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The RebelRebel is a show dedicated to creative rebels and entrepreneurs

0:30

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0:33

courageously in service of making the world a better and more interesting place.

0:36

75% of all employees within an organization believe

0:41

they have an idea to move the business forward.

0:44

We want an 8020 ratio within your organization.

0:47

You want 80% to be your function, and then you want your 20%

0:51

to be your innovators, entrepreneurs, your vital employees.

0:55

RJ dives deep into his transition from entrepreneurship to corporate America and back into entrepreneurship.

1:01

Along the way, he found new insights into entrepreneurship and his impact on corporate culture.

1:05

Please welcome RJ Grimshaw to the RebelRebel podcast across the world.

1:11

at least three times, if not for all the way in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

1:14

I've got RJ Grimshaw. RJ, how are you?

1:18

I'm doing great. Michael, how are you today? I'm so good. I'm so good. It's,

1:23

It is one of those days where you wake up and I just, I don't know, I've got the energy.

1:27

I got the bounce in my step.

1:29

It's interesting you say that because this morning I woke up by 4 a.m..

1:33

Same thing. I was ready to get up, and I knew that if I got up at that point, that I'd be exhausted by right now.

1:39

My my, fuel tank only gives me so many hours to run.

1:43

And as you drink your coffee or tea, probably it's tea.

1:45

It's sleepytime tea. It's sleepytime tea.

1:48

but you've three hours behind me. You know, it's a little bit different, but,

1:52

I don't know, it's something in the air. But as I was saying earlier, we had an absolutely gorgeous day for March 3rd.

1:58

Yes. Or March 4th yesterday in Ann Arbor.

2:00

It's 71 degrees, which is new record, which is unheard of. So,

2:06

but we'll take it. So I think that's that's what probably got me in the mood

2:10

this morning to get up and take on another day like yesterday.

2:13

Right on. Oh, yeah. Let's do it.

2:16

so why don't you catch us up here? RJ, let's start here.

2:20

And, if you could tell us what you're up to now, like, what is what is RJ world

2:25

look like professionally? And then we'll zip back in time and figure out how we got here.

2:29

So I'm in a very interesting place right now. I'm just coming out of corporate America.

2:34

previously, for the last ten years, our CEO president for Unify Equipment

2:37

Finance, which was a long established equipment finance company.

2:41

So what we did is we help businesses across the country

2:44

finance the equipment that they need for their business. Right.

2:46

We could either make them more efficient or grow revenue.

2:49

If you think about, any type of asset could be from backhoes

2:52

to bulldozers, to Fedex trucks across the country.

2:56

Tow trucks. Wow. However, in the middle of last year, as I was approaching my ten year anniversary,

3:03

every typically, every company, every,

3:05

you know, specifically in the banking industry, they go through

3:08

an annual review of succession planning, what the future looks like.

3:12

Yeah. One, three, five growth plans. Yeah.

3:14

And we grew the company, I should say. The team grew the company from 13 million to 120 million of top line

3:20

revenue in that timeline. Holy cow.

3:23

So amazing growth, amazing team.

3:26

however, we are in a place now where we wanted

3:29

to go to maintain and I'm not I mean maintain guy.

3:32

I'm a growth guy. Yeah. And either I knew I would either go stir crazy, drive a lot of people crazy,

3:40

or the combination of both where I'm driving people crazy and on top of going crazy myself.

3:45

So, the bank president, I on the board, we came to an agreement,

3:51

that the business was in a good place, great management team, and quite honestly, again,

3:56

it was, I would be overcompensated just to be, a maintenance guy.

4:00

So I went out on my own. And long story short, able Leadership is the name of our boutique firm.

4:06

Yeah. primarily what I'm doing today currently is working with equipment,

4:10

other equipment, leasing finance companies in our industry, in our country,

4:14

which is $1 trillion business that most people aren't aware of.

4:17

No clue, because it truly is a specialty within,

4:21

the finance financial world.

4:24

so now I'm working on that. But I also have a passion project.

4:30

about entrepreneurship. I learned this term in 2003,

4:36

and quite honestly, the way I've learned the term is after I worked for myself

4:40

from 23 to 34 on a corporate America because, an event in my life.

4:45

And then three years after being in corporate America, I read a book

4:50

by Tom Peters called reimagine, who had entrepreneurship as a term.

4:54

And I immediately identified as that.

4:56

And for your audience, the definition of an entrepreneur.

5:00

Don't confuse it with an entrepreneur. Yeah, it Inntrepreneur is a person that thinks just like an entrepreneur.

5:07

However, it's in the confines of a larger organization.

5:10

So think of it as a business of a a business within a business.

5:15

and as soon as I identified is that I really helped propel my career.

5:21

Where from that time, within ten years, I raised I went up through the ranks,

5:26

moved around corporate America and became the CEO president for unified. Wow.

5:32

and that's what I did for the last ten years.

5:34

Holy cow. So how does Inntrepreneur ship shape up for you right now?

5:40

by being out on your own. It's really educating other businesses

5:43

and other and other people, primarily on the,

5:47

the advantages of utilizing this type of operating.

5:49

I call it an operating system. Yeah. Everyone's heard of iOS scalability, things of that nature,

5:55

and they're incredible systems, and I'm not trying to play off of them.

5:58

However, a lot of times we forget the human element within your organization.

6:03

And I don't even call, you know, a lot of times you'll hear people

6:07

call their their team or staff of assets.

6:11

They're not assets. These people are human beings.

6:13

They want to have their voice be heard. They want to work in an environment that their voices heard.

6:17

However, as a business owner or a corporate leader,

6:20

you have to foster that environment, right? And it is not just an initiative.

6:23

You just don't say one day, okay, we want more feedback.

6:27

There's a process to that, a systemized process that we use it unified.

6:32

Now I'm working with other companies

6:34

to deploy that type of operating system and culture.

6:37

Crazy stat. Deloitte just did a survey in 75% of all employees within an organization,

6:43

75% of all employees within an organization

6:48

believe they have an idea to move the business forward.

6:53

Wow. However, we don't provide them the avenue to be able to share those ideas.

6:58

And again, it's a it's not very difficult to do,

7:01

but there is a systematic process to doing.

7:03

That, all that untapped potential.

7:06

And that's what we tapped into at unify.

7:09

And Michael, the other thing though, we coach business owners to

7:13

you don't want we we we decipher your entrepreneurs

7:17

as your vital team members, your vital employees.

7:21

Your non inntrepreneur is are your functional.

7:24

They show up every day. They're core to the business processes.

7:28

They can file systems. However that's all they're going to do. Sure.

7:32

And there's nothing. Wrong with it. And that's probably just what they love doing.

7:35

That's what they love doing. That's what they're good at. Yeah.

7:37

So what we do is we we coach to we want an 8020 ratio within your organization.

7:42

You want 80% to be your functional.

7:44

And then you want your 20% to be your innovators,

7:48

entrepreneurs, your vital employees.

7:51

However, what we have found is when you set up

7:54

the operating system, the iOS entrepreneur operating system, love that you'll start seeing that

8:00

that 80% actually goes down to 70% in 60% and your vital goes up.

8:06

Yeah, yeah, because it's an avenue now people are hearing their voices heard.

8:11

And we also have a software system where they're able to put in their ideas,

8:16

have them reviewed by management work.

8:19

completes a loop of communication.

8:21

And now all of a sudden what happens is, you see discretionary effort pickup.

8:25

And what I mean by that is that we throw away job descriptions.

8:28

You had a core job description. Yeah.

8:30

But when we would hire at unify, typically the last line I would say this

8:35

to a candidate before I left the room, if we were going to move forward with the person is a year from now,

8:40

if your job description is the same as it is today, two things have happened.

8:44

One, we haven't provided you the atmosphere or culture for you

8:48

to become who you want to be and play to your strengths and your superpowers,

8:53

or you didn't take advantage of that culture.

8:56

It's one of the two. Wow.

8:59

So heat him up to walk right in

9:01

with our thinking about and those folks we wanted fresh ideas from.

9:05

Because think about this. We're in the jar every day and we can't see the label, right?

9:09

You bring someone in, you bring someone in.

9:11

It's sort of like your house. If you're getting ready to sell it,

9:14

the realtor comes in and says, you got to paint that. You have to fix this. Fix it.

9:17

Well, we've been looking at it for the last five years, but we're not sensitive to it because we see it every single day.

9:23

Holy Hannah. All right.

9:26

Okay, a couple things to unpack here. Number one is, I love I, I would up here we say can't see the forest for the trees.

9:34

that is the first time I've seen, can't see the label

9:37

because you're in the church or whatever. However you put is so great, I love it.

9:41

but I would like to go back in time

9:44

and try to unpack how RJ came to this.

9:48

And I know it's a team effort and all the rest of it, but,

9:50

I mean, it does get driven through the organization.

9:53

And did it happen? you know, was there somebody in your life that inspired you to be this way

9:58

and to think about things differently, like, what does that look like for you?

10:02

Early days? Yeah. So we go back in time.

10:05

as I mentioned earlier, when I turned 30 is when I learned of,

10:10

or when I turned 30, I went into corporate America.

10:13

Yeah. From the age of 23 to 30, I owned a bar restaurant.

10:18

I was fortunate enough and blessed enough to be born into a family of entrepreneurs.

10:22

My dad's business plan hangs behind me. From 1983.

10:25

That was cursive. Handwritten in pencil.

10:28

Yeah, three parts. Him and himself and two partners and an outline. The whole business.

10:32

They took this plan from from concept to a $50 million revenue company.

10:38

My grandmother owned a florist.

10:40

Very successful floors, my grandfather on the other side of a soda distributorship.

10:45

So for the natural progression for Grimshaw was you own your own business. I

10:51

wasn't sure what I was going to be in my business was at the ripe age of 23.

10:55

My dad was crazy enough to finance a bar restaurant for my brother and I. Wow.

11:00

So he bought the property and then of course leased it to my brother and I.

11:04

He was also our our bank, our funding source for that.

11:07

And he allowed us he did not enable us to have him do all the work.

11:12

We went out and set up the LLC. We had to work with the insurance company, and this is before the internet,

11:17

where you could just log on and have five proposals,

11:19

and you had to go see someone in person and talk to them

11:23

and introduce them yourself to them and explain what your vision was.

11:27

Weird. Same thing with beer distributors. And I think back now at the age I'm at 54,

11:33

what was New York State thinking about issuing a 23 year old a liquor license?

11:38

yeah. I don't even know. It's possible nowadays.

11:41

Yeah. However,

11:44

as I learned, my MBA in running a business and hiring my first people

11:49

and having my first person that that we let go, come back for, unemployment

11:53

and learning everything that your audience goes through on a daily basis.

11:58

Unfortunately, on February 2nd of 1999,

12:01

my dad, at the age of 61, passed away from a massive heart attack.

12:05

sorry. And but he prepared me for for where I was at that age, at 30.

12:11

So I'm 30 years old.

12:14

I'm already married ten years. I already have one son

12:16

that's four years old, another son coming on the way that is due in March.

12:20

And he passed away in February. So I had to sit down with my wife and have a real heart to heart conversation.

12:26

yes. This entrepreneur thing is great.

12:28

We're successful. However, I'm scared because I've

12:32

lost my mentor and and my my security blanket.

12:36

And I think the best thing for me to do is go out

12:38

and use what I've learned here in corporate America. Wow.

12:42

And lo and behold, I fell into a quagmire financing and what it did for me

12:49

is it offered me an opportunity to keep my entrepreneur fire.

12:53

Yeah, in my belly. Because guess what? I was working with?

12:57

I was working with other entrepreneurs. Sure. Yeah.

12:59

They're building their own business and they're building their own businesses.

13:01

So I could walk in but relate with them automatically.

13:05

I wasn't another rat. Yeah.

13:08

and I wasn't about bragging about where they came from,

13:10

but they could just tell just by the talk track. You know, you can tell when you meet someone

13:14

and have a conversation with, okay, they get it or they don't get it.

13:17

Yeah. But really, in 2003, when I learned of that term and I

13:20

actually wrote a paper on Tom Peters and the term entrepreneurship,

13:23

that's when I really went all in on that term, and I saw my career

13:27

take off and I was being presented opportunities that

13:32

the imposter syndrome kicked in. Why me?

13:34

Why what what what what makes me special? Yeah.

13:37

In a situation in 2004, took place where I was at the time working for KeyBank,

13:41

they came to me and asked me to run a business banking team.

13:44

Now, keep in mind, Michael, I never worked for a bank.

13:49

I, I never sold the deposit account.

13:53

I worked inside of a bank in the equipment finance group, but never on the banking side.

13:57

Yeah. And the district president said, we want you to throw your hat in.

14:02

And I said, okay, at that point you have to listen, right? Yeah.

14:04

Throw my hat in. I interview, I tell my current boss I'm interviewing the other thing is

14:09

I knew he wasn't going anywhere, and I always said, I want to be.

14:12

I want to be in leadership. And usually younger guy, lo and behold, I get the job presented

14:16

to me and offered to me. So now I'm in banking,

14:21

ran my first team, successful, great people.

14:24

And then another opportunity came along. Another opportunity came along.

14:27

And I did this with three companies. It wasn't like where I was. Job.

14:30

How happy I looked at the opportunities within the organization

14:34

to identify where I could add the most value.

14:36

And that's what an entrepreneur Inntrepreneur does.

14:38

And I was going to say like, one of the things that pops into my head when you're telling me this story is,

14:44

you know, the imposter syndrome, of course, is a thing.

14:47

But if you hadn't done that before,

14:50

why would they come to you to run this thing that you've never done before?

14:54

What is it that they saw? And what can we learn from that?

14:57

Yeah, and it's really about the attributes of an entrepreneur.

15:01

It's resourceful. I never you know, I never said, well, we don't have,

15:04

you know, the assets to do that or I don't have the budget.

15:07

I figured it out. I would figure out how to get things done just like a business owner does.

15:11

Yeah. And, you know, life learner, you know, an entrepreneur.

15:15

As a life learner, I'm always learning, just like yourself. Every single day.

15:18

I'm trying to consume information to make a better version of myself.

15:22

That and just passion for life. You know, I was upbeat attitude.

15:26

It all plays into your personality.

15:30

And then the other key thing is your background, your upbringing,

15:34

the context of your of of your family

15:38

and how you arrived and how you show up.

15:41

People knew my backstory, and

15:45

I brought a different sense to banking

15:49

and a viewpoint than your traditional banker had.

15:52

And I understand risk management. I understand that, you know, it's you can't.

15:56

The only way we stay in business is by making good loans

15:59

or we're out of business. And so, so many people don't realize that.

16:03

Yeah. but I think also the main reason Michael is I enjoyed working with business owners,

16:09

and I just found that as my calling, if I was engaging and working

16:12

with a business owner every single day, or a bunch of them,

16:15

I was in my happy zone.

16:18

and therein lies the, trajectory

16:21

and I. And during the time, Michael, I didn't think anything about it.

16:24

It's now, as I'm reflecting back,

16:27

you know, I Azure. But I just thought it was normal. I just thought, you know what?

16:30

Yeah, I'm lucky I'm in the right spot at the right time.

16:33

Yeah. You know, and I'll go back and share something and it, it really speaks volume to mindset

16:40

and abundant mindset.

16:42

And anyone that's listening to this podcast or watching

16:45

if you're successful and you're in corporate America, your phone is ringing all the time

16:49

from executive recruiters with different opportunities, right?

16:52

And pitching you different opportunities. If you have a good brand and whatever market you're in, you're being recruited.

16:57

Typically, I'll never forget this.

17:00

I was out on the West coast of December of 2012,

17:03

and I happened to receive two phone calls.

17:05

And that's typically when the in our industry,

17:07

the executive recruiters, start putting the press on

17:09

because they know people's years are ending. Yeah, their bonuses are going to be paid out in Q1.

17:14

So if you are going to make a change, that's the time that you start considering it,

17:17

because also you get your new kind of plan for the following year.

17:21

So when I receive the phone call or both phone calls, the second one, for some reason, Michael, I said to him,

17:26

the only thing I'd be interested in is a CEO or presence type role.

17:32

I have no idea what made me say that.

17:36

I think it would. He just caught me at the right time and I said, you know,

17:41

I said, Larry, the thing I'm interested in is the CEO president.

17:44

I'm happy where I'm at company who was loyal to me during the downturn

17:48

in 2008 to 2000, you know, 12 at that time,

17:53

gainfully employed. Well, Michael, in January of 2013, I had two different CEO

17:58

president opportunities presented to me and this was one of them per unified.

18:04

Isn't that something? And in the meantime, I also went down the process of talking to another company,

18:11

not through a recruiter to another company that I ultimately turned the job down.

18:15

And it was for a lot of money. And I remember saying to my wife, I go,

18:17

I don't know why I'm turning this down, but my intuition is telling you to.

18:22

And, I ended up here in and I speak about that

18:26

now between logic and intuition when it comes to innovation, right.

18:30

There's a combination and you have to have a little bit more of your, intuition

18:35

than you do in your logic, because logic is just looking backwards at trends.

18:39

Yeah, intuition is looking, taking the backwards

18:41

and also looking forward to forward trends. Yeah.

18:44

Oh, that's such a great topic to dive into.

18:47

because innovation is a scary thing because it's an unknown.

18:52

it I speak to innovation. This is an amazing stat that I share.

18:56

If if you look at Google Trends or group Google search words innovator

19:01

over the last five years was searched 18,839 times just in the States.

19:07

Okay, okay, 18,839 times.

19:10

However, innovator 722 times.

19:16

So everyone's looking for innovation,

19:18

but they're missing the key component the people who drive innovation.

19:21

And that's your inntrepreneur and your innovators.

19:24

So that's what we educate companies on.

19:26

How do you deploy this type of culture within your organization?

19:30

Wow, wow. Well, have you have you had any pushback from companies like.

19:37

Tremendous pushback okay.

19:40

Tremendous pushback because it's not for everyone.

19:42

And when when I personally talk to a business owner that,

19:46

you know, seeks more information, it's a year commitment again because I

19:51

to be successful, there's stages that are 90 day sprints

19:54

that we go through to help the company that we did it unified.

19:57

Yeah. And it's very similar to exercising or going to the gym.

20:02

You can't go to the gym one time or two times or three times.

20:05

Walk out and say, man, I am the most important person in the world now.

20:08

Yeah, it's a process and it takes time and it takes dedication and commitment

20:12

and consistency. That's the same thing with this program, because what I don't want to do is have

20:17

one roll this out and it starts with leadership.

20:21

And that's really where the pushback is because how many times will we run into

20:26

someone who says, we've always done it like this, why things are good.

20:30

Yeah. And I should say blockbuster Sears.

20:32

You know, I got I go on and on and on and I say I'm not trying to be rude.

20:37

I'm just giving you examples of people that said things are great.

20:40

We have no competition. Right?

20:43

Right. And then you look at, on the flip side, Netflix.

20:47

You look at Netflix. Exactly. And blockbuster had an opportunity to buy Netflix for a dime and they passed it.

20:53

However, even if you're not looking

20:57

just to innovate from a product set, yeah,

21:00

this culture provides engagement

21:04

from your team members because now their voice is being heard

21:08

and you're going to see incremental increases and improvements

21:11

in your processes and systems on a daily basis. Wow.

21:16

Without coaching people, it's just naturally going to happen.

21:19

Yeah. Oh, that's so inspiring.

21:22

RJ like it's really I applaud you for it

21:25

because I think it's one of those the missing pieces in a lot of ways.

21:29

It it is, it is. But the challenge is to your, you know, I your question again

21:34

the immune system of a corporate environment.

21:37

It's very difficult to change. Yeah.

21:39

The bigger the organization

21:41

the more difficult it is to pivot and change.

21:44

So we try and identify different verticals within the organization.

21:49

A lot of times we'll search with the HR department because they're trying to figure out how to increase engagement.

21:54

There's so many different statistics that come out about employee engagement right now, which none of them are good.

22:00

Yeah, none of them are good.

22:03

Yeah. Okay. And as well as we we really saw this during 21

22:09

and 22 during the shortage of good talented employees.

22:13

Or they were jumping. Yeah. We didn't lose that.

22:15

We lost one person at unified and quite honestly it was a position

22:18

that was better for her for this individual.

22:21

Yeah. To take

22:25

because again, when people's voices

22:28

are heard within the organization and they're we call it commissioning.

22:31

They're commissioning with the leadership team, they feel they're vested.

22:35

Yeah. They're not going to leave for more money. They're not going to leave because they think it's greener.

22:39

The grass is a tad greener. You might leave if there's a family issue or they're moving or relocating,

22:44

or if an opportunity presents itself that's going to further their careers.

22:48

But just to go lateral, they're not leaving.

22:50

Yeah. Here's the other thing too. We added we beta tested an A

22:56

and B for our job descriptions or job postings.

22:59

One we just used our normal job description.

23:02

The other one we added one bullet point which was Inntrepreneur mindset.

23:08

We saw the caliber of the candidates for the B with that word or two words inch for sure.

23:13

Entrepreneur mindset on the job description grew up tremendously

23:17

and what it did is also provided diversification of our candidates

23:21

because people were maybe coming from different industries,

23:24

but they knew they could take their talent and leverage it

23:28

in our industry.

23:31

So cool that okay, isn't that something?

23:36

Why do you think more people aren't doing this?

23:40

One lack of AG. It's really education and everybody wants instant gratification.

23:45

Back to my example, 18,839 searches for innovation.

23:49

But you know, it's like diet people plug in diet into, you know, diet.

23:53

They don't you know what? What do I need to do specifically to lose 10 pounds or improve my health?

23:59

Yeah, it starts with people and we actually have two assessments.

24:03

So if we're working with a say I come across a business owner say, oh,

24:06

we're we have a great culture. We're an innovation culture.

24:10

I'll say, great, I have a free assessment that we can send out to all your employees

24:14

that I'll receive back the automation, and it's going to do 1 or 2 things.

24:17

It's going to validate what you believe.

24:20

So it's validation. Do what your your gut telling you. Yep. Or

24:25

or it's going to show you what's really going on.

24:30

and areas for improvement.

24:32

And, and if it is as good as you say it is, we can take that data now

24:38

import fuel on the areas that are doing really well to go to the next level.

24:43

you know, also say that I'm not trying to sell my, my services for it.

24:46

Right. That's you in in quite honestly, I might use you now as a best practice or,

24:51

case to show off because you have this type of, of operating system.

24:57

Oh, that's far out, RJ, that's so cool.

25:01

but primarily it's it's you.

25:04

Two things have happened typically in a business when they seek

25:08

our services, one,

25:11

they're having, again, a lot of employee turnover.

25:13

It starts there a lot of times. The second thing is they've had a a point

25:18

where their revenues are just stagnant or they're going backwards.

25:22

So the the owner or the, the leader of the business is saying

25:26

we have to do something and they start looking at different avenues.

25:30

And again, iOS is a great platform.

25:32

I promote it, you know, scalability, whatever there is, get out

25:36

something that your whole management team is talking with.

25:40

Rhythm and consistency. How it

25:44

does maybe a right out of left field, but how important is brand to this story.

25:49

For me? How important is brand?

25:56

I would

25:59

I would say important, but I don't know how to define that.

26:01

Yeah, okay. Fair enough. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

26:05

It's, Like, I guess what I'm asking is that is is the

26:10

is the company culture part of the brand experience, like, yeah, this.

26:14

Has to be. Yeah. And it's all culture and it starts at the top.

26:18

And if a lot of so that the reason that we coach individuals and I'm

26:23

building out a DII course for individuals Michael is two reasons. One,

26:30

they learned the topic or they have identified.

26:32

So say if I'm speaking at a conference and then all of a sudden someone identifies it as an entrepreneur,

26:37

I tell them you to be happy and to have the success

26:42

that you want to be able to impact the company that you're working

26:45

for, you have to be aligned with their mission values.

26:50

Envision. Yeah. And if you're not, you're going to get frustrated.

26:53

Right? So go seek a company that and I seek that type of organization that unified that.

26:59

I knew I would be aligned with. I knew that I would be aligned with my boss.

27:02

I knew I'd be aligned with the culture and what they stand for.

27:04

High performing company, you know, cares about community

27:08

cares about, you know, their their team members.

27:11

So as soon as you can find that alignment, then go blossom.

27:15

Yeah. Go, go, go to where you're wanted.

27:18

and it starts with leadership. And again at the leadership side are going to convey this type

27:23

of a culture within the organization. And you are an entrepreneur.

27:27

And here's the other thing we coach. And to add

27:30

that you have an entrepreneur mindset on your LinkedIn or on your resume,

27:36

and walk in talking be

27:39

and that's what we trying to be proud that you're an entrepreneur and what makes

27:42

you different with with studies of what you what you've done before.

27:46

We had an individual at unified that came in.

27:49

I had a blind spot to this early on in 2014.

27:52

We're growing the balance sheet, earning assets or receiving payments

27:55

from our customers. Well, we didn't have an online portal to take customer payments.

27:59

Well, in the digital age, that's a big miss.

28:01

That's not customer centric. Like we said we were.

28:04

You know, our tagline was is obsessed with your success.

28:07

However, we're going to take you now to the chat.

28:10

So he came to me

28:13

and he was a true entrepreneur through and through and said,

28:17

validated with the idea of context why we needed to do it.

28:21

Yeah, we did not have budget to do it.

28:23

We did not have a resource to do it. However, I said, if you'd like to run with this project,

28:29

it would make a tremendous difference in our organization.

28:32

Well, Michael, 90 days, he influenced our IT

28:36

department to to put this on the roadmap for them.

28:39

Yeah, he influence our third party provider to set it up.

28:43

And in 90 days it was set up and it was going in.

28:46

Today we process over $100,000 a month through that portal.

28:49

Holy Christmas was not on.

28:51

His job description was not a requirement, but he he identified it

28:55

because he understood the business. He understood the systems of procedures and most important,

29:00

he was customer centric, right? He understood and focused on our customers.

29:04

So if I go full circle back to the 75% of employees

29:08

that have great ideas, yeah, that's why they have the ideas.

29:11

It's not going to come from a boardroom. It's not going to come from a corner office.

29:15

It's going to come from the people who are engaged on a daily basis

29:18

in the trenches, taking care of your customers. Wow.

29:23

That's very well said.

29:26

Yeah. Love it.

29:28

let me pivot on here a little bit here, RJ.

29:31

what what is what is something that you do just for RJ?

29:36

That's a great question.

29:39

enjoying my boys. They're young men now, I mean, but but anything to do with them?

29:45

that's really where my joy comes from. My mom, she's 81.

29:48

Same thing with her. Anytime I can spend with my mom.

29:52

you know, especially losing my dad.

29:54

You know, my mom was 55 when when my dad passed in 61.

29:58

And it's amazing.

30:00

that generation, you know, you married, who you dated, and.

30:04

Yeah, you know, she had no desire to get married again.

30:06

And I'm the oldest of four boys, so, you know, I've kind of been her,

30:11

you know, person to to, you know, just be by her side and be there for her.

30:17

That's it. I love business, I love coaching, I love, you know, CMC.

30:22

I just love the art of professional development too.

30:26

That's the other thing. I mean, two different masterminds because the only way that I can make

30:30

people better is by pouring into myself, in turn, pouring into them.

30:36

so really, that's, you know, golf, pickleball.

30:38

The other two. We have hobbies of my wife, but she beat me.

30:42

So it's. You have to a married, a good athlete.

30:45

So that's awesome as you. As you should.

30:48

I had a friend. So this friend of mine, he's older than I am,

30:52

and I go to the gym every day, and I've got my Apple Watch,

30:55

and I'm closing my rings, and I'm doing this stuff, and him and I decide to have,

31:00

competitions because he's a he's got an Apple Watch dude,

31:03

he kicked my ass because he played pickleball.

31:07

And the amount of calories he burned in 45 minutes.

31:11

And the steps he took, like I was blown away.

31:14

And he never even realized he was working out. That's why I love pickleball.

31:17

Because you're you're, you know, it's strategy.

31:21

It's thinking it's competing.

31:23

It's it's social. It's it's a fun sport.

31:26

To and sacrifice and you're moving and I have not played it yet and but it's on my it's on my list.

31:32

But I'm just like the. Difference. I'm. Blown away. We'll be ready is a big thing.

31:36

We're headed to. We're headed to a wedding to Memphis, on Thursday.

31:41

And we have friends coming from New York.

31:43

And lo and behold, we text him, hey, you bringing your rackets?

31:46

No, they're bringing their rackets.

31:49

If we're going to play. Well, we're down in in Memphis.

31:51

So it's just one of those sports that anyone can play.

31:54

Yeah. You don't have to be a sub. I've been beaten by many times.

31:57

You look at somebody like, oh, it's going to be easy. I get my bucket.

32:02

It's so great sport.

32:05

That's great. Love it. And a growing sport too.

32:08

Holy Christmas. That's like insane how fast it's taken off.

32:12

The streets and bounds. It's, It's unbelievable.

32:14

And I don't see. I don't see it slowing down,

32:18

Anytime soon. Well, I know that it not to make this a pickleball episode at all, but,

32:22

like, they're converting tennis courts now to pickleball courts.

32:26

So we did that at our club, and you really upset the tennis players.

32:29

The tennis players are really taking it on the chin right now.

32:32

Yeah, because of the integrity of their game.

32:34

But what's amazing and I said this to my wife Sunday evening, we play in a Sunday evening league

32:39

is just the diversification of the demographics of pickleball.

32:42

You have everything from old to young.

32:45

Yeah. To different, you know, different Nash.

32:47

Now it's it's a sport that everyone enjoys. Yeah.

32:50

And you don't see that with many sports.

32:52

Yeah. And everybody can play against each other. Like exactly.

32:55

Elder people against younger people. They're both having a blast.

32:58

Both having a blast. And and so that's why I, I

33:02

well that's why I know the, the, you know, the success

33:06

and the growth is driving because anyone and everyone can play it.

33:10

Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Good for you, man.

33:13

I'm thinking I'm stoked if inspired me to

33:16

maybe look a little closer into this and maybe I'll kick my friends. But

33:21

just be ready to commit. Learning the scoring is the hardest thing.

33:24

My goal, it really is. Really.

33:27

And think about then you're, you know, I always joke, you know, you're losing

33:31

oxygen when you're playing, which you can't remember things.

33:34

So now you're trying to remember the score.

33:36

and you see, for people, you know, if we're playing above 50 looking to like,

33:41

what's the score or do you like a little ball thing

33:43

to keep track of the score so we don't forget and it's it's competitive.

33:48

It's fun. You just be ready when you play.

33:50

You're going to be addicted to it. All right.

33:52

man. All right, I know I okay, I'm going to do it.

33:56

I'm going to put it on the list and we're going to get it done. That's great.

33:59

okay, let let me take you again.

34:01

Let me zig and zag a little bit.

34:04

Imagine, if you will, you're walking down,

34:08

South Main Street, Ann Arbor.

34:12

I don't know if you can picture that. There is.

34:14

I hear it's a lovely.

34:16

It's beautiful. Road.

34:18

and you're thinking to yourself as you're walking,

34:22

oh, man, I wish the world knew this one thing.

34:25

What is the one thing, RJ, that you wish the world knew?

34:29

This is easy. I wish that the world understood the value that in in chip in your brains.

34:34

Every single business. The entrepreneurs are the doers.

34:39

The entrepreneurs are the visionaries.

34:41

You need both of them for success. Wow.

34:45

Okay. You're right. That was easy.

34:49

Amazing. are you, what's your favorite food?

34:53

Just another non-sequitur for you. Steak.

34:56

Love a good steak with a martini or a great red glass of wine.

35:00

Okay, lovely. I was going to say, favorite cut of steak?

35:04

I love a filet.

35:06

Filet with blue cheese on top. Night steakhouse in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

35:11

It's my favorite place.

35:14

if you're in Ann Arbor, that's the place to go to just,

35:18

you know, medium rare, blue cheese, baked potato.

35:21

It's all fresh. Fresh meat, never frozen.

35:25

and it's just a good steak. Love it.

35:27

You're, you did mention, a couple of books,

35:32

some Peters, some Peters titles.

35:36

what, what's on your bookshelf? What's your what's your go to right now?

35:41

double double by Cameron Harold. I really leverage that book quite a bit.

35:45

When we were growing unified iOS traction.

35:47

It's on my bookshelf.

35:51

extreme ownership. Jocko. And another wonderful book. E-myth.

35:55

I believe that every single,

35:58

every single entrepreneur

36:00

or even business leader should read the emails.

36:04

Really? Any and what? Why is that?

36:08

The simple principle of working on the business and not in the business.

36:11

So many times entrepreneurs believe that we're superheroes

36:14

or leaders, and I've been guilty of that and we can't do anything.

36:17

That's why you want to surround yourself with entrepreneurs that can help you

36:21

take things off your plate, so you can leverage your superpower

36:25

and not be caught up in the day to day activities.

36:28

Yeah. It's well said. do you like music?

36:32

I'm not a big I'm not really a big music guy.

36:34

Now, it's one thing my wife and I, we met at 17

36:38

and we're high school sweethearts, and we've always commented that we're not

36:41

big music people are concert goers. We've been.

36:44

She's a big Billy Joel fan. We've seen Billy Joel twice.

36:47

other than that, we. If you're going to see two concerts in your life,

36:51

Billy Joel twice would be the ones I would recommend and seen.

36:53

We saw them at Camden Yards and my brother in Baltimore first, first,

36:57

first show ever at Camden Yards. So that was pretty cool to do that. Yeah.

37:00

Yeah. That's interesting. That's one of my favorite concerts of all time I've ever seen.

37:03

It was Billy Joel like it was.

37:06

He's a showman for sure. Well, when he if he plays I, I've already promised my wife.

37:10

If he plays this fear out in Vegas, we will be there.

37:14

I just think it'll be an unbelievable show. And oh yeah, in that atmosphere, I actually anyone

37:20

in that atmosphere I think would be amazing show.

37:23

Yeah. No kidding. What's your favorite again? This two parter.

37:27

What's your favorite part of America?

37:33

It could be physical or existential.

37:35

Yeah.

37:38

I love Texas, okay, I really do.

37:42

And it's not political driven. It's more. So,

37:47

we we spent three years in Houston,

37:50

and my boys learned southern manners at a at a perfect age.

37:55

Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am.

37:58

You never get off an elevator before the female,

38:01

all the females are off the elevator. You never go through a door before a female.

38:05

You hold the door open. Just those little things.

38:08

And people are just friendly. They're. They're just.

38:10

You know, I came from the northeast and, you know, bigger city,

38:13

spend a lot of time in New York City. Calling on people is just a different world.

38:17

I'm guessing it's bad. Yeah, it's just different.

38:19

Where in the South or in Texas?

38:22

Predominantly. it's just a different pace of pace of life and and,

38:28

again, I go back to just, just, you know, how people are.

38:32

They treat each other with respect.

38:34

yeah. That's nice. Have you.

38:36

So part two is have you traveled outside of the US, and if so, do you have a favorite spot?

38:41

I've only traveled once, and it was this past August.

38:44

My wife and I and my two boys went to Italy for ten days.

38:48

which part? we we started in Lake Como,

38:53

and then we went to Milan.

39:01

Milan. What's what's what's the city with the with the all the water.

39:05

Venice. Venice. Jeez, how could I forget?

39:08

That's Venice. And then we spent.

39:11

And then we went down and spent, almost four days in Rome.

39:14

Oh, and what we were there to do, Michael, which is really cool,

39:18

is my youngest son plays collegiate hockey.

39:22

and it was a tour for his hockey team with all the parents and boosters.

39:25

Oh. Very cool. So we went into Sweden.

39:28

You play two games in Sweden? Wow.

39:30

What in the northern Italy, where the Olympics are being held in,

39:34

being held this summer? Is this this summer? Next year?

39:38

Wow. I just saw everything in Italy.

39:40

Have you been. You've been there? Yeah, I've been to Italy once.

39:42

You okay? Yeah. And that was the longest.

39:46

That was the most time I've ever taken off.

39:48

Was that two weeks? I've never taken two.

39:51

And I took off and I my, my

39:54

my teen knew you know he's not going to be there's no emails.

39:57

We're going to handle everything. Yeah.

39:59

And when I originally scheduled I thought yeah

40:02

we're going to want I'm going to want to get back right away.

40:04

Well let me tell you something. After two weeks, I'm like, yeah, it'd be kind of cool to go to France for a week.

40:10

What do you think? Am I wrong. Or. Oh, you're, you're you're bang on.

40:13

And the one thing I don't know whether you had this experience

40:16

in, in Italy, in northern Italy is different than mid or southern Italy.

40:20

But you're, you're in Rome, but what I loved the most about

40:24

it was you'd start eating at around nine

40:28

ish, you know, and food would drift out and you'd talk

40:31

and then you'd have some wine and then there'd be more food,

40:34

and then there'd be some more wine, and there'd be.

40:36

And before, you know, it's like 1:00 in the morning and nobody's in a hurry.

40:39

Everybody's just. And I love that the

40:44

just the connection, the food,

40:46

the unhurried, atmosphere

40:50

and the fact that I was not very good at Italians like speaking Italian.

40:53

But when I did try, they genuinely appreciated the effort,

40:59

you know, which is different than some places in the world.

41:02

Right? Yeah. No, I agree with that. And that was one of the more things we enjoyed.

41:06

It's just going to people just sitting and people watching.

41:09

And I remember doing that with my grandma, my grandparents,

41:13

they're French-Canadian and they called it the French Ballet.

41:16

When you had people watch you sit on Main Street with an ice cream on a Sunday night and watch people walk by.

41:21

So my wife and I, I was joking with her.

41:23

I said, yeah, we're just at the Italian ballet. We're just sitting here drinking our Spitzer

41:27

and watching people, people walk by and you're then you have nowhere to go.

41:31

You just relax and just yeah, your heartbeat goes down.

41:34

yeah. You're engaged with the world?

41:37

Yeah. It's just it's magical. Yeah.

41:40

Mediterranean diet. yeah.

41:43

I'm sure I would live an extra 20 years if I move it.

41:46

My my partner Jennifer, like, she really wants to move to Greece,

41:51

and I've never been degrees, but I do have it on my list of,

41:55

like Corfu, like one of the smaller islands.

41:57

Something like that would be a magical.

42:00

It would be? Yeah. Absolutely magical.

42:04

this has been so much fun.

42:06

RJ and I, I mean, I don't want it to end, but I do need to ask this question.

42:11

And you have you've given that, entrepreneurship

42:14

and entrepreneurship answer, which I really love and appreciate it.

42:16

And I now have a newfound love for entrepreneurship

42:19

now that I know what it is. But there are these people and maybe,

42:24

maybe it's the 70, the it's the 80% right that that you're shifting.

42:29

But what advice would you give to that 80%

42:33

or the rebels in waiting, or these people that aren't sure what to do next?

42:37

How would how would you help them get there? I would

42:40

say if they're if you are contemplating,

42:43

of leaving your job to go start something, becoming that entrepreneur.

42:48

Yeah, I always highly recommend it.

42:50

Identify the organization that does what you want to do

42:55

and go apply their work there. You might find that you're better served to be in the entrepreneur before risking

43:01

your capital doing, what you believe is going to make you happy.

43:06

Interesting. Now, when I say that, some people will say, well, geez, is that really ethical?

43:10

You're going to a company and you're going to steal their ideas and then go start on your own.

43:16

It's all in context. That's not the intent.

43:19

The intent is to go there. Yeah, he's the best employee you can be.

43:23

Add value and impact. That organization and then make a decision.

43:27

If you want to go do it on your own before you have to start writing checks in your own capital.

43:32

And remember the ROI for RJ.

43:35

During my career, I never had to make a monetary investment in any of my companies.

43:41

However, I reap the rewards of my efforts

43:45

over that time.

43:50

This has been deep and meaningful for me.

43:53

RJ, I really appreciate this.

43:55

thank you so much for your time and your generosity.

43:58

This has been a time well spent.

44:01

I've enjoyed it. I've really enjoyed you again.

44:03

You know, I you're a great host, by the way.

44:05

You know, your questioning and, you know, engagement.

44:08

And in level 40, it's refreshing to have this type of conversation.

44:12

So thank you. Thanks, RJ.

44:15

I've been your host, Michael Dargie, and this has been the RebelRebel Podcast

44:18

a podcast for creative rebels and entrepreneurs all over the world.

44:21

And hey, if you're a rebel or, you know, a rebel, why don't you head on over

44:25

to TheRebelRebelPodcast.com and fill out our guest request form.

44:29

We'll get back to you within 24 hours, and maybe we can share your story

44:32

with the world. Don't forget to like, share, or subscribe wherever you get your favorite podcasts.