0:03

This is the recent interview with Nick

0:05

Gillespie. Thanks for listening. Today's

0:08

up so to sponsor by better help dot

0:10

com, the online therapy platform,

0:12

more about them midway through the show.

0:15

I am a especially excited about today's

0:17

episode, which is guest hosted by my recent

0:20

TV colleague, Zach Wisemiller. Zach

0:22

went to Philadelphia to talk with Marge

0:24

Terre. whose voice you heard at the very

0:26

start of this episode. Maj

0:28

runs the revolutionary center in North

0:30

Philadelphia. It's a place for low goals

0:33

to learn firearm skills and safety,

0:35

how to avoid and deescalate conflicts,

0:38

and also to pick up other life

0:40

skills ranging from first aid

0:42

to yoga to phlebotomy. Maj

0:45

is a Philly native. He's a hardcore libertarian

0:48

and founder of the gun right screwed

0:50

black guns matter. He's a

0:52

supporter, a vocal supporter of the

0:54

Meese's caucus that recently took control of

0:56

the libertarian party. He tells Zach

0:58

in reason that libertarians can

1:00

improve our outreach in urban America

1:02

by getting behind people like him

1:04

with deep connections to the

1:07

living in urban America, people

1:09

who have an intuitive understanding of

1:11

the needs and concerns of those communities.

1:14

Here is the reason interview with Marge

1:16

direct. So we're sitting here together

1:19

at the Solutionary Center in Philadelphia.

1:21

Tell me about what happens here. A little

1:23

bit of everything.

1:24

We you can't say you wanna

1:26

do community development and not have a

1:28

plan to develop

1:30

the community. And a lot of times, I get

1:32

it in this Internet age, We

1:35

do a lot of things remote. Can't

1:37

teach you how to sell remotely. I mean,

1:39

you probably could learn some stuff, but hands

1:41

on direction. You know, when you're talking about the

1:43

communities that impacted by all

1:46

of the silly shit that we see. You

1:49

gotta be hands on. Oh, it helps to be

1:51

more hands on. So to solutionize center, we

1:53

do conflict resolution, deescalation, firearms

1:55

training, Spanish phlebotomy. We've

1:58

got plumbing coming, you know.

1:59

Anything that You

2:02

know, we hear a lot of people say, if

2:05

your communities if these communities would

2:07

just pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Okay.

2:09

This is the bootstraps. You

2:11

know? And then the irony is after you start

2:13

doing stuff like this, I'm just waiting to get called,

2:15

like, a racist. I'm get I'm

2:17

I'm waiting to be called, like, oh, it's it's it's

2:20

not inclusive enough when I'm just doing

2:22

the stuff. But, well, you

2:24

know, hopefully, we'll get that popular to get hated

2:26

on that way. You know what I'm saying? But that's

2:29

what we do at the center, man. We we are

2:31

a location that if you

2:34

can teach something and you wanna teach a free

2:36

class, the space is available

2:38

to you. If you want to learn

2:40

something and you don't

2:42

know if we have the class there yet, you can, hey,

2:45

we're interested in this. Can you set up a class

2:47

for that? and everything's

2:49

free here. All of the money that we've raised

2:51

over how many years we've given it away.

2:54

Mhmm. And that's not just, you know, the solutionary

2:56

center, but also with Black Lives

2:58

Matter, we we wanna remove the financial

3:00

barrier entry. And if we can do this

3:03

effectively and efficiently in Philadelphia, there's

3:05

no reason that some of the rich you know,

3:07

folks that wanna watch this, can't say, hey, I

3:09

want you to do this in Chicago. I want you

3:11

to do this in Detroit. And

3:13

then we can franchise for

3:15

lack of a better term. our

3:17

our ability to solve problems to

3:19

be solutioning. If you had to boil

3:21

down, like, the mission statement of

3:23

the solutionary center, like, what are you trying to

3:25

accomplish? saved the Republic. Oh,

3:28

that's ambitious. Yeah. Yeah.

3:31

When you look at let's take the last two

3:33

years. Right?

3:34

I am a we are in a Democratic

3:36

city. The

3:38

Republican leadership here

3:41

does nothing.

3:43

the developers have done a job

3:45

at developing, you know, but they have their own

3:47

different interests.

3:50

When you look at the cities that are impacted

3:52

the most by the lack of liberty,

3:53

there's

3:56

no answers. and they

3:58

damn near leave the charge. They

4:00

damn there are the people saying,

4:02

this

4:03

is how we're gonna do it. We're gonna use

4:05

the heavy hand of the state

4:08

to

4:09

overreach into your individual liberties.

4:12

And

4:12

okay, if that if that actually turned

4:14

out, not okay. But if that actually turned out to be

4:16

better for cities, we would see it. It's not the

4:18

case. When

4:19

we started doing the work in Black Lives

4:21

Matter, we only did conflict resolution and

4:23

firearm safety in Philadelphia. that

4:26

year I think was twenty sixteen. When stats came

4:28

out, Philly had the lowest violent

4:30

crime it had since, like, nineteen seventy nine.

4:32

there's something to be

4:34

said there. But just firearms

4:36

ownership and conflict resolution is not

4:38

enough. What are the skill sets that we can give the

4:40

community, buy the community, afford a community,

4:43

to generate better economics for themselves,

4:45

to generate a better social interaction amongst

4:47

the people, to generate a a

4:49

reduction in crime. Right? And there's gonna be

4:51

spikes in everything. However, this

4:54

has to be the solution. Now why is that

4:56

tied into the overall mission of saving the

4:58

Republic? All of the big cities that have

5:00

these problems that the

5:02

politicians are horribly uninformed

5:05

about their actual job. They're

5:07

not presenting any solutions. We

5:09

cannot rely on the state to solve that.

5:10

We, literally, though people

5:13

have to do it. Individual donations,

5:15

collective work together, all while

5:17

respecting

5:19

the individual's rights.

5:21

When this becomes super

5:24

successful and in most of the major

5:26

cities, the people will choose differently. And

5:28

if the people are choosing differently and they're

5:30

informed about civics the process, if

5:33

they're politically active, not just

5:35

every two, four years, If

5:37

they're socially empowered and

5:39

politically astute,

5:41

we save the republic.

5:43

If

5:43

we do not, I

5:45

think people need to really recognize that

5:47

American cannot be here the way that

5:49

we're used to it being. And if

5:51

you're looking at the inflation, hyper

5:54

not even just hyperinflation, than their

5:56

stagflation. If you

5:57

look at these things now, we are not going

5:59

in

6:00

positive direction.

6:02

We're not. Now it's easy for me to

6:04

say, well, let's did politicians

6:06

fall. And on one level, gotta

6:08

take accountability for that. But what

6:10

about the people and their

6:12

accountability? Not just for

6:14

allowing

6:14

it to happen, But what are you gonna

6:16

do to apply a solution so this doesn't

6:18

happen anymore? Mhmm. So it's it is a

6:20

lofty goal, but it's

6:22

doable So you're

6:23

seeking you're helping people to

6:26

find practical solutions to

6:28

everyday problems in their lives.

6:30

or, you know, resolving conflicts. You

6:33

said conflict resolution is a big

6:35

part of this. Black guns

6:37

matter was the organization you

6:39

started back in twenty sixteen, and

6:41

so firearms training is

6:43

a big part of this. Wire firearms

6:46

training and conflict resolution kind

6:48

of fundamentals that you're building upon

6:50

here. Well, I can teach you

6:52

anybody how to shoot basically. Right?

6:54

That's

6:54

not the most difficult thing in the world.

6:57

But teach you or or even how to fight. Yeah.

6:59

But more importantly

7:02

teaching somebody why they're

7:04

fighting, which means why you should not

7:06

be fighting. If you are not fighting

7:08

to defend life, that's an imminent danger,

7:10

you're a life liberty or pursuit of happiness

7:12

and property. Right? You

7:14

probably shouldn't be fighting. And

7:16

generally, most of the reasons

7:18

why people are shooting each other in my city

7:20

have nothing to do with life liberty

7:22

pursuit of happiness and or property.

7:24

Eagle. Oh, you you stepped

7:26

on my yeasies. That's

7:29

stupid. That's nothing. Mhmm. So

7:32

as a firearms owner, I always gotta

7:34

be the adult. all

7:35

the time. I got a cannon on me everywhere

7:37

I go. Everywhere.

7:39

So

7:41

those rounds don't go back in the barrel.

7:44

And if you're making this decision to

7:46

do something of that nature, it

7:48

needs to be a slam dunk that you can justify

7:50

why I did it to protect life. If

7:53

not, me and my community are

7:55

gonna advocate that you have your day in

7:57

court, you have a trial by a jury of your

7:59

peers, and we want you to go to jail.

8:01

That is a repetitive line that I

8:03

use consistently, we want you to go

8:05

to jail for violating someone's

8:08

highest property, their body,

8:10

creating an actual crime.

8:13

So you can't ask

8:15

someone to do a thing and not provide

8:17

the space or the resources for them

8:19

to practice it. So if I wanna

8:21

lower the violent crime in my city,

8:23

let's say about twenty five percent, I have

8:25

to create this space and the

8:27

resources for them to come learn how to do

8:29

it. And some of the younger guys, I

8:31

have to create the space for them to even know

8:34

that that's not even a viable option

8:36

before they gotta reverse anything. Let's

8:38

raise them the proper way. So

8:41

you can't have really one without the other. And

8:43

then that firearms conversation and

8:45

conflict resolution will

8:47

lead you into so many other areas.

8:49

Because again, it cannot just be

8:51

firearms. Conflict resolution is

8:53

a key but the firearm is in

8:55

protection of these immediate

8:57

threats to life. How are you able

8:59

to build on your life? The firearm

9:01

is how we protect the equity that we've

9:03

built up. But if this person doesn't even

9:05

feel like they've built anything of value in

9:07

their life because they have no competency, they

9:09

have no skill sets, societies telling

9:11

them that they all they can do is sell

9:13

drugs, play basketball

9:15

or whatever, be a

9:17

rock star. That's not the

9:19

case, you know.

9:20

So we gotta

9:22

live and lead by example. And

9:24

starting from firearms ownership and

9:26

conflict resolution, it takes us into all

9:28

of the other areas of human Could you

9:30

give me a sense of what

9:33

skills you're imparting here? You know, when

9:35

it comes to something like conflict resolution,

9:37

what are some practical with

9:39

some practical advice that you

9:42

typically dispense to people of how to

9:44

deescalate a situation instead of

9:46

making it worse. So two

9:48

things, we work with a lot of guys that I've

9:50

I've known King Erner. He's a huge on

9:52

YouTube. Dude's done a

9:54

lot of state and Fed time, you know.

9:56

First

9:56

of all, that guy's been in. Mhmm.

9:58

He knows that you probably are

10:00

not built for that. So we work with a

10:02

lot of those guys that are now working with younger

10:05

groups of men. But when

10:07

we do those types of classes and we say to

10:09

a young person, hey, come

10:11

right here. I want you to give me your

10:13

phone. you're gonna go in the bathroom for

10:16

twenty minutes. There's no

10:18

phone. There's no book. There's just you in the bathroom. If

10:20

you can take a nap, you can do push

10:22

ups, if

10:23

there's some food in there, you can eat it, you can use the bathroom if

10:25

you want to, you can drink water, you can have

10:27

whatever you want, other than

10:29

outside

10:29

contact,

10:31

and distractions while

10:33

you're in that bathroom for twenty minutes.

10:37

They come out and they feel as if

10:39

I'm talking

10:39

about thirteen, fourteen year olds.

10:42

Yo, this was the longest twenty minutes I've

10:44

ever had in my life. Right?

10:46

Snow,

10:46

it's just you dealing with you.

10:48

Then when

10:48

we say to that young person is literally an

10:51

example that we use. If

10:53

you kill somebody in the state of Pennsylvania,

10:56

Pennsylvania has historically the

10:58

largest amount of

11:00

juvenile lifers.

11:02

If you

11:03

are in a hold for

11:05

twenty three hours of a

11:07

day and come out four hours of a little bit

11:09

of wreck and exercise, you were

11:11

in there for twenty minutes.

11:14

Can you handle twenty three

11:17

hours of

11:18

that for

11:19

the rest of your life or a sizable portion

11:22

of it? You have to package the

11:24

to the young people the opposite of

11:26

what leftist media narratives

11:28

are telling them. And I don't I hate using these

11:30

leftist right terms, but I have to

11:32

create a distinction. Right?

11:33

Media

11:35

will have them believe in television or

11:37

video games that You just shoot

11:39

the person and you might get shot, you

11:41

might die, but or

11:43

the reality which is you may get

11:45

caught. And as a Pennsylvania

11:48

resident where we have the most juvenile

11:50

lifers, you may go to jail for the rest

11:52

of your life. Yeah. That's the other side of

11:54

the game.

11:55

So it seems like you are trying

11:57

to give young people

11:59

this

11:59

view this picture of the reality

12:02

in Philadelphia, you know,

12:04

whether you disagree or

12:06

agree with the way the criminal justice

12:08

system is. Mhmm. this is the reality.

12:10

You have to be aware of that

12:12

and be ready to face

12:14

that and and think about the future

12:16

here. you mentioned the high

12:18

youth incarceration rate here in

12:20

Philadelphia. The city has a

12:22

relatively high overall incarceration

12:24

rate compared to lots big

12:26

cities in America. And

12:28

partly because of that, there's now

12:30

this what would have

12:32

become known as progressive prosecutors.

12:35

Mhmm. Larry Krezner is the

12:37

DA here. Yep. He's facing impeachments

12:39

as, like, the crime rates

12:41

have gone up in recent years, the

12:43

violent crime and property

12:45

crime. What has your reaction

12:47

been to Larry Krezner's

12:50

attempts to reform the criminal

12:52

justice system here and Yeah. We haven't done no

12:54

attempts. Oh, here's I'll start with

12:56

first, I'll

12:57

go back. I'll

12:58

share with young people the

13:01

reality if they stay on

13:03

that path. Okay. That's not their

13:05

general reality though. I don't

13:07

wanna be in

13:07

Absolutes. Mhmm. Right? The

13:10

general

13:10

reality is Philadelphia is a beautiful

13:12

city that has a lot of history,

13:14

a lot of information And if you

13:16

start tapping into the information of the stories, they

13:18

can be very motivating for you. So

13:20

we give them both sides. We we try

13:22

to make sure that we're communicating the

13:25

full picture. Right? As opposed to just going, hey,

13:27

you as a young a youth you're

13:29

definitely going to jail. Words

13:31

are incantations. Yeah. It's not

13:33

just a scared straight program.

13:35

Yeah. This is this is magic. Yeah. We

13:37

are casting

13:38

spells. Yeah. We are spelling.

13:41

Yeah. Right?

13:41

So

13:42

I wanna make sure that I add that there.

13:44

In

13:45

regards to these progressive

13:47

regressive

13:49

spelling,

13:50

words and plantations. They are not progressive.

13:53

There's no progress being

13:55

made. You

13:56

know?

13:57

Etymology is important.

13:58

The

13:59

regressive

13:59

agenda

14:01

does not do anything but what

14:04

its

14:04

actual definition is.

14:07

Regress. Mhmm. So

14:09

when you say as, you know,

14:10

I'll

14:11

say what I agree with with Larry

14:14

Krasner -- Okay. -- because I wanna maintain

14:16

objectivity.

14:16

Okay.

14:18

Bail is Ransom.

14:20

Bail

14:21

is Ransom.

14:22

He's done cash bill reform. He's done cash

14:24

bill reform. I a fan of

14:26

If I

14:27

have not been proven,

14:30

responsible for a violent act,

14:32

proven, I shouldn't

14:34

have to pay a ransom to get

14:36

out. I have not been proven

14:38

to do

14:39

anything wrong. I've been accused

14:41

I

14:42

get to have my day in court. Mhmm.

14:44

Right? So I'm not

14:46

opposed on certain areas. That

14:48

makes

14:48

sense. I remember a good friend of mine.

14:51

said that to me in one of my classes. He was like,

14:53

oh, well, bail is, you know, just

14:55

just just ransom. And I'm

14:57

like, you know what? It is, ransom. As

14:58

a libertarian,

15:00

I

15:01

get, you know, standing in front

15:03

of my accused and having my,

15:05

you know, fair due process and all that

15:07

other good stuff. but we gotta be honest that

15:09

bail is

15:11

Branson. So I

15:12

agree with that concept. Maybe

15:15

not for homicides because if

15:17

you did the homicide, you wanna run. But the reality is

15:19

if you don't show up for court, we

15:22

they

15:22

come get you and you Okay. Now we won't

15:24

let you out. Mhmm. So

15:26

there's some overlap there.

15:29

Just like I'll have overlap with

15:31

some conservative values or

15:33

whatever. My point is, It's not

15:35

all I hate this person completely.

15:37

Now when we're talking about policies

15:39

like,

15:40

this person has been charged with

15:42

a violent actual crime of

15:44

shooting someone. Mhmm. And

15:46

you're letting the lawyers

15:49

plead down and we're gonna drop the

15:51

gun charge. And then you say guns

15:53

are the problem. Well, if it's

15:54

only a certain small amount, Philly's

15:57

the fifth or sixth largest city in

15:59

America. It's not a hundred

16:01

thousand guys doing these violent crimes. It's a

16:03

small number comparatively to the

16:05

overall population. Mhmm. But if you keep

16:07

letting these guys out because they got a

16:09

fancy lawyer, to the point where they're not even

16:11

gonna face the gun

16:13

charge, but then you'd make

16:15

the average safe and

16:17

responsible firearm owning

16:19

citizen Now I get more

16:21

restrictions added to that because you didn't

16:23

make it very difficult for

16:25

someone to shoot a citizen in America and

16:27

get back on the streets. You are

16:29

a contradiction. I was

16:31

at

16:31

a town hall meeting a few years ago.

16:33

Larry

16:34

Krasner told me himself.

16:36

at

16:36

his own mouth. He won't remember it.

16:38

My good brother Gabriel O'Brien

16:41

was a part of that

16:42

town hall. And I

16:44

asked them, I said, this was years ago, I said,

16:47

we're doing work with conflict resolution, so

16:49

forth and so on. Is there any way that the

16:51

city and, you know, the DA's office could work

16:53

with Black Lives Matter. He said, and I'm a

16:55

paraphrase, I don't think education

16:58

or People with guns are the

17:00

problem. I think guns are the problem.

17:02

Mhmm. So this tells me that you have a closed

17:04

minded approach and it's a contradiction. You're saying

17:06

guns are the problem. But

17:08

the bad person that is charged

17:11

with doing

17:11

the violent crime, actual

17:14

crime, not like he had

17:16

some weed. Right?

17:16

Yeah. This person is

17:18

charged with an actual violent crime.

17:20

You're gonna

17:21

allow that to be plead down or your office

17:23

is gonna allow that to be plead down and then

17:25

you wanna add more restrictions, it is a walking contradiction.

17:28

No Philadelphia that's aware of that

17:30

holistic approach or a non holistic

17:32

approach that these guys are doing

17:34

is gonna say that's gonna help.

17:36

I get it though. Again, we have failed

17:39

in

17:39

then allowing the

17:40

citizens to be educated

17:43

fully about this overall

17:45

process. We miss an information. And if we have

17:47

short term memory and we are a low information

17:49

voter, we don't see the game that they're

17:51

playing because those same citizens will

17:53

show up This there's mayor,

17:55

Kenny. Now they're executive

17:57

orders. It got pushed back by on a higher

17:59

level, but you're gonna say, oh, no,

18:01

even at recreation centers and gyms. And then a

18:03

DA says even guys what

18:05

licenses are gonna have a problem with me. This

18:07

is a threat. Who the fuck do you think

18:09

you're talking to? We

18:11

are the Philadelphia citizens.

18:14

You, Larry Krasner, mayor

18:16

Kenny, Do not tell us what to do. You

18:18

don't have a voice as a public

18:20

servant. You're there to speak what our

18:22

voices is and the people are

18:24

speaking. That's why you're seeing vast increases

18:27

in safe and responsible firearms

18:29

owner in Philadelphia. Their

18:31

contradiction is ex is is exposed.

18:33

And we're gonna continue to expose

18:35

that contradiction until they change their

18:37

perspective on trying to alienate our

18:39

human right to defend self. But so

18:41

the the data shows that Krasner

18:44

has been prosecuting far

18:47

fewer firearms charges

18:49

than past DAs have. And

18:51

at same time, violent crime has gone

18:54

up. Wouldn't

18:56

you agree with the notion that

18:58

just

18:58

somebody carrying a firearm

19:01

shouldn't be prosecuted. So, I mean,

19:03

aren't you kind of on the same

19:05

page about just carrying

19:07

a firearm should not be

19:09

I'm not on the offense. That's a great

19:12

context. I'm not opposed to you

19:13

not

19:14

charging

19:16

It's not a crime. Yeah. me

19:18

carrying a knife, a

19:20

rambo knife. It's not a crime. Right? If

19:22

I do the wrong thing with that

19:24

rambo knife, it's a crime. Mhmm.

19:27

insert ramble knife. Right? because that sounds

19:29

scary. Insert ramble knife, but butter knife.

19:31

Mhmm. It's not a

19:31

crime. Right? So I'm

19:33

agreeing on in the fur full of context.

19:35

I'm not talking about just carry.

19:37

It shouldn't be a that should not be a charge

19:39

in the first place. But a lot of it is, you know,

19:41

people violating their probation

19:44

or their convicted felons and they're carrying

19:46

-- Yeah. -- and that is the crime. Like, should that None of those

19:48

things should be crimes. Okay. Article one,

19:50

section twenty one of the Philadelphia

19:53

excuse me, the Pennsylvania constitution says the right

19:55

of the people to keep in bare arms shall not be

19:57

questioned. Mhmm. Question.

19:59

Don't ask me a

19:59

question about me carrying a firearm. you're

20:02

objecting to is somebody commits a

20:04

violent crime and they have a firearm on

20:06

it. Maybe they didn't use the firearm and

20:08

keeps dropping. I'm saying, If

20:10

you're using that firearm -- Yeah. -- to

20:13

violently charge someone,

20:15

charge them for I used

20:17

a firearm to Rob rape or kill. Right. Even if

20:19

they didn't fire it, they used it. If you're

20:21

using if you're harming, crime has

20:23

to create a victim. Mhmm.

20:25

if bro,

20:28

it's on you. You you gonna do dirt,

20:30

and you got this situation going on. But

20:32

what I what I don't want to happen is

20:34

I don't want it to be conflated that I'm saying,

20:37

you should be charging these guys just for

20:39

carrying a gun. No. It's not

20:41

literally. The supreme law of the

20:43

land is the second amendment. It doesn't say with

20:45

an asterisk unless this

20:47

guy went to jail before he came home and did

20:49

his time, then he has the right to keep him bare ons.

20:51

It's not what it says. Mhmm. So

20:53

I'm not advocating for you should be charging

20:55

guys for just cat for possession of a

20:57

firearm. No, not at all. I

21:00

would say give those

21:02

guys our information. Let's come

21:04

train those guys so they can be warriors to

21:06

protect their community. And so

21:08

you

21:08

feel that the Chrysler

21:11

has made these reforms from the

21:13

DA's office, which are

21:15

about kind of the

21:17

over

21:17

sentencing problem that

21:20

might exist in some cases. Mhmm.

21:22

But he hasn't seriously tackled

21:24

the kind of, you know, that

21:26

they talk about systemic problems, but

21:28

they're not really willing to address

21:30

it and talk to people about, you know,

21:33

taking responsibility and getting

21:35

their lives together. And that's where you're coming

21:37

in. This systemic because I'm

21:39

not a because I'm not a fan of too much

21:41

social work. Too much. Okay.

21:43

But the

21:43

systemic issue is the most systemically

21:46

racist thing in America for black people

21:48

is gunkage. role. That's

21:50

older

21:50

than America. Right? You

21:52

know? So talk about that a little

21:54

bit more for you. Why not? No. if you

21:56

don't know, gun control was the concept was literally

21:59

started. Hey, we don't want those blacks,

22:01

niggas. We

22:01

don't want those

22:03

people to have the

22:05

means to defend themselves. Mhmm. Don't

22:07

let them have it. Right? So

22:09

anything

22:09

offshoot of that, the possession, the

22:13

this, is

22:13

in contradiction to the

22:16

supreme law of the land -- Yeah. -- as we

22:18

just saw in New York

22:20

State overturning those oh, you can't

22:22

carry a gun on you. That literally had

22:24

rates root roots in the racist practice

22:26

of gun control. Mhmm. So I'm not,

22:28

again, I'm not advocating for

22:30

craznor or any of these guys to say,

22:32

hey, you should be charging those guys just for

22:34

having a gun. No. I'm saying there's

22:36

a line. The line is

22:38

You use a firearm to shoot someone. We

22:40

got it on camera. We have to prove that

22:42

it's you less charge. Right? I'm here

22:44

all day for that. Yep. But you're

22:46

going around, running around, oh, he he had a

22:49

gun on, I don't care. I don't care. Listen

22:51

to me. Wear

22:52

any

22:53

citizen. of any

22:55

background loses me

22:57

is

22:58

you use

22:59

this tool

23:01

to create an actual

23:03

victim. Mhmm. If

23:04

you use this tool to create a

23:07

victim and that potential victim

23:09

defends themselves, I'm gonna high five the

23:11

potential victim. Yeah. This is not rocket

23:13

science. So is this the divide you

23:15

think between because both Libertarians

23:17

and progressives have been on

23:19

the side of criminal justice

23:22

reform broadly, and I include you

23:24

in that. I know you've said things in favor of

23:26

criminal justice reform, but is

23:28

it a difference in what we view

23:31

as crimes legitimate crime. Yeah.

23:33

And that's the thing. You

23:35

know, when

23:37

people have, like,

23:40

overeating. Right? Or let's say if they

23:42

are addicted to cigarettes -- Mhmm. -- they

23:44

get off of cigarettes, and

23:45

then they gain

23:46

a bunch

23:47

of weight. because

23:48

the issue wasn't the cigarette. That's a

23:50

surface issue. Mhmm. The

23:52

issue was addiction. So

23:54

they just start overeating because they have an addictive personality because

23:56

they haven't tackled the root cause. If

23:59

you haven't tackled

23:59

the root cause, all of this stuff is surface

24:02

level thing. It it it almost is

24:04

like a cup in the ocean, a cup of water in

24:06

the ocean. Yeah. We are

24:08

not If I ran for mayor of

24:11

Philadelphia, it would be very

24:12

clear. We,

24:14

and my law

24:15

enforcement gang,

24:18

are going to

24:18

chase robbers rapists,

24:22

unjustified killers. We

24:25

don't want you to sign up for the

24:27

police department because you we want you to write

24:29

tickets for tint

24:31

on your windows. And thank god, they took that off

24:33

like a year or two ago. Right? because that was the

24:35

thing. That was just revenue generation

24:37

for the state. Mhmm. But we want you to sign

24:39

up because we want you to actually catch bad

24:41

guys. Mhmm. Okay? So if you

24:43

got the job because you just wanted to look cool in

24:45

a uniform, not workout, not be on

24:48

point. We're not sending you to do social

24:50

work. Mhmm. We wanna

24:52

tackle actual crime. We

24:54

wanna we don't wanna tackle you because

24:56

you this person wanted to

24:58

buy weed and this person

25:00

had the weed. We don't wanna send that person to

25:02

jail because they're selling Lucy or

25:05

even worse, choke them to death on the street

25:07

because they're selling Lucy cigarettes.

25:09

Right. Right? That's not crime.

25:11

Yeah. So the surface thing

25:13

of oh, we gotta we're

25:16

not gonna charge the guy's criminal justice

25:18

reform because they had their gun on Mhmm.

25:20

That that's great. But that wasn't crime

25:22

to begin with. Based on the actual

25:25

supreme law of the land being the second

25:27

amendment of these United States of American Nebula writes

25:29

the constitution. That wasn't crime in

25:31

the beginning. So you're telling me you're doing

25:33

black people as solid because we're not gonna

25:35

prosecute you for that. It's not

25:37

a crime in the first place. That's on the

25:39

federal level. And then again, when we go back

25:41

to Pennsylvania, article one, section

25:43

twenty one, no question about me

25:45

and carrying a firearm. The

25:47

only way that that is seemingly legitimate

25:49

to you is if you're in alignment with

25:51

the racist practice of gun control. Mhmm.

25:53

So when you just go, oh, We're

25:55

just not gonna same thing on the so called

25:57

right side. He's not prosecuting those guys

25:59

for

25:59

having the gun. Oh, I thought the second

26:02

amendment was clear.

26:04

Liberty?

26:04

Mhmm. Republican? Mhmm.

26:06

See, the beauty of our situation

26:08

in people like me, I swear to hood rock

26:10

what what we I'm not

26:13

attached to any of these things, and I'm the

26:15

person that you guys would rather prosecute

26:18

for

26:18

nonviolent, you know, me just having a

26:21

I'm also the person that you guys

26:23

would highlight for solving these problems.

26:26

So I exist in the middle of a Venn

26:28

diagram because that's what the actual

26:30

solutions are. not just just this one

26:32

against that type of thing, but the

26:34

problem is these guys don't go

26:36

deep enough. And the reason why they don't go deep enough

26:38

is because of the lack of information, meaning

26:41

the public service, the lack of

26:43

information. They are not very smart

26:45

people, as well as even if

26:47

they are smart and have informed

26:49

themselves, they're just gonna placate to their

26:51

base. And that again, we're going back to the original

26:53

problem, which is that type of placating

26:55

to your base right or left is

26:57

in essence what's destroying our constitutional

27:00

republic. So if they were to dig

27:02

deeper about what's going on here in

27:04

Philadelphia right now, what do you think

27:06

they would find in terms of

27:08

why is this happening? Why

27:10

is there a murder spike in

27:12

the city? And that's going

27:14

against the trend. you know, there there

27:16

were crime spikes

27:18

during the pandemic in the other big cities,

27:20

but those have kind

27:22

of cited in a a lot of the other big cities, but in

27:24

Philadelphia, still going up. What do

27:26

you think is going on? They're

27:28

not getting

27:28

what black guns matter. They're not coming to the

27:31

solution I They're not putting the resources where

27:33

it needs to go. You're

27:34

not you're not actively trying

27:37

Listen, I have friends

27:38

on a city

27:40

council. Sorry, guys. You're not

27:42

actively trying to do something. You're

27:44

saying the emotional response

27:46

and taking advantage of the trauma

27:48

of the voters that have been impacted

27:50

by these, you know, seven hundred and over and

27:53

over twenty seven hundred and twenty shootings

27:55

over the summer this summer -- Yeah. -- in Philly,

27:57

you're taking advantage of their trauma

27:59

And you're saying these

27:59

things, why has

28:02

no

28:02

city council person been here?

28:04

Mhmm. Why has again,

28:07

craziness told me, Oh,

28:09

the gun is the problem, not the people. So

28:11

when Krezner says that or other

28:13

gun control advocates say that, their

28:16

logic there is like, If

28:18

you give people more people more

28:21

guns, it's just asking for problems because

28:23

there's more likelihood that

28:25

if some sort of confrontation or conflict

28:28

occurs, someone's gonna have a gun and that's

28:30

gonna just the inevitable

28:32

result is more guns more

28:34

gun crime. So three things there.

28:36

First,

28:38

imagine the level of entitlement

28:41

that

28:41

an American public servant

28:45

has to

28:45

think that they get to decide who

28:47

has a firearm.

28:50

in

28:50

America. The level

28:52

of entitlement of, if

28:54

we allow you, fuck

28:57

you, This place was built,

28:59

I live in Philadelphia.

29:01

I live in Rebel City. I

29:03

live in the birthplace of

29:06

America. This entire place was founded upon,

29:08

and I'm the black dude saying this.

29:10

And clearly, the founders had a

29:12

contradictions with liberty and enslaving

29:14

people. I can say it, everybody

29:16

else can say it. We are in

29:18

the place that said, we

29:21

will fucking shoot you

29:24

if you violate our

29:26

independent right to life liberty to pursuit

29:28

of happiness and property.

29:29

Now imagine that, a public servant

29:32

in Philadelphia.

29:33

saying, if we

29:35

allow you to have a firearm, it's only

29:37

gonna turn that's

29:38

almost like saying you

29:40

blacks. because

29:40

Philadelphia is seventy percent black and brown. Mhmm.

29:42

You blacks have a genetic predisposition

29:45

to kill each other.

29:47

Mhmm. That's 12I

29:49

wouldn't even

29:51

be along with that goofy ride

29:53

if the other data

29:55

didn't exist, where all of the other

29:57

areas that have respect for the second

29:59

amendment

29:59

the and

30:00

firearms ownership is has exploded. We're in

30:02

the thirty eighth year excuse me.

30:04

Thirty eighth month in a row

30:06

for

30:06

years now. that over a

30:09

million firearms have been purchased in

30:11

America. So all of these

30:13

other places that firearms

30:15

ownership is spiking For

30:17

some reason, those places don't have the same

30:19

levels of violent crime. That's the RS to

30:21

Chicago are going to get into guns from Indiana.

30:23

Waha, Indiana doesn't have the

30:25

same violent crime. there is a culture difference in

30:27

these different spaces. Mhmm. Third

30:30

thing.

30:30

thing

30:31

It's

30:34

not the

30:34

state's responsibility and they are not

30:36

the authority.

30:37

They are only

30:39

there to

30:41

fight to secure our individual

30:44

rights. That

30:44

is it. Mhmm.

30:45

So however, hocus

30:47

pocus and spelling

30:50

and incantation, their spells

30:52

are not strong enough to work on

30:54

me.

30:54

That's not the foundation of this

30:57

place. It's not in alignment with my individual liberty.

30:59

And it's clear

31:01

the government does not grant

31:03

or take away these things

31:05

in the villa. Right? See what they fucked up. Yeah. They

31:08

let people like me get high when

31:10

I was in high school and go study all of

31:12

that stuff. when

31:14

I would be down at city hall --

31:16

Yeah. -- when I would go look

31:18

at Benjamin Franklin who got

31:20

high. Mhmm. I

31:22

believe it. Legit, these dudes had hemp

31:24

farms. Yep. So the problem is

31:26

just hemp. It wasn't just hemp. It

31:28

was a lot of shit. Right.

31:30

The problem is now, people like

31:33

me, I'm American as fuck. You

31:35

know? You made me this way.

31:37

And now, I can translate this to

31:40

people Philadelphia was rebel city. Mhmm. Fuck

31:42

you, bro. William Penn

31:45

said we don't have to create so much

31:47

violence with the Lenape people, the

31:49

Indigenous people. We'll work with

31:51

them. Philadelphia was supposed

31:53

supposed to be a

31:55

beacon, a shining light of

31:57

liberty. So it's hard for me

31:58

to move from here. Mhmm. You

31:59

know, these public servants have

32:02

forgotten their position and did not

32:04

fit serve. And now, you have people

32:06

like me that say, let's work

32:08

together. But if you continue to

32:10

ignore us, neglect is

32:13

my ally. You continually ignore

32:15

us. We will fucking come back as conquer

32:17

us. So

32:17

you mentioned this data of firearm

32:21

sales going up across the

32:23

nation. And a lot of that has been

32:25

among first time buyers and a lot

32:27

of that has been among black

32:30

people. So as the founder

32:32

of Black Guns Matter,

32:35

how do you account for that? What do you think

32:37

is driving this

32:39

new post demographic.

32:42

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Not just

32:44

me.

32:44

Yeah. I'm just a regular high school dropout.

32:47

Okay. Us.

32:47

the The tweets

32:49

exist. I've said this in twenty fifteen.

32:51

We are going to make the black

32:53

community be the largest gun buying demographic

32:55

in America. Set it.

32:57

We did it with less than half

32:59

a million dollars. We gave it away, and I

33:01

wanna be clear, because I know I say start

33:03

saying these numbers and people think, like, I got

33:05

a half a million sitting in my back pocket. We gave the

33:08

money away. We gave

33:09

it away. We gave it away.

33:13

gave it away. We gave it to the

33:15

people. We gave it

33:16

away. And they used

33:17

that to buy firearms. They used

33:21

it they used it used

33:23

it to shift culture. Yeah.

33:25

We used

33:26

it to go to all these different places to say,

33:28

Abraham, you noticed that you're right too.

33:30

In twenty sixteen, twenty

33:32

seventeen, I was in Miami at two cities

33:34

a week. Look at

33:36

the spike. These are things

33:38

that manifestation,

33:38

spelling. And what do you

33:40

hope will be the ultimate outcome?

33:42

What will be the benefit of that

33:45

to the black community who

33:47

you are targeting with

33:49

this organization in black guns matter.

33:51

We're gonna save America. Mhmm.

33:53

black people always save America.

33:55

I know and that's just what it is. Black

33:58

people all look, the indigenous people,

33:59

black way back in the day -- Mhmm. -- fun

34:02

fact.

34:02

Negro,

34:03

was a distinction that was made

34:06

for indigenous people and black

34:08

Americans, just everybody can look

34:10

it up. When

34:12

the

34:12

colonizers and I don't say that

34:14

in a rule way, colonizers, the script

34:16

Yes. The script. Yes. The script.

34:19

when they came here during the starving times

34:21

and the indigenous people when they was, like, digging

34:23

up, like, their own dead horses and family

34:25

members and eating them -- Mhmm. and the

34:27

indigenous people was like, look at these crazy

34:30

motherfuckers. Come on, man. We'll help you out.

34:32

Yeah. We, indigenous people,

34:34

saved America. When you

34:36

wanna fast forward to

34:38

any war that America has participated

34:40

in,

34:41

the war, the civil

34:43

war, for this war, Vietnam. Black people

34:47

was

34:48

there? Black people are gonna

34:49

save America from Joe Biden.

34:51

You think so?

34:53

Okay. We got tricked overall.

34:55

Outside of the fact that there was

34:57

some irregularities with this vote and shit. I'll say

34:59

it

34:59

that way. Right? However,

35:02

even if

35:04

you just hook

35:05

line and sinker both the media

35:07

narrative there, Trump's the

35:09

racist dude. Like, whatever. Right?

35:12

Cool. You believe that. And you

35:14

voted for Joe Biden. Eighty one

35:16

million,

35:16

more than obama more than Obama. Maybe, you

35:19

never know. Nonetheless. And

35:20

none of them

35:22

The only only white

35:25

regressives and so called Liberals

35:28

are still

35:29

championing Jill. He's weekend at

35:32

Bernie's

35:32

bro.

35:34

So black people

35:36

is like, yo,

35:40

we might need Donnie back in

35:42

there. I'm I'm here in

35:44

the hood. No. I'm not saying as an advocate for

35:46

Donnie and all of that. I'm just saying I'm I'm

35:48

paying I'm The streets are talking.

35:50

Yeah. So so black

35:53

people are gonna be heard and say,

35:55

that ain't it, bro. We thought

35:57

she was, look at it. What is

35:59

he

35:59

given black

36:00

what does he given rifle

36:02

folk? What is he and I'm I'm not saying this to

36:04

disparage any other ethnic group in

36:06

America. We are salad. We are in a

36:08

melting pot. We are salad.

36:09

We got some croutines. We got

36:11

some tomatoes. Mhmm. That's America.

36:13

Right?

36:14

But what have

36:15

you done for

36:17

the tomatoes?

36:18

Nothing. You cut

36:19

HBCU funding after lying about

36:22

what you were gonna give

36:24

them. You literally re upped

36:26

on the most racist practice in

36:28

America, gun can control. Mhmm.

36:30

As the black people started buying more

36:32

guns than

36:33

ever, you

36:36

said we're gonna send you to jail for

36:38

ten years Fortunately, the Supreme Court was like, what? You are

36:40

bugging. Mhmm. Right? You're

36:42

still

36:43

continuing this. You

36:45

speak to black people as

36:47

if you literally own them, if

36:49

you don't vote for

36:51

me, you weigh black. What type

36:53

of fucking It's

36:53

amazing. Yeah. It's the level of

36:56

entitlement and audacity. Mind

36:58

you. Mind you.

36:58

You're the same guy

37:01

that crafted the criminal

37:03

legislation, criminal to send many of these

37:05

black men

37:05

to jail in the first place. Drug

37:08

War three sixty

37:08

four. That was you, bro?

37:12

Black people are gonna have to

37:13

save America from

37:15

Joe Biden. Then black

37:17

people are gonna have

37:19

to become Libertarians. and

37:21

save America from

37:24

America.

37:24

Well, tell me about that

37:26

because you said earlier, you

37:29

know, the streets are talking and you sent

37:31

out a tweet a while

37:33

ago, inviting reason to

37:36

cover what you called the

37:38

rising interest in libertarianism in urban America. Yep. What

37:40

do you mean by that? So

37:42

let's go through a list of

37:44

prominent folks of

37:46

different backgrounds, some of them black, some not, that

37:48

are now like, yo, they're not democrats,

37:50

but some of them are. But

37:53

we're prominent Republican figures.

37:56

My good buddy, Ian

37:56

Smith. He's not black. He's white. He

37:59

fought against the COVID regime over there

38:01

in Jersey. Right? What

38:03

is Jim? Mhmm. He's he's seen

38:04

a weakness at a Republican party in

38:07

the

38:08

GOP. You guys, Operation

38:10

operation warp speed Warp

38:12

Speed. People wanna

38:12

take a mask or a jab. They should have the right

38:15

suit or not. And

38:17

he saw that.

38:18

When you

38:19

see guys like,

38:21

Major Williams ran

38:23

for governor, came

38:24

in eighth, seventh or eighth,

38:27

with

38:27

a laptop and a

38:29

cell phone. understands up

38:30

against the mighty Gavin

38:32

Newsom who also told

38:34

everybody else their restaurants had to close

38:36

down, but his winery and restaurants stayed

38:39

open. was there for that. Yeah.

38:40

Is that what I'm saying? Yep. There's

38:42

no other

38:43

you know, when you talk

38:45

about guys that

38:47

have been libertarian, Let's talk about

38:49

Black Financial Expert, Ph. D. Really smart dude,

38:52

doctor

38:52

Boyce Watkins, who's like,

38:55

in

38:56

our convert con conversation, and then he's like, bro, I

38:58

think I'm libertarian. I'm like, you absolutely are a

39:00

libertarian. Mhmm. Let's talk about for twenty years,

39:04

big boy outcast has been a libertarian and nobody really knew about it. We

39:06

hope. The reason why

39:08

people aren't more open

39:11

to libertarianism is twofold.

39:14

One, the left and the right,

39:16

meaning Republicans and Democrats,

39:18

you know, they got real

39:20

nonpartisan to make sure that the libertarian

39:22

party didn't look like a viable

39:24

situation as one.

39:24

And they

39:25

did that by highlighting the goofballs that

39:27

happened to be identify as

39:29

libertarian. And two, just shutting excuse

39:32

me. Still, one, shutting

39:34

out any

39:35

conversation about libertarianism.

39:38

And that

39:39

somewhat falls on our part didn't have

39:42

coolliberarians that spoke the language.

39:44

Like, this is what I loved about

39:46

president Obama.

39:48

That

39:48

dude was cool. Mhmm. Never mind

39:50

the fact that he

39:50

bombed a bunch of black nations. We'll just put that to

39:53

the side for a while. But man,

39:55

was he cool? Right. from

39:57

a PR perspective -- -- you know I mean? Also, Hagio Biden is

39:59

his vice president,

40:00

had your biden is advice

40:02

but the point

40:04

there is,

40:04

barriers we failed

40:06

to put our cool guys up front, and our

40:08

cool guys and women were like, right?

40:10

And a part of that

40:13

is for number

40:14

two. You

40:16

had clowns like Nick Sower work running

40:19

the space.

40:20

Goof balls. Mhmm.

40:24

Okay. goofballs. What what

40:28

goofball? Before we

40:28

continue with Zach Wise Miller's

40:31

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dot com slash TRI. Check it out now and use

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that code. And now back

42:28

to Zach WiseMueller's interview with

42:29

Modge Tourette. What do you

42:31

think that the

42:34

past

42:35

of the libertarian party and just libertarian

42:37

movement more broadly has been

42:40

missing. You you missed

42:42

people. Okay. But

42:44

why why is that? Like, what has been missing in

42:46

terms of You say there's this

42:48

natural there there's this natural

42:51

constituency out there that should

42:53

be able to be reached better. Mhmm. What

42:56

has been missing in either the

42:58

way the message has been

43:00

conveyed or the way the

43:02

messengers have conveyed it.

43:04

Both. Okay. You got

43:04

a lack of cool dudes that's like I

43:06

mean, even me, I was just like, I'm a

43:09

libertarian, but damn, guys. Right? And you

43:11

this is the part where III

43:13

give all credit due

43:15

to a due that

43:18

tireously and humbly did the work. Mhmm.

43:20

My gosh. Mhmm.

43:22

He didn't pay me

43:25

to say

43:26

this. the founder of the

43:27

Mesa's Coffee. Founder of the Mesa's Coffee. Mhmm. He just did the work. Mike

43:29

is the reason why I ran for City

43:31

Council. Okay. So you're a fan

43:33

of the Mesa's Caucasus. What

43:35

is it that you like about their

43:38

approach for things? They understand

43:40

culture. What was the

43:41

bright part? Politics is

43:43

downstream from

43:45

culture.

43:45

Right? Trump

43:47

understood culture. They got I mean, his

43:49

mean tweets got him into a I mean, other things,

43:51

obviously, but got him into a presidency. And

43:53

this is not an again, an advocacy for Trump or I

43:55

don't know what he's doing twenty twenty four, Kanye might

43:57

be running. I don't know. My point in

43:59

saying

43:59

that is,

44:02

the new technology is we can get a meme out to get a concept

44:04

to people a lot faster. And I know people say,

44:06

well, at least this call because they're just

44:09

like trolling and bro.

44:11

That's how Kennedy

44:14

won

44:14

his presidency utilizing his

44:17

handsome nature on television.

44:20

up against like tricky dick who looked up mess.

44:22

Mhmm. Right? That's the

44:24

medium

44:24

to transfer information now. Am

44:27

I saying that I agree with all of the

44:29

missus caucus or Libertarians in general. You know, somebody, you

44:32

know, as

44:34

a fake comedian, I could find some dark

44:37

humor in Right? But does dark

44:40

humor get us over

44:42

the hump? Maybe, maybe not. But I

44:44

think that what's what

44:46

what they've championed is, look man, we all

44:48

regular Americans out here. It feels

44:50

like the founding fathers were

44:52

like plumbers.

44:54

and, like, own print shops and, like, things like that. It feels

44:57

like the people. Trump had a feeling of

44:59

that as much as a billionaire could have

45:01

that feeling of the people. But

45:04

it still felt real. I remember, you know, and again, the marketing.

45:06

The marketing, it's like, bro,

45:08

we just here to promote liberty.

45:12

If I do something stupid, my

45:14

homies are gonna be, like, broke. I was

45:16

dumb. Just regular

45:18

human stuff. Not this fake

45:20

put together

45:22

Veneer. Again, Obama was

45:24

-- Mhmm.

45:25

-- cool. He re upped on

45:27

the Patriot Act. Now we have guys like

45:29

a Dave Smith, like a Justin

45:32

Amash, like maybe a

45:34

Tulsi gabbard, Right?

45:36

And women, not just guys -- Mhmm. -- that are

45:38

willing to

45:38

say, now we cool, we're polished, and

45:41

we know what we're

45:42

talking about.

45:44

We're not running

45:45

around, but like, you know, and even me, like, I might not

45:47

make the cut in that sense because I'm too

45:49

aggressive. I'm not polished enough.

45:52

But the other question becomes is that what American needs?

45:54

And so the libertarian party in the missus

45:56

caucus has has has a

45:59

grit

45:59

about it. that the average everyday especially urban

46:02

Americans. If we just say,

46:03

and this isn't

46:05

pandering,

46:07

we don't want

46:09

the war

46:10

on drugs. It is disproportionately

46:12

impacted lower class, black, brown,

46:14

white, whatever communities. It should stop.

46:16

Okay,

46:17

guys can see drugs won. The

46:19

war on drugs drugs won. Mhmm. Let's

46:21

let it go. Right?

46:22

If you're talking about gun control, we're

46:24

not with it. You ask any urban, white

46:27

of any background. You say, hey, do

46:29

you want the government more involved in your life? Or

46:31

do you want more restrictions

46:34

on government? in alignment with the thing the way that this thing is supposed to go in the

46:36

first place. Everybody in the hood is gonna

46:38

say, yes, we want the

46:40

limited government. used

46:42

their media skillfully to make

46:44

sure that it appears as if

46:46

the people don't have a viable option.

46:49

the missus caucus has brought that to the forefront and

46:52

shown, yes, you do. And I say this not as a

46:54

disparagement to any

46:56

other caucus. to people that

46:58

dislike the missus caucus, I want to

47:00

build coalition. You can

47:02

completely disagree with me on

47:04

that front. Where can we get some work done

47:06

together? How do you think they've

47:07

been doing so far in terms

47:09

of building that coalition since

47:12

they took over in Reno -- Mhmm. --

47:14

which we were both, therefore -- Mhmm. --

47:16

sidebar, my speech in Reno was absolutely

47:18

lit. it was. And I wanna get to that in a

47:21

second because I I wanna I wanna show some

47:23

of your speech and ask you to explain

47:25

it to our audience a little bit more. But

47:27

first, I am curious what you how you think things

47:29

have been going so far. I think it's been going

47:31

good in terms

47:34

of

47:34

addressing

47:36

addressing the the attacks

47:38

attacks. I think they're

47:40

doing

47:40

a very good job of handling the

47:42

haymakers that's getting thrown their way.

47:45

Mhmm. And a lot of it is not warranted.

47:47

I'm the black dude

47:49

saying, gun control is racist.

47:51

I point out actual racism, not

47:53

like oh, we were a MAGA head. I don't care

47:55

about that. Right? Mhmm. But

47:57

somehow the

47:58

dudes that have helped me,

48:00

right,

48:00

at certain points

48:03

that that LP

48:04

National under goofy leadership

48:08

didn't. Somehow

48:09

that dude's the racist or those guys

48:11

and women are the racist but

48:13

not the people that openly lied

48:15

about me. So I think the

48:17

missus caucus has done a good job of

48:19

even weathering that storm from

48:21

people that lost. You lost, bro?

48:24

Mhmm. There's something to be said for

48:26

an entire sweep of

48:28

delegates across

48:30

the nation. the nation That

48:32

means the

48:32

people in your town were like bro.

48:34

We we need something new. Instead

48:37

of fighting against that,

48:38

challenge us on a battlefield. Challenge us on a battlefield of

48:40

ideas. I think the challenge hasn't really

48:43

come for the missus Caucasian. Mhmm.

48:46

there were a couple of articles that came out

48:48

recently critical of them. One was pointing out that some of

48:50

the fundraising numbers have been down

48:53

and also that some of

48:55

their state chapters have disaffiliated.

48:58

Do do indicators like that

49:00

worry you at all in terms of, you know,

49:02

the growth let's give an example. Yeah. I think in the first week after the

49:04

missus caucus took over, they raised, like, two

49:06

hundred and forty thousand dollars or something like

49:08

that. I'm I'm not sure of

49:10

the number. get the real

49:12

fact checkers, not like the Facebook dues.

49:14

Right? Get the real fact checkers. I'll I'll I

49:16

will check this. Boom. Number. Yeah.

49:18

And, of course, if I'm mad and

49:20

it was my ball. I'm mad

49:22

that you won. I'm gonna take my ball

49:24

and leave. Mhmm. If you're

49:26

insecure insecure, but

49:28

I don't wanna, like, name

49:29

call them. I just wanna say

49:31

bro, listen, let's just try

49:33

it this way. We

49:36

cannot deny that there's not a renewed vigor

49:38

in interest. I haven't

49:40

even started really flexing

49:42

libertarianism. I'm taking over the

49:44

term BLM. She's no longer

49:46

stands for black lives matter. This

49:48

stands for black libertarian

49:50

movie.

49:50

You

49:52

laugh. But remember

49:54

in twenty sixteen, the tweet is out there.

49:56

I said, black people will be the

49:58

largest gun buying demographic

49:59

in America. And I

50:01

could have got more numbers if Biden didn't have black dudes being

50:03

felons. Mhmm. because the largest buying gun

50:05

buying demographic amongst black people is black women

50:07

because they're not

50:10

felons. So there's foreshadow

50:11

a bit.

50:12

You know, come

50:14

back in, like,

50:14

ten years later and, oh, shit. All

50:16

of the black people are libertarians now.

50:20

Right? So I haven't even really flexed

50:23

yet.

50:26

However,

50:29

those

50:29

challenges in regards to

50:32

their

50:32

people

50:36

disassociating.

50:38

Right. I I

50:39

welcome it. Mhmm. You have the right to

50:42

disassociate. I'm

50:44

gonna say, hey, let's stay and

50:46

continue to play ball together. I know that

50:48

you're mad. Take a minute.

50:50

Let's figure out the areas where

50:52

we can work together. Now, if

50:54

you're just posing as libertarian,

50:57

and you're actually aggressive.

51:00

Of course, you don't want to play ball with

51:02

me. My objectivity my non

51:04

judgment of you I especially makes

51:07

you more infuriating. I've

51:09

seen this type a thousand

51:11

times before. You

51:14

know,

51:14

girlfriends have

51:16

told me everything wrong about me

51:18

when they don't wanna win, when they

51:20

know that they can't win an argument.

51:24

It's gonna

51:24

be everything else. And I'm not saying this is as

51:26

as experienced women. I'm saying, like, I'm used to

51:28

this tactic. You're just saying that these

51:30

chapters are the titled ex girlfriend.

51:32

respectful. That's very respectful. Respectfully.

51:36

Now

51:37

now

51:37

My girlfriend

51:39

has a little bit of spicy

51:42

energy and emotion, but that's

51:44

my girlfriend. Yeah. Let me use

51:45

a different example because

51:47

people will say, You're saying that you're

51:49

those guys are girls. What I'm saying is, in any type of

51:52

relationship, brothers are gonna

51:54

fight, sisters are gonna fight.

51:57

We can fight in the house. We can

51:59

disagree, tooth and nail, knock and drag each other

52:02

down. But when we go outside,

52:04

there's an entire game called

52:06

the state that

52:07

does not give a fuck about

52:09

prague, nieces, we

52:12

are the responsible

52:14

adults in the room -- Mhmm. -- that

52:16

have to save the

52:18

constitutional republic that we identify

52:20

as America. But in

52:21

terms of reaching new

52:24

people, new demographics, building the

52:26

new BLM black libertarian

52:28

movement. Do you think

52:30

that any of the messages coming out

52:32

of the Mises' caucus are going to be

52:34

challenge for that. Like, there I wanna read

52:36

and excerpt from one recent article

52:39

in the Hill. Andrew

52:42

Kopelman wrote an article and

52:44

he said only a few years after

52:46

its greatest triumph, the libertarian party

52:50

is collapsing. torn apart by

52:52

an uncertainty of outright sympathizers with racist tendencies.

52:54

Libertarianism, the idea that power

52:58

must be absolutely minimized, relies on

53:00

ideas of individual rights that seem

53:02

flatly inconsistent

53:04

with racism. And yet,

53:06

libertarian rhetoric has always had

53:08

powerful attractions for those who

53:10

want to who wanted to resist

53:13

racial equality How is that possible? There is in

53:15

fact a connection, but it is one

53:17

of psychology and political history

53:19

rather than logic. blah blah.

53:21

What do you think about that? Blah blah blah

53:23

blah. Remembering, like, Charlie Brown when they

53:25

would listen to the teacher?

53:27

Wow. Wow.

53:28

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I've heard this a thousand

53:30

times. Show me.

53:32

I've heard I'm

53:33

like, listen.

53:34

If I if

53:36

I wanted to grip

53:38

Like, grip racial grip thing is all the rage. Mhmm. If

53:40

that was true, oh, we could just

53:42

exploit this. It's not the

53:45

case. I think I

53:47

think root of

53:48

what he's saying here is that

53:50

because Libertarians believe in freedom

53:52

of association. And like you

53:55

said, disaffiliating with groups you don't wanna

53:57

affiliate with, that this is gonna be used to discriminate

53:59

against minorities. And that's why

54:02

racists like

54:04

libertarians. Like, what's Like, is that some

54:06

of some of the most prominent libertarians?

54:09

Larry Sharp.

54:10

shot

54:10

Think he's

54:12

the dot

54:14

black. Eric

54:15

July.

54:18

Definitely

54:19

know he's black.

54:21

me. I mean,

54:23

my tan goes away in

54:25

the wintertime, but come

54:27

on, bro. Yeah. It's

54:28

the people this.

54:31

What section

54:32

of the libertarian party?

54:35

ousted me me from

54:38

being the keynote

54:40

speaker.

54:40

The same guy saying

54:42

that. Mhmm. Same type.

54:44

paint type

54:46

Right? What guys said, Yo.

54:48

We wanna help. Yo. You should

54:50

run for office. Yo. We want you

54:52

to come speak to the people. Yo.

54:55

We know that you're gonna challenge our people to be better.

54:57

The guys that won. Mhmm. Yeah.

54:58

I mean, I'll say to that point, I

55:00

was in Reno and

55:04

the Black speakers I saw were

55:06

you and Zooey, who were at the Misus caucus event. And you

55:08

did give quite fiery

55:11

and interesting speech. I mean, I'm

55:13

not just buttering or bread here. I think it

55:15

was, you know, the the

55:18

most

55:18

compelling speech of

55:20

the whole event. That's saying a lot. Ron

55:22

Paul was there. Yeah. I mean, that's

55:24

the OG True Call respect to

55:26

Ron Paul. You know, I was

55:28

And so I there was one excerpt I wanted to just we'll

55:31

probably play this, but I'll just read it now

55:33

because I want you to explain what

55:36

you meant. you issued a warning. You said two

55:38

wings of the bird that we

55:40

are in are gonna start dropping

55:42

off bags of money to

55:45

Some of you, some of you will be threatened, some of you

55:47

will be intimidated, some of you are going

55:49

to fold. What did you

55:51

mean by that? It's already starting with those types

55:53

of other articles. That's

55:56

the beginning. If

55:57

I can

55:59

if I can scare you by

56:01

saying some bad stuff about you when you stop fighting. I don't have to

56:03

do anything else. Mhmm. Look at it. You're

56:05

you guys are racist. Cut

56:07

but but again, This is

56:09

where accountability has to tap in. You guys

56:12

fell leadership, whoever,

56:14

failed

56:14

to get prominent black folks, brown

56:17

folks, Asian folks, Americans.

56:18

America's a salad.

56:20

It's different colors in

56:21

a salad. You fail

56:23

to highlight that said

56:25

this demographic similar to the Republican

56:28

Party. You fail to use

56:30

we fail to use the fact that

56:32

we don't have the same baggage as the Democrat

56:34

and Republicans as a part of our PR and marketing. Mhmm. So because

56:37

of that, this shit really sells itself

56:39

but she

56:39

wasn't out

56:42

there selling. You

56:43

wasn't pushing libertarian as a ministry.

56:45

Mhmm. And I get it. You didn't have people

56:47

like me around. You again, big

56:49

boy from Outcast, I don't know if I can

56:52

You know what I mean? arguably one

56:54

of the largest and

56:56

most popular hip hop groups of all

56:58

time. Mhmm. All he had to do is

57:00

say, hey, guys, check out libertarianism, but nobody

57:03

went that way. In that school, we ain't

57:05

fault on you because you were under different

57:07

leadership. It took people that had the vision to do

57:09

that. So with that being the case, I can

57:11

see how they're gonna package it that way. You

57:13

can use, but simple truth, remove the

57:15

context, and repackage

57:18

it to make somebody look completely the opposite of who they actually

57:20

are. And that's what's happening

57:22

here. So we gotta also

57:24

be personally accountable. Now, So

57:27

we're seeing that warning. We're seeing it.

57:30

That's the early stages of

57:32

it. You know, Telsie

57:34

Gabbard is not in the Democratic Party

57:36

now. Maybe she making, you know, a little she see a sweet there.

57:38

If we don't question

57:40

her about what's

57:41

her actual position in the

57:43

second amendment in Liberty,

57:45

You wasn't getting it done in the, you know, over there. You might not

57:48

be able to jump all the way to Republicans. We

57:50

have to be critical and guard the

57:52

fire.

57:53

right Right? Bags

57:54

of money will be dropped off.

57:56

Like, this is

57:58

This place

57:58

is built on

57:59

money and violence. Let's be

58:02

clear. Mhmm. And are you

58:04

speaking from, you know, experience

58:06

seeing this happen with No one's

58:08

dropped the Illuminati bag of money off to

58:10

me yet. I'm saying if

58:12

it's a I'm telling you guys, if you see me with a

58:14

black and white Bentley Continental GT, it's

58:16

the same car. Don't listen to me anymore. Okay.

58:18

Okay. I've been

58:20

compromised. Yeah. I was wondering what all that weird symbology on the outside of It's

58:22

crazy now. Right? Yeah. Egyptian

58:25

now. Yeah. I

58:27

just think that It's not

58:29

for personal experience in the sense of,

58:32

like, someone has directly tried to get at

58:34

me. It's

58:36

from the experience of what politics does.

58:38

There was a what's her

58:41

name? Was

58:41

the secretary of Condellizer

58:43

Rice. Mhmm. she

58:46

made a conversation on one of the interviews. She said, you know,

58:48

we don't some

58:50

people don't understand paraphrase what

58:53

People don't understand what politics does when you

58:55

go through that political meat grinder. You

58:57

do not

58:57

come out to say.

58:59

You know? And I

59:01

think that's true. And knowing that

59:03

and watching I mean, look at

59:05

our presidents. Look how they

59:07

age in

59:09

like eight years. I'm

59:10

like, dude, do you drink water? They

59:13

start to wither. Mhmm. This

59:15

is not,

59:18

you

59:18

know, This is

59:19

the house of dragons.

59:21

This

59:21

is the game of Thrones.

59:23

Mhmm. You

59:24

might end up looking like

59:27

viserus.

59:29

So the experience comes

59:32

from watching and live

59:34

experience and seeing

59:36

what happens. and it's easier to fold. I have one

59:38

gray hair

59:38

right here. I got it from a campaign

59:40

for a local city council

59:44

run. It was like, oh, no.

59:46

My point in that

59:48

is, this is

59:50

what happens. This is

59:51

what happens. We are talking

59:54

about billions

59:55

upon trillions of

59:58

dollars involved. The libertarian party is the third largest political

59:59

party in America. Mhmm.

1:00:02

You start affecting

1:00:04

change. You're gonna start

1:00:06

affecting

1:00:08

sentencing

1:00:08

guidelines, people coming

1:00:10

home from

1:00:12

jail, ending the war state. We

1:00:14

are talking about

1:00:16

billions of on trillions of dollars, that's people

1:00:18

that's

1:00:18

making them,

1:00:21

data drug dealers.

1:00:22

a drug deal

1:00:24

You talk

1:00:24

about libertarian. You talk about me getting kicked off of planes for not wearing

1:00:26

a mask. You're talking about the real drug

1:00:30

dealers, pharma,

1:00:30

farmer talking

1:00:32

about the American people saying we're gonna choose

1:00:34

to fall back and just focus on what

1:00:36

we're focusing on, not warmongering, not

1:00:38

forcing people to take drugs, not

1:00:41

forcing people in the freest nation in

1:00:43

the world, not being the largest

1:00:46

prison population in the world

1:00:48

as well. you start talking about these conversations, you're gonna start

1:00:50

talking about waking the the

1:00:52

dragons and the drug dealers up. Yeah. I

1:00:54

mean, there's also just

1:00:56

the always kind of

1:00:58

electoral threat of people

1:01:00

seeing, oh, or the libertarian's gonna cost

1:01:02

me this election and this state election

1:01:05

or over here and that

1:01:08

incentivizes all sorts of

1:01:10

sabotage. Cheaper for me to buy this guy off.

1:01:12

Yeah. To bow out of the race.

1:01:14

Right. Let's head on with a

1:01:16

Bernie Sanders. Let's get him to bow out.

1:01:17

Yeah. Let's disrespect him twice and get him to bow

1:01:19

out. Mhmm. Right. But Dave Smith said he'd

1:01:22

be in

1:01:24

favor being a little Machiavellian in that sense and, you

1:01:26

know, extracting concessions from

1:01:30

people on certain positions.

1:01:32

Yes. Me too. Yeah. Give me eight illuminati.

1:01:34

Give me eight hundred million

1:01:36

dollars. I mean, the reality

1:01:38

is it's too late. Yeah. Even if it

1:01:41

wasn't me or if it wasn't Dave or if it was if

1:01:43

he Ron Paul has wrote

1:01:45

too many books. information

1:01:48

is out there. Mhmm. And the state currently

1:01:50

has made too many blunders. They're doing

1:01:52

a lot of the heavy work for us. There

1:01:54

was no one in same mind.

1:01:56

It's like, you know what? This Biden guy's been doing a he's been

1:01:58

doing a bang

1:01:59

up job.

1:01:59

Mhmm. Not even

1:02:01

their own base.

1:02:03

So it's too late.

1:02:05

The

1:02:05

the toothpaste don't go back in the tube, the

1:02:07

rounds don't go back in the barrel. What do you

1:02:09

think about the ways you've heard Libertarians

1:02:11

talk about race? I don't really hear

1:02:13

him talk about race. Should that? One

1:02:16

relevant. If I say

1:02:18

as a libertarian,

1:02:19

gun control is racist.

1:02:22

I

1:02:22

have to quantify that statement. I have to quantify. How? What

1:02:24

do you mean? You just throwing accusations towards

1:02:26

gun control people? I have to prove

1:02:29

it. I have to say, well, black

1:02:31

coat, slave coats, Jim Crow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

1:02:33

blah, I have to qualify

1:02:36

that. So it's we we shouldn't pretend

1:02:38

like we aren't allowed to talk about race and

1:02:40

a salad. Right? The

1:02:42

tomatoes, like, when people say,

1:02:44

like, oh, I don't see color. Yes, you

1:02:46

do. These are the same people that say they don't

1:02:48

see color. and

1:02:48

it shouldn't be about color, but then they'll be wearing a white lives matter

1:02:51

shirt.

1:02:51

Mhmm. Even if it's always just to own a

1:02:53

whatever the you used

1:02:55

to see color.

1:02:57

or or you don't, acknowledging

1:03:00

the differences in the

1:03:02

cultural quirks and

1:03:03

idiosyncrasies that may

1:03:06

be different, is

1:03:06

different than being like,

1:03:08

you're worse because you have a

1:03:10

different skin tone.

1:03:12

a different skin tone Mhmm.

1:03:14

It's

1:03:15

like, yo, like,

1:03:16

if you think

1:03:18

if you think

1:03:20

Indian

1:03:21

food is good,

1:03:24

Chinese

1:03:24

food is good. American

1:03:26

food is good. African food

1:03:28

is good. You just quantified it

1:03:31

by the ethnicity or cultural

1:03:33

or nationality, and each one of those

1:03:35

different groups has different shades. Mhmm. That

1:03:38

doesn't that's not a knock. We

1:03:39

gotta stop doing these

1:03:42

massive overcorrections. everything was like

1:03:44

super racist. And I was like, oh,

1:03:46

nothing's racist. Oh, nothing is racist at

1:03:48

all. We're post racial

1:03:50

America. Like, stop it, bro. That's makes

1:03:52

Mhmm. It's like, yo, I'm gonna go down to the

1:03:54

Mexican spot. They they have the best

1:03:56

tequila list.

1:03:58

Nah bro, my

1:03:59

man,

1:03:59

I'm a get a Irish coffee. Heek to

1:04:02

Shelei's his lip. Oh,

1:04:04

those are two different. Well, I want the Irish

1:04:05

coffee on a warm

1:04:08

morning. Yeah.

1:04:09

Right? Just appreciate it. And go, yo, in

1:04:11

my home, I

1:04:13

have a quran, i have a koran

1:04:16

the bhagavad gita the papyrus,

1:04:18

the book of

1:04:19

coming forth

1:04:20

by

1:04:22

day, a bunch of different versions that are

1:04:24

holy

1:04:25

bible, If my I got

1:04:28

yoga mats at the crib. I

1:04:30

have prayer rugs at

1:04:32

the crib. if my Muslim

1:04:34

friends come over and it's time for them to offer

1:04:36

Sala. Cool. Teach

1:04:37

me about that and I'll do

1:04:39

it with you. You

1:04:40

know, the current leadership of the libertarian party

1:04:43

has declared, you know, wokeness.

1:04:45

The idea of wokeness is

1:04:48

kind of public enemy number one, they go hard against

1:04:50

things like critical race

1:04:52

theory, gender ideologies also

1:04:54

wrapped up in that. What do you

1:04:56

think about

1:04:58

that should Liberators be focused on that as an issue?

1:05:00

I think, again, in

1:05:01

a full of context,

1:05:04

I think

1:05:05

If it's a over correction, that's not

1:05:08

a correction, really, then you

1:05:10

shouldn't. If it's like, hey, hey,

1:05:11

you know I'm not racist.

1:05:13

Right? It's like, bro, I just asked

1:05:15

you, did you wanna get

1:05:17

a taco? Yeah. It has nothing.

1:05:19

It's like

1:05:20

it's like almost asking, like,

1:05:23

what's

1:05:24

the marital status of my cell phone? It doesn't

1:05:26

go together.

1:05:27

So if it's this

1:05:29

fake over correction, no. But

1:05:31

if you're acknowledging the disparities and, like,

1:05:34

yo, a few days ago it

1:05:36

was,

1:05:37

like, Columbus Day.

1:05:39

Bro, that's not what happened. Dude

1:05:42

didn't do the way that did he open

1:05:44

up some trade routes and did he lay the

1:05:46

groundwork for the transatlantic slave trade and

1:05:48

capitalism in America. Yes.

1:05:50

Absolutely. Was he like, hey, guys, here's a

1:05:52

cornucopia with fruits and vegetables. Fuck

1:05:54

no. That's not what happened. fairytales. It's a

1:05:56

fairy tale. So if it's this fake over

1:05:58

correction to hide

1:06:00

the atrocity, no -- Mhmm. --

1:06:02

as opposed to saying, we live in this

1:06:04

great place in is based on some but

1:06:06

then you or have the room

1:06:08

to say, there's been a lot of atrocities around

1:06:10

the planet. But when we're talking about America specific,

1:06:13

I'll give you an example.

1:06:15

Right? We're talking

1:06:16

about America

1:06:17

specific. Let's

1:06:20

not

1:06:20

try to diminish anybody else's

1:06:23

historical struggle. And if you

1:06:25

can

1:06:25

appreciate their

1:06:28

recognition that their people

1:06:31

have overcome, and we're a part of this American experience

1:06:33

together, absolutely, you should talk about it.

1:06:35

But if you're only using

1:06:38

it as a

1:06:39

talking point to

1:06:41

pander to your more

1:06:43

bigoted

1:06:43

base or portion of

1:06:44

that base than is stupid.

1:06:46

What

1:06:47

about talking about systemic racism in things like the

1:06:49

criminal justice system or the

1:06:52

drugstore? Yeah. That's legit.

1:06:54

There's no

1:06:56

I don't

1:06:56

think that they were saying, hey, guys, just don't talk about it at all. Yeah.

1:06:58

It was it was saying, let's focus on

1:07:00

liberty. And when these conversations come

1:07:02

up, let's address them as such.

1:07:04

You're not gonna get I did Dave Smith's podcast years

1:07:07

ago. Right? And he literally was

1:07:09

like, yeah, black people should

1:07:11

be, like, historically, black people

1:07:13

should be the most armed people in American. I don't

1:07:16

know why they bought line who claimed the

1:07:18

sinker on that -- Mhmm. -- the anti gun thing.

1:07:20

Yeah.

1:07:20

That's not a pender?

1:07:22

That's not and

1:07:23

I thank him as a

1:07:24

Jewish dude, like, he might know what his

1:07:26

lineage may know a little bit something about

1:07:28

suffering because of their background. Mhmm.

1:07:31

I think that what happens is the

1:07:33

leadership was trying to say, we're not gonna do

1:07:35

this over correcting fake

1:07:38

candor thing just because we're trying to chase lefties.

1:07:40

Right? That's the difference. All of this is

1:07:42

contextual.

1:07:42

We're not just gonna

1:07:45

be like, hey,

1:07:46

look, I love a certain level, I love the

1:07:49

fact that dudes weren't afraid to kick me out

1:07:51

even though they were wrong for their

1:07:53

reasoning. Their reason Right?

1:07:56

I love that they didn't

1:07:59

handle me with kid

1:07:59

gloves. Well, we can't -- Right.

1:08:02

-- can't kicked

1:08:03

No. We don't like them. Kick them out. Yeah. I

1:08:05

can like the merit of you going, we just don't

1:08:07

like you because you're with

1:08:09

them. Yeah. Fuck

1:08:12

you. Not. Keep them

1:08:13

even though we

1:08:13

don't like them. Keep them because we don't wanna look like that's

1:08:15

corny. That's

1:08:18

a panda. Yeah. Well, this divide kind of up over the

1:08:21

Black Lives Matter movement because,

1:08:23

you know, the Star Wars

1:08:25

faction, like, very much

1:08:27

aligned themselves with that

1:08:30

cause, there was the No. They There's of infamous like, not to racist.

1:08:32

You have to

1:08:35

be anti racist, which I

1:08:38

somewhat agree with the sentiment of

1:08:40

what was trying to be said. Okay. And

1:08:42

what was wrong with the execution?

1:08:44

Was your work We

1:08:45

shall work in alignment with

1:08:47

that. Okay. Like like when I'm critical of homies, like when I'm

1:08:50

critical of hoods across America,

1:08:54

Where's my work at? I don't wanna

1:08:56

hear cornballs on a

1:08:59

conservative, you know, platforms

1:09:02

talking about Black conservatives. Oh, the black. The

1:09:04

black. You don't do a fucking thing

1:09:06

in the community. Shut the fuck up.

1:09:10

No participation. I question your right to speak,

1:09:12

not to rob your voice, but I'm

1:09:14

gonna be critical of your voice. What

1:09:16

have you done? I

1:09:18

can't talk about black people arming

1:09:20

themselves and conflict resolution until I've done the work.

1:09:22

Mhmm. So these people that are and I'm

1:09:26

not equating those goofball

1:09:29

black can serve this that I won't even mention their

1:09:31

name. I'm not talking about them and equating them the same as the person with

1:09:33

the tweet and all that.

1:09:35

Yeah. I'm saying I

1:09:38

understand the sentiment, which is like, well, I'm just here.

1:09:40

I get

1:09:43

that. But if left

1:09:45

as media is painting you as the

1:09:48

back and forth with

1:09:50

the guy with the beard.

1:09:54

one of the conservatives on one of

1:09:56

those wider shows. Anyway, we went back

1:09:58

and forth because he's Matt

1:09:59

Walsh. I think that's nice. I know

1:10:02

that's his name. I'm

1:10:04

just fucking

1:10:05

around. But, like, they're

1:10:07

not interested

1:10:07

in expanding

1:10:10

their

1:10:10

values to a new demographic.

1:10:12

They're just fighting

1:10:13

against the minority of leftist media

1:10:15

that's painting them a certain way

1:10:17

and I get it. Why do's are great?

1:10:19

You guys how does it feel to be

1:10:21

fucking under attack for once. Right? So it's

1:10:24

like

1:10:26

first time.

1:10:28

Right? famous

1:10:28

meme. The the point there

1:10:31

is you're attacking.

1:10:32

you're attacking

1:10:33

You're

1:10:35

saying things. Mhmm. that the

1:10:37

minority of leftist media is painting you a certain way.

1:10:39

Tactically and strategically, you go, fuck

1:10:43

black lives matter. they, the people that you're

1:10:45

talking that that are painting you as racist, I'm not trying to

1:10:47

convince them. You

1:10:50

just mad at them. But the three million black people

1:10:52

that are swing voters, that's who's

1:10:54

watching you. And then they step

1:10:57

back and go, see? told you what it was

1:10:59

racist. Uh-huh. Then they'll say, well, it

1:11:02

shouldn't be about political change. It

1:11:03

shouldn't

1:11:04

be about political wins, but

1:11:06

then they'll turn around and say, Well, the

1:11:08

blacks need to get off the Democratic

1:11:10

plantation. Great. You just called me a slave. You didn't inform me. Mhmm.

1:11:12

You didn't educate

1:11:13

me. You didn't lead with empathy.

1:11:15

I don't say stay

1:11:18

at empathy. You didn't lead with empathy. You didn't

1:11:20

say, hey, man. I'm a I'm a white dude. I don't

1:11:22

really know nothing about that, but I just know that

1:11:24

I didn't I didn't experience that

1:11:27

or maybe I did. But You you guys'

1:11:29

community is getting targeted, bro. That war on drugs thing is

1:11:31

impacting you guys more than anybody. Maybe you should

1:11:35

look into libertarianism. Right?

1:11:36

Remember when Donald Trump

1:11:38

said, it's two examples of Trump.

1:11:39

One was when he

1:11:43

said, I think it was campaign in the time in Detroit, I think. It

1:11:45

was Detroit or Chicago. I'm pretty sure it

1:11:47

was Detroit. And he

1:11:50

says,

1:11:51

you go

1:11:52

outside. You

1:11:53

have no jobs. You get shot.

1:11:55

Unemployment is high.

1:11:56

Voting for me.

1:11:57

What have

1:11:59

you

1:11:59

got

1:11:59

to lose?

1:12:01

what did you got to loaves

1:12:03

And everybody was like, whoa.

1:12:05

I can see

1:12:06

that. It's

1:12:07

not a panda.

1:12:09

It's just a

1:12:10

reality. These policies in

1:12:11

this city have hamstrung this

1:12:13

community

1:12:14

and that's what it is.

1:12:17

Give a different example.

1:12:19

I was at the White House a few years

1:12:20

back. I went there for an

1:12:22

event.

1:12:22

It was the black youth summit.

1:12:25

you some And I was there,

1:12:27

and I was in the White House, and I was, you

1:12:29

know, just checking it out.

1:12:31

And Trump came out maybe ten feet

1:12:33

away from me. He's speaking to this

1:12:35

group of young f African American folk.

1:12:37

Right? They

1:12:38

all got they MAGA heads, they from all around the country. They Trump.

1:12:43

Trump

1:12:43

literally said, African

1:12:45

American

1:12:46

people built this country. I was there. I was standing right there.

1:12:52

He said, we all built it, and I'm

1:12:54

a paraphrase because I'll, you know, whatever. because he said, we all built it, but you guys had a special you and your elders

1:12:56

had a special

1:12:59

hand in building it. And

1:13:01

I just think right now you're just starting to get the

1:13:03

credit for that. Ali, I was like,

1:13:06

oh, that

1:13:07

was cool. Whatever. I'll

1:13:09

leave. I'll walk back to the hotel.

1:13:11

I have a drink at the bar. CNN

1:13:13

splashes it on. Of course, they didn't put

1:13:16

that party. Of course,

1:13:17

the way that

1:13:19

it was cut and edited was presented as it

1:13:21

the

1:13:24

just

1:13:24

like, wow. And I'm looking at people at

1:13:26

the bar, but they

1:13:27

weren't there. You know? They

1:13:30

don't have the context.

1:13:32

So We're not talking about

1:13:34

if the left

1:13:36

wasn't

1:13:36

promoting

1:13:38

you as the

1:13:40

racist.

1:13:40

the racist tactically

1:13:42

and strategically, they are going out of their way to paint you a certain way. So we're not

1:13:48

saying pander So,

1:13:49

like, look, look, I'm not racist, but we are saying, let's use

1:13:51

the facts. Let's use as libertarians. We have not

1:13:53

set up a war on

1:13:56

black people.

1:13:59

and that's

1:13:59

leftist media

1:13:59

narrative. We as libertarians, we

1:14:02

have not set up gun

1:14:04

control in your communities

1:14:06

for hundreds of years to stop you

1:14:08

from having a basic human right.

1:14:10

Mhmm. You explaining that is not you pandering. It's going,

1:14:13

I'm actively showing you

1:14:15

that they are lying. So

1:14:18

I get the sentiment of what that tweet

1:14:20

meant. I

1:14:20

get it. Yeah. But the question

1:14:22

becomes, when you say that, are you doing a

1:14:24

panda? because you're

1:14:26

just in alignment with the BLM Marxist, whatever. And you're just kinda like bending the to that

1:14:32

rage mode. these conversations are

1:14:34

far overdue, but they're nuanced and contextual conversations.

1:14:36

The problem is

1:14:39

most people won't say here's

1:14:41

why I agree with that and here's

1:14:43

where I disagree with that because they've committed themselves to just one

1:14:45

side. Mhmm. I'm not on any of these motherfuckers' teams. I'm on

1:14:48

team USA.

1:14:50

team usa

1:14:51

Right? Yeah. I'm in

1:14:52

this is the

1:14:54

league that we're in. Mhmm. And

1:14:57

I'm on Team USA.

1:14:59

And in Team

1:14:59

USA, we got guys that have

1:15:02

been getting put on the bench.

1:15:04

Me

1:15:04

and these three guys

1:15:06

on the team, the black

1:15:08

dudes, We've been put on the bench

1:15:10

for a very long time. I'm saying put us in

1:15:11

coach because you guys have no problem putting

1:15:13

us in to get we can

1:15:15

be Steve Kirk. Right?

1:15:19

Mhmm.

1:15:19

I'll I'll

1:15:20

be writing when you're ready. We have been Steve

1:15:22

Kerr for Michael Jordan in the mighty Chicago

1:15:24

Bulls. But what we're saying is

1:15:26

if we're going win these championships, This has

1:15:29

to be done really based on

1:15:31

liberty and not only putting me in because when it's time for fucking contract

1:15:33

renegotiations, don't try to

1:15:35

diminish our fucking

1:15:38

Add on

1:15:38

to the team. Mhmm. because

1:15:40

that's what happens. Y'all wanna

1:15:42

diminish our ad on to the team

1:15:44

like we help build America. than the

1:15:46

people that mentioned that you wanna package them

1:15:48

a certain way. Our problem

1:15:50

as us as the Libertarians is

1:15:53

we have not found the right

1:15:55

messengers to articulate those positions thoroughly. And

1:15:57

that's

1:15:57

why Joe

1:15:58

Rogen won't have me on.

1:16:00

more have meal

1:16:01

Maybe maybe I'm

1:16:03

wrong. You never know. Should.

1:16:05

It should. Maybe

1:16:06

that's why. And I'm

1:16:07

not it's not an attack on Joe.

1:16:10

It's not an attack on Charlemagne. It's not

1:16:12

an attack. People like

1:16:14

me, which are artists, we influence shit. I'm gonna I've already

1:16:16

influence shit

1:16:18

started influencing libertarianism.

1:16:21

And in that

1:16:23

influence, we impact money.

1:16:24

we impact money

1:16:28

Do not put him on the air when

1:16:30

I left his platforms. All of our music is deaf, black death, death,

1:16:32

kill each other. Kill each other. Can

1:16:34

you imagine if I made a song called

1:16:38

We're gonna kill the whites. We're gonna when I run

1:16:40

up on the white, we're gonna kill them.

1:16:42

Mhmm. Imagine if I said the j I

1:16:44

can't even say the word even though everyone knows

1:16:46

that I'm not being offensive. imagine I would say we're gonna kill the j's. gonna kill

1:16:48

the j's. Mhmm. They would snatch

1:16:50

me off the Internet. But

1:16:53

somehow, left his

1:16:55

media narratives say, I can make songs

1:16:57

if you run up on me. I'm a shoot them. I'm a kill them. I'm a murder them. I'm a

1:16:59

kill them. Kill, kill fucking

1:17:04

kill death. Take

1:17:06

them to jail. Prison industrial complex thirteen fucking amendment money. Don't put me on your

1:17:08

platform. I'll fuck

1:17:11

your money up. I'll

1:17:13

make young people go, we bought this Liberty shit. We're gonna get money. We're not going

1:17:15

to jail. We are gonna

1:17:18

fuck up your contracts with

1:17:20

prisons. your

1:17:23

prisons that say, hey, you gotta make sure that we have a

1:17:25

steady stream of inmates. I'm gonna fuck your

1:17:27

money up. So

1:17:30

I

1:17:30

i get it. Mhmm. You

1:17:32

should be very afraid of me.

1:17:34

You should actually come give me eight hundred million dollars

1:17:35

Illuminati. Come

1:17:38

on, dude, you got it? let me wrap by asking this because you

1:17:40

just you you know, we just went over

1:17:42

some of the words of wisdom that you

1:17:46

offered to the audience there in Reno. You're now talking

1:17:48

to a slightly different audience, although

1:17:50

there might be some overlap.

1:17:53

You're talking to

1:17:55

Libertarians watching this but, you know, maybe some

1:17:57

that are more skeptical of the means of caucus. What is your

1:18:00

mess you're

1:18:02

becoming an increasingly prominent

1:18:04

spoke men in the libertarian

1:18:06

movement. So what is your kind of closing message to a recent audience?

1:18:08

If you completely

1:18:11

don't

1:18:11

like me. Right? I

1:18:14

told a donor

1:18:15

to eat a

1:18:16

dick, you

1:18:17

know. You've heard

1:18:19

all of these false

1:18:21

things about me. Right? I I don't care to even, like, try

1:18:23

to clean them up. Did you get any more donations after

1:18:26

that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

1:18:28

donor actually wasn't that great of a

1:18:31

donor. He was a dick. If we say and why do I bring

1:18:33

we say and why do i bring it up

1:18:36

that up? If

1:18:36

we say we want real authentic

1:18:38

public servants, I wanna serve whether it's a political seat or I don't I just

1:18:40

is a political seat or i don't want to serve

1:18:44

wanna serve. with

1:18:44

knowing history and here we have,

1:18:46

you know, African sculptures. We got komenic, not egyptian. Komenic symbols

1:18:49

all over the place,

1:18:51

powerful symbols. Mhmm.

1:18:54

men,

1:18:54

women, right,

1:18:56

equality. But I

1:18:58

live here.

1:18:59

I was

1:19:01

born

1:19:02

here. This

1:19:03

place that we all

1:19:06

live in and

1:19:07

love is on

1:19:09

the verge of

1:19:11

a nuclear war.

1:19:12

Like,

1:19:13

I'm

1:19:14

joking a lot.

1:19:16

This this interview

1:19:18

is laugh, we joke, we have genuine conversation.

1:19:21

The reality though is,

1:19:24

we have allowed

1:19:26

the state, meaning Libertarius. through

1:19:28

our interleasing rivalries,

1:19:30

through our apathy, through

1:19:34

our anger, dislike, whatever,

1:19:37

poor all of that, dislike

1:19:39

on to me. No problem. All I'll ask is this. Do

1:19:41

you as a

1:19:43

libertarian? No.

1:19:46

that we

1:19:46

have one of the most viable solutions

1:19:49

to save the place that

1:19:51

we all live. If

1:19:53

you

1:19:53

think that

1:19:55

is the case, I apologize. I'm wrong.

1:19:58

I

1:19:58

will take the

1:20:00

brunt of every

1:20:02

accusation that's thrown my

1:20:04

way.

1:20:05

All I

1:20:06

ask is that you figure out a space, say fuck mys the

1:20:10

entire time.

1:20:13

I just ask that you figure

1:20:15

out a space with your so called libertarian rival

1:20:17

or adversary, find one or two areas that you guys

1:20:19

can work together. to

1:20:23

save this place. I'm

1:20:25

just a dude. Just

1:20:26

a dude.

1:20:28

the do I'll

1:20:30

take every

1:20:32

stone If

1:20:32

you will commit, if you are

1:20:34

the prags, find the, you know, missus guy, figure out a area that you

1:20:37

guys can work

1:20:40

together. Reverse. whatever that is.

1:20:41

You don't like Dave. You don't like mods. You don't like Eric. You don't like Larry. You don't like

1:20:43

this. You don't like that. You

1:20:45

don't even fucking have an

1:20:48

Outcast album. whatever.

1:20:50

Right? All I ask is that

1:20:51

you do that for

1:20:52

a

1:20:54

small period of time.

1:20:57

Use that to

1:20:58

communicate with the people on your local level and just

1:21:00

put more energy into promoting

1:21:02

the ideas

1:21:03

of libertarian as them,

1:21:07

then you put into

1:21:09

tearing down other laboritarians. If

1:21:11

you can give me

1:21:13

that for

1:21:14

three months, I promise you things will be going in

1:21:16

the direction and whatever

1:21:18

little bullshit beef we've had,

1:21:21

it won't even matter. And

1:21:23

I in that with the cherry on top saying, I

1:21:27

apologize to you.

1:21:30

brother's

1:21:30

fight in the house. When we

1:21:32

go outside, we have to fight against

1:21:34

the state. Marsha Ray, thank you very

1:21:36

much for talking with me. Thank

1:21:39

you. This

1:21:40

is Ben the reason interview with

1:21:42

Nick Gillespie. Please right now, before

1:21:44

you do anything else, go

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1:22:04

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1:22:07

Thanks for listening.