0:09

Hey, welcome

0:09

to The Science of Parenting

0:11

podcast where we connect you

0:11

with research-based information

0:14

that fits your family. We'll

0:14

talk about the realities of

0:17

being a parent, and how research

0:17

can help guide our parenting

0:20

decisions. I'm Mackenzie

0:20

Johnson, parent of two littles

0:23

with their own quirks and I'm a

0:23

parenting educator. And I'm here

0:27

in season 12. We are so excited

0:27

to be back this season and to be

0:33

coming at you with new content.

0:33

And you know, last season, we

0:36

got to talk with Dr. Suzanne

0:36

Bartholomae all about the topic

0:40

of kids and money. And we're

0:40

gonna kind of be following a

0:43

similar model this season.

0:43

Similar but also switching it

0:47

up. I don't know. But we're

0:47

really excited. Our co-host this

0:51

season is Courtney Hammond, and

0:51

it's all I have. Courtney, join

0:55

me here. We're so excited.

0:55

Hello.

0:59

Thanks for

0:59

having me, Mackenzie. Super

1:02

excited to be here.

1:03

Yes, we are

1:03

so excited you're here. And so

1:07

you know, in previous seasons,

1:07

we've brought on some of our

1:10

co-hosts who have academic

1:10

expertise, right, like

1:12

professors. But Courtney, you're

1:12

going to bring a different spin

1:15

and a different kind of

1:15

expertise to the table, in part

1:18

with your lived experience, but

1:18

also your professional role. So

1:21

I'll give a little bit of an

1:21

intro, but then I'll let you

1:23

fill in the gaps. So my

1:23

understanding of the lovely

1:27

Courtney and her roles. I know

1:27

her through her work as a

1:32

volunteer manager at Recovery

1:32

Community Center in Cedar

1:35

Rapids, Iowa, which is called

1:35

Crush, and I'm working on the

1:38

acronym, which stands for

1:38

community resources united to

1:41

spread hope. But then you also

1:41

serve as a parent partner,

1:46

right? And then you're a mom of

1:46

two sweet kids.

1:49

Absolutely. So

1:49

I have been in my role as a

1:52

parent partner for almost three

1:52

years. We pretty much advocate

1:55

and help navigate the DHS system

1:55

or DHHS system so I have the

2:03

experience as a child and as an

2:03

adult going through the DHS

2:06

system. We help them get

2:06

successful case closure, which

2:10

looks different in many ways.

2:10

Reunification is a very common

2:13

and our most common goal, but

2:13

sometimes termination, foster

2:16

care, adoption can go that way

2:16

as well. And that is a success

2:20

for the case. So yes, just kind

2:20

of try to advocate for that and

2:24

help them navigate. And then as

2:24

a volunteer coordinator or

2:28

manager, I help rally volunteers

2:28

to help run our center. They are

2:32

really the bread and butter of

2:32

our center. They help make all

2:35

the decisions, they have the

2:35

final calls on groups, they know

2:38

what the community needs. I'm

2:38

just merely here to help make it

2:41

happen. They have all ideas,

2:41

they bring everything to the

2:44

table, they get out in the

2:44

community, they do a lot of the

2:46

muscle work here. And it really

2:46

just makes the the community

2:49

center welcoming and it's

2:49

essential to the center.

2:53

Yeah,

2:53

awesome. Well, I mean, in

2:55

addition to this professional

2:55

expertise you have, you know,

2:59

our podcast season. I really

2:59

should share that, like, why is

3:01

Courtney here. I talked about

3:01

her expertise, but our podcasts

3:04

season is really thinking about

3:04

parenting through challenges.

3:07

And so you know, your

3:07

professional roles really

3:10

overlap with a lot of parents

3:10

who have experienced significant

3:13

challenges. Absolutely. But

3:13

also, if you want to share at

3:15

all about kind of your personal

3:15

experience, I mean, as a parent,

3:18

and just who you are as a person.

3:20

So I'm a child

3:20

of an addict and alcoholic. Grew

3:24

up in a, I was adopted by my

3:24

grandparents. So I've had

3:27

struggles with life since, you

3:27

know, a very young age. And I

3:31

was a very young mother right

3:31

out of high school. So the

3:34

challenges of being a child

3:34

raising a child, and what kind

3:37

of happened with all that and

3:37

what I changed since and then

3:41

also being an active addiction.

3:41

I am in long term recovery. I've

3:43

three and a half years off all

3:43

mind altering substances. And I

3:48

still learn and remain

3:48

teachable. And that's one thing

3:50

I have never done before. And I

3:50

think that's what's really been

3:53

a great challenge, but mind

3:53

opening experience as well.

3:58

That's great!

3:59

I'm lost again.

4:00

You're like, I don't know. That's what I have to say about me. Yeah. Oh, so

4:02

that's great. Well, you know, we

4:08

are excited for one, I thank you

4:08

for your willingness to kind of

4:12

show up, have these

4:12

conversations with us, be

4:15

authentic and vulnerable and

4:15

yeah, tapping into your lived

4:18

experience, as well as your

4:18

professional expertise, I think

4:20

is gonna be so valuable as we

4:20

talk through some of these

4:24

concepts. And even as we were

4:24

kind of getting to know each

4:26

other a little more and walking

4:26

through this episode together,

4:28

some of the things that you

4:28

reminded me, like, Wait, what

4:31

are you talking about, lady?

4:31

It's always good for me to have

4:34

like, Hey, I'm geeky about this

4:34

stuff. And sometimes that means

4:38

I don't want to get caught up in

4:38

it. Right. I want to be able to

4:40

share it with people in a

4:40

meaningful way. So I'm also

4:42

excited for you to be like, Hey,

4:42

hold on, you're losing literally

4:46

everybody.

4:48

So like I need it simplified.

4:50

Yes,

4:50

translate, Mackenzie, translate.

4:52

So excited to have you here.

4:52

Well, as I started to share,

4:57

this podcast season is about

4:57

parenting through challenges.

5:00

And so you know, coordinating, like we've said, your lived experience and your professional

5:02

expertise, you're gonna be here

5:04

teaching us all season long

5:04

through these episodes. And for

5:08

listeners who have I mean,

5:08

seasoned listeners, which I kind

5:12

of love that pun of like, yeah, you've listened to a lot of seasons. But for our listeners

5:14

who've been around for a while,

5:17

you might remember season six,

5:17

we talked about resilience. And

5:20

so there's going to be some

5:20

similarities. But we're really

5:23

kind of taking a different spin.

5:23

Instead of just thinking about

5:25

resilience, we're thinking about

5:25

the practicalities of parenting

5:29

when there's challenges and

5:29

barriers. And so that's what

5:32

we're going to dig into. But as

5:32

you've heard on every season, we

5:35

will be talking about research

5:35

and reality. Each episode is

5:38

going to include practical

5:38

strategies for parenting through

5:41

whatever challenges we're

5:41

talking about. And it's been a

5:45

long time since we've walked

5:45

through some more beliefs and

5:47

values. And so what better time

5:47

then when we bring on a new

5:50

co-host? So, Courtney, you heard

5:50

me say it earlier, but I'm going

5:53

to tell everybody again. At the

5:53

Science of Parenting, we believe

5:57

that there is no place for shame

5:57

or blame on someone else's

6:02

reality. I've gotten the sense

6:02

from almost every conversation

6:06

we've ever had that that aligns

6:06

with your beliefs as well.

6:09

Absolutely.

6:10

We also believe that parents are experts on their kids. You know your

6:12

child in a way that another, I

6:16

might be a quote unquote,

6:16

parenting expert, but I don't

6:18

know your child the way you do.

6:18

So you're an expert on your own

6:21

kids. We believe that all

6:21

parents deserve access to

6:25

trustworthy information, so that

6:25

they can make decisions about

6:28

their family. And then we also

6:28

believe there's more than one

6:32

way to raise great kids. So my

6:32

approach to doing something and

6:35

your approach to doing something

6:35

can look different, and they can

6:38

both be great. So we're gonna

6:38

keep these in mind throughout

6:42

this season. But for now, we get

6:42

to kind of dive in. Yeah, yeah.

6:46

So we're gonna be talking about

6:46

resilience, similar, like I

6:50

said, to season six. But even

6:50

before we get there, as we think

6:53

about this theme of parenting

6:53

through challenges, you and I

6:56

started to have this conversation about cycle breaking. And I feel like that's

6:58

a really important place for us

7:00

to start. And so, you know, you

7:00

shared a little about your

7:04

experience and the way that you

7:04

were raised. And research tells

7:08

us that the way we were raised

7:08

is like one of the biggest

7:11

influences on how we parent our

7:11

own kids. And I think it's

7:14

important for us to acknowledge

7:14

that for some of us, some people

7:17

are intentionally replicating

7:17

the way they were raised, right?

7:20

Like, I have a great

7:20

relationship with my parents, or

7:22

I really enjoyed my childhood,

7:22

or whatever. And then they're

7:24

doing what they saw. So they

7:24

have X number of years of what

7:28

was modeled for them. And then

7:28

for others, that's like the

7:31

opposite experience, right? I

7:31

have this experience that I'm

7:34

trying to unlearn to do new

7:34

things. And so I don't know,

7:37

what do you think about this

7:37

concept of cycle breaking and

7:40

its role in parenting through challenges.

7:43

I think it's

7:43

very important to recognize

7:47

toxic and unhealthy cycles, even

7:47

though you've been taught them

7:50

or believe in them. Some things

7:50

just aren't healthy. Living

7:57

being taking into consideration

7:57

where you were raised, how you

8:01

were raised, and why you were

8:01

raised like that is a huge

8:04

component. I feel like it's

8:04

important too. I was kind of a

8:08

difficult child so my

8:08

grandparents who raised me, you

8:11

know, had to parent me, you

8:11

know, accordingly. I didn't like

8:15

it. They were also very simple

8:15

farm people. You know, we did

8:21

our chores, we had these clean

8:21

cut and dried rules, and I just

8:27

wouldn't conform. A lot of

8:27

abandonment issues, a lot of,

8:31

you know, things that I didn't

8:31

agree with and I couldn't

8:34

conform to or follow suit. And

8:34

it caused and wreaked a lot of

8:37

havoc in my life. Not being able

8:37

to express ourselves, you know,

8:41

down to using what kind of soap

8:41

do we want to use. We had to use

8:45

bar soap, I hate bar soap. Yeah,

8:45

you know, just little things

8:49

like that. You know what, if I

8:49

wanted my fan on, we had to ask

8:53

permission to have a fan on, you

8:53

know. Just little things like

8:55

that. So I think recognizing

8:55

those cycles and what they did,

8:59

to not put your kids through

8:59

that. They do have an opinion,

9:03

kids do have a right to feel

9:03

what they feel. Unfortunately,

9:07

you know, I'm or fortunate or

9:07

unfortunate. Yeah, I can

9:12

recognize that and I know how

9:12

uncomfortable and how limiting

9:16

it was for me so I try not to

9:16

parent my kids like that. I try

9:18

to break those cycles daily.

9:18

Mackenzie talked, you know,

9:22

prior to this about food and

9:22

just the privilege of having

9:27

food. Yes, it's expensive. Yes,

9:27

it's kind of like you know, one

9:30

of those things like you have to

9:30

have it, but if my kid's hungry,

9:35

she's hungry. She's a growing

9:35

teenager. My grandma who I live

9:38

with is not like that.

9:41

She has a different mindset.

9:43

Breakfast is

9:43

here, lunch is here, maybe a

9:46

snack and then a full course

9:46

dinner. No, we snack, we're

9:52

snackers you know, breaking

9:52

those cycles of making sure that

9:57

my kids feel comfortable and

9:57

aren't afraid to eat or want to

10:01

hide from eating or hide their

10:01

expression of themselves. Yes.

10:06

You know, I try to break those

10:06

cycles that way, building

10:11

resiliency is more possible and

10:11

easier, you know, to cope and to

10:18

be able to feel comfortable in this life.

10:21

On a lot of

10:21

what I hear you saying, I feel

10:23

like my parenting educator

10:23

brain, right, the terminology

10:27

that comes to mind to me is I

10:27

really hear you breaking cycles

10:29

around rigidity. Right. So that

10:29

this is the only way, this is

10:34

how it has to be, right? And I

10:34

can even say, there are probably

10:37

some areas in my life as a

10:37

parent where I am rigid. Yeah,

10:40

and right, that you're really

10:40

working hard to be intentional

10:44

about your responsiveness and

10:44

flexibility. So breaking that

10:48

cycle around rigidity. And I

10:48

think about the way I was

10:55

raised, there are components of

10:55

it that I'm like, yes, you know

10:58

what, I liked that, or I think

10:58

that's valuable and I want to do

11:02

the same thing with my kids. And

11:02

there are aspects that I'm like,

11:04

I don't want to do the same

11:04

thing. I want to do this a

11:07

different way. And so I think

11:07

just acknowledging a few things.

11:12

One, every parent is starting at

11:12

a different baseline. Right? So

11:17

if I'm starting at a place where

11:17

most of my childhood is what I

11:21

want to replicate for my own

11:21

children, there are advantages

11:26

to that in that the energy it

11:26

takes is less because it's what

11:32

you already know. It's what you've been taught your whole life. Yeah, right, versus the

11:33

time or energy it takes for

11:36

someone who's like, the way I

11:36

was raised was incredibly

11:39

harmful and I don't want to do

11:39

that to my kids. That takes a

11:42

lot of energy and attention and

11:42

intention, right, and a lot of

11:48

reflection, and honestly,

11:48

sometimes pain to do that.

11:52

I have to

11:52

check my intentions and my

11:56

intent every time I go to speak

11:56

to my children, mostly because I

12:01

have completely from scratch

12:01

started over multiple times. And

12:06

they're so different in age that

12:06

you have, and I'm a different

12:09

person, you know. So I have to

12:09

check myself real thoroughly

12:15

before I go through with a big

12:15

decision or a big change. And I

12:19

have to prioritize what cycle

12:19

I'm gonna break because I can't

12:22

break all of them. That's an

12:22

unreal expectation. So like, if

12:27

Lexi say, she's gonna be 13 on

12:27

Friday, if she has a chore to

12:31

take out the garbage every

12:31

Thursday, and she misses it, I'm

12:34

not going to take anything from

12:34

her. My grandma and grandpa, on

12:37

the other hand, if we miss that,

12:37

we would be punished by having,

12:42

you know, something pulled from

12:42

us. And I was like, you know, I

12:45

was just busy out playing, I was

12:45

tired, I was at my friend's

12:48

house. Just those little things

12:48

like that, I have to make sure

12:53

when I do that I'm checking

12:53

fully what the effects are of

12:58

that and if it's the right time.

13:00

Yes, and you

13:00

know, we talk in other episodes

13:04

about natural and logical

13:04

consequences, but also about

13:07

grace, right, and how you

13:07

balance all those things

13:10

together. And what I hear you

13:10

talking about with checking your

13:14

intention, I think it's such a

13:14

valuable skill for us as

13:17

parents, especially parents who

13:17

are doing some cycle breaking of

13:20

the way I was raised. I'm trying

13:20

to unlearn this component, even

13:23

if it's not in its entirety. But

13:23

like this part, this particular

13:27

cycle, checking your intention

13:27

because what might be, there's a

13:33

lot of research to tell us, what

13:33

is innate to our brain is likely

13:37

the way we were raised, even if

13:37

we didn't like it. Yeah, so my

13:40

brain will revert to that

13:40

without thought. It's just like

13:46

the instinct is to go there even

13:46

if that's not what I actually

13:50

want to do. But our brains will

13:50

revert to that and that

13:53

intention check is so valuable.

13:56

And its

13:56

necessity so like if you're

13:59

getting ready to do something

13:59

that you know is going to create

14:01

big change in your family. I'm a

14:01

single mom, so I have to be able

14:05

to fully support that cycle. I

14:05

can't just start it today and be

14:10

like well, you know, like I

14:10

changed my mind. Yeah, like you

14:16

have to be committed to it and

14:16

like I said, commitment doesn't

14:18

look perfect and it's not but as

14:18

long as you keep consistent and

14:22

that's what I found works best

14:22

for my children. Liam, on the

14:24

other hand, he's a crazy two

14:24

year old so consistency is

14:27

really hard for him, for me,

14:27

too. But he and Lexi, we're

14:30

building our trust back. They

14:30

just think I should have had but

14:36

I didn't. I had zero trust in my

14:36

parents. Yes. So I know how easy

14:41

it is to lose and how hard it is

14:41

to get back. So consistency with

14:44

Lexi, even if it's like little

14:44

things like hey, scrape your

14:47

plate and rinse it off. I don't

14:47

care if you put it in the

14:49

dishwasher. I'll do it later.

14:49

Let's just make sure we're

14:51

rinsing off, little things.

14:53

And finding

14:53

out what that is for you. Right?

14:55

Like identifying, these are the

14:55

consistency. These are the

14:58

expectations. And yeah, maybe

14:58

mine is you have to put in the

15:02

dishwasher. At our house right

15:02

now, our kids are three and six

15:06

and so our expectation is you

15:06

have to take it to the counter.

15:08

Yeah. And then like, they need

15:08

to be the same thing. It needs

15:12

to be ideally, like, consistent

15:12

across time. And I think that's

15:16

important. So thank you for

15:16

walking through that with us.

15:19

And I think this idea, I want us

15:19

to start out this whole season

15:23

thinking about as our listeners

15:23

reflect, where is my baseline?

15:29

And not comparison to like, am I

15:29

doing better or worse than other

15:33

people? But comparison, not even

15:33

comparison, I don't know, I

15:36

don't have a better word. But

15:36

comparison for empathy. Right?

15:39

If I look at another parent

15:39

maybe I might be tempted be

15:43

like, oh, they don't have it

15:43

together or whatever that like

15:46

negative thought or judgment

15:46

might be. But that remember, I

15:50

don't know their baseline,

15:50

right? Their baseline may be

15:52

totally different from mine. And

15:52

their progress is huge. And that

15:58

this one little piece of the

15:58

puzzle I'm seeing isn't the

16:00

whole thing. So as we think

16:00

about this episode is really

16:04

about raising resilience is kind

16:04

of what we're talking about. And

16:07

so how do we raise resilient

16:07

kids? How do we be resilient

16:10

parents? How do we have

16:10

resilient families? And so that

16:13

cycle breaking and this idea of

16:13

just because it's how my parents

16:18

did it, it doesn't mean it's how

16:18

I have to do it. That takes a

16:22

lot of energy. And so as we

16:22

think about resilience and our

16:24

coping skills we build, that all

16:24

comes into it. So Courtney gave

16:29

us a little sneak peek of, you know, she used the word resilience earlier. Everybody

16:31

knows that listens a lot that I

16:36

like a definition. So the Child

16:36

Traumatic Stress Network defines

16:41

family resilience as a family's

16:41

ability to maintain or resume

16:46

effective functioning, including

16:46

care of its members, following

16:50

potentially traumatic events. So

16:50

that's like the formal

16:53

terminology. In other words, how

16:53

a family can bounce forward or

16:58

rise from the ashes or whatever,

16:58

after experiencing something

17:02

difficult. So Courtney and I

17:02

also had a really great

17:05

conversation around is

17:05

resilience a personal trait or

17:09

is it something that's

17:09

buildable? So Courtney, what

17:12

would you say? Is resilience a

17:12

personal trait?

17:16

No, not after

17:16

learning from you. It's not. But

17:22

it was something I was taught,

17:22

you know, it was something that

17:25

like, it's that old school way

17:25

of thinking like you either have

17:28

it or you don't. And if you

17:28

don't have it, then here's what

17:30

your path looks like. And mind

17:30

you my path has been super

17:33

rocky, but I have appreciated

17:33

every pebble I've stepped on, if

17:37

that makes sense. So I'm still

17:37

open minded. I'm still

17:42

teachable. And I appreciate the

17:42

definition now.

17:45

Yeah, we were

17:45

talking about, well, Courtney,

17:48

kind of the way I mean, if I can

17:48

share it, we were talking about

17:51

resilience. And you're like,

17:51

well, I mean, maybe my siblings

17:54

were a little more resilient. Or

17:54

maybe, you know, my daughter's

17:56

more resilient. You're kind of

17:56

talking about, I wasn't. I had

17:59

these hard things happened and I

17:59

respond in these ways that maybe

18:02

weren't so positive. And we kind

18:02

of just had to like, wait, hold

18:06

on. I'm like, I gotta be the

18:06

educator for a second. But for

18:10

listeners, too in case this is

18:10

the first time you're hearing

18:12

it. Like Courtney said,

18:12

sometimes we think about you

18:15

either are resilient, or you

18:15

aren't. And there's actually a

18:19

lot of research to tell us,

18:19

resilience is not a trait. It's

18:22

not you have it or you don't.

18:22

Resilience is buildable. It's a

18:27

set of skills and factors that

18:27

we can build on and come to,

18:32

it's not fixed. It's not have it

18:32

or don't. And so, thinking about

18:37

that definition of like, how a

18:37

family as a family resilience,

18:41

right, how our family has it.

18:41

But even individual resilience,

18:44

how we kind of resume effective

18:44

functioning. How do we move

18:49

forward after something

18:49

difficult? Okay, so something

18:53

for us to think about too, as we

18:53

think about this idea of

18:56

resilience, is how have we been

18:56

resilient as individuals? And I

19:03

mean, I can see so many

19:03

resilient things in even just

19:05

the conversations we've had,

19:05

traits, they're not traits. It's

19:08

not a trait; it's experiences

19:08

where you've demonstrated that

19:11

you're building your resilience.

19:11

But I guess from my personal

19:14

experience, I was actually

19:14

diagnosed with ADHD last year.

19:19

And so I think of the skills

19:19

that I've learned for parenting

19:24

with ADHD. You know, people

19:24

who've been listening for a long

19:28

time will know that I've often

19:28

talked about how I get

19:31

overstimulated as a parent, and

19:31

how, you know, that I often feel

19:36

like I'm just a mess. And I

19:36

found out a lot of those things

19:39

are associated with ADHD. And so

19:39

learning what are my new

19:44

boundaries? What do I need to

19:44

develop for coping skills? And I

19:49

still feel like I have a long

19:49

way to go, but I want I want to

19:52

pause in this moment and be

19:52

like, I'm being resilient,

19:55

right? I'm being resilient and

19:55

I'm learning these new skills.

19:59

I'm being resilient. And that we

19:59

keep going, like we keep doing

20:03

the daily stuff we've got to do

20:03

while struggling, while I

20:06

struggle and muddle through some

20:06

of this. And that in itself is

20:10

practicing resilience. You know,

20:10

you talked earlier, I can't

20:14

remember if it was while we've

20:14

been recording or just in

20:16

conversations we've had, but how

20:16

you were raised in that it was

20:20

challenging for you. And then,

20:20

but like, look at you now,

20:23

right? Like, that's resilient.

20:23

Yeah. So what would you say how

20:26

you've seen yourself be resilient?

20:28

So I think

20:28

hearing your side and then

20:32

reflecting back to like, not

20:32

still thinking that old way of

20:35

thinking. So I think moving out

20:35

when I was 16 was building

20:38

resilience. I think experiencing

20:38

the world at my own pace and

20:42

getting the taste of what life

20:42

meant to me. Even being a young

20:47

mom was building resilience,

20:47

because that was a chance for me

20:50

to foster something that I had

20:50

never had. I didn't have much

20:53

control, but I was still my own.

20:53

I think being an active

20:57

addiction and being where I'm at

20:57

today was a huge key point in my

21:02

life to build resilience. I had

21:02

a lot of resentments towards my

21:05

mom. So now I had a taste

21:05

firsthand of what that meant.

21:10

And I'm now three and a half

21:10

years clean. I help everybody I

21:14

can. I am a very aware, very

21:14

aware person. I can identify a

21:20

lot of things that were toxic,

21:20

and led to a lot of my unhealthy

21:26

boundaries and relationships to

21:26

now I can be like, oh, that was

21:30

that resilience piece. And

21:30

because now I can control what I

21:35

allow and what I don't allow. So

21:35

I think my whole life has been

21:39

about building resilience. But

21:39

the definition I was taught was

21:43

something I never thought I had.

21:46

Well, I'm so

21:46

glad. I hope that you can

21:48

continue to change that

21:48

narrative for yourself of like,

21:51

holy cow, look at me and look

21:51

how resilient I've been. And

21:56

you're talking about being a

21:56

person in long term recovery and

22:00

the resilience of now being in a

22:00

professional role where you're

22:05

showing up and caring for people

22:05

who are in recovery, whether

22:08

long term or new to recovery

22:08

from substance use disorder, and

22:12

how powerful that is that you

22:12

make meaning of this difficult

22:16

thing that you went through. And

22:16

you talked about that you went

22:20

through as a parent, right? And

22:20

so there's all those things that

22:24

build into it. So yes, I see a

22:24

lot of ways where you have built

22:27

and continue to build resilience

22:27

in that. So that's exciting. So

22:31

one way that we sometimes talk

22:31

about resilience is this idea of

22:34

risk and protective factors. We

22:34

have like a whole episode on it

22:38

it back in season six. But

22:38

basically risk factors are, like

22:43

traits or things in your

22:43

surroundings that maybe create

22:46

risk for more negative outcomes,

22:46

while protective factors are the

22:49

opposite. So when we can build

22:49

protective factors, which is

22:53

what we really like to talk

22:53

about, sometimes you can't

22:55

control a risk factor. But if we

22:55

can find protective factors we

23:00

can build, so things that are

23:00

going to help our kids become

23:03

more resilient. How do we

23:03

increase them? So in a textbook,

23:07

literally called The Handbook of

23:07

Parenting, which I think is so

23:10

funny. People are like, there's

23:10

no handbook. I'm like, actually

23:12

there is, but it's not written

23:12

for everybody. It's like a

23:15

researcher. So I'm going to try

23:15

to translate it from the

23:19

handbook. But according to a

23:19

chapter, the authors are Matson

23:24

and Palmer, of that chapter in

23:24

the book Handbook of Parenting,

23:27

but they talk about what we do

23:27

as parents that can help build

23:32

resilience that are protective

23:32

factors. So they talk about

23:35

three things that allow or

23:35

encourage our kids to positively

23:40

adapt to adversity or

23:40

challenges. So here's the three

23:42

things, sensitivity and warmth,

23:42

so when as parents we can

23:46

practice that, monitoring, and

23:46

then consistent discipline. So I

23:51

actually want, we can walk

23:51

through the three of these. I'll

23:54

explain them with a little more

23:54

depth. But as we do that, I'd

23:56

love for us to just kind of have

23:56

a conversation about like, where

23:59

we feel like we're doing well,

23:59

or components of it we're doing

24:02

well, or components of it we're

24:02

continuing to build on. So the

24:05

first one being sensitivity and

24:05

warmth. As examples, this could

24:10

be positive connection time with

24:10

our kids. So it could be

24:14

physical touch. It could be

24:14

playing games together. It could

24:17

be watching a show. It can be

24:17

any kind of positive connection

24:21

with them. It might be

24:21

playfulness. And these are

24:24

examples, right? This is not the

24:24

way to do sensitivity and

24:27

warmth. These are examples. But

24:27

it could be playfulness. It

24:30

could be just being there for

24:30

them when they're having a hard

24:33

time. It might be being

24:33

attentive to their physical and

24:36

emotional needs. So this kind of

24:36

warmth that our kids feel. I

24:41

mean, I think of like coziness

24:41

as the warmth, right? That our

24:43

kids feel like they're safe.

24:43

Their safety with us is an

24:47

important part of sensitivity

24:47

and warmth. So yeah, what do you

24:50

think about that as we do that

24:50

as parents?

24:53

So like I

24:53

said, I have two kids who are

24:55

two completely different humans

24:55

and ages so my warmth and

24:59

sensitivity is very fluid. I

24:59

don't have one way to show

25:04

because what I would do for my

25:04

13 year old, who I'm rebuilding

25:08

a parent child relationship

25:08

with, is different than what I

25:11

would do to my two year old

25:11

who's never had a taste of any

25:15

kind of mom under the influence.

25:15

So, for the most part, my whole

25:23

sensitivity and warmth process

25:23

is just to provide a safe space.

25:27

My kids, Liam, too, he has

25:27

already been through a lot. And

25:31

that's because he lost his dad,

25:31

that's something I'm gonna have

25:33

to grow up and be sensitive to

25:33

his whole life and have to, you

25:37

know, really provide that space

25:37

for him and hold a space, you

25:40

know, that's important not just

25:40

to provide but to hold. And then

25:43

Alexis, you know, I don't always

25:43

deserve her emotional and

25:48

physical presence, and I'm okay

25:48

with that. She has a boundary.

25:53

You know, sometimes she doesn't

25:53

want to talk to me about some

25:56

things and I don't push her and

25:56

I don't badger her either. I'm

25:59

like, okay, you know what, I

25:59

understand. This is a boundary

26:03

and it's okay. And I also let

26:03

her know that no is a complete

26:07

sentence. For everybody.

26:07

Grandma, moms, aunts, school

26:12

teachers, other kids, your

26:12

brother, me? You can say no, and

26:16

that is 100% okay. I might not

26:16

like it. But I will not push the

26:21

boundaries. You know, that's

26:21

kind of where I get my

26:24

sensitivity. And I do like to

26:24

play. You know, I'm learning. My

26:29

brain is still processing a lot

26:29

of things coming from active

26:33

addiction. A lot of experiences

26:33

I've had to unlearn, breaking

26:36

cycles. What I would do with

26:36

Lexi at two years old, when I

26:40

was 19, 18, is 100% different

26:40

than what I'm doing with Liam at

26:45

30, 31. You know, I'm a whole

26:45

different human. I'm not that

26:48

immature child raising a child.

26:48

I'm not, you know, I'm a more

26:52

responsible, I'm a more very

26:52

productive human, I wouldn't

26:55

just go to college and raise

26:55

kids. So, it's very difficult

27:01

for me to have experience, what

27:01

I've been taught, and then

27:05

what's going to work for me in

27:05

the future, and kind of really

27:08

just taking it all in and I take

27:08

it day by day.

27:11

Yeah. And

27:11

you've kind of alluded to this.

27:13

So I mean, since we're kind of

27:13

talking about it, so you were an

27:17

active addiction for part of

27:17

your daughter's life, right? And

27:22

so then now you're in recovery,

27:22

no longer using substances,

27:26

which is so exciting, and

27:26

congratulations, and all of the

27:29

wonderful things. And so we are

27:29

going to talk about this later

27:33

in the season, strategies for

27:33

rebuilding and repairing

27:36

relationships with our kids. So

27:36

you're kind of hinting, you're

27:39

like giving us all these little

27:39

tidbits along the way until we

27:42

get to that season or that

27:42

episode, which is great. And

27:46

that you are in a unique spot,

27:46

right? We're talking about

27:49

baselines, right? And so yes,

27:49

you have a 13 year old and

27:52

you're in a unique spot, that

27:52

it's not like, yes, we have 13

27:55

years of this where I've been

27:55

building the sensitivity and

27:57

warmth, right? You're rebuilding

27:57

in a different way from scratch.

28:02

Yeah. And your cycle breaking on

28:02

top of it related to that. And

28:05

so thank you for sharing that

28:05

with us, you know, and being

28:09

honest and vulnerable about it.

28:09

And so, you know, as I think

28:13

about my sensitivity and warmth,

28:13

and how I provide that for my

28:17

kids, I'll even say like between

28:17

my co-parent and I, right? So my

28:20

husband, my temperament, like my

28:20

innate I'm a little more silly

28:25

than he is naturally. And so I

28:25

would say my playfulness is

28:29

probably a little more silliness

28:29

from time to time. And then

28:32

there are times when I have no

28:32

silly to offer, right? So it's

28:36

not about like, I'm always warm

28:36

or I'm always sensitive. But I

28:41

would say one of my strengths is

28:41

probably the playfulness and

28:44

silliness at times. And that one

28:44

of my other strengths, I feel I

28:51

work really hard to hold

28:51

emotional space for my kids,

28:56

right? Like you were talking

28:56

about accepting, like, you're

28:58

mad about this or whatever. And

28:58

again, that's not an always,

29:03

it's not a perfection. It's a

29:03

progress. It's a journey. But

29:06

those are kind of strengths that

29:06

I'd say I have. And that when it

29:10

comes to sensitivity and warmth,

29:10

I would say it's hard for me to

29:14

be sensitive to their emotional

29:14

needs when I'm like

29:17

overstimulated overwhelmed.

29:17

Like, you are freaking out about

29:21

this tiny thing and I have this

29:21

huge other thing in my brain.

29:25

Right, and like that's hard.

29:25

That's an area I continue to

29:27

work on for improvement.

29:29

And Lexie,

29:29

like I shared earlier that, you

29:32

know, because of her resilience,

29:32

and because of the way I have, I

29:38

don't want to say abandoned her,

29:38

but she had to grow up quick. So

29:42

she holds that space for me as a

29:42

child to a parent, you know. She

29:47

provides me a safe space. You

29:47

know, when I found out my son's

29:50

dad had overdosed and passed

29:50

away, I was like six months

29:55

clean. I had no idea how to feel

29:55

anything. Plus she just hugged

29:58

me, just hugged me. She didn't

29:58

get anything, nothing, because

30:02

she knew there was nothing. She

30:02

just held that safe space. And

30:05

if I'm in the store and things

30:05

kind of really working me up and

30:08

I'm overstimulated, craziness or

30:08

at Walmart and she sees beads of

30:12

sweat, she's like, mom, just

30:12

drop everything. We don't have

30:14

to do this. We can just go.

30:14

Walmart nothing. She's like,

30:19

leave. So she holds that spot

30:19

for me as a child. That's

30:27

something that I have

30:27

unknowingly given her. A 13, 12

30:33

year old to actually care about

30:33

somebody else's feelings and

30:36

save space. So it was kind of

30:36

like, you know, one of those

30:40

miracles where my mess up has

30:40

created something beautiful.

30:46

Literally.

30:46

Right, and so

30:46

to be able to build that

30:48

positive, you know, parent child

30:48

relationship, that there's space

30:52

for both of you to feel things.

30:52

Right. And so that relationship

30:57

and emotional warmth, I think is

30:57

a big part of it, but also

30:59

physical needs, right? That

30:59

we're sensitive and aware of

31:02

those two. So, alright, number

31:02

two on that list was monitoring.

31:07

So this is really the idea of

31:07

knowing where our kids are, what

31:10

they're up to. It's also about

31:10

creating environments that are

31:13

safe for our kids. And that can

31:13

be from baby proofing a safe

31:18

environment to trying to create

31:18

spaces in our home where they're

31:24

physically not in danger. And so

31:24

I think of domestic violence

31:29

situations, right? How do you

31:29

create safety and things like

31:32

that. So that can be part of

31:32

monitoring. It can also be

31:35

things like knowing what our

31:35

kids are up to online, or where

31:39

they spend their time, what

31:39

friend's house, other places

31:42

besides home. And so monitoring,

31:42

we often think about it, or I

31:46

should say, as a parenting

31:46

educator, we often talk about it

31:48

with teens, like what's your

31:48

teen doing? What are they up to?

31:51

And that's valuable, right?

31:51

That's one of the ways we help

31:53

make resilient teens that we are

31:53

still monitoring them. But we're

31:58

not saying like, you need to do

31:58

X, as much as we're saying,

32:02

finding a way of monitoring that

32:02

does keep our kids safe, that we

32:07

do kind of know what's going on.

32:07

We're not telling you which

32:09

things you need to know, where

32:09

you need to know, all that. But

32:13

monitoring looks so different. You actually got to this earlier, so your kids are like

32:15

13 and two, right? And you're

32:18

talking about, well, it's

32:18

different. It's so different

32:21

between the two of them, like

32:21

yes, because they're different

32:23

ages. Monitoring a toddler is so

32:23

different than monitoring a

32:27

preteen.

32:28

Yeah. Yeah. So

32:28

and you know, our age and the

32:32

way our society really is right

32:32

now, you have to be able to

32:35

provide a safe space on the

32:35

internet. Yes.

32:38

It's part of

32:38

parenting now.

32:41

I don't push

32:41

her. Her phone is kind of like

32:44

her diary. She logs a lot of

32:44

stuff in there. She has a lot of

32:48

feelings in there. And if she's

32:48

talking about me to one of her

32:51

friends, why would I invade that

32:51

space? Again, we're were

32:57

starting out friends, there's a

32:57

lot, a lot of repair there. For

33:02

the most part, it's going really

33:02

well. But some days, I'm just

33:04

not gonna go and explore your

33:04

phone. But as long as you have

33:07

Snapchat, I have access to your

33:07

lock code. I can see where her

33:13

location is. And sometimes, you

33:13

know, she doesn't have phone

33:17

time all the time. It's when I

33:17

can afford it or you know,

33:20

because our money is

33:20

prioritized. You know, but I do

33:24

have access to her phone. If I

33:24

need to use it, I use it. It's

33:26

the same lock code as mine. But

33:26

I don't want to be a helicopter

33:30

parent either. That was one

33:30

thing that really drove me away

33:34

from my grandma and grandpa was

33:34

the constant monitoring. I'm

33:37

like, oh my goodness, I'm

33:37

outside playing, you know, I'm

33:40

30, she

33:40

has to come inside. And if she's

33:47

not, she hasn't called me or

33:47

hasn't answered my phone, then I

33:50

start worrying but it's rarely

33:50

ever happens. Yeah. Liam, on the

33:54

other hand, I monitor him too

33:54

much. Very obsessive, very

34:01

anxiety-driven monitoring and

34:01

I'm working on it. I'm going to

34:04

therapy for it. I think it's

34:04

because his life I've seen his

34:09

dad go so fast. There was no

34:09

warning and I have PTSD from

34:13

getting my children ripped from

34:13

DHS. I have a lot of issues. So

34:17

for him, I have to give myself a

34:17

boundary like hey, Courtney,

34:21

it's okay to go shower for five

34:21

minutes without him. It's okay

34:25

to leave him in front of the TV

34:25

while you go outside and cool

34:29

down. So like I said, completely

34:29

different. Some I don't want to

34:33

invade. Others I invade too much

34:33

and I have to remind myself that

34:36

that's unhealthy. Does that make

34:36

any sense?

34:40

Oh, it totally does. It totally does. Well, and honestly I hear a lot

34:42

you're talking about where you

34:46

have found your balance, right?

34:46

That these are the ways that I

34:50

monitor or these feel like

34:50

they're in alignment with my

34:52

values, right? Like the values

34:52

that I have and that it's okay

34:56

if my values and your values are

34:56

the same or different. But that

35:00

you're finding a way that's in

35:00

line with yours. And I also like

35:03

this idea of even within the

35:03

same family, you're the same

35:08

parent but for two different

35:08

kids, it's two different things.

35:11

You know, and I think that of my

35:11

daughter's temperament. Because

35:17

of just who she is, is

35:17

different. So I monitor her

35:21

differently than I monitored my

35:21

son at the age he is just

35:24

because of one of them was a

35:24

little quicker to take risks,

35:28

and one of them is a little

35:28

slower to take risk. And so it's

35:31

about kind of being agile to the

35:31

child. But that this is

35:35

something, monitoring is

35:35

something we can do in whatever

35:37

form that is in alignment with

35:37

our values and helpful to our

35:42

kids to help keep them safe.

35:42

Right. And then the third one is

35:45

consistent discipline. And

35:45

people who've listened to the

35:49

podcast for a long time know

35:49

that we use this word consistent

35:52

a lot, it comes up a lot. I want

35:52

to reiterate that it is not

35:56

about perfection, consistent is

35:56

about most of the time. All

36:00

right. So over time, think of

36:00

the lifelong parenting journey

36:03

you have. Or even think about a

36:03

month, don't think about this

36:08

day, right? Think about over a

36:08

month, in general, that was the

36:12

consistency. So sometimes we

36:12

think about discipline

36:15

exclusively as punishment or

36:15

responding to bad behavior. But

36:19

it can also be about the ways

36:19

that discipline is proactive in

36:24

that it can be how we build the

36:24

positive relationships with our

36:27

kids, how we're clear about

36:27

expectations on the front end,

36:30

right? You were really saying

36:30

you're really clear about the

36:33

time you need to be home is

36:33

8:30. Right? And that's a clear

36:36

expectation. That's discipline.

36:36

And so figuring out what those

36:40

things are, how we teach them

36:40

expectations, how we praise them

36:44

for behavior we like, even

36:44

between my kids, right? They

36:48

sometimes get in little spats

36:48

like, I really liked how you

36:50

walked away when you got upset.

36:50

That's discipline. But it's also

36:55

the I'm not going to let you hit

36:55

your brother. That's also

36:57

discipline. So the consistency

36:57

is about really providing our

37:01

kids with some predictability

37:01

over time. So as I think about

37:07

consistent discipline, I feel

37:07

like consistency is a thing

37:10

that's hard for me. I think part

37:10

of it is parenting with ADHD,

37:15

but also just the ebbs and flows

37:15

of different parenting stages

37:18

and your life and all those

37:18

things. But I would say, I work

37:24

really hard to provide clear

37:24

expectations. And I think that's

37:27

something that's a strength for

37:27

me, even though it's not

37:30

perfect, right. But I do think

37:30

in general, that's probably

37:33

consistent that my kids do know

37:33

what I expect on a given thing.

37:37

What would you feel like is a strength for you?

37:39

Oh.

37:40

You've got

37:40

some, I know you do.

37:45

So I think my

37:45

strength when it comes to

37:48

consistent discipline, and I

37:48

like that you explained what

37:51

discipline means. Because a lot of people are like, oh, I don't spank my kids. Like, that's not

37:53

even at all what I think when I

37:56

think of discipline. I think of

37:56

setting expectations,

38:00

boundaries, you know. The whole

38:00

thing about hey, you know you

38:06

30.

38:06

If not, you know I'm gonna come

38:08

looking for you.

38:11

Well, the

38:11

natural and logical consequences

38:14

that can go with those things

38:14

like that is consistent

38:17

discipline. Yeah. And I'll do

38:17

what I say I'm gonna do.

38:20

Yep. And my Lexie

38:20

knows that, first of all,

38:23

because I'm just that very open

38:23

person. But with Liam, I have a

38:27

consistent discipline, like you

38:27

will sit at the table. You will

38:30

eat, you don't have to finish

38:30

it. But when we're all here

38:36

eating, Liam, that's my one time

38:36

to eat and not chase you so I

38:41

would appreciate it if you sat

38:41

here quietly and just let me

38:47

eat. You know, so I have

38:47

consistent things. That's one of

38:50

my strengths is that we do eat

38:50

as a family. Yeah, that's one

38:53

thing I have rolled over from

38:53

watching my grandma and grandpa

38:57

parent me. We love eating as a

38:57

family. We don't do a whole lot

39:01

of phones at the table. You

39:01

know, I can be very

39:05

disassociated sometimes myself

39:05

just being me. And I know that

39:10

we have to not do that. So

39:10

phones at the table. Liam not

39:13

watching videos. We shut the TV

39:13

off and we eat as a family.

39:16

That's one of my strengths.

39:16

Another thing is letting Alexis

39:21

know that consistency looks

39:21

different depending on what's

39:28

going on in our family that day,

39:28

and letting her know that I'm

39:32

not treating Liam any more

39:32

different than I'm treating you.

39:35

He's just two. Why did he get

39:35

this instead of this for supper?

39:41

Or why did he get a toy at

39:41

Walmart? It's just for mom. It's

39:45

not because he's doing anything

39:45

great. It's not any unfair.

39:50

There's no unfairness here. It's

39:50

just the age. I think that's one

39:53

of my strengths, too, is being

39:53

able to tell her and explain in

39:57

a healthy way.

39:58

Yes, you know

39:58

it is hard with siblings, right?

40:02

The comparison is like, oh, it's

40:02

huge. It's not fair. That's huge

40:06

in our house. But I think that

40:06

our ability to validate that

40:12

feeling behind it while holding

40:12

the like, well, this is

40:16

appropriate because your sibling

40:16

is a toddler, and you're not. We

40:21

often often talk about, I

40:21

actually borrowed this from a

40:23

co-worker of sometimes fair

40:23

isn't the same. No. Right. And

40:29

so creating that as a family

40:29

understanding and mantra, that's

40:34

a form of discipline.

40:36

Equitable. I

40:36

am a very equitable parent.

40:40

Yeah. But you wouldn't put Lexi

40:40

on a trike.

40:43

Right.

40:43

Because she's a preteen.

40:48

You know, and

40:48

so when I explained to her what

40:52

equitable meant, it really

40:52

triggered her to be like, oh,

40:58

okay. Well, Liam, you know, has

40:58

this and this, but it's because

41:02

he has to have that as a baby.

41:02

And that's kind of one of my

41:07

strengths is I think I'm a

41:07

consistent discipline person is,

41:10

you know, maintaining those

41:10

spots.

41:14

Yeah, that

41:14

makes sense. Absolutely. Yes, it

41:17

does. So, yeah. So we're really

41:17

digging in on resilience and

41:22

thinking specifically about our

41:22

parenting, right. And so we

41:25

talked about providing

41:25

sensitivity and warmth. We

41:28

talked about monitoring, and

41:28

then providing consistent

41:31

discipline. And so those are

41:31

three areas, the research tells

41:33

us, where we can help our kids

41:33

build, just doing those things,

41:38

is going to help build the

41:38

resilience. There are other

41:40

things we're going to talk about this season, where it's like, this is a specific strategy or

41:42

specific thing, but in general,

41:45

providing sensitivity and warmth

41:45

is going to help our kids be

41:48

resilient. Monitoring them is

41:48

going to help our kids be

41:51

resilient. Giving consistent

41:51

discipline over time, in

41:54

general, is going to help our

41:54

kids build resilience. And so we

41:58

want to think a lot about that

41:58

this season on resilience. And

42:01

then, as you may or may not

42:01

know, I don't know if I told you

42:05

this morning that we usually wrap up with some kind of strategy before we go all the

42:07

way to our closing. And so I

42:10

actually want to post something.

42:10

It's more of a mindset, a

42:14

reframe, a way of thinking, but

42:14

it is just a specific strategy.

42:18

But this is something from Dr.

42:18

Tina Payne Bryson. She is an

42:23

author and psychologist, I

42:23

believe, but is known for the

42:28

book, No Drama Discipline, as

42:28

well as The Power of Showing Up.

42:32

Really, really great parenting

42:32

books that I personally love.

42:35

But she has this little formula,

42:35

she talks about for creating

42:38

resilience. So adversity or like

42:38

challenges or trauma, okay,

42:44

that's the term she uses. So

42:44

adversity without support

42:49

creates fragility, right? That

42:49

we have fragile children. But

42:54

adversity with support creates

42:54

resilience. Love that, right. So

43:00

what is in the formula is the

43:00

same, right? The challenge

43:03

didn't go away. It's not like,

43:03

well, if we can just eliminate

43:06

any challenge that whatever

43:06

happened to our kids, that's not

43:09

necessarily what resilience is.

43:09

But that this happened and we

43:13

provided support for. We

43:13

supported our child, we helped

43:16

build their skills, we held

43:16

space, like you were talking

43:19

about. And that's what helped

43:19

create resilience. So as we

43:22

think about how to raise

43:22

resilient kids, in the midst of

43:26

challenges, at the baseline we

43:26

can support them. We can support

43:31

them through that hard time. And

43:31

so I actually just want to like,

43:35

okay, if that's our strategy is,

43:35

we're going to have support,

43:38

we're going to support our kids

43:38

when there's adversity and

43:41

challenges. So hey, what are we

43:41

going to do this week? So as a

43:46

parent, I want the two of us to

43:46

just say, how are we going to

43:49

support our kids this week? And

43:49

so I'm actually gonna go really

43:52

simple on that question. And

43:52

we're kind of in this

43:55

transitioning family stage right

43:55

now and just like transition

43:59

time of the year. One of the

43:59

ways I'm going to support my

44:02

kids, and sometimes, I should

44:02

say that challenges sometimes

44:06

with that transition can be hard

44:06

for my kids. So I'm going to

44:08

support them by letting them

44:08

know what's coming. Tomorrow we

44:12

have X or next week, we're

44:12

getting ready for this thing. So

44:17

one of the ways I want to

44:17

support my kids this week in

44:19

this transition that's kind of a

44:19

hard time is letting them know

44:22

what to expect and what's

44:22

coming. What about you? What's

44:26

one simple way you're going to

44:26

support your kids?

44:29

Again, I'm

44:29

just going to hold that safe

44:32

space. Not that my house is

44:32

unsafe, but my grandma does have

44:36

Alzheimer's. Sometimes it is

44:36

very difficult for my daughter

44:40

to accept it. The woman who

44:40

helped raise her is not the same

44:42

woman and says some kind of

44:42

hurtful things sometimes so I'm

44:46

just going to continue to hold

44:46

that safe space. She's at work

44:49

with me today. Yeah, having a

44:49

Lexi and mommy day while doing

44:55

what I do and love is kind of

44:55

that. And then with Liam, I'm

45:00

going to allow him to be more

45:00

expressive and not get so

45:06

overstimulated about it. That's

45:06

how I'll support that little

45:09

boy. And I have to remind myself

45:09

that I'm both parents. I'm not

45:13

just mom. So whether that's

45:13

going out and wrestling with

45:17

them in the yard, getting muddy,

45:17

making mud pies, letting him

45:20

express himself in some kind of

45:20

rough fashion, I will support

45:25

that this week.

45:26

Yeah, I love

45:26

that, holding space for however

45:29

he's showing up authentically. I

45:29

love that. Awesome. Well, this

45:34

brings us to something called

45:34

our Stop. Breathe. Talk. space.

45:36

Well, we're bringing in our

45:36

producer, Mackenzie DeJong. And

45:39

she asks us a question kind of

45:39

on the theme of the episode. So

45:43

what do you got for us today, Kenz?

45:45

All right.

45:45

Well, I will. I was just

45:49

listening to one of the older

45:49

episodes where I kind of feel

45:51

like I got a hard question to

45:51

Suzanne. I won't do that to you,

45:55

Courtney. I just want to know,

45:55

and I feel like we've all just

46:03

through the process of starting

46:03

this season and starting to

46:06

record and talking to one

46:06

another, we've had a lot of

46:09

aha's and things that we've

46:09

learned. So what is one thing,

46:12

one aha, you've gained from this

46:12

episode, one thing you've

46:15

learned through creating this

46:15

episode?

46:19

You want me?

46:20

Do it up if you've got one.

46:22

Mackenzie

46:22

brought up that resilience is

46:24

not a trait. I am just like, I'm

46:24

just like, I feel like I've had

46:30

that weigh on me since I was

46:30

like five or six. Yeah, because

46:36

I'm not resilient, I became a

46:36

drug addict. You know, that's

46:41

just the bottom line of how I

46:41

felt for 31 years. Today that

46:46

weight is literally like, wow.

46:50

That's gonna make me teary, Courtney.

46:56

You know what,

46:56

I am resilient. I'm resilient.

46:58

Yeah. And I'm, like, super proud

46:58

of myself now. Like, I don't

47:02

have a whole lot of confidence

47:02

but that really just like wow.

47:07

Heck, yeah.

47:07

Oh, I love that. I love that.

47:14

Gosh, I would say, well, the

47:14

resilience as a personal trait,

47:21

that's like a cognitive thing

47:21

that I know. And like, I

47:24

remember learning in school and

47:24

that, like, that's not what it

47:26

is, it's not a have it or don't

47:26

have it. But so the way you're

47:30

talking about it and for me,

47:30

starting to recognize like,

47:33

wait, wait, you're talking about

47:33

it as a personal trait. This is

47:36

not a trait. No, you build this

47:36

Courtney, you have this, you've

47:39

definitely been building it. So

47:39

that was definitely like, that

47:42

was a significant moment for me

47:42

as well. But I'll also just say,

47:47

as I was putting the episode

47:47

together, this idea that we use

47:50

for the strategy of adversity

47:50

with or without support is

47:55

really going to determine or

47:55

impact the outcome. And so as I

47:59

think about our kids, that so

47:59

often, as parents, we want to

48:04

protect them from the hard

48:04

things in life, which comes from

48:06

like a really good place,

48:06

especially if we've been through

48:08

hard things, that we then don't

48:08

want to see our kids go through

48:12

it. But that I may or may not be

48:12

able to control the challenging

48:16

thing they experience. But what

48:16

I can impact is how I support

48:20

them in that, and that either

48:20

can create this yeah, that can

48:26

create resilience. Just like

48:26

that showing up is so powerful,

48:30

and supporting them in that and

48:30

so I'd say that's an aha, that I

48:34

feel like I am gonna carry into

48:34

what I'm doing with my kids. I

48:39

can't control that this happened

48:39

to you or that this is

48:41

happening, but I can show up,

48:41

like, I can be here and support

48:44

you in it. So that's probably mine.

48:48

And I just

48:48

want to say like, just in this

48:51

time we've spent together I feel

48:51

like I've learned and learned

48:54

and grown and I just look

48:54

forward to the rest of the

48:57

season. So everyone listening,

48:57

you're in for a good treat here

49:02

as we complete this season. I'm

49:02

excited for it.

49:05

Awesome. Yeah, thanks, Kenz. And thanks. That one wasn't so hard.

49:07

Sometimes when you don't know

49:11

what's coming, it's like what is

49:11

she going to ask us. Oh, so

49:16

thanks for playing along with that, Courtney. We'll do that each episode. She'll ask us

49:18

something and we'll just kind of

49:21

share our insights or lack of.

49:21

Well, that's what we have for

49:27

our first episode this season on

49:27

raising resilience, thinking

49:31

about how cycle breaking is a

49:31

part of that and how you might

49:35

not feel resilient, but that

49:35

you're building your resilience.

49:39

And as you look back, and

49:39

honestly that idea of like how

49:41

far we've come, when you can

49:41

think of it that way, you can

49:44

often see your resilience in a

49:44

different way. So there's so

49:48

much good stuff out there. And

49:48

we hope this is meaningful for

49:50

all of you and there's so much

49:50

more to come. One thing we're

49:54

adding this season that we

49:54

haven't done before, is we want

49:58

to kind of sign off with a

49:58

little like positive affirmation

50:01

or some positive language on the

50:01

theme of the episode. So this

50:06

idea behind this first one is

50:06

probably going to sound familiar

50:08

to people who've been listening

50:08

for a long time. But our

50:11

affirmation for today that you

50:11

can repeat to yourself that I am

50:15

genuinely repeating to myself in

50:15

my personal life. There are no

50:20

good or bad parents. I am doing

50:20

my best right now and I can keep

50:25

growing and learning as a

50:25

parent. So as you think about

50:28

resilience, and as you think

50:28

about raising resilient kids,

50:33

there are no good or bad

50:33

parents. I'm doing my best right

50:36

now. And I can keep growing and

50:36

learning as a parent. So there's

50:39

more good stuff to come. We hope

50:39

that everything we share in the

50:42

podcast helps you on that

50:42

mission to grow and learn as a

50:45

parent. But can you tell us

50:45

what's coming next in our next

50:48

episode, Courtney?

50:50

Absolutely. So

50:50

in our next episode, we talk

50:52

about parenting under stress,

50:52

and talk about a concept called

50:55

good enough parenting.

50:57

Yes, I'm excited to talk about good enough parenting and where that

50:59

comes from. So thanks for

51:02

joining us today on The Science

51:02

of Parenting podcast. A friendly

51:06

reminder that you can subscribe

51:06

or follow our weekly audio

51:09

podcast on Apple, Spotify or

51:09

whatever your favorite podcast

51:12

app is. So come along, so we

51:12

don't miss the rest of the

51:15

episodes that are coming yet

51:15

this season.

51:18

Yeah, so come along as we tackle

51:18

our ups and downs, the ins and

51:21

outs, and research and reality

51:21

all around the science of

51:24

parenting.

51:26

The Science of

51:26

Parenting is hosted by Mackenzie

51:28

Johnson, produced by Mackenzie

51:28

DeJong, with research and

51:31

writing by Barbara Dunn Swanson.

51:31

Send in questions and comments

51:34

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51:34

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51:55

This project was supported by the Iowa Department of Health and Human

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52:00

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52:04

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