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On this week's episode of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, I'm joined by Jeremy Corray, Executive Vice President of Digital Engagement, Cool Fire Studios, and my good friend and one of the funniest people I know.

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That's a lot of pressure, but let's share some war stories.

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All right. We are going to dig in to Jeremy's fantastic career, which includes Voltron.

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Stick around.

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Hey there. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast.

0:30

I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer. And today I'm joined by my good friend Jeremy Corray.

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Jeremy is the Executive Vice President of Digital Engagement at Coolfire Studios.

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And he is not only a good story, he's a good storyteller.

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But all the pressure that's like This American life suddenly I'll bring my Ira Glass voice.

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Oh, yeah, that's what we want. We'll have a number of voices that we can.

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We can do it. On this week's episode of The Screen Lawyer.

0:55

Pete from Capes Sokol coming down on The Screen Lawyer.

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We've been threatening to do this for a while. Pete. We have.

1:00

We want you to know when you regret it.

1:02

And we should establish a safe word from the top.

1:06

It's Kilimanjaro. Okay. Hi.

1:08

If you hear that, folks? Later on the the probably be an uneven cut.

1:11

Yeah, we'll come back. Exactly. We'll be appropriately chastised.

1:14

We'll fix it in post by Chris.

1:14

Fix it in post. That's right.

1:17

That's a in fact, I learned the words fix it in post.

1:20

Yeah. From my days of being starting in this world as a screen lawyer.

1:25

Yeah. First with Coolfire Studios. Absolutely.

1:27

The people that love fix it in post are the editors, right?

1:30

They say no, why don't you fix it on the set?

1:34

In other words, and I remember sometimes having to say fix it in post doesn't work when you have footage that has, yeah, stuff in it, you can't use because you didn't get the rights in the first place.

1:45

Yes, we can get into all of that. Yeah.

1:47

You don't want to. That can't be fixed in post sometimes without blurring and then the network doesn't want blur right.

1:54

So but you've been through it all. That's true.

1:56

But we're getting a little bit of ahead of ourselves only because I think I want to reach back a little bit and to tell the audience a little bit more about you and your fascinating story when when we first met, and I don't know if you remember this, I remember everything.

2:12

It's a curse.

2:12

I'm like an M. Night Shyaamalan movie.

2:15

Well, all right, this is going to be good. Yeah. So we were.

2:18

I think it was before you came to Coolfire. Yeah, but my partner, Mike Kahn and I were working on, some projects with Voltron.

2:26

And you were one of the early. You were involved in the early days.

2:28

The bring you back.

2:31

Just tell the story. Well, you know, growing up in Highland, Illinois, across the river, right?

2:36

I always, I was making zombie movies on VHS editing, you know, Robert Rodriguez style, where you had to hit play and then hit record.

2:42

Those who were there can remember putting in, you know, Super Nintendo sound effects, right?

2:47

It was dark days shooting on the VHS tape, but we loved it and we thought it was totally amazing.

2:52

So got to go to film school in Carbondale down there and actually cut on film and, you know, ran a student TV station there, SPC TV, which was YouTube before YouTube.

3:02

There was no outlet for this stuff. So we were making movies with friends.

3:05

And your rating system was, how much do you get recognized in the cafeteria?

3:09

You know, we pulled a high five or something rating there.

3:11

We got recognized.

3:11

So we had fun. We'd show music.

3:14

That was your version of Subscribe Likes or.

3:17

Yeah, right. Yes. It was awesome. And just making content and really the reason to go to film school, a lot of it is the content or I'm sorry, the contacts you'll make, right, the community that you build.

3:27

Right? Right. Now. I often say like the technical side, you can pretty much learn in a weekend, right?

3:31

No offense, Chris, right. But it's true.

3:34

I could go to a 48 hour film fest, but it's the contacts.

3:37

It's learning how to work with people. It's learning how to put people in positions of strengths and just finesse and woo folks.

3:43

So after that, looked at Chicago.

3:45

I'd done some time in Los Angeles working on The Young and the restless soap opera.

3:49

I wasn't so much into that. And, you know, said to my mom, said, why don't you stick around Saint Louis?

3:54

I said, What is Saint Louis have but Voltron?

3:56

because I knew that Voltron came from a lot of folks don't know this KPLR.

4:00

Right. Channel 11 back in the day. But former boss Ted Koplar was looking for programing, and came across a show, that was actually going to be three different shows.

4:09

A la Robotech for those nerds. We're getting nerdy here. Warning alert.

4:11

Spoiler alert.

4:14

Robotech. Battle of the Planets. Okay, all of these folks were grabbing anime and repurposing it and dubbing it in English and syndicating the content.

4:23

So it was going to be three different shows Armored Fleet Dairugger, Albegas, and a show called Daltanious.

4:29

And Daltanious was had a robot lion robot, lion on the chest of the, the, the robot.

4:35

And through a mistranslation, they sent them a show called Beast King Go Lion, which fans know as Voltron.

4:41

And the legend is when Ted saw that, said, my goodness, this is the one.

4:44

And it was a huge hit, I think a very unexpected hit that led to consumer licensing.

4:50

So any of my 80s babies out there, certainly know Voltron.

4:52

Yeah, there's hot spots for it.

4:55

and they did 52 episodes. It was stripped, and then they had to go back and make another season of this.

4:59

But all the animators were gone by then because the show, it aired in Japan in like 1980.

5:04

So they did the second season in Korea, and expanded it.

5:07

And it was, you know, a legend ever since. So I was on the other side of the TV, but had an opportunity in 2000 to 2003 when I joined Koplar Communications to work on, resurrecting the brand, as it were?

5:19

And a lot of it had to do with legally untangling the rights from Lionsgate.

5:23

And I'll let Bob Koplar, hopefully a future guest, get into some of that.

5:26

And he did a magnificent job and is the real reason why Voltron came back.

5:29

Because, as you know, a lot of these contracts are very onerous.

5:32

Right? and the Lionsgate home video deal, had had first rights of refusal of a movie in there.

5:37

So we had to unclog all of that, then brought it back to DVD.

5:41

A lot of folks had those beautiful steel DVD tins from, from Media Blasters.

5:46

So it was an awesome, you know, front row view to intellectual property and the power of a brand that lasts decades.

5:54

And you just be able to call up and, you know, it was a brand that sold itself because it was just so much love for it.

5:59

I remember calling Sony Pictures and just going Voltron Voltron Volt..

6:01

come on in. Let's do our office meeting and, haven't looked back.

6:05

Had a chance to produce a show, for Nickelodeon's Nicktoons in 2011.

6:09

We gathered up tax credits, did a lot of pre-production, in Canada through, Jason Netters company kickstart, and got to work with Mattel.

6:18

Got to go to San Diego Comic-Con. Yeah, and just live that geek life.

6:21

So, it was a fantastic run, but always knew the folks at Coolfire always helped them, host, Halloween parties or.

6:28

Yeah, we're in between that are quite legendary.

6:30

Legendary. Glad most people don't have their phones out then.

6:34

Yeah, your flip phone wasn't recorded back then.

6:36

We're going to need you to bring that track phone and bring it back to RadioShack.

6:39

So, Yeah, it's been awesome to be, I guess, a Gen-X and see all the progression of screens and technology and particularly video and just really the evolutionary.

6:49

Yeah, you really have and that's and that's kind of fascinating.

6:52

You think about it because you really started talking about literally shooting on VHS, all of that.

6:58

And then the I think the story and where we met was when I was working with Mike and helping you guys analyze some of those IP issues when you're first getting it out and then when you came to Coolfire, by then I had moved there as legal counsel and we were getting into television and new shows. Yeah.

7:16

And then all of a sudden you showed up with this digital engagement movement.

7:22

And I thought that was fascinating at the time because, you know, we were and it was you talk about an evolution and how this all how the industry works, you know, for a while.

7:32

First Coolfire just made commercials. Yeah, right. Advertising agencies hired them. Yeah.

7:36

They were pros. They shot the commercial, produced it, all of that.

7:39

Then they get into original programing and that's when I joined and we were getting, you know, release forms and.

7:45

Well, yeah. And in doing getting all the rights in the production legal.

7:48

But we were selling a show to a network.

7:50

There's a one way path work for hire, work for hire.

7:53

If the network bought it, they paid for everything.

7:55

They owned everything. And we, you know, did all the contracts and it was on time and on budget.

8:00

The company made a fee, but it was it was still a one way path.

8:04

Yeah. And then the concept of branded content starts.

8:07

Yeah. And people wanted to start getting on to other platforms besides spending the brands instead of just spending their money on a television commercial. Right.

8:15

Would you have no idea to measure and really use that commercial and when to where you go getting into that attribution?

8:22

Let's talk for attribution for two hours.

8:24

Well, exactly.

8:24

And what a challenge it was.

8:27

So all of a sudden there was this opportunity, right, to take brand storytelling in a new way.

8:33

And of course, then how do you find the audience?

8:36

And that's where you guys came in. Well, right.

8:38

Yeah. And you know, Jeff Keane founder of Coolfire, is very good at hiring, you know, investing in people.

8:44

Right. And then we'll figure out the business plan later.

8:46

And originally, my job was to sell shows to the internet, unquote.

8:50

It was it was I was going to be Steve who's who's been on the program right, for the internet.

8:54

And if you remember, there was this window of time where the MCN’s right, Multi-Channel Networks, the Maker Studios, Dreamworks TV, so came on board with a rather lewd, homage that, Bob Koplar and I had created to 80s, toys.

9:09

It was our, revenge. The, the Man Blasters and, sold that.

9:13

People paid us US dollars for this.

9:16

I think Coolfire got a little cut. Something, to to make our studios have a comedy channel.

9:21

Nacho Punch. And this is back when all the YouTube channels the PewDiePie.

9:25

Right. YouTube's having a moment. I mean, it's growing up. It's exploding.

9:28

And we sold a show to a little show called Toby McBeard, a little animated piece that Wes Murrell had done Mike Kerns to Dreamworks TV, which was their YouTube channel. Right.

9:38

and, you know, it's good if you and I are in an apartment, you know, three grand or something like that, an episode.

9:43

But it's not truly a business plan that's good for pizza money and, you know, some weed or something.

9:47

I don't know if that's where you're going, but, in instead we realized.

9:51

And to your point, and I have to thank, you know, folks like Jenny Dibble(Bristow) and Dionne Joffray, who, did the show Thrift Shop Divas and Thrift Shop Divas that was a great on YouTube.

10:01

Yeah, yeah. And that was the first time I remember seeing Trueview YouTube targeted.

10:06

And suddenly now you're able to meet viewers where they are and brands were waking up to the fact that they're all essentially micro TV stations and publishers.

10:15

So Brian Sawyer, who I just had lunch with yesterday, came in wanting a website for Build-A-Bear, and I said, what about this phone?

10:22

My kids are eating up YouTube, like your channel needs to be programed to it.

10:27

So he's like, what do you got in mind? So I said, it's got to be Bear with a Blog, right?

10:30

And they have a bear, you know, Beremy me and, Sharon Johns and Maxine Clark build a bear.

10:35

Fantastic brand, who is still work with to this day, came in.

10:39

I did a whole, you know, I called my, puppeteer roommate from college, right as one has, you know, got him on speed dial and said, boy, I finally got a gig for you.

10:47

And he's amazing. Mike Hackett can make these bears do all kinds of things.

10:50

And you can see the outtakes where they're making out and all kinds of dirty stuff.

10:53

Sorry. and so that became Bearville Alive, and it really was a, kind of a evolution of Bearville which was their kind of club penguin thing.

11:04

And there are still folks to this day who will never forgive us.

11:07

It's one thing I learned at Voltron. There are some fans with long memories out there, and you'll recall what we got into together was YouTube has this moment.

11:16

And all of this content, particularly kids content, is blasting out there and it is exploding.

11:22

It's the launch of YouTube kids, which is was their separate app to kind of control some of this stuff because it got right crazy fast and just parents like me, like suddenly you're watching Spider-Man and Elsa make out, like, what is happening here?

11:35

Like, there was it was the wild West of kid content.

11:37

So that's good and bad. There's a lot of creativity out there, but when you're doing things for a brand, they want to make sure that it's all right, fairly buttoned up.

11:44

So as you recall, this is around the time where comments then got shut off for, you know, any video featuring any kid under 16, something like that.

11:52

And we were a launch partner in YouTube kids, thanks to the Bearville Alive show.

11:57

And to this day, the Bearville Alive has such a long tail, long bear tail of views to it that they're re uploading episodes.

12:04

Yeah, and we're talking about maybe doing some future content.

12:06

So that was the first thing. And you remember HIPAA coming into play.

12:09

It was no COPPA COPPA COPPA-cabana.

12:12

That's right. The Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act.

12:14

And we did we really go deep dives with build a bears lawyers with us and working through kind of what it meant to be marketing for children on the internet, what the rules were, how it applied, the kind of notifications, the ability to give parents, the ability to say, turn it off and all those things, kind of, hey, kids, this is a commercial for Bearville.

12:37

Yeah. I mean, the the side effects may include hugs or cuddles.

12:42

Tickles? No, no, tickles.. no, they aren't on the list.

12:45

Right. But. Yeah, but but it was interesting because and this was and this is so funny because you and I had these conversations many times, and there's that tension between the lawyers saying, hey, there's like some lines and you're like, okay, but what if I say it like this?

13:01

Well, what if I blunder over here? Well, what if I just take one leg over the fence?

13:03

Yeah. What if I, you know, there's always that that sort of edge.

13:07

And to me, I one of the most enjoyable parts of my job often is to try to make sure that we can avoid the trouble trouble, but recognize that creativity has got to be there where else?

13:20

It's there's no eyeballs. And so how do you do those things?

13:24

And I think a lot of it comes, to that education like we so we did when COPPA we're like, what is this thing we dug in built in the contract.

13:32

Yeah, we built it into the contract. We spent time internally making sure you guys all of your creative people, knew where the lines were.

13:40

Yeah. And workshops some. Or if we do this, this is okay. If we do this it's not.

13:44

And you get to. So then you're not into a situation where you fall in love with footage you can't use, right?

13:49

The client's not going to pay for or that sort of thing.

13:52

So it's like falling in love with your temp music.

13:54

Yeah, you can't do that. Or the lead actress or actor, now listen, I don't know.

13:59

It's a different ways. different sets now. It's so fun.

14:02

you recall that the Build-A-Bear success led to, our friends at Sepia who had come out with the Zhu Zhu Pets Yes, a, big brand.

14:10

Another, in Saint Louis. Russ Hornsby, formerly of Trend Masters.

14:14

So I was on the other side buying, you know, Iron Giant toys and, all the cool stuff.

14:19

And that's that's fantastic. You should have some of those folks on the show, to talk about all the old IP and the stories of Independence Day, Godzilla, all of these toy lines. So.

14:29

Right. He had launched the Zhu Zhu Pets . I had some friends that I'd worked with, at Koplar that went over there and, had made, helped create the Zhu Zhu Pets, which were those, hamsters that, I think parents around, I don't know, 2005 or so huge hit.

14:43

I mean, this was $1 billion brand, right?

14:45

And they have creative toys.

14:47

They were coming out with these charm bracelets Charm U.

14:50

So we led to a full line of different YouTube shows.

14:53

We found this specialty with kids YouTube programing, and I remember us doing the Charm U show, and all we had was hands of this little girl, Madison, and she's talking and and vivacious actress and she's got them all.

15:04

And that's little Beth Ashby, our art director, made.

15:06

That's just micro world, right? And this thing blew up. Yeah.

15:09

And there were kids on the comments saying, like, I think I know you, you know, do you go to my school?

15:14

You know, and as a parent, you're a little scared.

15:17

I mean, it's just it's it's it's it is a line.

15:19

And we've got to protect our kids, first and foremost.

15:22

But, boy, it's a it just showed the power. I remember.

15:24

Just like there's a responsibility in this, in creating that.

15:28

That's a that's a really I think that's a powerful way to think about it.

15:31

Yeah.

15:31

And that you do have to think about that.

15:34

I mean, I think, you know, we we all we all are responsible for the content we put out there.

15:39

A lot of times you'd think, well, clearly nobody's clearly if I that just came up on my feed, But, when you're talking about doing it professionally.

15:48

Yeah. When you're talking about doing it for brands. Yeah.

15:50

You know, clients paying the company to produce storytelling for them.

15:55

You get into a lot more of this. And then that kind of led into the world of the social media influencer.

16:00

Yeah. And I remember the first time we had to, you know, like I remember learned the term, I think, from your team.

16:06

And then we had to create a social media influencer agreement.

16:09

What does that have to say? Yeah. Oh, Federal Trade Commission guidelines, truth in advertising.

16:14

Yeah. Hashtag sponsored. Yeah.

16:16

All those things about it might have been the Farmland Bacon Club.

16:20

Right. Our brother. Well, may have been, which was a move, you know.

16:23

DJ Coolfire president had brought in those folks.

16:25

And really early on in the, you know, YouTube influencers coming to direct because they're all, you know, a lot of them at heart, film filmmakers.

16:32

so they did a whole farmland Bacon Club. Cannonball was the agency on that.

16:36

And we kind of showed how to do, you know, the thumbnail strategies and, you know, the, pre-rolls.

16:42

And so finally, brands, you have that one two punch of creative video production and smart targeting with it.

16:48

So, yeah, it's it was a whip that led ultimately to our lawyer friends at Brown & Crouppen who would come in for a pizza commercial.

16:55

Did you know that for for Lena’s Pizza.

16:57

Yeah, yeah, they all came in for we had done a show called Oven Confessionals, where everyone is, confessing their darkest secrets to a pizza in the oven.

17:07

I don't know, kind of a Conan O'Brien thing. We had the Rizzuto crew, on theirs, and those blew up, and then, I think, Nick over at IMO's, his step dad or step uncle is Terry Crouppen.

17:18

You know, his law firm, Brown & Crouppen. And they came in and, it was Andy Terry and this guy Ed who I had no idea.

17:25

I thought he was like Ed Brown. No one knew. You know, the Brown would just.

17:27

Right. Rest in peace. Ron Brown.

17:30

And I remember Ed just going off, and I was like, who is this Paul Giamatti?

17:35

Larry David, Saint Louis guy?

17:38

This guy is so funny, right? You know, and then I went to his office, which looks like Planet Hollywood, right?

17:43

I mean, he's got oh, there's the phone from Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

17:46

I mean, this is just like. I mean, it's kind of Tom Hanks in Big in real life.

17:50

Like, whatever you hear, it's just a big kid at the end of the day.

17:54

so that led to it wasn't even in the original pitch, was BC TV.

17:59

I remember just saying BCTV over and over until I heard Terry say it back to me.

18:03

Right when are we filming BCTV?

18:05

I was like, oh my gosh, this is now going to be a thing.

18:08

we filmed that trailer with them and they're just naturally hilarious and I remember thinking, if folks just have lunch with you all, they would, you know, everyone knows you, but, like, what are they?

18:19

It's that brand love that Ed thinks about.

18:21

It's that next level, right? And especially in lawyer marketing.

18:24

I mean, if you want a buzzword that we're trying to humanize, we're trying to make folks approachable.

18:26

Absolutely. And Ed's natural talent, creativity, he's brilliant and just discovered that he had all these blogs he was writing.

18:36

You know, he written even books about, you know, where does Dracula get as clothes?

18:40

This is before Amazon, when all the clothes or clothing stores are closed and he's just emanates content, right?

18:46

He just he's just. And you hear him now, he's having a lot of success on the The Morning After Show, right.

18:51

so it's he's a natural just, very magnetic personality.

18:55

So I remember coming up with a pitch for Ed Versus the Movies and was going to be, you know, Ed V Movies, right?

19:00

Lawyer. And and we did The Dark Knight. Right?

19:03

How many laws does Batman break in The Dark Knight? Right.

19:05

Let's start with those tinted windows, And then he went through and just broke down.

19:10

Yeah, all of the things. And this became, you know, a big hit.

19:14

And that became like, it's also a little micro genre.

19:17

Absolutely. Right.

19:17

I mean, breaking it down.

19:19

But he took it so much further. Yeah.

19:21

As far as like when it started going into his passion points, which turns out snacks, cereal.

19:27

you know, he has a hat, the cake - the middle seat on an airplane.

19:30

Oh my God, that was next level. And I have to thank like Josh McNew, who came from Vat19, which is another Saint Louis brand up there, you know, 7 million subscribers 9, I don't know, maybe the time it took for my, come out of my mouth.

19:41

They've got 2 million more subscribers, but Ed took it and I think the cereal video was really the breakout.

19:47

And the way we filmed it and him mixing cereal, he's the cereal mixologist.

19:51

And that just blew up. And then he did another one on, you know, Ed Versus Candy.

19:54

And then we had to come back to the cereal. So that led to Ed getting invited to speak on different panels, which led to us working with other law firms around the country, from McDivitt in Colorado to de Mayo, to, Miley Legal out of West Virginia.

20:09

We're now working with a law firm out of DC.

20:11

You recall us working with, Thomas J. Henry?

20:14

Out of Texas on hanging with Los Henry's. Yeah.

20:17

and really made the. That's a whole other story as far as creating YouTube stars out of their kids.

20:23

And suddenly she's in the Old Town Road music video, and, I mean, it just blew up, right?

20:27

the lawyer famous for the, how much? $8 million quinceanera? Yeah, 15?

20:29

I don't know what's.

20:32

You know, is that what's gonna happen? So that's crazy, right? Yeah, absolutely.

20:35

And a band, it was late in showing up. Migos and all that.

20:38

Yeah, yeah, I remember me telling my kids it's something Migos and they were supposed to be paid in cash.

20:44

And my kids are like Migos, I love Migos, I know, I don't even know it's real.

20:48

Yeah, we still do work with with that of his firm and it's just very high end.

20:51

So that led us into the world of legal marketing and it's been fantastic.

20:56

And we're finally, kind of putting it all together and branding it Coolfire Law Stars, right?

21:01

Yeah. We're it's not every lawyer, but we've got to go beyond these billboards, right?

21:05

We've got to go beyond the 30s, and you can just drive up and down the interstate and see how much competition, you know, is out there.

21:12

And so that led to Jeff Keane, who has a personal relationship with Jim Onder -Onder Law, getting into more personal injury.

21:18

so did some videos for him. around.

21:20

I had done a sketch in college around cereal mascots gone bad, right?

21:24

They had the holding tank because if you think about it right, the Trix rabbit, he's just he's kind of an addict, right?

21:29

He's just kind of this, he had to get clean once the Trix man.

21:32

And he will do anything to get those. But those damn kids are not going to let him, you know.

21:36

So we had, you know, the boxing brand, Bunny and all that.

21:40

The mascot, you know, castaways, right?

21:43

hanging out. And so I thought, that really translates to insurance mascots.

21:46

And I'm sure folks have done this kind of campaign, but we happened upon, some fantastic local improvers like Ralph Williams and was able to tap into that, with the Mascot Mastermind Club, which is a play on, I don't know if I'm revealing secrets, but a lot of the lawyers will have their mastermind groups, right?

22:05

Where they, they compare, marketing and and hey, what's working?

22:08

What's not.

22:08

So it's a bit of a play on that. Yeah.

22:11

It's perfect, it's perfect. And. Yeah, it's brilliant.

22:13

It's, And I and I think that's so fascinating that you've kind of have, you know, as you do you, you find, I think you if you're going to be successful, obviously you can scattershot and you, you know, you've walked us through a whole wide range of storytelling and, and different connections.

22:31

And I've done a lot of it in my. Yeah, I have evolved.

22:34

But would you you sort of start this when you see things.

22:36

Okay. This resonates. Right. And if this resonates, it's going to resonate with others.

22:39

And there's a market. I mean, we're part of it.

22:42

You were sitting here today creating this is clearly legal marketing, right?

22:46

Right. For my practice.

22:46

No question about it.

22:49

Hopefully it's also entertaining. Yeah, educational and everything else.

22:52

But it is part of, as you said, humanizing.

22:55

Yes. The lawyer. And so when people have to hire a lawyer or people, you know.

22:59

So hopefully in our practice often it's an exciting stage.

23:03

Yeah. Because they're beginning to create something. Right, right.

23:06

But I've been on the litigation side and that's very much a part of a lot of times when people have to deal with a lawyer, it's at a pain point in their life.

23:15

Right. And so a billboard with a bunch of zeros on it and make money and don't pay and all these things.

23:21

So it's everybody, right? Right. And so how do you differentiate. Right.

23:24

How do you take your harmed self or your child or whomever.

23:28

Yeah. And and decide that I as this person is going to be my representative.

23:34

Yeah. This fight. And so I think if they feel like I connect with that person, I'd like to have a sandwich with that guy.

23:41

Yeah. And that's a big reason.

23:43

Let's face it, half that and more than half, 95, 98% of the folks watching are not going to be in need of legal services at the time.

23:50

And while it's not all sandwiches and cereal, there is ways of empowering educating folks.

23:55

So we like to think of it full funnel, right?

23:58

So we do shows like for Tim Miley, we do Tiger Talks.

24:01

Sean Malloy came in for, in your corner with Malloy in your corner.

24:05

So that's a new, series that'll be launching or doing others.

24:08

It's all them coming in and humanizing it.

24:11

Talking about legal issues. We try to get a nice portfolio where it may be something fun on lottery laws and, you know, what are the laws of office pool lotteries.

24:20

And then down to, well, let's demystify terminology around that.

24:24

So if you are, needing a lawyer, at the end of the day you're a little more empowered.

24:28

And there is something special about, you know, folks getting themselves out there.

24:33

So it's not for everyone, you know, lawyers that aren't afraid to put themselves out there to show a little bit of their character.

24:39

at the end of the day, yeah, it's character, you know, cases, you know, and community.

24:44

Right. And a lot of the firms give back and are doing great things.

24:48

So if you can shine a spotlight on that too and just show that, you know, these are people, this isn't some.

24:52

Well, you know, person in a suit on a billboard.

24:55

And you said, you know, at any given time when you're doing it or it's first launched, 99% of the people aren't going to be, you know, at that point, right?

25:04

But what you're also doing and somebody gave me this term years and years ago when it came to legal blogging, we first started.

25:10

But think of it as an archive of expertise.

25:13

You're not trying to get. Who cares if you get how many comments that day or whatever?

25:19

It's that's great. certainly building an audience is reactive and in real time, and looking forward is a goal.

25:26

But often I've found over the years that if somebody finds you or looks you up or gets referred or something at a certain point when they need it, and they can go and find you, oh, look at these 14 videos or 45 or 200 or there's these series.

25:42

Then at their own leisure, they can look through those and decide what they think about you or whether they can resonate with you.

25:49

And so by putting it up there, it doesn't matter if somebody is looking at you right then and doesn't need you right.

25:55

But over time you're building up this entire way that people can find you in a different direction.

25:59

Yeah. And it you know, it does work. At the end of the day, it's about cases.

26:03

And, you know, for instance, Miley Legal did a whole campaign with him in starting in fall of 22, around Tiger talks his, you know, mascot, his his his thing is, is the tiger, right.

26:14

so it's him in, law firm office demystifying the way we edit it.

26:19

You know, it was very much we were early on to subtitles.

26:22

and we also did a program with him called Lawyer Jokes.

26:25

because Tim is creative, he likes to be creative.

26:28

And I think that's when folks come to Coolfire for something sort of out of the box, burn in the box, and then throw it in there and kick it, in the sky kind of thing.

26:36

And then, yeah. So lawyer jokes became a flip on, you know, the old adage of lawyer jokes.

26:41

But we flipped it where it's insurance company jokes and just shot a scrappy little campaign down on the fourth floor in Coolfire. And, you know, it became a big hit around him because it was something different.

26:51

But then it also, you know, you can spin it where, hey, don't let the insurance company make a joke out of your claims.

26:56

So, you know, since we've been working with Tim, his cases are up, you know, around 30%, and have grown.

27:02

So that's a way he can digitally maneuver around some of the competitors and, and really highlight when he comes in next month.

27:10

We're going to do a video on West Virginia road trips. Right.

27:13

So that not only taps into folks looking to travel, but as you know, if you get into an accident, another state, you want to get that in state lawyer.

27:20

So it's endearing him. It's showing that him and his wife, Susan, who are like the loveliest people on earth, if you sit and talk with them, you just realize, like, these people have everyone's best interest in heart.

27:30

This is not some you know, soulless firm that is just going to go.

27:34

These people have experience, Tim, as a former politician in the best way, speaker of the House and just a sincere, great person.

27:41

And you see that and it comes through.

27:43

And then the move I like to do that I don't see a lot of folks doing is take this best of digital and put it on television.

27:49

What I mean by that, there are, let's face it, affordable timeslots, especially to a lawyer that is, you know, spending money and then you assemble them into 30 minutes cuts because they're folks like me.

28:00

It's just they'll have an antenna, right? Yeah. We stream and things.

28:03

But like, there's also folks like Andie over here, probably doesn't own a TV or does or her idea of television, it's probably your Netflix, parents account.

28:12

No, I'm just joking with you. Andie, but that's redefine.

28:15

So what television is these days, it's from newsfeed to TV screen.

28:19

Right? So you've got to figure out how to futureproof.

28:22

How are you reaching folks who are starting to get into adulthood, right.

28:27

And who want to to your point, have that archive that they can tap into.

28:30

Because and I want to talk to a real person. They've done everything digital all their life. Right.

28:34

How can I just reach out there and empower and be connected?

28:37

So and that's what we're seeing with TikTok.

28:39

It's went from dance videos to this is a real educational platform.

28:43

Now, whether it survives all the, you know, things going on in DC, we'll see.

28:47

But, boy. And yet another platform will come take its place right now.

28:51

I've seen them all, but I YouTube for us really has become such a consistency.

28:56

So when I when we started promoting, you know, I think the number one device was, was desktop and laptops that folks are consuming now.

29:04

It's a smart TV with YouTube on it.

29:06

So so and this leads me to the question I like asking everybody.

29:10

And in a way, we've wandered through your screens, aimlessly.

29:15

No, I think there's clearly direction.

29:19

That's the beauty of it. Right. Because you can have an aimless direction.

29:23

Yes. That's right. I think that's right. And so but one of the things I like to ask everybody on this podcast is because I, one of the, you know, the underlying theme here is that everything ends up on a screen these days, right?

29:34

We do business on screens, we enjoy, we consume, we live, we live on our on and with our screens.

29:41

So I like to know, what if I just asked you the question, full stop.

29:45

What's on your screen? That might mean any number of different screens to you at any given time, but what's on your screen?

29:50

Depends on the time of day? I would say Instagram, definitely.

29:53

I think about this a lot as far as like, boy, the aggregate of humor and creativity out there.

30:00

And I think the true social experience I enjoy just, you know, sharing a meme with a text group, right.

30:06

And getting that feedback. So we're all like collectively sharing an experience or just making those little snackable micro laughs I have last year at the Midwest Digital Marketing Conference did a whole panel on snack by meal, right?

30:19

Which is how I like to approach, media and with our clients as well.

30:22

Right. So like CarShield, we do a road trip series with them called Drive On, and we do a long form series. Right.

30:29

So that's more lean back. You're watching this ten minute episode of something that where they're traveling and it's very, you know, branded entertainment.

30:35

But while we're there, we'll film some TikToks, we'll film some more car tips.

30:39

Right? In this next season coming up, we're going to go even a little harder into like, hey, do you know what CarShield is?

30:44

Many folks don't know they're local. They employ a ton of people.

30:47

Dan Bichota former Coolfire guy’s over there.

30:49

He's created CarShield TV, a whole content program.

30:52

It's like a mini Red bull, television around it.

30:55

So I like to I'm fascinated by that world of snack meal bite.

30:59

I think all of our Netflix, queues all of our Hulu Peacock are just that long form that that is, we all have those shows that are backed up.

31:07

Right? So you've got to meet people where they are and they have to consume it where how they want. Right?

31:13

So for me, I mean, just the endless Instagram scroll is, you know, just given my age, just I've certainly dabbled in the TikTok, but boy, it's just fun to like have and there's just micro audiences.

31:24

And that's why, you know, things like the, the, the omni culture.

31:27

Right. The monoculture where we all used to watch whatever.

31:30

The last episode of Seinfeld feels quaint and that doesn't feel like that long ago.

31:35

But now it's just like I can find things that are so tailored to me, right?

31:40

Like retro gaming, YouTube like this is.

31:42

And production quality is just fantastic on it.

31:46

So I don't think we're that far off from I keep saying, you know, someone's making Lord of the rings in their garage right now or close to it.

31:53

And Bob Copler, we talk about, you know, the Voltron.

31:55

He's had a movie in development for a while. Like, you got to do it before someone just makes it like a fan film.

32:01

No, no, that's I mean, it's just it's really it's out that the the amount of content that's happening and so one of the biggest challenge obviously for anybody is feeding their way through that noise to get an audience.

32:13

Yeah. I love the way that you talk about your screen is is a is a consumable sort of constantly Pringles can and we're all popping and not stopping.

32:25

Right. We're just on their butts.

32:25

All right.

32:27

Then you lean back and you're watching, you know, a fantastic Netflix series, or you're going to the Alamo Drafthouse, where I'm a passport member and you're experiencing something, you know, last night, I went and saw Dawn of the Dead from 1978 and, loved it.

32:42

And, just like had the shared experience in the movie, the shared experience is still.

32:46

Yeah, it's still is. And we are just living in the best of times.

32:49

And maybe worst of times, it's like it's the barriers to entry are so down.

32:53

I just have to go to the public access, channel and beg them to play our, you know, VHS things.

32:58

But I think it can all work together. And I think brands are waking up to that concept of how this can all work in.

33:04

And, you know, a word we use a lot is your, your ecosystem.

33:07

So, the smart brands are doing it and the younger brands, there's those bigger, brands that are, you know, a little slower to move and they're all in.

33:14

They're different Game of Thrones, things.

33:16

And that's where these we call them, you know, the challenger brands are going to come in and build their businesses off of great content, and they're going to be the ones, you know, coming in.

33:24

So we'll get into more of that stuff. Midwest Digital Marketing Conference, in May, if you haven't been to it, it is a local one in the region.

33:31

But I encourage, you know, driving in bestmarketingconference.com, I think it is. So, you'll have to come on there.

33:36

I would love to do it. All right. Well, this you'd up guess for the next three weeks you have literally given us so much to think about and talk about.

33:42

This has been fantastic, Jeremy.

33:42

Thank you very appreciated.

33:45

Thank you for joining us. I hope everybody has enjoyed it.

33:47

And you got a lot of cultural references out there, folks.

33:51

So pause and hit refresh.

33:53

Go look up the reference, build your own library of geeky stuff and leave a comment below.

33:58

Smash that. Subscribe I see, this is great.

34:01

How do we do? That's what we say as we say, if you've enjoyed what you've heard today or not, like your audio parts as well.

34:08

Yeah, we're assuming you've enjoyed what you like today and you get your podcasts.

34:11

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34:14

So find us, follow us there.

34:17

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34:20

And if you're watching on YouTube hit that like and subscribe button.

34:23

So you'll get more of Screen Lawyer content.

34:27

You probably see episodes every other Wednesday at The Screen Lawyer Podcast and we hope you'll join us.

34:33

Thanks very much, Jeremy. Yeah, I'm going to follow right now on Spotify.

34:36

I've been putting on. There we go. See, you're watching in real time.

34:39

There we go. Be like Jeremy. Take care folks. See you next time. Peace.

35:02

Screen Lawyer. All right, well, there you go.

35:06

Good luck with that, Chris.