0:02

Welcome to The Silent Why

0:02

podcast.

0:04

That's my line.

0:05

You're bossy Claire.

0:07

And I'm Chris. And today

0:07

we thought we'd share some

0:11

reflections about our time with

0:11

London, which happened a couple

0:15

of weeks ago, when we went down

0:15

to the capital city, to the

0:18

podcast show, which is the new

0:18

international festival for the

0:22

business of podcasting.

0:23

I think we have to get

0:23

past our sort of Joey from

0:27

Friends, "London, baby!" every

0:27

time we go to London, or do

0:31

something about London, we usually are coming up with "London, baby!"

0:33

I don't know that we ever need to get over that.

0:35

We were there for two

0:35

days. This was an event taking

0:38

place in the Business Design

0:38

Centre, which is in Islington.

0:42

While we're there threw in some

0:42

other London bits, some tourist

0:44

stuff, because we're like, the

0:44

country mouse visiting the town

0:47

mouse, aren't we? And suddenly,

0:47

everything like, our eyes are

0:50

opened wide at the palaces and

0:52

The big city.

0:53

...buildings and all this

0:53

sort of stuff. We went to the

0:56

West End as well took in a show.

0:57

We did very exciting.

0:57

Very fancy.

1:01

It was wedding anniversary fancy.

1:03

It was wedding anniversary fancy.

1:04

17 years!

1:04

Yeah, I know. It's frightening.

1:06

And still in love.

1:06

Yeah.

1:09

When we're not podcasting!

1:10

And as people might be aware, we are podcasters. So we qualified to go to The Podcast

1:12

Show. So we've been podcasting

1:14

for about eight months now, but

1:14

planning for a lot longer than

1:17

that. So I'm gonna say, well

1:17

over a year, I was very keen to

1:21

attend the podcast show when I

1:21

heard that it was happening in

1:23

London, because most of the

1:23

podcast shows that I watch or

1:26

attend virtually, are in the US.

1:26

So I was really keen when I

1:31

heard on PodNews, that there was

1:31

going to be a show in the UK and

1:35

I booked some tickets. And I

1:35

think I sort of reluctantly took

1:39

you along, not reluctant to take

1:39

you, just reluctant to... I

1:43

think you were a little bit

1:43

reluctant to join me.

1:45

Aw! There was a noise

1:45

from my facial expression, as

1:48

you said that, you've said that

1:48

a few times, you've sort of

1:51

insinuated that I was reluctant

1:51

to go with you.

1:54

I think it's because

1:54

generally you show more

1:56

excitement if I bake chocolate

1:56

cake than when I told you we

1:59

were going to The Podcast Show.

1:59

So if I gauge it on that

2:02

reaction, I wouldn't have said

2:02

you were ecstatic about it or as

2:06

excited as I was.

2:06

Yeah, no, I, I need, I

2:06

need time to process these

2:11

things. In fact, when you when

2:11

you raised it with me, you sent

2:15

me a message and said can you

2:15

just book this week off work

2:19

out. I'll talk about why later.

2:19

And I remember then looking at

2:23

my work annual leave to see if I

2:23

had the time. Of course, I did

2:27

have the time. And then thought

2:27

right, what's that? And I jumped

2:31

on onto a very popular internet

2:31

search engine. And...

2:35

You can say Google!

2:36

...looked up that week.

2:36

And sure enough, I was like,

2:39

that's what she's going for a

2:39

podcast festival. So yeah, but I

2:44

jumped in.

2:45

No you did, yep, no you

2:45

did come along.

2:49

What just to carry the

2:49

bags?! Thanks, very much.

2:53

But no, yeah, we will. I

2:53

think by the time it was it was

2:55

upon us, you were excited about

2:55

it. But anyway, we went. And it

3:00

was two days of full on

3:00

conference attending

3:04

Oh so many sessions. And

3:04

you made me take notes.

3:08

Of course I did, I

3:08

couldn't be in all the sessions!

3:10

You threaten me with your

3:10

no one can take as many notes as

3:13

you do. And you said we've got

3:13

to split up to try and make sure

3:17

we cover as much ground as

3:17

possible, and you better take

3:19

notes.

3:19

Yeah.

3:20

Oh, my life haven't

3:20

written that much since school.

3:23

It'll do you good, and you had a new tablet to do it on anyway, so you love that kind of

3:25

stuff!

3:26

Oh fancy pants!

3:28

Yeah, so we did, we did split up a lot, actually, because there were so many

3:29

sessions to get around even a

3:33

tiny sliver of it, we had to

3:33

sort of tag team and then come

3:36

back together again, and then

3:36

split up again. And everything

3:39

started at a different time,

3:39

which was really confusing. So

3:41

you never knew what you were

3:41

missing, or what you're gonna go

3:44

in and out of. Anyway, it was

3:44

very busy, there was over 5000

3:47

people there apparently over the

3:47

two days. So that's encouraging.

3:50

But I thought that because we

3:50

would do this session of just

3:53

feeding back on what we learnt,

3:53

what we took from it, what we

3:56

experienced in London, it would

3:56

be good to do that in a way that

3:59

kind of links it in a little bit

3:59

to our podcast subject, which is

4:02

loss and grief.

4:03

Yeah, that's what you get

4:03

every time you listen,

4:06

generally. In fact, one of our

4:06

good friends John, we saw last

4:09

weekend, said 'Great job, guys.

4:09

I can't listen. It's too

4:12

depressing.' We're like 'Yeah,

4:12

yeah, we understand' to some

4:15

it's a bit too depressing. But

4:15

we try and find, you know, as

4:19

you'll hear, we find the

4:19

positives and the hope and the

4:22

joy.

4:23

My top tip probably just

4:23

to listen to the last 15 or 20

4:26

minutes of any episode.

4:27

Don't say that!

4:30

But that would work

4:31

Do not fast forward to

4:31

the last 15-20 minutes, thank

4:33

you.

4:33

You'd get a much more

4:33

upbeat, general podcast

4:36

listening, but yes, we are aware

4:36

it's not for everybody, our

4:38

subject, but I am aware there's

4:38

a massive need for it still, and

4:43

actually, I've got some stuff to

4:43

feedback from the podcast on

4:45

that subject. But I thought it

4:45

would be good if we could

4:48

roughly link in to our topic of

4:48

loss and grief to keep it

4:52

relevant cuz we don't want to

4:52

throw random stuff on the

4:54

podcast. Let's keep it linked

4:54

in. So all our feedback has to

4:58

be however tentative linked to

4:58

loss or grief. That's your

5:04

challenge, anything you feed

5:04

back, you got to tie it back to

5:06

loss or grief.

5:07

Okay. Good grief.

5:10

Good grief indeed.

5:11

All right. So do you want

5:11

me to go first?

5:13

Yeah, if you look back

5:13

over that week, the whole week,

5:16

all of our experiences, what's

5:16

the thing that stands out the

5:18

most, and then tie it to loss or

5:18

grief.

5:21

So what you said early on

5:21

about, you know, this was our

5:23

first trip to a podcast

5:23

festival, to a show. And there

5:29

was a few people mentioned

5:29

something during that, which was

5:32

really quite obvious. And that's

5:32

this thing called Impostor

5:35

Syndrome. Okay, so I'm sort of

5:35

going in deep at the start.

5:39

Yeah, that's fine.

5:39

That's how we roll, as

5:39

you'll know. And I sort of

5:44

understand that. I don't usually

5:44

feel like an imposter. And I

5:48

didn't really feel like an

5:48

imposter. Others do. But I

5:50

understand more and more, I

5:50

think the older I get, the more

5:53

set in my ways I become. So even

5:53

going to the big city, I think I

5:57

was more aware of, of stuff. So

5:57

I'd almost say, this was like a

6:00

lot of confidence. Like I'm not

6:00

as confident now in my early to

6:04

mid 40s, as I was 20 years ago,

6:04

which no one's going to be

6:06

surprised at. So there we are

6:06

feeling a little bit less

6:11

confident than I normally we're

6:11

in this fairly big world, and

6:14

this podcast show was huge as a

6:14

lot a lot bigger and grander and

6:17

more impressive than many, we're

6:17

imagining, lots of big names

6:21

there, the big sort of traders,

6:21

businesses, talking about the

6:26

spending of millions of pounds.

6:26

And so listening to people talk

6:31

about their podcasts, I think I

6:31

was reassured to a level that

6:34

they were saying similar things

6:34

to what I was, I was

6:38

experiencing myself, even though

6:38

they may have hundreds of

6:41

thousands of people listening to

6:41

their podcast, and they may be

6:44

making tens of thousands of

6:44

pounds or dollars, depending on

6:48

your currency. They still say I

6:48

feel like an imposter. And that

6:52

was quite a common theme. And I

6:52

can understand that because we

6:57

we record this podcast in our

6:57

home in a very familiar

6:59

surrounding where we're very

6:59

comfortable. We know this space

7:02

really well. So to us, you know,

7:02

it's me and you in a room

7:06

chatting and recording it. Yet,

7:06

if somebody's listening to this

7:10

in a car, on a train or

7:10

somewhere else at work, wherever

7:13

it may be, then it may come

7:13

across as being a bit more

7:16

professional than I feel it is.

7:16

I don't know, I'm starting to

7:18

get a bit lost in my ramblings.

7:18

Loss of...

7:22

I'm lost in your

7:22

comments. No, I, I do get the

7:27

imposter thing. I don't know if

7:27

it's because when you own

7:29

something, it's entirely yours.

7:29

So like with writing, I look at

7:32

my books that I've written. And

7:32

admittedly it's not out there or

7:35

published or anything, but I can

7:35

imagine how if that was out

7:38

there, there will be this level

7:38

of 'huh', I got it to a point

7:42

where it's published and people

7:42

want to read it. But I do not

7:44

feel like an author or writer. I

7:44

can't imagine a point when that

7:47

clicks and you suddenly think

7:47

I've done it, I've nailed it, I

7:50

can now put out any books I

7:50

want, and I'm going to be good

7:53

at it. I can see why people

7:53

would constantly be thinking,

7:56

was that a fluke? Have I done

7:56

that one thing that went really

7:59

well, but I can't do it again?

7:59

And I think I did feel about

8:02

that with with the podcast, I

8:02

find it hard to deal to say I'm

8:06

a podcaster because it still

8:06

feels so new. And I know so

8:10

little compared to so many other

8:10

people at conferences like this,

8:14

but at the same time I speak to

8:14

people where I realised I know

8:16

so much compared to others. One

8:16

of the women I heard was on a

8:20

panel with Richard Branson

8:20

coming up soon, and she said I

8:23

still get impostor syndrome,

8:23

like 'what am I doing here?' But

8:26

obviously reached quite a high

8:26

level with what she specialised

8:29

in. So...

8:30

It's a common thing then.

8:30

So how is it something you can

8:33

get over it? Or what does it

8:33

take, without becoming arrogant,

8:37

and having a massive ego, can

8:37

you just be a lovely humble, non

8:42

imposter?

8:43

Yeah, I think you can. I

8:43

think I have heard people, I

8:45

would say it's probably rare to

8:45

have all those qualities, but I

8:48

fully believe you could be

8:48

someone who's very good at what

8:51

they do, and knows they're very

8:51

good at what they do without

8:54

being arrogant and cocky about

8:54

the situation I do believe is

8:58

possible. But I do think it's

8:58

one of those rare things like

9:00

somebody who's incredibly rich,

9:00

but incredibly generous, or you

9:03

know, some of these things that

9:03

they exist, they're just not

9:06

your average reaction to stuff.

9:06

The average reaction to fame and

9:09

success is not humility, but

9:09

there will be people who

9:12

maintain it, or who happen to

9:12

get it in that situation.

9:15

I've gotten to a bit of a

9:15

bad habit because if you with

9:18

Claire and myself making small

9:18

talk with a stranger for the

9:22

first time, when that question

9:22

comes up, 'what do you do?' And

9:25

I got into the habit of looking

9:25

to you with a eager smile on my

9:28

face to see how you answer.

9:29

You have and you just

9:29

throw me right in there. Let's

9:31

see what she's gonna say. Because I want to... And I failed miserably several

9:33

times at the podcast conference.

9:36

I don't think you've, I don't think you've impressed me yet with your confidence.

9:39

I know.

9:40

But I really want you to

9:40

say something like, I'm a writer

9:42

and a podcaster. But instead you

9:42

sort of say 'errrr'

9:46

That's imposter

9:46

syndrome. Like no, no, I can't

9:50

be that. I'm unemployed.

9:53

Yeah, yes. But is that

9:53

because so much of it is linked

9:56

to money?

9:57

Probably yeah.

9:58

If you will, receiving a

9:58

salary for this, would you feel

10:02

released to claim it?

10:03

Yes, because then you

10:03

feel like somebody is validating

10:05

you, someone outside of you is

10:05

saying what you can do and what

10:08

you're capable of doing is worth

10:08

me paying my money to you for.

10:13

Yeah.

10:13

So when nobody's backing

10:13

you up in that when no one's

10:15

published your stuff when

10:15

nobody's said, 'Oh, this is

10:18

amazing' from someone who knows

10:18

what they're doing. I think

10:21

there's something in you that

10:21

just thinks, well, am I? Because

10:24

technically, anyone can do what

10:24

I've done. I mean, maybe not

10:28

everyone could do it, but

10:28

technically, everyone could say

10:30

they've got a book in a drawer

10:30

hasn't been published yet. And

10:32

they've just started their own

10:32

podcast. That's not difficult.

10:35

Whether they could do it well is

10:35

another thing, but everybody

10:37

could do it. So until someone

10:37

comes along, it knows what

10:40

they're talking about and says,

10:40

'I validate you in this, you're

10:43

good at it'. I feel like 'I

10:43

don't know, am I? Am I an

10:47

imposter?' So I can see why,

10:47

however, when people are getting

10:49

paid thousands and millions for

10:49

doing it, and they still feel

10:51

like an impostor. That, to me

10:51

says that it's not that easy to

10:55

shift just because of money. So

10:55

I don't think that's the only

10:57

thing.

10:57

Definitely. And every

10:57

session, pretty much every

10:59

session, I don't think that's

10:59

too much of an exaggeration that

11:02

we were in, and between the two

11:02

of us across those two days of

11:05

the conference in London, we

11:05

must have been our been in

11:11

fifteen sessions?

11:13

A day?

11:14

No no, across the two

11:14

days, oh, I think we did ten

11:16

each day, almost, there must

11:16

been heading twenty sessions

11:18

between us. So in all of those sessions, not

11:19

all of them had sort of a Q&A at

11:23

the end, but those that did,

11:23

you'd have had two common

11:27

questions almost every session,

11:27

which was one, how do I grow my

11:30

audience? And how do I monetize

11:30

my podcast? How can I make money

11:34

from this? Yeah, so the money

11:34

thing is a big deal, isn't it?

11:37

And most of the speakers that

11:37

have been invited to be part of

11:41

the sessions, unsurprisingly,

11:41

were those that have 'made it'

11:45

those that are making lots of

11:45

money, or they are famous in

11:48

their community for it. And

11:48

therefore they have a team of

11:52

people, whether that's six or

11:52

fifteen, that are all helping

11:56

make their podcast product.

11:58

Yeah, I don't think

11:58

people realise quite how many

12:01

people are behind some of the

12:01

best podcasts that people will

12:03

listen to that there's like

12:03

teams of up to twenty people

12:06

behind some podcasts. And that's

12:06

daunting, when it's just us

12:10

doing all our own stuff, we

12:10

don't outsource anything, not

12:13

even social media, the editing,

12:13

everything is done in house,

12:15

which is nice, because we get a

12:15

lot of compliments. That sounds

12:17

professional. So hopefully that

12:17

is the case.

12:20

Yeah, well, I think like

12:20

there was there was one of the

12:22

most popular British podcasts I

12:22

think, is one called Red Handed,

12:26

which is a true crime podcast, a

12:26

couple of friends started that

12:30

up with the two of them. And

12:30

they now have a team of six of

12:33

them? I think five going on six,

12:33

or six going on seven. So they

12:36

imply they're going full time with it, because they're making enough money from it from

12:38

supporters and subscribers. But

12:43

that I find really exciting. I mean, they've been going for about six years, I think we've

12:45

been doing ours for six months

12:48

or give us six years and we'll be millionaires.

12:51

Actually, nobody there

12:51

was a millionaire, even the ones

12:53

with millions ofe and that's

12:53

also something that's quite

12:56

shocking.

12:57

But it's it's I think we

12:57

need to just pause and point out

13:00

as well to you that we're not

13:00

doing this to make money. I

13:04

think that's...

13:05

Well, you might not be!

13:05

Mr I've-Got-A-Job.

13:10

We want to make money

13:10

because we want you to be

13:13

validated to feel like you're

13:13

worth something.

13:16

Yes!

13:16

Because I'm not enough.

13:17

Pay me to make me feel

13:17

good about myself!

13:19

My husband-encouragement,

13:19

it's not enough to make you feel

13:21

worth something. But there are

13:21

costs that we we have with the

13:26

podcasting every month that we

13:26

have to pay for, the use of

13:29

various bits of software and

13:29

recording stuff and hosting it

13:32

so we have costs, it'd be lovely

13:32

to cover those.

13:34

I think one of the

13:34

things about it, the

13:38

monetization thing that was

13:38

interesting was how adverts are

13:41

one of the only short easy ways

13:41

to earn money and cover your

13:45

costs and stuff. So I think that

13:45

is something I'm a lot more open

13:47

to initially I had thought

13:47

putting adverts on the podcast

13:52

would be, like a lot of them

13:52

did, it feels like selling your

13:54

soul to begin with. But if you

13:54

find the right company that you

13:58

endorse personally, and that you

13:58

can really get on board with and

14:01

recommend honestly and

14:01

wholeheartedly. I think there is

14:05

some nice avenues to be had

14:05

through stuff like that. So that

14:08

might be something I'll look at

14:08

further, now I understand it a

14:10

bit more. But one of the things

14:10

I actually had like loss of

14:13

confidence on my list when I was

14:13

thinking through like feedback

14:15

of stuff I'd got from that

14:15

conference and just being

14:18

surprised how unconfident I felt

14:18

in certain situations in

14:22

chatting to people and I don't

14:22

know if that's Covid There might

14:24

be a lot of people feel that way

14:24

when you're suddenly in a room

14:26

with 5,000 people milling around

14:26

you know, when you haven't done

14:29

that for a couple of years is

14:29

daunting for a lot of people and

14:32

I've been out of the workspace

14:32

for a long time so I'm not even

14:34

in big groups at all. So I think

14:34

that was something I noticed but

14:37

I definitely want to build on.

14:39

With that in mind,

14:39

because we before we went you as

14:42

a nice surprise had ordered and

14:42

created some beautiful business

14:46

cards, and then we've got too

14:46

little holders. [laughes] Don't

14:49

swear at me!

14:50

It's because I know what

14:50

you're gonna say!

14:55

No, I was gonna say to

14:55

your credit, you talked about

14:57

loss of confidence and I that's

14:57

where we started with me talking

14:59

about this, but you gave away

14:59

more business cards than I did.

15:02

Yes, I did give away a

15:02

business card! I also had my

15:07

e-business card to hand, not

15:07

that I used it but it was there

15:11

if I needed it.

15:12

To your hand alone.

15:13

Yeah, no, I think to be

15:13

honest, we were so busy with

15:16

stuff, the networking side of

15:16

it, it wasn't a natural, easy

15:20

thing to have done. A lot of

15:20

people think you meeting other

15:22

people they already knew. Unless

15:22

you went and sat next to people

15:25

regularly and then started

15:25

chatting to them, it wasn't the

15:28

networking side of it wasn't as

15:28

easy or as straightforward as

15:32

perhaps imagining, like other

15:32

places I've been to.

15:34

But what also made it I

15:34

think hard in that sense was

15:37

lots of people were with people

15:37

they knew and think certainly

15:41

within the industry, it felt

15:41

like there's a lot of industry

15:43

people there that had met and

15:43

had relationships.

15:46

It's because it was the first one.

15:47

Because they work together.

15:48

First one in the UK. It

15:48

brought people together for the

15:51

first time on English soil in a

15:51

podcasting sense in that way. So

15:55

lots of people like 'oh, we're all going to be in the same room. We're in the same room as

15:57

Spotify and YouTube and Acast

16:00

and Shure' and all these different big names that are in the podcasting world. So it

16:02

became this place to meet and I

16:06

think people who will communicate a lot in the podcasting world via probably

16:08

social media and podcasts and

16:12

chatting and video and audio,

16:12

like kind of stuff suddenly

16:15

could get together in person. So

16:15

I think there was a lot of that

16:17

going on because it was the

16:17

first one. So that made a big

16:20

difference.

16:21

What else did you have on your list?

16:22

Well, one of the things

16:22

I think that that kind of struck

16:24

me most about just the podcast

16:24

bit rather than our time in

16:28

London in general, was about

16:28

how, like both lunch times we

16:33

ended up sitting down to have

16:33

some food, just picking a bench

16:36

somewhere and either having a

16:36

ridiculously overpriced wrap, or

16:41

that time we took cold pizza, we

16:41

snuck it in, because we couldn't

16:44

afford a wrap the second day,

16:44

both times looking back on it,

16:47

we sat next to people or we saw

16:47

somebody who was on their own.

16:51

And not I don't think

16:51

intentional I certainly didn't

16:54

intend it was because you had to

16:54

find space at benches. And we

16:57

happened to find a space both

16:57

days next to somebody who was

17:00

sat on their own or somebody

17:00

that you saw that you knew that

17:02

came over. And I think looking

17:02

back at that, both of those, all

17:07

three of those conversations

17:07

really, were with people that

17:10

instantly connected with our

17:10

podcast topic, even before we

17:14

told them what the podcast topic

17:14

actually was. We spoke to

17:17

someone about childlessness

17:17

actually, we spoke to people

17:20

about childlessness ,about loss

17:20

about like just feeling alone or

17:24

the imposter syndrome. And we

17:24

connected really quickly with

17:27

them. And I think that is just

17:27

how we do it. But looking back,

17:30

I was like, that's fascinating

17:30

that it just reassures me when

17:33

you're talking to people, and

17:33

you're hearing all these talks

17:36

from people who do big podcasts

17:36

that are like comedy, or like I

17:40

went to the one about the guys

17:40

who wrote 'My Dad Wrote A

17:42

Porno', huge podcast, very

17:42

popular, gift of a subject in so

17:46

many ways. I won't go into it.

17:46

But it's just like such an easy

17:49

thing in some ways to sit down

17:49

and develop an idea out of and

17:54

make it something that people

17:54

want to listen to. And you could

17:56

look at ours and think, 'oh,

17:56

gosh, it's a heavy subject to

18:00

try and sell to somebody who's

18:00

sitting next to conference',

18:03

loss, grief, do people really

18:03

want to talk about this? A lot

18:06

of people don't. And like you

18:06

said, we've had people say I

18:09

love the idea, but I just can't

18:09

listen to some of it. It's it's

18:13

heavy. And I think they're

18:13

people who generally wouldn't

18:15

have those conversations in real

18:15

life, either. So you start to

18:18

doubt it a bit. But when I had

18:18

these conversations with people,

18:21

I thought, what are the chances of sitting next to people who will connect with that subject,

18:23

and I think they're probably

18:25

quite high, because everybody

18:25

goes through loss or grief, at

18:29

some point, everybody's got

18:29

something they're carrying, that

18:32

they're struggling with. So I

18:32

think those conversations for me

18:34

were just they were really

18:34

encouraging. They were based

18:36

around loss. And it kind of just

18:36

told me that actually, this is a

18:40

podcast, and it's a subject

18:40

that's needed. It gave me a

18:42

boost and a bit more of an

18:42

encouragement that yeah, it's

18:44

not the easiest sell. And it's

18:44

not something for everybody. But

18:48

there are a lot of people who

18:48

need it and who want to hear it

18:51

and who will get something from

18:51

it, even if it's not now but you

18:54

know, in a few years time when

18:54

they go through something, we

18:56

might be just referring it to a friend who's going through something.

18:59

So how are you relating our lunchtimes with loss?

19:00

Well, all the conversations were about loss. Okay, I thought you were gonna say something like that you'd lost a romantic lunch

19:02

opportunity with your gorgeous

19:10

husband? Over the cold pizza? Yes, that

19:11

was what I was gonna say. That's

19:17

what was coming back round.

19:19

Quiet special connection.

19:21

Quality time at a really

19:21

busy conference, at a crowded

19:24

bench with my husband.

19:25

Yeah, loss of sleep would

19:25

be another one. I mean, we were

19:28

we were staying in this

19:28

wonderful, I mean, you'd found

19:31

this incredible place, there

19:31

can't have been anybody at that

19:34

conference that we're staying

19:34

closer. It's almost like we were

19:36

neighbours to where this

19:36

conference was.

19:39

It was a gem. And I've booked it next year so no trying to nick it, people.

19:42

It was a two room

19:42

apartment, with a lounge kitchen

19:45

dining area and then a bedroom.

19:45

Tiny little place through like a

19:50

terrifying doorway, wasn't it?

19:50

If you imagine a very busy city

19:53

like London or New York

19:53

somewhere, we've just got rows

19:56

of shops and then there's this

19:56

great big iron doorway that's

19:59

just built into the the brick wall.

20:00

Where there's always

20:00

someone hanging around outside

20:02

when you get back.

20:04

We went through this like

20:04

this lock that never opened

20:06

first time, we had to jangle the

20:06

key loads to try and get this

20:10

big old metal door open, and

20:10

then that brought you into this

20:13

little dark hallway that was

20:13

like going back to university

20:16

like a halls of residence that

20:16

needs refurbishment. But then

20:19

you climbed up the stairs into

20:19

this lovely little apartment,

20:22

that was the other side of the

20:22

building from the main road. So

20:24

it was it was quite quiet, and

20:24

then lovely, lovely place. So

20:30

great, booked it for next year.

20:30

So we're obviously, we're both

20:34

getting very excited about next year's conference.

20:35

Excellent.

20:38

But yeah, I think the

20:38

first night was okay, but I

20:41

think I made a couple of

20:41

mistakes, one is two pillows, I

20:44

should have had one. Which I did

20:44

on the third night.

20:47

The ongoing debate everywhere we stay.

20:51

It was two days that were

20:51

just crammed full of noise and

20:54

listening and people and making

20:54

notes and just try and take it

20:58

all in, without much time just

20:58

to stop and process, so I think

21:01

I got into bed and was just my

21:01

head was was wired.

21:04

Even though you were the extrovert wanting to come home and then go out for the evening

21:06

to the cinema or do something

21:08

else.

21:09

Oh, that was day one. Day

21:09

three. I was absolutely

21:12

shattered. Didn't want to go

21:12

out, like, no,

21:14

I was like 'I can't see

21:14

any more people!' It's just so

21:17

busy.

21:17

Yeah. So it took it out

21:17

of me. I think it took me it

21:20

took me 24-48 hours even after I

21:20

got back to recover. And we came

21:23

back on Friday, and Saturday and

21:23

Sunday following that, you know

21:31

we were pretty shattered. Well

21:31

worth it. Lovely place that

21:34

you'd booked, that worked really well.

21:36

And we got to go on the

21:36

new Elizabeth Line the tube that

21:39

opened that week. That was

21:39

exciting.

21:42

Yeah, that was that was

21:42

nice to see a new tube line

21:45

And loss of people

21:45

because when we went on it was

21:48

pretty much completely empty. It

21:48

was amazing.

21:51

Good one. Just an introvert's dream.

21:53

It was. Honestly, if I

21:53

could travel everywhere on that

21:55

tube line that that many people

21:55

on it all the time. I'd just

21:58

live down there. And I'm not a

21:58

fan of being an underground too

22:01

long.

22:01

You think this is

22:01

something we're just making up

22:03

because we're in central London,

22:03

but these are tube stations

22:07

where literally you were filming

22:07

at one stage and I just couldn't

22:10

make a sound because there

22:10

wasn't any noise. There were

22:13

other people there, but it was

22:13

it was vast, and they were sort

22:16

of far far away.

22:16

There was only about five people there.

22:18

The sound of the actual

22:18

tube the carriages was behind

22:21

the screen because then you sort

22:21

of when the train stops the

22:24

doors of the train open behind

22:24

other electric doors that open

22:27

so you go through almost two

22:27

sets of doors to get under. So

22:30

that was shut away. So the noise

22:30

of the actual train tunnels was

22:33

It was air conditioned. was shut away.

22:34

Air conditioned so it was

22:34

cool. Big space, well lit,

22:36

modern.

22:37

And clean, because it

22:37

was brand new. It was just the

22:39

ideal way to travel.

22:40

We did like that, we put

22:40

some videos on social media.

22:42

And then when we went back on the other direction it was packed so we were very lucky

22:44

we got that slot when it was

22:48

empty. Yeah, that's not always

22:48

the case.

22:50

But we experienced packed

22:50

tubes in London, that wasn't

22:53

packed.

22:53

It wasn't as bad as the other packed one.

22:55

I was literally chewing on somebody's armpits and was like, this is the first time in

22:56

two years that I've been this

22:59

close to a stranger.

23:00

It's the only time my

23:00

mind goes to a sort of a 'what

23:03

if I'm stuck here' type place,

23:03

where you're just like

23:06

underground, what feels like

23:06

miles when you go down those

23:09

flippin' escalators are like

23:09

going over a cliff. And then

23:12

you're just crammed in like

23:12

literally like sardines in a

23:15

tin.

23:15

She won't like me telling

23:15

you this but most times in fact,

23:18

every time that we went into

23:18

a... Claire was like; 'is this a

23:22

big one or a small one?' And she

23:22

was referring to the escalator,

23:25

we're about to go down.

23:26

Because I couldn't see you, you were in front of me and you go over the edge and I

23:27

wouldn't have any kind of

23:30

context of whether it was a massive one.

23:31

She wasn't terrified. But if you'd seen us you'd have seen, Claire was hiding, well

23:33

she was positioning herself

23:36

behind me every time we went

23:36

over the edge, like that roller

23:39

coaster she said. So sometimes

23:39

with some of the London tube

23:42

escalators when they go down,

23:42

you go over the edge and then

23:44

suddenly realise 'Oh my word,

23:44

this is a long escalator and you

23:46

can see quite far down!'

23:47

My brain just goes to

23:47

'what if I trip?' 'What if I

23:50

move forward a foot and I can't

23:50

stop myself?' I'm just literally

23:53

going to roll to my death on

23:53

metal stairs in front of

23:56

hundreds of Londoners, it's one

23:56

of the worst ways to go.

24:00

When you say 'roll to your death', do you mean you'll fall a few steps and then just,

24:01

in a heap will just slowly ride

24:05

down?!

24:05

No, no. It's so it looks

24:05

like it's so steep. The reality

24:09

is you'd just hit the next person down, they would hit the next person down and you just

24:11

have this big domino effect. But

24:14

you don't want to be the person

24:14

at the top of that that sent

24:16

everyone else flying. You're not

24:16

going to be popular and I don't

24:19

think people take kindly to...

24:20

Well, to quote Joey from

24:20

Friend's again: 'London, baby!'

24:25

And the first three or

24:25

four tube trips were actually

24:27

really exciting. It was only

24:27

after four, five, six, I was

24:30

like 'this is why I don't live

24:30

in London'. I like it briefly

24:33

but I could not do this from my

24:33

daily commute.

24:36

And I was... she, Claire,

24:36

swore at me and she called me a

24:41

nasty word. Because I was using

24:41

a, I was using my smartwatch,

24:46

which I don't usually wear out,

24:46

I got it mainly for sort of

24:49

sport and activity.

24:49

It's creeping into daily life.

24:51

Well not really but my

24:51

normal standard battery watch

24:56

was out of battery and I was

24:56

waiting for a battery to arrive

24:58

in the post and it didn't arrive

24:58

so I took my smartwatch. And

25:00

then while I was there I thought

25:00

stroke of luck I can just tap my

25:03

watch on the tube payment pad,

25:03

like the contactless pad to get

25:08

through the gate, which worked

25:08

eight out of ten times. But

25:11

there were a few times where it

25:11

didn't work and I was just sort

25:13

of hovering with my wrist...

25:14

Yeah cos I was the wife

25:14

of the person who was stuck the

25:17

other side tapping his watch on the thing!

25:18

And you said, what did

25:18

you call you me? After, I think

25:21

you'd run out of patience I think you called me a 'watch ******!' I was shocked. We can't

25:23

make this podcast explicit, we

25:31

can't put naughty language in it, because we want it in all

25:33

It was just a little bit how you looked. countries.

25:34

Yes. Yes. So, mean!

25:34

Anyway, enough of the tube

25:40

experience.

25:40

It's London! It brings out the bad, it brings out the Londoner in me!

25:43

Well, this is, this is

25:43

our, we haven't been tourists in

25:46

London for a long time. So we

25:46

were giddy with the podcast

25:48

conference, we were shattered

25:48

because of the loss of sleep.

25:50

And it's quite nostalgic

25:50

for me, there's something about

25:52

it, you know, I went to London,

25:52

quite a bit with an Auntie and

25:57

I've been with my parents. And

25:57

so doing things around London as

26:00

a child was something I feel

26:00

like I did quite a bit, I saw so

26:03

many shows and all kinds of

26:03

stuff. There's something really

26:06

lovely and nostalgic about it,

26:06

but the same time I'm aware of

26:09

my age, and the fact that

26:09

suddenly a giant escalator feels

26:14

a little bit scarier than it

26:14

used to! They move so fast

26:18

and...

26:19

Don't take us back to the

26:19

escalator we've moved on!

26:23

Something I do want to

26:23

say. I know for a fact that even

26:25

though I touched the handle of

26:25

the escalator, which I didn't

26:27

want to, it moves faster than

26:27

your feet. And that's

26:30

frightening. Because my hand got

26:30

further and further and further

26:32

forwards. I said to you on point, you probably weren't listening, you were probably

26:34

looking at your watch!

26:36

Ah ok, so the speed of

26:36

the handrail is slightly faster

26:38

than the speed of the escalator itself.

26:40

Yeah.

26:41

Right. Oh, I haven't twigged that. Which is frightening for old

26:42

people when you're going over those big things, and they're

26:44

moving fast. You mentioned show, and the

26:46

nostalga and we went to see a

26:49

show. There's a lot of loss in

26:49

the show that we went to see,

26:52

which is incredible.

26:52

We went to see a show that it's probably based 100% around loss. So many losses.

26:57

Yeah, it feels very 2019

26:57

to say we went to see Hamilton

27:01

on stage.

27:02

We had seen it on

27:02

Disney+, but not, yeah, it was

27:05

the first time in the flesh. So

27:05

we were very excited and a bit

27:08

nervous because having only seen

27:08

the Broadway one on TV, we're

27:10

wondering if it would still live

27:10

up to the the expert heights.

27:13

Particularly as we often

27:13

fall out about I say, right, I'm

27:16

gonna go with really low

27:16

expectations. But whether it

27:19

worked or not, it certainly did,

27:19

was effective, I don't know if

27:22

it did work. But it was a

27:22

brilliant show. It was

27:24

incredible. I was I was so happy

27:24

to have seen it. And it was it

27:28

was far better than I imagined.

27:30

It was really good. It

27:30

was just I think it's one of

27:33

those all around, I mean, we

27:33

love musicals, it's pretty much

27:36

100% musical, and there's hardly

27:36

any speech in it at all. It's

27:39

funny. It's heartbreaking. It's,

27:39

you know, emotional, you get

27:45

tearful, you're laughing.

27:45

There's such a range of

27:48

emotions. It was just absolutely

27:48

brilliant. I loved it. And it to

27:51

me it sealed again, how

27:51

important it is to write and

27:55

have conversations around these

27:55

big topics. I mean, it deals

27:58

with huge areas of loss and

27:58

grief and murder, loss of a

28:02

child and reputations and

28:02

countries at war. There's so

28:07

much going on in it. And they're

28:07

such big topics that to write

28:10

something like that so

28:10

eloquently. I'm just like, super

28:13

jealous of Lin-Manuel's brain, I

28:13

just think, to have a brain that

28:18

works that way. And to produce

28:18

something like that, however

28:21

long it took him. just

28:21

phenomenal. It's well worth

28:24

every every penny it earns. And

28:24

it's just yeah, a brilliant

28:27

piece of art.

28:28

Just to highlight because

28:28

I'm you know, neither of us are

28:32

huge on history expertise. But

28:32

I'm guessing a lot of people

28:35

have learned about the American

28:35

history because of Hamilton.

28:38

I mean, I didn't know about any of that, really.

28:40

So the key figure,

28:40

Alexander Hamilton, just some of

28:42

the losses; immigrant, parent

28:42

died at an early age, found

28:46

himself in America...

28:47

A lot of spoilers here,

28:47

by the way, but it's a history

28:50

story anyway.

28:50

Look at the character of

28:50

Alexander Hamilton as a key

28:53

figure through a war, but then

28:53

on from that, to become this key

29:01

figure in the political setup

29:01

and the Constitution, setting up

29:05

the Constitution in American and

29:05

working with almost like a right

29:08

hand man for Thomas Jefferson,

29:08

no, George Washington, rather.

29:12

I knew we shouldn't have embarked on the history.

29:13

But along the way,

29:13

there's sort of first loves,

29:18

loss of identity, home.

29:18

Grieving. I think one

29:18

of the most powerful things for

29:20

There was a particular song as

29:20

well, that was one of the

29:21

me was just the idea that I said

29:21

to you at the end, it finishes

29:24

with this beautiful song and

29:24

Eliza, his wife is sort of

29:27

saying 'who tells your story?'

29:27

And that it finishes on the

29:30

question, 'who tells your, who's

29:30

going to tell your story?'

29:33

basically, and I just thought

29:33

that for me was quite a lovely

29:37

moment because I felt like

29:37

that's what our podcast is

29:39

about. I think I said to you on

29:39

the way home, 'I love that we

29:43

can do that, we can we can tell

29:43

people's stories', we can be the

29:46

one that actually helps other

29:46

people and gives them a platform

29:49

to tell their story because the

29:49

story of Hamilton is loss and

29:53

sadness and grief and all the

29:53

depressing things people don't

29:56

like to listen to sometimes on

29:56

our podcast, that's what it is

29:59

about, and it's been put forward

29:59

and his way of like to give

30:02

people hope and to give people

30:02

motivation. And I think that's

30:05

what happens generally, when you

30:05

connect with people on their

30:07

probably the tear jerker's or

30:07

the one that makes you the most

30:09

level, a depth of where they are

30:09

with loss and things, it kind

30:12

of, it allows them to feel heard

30:12

and seen, it makes them into

30:15

better people, and it brings

30:15

them forward into the people

30:18

that smile and have joy again,

30:18

and hope again, it's so easy to

30:21

think all we need to do is just

30:21

give people hope and joy and a

30:25

smile, and that will make them

30:25

feel better. But actually, you

30:28

know, the conversations I'm

30:28

chatting to people about, trying

30:31

to make people smile in their

30:31

grief, not the first thing, they

30:34

want to be heard and kind of

30:34

seen first. And then they're

30:37

more open to kind of the next

30:37

step in the journey. So I like

30:41

to think that's how we help

30:41

people along.

30:48

emotional, really related to

30:48

something we've covered quite a

30:53

lot in this podcast was about

30:53

imagination, that several

30:56

episodes, there was this

30:56

recurring theme of individuals

31:00

that we've spoken to saying we

31:00

don't like it when somebody

31:02

says, 'I can't imagine' there's

31:02

this disconnect when you say, 'I

31:05

can't imagine, 'I can't imagine what that's like', even though you're trying to be kind, it

31:07

actually almost has an adverse

31:09

effect. And there was a

31:09

particular song, which was the

31:12

sort of teary moment that you thought this is going to be the one that's going to get to you

31:14

the most Hmm love that song.

31:16

And bring, bring the tears,

31:17

Quiet Uptown.

31:18

And words in that, so

31:18

there's been this, there's been

31:21

a couple of losses that have

31:21

come between the marriage of

31:24

Alexander and Eliza Hamilton.

31:24

And this is the moment where

31:28

she's taking him back, and she's

31:28

forgiving him, and so the song

31:32

sort of punctuates with,

31:32

forgiveness. And then 'can you

31:35

imagine?', like, can you imagine

31:35

what that took, to do that? And

31:39

I just thought, yes, it's nice

31:39

to hear it done that way, rather

31:41

than 'we can't imagine,

31:41

forgiveness'. I thought, yeah,

31:44

that that relates to our

31:44

podcast.

31:47

It does. Yeah. One of the things that's really interesting in that song is they

31:49

say quite a lot; 'they are going

31:53

through the unimaginablet.

31:53

Relating to the loss of a child.

31:57

Yeah.

31:57

Which is something we've

31:57

heard, people don't like. I've

32:04

always been quite a stickler

32:04

for, for words, but in a way

32:07

that every word for me is valid.

32:07

I don't like it when people say,

32:11

'don't use that word', or 'I

32:11

don't use that word', 'I don't

32:14

like that word', because you

32:14

can't just not like a word, a

32:17

word has a meaning, and it's

32:17

there for a reason, you know, in

32:20

my opinion. So to kind of just

32:20

throw out the word imaginable

32:25

and unimaginable, just because

32:25

someone doesn't like it being

32:28

said about that situation, I

32:28

don't really like. So I love

32:32

that at the same time, we can

32:32

have this phrase that we've been

32:35

talking about and discussing, I

32:35

can't imagine that it's not

32:38

always appropriate to use in

32:38

grief, and I get that. But the

32:41

fact that someone also can, in

32:41

kind of song, describe this

32:45

situation, the same situation as

32:45

'they're going through the

32:48

unimaginable' - I love that as

32:48

well. And it's a really good

32:52

example for me of being able to

32:52

take both things, and you can

32:55

hold them both intention. Don't

32:55

throw out one word, because of

32:58

how someone you know, a few

32:58

people feel about it, you can

33:01

still use it in the same

33:01

context. And it'd be really

33:04

beautiful as part of that song.

33:04

So I don't know if that makes

33:07

any sense. But for me, I think

33:07

it's just a lovely way of being

33:10

able to show you know what, this

33:10

is somebody describing this

33:13

grief, and that's how they're phrasing it, and this is someone going through it and saying this

33:15

is how they're describing it,

33:17

and it's completely different.

33:19

Yeah, it's talking about the beauty and power of language, I think and how, you

33:20

know, we shouldn't just limit

33:24

words to one or two uses that

33:24

can be different context.

33:27

Words have so many different meanings.

33:29

So many layers for words.

33:30

So many different different things. Just because you don't like them used in one

33:32

situation, don't throw them out

33:36

across the board.

33:37

Before we become a

33:37

theatre review podcast.

33:40

Yes.

33:41

Any of the elements of

33:41

the few days in London, that are

33:45

worth sharing?

33:46

Yes. One of the things,

33:46

if had to look at that week and

33:50

think about loss, and what jumps

33:50

out to me about our loss

33:53

subject, the main thing would

33:53

have been, so in London, we've

33:57

got a long weekend in the UK,

33:57

Bank Holiday weekend for the

34:00

Queen's Jubilee, which is

34:00

celebrating 70 years of her as a

34:04

monarch. And she's the first

34:04

ever British monarch to do that.

34:07

So it's a big deal. And it's her

34:07

Platinum Jubilee. And in London,

34:12

they've been preparing for this

34:12

for weeks. So when we went to

34:15

look at Buckingham Palace, which

34:15

we wanted to get a glimpse at,

34:17

because we happen to be nearby,

34:17

we couldn't get anywhere near

34:19

it, because they've shut the whole roads around there for about a month to prepare to pull

34:21

these seats up and stadiums. And

34:25

when we stood in Horseguards

34:25

parade, we stopped for a minute

34:28

just to look around because it

34:28

was just quiet with a few

34:31

tourists. And we knew that this

34:31

time in the following week, it

34:33

was going to be packed with

34:33

loads of soldiers and guards and

34:37

regiments all performing and

34:37

part of these big celebrations.

34:40

So I think the thing that hit me

34:40

the most when it came to loss

34:43

was when we were standing on The

34:43

Mall looking down at Buckingham

34:46

Palace and we could just see it

34:46

at the end. And I think I said

34:50

to you, I wonder what the Queen

34:50

thinks when she looks out of a

34:53

window and sees all this

34:53

planning going on for this big

34:56

event, and yet she's facing it

34:56

all without her husband who he

35:00

was married to for 70 years,

35:00

over 70 years, and I think

35:04

that's that, for me was the

35:04

biggest sort of thinking about

35:08

loss. while we're in London,

35:08

what a massive thing to go

35:11

through without a partner that

35:11

you've had, you know, I mean, he

35:14

died at just over a year ago,

35:14

but as we know, that's the kind

35:18

of grief it doesn't go away that

35:18

easily and to be doing all that

35:20

going out there at the age of

35:20

96, facing that on your own

35:24

without that partner there. I'd

35:24

imagine that's a really hard

35:27

thing to go through. So I think

35:27

when I think of loss and grief,

35:29

it was the Queen that I was kind

35:29

of thinking about when when we

35:32

were looking at everything that

35:32

was happening. And you know,

35:35

underneath that nice hat, what,

35:35

what is actually going on in her

35:40

head?

35:40

Oh, yeah, yeah, no one,

35:40

well does anyone know?

35:43

No one will know

35:44

Probably not. Well, if

35:44

somebody from Buckingham Palace

35:47

is listening to this podcast,

35:47

then we would love to invite Her

35:51

Majesty the Queen on as a guest

35:51

of The Silent Way. We'd love to

35:56

speak about the loss of Philip.

35:56

But more chance Lin-Manuel

35:59

Miranda will write a musical

35:59

about you riding a subway

36:02

I think she's gonna remain the

36:02

silent queen. The Silent Q.

36:03

It works. Yeah, okay. Certainly,

36:03

I think going back to London and

36:03

escalator. just being in this vast

36:14

beautiful city, loads of space,

36:17

loads of diversity of spaces,

36:17

Green Park, and big city and

36:22

shops and palaces and whatever

36:22

else. You know, it just gives me

36:26

a fresh perspective of being in

36:26

that world, because it's a very

36:29

different world from where we

36:29

live, and we're only what, two

36:32

and a half hours away on a train.

36:34

And we saw brand new

36:34

flats in the Old War Offices

36:37

that face almost onto

36:37

Horseguard's Parade that were

36:41

selling for £12 million. That is

36:41

a different world!

36:44

You found a price for them? Found them on the website today.

36:46

12 million.

36:49

Can we afford?

36:50

Er no. Well, it depends

36:50

if I monetize the podcast,

36:53

If you buy Claire a

36:53

coffee.com. Yeah, you need to

37:02

set up a website like buy me a London mansion.com.

37:04

Buy me a London flat.com.

37:05

Yeah, just one subscriber

37:05

would be great for that, thank

37:08

you, we'd appreciate that.

37:09

I don't even think I could live in the middle of London.

37:12

Phenomenal money.

37:13

Incredible.

37:17

Recently, though,you may

37:17

have you may have seen story in

37:23

Britain recently of the sort of biggest amount won on the lottery just undoing a scratch

37:25

card. And this couple from the

37:30

same county where we live in

37:30

Gloucestershire actually, have

37:33

won £184 million, £184 million,

37:33

and...

37:39

They could buy one of those!

37:40

Can you imagine speaking

37:40

to them as podcast guests? It'll

37:43

be too early to know what they

37:43

lose as a result of that

37:46

absolute windfall. But anyway,

37:46

that's a different subject for a

37:50

different day.

37:51

But if they're listening, www.buymeacoffee.com/thesilentwhy.

37:54

Well tried. Okay,

37:54

anything else to cover from our

37:58

couple of days?

37:59

I just I really enjoyed

37:59

it. And I would reiterate for

38:02

those that are listening, who

38:02

are going through anything, you

38:05

know, grief-wise loss-wise,

38:05

childlessness, for me it just

38:09

feels really healthy to get away

38:09

to get away from the day-to-day

38:13

life. It just felt healthy., it

38:13

felt diverse, it felt busy it

38:17

gave me...

38:18

It was inspiring wasnt' it?

38:19

It gave me context, but

38:19

it just helped me you know, you

38:22

know, all podcast stuff aside,

38:22

it just helped as a, as a

38:25

childless female who can quite

38:25

often get caught up in the 'this

38:28

is what I don't have', 'I don't

38:28

fit in this box', 'this isn't

38:31

really working out', 'this is

38:31

tricky', whatever. To get away

38:36

and focus on something I really

38:36

enjoy like podcasting and put

38:39

everything else aside and not

38:39

worry about whether stuff for me

38:42

just it feels really healthy in

38:42

the same way we've said about

38:44

holidays in the past, they help

38:44

us process and work through

38:46

things. So I would really

38:46

encourage people; don't get

38:49

stuck in your ways and just sit

38:49

at home with stuff if you're

38:51

struggling with things, get

38:51

away, get some perspective. See

38:53

some other people, even just

38:53

people watching, there's

38:57

something about it that just

38:57

makes you realise you're not

38:59

alone. Other people have got

38:59

their issues, they've got their

39:01

problems, and everything's

39:01

probably not as big as it feels

39:03

when you're in your own four

39:03

walls. So for me, it was just

39:06

really, really healthy.

39:11

That's encouraging. That's why we're clearly going back again next year.

39:14

We should go to more. In fact, there's a podcast conference in America in August.

39:20

We need a few more

39:20

subscribers for that to happen.

39:25

www.buymeacoffee.com/thesilentwhy

39:26

Right. Okay. Well, I

39:26

think we're done on that

39:30

subject, aren't we?

39:31

If you say so.

39:31

We appreciate your

39:31

company. It was a bit different

39:34

this episode, but hopefully you

39:34

found it interesting in some

39:36

And I one thing I do

39:36

just want to point out we've

39:36

way. spoken to a few people and told

39:39

them it's quite hard work

39:41

podcasting together. Nobody

39:41

seems to have realised that we

39:44

often fall out before you record

39:44

these episodes. They say you'd

39:47

never notice. So that's a win.

39:50

We won't speak again for 24 hours after this.

39:52

No, at least.

39:53

Because you called me a 'Watch *******'. [laughes]. Breaking news by the way, well

39:58

it's not breaking news anymore,

40:01

because it's something we discovered about an hour ago, that we've been heard on nearly

40:03

every continent of the world.

40:06

Yes, very exciting.

40:08

Six continents of the

40:08

world, not in Antarctica,

40:11

there's probably just a lot of

40:11

white noise in Antarctica

40:13

Because of the snow?

40:14

Yes. So thank you for

40:14

joining us in this very strange

40:19

episode. Even if you're not in

40:19

Antarctica, we really appreciate

40:23

your support in spreading the

40:23

word, we're especially fond of

40:26

you. And maybe you know someone

40:26

that's gone through a particular

40:30

loss that we've covered so far

40:30

in our mission to explore 101

40:33

different types of loss, maybe

40:33

you know someone whose marriage

40:36

has broken down, or they've lost

40:36

a loved one, or a physical sort

40:40

of body part, a the loss there.

40:40

And you could share with them

40:43

one of the episodes that we've

40:43

done already in the first twenty

40:46

or so that we've done, that'll

40:46

be the biggest way to support us

40:49

really, word of mouth is key for

40:49

us in podcasting.

40:52

I think the conference

40:52

confirmed that, again, it's one

40:54

of THE ways of spreading the

40:54

word for podcasting. So yes,

40:57

please tell other people about

40:57

us. And if you want to see our

41:01

guests, you can actually do that

41:01

on our social media. And I'm

41:04

becoming increasingly aware that

41:04

a lot of people listen to us,

41:07

which is fantastic. But they

41:07

just go to their podcast app,

41:10

open it up, listen, and then

41:10

move on to the next one or

41:12

whatever. If you go to our

41:12

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook,

41:15

LinkedIn, any of those, you'll

41:15

see pictures of the guests that

41:19

we're interviewing, and the

41:19

people we're chatting to.

41:24

Easy to find us on all

41:24

those social media platforms

41:27

just search for The Silent Why.

41:27

Or to be specific

41:30

@thesilentwhypod. We've got

41:30

website as well, all the details

41:34

are on there, www.thesilentwhy.com. So we'll end this episode in

41:36

usual fashion with a lovely

41:39

quote that Claire will read. Now

41:39

this is from Lin-Manuel Miranda,

41:43

the hugely talented guy who

41:43

wrote Hamilton, who has a

41:47

massive brain that Claire's very

41:47

jealous of, is that right?

41:50

I am.

41:51

And when he accepted a

41:51

Tony Award for Hamilton, his

41:54

speech was pretty much a sonnet

41:54

that he'd written for his wife,

41:58

and here's part of that sonnet.

42:00

"We chase the melodies

42:00

that seemed to find us,until

42:03

they're finished songs and start

42:03

to play, when senseless acts of

42:07

tragedy remind us that nothing

42:07

here is promised not one day.

42:12

This show is proof that history

42:12

remembers, we live through times

42:16

when hate and fear seems

42:16

stronger. We rise and fall and

42:20

light from dying embers,

42:20

remembrance is that hope and

42:23

love lasts longer."