0:05

All

0:05

right.

0:16

Give it up for yourselves really quickly.

0:18

Come on, give yourself some love. Everybody

0:21

deserves a little self-love.

0:24

It is really an honor to be able to host

0:26

this podcast conversation

0:29

here with you all in

0:31

Austin, Texas, for

0:34

South by Southwest. Welcome to

0:36

what we call the Sound Bath. Now

0:38

live from South

0:41

by Southwest. The Band

0:43

Book Library and this

0:45

special corner of the chaos is

0:47

brought to you by Lush in

0:49

collaboration with the Zen Education Project

0:52

and the African-American Policy Forum,

0:55

which do they both do incredible work. So

0:57

give it up for the Zen Education Project, African-American

1:01

Policy Forum. My

1:04

name is Aja Monet. I'm a Surrealist Blues poet,

1:07

organizer and performing artist.

1:10

And so I'm really, really excited

1:12

because I get the privilege

1:14

of having conversations with very incredible

1:16

people.

1:17

And today I'm here with Bavo

1:20

Blake

1:21

and Aaron Green to discuss teaching

1:24

truth in the era of book bands.

1:27

Bavo Blake is an incredible

1:30

educator,

1:32

a servant leader, an award winning

1:35

musician who's

1:36

deliberately walking through the intersection

1:38

of hip hop,

1:39

education and spirituality. His

1:42

research looks at how hip hop and generation

1:44

leverages its resources for

1:47

today. He's joined

1:49

the Austin Independent School District

1:51

as a cultural proficiency and inclusiveness

1:53

specialist and is now the lead

1:55

partner at Transforming Education

1:57

Incorporated. participatory

2:00

action research with Dr. Alina

2:03

Adonyi-Pruitt about

2:05

anti-racist solidarity, English

2:08

teacher agency, literacy of racism,

2:11

and curricular choices within linguistically

2:13

and culturally diverse classroom

2:15

has been presented at multiple national

2:18

conferences. He's also received

2:20

several awards for his scholarly work.

2:22

And as a songwriter, he collaborated

2:24

with Grammy winners Adrienne Cassata, John

2:27

Dayas, and Brannon Temple, as

2:29

well as many, many others. So please, please

2:31

join me in giving a lot of love to

2:35

Raul Blake. He's also

2:37

an endearing father and husband and

2:39

came straight from a game of his sons

2:42

to be here

2:43

with us. So please give some

2:45

love. Say what up to the people, Raul.

2:47

Go ahead. Good afternoon.

2:50

Good afternoon. Good afternoon. How's

2:53

everybody doing? Glad

2:56

to be with you. And I promise to tell

2:58

you the truth to the best of my ability, because

3:01

that's what this is all about. It's an honor to be

3:03

here. Thank you, Raul. Erin,

3:07

give it up loud. Let's go into Erin

3:09

Green, justice-oriented

3:12

educator, student, writer,

3:14

and researcher,

3:15

doctoral student in curriculum and instruction

3:18

at the University of Texas.

3:20

She has taught both elementary and middle school

3:22

specialized in integrated social

3:24

studies and language arts curriculum

3:27

centered around social justice and the voices

3:29

of the marginalized. Erin has

3:32

also presented her approaches to social studies

3:35

and language arts education at the National Conference

3:37

for the Social Studies in both

3:39

Washington, DC and San Francisco,

3:41

as well as at the National Conference for Teachers

3:44

of English in Houston. Please,

3:46

please, please join me in giving it up for

3:48

Erin Green. Hooray.

3:51

It's really important. Educators

3:54

are really, really the cornerstones of

3:57

our society. So I've really.

3:59

I really am so very excited that we have both

4:02

people that have devoted their lives to

4:04

the commitment of educating our young people. And

4:06

literally

4:06

we all still need educating. So to remember

4:08

that every day we live, we are still

4:11

the students of life. All

4:13

right.

4:14

I know that I just introduced both of you with

4:16

those lovely introductions, but I always find

4:18

it more enlightening for you to please

4:21

share with us the ways that you see yourselves

4:23

that you feel maybe people don't often see you

4:26

and doesn't get described in your bio and

4:28

your description,

4:30

how you identify and how you hope to

4:32

move and be seen in the world

4:34

that sometimes a bio just doesn't fully explore

4:37

or demonstrate. I'll

4:39

take it. I identify as a

4:42

scholar MC. I MC with

4:44

the mind of a scholar. I'm a scholar with the mind of an MC.

4:47

I identify as a learner

4:49

who's always working on

4:51

my learning agenda. Like what am I supposed

4:54

to be learning? I have a deep belief that,

4:56

you know, education is way more important than school.

4:59

I feel like at school you get what you

5:01

have to learn and in education

5:04

you get what you need to learn. And

5:06

most education occurs outside

5:08

of school

5:09

and most schooling is not

5:11

intentional education. So I

5:14

believe in learning from and with and

5:17

kind of deconstructing that teacher

5:20

role. I like to find

5:22

the background knowledge that a learner has and

5:24

leverage that for more learning. And

5:26

I like to also leverage the agenda of

5:29

the people learning more so than

5:31

giving them a thing that I have for them

5:33

that I've determined that they need before

5:35

I meet them in the first place. So that's

5:38

a few things that I can

5:39

share. Thank you. Erin.

5:41

Hello, everyone. I'm excited

5:43

to be here. I identify

5:46

fully as an educator, whether it's

5:48

with six year olds or ten

5:50

year olds or now with pre-service teachers. I

5:53

think that being in the role of working with

5:55

people and learning alongside people is very

5:57

central to my identity. I

5:59

also have the privilege to be here. privilege of a white woman as

6:01

being someone who's typically seen as an individual

6:04

as well. I haven't faced

6:06

or fought back against those structural barriers

6:08

and spaces in which I have to really claim that.

6:11

But I will say that I use that positionality

6:13

as a white woman to do some really disruptive

6:16

work. I can enter into a space as

6:18

an elementary educator and everyone's like,

6:20

great, she looks the part, come

6:22

on in, read some storybooks. And

6:24

then I get in there and I really disrupt

6:27

what's going on and bring in anti-racism

6:30

and justice. And I'm able to do that in ways

6:32

that a lot of other folks aren't able to do that.

6:34

And so that's

6:35

my work and that's how I identify. And I think

6:38

that's the portion that people don't always see. I'm

6:40

viewed as a safe person who's going to naturally

6:42

agree with the status quo, and I

6:44

can use that for disruption.

6:47

Wow. Yeah, that's really insightful to at

6:49

least position oneself and be aware of that

6:52

happening. I think here in the

6:54

United States of America, as in

6:57

many other so-called great nations

7:00

around the world, long before social

7:02

media was responsible or

7:04

made to be the blame, there was

7:07

a history of distorted information and

7:09

blatant misinformation. We have a

7:11

history within this country of distortion

7:14

that has really misled where we are today

7:17

and has

7:17

made it so that many people do not really

7:19

know,

7:20

one, about themselves

7:23

and about their own relationship to their

7:25

communities, but about this country and

7:28

what role many other people play

7:30

in the realities that they get to be

7:32

a part of. And so

7:35

the great scholar W.B. Du Bois said

7:37

that one cannot study reconstruction without

7:39

first, frankly, facing the facts of universal

7:42

lying. And I think what we're

7:44

talking about today

7:46

is recognizing that the

7:48

project of the United States of America has

7:50

been invested in the efforts

7:54

of lying, in

7:56

the efforts of misleading with information.

8:00

as we're in this conversation and the issue

8:02

at hand is teaching truth in the era

8:05

of book bands,

8:06

I wanted to ask you both what do

8:08

you feel you're

8:10

witnessing as educators in this

8:13

moment that

8:13

is not just terrifying you,

8:16

right, but really laying to

8:20

claim what's at stake

8:23

in our current, not just political moment,

8:25

but within our social relationships with people.

8:27

What's at stake where we

8:29

are now finding a country that is invested

8:32

not just in lying, but maintaining the

8:34

myth that it's not a liar,

8:36

right, maintaining the myth that it's devoted

8:38

to justice and freedom and equality.

8:41

What are the things that you find

8:42

that are at stake right

8:44

now for you in the

8:46

state of Texas, but also at

8:49

large?

8:51

I'm glad you referenced Du Bois and

8:53

Reconstruction

8:55

because it seems that every time there's a very

8:57

visible swing of, you

8:59

know, socially a pendulum

9:01

towards observable black

9:03

progress,

9:05

that pendulum always swings back really hard.

9:08

So after Reconstruction there was a swing

9:10

back

9:11

that really changed all of the movements

9:14

in education, all the movements in

9:16

government, and all the changes in

9:18

leadership, all the advancements

9:21

of emancipation as it's called, there

9:24

was a really hard swing back.

9:26

And we had a president who

9:29

was visibly black and

9:31

happy and unbothered, and then there

9:33

was a swing back.

9:35

And then we had the most black-affirming

9:38

month in the history of the United States. It

9:40

was June of 2020 where the

9:43

streets were painted and the roofs were painted

9:45

and

9:46

corporations made pledges and whatnot, so you can

9:48

really see

9:49

black love as like a big mainstream

9:51

trend and then the

9:54

pendulum swings back and that's where

9:56

we are.

9:57

So for the word of terrorizing to connect

9:59

to that,

10:00

I think this is a pattern of terror that

10:02

is protecting what I've learned is that

10:06

for

10:06

national identity to be

10:08

upheld there has to be an erasure

10:11

of institutional memory and so

10:13

I think

10:14

that

10:16

there is a

10:17

connection between

10:19

fighting for preservation of a national identity and

10:22

Making sure that people don't really know a

10:25

real well-rounded accurate Multi-perspective

10:28

history if you will it holds

10:30

it it holds the system together and

10:33

It's a conflict in my mind because I mean we're

10:35

at South by Southwest talking about this

10:38

and so we're in the midst of all

10:41

things capitalists

10:43

and all things commercial But

10:45

I'm saying it's it's an observable lived

10:47

tension that even us who have our minds

10:50

on Liberation and justice have

10:52

to accept each day

10:54

Struggle with right. Oh absolutely

10:57

because I don't know if there's necessarily an immediate

10:59

acceptance. I think the average

11:01

citizen is struggling with that tension

11:04

between

11:05

values and the things that we want to see

11:07

and the the institutions and the corporations

11:10

and the ways that

11:11

Government has run and

11:14

I think that that struggle is often

11:16

demonized Rather than being as

11:18

a part of the democratic process That

11:21

in order to be a citizen

11:22

one must struggle and continue

11:24

to struggle with these points of right

11:26

attention I think that's a great revision

11:29

on what I was saying for sure because

11:31

it's a more accurate way to put it and I

11:34

think that

11:35

the lies that you referenced

11:37

Even democracy to a

11:40

very real extent

11:42

is kind of a lie, too There's

11:44

a game about that as well.

11:46

So those are some of the considerations. I have

11:48

given you a question I

11:52

think

11:52

What's at stake is for us to continue

11:55

doing things the way we've always done them.

11:57

It's not like schools We're like doing this

11:59

really radical stuff

12:01

and then all of the sudden there's this right wing

12:03

movement to pull all the books. A lot of those

12:06

books weren't in classrooms to begin with. And

12:08

we can sit up here and talk about

12:11

our critiques against capitalism, right? Which

12:14

I have the same. But I work with my pre-service

12:17

teachers who are 20 years

12:19

old and I start to critique capitalism

12:22

and they're like, wait, what's capitalism? Right,

12:25

and that is a product of

12:27

the school system. These are majority

12:30

white women who want to be elementary school teachers.

12:34

And this is how we've always done

12:36

things. And I think we have to go back to the

12:38

history of looking at enslavement

12:41

and the fact that black folks weren't allowed

12:43

to read or write. Like literacy was

12:45

illegal. So this isn't new.

12:48

This is something that has been continuing.

12:50

And that's what that's take,

12:52

right? Is to continue doing things the way we've

12:55

always done them under a new name

12:57

and with a new legislative frame that

12:59

makes that

13:01

the norm, right? But I want to clarify for folks,

13:03

these books that are being banned in this

13:05

progressive or liberal or justice

13:07

oriented curriculum that's being taken away from schools

13:10

in most cases wasn't being used in the

13:12

first place, right? So we have

13:14

to change things. And it's this

13:16

push in 2020, right? George

13:19

Floyd, like there is a push towards being

13:21

more critical. And then in response,

13:23

the right wing comes in. But it's not like we'd

13:25

revolutionize the education system.

13:28

And then all of a sudden now we're going back. Like,

13:31

yeah, no, interesting. Because as

13:34

someone that was once young,

13:36

was once in school,

13:39

I would argue kind of a little bit the counter

13:41

of that. Maybe it's because I grew up in an urban

13:44

environment in a city, but I know

13:46

that there were,

13:47

I grew up with a lot of radical educators. And

13:49

I think that it's important to kind of highlight that because

13:52

even though the institution might

13:54

be corrupt or the actual

13:57

establishment or the things that the

13:59

role.

13:59

that we are supposed to play

14:01

are supposed to be very conservative. There

14:04

are always people disrupting those roles. There

14:06

are always people kind of pushing back.

14:09

And so I

14:11

want to lift up the educators who have always

14:13

historically been pushing back because we have some

14:15

radical, radical educators

14:18

who are doing incredible things in their schools.

14:21

I know that's not the norm,

14:23

but something I did want to ask was, when we

14:25

talk about history, you

14:27

know, for those who do not know, we

14:29

offer a little bit of a,

14:30

go a little further into a brief history

14:32

lesson

14:33

about some of the background information

14:36

on institutionalized misinformation within

14:38

this country,

14:39

starting with the abolition of slavery

14:42

in the Reconstruction era. If you can give

14:44

people maybe a little bit of a context who

14:46

don't have that history and didn't go to good schools,

14:49

or just, it's been a while.

14:51

And what you think it's important for people to

14:53

recognize about the past that's still impacting

14:55

us today, you touched a little bit on it.

14:58

I think one of the things I want to try to instigate

15:00

in that is that there's

15:01

not enough emphasis on, while

15:05

the banning of Black books and authors does

15:07

affect Black history, it also impacts White

15:09

history or White American history,

15:12

that there were White abolitionists, there were people

15:14

that were advocating and pushing for this country

15:16

to actually live up to its ideals. So I

15:18

wanted to ask, what are the things that we know about

15:20

history that is important to bring into this conversation

15:23

now that's not being brought into the conversation?

15:28

I think that

15:30

if you're going into a K-12 school

15:32

environment,

15:33

you're learning a very narrow

15:37

and nationalist and kind

15:39

of

15:39

made-for-TV version of history in general.

15:43

So when I talk to educators as

15:45

well as students and ask them a question

15:47

as simple as, what percentage

15:49

of the world

15:51

do you think

15:52

would be classified as White people? Usually

15:55

the answer is an average of about 50 to 60 percent and not 12

15:57

to 50 percent.

16:01

15%, which is evidence that they're

16:04

receiving a perspective that suggests

16:06

that this is the dominant viewpoint,

16:09

but also the dominant people group in the

16:11

world, which is

16:13

utterly ridiculous. It's more

16:15

like the percentage of black folks in the United States

16:18

would be parallel to the white folks

16:20

in the world. I think that when

16:22

you go into black history, a lot

16:25

of times it centers celebrities

16:28

and more than anything, people who've been

16:31

beat up or killed by white

16:33

people.

16:35

But I think that black history

16:38

obviously begins with human history

16:40

because the first humans, according

16:43

to science, which we value,

16:45

are black people. So there is

16:47

an ancient African history that's never

16:50

typically considered and it spans

16:53

thousands of years, but

16:56

it's not considered because we're already tuned

16:58

to

17:00

watered down version of MLK,

17:02

Rosa Parks, watered down kind

17:05

of fictional version of Rosa Parks,

17:07

and watered down fictional version of Harriet

17:09

Tubman.

17:10

So you always get black

17:12

meeting victim

17:14

as opposed to black meeting

17:16

opposed to white in

17:19

terms of the social construct of race.

17:21

So I think what's often overlooked is

17:24

what's true,

17:25

and I guess the dueling truth

17:27

about race,

17:29

which if you notice the word America cannot

17:32

be spelled without the R in it and

17:34

the A in it and the C in it and the E in

17:36

it. And there's a reason you can't spell America

17:38

without race. And if you pull

17:40

race out of America, what you're left with is MIA. So

17:43

I think the most overlooked thing for

17:46

people being raised to function as

17:48

American people

17:49

is the fact that they don't really know

17:52

what has actually been made in America

17:54

in terms of social reality. And

17:57

this battle is to hold that tradition

17:59

in place.

17:59

keep things narrow and keep institutional

18:02

memories erased or clueless

18:04

in order to hold the social structure we exist

18:07

in together.

18:09

I think to speak more to the history

18:13

of how white supremacy and

18:15

our white supremacist nation has always

18:18

censored history,

18:19

again we have to go back to enslavement

18:22

and the illegality of literacy

18:25

and then also the fact that oftentimes

18:27

the only text that enslaved

18:30

folks were given access to was the Bible

18:32

and even the Bible had passages

18:34

removed right anything that was about rebellion

18:37

or liberation in the present was removed

18:41

and then post-abolition we still

18:43

have places where free black folks cannot

18:46

go to school

18:48

and this continues through reconstruction

18:50

during reconstruction schools were burned to the ground

18:53

something like 600 schools were burned

18:55

down and

18:57

then you look at the civil rights movement right and within

18:59

all of this I think that your point about the agency

19:01

of teachers is so important because

19:04

we have freedom schools arise during

19:06

the civil rights movement right we have black folks who are

19:08

educating their own community they're

19:10

taking it upon themselves

19:13

to do this work because the white supremacist

19:15

system that is the United States and is our school

19:17

system refused to do that right

19:20

and then we have

19:21

brown v board pass and I think the typical

19:23

narrative of brown v board is that everything

19:25

got better afterwards right schools

19:28

were integrated everyone's happy the

19:30

reality is that black schools were shut down

19:34

and black teachers and black administrators

19:36

were dismissed and so we look

19:38

at our school system now we're like we need more black teachers

19:41

well

19:42

we fired all of them legacies

19:45

of educators who were more educated

19:47

than their white counterparts were fired

19:49

right so we're not just censoring

19:52

what books kids have access to but the fact

19:54

that kids might have access to school at all

19:57

in Virginia after brown v board passed

19:59

there was the county that shut down all public

20:01

schools for five years,

20:03

because they would rather not allow anyone

20:05

access to public education than to integrate,

20:08

right? And within those years, then we

20:10

have the black community coming in and having

20:12

school at churches and in

20:14

basements and sometimes on boats.

20:18

And this is all things that I've learned from children's literature

20:20

that is now banned, that I would like to point out, right?

20:22

Like these stories I'm telling are told through children's

20:25

lit that

20:27

we're not allowing in schools anymore. So

20:29

I think there is a long legacy of white supremacy,

20:32

a long legacy of censoring

20:34

education,

20:35

and even the education that white kids get, right? No

20:38

one benefits from this, except for those

20:40

in power who want to maintain power.

20:42

So I think there's a long legacy of

20:44

white supremacy, and there's a long

20:46

legacy of resistance, and particularly by educators

20:49

of color who have come together when this system is

20:51

functioning exactly as it's designed to

20:53

by not serving them, right?

20:55

Can I add one more?

20:57

The Emancipation Proclamation did

21:00

not end slavery

21:04

in Delaware, in

21:06

New Orleans.

21:08

It was only the places that the union did not

21:10

have control of where slavery was

21:12

abolished.

21:14

You got me excited and I wanted to add that one. All

21:17

right. Well, I want to add on to that too. Let's go.

21:20

Because now we have Juneteenth is the celebration

21:22

of... I was just about to

21:24

go there. I was like, wait, no, no, you

21:27

brought it in. Okay, so now we have Juneteenth

21:29

as a federal holiday, right? We cannot be

21:31

in Texas without

21:32

talking about Juneteenth. That's fabulous.

21:34

There's great children's literature coming out about Juneteenth.

21:37

There's also probably some not great children's literature coming

21:39

out about it. And this happens when something

21:42

amazing, something revolutionary becomes

21:44

part of the narrative that we're accepting

21:47

in public, then it gets manipulated

21:49

again, right? So kids in schools now,

21:52

they know that Juneteenth is a holiday. Like

21:55

a five-year-old, a six-year-old can tell you that. And

21:57

then you ask why. And they're like, I don't

21:59

know.

21:59

No, no one told me.

22:02

So we have these narratives and then as soon

22:04

as it feels like a victory, and it is

22:06

a victory, I'm not gonna say it's not a victory, it absolutely is, but

22:09

then the narrative is co-opted and it takes the

22:11

agency of teachers to come

22:13

in and decide to tell the truth because

22:16

the system is not preparing us to do that.

22:19

Yeah, thank you so much for that. I think what's really

22:21

scary about it is that

22:23

the way that

22:24

institutions are people with power, right?

22:27

Those who manipulate and abuse

22:29

their power oppressive systems work

22:31

is that they keep you so busy fighting for the bare

22:33

minimum, that by the time you're

22:35

done fighting for the bare minimum, you're so tired

22:38

that you don't realize there's like a whole other large thing

22:40

to be fighting for, right? While

22:42

people see the ban on black history

22:44

books and stories and culture as again,

22:47

just impacting black people, I think

22:49

this impacts all people and

22:51

poor people primarily. And so

22:53

I wanted to ask, what role do you think

22:56

poverty and the government's

22:59

almost manipulation of the people, what

23:01

role does that play in specifically

23:03

this book ban? For one, I

23:05

think

23:06

that is where you get the narrowest education

23:08

because you have the widest gap between

23:10

the cultural reality of the students and families

23:13

that the schools intend to serve or

23:15

claim to serve

23:16

and the cultural reality of the

23:19

community and the campus

23:21

between the school system

23:22

and the students. And so you have a really

23:24

wide gap in

23:26

priorities and cultural reality there. And

23:29

when you add book bans to me,

23:31

it's a huge barrier to engagement.

23:35

When I use books that relate to

23:38

students and things that they've learned

23:40

from their parents or even just kind of learned

23:42

through osmosis from their parents or felt through

23:44

their parents, the level of engagement goes crazy.

23:47

Like some of my least engaged, I'm going

23:49

to drop out anyway, Mr. Students.

23:52

When I'm teaching a book that's bilingual

23:55

and it's like, I'm thinking about separate is never

23:57

equal, that book.

23:58

One of the most banned books right now. now crazy

24:01

book because way before MLK

24:03

repeat the book and the author separate is

24:05

never equal by Duncan T

24:07

I'm not gonna mispronounce it I watched a video earlier

24:09

because I want to bring up this book and I was like I want to say the name

24:12

right so now I'm gonna say it wrong after that preface

24:15

Tana too so it's gorgeous

24:18

and it's talking about Sylvia Mendez and their family

24:20

and the fact that Sylvia Mendez's dad had

24:23

his own business so he could say hey mom

24:25

watch the business and tend to the business

24:27

of the fact that his daughter's being indiscriminate

24:30

it against because she's a dark-skinned

24:33

Mexican-American

24:34

born in the States but looks the

24:36

part of I should discriminate against you meanwhile

24:39

her white presenting Spanish-speaking

24:41

cousins are

24:44

allowed to go to the white school so she had

24:46

a school where they eat lunch near the cow

24:48

patties the poop with the flies on it

24:50

etc and dad's not having that and

24:52

dad has the agency and the freedom

24:55

to say wife watch the business

24:57

I'm gonna go call my lawyer friend and we're gonna

25:00

take them to task and what ends up happening

25:02

is a big lawsuit that predates

25:05

the civil rights movement but the point that I'm making is

25:08

students are into that and

25:11

it's not because I have to tell them the

25:13

truth but

25:14

it's because I have to bring that book in

25:17

I

25:18

don't speak great Spanish but

25:20

Luis does and so he's from the back

25:22

of the room to the front of the room because I need him

25:24

and then the topic and the subject matter

25:26

and the questioning that I insert with that

25:29

book sets otherwise kind

25:31

of bored school ain't for me students

25:33

on fire and it completely shifts

25:36

the dynamic of engagement around educational

25:38

opportunity in a classroom specifically

25:41

because of the narrative being told and

25:43

that I relate to that that's about me

25:45

and if it's not about me in terms of demographics

25:47

it's about me in terms of like just how I feel

25:50

in society

25:51

so when you take that away the

25:53

most impacted group that's losing the opportunity

25:56

to engage academically and feel smart

25:58

and feel like their background knowledge

25:59

is the fire needed to

26:02

keep the room warm at a school, those

26:05

are students who most likely are

26:07

in low socioeconomic environments.

26:12

I wanna start by referencing

26:15

one book that's been banned and it's a book for kids

26:17

ages like four to eight. That was my next question.

26:20

Let's name some books that have been banned that you all wanna

26:22

bring into the space.

26:23

So this is a lovely picture book,

26:26

very appropriate for a four year old, commonly

26:28

used in kindergarten classrooms.

26:30

It's called All Are Welcome. If

26:34

we are banning a book called All

26:36

Are Welcome, what

26:39

else do you need to know? It sounds pretty radical

26:42

to me. Crazy, right? But

26:45

I do think that at the core

26:48

of welcoming all and caring for all,

26:50

that

26:51

is anti-capitalist. And

26:53

we teach capitalism in school

26:56

from as soon as kids are in pre-K, right?

26:59

What behaviors do we teach? You sit

27:01

down, you listen, you do what you're told.

27:03

And what happens if you do that? You're rewarded.

27:06

As you move up in school, you have a class

27:08

store that you can buy prizes from. You're

27:11

rewarded for being quiet and doing what you're

27:13

told. We are teaching students

27:16

to accept a capitalist system

27:18

in which they stand by and follow the

27:20

rules that are set for them. And we don't

27:22

ask them to ask questions. We don't ask kids

27:25

to think about, is that rule fair?

27:27

Who benefits from that rule? And who's harmed

27:29

by that rule? Those are not things that we encourage

27:32

students to ask. And so by encouraging

27:35

this acceptance of a system,

27:38

we are teaching them to accept capitalism,

27:41

right? And so we know that within a capitalist system,

27:44

by and large, poor folks stay poor, right?

27:47

And rich folks get richer. And so that

27:49

is what we are socializing our students into

27:51

through things that we accept as so

27:53

normal,

27:54

like a classroom store or a behavior

27:57

management system in which students get

27:59

points. privileges, right?

28:04

And there's a sorting that's happening between

28:07

smart and not so smart and not

28:09

smart at all and there's a sorting

28:11

system of winners and losers,

28:14

right, based on what type of success you're experiencing

28:17

and they feel it

28:18

and it sticks and by the time they're

28:20

in middle school where we were teaching, right,

28:22

being those type of teachers that you reference, it's

28:26

really hard to wash that residue off

28:29

by the time you've experienced it for six years

28:31

of being sorted.

28:33

I belong in this type of class, I belong

28:35

in this part of the room, I'm not smart,

28:37

she is, right, and where

28:40

compliance is its own reward and

28:43

there's no official compliance curriculum.

28:45

I love the way you highlighted that because it's

28:48

its own reward

28:49

and that all people are always

28:51

learning skills and habits all the time

28:55

but

28:55

if you keep giving me like my Pavlov

28:57

dog treat

28:59

for doing what you say

29:01

then I'm a good person

29:03

and that holds everything in place so thank you

29:05

for mission

29:05

that too. I

29:09

want to clarify, Babu said we taught together, we absolutely

29:12

did. I

29:13

also want to clarify that I lasted

29:15

as a middle school teacher for one year and

29:18

I was pissed. He

29:21

left before me. I came

29:23

to the school to teach with Babu and then he was like

29:25

I'm on my way out, bye.

29:27

But I will say like I experienced exactly

29:29

what he's saying. I came in with this fire

29:32

that I do this work that I've done with young

29:34

kids that I like I keep being told

29:36

as an elementary school teacher like they're not ready

29:38

for this, don't do this and this is pre-book

29:40

bands, right, like they can't talk about racism. I'm like

29:42

oh that's crazy because they're doing it right now

29:45

and everyone seems to be having a pretty

29:47

educational time in here. So I'm excited

29:50

to come do this work in middle school where I'm

29:52

told like don't do it in elementary, middle

29:54

school can handle it, go do this work in middle school and

29:56

then I come to middle school. Hold

29:58

on, low income. non-white

30:02

middle school. Go ahead. Brilliant children. Oh,

30:04

super brilliant, but to the question. Yes,

30:06

yes. And I come in and they

30:08

have been conditioned into

30:10

this system that he is explaining, right?

30:13

Like

30:13

they know their place in the classroom. You have kids who go

30:16

straight to the back and you have the kids who follow

30:18

the rules and do what they're told and they're in the front. And

30:21

yep, and there's a couple of them in every class

30:23

and everyone else is pretty

30:25

pissed that they have to be here. And honestly, if I

30:27

were a kid of color, a poor kid of color sitting in

30:29

a classroom where they're supposed to learn US history,

30:31

the way

30:32

that the state wants them to learn

30:34

it, I'd also be pissed. I'd be pissed as a white kid

30:36

in that class. We should all be pissed.

30:38

They don't exist in the curriculum and except

30:40

for kind of as a footnote after thought,

30:42

a sidebar. Right. See, we're going now.

30:45

So, and so I tried to do this

30:47

disruptive work, but it is so disheartening

30:49

to see the effects of

30:51

the system on brilliant

30:55

children, right? And

30:57

so I went back to elementary. I

30:59

was like, I want to do this work where I'm like

31:01

seeing it happen in front of me where their eyes are lighting

31:04

up and they're like, school can be this way

31:06

and they

31:07

and they work together. And I think part of that also

31:09

is in elementary. I was working with

31:12

either one or two classes, about 20 kids,

31:14

right? So those relationships are deep and I spend

31:16

all day with them and I know their parents and I can

31:18

do a lot of community work. From the middle

31:20

school, I've got 150 kids.

31:23

I like, I learned all of their names by the third

31:25

class and I was so proud of myself and they

31:27

were like, no teachers ever done that before. And I

31:29

was like, oh, they don't know your names? And

31:33

that continued into the school year

31:35

of like, this teacher does not know my name. But

31:38

unfortunately, it felt like at some point

31:40

it stopped with knowing their names. I don't have the capacity

31:42

to know 150

31:43

kids the way that I could know 20 or 40. And

31:49

these book bands, 19% of them are

31:51

picture books,

31:52

picture books.

31:54

The ones that we used to do that work in elementary,

31:57

which is so necessary to sustain

31:59

that. this work. We have to start soon.

32:02

Starting in eighth grade, seventh grade

32:04

is a lot of

32:07

residue

32:09

on a child in middle school.

32:11

Yep. And so you went to elementary

32:13

and that sounds like you're right off into the sunset.

32:16

Everything was perfect then.

32:19

That's correct. No,

32:22

it wasn't. And then I went and taught elementary for a little

32:24

while longer. And then it feels like

32:27

doing this work in Texas,

32:30

to be a teacher in Texas trying

32:33

to do justice oriented work, you're

32:35

going to come up against resistance everywhere

32:37

you are, regardless of book bands, regardless

32:40

of CRT legislation, you're going to come up against this everywhere.

32:43

And part

32:45

of what the research tells us is that teachers

32:47

who teach for justice can sustain this work

32:49

when they work in collectives, when they work

32:51

together. And there's some really phenomenal groups

32:54

doing this work and working together in places like New

32:56

York City and in the Bay Area and in

32:58

the Pacific Northwest, which are highly unionized

33:01

areas, right? We're not a unionized state

33:03

and we don't have those collectives here.

33:06

And so to do this work in Texas

33:09

can feel like you're doing it alone and that

33:11

is not sustainable. And that is why I'm

33:14

not working in a K-12 classroom

33:16

now. And now I have the privilege of working with pre-service

33:18

teachers and I love that, but I have this

33:20

tension of like, I'm preparing you to do

33:23

this work. And I know you can do this

33:25

work and we can do it together, but I also

33:27

know the reality of the system that I'm sending

33:30

them off into, right? So I think when

33:32

we're thinking about how teachers can do this work

33:34

in the light of book bands or in light of anti-CRT

33:37

legislation, we have to think about what

33:39

supports we're providing teachers and how we're

33:41

continuing to work together

33:43

once they start to face those challenges because

33:46

it

33:48

is not an easy job at all.

33:51

Thank

33:51

you for that. What are the things that you're

33:52

seeing from your young people that is

33:55

really inspiring and making you feel really

33:57

excited around this time? What

33:59

are some of and things that you're seeing

34:01

as educators within the education system,

34:04

but also within young people that is inspiring

34:06

you right now?

34:07

Short answer is

34:09

brilliance. And what I mean by

34:11

that is

34:13

they know way more

34:15

than they're typically given credit for in the

34:17

school system.

34:18

And now with the advent of social media

34:20

technology, because every young person is now a native

34:23

to a thing that,

34:25

I mean, I didn't even have e-mails until I was in college.

34:27

I'm of a certain age.

34:29

But I see sharing of information

34:33

through social media like crazy.

34:36

I see learning outside

34:39

of their school day

34:40

like crazy. And how similar

34:43

to the book that I referenced, you know, is getting

34:46

children kind of fired up and leaning into learning,

34:48

there's

34:48

a lot of things that students do outside

34:51

of school that also get them fired up. So

34:53

I would say just the way that they share information.

34:55

A common example would be TikTok.

34:58

Another example would be just information

35:01

where they get on fire about a certain subject. Even

35:03

within our school, I recall

35:05

students who, because

35:07

we didn't have a lot of, we had

35:09

no actually black and brown tension

35:12

whatsoever

35:13

across those two groups of people.

35:16

And the one time that something popped

35:18

up, students came into my classroom and

35:20

said, how do we fix this? Because we know that

35:22

this is our responsibility because we don't believe

35:24

in that. And they basically showed

35:26

up

35:27

as a

35:29

multiracial coalition simply

35:31

asking for some input

35:33

and knew that we had a venue.

35:35

And they just addressed it on their own. So I'm seeing

35:37

a lot of growth in agency, not

35:40

necessarily in the school during

35:42

the daytime.

35:43

But I will say that the reason that I left

35:45

our school

35:46

was to be able to work at a

35:48

larger and way wider district,

35:51

interestingly enough,

35:52

which at first I was uncomfortable about. The reason I was

35:54

there was to infuse concepts

35:57

of cultural proficiency and anti-racism

35:59

into.

35:59

the social and emotional learning framework in

36:02

a way where I could reach the whole

36:04

district

36:05

as a professional learning specialist.

36:07

And so in that particular role,

36:09

we were able to pull students in and

36:12

politically organize to where the school board

36:14

is willing to meet with the students on a regular

36:16

basis. They didn't understand that we were really

36:18

going to let students take the wheel on our side. So

36:21

by the time that the students are meeting with the executives,

36:23

by the time the students are meeting with the school board and

36:26

everybody can see it because it's public, the

36:28

students are really taking them to task and challenging

36:30

them. And sure, they experienced disappointments

36:33

in what the school board would not do

36:35

despite listening to their recommendations

36:37

and kind of patting them on the head and saying, thanks for

36:40

sharing. That was so brave and just kind of doing

36:42

that thing. But then a year later at

36:44

a school board meeting in public, what have you done

36:46

since we gave you the recommendations last year? And

36:49

the superintendent having to say, oh, we haven't done

36:51

anything. And the student saying, oh, OK.

36:55

Even that alone is really powerful to me because

36:57

it spreads. Students communicate

37:00

and basically just left

37:02

to their own devices. They have all the devices

37:04

they need to make something happen. And that's

37:07

what I see continually is them

37:09

leveraging their own ideas and their own power and really

37:11

waking up to that. And I think

37:13

these last few years since Covid

37:16

has opened that up even more because there's just a little

37:18

bit more pushback and unruliness

37:21

and rebellion typically respectfully,

37:24

but disrespectfully when necessary

37:27

that students are exhibited every day. I'll

37:31

piggyback off the idea of accessibility

37:33

of knowledge

37:34

and how that is contributing

37:37

to how our young folks engage with the

37:39

world. And I don't work with K-12

37:41

students on a regular basis. I

37:44

work with pre-service teachers and I

37:46

work with pre-service teachers of college students,

37:48

typically juniors and seniors

37:50

in the same program that I'm a graduate of.

37:53

And since I have graduated from that university,

37:55

just the shift in how they accept

37:58

new information is why.

37:59

So when I was a student and our

38:02

professor told us something that we didn't

38:04

know about, something about structural racism

38:07

or discrimination towards LGBTQ

38:10

folks,

38:11

our response, and again,

38:13

this is a heavily white female

38:15

teaching force, one of my elementary teachers, it's been that

38:18

way for a long time, specifically

38:20

to reference back to Post-Brown v.

38:22

Board. We haven't seen much change in this. So

38:24

same demographics, right? And my response, my cohort's

38:27

response was,

38:29

I've never heard that before, so you're

38:31

wrong.

38:32

That is wrong because that's not my experience.

38:35

And what I'm seeing now with this same

38:37

demographic, just younger, right?

38:40

The 22-year-olds now, 21-year-olds,

38:42

when they're presented with new information,

38:45

their response is, I didn't know that,

38:47

I'd like to know more. Or

38:50

they come into a class session, like, I think

38:52

I disagree with this idea, but I'm

38:54

willing to engage with it. And that willingness

38:57

to engage is something that I did

38:59

not see prior to this

39:01

generation. Please

39:04

give it up for Aaron.

39:08

Okay.

39:10

And Babu, thank you so much. There's

39:12

something in your book that I wanted to end us on. Let's

39:14

go. That I thought he,

39:17

before starting this, he gave this

39:19

incredible, hold on, let me show it up. Let me show.

39:22

What book is it? Oh, okay. The incredible book called

39:24

Elle's Mirror, a picture book

39:26

that he shared with me before we came to start

39:28

speaking with you all. And

39:30

I opened it up, and the first thing

39:32

that I read, I wanted to leave

39:34

you all with, or

39:36

at least one of the things I wanted to leave you all with, where

39:38

it's, he quotes,

39:40

till the lion writes history, the

39:42

hunter will be the hero. First

39:45

people proverb.

39:47

And I think that that's so important,

39:49

that till the lion writes history, the

39:52

hunter will be the hero. And

39:53

for those of you listening

39:56

and tuning in today and being present with

39:58

us in the middle of this mayhem, We're

40:00

just really grateful that you

40:02

showed up

40:03

and that you were open

40:05

and willing to engage, which is what

40:08

we need and what's necessary moving

40:10

forward. And so I hope that you

40:12

do

40:13

not see this as a one-off event, but

40:15

that you continue to show up and remain

40:17

engaged and know that it is hard to do it alone.

40:20

If you're fighting or resisting something alone,

40:23

it's always harder. It's always going to feel more burdensome.

40:26

But when you recognize that there are people who

40:28

are organizing together, I encourage

40:30

you to find a political home,

40:32

find an organization that you can affiliate

40:35

yourself with that represents the values

40:37

and the ideals that you believe in, because

40:40

that's where you can struggle with ideas. That's

40:42

where you can fall back. That's where you can be held accountable.

40:45

That's where you can ask questions. That's where

40:47

you can go when you feel alone and you feel like no

40:49

one else understands you.

40:51

I know we all have jobs and we think things that

40:53

we have to do that were obligated to do,

40:55

but just recognize that once you can

40:58

find community, you can find

41:00

solutions and that solutions are in

41:02

the community that we build together, that we

41:04

must create and foster and facilitate.

41:07

Get to know some of our speakers, find

41:10

ways to get involved and support what they're doing as educators,

41:13

because it's not easy. There are days I'm sure

41:15

they want to give up. There's days when they want to pull

41:17

their hair out and you just coming up to them and

41:19

saying, thank you for the work you do. Keep

41:21

going. We'll go a long way.

41:24

It goes so much further than you could ever possibly

41:26

imagine. So I want to give it up to our educators

41:28

who are here

41:29

doing this work in Texas. I

41:33

want to shout out to the educators across this country,

41:36

the state, the educators

41:39

in Florida and ground zero

41:41

of this work trying to keep books alive

41:43

and the authors, the writers that are continue

41:45

to write their stories as a poet, as someone

41:48

that continues to try to tell our stories. I'm

41:50

honored to know that people are in our classrooms

41:52

teaching our words, telling students about what

41:55

we're sharing and the stories that need to be told. So

41:57

give it up for yourselves. Last. You

42:00

know, give it up for yourselves for being attentive,

42:02

showing up. Thank you, Lush, for hosting this conversation.

42:05

Thank you so, so much. You're

42:07

listening to The Sound Bath here live

42:09

at South by Southwest. All right, y'all.

42:11

Can we give it up for Aja as well?

42:13

Aja Monet.