0:02

On this episode of the Reset

0:04

Our Podcast, I bring you Jill

0:06

Miller. So,

0:10

I hope you all know that

0:12

part of my passion is

0:14

giving you lifestyle tools, especially

0:17

highlighting what we need to

0:19

do as women after 40. How

0:23

do we adapt to all the neurochemical

0:25

changes that are going on in our

0:27

body? This

0:29

conversation with Jill Miller is

0:31

literally going to blow your

0:34

mind. It blew my mind

0:36

because I never realized that

0:38

as estrogen went down, we

0:41

see dramatic changes in our fascial

0:43

system. Now, you're going to hear

0:46

in this conversation, Jill is going

0:48

to talk about exactly what fascia

0:50

is. It is one

0:53

of the most abundant tissues in

0:55

our body. It connects every muscle,

0:58

every ligament, to every

1:00

organ. We are completely wrapped in

1:02

this fascia. And check this

1:04

out. Our queen,

1:06

or I like to call

1:08

her our diva hormone, estradiol,

1:11

stimulates flexibility of

1:14

fascia. And

1:16

when estradiol goes away, there is

1:18

a massive shift to the fascial

1:20

system. It could be as simple

1:23

as it makes us feel

1:25

more stiff or as complicated

1:28

as it contributes to bloating.

1:31

This is really interesting. We had a whole

1:33

conversation at the back end about bloating

1:35

and what we can do

1:37

through touch

1:39

and not only self-massage,

1:42

we talked a lot about

1:44

using tune-up balls and different types of balls

1:47

to reactivate the fascia

1:49

so that not only are you

1:51

less injury-prone, not only are you

1:54

less stiff, but it'll take the

1:57

bloating down that so many of us

1:59

experience. This conversation blew

2:01

me away and I think you

2:03

all are gonna absolutely find so

2:05

many things in here that are

2:07

gonna help Improve not

2:10

only your health today, but set you up

2:12

for loving the body that you live in

2:14

as you age Now a

2:17

couple things about Jill is she is a fascia

2:19

expert. She has 30 years

2:21

of corrective movement expertise She

2:23

is big in the yoga movement She

2:26

has created what she calls

2:28

self-care fitness programs Have

2:31

you heard of the yoga toon up balls or the

2:33

role model is one of her books? These

2:35

were created by Jill. This woman

2:38

is a powerhouse. She has not

2:40

only brought us to Huge

2:43

resources the role model and body

2:45

by breath We will link

2:47

both of those in there But she

2:50

also has a very specific idea

2:52

about how to use different types

2:55

of balls To be

2:57

able to release fascia You'll

2:59

you'll see I talked to her about

3:01

the foam rollers not a fan. They

3:03

hurt so much She'll explain why that

3:06

is not as beneficial as

3:08

using some of these softer balls Either

3:11

way you look at this this conversation.

3:13

I'm not sure has ever been had

3:15

around hormone Changes and fascia and I'm

3:18

so excited to bring it to you

3:21

So Jill Miller, what do you need

3:23

to know about fascia as you go

3:25

through the menopausal years? I

3:28

hope you enjoy it as much as I did and again

3:30

as always if you love this send this out into the

3:32

world because so Many

3:34

women are struggling with the

3:36

symptoms of perimenopause and menopause

3:39

and this conversation Needs

3:41

to be heard by those women.

3:43

So as always enjoy Welcome

3:47

to the resetter podcast This

3:49

podcast is all about empowering

3:51

you to believe in

3:54

yourself Again, if you

3:56

have a passion for learning if you're looking

3:58

to be in control of your

4:00

health and take your power back, this

4:03

is the podcast for you. Hey,

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Hey, recenters, as we step into the

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8:11

Let me let me just start by welcoming

8:13

you. I'm so excited to have this conversation

8:15

with you. Awake late as

8:17

I've been a fan for a long

8:19

time and this is really an excellent

8:21

opportunity for me to talk with you

8:23

about things I'm interested in to. I

8:26

love this idea that there is a

8:28

hormonal connection to faster. I had.

8:30

You know, I've looked at the hormones

8:32

from every angle I possibly can. I've

8:35

never looked at it from a faster angle.

8:38

So. Could we start just

8:40

with so that we feel everybody

8:42

and what is Sasha? And.

8:45

Why is it so damn important? Because I feel

8:47

like it's is one part of the body that

8:49

does not. Get enough credit

8:51

for it's impact on our physical

8:53

or mental health. So let's start

8:56

with unpacking. Sasha. Yes,

8:58

We will be here all day,

9:00

unpack and faster because says it

9:02

is essentially would tax you together.

9:05

Sansa is your seem system. Fassa.

9:07

Is a fibrous and fluid

9:09

network that strings every cell

9:11

of your body to gather.

9:13

It's the spends every muscle

9:15

cell and binds and together

9:17

it's what help your organs

9:19

to. Be. In float

9:22

with in your body. There.

9:24

Are. There are

9:26

some a different components that comprise Fast Said

9:28

that. I liked it. Simply.

9:30

Say it's your seems system. It's

9:33

the states is that cold everything together but

9:35

it also gives your form and safe. And.

9:38

It's it's impacts every

9:40

single. System. Of the

9:42

body, it runs through every system of the

9:44

body. It contains. Every system of the body.

9:47

And. So there are many different aspects that we

9:49

can die Then to isn't missing some of

9:51

the more same as aspects of assets. Are.

9:54

It's. Mechanical. Aspect:

9:56

So folks like Tom My of

9:58

the Ross Institute. anatomy train

10:00

have brought into focus

10:03

how this fascia, essentially

10:05

this stitching fabric links

10:08

muscles together from end to

10:10

end. And so it's really

10:12

been able to translate well

10:14

into performance and to functional

10:16

movement. But you know, fascia

10:18

is also a hormonal tissue. I'm

10:21

just I'll just tease that it's also a bed

10:25

for nerve tissue.

10:28

It houses more sensory nerve endings

10:30

than your skin or your

10:32

eyes. Yeah, so we can look

10:34

at fascia. Once you look at fascia,

10:36

you have to look at every

10:39

area of the body and get

10:41

really interested in this connecting tissue

10:44

that kind of houses all the things. So

10:46

where do you want to start? Yeah,

10:49

you know, you know, what it reminds

10:51

me of is 10 years ago, I

10:53

became obsessed with detoxing. And I was

10:55

like, Oh my gosh, I can see

10:57

how toxins accumulate in the body as

10:59

you get older. I read some really

11:01

interesting research on how when your hormones

11:03

go through a massive change like they

11:05

do during perimenopause, that certain heavy metals

11:07

like lead start to leach out into

11:09

your circulatory system, they go up into

11:11

your brain affect your brain. So I

11:13

was like, if we were having this

11:15

conversation 10 years ago, I would have

11:17

been like all about detox. And

11:20

then I realized something really important, which

11:22

was that the lymph system

11:24

has to be flowing well in

11:26

order for the detox organs to

11:29

do their job. I

11:31

feel like the same thing about

11:33

fascia, we get so clued in

11:35

and on like, I got to

11:37

eat certain foods to improve my liver or

11:39

I need to repair my gut. But

11:42

we organs don't work

11:44

in isolation. They work with

11:46

these connective tissues, lymph being

11:48

one nervous system being one

11:51

circulatory system being one and

11:53

fascia being the other one.

11:56

And I don't understand why we don't

11:58

talk about it enough. yes,

12:00

I hear what you're saying, it holds

12:02

everything together, but there's also

12:05

a communication that happens and

12:07

when scars happen and injuries happen

12:09

and the fascia tightens, it affects

12:12

everything in the body. So

12:14

can you talk about how fascia

12:16

is this communication system in our

12:18

body? Yeah, so

12:20

I think we can start

12:22

really gradually. So I already talked about the

12:24

big span of the tissue, right, from cell

12:27

to skin and everything in between, but

12:29

your fascia is comprised of a

12:31

number of different cells. A

12:35

number of them reside in fascia

12:37

and a number of different cells

12:39

traffic through your fascia, but the

12:41

resident cells, the primary resident cells

12:43

are called fibroblasts

12:46

and these fibroblasts are like

12:48

little miniature spiders that tend

12:51

and mend the fibers of

12:53

your net, of this fascial

12:55

net. So fibroblasts

12:57

are fibers of fibers or collagen,

12:59

many different types of collagen, reticulin,

13:01

elastin. So there are many different

13:03

elastic or tensional fibers that

13:05

comprise this fascia. And so for example,

13:08

when we have a wound or an

13:10

injury or a surgery, in order

13:13

for blood vessels and nerves to

13:15

get back to the site of

13:17

injury, the fascia sites migrate to

13:19

the area and they start spitting

13:21

out collagen and elastin in order

13:23

to build bridges from one

13:26

side of the wound to the other side of the wound.

13:28

And so they end up creating the scaffolding that allows then

13:31

blood vessels to get in there for all the macrophages

13:33

to come in and do the cleanup. And

13:36

then eventually for nerve endings to

13:38

be able to supply the whatever

13:41

is needed there, whether it's musculoskeletal

13:43

activity or circulation

13:46

improvements to the

13:49

nervous system network. So we

13:52

have these fibroblasts. And by

13:54

the way, the fibroblasts are going to be very

13:56

interesting to you because they're the ones that are

13:58

sensitive to estrogen. They have estrogen. receptors all

14:00

over them. And we

14:02

also had this other cell called

14:05

fascicites. Fascicites were located

14:07

or they were discovered just around 10

14:09

years ago by a researcher in Italy

14:11

and Dr. Carla Stecco, an amazing researcher.

14:13

Your people should look into her. And

14:16

these fascicites are the

14:18

cells that spit out the correct

14:21

chemistry for the fluid environment of fascia.

14:23

So just like your joints have synovial

14:26

fluid, right? Synovial fluid is a really

14:28

popular and known substance that even most

14:30

people have heard about synovial fluid that

14:32

grease for the joints well your fascia

14:34

has grease too and that grease is

14:37

hyaluronone. And so the

14:39

fascicites spit out the right quantities of

14:41

hyaluronone to allow your tissues to move

14:43

around each other because once if your

14:45

tissues don't glide within themselves they get

14:48

sticky, they get stiff, they get stuck,

14:50

they limit movement, they hurt. And this

14:52

is what propagates movement dysfunction, this is

14:55

what propagates stiffness, this

14:57

helps to contribute to cell death, to

14:59

sarcopenia and so many other things. So

15:02

these fascicites are really important. There

15:04

are also, do you want to

15:06

ask something? No, you go. I have a question

15:08

about estrogen but go. Yeah, I want to answer.

15:10

I know everybody's got a question about estrogen. I

15:12

know. I have a lot of questions on that.

15:15

But you really asked about a

15:17

communication, right? You asked about, oh

15:19

this communication. So the communication, I

15:21

think we can probably think

15:23

about the nervous systems load in the

15:26

fascial tissues. So there are 250 million

15:30

sensory neurons that end

15:33

in your fascial tissues. So

15:35

this is a gigantic feedback loop

15:38

and this is happening within

15:40

muscles in the muscle Spindles,

15:44

where these are the stretch receptors. But

15:46

they're also happening in Golgi tendon organs.

15:48

but they're also happening at the tendon.

15:50

They're also happening in many different layers.

15:52

We have these rufini endings, for example,

15:54

that are sensory neurons that are living

15:57

inside your fagular.. They're living inside a

15:59

lot of different areas. there are fascia

16:01

within the fatty tissue of your body

16:03

called the superficial fashioned membrane and so

16:05

we have it: a propensity of sensory

16:07

neurons. For. Over a body

16:09

with an are doing capsules is or the putin

16:12

the and corpuscles. So. He gets

16:14

really interesting when we start, so

16:16

like dive into these smaller and

16:18

smaller bits of the greater. Whole.

16:21

it's like it's own ecosystem.

16:24

Is. What is your ecosystem? My we

16:26

only years of living and fast as

16:28

world. Ah oh my

16:30

gosh. Okay, so let's go back to

16:33

estrogen because this is one thing that

16:35

I've been deeply thinking about is when

16:37

Esther die all goes away. All.

16:40

The things that as to dial

16:42

supported great brain health, cardiovascular health

16:44

or I it's more than just

16:46

releasing an egg every month. That.

16:49

There are these requirements of different

16:51

tissues in our body for ask

16:54

for dial so once after dials

16:56

gone. Because. She's supposed to

16:58

go way throughout. Men A pause. What?

17:01

We're left with these parts of our bodies

17:03

a don't function as well because it doesn't

17:05

have the. Chemistry to be

17:07

able to perform the way it's

17:09

a it's supposed to. See.

17:11

What happens with Sasha when you go

17:13

through menopause? If if there's an estrogen

17:16

receptor side in there and now I'm

17:18

not giving it as sturgeon? What happens

17:20

to fascia? Yeah. So let

17:22

me describe what what happens on a monthly

17:24

basis Prior awesome and upon prior to Pyrena

17:27

pause and then I think gonna get really

17:29

clear. What? Happens on dude him

17:31

and applause and it's withdrawal of us

17:33

estrogen from your body. So.

17:35

That this research was done by

17:37

Carl a second were mentioned before

17:40

and katrina say day this whole

17:42

group in Padua. And

17:44

they. Presented.

17:46

As Research Death or Sasha Research Congress I'm

17:48

a real thousand or so. I got about

17:50

one assists. And. And

17:52

and twenty twenty one when

17:54

she started talking about. Female.

17:57

sasha and the relationship

18:00

estrogen, progesterone. The room

18:02

was just, I don't think anybody breathed for, you

18:04

know, the 20 minutes of our presentation because we

18:06

couldn't believe that somebody

18:09

was presenting research that validated

18:11

this bizarre, you know,

18:13

experience of living in a female

18:15

body and how many changes occur

18:18

all the time. But here's its

18:20

impact on fascia. So we become,

18:23

we have these estrogen receptors

18:25

on the fibroblasts

18:28

and when we have our

18:30

estrogen peaks, there's two estrogen peaks in the cycle,

18:32

right? You have peak one like between 10 and

18:34

14 days and you have second peak between

18:37

20, 24 days. When

18:39

we have these estrogen peaks, the

18:43

fibroblasts start to create

18:46

more type 3 collagen. Now I'm

18:48

sorry, there are dozens of types

18:50

of collagen and this is not

18:53

even something I could give you

18:55

a lecture on, but the type

18:57

3 collagen is the looser, more

18:59

elastic collagen and it starts

19:02

to get rid of

19:04

or eat away type 1 collagen.

19:06

Type 1 is the firmer, stronger,

19:08

tighter, more rigid collagen. So

19:10

as you start to peak at these

19:13

10 to 14 during ovulation, your fascial

19:15

body becomes looser. It becomes

19:18

more open. It becomes more

19:20

flexible. You are less rigid. And

19:22

so in that looseness, that might sound really good

19:25

if you're like a stiff person, but it makes

19:27

you accident and injury prone. Especially

19:30

if you're like a

19:32

female soccer player and you're, this

19:35

is when we're at higher risk

19:38

of having these connective tissue or

19:40

ligament strains. And then

19:42

the second peak at that 20 to

19:44

24 day mark, again, there's an increase

19:46

in estrogen in the system. We become

19:48

again, hyper flexible in our connective tissues.

19:51

And this is like a, not an

19:53

overnight thing. This is like a progressive

19:55

thing and then it wanes again and

19:57

you become, you become those

19:59

looser. connective tissues are then cannibalized by

20:01

the fibroblasts and they replace them with type 1.

20:04

So we have this constant shifting of

20:07

loose stiff

20:09

and it's helpful to know, especially

20:11

if you're extra estrogen sensitive, especially

20:13

if you're somebody who suffers great

20:15

pains, you know, right before period

20:17

at that second surge, I

20:20

think it's really helpful to know, well,

20:22

maybe I shouldn't be lifting super heavy

20:24

on those days. You know, I can

20:26

lift, I can walk, but I maybe

20:28

not want to try my PR during

20:30

those days just because of that extra

20:32

extensibility of the tissues. So

20:35

one thing that I've looked at when we

20:37

look at working out for the cycle is

20:40

I think there's a lot of

20:42

conversation right now about how important

20:44

building muscle is for women in

20:46

general, but especially for women as

20:49

they go through menopause or perimenopause.

20:51

So let's use perimenopause as an

20:53

example. If I'm

20:55

an ovulation, yes, I'm more

20:57

flexible according to the theory

20:59

that you just gave, but

21:02

maybe then I could do

21:04

higher weights in a slower

21:06

motion. I'm thinking more like

21:08

hit training where you're jumping

21:10

that or you're doing very quick

21:13

reps that actually is going to

21:15

be more challenging during

21:17

these peaks of estrogen. So

21:20

would you say given that

21:22

you become more flexible, that

21:24

a workout just needs to

21:27

be slower and not jeopardizing

21:30

your ability to have

21:32

a quick turn of the ankle or a

21:35

quick pull of the tendon because

21:37

you are more flexible during that pull?

21:41

Yeah, I mean I would say that

21:43

during those times doing long

21:45

held static stretches like with a yoga

21:48

class, that is where you might actually

21:50

be at more risk because

21:52

you're so extra stretchy that

21:54

you could end up deforming those

21:57

connective tissue junctions because

21:59

you're You're so extra stretchy. So

22:02

it's like, I like what you're saying about the

22:04

weight training. And you know,

22:06

I do weight training myself. I'm not a personal trainer.

22:08

I come from the yoga space. But

22:11

I personally am extremely mobile and

22:13

on the hypermobile spectrum. So I

22:15

tend to concentrate on like you

22:17

exactly what you're describing. But

22:20

I don't I don't necessarily blanket statement

22:22

that for all bodies, because I think

22:25

the number one thing that you said there was

22:27

slow. And to me, that

22:29

means I'm going to be really investing my

22:31

awareness in these movements. So

22:34

nothing, nothing when we are

22:36

at our most flexi or at our

22:38

most facially fragile, I don't think calling

22:41

phoning it in is a good idea. I think we

22:43

have to be extremely mindful or I like

22:46

to what one of the things that I

22:48

talked about in my new book Body by Breath is my

22:50

body sinks in fields that you really want

22:52

to dial into both your proprioception, the

22:54

feedback you're getting from your body, as

22:56

well as the introception, the feeling of

22:58

your physiology, the perception of your physiology,

23:01

and pay attention, very, very

23:03

good attention to all aspects of your

23:05

movements so that you don't increase your

23:08

risk of injury or harm. So

23:10

you know, everything is really because I talked

23:12

to trainers about about like the science is the

23:15

science. So your interpretation of

23:17

that and how you implement it is

23:19

really, you know, I think there's so

23:21

many different possibilities. But I think

23:23

the best thing that we can do is increase our awareness,

23:26

like to know that that is probable

23:28

that our our fascial tissues are more

23:30

elastic during this time. So make make

23:32

of it what you will, depending

23:35

on your your primary body type in the first

23:37

place. Yeah, so go ahead. Yeah.

23:40

So if you were going to customize and I know

23:42

again, I think it's Yeah, you're not a personal trainer,

23:44

but you have this great yoga background. If

23:46

you were to customize a change of

23:48

workout when when estrogen peaks, what would

23:51

you tell us to do? I

23:54

would tell you to engage in slower,

23:56

more mindful movements, I wouldn't

23:59

necessarily increase the load but I would

24:01

not go for max reps and

24:03

I would not go for PRs. Okay.

24:07

So and the other problem that I

24:09

think a lot of women have especially

24:11

athletic women is we've learned

24:13

to override pain in our body when

24:15

we're working out. So

24:18

I'm envisioning when I was a

24:20

menstruating woman I was envisioning like

24:22

would I have the intuitive sense

24:25

to know this isn't good for my joints

24:27

because when you're lifting weights it hurts.

24:29

It's not fun at least you

24:32

know and if you're pushing it it's hard. So how

24:34

do you know what's good pushing

24:36

and what's dangerous pushing during those

24:38

times? Yeah and unfortunately you

24:40

don't always know until tomorrow or the day

24:42

after tomorrow. Yeah right. Because of

24:44

delayed onset which by the way is not

24:46

happening in the muscle delayed onset. Delayed

24:50

onset muscle soreness is actually delayed onset

24:52

fascial soreness. This is the sensory neurons

24:54

within the fascial tissues because the muscles repair very quickly.

24:56

They have a 24 hour cycle but fascia has a

24:58

48 to 72 hour repair cycle. So

25:02

some of that inflammation, the inflammation

25:04

that we're experiencing, this engorgement is

25:07

being is that the time that

25:09

for the fascial repair is taking longer than the

25:11

muscle and so you may not know if you've

25:13

overdone it. I mean frequently we don't know that

25:16

we've overdone until the next day anyway. But you

25:18

know by this by the third day you're still

25:20

unable to go down the stairs you probably overdid

25:24

it. And then what day of that of your cycle

25:26

is that? So that's really interesting

25:28

because one of the things I noticed as I went

25:30

through perimenopause was extreme

25:33

soreness. And I

25:35

didn't know again I've been an athlete my

25:37

whole life. I was a competitive tennis player

25:39

in my college years. I

25:41

was shocked that the workouts I had

25:43

been doing on a semi-regular basis all

25:46

of a sudden now we're giving me

25:48

three to four day soreness. So

25:51

I never could figure that out.

25:53

I was like is it testosterone

25:55

to decrease what's causing this soreness?

25:57

What I'm hearing you say is it was probably.

26:00

too much strain on the fascia,

26:02

which would make sense during the

26:05

perimenopausal years because estrogen goes

26:07

really high and then she goes really low

26:10

all the time like a roller coaster ride. So

26:13

we can use how long soreness is

26:15

hanging out to help us understand

26:17

if we are now injuring

26:19

fascia not building muscle.

26:23

Absolutely, I think that is your code and it's

26:28

your body's way of speaking to you and so

26:30

the one of the ways we address it in

26:32

the work that I do is through self myofascial

26:34

release. So we will use

26:37

gentle friction with using

26:39

soft pliable tools to

26:41

induce the fascia sites,

26:44

I'd mentioned these cells, to spurt

26:46

out hyaluronone to increase

26:48

glide where glide is

26:50

now glommy or agglomerated

26:52

due to the repair process

26:55

or just frankly from tearing

26:57

and scarring and getting matted down.

27:00

So and then this is not even

27:02

addressing the autonomic nervous system benefits of

27:04

doing that. But also here's

27:07

another thought for you which

27:09

is that perimenopause is

27:11

so challenging. I'm in perimenopause right now

27:14

and it's like oh two months no

27:16

period and then oh my gosh I'm

27:18

hemorrhaging for a week. This is really

27:21

fascinating. It's yeah there's no there it's

27:23

so unpredictable but when

27:25

I was talking about the the

27:28

sensitivity of fibroblasts

27:30

to estrogen what

27:32

happens when that the estrogen starts

27:35

to recede is your

27:37

fibroblasts aren't being sensitized

27:39

and not being told estrogen is around

27:42

and so they're not creating the more

27:44

elastic collagen they start over producing type

27:46

1 collagen and stiffening down. So they

27:49

start making your whole body stiffer and this is one

27:51

of the chief complaints of postmen of

27:53

women who have gone through perimenopause that are

27:55

now in menopause is that their

27:58

joints feel stiff they feel ache. They

28:01

don't have as much mobility anymore. And

28:03

that is one of the reasons is

28:06

because that type 1 collagen is now

28:08

the dominant fiber that is helping hold

28:10

them together. Because

28:14

you don't have because you're not getting estradiol.

28:16

So your estrogen your estrogen has gone down. And

28:20

so now stiffness has kicked in. So

28:24

what do we do for that woman? And how do

28:26

we help that woman? Well

28:28

first thing you know definitely consider I'm

28:31

not a I'm not a prescriber but

28:33

I definitely am staying in touch with

28:35

my medical team because I really believe

28:37

in my hormone patch has been extremely

28:39

helpful for me especially with my cognitive

28:42

function. But my

28:44

my plan is to maintain some

28:46

level of estrogen as well as

28:48

a lot of movement. I

28:51

work with plenty of people much more

28:53

advanced age than I am who use

28:56

this work the work that I teach

28:59

the self-myofascial release strategies the stress reduction

29:01

strategies via the body via the breath

29:03

to stay mobile to produce hyaluron on

29:06

when that is starting to decline as

29:08

well. So we want to

29:10

make sure that we massage the tissues

29:12

we address the joints we create friction

29:14

very specific friction in different zones so

29:16

that your your muscles can continue to

29:18

contract as much as they can and

29:21

length and as much as they can

29:23

because they live inside your fascia. If

29:25

fascia is stiff if it's agglomerated

29:28

if it's congested if it's bound up your

29:30

muscles aren't going to get any stronger they're

29:32

just going to be get the squeeze by

29:35

your stiffening connective tissue. So it's

29:37

important that we stay mobile. And

29:41

I also want to point out that even

29:43

if we do the patch or we do

29:45

bioidenticals you're still not getting the same amount of

29:47

estrogen you got at 25. So

29:50

I love right now

29:52

that we're at least revisiting some

29:54

of the bioidenticals and some of

29:56

the HRT like I think it's

29:58

a personal path. but I also

30:01

feel like we're losing in that conversation

30:03

the fact that you're still not getting

30:05

back what you had at 25 because

30:07

that's not Appropriately for your age. You're

30:09

not trying to release eggs as much

30:11

So with with that in mind

30:14

what I just heard is outside

30:16

of movement and and muscle building

30:18

I got to think about my

30:20

fascial system, especially as a postmenopausal

30:22

woman And I fear that what

30:25

you're gonna say is that is

30:27

foam rolling Which is the most

30:29

horrific way ever to approach my

30:31

body So tell me how as

30:34

a 54 year old postmenopausal

30:36

woman who works out a ton What

30:39

do I do for my fascia? so

30:41

I Wrote I've

30:43

written two books on self myofascial release and

30:45

I've written a chapter in a

30:48

medical textbook called fascia function and medical applications

30:50

on self myofascial release So unfortunately you are

30:52

gonna hear about rolling Maybe

30:55

not foam rolling because I don't I'm

30:57

not a foam roller person. I like

31:00

a smaller profile tool I like a

31:02

bushy pliable tool that mimics human hands

31:04

rather than feels like you're being you

31:07

know flogged by a bat Yes,

31:09

or by PVC pipe because

31:11

texture matters and hardness matters

31:14

and this is a I think a really interesting

31:17

thing to look at many people have a Recoil

31:20

when they hear foam rolling because it

31:23

freakin hurts it hurt Why does it

31:25

hurt it hurts because when

31:27

something is too hard for your? Nervous

31:30

system for your stretch tolerance for your

31:32

pressure tolerance your sympathetic nervous

31:34

system says no go there protect

31:37

defend And

31:40

that's called your muscle bracing response So when you get

31:42

on a foam roller and you put it on a

31:44

body part that is extremely tight and rigid The

31:46

roller touches it your nervous system says

31:49

this woman is trying to harm me So

31:51

I am gonna stiffen in order to not

31:53

let this implement go into my body And

31:56

so you're just rolling against your own tension. You're

31:58

you're at war literally at war with

32:00

your tissues and your nervous system. This is not

32:03

a therapeutic response. So

32:05

what we wanna try to do is emulate

32:07

as carefully as we can, tender

32:09

touch, that disarms this

32:12

stress response because it's

32:14

really hard to relax, let go, receive

32:17

therapy when you're at

32:20

odds with the therapy. So

32:24

I use, I'll just show

32:26

you, I have a fleet of balls called

32:28

the Romano balls. This is a small, and

32:30

this is a Yovatunov ball, but they're gushy

32:33

and they're grippy. And what that means is

32:35

when they roll against soft tissues like muscle

32:37

bellies, or they roll up and against bony

32:40

junctions like your spine or your shoulder, or

32:42

even your face or your foot, there's

32:44

a yielding so that the bony

32:46

prominence is don't just pinch and

32:49

annoy and get bruised

32:51

by like a lacrosse ball or a

32:53

foam roller, but there's a compliance of

32:55

your soft tissue and the

32:57

tool. And so you can adjust your

32:59

autonomic nervous system, your stress response, you

33:01

can enter into a relaxation response, and

33:04

then it really feels like you're getting massaged

33:06

by a pro, but it's you doing it

33:08

yourself, which is very empowering.

33:11

And so returning to our talk

33:13

about the fascia sites and

33:15

the fibroblasts, because estradiol

33:17

is waning, is

33:20

removed, we don't have this C that

33:22

we're swimming anymore, instead

33:24

of relying on chemicals

33:28

to touch the cells, we

33:30

now rely on pressure to touch the

33:32

cells. This is called mechanotransduction. So

33:35

the pressure from

33:37

the rolling can stimulate the

33:39

fibroblasts to do the right

33:41

thing, to maintain elasticity in our tissue,

33:44

because if you're giving a signal to

33:46

these cells that they need to maintain

33:48

elasticity, they will. But

33:51

if you, you'll maintain

33:53

stiffness by staying stiff, you'll

33:56

maintain elasticity by introducing movement,

33:58

by introducing elasticity. to

34:01

the tissues via compression, via

34:03

shear. There's many different applications

34:05

that I go over in

34:07

my work. Okay, let's talk

34:10

about aging and how to age

34:12

better. So here's the deal. Research

34:14

is showing that the root cause

34:16

of aging is something called a

34:18

senescent cell. These

34:20

are like zombie cells and they're no

34:23

longer useful. And what they do is

34:25

they keep pulling energy resources and nutritional

34:27

resources from your body. Not

34:30

only leading to accelerated aging,

34:32

but also making you feel

34:35

like you're aging. And

34:37

what's really cool is that there's

34:39

really two brilliant ways to get these

34:41

senescent zombie cells out of your body.

34:44

You can imagine what one of them

34:46

is. It's fasting. Intermittent

34:48

fasting has proven, all types of fasting

34:51

has proven to get rid of these

34:53

senescent cells. But there's another

34:55

cool way, an almost easier way

34:58

to get rid of these cells.

35:00

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35:28

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35:31

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36:05

only hope that helps but cheers

36:07

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36:29

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36:31

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Okay, let's just start with that name. How

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37:45

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38:40

you know what it reminds me of one of the research

38:43

articles that really shocked me

38:45

that I found at the

38:47

beginning of 2023 was a

38:50

real in-depth look at

38:52

how estrogen and progesterone

38:55

stimulate a lot of neurotransmitters.

38:58

So if we just stay on the estrogen path, estrogen

39:01

stimulates, estradiol specifically

39:04

stimulates dopamine, serotonin,

39:07

acetylcholine, oxytocin,

39:09

BDNF. I mean so

39:11

when she goes away you're losing all

39:14

these other neurotransmitters and so there needs

39:16

to be a lifestyle that back fills

39:18

in to be able

39:20

to support each one of

39:22

those neurotransmitters. So like serotonin, really

39:25

interesting thing about serotonin is

39:27

actually eating carbs. If

39:29

you eat poultry, specifically

39:31

something that's high in

39:33

tryptophan and then you

39:36

follow that up a couple of hours

39:38

later with carbohydrates, you actually

39:40

use the carbohydrate to convert

39:42

tryptophan into serotonin is another

39:44

study that I found. Okay

39:47

so how many women as they

39:49

go through menopause understand oh I

39:51

may not be happy right now

39:53

because I've lost estrogen that has

39:56

decreased serotonin so I need to

39:58

look at what I can do. And

40:00

hack in strategies like I just gave you

40:02

to bring up serotonin What

40:05

I just learned is that if

40:08

we are getting that same response

40:10

in the fascia Then we need

40:12

to back fill in with something

40:14

like the yoga to nut balls

40:16

to be able to Stimulate the

40:18

fascia in a manner in which

40:20

estradiol was doing but she's now

40:22

gone, right? And so

40:24

we're using we're using for her To

40:28

do that right pressure here

40:30

deep touch and and Noble

40:33

touch because your brain really you

40:35

know, you're a sensory thing. My

40:37

body thinks and feels so we're

40:39

this really helps Excite

40:41

your brain about these new sensations from within

40:43

your body And I mean we use the

40:45

balls all over I use I have a

40:48

special one this this one called

40:50

the cordial spot This is all over the trunk. And so you

40:52

can Pressurize your your rib

40:54

cage your lungs your heart your all

40:56

these deep core muscles your organs your

40:59

viscera Manipulating this very helpful for digestion.

41:01

I know that's something that's really important

41:03

to your listeners also mobilizing

41:06

the colon and so on but

41:09

the You

41:12

know the one of the I have I

41:14

have a menu of five It's called the

41:16

five piece of the parasympathetic nervous system that

41:19

I think is very easy easy

41:21

for people to create

41:24

for themselves to induce this

41:26

relaxation response and and Rolling

41:28

is included But I think that

41:30

to back up like what you're

41:32

saying to back up and a

41:34

mechanical in a mechanical way This

41:38

is I call this the five pieces of parasympathetic nervous

41:40

system and So

41:43

the first P is perspective

41:46

Perspective so perspective means

41:48

you introduce a mindset that

41:50

makes you aware that you are trying to become aware

41:53

of the experience of your body

41:55

and so one of the P's

41:57

that I work with all the time because

41:59

I actually live with a lot of high anxiety,

42:01

a lot of childhood history

42:03

that's brought me to this point in

42:05

life. But I

42:08

like to say to myself, all of me is welcome here. All

42:11

of me is welcome here so that I

42:13

allow for the experience of my body to

42:15

speak whatever it might need to as

42:17

I'm going through this process. And so perspective,

42:19

another simple perspective could just be I'm a

42:21

student of my body or I embody my

42:24

body. Just to welcome the feelings

42:26

to come up and whatever the feelings

42:28

are, sometimes they're emotions, sometimes they're feelings

42:31

of eroticism, sometimes they're feelings of owie,

42:33

sometimes they're feeling of pain, sometimes they're

42:35

their memories. So that's

42:37

the first be the second piece place

42:39

in order for your body to enter

42:42

into the relaxation response, the therapeutic response,

42:45

the environment that you're in is very

42:47

critical. And ideally, you're in a place

42:49

that's safe to you a place that's

42:51

quiet, and even maybe a little dark

42:53

or, you know, relaxing. So that's

42:55

a relaxing environment where you feel safe.

42:58

So we have our perspective, we have our

43:00

place, the third P is position. And

43:04

position takes into

43:06

account how blood pressure is

43:09

calculated by your body. And so

43:11

the easiest position is reclined. Get

43:13

down on those. Yeah,

43:15

now, if you if you lay down

43:17

or you lounge back, you're typically typically

43:20

going to have a more

43:23

relaxed experiencing physiologically because your

43:25

diaphragm is offloaded from its

43:28

postural components, your heart rate

43:30

will slow down, your breath rate will slow down. And

43:33

then from where I come from,

43:35

if you're really want to induce

43:37

the relaxation response, you might even raise your pelvis

43:39

higher than your heart higher than your head by

43:41

putting your pelvis up on a yoga block or

43:43

a stack of books or, you know, put it

43:45

on the cordial ball. And that way you're in

43:47

this gentle slope. And that takes

43:49

advantage of something called the baroreceptor reflex.

43:52

But anyway, that ignites the vagus nerve,

43:54

your major parasympathetic nerve to really slow

43:56

down the heart rate to really slow

43:58

down the breath rate. Okay,

44:01

so those are those are some organizing

44:03

principles. We've got perfective place position. The

44:05

fourth P is pace of breath. Breathing

44:08

is free. Breathing

44:10

comes with no bells and whistles. I

44:12

mean, except whistling. You

44:15

can always manipulate the

44:17

pace of your breath to

44:21

adjust state. Now it's

44:23

easy for me to say, it's

44:25

not always easy to do, especially if you

44:27

are in the throes of a panic attack.

44:31

But typically, we can

44:34

induce a relaxation response by

44:37

extending our exhalations, just making them

44:39

a little longer than the inhale that

44:41

we breathe prior. So if you can

44:43

consider that trying to blow

44:45

out, get the wind out,

44:48

get the candles on the cake out, making

44:50

that happen longer than inhale. There's so many, I mean,

44:53

I wrote a 480 page book about different

44:56

breathing practice. You can do that.

44:59

Yes, like that will that are that also

45:01

especially for people who have

45:04

what I would, what I call breath

45:06

induced anxiety. So some people when they're told

45:09

to breathe, that actually spikes their threat response.

45:11

And so sometimes we have to

45:13

take breath off the table and go right to the

45:16

fifth P, which is palpation.

45:19

And palpation is what we've been talking

45:21

about. It's inducing pressure into

45:23

your body in novel ways that

45:28

delights the brain or confuses

45:30

the brain and allows

45:32

these pressures to

45:35

help also cascade you into a relaxation

45:37

response. And in my most

45:39

recent work, I there are these portals

45:42

that pressurize mechanical

45:44

places where your vagus nerve

45:47

is available. And that can

45:49

hasten even more relaxation. So

45:52

these five pieces of parasympathetic nervous system, when

45:54

you compound them, it is like your inner

45:57

medicine chest. So it's not like taking Klonopin

45:59

or whatever. You're actually creating

46:01

an internal environment for your

46:04

physiology where you are crafting

46:09

this calming response and you're getting

46:11

body work done in the meantime.

46:13

So it's the VIPs again, it's

46:16

perspective, place,

46:19

position, pace of breath, palpation.

46:23

So if I'm a 47-year-old

46:25

woman, I'm having a

46:27

panic attack, I'm starting to learn how

46:30

to live with anxiety for the first

46:32

time because of the loss of hormones,

46:35

I could use those five P's

46:37

as a way to guide myself

46:40

into a calmer state. Could

46:43

you talk a little bit about like, so would

46:45

I lay on the ground with my hips up,

46:47

get one of the balls? Like give

46:50

us some action of how that might

46:52

look in a momentary panic attack. Yeah,

46:55

in a momentary panic attack, because I have

46:57

them sometimes when I travel, what I actually

46:59

like to do is, because

47:01

it's usually like in public, like

47:04

on an airplane, I'll put the ball

47:06

actually in my gut. I can't see it.

47:09

So I'll press into my gut or

47:11

my ribs and I'll bend over.

47:15

And this gives biofeedback. So you

47:17

have something, a tool that you

47:19

can actually breathe against. And

47:21

that really helps because it

47:24

mimics the bear hug, right? So you know

47:26

when your kids, your toddlers are having a

47:28

temper tantrum and their faces are turning red,

47:30

that if you can get them to a

47:32

place where you can give them a good

47:35

solid pressure hug, that can help

47:37

them to finally switch gears

47:39

and then start to ramp back up into

47:42

a more homeostatic place of

47:44

communication and interaction. So

47:46

I give myself that bear hug using the tool.

47:48

I mean, I carry this around with me. It

47:50

just deflates in my backpack and

47:53

really specifically thinking about a misconception

47:55

that happened recently where I was like,

47:57

okay, I can't even move my leg.

48:00

I was in such a panic attack, but as soon

48:02

as I was able to get to

48:04

the gate, I started using my tools

48:07

right away. Help patient,

48:10

head below heart, extended exhalations,

48:12

and then the perspective, telling

48:14

myself that I'm okay,

48:16

it's a safe place. My

48:18

breath is safe. My breath is home. Just

48:20

whatever I could. I think what's

48:22

really important about that story and what I'm

48:25

trying to educate women on is that

48:27

it would be easy. This is again sort

48:29

of the world we live in where you

48:31

would see somebody do like, oh, you're having

48:34

a panic attack, grab the ball,

48:36

put it around your stomach, exhale out

48:38

more than you inhale. We

48:40

tend to think of that as woo woo.

48:43

Like, oh, that's kind of a weird, I

48:45

think culturally, I know you

48:47

don't, I don't, but what

48:49

I want the listeners to hear is

48:52

that it may seem, let's say

48:54

insignificant. That may seem like an

48:56

insignificant approach to anxiety. But if

48:58

you back it up to what

49:00

we talked about before, which is

49:02

you're in your mid-40s, you're

49:04

losing estrogen, fascia is tightening, it's

49:06

going to be easier. You don't

49:08

have progesterone to helping you make

49:11

GABA, these panic attacks, this anxiety

49:13

is going to appear because you

49:15

are neurochemically changing. So

49:17

what you just described is science

49:19

showing us how to adapt to

49:21

that change. That's my

49:23

point in making that so that we don't,

49:26

I think what you said was brilliant and

49:28

I want to make sure that the listeners

49:30

don't disregard that. That

49:32

was a phenomenal, easy way that we

49:35

can all lean into. Where

49:37

my brain goes next is what about

49:39

bloating? Can that help with bloating? Oh,

49:44

so I will share this with you.

49:46

So I am a recovered anorexic and

49:49

I'm also a recovered bulimic. I

49:54

try to stay away, I totally stay

49:56

away from any nutritional

49:58

advice. to

50:00

people. So I always go to the

50:02

mechanical side of things. I obviously, I

50:04

listen to nutritional advice, but I never

50:07

engage in that conversation because I'm just not

50:09

an expert on it. And I'm

50:11

not good with managing other people's

50:13

nutritional or their body shape expectations.

50:16

But bloating is extremely

50:20

uncomfortable. And it's really problematic for

50:22

a lot of the tissues that

50:24

I love to talk about, namely

50:27

the respiratory diaphragm. So when

50:29

there is excess gas in

50:31

your viscera, your diaphragm, which

50:34

lives inside of your rib cage, has

50:36

a really hard time descending. It

50:39

has a really hard time moving

50:41

and bouncing your viscera up

50:43

and down, which would maybe make it more

50:46

helpful to move gas along. Yeah, is

50:48

to have this wonderful rhythm, right? The

50:51

gas, the pressure is just rising and

50:53

rising. It's making your diaphragm rise up.

50:55

And if your diaphragm can't descend and then

50:59

return to its place, it's really hard

51:01

to be in a calm state. In

51:03

Body by Breath, I talk about three

51:05

zones of respiration. And in

51:07

zone one respiration, we're breathing in a way

51:10

that our diaphragm descends, our organs distend

51:13

cooperatively, our pelvic floor distends,

51:15

our lumbar region, the fascia

51:17

of the lumbar aporosis.

51:20

We have this 360 expansion. And then

51:22

all of that funnels right back in

51:24

when the diaphragm goes back home into

51:26

its rib cage. So we have this

51:28

wonderful collaborative thing. And that is one

51:30

of our easiest ways to know

51:32

that we're in a calm state. Calm state

51:34

breathing happens in zone one. If I'm not

51:37

in zone one, because I have pressure within

51:39

my organs that aren't allowing diaphragm to

51:41

descend, I default into what's called zone

51:43

two breathing. In zone two breathing,

51:46

I'm relying on my intercostals. These are muscles

51:48

that line the ribs. If you've ever eaten

51:50

ribs, you've eaten intercostals, as well as the

51:52

diaphragm to move the ribs up

51:55

and down as I breathe. Now

51:58

zone two breathing is not illegal. use this when

52:00

you're running, you use this when you're pushing weights,

52:03

you need this when you're moving a sofa across

52:05

the floor, right? We have to brace our core,

52:07

we have to brace our abdomen, we have to

52:09

stiffen our abdomen and our back so that we

52:12

don't injure our low back or our pelvis. So

52:14

we have to breathe somewhere, we breathe in zone

52:16

two. But if you're breathing in zone two all

52:19

the time, because you're bloated or because you have

52:21

scar tissue in your abdomen that doesn't allow your

52:23

diaphragm to descend, or maybe you breathe

52:25

in zone two all the time because you want

52:27

to look skinny, so you're pulling your abdomen in,

52:30

it's going to create an overall more sympathetic

52:32

tone in your body. You're going to be

52:34

more upregulated, you're going to be more height,

52:37

you're going to be more agitated. And then what

52:39

often happens in zone two, is if

52:42

we're chronically in zone two, because we're

52:44

bloated, we're going to stay bloated,

52:46

because we're not entering into our rest

52:48

and digest, we can't get into the calm state.

52:51

And then that will often throw us into

52:53

what I call zone three breathing, which is

52:55

our in case of emergency breathing. And that's

52:58

when breathing happens with face, neck,

53:00

shoulder, jaw, where you'll end up,

53:04

yes, you'll keep,

53:06

you'll hoist air into

53:08

the upper portion of your airway. And this

53:10

we do this in the case of shock

53:13

or fright, or fear, or

53:15

it's not always diabolical, you also do

53:17

this in orgasm, you know,

53:19

you'll have these sudden rapturous breaths, but it's

53:21

usually very short lived. And

53:23

so this is very high stress. So if

53:25

we're in a blend of penisone, three zone

53:27

two breathing, it's very difficult

53:29

to then have

53:32

healthy digestion, because we are

53:34

literally running the car. It's

53:37

out of gas, but it's still running. I mean,

53:39

you're full of gas. Yeah, yeah, right. Literally didn't

53:42

work. Yeah. So how do we fix that? I

53:44

think that's I can tell there are so many

53:46

women, let me just put this. So

53:49

many women that complain about bloating

53:51

during their period. So how that

53:53

logic of what you just explained,

53:56

I feel like every

53:58

woman is like, Yep, that's me. How

54:00

do we fix it? Yes. So

54:02

I wanted to go through that so that

54:04

I can then talk. You

54:07

throw an application. So

54:09

if you don't have something like a gorgeous ball,

54:12

you don't need a gorgeous ball, you can use

54:14

a pillow. You can use a rolled up

54:16

yoga mat. And what I would do is lay

54:19

yourself on your side, lay

54:21

specifically on your left side and

54:24

place an object. That's

54:26

comfortable. So whatever object you use, you don't want

54:28

it. It shouldn't be hard. It

54:30

shouldn't feel like you're punching yourself with an

54:33

object. So a gentle thing, like, I mean,

54:35

if you're just starting off with this, a

54:37

pillow is great and actually let your abdomen

54:40

rest on it. I have an exercise in the

54:42

book called Gut Baby Mindy. Oh,

54:46

I can send you a photo of Gut Baby

54:48

so you can see what I'm talking about. And

54:51

allow the organs,

54:53

which are gassy

54:56

and having difficulty contracting well, the smooth

54:58

muscle, actually let the organs rest on

55:00

the ball or let it rest on

55:02

the object. And then you take your

55:04

top hand, so you picture yourself, you're

55:06

laying on your side, probably have something

55:08

underneath your head so that your head

55:10

is supported. And then you, it's

55:13

like pregnant belly, allow these organs

55:15

to traction away from their roots.

55:17

Their root is in the mesentery.

55:19

So this gets into some anatomy,

55:21

but all the

55:23

blood that serves your intestines

55:26

is like a giant dog

55:29

in the back of your abdomen. And so

55:31

what we're doing is we're tractioning these organs

55:33

away, letting the letting the

55:35

vasculature have some stretch. We're stretching loads

55:37

of fascia, by the way. We're stretching

55:39

loads of muscle. All your core muscles

55:41

are being stretched here. And

55:43

then you just want to very quietly

55:47

breathe into

55:50

the gut. You want to try to

55:52

allow the diaphragm to descend and

55:54

relax. So it's just a

55:56

very slow meditation. And then you take your top

55:59

hand and rest it. on your top side

56:01

of your abdomen and you just keep coaxing the abs

56:03

out. Now I know it seems crazy like, wait, I'm

56:05

going to try to get rid of the blow. I'm

56:07

going to squish the gas

56:09

out. I want to press in. No,

56:12

no, no. Actually allow the gesture to

56:14

complete. Allow fluff to

56:16

come in. So you're essentially fluffing the

56:18

organs. That is going to allow stretch

56:21

to come into the colon, into the

56:23

small intestine. Allow the smooth muscle to

56:25

then come back online because

56:27

we're getting our zone one breath in there. And

56:29

that's when your smooth muscles within the organs will

56:31

start to contract. We'll start to move stuff along.

56:34

You start on your left side, so you can

56:36

let the gas that steps along the sigmoid colon

56:38

get out first. Otherwise you'll have

56:40

even more visceral pain. And after about

56:43

three to five minutes, then you can switch to

56:45

the other side and you'll start to heal the

56:47

burglarigmia. You'll hear like those

56:49

whale sounds in the gut as

56:52

gas is starting to move

56:54

along finally from where it's

56:56

been congested within your organs.

56:59

So, and what's, what kind of breathing techniques

57:01

should we do the in, in for like

57:04

four out for six? Like should the exhale

57:06

be longer than the inhale to just kind

57:08

of calm the nervous system? If

57:11

you're able to do that. So sometimes a

57:13

paced breath. So as I mentioned before,

57:15

pace of breath is really critical. Longer

57:17

exhales and inhales in general. But

57:20

the introduction of this pressure into the gut

57:22

and this sort of this odd traction of

57:24

the gut can be

57:27

so discombobulating

57:29

for some that sometimes I'll just tell people, just

57:31

watch your body breathe. Watch your body

57:33

breathe. Don't try to control it because

57:36

we're trying to control everything. Right? Right. Just let

57:38

your body breathe. And then within

57:40

a few minutes, what happens typically to those people is

57:42

all of a sudden they'll yawn. They'll have

57:44

an involuntary side, just like

57:47

all of a sudden they'll have a stage shift.

57:49

And that's when you can then start pacing

57:51

out the breath. So sometimes I just

57:54

want the body to be, I want to all

57:56

my, all the feels are welcome here. My

57:58

body thinks and feels. My

58:01

breath is home, my organs are home, and

58:04

not try to over control them. Just let them

58:06

rest on the ball and be with

58:08

them. Okay, so just so

58:10

I'm clear, you roll up a yoga mat

58:13

or a pillow, you're starting on

58:15

your left side, you're laying on

58:17

your left side, you're letting your abdomen just kind

58:19

of hang that, like you said, what do

58:21

you call it, the gut baby. Where's

58:24

the ball? Where's the ball? Is the

58:26

ball... I'm going to show you

58:28

the picture in the book. Oh, it's in the book. So,

58:30

okay, great. So, because there's... Oh, listen, you

58:32

know what? There's even... I have

58:34

this online. I have a free video

58:36

of Gut Baby. Look at that. I have a QR

58:38

code. So, can you see how I'm...

58:40

The ball, how my abs are kind of like... Yeah.

58:44

Loaded on there. So, you're

58:46

using the pressure of the

58:48

mechanoreceptors of the fascia of

58:51

the gut, which actually is really interesting.

58:53

You have me thinking now because bloating,

58:55

I've always thought of as for

58:57

the perimenopause and menopausal woman is

59:00

it's a trouble clearing estrogen. It's

59:02

like, you know, really for the

59:04

woman who still has a cycle,

59:06

it's often that post-ovulation bloat because

59:09

the body can't clear the estrogen. But

59:11

then now you're really giving me insight

59:14

on how to use mechanoreceptors to tap

59:16

into this estrogen

59:18

system. So, you know,

59:21

I hope every woman who still has

59:23

a cycle, one real important place you

59:25

would use this would be post-ovulation, don't

59:27

you think? Yes.

59:30

And one of the other

59:32

things that I want to make sure

59:34

that your listeners know is that your

59:37

organs are comprised of collagen. Mm.

59:39

Right? So, these

59:42

are fascial structures too, right? Yeah. Our

59:45

organs are surrounded by fascia, but as...

59:48

I'm sorry, my... This warning, I had turned

59:50

this off, but it's coming in. The

59:53

motility slowing is also

59:55

due to elastic changes

59:58

throughout your body. collagen

1:00:00

is not the fascia is not just where the

1:00:02

collagen is the collagen you know fascia

1:00:05

is a structure that that comprises your

1:00:07

colon and your small intestines too so

1:00:10

we have these collagen changes

1:00:12

in estrogen changes all over

1:00:16

interesting really interesting it's

1:00:18

like a part of the hormone conversation I

1:00:20

literally have never had so you have my

1:00:22

brain totally geeked out on this so

1:00:25

if if I'm a perimenopause or

1:00:27

menopausal woman bloating is a big

1:00:29

issue I know it's called collagen

1:00:32

changes could I do a

1:00:34

daily routine like could I take a yoga

1:00:36

tune-up ball and just go along the the

1:00:38

large intestine go I you know I used

1:00:40

to do this in my clinic all the

1:00:42

time for when kids have colic our

1:00:45

babies have colic I would show the parents how to

1:00:47

do an upside down you on the on

1:00:50

the belly with their hand I'm feeling

1:00:52

like we need to do that with

1:00:54

the ball when we go through these

1:00:56

perimenopausal years yeah so I

1:00:58

so the cordial ball I

1:01:00

mean you can inflate it to the density

1:01:02

you you like and it does take it takes

1:01:05

a little bit to get used to it

1:01:07

that's why I start people generally on their side

1:01:09

so that they can acclimate to their own

1:01:11

pain pressure threshold and also get familiar with the

1:01:13

feeling of their viscera right with these visceral

1:01:15

pressures because it is very very odd but

1:01:18

ultimately abdominal massage self abdominal

1:01:20

massage is I think just

1:01:23

critical to digestive health but also to

1:01:25

mobilize gut sensitized lymph to move into

1:01:27

the thoracic duct I mean it's very

1:01:29

helpful for your immune system it's also

1:01:31

very helpful for your core mechanics right

1:01:33

because like you said the mechanic sensor

1:01:35

so we're stretching and we're pressuring and

1:01:37

we're shearing these different muscles of the

1:01:39

core so ultimately this can help back

1:01:41

pain change your relationship to back pain

1:01:43

and be able to make these muscles

1:01:45

more functional and this is to say

1:01:47

nothing of what it's also doing for

1:01:49

the help of the respiratory diaphragm and

1:01:51

then the rib cage there higher than

1:01:53

that because we also do the same type of work

1:01:55

on the rib cage that it's

1:01:58

fascinating to me I literally I

1:02:00

love anatomy. When you're

1:02:02

like, oh, I'm not to geek out on anatomy,

1:02:04

I'm like, yes, let's geek out on anatomy. I

1:02:06

love anatomy. But I had

1:02:08

never thought of the mechanoreceptors

1:02:11

and the power of stimulating

1:02:13

those through the menopausal process.

1:02:15

And to me, through

1:02:17

the menopausal process means 40. Anything

1:02:20

after 40, we start to see these

1:02:22

hormonal shifts. And in

1:02:24

my clinic all the time, I saw so

1:02:26

many extreme athletes at the end of their

1:02:29

40s, injured themselves

1:02:31

and they were not recovering. What

1:02:34

I'm currently seeing is so many women

1:02:36

that are dealing with bloating throughout

1:02:38

their 40s and it's just driving

1:02:41

them crazy. And what you

1:02:43

just taught me was we got to go

1:02:45

think about these mechanoreceptors and

1:02:48

stimulating them so that we are

1:02:50

adapting for the changes in hormones.

1:02:53

Yes. And I mean, there's

1:02:56

so much to talk about because I mean,

1:02:58

there are also some really other important areas

1:03:00

of the body that I think athletes need

1:03:02

to really make sure that they're rolling on

1:03:04

a regular basis because of this changeover of

1:03:07

type 3 to type 1 collagen. So

1:03:10

the ankles are really, really important,

1:03:13

especially because of the prevalence of

1:03:15

Achilles tears that starts to

1:03:17

ramp up with aging. And

1:03:19

it's just really puzzling how people are like, I had no

1:03:22

clue that I was about to rupture, like

1:03:24

these sudden ruptures. And I'm specifically thinking about

1:03:26

one of my clients, she was playing

1:03:29

pickleball. Pickleball? Pickleball injuries,

1:03:32

anyone? Yeah, 59

1:03:34

years old and she was simply walking backwards

1:03:36

on the court. So her ankle was in

1:03:38

dorsiflexion. That means, you know, that's the

1:03:40

position that your ankle is in when your knee

1:03:42

is ahead of your toes and

1:03:45

the calf is greatly stretched and she's just

1:03:47

walking backwards. There was no shuffle backwards. It

1:03:49

was a walk backwards and the Achilles

1:03:51

pop. And this

1:03:53

is a healthy woman. I mean, she

1:03:55

has been a student of mine for

1:03:57

decades and is... super

1:04:00

healthy. I just could not figure

1:04:02

out how she didn't get feedback

1:04:05

from her cast that she

1:04:07

was beyond range or beyond a safe

1:04:09

range or that there was no signal

1:04:11

to her. No signal ever.

1:04:14

And so the same researcher, Carla

1:04:17

Steko, at the most recent Faster

1:04:20

Research Congress, which

1:04:22

was 20... maybe it was

1:04:25

at the same conference that she did

1:04:27

this other lecture on

1:04:29

aging. And

1:04:32

what she described, and this gets real anatomical,

1:04:35

so let me just describe to

1:04:37

the listeners, you

1:04:40

have fascia wrapping around every single muscle

1:04:42

cell of your body, right? So like

1:04:44

if you imagine an orange, everybody can

1:04:46

picture the orange analogy, if you like

1:04:49

you pick you open up

1:04:51

the orange and then you get your segments, but

1:04:53

then you segment the segment. And when you

1:04:55

pull the skin of the segment

1:04:58

apart, you see all these beautiful

1:05:00

glistening kryptonite looking juice things inside

1:05:02

of a little cellulose packet, right?

1:05:04

And you can just pop it and all of a sudden

1:05:06

you have this clear see-through

1:05:09

cellulose. Really cool, right? Your

1:05:11

muscle cells are the same way. Every

1:05:13

muscle cell is surrounded by fascia and

1:05:16

the surrounding fascia at that point at

1:05:18

the level of the muscle cells is

1:05:21

called the endometrium. Then you have these

1:05:23

muscle cells that come together and

1:05:26

this bundle of muscle cells is called

1:05:28

a fascicle. We could also

1:05:30

call that a sashicle. I think that's probably

1:05:32

the correct pronunciation in my head, it's fascicle.

1:05:35

And the fascia there is called the perine

1:05:37

museum. And then when you have bunches

1:05:41

of clumps of these sashicles

1:05:43

together, then we have a muscle and

1:05:46

it's wrapped in more fascia called the epimesium.

1:05:48

But this fascia is continuous. This is like

1:05:51

spun and spun and spun and spun. So

1:05:55

the stretch sensor in

1:05:57

a muscle is called the muscle... spindle.

1:06:02

And it has a capsule. And

1:06:05

the capsule of the muscle, so muscle spindle

1:06:07

senses pull on the muscle. And this is

1:06:09

how we sense stretch. We sense stretch because

1:06:12

there's pulling occurring and

1:06:15

then your brain is like, oh, there's feeling

1:06:17

stretch. I'm going to stop stretching because it's too

1:06:20

much. But

1:06:22

it's a yanking actually on the fascial

1:06:25

capsule in this spindle. And the

1:06:27

capsule is made up of endo

1:06:29

museum, peri museum, at nepe museum.

1:06:32

So just stay with me here. If

1:06:35

my type three

1:06:37

collagen is being

1:06:39

steadily replaced with type one

1:06:42

collagen, I may

1:06:44

not necessarily be feeling stretch where

1:06:46

I used to feel stretch anymore.

1:06:48

Because, because the stiffening

1:06:51

is so profound, and I'm at

1:06:53

a loss, a sensory loss, I

1:06:55

start to lose sensory amnesia

1:06:57

because of this over stiffening. And I'm not even aware

1:06:59

that it's happening because I mean, you're just

1:07:01

not aware of it. And I think

1:07:04

that that's probably part of the mechanism that led

1:07:07

to my friend rupturing, because

1:07:09

she had no sensation of

1:07:11

stretch. And so it's

1:07:13

this. And so I

1:07:15

think, you know, she wasn't rolling her ankle,

1:07:18

she wasn't doing stimulation with the therapy balls

1:07:20

in specific ways at all, if at all.

1:07:23

So anyway, I think that there are

1:07:25

certain areas or body risks fingers, hands,

1:07:27

feet, ankles, that are very

1:07:29

high charge zones of movement of

1:07:31

differential movement that we need this

1:07:33

differential movement. And you know,

1:07:36

we see these incidents of ruptures. And then

1:07:38

of course, surgeries for carpal tunnel, these are

1:07:40

these are due to fascial narrowing, not just

1:07:43

yeah, this is age really the changes

1:07:46

to fascia. So I think that to

1:07:49

go back to let's keep stimulating

1:07:51

our connective tissues via friction, especially

1:07:54

with this recession of estrogen. In

1:07:57

your book, do you have like a daily

1:07:59

protocol? That's what I just learned as I was

1:08:01

listening to you on that. I thought well there needs to

1:08:03

be a daily protocol If we're not going

1:08:05

to have a sense that the stiffness

1:08:08

could leave it I mean I killed my

1:08:10

husband had an Achilles tendon rupture and it

1:08:12

changed him forever forever For

1:08:15

all the wrong, you know his fitness level and he couldn't

1:08:17

play soccer anymore. It was a big deal So

1:08:20

how do we make sure that we don't

1:08:22

do that? Do you have like a pro

1:08:24

like a two-minute five-minute protocol in your book

1:08:26

that people could reference? To

1:08:29

just make well we're hitting buddy. Yeah

1:08:31

body by breath is really concerned about the

1:08:33

body-wide impacts of respiration My first book the

1:08:35

role model which I always have

1:08:37

a copy of right here Okay, this book it

1:08:40

goes through everybody part and I

1:08:42

teaches you how to roll And so I think that

1:08:44

you know I don't necessarily say like this is exactly

1:08:46

how you have to roll every time is I think

1:08:48

people should Use their their sense

1:08:51

their own sensibility But it would be a

1:08:53

good idea to get some good rolling friction

1:08:55

around your ankle and throughout your feet And

1:08:57

I have an online classroom where I take

1:08:59

people through so many different possibilities

1:09:01

of rolling for so many different reasons

1:09:03

But yes, most of the people

1:09:06

that work with me do some rolling every

1:09:08

day I mean including myself and my husband

1:09:10

who's my partner in business, but yeah I

1:09:13

mean it's a lifestyle Yeah No and

1:09:16

and but that this has been like

1:09:18

my my plea to the world is

1:09:20

that There is a lifestyle

1:09:22

change that needs to happen for women

1:09:25

after 40 end of

1:09:27

story your hormones are going away You're

1:09:29

losing neurotransmitters. You've got to learn how

1:09:31

to build a life that adapts to

1:09:33

that loss We can put

1:09:35

a patch on it that can help but we

1:09:37

still have this lifestyle and what I'm hearing now

1:09:39

is Stimulating the mechanoreceptors

1:09:42

is part of that adaptation

1:09:44

breath is part of that

1:09:47

Adaptation and so I love

1:09:49

that you've put these manuals together for us

1:09:52

So that we can lean into both those

1:09:54

books and we'll leave links for your books

1:09:56

to sort of show us hat where we

1:09:58

can Can get a door? in.

1:10:00

One of my curiosities

1:10:04

and something I've been thinking a lot about

1:10:06

this year is the memory

1:10:08

that fascia has of trauma.

1:10:11

And if you look at

1:10:13

the old series around Rolfing, you

1:10:16

mentioned earlier on that there's emotion

1:10:18

stored in our fascia as well.

1:10:21

So talk to us a little bit

1:10:23

about what we need to know just

1:10:25

about emotional stuff that might come up

1:10:28

as we start to roll and breathe into

1:10:30

fascia. Have you seen people have emotions come

1:10:32

up and out of them? Yeah,

1:10:35

so I would probably frame

1:10:37

the question or frame

1:10:41

the response around, you know,

1:10:44

I've dissected a number of bodies and

1:10:46

when I'm in there, I don't see

1:10:48

the emotion. I just see the fast.

1:10:50

That's right. I just want to say

1:10:52

like, I think that, you

1:10:54

know, there's

1:10:57

some old myths in the

1:11:00

yoga space like, oh, your dad's in your left

1:11:02

hip, mom's in your right hip. I

1:11:04

don't really subscribe to that. That's a

1:11:07

truth. What I do know is that with

1:11:09

these 250

1:11:11

million sensory nerve endings in

1:11:14

your facial tissues, when

1:11:17

you're rolling, you're not just increasing range

1:11:19

of motion, but you will

1:11:21

be rolling and experiencing a range of

1:11:23

emotion. And you

1:11:25

don't necessarily know why, wherefore,

1:11:28

how, or what the is

1:11:30

emerging from you. But it's very

1:11:33

important to honor the responses that

1:11:35

your body has as

1:11:37

you contact the places within yourself that

1:11:39

you might not let other people touch.

1:11:42

And I think that's just so highly

1:11:44

valuable to be able to track yourself,

1:11:46

to treat yourself and to sense yourself

1:11:49

so that you are in total

1:11:51

ownership of the experience of being

1:11:54

the giver and the receiver of

1:11:56

this sensitive touch. light

1:12:00

touch, deep touch, whatever it is that pleases

1:12:04

you and that feeds your interest,

1:12:06

your curiosity. So, yes,

1:12:08

I see it all the time. And

1:12:11

that is honestly one of the biggest

1:12:13

motivations for writing Body by Breath. When

1:12:15

I wrote the role model and

1:12:18

I started writing this, oh my God,

1:12:20

2000. Okay,

1:12:23

so this book is 10 years old. I

1:12:26

started writing it 12 years ago, the role model. And

1:12:30

I put a call to action out to

1:12:33

my students all over the world, hey, how

1:12:35

has Rowling helped your body

1:12:37

for your life? And I expected people to

1:12:39

send in answers like, oh, it helped me

1:12:41

recover from my knee surgery or it prevented

1:12:44

my back surgery or, you know, I used

1:12:46

it during chemo and it

1:12:48

was very, you know, helpful for this and

1:12:50

that. I really expected a lot of these

1:12:52

sort of clinical

1:12:54

answers. Every

1:12:57

story I got, this book is loaded

1:12:59

with testimonies, every story I got had

1:13:01

a huge emotional component, huge

1:13:04

self-regulation component. And

1:13:08

I knew that was true for me because I

1:13:10

came to Rowling because of my own eating disorders.

1:13:12

I started doing abdominal massage because I

1:13:14

was bulimic and I couldn't feel my abs

1:13:17

when I was in Pilates. And I needed

1:13:19

to figure out a way to

1:13:22

connect the dots, to connect this hemisphere

1:13:24

of, you know, this part of my

1:13:26

life, which was my brain trying to control everything.

1:13:29

And then this body underneath that was

1:13:31

just struggling and following urges. And

1:13:34

so for me, the self-massage was

1:13:37

the thing that brought me into

1:13:40

a sense of wholeness with

1:13:42

myself. And I really wanted

1:13:44

to know why it was that. Why is

1:13:46

this self-touch so emotionally regulating? And

1:13:48

so Body by Breath was partly born of

1:13:51

that investigation of why were so many people

1:13:53

using these as a soothing mechanism, as a

1:13:55

coping mechanism, not just to help with their

1:13:57

neck pain, or why they were so Why

1:14:00

were they helping their neck pain and all of

1:14:02

a sudden they started to cry and they started

1:14:04

to process things. And so when

1:14:06

you say the body keeps the score,

1:14:08

this is very much in line with

1:14:10

the touch therapy, the

1:14:13

somatic psychotherapy space of realizing

1:14:16

that the body does hold

1:14:19

emotion. The body thinks and feels. It's not

1:14:21

just that we have all these stories in

1:14:23

our head. Our body tells the story that

1:14:25

it's sometimes it's very difficult for an individual

1:14:27

to be able to hear their own story

1:14:29

or process their own story. And

1:14:32

this work, I think, gives

1:14:34

you a framework for creating the time and the

1:14:36

space to be able to do that for yourself.

1:14:38

And then if you need to seek additional help,

1:14:41

if you need a counselor or a therapist or

1:14:43

a group, I encourage you in the

1:14:45

book, I have resources of, you know, you

1:14:47

know, people in the somatic psych space that

1:14:49

can help you process this

1:14:52

range of emotion that is suddenly showing

1:14:54

itself to you. Yeah. That's

1:14:57

so beautifully said. OK, where do people

1:14:59

find these books? I'm like, I'm creating Christmas lists

1:15:01

in my head as you're talking. I'm like,

1:15:03

OK, this person I know needs it. Where

1:15:06

do they find the books and where do they find the balls?

1:15:08

Because I think you referred to the balls a couple of times.

1:15:11

So we'll leave links for everything. But just verbally,

1:15:13

how do we how do we get to your

1:15:15

resources? Yeah, I have a

1:15:17

big website, tuneupfitness.com. So

1:15:19

my company is tuneupfitness. And I

1:15:22

teach online classes once a week. I also have

1:15:24

a mentor program where we get together and we

1:15:26

discuss all this all this work.

1:15:29

There's a number of trainings that are available on the site. Brock,

1:15:32

on your staff knows Katie Bowman. I've done a

1:15:34

program with her called Walking Well. I referenced Tom

1:15:36

Myers earlier. We have a program called Rolling Along

1:15:38

the Anatomy Trains. My friend Kelly

1:15:40

Starrett, who wrote the forward to the role model. We have

1:15:42

a program called Treat While You Train. I

1:15:45

even have a HIIT program, funny, I've been

1:15:47

with a physical therapist friend in line, Dr.

1:15:49

Debroni, called Roll Into HIIT. So the books

1:15:51

are those. Those are available.

1:15:53

Those programs and balls are on tuneupfitness.com.

1:15:56

Role model is available on tuneupfitness.com. Body

1:15:58

by breath. is not available on our

1:16:01

website because it is so heavy. Yeah,

1:16:03

it looked really, yeah. And you got sent

1:16:05

to me and it was really heavy. Yes.

1:16:07

So it's a hardback. And so you can,

1:16:09

the best price that can be done

1:16:11

is on Amazon. So we can't beat Amazon's prices. So

1:16:13

we don't carry it. And you can

1:16:15

also find it at Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart,

1:16:18

and then all over the world, I

1:16:20

can't remember the European websites, but

1:16:22

there are certainly available all over

1:16:25

the world through, I think, Blackwells.co

1:16:27

through.uk. Yeah. Beautiful. Well,

1:16:29

this is fascinating. So I thank

1:16:32

you for taking a hormonal perspective

1:16:34

with me in this conversation. You

1:16:36

know, I'm really trying to give women

1:16:39

over 40 solutions and, and really understanding

1:16:41

our body. And wow, as

1:16:43

you know, the changes to our fascial system,

1:16:45

I did not expect to hear what you

1:16:48

presented to us today. So thank you for

1:16:50

that. Well, you're amazing to

1:16:52

bounce this stuff off of. And I

1:16:54

just, I'm so excited by what I

1:16:56

learned from you today too. So

1:16:58

I promise I'm going to keep going down

1:17:01

this track and hopefully I'll

1:17:03

discover and learn more and then we can

1:17:05

do a share, you know, a year from

1:17:07

now. Or so, you know, I

1:17:09

think the question that I have keep coming

1:17:11

back to is if estradiol

1:17:15

stimulated every organ

1:17:17

system, what do

1:17:19

we need to do to backfill in? And,

1:17:22

and we can still put the patch on,

1:17:24

we can still take the creams, but

1:17:26

we still have to have this

1:17:29

conversation about lifestyle and it's intricate.

1:17:31

And what I'm hoping everybody hears is

1:17:33

that a lot of the symptoms that

1:17:35

show up for us, we put in

1:17:38

the category of aging or,

1:17:40

or we, we, they're so troublesome. They

1:17:42

affect our life and we don't understand

1:17:44

why. And what I'm trying

1:17:46

to do is help people understand why, because

1:17:48

the body doesn't do anything by mistake. When

1:17:51

you are bloating, it wasn't like all of a

1:17:53

sudden, you know, the powers that be was like,

1:17:56

I'm going to give you a descended abdomen today.

1:17:58

It's, there is some. I think that the body

1:18:00

is trying to tell us and you just gave me

1:18:03

a whole other piece of that. So

1:18:05

I really appreciate it. I got

1:18:07

to finish with my favorite question. I

1:18:09

love knowing people's super power. What's

1:18:12

your superpower do you think that you bring to

1:18:14

the world? Oh

1:18:19

my goodness. Playfulness. Yay.

1:18:22

Amazing. We need

1:18:24

more of that. We need and how does that

1:18:26

show up for you because a lot of women. You

1:18:29

should see me play with my balls Mindy.

1:18:35

You don't put that to my kids. My grandkids are 23

1:18:37

and 21. They'll be like

1:18:39

mom you're like a grown kid. And

1:18:43

I'm like yeah there's like this little kid

1:18:45

in me sometimes that doesn't want to work

1:18:47

doesn't want to do anything. He just wants

1:18:49

to goof around. So I'm trying

1:18:51

to learn how to bring her out more

1:18:54

because the adult life made her quite serious.

1:18:56

I love hearing that you have that playfulness

1:18:58

is your superpower. It's beautiful. Well

1:19:01

thank you and we will send everybody

1:19:04

to tune up fitness.com and get your

1:19:06

books and I have several people listening

1:19:08

to this probably already received a present

1:19:10

from me. So I appreciate you too.

1:19:13

Thank you Mindy. Keep up the good

1:19:15

work. Thank you. You too.

1:19:18

Thank you so much for joining

1:19:20

me in today's episode. I love

1:19:23

bringing thoughtful discussions about all things

1:19:25

health to you. If

1:19:27

you enjoyed it we'd love to know about

1:19:29

it. So please leave us a review. Share

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