0:00

Hello gentlemen , how are you ?

0:01

Good sir , how are you ? Very well .

0:03

Very well , so fresh off the plane

0:05

from Calgary

0:08

. But before that all

0:10

the way from Australia , I'd have to say down

0:12

under .

0:12

It's kind of cliché . Yeah , it is a bit cliché

0:15

, but that's okay , that's fine . What are the other ?

0:17

clichés that you hear when you're here . The

0:19

shrimp on the barbie one is always my favourite . Yeah

0:27

, are you ? From the outback ? They say that yeah , do you fight kangaroos ? What about that guy that punched

0:29

out that kangaroo ? That's pretty crazy , right ? Oh , that's gone everywhere . Publicity things , is

0:31

it ?

0:31

yeah , so we've been talking about kangaroos a lot because

0:34

I part of the presentation . I put up a

0:36

picture of a deer and then I put up a picture

0:38

of a really jacked kangaroo and

0:40

yeah , they kind of look similar big

0:42

monsters . Kangaroo is simply a deer that went to

0:44

prison welcome

0:46

to the site .

0:47

Visit podcast leadership

0:49

and perspective from construction

0:51

with your host , james

0:54

balkner .

0:58

Business as usual , as it has been for

1:00

so long now that it goes back to what we were talking

1:02

about before and hitting the reset button . You

1:04

know , know , you read all the books you read the

1:06

emails .

1:06

You read Scaling Up , you read Good to Great

1:08

. You know , I could go on . We've got to a

1:10

place where we found

1:12

the secret serum . We found the secret potion

1:15

. We can get the workers in . We know where to get them .

1:25

One time I was on a job sale

1:27

for a while and me up on

1:29

LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving

1:31

from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me

1:33

because he heard the Faber Connect platform

1:36

on your guys' podcast Own it

1:38

crush it and love it , and we celebrate these

1:40

values every single day .

1:42

Let's get down to it . Celebrate these values every single day . Let's

1:48

get down to it All right . So

1:50

Paul Wazola , perfect Paul

1:52

Wazola and Russell Cook Much

1:55

easier .

1:55

Yeah , yeah , it's a lot easier . Yeah , I struggle with the Russell a

1:57

little bit If you're mad , you can call me Russ .

1:59

Or if you're Russell , Do you get Russ a lot . No only if I'm mad , only if people

2:01

are mad . If you're mad , you can call me Russ . Do you get Russ a ?

2:02

lot , no only if I'm mad , only if people are mad

2:04

.

2:05

Really Russ , russ , yeah , are you married

2:07

? Yes , does your wife say Russ when she's

2:09

pissed ?

2:10

No , russell , when she's pissed .

2:11

Oh , yeah , that's when it's serious . Yeah

2:13

, does the middle name come out ?

2:16

On occasion .

2:17

Oh yeah .

2:26

Yeah , things are heating up , the heating up , yeah . Yeah , I know mine's

2:28

angry when , um , when paul comes out , just paul , so all the time .

2:30

Yeah , got it pretty much yeah , it's pretty much 24 , 7 pissed off

2:32

.

2:33

I like that , okay . So , uh , let's just go through

2:35

the companies here so everyone can understand . Cool

2:37

thing is today I've got the tv so we can talk

2:39

product talk , like vision of what you guys

2:41

have been doing . So , paul , you are

2:43

the international sales

2:45

and marketing person director

2:48

. Bdm , yeah right , snm

2:51

. Bdm okay , this , these acronyms

2:53

are getting at us in trouble . Um , for

2:55

asp access floors

2:58

correct .

2:58

Okay , international , international . So we're an

3:00

international monster right .

3:02

So , um , in a nutshell , you guys

3:04

do modular flooring , raised

3:06

access floor , which is kind

3:09

of ubiquitous in many areas of North

3:12

America , low in Canada and so

3:15

low in the US . What's the percentage

3:17

in the US ?

3:18

The percentage in the US is a little higher , for

3:20

sure , than Canada . I would say eastern

3:22

Canada has definitely adopted the technology a little

3:24

more so than the Than Canada . I would say Eastern Canada has definitely adopted the technology a little

3:27

more so than the West , but it's coming Definitely .

3:29

Australia it's utilized in many environments .

3:31

But you were saying commercial buildings . We're talking

3:33

like 90% .

3:34

Correct and then in Europe . It'd

3:37

be the same . Okay , yeah , around that 80% .

3:38

So North America's just behind

3:40

, and then Russell Cook's

3:44

Construction Cook's , cook's , yeah , cook's

3:46

. How come you did the S Well and

3:49

you started this company , you're the founder .

3:50

I did , I did and when we started it , we

3:53

.

3:53

You have a partner .

3:54

No , myself . Yeah Well , my wife .

3:56

Or there are two of you .

3:57

There's two of us .

4:02

Yeah , my've got a really really good team .

4:04

Awesome Cooks . We

4:06

kept it kind of vague Cooks Construction Consulting

4:08

when we first

4:10

started . We were strictly just installing

4:12

access floors or access floors

4:15

and glass partitions , but

4:17

there was never a . I didn't

4:19

want to be just associated with one type

4:22

of building

4:24

methodology , so to speak . I had a vision to

4:26

kind of really harness the

4:29

modular concept and bring

4:31

that to market . I know that there's

4:33

a market for the whole turnkey solution

4:35

, so we use the term one

4:37

throat to choke . So

4:40

go to site Now the contractor is basically just going to yeah , one throat to choke

4:42

. Oh , I see . Yeah , that makes sense .

4:42

Yeah , instead of having this guy to do this this guy is basically just going to , yeah , one throat

4:44

to choke . Oh I see , yeah , that makes sense .

4:45

Okay yeah , Instead of having this guy to do this , this guy

4:47

to do that , move this wall , move that wall . Cooks can

4:49

do that .

4:50

So you say you've got a team . What's a headcount ? Look

4:52

like .

4:52

Yeah , so today I think we've got to be close

4:54

to about 20 people .

4:57

We've got actually a

4:59

couple small people that are the fraction when

5:02

you say you're close to 20 . Close to

5:04

20 , yeah .

5:05

Well , you know the construction

5:07

industry is , it's difficult

5:09

. Sometimes we got some

5:11

really really good talented people , but yeah

5:14

, there is a bit of a turnover , unfortunately

5:16

on the installation side . So

5:20

we're a little bit of an outlier . We actually do all of our own

5:22

installations as well , so we don't subcontract anything

5:24

. So

5:28

we try and employ um , you know really good installers and um . So today I

5:30

think we're probably sitting around 20 people . Yeah

5:32

, I think we've got five or six um in

5:35

calgary in the office , we've got a business

5:37

development guy in toronto , um

5:40

, and then we've got , yeah , I'd

5:42

say nine ten 10

5:44

on the installation team currently .

5:47

Cool , yeah , okay , and let's just go

5:49

through . You know , elevator pitch

5:51

the products you guys sell , install

5:53

, et cetera .

5:54

Just give us that , I'll give you the quick , I'll

5:57

try and keep it quick .

5:58

Don't say Cole's notes , I want to do Cole's

6:00

notes .

6:01

No , paul , give me a kick under the seat , but yeah

6:03

, so what we do is we start

6:05

off with a raised access floor . That's our base , that's

6:08

our technology platform . So if people don't know what raised access floor means , right

6:10

, so think about a drop-down ceiling , think

6:12

about a T-bar ceiling , how you've got those interchangeable

6:16

ceiling tiles . Now put that whole concept on

6:18

its head , so put that on the floor . So

6:20

you've got modular two foot by two foot

6:22

squares that are interchangeable with

6:24

the next , and they sit atop an adjustable

6:26

pedestal system , or legs as they're sometimes

6:29

known Adjustable pedestal system

6:31

. So we can actually adjust the pedestals to

6:33

suit . So we have a perfectly flat floor . So

6:35

, no matter what the slab deviates underneath , you

6:37

got a perfectly flat floor . What

6:43

that does is allows for a beautiful slimline aluminum glass partitioning system , especially nowadays

6:45

, with the designers designing a lot of things out of Europe . Europeans

6:48

obviously have adopted raised floor , so everything's perfectly

6:51

flat . Having a really slim

6:53

aluminum glass partition

6:55

system , you

6:58

really need a perfectly flat floor , obviously . So

7:00

the whole concept is we run all the power , all

7:02

the data , all the infrastructure within the raised floor

7:04

plenum space . So the plenum space is from

7:06

raised floor to slab , all of that open space

7:08

reserved for your electrical . Your data

7:11

controls your HVAC .

7:11

So how much elevation does the whole system

7:13

take ?

7:14

We can go as low as about two and a half inches . We've

7:17

done installs all the way up to four or five feet

7:19

, depending on what the requirements are Four

7:21

or five feet tall . Yeah , so we

7:23

did actually just out here on the coast we

7:26

did LNG's new facility , so

7:29

liquefied natural gas , so they've got a huge

7:31

data center . It's about 25,000

7:33

square feet ASP icon data

7:35

system . So we have a specific access

7:37

floor for that environment and , as you

7:39

know , with Vancouver it's a high seismic

7:41

zone so it's all engineered to withstand

7:44

. It's actually called a post-disaster building so the whole

7:46

thing can fall down the access floor . Where we're main . They've

7:49

got critical infrastructure on top of the access

7:51

floor that needs to be maintained in the event

7:53

of any earthquake . So any kind of lateral movement that

7:55

that access floor takes the system on

7:57

top . The infrastructure on top is completely

7:59

sound With

8:07

48 inch access floor . The reason

8:09

they went so tall was because they have a triple-layer cable

8:11

tray going underneath this Australian cell phone

8:13

in the background .

8:15

Jeez Paul , it's like it's his first podcast .

8:16

It is and he actually just kicked it under the desk he did .

8:18

I love it . Okay , continue .

8:20

So 48-inch high access floor . The reason

8:22

being is they had three levels of cable tray , and

8:24

in the first cable tray , a little

8:26

bit over my head , but they had

8:28

some type of cabling that

8:31

couldn't be within so many inches

8:33

of the next cable for interference

8:35

, so they needed to have that separation between

8:37

, and they had a whole bunch of just cable tray snaking

8:39

under the floor . Hence the reason

8:41

for being so tall . And that allowed for future

8:43

expansion and additions to to

8:45

the site , so that data center specifically

8:48

actually controls all of the navigation systems

8:50

for this liquefied natural gas

8:52

plant , all the it , all the controls

8:54

that are again over my head , but

8:56

everything that's going on in that plant is controlled

8:58

by this facility .

8:59

so right , so with four feet , then

9:01

I mean can they crawl under this thing ?

9:03

Essentially yeah , that sounds freaky

9:06

what it does for the technicians

9:08

and stuff when they're adding cabling , instead of being on ladders

9:10

trying to work overhead . Now they have the option

9:12

just to remove a series of access flooring panels and just

9:14

lay the cables , so it's safer . Yeah

9:17

, that's awesome .

9:17

Yeah 9-11 changed the

9:20

structure and design component really

9:23

across the world .

9:24

You had to bring 9-11 into it didn't you

9:27

, I did it was going so well , didn't

9:29

you think so , russell ?

9:30

It was for Canadians , so

9:33

it was a substantial corner

9:35

, I think . With regards to commercial infrastructure

9:38

, building infrastructure , it was

9:40

an elbow there yeah that makes sense .

9:46

So let's just go through ASP for a second

9:48

. So product-wise flooring

9:50

, and

9:52

you guys are a distributor for them .

9:53

Yeah , so Cooks is the Canadian distributor

9:56

for ASP , so we're fortunate

9:58

to be partnered with ASP , so we're

10:00

direct distributors . We buy directly from the factory

10:02

ASP's factory and we service across Canada

10:04

. We've directly from the factory ASP's factory and we service across Canada . We've got projects , obviously

10:07

, in British Columbia here , vancouver , northern

10:09

BC . We've been fortunate to do all the

10:11

BC Hydro substations All

10:14

the way across to PEI in New Brunswick we're

10:16

doing the new Kodiak police facility out there

10:18

. So yeah , our boys

10:20

travel clear across the country supplying

10:23

and installing the ASP product .

10:26

So tell me , Paul , how long have you been with the

10:28

company ? Tell me a little bit about that .

10:31

So the company ASP has been running

10:33

for about 30 years and that

10:35

was developed . So it's a family-run company

10:37

and they were

10:39

installing access floor and partitioning during

10:43

that commencement and then saw

10:45

the problems with the access floor system in

10:47

regards to its design , what it was capable

10:49

of doing , and they

10:52

decided so the family decided that it

10:54

could go above and beyond that , so they

10:56

started altering designs , doing some R&D

10:58

associated with it , and

11:01

we've continued that R&D

11:03

right through the company's lifespan . So

11:06

I joined the company in 2015

11:11

to move infrastructure

11:14

from domestic Australia

11:16

internationally because

11:19

we realised that the new technologies

11:21

that we had and the increased

11:24

footprint that it was gathering within Asia Pacific

11:26

and those technologies were

11:28

just taken up so , so rapidly

11:31

. So everything

11:33

the movement towards Canada

11:35

and the US is is our

11:37

sort of final encroachment on onto

11:40

the globe and which led

11:42

me to meet Russell and Cook's construction

11:44

.

11:44

Yeah , how did you guys meet ? Well , it's a bit of a

11:46

funny story and a bit of a bold move , I

11:49

mean . So there's really two or three

11:51

Bold move , bold move .

11:53

It better be bold , the bold move

11:56

.

11:58

Okay , well , here let me backtrack a second .

11:59

The bold move . Does bold mean the

12:01

same as Australian bold ?

12:02

I don't know what does it mean in Australia , Anyway

12:05

?

12:05

continue Heroic . What

12:09

does it mean in Australia ? Risky ? There's associated

12:12

risk with it . I would agree .

12:13

I would say heroic , heroic

12:15

. Heroic , yeah , I'm going to look at the glass half

12:17

full . You can look

12:20

at the glass half empty . What I meant by bold

12:22

move is okay . So I was employed by another company

12:24

raised access flooring company in Canada

12:26

. There was two two raised floor

12:28

companies , predominantly in Canada , both manufacturers of access

12:31

floor . When we went independent

12:33

we were working very closely with one of them . We

12:38

had a slight disagreement on a few

12:40

objectives , agreement

12:46

on a few objectives and I was looking for a product at the time that was going to be was going to

12:48

allow us to move into bathrooms , wet areas , restaurants , kitchens and things

12:50

like that . And the access floor industry here in Canada

12:52

just didn't have something . Typically

12:55

with an access flooring system , when you have a situation

12:57

that you want to put ceramic tile or terrazzo or marble

12:59

or some kind of a sheet good and you

13:01

need waterproofing , you would have to lower

13:03

the access floor , which would intrude on the plenum

13:05

space below . You'd also have to add

13:08

a plywood substrate or a concrete board , just

13:10

like doing traditional tile . So what that does

13:12

for the contractor and the client is it just simply adds

13:14

cost , it delays schedule , it

13:16

interrupts that plenum space again because you're lowering the access

13:18

floor , oftentimes from tender

13:20

stage , especially competitive tender stage . By

13:25

the time we get to site , that cost is not really picked up until it's too late

13:27

, right ? Who's doing this ? Well , you are . No , I'm not

13:29

doing that , you're doing it anyway . So we're looking for

13:31

a product that was going to suit . So the urban

13:34

interlock product the asp offers is actually

13:36

a tongue and grooved raised access flooring

13:38

panel specifically designed to act as a second

13:40

slab scenario . So so you can actually tile

13:43

mortar , liquid terrazzo liquid epoxy

13:45

right on top of this floor panel . So four

13:47

or five years ago I tapped

13:50

Paul .

13:52

And before then there was just failing hard

13:55

finishes over access flooring system

13:57

, and so this product

13:59

eliminates that . It can be waterproofed

14:02

. It goes straight into those type

14:04

of environments . We find them going into rooftop

14:06

bars , all those types of various

14:08

environments , and slowly encroaching

14:11

into the residential market . Slowly

14:14

, slowly , encroaching into the residential

14:17

market .

14:17

Yeah , the residential market's funny because , with the raised

14:19

access floor . Part of the sales pitch is obviously

14:22

a cost um . There's a cost factor associated

14:24

with the raised access floor , albeit um

14:26

. Once you start to pull out the other components

14:29

that it saves money . We we kind

14:31

of realize almost a cost neutral solution . So

14:33

adding a raised floor doesn't necessarily add cost

14:36

because you're able to pull so much back

14:38

from the traditional build . We've got

14:40

some pretty cool cost studies done now . We just did

14:42

one , actually , with a construction company in the States

14:44

. It was about

14:46

a 47,000 square foot project

14:49

that they had . It was three floors , 47,000 square

14:51

feet . The contractor came to us and said

14:54

look , it cost almost $10

14:56

Canadian a square foot . We did

14:58

the math conversion it cost almost $10 a square

15:00

foot for them to flood . So by the

15:03

time they engineered the floor to make sure it could

15:05

take the weight , garbage

15:07

removal , all the things that were factored in , it

15:09

was about $10 a square foot for them to flood the floor

15:11

between two , two and a half inches . We

15:14

realized that we could put a raised flooring in there for

15:16

$12 a square foot . So for 12

15:18

bucks a square foot versus 10 bucks a square foot . Sure

15:21

, you're adding two bucks , but now when

15:23

we talk about tenant improvement

15:25

costs for future tenants , future

15:30

moves , ads and changes , reduced electrical

15:32

, even things like scanning the floor for x-ray and coring

15:34

you start pulling those costs back

15:37

, you're going to save at least $3 or $4

15:39

a square foot . Okay .

15:45

Let's just for those who don't know , including myself , if we just kind of

15:47

just imagine for a second you're saying it's basically

15:50

an aluminum tongue groove system

15:54

. Yeah

15:56

, so specifically , so a standard… Does it slip together that you can't pull it Like ?

15:58

how does that… so there's different access floor

16:00

systems for different environments , and that's where we're probably

16:03

really changing the components .

16:04

Is it ?

16:04

vertical ? No , so there

16:06

are systems that sit together . So

16:09

, russ , you're talking about the urban interlock where it's sort

16:11

of a male-female connectivity on all four

16:13

sides of the panel . It behaves like

16:15

a second slab scenario . It dissipates

16:18

loading through its footprint and

16:21

then it's able to then accommodate higher

16:23

loads , higher rolling loads

16:25

, and therefore you don't get movement within

16:28

tiles . There's no substrate for which

16:30

is a potential failure of cracking

16:32

once loading goes over that . So

16:35

, um , and then there are other access

16:37

flooring systems . There's still cementitious

16:39

systems like our icon series , which

16:42

I into icon data , data

16:44

and comms environments , universities

16:46

for tiered seating , stadium

16:49

seating with

16:51

regards to high loads , entertainment

16:53

environments and

16:59

then , of course , standard commercial

17:01

application . But we're finding it's

17:03

sort of encroaching into other areas . Architecture's

17:06

really coming on board internationally

17:08

in specifying access flooring

17:10

because it makes the actual environment

17:13

more modular , more conducive

17:16

to change as the building's

17:18

life component

17:21

changes . It may be a commercial space

17:23

today , but it may be taken up as

17:25

residential tomorrow because of residential

17:27

housing issues and so on .

17:29

You're definitely in sales , paul , do

17:33

I do well ? No , it was good , it's thorough

17:36

and true , and factual .

17:37

Factual and thorough . What we found with the raised

17:39

floor game in general is the approach is more one size fits

17:41

all . There's good access flooring manufacturers , don't get me wrong

17:44

, but it's like . The approach is like more one size

17:46

fits all . You know , there's good access flooring manufacturers

17:48

, don't get me wrong , but it's a very much . This is what we have

17:50

, so this is what you get , whereas ASP has developed

17:52

systems for different environments

17:55

. So the system for an office is different from the system

17:57

from a data center , which is different from a casino

17:59

, and I don't mean just the panel , the pedestal

18:01

itself Going into an office building . We've

18:03

got gaskets that suppress

18:05

the noise , we've got anti-vibration O-rings

18:08

and silicone nuts that are specifically designed

18:10

for that environment . Right , we do a lot of lawyer's

18:12

offices , things where acoustics are very

18:14

, very important , casinos , areas of very

18:17

, very high loading . We've got heads that actually

18:19

spin right into the pedestal base to really lock

18:21

it in . So when you've got a ton of activity

18:23

on top of the floor , that floor doesn't loosen up over time

18:25

. It's subject to a lot more loading

18:27

conditions than , say , an office building .

18:29

Okay , so

18:31

do you guys use BIM modeling

18:34

? We do so that you can basically see

18:36

what was underneath that whole thing .

18:38

Yeah , yeah , we've done some like that LNG project that

18:40

we were discussing earlier . Specifically , we actually did

18:42

a whole BIM modeling . We could actually take a tour

18:45

of the underfloor space , what it did there

18:47

because of the amount

18:49

of cable trays that were snaking through it . Our

18:51

pedestals are two foot on

18:53

center , so in order for us to

18:55

mitigate any kind of interferences with the floor

18:57

, that BIM modeling really helps navigate

19:01

where the cable trays can and can't go , or vice versa

19:03

, where the pedestals can and can't go . And then

19:05

we go one step further and we've actually got a software

19:07

that'll actually , when

19:13

we lay the access floor grid out , it'll tell us what kind of cuts we have on one side

19:15

. Can we put those cuts on the other side , like the off cuts ? Can we use them over here ? It

19:17

goes even further . When we talk about furniture layout

19:20

, the architects and designers will say I want a row of desks

19:22

. You know , down here we

19:24

can lay all that out and we can actually have our panels pre-cut

19:27

, uh , when they come from the factory , to have

19:29

penetrations , electrical boxes , furniture

19:31

feeds , all that kind of pretty cool , super

19:33

cool . It's like an ikea set of parts coming to site okay

19:36

.

19:36

So let's um , I

19:39

had some notes here , obviously , which you guys begged

19:41

for a lot , which was was cool

19:43

, but

19:46

let's get to those . So

19:48

let's just talk about sort of the

19:50

macro effect of all of this . Here We've got

19:52

the environmental side , we

19:55

have the revenue side of traditional

19:58

tenant improvements . They basically come in , rip

20:00

everything up and put something new back in and

20:03

then also , as we move forward

20:06

over time , there will be

20:08

it'll be quite

20:10

a while , but there will be robotic installations

20:13

, because when

20:15

anything's modular , you obviously know

20:17

its form factor . That means it's

20:19

not far away . No , it's not , it's not far

20:21

away , so let's

20:23

just chat about that for a second . So

20:27

you were saying it's 90% in

20:29

your area and maybe 15%

20:32

in Canada , and that is in commercial

20:34

applications .

20:35

Yeah , I mean you said residential is barely

20:37

few and far between . The casino environment

20:39

has really adopted the technology because it just makes sense

20:41

, right ? So when you walk into a casino you're not tripping over They've

20:44

got to move the machines around and you're not tripping over cords

20:46

. You don't want pack poles coming from the ceiling

20:48

, you want the all the infrastructure underneath plus

20:51

the new machines . So what's the height of a because

20:53

is this like ?

20:54

this is secret knowledge no , no , no , what's

20:56

? What's the height of the uh of the raised access

20:58

flooring for a casino ?

21:00

look , it could be 60 for just

21:02

power and data . So 60 millimeters

21:05

.

21:05

What was that ? Two and a half inches , two and a half

21:07

inches Two and a half Canadian inches .

21:10

And then , just so I can understand this

21:12

, they use , like the feeding poles to

21:14

get all the stuff through , like , if

21:16

you think from an electrician's standpoint

21:19

.

21:19

They love it because they're literally able to just open

21:21

up an entire row of panels , because

21:24

every corner of the panels , when four panels

21:26

come together , they share one pedestal . So

21:29

you can actually open up an entire run of

21:31

access flooring panels , so you can open up a corner and it opens up

21:33

when you remove one panel . What you've

21:35

done is you've exposed four pedestals in

21:38

a way where they're still sharing three other panels

21:40

. But if you take a whole run of access

21:43

flooring panels , if

21:46

you poke onto the raised access flooring section , of . Cook's . There you might get a better idea

21:48

.

21:49

So we're looking at your website now , which is cooksconstructionnet

21:53

. You got it . Yeah , what's with the net ?

21:56

That's a damn good question . We're going to be going

21:58

through a bit of a rebranding in the next six eight months

22:00

.

22:00

So we'll , oh , I see , no , this is actually pretty good , okay

22:02

, so I see , so

22:05

are there so ?

22:05

this project here . This is in Sydney . This

22:09

is a client's particular

22:11

access floor that they wanted pre-finished , I

22:14

see , so we pre-finished that in actually beautiful

22:16

Canadian maple , which is

22:18

spectacular .

22:19

Yeah , it does .

22:20

Australians love your Canadian maple .

22:23

Yeah , they do , and the syrup probably Okay

22:27

. So is .

22:27

this are some of the panels . That sits on four

22:30

pedestals ? I see that , yeah , and then they have a stringer system

22:32

.

22:32

But are some of the panels designed to

22:35

be only accessed or to be specifically

22:38

accessed and others are more locked

22:40

in ? No , okay .

22:41

Every single one is accessible . It's a whole floor plate . That's cool , completely interchangeable with

22:43

one another . No , okay , every single one is accessible , is accessible the whole floor plate . That's

22:45

cool , completely interchangeable with one another . So this

22:47

system you're looking at here specifically is a pre-finished

22:50

system . This is not I wouldn't

22:52

say this is typical . I would say this is something

22:54

that more supports a corporate identity . So

22:56

this is concept plus .

22:58

So within Australia , the Australian market

23:00

, this is commonly used within

23:02

office fit out , so pre-finished

23:04

timbers , architecturally

23:06

designed or specified

23:08

with regards to the actual

23:10

species , or even parquet on the panel

23:13

. So we work closely with architecture to

23:15

really shake up that environment for

23:17

the client .

23:19

Yeah . So what you're looking at there is you've got a two

23:21

foot by two foot panel that's been pulled out of the

23:23

ground or pulled out of the uh , the

23:26

installation there . So now you have access to

23:28

that plenum space . So if you can imagine an electrician

23:30

coming in if they wanted to say remove , yeah

23:32

, one , two , three , four more panels , they can

23:35

actually just simply lay their cables down

23:37

in their cable tray or whatever they're going to do , and they can lay

23:39

it right in that pot and they just put the panels back pretty

23:41

, pretty sweet .

23:41

Great , great project , high sustainability , credentialing

23:44

on this one as well , right so ?

23:45

let's just talk about the revenue

23:48

impact of this a little bit .

23:50

Can we go to the sustainability component

23:52

? No , that was number one , wasn't it ? No

23:55

?

23:55

Oh , that's right , Money first , money first .

23:57

Money first is it , that's true . So

24:00

, yeah , I just

24:02

. Who are

24:05

the people out there like , ah

24:08

yeah , that cuts us out of the equation

24:10

, or is there ?

24:13

You're not necessarily stepping on too too many toes

24:15

when it comes to a raised access floor . I mean , you

24:18

know it's not

24:20

replacing anything , it's

24:22

simply again it's

24:24

. What was once reserved for a ceiling system is

24:26

now being put under the access floor . So

24:29

from terms of revenue , what it's doing , from a developer

24:31

ownership standpoint , it falls into the category

24:34

of a depreciable asset like furniture

24:36

systems or a wall system . So developers

24:38

are realizing the cost benefits because

24:40

within seven or eight years they're able to write off

24:42

the entire investment . Cost benefits

24:45

because within seven or eight years they're able to write off the entire

24:47

investment . From

24:49

a revenue standpoint for them . They're also able to garner potentially a little bit more per square

24:51

foot in rental or lease space because as

24:53

that tenant grows , that tenant

24:55

doesn't have a huge cost to construction . As

24:57

that tenant comes in to do a new fit out in the raised

25:00

access flooring space , their cost to construction

25:02

or their tenant improvement cost is significantly

25:04

reduced because the infrastructure is there . They're

25:07

not moving ductwork around , they're not moving wires

25:09

around , they're just simply popping up areas in

25:11

the floor yeah and bringing that up yeah , that makes sense

25:13

.

25:13

Yeah , so , um , when

25:17

it comes to you as the contractor

25:20

, let's say , this is

25:22

pretty much a is

25:29

there a service license around this ? That you guys have a service program Once you've installed

25:31

this ? You guys are the ones that are here

25:33

to make changes et cetera

25:35

, and does this have some kind

25:37

of a guaranteed next customer ?

25:40

Yeah , those are great questions , so there's some fine lines there for

25:42

sure . I mean , the nice thing is about an access floor

25:45

is it is simply an access floor . So if

25:47

there are small moves , ads

25:49

and changes to do , we do a bit of a tutorial

25:51

with the maintenance team and if they need to move a desk

25:53

or swap electrical box around , they're more than free

25:56

to do so . It's not something where there is

25:58

not proprietary to us . Now we

26:00

would like to be involved . If we're going

26:02

to start cutting access flooring , re-supporting

26:04

it . There's been situations in the past where demising

26:07

walls have been introduced or underfloor

26:09

baffling . So we talk about baffling

26:11

sound protection from office

26:13

to office , demising walls if

26:15

they're adding storage rooms or they're adding shared

26:18

hallways and we've got fire rating situations . We

26:20

need to be involved because cutting of the

26:22

access floor and then re-supporting the access

26:24

floor is very important . If it's done wrong

26:26

, it can be obviously quite dangerous because

26:28

it's a structural component of the floor .

26:30

So when you let's say

26:32

that there's

26:35

a new tenant

26:37

, let's say it's a 10,000-square-foot office

26:39

and it's a tech company or whatever you know office , and it's some

26:41

tech company or whatever and currently

26:44

it's going to be demoed , all the

26:46

existing stuff is there old drywall

26:49

, steel , stud , all

26:51

that's been taken out

26:53

. Or who is it the architect

26:56

that's going to suggest hey look , we should

26:58

go with because

27:01

your company is flexing and changing and your requirements

27:03

are going to be , you know , oscillating over time

27:05

. Is the

27:07

raised access floor plus the modular

27:09

wall systems ? Is

27:12

this like the more conducive

27:15

to the way business is these days ? Is that , do

27:17

you have to ? Because I would imagine if you can do raised access

27:19

floor , you're not going to want to be doing steel stud are you ?

27:23

Actually , there's a lot of studies going

27:25

on at the moment with regards to workspace

27:27

, work environments , what's better , what's

27:29

not better , and there's a lot of debate

27:31

backwards and forwards . But certainly

27:33

what we're seeing within australasia is

27:36

open space , open workplace

27:38

, spacing , um

27:41

and breakout , workout and break out workplaces

27:43

and then set off smaller offices

27:46

that are acoustically sealed . Yeah , and

27:50

it's working really well . Some of the newer

27:52

builds are working very , very well

27:54

. They're bringing back people into the

27:56

office towers , into the commercial environments

27:58

, and it's working quite well . And

28:01

I think the access floor component

28:03

allows that

28:05

flexibility , um , allows the

28:07

flexibility for changing of tendencies and

28:09

allows the flexibility of that working space

28:12

and that movement of the working space

28:14

around . So they , the actual um

28:17

tendency , can change and reconfigure

28:19

after 12 months , two years yeah , no , I totally

28:21

get that .

28:21

Yeah , the value proposition is

28:23

pretty clear . I guess what my question is is

28:25

that you're

28:28

probably not going to want to do a hybrid , you

28:31

know , like traditional steel , like even

28:34

it going down to the slab . It's like kind of weird

28:36

if you're going to interrupt the floor system

28:38

with drywall .

28:40

If I had it my way , paul had it his way and we came in

28:42

and we designed the perfect office space . It'll be full

28:45

raised floor throughout , including bathrooms

28:47

. The only thing you're not going to do is , obviously , the elevator shaft

28:49

. So you're gonna , you're gonna have a curb where the elevator

28:51

is . You're gonna cut right up to it stairwell . Everything

28:54

else is going to sit on that slab . So , like

28:56

paul said , you've got that open office

28:59

environment yeah , how do you do the ?

29:00

how do you do the transition from the from

29:03

from like elevator hallway to

29:06

a raised floor system ?

29:07

So typically what we see . So we're talking base build

29:09

design now so we're talking a tower or a building

29:11

that's been designed with

29:14

raised floor in mind , meaning you

29:16

come off the elevator , pardon me , and

29:18

you've got essentially a curb , just a very small

29:20

six-inch curb , and you're stepping down

29:22

into a depressed slab .

29:24

But that's if it's purpose built for raised access

29:26

. I'm just talking about retro so retrofits .

29:28

So you're going to , you're going to maintain your elevated core , so you've

29:30

got your shared space . Yeah , once you start walking out

29:33

into the occupied space or the client

29:35

space , we actually have a system where the heads

29:37

will swivel and we'll create a ramp so

29:39

we can actually swivel them down and create a ramp or

29:41

or build a set of steps of it so you

29:43

can actually enter the access floor that way . So we will

29:45

ramp or step down to common areas

29:47

, bathrooms , existing

29:49

elevators , whatever the existing infrastructure

29:51

is .

29:52

Interesting . Okay , unless you've got a fire

29:55

reason to partition or

29:57

separation of two areas , then

29:59

it'll run slap , slap .

30:01

Well , here's a neat example . So we did a project here in Vancouver

30:03

I can't remember the name of the company

30:06

, it was kind of like a WeWork scenario , right ? Well

30:08

, they had a floor . It was about a 12,000-square-foot floor

30:10

plate and there was nine companies moving

30:12

into this one floor . Obviously , vancouver real estate is

30:14

expensive . So they

30:16

had nine companies sharing the floor space and what we did

30:19

was we installed a raised floor , a

30:21

completely open race floor system , right . So

30:23

it was about , yeah , like I said , 12,000 square feet , so

30:25

full race floor . And then what we did was we removed

30:28

rows of panels for the demising spaces

30:30

. So we removed a row of panels . Yes , we

30:33

cut around the new wall that separated

30:35

it for fire rate . But then once one company

30:37

moved or moved out one company , either

30:39

they went belly up or one company expanded . We

30:42

actually , when the walls removed , we just dropped a new

30:44

full panel in and opened that space right back up , I

30:46

see . So it's pretty cool from that . But I want to go

30:48

back one second Paul's note . So Paul was talking about

30:50

how today's world is

30:52

moving to that open office environment , which is great

30:55

. Having a raised floor , having

30:57

an open office environment , allows for that

30:59

to happen very easily . However

31:10

, when we have scenarios like what happened recently with the pandemic and we go back to that more closed-in working environment

31:12

, you can come in and add partitioning systems whether they be temporary or glass partitions or whatever on top of the access floor

31:15

and now all your services are under the floor . Yeah , so

31:17

you can put that glass wall or that glass pod right

31:19

anywhere you want . If you have pre-built pods , they

31:21

have glass . You can put that anywhere in the floor plate , a

31:23

corner , anything like that and and your

31:26

and your infrastructure services are under the floor .

31:27

so you simply pop up yeah , or

31:29

if you have plenum management underneath

31:32

the actual access floor system

31:34

, you can create air curtains for delineation

31:36

of zone to zone just with simple

31:39

air curtain coming up through um the

31:41

access floor system . So it's got

31:43

some benefits there , especially around

31:45

the pandemic era .

31:48

The old pandemic . I mean

31:50

some of these photos you guys have . I mean

31:52

this is so cool , Really cool , yeah

31:55

, yeah , really neat , Really nice .

31:56

So I guess this . So

31:59

that's actually just a glass wall system on a slab

32:01

, unfortunately . So they didn't utilize the raised floor in that

32:03

scenario , so everything's still maintained . So

32:07

how much of this stuff are you guys doing ? I would say like for cooks

32:09

. Business-wise I would say we're probably about seven , sixty to seventy percent

32:11

access floor . Thirty to forty percent is

32:13

our walls . The wall market , um

32:15

in canada , um , especially in in

32:18

calgary , vancouver , in the west , is very , very

32:20

competitive , um , which

32:22

is good for consumers , um , bad

32:24

for business . Very

32:26

competitive , which is good for consumers , bad for business , but it's very competitive

32:28

marketplace . But in saying that , there's significantly

32:31

more opportunities . So every project

32:33

essentially has a wall system , whereas

32:35

not every project has a floor . So the floor is less competitive

32:38

, but there's less opportunities , more of a niche

32:40

market . What we try and

32:42

do is promote the entire space as the modular

32:44

space , so demountable and operable

32:46

walls . Operable walls are , do you ?

32:48

have pictures of those .

32:49

Yeah , if you go up to the top of the website , there should be

32:51

the leading

32:53

to the operables .

32:54

Oh , there you go .

32:54

Well , this is really neat for us because we're actually

32:57

halfway through a bit of a merger acquisition

33:00

of a company that produces these walls and manufactures

33:02

these walls . Which one would I go to Go

33:04

down a little bit . Let's look at

33:07

the Aqua . Let's look at the one on the top

33:09

left . Oh , the

33:11

eye wall is pretty neat . Yeah , so

33:13

I really like the operable partitions

33:15

more so even than the demountable

33:18

partitions , the reason being is you

33:20

can really open and divide a space quickly

33:22

, so you have the access flooring system . I

33:24

don't know why the video is not playing . It

33:27

should be playing the access flooring

33:29

system again being your base . These walls

33:31

are great because you can use these as room dividers

33:33

, office dividers , and they're on a track

33:36

system , so they're all top-hung . That's awesome

33:38

yeah . Yeah , these are really , really cool

33:40

and they have such high STC ratings as well . So this is a company called

33:42

Unique Wall that

33:44

manufactures these in part in Toronto . Part

33:47

of it comes from Europe , part of it comes from Toronto .

33:49

So what's that little footing that came down , yeah

33:51

, so what is that that's ? Actually an actuated . It's

33:53

for dust and acoustics .

33:54

It's acoustics mainly , so you kind of see that nail

33:56

. It's like felt or whatever

34:00

it's actually gives us such a high acoustic

34:02

rating . We got all the way up to a 54 STC

34:04

rating with these walls . You'll see the top here

34:06

in the video . No , you won't , because I lied

34:08

. But the top and bottom seals

34:11

are actually actuated . So when they touch

34:13

one another and the electrodes make that connection

34:15

, the top and bottom

34:17

seals protrude , or bottom

34:19

drops , the top rises and that gives you a locked-in

34:21

seal . So you can pretty much be on

34:24

one side having a verbal

34:26

altercation with somebody and not be able to hear it on the other

34:28

side . It's pretty impressive

34:30

.

34:32

Yeah , I mean from a . I

34:34

would think this stuff looks very German , you

34:37

know yeah , like the European .

34:39

So , honestly , most of the demountable systems

34:41

out there are European design . Yeah

34:44

, that makes sense . The glass wall systems

34:46

, the operable partitions

34:48

, to me are really cool because

34:50

we're doing one for PricewaterhouseCoopers

34:53

right now where they've actually got a big open

34:55

office room and then they have got

34:57

three walls that actually converge into a T . So

34:59

they've got one that comes one side , one that comes the other

35:01

side and one that comes the the other . So they've really got an

35:03

open layout , like paul was saying , but they have

35:05

the ability to section it off into three separate

35:08

areas where there's meetings boardrooms

35:10

, offices , yeah , I mean this kind of uh .

35:12

The concept was kind of uh pioneered

35:14

by the banquet space , right exactly

35:17

yeah .

35:17

So basically mini banquets , mini banquet

35:20

space .

35:20

Yeah , yeah , yeah that's what you're going on your website's a

35:22

little bit uh . It's probably our internet , not you .

35:28

Within Australia we're sort of finding the opposite , where it's more open plan , commercial

35:30

, yeah , and

35:32

then so let's

35:34

talk about the

35:36

other part , the environmental

35:39

part .

35:41

So , obviously , what

35:43

was I ? I was reading something

35:45

the other day that was talking about what isn't

35:47

talked about in terms of gases

35:50

is glue glue

35:53

is like very .

35:55

I'm so happy you brought that up because Paul's going to go into

35:57

it , yeah , so you know gluing down

35:59

stuff , you know construction adhesives

36:01

, all that kind of stuff .

36:03

yeah , in terms of you know how long adhesives all that kind of stuff ? Yeah , in terms of

36:05

you know how long that off-gas is for

36:07

, et cetera . I mean , even when you can't smell , that's probably

36:09

still off-gassing . It's still off-gassing yeah

36:12

so just take us through the just . There's

36:14

obviously the environmental sustainability

36:17

when it comes to waste

36:20

and efficiencies , et cetera

36:22

. Being able to move from tenant to tenant , that's

36:24

A . Waste and

36:26

efficiencies , etc . Being able to move from tenant to tenant , that's a , but b . Just the human impact

36:29

side of things in terms of materials . Maybe

36:31

just take us through the . What the benefit is

36:33

for people working in these environments .

36:35

Yeah , we've taken that sort

36:37

of sustainability measurement within

36:39

the industry . So we've looked at our products

36:41

from really for raw material

36:44

, so they call it a life cycle analysis

36:46

. So we've conducted like

36:48

a life cycle analysis third

36:50

party looking

36:52

at how we do business with regards

36:55

to manufacture and where we

36:57

pull our material . So it measures from where

36:59

we pull our material , from our raw

37:01

materials , the steel , the

37:04

cement , cement component , the

37:06

calcium sulfate , the recycled

37:08

component , um , utilizing

37:10

it , looking at our electricity all

37:13

the way through to installation on

37:15

site . So it's that full recycle

37:18

, a full life cycle analysis

37:20

of the product , uh , transportation

37:22

, shipping , whatever

37:24

it be and then

37:26

that's measured . So that has

37:28

a lifecycle analysis . And utilizing those

37:31

measurements then score

37:33

other sustainability

37:35

credentialing like EPDs , environmental

37:38

product declarations , and

37:40

those measurements then go

37:42

into other areas to achieve

37:45

certain ratings . So internationally

37:47

, this is not something that isn't regulated

37:50

internationally . There are many ways

37:52

to measure sustainability

37:55

. We use that word really

37:57

quite loosely . Not

38:00

baldly .

38:02

Not baldly in that one no .

38:04

Australian , baldly maybe , but yeah so

38:07

. And then really that's

38:09

ASP's particular sustainability

38:12

. We invest a lot of money with

38:14

regards to the R&D

38:16

of our product , so we

38:19

recycle all of our product . We've

38:21

got a closed loop . So , for a manufacturer

38:23

, if any access floor is taken

38:26

up or removed because it's old

38:29

or whatever it be , you guys take it back , we take

38:31

it back . We have a take-up program and scott

38:33

does , and then you guys do that as well in

38:35

calgary .

38:36

What we're trying to do is depending on like

38:38

lead requirements . Uh , the part part

38:40

of the big part of lead is uh . What kind of waste is

38:42

left over and how much tonnage goes back to the landfill ? What

38:45

we do with the access flooring system , even from the

38:47

pallets that they come on . We

38:49

take back all of the offcuts and we send

38:51

it back to ASP to be recycled

38:53

, not into existing .

38:55

You can ship that . Where do you guys manufacture ?

38:58

So what we do is we're manufacturing .

38:59

Are you manufacturing in Australia ?

39:01

No , so we manufacture , so

39:07

in australia .

39:07

No , so we manufacture , so we have a plant , uh , three production plants , okay , um , in china

39:09

, just outside of china .

39:10

So you guys are shipping that back . We manufacture

39:12

, we manufacture , yeah , out of there . Do you air freight that

39:14

?

39:14

and then everything is done

39:16

on the right here . Right everything comes into

39:18

the vancouver port so you guys

39:20

fill up containers and you send them correct ? Yes , and

39:22

we stockpile everything in calgary , so we

39:25

maintain a very large stock in

39:27

Calgary . We're really close to quick ship scenarios

39:30

, but giving

39:32

the stuff back to ASP is very important

39:34

because a lot of buildings now are going LEED Gold , leed Platinum and

39:37

the access floor weighs a substantial

39:39

amount .

39:40

We don't recycle and reuse

39:42

that in access flooring systems . That's

39:44

utilized in other components

39:48

.

39:48

I got it , yeah , but it's

39:50

not in a landfill , I guess is the most important . That's right 100%

39:53

. We don't know , it might be in their landfill

39:56

.

39:56

No , that's not the case .

39:58

So the LCA would identify that you would

40:00

Okay , so you guys track that all

40:02

the way overseas as well .

40:03

Actually , we've just redone

40:06

our environmental product

40:09

declaration , which is linked to the

40:11

EPD , which is linked to

40:13

the LCA . So yeah , and

40:16

that's just re-gone credentialing for

40:18

another five years , I believe the last five years

40:20

. That's pretty cool . Yeah , and

40:23

sorry , where was I going with

40:25

this ? And that credentialing then

40:28

leads us to where the

40:30

industry really wants us to head , and that's

40:32

have a minimal carbon footprint and

40:35

the carbon measurement component

40:37

of the product , and that encompasses

40:39

the lca as well .

40:41

Life cycle analysis right so that carbon

40:43

footprint includes anything that has to go

40:45

back for recycling .

40:46

So once it's recycled and goes into

40:48

other industries , that's

40:52

a closed loop . And

40:54

then , with regards to the actual

40:56

raw material facet , we

40:59

always maintain that point

41:01

of quality control and

41:04

so we utilize a

41:06

particular grading of steel for

41:08

our access floor system . So

41:10

you know , there are industries out there that sort

41:12

of say we recycle the steel and then we reuse

41:14

it in our product . So

41:17

the steel component should

41:19

be of good quality , a specific

41:21

rating , and

41:23

that's what AS , what asp , does

41:25

. So we maintain that quality component .

41:28

But , that said , it's a measurement

41:30

of about 97 , 96.8

41:32

percent um recycled content

41:35

on our different access flooring

41:37

systems we should talk a little bit about

41:39

even how cool the uh the factory is when they pull

41:41

out the pot ash from around the different electrical

41:43

plants . Correct , yeah , so that's pretty neat .

41:45

And that's all part of that LCA measurement . So

41:48

we actually pull out the fly ash from

41:50

four electricity plants around

41:52

our manufacturing facility . So ASP

41:55

manufactures their own systems it's

41:57

not third party and

42:00

then we pull that someone

42:03

else's waste

42:05

being from the electricity plants

42:07

like a fly ash type mix and then we then

42:09

incorporate that into our core

42:12

fuel of some of our products .

42:14

Okay , so

42:16

I would imagine that there is a composite material

42:18

of some sort , so it's aluminum composite

42:21

, and then whatever the top finishes .

42:23

So aluminum is a separate system altogether

42:25

. Okay , yeah , so a calcium sulfate

42:28

system . Okay , yeah , so like the

42:30

urban interlock , we were sort of just- .

42:32

Calcium sulfate . Calcium sulfate Like a drywall

42:34

type compound , like a gypsum style , but it's extremely

42:37

dense , very dense , like a fiber

42:39

, like a fibercrete almost . Okay , yeah concrete , almost

42:41

like a concrete board inside .

42:42

Yeah , very , very dense very

42:44

low tolerable steel Steel

42:46

okay . Yeah , aluminum , aluminum and steel , Aluminum

42:49

and steel , but even the calcium sulfate has a sub-steel

42:51

structure to it that increases

42:54

in thickness according to the load

42:56

. So this type

42:58

of system urban interlock utilized within

43:00

a casino is totally different

43:03

to being utilized in a

43:05

car sales room and

43:07

with , you know , multiple cars over that access

43:09

floor system .

43:10

okay , so we've got yeah , we've got panels that range

43:12

anywhere from a 1250 pound panel

43:15

meaning it's measured the outside

43:17

edge , the weakest edge of a panel . You put a 1250

43:19

pounds of pressure on it before you see any kind of indentation

43:22

. It ranges all up to 3500

43:24

pounds , depending on the environment right

43:26

, but I do want , I do want to go back .

43:27

We could go higher with custom . You know these

43:30

certain projects that require a

43:32

higher rating of loading

43:35

.

43:35

I do want to circle back a little bit because your comment about glue

43:37

, specifically in the industry

43:40

. So one of the things that we've noticed over the years

43:42

and I've I've worked on a lot of access

43:44

flooring projects where they've taken carpet out

43:46

and the access floor is covered

43:48

in glue . Right , it's covered in that carpet glue and

43:50

it gets tracked and you're walking around in your boots . So

43:53

one thing that we're trying to really focus on now and

43:55

promoting now I guess educating

43:57

is the right word the industry

43:59

on is that we have an array

44:01

of modular and magnetic

44:04

finishes so they actually magnetize

44:06

If you click on the raised floor and you go down a little

44:08

bit to the Magnus system , if you

44:11

kind of go down to the finish section , if my website

44:13

will ever load up , so what it is . So

44:16

when we talk about a raised access floor , asp

44:18

offers a standard 20-year manufacturer's

44:21

warranty on the access flooring system . They

44:24

can go a lot higher depending on if they're involved

44:26

in the . There's the Magnus there . So if

44:28

you go down to the Visit the Magnus collection

44:30

. So what we got

44:33

here is actually a hardwood flooring

44:35

system that

44:37

is actually magnetically adhered to , the access

44:39

flooring system . But what it does is it allows you to

44:42

actually hinge out portions

44:44

of the floor in the middle so you can actually have the

44:47

aesthetic of a hardwood , but the functionality

44:49

of the access floor that removes any glues

44:51

or screeds , right um , we've

44:53

also got a porcelain tile system .

44:55

That's very so when you say magnetic , where where's the

44:57

magnetic contact ? Just on the base there

44:59

?

44:59

right there .

44:59

So that's magnetic , that's a magnetic strip , yeah

45:02

so , uh , so we've done a lot of R&D

45:04

with regards to magnetic finishes and

45:06

this is where we're at at the moment

45:09

with regards to porcelain finish and

45:13

a timber finish , and it's all liftable that

45:15

way . It just maintains that investment

45:17

of the access floor . There's no glues

45:20

, screeds , substrates , so

45:22

, typically , what is the sandwich ?

45:24

here . Yeah

45:26

, it's cool , isn't it ? So , in this material

45:29

, here is typically what . So

45:32

this is manufactured ?

45:33

Yeah , sorry . So this is manufactured

45:36

, so it has like a high show

45:39

face on it . So natural timbers

45:41

of various species , but is that just

45:43

the top veneer ? So that's like a top

45:45

veneer , okay . So what's the center then ? And

45:49

then the center is eight compressed

45:51

components of ply substrate

45:54

. But that ply substrate it's

45:56

extremely dense , so

45:58

when you sort of look at it , so the longevity .

46:00

When you say ply , are you talking ply ?

46:01

wood , wood . It's

46:06

a wood pulp that is actually placed

46:08

in a weave to give

46:10

it the strength Gotcha . So yeah , so each

46:12

layer is a specific strength and

46:15

a different rating .

46:16

Well , it has to be too , because of the environments that we're playing

46:18

in , where we have such potential

46:21

for cold or hot underfloor

46:23

activity yeah . Because a lot of times we're using

46:25

the access floor to cool the space . So we're

46:27

introducing very cool conditioned air within

46:30

the access floor plenum space . So we've

46:32

almost got a hot above and a cold below . Yeah , the

46:34

contraction . So you've got that contraction expansion

46:36

. We have this installed in our showroom in

46:38

Calgary and , embarrassingly enough to

46:40

say , we've got absolutely zero humidity control . And you

46:42

know what Calgary is like plus 20 to minus

46:44

20 . In the same day We've got this exposed

46:47

to the elements , essentially by the front door opens

46:49

and you're in our showroom and this stuff

46:51

has really stayed

46:53

true . Do that compressed kind

46:55

of construction material that they've used for

46:57

the base of the wood . There's no separating

46:59

. The tongue and groove holds it together , the magnet holds

47:02

it down , so we don't see any twisting or warping

47:04

.

47:04

In Australia we've got within untenanted

47:07

areas this material laid and

47:13

so it's getting into that 30-degree Celsius mark and then

47:15

into cooling it into around the 10-degree

47:17

mark and I

47:19

was surprised to sort of see there is just no difference

47:21

between the actual environments , even

47:23

though you do control testing

47:26

of the product to actually see it in the environment

47:28

. It's um , it's

47:30

good , so it's a great product yeah

47:32

, I mean being anywhere outside of really vancouver

47:35

.

47:35

The climate in canada um it's

47:38

conducive to hardwood . It's tough right

47:40

, so I some of us have been hotter than that

47:42

. Here I mean , like truthfully

47:44

, I put this stuff in the showroom because I was

47:46

very . We had an old product back in the day that

47:48

we tried to install . There was no tongue and groove to it but it

47:50

twisted , it warped , it contracted like almost an eighth

47:52

of an inch . There was gaps everywhere , yeah , coming

47:54

from winter to summer and that was in a humidity controlled building

47:56

. So we put this in our place and

47:59

, uh , we said , look , if we're gonna , if we're gonna , sell , need

48:01

to . So 18 months , two years , has

48:03

been in there , paul , and . I are looking at it this week and it's flawless

48:05

.

48:06

I mean the design with the R&D like it has

48:08

to have the

48:11

longevity of the system has to be robust

48:14

. I mean it has within

48:18

. In some areas of the world they turn

48:20

around and throw a 10-liter bucket of water over

48:22

the top of it to give it a good mop , Whereas

48:24

in some other areas it might just be a dry

48:26

mop , and so that's why that

48:28

timber has to be a dense timber

48:31

. It has to sort of have that longevity

48:34

component built into it .

48:35

So just a thought around when

48:39

it comes to the a TI project

48:41

, I mean , traditionally you have a general contractor

48:43

and then they're going to hire all the subtrades

48:46

, blah , blah , blah . So you get flooring , electrical

48:49

, as you guys know , you've got all the , all the different divisions

48:52

. So

48:54

do you find , with cooks , that

48:58

you're G-sing this thing ?

48:59

No , no , no definitely not , because

49:01

what's left ?

49:02

You got HVAC to deal with and then so

49:05

well , it depends .

49:06

So if we're talking , we got two

49:09

trains of thought , so we've got base build , say designed

49:11

with access floor , we've got retrofit . So if we're talking

49:13

, retrofit , even from a modular

49:15

power solution , we still need electricians

49:18

obviously to do their work .

49:19

That's what I'm saying , but are you GCing ?

49:24

No .

49:25

That's what I'm saying . But are you GCing ? No , no , we're

49:27

working underneath . So you guys are a sub-trade , so we're a sub-trade . Yeah

49:29

, we're a sub-trade , and so . But you might be absorbing , or you're mixing

49:31

walls and flooring together .

49:33

Right , but it's almost . We're

49:35

not necessarily . I mean , there's always a need for drywallers

49:38

. There's always a need for steel stud framers . We're not

49:41

trying to step on too many toes when we talk about

49:43

the modular .

49:43

Well , it's not an intention thing . You know you guys are

49:45

providing a service and if people want that

49:47

or not , that's not your no harm or fail

49:49

on your side .

49:50

No , I mean where we come from , is we

49:52

preach , we preach , we

49:57

preach sustainability and we preach future

50:00

proofing and we talk about all this , so

50:02

having the products to back it up . So we have , you

50:04

know , the access flooring system that comes as a kit of parts . We

50:06

take away the waste , so we're now mitigating

50:08

all the construction waste . With a glass wall system , aluminum

50:10

wall system , you don't have any waste , you

50:13

have reduced construction time . Tenant

50:15

fit outs , you're reducing waste , modular power

50:17

you're reducing waste as well , so that

50:19

the industry is going that

50:21

way like it's . It's , it's becoming . Everything

50:24

comes to site in a kit of parts , it's put together furniture

50:26

systems and then you're moving on . But

50:28

it needs a buy-in from all the trades to make

50:31

it work perfectly , I would imagine .

50:32

yeah .

50:33

If you don't have people to buy into the system , especially

50:35

when we're dealing with an underfloor air

50:37

application if you don't get trade

50:39

buy-in across the board , it will not work . We've

50:42

had projects that are just not not

50:44

been efficient .

50:45

There's and is this an old school

50:47

, new school kind of thing too ?

50:53

that's going on . Is there a cultural element to this change ? Yeah , so I would say there's definitely

50:55

a generational shift and I'm going to . I'm going to lean on the engineering world in

50:57

terms of having the new , the

51:00

new engineers and new designers

51:02

and architects coming out of school

51:04

, being more trained in that kind of

51:06

european technology . I mean , it's

51:08

easy to to say copy and paste from a building

51:10

that worked before . Uh , in terms of just traditional

51:13

like over the head systems and just no access

51:15

floor . It doesn't make sense , um , once

51:17

you start to really get involved in the costing

51:20

models and the benefits too . So tell us our

51:22

internet cell phone . They standardized

51:24

on raised access floor under floor air for

51:26

their every building . So they built a major commercial

51:29

tower in every city . Now

51:31

we're fortunate to be a part of the TELUS Ocean Project that's

51:33

going on in Victoria . They've actually done studies

51:35

not only from their tenant fit out , because

51:38

they typically occupy a few floors and they lease

51:40

the rest of the building out . So

51:45

they've seen a huge advantage there for raised access floor from a tenant retainment

51:47

, higher leasing costs , lower tenant fit out

51:49

costs , which is all just good for the client and

51:52

good for the goose , good for the gander , but

51:55

also going as far as sick

51:57

building syndrome , reduced absenteeism

51:59

. They put numbers to their employees . So

52:01

with an underfloor air application you're

52:04

bringing in conditioned air . So filtered

52:06

, conditioned air right underneath the occupants

52:08

. That air that's coming in is virtually

52:11

100% fresh air . It's actually pushing up

52:13

all of the exhausted , spent air . So

52:15

today we're sitting here . All the air is coming from over

52:18

top . So what we have here is what we call a mixing

52:20

system . So the air is introduced overhead

52:22

and it's mixing with the room air . Here is what we call

52:24

mixing system . So the air is introduced overhead and it's mixing with the

52:26

room air . So in order for us to get to our desired set point or to effectively

52:28

ventilate the space , you've got to introduce X amount

52:30

of air into the space to effectively

52:32

ventilate what we're off-gassing . Now

52:35

, with a raised floor , you can actually bring in

52:37

substantially less air , which means

52:39

you're heating and cooling less air . So now you're running more

52:41

efficiently . You're

52:45

also entering the air is entering the space and it's effectively ventilating

52:47

the space much quicker than

52:49

its counterpart . So we're actually reducing the

52:51

size of the equipment that we're using , we're

52:54

bringing in fresh air to the occupants , we're reducing

52:56

sick building syndrome or absenteeism , and

52:58

TELUS has done an amazing cost . And

53:02

it's Sick building syndrome . Yeah , so sick building

53:04

syndrome is one of those things you know . If one person's sick in the office , boom , boom , boom , boom

53:06

, boom , boom , boom . You know everybody kind of gets it because you're all sharing

53:09

that Kind of like a mask conversation , kind of like your mask thing , right ? So

53:12

today if we all get sick , it's your fault because you don't have underfloor

53:14

air . Thanks

53:18

, Russell so was that too

53:20

bold ?

53:21

It was bold . That was the opposite of bold . Strange state

53:23

of bold .

53:25

The glass half empty . So sick

53:27

building syndrome . I'm

53:29

not sure who coined the term , but essentially

53:31

you know like one person is sick in the office , the person

53:33

next to them gets it . With a raised access floor

53:35

, the rule of thumb is that every individual in the

53:37

office would have their own diffuser , so they have their

53:39

own air grill , essentially . If I could

53:41

get you to click over to the UFAT section

53:43

of the website , so

53:48

right at the top on the right there's a section that says UFAD .

53:49

Oh , I thought you said UFAT , yeah .

53:50

UFAT . That's not very PC , my friend . So what

53:52

you see here is we're actually replacing

53:54

or trying to mitigate 90% of the duct

53:56

work . So the raised access floor is acting as the top

53:58

layer of that duct , the slab is acting

54:00

as the bottom layer of that duct and the walls

54:02

being the sides . So we're introducing the

54:04

air . There's actually a pretty neat video if it

54:06

loads up . That's

54:09

the idea right there . So you've got the air coming

54:11

in , servicing the space . So

54:13

, again , what it's doing is it's basically taking fresh

54:16

air , recycled air , conditioning the space

54:18

and bringing in almost 100%

54:21

fresh air to the space there .

54:22

It's pretty slick . Yeah , your warm

54:24

air rises , yeah , yeah , so you're getting that

54:26

cool circulation from underfloor

54:28

. Thanks , paul . Yeah , I thought I'd throw that in . Yeah

54:35

, so 50 , 60 years ago there was a data center .

54:36

I do talk a lot . I know this is my

54:38

last spiel .

54:38

He's just like , yeah , no , I've got to get something in there . Do you know what that

54:41

hot air rises for ?

54:42

everyone . I just thought I'd throw that in there

54:44

just to make sure everyone knows I'm here still . You

54:47

state the obvious . So Paul and I have been together

54:50

the last two weeks now . We've done a presentation almost every

54:52

day and Paul's gearing up for the presentation and Russ

54:54

just doesn't shut up the whole time .

54:59

I did ask you a specific question .

55:00

We do . We do so . The thing on the left there

55:02

is the air tower , so picture that as almost your furnace

55:04

, except for and where's that going ? Air is introduced

55:07

. This is the really cool part . So you're going to have one of those

55:09

in the core . What this does for a developer

55:11

. We actually reduce the size of the core because

55:13

we actually put those back into the tenant space

55:16

. So

55:20

the tenant is actually taking those . The air is mixing underneath

55:23

the floor . Now the air is fresh , air is being

55:25

dumped into one or two of those and there's more

55:27

of those dotted around . So they're actually taking the recycle or

55:29

the return air , putting it back . Conditioning

55:31

through the filter , heated , cool , depending on the

55:33

nature of the building being shot underneath

55:35

. If you look at a data center

55:37

, for example , um , they have those

55:39

really hot equipment racks . Um

55:42

, we noticed this is a cool thing

55:44

. This is our space actually . So this

55:46

is our showroom in Calgary . You got the smoke test . So

55:48

what we did , we put a fog machine under the floor and

55:51

what it does is it shows how effectively

55:53

that space is ventilated . So that's

55:55

a commissioned floor plate essentially . That's great

55:58

, russ . Yeah , it's fantastic . That's

56:00

how quickly that space is ventilated

56:02

in terms of the air entering

56:04

the space right . So it's a swirl diffuser . It's

56:06

got that swirl effect of the air coming up . The

56:08

rule of thumb would be Marijuana on your brain . That's

56:11

not my video . It

56:14

shows all the stuff I've watched . The podcast

56:16

is over in five minutes . We'll save that

56:18

for 10 minutes . I

56:21

lost my train of thought . Now . The

56:24

whole concept of underfloor air distribution kind of came

56:26

into play when they were designing data centers . Right , so

56:28

, those hot , hot cloud computing

56:30

, the battery units , they produce an intense amount

56:32

of heat and , as Paul told us , hot

56:34

air rises . Yeah , fun fact

56:36

. So trying to introduce cold

56:38

air over top of this hot air rising

56:40

was just kind of combating that , right , yeah , exactly . And then

56:42

wires you have wires that are hot running

56:45

overhead into the machine . Somebody

56:47

said listen , if we raise that floor up , use a raised

56:50

floor , bring the cold air in underneath . It'll

56:53

naturally come up , It'll naturally rise

56:56

up through that machine . So cool it . You're also cooling

56:58

the cables as they come in . So it's so much more efficient

57:00

that technology just enters

57:02

into the office space now . So it's so much more efficient

57:04

. Yeah , it's cool that technology just enters into the office space now . And instead of data

57:06

and comms , the components you've got people , computers , TVs

57:09

and this adds to the ratings , like

57:11

the sustainability ratings , for that build

57:14

as well .

57:15

So all of these markers rate

57:18

that tower highly and

57:20

then also reducing that

57:22

carbon footprint or

57:37

getting to like a carbon neutral measurement , get

57:39

control and give you visibility

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, again that is sitemaxcloud

58:15

. Now let's get back

58:17

to the episode You've

58:20

seen often technology

58:22

that seemed new at the time and

58:25

then years later you're like you know that old

58:27

thing Is . What

58:30

is the swapability of new

58:32

tech , to be able to sort

58:34

of come in and out of this ? I mean the whole modular

58:37

I would imagine , provides the opportunity for that

58:39

.

58:39

Yeah , it's , extremely

58:41

adaptable .

58:43

I mean , are there crazy stuff that you've

58:46

seen ? Uh , with your company that

58:48

you're , you guys are working on the next number of years

58:50

.

58:50

You're like , wow , we're really excited .

58:52

Okay , can you share anything ?

58:54

not really , no , so so

58:56

sustainability international man of mystery , living

58:58

up to his word . So sustainability

59:00

is really the key for us and I think

59:03

that's going to sort of that is going to be the future with

59:05

regards to manufacturing . So

59:08

looking at a completely

59:10

carbon

59:12

zero access flooring

59:14

system that can

59:17

be totally recycled without

59:20

by-product waste

59:22

.

59:24

When you say carbon zero , okay

59:26

, so just like life cycle-wise

59:29

, from all the way from manufacturing to installation

59:32

to everything , is like zero carbon , zero

59:34

carbon .

59:35

So that is nirvana , yeah , okay

59:37

.

59:37

So for any… . But the benefit besides

59:39

virtue . There is tax breaks et cetera

59:42

, Tax incentives .

59:42

So the industry is sort of catching up with that

59:45

, governments around the world are catching up with that

59:47

. There are tax breaks , there are incentives

59:49

for developers to go down that

59:51

track . There are incentives for even

59:54

local governments to go into that realm

59:56

.

59:56

Well , because they have their own numbers

59:58

, they're trying to hit right , that's right , correct , correct

1:00:00

.

1:00:01

And you know it's great . And you know it's great and I mean hell

1:00:04

, since I've been . I mean I'm 21 now

1:00:06

, so I've been

1:00:08

hearing , you know , in the year 2021

1:00:11

, in the year 2025 , we'll hit carbon

1:00:13

neutral , in the year 2033

1:00:15

, we'll hit , but

1:00:18

that date just keeps stretching out . So it would be nice eventually

1:00:20

, and great for the industry to sort of see

1:00:22

actual projections come

1:00:26

to fruition . How does that work ?

1:00:27

on the carbon side in

1:00:29

China , where it's manufactured . I mean , are

1:00:32

they like adhering to the same

1:00:34

?

1:00:34

standards Correct ? Yes , so

1:00:37

ASP access floors . We manufacture

1:00:39

the access floor systems , we control

1:00:41

that quality component , we control the

1:00:43

materials , we make the decisions with

1:00:46

regards to our product and

1:00:49

that's extremely important as we R&D

1:00:52

further into the future and head

1:00:54

towards that sustainability

1:00:56

market that we really want and that the world

1:00:59

really wants at the end of the day , because

1:01:01

if we look at the access floor industry , it

1:01:03

hasn't really changed that much . I

1:01:06

mean , the Romans invented access

1:01:08

flooring systems , you know

1:01:10

, utilising marbles . If

1:01:12

you've been to Pompeii , have you been to Pompeii ? Beautiful

1:01:15

?

1:01:15

city no , last week no .

1:01:16

That's fantastic , beautiful city . But

1:01:18

you see marble

1:01:21

flooring there that has running

1:01:23

water underneath it to cool a proximal environment

1:01:26

. They were doing this back then . They had

1:01:28

lead pipes that took the water and ran

1:01:30

that under the actual flooring system . They

1:01:32

heated the sink .

1:01:33

They were heating their bathhouses they were actually using . There's

1:01:35

actually a blog on my website

1:01:38

that I wrote that talks about the Roman

1:01:40

.

1:01:40

That website yeah .

1:01:43

I've plugged that a few times now . They

1:01:46

have these basically brick legs that

1:01:48

they built and they would actually light a fire on

1:01:50

one side . The term is hypochasm

1:01:53

. So they would light a fire on one side and they have an opening

1:01:55

on the other side and it would actually pull

1:01:57

that smoke and hot air underneath the

1:01:59

bathhouses . This is obviously if you had a few bucks

1:02:01

in the Roman days , you had a hot floor

1:02:04

for your bathhouses , so they would

1:02:06

actually pull that fire through these systems

1:02:08

and it was essentially the first raised

1:02:10

structure . It's amazing .

1:02:14

Yeah , the stuff that they do

1:02:16

is incredible . So let's

1:02:18

go through just the industry impact and sort of . What

1:02:23

reception do you have in

1:02:25

terms of the you're saying it's like a cultural

1:02:27

shift . If

1:02:32

you're saying that in Australia it's 90% to get to 90% , that's obviously

1:02:34

been a transition over time to get to those numbers , correct . What

1:02:36

did you see that we might

1:02:39

, in Canada , might be encountering

1:02:41

as we move forward to be more

1:02:44

raised access .

1:02:45

Our biggest competitor is traditional thinking .

1:02:48

Exactly so what were the things

1:02:50

in Australia that made that Like

1:02:52

? What barriers were broken down in order to achieve

1:02:54

90% ? Because obviously it wasn't that to begin with

1:02:56

.

1:02:58

I think , architecture

1:03:00

, so

1:03:04

architects , play

1:03:06

a part where their

1:03:08

future designs for these environments

1:03:11

, their schools , and we're seeing

1:03:13

now a movement towards

1:03:15

CLT structures , compressed laminated

1:03:17

timber structures , densities

1:03:21

, the dense population we're finding

1:03:23

, rather than going out , they're

1:03:25

going up . Hence

1:03:27

plenum environments , plenum

1:03:30

management under the access flooring system

1:03:32

and really , from

1:03:34

ASP's perspective , educating

1:03:37

the public , educating architecture engineering

1:03:40

, becoming engaged with um

1:03:43

engineering , um developers

1:03:45

, and we had , we now have , developers

1:03:47

approaching asp with regards to

1:03:49

the access floor system . So

1:03:52

normal approach for a design

1:03:54

and um tower

1:03:56

, say um , would be we

1:03:58

would be approached with the architect prior

1:04:01

to it even touching ground

1:04:03

, breaking ground , and we would we be

1:04:05

working with them on the so .

1:04:07

So one vector of change , then , is is

1:04:09

educating the architects to suggest

1:04:12

to the developer , or

1:04:14

whoever the client is . Hey

1:04:16

, you should go with this .

1:04:18

I think the development's like a social permit .

1:04:20

Yeah , you know it's it's almost like a social permit .

1:04:22

Yeah , you know it's almost like a Well , it's their client . The developer

1:04:24

is the architect's client .

1:04:25

Okay , so let me just

1:04:27

conceptualize this for

1:04:29

a second . So if somebody comes

1:04:32

to an architect and says like

1:04:34

I don't want to go , access-raised flooring

1:04:36

in Australia , does someone go ? Well , good

1:04:38

luck finding anyone to not do it . Is that how

1:04:40

it is ? And it's almost a social contract

1:04:43

, like

1:04:45

a professional contract , where people like good luck trying to find that , because

1:04:47

everyone's gone this way . Is

1:04:50

it like trying to get it ? Is it almost like trying to get asbestos

1:04:52

drywall you just can't get it anymore . You

1:04:56

know what I mean .

1:04:57

Like you hear what I'm saying though I told

1:04:59

I'm just trying to think of what are the ?

1:05:00

reasons why it did what it did and how

1:05:03

because Because from your side .

1:05:04

Where can we get it ?

1:05:04

Yeah , where can you get these cues to be able to make ?

1:05:06

change . So I mean costing . I

1:05:08

mean , you know , like if there's costings associated

1:05:10

they don't see , the developer doesn't see a benefit

1:05:12

. With regards to Tennessee , if we're talking the commercial sector

1:05:15

, if the developer doesn't see a

1:05:18

benefit associated with the access floor

1:05:20

system , even once they've looked at other

1:05:23

environments with access flooring system and

1:05:26

they don't see the benefit associated with it , then they're

1:05:28

probably going to get that stage C , they're going to

1:05:30

get that grading of a CD tower as

1:05:32

opposed to an AB , which attracts

1:05:35

a higher client , calibre

1:05:37

tenancy , I would say If

1:05:40

it looks good from the outside and

1:05:42

longer term .

1:05:43

sorry , If it looks good from the outside too

1:05:45

, and good address etc and

1:05:47

well yeah , I

1:05:50

think honestly , one of the biggest problems is

1:05:52

with an access flooring system is people look at

1:05:54

it as you look at line items in the

1:05:57

spreadsheet , so you're just like flooring well , you're

1:05:59

building a tower , so you've got however many

1:06:01

lines on a spreadsheet whether it's mechanical , electrical

1:06:03

, blah , blah , blah , all the way down floor finishes everything and

1:06:05

then you've got a line that says access floor and

1:06:08

it says x amount of dollars per square foot , right

1:06:10

and and that can be , depending on the size

1:06:12

of the building it can be . It can be anywhere

1:06:14

from eight to twenty dollars

1:06:16

a square foot , depending on , again

1:06:19

, economy , scale and complexity . Sure so

1:06:21

when somebody looks at that number and they say , why

1:06:24

, when I look at that number , am I going to plug

1:06:26

that in ? And what they haven't done is

1:06:28

they haven't looked at the cost associated

1:06:31

with all the savings . So when you plug one number

1:06:33

into a spreadsheet , you're able to remove so many other

1:06:35

facets of that build and we can

1:06:37

almost get to a cost neutral , even though the access floor

1:06:39

component is one of the top four or

1:06:41

five expenses in a building

1:06:43

, as

1:06:49

in , we won't call it an expense , we'll call it an investment . So when the

1:06:51

access floor is an investment in the building , there's all these other facets that you can

1:06:53

pull out . A clear cut case . An example we were doing the ExxonMobil

1:06:56

campus years ago and the

1:06:58

economy turned and we were building

1:07:00

five campuses , five campus locations on one

1:07:02

, on one site . Each floor was about

1:07:04

, or each building was five floors . One

1:07:07

of the buildings that we were doing almost last we

1:07:09

were doing the access floor and it had all modular

1:07:12

wiring underneath . So we were plugging , playing , moving

1:07:14

all the panels around , with the cutouts and stuff . The

1:07:16

oil economy literally tanked I can't

1:07:18

remember the 2013

1:07:21

, 2014 . The economy went kind of sideways

1:07:23

. So they actually we actually-established

1:07:26

the tenant fit out during the build . So

1:07:29

instead of it being sectioned offices , we went to

1:07:31

more of a bullpen style layout where they had all the desks in the

1:07:33

middle , and we did that change during

1:07:35

the build . There was no cost to construction , there

1:07:37

was no cost to replan things . It was just really

1:07:40

, everybody came together and said look , we got to change quick

1:07:42

. The

1:07:48

access floor allowed them to do that . So our our biggest competitor and what we have to change

1:07:51

is traditional thinking where people think , no , this building works , overhead everything , boom

1:07:53

, it works . We also got to get buy-in from the developers and the architects

1:07:55

and saying that we can't just pass the cost of all

1:07:57

the fit out to the , to

1:07:59

the potential new owner , when you

1:08:02

sure the developer may take on the initial cost , but

1:08:04

they need to be educated on the fact that it's not

1:08:06

an additional cost . We can get cost neutral

1:08:08

, then you can . Then you can bring clients in

1:08:11

mountain equipment co-op . Here is a perfect

1:08:13

example . In vancouver , when they first

1:08:15

built their space all raised access floor they

1:08:17

had about 150 , 175 employees

1:08:20

, it was all . But two years later they

1:08:22

were all of a sudden at 350 , 400

1:08:25

employees , yeah , and their space adapted

1:08:27

organically to suit their needs . Because they had

1:08:29

the floor Right , they had the raised floor .

1:08:30

Did they have the walls as well ?

1:08:32

They had a lot of . They actually had a very open concept

1:08:34

, yeah , but the joke

1:08:36

that they made was every time somebody got hired

1:08:39

, somebody lost half their desk . Before lost

1:08:44

half their desk before . Now we add to this floor . They were doing all the maintenance themselves

1:08:46

over the weekend . They were adding desks . We had a series of panels that were left with holes

1:08:48

in there and they were just pulling up power . They

1:08:51

knew enough to look forward .

1:08:53

Yeah , yeah , and also in reverse

1:08:55

. So if business for

1:08:57

a particular tenant is slowing

1:08:59

down or it's just that curve , then

1:09:02

they can sublet , so that tenancy

1:09:04

can still maintain the tenancy , but sublet

1:09:07

the tenancy and it can be adapted . The

1:09:09

access floor can take up that adaption for

1:09:12

a new tenancy , a new sublet

1:09:14

tenancy .

1:09:15

And it's so much more inviting to clients because you're

1:09:17

not . The cost of construction is just not

1:09:19

there . You're not running

1:09:21

all new infrastructure everywhere . So schools , for

1:09:23

example , universities , tell us all the time look , the

1:09:26

reason we're going access floor is because we're a business

1:09:28

. We've got to attract new talent . The talent

1:09:30

that they're attracting is students , albeit foreign

1:09:32

or domestic students , that they're trying to attract . It's a business

1:09:35

, yeah , it's a business , right ? So what they need to

1:09:37

do is they need to say look , a potential

1:09:39

applicant , why are you going to choose us ? You know , share

1:09:42

our programs or whatever , but we can also have the , the

1:09:44

ability for you to plug in your wi-fi hots

1:09:46

, whatever the connectivity issue is with a

1:09:48

raised floor . They're not going through

1:09:50

a two to five year cycle

1:09:52

where they're completely reno in the school to add that

1:09:54

new technology technology . You've

1:09:56

heard the . You know . Look what we've done the last hundred

1:09:58

years . Look how fast it's going every year .

1:10:00

The technology is just going faster and faster

1:10:03

and faster yeah it's factoring , yeah , and

1:10:05

the component of AI into the industry

1:10:07

as well . I mean that's going to change All right , Paul

1:10:09

, tell us about that . Access is right there Come on , let's have

1:10:11

it .

1:10:11

No , it's true , I know , but tell us about the AI .

1:10:13

I want to know .

1:10:16

You Canadians are aggressive . Oh

1:10:24

yeah , very , we call it Bolt , curious , curious .

1:10:25

I'm curious anyway . So tell us about the AI . How is AI going ?

1:10:27

So the access floor can take up that adaptability

1:10:30

as technologies improve , even

1:10:32

in medical facilities , hospitals

1:10:34

with robotics , the high cabling

1:10:37

, the high thickness of cablings . So

1:10:39

we're quite .

1:10:40

So what is the AI part , though ? Or would you just

1:10:42

throw that out there ?

1:10:43

No , well , within

1:10:45

universities there's that

1:10:47

high-tech component , so

1:10:49

the tech component now , when you're like so

1:10:52

we've gone into several schools that we've done recently

1:10:54

and we've put the raised-access

1:10:57

flooring in , we've had the electrical boxes , we

1:11:00

have USB connectivity , they've got fiber optics and

1:11:02

then now they need to add components to that , whether

1:11:04

it's uh , we have got wireless hubs underneath

1:11:06

the ground . Well , whatever the

1:11:08

, whatever the wireless hubs . So , like

1:11:10

you know , like wireless , uh , like routers , like

1:11:12

like routers and things like that built into the access

1:11:15

flooring system so that can be moved around as well

1:11:17

. So , so you can have the whole plate and antenna

1:11:19

. It's . It's literally a box that goes inside

1:11:21

the raised access floor . That can promote that . Yeah

1:11:23

, but with the universities

1:11:25

and schools instead

1:11:27

of a school after five , like you said . Factoring

1:11:30

is so important , right , because that factoring of technology

1:11:32

is expanding . So

1:11:35

when we have a situation where a school comes to us and says

1:11:37

we have a raised floor , we can go in over the weekend

1:11:39

. We can remove a bunch of panels , the

1:11:41

fascia plates if it's a tiered lecture hall , we

1:11:44

carve them out , put usb connectivity in there

1:11:46

for the students or whatever , whatever they

1:11:48

require , but it's done over a weekend and

1:11:50

then they're back to it monday morning . Yeah , you're not shutting

1:11:52

down for weeks or months at a time do you have all of those

1:11:54

uh connectivity ?

1:11:55

little yeah on your site .

1:11:57

If you go up a little bit , um , let's

1:11:59

go to , if you go back to the raised access flooring

1:12:01

for a second and let's see if we can

1:12:03

pull you down to the bottom a little bit , let's

1:12:06

keep going . Let's see if we can get down to

1:12:09

the that's underfloor

1:12:11

air . Keep going a little bit . Further Data

1:12:13

Look at me lying to you Back

1:12:15

to the top . We've got modular power on here somewhere .

1:12:18

Let's go back , if I go any further .

1:12:19

You've got to go back to the top . You're always going

1:12:22

Under floor , magnus

1:12:25

. Let's keep going for a second here and see what we've got . Magnus

1:12:27

again there he is . Let's try this . Let's

1:12:29

try going onto the blog for one sec and

1:12:31

let's see what I've written . The blog

1:12:33

, the blog . Yeah , all

1:12:36

right , keep going down , keep going

1:12:38

down . Modular power , plug and play . Click

1:12:40

on that one for a sec . See that image . So

1:12:42

the image gives you an idea there of the plug

1:12:45

and play . So we've got no

1:12:48

images on here , unfortunately . But so when we're talking about modular

1:12:50

power , plug and play and connectivity

1:12:52

, if we're talking about the

1:12:55

traditional system , so

1:12:59

you've got what we call like a junction box or a power

1:13:01

distribution box . So the power

1:13:03

distribution box is hardwired by the electrician . So

1:13:07

from there the power distribution box is hardwired by the electrician . So from there the power

1:13:09

is distributed by plug and play technology . So it's a connector cable that plugs

1:13:12

into the box , which then plugs into either a , a furniture system or be an electrical box . An electrical box is a floor mounted box . You can kind

1:13:14

of see under the guy's desk those wires come up . Yeah okay

1:13:16

yeah , so those boxes ?

1:13:17

that's pretty cool .

1:13:17

So it's herman miller , you guys dealing with them yeah , yeah

1:13:20

, that's uh , so that's uh , that's furniture system

1:13:22

. So we actually have technologies that will adapt

1:13:24

to herman , miller , uh , steel case

1:13:26

, all the different types of steel case . Yeah , yeah yeah

1:13:29

, yeah , um , we work with a company

1:13:31

in toronto called electec , and they do all of the

1:13:33

modular wiring components . The only thing that we've

1:13:35

done differently is we've patented a box design

1:13:37

. The lid of our box is actually

1:13:39

rated for the same rolling load as the

1:13:42

floor . Yeah , historically there's

1:13:44

been issues .

1:13:44

So it can be lower ?

1:13:45

you mean no . So what happens is historically

1:13:48

, people are rolling , say , carts or money

1:13:51

carts , a casino , whatever . They're rolling a heavy load or

1:13:53

the chair even , and they hit the box and the box

1:13:55

collapses because it's plastic . So we've patented

1:13:57

a box where the lid is actually rated

1:13:59

for the same rolling load as the access floor . So

1:14:02

now the entire floor plate is , say , 1,250

1:14:04

pounds .

1:14:04

That's cool , yeah . Nice , that's

1:14:06

awesome , yeah . So

1:14:09

let's get into a little bit of

1:14:12

the future , of where things are

1:14:14

going . Do you guys think about the

1:14:17

future of these products and who

1:14:19

will be installing them ? Will robots

1:14:22

be doing it at some point ?

1:14:23

We're having this conversation about a robot today .

1:14:25

I saw the painting one . Have you seen that one ?

1:14:27

Yeah , I have seen the painting one . That's pretty dope , amazing

1:14:30

. It's cool . I'm

1:14:34

all for the next technology . I'm all for how

1:14:36

we have to train the new generation of people that

1:14:38

wants to be building and programming those robots . So

1:14:42

I'm not necessarily on the side of robots

1:14:44

stealing our jobs . Now , there's always going to be

1:14:46

a place for humans . I think utopian

1:14:49

is all of us just sitting on an Australian beach somewhere

1:14:51

watching robots do all the work for us Dystopian or utopian

1:14:54

, yeah , utopian .

1:14:55

I'm going to say utopian .

1:14:56

See , I'm glass half full Glass , half full

1:14:58

Bold , very bold . The

1:15:07

future of raised access floor , I think is , is in . I think now um technologies are going to be catching

1:15:09

up to where asp is in terms of again providing different solutions for different environments

1:15:11

. Um hindering

1:15:13

or hindering on the sustainability

1:15:16

aspect , which is very important in

1:15:18

terms of installation , robot

1:15:20

, robot installation for access floor . I I

1:15:23

struggle to try and see how that would work , especially

1:15:25

because every environment is so different . Right

1:15:27

, so we do what if it has ?

1:15:28

a BIM drawing then .

1:15:30

I know , but for the actual installation component

1:15:32

you're going to have to actually

1:15:34

have some of the access floor installed to put the

1:15:36

robot on the access floor , because you can't have him

1:15:38

rolling on the slab because nine times out of 10 , there's

1:15:40

so much infrastructure already on the floor prior

1:15:43

to the access floor going in that

1:15:45

I don't believe a robot's going to work perfectly . Now , maybe

1:15:48

some jobs are going to work . I don't know how a robot would

1:15:50

necessarily take over , but let's just look

1:15:52

like way down . I think , yeah the .

1:15:54

thing that's going on might be different , Maybe

1:15:56

different yeah . In general Like the floor plate might

1:15:58

be completely different Everything could be different .

1:15:59

Correct , the building may be very modular

1:16:01

, which we've already seen .

1:16:03

So I mean we do do quite a bit of modular buildings . So

1:16:05

we do do like shipping containers that

1:16:07

are built to be shipped up north for the oil sands

1:16:09

. We put a raised floor in there , Everything's ran and

1:16:11

then they get shipped out . So there's actually a site right

1:16:14

around the corner from our showroom that does

1:16:16

modular buildings I can't remember the name of the

1:16:18

company now floor in them and then they ship them out . That's great

1:16:20

. So all the services are underneath and these containers

1:16:23

go to site Boom .

1:16:26

Is robotics moving ? Is it more

1:16:28

popular in Australia ? Do

1:16:31

you see the uptake of all that stuff ?

1:16:32

Within the access floor industry

1:16:34

.

1:16:34

No construction in general .

1:16:35

Construction , not that I've seen

1:16:37

, no , no , is there chitter

1:16:40

chatter about it ? There may be education

1:16:42

circles , but I haven't seen it .

1:16:45

No , we haven't seen a robot painting any walls yet either . I've

1:16:49

seen it on the videos On site . No , we

1:16:51

haven't seen any .

1:16:53

The coolest thing I've seen on site is the layout

1:16:55

robots . You've seen those guys ? Yeah , I

1:16:57

had the guys on it . Oh , did you ? Yeah , those

1:16:59

are cool .

1:17:00

I think potentially manufacturing . I yeah , those are cool . I

1:17:02

think potentially manufacture .

1:17:03

I think manufacturing is going to go all . Yeah , automation

1:17:06

is .

1:17:06

Yeah , correct yeah .

1:17:08

That's , I think , where we'll see it Once . That industry

1:17:10

is like raised access floors . I

1:17:16

mean the manufacturing of ASP's panels , primarily fully

1:17:18

automated , with the exception of some of the finishes that go

1:17:20

on , but the actual

1:17:22

manufacturing of it is virtually .

1:17:24

I mean , that's how we sort of also

1:17:26

achieve that quality component

1:17:28

. Is that human factor ? So

1:17:30

, with regards to our timbers , architectural

1:17:34

designs on

1:17:37

the timbers , on stones and things like that

1:17:39

. That's all human For

1:17:41

now , finishes For now , yeah

1:17:43

For now , yeah For now .

1:17:45

That's actually the kind of stuff that

1:17:48

this will do really well . It's classic

1:17:50

, no , but this is anything

1:17:53

that was like a , anything

1:17:56

that had a model of what quality was

1:17:59

will be

1:18:01

, redone , I

1:18:03

would agree with that too .

1:18:04

I hear what you're saying .

1:18:05

Yeah the human craftsmanship can

1:18:08

be emulated . It just can't , especially

1:18:10

when it's . I mean , you're not talking about

1:18:12

art . Art is so true . I

1:18:15

mean , even you could anything can copy

1:18:17

art . But when anything's modular and it's been

1:18:19

made a thousand times and you just need to model

1:18:21

something that

1:18:23

will be more .

1:18:25

I mean , we see , some great prototyping

1:18:28

and we're asked to do some great prototyping for

1:18:30

access floor systems , with architecture

1:18:33

and interior design and

1:18:35

there's just some talented heads out

1:18:37

there on the planet it's just

1:18:40

and it is art . You know , and I know you sort

1:18:42

of said it isn't some of some works are

1:18:44

art . So from a particular angulation

1:18:46

, the access floor system looks

1:18:48

like a receding tower that's been

1:18:51

parquet into the access

1:18:53

floor system with timbers . So

1:18:56

there's some great things that can be done

1:18:58

Creativity-wise yeah , creativity-wise

1:19:00

, with access flooring system , which we haven't really seen

1:19:02

, and the architectural

1:19:05

, the interior design component that

1:19:08

is open with our access floor systems

1:19:10

. That's attracting some interest

1:19:12

, which is great .

1:19:14

It's great for clients , it's great for buildings , it's

1:19:16

great for humans going into those types of environments

1:19:19

they

1:19:26

want to go back to work , maybe to walk over our access , even like I got one point to make , even

1:19:28

about the uh , the advancements that we're making . Technology , like even our software that we have

1:19:30

now and I'm not going to say our , our software is

1:19:33

, by any means , you know , heads and tails over

1:19:35

anybody else's . We have a software that says you

1:19:37

rearrange the access floor grid to suit

1:19:39

this . It may push us say an inch this way

1:19:41

, an inch that way . It'll tell us that , hey , that

1:19:44

wall over there , you can use the cutoff

1:19:46

piece here , you can go throw it over there , you

1:19:48

can use that triangle , that cutoff piece over there .

1:19:51

So that the software tells

1:19:53

you yeah , the most cost-effective

1:19:55

we have .

1:19:57

We know we use a software . Uh , it's a takeoff software

1:19:59

that we use stack takeoff

1:20:02

software and what it does is when we work with ASP

1:20:04

on their CAD and their BIM modeling , we

1:20:07

use the two softwares together and it'll basically say to

1:20:09

us like we'll shift the grid one

1:20:11

way or another and it's just a very simple CAD program that will

1:20:14

actually give us the the okay , this is 12 inches

1:20:16

, the panel is 24 inches . You've got an eight inch piece

1:20:18

over on this wall . We now know that we

1:20:20

can use all of that row over there

1:20:22

.

1:20:22

So do you see a future where I mean

1:20:24

this is a great picture

1:20:26

, uh , to be able to imagine . So

1:20:29

you have your pedestals . Could you imagine a

1:20:32

robot going and laying down down those

1:20:34

in perfect sequence , perfect

1:20:37

front , to back on a

1:20:39

?

1:20:42

I'm going to say today . I'm

1:20:44

going to say no . The only reason I say no today is I

1:20:46

think there's just too many obstacles . Okay

1:20:49

, I would say that that would work if we could get

1:20:51

rid of and eliminate the other

1:20:53

obstacles that are in the way . So the other

1:20:55

obstacles may be the other types of building that is going on , the Caesar lift that's running

1:20:57

around the electrician's , running around the of building that is going on the other season

1:20:59

that's running around the electricians

1:21:01

running electrician with conduits on the ground you've

1:21:03

got mechanical . Potentially under the ground there's

1:21:05

data cabling , the cable tray . So if we

1:21:07

can circumnavigate that too , plus a

1:21:10

lot of the times when these pedestals are going down , the way

1:21:12

that we do it and the way it's done is the pedestals are glued down right , so there's

1:21:14

a specific seal bond glue that's used . It's an access floor pedestal adhesive . They are glued

1:21:16

down right , so there's a specific seal bond glue that's used . It's an access

1:21:18

floor pedestal adhesive . They're glued down

1:21:20

and as the boys come behind it and

1:21:22

they're putting the tile on , those pedestals are actually slightly

1:21:24

moved into place . They're done wet purposely

1:21:27

because we can just never line them up . A

1:21:29

lot of times people say , hey , will you come to site

1:21:31

and do all your pedestals , leave

1:21:33

and come back and do your tiles ? No , it's a . We glue a

1:21:35

pedestal , we level the pedestal , the tile

1:21:38

gets pulled . We move the pedestal so it lines

1:21:40

up , screw it in . I mean robotics could

1:21:42

get there .

1:21:42

It could do it , and .

1:21:44

I'm definitely . I'm a huge fan of AI

1:21:46

. I'm a huge fan of robotics in general

1:21:48

. Paul loves AI , paul is

1:21:50

AI , paul knows a lot about AI . I'm

1:21:52

a huge fan of it and

1:21:59

it's really I don't want to say it's definitely not impossible Will it get there ? Absolutely . I'm just

1:22:01

what I see today on site what the constraints we have on site , even from a human

1:22:04

building it , where we've got to step over things and

1:22:07

move a box , put a pedestal . There's

1:22:09

a huge human element . We work so closely

1:22:11

and so well with the electricians on most sites . They're

1:22:14

putting cable trays down as we go . They're grounding

1:22:16

the access flooring system may have to be grounded

1:22:18

.

1:22:18

Uh , copper wires yeah , you're negotiating

1:22:21

and time and movements and

1:22:24

a robot that just does things systematically

1:22:26

.

1:22:26

Now , I'd actually say , a robot would have to work in

1:22:28

conjunction with a robot that's laying the conduit

1:22:31

, which is laying the power , which is laying

1:22:33

the hvac system , if there is one . Um , so

1:22:36

they'd all have to work in unison . Do

1:22:38

I see it happening ? Absolutely , I think one

1:22:40

day . Yeah , look at what China was doing

1:22:42

that last skyscraper they put up in like four

1:22:45

days .

1:22:46

Especially if you're talking , like you said , modular

1:22:48

.

1:22:48

Yeah modular , modular construction .

1:22:50

It's repetitive . Putting in an access floor

1:22:52

is potentially repetitive

1:22:54

within a set area .

1:22:56

There was a new hospital that's being

1:22:58

built here Huge project , the

1:23:00

new St Paul's Hospital . Do you think they did raised

1:23:03

access floor ?

1:23:03

They did floor , I believe , in

1:23:06

the MRI rooms , so

1:23:09

they ran all the cabling under the MRI room . So raised

1:23:11

access floor does have a place in hospitals , but

1:23:13

there is that cleanliness

1:23:16

and bacterial component , albeit

1:23:21

they needed the ability to say flood

1:23:23

the floor and wash it off . That's why they have the coved . So

1:23:27

, we can use a raised floor . We would use urban interlock

1:23:29

in hospital situations and they put a sheet good , so

1:23:32

they wouldn't necessarily have access floor . They would

1:23:34

have a plenum space created by the urban interlock

1:23:36

and we would have a series of access hatches

1:23:38

for different things .

1:23:43

So raised no access floor . Pretty much , yeah , in a funny way , you're utilizing the plenum

1:23:45

space . Yeah , in that type of environment you don't need to get out under there all the

1:23:47

time , right , but it's able to manage those high

1:23:50

rolls , low rolling loads , um

1:23:52

, that fluctuate from human traffic , but the mri

1:23:54

rooms yeah , because you got all the cable and it comes in

1:23:56

.

1:23:56

And those are the machines . Technology is changing and the

1:23:58

technology is exactly data and communication

1:24:00

rooms there's also in those hospitals . Yeah , so

1:24:02

there's always a , there's always some type of a data

1:24:04

and comms room in the hospital and some hospitals

1:24:07

over that hide standard what about ?

1:24:08

hallways . It can

1:24:10

be done . Oh , definitely , yeah , 100 , but they're

1:24:13

all .

1:24:13

They all have to be the animal .

1:24:14

They do right , so we would . We would look to an access

1:24:16

flowing system that would accept a sheet good .

1:24:19

Yeah , and just roll

1:24:21

vinyl , because you do need that bacterial component

1:24:23

, that clean component , that infection

1:24:26

control management .

1:24:28

The best scenario I can say to an access flowing

1:24:30

system . Take the casino environment and look

1:24:32

at how it adapts in a casino environment and

1:24:35

that's where that technology is . I mean the hospitals

1:24:37

.

1:24:38

They may not be… so we're seeing it being taken

1:24:41

up in the medical field , medical architecture

1:24:44

and infrastructure . It's just increasing

1:24:46

year on year for those types of environments

1:24:48

Like dentist's office .

1:24:49

Those are all too , because all the chairs and stuff .

1:24:50

Oh yeah , dentist's office yeah medical facilities , chiropractors

1:24:53

, all those types of medical General practitioners . Those are

1:24:55

really , and they .

1:24:55

Those are really and they're saying the same

1:24:57

things . They're factoring in that technological advancements

1:24:59

that they're having . Everything is just advancing so rapidly

1:25:02

.

1:25:02

Yeah , especially the dentists . You'll see the cables

1:25:04

and stuff all over the ground . The

1:25:06

cabling is like monstering cabling .

1:25:08

It is yeah Instead of

1:25:10

having those things where you'd walk over . You know how you

1:25:12

have wires in the ground you walk yeah , and at the

1:25:14

end of the day I've got rolls of them over there

1:25:16

.

1:25:17

We don't use them and at the end of the day , they're tendencies

1:25:19

and

1:25:22

they should be managed like a tendency as well , because today the dentist will

1:25:24

be there and tomorrow he'll be in

1:25:28

a hospital , in a larger facility , who knows

1:25:30

? And that tendency moves on .

1:25:32

So it's interesting when the what

1:25:36

sort of does

1:25:39

it change the relationship of the

1:25:41

money attached to a TI and what

1:25:44

you're leaving , like when you move

1:25:46

somewhere ? Like , let's say , I go

1:25:48

into a place and I've got a $200,000

1:25:50

TI budget . What

1:25:54

sucks about that is when I leave .

1:25:55

I've left $200,000 in this place not

1:25:57

with modular finishes so

1:26:00

just take me through that part on

1:26:02

where what I can take with me

1:26:04

so it depends , like if you've

1:26:07

got a base build like which is just

1:26:09

the raw core access floor with no

1:26:11

finishes on the top , which some

1:26:13

developers do and then the tendencies

1:26:15

as they're tenanted out , the tenancy

1:26:17

comes in and designs their space and

1:26:20

you can utilize magnetic finishes

1:26:22

, porcelains and literally

1:26:25

once that- .

1:26:25

So I could take the porcelain , you could take the porcelain away . So what

1:26:27

is considered in the

1:26:30

? What do they say ? Anything that's attached .

1:26:32

Base build , yeah , base build . So the access

1:26:34

floor would be considered nine times out of 10 .

1:26:36

The system would be , but maybe not the finish . The

1:26:38

finish is no , or it could be , so

1:26:42

this could be some value . Would there be a reseller

1:26:44

market for that stuff ? Definitely .

1:26:46

We were talking about this this morning . A lot of companies

1:26:49

in Europe have that model . We talk

1:26:52

to companies all the time that are simply refurbishing existing

1:26:54

access floors .

1:26:54

That's all two foot by two foot , whatever you want to find Nice , refurbishing existing access

1:26:56

floors , that's all . Two foot by two foot , two foot by two foot . Whatever you want to find

1:26:58

Nice , that's pretty cool .

1:26:59

So typically with a development here , we

1:27:01

would see the access floor going like Telus Ocean

1:27:03

is an example they're going in as base build . Telus

1:27:06

is taking three floors . There's three floors remaining

1:27:08

unoccupied so they're going to tenant those out . So

1:27:13

they're actually giving the elevator that's going to be part of

1:27:15

the base build . Any of the finishes that are done in

1:27:17

the tenant space . That tenant moves out , they own those finishes

1:27:19

. The access floor stays With the modular

1:27:21

finishes . The access floor now maintains new . It's

1:27:23

not sticky with glue and screeds and all that . So

1:27:26

the new tenant now comes in . So what about the

1:27:28

walls ? The walls , same thing . Right , you

1:27:31

can take the wall systems with you . It's like your furniture

1:27:33

If you have this . The table

1:27:35

is no different than the glass wall system . The glass

1:27:37

wall systems are categorized as a furniture component

1:27:39

. They

1:27:42

fall into that category . So you can literally like if you're going to move today and

1:27:45

you're going to go next door , you're taking a table with you . If you had your glass partitions

1:27:47

up here , you can take those with you . Interesting , interesting

1:27:49

.

1:27:50

So let's

1:27:54

say , a landlord

1:27:57

, landlord , mm-hmm

1:27:59

.

1:27:59

I don't know . Yeah , let's just call it that for lack

1:28:01

of a better term .

1:28:02

Had two potential clients that

1:28:04

were going to go into a space . One's like no

1:28:07

, I want to go , raised access floor and

1:28:09

modular walls . Another one's like no , I

1:28:11

don't believe in that , I want to go the other way

1:28:14

. I want to have a , you

1:28:19

know , just traditional build . Do you think the the landlord would be would

1:28:22

want the other one ? Because he's going to keep

1:28:24

all the stuff and the other ones at

1:28:26

the end of their nightmare relationship

1:28:28

? At the end , the guy's going to be pulling out the furniture

1:28:31

. Air quotes , right , which also means

1:28:33

that they're

1:28:35

moving out at the midnight runs a little

1:28:37

harder .

1:28:38

Well , I mean

1:28:40

, I suppose it depends where you are on

1:28:42

the planet , but certainly what we see

1:28:44

is that they go more for the access

1:28:47

floor component because it is

1:28:49

there's a much better

1:28:51

business plan .

1:28:52

So they'll be left with something else .

1:28:54

The developer gets an access floor out of it . That's what I'm

1:28:56

saying .

1:28:57

So that's the benefit , that's the benefit . So they would probably

1:28:59

be like oh great , okay good . We don't care if you

1:29:01

take your finishes on the top .

1:29:03

Because , think about this the developer can then tell you to the next

1:29:05

tenant after that , guess what we get ? This is RAF

1:29:07

, this is RAF . We've already got it here , so

1:29:14

You're now spending $75 a

1:29:16

foot . It's pretty awesome , pretty awesome . It just makes

1:29:18

sense the investment and the

1:29:20

education needs to happen at

1:29:22

the early stages so we can see

1:29:24

those cost savings . Because even if we get

1:29:26

in at a virtually cost-neutral solution from base

1:29:29

, build the givebacks year over year

1:29:31

or tenancy changes five , ten years

1:29:33

, that's where you start to see significant cost

1:29:35

savings for everybody , not just developers

1:29:37

, but new tenants , old tenants , everybody is realizing

1:29:39

those cost savings for everybody , not just developers , but new tenants , old tenants Everybody

1:29:42

is realizing those cost savings .

1:29:43

I like that because you know what ? Even

1:29:45

when I look at I'll give you a perfect

1:29:47

example this studio here . When we got this place

1:29:49

, I just painted

1:29:51

the floor black Because

1:29:54

I don't want to put any money in here , because

1:29:56

when this is too small I don't want to leave like

1:29:59

$2,000 with the carpet

1:30:01

or carpet tile or whatever . Yeah , and leave money in the

1:30:03

place , but also

1:30:05

, at the same time , even carpet tile is glued

1:30:07

down , you've got the glue problem , it's

1:30:10

going to go into a landfill , et cetera

1:30:12

. So having this secondary marketplace for

1:30:14

the materials of the finishes , that's wicked

1:30:17

Like that . To me , that

1:30:19

makes perfect sense .

1:30:20

What's really cool about the finishes ? Let's say unfortunately

1:30:22

if you break one . Let's say you drop something on a tile

1:30:24

that breaks just pop it out , you put a new one in , like

1:30:27

there's that aspect to it too .

1:30:28

In order for so the transition from

1:30:30

, let's say , the , the front

1:30:33

door there .

1:30:34

Yeah , the front door I , so we what's you

1:30:36

need , like two inches , so we would do like

1:30:38

if we came in here , um , what we would do is we

1:30:40

would ramp up and we probably put about a two and a half inch

1:30:42

floor , depending on the the deviation

1:30:44

of the slab , which probably wouldn't be too bad in a

1:30:46

small area like this . Two and a half inches

1:30:48

. What that allows us to do is maintain a perfectly

1:30:51

flat floor . So our ramp , if it's two

1:30:53

and a half inches high , our ramp is two and a half feet long

1:30:55

, so inch up , foot out .

1:30:57

So inch up , foot out , and so 12

1:30:59

to 1 .

1:30:59

So a t-shirt , I do . Yeah , I go . It's on the

1:31:01

back . Yes , there's one inch up , is it right ? No , just

1:31:04

, I don't have any sleeves on it . The

1:31:09

uh , so we would ramp up from the front door . So you'd open

1:31:11

the front door , you'd walk up on a ramp , um

1:31:13

, and then you would be , you'd be on , so this table

1:31:15

here would be on your power . That's coming

1:31:18

up into your table . We have the same thing in our showroom

1:31:20

.

1:31:20

All the power is maintained . This is pain in the ass

1:31:22

, so for a

1:31:24

podcast studio .

1:31:25

It's perfect . I mean again

1:31:29

, there's no environment that it doesn't

1:31:31

work . Even in Calgary we're seeing a lot

1:31:33

of office to residential conversions because

1:31:35

we need to fill the vacancy

1:31:37

before we're going to be allowed to build new commercial

1:31:39

towers . I guess you can stick plumbing right now , that's exactly

1:31:42

right so what we're seeing in the office conversions

1:31:44

to residential is that they're using the access floor

1:31:46

to service the space below , so

1:31:48

they're actually bringing components down to

1:31:50

the ceiling whether sprinkler or plumbing

1:31:53

.

1:31:53

That's pretty cool , are you ?

1:31:54

seeing that in .

1:31:54

Australia too .

1:31:56

No , not that . Like . We have a housing issue

1:31:58

, housing crisis issue , so we haven't seen

1:32:00

commercial builds being

1:32:02

renewed . For , yeah

1:32:04

, you seem to have a demand for it here

1:32:06

.

1:32:07

The opposite . In Calgary We've got too much vacant space

1:32:09

, unfortunately right now downtown office space . So before

1:32:11

we're going to be building any more

1:32:13

A-grade commercial facilities , we

1:32:16

need to get rid of some of the vacant space we have , which is

1:32:18

interesting .

1:32:19

It's great Because the adaptability to convert

1:32:21

from a commercial infrastructure

1:32:23

to residential Because typically plumbing

1:32:25

is the biggest problem .

1:32:26

Well , typically , in an office building , all your plumbing and bathrooms

1:32:28

are stacked on top of each other . That's the

1:32:30

design . But in a residential scenario it's not

1:32:33

quite like that .

1:32:34

You've got multiple bathrooms on a floor .

1:32:36

Having a raised floor allows you to take from

1:32:38

those chase walls or those

1:32:40

risers and spread left , right

1:32:42

, side to side or down . So we

1:32:45

did a project at University of Calgary . It was

1:32:47

an existing building and the building was

1:32:49

very old so it didn't have a sprinkler mandate at the

1:32:51

time . So when they redid the building , the

1:32:53

development and they actually reshrouded it

1:32:55

, it was really cool . They added a floor . Super neat building

1:32:57

. They used the raised floor to

1:32:59

house obviously all the technology but also to puncture

1:33:02

through the roof to add sprinklers

1:33:04

. So

1:33:06

instead of having the sprinklers on the ceiling

1:33:08

underneath they punctured through the raised floor and just

1:33:10

had all the plumbing .

1:33:13

There's also an argument to get rid of T-bar

1:33:16

.

1:33:16

That's correct .

1:33:17

So that you can pull up

1:33:19

and pop correct so that you can pull up and pop off

1:33:21

, so our cost model that we have

1:33:24

.

1:33:24

That we've done over the years in order to get to kind of

1:33:26

that cost neutral solution . We do

1:33:28

, unfortunately , remove all the ceiling components

1:33:30

Because we see it basically just left open as a slab

1:33:32

, just whitewash the concrete

1:33:34

. The only thing that's left in the ceiling is

1:33:37

lighting and life safety , so sprinklers

1:33:39

. Everything else is under the floor . So part

1:33:41

of that cost neutral , you're not always doing hvac

1:33:44

on the bottom of the floor not always no , no . So I'm talking

1:33:46

about , like I say , a new build , for example right so if we're

1:33:48

, if we can , if we can get in a new build design

1:33:50

build scenario , we're putting an access floor with ufad

1:33:52

. Part of the cost saving structure

1:33:54

that we put forward is removal of that t-bar

1:33:56

ceiling . So your materials , your cost to

1:33:58

install all that stuff , so you remove it . These are

1:34:00

horrible . Yeah , I mean they work

1:34:02

, but why need ? You , don't need . If you've got nothing to

1:34:04

hide , you don't need it and you know what

1:34:06

it can do . What's really neat with a commercial tower is

1:34:09

if you open the ceiling system up now you've

1:34:16

probably got about 20 to 24 inches . We can do

1:34:18

the same thing in seven or eight with an access floor

1:34:20

. So seven or eight inches access floor , you

1:34:23

can actually save 12 to 14

1:34:25

inches of curtain wall of concrete

1:34:27

. So in a 50-story tower with access floor

1:34:29

versus its neighbor , his

1:34:31

neighbor would have 47 , 48 floors . You'd

1:34:33

have 50 in the same height because you're shrinking

1:34:36

that slab to slab . So there's all those cost

1:34:38

savings to go into it too . That's

1:34:43

for the next podcast , maybe , but oh yeah , yeah , there's so many cool things that that

1:34:45

that the raised floor can do for a building . Um , you know , and even even if you're

1:34:47

just putting that technology platform , you're removing all that

1:34:49

stuff from the ceiling . We see a lot now where they're

1:34:51

spraying just the duct work , leaving it , removing

1:34:54

all the wires and everything from putting it onto the floor and I just

1:34:56

have that exposed ceiling . It gives you the illusion of

1:34:58

a much higher ceiling .

1:35:03

So , paul , just from from your interaction here , are you mostly repping

1:35:05

the product side , telling people how to , how they can