0:02

And hello to you, and welcome to

0:04

the Richard Nicholls Podcast. The

0:06

personal development podcast series

0:09

that's here to help inspire, educate,

0:11

and motivate you to be the best

0:14

you can be. I'm

0:16

psychotherapist Richard Nicholls, and this

0:18

episode is titled, It's

0:20

Good To Talk. And

0:23

if you're ready, we'll start

0:25

the show. Hey,

0:30

how's it going? Actually, just

0:33

think about me asking that for a moment.

0:35

Imagine we're friends, and you spot

0:37

me in a pub, or a coffee

0:40

shop, or even in the middle aisle at

0:42

Aldi. Standing somewhere between a lawnmower,

0:44

a Peppa Pig jigsaw and a unicycle. We

0:47

make eye contact and we smile at

0:49

each other and we walk towards each other. So

0:51

then I say, Hey, how's

0:54

it going? What do you

0:56

say? How do you reply? Because

0:58

I bet you a 35 quid Aldi unicycle

1:01

that you say, Fine thanks, how

1:03

are you? Just like that. Fine,

1:05

thanks. How are you? Fine,

1:08

thanks. Really? Well,

1:11

I mean, maybe you are, but if everyone

1:14

who said they were fine actually

1:17

was, we wouldn't also

1:19

have 8 percent of everybody in the UK

1:21

meeting the diagnostic criteria for

1:23

anxiety and depression at any

1:25

one time. So, not everyone

1:28

is fine. Yet

1:30

we don't like to be honest about

1:32

that, do we? And I get that there's a time

1:34

and a place. And to be fair,

1:36

the middle isle of Aldi amongst all the menagerie

1:39

of power tools and minion toys is

1:41

probably not the best place to say

1:44

You know what? I've been better, mate. I feel

1:46

a bit hopeless lately. Life's a bit meaningless,

1:48

if I'm fair. We want to save that

1:51

for a more intimate environment, don't

1:53

we? But a lot of people don't

1:55

do that either. Yet

1:57

it's no secret that talking about how

2:00

we're feeling is good for us. Now,

2:03

if you're listening to this on the day of release,

2:05

it's the 1st of February, which is Time

2:07

to Talk Day. And that was launched

2:10

10 years ago today. by Time

2:12

to Change, a campaign to end mental

2:15

health stigma and discrimination,

2:17

which was run by MIND,

2:19

the mental health charity, and

2:21

Rethink Mental Illness. Now,

2:24

after 10 years, have

2:27

we moved forwards much? I

2:29

really hope so, because the phrase,

2:32

it's good to talk, has been kicking

2:34

around for decades, even outside of

2:36

the mental health world. And

2:38

maybe we can thank the British Telecom

2:40

adverts in the mid 90s with Bob Hoskins.

2:43

But we've known since the times of Freud

2:46

over a hundred years ago that

2:48

talking about how we feel and exploring

2:51

the experiences we had that led

2:53

us to develop those feelings

2:56

helps us to feel better. Back

2:59

in 1886, Sigmund Freud

3:02

was genuinely ridiculed,

3:05

though, by his fellow doctors for

3:07

claiming that men could feel anxious,

3:10

and I'm not joking. At that point,

3:13

in Europe anyway, being anxious

3:16

or displaying hysteria,

3:18

as they called it, was only

3:21

a woman's problem. It couldn't be a man's.

3:24

And that's an idea that had been kicking around for

3:27

over 3, 000

3:29

years, that we know of, literally

3:31

3, 000 years, we're

3:34

talking Ancient Egyptians here,

3:36

1400 BCE,

3:39

with the idea of The uterus

3:42

was the cause of anxiety.

3:45

Hystericus is Latin for of

3:47

the womb, you see. So all these

3:49

years later, even in the 1880s,

3:52

being hysterical, being

3:55

emotional was a physical

3:57

problem due to the uterus,

4:00

which then creates this feminisation of

4:02

emotion, which has been passed down

4:05

the generations every 25

4:07

years or so, and it is still around

4:09

today. So, think

4:11

about it. Actually, no, don't think.

4:13

Just react without thinking. If

4:16

someone says to you, which

4:18

gender is more emotional, men

4:20

or women? Where does your brain go?

4:23

It goes to women, doesn't it? Yet I'm sure

4:25

you do know that emotions

4:28

are a human thing. It's not

4:30

gendered in any way. It's not a feminine

4:32

thing. It's just about being human.

4:35

So exploring how we feel is great for everybody,

4:38

and talking about it really does

4:40

help. Freud knew it 130

4:43

years ago. And the people who taught him

4:45

knew it. And in 1995, Bob

4:48

Hoskins knew it. When he said in those old

4:50

BT adverts, it's good to talk.

4:53

But why, almost 30 years later

4:55

from that, are we still finding

4:57

it hard? Well, like I say,

4:59

existing ideas get passed down

5:02

the generations every 25

5:04

years or so. So maybe the 25

5:06

year olds are finding it easier

5:09

than their parents. But the

5:12

average age in the UK is 40,

5:14

so it's going to take a bit longer. And in the meantime,

5:17

if 40 is the average, that

5:19

means there are way more people over 25 than

5:23

under it by a huge percentage.

5:25

And even then, the 25 and unders

5:28

are still going to be getting problems because of the conflict

5:30

between what they see in the media about

5:33

valuing emotions and the benefits

5:35

of talking and so on, and maybe

5:37

what their parents and caregivers modelled

5:40

to them about how to be human,

5:43

about what's right and what's inappropriate.

5:46

And if the message that all these people have

5:49

been getting all their life is admitting

5:51

you have emotions is bad,

5:55

then talking about it won't feel

5:57

safe. But

5:59

not talking about it means

6:02

holding the emotions inside and

6:04

feeling anxious and depressed

6:07

or inferior and belittled

6:09

or whatever somebody feels. And

6:12

it sticks. Those

6:14

feelings stick with us until

6:16

they get hardwired in due to

6:18

repetition and they become part of

6:21

our personality. We want to try

6:23

and avoid that. Now, I

6:25

may well be preaching to the converted,

6:27

you may well be all about the importance

6:30

of opening up, but one,

6:34

I think a lot of you know it, but still

6:36

might not feel safe doing it. And

6:38

two, we need to model

6:40

it to others. So that we

6:42

can dilute down and neutralise

6:45

any messages that they've picked up throughout

6:47

their life and childhood in particular

6:49

that says that talking about your

6:51

issues isn't safe. We

6:54

need to prove that it is

6:56

good to talk. And we can do

6:59

that by talking,

7:01

by demonstrating. But

7:03

that's not always enough. We might also have

7:05

to actually teach people. And you

7:07

don't need to be a therapist to do this. Just

7:10

having conversations about mental

7:12

health in general is good.

7:14

If you're going to sit round a table in a pub and

7:16

chat to your mates about it, you've got to talk

7:19

about something, so at least make it useful. You've

7:21

only got to have about, let's be honest here, statistics

7:24

do show this. You've only got to have about four

7:27

other people in your group to

7:29

almost guarantee that one

7:31

of them is struggling with something anyway right

7:33

now, let alone what somebody might be going

7:35

through in the future. But

7:38

we don't need to be in a bad state to

7:40

hear this stuff. I'd much rather

7:42

people knew these things beforehand.

7:46

Maybe then they don't even get into that bad

7:48

state in the first place then. So

7:51

when you sit down with someone and

7:53

you ask them how they are and they

7:55

say, Fine, thanks.

7:57

How are you? And you say, Yeah,

8:00

fine as well. You know, just plodding on.

8:02

That's the perfect chance. To

8:05

bring up the fact that Fine

8:09

is just something we say

8:11

out of habit, even when

8:13

we're not fine. So talk

8:15

about that. Laugh about

8:17

that. Even if you are actually

8:20

fine, say that. Say,

8:22

fine, fine, plodding on, but hey,

8:25

doesn't everybody just say that they're fine out of

8:27

habit even when we're not? And then

8:29

you talk about it. And

8:31

if someone then says, Well,

8:34

I find it really hard to talk about how I feel.

8:36

It's just how I was brought up. You

8:39

know that even

8:42

if you said nothing else,

8:45

you've already achieved something. You've

8:47

already made a difference in that

8:50

person's life. Just in them

8:52

saying that, just in them

8:54

admitting that, means

8:56

they've got the ball rolling. I mean, you've

8:58

got the opportunity here for a lot to happen

9:01

and sometimes it will do and sometimes it won't.

9:04

It's context dependent, isn't it? It

9:06

depends on the circumstances. But

9:08

on those occasions where you are able to

9:10

say, Well,

9:13

I was listening to this bloke on his podcast

9:15

and he said, Blah,

9:17

blah, blah, blah, blah. You can then have some amazing

9:19

conversations. You can talk

9:21

about how it's normal to feel

9:24

awkward talking about things that make

9:26

us uncomfortable. That we're

9:28

overriding a lifetime

9:31

of belief about the dangers

9:33

of vulnerability. But it

9:35

makes absolute sense that

9:37

being vulnerable is scary.

9:40

Whether that's vulnerable to prey

9:42

or vulnerable to ridicule. It's

9:45

scary, and that's okay.

9:49

We need to feel the fear

9:51

and say it anyway. We

9:53

all need to know that social

9:55

interactions will strengthen

9:57

our ability to process our problems.

10:01

Feeling connected to the people around

10:03

us boosts our sense of value.

10:05

Being heard, being

10:08

listened to, being understood.

10:11

It pushes a button in the brain that says,

10:14

I'm safe. And

10:16

the more times that button gets pushed,

10:19

the easier it gets to push it

10:21

again and again. Now,

10:24

this button here, you know, it might be a bit stiff

10:27

at first. It might have got

10:29

a bit of dust and muck in it from years of not being

10:31

pushed at all. But each time

10:33

it's pushed, it frees

10:35

it up that little bit more. So

10:38

feeling safe gets easier

10:40

and easier until feeling safe is

10:42

second nature. It's just part of your personality

10:45

to be okay with vulnerability

10:48

and differentiate between genuine

10:50

life threatening things and the things

10:53

that make us anxious but are actually perfectly

10:55

okay in the big scheme of things. It

10:58

might take time, but you've

11:00

got to remember, we're literally rewiring

11:03

our brains here. That does

11:05

take time. And alongside

11:07

that, we've got to deal with the

11:09

stigma of having a mental

11:12

health problem. And

11:14

I know it's getting better, but it's

11:16

still out there. In

11:18

fact, in one study from a couple of years ago,

11:21

9 out of 10 people who were

11:23

struggling with their mental health problems

11:25

said that they had to deal with stigma

11:27

and discrimination because of it.

11:30

9 out of 10 people.

11:33

And 60 percent of them said

11:35

that the stigma and discrimination

11:38

were equally as damaging, or

11:40

more damaging, than the symptoms

11:43

of their mental health problem in the first place.

11:46

And over a third

11:49

said that the stigma had made them give up on their

11:51

ambitions, made them give

11:53

up on their hopes, their dreams.

11:56

And almost all of those said

11:59

that the stigma had

12:01

made them want to take their own life.

12:03

The stigma of having mental

12:05

health problems. Not the depression itself,

12:08

but the stigma of it. All

12:11

because, when they were struggling,

12:14

and they told their boss or

12:16

whoever, the people around them did

12:18

not know what to do. Didn't

12:21

know how to talk to them about it.

12:23

Stopped inviting them out. Stopped

12:25

chatting with them. Stopped treating

12:28

them like a human. In

12:31

a confidential UK

12:33

survey from 2009, 56

12:36

percent said they would not employ

12:38

somebody with depression, even

12:40

if they were the best candidate for the job. They

12:43

would not want to work with them.

12:46

Now, you fast forward 15 years,

12:48

and those same 56 percent of respondents,

12:51

they're still out there. They

12:53

might still have those same beliefs.

12:56

Maybe they're being diluted down by a generation

12:59

of podcast listening legends like yourself,

13:02

but they're still out there. And one

13:04

in four of them will have developed a problem

13:07

in the last 15 years. Well,

13:10

I wonder how they handled it. Because

13:12

they had a belief that someone

13:15

with mental ill health had

13:17

less value. Couldn't be trusted.

13:20

Was gonna let people down. Well,

13:23

heads up for the self fulfilling prophecy,

13:25

folks! We've got

13:27

a lot of work to do, still, and

13:30

it needs to continue, and it genuinely

13:32

can be done! Just

13:34

by chatting to your friends about

13:37

the importance of chatting to your friends.

13:40

So, that's your homework

13:42

for this month. Whether that's Face

13:44

to face, via WhatsApp, or

13:46

even just supporting some random

13:48

stranger on Reddit, or a Facebook mental

13:51

health group, or something. Or If

13:53

you're a patron of mine, the community

13:55

tab on my Patreon page, I must

13:57

keep reminding everybody about that. That'd be a

13:59

lovely place to share what's going

14:02

on, and the more people that do that,

14:05

the more common it becomes

14:07

then for all my patrons to go

14:09

and check and see if anybody has posted anything. And

14:11

then the more support everybody gets.

14:14

And if you're a patron, then you

14:16

get full episodes every Monday morning, too.

14:18

Not just the, you know, those

14:21

little bonus episode snippets that I stick out

14:23

there on a Friday. You get

14:25

a full proper episode every Monday.

14:27

And if you need it, um, and you're

14:29

super quick, there is actually

14:32

one space left on the

14:34

Patron supported tier

14:37

on my Patreon page, where you just

14:39

have to pay the Patreon fees, which

14:41

is like, I think it's 2

14:44

a month after VAT. And then somebody else

14:46

pays for your access, another patron

14:49

of mine. Someone just signed up on the pay

14:51

double level a few days ago,

14:53

you see. The patron funded

14:55

level is for people who are struggling,

14:58

not just with their mental health. But also

15:00

struggling financially as well, and

15:02

it is anonymous, nobody knows

15:04

who's paying extra, nobody knows

15:06

who's on the lower level, and nobody

15:08

knows, nobody knows anything really, and you

15:10

have to share all that sort of stuff, but you don't need

15:12

to do that. So, if

15:14

you value what I do, and maybe

15:17

you're feeling a bit flush, you could always join

15:19

up on one of the higher tiers and help somebody else

15:21

out as well. That'd be nice, but

15:24

only if you can afford it. You can't

15:26

save everyone. We need to be

15:28

okay with just doing little things.

15:31

Doing little things is fine. Even Superman

15:33

would end up getting a cat out of a tree from time to

15:35

time. And apparently, he could

15:37

break the speed of light and travel back in time.

15:40

Although no one likes mentioning that. Anyway,

15:42

I shall love you and leave you. Because I'm

15:44

in danger of overrunning if I'm not careful. Have

15:47

a great February. Open

15:49

up if you have to. Talk with your friends,

15:51

but more importantly, listen

15:54

with your friends as well without

15:57

judgment and with nothing

15:59

more than respect

16:01

and care and you'll be amazed

16:04

what a difference it makes. I think I'll make a

16:06

Patreon episode about that next week

16:08

actually. That seems quite important if I'm honest.

16:10

Anyway, take care folks. I

16:12

will speak to you again very soon. Bye

16:15

for now.