

college I'm

1:33:02

getting ready to graduate and I'm planning on

1:33:04

moving out of state and I just

1:33:06

don't know How much

1:33:08

like what the what the process is for how

1:33:11

much I should have saved up before I move

1:33:14

Not remember your moving expenses in

1:33:16

your first month's rent or whatever is going to take to

1:33:18

get into an apartment. Yeah, where are you moving?

1:33:22

So I'm moving back to

1:33:24

California where I grew up with my brother

1:33:26

why he's told me you well,

1:33:29

it's just Family

1:33:31

kind of what about employment?

1:33:34

What about this idea? You just went to school to

1:33:36

get a job Yeah,

1:33:40

you should get one of those Yeah,

1:33:42

so I've applied to jobs back

1:33:44

in California. Do you have any?

1:33:48

Well, I still have like interviews coming up so nothing's for sure What

1:33:52

should agree in? I'm

1:33:55

finishing with the Masters of Arts and Teaching and a

1:33:57

bachelor's in social studies year

1:34:00

in May. So you're looking for a teaching gate?

1:34:03

Yeah. You'll get one of those. Yeah,

1:34:07

yeah I've applied to them

1:34:10

and they have such a high need I would kind of

1:34:12

be shocked if I didn't get one. Sure. You

1:34:16

can actually be pretty selective my guess and

1:34:18

find the districts that pay the most or

1:34:21

put you in the best situation. Yeah,

1:34:24

one of the hard parts for me is that I'm I'm

1:34:27

not gonna get paid for the month

1:34:29

of August. Yeah, that's tough. I remember that when

1:34:31

I was my first year teaching I had

1:34:33

to float until September. Well this is I mean

1:34:36

but this is this is March. Go

1:34:39

work. Yeah. I mean go Uber and

1:34:41

cut grass and walk people's dogs. I mean go crazy for

1:34:44

a short period of time get you some money dude. Yeah,

1:34:47

I started teaching driver's ed trying to...

1:34:49

That's a star. Hey, teaching driver's

1:34:53

ed you may die before you even have to take your

1:34:55

first job. Yeah, no kidding. The

1:35:00

hard thing is I wanted to put down

1:35:02

like five grand in a savings account to

1:35:04

move but that's all that I'll have left

1:35:06

on my student loans. No, you're gonna you need to make

1:35:08

the move first and get the job and you clear the

1:35:10

student loan in 20 minutes if you don't get my five

1:35:12

grand. Okay. You need to get

1:35:14

set. You got to get moved. You got to get moved. I mean

1:35:16

how you gonna move if you don't? Going

1:35:19

debt for that? You just traded one debt for the

1:35:21

other. Yeah, well my family's

1:35:23

been so good to me but I just I

1:35:26

don't know. Knock it out dude. Knock it out.

1:35:28

Go get five grand move get settled and pay

1:35:30

off five grand your first three checks. Yeah.

1:35:34

No partying allowed. You're a social studies teacher

1:35:36

now. You're not a college student. Hey and

1:35:38

by the way your first year teacher no

1:35:41

are you married or anything? No.

1:35:43

Alright good. So my first year of coaching

1:35:45

I took an extra sport and made a

1:35:48

little extra money. I drove the bus for

1:35:50

other events and for other like teams and made

1:35:52

extra money. I worked games like

1:35:55

B team basketball games for extra money. You'll

1:35:57

have an opportunity to nickel and dime your

1:35:59

way. to a lot of

1:36:01

additional cash your first couple

1:36:04

years of teaching if you just get on it

1:36:06

and hoof it and get to work. Yeah lots

1:36:08

of opportunities. Partying is in the rear

1:36:10

view mirror. It was at college. Right. Now

1:36:12

you're a man. Work, work, work, work. Time to

1:36:14

go to work. Clean up this dadgum mess. This

1:36:18

is the Ramsey Shadow. Folks

1:36:23

changing your family tree takes more

1:36:25

than rice and beans and side

1:36:27

hustles. It's also about transferring the

1:36:29

big financial risks off your family

1:36:31

by having the right kinds of

1:36:33

coverage in place. That's

1:36:35

why my team created the

1:36:37

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1:36:39

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1:36:41

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1:36:43

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1:36:45

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1:36:47

Make this quiz one of

1:36:49

your regular checkups starting right

1:36:51

now at ramsysolutions.com/ checkup. Dr.

1:36:54

Chondaloni, Ramsey personality is

1:36:56

my co-host

1:36:59

today. Open

1:37:04

phones are 888-855-225. Kayla

1:37:07

is in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Hi Kayla, welcome

1:37:10

to the Ramsey Show. Hello,

1:37:12

thank you so much for your time. Sure,

1:37:15

what's up? Yeah,

1:37:17

so my husband and I have been married for

1:37:19

15 years. Only

1:37:22

after that bought our first home. For

1:37:25

the first 13, he was a

1:37:28

chemical engineer and we were able

1:37:30

to pay off all but our

1:37:32

mortgage. Yay. Yes,

1:37:35

in the past two years,

1:37:38

we had the calling to enter

1:37:40

into pastoral ministry, which

1:37:44

in turn cut our income in half.

1:37:48

So we are commuting currently

1:37:50

to our church and so we

1:37:53

desire, I desire mostly to

1:37:57

be closer to that community and

1:37:59

be and minister to

1:38:01

that committee, be hands and feet

1:38:03

there. We

1:38:05

refinanced in 2020 which gave us

1:38:08

a 3% mortgage rate and

1:38:10

so our mortgage payment is

1:38:12

super low so it's kind

1:38:15

of... What do you owe on your hand? We

1:38:19

owe 77,000. What's it worth? We

1:38:24

haven't officially got it estimated

1:38:27

but Zillow is like 320. How

1:38:32

far away are you moving? It's

1:38:36

about 25 minutes from

1:38:39

our home. In

1:38:41

most areas of the country that's called going to work.

1:38:46

It's not really a commute. I would love a

1:38:48

25 minute commute. That'd be

1:38:50

amazing. You are in the community when you're

1:38:52

25 minutes away in most areas of the

1:38:54

country. If you want to move,

1:38:56

are there 320,000 homes in that neighborhood? There

1:39:02

are, yes. Taxes

1:39:04

are a little bit higher than what we're used to.

1:39:06

What's your husband making now? Together

1:39:10

because I also am working

1:39:13

with him side by side. We

1:39:15

make about 80,000 and that

1:39:18

doesn't include the housing allowance. In

1:39:21

the housing allowances, how much? We're

1:39:25

new to that too. After

1:39:28

taxes, it was 60,000. Does

1:39:31

that make sense? You

1:39:34

deduct your housing expenses from your taxes? The

1:39:36

80 includes the housing? Yes.

1:39:40

Housing is not taxable in a pastoral but

1:39:43

the rest of it is taxable. You've got 60

1:39:45

taxable, 20 not taxable. Your

1:39:47

total income including housing is 80? Correct.

1:39:51

Okay, I got you. What

1:39:53

prohibits you from buying a 320,000 dollar

1:39:55

house or a 300,000 dollar house in

1:39:58

that neighborhood? by

1:40:00

selling this house. Your payment is going

1:40:02

to go up some because you've got a tiny little

1:40:05

mortgage with a tiny little bump in interest rate, but

1:40:07

3% on 60 or $70,000

1:40:09

if you go from 3 to 6 is nothing. It's $1,800 a year. It's $100

1:40:15

a month. The

1:40:18

property taxes are double.

1:40:21

That's one thing that's... Okay, and so how much

1:40:23

is that? How much is that? So we

1:40:25

would go from $2,700 a year to a comparable

1:40:30

home to about $5,000. Whoopee.

1:40:34

Oh. You

1:40:37

can afford it. What's making you

1:40:39

so nervous? If you don't move up in house,

1:40:41

but the problem is you went and looked at

1:40:43

$500,000 houses, didn't you? Yeah.

1:40:46

Okay. Yeah, go

1:40:48

take a cold shower, honey. You got a house fever. You

1:40:51

need to lower your expectations back down to the level

1:40:53

where you were. You need to buy $250,000 to $300,000 home if

1:40:55

you want to live in that

1:40:59

neighborhood. If you don't want to live in that neighborhood and

1:41:01

commute and stay where you are, well, you're fine anyway. It's

1:41:05

25 minutes. It's not... I

1:41:08

mean, sometimes we shouldn't... In Nashville, we shouldn't

1:41:10

traffic 25 minutes just to do, but the...

1:41:13

I mean, do whatever you want to do. Look, can

1:41:15

I say this, Dave? It burns a hole

1:41:18

in my chest. If you feel called to

1:41:20

do a thing and

1:41:23

you feel called to leave job X to go

1:41:25

to job Y, that

1:41:29

often means your entire life is going

1:41:31

to change and you

1:41:33

may have to change

1:41:35

where you live, change the size of your

1:41:37

house or your... It's, I want to do this

1:41:39

thing that I feel called to do... With

1:41:41

no repercussion. With no life

1:41:44

change. Yeah, that doesn't happen. And that almost

1:41:46

never happens that way. Doesn't happen. It's

1:41:48

a total call. I want you to surrender this

1:41:50

big house, these cars, this whatever, for

1:41:53

this life, right? And that's a... that's hard. So

1:41:55

you may move from a $300,000 house to a

1:41:57

$200,000 house, which is paid for by the way.

1:42:00

paid for. You could do that and have a paid for

1:42:02

hash. And then you can

1:42:04

minister debt free, which means you can fully be

1:42:06

invested in your community. And that's a totally different

1:42:08

freedom and peace. But it's

1:42:10

a different mindset. Yeah, that's a

1:42:12

big deal. That's

1:42:15

an interesting point. And John, I mean,

1:42:18

you have done that a time or two and so have

1:42:20

I. After we

1:42:22

went broke, I went back to doing real estate.

1:42:24

And this was, you know, 1994, 1000 years ago, right?

1:42:31

After going broke, 94 was the year I got back

1:42:33

above $100,000 income. So I was making

1:42:36

100 made $120,000 that year in 1993, I'm sorry. And I had figured out I had a little bit

1:42:43

of speaking. I had this little $10

1:42:46

book I was starting to sell

1:42:48

called financial piece out of the trunk of my car.

1:42:51

And I was doing some one on one coaching. And

1:42:54

I was thinking about starting a class

1:42:57

that later became known as financial piece University.

1:43:00

And we figured it up and I did a pro forma on

1:43:02

it and I told Sharon I said, I think I

1:43:05

can go full time into

1:43:07

financial piece with books speaking class

1:43:11

radio wouldn't pay anything we were doing it but it didn't

1:43:13

pay us anything. And I think

1:43:15

I can do that. I think the first year will

1:43:17

make 60,000 our income will go in half. And

1:43:22

I think God's told me do that. But I'm not sure

1:43:24

what do you think? And she said, Well,

1:43:27

it doesn't sound like financial piece to

1:43:29

you just

1:43:31

bought bankruptcy three years ago that book.

1:43:35

She said, No, but we talked about it. We

1:43:37

prayed about it. We both really decided we thought

1:43:39

that was what God was saying to do felt

1:43:41

called. Okay, not 100% sure. I never know. I

1:43:44

always hesitate to say God told me. But

1:43:46

I felt right felt felt like what I supposed

1:43:49

to do, right? So we did quit

1:43:51

doing real estate went full on

1:43:53

financial piece in 1994 opened a little

1:43:56

baby office that was a month to month rent in case

1:43:58

it didn't work. We didn't have a long lease. And

1:44:01

first year, I made $61,000. I

1:44:04

hit it exactly, oddly enough.

1:44:07

But that cost $40,000 of sacrifice in the Ramsey home

1:44:10

from the year before, right? No, $60,000. Well,

1:44:14

our income went in half. Like she said, her income went in

1:44:16

half. It was the same thing. And

1:44:18

so, you know, that meant that we didn't

1:44:20

do squat again after recovering, after bankruptcy, starting

1:44:22

to heal and actually fix the heat and

1:44:24

air and that kind of stuff. And now

1:44:26

we don't have any money again. And

1:44:29

so, but the next year, you know, we

1:44:31

made $100,000 and it's never been back since,

1:44:34

of course. But this thing

1:44:36

has grown every year. But that was a

1:44:38

call that came with a sacrifice that came

1:44:40

with a call, which we're talking about. And

1:44:43

that one worked out. They don't always work out because

1:44:45

sometimes it's last night's pizza. It's not the Holy Spirit,

1:44:47

you know. And these people is like, well, God told

1:44:49

me. And then God told me something else. And then

1:44:51

God told me something else, right? But you have to

1:44:53

know that when you go with your gut, you follow

1:44:55

it or you get called whatever you want to say

1:44:58

it. It

1:45:00

always comes with a risk and it always comes with

1:45:02

an almost total change. And if you can clear the

1:45:04

deck, you can go from a four bedroom

1:45:06

house to a three bedroom house if you clear the deck. If

1:45:09

you look at it as a loss and I'm trying to keep it,

1:45:11

then you're going to drive yourself mad. The

1:45:13

other thing is none of this is permanent. Our

1:45:16

reduction to 60 was not permanent. You can pick up real estate

1:45:18

the next year. If you want to be in the neighborhood, sell