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1:23

now. Hello

1:37

and welcome to the rest is money with me, Steph

1:39

McGovern. I'm with me, Robert Paxton. So we have

1:41

another fabulous guest for you. And today's can claim

1:44

he's done something that no one else has in

1:46

the last 150 years. He

1:49

started his own bank. Dave Fishwick

1:51

started Burnley Savings and Loans in

1:53

2011. And he

1:55

did this to try and provide peer

1:57

to peer lending in the local community,

1:59

which was his. he was inspired to do because

2:01

he could see that there were lots of

2:03

small businesses and people where he lived who

2:05

were struggling to borrow money because of their

2:08

poor credit histories. Since then he's

2:10

provided over £30 million in

2:12

loans and he donates all of

2:14

the profits from the interest to charity.

2:17

And yet he doesn't have a background in finance

2:20

at all. He left school at 16, built

2:22

up his own business selling secondhand vans and

2:24

minibuses. And if all

2:26

of this sounds familiar, it's because you

2:29

might have watched it on the telly.

2:31

He actually had his story adapted for

2:33

a Netflix film starring Rory Keneer as

2:35

him. It's called The Bank

2:37

of Dave. So yeah, loads to talk

2:39

to him about everything from entrepreneurship, community

2:41

finance and the state of banking in the

2:44

UK. So I mean, there's loads to talk to

2:46

him about, isn't there Robert? Yeah, there is. And I have to

2:48

say, we talked a bit about, you

2:50

know, how the establishment stops change. I think it

2:52

is important to point out that although you say

2:54

it's the first bank to technically he's not a

2:57

bank, he hasn't got a license. And, you know,

2:59

some would say it's a bit of a scandal

3:01

that the Bank of England hasn't yet given him

3:03

a license. And we'll talk to him a bit

3:06

about that. David,

3:10

it's lovely to see you. You and I have

3:12

had several chats over the years. And I remember

3:14

the last time I saw you was when the

3:16

film about your life was about to come out.

3:18

And it's been a mega success, hasn't it? And

3:20

you're what you're doing the film in the second

3:23

one now, aren't they? Yeah, the

3:25

first one ended up being Netflix's

3:27

biggest hit, the biggest independent British

3:29

hit they've ever had. And

3:31

the second one was the fastest commission Netflix

3:34

move in their history. So it was the

3:36

fastest commission one they've ever done the sequel.

3:38

So it was shall we do one? Yes, we shall. And then very

3:41

quickly, we'll do another. Yeah. I mean, how weird has

3:44

it been having a film made about your life? Because

3:46

this is all about you and Bank of Dave. And

3:48

we're going to get into all of that and how

3:50

it all started. But just now, like how weird is

3:52

it that someone's played you and played your wife and

3:54

played your mates and your family? I mean, they were

3:56

in my house up to a few weeks ago filming

3:58

the second one and it's really weird. When you're upstairs,

4:01

it's half past six in the morning, you get out

4:03

of bed and taking your jamas off and getting dressed

4:05

and downstairs to shout in action. And

4:08

there's a guy downstairs that looks more like you than

4:10

you do, plain new, with

4:12

your wife that's downstairs that's actually in bed next to

4:14

you. And there's pictures all over

4:16

the house of them, not me. When

4:19

you come down in the morning and see it

4:21

above the fireplace, that is very, very strange. Very

4:23

surreal. So take us back to the

4:25

beginning then, Div, of how this all

4:27

started. Because you were, you loved cars,

4:29

didn't you? And it was cars, vehicles,

4:32

minibuses that got you to all of them. Yeah, and let's go to

4:34

16. Absolutely useless, no

4:36

qualifications whatsoever. And

4:38

I ended up on a building site. My parents had no

4:40

money whatsoever, we had to work. So I was on a

4:42

building site, it's a builder's laborer. Between

4:44

30 and 40 pound a week on the YTS, I've

4:47

got a wage packet here that my mom kept from

4:49

all them years ago, which I'll share with you and

4:52

the listeners after on the website.

4:55

And it's 40 odd pounds, including overtime. So

4:57

I went from builder's laborer to building

4:59

the Fusnoy High Street Bank for 150

5:02

years in Britain. And along the way,

5:04

I wanted to get involved in cars. I loved cars,

5:06

but I couldn't afford a gallon of petrol. How

5:08

do you buy a car with no money? You've

5:11

got to think outside the box. You know, I

5:13

went around all the garages, I got one of them

5:15

to lend me an old pot exchange, I cleaned it,

5:18

I scrubbed it, I sold it for a hundred quid,

5:20

I brought them the agreed amount of money, which you

5:22

wanted 70 pounds returning, which were a lot 35 years

5:24

ago. And I asked him,

5:26

could I do it again? He said, of course you can, you've paid

5:28

me. So I did it again and again and

5:30

again, until I didn't want to buy the first car. So

5:33

at night, I was scrubbing cars up and cleaning them

5:35

through the day, I was working on the building site.

5:38

And then I decided to kick the sticks away

5:40

and start working for myself. So very,

5:42

very early in the morning, I run the

5:44

markets at Manchester selling t-shirts, sweatshirts, anything I

5:46

could buy cheap. And through the day

5:48

I was doing the cars up. And at night, I

5:50

used to race down the motorway up the steps of

5:53

the nightclub, and I'd put a book of records in

5:55

each hand and straight in there, just showing you a

5:57

good evening. Welcome on, where else could you be? It's

5:59

Friday through the... Saturday morning, I was a DJ,

6:01

so I worked three jobs. I

6:03

loved it, I did. I

6:06

love the DJ boys. I did. Seth

6:08

McGum, of course Robert Preston, and the

6:10

rest is money. Where else could you be? Welcome

6:13

along. There you go. So

6:15

Dave, you know, I love the vehicles, you're building up

6:18

this business, and then it was, it was minibuses where

6:20

it really was. Somebody rang me and they said, you

6:22

know, Dave, I've no cars for you this week, but

6:24

first, because first it was vans. No cars this week,

6:26

but I've got this whole van. I

6:28

thought vans, they've got cement and things, and

6:32

they took a lot of cleaning, but you know,

6:34

back then people bought vans from farm yards. They

6:36

didn't buy vans from these shiny big showrooms that's

6:38

there now. So I thought,

6:40

do you know what? Let's have a go.

6:42

And in life, you never know when these opportunities

6:45

come and you've got to grab them with both

6:47

hands. So I went along, I scrubbed the van

6:49

up, I cleaned it, I advertised it, I had

6:51

a phone about this big and for the listeners,

6:54

that's about two foot long. It was a Motorola 8000. Oh,

6:56

I remember when I was first to come, a reporter was

6:59

on the independent. There was

7:01

one mobile phone for the entire newsroom.

7:03

And, you know, it was my joy

7:05

to be able to take it home.

7:08

We could. Yeah, and ring

7:11

somebody. On the mobile phone. I

7:13

mean, it was, you know, it was so exciting. And it cost so

7:15

much to ring though. That was a problem, but then it was about

7:17

three quid to ring somebody. But

7:19

if it wrong, it was important. So

7:22

I advertised the van. I had a mobile phone

7:24

because I was always out the office. And

7:27

I got this phone call at six o'clock in the morning on Thursday

7:29

when the auto trader came out. I'm ringing about

7:32

the van. I thought, van, oh yeah,

7:34

yeah, they're Astromax. Yeah, I'd like to come and buy it.

7:36

They come and bought it. Do you know what?

7:38

10 minutes later, another phone call. I'm ringing

7:41

about the van. The van, the van. Eureka.

7:44

Vans. That was the future.

7:46

Them bank cars got rid of all the cars.

7:48

They start with vans. Got me selling little pitch.

7:52

Got some vans, started to sell them. Are

7:54

you still on your own basically at this point? Or have you

7:56

got employees? Well, my

7:58

dear wife, Mrs. She

8:01

is so wonderful. And I

8:03

met Mrs. F through when I was DJing. She

8:05

come over to me in the nightclub and says,

8:07

excuse me, you're playing rubbish records. And

8:10

I said, well, come and have a look in me box. And

8:12

I let her look through my record box and that's

8:15

how we met Robert. But my dear wife. So

8:17

she was honest. I like that. You know, she was

8:19

amazing. And I were playing rubbish records because I didn't have any

8:21

money for good ones. Yeah. I used to go down

8:24

the flea market by pounds of the records, which were 10 pence each, 10

8:26

old records. Give me something new to play each week. And

8:28

the records back then were two and three quid a piece.

8:30

You wrote 10 of them. That where your wages go. Yeah.

8:33

So you were with your wife. I don't know if you were

8:35

married then, but so with the many of us business, what was

8:37

happening to you is still on your own. Well, she came. I

8:40

invited her down to the garage a few days

8:42

after she said I were playing rubbish records. And

8:44

she turned up in this. You invited her to

8:46

a garage for a date. Yeah. So

8:49

my little garage, I rent a little pitch with about

8:51

12 old rusty cars and vans and stuff on it.

8:53

And she came along in this lovely Citroen car. And

8:55

I've got a point here and ladies, when you listen

8:58

to this now, this is the secret to a man's

9:00

heart. It is right here, too, ladies. So I come

9:02

running out. I saw this new Citroen diesel car and

9:04

I said, can I look under the bonnet? She thought

9:06

that were a bit strange. And

9:08

I thought, that's it. I ran back in my little port

9:10

of cabin, got my junk leads, connected it to this diesel battery

9:18

and junk leaded every single car on

9:20

my pitch. And I

9:22

thought, wow, because none of the batteries worked on

9:25

my old cars. So I thought she's a caper,

9:27

the diesel battery with a Zikra. And

9:29

we've been together 28 years. And

9:32

she features in the film with you as well. The

9:34

business now, where are we at with it? So you've

9:36

got the minibus business, but you get to a point

9:39

where it's really successful, don't you? Yeah.

9:41

Well, we go from vans and then I get the phone call by

9:43

the bus. I thought, I don't want a 30 foot long bus that's

9:46

12 foot wide and 12 foot high and loads of seats. But

9:48

sometimes, like I said earlier in life, when an

9:50

opportunity comes, you've got to grab it with both

9:53

hands. So I bought it. I

9:55

scrubbed it. I cleaned it. I advertised it. Guess

9:58

what? I'm ringing about the bus. The bus. And

10:00

let me tell you that was a good

10:02

decisions because today on the largest supplier many

10:04

buses in the country so you never know

10:07

when that's coming. He asked you've. Got a

10:09

successful business but. Then. Get

10:11

into the point where you sign up a

10:13

bank. This is to do with the people

10:15

in your community. Wasn't it needed help? You

10:18

start to see people struggling. Well people come

10:20

along to Bible says off my and Isis

10:22

silver forms in send them off to the

10:24

local bank in the bank could give them

10:26

alone to Bible some an overnight that stopped

10:28

the banks to stop lending to Paypal so

10:30

so have they done something wrong of this

10:33

got a C C J of they're not

10:35

paid a bill but you know what? Guess

10:37

the do nothing wrong. It was the problem

10:39

of the banks. Just decided that. In. One that

10:41

sort of business same order to stop lennon into

10:43

fab nice or two thousand seven two thousand or

10:45

it's a sequence a where credit crunch and they

10:47

just decided to the want to lend to real

10:49

people anymore. Also believe in these paypal and an

10:52

oldie bi coastal built the bulls on all the

10:54

gonna do with it. Didn't pick kids up from

10:56

school in i'm in the gonna go under the

10:58

sag parties and then parties and nice so I

11:00

thought a lot on island in the morning there

11:02

was a been ordered period. We as we really

11:04

were as yeah we were waiting on so many

11:06

businesses it couldn't burrow. It was really. Yet and

11:08

any of his business is that when I hundreds of

11:10

years old as well as Sydney when good for the

11:12

money Love Dogs was told that I'm on. Some of

11:14

these most drivers have been up to thirty

11:17

forty fifty years. You know that that looks

11:19

the bull. Still gonna pick the kids of

11:21

in the morning, Isis silent and the money

11:23

they paid me back and tomorrow but despite

11:25

him a lot here. So this is old

11:27

so this is basically you're just you go

11:29

bank account. He got some caution and you'll

11:32

just blending your own saving. At that point

11:34

I was lending my own money and they

11:36

will pay me but I saw and am

11:38

I watch Will and all thousands. I mean

11:40

a a boss. he's averaging twenty thirty grams

11:42

saw island many on to the thousands glamour.

11:45

but you must be do pretty well he'd

11:47

accumulate quality over the years of in all

11:49

went from some vehicles to to proper say

11:51

you know once and that the logical may

11:54

have in america now you know so it

11:56

wasn't just we we invest in in very

11:58

solid stocks and shares and and things

12:00

that really make sense. And that's

12:02

the biggest thing I've got. And that grew from very

12:04

small beginnings, because that's another thing the

12:07

banks think they're the only people good at. And

12:09

if I'll add from burning, we're no qualifications, if

12:11

I can do it, then anybody can. Yeah. So

12:14

I thought to myself, well, it's not good just lending

12:16

people money for buses. How do I help other businesses

12:18

in my community? Because none of them could borrow any

12:20

money. So I thought, well, I'll start a little bank.

12:23

And that's how it started. That's where I got the idea

12:25

from. I thought I can help other people. And

12:28

the idea being that you would lend the money,

12:30

you would charge them interest with you and then...

12:32

Well, this is the idea. I wanted to

12:34

open a community bank, run by the community

12:36

to benefit the community rather than the bonus

12:39

culture. I thought, right, okay, I

12:41

want to give Granny the best rate

12:43

of interest on the high street. I then want to lend that

12:45

to people who can't borrow from the high street bank through no

12:47

fault of their own. And the profit after the overheads were paid,

12:50

I want to give the difference to charity. I

12:52

thought, it can't be that difficult. I

12:55

want to open a tiny, tiny bank. But let me

12:57

tell you, that was 13 years

12:59

ago. And it's been one of the most

13:01

difficult things I've ever, ever

13:03

been involved in because there's so many big

13:05

organizations that just do not want it to

13:08

happen. So I think it's important at this

13:10

point just to sort of talk to

13:12

those listening about what a

13:15

bank is in a sort of definitional

13:17

sense. And what I mean by that

13:19

is that you cannot call yourself a

13:21

bank. You cannot take deposits unless you

13:23

get approval from the Bank of England.

13:25

Yes, yes, you need a deposit taking

13:28

license to take money from the public.

13:30

But however, there's always

13:32

a way through the system. So you weren't at

13:35

the beginning, obviously, and might talk a bit later

13:37

about why you're still in the

13:39

process of trying to get authorized in that sense.

13:42

But explain to people what you can

13:44

do in finance without

13:47

a banking license because you were making

13:49

these loans. And then at a certain

13:51

point, you started using other people's money

13:53

to make loans. But talk to us

13:55

about what's allowed and what you've been

13:57

doing. Well, to get to that point.

14:00

I needed to go and speak to the bankers

14:02

and the head of the bankers was a guy

14:04

called Andrew Hilton. So I went to see Andrew

14:06

Hilton here in London many years ago and I

14:08

said, Andrew, I called him Mr Hilton. I said,

14:10

what was his role? He was the head of

14:12

the banking association. He was the top man. He

14:14

was the British banking association. That sort of realm

14:16

of person, you know,

14:19

he was very, very educated. And

14:22

I went to see him and he said, where are you from?

14:24

I said, I'm from Burnley. That put him off for starters. And

14:28

then from there, I said, I'd like to

14:30

open a tiny bank. And he said, what did your parents

14:32

do? And I thought, well, what's that got to do with

14:34

anything? I said, well, my dad were a farm laborer

14:36

in the morning. And in the afternoon, he worked in the

14:38

mill as a tackle fixing loons. And

14:41

he said, Oh, no, no, no. He said, what is

14:43

your mum? I said, she's a weaver. Right. And he

14:45

said, did you go talk to Dr Cambridge? Did

14:47

he actually say that? He actually said it. And if

14:49

people want to see it on my documentaries, it's

14:52

still out there, the documentaries. So I think it's

14:54

still on Netflix, the documentaries. And they can see

14:56

it. They'll see Andrew Hilton in the documentary series.

14:59

Or we can post a clip at the end of this. And

15:01

they'll be able to see him saying that. And

15:03

he said, so you've not got the correct parents, you've

15:05

not been to the correct school, and you're not from

15:07

the correct place. You said you have no chance. And

15:10

I thought, I wanted to stick him in

15:12

a wheelie bin. But I thought we'll do it anyway.

15:15

So I come back. And I worked

15:17

very hard with my writer, man, David Enshaw, who's

15:19

been 60 years in banking,

15:21

the most honest, ethical man on the planet, and

15:24

my legal team, Chris, Chris

15:26

Moss, who's been awesome, who has been

15:28

to Oxford. So the thing

15:30

is, you don't have to go to Oxford or

15:32

Cambridge, you just have to employ somebody that has.

15:36

But also, this is sort of nuts. When I

15:38

first took an interest in these things a

15:40

long time ago, the people

15:42

who actually ran the banks,

15:45

so the most famous of these was a bloke called Brian

15:47

Pittman, who ran Lloyd's,

15:50

they didn't get a university at all, right?

15:52

They were people who were indentured by the

15:54

banks. They usually joined from school at about

15:57

16 and they worked their way up

15:59

the chairman. were all very posh

16:01

and went to Eaton and you know, some of them

16:03

weren't bright enough to go to Oxford But nonetheless, you

16:05

know the people who were chairman of the big banks

16:07

were posh But the people who ran

16:09

them and this was the old days before the whole

16:12

thing got professionalized These would you know a bit like

16:14

the newspaper industry where I started people who actually ran

16:16

these businesses who did all the important work We're sort

16:18

of apprentice when they were pretty young and work their

16:20

way to the top So it's sort

16:22

of weird that by the time you're going to talk

16:24

to him and it is true that you know by

16:26

the time we get to The

16:29

financial crisis, you know, it

16:31

is a very professionalized industry and it

16:33

is true that people who were then

16:36

Making what were at the time catastrophic decisions

16:38

about how to manage banks They were you

16:40

know in inverted commas highly

16:42

educated and been to universities like Oxbridge

16:45

But my god, they mucked it up

16:47

highly educated but sick or reckless in

16:49

some yeah Well, I've got lots

16:51

of lots of views on what should be happening

16:53

in the banks and who should be running them

16:56

I mean, I'm not necessarily saying it should be

16:58

people with no qualifications like me You

17:00

know, I people say I should go into politics and

17:02

things and I've got no qualifications and to be in

17:04

politics You probably gotta got a degree. I went straight

17:07

to work How many of

17:09

you just said that what people get politics? This is

17:11

one of the problems with people who are currently in

17:13

politics. You got an experience of the world You got

17:15

to have practical knowledge. You've got that in spades I

17:17

mean, you know people like there should be people like

17:20

you in politics. Of course there should well every time

17:22

I go anywhere near that sort of Regulated world there's

17:24

somebody like mr Hilton that says you're not from the

17:26

correct school because I come from a place called Burnley

17:28

and it's the center of the universe For lots

17:30

of reasons, but it's a very very tough place

17:33

to live It's just been it's actually just been

17:35

announced that it's the most affordable place to live

17:37

in the country It's got a lot a lot

17:39

of problems, but it's a wonderful wonderful place full

17:41

of wonderful people, you know presenter of our sister

17:43

podcast would agree with Yeah, I was the Campbell's

17:45

a big Bernie fan. Yeah, I know I listed

17:48

very well He does support what we do in

17:50

a big way and we have massive

17:52

support right across all the the parliamentarians I have

17:54

a lot that coming up a pitch taken with

17:56

me at the bank a day, which is really

17:58

nice and just recently Rishi Sunak

18:00

stood up in the Houses of Parliament and

18:02

answered a question with Joe Gideon about

18:05

the Bank of Dave and he said, he didn't

18:07

use the word Bank of Dave, he actually said, firmly savings

18:09

alone. So he fully knew who I was. And

18:11

he said he really likes what I'm doing. And

18:14

he wanted me to be introduced to Andrew Griffiths,

18:16

the Treasury Secretary. And he said he would

18:18

do that. And you know what, he did exactly what he said he

18:20

would do within a few weeks, I had a meeting with Andrew Griffiths, and

18:23

then Kevin, the Business Minister

18:25

as well. And they try very

18:27

hard to help me push forward. Just to be

18:29

clear, what can they do? Because this is

18:32

a decision made by the Bank of England.

18:35

It's a process. What have the government said they'll do

18:37

to help you get your license? What we've done is

18:39

to go back to Mr Hilton. So as soon as

18:41

he said no, we found a way with my legal

18:43

team who have been to the posh schools

18:45

to work in a peer to peer lending

18:47

sort of way where we could help Granny

18:50

get the best rate of interest on the savings

18:52

and then lend it out. So tell us where

18:54

the money's coming from. Who's providing the loan? We

18:56

have millions of pounds from thousands of people in

18:58

the burning area. Some had £100. It's like a

19:00

crowdfund type thing. Well, it was more like a

19:02

peer to peer lending, but we did a hybrid

19:05

version of it. And how do you raise the

19:07

money? Is it online? What's the people come in

19:09

and they have an old fashioned, building society type

19:11

book, we write it in, we've

19:13

got all the cloud. It's written down. It's written

19:15

down. Do you know what we've got? And this

19:18

is David H, my right hand man, 60 years

19:20

in banking. He absolutely makes

19:22

sure every night everything's written down. Now

19:24

bearing in mind, we've lent

19:26

over £34 million to thousands of people and

19:28

businesses all over the UK. So it's not

19:30

a tiny operation. It's not a

19:32

big one, but it's not a tiny one. And how

19:34

do you make sure that the businesses you're lending to

19:37

are credit worthy? That's a really good question. My right

19:39

hand man, David H again, he is

19:41

a genius with manual

19:43

underwriting. Manual underwriting used to be

19:46

what banks did many years ago. The old

19:48

fashioned bank manager knew who he was. He

19:50

Knew where he lived. He knew what your business were.

19:52

And A lot of the time he went to your

19:55

christening, wedding's, birthdays. David is that person. So He's taught

19:57

my team how to look at people's people. So he

19:59

looks at people's. The What we do not credit score

20:01

some. He got a problem in the past we look at

20:03

why the by the problem and we looked if you've got

20:05

over it and. What's not been I can Sam

20:07

says you know Has that been a successful

20:09

waves. Risk. Essentially only west as it's

20:11

is we have less than five percent

20:14

been dead after nearly thirty years with

20:16

less than fab. Some by that better

20:18

than has Red Bank. I gotta just

20:20

ask if so I come to you

20:22

that say I've got a. Hundred

20:24

quid. Don't. Want to give your

20:27

thousand? Going to want to give you do

20:29

I know who you have lent the money

20:31

to? Well this is what we did of

20:33

the beginning so did appear to pale and

20:35

his game where you was giving them money

20:37

to make. Where the all right? Nope. It

20:39

was like a Bond type of peer to

20:41

peer so he was vibrating person. I personally

20:43

were at risk so I I still am

20:45

I under I every single penny that goes

20:47

for that plans to itself. Is anybody loses,

20:49

it's May so I'm what rate of interest

20:52

you pine on the Omagh. Five percent. Survey.

20:54

Five percent with the and will and out

20:56

at more than that. Starting round about seven

20:58

point nine and going op dependent on on

21:00

the risk we tickets now is some it

21:02

comes to make that doesn't need a so

21:04

prime lens and the the cleaner than the

21:06

sink the are them We were we to

21:08

hundred and fifty lenders across the country who

21:10

have very ethical and moral and will get

21:12

them into the tapes were possible com what

21:14

as and you'll send them to have another

21:16

but will work with and will actually get

21:18

them the lawns radio not not necessarily banks

21:20

but we will find the best of anyway

21:22

at a Lan event. And you

21:25

take a break his feel my yes we

21:27

get probably couple of hundred quid max less

21:29

that on liquid or non some of the

21:31

other things and that is given away. I

21:33

just to be clear your personally at risk

21:35

but I think you earlier said. All.

21:39

profits to give to charities our profits as

21:41

to over as a given away right and

21:43

a un overhead do charge the best known

21:45

for twelve and off he is nearly thirteen

21:47

years i've not tennis and is a reason

21:49

for the us is there is no bonuses

21:51

paid about seven months and i have not

21:53

a penny on purpose or got millions of

21:55

pounds my i'm wanting the and i'm not

21:57

panics i truly believe in what i'm doing

22:00

But you're presumably making a return on the money anyway.

22:03

I don't make personally, I make nothing. Not one

22:05

penny. So even the money that you put in...

22:07

I don't even take interest on my own money. It

22:11

goes back in... Because it's so expensive to apply

22:13

for these licenses, Robert, that it's just... You've got

22:15

to truly believe in what you're doing. And it's

22:17

not with me going on about bonuses if I'm

22:19

taking them. But can I just ask you, is

22:21

this pure philanthropy? I mean, is there... I

22:23

mean, presumably you own the institution. Yes. Is

22:26

there a world in which you sell it and you make money? Never

22:28

ever have been offered. But one of the big banks approached

22:30

me and another financial institution approached

22:32

me. And one in particular comes

22:34

to mind where they wrote a number

22:36

down on a piece of paper and slid it across and I slid

22:38

it back. And they said... They

22:40

gave me a pencil, not a pen, a pencil, which

22:42

I thought was a bit old fashioned. And they said,

22:44

write down what number you want. And I said, it

22:47

will never ever be for sale. There is no number.

22:49

I will never sell it. It will go to my

22:51

grandchildren. I have two boys. It will go

22:53

to my grandchildren and be left in

22:55

perpetuity. It will always, always be there to do

22:57

the right thing. There is still loads more to

23:00

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details. Can I ask why? Because

24:37

it sounds like it's working really well, what

24:39

you're doing. Why do you want to be

24:41

a bank? Well, the problem was

24:44

when we started the peer-to-peer system, and I

24:46

really want to get to this bit because

24:48

it's really important, when we started the peer-to-peer

24:50

system and we then took the risk, it

24:53

was working perfectly. We had a £12 million boat. We

24:55

had about £12 million out. We

24:58

had less than 5% bad debt. Granny were getting the best rate

25:00

of interest. It was wonderful. And then all of

25:02

a sudden, the regulation changed

25:04

for peer-to-peer lending. Now I

25:06

was working on a hybrid peer-to-peer. And

25:08

they said to me, look, Dave, cease and

25:10

desist. And I said, why? And

25:13

this is what's in the movie when they try and shut me down. And

25:16

they said, well, we've just looked at this. My documentary series had

25:18

just come out. It did really well. We ended up with BAFTAs

25:20

and all sorts of things. And the

25:23

letter come through. We were faxed. So

25:25

it was quite a few years ago. Cease and desist.

25:27

And I said, what's the problem? If you're doing

25:29

this peer-to-peer hybrid system that your lawyers have designed,

25:32

we need you to put risk in it for Granny.

25:35

Granny has to take the risk. You cannot longer take

25:37

the risk. If you take the risk, you'll go to

25:40

prison. Granny has to take the risk. You're

25:42

mad. After all what's happened in 2008, and

25:44

all these people have lost this money, you

25:46

want me to give an 80-year-old lady the

25:49

risk. I chopped my left leg off first. So

25:51

that is when the fighting started. And that is

25:53

when I fought back in a

25:56

big way. And where are you at with it

25:58

now then? Do you think you're going to get a license? Well,

26:00

where we're at now is we're allowed to

26:02

take certain money off certain people in certain

26:04

industries. So I'm allowed to take money from

26:06

businesses, I'm allowed to take money from limited

26:09

companies, I'm allowed to take money from

26:11

people who earn a certain amount of

26:13

money. With professional investors. Yeah. Well, just

26:15

business. What I like to do is

26:18

I like to look for business people, high net worths

26:20

in the in the Lancashire area that are

26:22

able to give me the money

26:24

that they want to be lent out in that

26:26

area. I like to take money from Lancashire and

26:28

lend it out in Lancashire. And

26:31

it's business money that people have done okay in life and they've

26:33

put some back in. Now, we have

26:35

the licenses to do everything we want.

26:37

We've got tons of licenses about anti

26:39

money laundering, like all these new

26:41

things now about car finance and people been that's

26:43

going to be a huge thing. And I'll come

26:45

back and talk to you about that because nobody's

26:47

really talking about what what that really means. I

26:49

really understand what that really means. And there's an

26:51

awful lot of big companies that are going to

26:53

they're going to have a real problem. And

26:56

we're not one of them. It rolled down to taking commissions

26:58

based on the amount of interest you charge people.

27:01

Yeah, shocking. It was really bad. And nobody's

27:03

talking about that. Yeah. But I know Martin's

27:05

done so Martin's Martin's amazing. Martin. Yeah, I

27:07

know Martin very well. I work with him

27:10

on GMB and this morning. And he's wonderful.

27:13

But I can really, really open that up.

27:15

That is going to be a storm that's

27:18

on its way. Because I remember being in the

27:20

garage, and one of the big banks coming along

27:22

to me, so one of my mini bus garages

27:24

and saying to me, look, if you

27:26

get this person on this amount of interest, we'll give you

27:28

this. I said, you better get out quickly. You

27:31

know, they don't understand about customer service.

27:33

They just don't. What is it then

27:35

that makes you do what you do? What makes you tick?

27:38

Like, why are you doing all this? Well,

27:40

back to the bank manager coming to the garage again, when

27:42

they've been given that money by the government, and they come

27:44

to me and said, Look, Dave, we've been given this money

27:46

to give out to businesses, we don't actually want to give

27:48

it to anybody that's not going to give it as bank.

27:50

So we want to give it to people, we're definitely going

27:52

to get it back. I said, Well, I don't need any

27:55

money. Yeah, but I know you don't, but you can have

27:57

it really cheap and you can do something with it. I

27:59

said you need to. and lend it to the people it's been given to

28:01

you to lend out. There's so

28:03

many wrong things going on in the financial

28:05

world at the moment. When

28:08

I was listening to your podcast, it made

28:10

me think about we could

28:12

really dig down into some of these things over the

28:15

coming months and years because

28:17

I really, really do see it. The letters

28:19

I get, I mean I've had a letter

28:21

recently asking for a loan for baby milk,

28:23

for formula. So on one side you've

28:26

got bankers bonuses being uncapped. That's what the

28:28

government's thinking is a good idea at the

28:30

minute. Tens of millions of pounds bonuses. If we don't pay

28:32

them that, they're going to go because they're the best. Well,

28:34

I say get rid of them because they've not done very

28:36

well up to now. And then the other

28:38

side, they're writing to me, can I have a loan for baby

28:40

milk? I wish I'd given them the money. But

28:43

then I get a school, primary schooling,

28:45

call and a headmist just writing to me

28:47

saying, look, the children are coming to school

28:49

starving, David. Is there anything you can do?

28:52

I said, send me a list of what

28:54

you need. And they sent me a list of kitchen equipment. We

28:57

got it all straight away, sent it. And then I said,

28:59

send me a list of what food you need. So I

29:01

said, how much you need for a year's food? She told

29:03

me. I said, three months before it runs out, bring

29:05

me again. Now in October, she run me again

29:07

because it was going to be the end of

29:09

the year. And I've just bought another year's supply

29:11

of food. I feed 330 children every morning. That's

29:14

what the bank of Dave does. So on one

29:16

side, you've got bankers bonuses being uncapped. And on

29:18

this side, children are coming to school starving because

29:20

of the credit crunch. The world's

29:22

mad. I mean, the thing that is a

29:24

scandal is here you are doing, you know,

29:27

what one would like to see businesses

29:30

in general doing, which is taking

29:32

social responsibility. But what

29:34

did you say? Your total loans are 30 million, 34 million,

29:36

34 million. I mean, truthfully,

29:39

it's a drop in the ocean

29:41

of, you know, banks whose balance

29:44

sheets are a trillion. Yes, yes. And,

29:46

and so I mean, it's great that

29:48

you are making a difference. But,

29:51

you know, you're a drop in the ocean.

29:53

But the problem is somebody like Diane's dog

29:55

biscuits, Diane, who makes dog biscuits for dogs

29:57

who could not borrow from anybody else. She

30:00

comes along, she ended up having one

30:02

of those letter meters fitted and it

30:04

burnt the house down and she

30:06

was making dog biscuits in the house, sorry

30:09

in the shop part of the house and she

30:11

needed to get back on her feet so

30:13

I'll enter the money to get going again. We

30:15

bought ovens and we've bought kitchen equipment and we've

30:17

got her back on the road again and now

30:19

she's about to employ somebody. She's about to open

30:21

a little shop but they're the ones that we

30:24

help. Did you try and get help from the

30:26

banks? Yes, yes. And they all said no. They're

30:28

not interested. What the banks want to do is

30:30

they want to give you nothing in interest. They

30:33

want to send that money abroad. They want to make

30:35

fortunes with it with using what I call financial weapons

30:37

of mass destruction which is credit default

30:39

swaps and so be it and so on that

30:41

and then if it wins, they make a fortune.

30:44

If it loses, the taxpayer bails

30:46

them out. It's like banks who

30:48

rob people get paid bonuses but

30:50

people who rob banks go to prison and

30:53

the world just really needs to change. The

30:56

banks would argue that, I

30:58

guess to Robert's point, if what you do

31:00

is great but it's on a very small

31:02

scale and they need to think about this

31:05

on a much bigger picture because the risk is

31:07

greater and there will be lots of businesses who

31:09

are well supported by traditional banks. Do

31:11

you have a vision for how

31:15

your approach to banking,

31:18

given the enormous vested interest we're going

31:20

to have to overcome, but your approach

31:22

to banking could be rolled out so

31:25

that it's about more than your

31:28

local community so that

31:30

we see this kind

31:32

of focus on

31:34

the genuine needs both

31:37

of savers and borrowers

31:40

that we literally haven't seen for 100 years. David

31:43

Enshaw, Joe Gedian and the politicians

31:45

at the moment, with myself and

31:47

Chris Moss, we are working with the government

31:49

on looking at how it can be done

31:51

and ferociously protective over it because what I

31:53

don't want to do is for somebody to

31:55

go and take money off granite and

31:58

spend it. So my idea is that this. There's

32:00

lots of entrepreneurs across the country who has done

32:03

well in their town or their city, like

32:05

where you're from Steph. There's people up there that

32:07

have done really well. They could put

32:10

their hand in their pocket and probably will do if

32:13

it's going to that area and it's

32:15

going to be given back to that area. I was out

32:17

in Australia a few months ago with them over and

32:20

in Australia it's exactly the same problem as here

32:22

in Billabong. It's exactly the same as

32:25

what's happening here. There's miners in them

32:27

places across the world in Australia where

32:29

they've got money. They need to

32:31

stand next to every loan. They need to

32:33

be the person that stands next to the loan. If you put

32:35

a bank of Debe or a bank of Steph or a bank

32:37

of Robert in each one of the 1,000 large

32:40

towns and cities across the UK, all lending out

32:42

over the next few years 30 odd million, that

32:45

then gets to billions. That

32:47

then solves the problem of

32:49

community banking. Well,

32:51

if anyone can do it, you can. I just

32:53

mentioned one last thing, the rise and

32:55

rise of the loan shark. I've just

32:58

done a big piece on loan sharks and

33:01

it's got 17 million views. What's

33:04

happening is community banks are closing 54

33:07

banks a month. That's

33:09

one this morning and one this afternoon.

33:11

Now because the cash machines are closing,

33:13

the high street's descending into chaos. Shops

33:16

are closing so people don't have anywhere to get the money from.

33:19

Now people are going to pubs and things. If somebody's there

33:21

with £500 or £1000 in the pocket, they're getting

33:24

it. Now if you look on my Twitter

33:26

or my TikTok at bank of David or

33:28

at Fishwick David, you will see that piece.

33:30

You can just Google it. You can see

33:32

that piece. I met a real loan shark

33:35

who hurts people and I

33:37

wanted to see why

33:39

and how he's operating. I

33:41

wanted to see how bad it is to be

33:43

able to see how we can fix it. He

33:45

says, I hurt people, Dave. He

33:47

said, why did he tell you this? He

33:49

met me because he hates the banks and

33:51

he thinks the banks shutting down are

33:53

increasing his business tenfold. It's the rise and

33:56

rise of the loan shark. So this banking

33:58

thing isn't just about big banks. small

34:00

banks, whatever. Post offices, that's

34:02

not good because they've sell postage stamps and birthday

34:04

cards. So they can't be banks. The hubs, they've

34:06

only opened 30 out of the 100 of the

34:09

spots they've opened. So it's the rise of the

34:11

lawn shark and the payday lawns, which

34:13

is where the Netflix movie goes. And it is,

34:15

as you say, it's a massive social problem and

34:17

it's brilliant that you're highlighting it. I've been slightly

34:19

staggered in recent times that people have just pretended

34:21

it's not that. Yeah, and that's why I wanted

34:23

to meet one on camera, for

34:25

real, to prove

34:27

they're there. Well, we talked

34:30

about it, I can't remember what episode it was, a few

34:32

episodes ago, about how they're not the people you might think

34:35

they are anymore either. It might be there was a woman

34:37

wasn't there who was like a grammy who was arrested

34:40

and charged with found guilty of being

34:42

a lawn shark. That's right, and the

34:44

sexiest, the pensioners, women pensioners with

34:47

the team come along and they hurt

34:49

you if you don't pay. Now that's what's going to

34:51

happen. If we don't get community banking, that's what's going

34:53

to happen. And that's why I'm going out to America

34:55

next week to talk to them about it. Yeah, but

34:57

what I want to know as well is, do you still DJ? You

35:02

know what, I'd love to come back for

35:04

one night only. I think it should be,

35:06

what about the Rest Is Money anniversary party?

35:08

Yes, the Rest Is Money anniversary party. He's

35:10

going to be joining us. Dedication request,

35:12

come and see us if we've got it, we'll play

35:14

it for you. That might be an appropriate moment to

35:16

wind up. I think it will definitely. Thank you for

35:18

coming in for a chat. And come

35:21

back and talk to us about the

35:23

scandal of car finance. Yes. Excellent.

35:25

Well done. Right. That's it from us

35:28

on The Rest Is Money. Bye bye.

35:30

Bye bye. Bye bye.