0:00

So here we are . How are you ?

0:02

doing today ? How was the drive up ? It was

0:04

great . Came up last night , beautiful drive it

0:06

was Can everybody hear him yeah

0:09

, everything's good .

0:09

Okay , all right . How

0:11

are you doing , chris ?

0:13

Yeah , drive up was great . Left Victoria

0:15

this morning Made it here in no

0:17

time . It was awesome . Great drive up and , like you

0:19

say , lots of construction .

0:21

All right , paul , how are you doing ? I

0:23

mean Jeff , jeff , sorry , jeff , how are you doing ? Great

0:25

start , great start . Yeah , that's how it is .

0:28

Yeah , no , we came up last night , me and my wife , and then

0:30

we had a strategy session all day with

0:32

the VRCA and I feel like

0:34

I missed the wardrobe memo . I

0:37

think I need to be wearing a sport jacket or something here

0:39

.

0:39

Well , did we do the axe throwing

0:41

this year ? We didn't do the axe throwing , I was trying to do

0:43

the construction thing right ?

0:45

No , no , it's perfect .

0:47

Welcome to the Site . Visit Podcast , leadership

0:50

and perspective from construction

0:52

With your host , james

0:54

Falkner

0:57

.

0:58

Business as usual as it has been for

1:01

so long now that it goes back to what we

1:03

were talking about before and hitting the reset button . You

1:05

know you read all the books , you read the emails , you read

1:07

scaling up .

1:08

You read good to great . You know I could

1:10

go on . We've got to a place where we

1:12

found the secret serum .

1:14

We found the secret potion . We can get

1:16

the workers in . We know where to get them . Once I was on

1:18

the job site for a while and actually we had

1:20

some extra concrete and I ordered like

1:22

a Korean-Finnish patio . Oh

1:24

fun , did you say ? Chill these days . I

1:26

was down in Dallas and a guy

1:29

just hit me up on LinkedIn out of the

1:31

blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to

1:33

Dallas to meet with me because he heard

1:35

the Favourite Connect platform on

1:37

your guys' podcast Home . It crush it

1:39

and love it and we celebrate these values

1:41

every single day . Let's get down to it

1:44

.

1:47

Let's

1:51

get down to it , okay . So can

1:53

we have everyone's attention for a little bit here , because

1:55

it's pretty loud , right , you guys feel it's

1:57

pretty loud , we can be louder , you

2:00

can be louder , okay , you

2:02

can , okay . So

2:07

let's just talk about the brand of construction and what we mean about this . So one thing I think we

2:09

need to look at is that poster

2:11

on the left-hand side here . So

2:14

this builder's life is

2:16

what we're trying to portray out there

2:18

in the world , because we

2:20

don't think the world actually understands

2:23

construction and the opportunity

2:25

of construction and it has a lot of misconceptions

2:28

. Do you guys all agree with that A hundred

2:30

percent ? Okay , great . So do

2:33

you think it would be apropos

2:36

to classify

2:38

everybody who is not in construction as

2:41

the dwellers or the occupiers ? Those

2:43

are the ones that get to enjoy everything that everybody gets to build . They're the dwellers or the occupiers . Those

2:45

are the ones that get to enjoy everything that everybody gets to build

2:47

. They're the dwellers . Let's

2:50

just call them the dwellers . This is the outside

2:52

world . So let's just

2:54

talk about the dwellers for a minute . Do the

2:56

dwellers really understand construction

2:59

? What do they think about it ? So I

3:01

got a bunch of questions here . So let's go to the old mobile

3:04

phone . All

3:12

right , so the first one is let's go around the panel here for a second

3:15

. So do you think the outside world

3:17

has a congruent idea with the

3:19

inside world of construction ? So

3:21

what they all think out there

3:23

in the world , the dwellers , versus

3:26

us , the people inside , maybe

3:28

? Why don't we start with you ?

3:30

Sure , I don't think they do . Construction

3:33

is one of the best careers you

3:35

can have for opportunity . You know , if you

3:37

learn , work

3:39

hard and keep at it , it's almost an unlimited

3:41

opportunity , much better than most other industries

3:44

. And it's a lot of fun too

3:46

. It's great people , great

3:48

work environment and you get to leave

3:50

lasting monuments behind

3:52

things like this hotel or new

3:55

St Paul's Hospital or whatever it may be right . You

3:57

can look back on your career and say

3:59

I contributed to that and it's very satisfying

4:01

.

4:02

Right , okay , so there's the

4:04

I built something kind of thing

4:06

, the pride around building

4:08

something . Okay , chris , what do you think

4:10

?

4:12

I think , to answer your question , the outside world

4:14

generally has no idea what

4:17

we do . I think that

4:20

a lot of what is built , whether it

4:22

be roads or hospitals or schools

4:25

or apartment buildings , I think all of that

4:27

is taken for granted by the general

4:29

public , and

4:31

so I think that we , as the builders

4:34

of British Columbia and Canada , and

4:36

anyone involved in the construction industry

4:38

, has a greater role to play

4:40

in amplifying what

4:42

it is we actually do to

4:46

play , in amplifying what it is we actually do , how important we actually are , because the built

4:48

environment allows us to enjoy absolutely

4:50

everything around us , and

4:52

whether that's for living , for recreation

4:54

, for transportation , we

4:58

are an essential part

5:00

of everyone's day-to-day

5:02

life , and I think a lot of that is taken

5:04

for granted , if not diminished , by

5:07

the dwellers , as you call them

5:09

. They are utilizing what we build

5:11

, and so that aspect of

5:14

what we do needs to be no

5:17

pun intended but bridged , and we

5:19

need to continue to advocate for the work that's

5:21

being done in order that

5:24

more the

5:26

common folks in our society

5:28

can understand how integral

5:31

, how important it is to build British

5:34

Columbia .

5:35

Great , okay . So , jeff

5:39

, let me ask you this for a second . So do

5:42

you think that there is the

5:44

whole forest from the trees kind of thing , like

5:46

we're so in it , we don't know how we look to

5:48

the outside world ? Would you say that is

5:51

an incongruency that can happen because

5:53

we're so busy .

5:54

I think you

5:56

know , I think a few years ago , like

5:58

25 years ago , that was definitely

6:01

true . It's not as bad today

6:03

as it was 25 years ago , so that's a thing

6:05

of the past . It is a thing of the past , but

6:07

I do believe we've got a long ways to go

6:09

yet . You know , there's a lot

6:11

of very , very amazing

6:14

things about construction other than just

6:16

the financial aspect . Like , you can make

6:18

a lot of very , very good money in construction

6:20

, but you

6:22

know , at the end of the day , we can be

6:24

proud of some amazing projects that

6:27

we are building legacy projects

6:29

that will last , you know , hundreds of

6:31

years . Projects that will

6:33

, you know , help a person who's , you

6:36

know , struggling with cancer . They can go to a facility that

6:38

we've built . So I

6:41

think we can always

6:44

do better , right , and I think we

6:46

need to do a really good job of

6:48

marketing that and telling our

6:50

stories about all

6:52

of the different facets of construction .

6:56

So when you think of the , do

7:00

you think people really get the

7:02

camaraderie

7:05

and the feeling and the focus

7:07

that everybody has on a job site , like when

7:10

the general public drives by , like

7:12

I do this every day , I drive down Nelson

7:14

Street and I see the butterfly building going up

7:16

and you see all that stuff

7:18

going on and all the general public thinks is

7:20

that's slowing down my traffic

7:23

, it's getting in the way

7:25

. And the reality

7:27

is , is that everybody that hive

7:30

that tribe in there of multiple people coming

7:32

in the focus they have in order

7:34

to make that thing so beautiful and so

7:36

great ? Do you think the outside world understands

7:39

that or do they care at all ?

7:44

I think they kind

7:46

of understand it . I

7:49

think that it's the trades are often

7:51

, you know , not given their

7:53

due for

7:55

the amount of skill and the quality

7:58

of the work involved , right ? So like , a landmark

8:00

building like that does not go up without

8:02

really good tradespeople , a landmark building like that does not

8:04

go up without really good tradespeople . And so people you know sometimes

8:07

look down on the trades and

8:09

say , well , I'm a doctor

8:11

, I'm a lawyer , I'm

8:17

this , that and the other . You know , the skilled trades should have more respect because

8:19

they do great work . Like , look at the Vancouver skyline , right . Look at all

8:21

the amazing buildings , things like the

8:23

BC Place roof , you like , um , the BC place roof . You know

8:25

hospitals , the butterfly building

8:27

. You know , it's all , it's

8:30

all , it's all because of our skilled trades people .

8:32

It is so um

8:34

. So , chris , let me ask you this Um

8:38

, what are some of the stereotypes

8:41

that posters like

8:43

this , for instance ? What are the things we

8:45

got to knock down that

8:47

you think are

8:49

like ? Just give me like salient points , things

8:52

that people have said to you over the years . Just

8:55

give me a few of those , maybe some from each of you

8:57

. Just jump in anytime you want .

8:58

You know I think Jeff mentioned

9:01

before that there's kind of a transition

9:03

point in construction . That probably happened 25

9:06

or 30 years ago , when construction

9:08

was deemed to be unsafe , and that's still

9:10

a stereotype that I think still exists

9:12

today , even though I

9:14

think it can be demonstrated that construction

9:17

is incredibly safe nowadays

9:19

, in spite of the risks that

9:22

are involved and the precautions that are taken

9:24

. There's a tremendous amount of investment

9:26

made in the safety of all workers on

9:28

job sites and I think , if you just flash

9:30

forward to today , where construction

9:33

is ahead of other sectors when

9:35

we talk about things like psychological safety

9:37

and you know

9:39

those types of things would be

9:41

unheard of a generation ago in construction

9:44

. So I think safety is one area where

9:46

people still look at construction

9:48

as being unsafe . I think people still

9:50

would consider construction to

9:52

be a dirty job , to be

9:54

a heavy job . Okay , the dirty job

9:56

thing for sure A heavy job , for sure that

9:59

it's only suitable for white

10:01

men that can handle

10:03

the job , which are all stereotypes that

10:06

we're dismantling every day , and it's

10:08

for people that again

10:10

a stereotype , not a truth is

10:12

. That it's for people who can't succeed in

10:15

a different professional career that's taken

10:17

through other academic channels , which

10:20

are all tremendously

10:22

unfair myths that I think we're

10:24

dismantling every day .

10:27

What do you go for ? It go , yeah

10:29

, like I was talking to . You

10:32

know one of the senior people at

10:34

Ellis Dawn today , craig Enns yeah , and he was

10:36

mentioning that . You know he

10:38

was telling a story about how he lets people know

10:40

he's in construction and their automatic

10:43

response is oh , what ditches are you

10:45

digging and this sort of thing . I don't think

10:47

people realize actually

10:49

, the amount of different

10:52

types of jobs that are in construction . You

10:54

know from Revit and technicians

10:56

and BIM technicians and surveying , and

10:58

you know there's a ton of office jobs

11:00

. It's not just , you know , sweeping up a

11:03

job site . So you

11:05

know the diversity of jobs that are available in

11:08

construction is amazing and

11:10

I think we do need to do a

11:12

better job of advertising

11:14

that as well .

11:16

So what do you think of the paradigm of

11:18

a lot of people think it's like the

11:20

old boys club or the guys club or

11:22

a job site's like Sunday

11:26

football . But

11:29

this is the old days , this is the old . I'm

11:31

just saying that this is . These are the things

11:34

that the dwellers think about . We don't

11:36

because we're in it so

11:38

because we don't want to think about that , because we

11:40

see , like I , you know , I'll go to a job site every

11:42

day . I see a complete , diverse workforce

11:44

, I see men and women

11:47

working together and it's different than

11:49

what everybody used to think . But you

11:52

have to heal that wound over time and

11:55

it has to get filled with some hopefully

11:57

no scar tissue . But you

11:59

still have that going on . So

12:02

one thing , that one observation

12:04

I had , you know , doing a little research before this is

12:07

I had this

12:10

girl say to me I said so you know what's the opportunity

12:13

for women in construction ? She goes well , they got

12:15

all the crappy jobs because

12:18

that's what they see . So this

12:20

is what they see . It doesn't mean

12:23

it's real , it's what they see

12:25

. So perception

12:27

is everything to most people . So

12:30

it's just like what you were saying is

12:32

that when you have the people sweeping

12:35

up on the job site . That's not what construction

12:37

jobs are . It is a job in a construction

12:39

, but that's not what that is . When

12:42

we see technology moving

12:44

forward and building and

12:46

building and building , what

12:49

we see is construction getting less

12:51

dirty every day , because it's

12:53

not a dirty job anymore . It's always going to be to

12:55

some degree . So what

12:58

are some of the other things that maybe , chris

13:00

, you were talking about , like the psychological side of things

13:02

? You know people . This work

13:04

is definitely very difficult . It's

13:07

hard . You have to , especially if you look at project

13:09

managers and project coordinators . All

13:11

they do is solve problems all day . The

13:13

minute any contract is signed , it

13:16

changes Like almost day one . The schedule

13:18

changes , money changes Change

13:21

, orders happen . I mean , it's

13:24

a nightmare to a lot of these guys , right ? So

13:27

I just said it right there . A lot of these guys see

13:29

, I got caught with that , so

13:32

do you notice that a lot in terms of language

13:34

as well , there's a lot of we say

13:36

guys a lot .

13:37

No , we're , we're working to to change

13:39

that Like you know , we , we uh , I

13:42

have uh on the modern Niagara team team

13:44

have lots of women in leadership positions

13:46

, project managers , four persons

13:48

, safety managers

13:52

working in the shop , across all the positions

13:54

in the company . And the thing about it being

13:56

dirty is people probably don't

13:58

realize about half of our pipe is built in

14:00

a fab shop in extremely clean

14:03

environment and shipped to site from there , right . So

14:05

things have changed a lot through technology

14:07

like um . You know what jeff mentioned around

14:09

bim and vdc and that sort of stuff . So

14:11

it's it's a very different industry from what it

14:13

was even 10 years ago yeah .

14:17

So when you're saying that a lot of stuff is already you know I got

14:19

prefabrication is that going to change a lot of things ?

14:22

it's we do as of it

14:24

as we can and we always look to do more . Because

14:26

you're building it in a controlled environment climate-controlled

14:29

, higher quality , better

14:32

productivity , Because our workers are in a clean

14:35

, warm , heated fab shop versus

14:37

being on site where it's pissing rain

14:39

at times , right , yeah .

14:42

It's a lot more safe as well . Safety

14:44

is a critical aspect of prefabrication , right , yeah , yeah , it's a lot more safe as well . Safety is a critical aspect

14:46

of prefabrication , right , you're building at , you know , lower

14:48

heights rather than building up in the air and

14:51

in a controlled environment . I don't know if Paul mentioned

14:53

that , but safety is a big part of it . You know , you

14:55

eliminate a lot of safety risks with

14:57

prefabrication and construction .

15:00

Can you maybe speak a little bit to the um

15:02

? Would you say

15:04

that the world of construction

15:07

and the people that show up on a job site is

15:09

kind of like a tribe . It's a

15:11

tribe that operates within

15:13

a city , like when you see a job happening

15:15

. This is a whole other thing

15:17

going on that no one understands . It's like

15:19

if you came into the Amazon and

15:22

you come through a tree clearing and you see a bunch

15:24

of people and you don't know what the hell they do . Is

15:26

it kind of like that to the outside world ?

15:30

Go ahead , Chris .

15:31

Well , I was just going to say I think

15:34

we can overcomplicate

15:37

it . I think that this is one of the fundamental

15:39

things about construction

15:41

that once you're in it , you

15:43

understand how it works . Right

15:46

. It takes time . It's like walking into a

15:48

law office or walking into a food

15:51

service industry for the first time . You

15:53

might not have any idea how it works , but

15:55

the skilled professionals that are in construction

15:58

, they can figure out those contracts

16:00

, they can figure out those schedules , they

16:02

can figure out the flow of work that

16:04

needs to occur in order to get some magnificent

16:07

structures built , some amazing infrastructure

16:09

built . That's the nature of what we do and

16:11

that's you know . I think that that is part

16:13

of the , this

16:15

aura of construction . That is simple

16:18

, that it's for the folks that

16:20

are not capable of doing things

16:22

that go into this . In fact , that's

16:24

part of what we need to continue to hammer

16:27

on . It's no pun intended , but pun intended

16:29

that we need to continue to break

16:31

down those myths that the people involved

16:34

in building these projects are

16:36

fully capable , they understand what's going on

16:38

, they're highly sophisticated , highly

16:40

evolving , highly adaptive and

16:44

they're to be admired for this

16:46

type of work that they're able to do . They

16:49

show up on job sites and just fall in order

16:51

. They know what's going on because they

16:53

are mentored , they are told , they are instructed

16:56

, they're versed in what happens

16:58

and there's a rhythm and routine

17:00

to everything that goes on . And that's

17:03

a tremendous accomplishment and a

17:05

tremendous sense of pride that we should be

17:07

showcasing our industry .

17:10

I think we've seen over the years of you

17:14

know since I'll say the C word , the COVID

17:17

word . Since then we've seen sort

17:19

of the rising up of the managerial class

17:21

, a lot of power struggles going on

17:23

within companies and it seems as though construction that was

17:25

not able to happen . Rising up of the managerial class , a lot of power struggles going on within

17:28

companies and

17:30

it seems as though construction that was not able to happen . Construction has still

17:32

stayed very , very stern and solid in terms of its hierarchy

17:35

of orders and what has to be done because

17:37

of safety and because of procedure

17:39

. It's very similar to how

17:42

it's akin to

17:44

, but not quite as the same . As like a military

17:46

kind of thing , it has to be a

17:48

certain way , otherwise missions

17:51

don't get accomplished . So

17:53

what would you say to

17:55

people who say things

17:57

like the blue collar worker

17:59

? Is that a term that is just totally

18:02

done ? Now ? It

18:04

should be . It should be Because

18:07

that doesn't just cover construction , that

18:09

covers industrial as well

18:11

. Right , that whole blue collar name

18:14

badge on the shirt we've all seen it and

18:16

the blue typeface . So that whole

18:18

blue collar thing ? The dwellers let's talk

18:20

about the dwellers again for a

18:22

second . Do the dwellers consider

18:26

everyone here a blue collar . Is that what they

18:28

think ?

18:31

Well , yeah , going back to the beginning

18:33

of the conversation , I would say that most dwellers

18:35

who aren't putting their heads up to take

18:37

a look around to admire the work

18:39

that's being done in the built environment around them

18:41

probably have that stereotype

18:44

, and I think I agree that

18:46

blue collar is

18:48

a dismissive , almost

18:51

derogatory term to be

18:53

used when you're talking about the

18:55

high opportunity occupations that exist

18:57

in construction .

18:59

Well , it just isn't true , right ? You

19:02

know , the reality is , construction

19:05

is pretty sophisticated , requires

19:07

extremely smart people doing

19:10

a lot of highly technical . You know jobs

19:13

and projects and even like different positions

19:15

. So , yeah

19:18

, it's a stereotype , but it's not really

19:20

reality anymore .

19:22

Yeah , I agree .

19:24

I think too it doesn't . It

19:26

dismisses the opportunity in construction

19:28

, because a lot of us at the leadership

19:31

level in the industry started off as a

19:33

blue-collar worker right . I

19:36

started off as a tradesperson when I was 20

19:38

years old and now I run a business

19:40

unit right , and the opportunity is

19:43

there and it's you know , it's one of the

19:45

best industries in the world for that .

19:47

You know , the reason I bring that up is because

19:49

you know I've now been

19:51

in construction for 12 years , okay

19:54

, and I'm in a technologist in construction

19:56

, my whole company is

19:58

in construction and

20:01

we go to job sites to train people

20:03

how to use technology . So

20:05

what I would say , and

20:07

the reason I bring up the blue collar thing , is because

20:09

I think these stereotypes just like this

20:11

ad does here , which is great stereotypes

20:17

just like this ad does here , which is great because what we have to do is , when

20:19

I have seen examples of , when I'm talking to

20:21

educators , of people

20:23

who go into high schools and do

20:25

trades presentations , and the

20:27

emails that they get back from some of

20:29

the parents saying , why are you saying

20:31

my kids shouldn't go to university that

20:35

we have to change . And I think obliterating

20:38

this whole blue-collar image is something we need

20:40

to do , because that

20:42

will open up Pandora's

20:45

box for everyone to see that technology

20:47

and construction is the last

20:49

bastion of opportunity

20:51

. Think about it . What's left

20:54

? Everything

20:57

else ? Cameras are as good as they can get Videos , as good as they can

20:59

get your iPhone . What was your last update

21:02

on your iPhone ? What did they say it could do ? Oh , maybe

21:04

you didn't . Your

21:06

buddy who had an Android was able to

21:08

not see a blue bubble . I mean , a

21:11

lot of this stuff is barely scratching

21:13

the surface of progression . But

21:16

now you think of the innovation

21:19

in construction . We are going from having

21:21

people being dirty , spraying

21:24

shotcrete on a wall to

21:26

them sitting in a clean environment with

21:28

joysticks and they get to spray

21:31

it from a screen or from

21:33

VR . We're seeing an amazing

21:35

opportunity of where things are now . So

21:37

what I say is to all of

21:39

you who have friends , who

21:42

have their kids take

21:45

a look , get them to take a look at construction

21:47

, and when you're having your martinis , I'll

21:50

tell you what universities aren't looking so good these

21:52

days . I don't know about you guys . Have

21:55

you seen the news ? I don't know about you guys . Have you seen the news ? So

21:58

I don't know . And the water

22:00

cooler at some of these corporations

22:02

is not so exciting either . So what

22:05

do you guys say to that ?

22:08

Well , you know , I totally agree

22:10

and I think , going back to what

22:13

we were talking about with regards to the brand

22:15

of construction , I think when

22:18

we're talking to kids in high schools , or we're

22:20

talking to kids coming out of university without

22:22

a clue of what they want to do , I think

22:24

when we are able to talk to them about the

22:26

opportunities for technology

22:29

, I think when we're talking to

22:31

women who may not have been

22:33

considering construction , to talk to

22:35

them about how the culture is changing , when

22:38

I think we're talking to people

22:41

who just want to have a good paying

22:43

job , that is a means to

22:45

an end , so that they can enjoy a lifestyle

22:48

in British Columbia that is going

22:50

to get them outdoors on weekends

22:52

and evenings . I think that every

22:56

question that comes to construction , we

22:58

need to be in a position to say yes , you can

23:00

, like if you're

23:02

a woman , if you're a techie , if

23:04

you're an outdoors person

23:07

, if you are a person

23:09

who's interested in the trades or management

23:11

, yes , you can in construction

23:13

. That is the simple . It's

23:15

going to take a while , but the

23:18

way we need to shift our brand is

23:21

to be able to say yes , you can to every

23:23

person that comes to us . If you're a

23:25

new Canadian that is coming

23:27

with credentials that are only recognized

23:29

in a foreign country and they

23:32

ask can I come to Canada and work in construction

23:34

in a foreign country ? And they ask can I come to Canada and work in construction

23:36

? We need to get to a point where we say , yes , you can . And

23:38

I believe that about anyone , any

23:40

parent , any teacher who's mentoring

23:43

a kid or giving

23:45

them career advice if they say , can

23:47

I do that in construction , yes

23:49

, you can . And to me , if

23:51

we can solve that crack , that

23:53

nut , that is going to

23:56

open up so many doors for

23:58

people to just feel welcome when

24:00

they want to pursue an opportunity in

24:02

construction . Because

24:12

, let's face it , we're competing against so many other sectors that have labor shortages

24:14

, so many other countries that have labor shortages in construction , so we need

24:16

to get better at attracting them and saying yes to people who want us . What did

24:18

you say ?

24:19

Jeff , I think Nice yeah , I don't know how

24:21

I follow that up , but you know , I think

24:23

you know a lot of this

24:25

is cultural , right . It starts at

24:27

a grassroots level . We really need to be doing

24:29

a lot of work with the kids

24:31

in schools and you know a

24:33

lot of people say , well , we've got to start in high school . I

24:36

believe we've actually got to start sooner than that . We've

24:38

got to start , you know , when kids are

24:40

in . You know grade 2 , 3 , and 4

24:42

and exposing them to job sites

24:44

. You know , maybe not running them on a

24:46

job site , but

24:49

having . You know like we've got a situation at a project we're doing on the island

24:51

where we bring the kids to the job site

24:53

and they run through different little

24:55

sections of all the different trades and they can try

24:58

things out . And we

25:00

need to do a better job with parents as well . You know

25:02

advocating for the construction

25:04

industry and you

25:06

know a story somebody told me today construction

25:10

affects every facet of our life . People

25:12

don't actually realize , when Elon

25:14

Musk goes to Mars , what construction

25:17

is involved in that .

25:18

You can't go to .

25:18

Mars without who's building Mars ?

25:20

Who's building it right when you go to Mars , construction

25:22

has to be involved . That's not my

25:25

Like . I'm stealing that story , but it's

25:28

a very relevant story and

25:30

technology is also a big part

25:32

of that as well .

25:34

That's good . Can I

25:36

get a show of hands for a second ? I

25:41

want to do a visual poll

25:43

here . Where's Craig ? Where's Craig ? Larkin's the

25:45

whistler , where

25:51

is he ? Okay

25:53

, can I just see a show of hands for a second here ? When we've

25:56

seen a lot of things going on in the world

25:58

now we see how culture is affecting

26:00

everything , can

26:03

I just see a show of hands ? Who thinks that we've lost our

26:05

way in terms of being resilient , not

26:08

in this room , but in general with

26:10

most people in the world ? Are we resilient

26:12

in the Western world ? Can I see a show of

26:14

hands of a yes , we are resilient

26:17

. Okay

26:20

, how about ? No , we're not that

26:22

resilient . And

26:25

this is everyone else . This is not you people

26:28

here . This is the rest of the world

26:30

that you guys build everything for . Would

26:33

you say ? They're all a little soft out

26:35

there . Is that a yes , okay , I

26:37

think the theme is yes . So

26:40

what I would say here is that everyone

26:43

here needs to communicate

26:47

in their communities that construction

26:49

is an example of resilience . You

26:53

cannot get through a build , you

26:55

cannot get through the problem-solving , you

26:57

cannot do construction unless

27:00

you are tough in the mind , and

27:04

being tough in the mind comes in many

27:06

different facets . So , paul , maybe

27:08

can you just talk a bit about

27:10

the toughness that people

27:12

need to be mentally , and it doesn't matter male

27:14

, female , woman , man , whatever you want

27:17

to call it , whatever you want to call people

27:19

, it's not label it but at the

27:21

same time , do you have an example of

27:23

how you have to be tough in the mind

27:25

to get through in construction ?

27:28

Yeah , I think construction's very

27:30

challenging , you know , mentally

27:33

at times , right , there's always a lot of moving parts

27:35

, there's always deadlines , there's

27:37

always budget challenges and there's often

27:39

constructability challenges , and

27:42

you work with a group of large stakeholders

27:46

so there's the people challenges too , right . So

27:48

you're never short on challenges . And I would say any

27:51

of my team over there , like Gavin's , our

27:53

regional superintendent , he goes

27:55

to multiple job sites a day and has

27:58

to manage several hundred tradespeople , right

28:00

, and so there's challenges to that . That's not easy , not an

28:02

easy job , no , you know . But he's

28:04

resilient and you

28:07

know it's part of the challenge of construction

28:09

. You know it's not easy

28:11

but rewarding , and you do have to

28:13

be resilient , for sure .

28:14

Yeah , it's kind of like mountain climbing right , you're

28:17

trying to find the next peak , but you don't

28:19

know what the weather's going to be like on the north face . Yeah

28:22

, you know , jeff , what

28:24

do you got for us on that ?

28:30

Well , look , the reality is in construction

28:32

, there's issues that come up minute by minute , every single

28:34

day . We've got to be solution oriented . Um

28:37

, most people in construction are that way

28:39

. And when you talk about resilience , um

28:41

, I mean you just look at what happened during COVID

28:43

everything shut down , it did but

28:46

not construction . We've you know , we

28:48

had , you know , advocates at the BCCA

28:50

, at the VRCA , advocating the government finding

28:53

solutions , and we all went to work at

28:55

the end of the day and we built critical buildings and

28:58

that just shows how resilient the construction

29:01

industry is .

29:02

Chris , yeah , no , I think that's a

29:04

perfect example that Jeff gives about

29:06

our response during COVID . But

29:09

I would say the

29:12

constant resiliency that exists

29:14

in construction , the

29:18

constant resiliency that exists in construction , I think as we forge that next chapter

29:20

of what our brand is going to be , it's going to force everyone

29:22

on sites to continue to toughen

29:25

up even more , and that's challenging

29:27

yourself or your own perceptions

29:30

If people belittles

29:32

themselves and calls it a blue collar job

29:34

or it's the only

29:36

job that they could do because they couldn't get into

29:38

university . I think we , as

29:40

champions of construction , need

29:43

to also be strong about

29:45

construction's place in the world and

29:48

the role of construction's workforce in

29:50

building the economy . So I

29:52

think , as we champion ourselves on job

29:54

sites , protect those around us on

29:56

job sites , we also have to look out for the

29:58

industry in which gives us these

30:00

opportunities and just be aware

30:03

that that resilience

30:05

starts with us and every person on a job

30:07

site has worth and they need to

30:10

be able to stand up for that worth on a

30:12

project and in society , whether

30:14

they're on job site or at home , trying

30:16

to justify what they do to families

30:18

and friends and communities , because we need

30:20

to be our best ambassadors .

30:21

Yeah , I like that . That's great . So

30:24

, jeff , let me ask you this when you were saying

30:26

that we need to convince the parents

30:28

, do you think at the school

30:30

nights , rather than inviting all the kids , why don't

30:32

we invite all the parents and tell them how much

30:34

money their kids could make and how much opportunity

30:37

they could have ?

30:38

Why don't ?

30:38

we do that ? Why don't we have cocktail hour with the parents

30:40

and say , look , look at what

30:43

Jessica can do ? Did you think she

30:45

could do this ? No , you didn't . Well

30:47

, she can , you know .

30:50

Here's something I would say is take

30:52

the parents on a site

30:54

tour of Royal Columbian

30:56

Hospital or New St Paul's Hospital

30:59

and you'll find the

31:01

technicality of the installation is

31:04

impressive , it's not dirty

31:06

and you know you

31:08

can see it all come together and then the skill really shows

31:11

through , right . And most people just don't see

31:13

that , because when you go to a hospital you don't see a mechanical

31:15

room , you don't see an electrical room , you just

31:17

see a patient room and

31:20

there's a lot there , right .

31:22

So this is our last point

31:24

, because I know everyone wants to have a good time . Blah

31:27

, blah , blah , we get it . Whistler's amazing

31:29

, it's an amazing room . So

31:32

the last question is often

31:35

when I say , how do we communicate

31:38

the brand of construction , how

31:43

do we communicate the opportunity ? What I hear a lot is well

31:45

, we can say , somebody can make over $100,000 a

31:47

year , but you're going to hear from David Allison tomorrow

31:50

that what connects with people

31:52

is aligning with people's values

31:54

. And let's

31:56

just go around the table here . What

32:03

are some other things that can add to the meaning vacuum that most people have in their world these

32:05

days other than I can just make some

32:07

money . What are those things ? And

32:10

it could be like some

32:12

more altruism there . Maybe it could be building

32:15

something for others , or status

32:18

or contribution . Maybe , jeff

32:21

, do you have some ideas there ?

32:22

I'll just start . You

32:25

know I've talked to you guys about this a little

32:27

bit , but for me , you know , it's

32:29

more than just money . You know a little story

32:32

and I've told this to you guys Years

32:35

ago . You know , when I was a little story and I've told this to you guys Years ago , you know , when I was a little kid , my

32:37

dad drove me by Expo 86

32:39

, and he kind of laughed at all the workers building

32:41

Expo 86 , and he says , yeah , that's going to be you

32:43

one day , working in the rain . Fast

32:47

forward 20 years and I was managing

32:49

a hospital out in Clearwater

32:51

and I took my parents for a tour and

32:54

my dad looked at me and he says I can't believe

32:57

you're . You know , you're involved in building

32:59

a hospital . This is amazing and

33:01

I think for me that's one

33:04

of the key things is getting to be involved

33:06

in amazing projects that

33:08

are going to last a lifetime , and whether

33:10

that's , you know , having people

33:12

being treated in health care or

33:15

finding , you know , having a place where people can live , you know

33:17

, having people being treated in health care or finding having a place where people can live , you know

33:19

, and raise their families , we're

33:21

integrally a part of that , like

33:23

we were doing that and I think

33:26

that's an amazing story to tell Chris

33:28

.

33:29

No , I just absolutely love

33:31

that story and I think , from

33:34

the workforce development side of things , when

33:36

we're trying to figure

33:38

out what people want to see in our

33:40

industry , I think nowadays it's

33:42

more about what they want

33:44

to see and I think we need

33:46

to meet them where they are , and

33:49

I think construction offers that . And you

33:51

said you know , if it's not about the money , it might initially

33:53

be about the money and getting the parents' attention

33:56

, but it might not have anything to do with money

33:58

for the kids . It might have more to do with lifestyle

34:00

, like we've captured

34:03

with Builder's Life . It might have to do

34:05

with building a legacy or giving something back

34:07

to community by being involved in projects

34:09

that are building hospitals or schools in

34:12

communities . So I think , more and more

34:14

as we become a

34:16

bit more individualistic as a society

34:18

, we've got to know that anyone at any

34:20

time , we've got to meet them where they are with

34:22

the message about what construction has

34:24

for them , and we can deliver on that . So

34:29

to me it can be everything to everyone

34:31

if we give them the right message at the right time

34:33

when they're ready to hear it . Okay , paul , what

34:36

?

34:36

do you got ?

34:37

I think just to sort of join

34:39

on Jeff's story there , and what Chris is saying is

34:41

that you know , we don't tell

34:43

our story very well as an industry and

34:46

we don't tell about

34:48

the challenges , the opportunity and the satisfaction

34:51

you can get from a career in construction . And

34:54

you know , to me I've been doing it a long time now

34:56

, I'm getting old , but it's still fun

34:58

.

34:58

Come on , you're young , you know there's a lot

35:01

of .

35:02

There's a lot of it's just a life .

35:03

You look young with that hair .

35:06

It's just lifelong learning , right , you're always learning

35:08

. Every job's different . There's new technology

35:11

, you're working with different people and you know what . It's

35:13

a great way to spend

35:15

your working life . I just love it , and I think

35:17

we need to tell that story better

35:19

to the general public .

35:22

And just on that , I think traditionally we , you

35:24

know , in construction we're

35:27

not very good at doing that . Like most

35:29

of us are humble , right ? We've been told

35:31

for so many years that you know

35:33

it's kind of a low-end job and

35:35

so we just sort of take that . But I think all

35:37

of us and everybody out there in

35:40

the industry needs to advocate

35:42

and really broadcast

35:45

our message that it's a great place to

35:47

be and a great place to work .

35:50

That's fantastic , you guys . Well , is

35:53

everyone going to have a good evening tonight and a great

35:55

number of days here at CLF ?

35:58

Absolutely yeah .

35:59

All right . So if we do this again next year , we'll

36:01

make sure everyone can hear us . This is

36:03

like a you could call it a live

36:05

pilot , if you will . Tough

36:08

to do . We've got to get everything going . I've got

36:10

to get the names right . Jeez

36:12

, I will do this better next

36:14

time , I promise , but this has been fantastic

36:16

. What

36:19

do you guys think of the panels here ? Give it up for these guys . Give

36:22

it up for Paul , chris and Jeff . All right , I'm James

36:25

and maybe listen to

36:27

the site visit . We got lots of this juicy

36:29

content , so we'll see you

36:31

guys around . And

36:33

thank you very much , janine , thank you for setting this up

36:35

. Amelia , thank you for doing this . Craig

36:38

is here somewhere . Thank you all . Aaron

36:41

, I see you all right guys , thank

36:43

you very much . Have a great day . Well

36:54

, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit

36:56

. Thank you for listening . Be sure to

36:58

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