0:00

Jamie: Those kids that I went to school with, the ones that are still here, are now the richest millionaires. Company owners all because they found their way into skilled trades. And, you know, it's funny cause we were the dumb kids in school and now the smart kids in school actually work for some of the dumb kids that now own companies, right? Trevor: Welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast. I'm your host Trevor Matthews as a former technician turned entrepreneur. My goal is to really help train you, educate you and mentor you in the commercial refrigeration industry. Each week, I'm going to have top guests from technicians. Manufacturers to experts around the world to really help us grow and learn together by sharing their knowledge in commercial refrigeration, commercial HVAC, and not only on the technical side, but really the professional and the personal development side as well.

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I'm really excited that you're here. Now let's get a conversation going. Welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast. I'm your host, Trevor Matthews. I'm here with my good friend, Jamie McMillan from made in the trades. And we're going to be talking about a few different cool things. You know, how do we future proof the industry we're going to get into attracting and empowering more people to get into our workers, because this is something that you do all the time.

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But first off, I'd like you to introduce yourself to everybody. Jamie: Absolutely. I'm Jamie McMillan and I'm an iron worker and boiler maker. I've been in the trade for 21 years and now I am an educator and professional speaker and I get to work across North America, educating youth to get into the skilled rides.

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Trevor: And that's what I love. Like we, we've been going, we've been talking for years. I'm a ambassador for a kick ass careers. We've been, we've been out to do some talks together and I know you've been a huge advocate for decades, really trying to help the industry out. And I'm really proud of you, what you're doing. You know, I really appreciate you going out there and trying to get more people, uh, excited about the, the industries and all industries. And which is really great. Uh, let's talk about a couple of events you've been at lately that you spoke at and how'd they go?

0:08

Jamie: Oh, well, I just actually came back from a two week working and backpacking tour. I took three conferences and kind of molded them all into a two week backpacking trip through California, Nevada, and Phoenix. But I got to, I went to three different conferences during that time and I also finished up at a conference where I'm now a committee member for the International Foundation of Employee Benefits.

0:10

Wow. And they have two Canadians representing, both of us are Jamie's and we're both Boilermakers and um, we're helping with the training and education and skilled trades promotion and support. Trevor: So

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Jamie: that's one of the cool things that I get to do, but I get to go to a lot of really cool events. I get to meet a lot of cool people and I get to spread a very vulnerable message, which has a lot of impact on so many people. And that's, that's what I ultimately want to change the industry by changing the attitude about it and within it.

0:14

Trevor: And that's one of the things like we've talked about before, you got to start at a young age too. I just had a conversation with a teacher, educator, and he says, By the time they get to the, even the trade schools, they're already lost. They're not ready. You know, even for life skills, you know, so how do we start at a younger age? And I know that's what you've done for years going out to grade schools and you have coloring books. So make sure you get her coloring books too. Um, the thing is, is that what can more people do to really help this?

0:16

So that's the thing, right? You, you're one person, you're doing a great job and you're affecting thousands of people's life. And I love it. How do we help other people Get that message out as well. What are some of the things that you do to help that? Jamie: My biggest, biggest focus right now is early childhood education.

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And the reason why is there's kind of a psychology behind it and people don't always understand the psychology behind things as part of it is that it's hard to teach an old dog new trick. So if we want to change the industry and make it a more equitable, inclusive working environment, we need to start changing the attitudes of the people in the industry. And that's, that's difficult to do because. As a young person, you learn your emotional intelligence by the time you're between five and seven years old. And so in order to really change the perception of how people behave in their attitudes, you got to start younger. So getting into early childhood education and talking about, you know, healthy boundaries and having empathy and putting yourself in other people's shoes and holding other people accountable and taking accountability for your own actions is a big thing that I think.

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I think going into schools to talk about in early childhood education is important. And then at the same time, letting them know, Hey, these are careers that you can get into plant the seeds nice and early. Let them understand the infrastructure around them and say, this is an opportunity for you in the future. If academia isn't a pathway for you.

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Trevor: And even if it is, I still, cause I went to university, then I got into a trade afterwards and. I really believe that I should have taken the trade first and then universe because I'm taking university course now, but it doesn't really matter. What we need to do is really start spreading the knowledge on those things, you know, getting to younger, uh, the younger generation, younger children and talking about life skills, grades is an option, you know, and some of their parents need to understand that. Cause I know you, you, you did a really good, do really good jobs. And when you do talk to the kids, you also talk to the parents as well. What is the difference when you're talking to the two different groups?

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Jamie: So kids are usually pretty receptive, and if you have a really engaging presentation and include kids in your presentation, they're going to be all about it and they get excited. The problem is, is sometimes the parents aren't supportive of this industry because parents actually lack the understanding of this industry, and most parents aren't supportive. Because they're from an older generation, they've been raised very differently and have different attitudes about it. So once you get the parents into a room and you start talking to them about, these are the opportunities in the trades.

0:26

This is the opportunity to climb the corporate ladder. Here's a very excellent opportunity for you not to have to stop. Second mortgage your house because your kids going to get paid to go to school. There's so many different things that you could talk about with parents. And at the end, I usually have parents that come up to me that didn't want anything to do with trades when they came into the presentation and they're leaving going, how do I get into trades? Trevor: How do I get it? Not my kids. How do I get into drugs? Because that's the thing. People don't really understand the value of trades. We make more than doctors, you know, we make more than lawyers. And if it's done right, we can have a really healthy life. But a lot of the times, like you talked about earlier, we get into this unhealthy life through not learning and not actually having coaches and mentors to let us know about, you shouldn't be working 80 hours a week.

0:28

You shouldn't be standing on top of a ladder without. You know, safety support, or, you know, you need a second person there with you. And these are the safety things we always talk about, but we don't always talk about that mental side of it. You know, we, we talked about it earlier where I used to work 80 hours a week and I'd still go and drive home where it's probably worse than if I was drinking and driving where you don't, you know, I'm just too tired and just, okay, just stop. Sleep on the side road. And I've done that too, but it's just not knowing that. Cause nobody ever talked to me about it. Can you talk about some of that stuff that we see in the industry?

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Jamie: Yeah. A lot of times when you get into this industry, you're not really aware of all the expectations that you're going to have. I know I was blindsided by a lot of things because when I did get into the industry, nobody talked to me about the realistic job previews and the issues and the challenges that I was going to face, or, you know, even working out of town. I remember the first time I boomed out, I was literally crapping my pants.

0:32

Cause I was scared to get on a plane and go work out in Fort McMurray in a camp job where I didn't even know if there was going to be another female. And then I, it was, and it was a culture shock for me as well. And as a person who grew up very comfortable doing things with my hands and working with my father and being surrounded by a lot of boys. It was still intimidating for me to go out there. So I think that when you're getting into the skilled trades, talking to kids and telling them that they can travel anywhere in the world, they can, you know, work with their hands, build things, they can live the life of their dreams, but you really have to let them know about the realistic expectations and things they're going to face.

0:34

Otherwise, to me, you're setting them up for failure. Trevor: Yeah. And I think that's a big thing that's, uh, I, it should be a part of the employee as well as hiring process. You know, yes, Parents should talk about it. It should be done in the trade schools and the colleges, but employers need to talk about this too, because there is a lot of mental health, not only in our industries, but in many other industries.

0:36

And it really, if we want to start attracting more people and empowering them, if they know the upfront opportunities as well as upfront challenges. We probably would keep a lot more, because I've heard a lot of people after a year or two getting outta the trades because I didn't expect this. I didn't, I didn't think it was gonna be like this, the long hours or the evenings and the weekends, which happens. Yep. But if you understand what you're getting into, you have a better chance of success and doing that than being blindsided a lot of times.

0:38

Jamie: And there's a, there's a big difference, and I think a lot of people don't understand that there's a big difference between full-time employment. Like if you work at a manufacturing plant or a steel plant and you have full-time employment there, that's one thing. But as a contractor, there's a very different aspect to it. And I, a lot of people don't understand that contract work and getting into contract work can be tough, especially as a parent. And you have to, you know, manage your kids. You have to manage your schedule. You never know when you're on call.

0:40

There's no appropriate daycare that works for those hours. There is a lot of challenges that we need to look at. And thankfully the government's actually stepping up now and recognizing these challenges. And they're actually coming to the forefront now trying to make change. Trevor: Oh, can you tell me a little bit more about that?

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Jamie: Yeah, I participate in a lot of roundtables, and I've been on a couple committees and boards now for, uh, the government trying to move the needle forward. And I mean, everything with the government moves slow as molasses. But the fact that they're even talking about it now is a, is a big deal because I, like I just came back from a two week tour in the U. S. and they don't have the same advocacy. They don't have the same understanding. They don't have the same support from their government. So when I look at Canada versus the U. S., I see. We're very forward thinking in our government here, even though it's taking a lot of time to make those changes. Yeah.

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Trevor: And I think that's important. We need to have a funding. We need to have systems in place, processes in place, and it all comes back to the government helping us because I know I've heard it many, many times. Oh, well, you know, we got less and less people in skilled trades, but I talked to people back in eighties and seventies and was the same thing.

0:46

It was, we need more people in the skilled trades. And I believe if we do have more campaigns, government campaigns where people see that stuff on the radio shows and that people listen to and getting that word out that, that this is an option, you know, cause usually it's carpentry, electrician and a plumber, you know, that's what people know. They don't know much about boiler makers, millwrights, refrigeration technicians and so on and so forth. So how do we get that information out there? And sometimes maybe it's the schools, maybe it's on news programs, but The government backs it a little bit more. I think that there's an opportunity. So this is good, good news, really, really good news

0:48

Jamie: to me. I really think they need to put more hands on careers in early childhood education though. I think they, and see, it's funny because. I talk about my story a lot when I do my keynote speaking engagements. I talk about how I was a student who struggled with learning disabilities, ADHD. I was in alternate education classes and back then that was considered kids with disabilities because they didn't know how to handle us.

0:50

And when I look back at my life and the life of the kids that I was in those classes with, the ones that weren't told about skilled trades and never found their way in this usually ended up. in not such great circumstances. I have friends who ended up dead or in jail or with serious addiction issues and they ended up being the youth that ended up at risk because nobody told them. That this was an option. And to me, I think if we can get into the schools and do early childhood education and talk about these as being careers and make it normal, don't make it like, Oh, this is a career that you, you know, it's tough. It's hard work. If we just normalize it and, and explain to kids that this is a career pathway, I think one will have a lot more, a lot less at risk youth that don't know.

0:52

And dropping out of high school, because those kids that I went to school with the ones that are still here are now the richest millionaires. Company owners all because they found their way into skilled trades. And you know, it's funny cause we were the dumb kids in school and now the smart kids in school actually work for some of the dumb kids that now own companies. Right. So I think that this is a really important message to get out to schools. Cause I think that this will help that at risk sector that, and ADHD and that is on the rise. Not a lot of people want to sit still in an office anymore. People are starting to want to use their hands again. So. This is a great career.

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Trevor: Well, sitting in an office is hard work too. People just don't say it's hard work. It is hard work. I've done it before. Jamie: Oh gosh. It's really hard work, but I mean, some of us just don't have the capacity to sit still for that long. So, and that's what it is. Or like for me, for example, I really struggle with my ADHD makes it almost impossible for me to do administrative tasks and everybody's like, well, that's so easy to do.

0:56

Well, it's easy for you because your brain works that way. My brain doesn't work that way. So it gives me anxiety. Trevor: Yeah. So everyone has a different personality. Everybody works a different way. You work and you've talked at lots of different schools around Ontario, even around North America. One of the things that I've been hearing more and more of over the last decade is there's less and less skilled trades in the schools.

0:58

They're pulling out the HVAC, they're pulling out the electrical automotive. What's your thoughts on that? And cause you talked with all these schools and how, how is that affecting the skilled trade industry and how can maybe the government or the schools help with that? Jamie: You know, the problem with that is they've taken practical knowledge out of the schools in a lot of places.

1:00

They are starting to put it in, but to me. I think that we need to lobby government for change because I think practical skills should be in schools. I think that compulsory credits should include construction. Automotive. I think that they really need to revamp the system and say, hey, we don't need to have all these programs here anymore that are doing absolutely nothing to help society. Why don't we replace something like, you know, Do we all need to understand Shakespeare nowadays, or can we, do we have to do world religions, or can we go in and do a construction class so we know how to do the basic maintenance on our homes, or the big, like, imagine how much less stressful traffic would be if people actually knew to just get a flat tire and push their car over to the side instead of Stopping traffic or if people knew how to change their flat tire on the fly instead of holding up traffic, waiting for the CAA to come and help them.

1:02

I mean, these are practical life skills that should be embedded in our education system. And I think we need to really lobby with government to get that back in there because shop class is important. Everybody should have those skills. Trevor: And I agree with that, that we need to have, it has to change because it's been the same way for so long.

1:04

Even when I was in school, it's still the same courses, all the same things. And as has been benefiting. 'cause the world has changed. Yeah. But how did a education system not change? So that's good. I, I like that. What are one or two ways that people can lobby or make it an impact on maybe getting more skilled trades or shop class in, in schools? Jamie: Well, it's, it's gonna take a lot of advocacy and, and lobbying to do that. I don't, I don't know how many times you have to go up to the hill to talk and lobby government and reach out to your. Whatever MPs and MPPs. Um, but I think just like really talking to them and trying to get them to understand that is going to be a valuable thing.

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But the other problem is, is that as much as we want to put skilled trades back in schools, the problem is we don't have enough educators getting into the schools to actually promote those programs. And it's very hard for our, to teach those programs because I, I go into school sometimes and they have a tech teacher that. Has no idea anything about tech and they're literally getting the kids to watch YouTube channels and, and, and write tests because they don't know how to teach tech. If we don't have tech teachers to teach these kids, what are they really going to learn? But we can't get tech teachers into the schools because nobody wants to leave their career in the trades to go back to school to become a tech teacher.

1:08

Because if you're teaching in a high school, you have to go back to university. And we're not all fit to go to university. We suck at it. So it's a multifaceted issue. I mean, we need tech teachers. We need to create a better program to bring in tech teachers. They need to give tech teachers the same money that they're going to make in the trades, or you're not going to see very much transition over. And then it's about getting money to put these shops in schools. I've been to schools where they have an entire shop set up and they've been locked and not used because they can't find teachers to teach the program. So there's, And then there's other schools that don't even have it, or they have equipment that's so old that it's not even practical to use anymore.

1:10

Trevor: Yeah. And I, and I've seen that in many different schools. I've seen a lot of equipment getting pulled out because of all the programs are not very successful and nobody wants to take them. And it's a, it's an option, you know, maybe it should be an option. Maybe it's a mandatory credit while you're in school. So that, that is some of the things that are going on, but I love that, that you're working towards helping this. Cause you're making this movement and you, you have a lot of people help you and you help them, you know, you participate to try to grow this. What are some ways that we can really help the workforce development?

1:12

Cause I know there's, I'm seeing more and more women coming into the trades, but it's still a big challenge. Like I have, uh, women taking my, my courses, my refrigeration courses, and we talk and they say, it's still a challenge out there. Like it was still like the 1990s in some ways where Guys don't want to work with them because they're female. And that packaging that comes up that you would think that's not there anymore because we're in 2024, it still happens. What are some of the things that you do? Cause I know you coach and mentor a lot of women out there that are in the skill trades to keep in, to keep going, to fight through. What are some tips you could give to them who are listening?

1:14

Jamie: Well, one of the things is I, I don't like to identify as a woman in trades. I'm a skilled trades professional. That's how I want to be identified as I I'm also like, I'm a journeyman iron worker. I don't say I'm a journey person. I worked hard for that freaking status. I didn't go to school to get a bachelorette degree, so I'm not going to call myself, you know, So, but I think that narrative needs to change. But I also think that what I want people to understand is people say, well, we can't get into skill trades cause it's not a good environment for women. Women aren't strong enough. Well, there are some men that are just as small as women. There are some men that are, you know, not as strong. What I want people to see is that this has nothing to do with how you identify.

1:16

This has everything to do with your attitude, how you feel. This career in sports, Skill trades is not any different than any other career. People say, Oh, there's more bias and harassment and everything. No, this isn't a skill trade issue. This is a human issue. And what I want, what I really want people to start focusing on is that if we want to promote an inclusive work environment, we have to have an inclusive effort of promoting. So there's a saying that I love and it says, if you are intentionally inclusive, you are unintentionally exclusive. And for me, I think there's so many different silos of people that are trying to raise power in this sector and raise power in this sector, and there's so many different silos, and I think the only way we're actually going to make positive change is if we stop looking at our differences and start looking at our abilities.

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And to me, that's really important. Who cares how you identify? Can you do the job? Trevor: I want to take a minute to talk about my upcoming programs. There's so many great things happening at Refrigeration Mentor. We've got awesome compressor programs. We've got awesome supermarket programs and signature CO2 programs.

1:20

These are game changing. These are getting the results you're looking for. When you take these programs, you're going to be able to start Implementing and applying the things that we talk about in these programs, really helping your customer out, helping your business out and helping yourself out by having that confidence, be able to finish jobs quicker, troubleshoot faster, reduced callbacks. This is going to help you get to your next level. It's going to get you the results. I look forward to seeing you in these programs. Head to the refrigerationmentor. com website and check out the courses page because this is where you're going to take yourself to the next level and becoming that elite technician.

1:22

Getting a bigger workforce into skilled trades is a big challenge by everyone. That, that, that's the thing. Cause electrician, I talked to electrician, we need more electricians. We need more carpenters. We need more scaffolders. And so there's a big thing. What are some of the things like contractors can start doing to To get more people maybe engaged or involved because we talk about the school trying to get the schools and we talk about, uh, industry, but what, what could contractors maybe do to maybe, uh, get newer people to want to take a refrigeration trade or, uh, be a mill writer or a boiler maker? What are some of the things that contractors could do?

1:24

Jamie: What contractors need to do is really get some of their employees and go into schools, do career fairs, do hands on projects and give kids co op opportunities. That's one of the things that I see lacking so bad is that we have employers that say they have this There's a shortage of skilled trade workers, and they're not, they're not even working with the school programs. If you work with the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program in, here in Ontario, you can literally have a student come out in grade 11, in grade 12, and do co op with you. And if you give them that opportunity, it's a, it's a volunteer opportunity, you don't have to pay them, you can pay them, you are giving them up to 400 hours towards their apprenticeship.

1:26

Wow. You're giving them experience. Um, and I want to make sure that career in the trades so that when they walk out of high school, they're ready to go into a career in the trades. And all you have to do is open that door and take them on. But I don't see employers taking these career opportunities, offering the co ops, working with schools, attending events like Skills Ontario, where they get to see the cream of the crop, kids who are passionate, who want to be there to go and recruit them right from there. But I also, I have a lot of kids that come to me and they're like, you encouraged me to get into trades and I, now I'm on this path and I can't get a job because no one will hire me. So employers need to give those kids their first chance as well. They're not doing that. I understand it's expensive to train, but if you're not taking them in and training them, then you're losing that talent altogether.

1:28

Trevor: What do you think are some of the excuses that are coming from with some of those people not doing this? Cause I've heard it before. Well, there's insurance risks. If I get someone from, that's just an excuse. I'm pretty sure. But what are some of the things that you've seen out there and why it's not happening and what can we change to make that happen? Jamie: Well, there are industries I like, I wouldn't recommend bringing a 15 year old grade 10 student or 11 student into like a manufacturing and like a big steel industrial plant or a dangerous working environment. But there's no reason why they can't be, you know, working with Habitat for Humanity or working at a shop.

1:30

Even if they're just pushing a broom and helping cleaning up, they're learning about a shop environment. They're learning the banter and everything that's going on. going on. And I don't, I don't see that happening. And I think the insurance reasons are a lot too. Or I've seen employers that will take in say a young co op female student and then just get her washing rags in a, in a shop or not giving them the opportunities to actually expand and get that knowledge. And that's a huge problem that needs to change.

1:32

Trevor: And that's people not even in industry. I even see that in industry where you have a journeyman and an apprentice, all they're doing is carrying tools or. Or they're moving ladders or they're going around and flipping all the filters and belts where they should be actually learning the technical stuff. So after they've done their four year apprenticeship, they know at least how to go and do a service job. Because I've seen this countless times where they go through the system and then they don't know how to do the job. And then now the, the contractor's upset that they went through the schooling system and they had them for four years and now they can't go do their own service calls.

1:34

Uh, but there's, there's That's the responsibility of the contractor to do some of the training too. Jamie: Here's a perfect example. I worked with a guy, um, we worked at the OBG power plant and I worked there for a couple of years with him and the entire time they had him doing safety and fire watch. Now, he didn't really try to do anything else.

1:36

He didn't go forward and say like, I want to learn something, put me somewhere else. He just went with it. And he ended up, Spending his whole apprenticeship doing that. And then what happened was everybody knows OBG shut down. So the company that he worked for no longer had the job there. So he had to go back to the hall. And the first job he went out on was a job where they gave him a blueprint and told him to go do a job. And he had never done anything but safety and fire watch. So he didn't even know as a full certified journeyman ironworker, he didn't have the knowledge or experience to do anything else, but he was certified.

1:38

And that happens a lot. I see holes in the system all over. There's no mandated apprenticeship and they're not following up on that. And then I see this a lot, especially as a contractor is that you get your nepotism, your favoritism, and you get those clicks of companies that work together. And then the people that work within those companies only ever do the same repetitive tasks and they don't learn a well rounded apprenticeship. And then when something does happen or that company closes down, They're kind of in the dark and then they leave because they don't have the the knowledge and experience that they get bullied for it too.

1:40

Trevor: Yeah. Jamie: It's sad.

1:42

Trevor: Yeah. And I see that even in our industry where I had a conversation here already today about people going through the system and just installing heat pumps. Which is, you know, we need that and it's great, but now they do their four years is installing heat pumps. Now the same thing, you need to go get a job at another contractor where you actually have to go do some technical work and service work and work on a rack or something like that. They just don't have the skills because they haven't been taught it.

1:44

And I think this comes back to coaching, mentoring and training. All that stuff in the workplace is very, very important. And I really think If we can start developing that and empowering the workforce internally, we can start to push it out a bit more. Um, what are you seeing for, um, the uptake? Uh, when you go do these talks, when you go do a keynote speaks, what is kind of the, the feeling from the, some of the people afterwards that come up and talk to you? I know, I know the parents come on sometimes say, Hey, listen, how do I get into a skill train? But what are some of the other, um, organization saying, like, how can they get involved? I guess, With you or, or how can they help, uh, their workforce grow?

1:46

Jamie: So usually the organizations aren't at the schools that I'm talking to. I mostly have the students and the educators and I oftentimes have educators. In fact, I just got invited to an educator conference cause they want me to go in and talk to educators about how to start recognizing the kids that are the underdogs in the school or the kids that would do really well in the trades and stop, like they want it, they want me to, to.

1:48

Sort of educate them on how to identify these kids, how to find their talents, their hidden talents, and then how to push them into a career that those talents would be, you know, amplified. And I think that right now, so I talk very vulnerably. So when I go to schools, I talk about having ADHD and dealing with, um, the different issues. And one of the things that people don't understand about kids with ADHD and for anybody here that has ADHD, you might get this. A lot of people don't, is that. People with ADHD, we suffer with something called rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and we have a really, really hard time with rejection, and so when we're in school, and we're getting, um, rejected by, say, a teacher because we're not doing well on a test, or we don't understand certain things in certain ways, and somebody's explaining to us, and we feel like we're annoying them, we literally shut down, and we go into this, like, depression and rejection feeling, and we shut down, and a lot of times that's where people Um, and then they end up taking some pretty bad choices.

1:50

That's how you end up with a lot of people at risk to I know I was one of them. Um, but in order to change that dialogue, we need to teach teachers how to recognize these kids and how to say, Hey, I recognize that you might not be an academic. You struggled with these issues. But what do you what about going over here and trying this? And that's where you really push those shop classes. And then I come into the school and I talked to the kids. And it's insane because The kids that come up to me at the end, I have kids that come up to me in tears at the end that say, Thank you, I didn't know this about myself. You've just informed me of why I always feel rejected.

1:52

I've always wanted to do a career doing this trades thing, but nobody ever promotes that. I've had kids that come up to me crying because their parents won't even let them get into trades. In fact, one girl, her parents said they're going to take away her allowance and her phone. If she decided to take a construction class in school, so when I talk to kids, I'm like, you got to remember this is also your life and you have to make choices that are going to be healthy for you and you might not be able to make them while you're under this roof, but here's some seeds for later on, Trevor: and I think that's, that's, that's good because we do need to, they do need to recognize that same with those educators because they don't know either, right?

1:54

Nobody has taught them and I'm really proud of you being able to go out and talk to them about that and educate them on those telltale signs. On how to move, uh, move those children or those people into that, those right career path or direction, because I think that's important because once again, it's, you gotta, you gotta recognize it and then implement it, right. And then you need those coaches and mentors to do that stuff. What are some of the things on the innovation side that you're seeing that is helping motivate maybe people to get into the industries?

1:56

Jamie: Well, one of the things I'm really excited about right now, and it has some good and some bad in it, is that last year when the government finally announced that they are implementing a compulsory tech class in grade 9 or 10 for students. Trevor: Oh.

1:58

Jamie: Yeah, so last year, Minister McNaughton actually announced that before he stepped down. But the fact that they're going to do that step to put that in classes is very important. But the other struggle is we don't have the teachers to fill in for those positions. But the negative side of that is they're also considering things like, uh, an AutoCAD or other classes that aren't actually tech like hands on career in tech. So they're, they're, because they don't have the teachers to teach the tech. So that's one of the things that I'm really seeing turning around though now in some schools. So that is a positive thing. I

2:00

Trevor: think that's a great idea because if there is mandatory class that you have to take, it might influence a few people and really it only takes a few people. To influence some of their friends to continue on. And because this is a very beneficial trade, like you, you know, you've very successful in multiple trades, myself, the same, and we've got good careers. We've got good lives. We, we travel the world. We do the things that we want all because of trades. And I know more and more people, they want, want that type of, um, comfort and freedom because of the work we did.

2:02

And it's hard work though. What we did is hard work. To get a journeyman ticket. It is not super easy. Even if you're doing the bare minimum, it's still hard. Uh, but how do we get those, you know, what I'm always trying to do is how do we motivate them to want to do a little bit more, get a little better and encourage other people to get, get into the different trades, because it's very valuable to our society. We didn't have trades people. We wouldn't have everything we're doing here today. Um, so, and I'm always an advocate for that. What, what's next for you? What, what's next for made in the trades?

2:04

Jamie: Uh, so primarily my focus right now is still advocating to younger generations. So we just, uh, we just ended up finalizing our coloring book series. So we have five coloring books out now, but we've also created, um, customizable coloring books. So what you can do is we have 90 different skill traits featured in our coloring books, but you can go online and pick out whatever careers that you want for your specific, you know, coloring books. So say, you know, Like, uh, the electricians oftentimes will get our coloring books and then customize with all the different electrical type careers or the ones that work closely together and then co brand it.

2:06

So it's, it's pretty cool. And because of that, they're getting it into early childhood education. And I think that's really important. So they're giving it out at like kids picnics or they're even bringing it to community centers or, um, um, child and youth centers or what do you call that? Um, Children's aid even is getting involved in stuff. So it's pretty cool. So right now I'm, I'm still focusing on that early childhood education, but I'm also expanding because now I have companies that are reaching out to me and they're being like, can you come and do a keynote and talk to us about how you go into schools, how you present to kids. So I get to do workshops on how to create presentations that are engaging enough to entertain these kids and then get them interested.

2:08

Trevor: Oh, how can people find out about the book? First of all, like how can people, cause that sounds pretty cool. Okay. How can someone get that, those books? Jamie: I would say just reach out to me at my website, madeinthetrades. com. And then I can direct right now. We're doing some maintenance on our kick ass careers website to add all the books.

2:10

So it's a lot of work. So it's, it's, it's. Trevor: It's kind of down

2:12

Jamie: right now. Trevor: It happens. And so, so, so that's awesome. What about, so how can people, like if they're a corporate company and they want to hire you, how can they get involved with what you're doing? Because I know you're doing a lot of cool things. I continue to see on social media, things are growing, things are happening.

2:14

How can corporations get a hold of you and find out a bit more how you can help them? Jamie: Yeah, they can reach out to me on again, uh, at made in the trade. com. I'm very proactive. I will talk to anybody. I love volunteering. I love brainstorming ideas. I like giving people ideas, but I also like going out and doing workshops and, and, and keynotes to talk about the, the things that are changing in the country and how, you know, Cool.

2:16

My job is because I, I get to walk home every day. I mean, in construction, I get to walk home and be like, I built that. And that's cool. But my work in, in promoting create careers and trades is like, I'm now building people too. And that's, I don't know how to express that, but it's the most empowering feeling because building material is one thing, but actually building and changing the life of a human being, especially from a, an early age is, is, Trevor: Yeah, I love that.

2:18

I love that. You also said that you're going to be on TV. Jamie: Yeah,

2:20

Trevor: congratulations. So what can you tell it? Talk a little bit about that, or Jamie: I sure can. So tomorrow. Well, I've already done my first filming, but tomorrow I'm meeting again with TV. Oh, they're doing a kid's show. So they're picking 26 different skilled trades, and they have little Children's that are little kids that are the And they're going to be meeting with 26 different skilled trades professionals to learn about their job.

2:22

And then they're turning it into a 26 episode TV show. Trevor: Awesome. That sounds super cool.

2:24

Jamie: Yeah. So I have my own episode, so it's kind of exciting. That is Trevor: awesome. When does that release? Do you know?

2:26

Jamie: I don't know. I'm filming tomorrow. Trevor: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, Jamie, thank you so much. I always love chatting with you, learning from you, because this is a, this is something that we got to continue to work at, you know, our workforce development.

2:28

Teaching the schools, teaching teachers, government. It takes all of us to make a difference, right? And we got to do it differently than we did it before, right? Because the world has changed. And I think what you're doing is amazing. I want to thank you so much for taking the time. Jamie: And thanks for having me here.

2:30

I appreciate it. Thanks for all what you're doing too. Trevor: I want to thank you so much for hanging out with me and the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a comment. Let me know what were your key highlights. What you took away from myself or my guests, as well as if you have not subscribed yet, head over to Apple podcast or Spotify and subscribe.

2:32

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