0:00

ABC Listen, podcasts,

0:02

radio, news, music and

0:05

more. What

0:08

is it about Tasmania that excites scientists

0:10

so much? Well Hobart is

0:12

Science City, as we've said on the

0:14

science show before. Just look around. So

0:17

many labs, CSIRO, amazing animals,

0:20

and also top 100 scientists.

0:23

Elizabeth Blackburn, Nobel Laureate, Derek

0:25

Denton, founder of the Flory,

0:27

Leila Landofsky, Eureka finalist and

0:29

Brain Wiz, Groot Reber,

0:31

an inventor of radio astronomy, on

0:33

and on. No wonder Gail McCollum

0:35

moved there with Cosmos. Hello,

0:50

Robin Williams. Good to be with you

0:52

again. Yes, Cosmos, one of Australia's very

0:55

few homegrown science magazines still going, and

0:57

they've just scored the 100th edition, and

1:00

counting. The editor is Gail

1:02

McCollum, and she's from one of our

1:04

journalistic royal families. How long

1:06

have you been an editor now? Four years, give

1:09

or take. And you've just reached and

1:12

passed the 100th edition with

1:15

the most wonderful cover, which we'll describe

1:17

in a minute, but the theme was hope. Why

1:20

did you choose that? Well, I think

1:22

science is one of the most hopeful possibilities we

1:24

have on the planet. It's our best chance for

1:26

our best future, and it's our only chance for

1:28

any future. And actually, I think scientists and what

1:31

they do, exhibiting daily

1:33

commitment to hope. Every day they go to

1:35

work in a variety of different fields, whether

1:37

you think about it or not, thousands of

1:39

people go to work to solve a problem

1:42

that they think is going to make the

1:44

world better, and they're often right. Are they

1:46

just doing science for science stake? Science

1:49

for science sake still leads to

1:51

some outcomes. Famously, many of the great science

1:53

discoveries come as mistakes, epiphanies, or things that

1:55

were being searched for on the way to

1:58

something else. I mean, a lot of people

2:00

argue about space research at a

2:04

distance. I think it's a

2:06

binary choice. I don't think it has to be

2:08

either-or. Humans are in-built

2:10

for curiosity. We're in-built to try

2:13

and discover, and who knows what

2:15

collateral information we'll discover along the

2:17

way. Now you appealed to

2:19

your readers for evidence of

2:21

their own hope. What sort of replies did

2:24

you get? We got a lot of

2:26

fabulous children considering what they wanted.

2:29

A lot of them involved flying cars, which

2:31

is again, something personal to me. I'm very

2:33

glad that people want flying cars as well.

2:35

And a lot of them facing the things

2:37

of climate and offering suggestions or solutions for

2:39

things that might help keep us on this

2:42

planet in a habitable way. Why

2:44

do you like flying cars? Because aren't

2:46

they bad enough in gridlock, especially in

2:48

big cities, maybe unlike Hobart where you're

2:50

living, but they're not flying

2:52

around as well. Well look, it's a bit

2:54

of a joke on my part. In the 60s

2:57

or in the early 70s, that was going to

2:59

be the idea. We were going to have flying

3:01

cars. The world was going to look like the

3:03

Jetsons. You think about Star Trek. A lot of

3:05

things have come to pass as a result of

3:07

that, but a few of the things haven't. I

3:09

love the idea. If you think about the Jetsons

3:11

and you think about their maid, Rosie, that was

3:13

something we all thought was going to happen now.

3:16

Robot maids were going to come and

3:18

make life easier. Of course, we now

3:20

do have our robot maids in Roombas,

3:22

but actually that computing problem, that robotics

3:24

problem remains the same. Robots are

3:26

good at things that we find quite hard to do. They're

3:29

actually not so great at doing things we

3:31

find really easy to do, like emptying the

3:33

dishwasher. It remains one of the great problems

3:35

of the robotic era. Gail,

3:38

you're from one of the great journalistic

3:40

families of Australia. The

3:43

name Mungo McCollum is, of course, ingrained

3:45

on me because I knew old Mungo

3:47

because he was there in the ABC

3:49

in the beginning directing television, the first

3:51

ever, I think, ABC

3:53

television news program. There's a picture of

3:56

him on the third floor at Ultimo

3:59

pointing at... very startled Prime

4:01

Minister Menzies, as

4:04

if Mungo is in charge of the wonderful

4:06

new studio. Did you know him well? I

4:09

did. I had the great pleasure

4:11

of the wonderful lunches on his balcony with

4:13

Polly in Balmain. He was a very graceful

4:15

and gorgeous man. People might not know he

4:18

was also a poet. He

4:20

wrote a number of fiction books and

4:22

a memoir. A man I love and

4:24

I know he introduced you to particular

4:26

kinds of technology. I've never met a

4:28

man better with a fountain pen and

4:30

less interested in telephone than him

4:32

and he was a truly superlative letter writer. So

4:35

I treasure the letters I still have even though

4:37

we lived in the same city. He just

4:39

shot off a letter to brighten my day.

4:42

Mungo McCollum is a famous name in the

4:44

family. Why aren't you called Mungo as well?

4:47

Well luckily I am a woman and there

4:49

was some debate about that it had to

4:51

be a man. There was a suggestion I'm

4:53

told that Mungalina was on the possible names

4:55

list for me so I thank

4:57

my mother dearly for that not being the

4:59

outcome that occurred. But it does mean there

5:01

aren't any Mungos left in the world. Maybe

5:04

there'll be some more in the future. We're talking about

5:06

this because it shows a great

5:08

range of family interests and indeed

5:11

humour. That

5:13

is clear in the magazine and the

5:15

100th edition absolutely delightful with

5:18

a huge range of topic from

5:21

animals to space and even you've

5:24

got a particular one which shows

5:26

there's not just stem but steam

5:28

in other words art mixed

5:30

up amongst the science technology and

5:32

mathematics and such like. And

5:35

the cover you write a long piece on

5:37

the cover and how it came to originate.

5:40

The cover is full of absolutely

5:42

vibrant colours and fruit and water.

5:45

What does it represent? Well

5:47

I think in the end science is about telling

5:49

a story. It's about answering

5:51

questions and trying to solve mysteries. It is

5:53

the best puzzle game we'll ever have. It

5:56

is the best escape room that exists. It's

5:58

just happening in real time. But

6:00

in the end it's about taking material

6:02

and trying to build something with it,

6:04

building a cohesive set of ideas or

6:06

set of explanations. I love Jenny McCracken

6:08

came up, we gave her a brief

6:10

for what we wanted it to be,

6:12

that idea of what's possible, what we've

6:14

achieved and there were some things that

6:16

we wanted to include in that. A

6:18

famous success story, a humpback, but of

6:20

course there are big issues about time,

6:22

renewable energy, space, medicine, all of these

6:25

things. When she came up with the

6:27

concept of having this kind of reverse

6:29

paint coming up through the cover, taking

6:31

these raw materials and turning into this total

6:33

universe, I will say that the cover was

6:35

five metres high, is five metres high and

6:37

those of you who are in Adelaide are

6:40

most welcome to go to the Royal Institution

6:42

and see it. It's a really striking piece

6:44

of art. Marvelous, isn't it?

6:46

Now the challenge is, with

6:49

all this variety which

6:51

represents true nature in

6:53

a magazine, you are asking

6:55

to some extent a challenge for the

6:57

reader to concentrate and

7:00

have the fun of exploration.

7:03

Do you think 21st century readers are

7:05

equipped to do it? I certainly hope so, Robin,

7:07

because if they're not I'm out of a job.

7:10

I think that we're all seeking stories,

7:12

well I'm certainly, seeking stories that show

7:14

me the path to the future. We

7:16

have a great deal of concern about

7:19

it, for all sorts of reasons all

7:21

of them real and I

7:23

feel like we need to be able to tell

7:25

the stories about how that future can be a

7:27

good one, a sustainable one, one that excites us

7:29

and it is the science of everything so it's

7:32

a job. You've got to be everywhere

7:34

looking at all the things and I

7:36

agree with you Robin, smart is great, I

7:38

love smart. Smart and funny is also great,

7:41

does tend to be a family trait and

7:43

I hope that what the magazine does for

7:45

readers, not just people who are scientists, it's

7:47

all for a general reader, it just gives

7:49

people an insight into that smart,

7:52

funny, amazing work. Indeed well

7:54

I've always found it very very easy

7:56

to work through the magazine because the

7:58

headlines are the best. So they're the

8:01

individual articles playing and they keep you

8:03

up to date. Everything from

8:05

Mounting Possums, Big Me Possums,

8:08

and as I said, space stuff. So

8:11

you know where you are, but it

8:13

is like a very good book, a

8:15

concentrated read. And whether the

8:17

young people have got time to

8:20

apply, you know, a good hour

8:22

spent on that magazine is very

8:24

much rewarding. Have kids got an hour

8:26

these days? I grew up in a house that

8:28

had New Yorkers. So I

8:30

came to... Don't take days. And

8:33

they come out every week, Robin. Goodness me, it's

8:35

a full-time job. So I grew

8:37

up loving the cartoons. I grew up

8:39

in a house with National Geographic. So

8:41

of course you love the picture spreads

8:43

and all those things. I think there

8:45

are things in every magazine that

8:48

you can enjoy in the moment because you know

8:50

you're interested. But I hope that the gift of

8:52

it is that you can come back to it

8:54

suddenly and see other things as you

8:56

get to them as you're interested. I hope

8:58

it's a mix of things that are long and

9:01

short. I hope some of it tends more towards

9:03

the funny and some of it more towards

9:05

the world changing and the life changing. And

9:07

I think of it actually less as

9:10

a book, more as a shelf of

9:12

books, that each story has the opportunity

9:14

to open that narrative. So I do

9:17

think that people can get drawn in.

9:19

It's part of magazine craft, I hope,

9:21

that people can be drawn in by

9:24

the illustration, by the words. Once you

9:26

get caught, once you've hooked on the story, then

9:28

how can you not finish it? I always need

9:30

to know the end. And

9:33

of course the 101st edition is out and

9:36

what about the 102nd? Well on

9:38

the drawing boards, lots of fun things to look

9:40

forward to. Again it never stops happening, does it?

9:42

I was thinking about one of the reasons that

9:44

I think hope was really important for us. The

9:47

first issue came out and you were

9:49

very involved in Cosmos' Testation and Birth,

9:53

So if you think back to 2006 and think

9:55

about what we've learned, what we've

9:57

gained, look at the advances in cancer

9:59

treatment. treatment, in streamlined medical treatment, we

10:01

no longer treat our cancer, we treat

10:04

my cancer. Look at the

10:06

advances in renewable energy. I'm hoping

10:08

102 through 199 all look at

10:13

those advances issue by

10:15

issue. And finally of course you're

10:17

also online, are you not? We are.

10:19

We have a fabulous daily site. We

10:21

have a newsroom of seven journalists working

10:23

out of South Australia and Melbourne. And

10:26

yeah, it's important without being too

10:28

more tish about it, the

10:31

facts matter. Words have power and the stories

10:33

we tell about the future we're going to

10:35

get, we're going to get the future we

10:37

deserve with our learning, with our knowledge and

10:39

with our belief in the facts. And that's

10:41

what we hope we're doing every day at

10:43

Cosmos. Thank you Mangalina. Oh

10:46

God, never again Robin. Oh,

10:49

I hope she will. Gail McCollum,

10:52

editor of Cosmos Magazine in Hobart where

10:54

she lives and works. And yes, I

10:56

am involved here and there with both

10:59

the Royal Institution in Australia based in

11:01

Adelaide and the Science Media Centre there.

11:04

In Hobart there's that huge famous bridge

11:07

connecting both sides of town across the

11:09

mighty Derwent River. Infrastructure,

11:11

bridges and buildings. In

11:14

Britain last year there was a massive

11:16

scandal still on about hospitals and schools

11:18

built 30 years ago with

11:20

that bubbly concrete. Now it

11:23

threatens to crumble so hundreds of those

11:25

schools were closed with little notice. Campbell

11:28

Middleton is a professor of such things

11:30

at King's College in Cambridge. But

11:32

you come from Australia, you come from Tasmania

11:35

do you not? Yeah, they

11:37

occasionally let people out once or twice

11:39

a year. But that was many years

11:41

ago. How have you been here? Since

11:43

1984 I first came over. What's so much

11:46

fun about Cambridge for you? The

11:48

mixture and the diversity of the people

11:50

you meet and the science

11:52

and the technology that's going on. But

11:55

also I think the other thing is the

11:57

quality of the students. That is really what

11:59

I think. why this place buzzes because we're

12:02

fortunate, it's a privilege to have such talented

12:04

students that come in who do all

12:06

the real work. Many from Australia? A

12:09

few. Obviously, post-graduate level, we get

12:11

a lot of the PhDs coming over if

12:13

they aim for either America or

12:16

smarter ones, pick the UK, I should add.

12:18

But occasionally, you get the undergraduates as well,

12:20

so. And you get that sort of interaction

12:22

even in engineering

12:24

and architecture? I have

12:26

to smile when you say that. Of

12:29

course we do. Talented young students and

12:31

yes, just because you're in the sciences

12:33

doesn't mean you can't communicate and have

12:35

fun as well. No, exactly. Have you

12:38

specialised in bridges mainly? Yes,

12:40

for the majority of my career, I always

12:42

describe myself as a bridge engineer, but more

12:44

recently, I've moved into wider aspects of

12:46

the whole construction industry and

12:49

the construction of the built environment, which

12:51

provides the opportunity to really address some

12:53

of the major challenges facing humanity. Because

12:56

if you think about it, all these

12:58

key areas from the climate change

13:01

emergency, but also in the

13:03

quality of life, fall back to the

13:05

transport systems, which we build as

13:07

the civil engineers, to the energy

13:09

that we need, the power stations

13:12

and the wind turbines are all built

13:14

by the construction industry. And

13:16

then also the housing, the water

13:18

supply, and so on. I

13:20

get excited about the opportunity for our

13:23

industry to really be a

13:25

provider of many of the solutions we

13:27

must and will need for

13:29

addressing all these challenges. I've heard

13:31

lots of ideas and I broadcast them. Oh,

13:34

smart brain saying what's possible, but then

13:36

to get the traction with the outside

13:39

world of applying some of these ideas

13:41

so that they fit together and you

13:43

can see the reality of a better

13:45

life. How's that happening? You're absolutely right.

13:48

That is one of our greatest challenges.

13:50

And I would argue that much

13:52

of the challenge we face is

13:55

getting the actual evidence and the data

13:57

that provides for the policymakers.

14:00

and the politicians the evidence

14:02

of what improved outcomes can be. And

14:04

that's something where all the

14:06

excitement at the moment with big

14:08

data, AI and machine learning is

14:10

highlighting the need for

14:12

that fundamental data. The Facebooks

14:14

and the Amazons and the Googles have

14:17

been on that for years and scooping up all

14:19

this data. But you'd probably

14:21

be shocked and surprised to see how

14:24

much of our built environment, our

14:26

bridges, our tunnels, our roads,

14:28

our power centers, how much we actually

14:30

know about how they perform and

14:33

how close to the limit they are,

14:35

how much residual life they have, how

14:37

are they deteriorating. All these issues, we're

14:39

only just beginning to recognise how important

14:41

that area is and how

14:44

we need to use the new sensors, we need

14:46

to collect the data and most

14:48

importantly know how it informs decisions. One

14:51

of the things that are paradox which

14:53

we all know about is when you

14:55

have firms, you want to have a

14:57

building put up or you want to

14:59

have an area council chooses, a firm

15:02

is going to put up the latest road conjunction

15:04

if you like and what

15:06

you want is something we can afford

15:08

and the money rules at all costs

15:10

and also the speed at which you

15:12

can get it done so that people

15:15

stop complaining about disruption to their lives.

15:17

Those two things, money and

15:19

convenience, keeps getting in the way of progress

15:21

in some ways, do you agree? Yes, in

15:23

principle, but neither should be a barrier to

15:25

what could be done because the reality

15:28

is we're going to build, we're going to do

15:30

these things anyway. Our argument

15:32

is by a little bit of thought, better

15:34

understanding of what's actually going on and why, we

15:37

can dramatically improve it and we're actually

15:39

getting evidence right now on

15:41

things like building just your normal

15:44

commercial building in London or Sydney or

15:46

anywhere else around the world. The

15:48

industry has a reputation for, it comes

15:50

in over cost and over

15:52

time in many cases. Whether

15:55

that's actually true, there are various people trying

15:57

to collect that data, but our

15:59

argument is that If we redo things in

16:01

a slightly different way, more attention to

16:03

thinking up front, planning up

16:05

front instead of the pressures to deliver

16:07

yesterday, that little bit

16:10

of sitting back and reflecting can

16:12

absolutely transform the outcomes. And

16:15

there are opportunities to dramatically improve speed

16:17

at which things are done, the

16:20

quality at which things are done, and that of

16:22

course leads to dramatic savings in costs. So it's

16:25

more about, as you said, changing the mindset

16:27

of accepting that, oh, we need it

16:29

the cheapest. What we really want is

16:31

the best long-term value, and that's a

16:33

mindset change. Let me give you a

16:35

couple of examples and ask you for a couple of examples

16:38

of the sort of thing you're talking about. The

16:40

University of Technology in Sydney, I have been in

16:43

a department of the studying

16:45

of building research where they've

16:47

got examples of seaweed that's

16:49

been changed around to be

16:51

a substitute for

16:54

concrete. Okay, you may mix it

16:56

with supplies of seashells, which are abundant as

16:59

a result of the fishing industry, and normally

17:01

they're thrown away, and you

17:03

then add various things like collected

17:05

glass, perhaps, so that

17:08

sort of thing's going on. And

17:10

then in Western Australia at Curtin

17:12

University, they're looking at the trackless

17:14

tram. Why do you want it

17:16

trackless? Well, Professor Peter Newman says,

17:19

so that you don't have a track down

17:21

which then determines how the city is going

17:23

to develop, rather like in Los Angeles, you

17:26

put out the cars, because

17:28

all the roads were there and you had no choice.

17:30

So you've got that flexibility in both putting

17:33

the buildings up, and also

17:35

the other example of having

17:37

transport doing in a more flexible way.

17:39

What are your examples? And that's

17:41

a lovely example of two very innovative,

17:43

novel ideas which are changing the mindset

17:45

of what's possible. The interesting

17:48

thing with both of those will be, will

17:50

the clients, will the governments implement

17:52

them and take that step into

17:54

the dark, so being prepared to take a risk.

17:57

And that's why we need to be collecting the evidence, prepare

18:00

to take a trial, demonstrate the

18:02

tram system you're talking about in Western Australia,

18:04

we'll do it. Build a small one, show

18:06

the outcomes, measure the benefits. And

18:09

that's the sort of entrepreneurial approach we

18:11

need to get at the policymaker and

18:13

the client side to do that.

18:15

I would argue that if we just keep going

18:17

with the more of the same, we're never going to make progress.

18:20

Give me some examples from your own field. Well,

18:23

one of the interesting ones is in the sensor

18:25

technology and what we can measure now of

18:28

the performance of structures, for example.

18:30

And the simple example we do is we've

18:32

been monitoring a couple of rail bridges in

18:34

the UK using fiber optic technology,

18:37

the same as you use in your telephones

18:39

and the internet. But these have

18:42

the capacity to be able to

18:44

measure strain and temperature over

18:46

long distances. And by using

18:49

them appropriately, we can actually measure now

18:51

how a bridge deforms,

18:54

how it strains, and from that infer what's

18:56

the loading on it and

18:58

infer how safe it is, things like

19:00

that. And through doing that, we've demonstrated

19:02

that on the bridges we've been monitoring,

19:05

both very new ones recently constructed,

19:07

that actually you've got a massive

19:09

reserve of strength that was really

19:12

not recognized. So overnight, if

19:14

we can build up the confidence to

19:16

use this data to reflect on our

19:18

structures, I would argue that you could

19:20

dramatically change the way we design things.

19:22

We save enormous amounts of money, materials,

19:25

and carbon by

19:27

beginning to realize just how much

19:29

over-design there is in the world,

19:31

and yet we won't be affecting safety if

19:34

it's done properly. But before we can do

19:36

that, we've got to build up enough

19:38

evidence and collect enough evidence to get the confidence.

19:40

It's not just one or two examples. We've got

19:42

to do this. And that's using a transfer

19:45

of technology from the telecommunications

19:47

industry into the civil engineering

19:50

industry is one example of it. Are

19:52

the authorities, the politicians, and the

19:54

planners listening? Some are. Not

19:57

enough in my view, but then we equally as

19:59

academics. have failed too often to

20:02

demonstrate value. We've got excited about

20:04

a technology, shown some

20:06

measurements, but we have to be

20:08

able to collect the evidence to

20:11

demonstrate that true value and not lose sight of

20:13

that in the end is what we've got to

20:15

do. So yeah, it is a

20:17

big challenge. There are examples over the

20:19

world of this, but interestingly, in sectors

20:21

like the offshore oil and some of

20:23

the private areas where there's big money

20:25

and they appreciate you stop or

20:28

interrupt production or operation for just a short

20:30

period of time, it adds up very quickly.

20:33

The challenge in the public sector,

20:35

things like infrastructure is, well, who's

20:37

paying for the delays when

20:39

you close the M5 in New

20:41

South Wales or the M25 in London because

20:44

it's all the individual people that

20:46

are disrupted. There's no single person

20:49

collecting the money. You do that to

20:51

an oil company, you've shut down oil

20:53

production and that's big money. And that's

20:55

one of the challenges to recognise the

20:57

value to society and where

20:59

the clients and the government need to

21:01

take on board that wider recognition that

21:04

this is society's money. But if you

21:06

don't take the long term, for instance,

21:09

looking at the ways in

21:11

which a disease can predominate and a

21:13

friend of mine wrote a book called

21:15

The Coming Plague 30 years ago and

21:17

guess what? Two years ago, there it

21:20

was. And similarly with

21:22

the kind of disasters that happen with

21:24

infrastructure, not being able to deal

21:27

with floods or fires for that

21:29

matter, that you end up paying

21:32

far more, the trillions, than if

21:34

you actually slowly wore the delays

21:37

and all that sort of thing. But you

21:39

come from Tasmania, there's a wonderful novel called

21:41

Bruny based on Bruny Island

21:44

where a great big bridge suddenly is

21:47

built by various means. Heather Rose wrote

21:49

the book and she's from

21:51

Tasmania as well. It's a very interesting

21:53

exercise in looking forward. What sort of

21:55

things would you like listeners to think

21:58

of in terms of... if

22:00

you like, what Barry Jones was doing with

22:02

the Commission for the Future, imagining what their

22:05

world might look like if they had the

22:07

choice really to look forward to it. It's

22:10

a pretty challenging question but I think one

22:12

thing that strikes me in my

22:15

field in bridges, the one

22:17

thing as you look around the world is what

22:19

a place maker and what an incredible

22:21

influence they have. And you think of the

22:23

number of cities around the world where the

22:26

big iconic bridge is the symbol

22:28

of the structure from Tower

22:30

Bridge in London, be it Sydney

22:32

Harbour Bridge in Sydney, be it California with

22:34

the Golden Gate. But secondly

22:37

how they bring communities together and

22:39

provide a complete transformation in

22:41

the life of people. And it's not only

22:43

places like many years ago they built what's

22:45

called the blinking eye in Newcastle, across

22:48

the river there joining what was the

22:50

Gateshead area to the other side. And

22:53

that absolutely led to a dramatic transformation

22:56

in the regeneration of an area that

22:58

had been run down somewhat and

23:00

the city changed enormously. But

23:02

you go out there's a wonderful

23:05

charity called Bridges for Prosperity which

23:07

goes around the world to developing

23:09

countries and helps out with some

23:11

often trained engineers to work with

23:13

the local community to replace an

23:16

old rope bridge across a huge gorge

23:18

which children are trying to cross to

23:20

get from one side to another. It

23:22

can absolutely transform the lives of so

23:25

many people. This sort of ability

23:27

to really improve the quality of life

23:30

by thinking about it. That's the one side. But the other thing as

23:32

you said it's really thinking for the

23:34

long term and I don't think we do

23:37

enough of that. It's all focused on this

23:39

year's budget. But again it's a

23:41

mindset and in my own experience

23:43

it's always individuals, one leader,

23:45

one individual be it a

23:47

politician, be it in a government

23:50

body, be it in a company, you

23:52

get those visionaries that make things happen

23:55

and they're the people to go and line up next to and follow

23:57

and we need more of that and Australia's got a lot of people

23:59

to do that. I've got many examples of that. I

24:02

keep looking at many examples of

24:04

what Australia's been doing in infrastructure.

24:07

And I was out there last year on

24:09

a visit and fascinated by the big build

24:11

in Victoria. Tens of billions

24:13

of dollars being redirected towards

24:15

redeveloping the trams, the level

24:17

crossings, bridges, the rail system out

24:20

there. And everywhere I went

24:22

around the country, people said, look at that

24:24

as an example of what's possible of

24:27

changing the mindset of how you deliver

24:29

infrastructure, how you manage it, how you

24:31

invest thinking about just how do we

24:33

do things better. I

24:35

have a number of roles over here

24:38

where we're often looking to Australia for

24:40

that innovation and willingness to just let's

24:42

show how we can do things differently. The

24:44

importance of leaders and inspiration reminds me of

24:46

the top 100 scientists, making

24:49

things happen and following through.

24:52

Cam Middleton from Tasmania is

24:54

Professor of Construction Engineering at

24:57

King's College Cambridge, the science

24:59

show on our end. Music You

25:17

saw to photosynthesis the way plants make

25:20

food for themselves from CO2 and water

25:22

with help of sunlight and food for

25:24

us. But did you

25:26

see just before the end of last year,

25:28

Nature, the journal, published a discovery that

25:31

the most ancient signs of such

25:33

photosynthesis could have been discovered in

25:35

Australia in the Northern Territory, dating

25:37

back 1.75, that's one and three-quarter billion years. Well,

25:42

there are plenty of ancient fossils in

25:44

this land, but also very young scientists,

25:47

such as the superstar of STEM, Dr.

25:49

Taylor Siska, a post-doc at

25:51

the University of Sydney. Yeah,

25:53

so my main work is trying to engineer

25:55

a system to help plants grow more efficiently.

25:57

We eat plants as a result of the

25:59

research. food, the plants actually produce their

26:01

own food. Through photosynthesis they take light

26:03

and carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and

26:05

they turn into sugar that they then

26:07

use for energy. But that process actually

26:09

isn't very efficient in plants, it's more

26:11

efficient in algae. Does it need to be

26:14

more efficient? Well, generally in

26:16

order to grow more crops... For

26:19

us now. It's not for the poor plants.

26:21

They're doing all right, but you're telling them

26:23

that they're not. Well yeah, it's

26:25

a bit like that. So evolutionarily speaking, way

26:28

way way back in the day, plants were

26:30

actually much better at it. But as the

26:32

atmosphere has changed, as conditions have changed, the

26:34

proteins in plants haven't quite kept up because

26:36

they haven't had to. But we've put some

26:39

particular pressure that evolution hasn't

26:41

been able to respond to in quite the same

26:44

way. So now we have to try

26:46

to come up with a different solution. I'm

26:48

going to make you cross and I'm going

26:50

to refer to Canberra, the ANU, where

26:52

they're doing all sorts of things with several

26:54

different ways to improve photosynthesis

26:57

by a fact of almost four,

26:59

four times more productive, which would

27:01

make crops so much more valuable.

27:04

Are you in connection with them

27:06

as well? This project is

27:08

a collaboration with the Centre for Photosynthesis at

27:10

ANU. So we actually are collaborating with folks

27:13

there on this project because I'm a protein

27:15

engineer. I engineer proteins. I am

27:17

not a plant person. We're moving into

27:19

plants, which will hopefully be early next year. That's going to

27:21

be down in Canberra. How do

27:24

you engineer proteins which are gigantic

27:26

molecules to get them exactly the

27:28

right shape for them to do

27:30

their work? So it all

27:32

comes down to the DNA, your cells full of

27:34

protein. And in order for your cells

27:36

to produce those proteins, they need instructions that come in

27:38

the form of DNA. And we understand

27:41

how your DNA relates to a

27:43

specific protein. And so we can

27:45

change the DNA sequence to have

27:48

slightly different features in a protein. You

27:50

add a bit of Lego to the other end bit. Something

27:54

like that. What are your

27:56

successes so far? Well the system we're

27:58

trying to build is kind of a copycat. of

28:00

a system that exists in algae. So the

28:03

whole issue with photosynthesis, the reason why it's

28:05

not as efficient, is there's a particular protein

28:07

that's supposed to take the carbon dioxide and

28:09

turn it into other things that become sugar.

28:12

And that's kind of the cog in the machine, that's

28:14

the bottleneck. So we're trying to improve the activity of

28:16

that protein by kind of building it a home office,

28:19

using a big protein shell.

28:22

So think of the shell as like your

28:24

four walls, and the protein goes inside, and

28:26

we're trying to engineer those four walls to

28:28

be optimal. Think about it like a snack

28:31

drawer, or like a good chair, or

28:33

like one of those curved monitors in an office,

28:35

just something to improve your activity. So

28:38

so far, we know we can

28:40

make the four walls. We know we can get

28:42

the other protein inside. So a lot of our

28:44

efforts now are trying to optimize the environment for

28:46

more activity, and try to make that protein work

28:48

even faster and more efficiently. When you've

28:50

done that, will you give me a ring? Sure. Hopefully

28:54

early next year. Thank

28:56

you. Yeah, thank you very much. Dr.

28:59

Taylor Siska at the University of Sydney. And

29:01

now it is early next year, 2024. So

29:05

we're standing by for news. Something that can

29:07

be old news is the

29:09

American Civil War. But it's

29:12

also relevant today. Too many wars

29:14

around right now, aren't they? And

29:16

botanist Dr. Peter Bernhardt knows why we should

29:19

learn from them, and those

29:21

of yesteryear. Richard

29:23

Evan Schulte is one of

29:25

Harvard's finest professors of botany,

29:27

once observed that, historians

29:30

stumble because they know so

29:32

little about botany. Let's

29:35

consider that statement. Aren't

29:37

most wars all about depriving

29:40

the enemy of his own

29:42

landscape? As

29:44

past conflicts required the

29:46

resource provided by plant-based

29:48

foods, drugs, fibers,

29:50

and timbers, the

29:53

American author Judith Sumner has

29:55

taken all of this into account

29:57

in her most recent book.

30:00

plants in the Civil War, a

30:02

botanical history. The

30:04

author does a brilliant job over

30:06

eight chapters, covering less than 200

30:09

pages. She

30:11

preserves the authenticity by

30:13

including many illustrations derived

30:15

from science and agricultural

30:17

books, as well

30:20

as newspapers of the same

30:22

era. Mrs.

30:24

Sumner's bibliography draws on almost

30:26

300 documents from

30:28

official government pamphlets to

30:32

ladies' magazines. She

30:35

weaves together the accessibility and

30:37

application of native and introduced

30:39

species used by plantation

30:42

owners, their slaves, and

30:45

the armies of the North and

30:47

South. The text

30:49

filled my head with images

30:52

of desperation. A wife of

30:54

a Confederate soldier wore an

30:56

absurd hoop skirt of 13

30:59

meters of cotton fabric, but

31:01

she turned her flower garden

31:04

over to opium poppies. Morphine

31:07

was the only dependable painkiller for

31:09

the wounded and was

31:11

in short supply due to blockades.

31:15

In contrast, here is a

31:17

slave woman serving dinner in

31:19

bowls made only of the

31:22

hard rinds of bottle

31:24

gourds, La Goneria,

31:27

Ciceraria, but she

31:29

chews the roots of cotton

31:31

in secret. The

31:34

gossip pole they contained probably

31:36

limited her ability to produce

31:38

more children for her master

31:40

to sell. By

31:43

due native blackberries, Rubus species

31:45

received 10 references in

31:48

the index. They were

31:50

a famine food by the war's

31:52

end and quick to colonize abandoned

31:54

fields. The trees

31:56

were at war. Sumner

31:58

reminds us that a specific gravity

32:01

of .55, the

32:04

wood of black walnut, Juglen's

32:06

Niagara, was so shock-proof and

32:08

rot-resistant it made the best

32:11

gun stocks. Wooden

32:13

legs for amputees were carved first

32:15

of native oaks, but

32:18

some preferred black tupelo,

32:20

Nisa Silvatica, because

32:22

it was cross-grained and less

32:25

likely to split. Using

32:28

iron as a mordant,

32:30

the bark and shells

32:32

of butternut, Juglen's Cineraria,

32:34

gave Confederate uniforms their

32:36

characteristic gray color. Sumner

32:40

describes American botanists at war.

32:43

Henry Ravenel made his slaves

32:45

collect fungus specimens before losing

32:47

his fortune. In

32:50

contrast, Asa Gray, Harvard's

32:52

first professor of botany,

32:55

kept up his correspondence with Charles

32:57

Darwin and the two of them,

32:59

celebrated the end of

33:02

slavery in paragraphs alternating

33:04

with descriptions of pollination in

33:07

orchids and primroses. But

33:10

you must be asking, what

33:12

is all this to an Australian,

33:15

especially one who remembers the

33:17

Ken Burns documentary? I

33:20

think there are at least two lessons here for

33:23

you. First, people

33:26

make the same mistakes in

33:28

different places in different times.

33:31

When Judith Sumner writes

33:33

that by the 1860s, the

33:36

American South had already

33:38

deforested over 60 million

33:41

hectares because they

33:43

found it easier to clear more

33:45

land for reasons of economy and

33:47

soil fertility, it

33:50

may remind you of Queensland

33:52

and northern New South. majesty

34:00

of their native trees, they

34:03

also aped the British taste

34:05

for exotics from Asia. That

34:09

meant importing what became in

34:11

face of camphor laurels, cinnamomum

34:13

camphora, and

34:16

uh-oh, polonias. They

34:19

also took an unfortunate fancy

34:21

to Australia's white cedar, milia,

34:25

asderach, which also

34:28

escaped. I was

34:30

surprised to learn that the

34:32

beloved and invasive Cherokee Rose,

34:35

Rosa Lavegata, of

34:37

Brea Rabbit's Briar Patch came

34:40

from China. Second,

34:44

yes, America has entered a

34:46

bizarre age in which some

34:49

think they must protect children

34:51

by banning books from school

34:54

libraries. I'll bet

34:56

you think that includes this book

34:58

because it details the daily mistreatment

35:00

of a race and

35:03

the inadequate care of

35:05

military casualties, including

35:08

the use of extracts of

35:10

woodland herbs for

35:12

outbreaks of venereal disease.

35:16

Well, you're wrong. I

35:19

asked the author and she reminded

35:21

me that Civil War history remains

35:24

a respected business and brand of

35:26

scholarship in the American South.

35:30

School boards and parents have not messed

35:32

with their plans in the Civil War

35:34

to date. Think

35:37

about that should you ever visit New

35:39

Orleans. Residents still

35:42

drink their Civil War daily

35:44

blending of coffee with the

35:46

roasted root of European chicory,

35:48

Secorium intibus. Pure

35:52

coffee was another wartime

35:54

shortage. Mixed with

35:56

chicory, it's the historical

35:58

signature still profound. preferred by

36:00

its residents of all colors and

36:03

tourists like me. Peter

36:06

Bernhardt, botanist at St. Louis, Missouri. And

36:09

the book is Plants in the Civil War,

36:11

the History by Judith Sumner. And

36:13

yes, with the wars on now, the

36:16

same terrible experiences are being repeated. Won't

36:18

we ever learn? And

36:21

so do the Caribbean, from which the West

36:23

Indian team now with us has come. Pauline

36:26

Newman, who seems always to be visiting

36:28

faraway places, sent this report from Aruba.

36:31

It's near the coast of South America,

36:33

and Venezuela has fine white

36:36

sand and lots of turtles. Welcome,

36:38

my name is Tobias Sishelo, and I have started

36:40

to come here in 2015 as a student, and

36:44

as a guest lecturer, and now as a

36:46

full-time lecturer at the University of Aruba. And

36:49

I hope to stay here for a

36:51

long time. I really feel at home here. I

36:54

take it you come from somewhere in

36:56

Europe? Yes, indeed. I was born in

36:58

Belgium, and my mother's from Belgium, but

37:00

actually was raised in Italy. I

37:03

studied environmental sciences for my bachelor

37:05

in the Netherlands, where I

37:07

came actually for the first time to Aruba

37:09

through my bachelor thesis on marine pollution. And

37:12

then I went to do my master

37:14

and specialized in marine ecology. I'm also

37:16

starting now my doctorate, my PhD studies.

37:18

So I hope to really look at

37:20

the interaction between the people in coral

37:22

reef, and how can we make that

37:24

more sustainable? So it's like a

37:26

wonderful way to combining your passion

37:28

with your work. Now, I

37:31

believe actually that the coral in the

37:33

Caribbean is in danger. Yes,

37:35

for sure. We have seen a rapid

37:37

declining life coral cover in the past

37:39

40, 50 years in the Caribbean. It's

37:42

one of the most impacted areas in

37:44

the world, especially compared also to the

37:46

Pacific, the Great Barrier Reef, and Papua

37:48

New Guinea, where it's a lot more

37:50

healthy. Here we have seen rapid decline

37:52

and a rise growth of mackerels in

37:55

compared to corals. What's going

37:57

on? That's a very good question. That

37:59

has like a... multifaceted answer because of

38:01

course there is many different stresses

38:03

that are impacting coral reefs. Ecological

38:07

stresses related to climate

38:09

change, rising temperatures, increasing

38:11

intensification of storms, but

38:14

there is also a lot of social

38:16

related stresses. Rapid population

38:18

growth, rapid tourism growth and

38:20

not supporting sanitation facilities, there

38:23

is also in chronic pollution

38:25

of nutrients. There is

38:27

also in this pre pollution that varies

38:29

across islands. If there is agriculture,

38:32

if there is more industry development

38:34

along the coastline or for

38:36

instance recreational activities like a lot

38:38

of boating, the noise, the propellers

38:40

can cause a lot of sediments

38:42

with suspension and that can also

38:44

impact coral reefs. And

38:47

if the coral reefs are in trouble

38:49

what implications does that have? Well

38:51

there is a lot of ecosystem

38:53

services linked to coral reefs. They

38:55

provide the food, livelihood through the

38:57

diving tourism, snorkeling and they provide

39:00

also one of the main sources

39:02

of the beautiful scent that we

39:04

see here across the island. So

39:06

it's like degradation of the reefs which

39:08

reproduce those scent and it

39:11

also creates a barrier towards the storm

39:13

and heavy winds. Therefore if

39:15

coral reefs start to disappear we will

39:18

see also the increasing fish, therefore also

39:20

in livelihood for people. And

39:23

how about global warming? What's happening there

39:25

to affect coral bleaching? Well bleaching

39:27

is a natural response of corals

39:29

to stress. So when the temperature

39:31

of the water increases above the

39:33

summer maximum we usually see a

39:35

response of the coral to distress

39:38

with bleaching. So they

39:40

release this algae that live in their

39:42

tissue and they have this symbiotic relationship.

39:44

And when they expel this algae they're

39:46

actually their main source of food. So

39:49

we see the translucent skin of the

39:51

coral and their skeleton. And if the

39:53

algae doesn't come back, so when

39:55

the temperature goes down it should come back.

39:57

If it doesn't the coral will probably be

40:00

more exposed to other stress or diseases and

40:02

it's like a small nutrition so there is

40:04

a high chance of mortality. And

40:07

are people here in Aruba very

40:09

involved in conservation? Yes, for

40:11

sure. A part of the population is

40:13

really active in that field and indeed

40:16

there is many conservation institutions like Fundación

40:18

Parque Nacional Aruba who is involved in

40:20

the management of the marine park. There

40:22

is a local organization that I'm part

40:25

of the board of Scobabables as involved

40:27

in the restoration of corals involving

40:30

the youth of Aruba and

40:32

now there is actually an international collaboration

40:35

and it really revolves around the

40:37

restoration of mangroves and coral reefs.

40:40

So we plan to actually implant artificial

40:42

reef structure and out-plant locally

40:44

grown corals on this artificial

40:47

reef structure to kick-start the

40:49

restoration of the reefs. And

40:52

what's that got to do with the mangroves? How are

40:54

they involved? The idea is to restore

40:56

the waterways because due to construction we

40:58

have blocked some of the waterways of

41:00

the mangroves so it results in accumulation

41:03

of sediments and they start to be

41:05

choked by the sediments. So the idea

41:07

is to recreate these natural waterways. Now

41:10

is the growth of the mangroves or

41:12

is the health of the mangroves anything to

41:14

do with the coral reefs? For

41:16

sure they're intertwined like also the species

41:19

that live on corals they also live

41:21

part of their lives in the water

41:23

of the mangroves. Usually mangroves

41:25

are used as nurseries for the fish. They

41:28

are born in the mangroves, they move to sea grass

41:30

and then to the coral reefs. To

41:32

link the deterioration of the reefs to the

41:34

deterioration of the mangroves more research needs to

41:36

be done. And there is a

41:38

link between the three ecosystem, mangroves, sea grass and

41:40

coral reefs. There's enough

41:43

known about the sea environment in

41:45

the Caribbean or have more basic

41:48

fundamental studies got to be done. There

41:50

is a great variability across

41:53

islands. Some islands have

41:55

a lot of data, a lot of research

41:57

being done on them where some islands actually

41:59

have because a lot of the

42:01

equipment that you need for fundamental research

42:04

are quite expensive. So

42:06

this actually ties in very well

42:08

with an interesting project that is

42:10

happening right outside here. Metabolic

42:13

Foundation, they try to do a lot

42:15

of citizen science projects and also to

42:17

development of technology. They have makerspace, they

42:19

also have a van where people can

42:22

go there and build their own things.

42:24

There is 3D printers and tools where

42:27

the students can learn how to use

42:29

these technologies. One of the projects that

42:31

are involved now is called Surfside Science

42:34

to build their own sensor to monitor

42:36

changes in the sea and they use

42:38

also open source satellite data for the

42:41

recording and the sea floor mapping.

42:43

So that can be reproduced across

42:45

the Caribbean with low cost equipment

42:48

that everybody can build themselves through

42:50

open source mechanisms. It's

42:53

a fantastic project also. Interesting

42:55

parallels with their own marine predicaments,

42:57

science being shared internationally. Pauline

43:00

Newman in Aruba, a piece of paradise

43:02

they say. In

43:04

the science show over the past six years

43:07

we have brought you many superstars of STEM.

43:09

These are women who have been selected by

43:11

Science and Technology Australia and trained

43:13

in media as well as being assessed as

43:16

brilliant in their field. One

43:18

was on early in this program, that's

43:20

Dr Taylor Sisko talking about photosynthesis. Here's

43:23

another Kirsten Beckendorf of

43:25

Southern Cross University. She

43:27

was on the science show way back but

43:29

what did we talk about then? We

43:32

were talking about prawns and

43:34

pesticides in Vietnam. Are you

43:36

still in the same field? Yes, so I'm

43:39

very concerned about the healthfulness of our seafood

43:41

and of course our seafood is only as

43:43

healthy as the environment in which it's grown.

43:46

So I have been investigating pesticides in

43:49

our waterways in Australia now and

43:51

in our seafood. In our

43:53

seafood here. So I've actually been

43:55

looking at wild oysters and

43:57

crab and collecting them from our estuaries

44:00

and testing them along with the water

44:02

and the sediments for pesticide residues. What

44:05

they have in them? Mercury? Well definitely

44:07

a range of heavy metals. We've

44:09

found high levels of mercury in

44:12

some places, nickel and chromium, but

44:14

more concerning is actually the insecticides

44:17

and herbicides that we're finding. I've

44:19

found 21 different pesticides

44:21

in Richmond River and large

44:23

numbers in our oysters so we can get on

44:25

average eight different pesticides in single oyster

44:27

samples and quite a number

44:30

of those are actually pesticides that are banned

44:32

from use overseas. I found one pesticide that's

44:34

actually banned in Australia as well. And

44:36

how do you account for that? Yes it's not

44:39

good, it's not a legacy pesticide because it's

44:41

one that breaks down pretty quickly in the

44:43

environment so it shouldn't be there. It's

44:45

probably been stored by the farmer and

44:48

is continuing to be used after the

44:50

ban has actually come in. How

44:52

many farmers do you think may have a

44:55

similar situation not being aware of the kind

44:57

of rather dangerous material they've got that should

44:59

be looked after and disposed properly? I don't

45:01

think we know because I don't think we

45:03

investigate it enough but certainly in a different

45:05

catchment I did find a different pesticide that's

45:08

also banned so I don't think the majority

45:10

of farmers would do that but I think

45:12

you hit the nail on the head when

45:14

you said about awareness whether they're actually aware

45:16

and I think that a lot of farmers

45:19

are probably not aware of how harmful these

45:21

pesticides are to their own health let alone

45:23

to the environment. I would have

45:25

hoped that they're using less in the

45:27

way of pesticides these days for all

45:30

sorts of environmental reasons. Unfortunately the pesticide

45:32

sales in Australia have doubled in the last

45:34

few years, they've doubled so yeah

45:36

there's actually a really large number of

45:38

pesticides currently being imported and used

45:41

in Australian agriculture. And we can't

45:43

have genetically modified crops or anything

45:45

like that which is going

45:48

to make the situation less problem. Unfortunately

45:50

a lot of the genetic modification

45:53

is actually for herbicide resistance so

45:55

they actually can encourage more pesticide

45:57

use. Snookered! I

46:00

think what we really need to be looking

46:02

at is integrated pest management, so actually bringing

46:05

the predators back into our cropping systems and

46:07

controlling the insects a little bit more naturally.

46:10

You mean they're there already, they're not

46:12

aliens being imported, exotic ones? No,

46:15

a good natural healthy ecosystem will

46:17

have a mix of insects which

46:19

include predators and when the ecosystem

46:21

is in balance that's probably a good way

46:23

to control a lot of the pests because

46:25

we will always get pests that are resistant

46:27

to pesticides if you expose them to too

46:29

much. So part of our problem is that

46:31

we actually have large monoculture in Australia and

46:34

that encourages certain types of pests that come

46:36

in and really do a lot of damage.

46:38

In the northern part of New South Wales it's been

46:40

pretty rough for reasons we know very well flooding

46:42

and so on. How's the university

46:45

coping? The university was quite heavily

46:47

involved in that whole flood recovery activity

46:49

and certainly we do have

46:51

a number of funded projects at the

46:53

moment looking at flood impacts and flood

46:55

recovery. I've been monitoring the impacts of

46:58

the flood on our estuarine systems and

47:00

particularly looking at all the little invertebrates

47:02

that feed the fish in the rivers

47:04

and they're starting to recover which is actually

47:06

a really good sign I think but it did

47:08

bring down a lot of heavy metals and

47:10

particularly the floods after the fires and

47:13

of course the pesticides. See you in another 10

47:15

years. Thank you. Kirsten

47:18

Beckendorf at the Southern Cross University near

47:20

Lismore in New South Wales doing

47:23

valiant work despite the floods. She's

47:25

a superstar of STEM and here's

47:28

another just to give you an idea of the

47:30

huge range of talents. Anna Bawick

47:32

is a practicing pharmacist and she's doing

47:34

a PhD at the University of Queensland

47:36

and runs pharma online. Are

47:39

you from a very famous Australian family? No.

47:42

I married in and I do not know the history of

47:44

my husband's family at all. Phew.

47:49

Let me just tell you a story. I've been

47:51

most relieved that I don't have to make

47:54

an appointment to get my blood pressure measured.

47:56

I can go into a pharmacy and get

47:59

that and also... I can get

48:01

my vaccines done. How long

48:03

has that been going on, that sort of flexibility? Yes,

48:05

there's been a major opening up of

48:08

the scope of practice for pharmacists in

48:10

recent years. And I've been involved in

48:12

a number of those trials that are

48:14

actually happening across New South Wales. So

48:16

we've been vaccinating for a good while,

48:19

doing flu vaccinations for many years. With

48:21

COVID happening, we then have taken on

48:23

the largest proportion of COVID vaccinations across

48:25

the nation. And now we

48:27

are actually able to allow patients

48:30

to have their immunisations on the

48:32

National Immunisation Program, which we've

48:34

never done before. And so that has just

48:36

started as of the 1st of November. And

48:39

are the pharmacists who are overworked, you know,

48:41

six, seven days a week? Are

48:43

they protesting? They are so

48:45

excited to be able to offer more and

48:47

do more. I think what we've probably seen

48:49

right across the country is it's very hard

48:51

to get into a GP. There

48:53

are less than a hour bulk billing, so it's

48:55

becoming more expensive. And having that

48:57

opportunity and that skill set in a community

48:59

pharmacy where you can walk straight in without

49:01

an appointment, I think is really exciting. My

49:04

colleagues are really proud to be able to

49:06

offer so many more services and

49:08

medications now than they ever have before. How

49:10

many are worried about the fact that they need a bit

49:12

of a background? For instance, if

49:14

I have blood pressure, do they know nothing about

49:17

my history? They just know I

49:19

might, who knows, get a drug

49:21

now and then? Are

49:23

they worried about not having sufficient information just

49:25

in case someone turns up with a lawyer?

49:28

Look, I think pharmacists are really good

49:30

at taking medical history and medication history.

49:32

That is what our main role is.

49:34

So I think most pharmacists are able

49:36

to work very quickly with the patients

49:38

in front of them. I think we'd

49:40

love to see a system like My

49:43

Health Record be highly accessible so that

49:45

all results, all pathology, all interactions and

49:47

consultations are actually recorded there. So that's

49:49

a real passion of mine, is making

49:51

us more digital and more digitally enabled

49:53

so that people can move around the

49:55

country and have the same information, medical

49:58

information, following them and speak to any

50:00

help. professional and has that information readily

50:02

accessible. And when do you finish your quest?

50:05

Hopefully in 2026 I

50:07

still have quite a bit of my quest to

50:09

go but as I said yeah digital health is

50:11

definitely my area of expertise and very much

50:13

looking at the influence that I can make there

50:16

and looking at new models of care that will

50:18

improve healthcare outcomes across Australia. Thanks

50:20

very much. Anna

50:23

Barwick another superstar of STEM at

50:25

a session hosted by SBS Television

50:27

actually. Soon some of them

50:29

will be on our top 100 list I

50:31

bet. If there's room next week

50:34

on the science show something well as

50:36

Python used to say completely different. Here's

50:39

a clue. Good

50:47

morning. Romanikov I'll here with the book

50:49

show on ABC Radio National. Today Simon

50:51

Winchester joins us from New

50:53

York to speak about his

50:55

book Bomb, Book and Compass

50:57

Joseph Needham and the Great

50:59

Secrets of China. Needham was

51:01

a scientist fantastic with languages,

51:03

a great traveller, a diplomat,

51:06

a socialist, a Christian, an

51:08

exponent of free love, a nudist, a morris

51:10

dancer. I'm not sure if he danced the

51:12

morris dance in the nude but I will

51:14

ask. Most of all he

51:16

was passionate about China. As editor

51:19

and co-author of Science and Civilisation

51:21

in China a massive multi-volume study

51:23

he spent more than 50

51:25

years collecting and compiling evidence on

51:27

China and really

51:30

discovered it was the birthplace of so

51:32

many many many things from chest to cartography

51:34

or and from the stirrup

51:36

to the suspension bridge. Yes Ramona from

51:38

a while ago on ABC Radio National

51:40

but what's this got to do with

51:42

our top 100 scientists? Science

51:46

and Civilisation in China was Joseph

51:48

Needham's encyclopedic account of China's achievements

51:51

over thousands of years in science

51:53

and technology. Well it's up

51:55

to about 24 volumes now. I've seen 23 and I've

51:57

seen 24 and now more. More

52:00

of them are in publication because people

52:02

have been collaborating together after he

52:04

died in 1995

52:06

and the work he undertook has been

52:08

continued by the Needham Research Institute in

52:11

Cambridge. Looking at

52:13

the subject matter of these

52:15

studies, it's quite astounding. There

52:17

are volumes on mathematics and

52:20

physics, mechanical engineering, civil engineering,

52:22

chemistry, paper and printing of

52:24

course, physiology, military technology, alchemy,

52:26

ceramics, many other things, all

52:29

this from the texts of ancient

52:31

China and from the mind of a

52:33

very remarkable man. And that

52:35

remarkable man was Joseph Needham. He

52:38

reminded China after the century there

52:40

of humiliation of their astonishing

52:42

history. So we shall hear

52:44

once more from Simon Winchester and his book, Bomb,

52:47

Book and Compass, about how

52:49

that Renaissance took place in modern China.

52:52

Could the same happen here? The

52:54

science show is produced by David Fisher. I'm

52:56

Robin Williams. Thank

52:58

you. more

54:00

great ABC podcasts, live radio

54:02

and exclusives on the ABC

54:04

Listen app.