0:01

Recently, I had a chance to see the one woman

0:03

show Oh God, a show about abortion,

0:06

written by and starring comedian Alison

0:08

Leeby. In it, she details

0:10

the experience of getting an abortion in her mid

0:12

thirties simply because she doesn't want children,

0:15

and you know who among us. The

0:17

show is smart and a reverend and incredibly

0:20

necessary, and because it's also

0:22

a show about women's choices and sexuality

0:25

and how limited our cultural conversations

0:27

about these issues can be, it's also

0:30

very timely. The show is running

0:32

right now and it has just been extended until

0:34

June thirtieth at the Cherry Lane Theater

0:37

in New York. So if you can make some

0:39

time to see the show, please do. And

0:41

also, let's just normalize talking about abortion

0:46

from luminary. This is the Roxanne

0:48

Gay Agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast

0:50

of your dreams. I am Roxanne Gay,

0:53

your favorite at feminist. On

0:55

a Roxanne Gay Agenda, I talk about

0:57

something that's on my mind, and then I talked with

1:00

someone interesting to find out what's on their

1:02

mind. And on this week's agenda,

1:05

terrible Movies. What

1:07

a transition, I know, I

1:10

know, it's just like, let's go from abortion to bad

1:12

film. It was

1:14

seamless. Honestly, Uh,

1:17

there's this genre of film that can best be

1:19

termed as fucia America. These

1:21

are movies that carefully showcase America's

1:24

military might, making it clear that the armed

1:26

forces are the mightiest in the world. And

1:29

one of the best movies in this genre is

1:31

Battleship. Yes, like the Board Game

1:34

the year was I could not

1:36

resist with some arm twisting from a man

1:38

I was having sex with at the time seeing

1:40

this midnight movie. Everything

1:43

I'm about to tell you about Battleship is true. So

1:45

let me start by saying that they were very

1:47

liberal in their interpretation of the Board

1:50

Game and that was actually the one bright spot.

1:53

The budget for this ship show was two hundred

1:55

million dollars, which wow.

1:59

And so here's some move movies that Battleship

2:01

flagrantly steals from Top

2:03

Gun, Transformers, Pearl

2:05

Harbor, Space Cowboys, Contact,

2:07

Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Independence

2:10

Day, Armageddon, The Hunt for Red October,

2:13

Deep Impact, and many others. The

2:15

producers and writers literally just stitched

2:17

together the best and worst moments and ideas

2:19

from each of these movies, creating what can

2:22

only be termed as a Franken movie. Now

2:25

When Battleship opens, there's some type

2:28

on the screen filling us in on the bullshit premise

2:30

they came up with to actually turn a board

2:32

game into a movie. Suffice

2:34

it to say, aliens are involved. The

2:37

man that you people call Tim Riggins and Eric

2:39

from True Blood are brothers and they're in the Navy.

2:41

One is a good boy and one is a bad boy.

2:44

Now there's some backstory involving Tim

2:46

Riggins or Hopper as they insist on

2:48

calling him, but it doesn't really matter,

2:51

and so we flash forward and Hopper is

2:54

a lieutenant in the Navy and his brother

2:56

Stone Hopper is a commander.

2:58

Yep, opera, just

3:01

let that marinate. They're

3:03

gonna be these naval exercises called

3:05

rim Pack, and a bunch of navy ships are

3:07

involved in. The Japanese and the Malaysians are

3:09

there too. But but before

3:11

the war games, there's a soccer match. This

3:14

is a blatant rip off from Top Gun. But they couldn't

3:16

have it be a volleyball game because that would just be too

3:19

obvious. The US is playing

3:21

Japan and there's all kinds of Pearl

3:23

Harbor subtext, and Rihanna is on the

3:25

American team. She is the

3:27

only woman in the entire navy,

3:30

and let's just get this Rihanna business out

3:32

of the way. She's incredible love fancy products,

3:34

but her acting in this film is not the greatest.

3:36

Her wig is actually a crime.

3:39

She could not deliver a line. It

3:41

was just a mess from beginning to end. But still I

3:43

was into it because Rihanna ted out of tent no notes.

3:47

So the game begins and suddenly some

3:49

geeks at a satellite array notice five

3:51

objects hurtling toward the Earth. One

3:54

of the objects veers toward Hong Kong, which

3:56

is like where all the space objects land

3:58

in the movies. A good part of the

4:00

city is destroyed. The rest of the objects

4:03

land conveniently in the water, is just off

4:05

Hawaii, where the war games are taking place.

4:07

Of course, I mean, thank goodness they

4:09

did not land in some other part of

4:11

the largest ocean in the world. Hopper,

4:14

Rihanna and some random guy getting

4:16

the zippy little boat with a gun, and they go closer

4:18

to investigate, and it scenes

4:21

so absurd it maybe laugh until I cried.

4:23

Hopper jumps out of the boat and starts strolling

4:26

on the alien object, and then he goes to this big

4:28

tower that's like an ugly water feature. And

4:30

even though his friends are saying I wouldn't do that, he

4:32

pushes a button. Crazy

4:34

things start happening, involving c g I

4:36

wearring, sounds, and transformation. I

4:39

am certain that the same

4:41

production and design team that did Transformers

4:44

also did this movie. They borrowed

4:46

the necessary sound effects and graphics they wila

4:49

art. In short order, the aliens

4:51

blow up Eric's ship and that's that Hopper

4:54

is hopping mad. So he goes back to his ship

4:56

and guess what he is now the highest

4:58

ranking officer that the CEO and EXCEL

5:01

were killed in an alien

5:03

shelling, which, of course we

5:05

also learned that the aliens only attack

5:07

if they sense an aggressor. It makes no sense,

5:10

but we're going to go with it. But here's what drives

5:12

me crazy about alien invasion movies.

5:14

Is it really possible that every alien

5:17

species out there is smarter than humans?

5:19

Like? What is with this human self loathing

5:21

that pervades these movies? Just once, I

5:23

would love to see the planet invaded by idiot

5:26

aliens. Anyway, more

5:28

dramatic and implausible things happen. Finally,

5:31

Hoppert pulls his ship together and he grief

5:33

rages, and he looks sweaty and muscily. A

5:35

serious portion of this movie's budget went to

5:38

spritzing the characters down. Also like

5:40

the Rock in the Fast and Furious movies. Out

5:43

on the ocean, they have no radar, but

5:45

they need to see the aliens. What can they

5:47

do? The Japanese captain

5:50

Nagata says he has an idea, a

5:52

way of seeing without seeing, and

5:54

I perked up because I knew whatever nonsense they

5:56

were about to throw at me was going to be amazing, and

5:58

it was. Nagatas is that they

6:00

can use tsunami booies to track

6:02

water displacement. So they log

6:04

into this system and start seeing booies

6:07

pop up on the screen. And then Hopper says, make

6:09

a grid, and we see a grid with red

6:11

dots moving across the grid, indicating

6:13

that the aliens are moving. Friends. It

6:16

was then that I realized that they literally

6:19

made a movie about battleship, as in, not

6:21

just about the actual boat, that's a battleship.

6:24

So I lost it. At this point, I was in tears.

6:27

Captain Negata takes command and he begins

6:29

trying to hit the alien ships. He

6:32

calls out coordinates, and Rhanna, who's now

6:34

some kind of weapons specialist, aims

6:36

the weapons in that direction and they miss, and they

6:38

try again, and Negata was like F four

6:40

and boom, you sank my battleship. The

6:43

only only thing that would have made this movie

6:45

more amazing would have been if they had incorporated

6:48

that line about sinking a battleship, and

6:50

this one regard the filmmakers

6:52

restrained themselves. At

6:55

this point, the movie devolves into pure

6:57

lunacy. Hopper and his crew need a boat

6:59

because theirs has been destroyed, so they

7:01

go to this big commissioned battleship where

7:03

at the beginning of the movie a ceremony was being held

7:06

with Liam Neeson. Hopper's

7:08

comrades are freaking out because the battleship

7:10

is analog their words, and it runs

7:12

on steam and it hasn't been used in like twenty

7:15

years. I know who's

7:17

going to get the ship started. But good

7:19

news, there are these old navy

7:22

dudes who are being honored in that ceremony

7:24

at the beginning of the movie with Liam Neeson, and they

7:26

just happened to be standing on the

7:28

battleship in like various strategic places

7:30

wearing their old navy dungarees. Hopper

7:33

walks up to them and he says, I know you've given a

7:35

lot to your country, and I have no right to ask,

7:37

but will you help us? Why would

7:39

he say that? The old guys are literally

7:42

standing on the ship. The world is about to end.

7:44

Why wouldn't they go into service. It's like

7:47

a waiter at a restaurant saying to a seated

7:49

couple, I know you've eaten in your lifetime,

7:51

and you are here voluntarily, and it's a lot to ask.

7:53

What would you do me the honor of eating in my

7:55

restaurant? Red blooded American

7:58

rock and roll starts blaring the entire

8:00

soundship for Battle fact, in fact, falls

8:02

under the playlist on my iPhone called

8:05

white People Music. The battleship

8:07

being seaworthy is not something that could

8:10

ever be possible. But fine, fine,

8:12

they have like a handful of missiles, as

8:15

if there would ever be live munitions hanging

8:17

around on a decommissioned ship. They set

8:19

sail to save the day with one bomb

8:21

in the use of the sun. God bless

8:23

America the end. But enough

8:26

about battleship. Let me tell you about

8:28

today's guest. You

8:31

have seen her if you've watched Grace and Frankie

8:34

on Netflix for seven seasons,

8:36

or Burning Love or Adult Swim

8:39

or the film's Bride Wars and Asked Backwards,

8:41

both of which she co wrote. You may

8:43

have heard her on the hit podcast How Did This

8:45

Get Made, and which she and her co

8:47

hosts marvel about certain movies that

8:50

somehow make it to the big screen. Or

8:52

you may have heard her on her other podcast,

8:55

A Deep Dive, or in some of her

8:57

voice over work, which is to say, she gets around

9:00

actor, screenwriter and comedian June

9:02

Diane Raphael is all over the place,

9:04

and I, for one, I'm so thankful for that because

9:07

she's incredible. June Diane, thank

9:09

you so much for joining me on the Rock Sand Gay Agenda.

9:12

Roxanne. It's so interesting

9:14

because I never understand why people who

9:16

haven't seen the movies that

9:18

we talked about on How This Get Made listen to

9:20

the podcast until now,

9:23

until today, because I have never seen Battleship,

9:26

and I was riveted. But oh

9:28

my god, listen, I have a way longer

9:31

version of this. You have to see Battleship.

9:33

It is just so bad.

9:36

I didn't know. I didn't

9:38

know until today. I was today years

9:40

old when I learned that

9:43

it's based on the board game. It

9:45

is really at

9:47

the beginning, like you know, you know, when they do all

9:49

the production credits, it is like in

9:52

partnership with Hasbro Studios,

9:54

which fucking id

9:57

like, wow, okay, everybody's got a

9:59

little student you now, mattell as

10:01

Bro Nintendo and that sort

10:03

of like that is it is concerning that

10:06

like these properties, like we're looking to bargains,

10:08

we're looking to emojis, you know,

10:10

never forget the Emoji movie, Like we're really

10:13

looking for stories where we should not be

10:15

looking. What's so interesting about that is

10:18

that there's no shortage of really great storytelling

10:20

or storytellers who can come up with original

10:23

ideas, and yet people are like, oh,

10:25

an emoji movie, like let's do

10:28

that, and it was terrible. And also there was an emoji

10:31

musical which I saw two

10:33

years ago before COVID. It was terrible,

10:36

cute, well intended, but like the

10:38

whole time I was just like, this can't possibly

10:40

be happening. But I wasn't alone. There were like a hundred

10:42

other people in the theater. Wow, it

10:45

was wild. So yeah, I just understood

10:48

something right now listening to you, because I was like,

10:50

Oh, I guess this is I guess

10:52

this might be the experience of some people who listened

10:54

to our podcast. We've never seen them the movie.

10:57

Um, I didn't know. I can't

10:59

believe they did that scene with the coordinates

11:02

they did. They did, and

11:04

it was so funny because the whole time

11:06

I just thought, Oh, they borrowed from the Board

11:08

Game and they're like literally referring to a battleship

11:10

like a destroyer. Then when they

11:12

were like we're going to use the n O A A Booye's,

11:15

I was like, where is this going? And then

11:17

on the screen you see a goddamn

11:20

grid people the board game,

11:23

and it was I was just like wow.

11:25

So my experience of that movie is that Brooklyn Decker

11:28

is a very close friend of mine, so I

11:30

know she's in that pure okay,

11:35

So the only thing I my

11:37

only understanding of the movie is through her

11:40

and her stories of working with Rihanna,

11:42

which are pretty spectacular. I bet

11:44

I've been like three inches away

11:46

from her a few times, and she's

11:49

luminous. Is she just yeah, yeah

11:53

and fun. I'm reporting

11:55

through Brooklyn's experience, but um

11:58

just seems like a the time, I

12:01

agree, and I love that for her because

12:03

so many stars get like chewed

12:05

up and spit out and like they seem

12:07

fucking miserable, but she seasons

12:10

like I'm going to be happy you are not taking

12:12

that for me, And God bless her, God

12:14

bless her, And I really hope she gets

12:16

back into movies. She was good and um

12:20

she was an Oceans eight, which I thought was fun because

12:22

she played this like Hacker. I

12:24

think her character was named a ball, which why

12:26

not? And you know, I

12:28

just thought, oh, you've really groan since

12:31

Battleship, which was just such a

12:33

mess. But like anyone would have been terrible in Battleship,

12:35

it was just that horrifically bad. There was

12:39

was doing her any favor, No, it really

12:41

wasn't. And like she had like five

12:44

different naval duties, like

12:46

she was just sort of meant to be like the woman

12:49

and also like the big name to bring

12:52

people in and to be fair. That is why

12:55

I would never why it so frustrated

12:57

at those characters and those types of movies where

12:59

it's like this woman, uh,

13:02

somehow knows how to do everything,

13:05

like everything there is to do in the world

13:07

and and the most complicated things.

13:10

We can trust that she knows how

13:12

to do it and always rises to the occasion,

13:14

which seems so antithetical to life,

13:16

because there are a lot of times where I'm

13:18

like, the occasion is quite high and

13:20

I am simply not going to rise and

13:23

I will not be there now. I won't.

13:25

And I wish like more movies would

13:27

allow us that capacity to just like

13:30

I do think there's a lot of space between

13:32

like constant crisis, hot mess and

13:34

like constantly having all of the answers

13:36

like where is the middle ground? Where like sometimes my ship is

13:39

together and sometimes it isn't. Oh,

13:41

you can just well you can just take a look at the interior

13:43

of my car to know how I'm doing.

13:46

And I also have to say, do you think women

13:48

in particular, like I'm on such

13:51

a ride with my menstrual cycle. Like the person

13:53

you're seeing today roxand gay, and I'm so excited

13:55

to be here with you. It's it's such a crazy

13:57

honor. The person you're seeing

13:59

today is a very

14:02

different person than the one I

14:04

was three days ago, when I was

14:06

on day two, you know, so it's like those

14:08

are actually quite different. Those are different people

14:11

they are. And I do watch my husband walk

14:13

through the world I'm like, you seem like the same person every

14:15

day. Huh, what's that? Like? What's

14:18

so funny is that I've had my period now for like

14:21

thirty two years, and every

14:23

month I have the exact same set of

14:25

symptoms where I'm like super

14:28

weepy for at least a week, and my

14:30

wife's like, what's wrong? Are you okay?

14:32

And I'm like, I'm fine, it's

14:34

just the world that's coming to an end. And

14:38

then like I'm sore all over

14:41

the place, and then other horrible internal

14:43

things happen, and then I get my period and I'm like,

14:45

oh, right there. And

14:47

it's amazing how even after thirty

14:49

two years of like having all of these

14:51

mood shifts and like physical

14:54

responses, I'm still shocked as ship.

14:57

But my period, it's

14:59

my of how it's like

15:01

we have some kind of period amnesia

15:04

for like two days of the month.

15:06

What freaks me out actually is it sometimes

15:08

I'm like this version of me

15:11

where I am so sensitive to the world

15:13

where I look at my dog and weep,

15:16

you know, when I am angry

15:18

and lash out, like I actually

15:20

think I might be more myself then

15:23

in those days. Yeah,

15:26

that's the that scares me, especially

15:28

when I'm at my weepiest because I'm not.

15:30

I don't cry. I'm not. I mean I do, but I'm

15:32

not like a huge crier. And

15:35

so like on these days where I feel like the

15:37

slightest thing will push me over

15:39

the edge, and to just abject grief

15:42

is so odd, And then I wonder like, huh,

15:45

like is that my truest self or that

15:48

you know how like when you've had a drink or five

15:50

and you're like, this is me, I'm

15:53

really letting myself. I'm

15:57

free now, I'm free. One

16:00

of the things I wanted to ask you about is

16:02

I love that you have this podcast

16:04

that you co host UM about

16:07

Terrible Movies, because I love terrible movies.

16:09

They're one of my favorite favorite things. And

16:12

the way you guys break down these movies, oftentimes

16:15

it really is like, wow, how did this

16:17

get made? You know? I do say

16:19

this on the podcast sometimes, but I'm kind of

16:21

there against

16:25

my will, so I don't know,

16:28

you know, I I do worry

16:30

about the amount of time that it takes to

16:32

watch these movies and truly, what's happening

16:34

to my brain? Like I

16:37

don't know that I enjoy movies anymore

16:39

because I'm so scared of them

16:42

because of how many bad ones I've had to watch.

16:45

I tend to wonder like, is the

16:47

movie industry going to come to an end? Because

16:49

they keep making so many just truly

16:52

bad movies that seem like at

16:54

some point during the development and

16:56

making of the movie someone really thought

16:58

like this is great. My

17:00

husband I co host the podcast with we watched

17:02

a lot of movies together, and there's

17:05

nothing better than watching them

17:07

together and like laughing our little

17:09

asses off, and it

17:12

is just so stupid and fun

17:15

that I do have an appreciation for it. But

17:17

there's a there's a there's so many different categories,

17:20

right because those types of movies that you're

17:22

describing and at battleship in this category

17:24

big budgets, absurd budgets

17:26

like honestly morally reprehensible

17:29

budgets that

17:32

are there's just so much money thrown

17:34

at them and choices

17:36

are being made that are so wrong that

17:39

they're enjoyably bad to

17:41

watch. Unfortunately, with our podcast,

17:44

we've had to more than a few

17:46

times dip our toes into like the painfully

17:49

bad. Are you at all able to enjoy

17:51

any movies or do you always sort of go into

17:53

them now when thinking like, what

17:55

bad can I find in this movie? Well,

17:58

no, I do. I really do love movies.

18:00

I think it's just that I'm um.

18:03

I think anytime you take a hobby

18:05

that you enjoy, that

18:08

you do for fun, which for me and Paul

18:10

and Jason was always like watching Old

18:12

Dogs in the movie theater and then going out to dinner

18:15

together and talking about it, and you

18:17

kind of you monetize it and it becomes

18:19

a job. You

18:22

know that some of the

18:25

joy gets taken away from

18:27

it. So I do I mean going

18:29

to see movies. I've only seen one in

18:31

the theater since COVID, but

18:33

it's my favorite thing in the world. I

18:35

love going to the theater. And I

18:40

was in I was in Cheaper by the

18:42

New Cheaper by the Dozen with Gabrielle Union and

18:45

Zach have a small role in it. Um,

18:48

it's really fun and I'm

18:51

sorry, that's my was that your phone? Yeah,

18:53

it's just my friend door. Who's

18:56

there?

18:59

You can leave it

19:03

next door? Nobody

19:09

someone from doing a guest

19:11

inspection. There's a gas leak somewhere.

19:15

Um, in an hour, someone

19:17

will be available. Thanks.

19:21

That seems sketchy. So Cheaper by

19:23

the Dozen, which I actually can't wait to see because I've seen

19:25

the two previous versions. Yeah,

19:27

I really enjoyed it, but I saw I brought my kids

19:30

and we all went to the premiere of it. There's

19:32

still such just something about having a communal

19:35

experience in the theater that I really

19:37

do believe it is going to stand the test of

19:39

time. There's just nothing like it, especially

19:41

with comedies, like the way that they play in

19:44

a big theater. I agree. You know a

19:46

lot of times people wring their hands.

19:48

I see this in publishing with books are going to

19:50

die because of the books, which paper books

19:52

continue to outsell the books, and

19:55

people worry that the theater experience

19:57

is going to be replaced. And I don't

19:59

think it is, because as much as I enjoy,

20:01

you know, paying fifty dollars for a movie at home the

20:04

theater with the big screen and

20:06

the lights out and just laughing

20:09

with everyone or like having emotions

20:11

with hundred other people,

20:14

that collective experience is so

20:17

irreplaceable. Totally agree. And

20:19

I think there's something to hearing people laugh.

20:23

It is a sacred experience. It's one

20:25

of those rituals, like it feels

20:27

like we're crowding around the fire. There's something that's

20:29

like touch touches something in

20:32

me when I go to the theater. But also when

20:34

you hear other people laugh, I

20:36

think lots of people who are naturally introverted,

20:39

and I actually include myself

20:41

in this. When you're hearing

20:43

other people laugh and you don't have to laugh at

20:45

directly at them next to

20:47

you, or be a part of a social interaction

20:50

where you're given permission

20:52

to have an emotion and like let

20:54

it out, like let it out of your body. That

20:57

is so cool and important

21:00

and can really only happen in that

21:02

setting. I love walking away

21:04

from that experience knowing

21:08

like, oh, I've had this experience

21:10

that I'll never have anywhere else. And I also feel

21:12

the same way with live theater and live

21:14

music, like this collective

21:17

thing. When I saw Beyonce in concert

21:20

and you like look at her strutting on

21:22

stage and she's just incredible,

21:25

Like you absolutely know in that

21:27

moment, wow, like

21:30

this is the only performance that looks exactly

21:32

like this that I am ever going to see?

21:36

Is he back? I keeps

21:38

ringing about again, I

21:41

don't like that. Can

21:48

Ian get gone?

21:52

So I will say that the experience

21:54

that I'm am I regretful

21:57

of it. I don't know, but I had

22:00

both of my parents were passed away, but I think it was right

22:03

after I lost my dad. Yes,

22:05

that my husband had brought me to see

22:08

um Dolly partner at the Hollywood Bowl.

22:11

Dolly so much. I was so

22:14

excited to see her. And

22:16

we got there and I sat down and

22:20

she came out, and just hearing

22:22

her voice talking to us, I

22:25

was like, Oh, it's too much.

22:28

This is I'm actually I'm not

22:31

fit for public consumption right now in

22:33

this stage of my grief, and

22:35

the sound of her is unlocking

22:38

something that I don't think I can

22:40

control. Then

22:43

her first song was Code of Many Colors, and

22:46

I started crying and I could

22:48

not stop. And I said, Paul, now I've

22:50

been looking forward to this for weeks. He said,

22:52

we have to go. We gotta

22:54

get out of here. And he was like, what do you mean

22:57

this is I've never seen Dolly live.

22:59

He's a huge Dolly fan, He's seen her in concert

23:02

at zillion times. He's like, I really want

23:04

to experience this experiences. I said, I'm

23:06

so sorry, I have got to go. And

23:09

we walked out and

23:11

I sat and like I bought a

23:13

T shirt because I was like I gotta get

23:15

I gotta get something here. I bought a T shirt

23:18

and I was like, I'm willing to listen to her from

23:20

outside by

23:23

the concessions for one

23:25

more song, but I can't hear her

23:27

voice. And it was because

23:29

it was too it

23:32

was too much, and the communal experience

23:34

was actually too much on like this space can't hold

23:36

what I'm going through, and I want,

23:39

I do want other people to enjoy this, and they're going to have

23:41

to worry about a woman in

23:44

Rose seventy who's crying

23:46

uncontrolled. Absolutely,

23:49

I get it, you know, whenever I have those moments

23:52

when I'm so completely

23:54

overcome a I'm

23:56

marvel at the just power

23:59

of live performance, but

24:01

also like the cold.

24:07

Hello, oh, it's

24:10

very important. We have a gas person here,

24:13

We have a gast me if you don't

24:17

has to come, Oh

24:20

my god, I am so sorry. I don't know

24:22

what this guy's deal is. There's

24:25

no gas, but I'm just gonna go

24:27

see what he wants because he's like, the fire department's going

24:29

to break down your door, which, what the fuck?

24:32

Take your time. I'm here, I'll

24:35

be right back. No, take your time. I'm

24:37

just saying that here, what

24:40

a Cliffhanger. She never

24:42

comes back. This is literally the last episode

24:44

of the podcast. No updates.

24:59

O

25:05

uh, they called the fire department

25:08

to come and get into the house. So

25:13

anyway, I let con ed in. Of course

25:15

the leak is not from our house, which I knew,

25:21

and I never raised my voice. But these people next

25:23

door they're racist and

25:25

they're rude, and they never talked to Debbie

25:27

the way they talked to me, and so I was

25:29

just like, you assholes,

25:31

I've got you now. Anyway, it's

25:34

taken care of. Yeah,

25:39

we were talking about emotional moments during live

25:41

performance. So, you

25:43

know, June, as a performer, and especially

25:46

someone who can be so comedic

25:48

and sly and sharp,

25:52

you evoke those kinds of emotions and people.

25:54

So how do you try to

25:57

reach audiences when you are on stage,

25:59

when you are on TV or

26:01

in a movie like I would love to know

26:03

more about your process? Oh

26:06

lord, um

26:09

my process? I you

26:13

know, the only thing I know about my process

26:16

is I'm like, oh, if I leave

26:18

and don't feel like I've humiliated

26:21

myself a little bit or embarrassed

26:23

or tried or did the wrong thing, like

26:25

I'm trying to be wrong more often

26:27

now I guess and okay

26:30

with that, Um yeah. And

26:32

honestly, it's because I've watched Lily Tomlin work

26:34

for seven years and I see the

26:37

lack of ego and

26:40

the freedom and I'm like, oh

26:42

man, you know, but

26:44

a part of that for me too is film

26:47

sets, TV sets, they're really male

26:49

dominated, and so I think for actresses

26:52

it's an interesting thing to show up and try

26:54

to be feel free because you've

26:57

got a lot of dudes staring at you holding

26:59

equipment. You know. It's

27:01

not a space that or

27:04

it takes a lot for me to to walk into

27:06

that space and to kind of calibrate

27:08

myself of

27:10

my work on sets. And it's just working on a show

27:12

the other day where I was like, wow, fun

27:15

of the work is creating the space for myself,

27:17

creating the creative parameters.

27:21

And then there's like ten percent of

27:23

acting or like performance,

27:26

you know, and I don't love those numbers,

27:28

but unfortunately for me, like that's what it

27:31

it is. I

27:34

don't know when I watched Lily, who's so outside

27:36

in you know, she's so kind of physical

27:38

and in her body so

27:40

beautifully, that's

27:43

where I want to get to eventually.

27:45

But um yeah,

27:47

that's that's my my process or

27:50

the only thing I really find myself demanding

27:52

of myself is that

27:54

I just take a risk and get

27:56

really comfortable with not doing

27:59

things right. You know. I hear

28:01

that from a lot of women, and I

28:03

see it in myself as well, this idea

28:06

that I just want to be good. I want everyone

28:08

to like me. I want them to think I'm easy to work

28:10

with, and so I try not to. Like when

28:12

I was at an event the other day and the women said, do you have a

28:14

writer? Which I should, and I was like, no, I

28:16

don't, just like you

28:19

should get one, And

28:21

I just thought, the reason I don't, I just like

28:24

do I just need a bottle of water? Is because

28:26

I don't want to seem high maintenance or like expecting

28:28

too much from myself or something like that.

28:30

And then I realized, like why, why,

28:33

like, really do you think anyone is ever going

28:35

to be remembered for being like super low maintenance

28:38

and not caring about themselves enough? Like

28:40

I don't know if that's the way to be remembered.

28:43

And so how do you find how do you

28:45

like overcome your reticence to make space

28:48

for yourself, especially in these really male

28:50

dominated environments, where they do want

28:52

women to like shut up and look. Well,

28:54

I think about how I'll feel on the ride home and

28:58

if I'll feel disappointed that I

29:00

have I had an idea, but I

29:02

didn't want to ask for another take because I knew

29:04

the crew was tired, and I knew, you know,

29:06

they want to move on or whatever the thing is, and you

29:09

know, and and but to be quite honest now or ex

29:11

and I'm like, funk, they're not shooting on film anymore.

29:13

It's digital lights are up there,

29:16

like, but I can

29:18

really like start to get worried about like

29:20

production and how they're all going to feel

29:22

about this. And I'm now

29:25

trying to really think through, well, how will you feel

29:27

when you go home and know that

29:29

you had something else that

29:31

you didn't put out there? And

29:34

and the other thing too is you know, I

29:36

do feel the gift of motherhood

29:38

for me has really been in like

29:41

getting back to just play. Seeing

29:44

the kids play so instinctually and

29:46

freely. I love that, And I

29:48

just want to get

29:51

in trouble. I'm like, oh, I want I want

29:53

someone to tell me like take it down. Don't

29:56

like that's great news

29:58

if I did it wrong? Um, because

30:01

for me and I know, Yeah, you're right. For so many

30:03

women says not amazing that we're I

30:06

find myself so really

30:08

having to unlearn so much of like being

30:10

a good, good girl. And it's interesting,

30:13

like it doesn't matter really how old you

30:15

are, like you can still find yourself

30:18

falling into the trap of being a good girl,

30:20

of forgetting about play. The

30:22

men do it with such ease,

30:25

and everyone around them like allows

30:28

it and enables it, and oftentimes

30:30

it merits like really good things and

30:33

you're like, wow, I love that, and then other times you're like,

30:36

I don't know, maybe not all play

30:38

is good, but it's

30:40

it's interesting how much we have to unlearn

30:43

just to get to a place where we can do

30:45

our jobs well in the ways that

30:47

we think our truest to what we

30:49

want to do, and there's so many barriers

30:52

to that. You've

30:54

been in a lot of films and a

30:56

lot of TV shows. What

30:59

would be an ideal role for you that you have

31:01

not yet done, that you would love someone to write for

31:03

you, or that you would love to write for yourself.

31:06

I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about what

31:08

I want to do next, and

31:11

I do love

31:13

physical comedy. I'm like the Lily

31:15

Tomlins of the world, the seal ball, like

31:18

the big kind of broad physical stuff.

31:20

I just I know that

31:22

that's a space where I'm like, I know I have that in

31:24

me, and there were only a couple of times where I've had

31:26

like the real estate or to actually

31:29

do that. I really

31:33

love exploring that

31:35

type of big, big

31:37

physical comedy. Sometimes

31:39

I think we were we were only reserve that

31:42

for the men to be real like

31:44

idiots and goofballs.

31:47

UM. But I have that part of myself that I know I

31:49

really haven't gotten a chance to share

31:52

on the level that I want to. So

31:54

that's interesting to me, and that there's something about

31:57

Actually I was thinking about when I saw I saw your

32:00

live show Roxham, when you were in l

32:02

A and you had on um

32:05

comedian and writer Ashley

32:08

and Black thank You, and

32:10

she talked about how tired

32:12

she was of that trope of like this woman who

32:15

who who wants to get out life

32:17

and knows what she wants and and she's

32:19

like, no, I actually want to play like kind of a sad

32:21

black woman. And I like,

32:24

I was like, I totally here,

32:26

Like there's such a there's still even

32:29

with all the work that's been done and

32:31

representation all that jazz, there's

32:33

still a pretty narrow scope of humanity

32:36

were allowed to express. And

32:40

you know, I think about that all the time

32:42

because I am always asked

32:44

like, surely things have gotten better, right,

32:46

Like, you know you're doing this, this person is

32:48

doing that, you know, Like, and I'm like, as long

32:50

as you can a name and count

32:53

the people doing things, but

32:55

you have to look at what they're actually doing.

32:58

And a lot of times it's like one

33:00

kind of role for

33:02

women in particular, and I would say for women of color

33:05

even more. You know, there's not

33:07

a lot of space to really just

33:09

show the range of what we have to offer.

33:12

That's why I think I loved I May Destroy You so

33:15

much on HBO with MICHAELA.

33:17

Cole because I

33:19

was like, wow, I've never seen that black woman

33:21

on TV before. That's incredible.

33:24

And I don't want to be able to point out like the

33:26

one or the two or the three, you

33:28

know, I want her to be so many for

33:31

women from all sort of walks

33:33

of life that we don't we're not counting anymore,

33:36

and like it's not even a conversation, but

33:39

it feels far away. Well, and

33:41

then it's like, you know, I always think about my own

33:43

experience and and my own

33:45

mother, who was really the reason why I got into

33:48

comedy because I found her to be so funny. But

33:50

she was a good, a great mom,

33:53

and bad at many things,

33:56

bad honestly bad at many elements of

33:58

caretaking as well, truly,

34:02

and I'm like, oh, it's so much more nuanced,

34:05

and it's so not you know. And

34:07

and she worked outside the home, she was a New York City

34:09

public school teacher, and you

34:11

know, was so good and

34:14

also failed

34:16

left and right at things, and

34:18

you still loved her just as much like

34:20

your Your esteem for your mother is clear.

34:23

Oh, I mean, listen, Rox. And I still feel

34:25

like I wish I could go to a summer camp.

34:27

I always say that's for like a week where

34:29

I could learn some of the basic

34:31

things that I find other people know that

34:34

I looked back onto my childhood and I'm

34:36

like, why didn't, Like I didn't go to a dentist for

34:38

ten years? You know, there were gaps,

34:40

There were gaps, And yet I can

34:42

also absolutely say that I

34:45

had wonderful parents who took incredible

34:48

care of me that I'm forever

34:50

grateful for. So but

34:52

there are gaps, you know, a

34:56

guy. Remember being an adult and seeing someone

34:58

put a napkin on their lap and

35:00

thinking before to eate dinner and thinking

35:02

like, oh, June, like

35:05

that's what people do. Nobody told

35:07

you that just for the tie

35:10

us of my home, Like there was just things that weren't

35:13

related. And yet I know how to love

35:15

and be loved, so I feel like I got everything

35:20

absolutely, you know, I think sometimes

35:22

those are the most important lessons

35:25

when I sometimes think how my

35:27

forty seven and I

35:30

surely don't know how to do x

35:32

y or z um. And then I

35:34

think about what I do know how to do, and

35:37

I will say for me, namely, like my

35:39

mom and my dad, for

35:41

all their faults, love their children passionately.

35:44

They're kind of obsessed with us and

35:48

that sort of you know, some people

35:50

would find it suffocating, but it's actually

35:52

not for us because they

35:55

let us. You know, we live our own lives. We're all adults at

35:57

this point. But you

35:59

know, there's no doubt that were loved,

36:01

and you know, Haitian parents never ever ever

36:03

stopped parenting, so it's

36:05

just like they're still around to like give

36:07

thoughts and opinions like Roxanne, why isn't

36:10

the kitchen clean. Well, why isn't

36:12

it Indeed, so,

36:19

you know, it's interesting to see like

36:21

those gaps and then to be able to you know, I think

36:23

the older I get, the more I'm able to reconcile

36:26

those gaps and just be like, yeah,

36:28

you know, I can fill them in now. It's

36:30

I think there's something he said for there's so much

36:32

emphasis on parenting small children at

36:34

the bulk of our work is a clarit eighteen

36:37

and I don't think there is a lot of like cultural

36:39

conversation around what it is to be parent

36:41

of an adult child. Yeah,

36:44

it's which is a very different thing. You know.

36:47

When I would say when I turned thirty

36:50

five, I mean it's coincidentally that's when I started

36:52

to get my ship together, but that's when

36:55

my parents and I really developed an interesting

36:57

relationship where I

36:59

enjoyed them again after always

37:01

feeling like, stop telling me what to do, stop

37:04

criticizing me all the time. And then it became

37:06

not that we were peers necessarily, but

37:09

there were equitable conversations

37:11

that we were able to have and like

37:13

adult conversations where I was like,

37:15

I can't believe I'm talking about this with my parents.

37:18

Wow, awesome, And

37:22

you know, I do. I wish there was more

37:25

conversation about like what happens

37:28

um

37:30

with adults and

37:33

their parents, because it's not that

37:35

it's easy zero through eighteen, but

37:38

like there's like, you know, you generally

37:40

like keep them alive, make

37:43

them into good people, feed

37:45

them. Yes, I mean, I know it's

37:48

much more complicated than that, and no, but that's

37:50

a big part of it. And but yeah, there's like no books

37:52

written for adults. No, there

37:54

aren't. And there's like a million

37:57

books written for the

37:59

little ones. And you know, I look at my friends

38:01

with kids and I often think, yeah,

38:04

you're also going to need another user manual

38:06

when they're you know, in their twenties

38:09

and thirties and beyond. So

38:12

just to wrap things up, even though I could talk to

38:14

you forever, like what's next

38:16

for you professionally or personally, you

38:19

know, professionally, I don't

38:21

know. And I'm trying to like be okay

38:23

to live in that space. I'm trying to really

38:26

exercise some discernments

38:29

and control. You know,

38:31

this is an industry that's there's such a kind

38:33

of poverty stricken mentality and

38:35

and it's so easy for me to fall into

38:37

that feeling of like there's not enough.

38:40

Take take whatever they give you and be happy

38:42

and all of that stuff. And so

38:45

finances and our family are always sort of like a disease

38:48

of vagueness where we don't

38:50

quite know, you know, what we can afford and

38:52

what we can't afford. So I do

38:54

I say that, but I really definitely have to drill down

38:56

on like how long I can have this feeling for,

38:59

you know, how long? How

39:02

long I can be like is it a week, is

39:04

it a month, is it a year? Like I simply

39:07

don't know. So professionally,

39:09

I'm I'm trying to live in that creative

39:11

space, but also and sort of more

39:14

of an admin way of in terms of my

39:16

life, I do want to try to drill down

39:18

on more of those details and be a little bit

39:20

more of an adult

39:22

in kind of like knowing those

39:25

things which I can easily like

39:27

dissociate from. Um. So

39:30

that's some of my goals. And

39:33

then personally, I'm just really

39:35

committed to throwing

39:38

parties, bringing people together,

39:42

having dance parties. I

39:44

had I'm gonna have a basketball tournament

39:46

at my house on the fourth of July for

39:48

my neighbors. Nice are you going

39:51

to play? Because I know you used to play basketball. Of

39:53

course I'm gonna play Hell, yes, that's

39:55

right. W w n B A okay.

39:57

So, and I want to say something about the w n

39:59

B A be kids. My son is super into sports, and

40:02

my husband's taking to Clippers games and

40:04

and you know, you go to a w NBA

40:07

game and we've seen the Sparks play a few times.

40:10

First of all, I can get great seats, which is the good news

40:12

and bad news, but you can um.

40:15

But they also play the game of basketball

40:18

like they're moving the ball around, They're playing the game

40:20

and it's so not ego driven driven. It's just

40:22

so fascinating to watch because I'm like, oh,

40:24

this is how I actually want him to learn basketball

40:27

by watching these women. And also he

40:30

he said it before I did. He's like, Oh, at the

40:32

w NBA games, they have kids come out

40:34

and dance, but at the NBA

40:36

games they have the women in the in the short

40:38

skirts and stuff. And I

40:41

was like, yeah, yeah,

40:45

hard to he said, why. I'm like

40:47

that said

40:50

so on a personal note, I'm trying. I'm

40:52

like getting back into sports, which I love,

40:55

and playing sports for just

40:57

fun and staying

41:00

like competitive tournaments at

41:03

my home for

41:05

adults. That sounds amazing. I

41:07

gotta say, I mean, of all the things you could have possibly

41:10

said, posting a basketball tournament,

41:12

was not there, and I like being

41:14

surprised. Roxanne. I've like painted

41:16

a core, painted a half court on our

41:18

driveway. June

41:21

Diane Richfield, thank you so much

41:23

for coming on the Roxanne Gay Agenda. I

41:26

couldn't be happier to be here, Roxanne, thank

41:28

you so much. You

41:31

can keep up with me and the podcast on

41:33

social media on Twitter at our game

41:35

and Instagram at Roxanne Gay seven four.

41:38

Our email is Roxanne Gay Agenda at

41:41

gmail dot com, and we would love to hear

41:43

from you from Luminary. The Roxanne

41:45

Gay Agenda is produced by Curtis Fox.

41:48

Our researcher as Ysenya Moreno. Production

41:50

support is provided by Caitlin Adams

41:52

and Meg Pillow. I am Roxanne

41:54

Gay, your favorite bad feminists. Thank you so

41:57

much for listening.