0:07

Welcome to Running For Real, a global

0:10

community with a shared love and curiosity

0:12

for Running.

0:15

Together,

0:17

we reconnect with the reasons why

0:19

we love to run and discover ways it helps

0:21

us become better people. whether it's

0:23

the quiet moments of a morning run while

0:26

the rest of the world still sleeps or

0:28

the friend who misstrangers next to you at the start

0:30

line of a race. We are here

0:32

to connect with others who see running as

0:34

the common thread that leads our lives together.

0:37

Come join me, Tina as I

0:39

talk with people from all walks of life,

0:41

united by love of

0:42

running.

0:45

Hello,

0:47

my friends. Welcome to episode three

0:50

hundred twenty six of the Running Freel

0:52

podcast. I'm excited that you are here

0:55

and excited to welcome back

0:57

a guest who has not been on the show

0:59

in a hundred and twenty six episodes.

1:02

It's easy to remember he was number two hundred,

1:04

but

1:05

also who is someone who

1:07

from that episode came so

1:10

much a friendship and you will get

1:12

to hear that friendship on full display

1:14

today. A podcast you

1:16

may or may not have a heard of. I hope you've heard

1:18

of quarter running realized that

1:20

we launched and did together eleven episodes

1:23

really powerful. You get us here and dissect

1:25

what we did there. it would have changed,

1:27

what we would have done differently, and

1:30

just get to reflect on that. He is also

1:32

the founding coach for the Nike plus

1:34

Run Club. He is the captain

1:37

and founder of Black Rose's New York

1:39

Tina. And he's just

1:42

everywhere as someone in the space

1:44

who is always pushing

1:46

our community along. He's also a very

1:48

popular iFit trainer. And,

1:50

yeah, he is someone who I have grown

1:52

to know very well and and him to me,

1:55

and I'm excited for you to get

1:57

to know our conversation. This is

1:59

very Knox

1:59

Tina, this conversation. and

2:02

I hope you enjoy. So let's

2:04

get to it.

2:08

My friends quickly interrupting this

2:10

episode to just talk to you a little bit

2:12

about Patreon. I know I've been talking about

2:14

Patreon a lot lately and I gotta be honest.

2:17

It really has humbled me in

2:20

that I have been

2:22

posting, I've been sharing. I

2:24

haven't really seen many people

2:26

responding to a lot of of things, see a lot

2:28

of bonus materials that I am adding. And

2:31

while I know those are valued, and many

2:33

of you have said, you really appreciate

2:35

those extra things. I also wonder

2:37

if maybe I was putting a bit too much pressure

2:39

on you with these extra travel

2:41

together runs, with these zoom

2:44

charts, with these extra blog posts,

2:46

your suggestions for podcast guests,

2:48

your questions you wanted to ask for weekly

2:50

strides, a shout out on it together

2:52

run. There are a lot of things that I

2:54

am

2:54

offering here. that it

2:57

suddenly dawned on me might just be

2:59

overwhelming.

2:59

Actually, it didn't dawn on me. I'll

3:01

be honest.

3:01

I had emails coming in

3:03

from multiple people who

3:05

are in Patreon who say I

3:07

love supporting you. I love that

3:09

I give you the opportunity to continue what

3:11

you do, but I just don't have

3:13

the time or bandwidth to

3:15

enjoy all these bonus

3:17

things. So I just wanna remind

3:19

you that there is a, what we call, a keeping

3:21

it real level, which is three dollars per month.

3:24

You don't get any bonuses that are gonna overwhelm

3:26

you. Feel like you have to find time. You don't have time

3:28

for it to make it worthwhile. You also

3:30

don't have to do anything.

3:32

It is just a way of supporting me

3:35

and the running for old team for I mean,

3:37

what's that like half a coffee these days?

3:39

Like, a coffee is like five it's

3:41

in both spaces. But if you wanna just

3:44

go to patreon dot com forward slash

3:46

running for real. That's the number four,

3:47

running for real dot com. That's PATRE0N

3:50

dot com forward slash running for

3:52

real, also in the show notes. You can

3:54

just support running for real at the keeping it

3:56

real level or the together team

3:58

level. which just gives you those

4:01

travel together runs. Now that is a

4:03

way, a massive way that you can

4:05

help me and support me. And if you pay

4:07

annually, there's a big discount there.

4:09

I just wanna remind you that it doesn't Maybe

4:12

you've been pushing all these bonuses and talking about

4:14

all these extra things you get. But if it

4:16

works better for you just to chip

4:18

in a little bit to help me support all

4:20

the work that I'm doing. That means a

4:23

lot too. You don't have to go up to the top level.

4:25

So just wanted to be real with

4:27

you for a minute here and and

4:29

say thank you. To those of you who are supporters

4:32

on Patreon, it means so

4:34

much. Thank you friends and

4:36

let's get back to the episode.

4:41

I don't

4:42

even know how to introduce this. Hi

4:44

friend, welcome back so much

4:46

has changed. And

4:48

yet, for seconds

4:51

to send your animation.

4:52

Yeah. Yeah. We are say, for the instance,

4:55

not because I just have a very, like,

4:57

us

4:58

half an hour. So I

5:00

won't go into that because there's too many other

5:02

things to say, but it was the perfect example

5:04

of our situation here.

5:08

Knox. I had you on episode

5:11

two hundred, and it's now and

5:13

this is three twenty seven, I think.

5:16

But anyway, so much

5:18

has changed since I had you on.

5:20

What? I can't even we must have been in

5:22

the pandemic, but

5:23

beyond

5:25

that. I mean, yep, the

5:28

everything has changed and nothing has changed at the

5:30

same time in many many aspects.

5:32

But For those who

5:35

have somehow

5:37

the not not

5:38

heard any updates, how are

5:40

you?

5:40

Yeah.

5:42

Nothing has changed. I'm

5:45

well. Nothing

5:47

has changed. I'm I'm still me.

5:51

Yeah.

5:53

Everything is everything is amazing.

5:56

We're AAA few ticks down

5:58

the road.

6:01

ah

6:03

Yeah.

6:03

I mean,

6:06

that that first conversation

6:08

actually was pretty

6:10

incredible because it also did it did

6:12

alter, like, the course of --

6:14

Yeah. -- that we were doing. Obviously, we

6:17

had intensely

6:22

passionate and ill advised podcast

6:24

together. That that that well,

6:26

it is awesome. It's It's

6:29

also in suspended animation. And

6:31

shout out to, like, our our patient producer,

6:34

John, who -- Okay. -- kind of, like,

6:36

we're in and also shout out to all the guests

6:38

actually, like, when you step back and think about

6:42

not what we did, but, like, who we connected

6:44

with -- Mhmm. -- it's really

6:47

dizzying It it

6:49

was definitely it was

6:52

definitely like one point o. It was definitely

6:54

starter kit. you know, we definitely,

6:57

like, did too much. Really?

6:59

No. Yeah. Yeah. I was ridiculous. I

7:01

was about to give a a coaching I'm

7:03

about to give a coaching speech. to

7:06

to good vibes. Good

7:08

vibes, track club shoutout to good vibes, track club.

7:11

And I'm about to tell him

7:14

about someone I knew growing up. The

7:16

girl

7:16

I used to date about her. And

7:18

she said she always

7:20

used to say too much is never enough. And

7:24

it's great for someone who's like a

7:27

maximalist. That's just myself. But

7:29

if you look at it a little deeper,

7:32

I and I'm gonna talk

7:34

on a train left on a coaching level. Like,

7:36

folks are are this group

7:38

is awesome. And I gotta, like,

7:40

throw a cold water, a bucket of cold water at the end

7:42

of the season be, like, you're doing

7:45

too much. Like, too

7:47

many Tuesday night track workouts. too

7:50

many photos, too

7:52

much carbohydrate

7:55

drink mix,

7:56

too much super shoes,

7:59

and

7:59

you're putting it all together and it still

8:02

doesn't turn out to be like

8:04

the marathon time of your Too

8:06

much is never gonna

8:08

be enough. And that was us. We had,

8:10

like, for our podcast, every

8:14

episode we worked so hard and, like,

8:16

every guest was amazing. Like, every guest

8:18

was, like, an insane personality.

8:20

And Tina, if, like, if you step back and look

8:22

at, like, the best

8:24

podcasts. The

8:28

the best podcast would have taken

8:31

one of those guests and

8:33

spent a year to we

8:36

were, like, talking to, like, people we

8:38

should have, like, spent a year talking to.

8:40

Yeah. Yeah. We we, like, talked to him

8:42

for twenty minutes. That's not a a

8:44

fault on them. Or I was we I'm

8:46

just saying we went in passionately.

8:48

I'm in hot. Yeah. Yeah. We came. I

8:51

mean, we're hot. We're hot. We're hot.

8:53

We stayed hot. But it

8:56

was definitely too much,

8:58

and it wasn't Yes.

9:01

Yes. So then

9:04

let's go let's go into that. Okay?

9:06

So we've

9:06

alluded to this I would

9:09

struggle to imagine many. The

9:11

listeners don't know what running releases.

9:13

We did. Knox cited these

9:15

ten episodes or eleven episodes,

9:17

I think. of, as

9:19

we've said, very intense Tina style.

9:21

There was a storytelling piece. There was

9:23

a kind of conversation

9:26

between us, there was some

9:28

kind of interview with an

9:30

quote unquote expert in the field, some kind

9:32

of creative piece. we were really proud of

9:34

it. I've also never put so much work

9:36

into something

9:38

that was an hour long.

9:39

I mean, I guess there's there's people

9:41

you probably do more of this than me put

9:44

in volumes

9:45

of time like that for something small. And I

9:47

guess you could use running as that example.

9:49

Right? So I have done that many times.

9:51

Exactly. But

9:53

it felt very

9:54

it felt very

9:57

intense and intentional.

9:59

ah

9:59

And we did topics that were

10:02

challenges in the running space, really

10:04

proud of the work that we created

10:07

and the push that we

10:09

had, like, I

10:09

I'm still hearing from people

10:11

who have taken a note from

10:13

things we talk about and change things

10:15

and races or in

10:17

the way that they view things, the way that they

10:19

cheer for people, whatever it may be. So

10:21

I know we have some some impact there.

10:24

No. Come on, Tina. what

10:27

what we did on the podcast change, how they

10:29

cheer people. Dude, it's

10:31

crazier than that. The things we've talked about on

10:33

that podcast now are

10:35

like and this is not touting our, you

10:37

know, tag you know, like, tooting

10:38

or touting, but, like,

10:40

the things

10:41

we talked about are now part

10:43

of Google newsfeed. The things we talked

10:45

about and that we, like, were

10:47

dragging our eyes out with our to to produce

10:49

in a great way. Like, we we work

10:51

to produce are

10:53

now, like, everybody sitting

10:56

around the water cooler at the

10:58

Traxmouth shakeout run before the New York

11:00

City Marathon, type of

11:02

like, oh, yeah. Blah. Blah.

11:04

Have you heard about black women

11:06

breaking three hours in the marathon? Oh,

11:08

have you heard about transcender athletes having

11:10

their own category and big races.

11:12

You're like, dude, that

11:14

was like, we're sitting around, like,

11:16

three cities.

11:19

multiple time zones, obviously.

11:21

And, like, how about

11:24

we do an episode on

11:27

nine non binary athletes

11:30

at trans rockies.

11:34

What

11:35

was even funnier is that the epic that

11:37

episode

11:37

in particular that we did. We were

11:39

saying how the trail world was leading

11:41

the way. And since

11:44

then,

11:44

The trail world has remained in the

11:47

exact same spot it was in back

11:49

then other than a few races. And

11:51

road running has leapfrogged

11:53

over it. and it's still sitting there. And

11:55

so that

11:57

one in particular has

11:59

kind of I mean, at least

12:02

from the friends I've spoken to,

12:03

ah trail

12:05

running has not budged from

12:07

that

12:07

position at all. So

12:09

it's funny some of them have aged

12:11

well. others have not.

12:14

Like, the

12:15

in a distance Just like running. Just

12:17

like runners. Just like just like some

12:19

runners, we know. Listen. Well,

12:23

I think I could fall into that category

12:25

quite easily.

12:27

Well, while we're

12:29

talking about Trex Smith Shacob. Oh, you know,

12:31

let's continue doing this. With

12:34

Ring realized, I would love to hear now

12:36

you've had some time to to process this, and

12:38

you and I have know, talked about this in

12:40

various

12:41

conversations we've had over the

12:44

last

12:45

few years.

12:47

what

12:47

what what

12:49

did you glean from

12:51

running realize? Or what

12:53

what came out of it for you?

12:55

other than, as you mentioned already, the

12:57

conversations and just

12:58

being able to be in the room with those people

13:01

or maybe not in the room in our case.

13:04

It it was an incredible

13:06

opportunity that you and John

13:09

and and our guests

13:11

and our

13:12

supporters, our listeners. It

13:16

was an incredible

13:16

opportunity to tell some stories and

13:18

tell choice in a particular way -- Mhmm.

13:21

-- in a clerical

13:24

format way, but also

13:27

and and and that unvarnished way

13:30

in a first person in

13:32

a visceral way. I I think all that

13:34

stuff is really

13:37

what I love and

13:39

crave and what I like look for

13:41

across

13:41

the board,

13:43

whether we're talking about poetry or

13:46

running or, you

13:48

know, getting to know someone for the first

13:50

time, you

13:52

look for that. So I I think that we

13:55

created something really wild

13:57

and but also really

13:59

like personal

13:59

and intimate. And

14:02

the And I think in a boring

14:04

way, like, as a boring

14:06

person, you know. Like, I I

14:08

guess I'm just thinking about how

14:11

I

14:13

I haven't updated. Like, when when we

14:15

were working on it, we were interviewing us, like,

14:17

I'm squarely in the moment, and then

14:19

when that moment moves on, that moment

14:21

remains where it was.

14:23

And

14:23

I

14:25

and I think that's because, like, I'm a reader. I

14:27

think that's because I've always been in love with books and

14:30

when you go back when you pull the book off the

14:32

shelf, when you go back and, like, pull

14:34

the record from the stacks and you put the

14:36

record on the turntable,

14:38

what you're playing is like what the artist

14:40

did in

14:41

the studio at that moment in time.

14:43

That's what's

14:44

kind of like mind boggling about

14:47

recorded music or like the nurture. It's like,

14:49

this is what was set down. It's a record it's

14:51

literally a record of a moment in time.

14:54

Yeah. And I don't as a person,

14:56

I don't I

14:58

don't update from that. Sometimes it's frustrating

15:00

for people who are

15:02

that I work closely with, like, creative

15:05

partners and whatnot because they're like, hey, what do you think about this

15:07

and that? And I was like, well, I haven't

15:09

updated since, like, the last call. That doesn't mean

15:11

I'm lazy, but I just think

15:13

that, like, when I'm in the moment,

15:15

that's what it is. Like, Alan

15:17

Ginsberg says, like, said, like,

15:19

first thought, best thought. I don't even hear that as

15:21

a creative practice necessarily, but

15:23

I

15:23

understand what Dude was getting at. Like,

15:26

when you're in that moment,

15:28

that's so precious and you can't replicate that.

15:30

And so that's, like, Muir

15:32

rob that's

15:33

your raw material. And so I think that

15:35

reflecting on running

15:38

realize, like, our raw material was

15:41

so incredible that, like, if if

15:43

when we do it again,

15:46

I'll I'll go back and, like, take that

15:48

insight that we could

15:50

take one idea and stretch

15:52

it up. I learned this when I was a

15:54

journalist at Fader and I learned this teaching

15:56

like poetry and and

15:58

journalism to, like, high school kids in New York City.

16:00

It's, like, everybody is always

16:02

teaching you and asking you to go big and

16:04

think big, you know. I

16:06

was always going in the opposite direction. That's

16:08

something that's worth. But, like, to

16:10

go small and think small and take something

16:12

granular mine it and

16:14

mine it and mine it and extrapolate it for

16:16

a larger truth. You know?

16:18

Well, it's

16:19

not like in in every episode that

16:21

we recorded to be like, And

16:23

Tina's just taking it way too big, and I'm just

16:25

gonna bring

16:26

it back down. Like, that was me. Ring.

16:28

You you're it's weird. Like, people don't

16:30

know. People people know

16:32

you on your on this podcast, people

16:34

don't me so much. But, like -- Mhmm. -- I

16:36

think people would be surprised if if I

16:38

described it as like a wide receiver. You have this game in the

16:40

United States called football. And

16:42

I mean, you actually use

16:44

your

16:44

foot for the game like you shared with

16:46

the word?

16:47

At at one point, like, at one One

16:49

moment in the game, you use your the rest

16:51

of the time, why is it quadruple there?

16:53

Well, because it's you know,

16:55

when you get to a certain level of execution,

16:58

It's about picking a small idea and extrapolating.

17:01

And so Right. Okay. It's

17:03

regarding that. One second. picking one time would

17:05

give its name to the entire

17:07

endeavor. Okay. If

17:10

if you were on the football team, I

17:12

think people would be surprised that you'd

17:15

you'd

17:15

probably be like, wide receiver. Like, you'd

17:17

probably be, like, the wild

17:21

hectic

17:21

dude. would I can fly it

17:23

out under his helmet, like, running all down

17:25

and, like, catching and doing the end zone. I

17:27

don't think people would think that I mean,

17:29

you're definitely not a linebacker. But I

17:31

don't I don't really understand what this means. I

17:34

just don't know what you're looking at. If you're

17:36

listening or so, you're listening to

17:38

the heartland.

17:39

that your listeners

17:40

will know what I mean. You wanna find out if

17:42

that's a compliment or an in so and if when

17:44

this comes out. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely high

17:47

compliment. I have nothing but high compliments

17:49

for you. Thank

17:50

you. You know you know the same

17:52

work at you.

17:55

So what

17:57

was I gonna say from there about about

17:59

this? Yeah. You're

18:00

saying about, like,

18:03

the

18:06

stretching these these topics out,

18:08

and it and it did feel that way that we were

18:10

rushing rushing to get these out.

18:12

We wanted to make these the

18:15

best that they could be. We wanted to get on a schedule. Maybe a bit

18:17

too ambitious of what we were trying to

18:19

do. But I would love to

18:21

talk about for a minute then. You just

18:23

said about how everyone

18:25

is, you know, thinking

18:27

very big, you know, really

18:28

getting carried away with being

18:31

white receivers

18:31

if that's what I kind of got of that,

18:33

whatever that means.

18:36

But I I will say that

18:38

you have been such a good you know

18:40

this. I told you this endless

18:42

amounts of times. You have been so

18:44

good for me in that way to

18:46

remind me, to be more in

18:48

the moment, to you

18:52

know, just jump into

18:54

these opportunities that present not

18:56

necessarily like a big campaign or

18:58

a big projects, but,

18:59

like, the the the

19:01

simple moments that come day to

19:03

day, and I am, like, endlessly

19:05

grateful to you for that.

19:07

for and I've sent you pictures. Have a nice You

19:10

know, I was out on my long run and I

19:12

just jumped in this river and thought

19:14

of you because that's the kind of thing

19:16

you do. So you

19:17

can't

19:18

you can't overlook you

19:20

know, there's been a

19:21

few moments that you've had, and

19:24

it's actually not at all about,

19:26

like, our

19:27

relationship where you're sharing those with me, but I, as an observer

19:29

on your journey, who have had

19:31

those moments, the simple ones where we've just jumped

19:33

in a river, and then,

19:35

like, the larger trend not larger, but, like,

19:38

also super

19:41

rich transcended moments that

19:43

you've had in Hawaii or, you

19:45

know, like,

19:46

connecting with

19:48

unexpected personalities. Mhmm.

19:51

unanticipated conversations that

19:54

have shifted you

19:58

in a way, you know, of

19:59

course, the guest has to turn the tables on

20:02

the podcaster. But

20:04

in a way,

20:05

you

20:07

have,

20:08

like, AAA

20:10

widely received

20:14

podcast

20:14

in

20:15

the running space. And in

20:18

your

20:18

life, you've

20:22

been working really hard to

20:24

run away from running. and

20:26

-- Mhmm.

20:28

-- unsuccessfully. Surprise to

20:31

anybody. We consider a

20:33

runner. And

20:36

but some of the biggest revelations that

20:39

you've

20:40

had have been found outside

20:42

of, like, a parochial run-in especially

20:44

the parochial run-in context that you

20:46

enjoyed or, you know,

20:49

eminently enjoyed earlier

20:51

in in in an earlier episode

20:53

of of your life. So what's fascinating

20:56

is

20:56

that your

20:58

instincts that there were something beyond

21:00

depending on a

21:01

bib and, you know, running

21:04

two thirty seven, there was something

21:06

beyond that.

21:08

has

21:08

had you running Heather and Jan to

21:10

find

21:11

that. And

21:13

yet,

21:16

here you are. back to

21:18

where you started with those insights,

21:20

and now you're back at the workbench,

21:23

like thinking about running.

21:25

That's That's awesome.

21:27

I love that.

21:30

Go into that more in terms

21:33

of for for

21:35

someone who's thinking, like, at this point,

21:37

I know you enough to know to know what

21:39

you're you're hinting at there. But I think some people

21:41

may what do you mean by back at the work

21:43

bench, back at the you know, back

21:45

up running, expand

21:47

a little more on that. You just

21:49

went you just went and, like, shave five

21:51

minutes off a course record at a

21:53

showroom. this is like you've spent your

21:56

entire social media running

21:58

cultural bandwidth kicking and

22:00

screaming about, like, how

22:03

much Don't make

22:05

me do this, but like, how

22:09

hard? You don't like running? How

22:11

much? How hard trail running

22:13

is? how much how

22:16

bad it is and how much you don't

22:18

like it. I don't know if I was

22:20

going there. I think it was to you

22:22

just, like, you're ringing your hands at every step of the way. You

22:25

you dislike running

22:27

you complain about running so much that you

22:29

complain about other runners

22:31

Knox only do you complain about your own running, but

22:33

you complain about other runners. You know

22:36

what you sound like? You sound like a runner.

22:38

Every time you're like, man. The whole

22:40

thing about running is tie

22:42

in your laces. I was I'll sometimes

22:44

I'll just, like, get a newsletter,

22:46

and it'll it'll just be like, you break my

22:49

news up? No. I'm I'm lying, but,

22:51

like, people said to me, like,

22:53

people people send me your newsletter. This is

22:55

this is not like, people send me your newsletter. It's like,

22:57

yo, what does your go on about today? And

22:59

your newsletter will be like, as I

23:01

tie my vases. I thought

23:03

about why are we tied down? Why

23:05

are my feet tied down and impressed by

23:07

these laces? Huggies, though.

23:09

And my apologies.

23:12

This

23:12

is your pure runner. Like, you know

23:14

what I mean? And it's great to see you circle back

23:16

to that inspiration. And

23:19

encountered

23:20

anew. Right? Like, I was

23:22

working with this idea several years ago that

23:24

a a Buddhist, a

23:26

Korean Buddhist monk in Los Angeles, and

23:29

it's a easily digestible idea,

23:31

but actually this one dude did say it.

23:33

Mhmm. I shot that to hey, Kim

23:35

Tafari, who put me on to this who

23:37

just priests, but he said, of course, in

23:40

the mind of the

23:42

beginner, the possibilities are

23:44

endless, and

23:44

in the mind of the master, the possibilities,

23:47

or few. and you

23:49

look at

23:50

it straightforward and you're

23:52

like, oh, okay. Cool. Like, well, everybody wants to

23:54

be a master. don't use that

23:56

word after twenty twenty so much, but

23:58

the concept of

23:59

mastery. And so the idea is

24:02

to, like,

24:03

achieve mastery, aspire to

24:06

mastery, be

24:08

an

24:08

influencer, be an expert, be

24:10

a top rated podcast,

24:12

house but

24:14

it's a Zen

24:15

idea. And upon

24:17

reflection and, I mean, like, several years

24:19

of reflection and, like, meditation on

24:22

it, for me personally. Obviously,

24:25

the opposite not

24:27

the opposite, but the

24:29

other meaning is that

24:32

we should always aspire to

24:34

the mind of the beginner, the

24:36

master. should aspire

24:38

to the mind of the beginner. We should

24:40

wake up every morning and like.

24:42

Knox

24:44

should. could

24:45

and

24:46

we would wake up

24:48

every morning and consider

24:50

all the possibilities for the

24:52

day. It's not about being like

24:54

an established

24:55

master and an expert

24:57

and like telling other people what to do

24:59

and telling people,

25:01

That's that's not a master.

25:04

You know? That's a

25:05

slave master maybe. But like what what

25:08

for all of us the opportunity

25:10

exists for us to always embrace the

25:12

beginner's mind. Mhmm. And

25:14

feel it. And like, that's

25:17

where you're at right now. That's the joy I saw

25:19

when you won this race over the weekend.

25:21

That's the joy that I when I read

25:23

in your post about it, why I started, like, giving

25:25

you a hard time about it because I was like,

25:28

oh,

25:28

she's

25:29

back to the beginning. That's that's a

25:32

and and also, in the late capitalist

25:35

context, it's not

25:36

held out for us, and it doesn't happen nearly

25:38

enough. So congratulations. I'm

25:40

happy

25:40

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27:44

To

27:46

be fair

27:49

to me,

27:50

though, on feel like the world was

27:53

telling me to get away from running.

27:55

Okay? Every every time I

27:57

signed up for a trail race, something would

27:59

stop me from getting to the start

28:01

line. And you

28:02

know me, I'm very woo and I

28:04

kind of believe things kind of

28:06

work out the way that they do

28:08

and and the universe

28:10

is kind of planning for whatever

28:13

it's supposed to be. And

28:15

so, yeah, I can't

28:17

see how I was very niggids

28:18

ever times.

28:20

And probably

28:23

still will be,

28:24

but yeah. Now

28:27

I

28:27

find myself in a strange place

28:30

in

28:30

there. I

28:33

have to figure out what the next

28:37

directional I I like doing these

28:39

random things. There's a there's

28:41

a trail race coming up here

28:43

that's like seven miles

28:44

straight uphill. I'm thinking of jumping in that because it

28:46

sounds fun. So Right. Right. It's not like a

28:48

runner. Exactly. Exactly. You're like, you said all this.

28:50

And then you're like, For

28:53

example, you know, I'd

28:55

like to this is listen to your I mean, no. You

28:57

don't even have to listen to yourself. That's my job.

28:59

That's us. I don't know. It doesn't

29:01

do you. You just

29:03

said, so lively.

29:05

I like doing these random things.

29:07

You know? For example, There's

29:09

a seven

29:10

mile chill race uphill. No,

29:13

dude. You sound like I

29:15

don't wanna sound like I'm gonna be

29:17

genteel in my language because it's

29:19

twenty twenty three. You sound

29:22

like a runner. You

29:25

just ran a fifty k You've

29:27

seen

29:27

a rough estimate of thirty k.

29:29

Thirty k. It's the same. That's the same.

29:31

No. That's a massive difference.

29:33

A

29:33

thirty k on trails? with

29:35

any degree of difficulty is

29:39

definitely, like, harder

29:40

than a HOKA

29:42

fifty k world record attempt on

29:45

a flat course, with a carbon x

29:47

shoe. I don't have carbon x

29:49

shoes. You know that smokes. Exactly.

29:51

That's how hard your thirty k ones.

29:53

The thirty k again,

29:55

sound like a runner, but there's this thirty k in

29:57

upstate New York that

29:59

Nick Thompson and I first

30:01

kind of, like, were around,

30:03

whoa. That's a different anecdote.

30:06

But it's it's a thirty

30:08

k with ten thousand feet gain.

30:10

Wow. And

30:12

the last at the top of the last

30:14

climb, there's the the

30:16

records, like, the fuselage of a of a

30:18

assessment, like a plane that they

30:21

crashed up to the mountain, like,

30:23

if your trail run doesn't

30:25

have, like, the wreckage of a plane at

30:27

the top, like, Is it even a

30:30

trial run? Like, oh, I'm

30:32

not

30:32

I'm not know. How are you gonna go

30:34

forward into your running and things like that?

30:37

When you have just climbed

30:39

Mount Kilimanjaro. How

30:41

do you not how are you gonna

30:43

go into runs and not be like, how

30:45

does this even count when I just climbed up?

30:47

this mountain? Well,

30:50

I'm always

30:51

gonna be in love with these lines

30:54

from

30:54

an an

30:56

anonymous Intuit

30:58

Fisher --

30:58

Mhmm. -- at the early

31:01

recorded by an after apologies to the beginning of the

31:03

twentieth century. And and the lines are,

31:05

you know, the

31:08

whole

31:09

recording

31:10

us about, you

31:12

know,

31:13

being beset by

31:15

fears. about

31:17

the natural world and are you gonna be able to prepare

31:19

for your family as you go out for the

31:21

harvest or the hunt? And

31:23

I have

31:23

to just, like, have a moment of

31:25

fertitude and

31:27

self determination

31:29

and and go out

31:32

there. And the recording concludes

31:34

and said, there there is, you

31:36

know,

31:36

there is only one thing, the great

31:39

thing, and that's to live and

31:41

to see in huts

31:42

and on journeys, the great

31:44

day that dawns and the light that

31:46

fills the world. And -- Yeah.

31:48

-- it's

31:48

that

31:49

scale. that

31:52

kind of

31:53

illuminates my life. It that, like,

31:56

when I'm thinking about when I'm

31:58

on somebody Kilimanjaro, I'm

31:59

thinking about

32:01

my daughter, my kids back in

32:04

school, you know, back in Los Angeles. Were

32:05

you is that really one of the things that came

32:07

to mind when you're at the when you're at the summit? for

32:09

sure. I don't know if this is gonna, like, fall

32:11

on on on deaf ears or, like, come

32:14

across wrong to to your

32:16

listeners,

32:17

but, like, I

32:18

was I

32:19

I'm like I act like JZ

32:21

and Diddy when I get up and

32:23

don't worry. Like so when I brush

32:26

on my teeth, You know?

32:27

Like, so when I'm on top of a mountain, I don't act like

32:29

I'm diddy on the mountain. Like, when I'm on

32:31

top of the mountain, I'm like,

32:34

thinking

32:34

about, like, people I love and I'm, like, overcome and I'm

32:36

I'm feeling humble. You know, I think that's the also

32:38

one of the incredible experiences about trail running,

32:41

actually, is that in

32:43

mountain running, is that,

32:45

like, it's it's so emotional. And, like,

32:47

when I'm working with, like, new runners or I'm

32:49

bringing people to Ben Trail or,

32:51

like, working with people on their Altra's or the

32:53

and and shout out to all, like, the elite Ultra runners

32:55

out there and and professionals and all

32:57

that, like

32:58

but the visceral

33:02

experience of the

33:04

sky bearing down on you, like the immensey of

33:06

this and the sky bearing down on

33:08

you, and then the

33:10

intensity of this,

33:12

like, earth's crust,

33:16

like this

33:16

infinite

33:20

expands and infinite time of

33:23

of rock pressing up again. So the hardness of

33:25

the rock and the airiness of

33:27

the sky meeting on the one plane

33:29

and you're the fulcrum. Like, when you're

33:32

running across that rock face,

33:34

with all that

33:36

beauty and maybe your legs are screaming

33:38

or maybe your, like, well fueled

33:40

and it's fine. But nevertheless, you're the

33:43

fulcrum between, you

33:45

know,

33:45

heaven and earth and Knox you're

33:47

that point, that intensity, is

33:49

really tough for, like, the human

33:52

body to be, like, to to to

33:54

be that channel, not to take it to an

33:56

esoteric dimension, but, like, that

33:59

that's kinda one of, like, what the

34:01

existential challenges of trail running and trail

34:03

racing can be as, like, you get out

34:04

there and all of a sudden, Sky is

34:06

pressing down and earth is pressing up and, like,

34:08

you're the meeting point. Mhmm.

34:12

And And

34:14

and I think that's the challenge in. And so yeah. And

34:16

then you can throw an altitude on

34:20

that. And I'll just say, you're you're crying.

34:22

You know?

34:23

Yeah. Well, I didn't I felt

34:25

that you mentioned about Maui earlier.

34:27

Like, obviously, you had

34:29

to wait, like, Well, you shouldn't

34:31

be like about comparing experiences, but I definitely felt that when I was at the

34:34

top of Haliakala

34:38

in Maui, very

34:39

similar thing. You're at this. It just made

34:41

everything crystal clear and made

34:42

me realize how small I was

34:46

and how Yeah.

34:49

How simple life actually is when I was standing there looking

34:51

down into this, like,

34:54

crater. And

34:55

and Yeah.

34:56

Same thing. Feel the sky. Feel the earth. Never

34:58

felt -- Yeah. -- more connected to earth sits.

35:00

I was I was so many Gillimanjaro,

35:03

and I, you know,

35:06

I I it

35:06

was I felt like I was a son

35:08

of Africa, you know. Like for me, it's

35:10

like a black American -- Mhmm. --

35:13

to be so dramatically and torturously

35:15

removed from the land of my

35:18

ancestors to have been

35:21

afforded the experience privilege

35:23

or happenstance or work, you

35:26

know, or not, to go to

35:28

the highest peak

35:30

in Africa

35:30

is a profoundly spiritual experience, but

35:32

not unlike a profoundly experience

35:34

profound experience to run, like, to

35:37

run the comrades, to run

35:40

you know, the world's ultra marathon and it's a hard

35:42

race or whatever, but I'm still

35:44

running through Zulu

35:46

Heartland. when you're learning

35:49

congrats. And so for me as a black American, congrats marathon is

35:51

like a profound is a profound

35:53

experience. Yeah. But also, like, the first

35:55

time I felt it, you

35:57

know, I was in, like, Phylla

35:59

Cote's house, like, as a young music journalist for

36:02

the Fader magazine,

36:04

twenty two,

36:04

twenty three years ago, twenty two years

36:06

ago, actually, like, around this time.

36:10

But I was

36:10

in Fela's house, and I was,

36:13

like, around Fela's wives and

36:15

Fela's dancers. And actually, I was,

36:17

like, right around Lagos and, like, a

36:19

metallic gold Mercedes Benz with Faela's son,

36:21

you Knox, coming through

36:23

the sunroof, but, like, to to

36:25

to think that

36:27

You know, that that had

36:29

this moment

36:31

where, you know, you have,

36:33

like, American guilt first world

36:36

guilt, developed world guilt,

36:38

class guilt or whatever. And

36:40

so I was in Philias

36:44

Hell's House, this

36:45

was the year two I I think my first trip to Africa.

36:48

Mhmm. They're in Lagos Nigeria.

36:50

And and Falakoto, your your listeners will

36:54

but this incredibly titanic force

36:55

in in in world

36:58

music, definitely

36:58

was, like, had one of the

37:00

best bands in the twentieth century. several

37:03

of iterations of

37:05

this band, incredible music. So check out

37:07

Phil Acuzzi for for folks who are hearing about it for the first time

37:09

that I was in, he he died in

37:12

the in in nineteen ninety six. Maybe in in two thousand, I was there, like, digging

37:14

on his his legacy and and writing a

37:16

story and causing trouble. Anyways,

37:19

the was One of the the rhodes or

37:21

one of the guys in the band, I was I feel like

37:24

I don't know. I was dragging bringing

37:26

my wrists. I was like, you know, young

37:28

Tina. I

37:30

was like, young black male tina in Tina

37:34

Lagos. Tyrone

37:35

Muir. I was I

37:37

was Tyrone Mure there. And I'm,

37:40

like, ringing my hands.

37:42

And his brother just, like, was

37:44

smoking on a cliff and he was just, like,

37:47

He just

37:50

turned to me in the haze and he said mother

37:54

Africa has a story for each one of her

37:56

sons and daughters. And

37:58

it's up to each one of her sons

37:59

and daughters to

38:02

uncover and discover what that story is

38:05

and tell it. Wow.

38:07

And

38:10

obviously,

38:10

since our species originated

38:12

in Africa, we're all

38:14

sons and daughters of Africa. But

38:16

I

38:18

was just, like, sitting like,

38:20

smoking

38:22

weed

38:23

in in Nigeria, like, in in

38:25

in Felakuchi's house.

38:28

you know, like, twenty

38:30

twenty plus years ago.

38:32

But the

38:32

idea was so liberatory. It

38:35

is at once

38:37

so liberator to to freed me up

38:39

from -- Yeah. -- the

38:41

vicitudes of of personal history and

38:43

also, like, political

38:46

and, like, you

38:47

know, temporal history, but also gives you

38:49

a mission. You know?

38:52

Like, what

38:52

what

38:54

What's what's

38:54

what's your story? Like, the

38:56

story's there for you Already, but

38:59

you're the only

39:00

one to discover it. You

39:02

know? someone can

39:03

come along and

39:06

and and plea to the sign on

39:07

Maui and give you a little, you know, give

39:09

you a little energy

39:12

and someone can hold up a mirror. You know,

39:14

this is like a this is what

39:16

coaching is

39:16

like. You know, I know people came to you

39:18

for, like, running podcasts talk.

39:21

So this is what coaching is like. It's like, you're just holding

39:23

up a mirror

39:24

to someone, you Knox?

39:27

you're in

39:28

that that

39:30

typical Zen example.

39:32

It's just blocks

39:32

of stone Knox you're Muir, like,

39:35

removing or just removing the sculpture that's

39:37

already there. That's what coaching is like.

39:40

Sorry to all the immaculate

39:42

coaches who are

39:44

tuning in right

39:44

Knox. I'm not gonna mention you by name. I'm not gonna give you the gratification of

39:46

me, this and you. You know, there's

39:49

progress. I know you guys think

39:52

you're rewriting humanity with your immaculate workouts, but

39:55

all we're

39:57

doing is removing

39:59

the moving We're

40:00

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40:01

adding. We're just removing and and revealing what's helping

40:03

reveal what's already

40:06

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42:24

I I have to say,

42:26

yeah, III find it hard with the

42:28

coaching side of things all at the time with,

42:30

like, last weekend for me being

42:32

a prime example. I have done

42:35

very

42:35

little lately. I have

42:37

no structure. I jump in

42:39

friends workouts occasionally. Jump in

42:41

long runs. And

42:44

it

42:44

really made me think of all the

42:46

energy spent on trying to get the

42:48

perfect workout or

42:48

trying to make these buildups

42:51

line up when really

42:54

the

42:54

workouts themselves. Yes. Okay. You

42:56

need certain elements to if you wanna

42:58

maximize potential, but it

43:00

that matters less than

43:02

you know,

43:03

what's going on in that person's

43:06

life, the

43:07

the the

43:10

kind of mental

43:11

side of it, the, as you

43:13

said, holding up a mirror to someone to

43:15

seeing what they need to be,

43:17

to

43:17

believe in

43:20

that potential. the workouts themselves at

43:22

least from what I can see,

43:24

matter less than I think I thought they

43:26

did before. Yeah.

43:28

I mean, that's that's definitely, like,

43:30

true or not true. That's definitely, like, a viable

43:33

and a valid idea. But

43:36

then, What if

43:38

you design

43:39

the workouts

43:42

along that principle? What if you design what if

43:44

you crafted

43:46

workouts along that spiritual idea instead of,

43:49

like, you

43:50

know, recruiting mitochondria idea.

43:52

Like, what if you Isn't

43:55

that kind of what

43:57

Ryan holded though? Who did? Yes. Isn't that kind of what Ryan holded towards

43:59

the

43:59

end of his career, but it was god

44:02

guiding him?

44:02

I'm not a I'm

44:04

not a

44:04

born again Christian apologist, but

44:08

I

44:09

i

44:11

And I'm

44:11

and I'm and I'm Knox, like, a friend of,

44:14

like, white male

44:15

in Germany or,

44:17

like, white supremacy? Mhmm.

44:19

And I

44:19

was out of running for a lot

44:21

of time for Ryan Hall's

44:23

whole mythic

44:24

rise. Yeah. That's true.

44:26

But

44:27

I was watching

44:28

on the

44:30

TV, on the laptop,

44:32

the laptop the

44:34

year he wowed it out in Boston at the end of his

44:37

career. And that

44:40

that changed

44:42

you. That was transfigured. I mean, he was

44:44

he was transfigured in

44:46

that moment, you

44:47

know. Like, all the

44:49

bible verses and the and the and

44:51

the and the Christian

44:54

proselytizing. It plays well in America because

44:56

obviously, like,

44:58

that's like That's

44:58

like what what the system has has been thrust

44:59

upon us, but he

45:03

he

45:04

he took it to

45:05

another level. Mhmm. and

45:08

since that

45:09

time and then wasn't rewarded. Then,

45:11

you know, like, ran, like, ran one of

45:13

the Illinois races of all time, one of

45:15

the fastest times. everybody,

45:18

you know, that was just like that was like that

45:20

was like white that was like a white op. That

45:22

was just like peak moment in white

45:25

history. know white folks got their little moments,

45:27

but that was, like, a peak moment in white history. And

45:29

then when it was over, people went into the

45:32

rule book, like, did the most

45:34

white folks. but right into the

45:36

fine print and is actually,

45:38

like, actually, fam

45:40

doesn't count. So at his

45:43

widest moment, the blackest thing

45:43

happen to it, because that's what they do to black people all

45:46

the time. Like, black people

45:48

over achieve and then

45:50

the system comes and

45:52

it's like, Actually, we found this

45:54

little rule that it doesn't

45:56

count. Ryan Hall had

45:58

the Peak

45:59

White moment And

46:01

then they went down the

46:03

road looking at, like, to the

46:05

white Christian

46:08

blonde best runner of all time. It was

46:10

just, like, Actually, your time doesn't count

46:12

me. That's

46:12

when I started falling in

46:14

love with the dude. And since that time,

46:17

he's only stayed black. Actually, if if I,

46:20

like, had a job in the meter, if I

46:22

really had a

46:23

a running publication just

46:26

stuck under my control. I

46:28

would this would the

46:30

the the the the

46:32

endomitable blackness of

46:34

frying hall. This is like this is a this

46:36

is the kind of thing I used to write about when

46:38

I was in music. I've read about Eric Clapton.

46:41

You know, like, I've been writing about Eric Clapton. and,

46:43

you know, and this way. Ryan I'll add Eric Clapton

46:45

moment. Okay. You know, you

46:46

got

46:47

the Eric Clapton

46:50

was

46:50

like a peak. The peak.

46:52

White was a

46:53

peak moment in white history. They

46:56

said that when

46:56

you would go to London,

46:59

that it was a

47:00

spray painting on the walls

47:02

clapping his God. That's what

47:04

that's what this graffiti used to

47:06

say. Not even fuck the man

47:09

fuck them. You did the the the graffiti. All these butt these

47:12

buttfuckers were just right shit

47:14

like, clapton is God

47:16

and i am clapton

47:18

took his girlfriend out on a date to

47:21

a little

47:21

underground little underground cafe

47:23

in

47:23

London just to

47:26

see this. This

47:27

guy Blue's

47:28

guy came in from you know, hey, babe. You

47:30

wanna go for a date, you know, take a girl out.

47:32

You're a captain. You go to VIP

47:35

section. And and the guy on

47:37

the stage is just a

47:39

weirdo black dude from Seattle named James

47:42

Marshall Hendrix. Mhmm.

47:44

Outside

47:48

on the brick wall that says clapped in his guide and

47:50

then clapped in his Rich,

47:52

drug to fuck out. And then all

47:54

of a sudden,

47:54

he just sees James Marshall

47:57

Hendrix do stuff

47:59

he had never even Mhmm.

48:02

I don't They said Jimmy

48:04

Hendrix. The reason they killed

48:05

Jimmy Hendrix is because he had

48:07

figured out the frequency to, like,

48:10

make shapes and colors

48:12

come out of the air. Like, he could

48:14

he could, like, play the guitar up against

48:16

amp and, like, get it right. And then he

48:18

can play, like, in the studio. And, like, he could make

48:21

the air vibrate and turn

48:23

colors and shapes like

48:26

there sonically. Mhmm. I know we're losing a

48:28

lot of followers on this. But They were

48:30

like, where is he going with this? Yeah.

48:36

Clapton was

48:36

king of it all and

48:38

he crushed his brain. And

48:41

from there on

48:43

and out, he

48:45

Like, knew he was

48:47

never gonna, like, that

48:50

far. He had all the

48:52

privilege and all

48:54

the prestige. and all the promise. And what did he do? He

48:56

got thrown out on heroin. He fell in

48:58

love with his best friend's wife.

49:00

His best friend's wife left

49:01

the best friend. and,

49:03

like, went with and they went back to their best friend. And

49:06

that's when he wrote Layla. That's what

49:08

Layla's about.

49:10

And

49:11

then since that time, obviously, everybody

49:13

knows. He's dapper. He's rich.

49:16

He's incredibly

49:18

talented. and heartache and

49:20

heartbreak and the blues that he wanted

49:22

followed him

49:23

in real life every step of the

49:25

way. Mhmm. He lost his father

49:27

and he lost This is a man who lost

49:29

his father and his infant son. That's the

49:31

blues.

49:31

Yeah. That's what he wanted and

49:33

that's what he got. And

49:35

that's black. And that's

49:38

what happened to Ryan Hall.

49:39

Ryan Hall took it so

49:41

far. And

49:42

since that day in Boston,

49:44

I

49:45

mean, he retired

49:47

after that, adopted

49:49

four black girls, became

49:53

a black dad. and doesn't even

49:55

run and just lifts hell of weights

49:58

and he's like he walks around

49:59

like he's he's on a muscle beach in

50:02

Venice. This dude looks like Ryan Hall is like he

50:04

just got out of jail. Like, I know everyone thinks

50:06

he's great and men's health wants to do a feature

50:08

on him and, you know, Ryan Hall's

50:10

physique is like,

50:12

jail level to see. Like, this Ryan Hall looks like he just got prison.

50:14

That's how chiseled this dude is.

50:17

Nina is is

50:20

I love you so much. I I couldn't.

50:22

Since that day in Boston, I've

50:24

only

50:24

grown and love and admiration for

50:28

I love Ryan Hall. I love the halls. I love Sarah Hall.

50:30

Obviously, everybody knows she's sensational on, like,

50:32

what's going on in her running.

50:35

And in life, just continues to boggle the mind and

50:37

you don't wanna comment on it. You

50:40

don't wanna have her

50:41

on your podcast because

50:43

just wanna

50:43

keep eating the popcorn and watching. Like, you don't wanna

50:45

push pause and be like, let me go to the

50:47

bathroom. You're just like, I'm just gonna keep eating

50:50

popcorn because

50:52

incredible. And now, obviously, their daughters are

50:54

incredible, and their daughters are on their way.

50:56

So shout out to the Hall

50:58

family. Yeah. The

51:00

whitest

51:00

the blackest white family

51:03

in America. Well, as

51:05

much as I have loved you're a

51:07

a whole tangent there, having ten minutes of your professing

51:09

your love in a in a really

51:11

roundabout way for the

51:13

for the halls there.

51:16

I

51:16

wanna bring it back in

51:18

just for for rounding this out. We

51:20

we got

51:20

a topic with coaching. You

51:23

have been coaching

51:25

I mean, primary I mean, you have multiple people you

51:28

coach, but you've been doing a lot of

51:30

focus on a lot

51:32

of women in the space who you saw it

51:34

potential is. Tina. You

51:36

have had had the potential and

51:38

now have done it breaking

51:40

three hours in

51:42

the marathon. episode one of Running

51:44

Realises about how there was the list. And at that time, twenty

51:46

women, black women in

51:49

the US had broken three

51:52

hours. Tell us about some of that,

51:54

like, that journey to,

51:56

you know, before

51:57

you

51:58

were sharing

51:59

stories about people

52:01

you were helping grow, black

52:04

running culture, but now you're a part

52:06

of the change.

52:08

What does that change do? Yeah. you're holding

52:10

up

52:10

the mirror to myself. But,

52:12

you know, I'm real.

52:14

Our podcast was cool. I'm

52:18

not saying that was impetus. I knew that was already on your mind before that

52:20

one. No. No. No. Was it? The podcast after

52:22

what happened after the podcast was annoying

52:26

because We let off. We had a little boost that hit social media.

52:28

We turned some people on. And

52:30

then people were running down the road

52:32

talking about the list. rightfully

52:35

so. You wanted to raise the

52:37

awareness, but,

52:40

like, I

52:42

got agitated and annoyed at, like, our own work.

52:44

Like, people were talking about the

52:46

list, like, that was the

52:50

point. when the point of the list was -- Grandma.

52:52

-- opposite was true. And so then I

52:54

was like, no. No. No. No. No. It's

52:57

not about, like, the lists or

52:59

getting on the list is that the fuck to

53:01

think that the extent that there's a

53:03

list is fucked

53:05

up. And

53:06

so I then I just, like, a couple months later, I just

53:08

had to start telling people, like, in black roses, the I'm black women. I

53:11

was, like, we gotta destroy

53:13

the list, actually. If you're like,

53:15

no. What do you mean? We're just so

53:18

close. I was like, no,

53:20

dude. We gotta blow up the list. I mean, I know

53:22

that's not like fit for

53:24

public consumption. chat out to all

53:26

the allies out there who are, like, telling the story about the list. Keep on doing it.

53:29

It's crucial.

53:30

But I just

53:31

mean, like, on a philosophical and

53:34

a justice level, like, it shouldn't even happen. That

53:36

doesn't mean, don't talk about it.

53:39

Kyle Murphy,

53:40

talk about it, please. and

53:43

and Chris Chavez. Thanks, guys. And and thanks

53:45

to, like, white women allies out there and

53:47

and all the sisters who are, like, inspired

53:49

to join the list. Let's

53:52

train. But

53:54

the idea is

53:56

to,

53:56

like, get so many

53:58

people on the list that it

53:59

goes away. You know what

54:01

I mean? That we have so much participation.

54:04

Yeah. Then we

54:04

have so much excellence and so much performance that

54:06

it makes it goes away. And also,

54:08

shut out to the people who just wanna support it and, like,

54:10

run four hours or five hours or don't line at all. Like, that's all

54:13

part of that conversation, you know,

54:15

the culture. And so I

54:18

I did have to go from

54:20

to to become a little more activist,

54:22

you know. And that felt

54:24

good, you know, because now

54:25

I've I've had

54:28

we have three people on the list. So shout out to the the women

54:30

I've I've I've coached who or

54:32

with whom I've worked who are on the list. And,

54:34

you know, there's, you know,

54:36

three or four or five around who

54:38

are jumping up a bit or or waiting for AAA

54:41

downhill course

54:42

with a strong tailwind.

54:46

You don't know you don't have taken away

54:48

from you, definitely.

54:50

Are you going

54:51

for Boston? Jeez.

54:54

I've loved seeing it. I've loved

54:55

yeah. As a yeah. I'm fully with you.

54:58

That's crazy. That's

54:58

a thing. Right? And also shout out

55:00

to Gary Corbett, the son of Ted

55:04

Corbett, Senior Senior Club

55:06

member and and the United

55:08

States first black American to

55:10

represent the country in the

55:12

Olympic Marathon. back in the

55:14

fifties in Helsinki. His son, Gary Corbett,

55:16

maintains

55:16

a list and creates

55:18

a list.

55:21

So

55:22

so

55:24

shout

55:25

out to the Elders for sure who are maintaining that.

55:28

I'm just a disruptor

55:30

sadly. I wish I was rank and file. I

55:32

wish I was, you

55:34

know, insider,

55:35

but I'm, unfortunately,

55:37

like, an agitator. But that's

55:39

what's needed. We've Yeah. Yeah. It's

55:41

it's,

55:41

you know, got a

55:42

it's it's a tricky thing

55:44

to put food on

55:44

the table when you just out there.

55:48

Oh,

55:48

I hear you. cocktails. You can't you

55:50

can't you can't eat maltese cocktails, you do. I

55:55

hear you. I I'm

55:56

in the same boat many

55:59

many times. Knox, I you know

56:01

I could talk to you all day.

56:04

I we did cram this in in a in a small space,

56:06

but thank you

56:08

for for fab

56:13

attempted to say your support in me,

56:15

let's say you're at times not

56:17

so gentle shoving in a

56:19

direction I often need. But

56:22

You

56:22

got a lot of you got a lot of friends.

56:24

You got a lot of people around. You got a lot

56:26

of love. That's so I'm freed up from having

56:28

to do that. You you have all the the

56:31

good graces. You've got

56:34

a a great family, and and you've

56:36

got a great support. You Knox, you've got a great community

56:38

So someone's gotta come up with You may disrupt her in that in

56:40

that situation. And you can't help yourself being disrupt

56:43

her in all kinds of ways. there's

56:45

this there's this thing I I you gotta we gotta go. But,

56:48

like, there's this there's this tool in

56:50

Zen

56:50

Buddhism. It's

56:52

called chi

56:53

kusaku. It's not goxo,

56:55

like the Nike inspired, Japanese

56:58

inspired horse wear, but kusaku with

57:00

a k. and it's a

57:02

series of bamboo shafts six

57:04

feet long that are

57:07

tied together. And

57:09

the the abbot. I don't I

57:11

don't like to use the word master, but

57:13

the abbot's walking around and when the

57:16

student is like at

57:18

the peak of their most

57:19

intense meditation, like, meditating

57:22

on sartorius,

57:24

transcendence, enlightenment.

57:26

at the peak and

57:28

folks in black roses are white coach will

57:30

know that this is probably revealing of my coaching

57:32

practice. Right at the moment where they're

57:35

meditating their hardest, for

57:36

this many days. The teacher will come

57:38

around

57:38

and hit them as hard as

57:41

he or she can across

57:44

the back. there's this idea

57:46

that that shock can send someone on

57:48

into enlightenment.

57:50

You know? like

57:52

to think that maybe I'm could be that in

57:54

your life. Like, when you're working so

57:56

hard, you got everything, you're doing all

57:58

the work, and someone's gotta

57:59

come in this throw bucket of cold water on you.

58:02

Yeah. That's definitely your own. It's it's

58:04

met with love. You know what I

58:06

mean? Well, I I

58:06

can't say I give you that role back,

58:08

but hopefully I have some positive

58:10

benefit in your life as well because

58:13

Well, your friend your friend when

58:16

I don't haven't always felt that I've had one. So Oh, you I

58:18

love you, and I'm always

58:19

well. Mhmm. Alright,

58:22

friend. I

58:22

or in friends i

58:24

appreciate

58:25

you joining me. I wish we had more time talking about you and what

58:27

you've been up to, but we I guess, we'll save

58:29

that for another

58:29

one. We won't wait

58:32

till next time. And I'm Yeah. We

58:34

should start a podcast. We should start a podcast together. Yeah. Stay tuned to the listeners.

58:36

This we'll see all these

58:40

guys. Maybe maybe running realized series two will come in,

58:42

like, twenty twenty

58:44

seven or maybe something else we'll

58:46

see.

58:47

Sorry. My calendar. What was that?

58:49

It's already in

58:49

my calendar. Oh, thanks. Great. I'm glad I've been

58:51

out of this new calendar.

58:54

Alright. Thank you now. Alright.

58:56

Bye, dear.

58:57

The running for real

59:00

podcast and everything we do here at

59:02

running for real would not be

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possible if it wasn't for the running

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the maybe the face of the brand, the

59:12

rest of our team are such

59:15

critical pieces of what we do. And without them, I think I'd just be

59:17

running around in circles with ideas. So

59:19

I wanna take a moment to

59:21

thank our team. our team to

59:24

Jeremy Nestle, who's been with me since the very beginning. Cat

59:28

McKay, Sally

59:29

Ponterelli, Kelsey Wang,

59:31

Sandy Gutierrez,

59:32

Louise Murphy,

59:34

Andrew Passola, Alexandria Will,

59:37

and Maria Vargas, Thank you

59:39

to each and every one of you for all that you

59:42

give to running for real in our

59:44

community. I

59:46

appreciate you. and I'm so thankful for having you as a

59:48

part of the

59:50

team.

59:50

There you really got to hear

59:53

the true relations it we have

59:56

and we went off on a tangent

59:58

there. And I didn't actually get to ask

59:59

him a lot of the things I intended to. I

1:00:02

will admit that episode, I had to rush

1:00:04

off. I had another interview

1:00:06

that I had put a bit too

1:00:08

close to that one, and so we didn't

1:00:10

even get to ask I didn't get talk

1:00:12

about a lot of the things we want to.

1:00:14

I wanted to and wanted to dig into.

1:00:16

So maybe there will be another something

1:00:18

coming soon. Stay tuned. But

1:00:21

in the meantime, I hope you enjoyed getting to know NOx a little

1:00:23

bit more. He has become a important person in

1:00:25

my life. And

1:00:29

It was great to talk to him

1:00:31

as always. I hope you enjoyed this episode. You

1:00:33

can go find links to everything we talked

1:00:36

about as well as where you can

1:00:38

find NOx. running for real dot com forward slash episode 326

1:00:40

You can also find links to running real

1:00:42

lives there and to our sponsors today.

1:00:44

You can go check our effort Greens,

1:00:46

get that one year free supply of vitamin D3K2 We're going to

1:00:49

FSH at greens dot com forward

1:00:51

slash tina. You can also

1:00:53

check out track Max

1:00:55

Smith who are offering

1:00:58

the Elliottrunner is now available. You

1:01:00

can go to trek smith dot com forward

1:01:02

slash tina to go check that out.

1:01:04

And I also wanna encourage you to go check out Patreon. If you have

1:01:06

not already, go to patreon dot com

1:01:08

forward slash running for real with

1:01:11

the number four. I will put links

1:01:13

to all of those in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope

1:01:16

you have a great weekend, and I'll see you on

1:01:18

Monday for another

1:01:20

together then.