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1:06

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition

1:08

of the Spanish Football Podcast. Hello Sydney.

1:11

Morning Phil. How are you my friend?

1:13

I'm all right thank you, not too bad. You're

1:16

back from the mascot Olympics which

1:18

you attended yesterday. It was

1:20

a tremendous, tremendous

1:22

event which received blanket

1:25

coverage on our social media channels.

1:27

If you weren't following us, Sid did a sterling

1:30

job of keeping us up to date with what was going

1:32

on. What was it like to

1:34

witness the victory of

1:36

Amunt the Valencian bat

1:40

in the mascot Olympics? And at this stage,

1:43

I can't quite believe

1:45

I'm going to say this but I'm going

1:47

to. I'm going to big us up Phil because we

1:49

were right in our prediction that

1:51

Amunt the Valencian bat would win because it's

1:54

a bit, you know, it felt a little bit like being at, have

1:57

you ever been to the horse racing? Have you ever been

1:59

and seen horse racing?

1:59

or Greyhound Racing. Greyhound

2:02

Racing, yeah. Yeah, Greyhound Racing's a

2:04

little bit different, but there's similar

2:06

sort of things, in the brilliant truth, you turn up and you

2:08

have not got the slightest clue who

2:11

the best runner is. And of course, in

2:13

the horse race, you get this bit where they get the kind

2:15

of the paddock bit, where they're walking around the paddock, and

2:17

you get that in Greyhound Racing as well, when

2:19

the owners will walk the dogs around the track. And essentially,

2:22

you'll go, yeah, I like the look of that one. And

2:25

I have far bit from me to be

2:27

flippant about this, but he goes to the

2:29

Greyhound Racing, go, I'm going for that dog

2:31

there, because it does stun a shit on the track. So

2:33

clearly, a little bit lighter now

2:36

than the other dogs. And with

2:38

the mascots, I'm not suggesting that any of the mascots

2:41

did a shit on the day. Really?

2:44

We've started in style

2:46

today, haven't we? Anyway. You in particular.

2:49

Yeah. Basically, you look at them, you think,

2:51

I like the look of that one. And what I decided is, obviously,

2:53

the mascots are largely men. I

2:56

assume they're mostly men, although there may

2:58

have been a couple of women in there, I honestly don't know. But

3:00

judging by the size of them, I would say mostly men. Inside

3:03

big costumes, and those costumes are really quite difficult

3:06

to run in. And so of course, when you watch the mascots come

3:08

out, they start to go, the advantage is clearly with

3:11

those mascots who are running in normal

3:14

boots, not kind of enormous comedy foam

3:16

shoes, whose costumes are relatively

3:19

light and therefore can be run in relatively easily.

3:22

And when Amund came out, and

3:24

you could see that the leg part of Amund's costume

3:27

was basically normal and was wearing

3:29

football boots, and very stylish football boots too, I

3:31

might say, I thought, Amund's gonna win. And then

3:34

this fly-like thing

3:36

came out representing Girona. And

3:38

again, was wearing kind of like leotard, not

3:41

leotard, what's the word I'm looking for? You know, like kind of very

3:44

tight jogging trousers. And I thought,

3:46

that's a huge advantage. And a little

3:49

bit of cheating this, in the 100 meters,

3:52

Amund took his or her wings

3:54

off to reduce weight.

3:57

Now I think that's a little bit cheeky.

3:59

If you saw the rapping

4:02

Sant'Ombre bear, you knew he had no

4:04

chance. That costume was in Nook or Bess. Yes.

4:08

No chance, it is. Anyway, it was one moment.

4:11

What about our favourite cucumber? Do you know

4:13

what? I'm not messing. It's disappointing.

4:16

I'm not messing here. I promise you I'm not making

4:18

this up. Super Fabito looked knackered

4:20

after the first round. I'm

4:24

not surprised because last week I actually

4:26

saw the man who inhabits Super Fabito's costume

4:29

when he did not look like an

4:31

athlete. No. See,

4:34

there was inside information for you. That was proper

4:36

inside of betting. I also

4:38

suspect... Now, I don't want to cast aspersions

4:41

upon this. But imagine you build up an event

4:43

like this and you bring all of the mascots down to

4:45

Madrid for a Sunday morning Olympics.

4:48

I would like to think that the people inside those mascot

4:50

costumes all went out and

4:53

really enjoyed themselves on Saturday night. And

4:56

I had this sort of image of one of the

4:58

poor mascot people, not mascot

5:01

mascot, feeling a bit sick inside

5:03

one of those costumes. It was really quite a grim thought.

5:08

That didn't happen as far as we know. As

5:10

far as we know, no. Although

5:12

one of them did say to me, I had a conversation

5:14

with one of them, and he did say to me, because

5:17

obviously you're leaning into a head and talking, you're not really

5:19

sure what's going on in there. I said, God, it must

5:21

be suffering in there. And

5:24

he said, you cannot imagine.

5:28

Oh, wow. It was actually very

5:30

pleasantly a warm day. It was

5:32

very hot. Yeah, yeah. Not ideal

5:34

conditions. So congratulations to

5:36

Amunt the Valencian bat, second

5:38

place to Dimoni the Majorcan devil,

5:41

and third place was shared by Atletico Madrid

5:43

and Honduras, the very respective

5:46

mascots. Andorra's mascot,

5:48

who really cheated, by the way, is an

5:50

incredible full start in the first run

5:52

that Andorra's mascot did. And they just let it go.

5:55

And he must have got himself a six or seven meter lead

5:57

on the others anyway. taking

6:00

it quite a seriously few heads of

6:02

it. Let's move on. We thought we'd start the program

6:08

talking about the mascot Olympics. We

6:11

have to start our discussion

6:13

of footballing matters on

6:15

a note that we'd rather not, but we

6:17

have to talk about injuries because this

6:20

international break has been really quite bad

6:22

for La Liga teams with injuries

6:25

being picked up by some key

6:27

players for their respective sides, Verac

6:29

Morici, for Mallorca, Michelo

6:31

de Arfabal, for Real Sossitad and

6:33

perhaps the most high-profile injuries being

6:36

Vinicius Jr. Real Madrid,

6:38

who looks like he's going to be out for about 10 weeks

6:40

with a muscle problem, and

6:43

Gavi, who last night started

6:46

Spain's Euro qualifier against

6:48

Georgia and had to go off with

6:51

what looks like a very serious

6:53

knee injury. It looks like a cruciate

6:55

ligament injury. It's not yet confirmed

6:58

at the time of recording, but it looks like he's

7:00

going to miss, quite possibly, the

7:02

rest of the season.

7:04

This has led to much discussion,

7:06

as it usually does. One

7:09

of the

7:10

bones of contention have been people

7:13

laying the blame at Spain manager

7:15

Luis de la Fuente for playing

7:18

Gavi last night. Both

7:20

you and I are aligned in our feelings,

7:23

I feel, Sid. This is really quite

7:25

unfair to blame Luis de la Fuente for this. There

7:27

will be many Barcelona fans who are listening

7:29

to us and really quite angry at Luis

7:31

de la Fuente for starting

7:34

Gavi in this game, where he played 90 minutes

7:36

against Filippras a few days previously.

7:40

But he's completely entitled

7:43

to play Gavi in a game,

7:45

which by the way, was not meaningless for Spain.

7:48

They were playing for first place. Yes,

7:50

they'd already qualified for the Euros. They had

7:52

not wrapped up first place. If they'd lost

7:55

this game and Scotland had won, Spain

7:57

would have been second, which means you're not ceded for

7:59

the Euros. Which is a relatively

8:01

big deal and you can imagine a press

8:04

would have reacted So I think it's

8:06

a starting point worth underlining. This was

8:08

not a meaningless. Yeah full-speed I'm

8:11

glad you said that because I was going to have to if you hadn't

8:13

and because it's been very striking seeing

8:15

people talk about This is meaningless or a dead rubber

8:17

and it wasn't and as you say Maybe

8:19

it's only first point placed in the group But that

8:22

being a seed or not in the euros can have a very

8:24

very significant impact on your chances

8:26

of getting out the group And

8:28

so so it wasn't it wasn't a finished

8:30

game by any means it wasn't a dead rubber I

8:34

I'm a little bit I'm a little

8:37

bit into minds on on this because I think

8:39

I think the thing the way I feel about it really

8:41

is fundamentally that the the If

8:44

you like, it's not so much that I don't

8:46

think that Luis de la Fuente can be criticized

8:49

I think he can or at least I very I think there can

8:51

be some debate about the way this is managed And

8:54

I think as well that the focus on one man

8:57

Individualizes something macro it creates

9:00

a micro Analysis of something

9:03

that's a macro problem. I think that's much bigger

9:05

than than that And

9:07

I do think there are some questions to be held against it.

9:10

I think what what makes me I Don't

9:12

know if defensive is the right word, but what makes me

9:15

defensive I guess of loses a love when they

9:17

all makes me feel like I want to to stand

9:19

in his corner on this It's the ferocity

9:22

of of the criticism of him because

9:24

I think there is a worthwhile debate here I think there

9:27

are questions that say well, why is Gavi the

9:29

only one? I think of course he's been He's

9:32

been bitten by his own words in a way because the

9:34

day before he says in the pregame press conferences

9:36

Gavi doesn't want to stop Gabi's hyperactive Gabi

9:39

keeps on going This is what best players do and and

9:42

I think as a Barcelona supporter I

9:44

think you can look at this and you can

9:47

say hang on he played 90 minutes the

9:49

other day Why is he playing again? He's played nine hundred

9:51

and ninety minutes for Barcelona in La Liga this

9:53

year Let alone in European competition.

9:56

Why him why why not others and

9:58

I think up to a point there's There's a

10:00

degree of justification

10:03

in saying that and there is a degree of saying, well, what about your responsibility

10:05

towards Gabby? I think there's a number

10:07

of reasons why that doesn't entirely stand up

10:10

and the number of reasons why I would defend Louis Laffonti.

10:12

One of them, of course, is that this isn't an injury

10:15

that's been provoked by fatigue. It's

10:17

not an injury that is about

10:19

a number of minutes played over

10:23

playing a player, muscle problems.

10:25

It's a fortuitous moment

10:28

in which he treads badly, twists his knee, and

10:30

snaps his knee. That can happen to a player who's played 999

10:33

minutes and it can happen to a player who's played none.

10:36

Now, I don't want with that to simply

10:39

just blow it away as if it doesn't matter. Of course,

10:41

there is a consideration for players and actually,

10:44

I must admit, I looked at it and thought, I'm surprised

10:46

that Gabby's starting, given the

10:48

weight of players. This is a 19-year-old kid who's

10:50

played, I think, 111 times Barcelona, who's played 27 times

10:54

Spain already. The number of minutes

10:56

he's playing is too many. I

10:59

say it's too many. There's a little bit of me that's uneasy

11:02

even saying that because I'm not a medical expert.

11:04

I'm not a physiotherapist. I'm not a fitness coach. I

11:08

think intuitively we can all look at this and say, this is

11:10

too much, but we don't have, if you like, the medical

11:12

science to back this argument up. I

11:15

can't claim to be able to pick my

11:17

way through that, but obviously, there

11:19

are more minutes for him than anyone else. The reason that I

11:21

would go with you on this is that

11:24

one of the problems I find when we have these kinds

11:26

of discussions is that everybody wants

11:28

it to be someone else's responsibility to protect

11:30

the players. You get this situation,

11:33

don't you, where you say, well, it's a disgrace that

11:35

he's playing for the national team. Well,

11:36

okay, so what?

11:37

So the clubs can play as much as they want,

11:39

but the national team can't, or vice versa, by

11:43

the way. This doesn't speak

11:45

directly to Gabby's injury and I'm not going to be so stupid

11:47

as to claim that it does. But, for example,

11:50

what happens when clubs have some time

11:52

off? Let's say, for argument's sake, you say, well, let's protect the players.

11:54

Let's have some time off. What happens? Clubs

11:56

tend to arrange friendlies, as Barcelona

11:58

have done. And

12:02

the one thing I suppose that stands in the club's defence

12:04

in this whole debate is that they are the ones that pay the players.

12:07

But I must admit, and this is maybe a socio-political

12:09

position from my point of view, I'm a little bit

12:11

uneasy about the sort of the

12:13

simplicity of saying, well, we pay, therefore

12:16

we choose. Seems to me,

12:18

I don't know, I'm just a bit uneasy with that

12:20

argument. It seems a bit kind of crass to me. On

12:24

the 20th of December, Barcelona play

12:26

their last league game of 2023. They're

12:28

at home to Almeria in Montjuic.

12:31

Twenty-four hours later, they are playing Club America,

12:34

the Mexican Giants, in Dallas on

12:37

the 21st of December.

12:40

That doesn't exactly scream play. No.

12:43

And again, you know, let me stress,

12:45

this isn't to say that that is responsible

12:48

for Gabby's injury. That would be absurd because of course

12:50

that is in the future. Gabby's injury didn't happen in

12:52

the future. But I think

12:54

the point we're making here is that I think

12:56

we probably all agree, don't mean that there's too many

12:58

games. I think we probably all agree that there is concern

13:01

about the strains being put on players, about

13:03

the intensity of football, about

13:05

the kind of

13:07

demands made on players' bodies. And

13:09

in the case of Gabby, we're talking about a 19-year-old. And

13:12

again, I don't have the physiology

13:15

reports nor the expertise to be able

13:17

to judge this. But

13:19

when you talk about these demands, you say, well, everyone always

13:21

says we need to sit down and sort this out and we all need to talk

13:23

about it. But the problem is, of course, I think far too

13:26

often, everybody says, well, it's you that's playing

13:28

them too much. It's never me that's playing them too much.

13:31

And that is across the board. And as you say, let's go to

13:33

Luis de la Fuente because it's how you

13:35

open this. Within

13:37

the context of

13:39

the way that the fixture list is,

13:43

does de la Fuente have an individual responsibility

13:45

towards Gabby? Yes, as he does to all of his

13:47

players. But he doesn't create this

13:49

overload of games. He

13:51

is not playing in a dead rubber. He does

13:53

have a responsibility to win for Spain. And

13:56

of course, I'm sure as a conversation pregame,

13:58

which actually has come back to bite left one a little

14:00

bit and made him look even worse. Actually

14:02

what he says is sort of okay and what

14:05

he's saying really is that I've spoken to Gevi, Gevi

14:07

keeps playing, we've looked at him, he's

14:09

not physically at any more risk, I mean

14:12

he hasn't used these exact words I'm using now but the trust

14:14

of what he's saying is this, any more risk than anybody

14:16

else.

14:18

Would I have started him?

14:20

Possibly not, but I understand

14:22

why you do, because as you've said I mean let's go back

14:24

to that starting point because this seems to have been forgotten by everyone, this

14:26

was not a dead rubber. This wasn't an

14:29

irrelevant game. Much as it can feel

14:31

like it's a bath full of fans and I absolutely understand

14:33

that, I do. This wasn't an

14:35

irrelevant game and also a national

14:38

coach only has his players,

14:41

there's a small amount every

14:43

year, he's not working with these players

14:45

week in week out, it is only natural that

14:47

you want the players to get

14:50

minutes within a structure, within a team,

14:52

with certain new team mates that they're not

14:54

used to, to sort of build

14:58

an idea, an identity and you do that by

15:00

playing together. So I completely

15:02

understand why he would want to play.

15:06

The question is... Yeah there's another thing Phil

15:08

in all of this, sorry, which is that I sometimes

15:10

feel like, and again I do understand this from

15:13

a, what's the word, I suppose from the point

15:15

of view of an asset and a point of view

15:17

of the finances and I understand that although as I say

15:19

that makes me feel a little queasy, that

15:21

just that kind of whole idea that I pay therefore

15:24

I decide and actually up to a point I can see

15:26

the justification in it, I'm just not sure I

15:28

like it on a kind of ideological level but anyway

15:30

that's I suppose a broader debate. But

15:33

it just feels to me that it's so easy

15:35

to point the finger at the national teams all

15:37

the time. The very existence of the phrase

15:40

FIFA virus, I must admit, gets on my nerves

15:43

because we act like players only

15:45

ever get injured when they go to national teams. Now there

15:48

is a potential for this and I'd actually love to know what

15:50

a fitness coach thinks about this or what a physiologist

15:52

thinks about this. I wonder

15:55

if there is a greater potential for injury

15:57

with the national teams because you're changing the routines

15:59

of training.

15:59

training,

16:01

because you're changing the dynamics of the way that a player

16:03

works physically, because you're adding

16:05

travel to it. Now, maybe less so with European

16:07

players, maybe more so with those who play for the South

16:09

American teams, because of course they're travelling around transatlantic,

16:12

and maybe that makes a difference, the jet lag and

16:14

all those kinds of elements that kind of play into

16:17

it, because, you know, and I'm making a slightly

16:19

arrogant European assumption here, but the majority

16:21

of elite players are playing in Europe. So

16:24

that's why I make that point. But I

16:26

just

16:26

sometimes feel like, are we not in a

16:29

position where we're kind of blaming the

16:31

national teams all the time, because it's a bit easy,

16:33

and

16:33

I think it's a little unfair.

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17:52

So this seems like a problem

17:54

which doesn't seem to have any solution, because

17:56

we know, and FIFA knows, and

17:58

the club knows, that more

17:59

matches equal more money. So

18:02

we've already expanded the European

18:04

Championships, it's going to be expanded World

18:06

Cup, the Champions League is going to be expanded, the

18:08

Club World Cup is going to be expanded as well. Everyone's

18:10

expanding. Everybody is expanding. Okay.

18:13

So then you think about the players and their welfare

18:16

and is a player going to say,

18:18

oh no, I don't want to go and play for my national

18:20

team because I need to keep

18:23

myself fit for my club? No,

18:26

no one's going to say that. Very, very few. Tony

18:28

Cross has said that. I mean, in terms of the league players having

18:30

already won the World Cup with Germany, the players

18:32

themselves aren't saying

18:34

that because for them going and playing with their countries

18:36

is the biggest best thing quite possibly. But

18:39

then you've got players coming out and saying, well, you know,

18:41

we can't continue this can't keep going. You've

18:44

got fans coming out and saying, no, this

18:46

is an out this is outrageous. But those same things

18:49

still want their teams to sign the

18:51

best players and get

18:53

money to sign the best players and they get

18:55

money by doing lucrative money, speeding

18:57

tours across the summer

19:00

or even organizing a mid

19:03

season friendly for money. So it

19:06

feels like what you were saying, nobody is really

19:08

prepared to take responsibility of this.

19:10

Everybody seems to be complaining about it. But

19:12

so what's the what's the

19:15

what's the solution? Because nobody's

19:17

proposing an actual solution that they are willing

19:20

to implement.

19:22

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Because the expansion of games

19:25

is everybody. And so for example, I think

19:28

what you're seeing today is from some quarters

19:30

and and forgive me, by the way, because I am probably showing

19:32

my own bias here. I think regular

19:35

listeners to us will know that I'm opposed

19:37

to the idea of the Super League because for a whole number

19:39

of reasons, there are some elements

19:42

of the Super League, by the way, which I can which I can accept, but

19:44

I'm opposed to other elements of it. But

19:46

and so this may well be revealing my bias, or at least my

19:48

sensitivity to this particular argument. Anyway, you're

19:51

seeing a lot of people today essentially saying,

19:54

see, this is why the Super League necessary because we

19:56

need to take the power away from you away from FIFA. Now, I

19:58

thought it's worth by the way, I can actually see an argument that

20:00

says let's take some of the power away from FIFA and UEFA,

20:02

let's give the clubs a little bit more power, except of course

20:05

that the part of the problems that the Super League and certainly

20:07

part of the problems that UEFA has had has been actually

20:10

trying to pander to the increasing power of the biggest clubs.

20:13

The issue with UEFA isn't so much UEFA

20:15

as UEFA the pressure from those bigger

20:17

clubs who now want to break away. And it

20:21

seems to me that that's a rather simplistic

20:23

one because essentially what the

20:25

Super League will be saying is that we'll increase our games

20:28

and therefore you have to decrease yours. And

20:31

so again it's not saying right let's

20:33

sit down, let's work this out, because I

20:35

just sort of think that's a myth. Now I admit the problem

20:37

with me saying this is that it sounds like I'm

20:39

saying well let's not even try and find a solution then because no one's

20:41

going to bother. And there is a risk

20:43

of me effectively saying well forget it because no one's going

20:45

to do it. But that's the problem is I think no one's going to. I actually

20:48

tweeted this on I think

20:50

it was Saturday. It was a column

20:52

in ass from Joaquin Marrotto and

20:55

I know Joaquin very well and

20:57

he made the point, it was the last line and I actually

21:00

tweeted a photograph of the last line

21:02

and said this actually makes me feel a bit queasy. And

21:04

essentially the last line was it said if the

21:06

Super League wins this court case there will be an

21:09

immediate reduction of international

21:11

games. And I thought to myself

21:14

so what you're saying is the second you get power, the first

21:17

thing is you stop playing, never

21:19

mind we'll think about it, no you stop playing.

21:21

And by the way I'm not sure they'd be able to, that's

21:23

another issue by the way. But anyway you stop

21:26

playing. And as you say this idea, let's

21:28

go back to what you were saying about the idea of players saying

21:31

okay I've got to play less to protect myself

21:33

because this is too many games. And you said

21:36

not many players are going to say I want to play less for the national team.

21:38

And this is part of the point which is that right

21:40

now a player only really has the choice

21:43

if he wants to reduce his games of saying I'll stop the national

21:45

team. No player has the chance to say you know what

21:47

league cup I'm not going to play in it.

21:50

FA Cup I'm not going to play in it.

21:52

I'm only going to play in the league from now on. Because

21:54

of course you've got a club now again that's because

21:56

that's who's paying you, that's where the

21:58

money is, that's an

21:59

And I understand

22:00

all of those arguments. Well, I think it's a myth to suggest

22:03

there isn't a contribution to a player's earnings or

22:06

even to a club's status from

22:08

international football. The World Cup generates

22:10

an interest which then generates players,

22:12

which then generates a sense of clubs buying

22:15

that player. Look at Real Madrid's Galácsco project.

22:18

Why did they buy Hamith?

22:19

Because of a World Cup.

22:22

Why was Brazilian Ronaldo the biggest thing ever? Because

22:25

of a World Cup. You know, why is

22:27

he down everything that he is? Not just because of what he

22:29

did at Real Madrid. In fact, I would say less about

22:33

that than about what he did with France, although

22:35

that's obviously a broad debate that we could have. And

22:37

so I think this idea that it's purely

22:40

one-sided in terms of who is contributing

22:42

and who is taking. And this is the club's argument,

22:44

and I do understand this club argument that says we contribute

22:47

and you just take. I don't think that's entirely

22:49

true. And I think that's

22:51

part of the problem is that everybody wants everyone

22:54

else to take responsibility but not to do it for

22:56

themselves. And I

22:58

don't actually know where the solution lies in this because

23:01

for all it's worth, I don't trust any of

23:03

the people at management level in football to

23:05

do this. There's also another part of this, and

23:07

it's a slight segue, but

23:09

allow me to pick up on it. There's this

23:12

idea somehow that we've got to keep generating

23:14

more and more and more. And this is a, this is kind of, I

23:16

suppose, a political, social

23:18

and economic idea generally, this idea of

23:20

constant growth. Constant

23:24

growth is in itself problematic and also a

23:26

little bit of a myth. We've got to grow more

23:28

because the players are earning more, so we've got to have more, and so

23:30

the players earn more. This is kind

23:32

of a curious idea, isn't there, that if we didn't grow

23:35

more, then this would collapse.

23:38

Why would it collapse? Explain this to me. Explain

23:40

to me why this would collapse. Now,

23:43

it might change the balance of power, and of course part of the problem

23:45

is that you've got a huge amount of investment that other

23:47

clubs are trying to catch up with, and that's a much, much

23:49

broader debate. Why would it collapse? So,

23:52

but if we didn't earn this money, the players would go. Where

23:54

would they go?

23:56

Are you telling me that instead

23:58

of making, I don't know, what? he

24:00

makes right? Bellingham. Instead of making 10

24:02

million euros a year are you telling me

24:04

that if there was a sudden recession

24:06

in football and players like

24:08

Bellingham at the elite level, now lower level

24:11

players have a

24:12

much much more difficult question to deal

24:14

with but let's because we're talking about the elite level because you've

24:16

got people like those involved in Super

24:18

League Florentino Peddes in particular talking about saving

24:20

football and this is this can't work and

24:23

we need to make more money because this can't work and

24:25

there's a and you sort of say well making money

24:27

for who and for what because if it's about

24:29

the players wages let's say for our right so let's

24:32

go to this argument of this example I was going to come

24:34

up with. Bellingham let's say fragments say makes 10 million

24:36

euros a year yeah imagine there's a huge recession

24:38

and all of a sudden round would you say listen

24:42

you're only going to make 1.5 million euros a year at

24:45

that point do you think Bellingham and all elite footballers

24:47

go not going to play anymore are going to

24:49

go and be a hairdresser instead? No

24:52

but they might say we're going to Saudi Arabia. Well

24:55

this is the thing so it's about the comparisons

24:57

within it exactly that and

25:00

yeah

25:01

maybe

25:02

maybe and that's where we have an issue

25:04

and that's where because it's this

25:07

idea that that sort of somehow football

25:09

itself would die well football in certain places would but

25:12

then you come to this Saudi idea do you not think at

25:14

some point that the promoters of for

25:17

example the promoters of Super League and again apologies

25:19

because it probably sounds like my own particular

25:21

predilections are coming through here and maybe they are but

25:24

the promoters of Super League do we think they're going to ignore Saudi

25:26

Arabian money? No. There

25:30

you go. Indeed. All

25:32

right listen we're going to leave it

25:34

there for the time being on the podcast but send

25:36

us your thoughts on our discord you

25:38

can tweet us as well tell us what you think about

25:41

this if you are a patron

25:43

you have access to our discord

25:46

as well as numerous other things

25:48

not least the Q&A podcast we do every

25:50

Tuesday a bonus podcast every Thursday

25:52

and Friday as well some patrons have access

25:55

to our monthly zoom calls as

25:57

well we've got one of those coming up shortly as well so if you

25:59

want to get

25:59

get involved, more Spanish

26:02

football content, it's four

26:04

euros a month, around about that, patreon.com

26:07

forward slash TSFP, get

26:09

involved there.

26:11

I guess staying with the

26:13

concept of injuries, but in a more actually

26:16

pragmatic light rather than conceptual,

26:19

Vinicius picking up this hamstring

26:21

injury with Brazil in their

26:23

defeat to Colombia means that Real

26:26

Madrid's injury list is

26:28

really

26:28

quite staggering. So

26:31

he's out, Camavinga

26:33

got injured in this international

26:35

break as well because a Spandembele fell on him

26:38

in training. They are added to

26:40

the names of Courtois, Kepa,

26:43

Milital, Chameney, Ceballos,

26:46

Guler and Jude Bellingham with a shoulder

26:48

problem as well. They're all out. This

26:51

is quite an extraordinary injury

26:53

list for Real Madrid. I

26:55

mean, just kind of a brief

26:57

entry point to this as well. I

27:00

feel a little bit bad

27:02

that it feels like we've done the Spanish radio

27:04

thing of go on the debate part first.

27:06

And there is a very basic thing, which I suppose we probably

27:09

didn't mention as well as we should, or

27:12

as deeply as we should there, which is applicable to Vinicius

27:14

as well. Just

27:15

very sad.

27:17

It's very sad that a player is out for that long. It's

27:19

very sad the impact that has. And for him and for

27:21

someone like Gavi, a 19-year-old

27:23

who I think is a wonderful footballer, and Vinicius

27:25

who's an absolutely wonderful footballer, and to

27:27

not have the chance to watch them play. But for them more than

27:30

anything else, it's horrendous.

27:33

And obviously, look, the bigger injuries in Madrid's case, as you

27:35

say, the long-term ones are Milital and Courtois.

27:38

If you look at the impact, I think

27:40

Gavi will have a huge impact on Barcelona, by the way, a huge

27:43

impact. And as you say, the Madrid injury

27:45

list is very, very big. I

27:47

wonder how they'll manage this. Now

27:50

obviously, some of those injuries are longer-term

27:52

than others. So I think, for example, that

27:54

Bellingham may even only miss

27:57

one more game. I think it's perfectly

27:59

plausible that.

27:59

In fact, I think it's half plausible that he

28:02

plays

28:02

this first Madrid game at the weekend, but I

28:05

think he may only miss one. I

28:07

think that we'll probably see Kepa back relatively

28:10

quickly. But it's

28:12

a real issue. I suppose this is one of the

28:14

arguments for a big squad. And

28:17

Madrid do have very, very good players. But this is a huge,

28:19

huge hole taken out of their team. And

28:22

you think about the structuring of that

28:25

side. And it's

28:27

actually difficult to see who plays those.

28:29

No one really plays like Vinicius. Not even Rodrigo,

28:31

who's possibly the nearest thing they've got. No

28:34

one really plays like Bellingham. It's

28:37

the nearest thing they've got, Brahim. Certainly positionally, maybe

28:39

it's Brahim at the moment, although he's not really quite

28:41

the same kind of player. I don't think anyone plays

28:44

with a combination of qualities

28:46

that Camavinga has. There isn't a natural

28:49

deep-line midfielder, apart from Xioameni,

28:51

albeit Camavinga was playing there. But of course, he's now

28:53

not available. So presumably, Tony Cruz.

28:56

It's going to

28:59

be very, very interesting. And I realize

29:01

that's quite a weak thing to say. It's going to be interesting. But

29:03

it is going to be interesting to see how Angelotti restructures

29:06

the side to try and fill these gaps.

29:07

They're away at Cadiz on New

29:10

Sunday. So let's see how they get

29:12

on there. Congratulations to Abasa

29:14

Femini, who beat Real Madrid 5-0 in

29:16

the Classico yesterday. 38,707 fans were there at Monjuk. Caroline

29:22

Graham-Hanson was the star for

29:24

Abasa. It equalled their biggest

29:26

win yet in the fixture. It

29:29

was a big game, obviously. Barcelona

29:31

came into it just three points ahead of Real Madrid,

29:33

but they're now further

29:35

clinging after that big, big victory

29:40

in the Classico in Monjuk. I was looking at some of the

29:42

photos some of our

29:43

listeners had sent to us, and they were sitting behind

29:46

one of the goals. The

29:48

view was pretty rubbish, Abboudi said.

29:50

It is not an amazing

29:53

stadium to watch a football in. I

29:55

have to confess, obviously I was there. The

29:57

only time I've been there was in the press area.

30:00

and it was not bad the view there at

30:02

all. But if you're behind one of the goals and particularly

30:04

low down, it's really

30:06

quite poor. So beware. Yeah, I'm actually

30:10

a little bit surprised that

30:13

nobody came up with a solution that Al Maria

30:15

have done and Mallorca have done because

30:17

you don't even need to do it permanently, which is to have temporary

30:19

stands on the running track behind the goals

30:22

so that you can bring the coach to the pitch and

30:24

you effectively leave the

30:26

big curve behind the goals empty. And

30:29

it's partly empty anyway because obviously they've tarpauled in

30:31

the first, I don't know how many rows because

30:33

you've arrived at the bottom, you genuinely can't see anything at all.

30:37

In terms of the game, by the way, I think it was a

30:39

demonstration again that although Madrid are getting

30:41

close to Barcelona are just on a different

30:43

level. But then of course, they're on a different level to

30:45

just about everybody at the moment. In

30:48

the Segundo de Vichon, there was a massive victory

30:50

for the mighty Ray Loviedo who beat A-bar

30:53

2-1 with an 89th minute penalty.

30:55

It was particularly nice that Loviedo won this

30:58

weekend because it was a special international

31:00

fans weekend, wasn't it? It was. Listeners

31:03

who were sort of emotionally blackmailed

31:05

into buying shares from you about 11

31:07

years ago, and

31:10

they're still holding on to that

31:12

piece of paper and they feel like they're part of the

31:15

club, which is something beautiful and special that has

31:17

been created. And every year they do this

31:19

international fans weekend, don't they? Yeah,

31:22

and so they had trips to see

31:24

the training ground around the club museum to

31:26

meet some of the players, obviously at the ground itself

31:28

for the game. I think

31:31

it's really important as well. I've

31:34

said this both publicly, but I've also insisted

31:36

on it privately with people

31:38

at the club that it's not

31:40

enough to say, thanks very much, you bought the shares.

31:42

I think you really want people to feel,

31:45

I mean, they don't have to, obviously. You want

31:47

people to feel that if they would like to, they

31:49

can be participants in the club. They can genuinely be fans.

31:51

They can go there, that they feel that

31:54

sense of gratitude. And I'm glad

31:56

that they got a victory as well against a really

31:58

good side, Abar, and obviously, Oviedo actually very

32:01

very good indeed in the in the second half very

32:03

good in the second half. Elsewhere

32:05

in the Segunda, Valladolid and Leganes drew

32:08

in the big game at the top. Espanyol

32:10

beat Elche 2-0 so Leganes

32:12

are top on 35 points then Sporting

32:15

and Valladolid are on 29 points

32:18

so a bit of a gap there. Espanyol are on 28. Eibar

32:21

and Racing Ferran completely playoff

32:23

places. The mighty Oviedo up to

32:26

11th which is terrific

32:28

to see. That's it for today's edition

32:30

of the Spanish Football Podcast. Thanks very much for

32:32

joining us amigos. If you want us for the rest of the week

32:35

we're going to be over at patreon.com forward slash

32:37

TSFP producing loads more

32:39

content for our patrons so why not come

32:41

and join us or maybe you can give the

32:43

gift of TSFP to the Spanish

32:45

football fan in your life this holiday season.

32:48

Just occurred to me now but that might not be a bad idea.

32:50

That's a great idea. I hadn't

32:52

thought of that. I hadn't either but

32:54

you know if you were an American podcast Sid, God

32:57

we would be a lot more

32:59

on the commercial aspect shall we say but we're not

33:01

and we're just muddling through but yeah

33:03

you get 10% off if you subscribe

33:07

annually so maybe that could be an option

33:09

if you're looking for an alternative Christmas

33:11

gift this year. Thanks very much

33:13

for joining us amigos and we'll speak soon. Adios.

33:16

Cheerio.