Episode Transcript
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0:10
Last time on the Sicilian inheritance.
0:13
Who's who's that? What
0:15
is his job?
0:16
This job is to work for a
0:19
bird certificate here in the city hall.
0:21
So does he think he has
0:24
more records or no?
0:25
Yes, he stopped checking whether they have more writs
0:28
or no?
0:30
Will he exclaimed? What that book is?
0:33
The book?
0:33
Can we see it?
0:35
Libro?
0:43
So the book describes how everyone in town
0:45
died? Yes, when
0:48
when it died, when they died, and when it died. And it's
0:50
handwritten book. However, can
0:52
you look at it?
0:54
After being told there was no way I
0:56
was going to get to see the records we wanted.
0:58
You know, said privacy. Can bring
1:00
the Book's bring the Booklet's bring the book.
1:02
Here we are houring over a hundred
1:04
year old book of deaths,
1:06
the book from the year that my great
1:09
great grandmother, Lorenzo Marsala died.
1:13
Lorenzo Marsala. There's her name right there.
1:15
I see that. It says mother of paula,
1:18
wife of Antonino.
1:22
But does it say anything about how she died?
1:28
And her name is right there, not
1:30
in the section devoted to natural causes,
1:33
but the other section, the section in
1:35
the back of the book for so called unnatural
1:38
causes an accident
1:42
maybe or a
1:45
murder.
1:46
Okay, she didn't die at home
1:48
because war, maybe to an accident
1:52
vision that didn't report
1:55
the caustic.
1:55
Sectly why so much
1:57
information about where and not the why?
2:02
So we now know something did indeed
2:05
happen, but what exactly
2:08
and why? I'm
2:11
Joe Piazza from Kaleidoscope.
2:14
This is the Sicilian Inheritance, Chapter
2:17
three, the Book of Death.
2:31
M m hm.
2:37
I took a picture of the description so
2:39
we could have someone read it. I
2:43
feel like there's.
2:43
More than
2:44
they.
2:54
That's weird, that's weird, and
2:57
where and where.
2:59
Here in the commune sort of like
3:01
a city hall. I'm buzzing
3:04
with excitement. I'm pretty overwhelmed
3:06
right now, and also a little bit relieved
3:08
because I've dragged a lot of people to Sicily to
3:11
try to solve this murder, and at least now
3:13
we have some sort of clue. And also
3:15
because all of my other relatives who've come
3:17
here to try to see these records, this book
3:20
of deaths, they've been shut down,
3:22
like they literally had the book shut
3:24
right in front of them and were told to get the hell
3:27
out. But here I am just
3:29
looking at these yellowed fragile hand
3:32
written records from the year
3:34
nineteen sixteen. I even
3:36
sneaked a photo of the entry.
3:39
Probably wasn't supposed to do that. I
3:42
also have to say that I'm a little bit stunned
3:45
right now, because as much as I
3:47
wanted to believe that this story
3:49
was true, that something really
3:52
did happen to her, and that my family
3:54
didn't just make it all up, I
3:57
also didn't entirely believe
3:59
that she was ever murdered. The
4:02
town records keeper, Signor Grado.
4:04
He keeps calling her death an accident
4:07
where she died of unnatural causes.
4:13
The entry for Lorenzo's death record is confusing.
4:17
It's confusing to me because it contains
4:19
so much detail about
4:21
exactly where she died.
4:28
Says the area five kilometers
4:30
before entering lockdown on the left
4:32
side of the road. The air where
4:34
she died.
4:36
We know that it's about five kilometers
4:38
outside of town, around a
4:40
bend near the monument of the
4:42
Fallen Masses, near a place where
4:44
there may have been a landslide.
4:46
Signed up.
4:47
He suggested it to stop in a place where
4:50
she probably died that.
4:51
Area, but why she does that matter?
4:53
He thinks that she could have something
4:55
could have happened.
4:57
No, he's not he's not sure.
4:59
He's just trying to show us where should die. That would
5:01
be did we should stope died?
5:03
Just one's harms us see where should die?
5:06
Yeah, we should stop and to take a look on
5:08
the way back. On the way back, But
5:11
we.
5:12
Know nothing about how she died.
5:14
There's not a single word in there about
5:17
the cause of death. I
5:19
am someone who has gone through police
5:21
reports as a reporter, and I
5:23
have never seen a death
5:26
record that doesn't say something
5:29
about how someone died. And
5:32
so it seems like whoever got the privilege
5:35
of writing in Longhand the particulars
5:37
of this death didn't
5:40
think it was important to put down
5:42
the cause of death, or
5:45
was someone important in the town covering
5:48
this up? Is there a reason
5:51
this information is left out of the entry.
5:54
Sometimes the things that are missing are
5:57
just as important as the things that
5:59
are there.
6:00
I have an idea. I have an idea.
6:02
While we're here, we have another thread
6:04
to investigate.
6:05
So, yeah, we're trying to figure out if she was a midwife.
6:07
So can we see if she delivered any babies or
6:09
was present at the birth of babies. But this
6:12
theory comes out of my dad's belief that
6:14
Lorenza may have been a
6:17
witch. And when I say which, I
6:19
mean a healer or perhaps
6:21
a midwife in the village. The
6:24
idea that maybe when she was
6:26
assisting in a birth or trying to
6:28
heal a sick child, that
6:30
child didn't make it, and
6:33
maybe one of the babies died or the mothers
6:36
died, and that maybe she was killed
6:38
because someone was angry about that.
6:41
So we went back a little bit. We started going through birth
6:43
records. In birth records, they
6:45
also contain a lot of information
6:48
about place and who was
6:50
present at a birth, including
6:53
sometimes the name of the midwife
6:55
who helped assist with the birth.
6:57
Can you ask him, ask
7:00
him and we can see the the like
7:02
a few months before, if there was a baby.
7:04
If a baby died, or a mother died.
7:07
Okay, So I'm wondering if we could.
7:08
Start actually to see if she was present at
7:10
any births. So I'm thinking,
7:12
if there's any truth in the story
7:14
of Lorenzo's death being linked
7:16
to the death of a child, then maybe
7:19
we can find the death record of a child
7:21
in the months leading up to the day
7:23
that she died, and that would
7:26
let us go back and see if
7:28
she was the midwife. Now he's looking
7:30
to see if a baby died.
7:36
We ask Senior Gatto to look for records
7:38
of the death of a child.
7:41
But I know there's a lot of deaths, but this
7:43
was in February.
7:44
Will he just look, Just
7:46
look January February
7:49
for a baby.
7:50
Just just that.
7:53
Gena BAMBINII
7:58
less than a year mom, So.
8:00
Just January fab of this year. I
8:06
write that.
8:18
Quanto quaranta
8:25
quan forty forty fifty.
8:27
And you can't find any records of any child
8:29
dying in nineteen sixteen when
8:31
Lorenzo died, or the year prior.
8:35
One more.
8:38
But because we just keep pushing, We're like,
8:40
let's just keep looking, Let's keep looking. He
8:42
flips back to the page where Lorenzo's
8:45
death record is and he
8:47
stops.
8:51
Senior Grotto is like, this is
8:53
big, a big
8:56
question.
8:58
But is it a baby?
9:00
No, no, a man, not a baby.
9:02
So start.
9:05
I didn't say febrio a
9:08
lega trend.
9:10
The same day.
9:14
This is her.
9:15
Yeah, you
9:18
think they're connected, even as the man.
9:20
He thinks they're connected.
9:21
Martino Niccolo Martino.
9:23
Niccolo Martino is the name of Niccolo,
9:26
last name Niccolo.
9:28
On that same day that myle
9:30
Lorenza died, there's
9:32
another unnatural death, the
9:34
death of a man named Niccolo
9:37
Martino.
9:38
Martino Noma bensus. Why does the
9:43
same day at the same time. So maybe
9:46
same places at Testrano, but.
9:47
You can turn to the quest RT. That's
9:51
unusual because there weren't so many
9:53
deads the same day in a small town like
9:56
this in nineteen sixteen.
9:57
That's the same place Costellos.
10:00
So then, my
10:10
god,
10:17
why would they be murdered together?
10:20
He looks closer, but I can barely
10:22
follow along in the Italian And what he's
10:25
explaining is that this man, this Nicolo
10:27
Martino, who I have never heard of,
10:30
not only died on the same day as
10:32
Lorenza, but in
10:34
the same spot at
10:37
essentially the same exact
10:40
time.
10:40
Who is this guy? We
10:44
have to get this exact name, the
10:47
husband
10:52
ten.
10:52
O'clock they came to register this debt.
10:54
Okay, okay,
11:01
at all, we only
11:03
know the same location and the same yeah
11:06
day, Olga
11:14
mortaala.
11:20
Not natural death for the both of death.
11:31
Nicolo Martino,
11:34
who are you? Niccolo Martino?
11:38
He was aged seventy one, and
11:40
we know, like Lorenzo, he did not die
11:42
a natural death. Now, this entry
11:45
again very thorough about
11:47
where this happened, less
11:49
information about how this man
11:52
died, but it
11:54
does list his wife, ji Seppa
11:57
Marsala, And I'm pretty sure
12:00
at this point that Giuseppa
12:02
was the sister of my Lorenza.
12:05
Marito di Marcella.
12:06
Giusep Yespa, Giuseppa
12:09
Massana, the sister of Lorenza, sister
12:17
of.
12:19
The same day.
12:23
You hear me saying there that they were murdered
12:25
on the same day, and maybe it was a crime
12:27
of passion. I mean, come
12:29
on, Lorenza died with her
12:32
brother in law, her sister's
12:34
husband. What is happening
12:37
here?
12:37
Who is this guy that she was killed?
13:02
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with something delicious.
14:21
That was a surprise.
14:32
Let me translate that for you. That's
14:34
our trustee, Chiro, the Piazza
14:36
family's Sicilian guide and fixer,
14:39
admitting that in all of these
14:41
years that we have been telling him this family
14:44
story about the murder of Lorenzo, he
14:46
never believed it. But
14:49
maybe maybe now,
14:52
maybe, especially now that there
14:54
is this other dude involved, this Nicolo
14:57
Martino. Now Ciro's bought
14:59
in, and and why wouldn't he be.
15:01
We have proof that someone else
15:04
died at the same place, at
15:06
the same time, on the side of a road
15:09
about five kilometers outside
15:11
of town with my bis biss
15:13
Nona Lorenza Marsala. So
15:16
yeah, Chiero has finally bought into this story
15:19
for the first time in twenty years, and
15:22
I gotta say so have I
15:25
I am in it. We
15:28
don't have a ton of time to consider any
15:30
of this as we say goodbye to Senior Grotto,
15:33
who really wants to close up for the day. The records
15:36
are only open for a couple hours at a time,
15:38
say to me, Chao Chou,
15:41
and Chiro has made us other appointments. He
15:47
wants us to meet the mayor of the town to
15:50
shake his hand and thank him for
15:52
the access to the records, which is the polite
15:54
thing to do. And
15:58
then we also have to have our life
16:00
unch because being fed is a very
16:02
big deal in Sicily, and
16:09
the mayor has called the one restaurant
16:11
in town and asked to make sure that
16:13
they would be open for us and ready for what
16:16
will definitely become an eight course meal.
16:19
So we hop in the car we're gonna watch. We're
16:21
still reeling this other guy is really
16:24
what what?
16:26
Like?
16:27
Why was she like?
16:28
That's why why was she with some
16:30
dude? And so we know
16:33
she didn't die in a hospital of natural causes.
16:35
She was in the other side of the book.
16:37
She was in the other side of the bo that said not not natural,
16:39
not natural causes, some kind
16:42
of accident in quotes
16:44
with some dude at the same time, Why would
16:47
why like, what kind of accident kills two
16:49
people? Kills two people? There weren't They're not like
16:51
people didn't really have cars in nineteen six a
16:54
little bit outside town. Well
16:57
kind of accident would kill two people outside
16:59
town. And it seems like he might
17:03
have been like her sisters, like her brother in
17:05
law, her brother in law, her sister's
17:08
husband. The
17:10
plot thickens. This is the other church
17:13
right here, that's a cathedral. This is
17:15
where I put my dad's ashes right here, right
17:17
up there. Hi dad, sho.
17:22
We're parking here, we're walking.
17:23
Up yea, yeah, okay,
17:25
maybe it's better to be good.
17:28
Yeah.
17:29
We had to climb some really steep cobblestone
17:32
roads to get to the best and
17:34
only restaurant in town. It's
17:36
Mates M. A. T. E. S. Highly
17:39
recommend it. By the way, Oh my god,
17:41
so beautiful. We
17:44
enter into a cool interior lined
17:47
with old farming tools and olive
17:49
oil press equipment. The walls
17:51
are painted cobalt blue. It
17:54
feels like we're in a cave or a cellar,
17:56
and it definitely feels like we just
17:58
walked back a hundred year years ago.
18:01
So the Mayor I
18:03
want to make sure we
18:06
got here.
18:08
Everyone at this table is very eager
18:10
to follow up on this insane new
18:13
bombshell and also go to the
18:15
place where we now know that Lorenzo
18:18
was killed. But again,
18:21
this is Sicily, and what
18:24
is an Italian murder investigation without
18:26
a very very long
18:29
lunch?
18:30
Should we start with appetizer that If.
18:33
You thought we weren't going to do the big Sicilian
18:35
lunch scene in this podcast, you
18:37
were very wrong, my friends.
18:40
After we have two kinds of pasta, But when
18:42
is the result too with zucchinis,
18:45
peppers, mushrooms and means
18:47
and the other pasta is us
18:50
with the statos. Usually
18:54
we do starters and pasta and after we
18:56
ask you.
18:59
If you.
19:02
Part of Before we're all sitting
19:05
at this long table. There's
19:07
no menu, no menu. They're
19:09
just going to bring us delicious things to
19:11
eat and to drink a lot
19:14
of things to drink.
19:16
It for you, it's good start to passa and
19:18
after we will ask you if you're still angry?
19:20
Yeah, perfect, would.
19:22
You like wine?
19:22
Also Winles or else?
19:25
Kate and I are sitting with Chiro and
19:28
Ettore, our other translator,
19:30
and my cousin. Yeah. Did I not mention
19:33
that my cousin, Laura on my
19:35
dad's side, is here, visiting
19:38
all the way from Scranton.
19:40
And if you remember Laura, she's
19:42
the one that told me she was inside the
19:44
church in Kaltabalota looking
19:46
for Lorenzo's records years ago
19:49
when it was struck by lightning. Basically,
19:52
Laura moved to Sicily because she's working on
19:54
getting her Italian citizenship. So
19:57
of course Chiro is helping her because he helps
19:59
every member of my family do all the things.
20:02
And of course when I told her we were coming
20:04
to count of Blota, she pretty much
20:06
just invited herself along along with her
20:08
husband, who's a really nice guy that i'd never
20:10
met.
20:12
Keep cheese month six months
20:14
old dry with
20:23
bread
20:28
crum cappers and.
20:31
Cheese and.
20:36
The miracle.
20:38
Did you know it?
20:42
That's good?
20:43
That looks great. I'm
20:45
gratzy, tier welcome. We
20:48
just dig right in.
20:53
At this wine
20:55
is delightful, and so I'm shoveling food in my
20:57
mouth while I'm telling everyone
21:00
what happened in the records office. So
21:03
we discovered new information. We
21:06
actually, we actually did detective work. And
21:08
of course everyone has their
21:10
own theory, and
21:12
this is how my family has always swapped bits
21:15
of Lorenzo story over a meal
21:17
at a family dinner or a wedding or
21:19
a funeral. But this time is
21:22
really different. This time
21:24
I'm in her hometown, just
21:27
yards away from the home where
21:29
she lived, and now
21:32
I know, just five kilometers
21:34
away from where she died.
21:39
Bullet right,
21:44
that's weird.
21:45
So probably being killed together,
21:49
right, he will seventy one?
21:51
See, maybe some maybe
22:03
it's it's too weird. H
22:06
that feels significant like this now
22:09
feels like it's more impossible. Yes, it
22:12
feels it feels way more possible that it was murder.
22:14
Yeah, we're only on the pasta course
22:17
at this moment yet,
22:22
and I have to tell you what it is, because that
22:24
would just be cruel if I didn't. There's
22:26
also a busiata al pistachio.
22:29
It's these perfectly tender little tendrils
22:31
of pasta mixed with minced pistachio
22:34
and almonds and then simmered with slices
22:37
of pork.
22:37
Cheek so unusual.
22:40
That was amazing.
22:42
There's also a raviolo with a
22:44
white sausage Ragou. I
22:46
think there might be truffles involved.
22:48
It tastes a little a little.
22:50
Truffly, which Puss
22:52
you prefer.
22:54
It's that.
22:58
Over lunch. As much as we want to talk about it,
23:00
we are having a hard time fitting the
23:02
new information about Nicolo Martino,
23:05
who we think is Lorenzo's brother in law
23:07
and possibly her lover, into
23:10
the theories that we already know.
23:13
If she was killed with her brother in law, does
23:16
that invalidate the theory that
23:19
she was killed because someone wanted her
23:21
to sell her land, or does
23:23
it bolster it was he just an innocent
23:25
bystander. Does it invalidate
23:28
the idea that she was a midwife
23:31
or a healer, or the entire
23:34
mafia theory? Or
23:36
is this just another layer? Is this just
23:38
more proof that someone else was
23:41
caught up in this crime. And
23:44
then my cousin Laura chimes in and
23:46
adds yet another layer that
23:49
complicates this entire thing.
23:51
That's the other piece of the all. Yeah, my
23:54
grandfather's.
23:54
Sharing remembers when
23:57
her mother got call and to pick him
23:59
up and had him in Then he was home, so
24:07
I said, okay, So was that the story
24:10
that was that's revenge
24:12
and got.
24:12
Lost or was it just okay,
24:15
I'm so sorry. Here, maybe recording
24:18
while you're eating a multi course lunch
24:20
and drinking all of the wine, maybe it's
24:22
not the best time to get clean audio. But
24:25
we're in Sicily, and frankly, you're on my family
24:27
trip here, so let me help you understand
24:30
what we're talking about. Laura starts
24:32
talking about a particular wrinkle to
24:34
our family story that I haven't
24:36
told you about yet.
24:38
Right now, fast forward, they
24:41
hit a lost brother.
24:42
This one is more of a whisper than a
24:44
wrinkle that got passed around in
24:47
snippets, and maybe even with
24:49
more shame than Lorenza's actual
24:52
death.
24:52
Now here's where it gets interesting
24:55
and dicey as well. And
24:58
this I can tell you first hand because
25:01
I remember this.
25:02
Sharon, my second cousin. Laura's
25:05
cousin, tells it best because
25:07
she was there when the family actually
25:10
found out about this. It was
25:12
the seventies and Sharon was in her
25:14
parents' kitchen.
25:15
My mother gets a phone call at her house
25:19
and said, there is a man here. It's
25:22
some sort of mental health facility.
25:25
He claims he is your
25:28
uncle, but he's
25:30
very He's not
25:33
normal, he's having problems mental
25:35
health issues.
25:36
Sharon's mother Rose gets
25:38
a call from a hospital saying that her
25:40
uncle Joseph, her father Santo's
25:43
brother, meaning one of Lorenzo's
25:46
other sons, is at the hospital
25:48
and needs to get picked up.
25:50
So they asked my mother if
25:52
she would be willing to go get him.
25:55
As Sharon remembers, they go
25:57
get him and.
25:58
They brought him to my house.
26:00
No one has heard of this guy for years,
26:03
maybe even decades. She had
26:05
no idea who he was. And
26:08
he tells his version of the story,
26:10
and this.
26:11
Is honestly all I remember.
26:13
He claims that following his mother,
26:15
Lorenza's murder, he and
26:18
his brothers, who were back in America, drew
26:20
straws for who would return
26:23
to Sicily and avenge her
26:25
death. And he claims that
26:27
he was the one who drew the short straw
26:30
and went back and murdered whoever
26:33
killed his mother.
26:34
And he was the brother that supposedly
26:36
went back and killed the black
26:38
hand.
26:39
All I know is he ran in the head.
26:42
Mm hmm.
26:43
I remember hearing Diddy was hiding
26:46
in Italy, running in the Woods, striving
26:48
to survive in Sicily.
26:51
He was like on the lamb
26:53
for his whole life, right,
26:56
don't know when he came or how we
26:58
came to this country.
27:00
It sounds like a mob movie, but
27:03
this guy really did re emerge
27:05
in their lives in the seventies,
27:08
and Sharon was there.
27:09
And honestly, Joe, I don't know what
27:12
happened after that. I
27:14
don't I don't know what
27:16
happened. I don't know if he disappeared again or
27:19
he went back in the hospital. I don't
27:22
know.
27:25
I don't know either. And this is
27:27
where the idea of a vendetta gets
27:29
turned up to eleven. I
27:32
mean, it's almost too cinematic for me. Look,
27:34
I am a storyteller and I am a novelist, but like,
27:37
I don't know if I were to write this shit. But
27:40
here we are in the town
27:43
where I was told that she was killed, and
27:46
now it seems like maybe it's even
27:48
shaping up to be a double
27:51
homicide. So maybe
27:54
the part about this lost brother going
27:57
back to avenge or death, maybe
28:00
that's true too.
28:01
Yeah, was he just unwell? Did he make it up because
28:04
he was crazy?
28:05
My cousin Laura again.
28:06
Actually, so this is how our aunts were. They
28:09
didn't even talk about that, even
28:13
when you know they were telling the stories. I think
28:15
it was like the very very end of Anna's
28:18
life and somebody brought it up
28:20
and I said, what are you talking about? And
28:23
I remember Anana saying, Okay, she's old enough. We
28:25
could probably tell him now because they didn't
28:27
even talk about that aspect
28:30
of it.
28:41
Mm hmmmm.
28:51
This podcast is we're going to figure it out.
28:53
We met a gentleman and Trapta,
28:57
and he said, I told him the reason
28:59
that we coming here today, and he said, let
29:02
it alone.
29:02
There's so mafia.
29:04
He said, you just need to let it alone.
29:08
All right, Okay, all
29:11
right, so yeah, yeah,
29:13
he's just like, you don't need done. Yeah, you don't need to
29:15
scrape at old wounds.
29:16
There's still there's still mafia out there. You just
29:19
need to let it alone.
29:23
Yeah, maybe I should let it go, Let
29:26
the sleeping dogs lie, let
29:28
the wounds heal. Yeah,
29:33
but I'm not going to next
29:36
time on the Sicilian inheritance.
29:38
Oh, I don't think we did come in on that.
29:39
We're going to the scene of the crime.
29:41
We're searching, all right. So now now we're
29:43
searching for the spot where she was
29:45
murdered. Senior Grotto
29:47
was very specific about where it was.
29:49
What did what did? Detail by detail?
29:52
So what did he tell us.
29:53
Tell about this place where there's
29:55
this fountain kind of found somewhere the
29:58
caddles horses is five.
30:01
Kilometers outside of side.
30:03
What do you think they were doing out here?
30:06
Was this the farm had been out here? Well, that's what
30:08
I want to know.
30:09
Do you think that was her land?
30:11
Oh?
30:11
My god?
30:11
If she was killed on the land, then
30:14
there's a house down there. I feel like
30:16
this is the part in Cereal where they go to
30:18
Best Buy.
30:39
The Sicilian Inheritance is a Kaleidoscope
30:41
production in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
30:44
The series is produced by Jen Kinney, Kate
30:47
Osborne, Dara Potts and
30:49
me Joe Piazza, with key help
30:51
from Laura Lee Watson of Digging Up Your Roots
30:53
in the Boot and Chiro Grillow of Sicily
30:56
Roots. Many thanks to Julia
30:58
Parravuccini and Theancestry
31:00
dot com research department. You can
31:02
get your copy of The Sicilian Inheritance the
31:05
novel right now at Truly
31:07
anywhere that you get your books, anywhere
31:10
you get your books. It's got the same name as
31:12
the podcast, but with more food,
31:14
wine and sucks. Also, do
31:16
not forget to get a taste of Sicily in
31:19
the form of Delicious Sicilian olive
31:21
oil at Cardena's tap room. Make
31:23
sure to check out our show notes for a link to
31:25
buy it, or if you find yourself
31:28
in Philly just stop by. Our
31:30
executive producers are Kate Osbourne,
31:32
Mangesh Tatikador, Costas
31:35
Linos, and Oz Walloshan.
31:38
From iHeart, executive producers are
31:40
Katrina Norvell and Nikki
31:42
Etour. We also want to thank Will
31:44
Pearson, Connell Burn, Bob
31:46
Pittman, and John Marynapolis
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