3:59

it's better than Burgham's but I am impossibly

4:02

biased when it comes to it. Don't ignore what I say about it. It

4:06

is worth picking up on this because the

4:08

nature of that team was that Mendieta would

4:12

bomb through and join the forwards and Lopez

4:14

would lead the forward line. You had Kylian

4:16

Thalith by the second European Cup final but not in

4:18

the 99 final. You had this very,

4:21

very dynamic team and it's

4:23

worth remembering that they reached the 2000 European

4:25

Cup final by totally taking apart

4:27

Barcelona in the semi-final. It's

4:29

this kind of incredible wave

4:32

after wave of attack, incredibly quick,

4:34

very, very vertical this phrase that we

4:36

repeat a lot and very, very different

4:38

to what comes later. So when you say that the

4:41

first Cup final is really important

4:43

because it feels like it sets an area in place,

4:45

I think it only feels like it sets an area in place with hindsight

4:48

and when you look at it as a run of games because at the time

4:50

it didn't, not least what maybe it did in terms of

4:52

the next two European Cup finals but when Benitez

4:54

takes over for example as manager, jumping

4:57

on a bit, it feels like he's taking

5:00

over a club that's in crisis. Economically,

5:02

they're not in great shape. The best players have

5:04

gone. There's all sorts of internal divisions. There's

5:07

a new president who never fully has

5:09

the backing of all of the shareholders of the club, of all

5:11

of those who can put him in place and take him

5:13

out of place again. There's a great line. I

5:16

think it was Benitez himself

5:18

or if not it was someone talking about Benitez who described when

5:21

Benitez arrived as they haven't signed a coach, they've

5:23

signed a ball fighter, someone who could manage

5:25

these beasts running at him. Well Benitez was quite

5:28

an interesting

5:28

appointment at that time and a controversial one because you

5:30

looked at the teams he'd managed before that and

5:32

it was, Valencia was a huge head partner.

5:35

I mean miles off that level. So

5:38

in that sense he was himself a surprise

5:40

appointment. We're getting ahead of ourselves a little

5:42

bit. We need to talk about

5:44

Claudio Ranieri and we need to talk about Ecto Cooper

5:46

as well. Ranieri, his first of

5:49

two spells in charge of Valencia

5:51

and then he left. And then to Atletico

5:54

of course, the team that they had just beaten in

5:56

the Cup Final. In the Cup Final, why did he leave

5:58

like that? Well

6:00

he fundamentally left, I mean

6:03

there's always those other doubts beneath the surface. But

6:05

it could have been different for him though, I don't know. It

6:07

could have been. I mean obviously the reality

6:10

of long-term is you have the opportunity to go to Athletica. At

6:13

that time that was definitely seen

6:15

as a big step up. Of course, you know talking about an Athletica

6:17

team that's won the double in 1996, we looked back

6:20

on it now and said wow they went down but there was no way

6:22

they were going to go down.

6:23

That team should never have gone down. You

6:26

know it was far too good for that and of course

6:28

as we've already talked about with Athletica before, I mean

6:30

that was a completely bizarre

6:33

set of circumstances that brought that about. And

6:35

Ranieri, I know there were players

6:37

in the Athletica Madrid squad at that time, were very

6:40

very disappointed with what they saw as his failure

6:43

to practice what he preached because he was aware

6:45

of the financial and economic

6:47

and institutional crisis at Athletica Madrid and

6:49

tried to create this kind of unity between squad

6:51

and Cuervo Tecnico as they call it in Spanish

6:53

against the club and then he

6:56

walked. Talk

6:58

to me about everyone's favourite chain

7:01

smoking, gruff voice, Argentine,

7:03

Ecto Cooper. I really quite like Ecto

7:05

Cooper, funny enough, but he wasn't always

7:07

that popular and one of the reasons he wasn't that popular was

7:10

because

7:10

he was a little bit dull. So you'd gone from

7:13

this really quite exciting, albeit

7:15

counter attacking team, really quite exciting team

7:18

to a manager who decided to really reinforce

7:21

his defence, a manager who to use the old

7:23

joke, if there was a competition for coming second,

7:25

would come second. I

7:28

mean, famously cursed in

7:30

finals, although that's always a bit unfair, I think,

7:32

because to be cursed in finals you have to get to

7:34

enough finals to lose. But then you would expect

7:37

to win one or two of the once in a while. I mean, obviously his

7:39

most recent one was Egypt and I remember interviewing

7:41

him before the recent Copper Africa,

7:43

what do you call that in English? The

7:46

African Copper Nations, and him talking about, well, you know, people

7:48

talk about this, but exactly as you say, you've got to get there,

7:50

you've got to take a team there, you're not necessarily favourites.

7:53

And it is worth pointing out that in the 2000

7:55

European Cup final, despite the fact that that season domestically,

7:58

they're miles better than Real Madrid. everyone

8:00

knows they're not favorites for the final the senate

8:02

favorites in two thousand one against

8:04

by munich and and you know what all the way to the penalty

8:06

shootout uh... yet he or

8:09

they could be they were favorites when he blew the league

8:11

on the final day within two millam when i had brazilian

8:13

out of time from brazilian out of i'm a bright

8:15

is sitting on the bench in tears when it happens

8:18

and so back to people was a curious one and

8:20

i remember very clearly a lot

8:22

of fans not liking the talk i'm with

8:24

him and burning but some of the groups

8:26

of fans adventure for stand up for

8:28

men or creating actually certain tension

8:31

between between groups of fans about you know baristas

8:34

yeah you should be defending this guy even if you don't

8:36

like it because he's our coach knows

8:38

a pretty novel idea in in some Spanish club

8:41

is currently the manager of Uzbekistan he had

8:43

i didn't know that i must confess i didn't know that

8:45

right don't know if they get to any finals anytime

8:48

soon if they do they will lose yeah i mean these

8:50

are in those two finals were incredibly uh... depressing

8:53

from from valenci's point of view because i

8:56

think as as we do also the first finally

8:58

right now i don't know if i follow it with a lost three

9:00

nil to realm a treaty

9:01

and i like we think it together they

9:03

can be not going to call for nothing passion

9:06

five two in one of those games he'd mentioned being boss

9:08

and demolishing by three-month morning then he

9:10

genuinely boom boom boom running for a bathhouse

9:13

boss on two and it was just like this kind of where

9:15

they were coming from they were too many of them

9:17

on the picture felt like what approaches practice

9:21

would it be fair to select your gun clopish

9:24

kind of touch about them in that it was a bit wild

9:26

it was a bit kind of that

9:28

was it was counter-attacking but with loads

9:31

of movement everywhere uh... probably

9:33

a little more direct than clop in the sense that it was look

9:35

for the front guys and have everyone come and join

9:37

but really exciting to watch and

9:40

and and and that was kind of the remnants of

9:42

that previous team but then you get

9:44

what kupa i'd say tries to do is reinforce

9:47

from the back and they become a lot less

9:49

exciting so they lost that final three nil

9:51

to realm uh... as i say

9:54

genuinely having been miles better

9:56

than realm of domestic and also miles worth pointing

9:58

out this is their first

9:59

time ever in the Champions League as the Champions

10:02

League as well and qualified for it previously

10:04

so they qualified for the first time get to the final

10:06

lose to Real Madrid the next year to go

10:09

all the way to the final. I can remember very

10:13

very little of the final and loads about

10:15

the journey to get there I went with my dad and my

10:17

brother oh right and we flew to

10:19

some airport somewhere in the south

10:21

of France yeah I remember which one hired

10:23

a car and drove around to Milan and

10:26

on the way and literally drove to the game and

10:28

from the game and back again and just

10:30

falling asleep at the wheel I remember taking a wrong turn in Genoa

10:32

and going down an old street

10:35

where it was like it was like some sort of stereotypical

10:38

thing genuinely a dark street in the middle

10:40

of the night seeing rats run across it and people

10:43

huddled around you know those bins with the holes in it.

10:45

Braziers are they called? Where they can have

10:47

worn their hands. In Genoa

10:49

having taken a wrong turn it was quite bizarre.

10:52

Wow but you saw Bayern Munich

10:54

beat them on penalties after a one run. I mean it

10:57

wasn't just that you know they beat them it was it was close

10:59

Santi Kanisatis told me

11:02

a story a nice story about this when

11:05

was it when did Pellegrino go to Southampton

11:07

a year and a half ago yeah anyway so I

11:09

phoned Kanisatis up so look Pellegrino goes Southampton

11:11

I need to write a profile piece about him can you tell me about him

11:14

it turns out

11:15

Santi Kanisatis is pretty much Pellegrino's best friend

11:17

okay and he started saying oh he's brilliant and all the rest

11:19

of it but hang on

11:20

I am very biased here to take everything I say with

11:22

Pincher's salt but he was telling me about the build up to

11:24

that final and telling me about Pellegrino

11:27

panicking about the possibility

11:29

that Valencia

11:30

win yes not that they would lose saying

11:33

that but if we win there'll be no motivation

11:35

left there'll be no because this is you know the everything

11:38

in their entire history for Valencia if we

11:40

win there'll be and the Kanisatis basically

11:42

look let's worry about that after we've won and of

11:44

course it's Pellegrino that misses the title

11:46

penalty. Maybe

11:48

he shouldn't have worried about winning or maybe he did it deliberately

11:51

to enable them usher

11:53

in this Champions era

11:55

of winning the league twice in three years maybe it

11:57

was deliberate maybe he's a genius so we've got Pellegrino

12:00

We know to thank for them going on to lift

12:02

the league trophy in 2002 They

12:05

did it again in 2004 and they were on of

12:07

course the UEFA Cup final in 2004 as well all Under

12:11

Rafa Benitez. Yes who comes

12:13

in and as you said quite a few eyebrows

12:15

were raised He was a lot and

12:17

not for the first time in his career as well. Now. That's true.

12:20

Yes Yeah, I mean this was this was

12:22

a golden age of Rafa Benitez as well. I guess 100% I

12:24

mean look he wouldn't do and I think I

12:26

think before we go on and kind of dissect

12:29

Benitez

12:29

Let's I almost feel like it's worth

12:32

point putting a marker down here at this point.

12:35

What he did was absolutely

12:38

mind-blowing to win two league titles

12:40

in three seasons So in the UEFA Cup

12:43

to have beaten that round of team that Galactica

12:45

remedy team, which is true was full of flaws There's no

12:47

doubt about it was full of flaws But to

12:49

have I'm outdone that side

12:52

with what he had which wasn't a

12:54

huge amount That time you had Deadpool,

12:56

you know, we've covered Euro death or in in

12:58

a previous episode Yeah, they finished ahead of head

13:00

of depo and there for work was second in that first league

13:03

top season one day So that was a you know, they had Tristan

13:05

for them topping the goalscore in chance So it wasn't about

13:07

even that just being around which it was feeling at a depo or

13:09

finishing end of bar So he were a bit of a mess at that point anyway,

13:12

but although they were coming back So for example when

13:14

they win the title in which one of the two

13:16

is it? I think it's the first no, it's the second

13:18

one In fact, yes when they win the title in 2004 and round

13:21

you'd lose their final five games and completely collapse

13:23

But Barcelona were recovering then that sort of run

13:25

Aldino season and Barcelona finished ahead of them So they've

13:28

beaten admittedly an embryonic Barcelona

13:30

team really good bottle and that round

13:32

you're glad to coincide with with Beckham as

13:35

the sort of star signing that year having

13:37

won it when It was sedan the star signing

13:39

correct me if I'm wrong But I think that in sedan

13:42

the season the trip away to my style is his

13:44

first league game for realm Madrid Or it's sunny.

13:46

So the way game. It's a first away

13:48

game and I remember off the game I was at my style that I remember

13:50

off in the game him basically

13:53

asking Michel Salgado Will it always

13:55

be like this because Valencia would

13:57

just I mean quite tough as well and

13:59

borderline

15:32

Even

16:00

though I think Baraka only starts 17 games and I'm

16:02

asked them to start something like 15 But because they

16:05

they together those two are the

16:07

driving force in the last 10 or 12 games of the season

16:09

So Baraka is a runner from midfield and

16:12

I'm are as one who makes sense of the fact that they're only playing

16:14

one up front Which sometimes is Anguero sometimes

16:16

is Salva Vallesta Very

16:18

occasionally is Juan Sanchez if I remember rightly

16:20

as well and those two were absolutely

16:23

brilliant in the last three months of season I'm our in Baraka

16:25

wonderful and of course all of it held

16:27

together by David Albela So Albela stands

16:29

there and Baraka does all the running. Yes Just

16:33

to give a context to some of the names and we've mentioned

16:35

quite a few names, but throughout

16:37

this this period So you start

16:40

off 1998 to 2000 you've got canisades duke

16:42

it pellegrino Mendieta Tilly

16:44

Gonzalez. Yeah I remember him went

16:46

to winter in yours Claudio

16:48

Lopez and Angola who you've mentioned in 2000 to 2001

16:50

or two you get Ayala Baraka Vicente

16:55

John Caru as well and

16:58

then John Norwegian John crew enormous and

17:00

then 2002 you get Albelda and Rufetti and

17:02

I'm are coming through And in 2004 you finish

17:04

up with the likes of mister Marchena

17:08

and Kuro Torres in

17:10

the in the team. Yeah, I mean cool authorities I mean

17:12

obviously it starts with Angla Mar being the right back of course

17:14

the Frenchman and then it becomes Cora Torres

17:16

who takes over from him? But as I said before, you know

17:18

It's only can he throw some cut up only that still there

17:20

when they win the league that had been there when

17:22

they won The cup in in 99 and you can only really

17:25

add My foreign office

17:27

gone by the by the beginning of them But you you know You

17:29

can only really add killing on thar lift from the European

17:31

Cup on in 2000 who still were there when they win the league

17:33

The first time around but he gets replaced eventually

17:35

by this end Well, it's a big turnover in a small amount

17:38

of your order and obviously part of this is because the financial

17:40

crisis partly It's because you have a situation which

17:42

you get to European Cup finals in a row for a club like that

17:44

And of course the immense majority of the place have to there's a there's

17:47

a dual factor It seems to me anyway,

17:49

this is this is kind of interpretive But there's a dual factor here

17:52

when that happens you play for Valencia two things happen

17:54

one You're in demand because your partner seen just

17:56

went to Champions League final to your

17:58

in demand and you play for a club

19:32

sometimes

20:00

and this is the best thing of all fancy having a striker

20:02

called Mr. Yeah I was gonna say tell us a bit about

20:05

mr. I always like that not just because he

20:07

had the bad hair with sort of the blonde highlights

20:09

and the mullet and he was he was Murfiano

20:12

and he was he was actually quite an interesting talker at times

20:14

but he didn't talk. Do you understand it?

20:16

Yes well that's that was parlour. But that season when they win

20:18

the league in 2004 he scores 19 goals in the league I think

20:22

it's 24 in all competitions he's been absolutely

20:24

massive for them and yet everybody

20:27

even that season were kind of thought he's

20:30

not that good is he? And Benitez

20:33

had made this player who the way that they played the counter-tacking

20:35

start suited him he would still miss chances even

20:37

then but the way they played meant that the chances he got

20:40

tend to be very clear. This is

20:42

a guy and I looked this up because I was I was kind

20:44

of wanted to check that my sensations were not wrong. This

20:46

is a guy who scored 99 goals in

20:49

his career 14 years so

20:51

on an average you know you're talking about less than nine

20:53

a season right? Well done. And yet he gets 24 of them

20:55

in one year. And that in a way tells

21:01

you that year was such an outlier it

21:03

was it was such a year when everything kind of came

21:05

together and you know he would normally play up front more or

21:08

less on his own sometimes with Olivera

21:10

with either Rufetio Jochelopeth on the right

21:12

with Vicente on the left and Vicente to say that season

21:15

was just brilliant. It was very very curious

21:17

and he used to talk and he's interesting as

21:19

I think those players who've embraced Benitez have

21:21

been because these are players who

21:23

nobody of

21:24

Benitez players very few actually really like

21:27

him but those who recognize that Benitez

21:29

has made them so much better can tell you great

21:31

things about the way that he worked. Fernando Torres

21:33

is a very good example. Javier Machirano

21:36

is another very good example and Mr. is one

21:38

of them I remember an interview with Mr. in which he basically said look

21:41

you would not believe

21:42

how often

21:44

the things that Rufetio said were going to happen in

21:46

the game happened exactly the

21:49

way he said they were going to. Time after

21:51

time after time a scenario that you hadn't thought

21:53

of and he said this will happen because of this this and this

21:56

and it did. And that's the kind of thing that really makes

21:58

a player sit up and think what this guy's got.

23:43

There

24:00

was a real awareness that they were doing something quite

24:02

miraculous and that this perhaps

24:04

was unsustainable But there's another important point

24:07

here, right? And that is that Benitez his relationship

24:09

with the club was terrible Well, that

24:11

was that was the thing isn't that the most important

24:13

point probably I remember there's a famous Manolo,

24:17

you're into later became president at that

24:19

stage was which would it direct? Anoralo

24:22

concerto general or whatever you call it and Benitez

24:25

actually using a phrase along the

24:27

lines of people who hang around in the shadows

24:29

with knives in their hands Right and it was about

24:31

him. He never actually said it was about him But it was about

24:33

him and the relationship was always very poor and

24:36

this comes down again to that that kind of infighting

24:38

one of the things that that Valencia era did very

24:40

well was create some superficial

24:43

stability with Jaime Ortee the president remember

24:46

the president with a with an orange wig and then

24:48

the enormous fan that Rodrigo played Hellwinger

24:50

to last year Yeah, and he'd come in after

24:52

a pack of rocks and pack of rocks was much more aggressive

24:55

much more Pagnacious much

24:57

like much harder to like to be honest Rose or

24:59

tea while he was a bit of a straw man It was a bit

25:02

weak. He was like bullet and he kind of papered

25:04

over the cracks for a few years But underneath

25:06

the surface Christ alive that the

25:09

situation wasn't good I

25:11

always say well people ask me, you know about

25:13

the the fan bases in Spain

25:15

and in in in Real Madrid Like

25:17

I've got Real Madrid fans to guard a bit unbearable

25:20

out there or whatever like this I always say the

25:22

most difficult fan base is Valencia Yes,

25:24

because they are not Real Madrid or Barcelona So

25:26

even the Roma driven Barcelona expect to win everything

25:28

every year Is

25:30

it because of this golden period got

25:33

a little bit spoiled maybe I well I mean, I wanted

25:35

to take this back to what we started with that thing about Hector

25:37

Cooper There was a bit of that then a whisking of

25:40

Hector Cooper then so maybe I mean a

25:42

friend of mine I don't know how how

25:44

much we want to kind of Share

25:46

this idea or embrace this idea But he always said that

25:48

one of the reasons with Valencia is that Valencia is actually a

25:51

city of plenty It's a it's a very

25:53

rich city. It's it's a city that although

25:55

it's on the coast doesn't turn towards the coast It actually turns inland

25:58

rice fields. It's been