0:01

Welcome to the spiritual artists podcast.

0:04

This is Chris Miller. I invite

0:06

you to join me as I interview artists

0:08

from a variety of disciplines. We'll

0:10

share powerful stories and lessons

0:12

learned while making their art.

0:21

Good morning. This is the spiritual artist podcast,

0:24

and this is Chris Miller. Your host. I

0:26

am really excited for today's interview,

0:28

but I wanted to tell you a little bit about the

0:30

history behind this , uh,

0:32

podcast series. Um, I wrote

0:35

a book called the spiritual artist and

0:37

it was about my process of creativity.

0:39

How , how do I connect with a

0:41

greater power and be in

0:44

that wonderful state of flow? How do

0:46

I create an environment and an atmosphere

0:48

where I'm connected and inspired?

0:50

And I hear those divine instinctive

0:53

voices in my head telling me what to do

0:55

as I paint. But as I progressed, I realized

0:57

that this skill actually

0:59

is valid for any creator, not

1:01

just a painter. It goes

1:03

all across the board. And when I say creator, I

1:05

mean, anybody that consciously connects

1:08

and creates, and that could be building a home

1:10

that could be raising children. And yes,

1:12

of course, that can be painting. So

1:15

as my journey has progressed, I've worked with

1:17

the mind and how the mind affects the

1:19

body. And so my first book

1:21

is really about that. How

1:23

does my mind, how can I use my mind

1:25

to get myself consciously connected in the right place?

1:28

Well, if you don't know this about me, I do

1:31

yoga and I've done yoga for about six

1:33

years. Had a wonderful interview last

1:35

year with Lisa coil , a yoga instructor in

1:37

Dallas, and she talked about how

1:39

the body can affect the

1:41

mind. It was a kind of a twist for me.

1:44

So you mean your physicality can

1:46

actually shift and change how

1:48

you think or how you feel.

1:51

So I'm so excited today. I have

1:53

a guest artist here that has, has

1:56

really enlightened me. She shared a wonderful book

1:58

with me. It's really about that.

2:00

How does my mind, how can I use my mind

2:02

to get myself consciously connected in the right place,

2:05

Jennifer? Good morning. How are you? Hey,

2:07

it's so nice to be here, Chris. So yeah, I'm

2:10

Jennifer rod , frankly. Good.

2:12

I'm glad you clarified your name. Cause

2:14

that's , it's , it's really, it's

2:16

very special for me to be here talking

2:18

about this specific

2:21

topic, you know, being a spiritual artist.

2:23

And what does that mean? It's not something

2:25

I usually talk about that much,

2:28

that openly, because spirituality

2:30

can be such an internal, private,

2:32

personal, intimate thing,

2:35

but I really have been enjoying

2:37

your book and the topic is

2:39

there's nothing more important to me in my

2:41

life. So it's exciting to me here.

2:44

Thanks. That's great. I, I,

2:46

I am excited to have you here. And like I said

2:48

, um , a couple of weeks ago, I checked

2:50

in and, and you recommended

2:52

this book by , uh , F M Alexander

2:55

on the Alexander technique and

2:58

it's called the, of the self.

3:00

And , and from what reading your bio, I think you

3:02

have incorporated some of this into your work. Um,

3:05

first I want to tell you, I love that, that title

3:08

they use of the self. How

3:10

do we use ourself ? So

3:12

could you explain it a little bit or share what you

3:15

Sure? Well, actually I'm a certified

3:18

Alexander technique teacher and

3:20

I use the Alexander technique

3:23

as my

3:25

way to teach the people

3:27

that I work with. I coached musicians

3:30

specifically and

3:32

, um, I do it hands-free,

3:34

which is a little unusual

3:37

Alexander technique is usually known as

3:40

a mind body discipline that helps

3:42

you do whatever you want

3:44

to do with more freedom and more

3:47

ease and more joy. But

3:49

it's traditionally taught hands on,

3:52

even though Alexander, who was

3:54

born in 1869, discovered

3:57

all these things for himself. He was

3:59

an actor who had a

4:02

hoarseness when he was on stage

4:04

. And that was a problem for him

4:06

as an actor. It wasn't going to be able

4:08

to have his career. Um, doctors couldn't

4:10

help him. Speech therapists didn't see

4:12

anything wrong with his vocal mechanisms. And

4:15

so he figured out he decided he

4:17

was going to figure out for himself what

4:19

the problem was, what was causing

4:22

his hoarseness. And

4:24

so he observed himself in mirrors,

4:27

which was very unusual at that time.

4:29

People didn't have full length mirrors and

4:32

he experimented to discover

4:34

what he was doing with

4:36

his thinking. And therefore

4:39

also with his body, what was he doing

4:41

to himself that

4:43

was causing him to get in the way

4:46

of his artistic expression using

4:48

his voice. And so he discovered

4:50

all these incredible things about

4:53

how we use ourselves.

4:56

And what's meant by that is,

4:58

you know, how do you use your

5:00

mind, your body, your, your

5:03

emotions, how do you use the organism

5:05

of being a human being in

5:07

this world? That's what he means by

5:10

that. And that's endlessly fascinating

5:12

to me and I help musicians,

5:14

you know, figure out what they're doing to get in their own way

5:17

and how to stop.

5:19

Well, I, I think that's amazing and

5:21

it's , uh , you're right. I watched some videos online

5:23

on YouTube and I saw people doing

5:25

physical adjustments to two

5:28

performers and I thought, well, how does she do

5:30

this online? You know , uh,

5:32

Doing it online actually since 2013.

5:36

And it way back then, there were literally

5:38

a handful of people in the world who

5:41

were experimenting with online teaching.

5:43

And it was, we were kind of like the black sheep

5:45

in the Alexander world because

5:48

it was just, so it was the next

5:50

evolution. And, you know, when people do

5:52

things that are new and different often

5:54

there's a backlash. So there was a pretty big

5:56

backlash against the few of us doing

5:58

that, even though what

6:01

we were doing then and what we're doing now,

6:04

what I do is going back

6:06

to the origins of the Alexander

6:08

technique, because Alexander did not

6:11

have a teacher. He didn't

6:13

have a teacher putting hands on him

6:15

to help him. He had

6:17

to figure it all out for himself. And

6:19

he was able to cure his physical

6:22

problems. QR has performance

6:24

issues, 100% by

6:26

using his thinking. So

6:29

he was able to realize

6:31

how his thinking was causing the problems

6:33

in his, his body. And he was,

6:35

he figured out how he needed to think

6:38

differently in order to get

6:40

different results. So the

6:42

hands on and the,

6:45

you know, more traditional way

6:47

of teaching Alexander technique didn't come until

6:49

much later. Most of the teaching he did

6:51

or all of the teaching, rather that he did

6:53

in the beginning and decades,

6:56

or I don't know how long exactly it was, but it

6:58

was many years. He didn't use his hands

7:00

on his students. Um, it wasn't until

7:02

much later when that was introduced, it

7:05

just made it easier to get the point

7:07

across when he was able to put his hands

7:09

on to show somebody. So

7:12

it , because it was easier. Um, and

7:14

it feels really good. So it became

7:16

really popular to use the hands on

7:18

, but you know , really the hands free,

7:21

the hands free hands off way

7:23

of learning and practicing. The Alexander

7:25

technique is more true to

7:27

the source, the original,

7:29

Well, you know, it's funny. I , I always find

7:31

this in any, in any discipline.

7:33

It's very interesting. People want to freeze

7:36

it. They want to freeze it in time. This

7:38

is how it works. And then 50 years

7:40

later, they don't want to move away from it. And I think that's

7:42

a human insecurity for us,

7:44

but I think the creative process, you know, I talk

7:46

about this in the book, but the creative part we're always

7:48

evolving and, and a technique

7:50

should always evolve. You know

7:52

, that leading edge, we're on the leading edge

7:55

of spirituality. We're always changing. So I

7:57

love the fact , um , when you talk about

7:59

touching, it reminded me of being in a yoga

8:01

class where my instructor would come by and

8:03

adjust to me, you know, I'm doing

8:06

downward dog and she addressed my back

8:08

with a gentle push of the hand. And so

8:10

, um, now did you, did

8:12

you come up with, did you look into this because

8:14

you played violin? What led you to this

8:16

technique?

8:17

That's an interesting question because actually

8:19

most musicians have heard of it. People

8:21

in the arts world world have heard of Alexander

8:24

technique. Um, and I

8:26

had tried it when I was back

8:28

at Indiana university doing my

8:31

music performance degree. Um, but

8:33

I didn't find it interesting in the least

8:35

at that time because

8:37

I had a teacher and I don't even remember

8:40

who she was. Um, I went

8:42

for a free lesson and I really

8:44

did not like it. Um, I don't,

8:46

I don't even know if she was a real Alexander

8:48

teacher, honestly, but

8:50

I said, Oh, no, I don't like this.

8:52

This is not for me. And it wasn't until

8:55

than a decade later where I came across

8:57

it again. And my second

8:59

try, I also, it didn't

9:01

work for me. And third

9:03

time around, I had neck pain and

9:06

nothing was helping. I

9:08

went to the doctor, regular

9:10

physician care, didn't help. I went to the chiropractor

9:13

that didn't help. It's like I

9:15

tried everything massage, just like nothing

9:17

got rid of this neck pain for me. And I

9:19

had a dear friend who

9:22

insisted, she said, Jennifer, you

9:24

just have to try this thing

9:26

again. The Alexander technique is amazing. I

9:28

know you would love it. And I said, Oh no,

9:30

I don't like that stuff. It's stupid. So

9:33

she insisted, thank God

9:35

because I found my

9:38

teacher, you know, I'm a violinist.

9:40

And as a musician, you know, musicians

9:42

know you don't just go to any

9:45

violin teacher. You don't just

9:47

go to any doctor you just,

9:50

but it's the same with the Alexander technique

9:53

and any technique you want to learn from somebody,

9:55

you have to find the teacher that clicks for you.

9:57

There has to be some kind of a chemistry there

10:00

where you're going to trust the teacher.

10:02

And also you has to be a good

10:04

teacher. So I found my teacher

10:06

and within the

10:09

first couple lessons, my neck pain had

10:11

completely disappeared. And

10:14

I kept taking lessons because

10:17

all of me started feeling

10:19

just incredible. And I couldn't believe

10:22

how much energy I was having

10:24

and how I was becoming happier.

10:26

And I remember being in the kitchen and

10:29

reaching up to a cupboard to

10:31

open it up and just marveling at

10:33

how easily my arm

10:35

was moving through space. And I

10:37

just was completely taken by what

10:40

this, what was going on, but I didn't

10:42

understand it. So I went

10:44

to the library and got all of Alexander's books

10:46

and read them all. And I thought, I need to understand

10:48

this. I understood the

10:50

books, but it didn't make sense when I went

10:52

to my lessons. So then I ended up doing a three

10:55

year teacher training to get certified

10:57

in teaching it, even though I never wanted to teach it.

11:00

I just wanted to figure out what was going on. Well,

11:02

let me, yeah.

11:02

If this, if this isn't too personal,

11:05

what , how did you walk through that? Cause you know, I've read the

11:07

book and I should tell you that in a

11:09

couple of weeks, I'm actually teaching a class on habits

11:12

and how, how do we, how do we stop a

11:14

habit? Which is why I find this

11:16

so interesting because he talks, he

11:19

talks about a process of when, because habits

11:21

are sort of automatic. We are, we are trained

11:24

into our habitual use through,

11:26

through our birth, through how we're raised or

11:29

our environment when we're very young. I , I,

11:31

that's how I read it very much . So , so

11:34

you have these neck pains. How did,

11:36

what did she do? I mean, how did she, or

11:39

he, how did they work? How did he

11:41

walk you through this process?

11:44

Hmm . So the way that the Alexander

11:47

technique is taught, whether

11:49

it's hands-on or hands-off,

11:52

we, there are certain universal principles

11:54

that we teach to . And

11:57

one of those principles is

12:00

that the mind and the body cannot be separated.

12:03

We call it mind, body unity and

12:07

love it . And then another principle is

12:09

a little more elusive. Uh

12:12

, we call it non-doing. Now

12:14

this is can get really confusing

12:16

here, but I'm going to do my best to try to explain

12:19

non-doing no , I'm excited.

12:21

I really look ahead. So we

12:23

are used to doing things

12:26

in the world and it's like, you want to

12:28

move your arm, you lift it up and you do it.

12:30

You want to go for a walk, you

12:32

go do it. You want

12:34

to make a million dollars to try

12:37

to do it and hopefully do it. Um,

12:39

but our whole culture is oriented

12:42

about making things happen

12:45

and trying to make them

12:47

happen and working hard

12:49

to make them happen. The

12:51

problem is that the way like, and

12:53

you mentioned habit, the

12:56

habitual way that we go about

12:58

doing things is

13:01

typically using more

13:03

effort than necessary, more

13:05

tension in the body. And

13:07

we have like overall excess

13:10

tension and we're done. We

13:12

don't even realize it because it feels normal.

13:15

So when you go to an Alexander teacher

13:18

and I'll just speak, you know, you asked about

13:20

what my teacher did, but I'll just, it's probably

13:22

easier for me to tell you what I

13:24

would do. If somebody were coming to me of

13:27

how I would do this is I help

13:30

my student to start

13:32

to really check in with themselves.

13:34

And it's like, if anybody, you know , whoever's

13:36

listening here, you know , to this podcast,

13:39

you can even do this for yourself right now. And Chris,

13:41

as you're sitting there, you can even just

13:44

like check in with yourself and ask yourself,

13:46

what am I noticing about my body

13:48

right now? And nine

13:50

times out of 10, when people really

13:53

stop to do that, they start to notice

13:55

a little twinge ages

13:57

, you know, a little pains. Maybe the neck is a little

14:00

sore, some back

14:02

pain or shoulder pain, nine

14:04

times out of 10, there's going to be some experience

14:07

that's sort of unpleasant

14:09

or uncomfortable. And then

14:12

through a process, I help my student discern

14:15

between parts of the body that have

14:17

some relative discomfort or

14:19

tension and other parts that

14:22

have relatively less tension or

14:24

more ease. And when you can discern

14:26

between those two different things in your

14:29

body, that you get to choose

14:31

where to put your attention and

14:33

what you focus on. You get more of, if you focus

14:36

on discomfort, things that aren't

14:38

working, things that are painful or hurting,

14:41

you will perpetuate that and get

14:43

more of that experience in your life.

14:46

Whereas the opposite is also

14:48

true, but people don't think

14:50

of it because it's not in our habit.

14:53

So if you can shift to

14:55

getting curious, curiosity

14:57

is a key here. If you can get curious

15:00

about asking yourself, well, where

15:03

in my body do I noticed,

15:05

I have noticed just a little bit of easing

15:08

happening. And then,

15:10

you know, I teach my students, you know, very,

15:12

very clear set of what we call

15:14

awareness etudes that come from

15:17

a primal Alexander, which is a new

15:19

way of hands-free teaching that I've been studying

15:21

for more than five years created

15:24

by me on Miralis. So it , you

15:26

talked about evolution of a technique. This is

15:28

the newest evolution of

15:30

that, where we have these awareness etudes,

15:32

so people can practice how to do this

15:35

themselves. So they don't, they're

15:37

not dependent on me as a teacher. They

15:40

can do it.

15:41

It's, you know, w when you talk about that, it reminds

15:43

me of where I first started noticing my body.

15:46

Um , and it was in yoga because we would do

15:48

yen where you hold a pose. And

15:50

, and I noticed it didn't happen. I noticed

15:53

how blind I was, honestly, when I first started

15:55

doing yoga, I was, well, I was blind

15:57

to my body. And so

15:59

I started noticing how I tend to punch my hand,

16:01

you know, like, like I'll be sitting there talking to someone

16:04

I'll look down and go, you're clenching your hands , where

16:06

you feel, you can feel it, like you said. So

16:08

I started doing what you call body checks.

16:11

You know, like when I'm doing the pose I go

16:13

through, is the neck released? Am I

16:15

holding it tense, you know, in , in , in which is

16:17

wonderful. Cause if you do it wrong, as you know,

16:22

you can, you can, you know, I'll do downward

16:24

dog. And then the next day I'm like, why am I having

16:26

back or neck pains ? Because I didn't

16:28

do it. Right . Right. And so I

16:30

love what you talk about that , um , checking

16:32

through those parts of your body and doing

16:34

a little. And, but how , how,

16:37

what do you mean by like going into what feels

16:39

right? That's is something new to me like, okay.

16:41

So right now my feet feel very relaxed.

16:43

How, how do I do

16:46

I just focus on that relaxation?

16:48

Right . Well, so there's a whole sequence. Um,

16:50

and actually I've put all

16:53

of my experience as a musician and

16:55

as an Alexander technique into a

16:57

broader context. And I call my

16:59

personal work, the art of freedom

17:02

method for conscious living

17:04

and masterful artistry. And so

17:06

I teach a sequence, you

17:08

know, very graduated sequence.

17:11

Um , that starts with what

17:13

I just shared with you just doing those check-ins

17:16

check-ins. But actually

17:19

most of us are,

17:22

like he said, we start out not

17:25

aware of our bodies kind of oblivious as

17:27

to what we're actually doing. Right

17:29

. Our bodies and our thoughts. And

17:31

then we start to pay attention

17:33

and then we're surprised, wow, I didn't know.

17:36

There was all this tension in my body now,

17:38

what do I do? And then you start

17:40

to notice more ease in your body if you have

17:42

this system of working with yourself. But

17:45

then actually what we really want

17:48

is to learn how to bring ourselves

17:50

up and free

17:53

ourselves from being stuck in

17:55

the body. There is like a transcending

17:57

of the body that happens without

18:00

excluding the body. And

18:02

this is actually for me personally,

18:04

a very spiritual process. Although

18:06

the Alexander technique is not a spiritual

18:08

method, but it's a support for

18:11

my spirituality in anybody who

18:13

wants to think of it that way, because it

18:15

supports you to do whatever you want to do better.

18:17

Right? So when I think of spirituality,

18:21

I think of the

18:23

inclusion of everything and how everything

18:25

is connected and integrated and whole.

18:29

And so when you think of the body, mind,

18:32

emotions, spirit, the

18:34

more we, the less we can

18:36

separate those aspects, the better. And

18:39

yet we tend to separate,

18:42

we're thinking of activities as mental

18:45

activities. Like maybe what we're doing right

18:47

now is mental, but now it's

18:50

also physical. And, and

18:52

so, but then we think of physical

18:54

activities like playing sports and

18:56

we think, well, that's not mental.

18:59

So we split things up. And then

19:01

also, and I , I love yoga. I've done a lot

19:04

of it over my , my life. Many,

19:06

many years of yoga is I know what you're talking about,

19:09

but the habit is to

19:11

go down with our awareness

19:13

into the body. And

19:16

there's nothing wrong with that , that, but

19:19

when your awareness goes down into

19:21

your body, you're no longer

19:23

fully present up here

19:25

in, you know, to get specific

19:28

the prefrontal cortex, which is

19:30

the controlling area of the brain,

19:32

where you make decisions and choices

19:34

, um, consciously it's the conscious

19:36

decision-making control center up

19:39

there. So if your awareness is down in your

19:41

feet or in your back, you're

19:43

not fully present to being able

19:46

to make changes consciously. So

19:49

what we're learning, and I know this gets kind of complicated,

19:51

but I want you to try best to simplify

19:54

it. You're following it really well. It's

19:57

like the organism is a

19:59

two way system. Like you have

20:01

the, you have a brain they're in your head,

20:04

it's a receptor. So

20:06

let's say you right now,

20:08

take your hand and tap on your forearm.

20:11

If you do that right now, actually,

20:13

why don't you just go ahead and do it right now? Do

20:17

you feel that yes . Did

20:19

you have to try to feel that? No.

20:21

No. Because your system works,

20:24

it's designed to, whenever

20:26

you need information about your feeling

20:29

now, any kind of, any, one of your senses,

20:32

it's designed to send information

20:35

up to your brain and your brain is the receiver

20:37

of that information. So

20:39

you don't have to go down to your body to feel

20:42

anything. You will feel everything

20:44

that you need to feel just

20:46

by staying up here in

20:48

the stratosphere of your brain

20:51

or even higher. And so, and

20:54

when you're up there, I think of it as the throne

20:56

room. It's like, I'm the queen

20:58

of me. You are the King of you, right?

21:01

If you can be up here in the throne room, you

21:04

can receive information from your

21:06

Mia. You're your minions down there,

21:09

your ministers , your feet, your hands

21:11

send up information, right?

21:13

And then you get to make decisions.

21:16

If you think, Oh, my my foot is tight

21:18

or I don't like that tension or that pain

21:20

or whatever, you can choose to

21:22

think differently and send different

21:24

directions up from your brain

21:27

to your body. But you don't have to go down

21:29

into your body to make things happen.

21:33

Hmm . So it's in a way it's about

21:35

being consciously aware a

21:37

hundred percent about that, of

21:39

your body. Yeah. Of yourself

21:42

up here . I love that word. They

21:44

use of the self , which I, which

21:47

I really like. So , um, you

21:49

know, it , you know, when I, in my book on talk about

21:51

painting, I won . That was a big step for me

21:53

is to realizing how your thoughts control, what you paint.

21:57

Um, so I like that you're saying it's a two

21:59

way street. So you said

22:01

you go outside above your,

22:03

there was something earlier you said, I want to follow up on. You

22:05

said, you go to the training

22:07

is to be with that , not in your body, but

22:11

above

22:12

You want to be fully

22:14

in your whole self.

22:17

And we are also energetic beings.

22:20

Yes. And I think that's even, you

22:23

know , scientifically proven now. And

22:27

so it's not so obvious

22:29

where you start and you

22:32

end, it's not just,

22:34

we don't end just at the external

22:36

layer of the skin. There

22:39

is. I mean, you even put your hand above a

22:41

person's body, you can feel the heat emanating.

22:44

And so there

22:47

is a

22:49

presence that we have that

22:51

is not just physical. And

22:54

if you can also include

22:57

that awareness, there

22:59

is, there's just more

23:01

to who we are then meets

23:04

the literal eye . And

23:06

there is some space above

23:09

the head and around the body.

23:11

And if you, I mean, this

23:13

is all the way I

23:15

teach is by helping my students

23:17

experiment. They don't have to take my word

23:19

for anything. I give them experience

23:21

experiments to try out what

23:24

happens if you think this way, what

23:27

results do you get? Do you like it? Great.

23:29

Keep doing it. Does it give you pain

23:32

while you might not like the pain? So you might want to think

23:34

differently. And so usually

23:36

we're stuck thinking we are

23:38

in this physical body and that's

23:41

what you see, what is what you get. And

23:43

that's it. But I don't that I

23:45

, I believe there's much more to

23:47

us than the physical body and the neurons

23:50

and the electrodes and the electric

23:52

circuit chemistry. And there's more

23:55

to us than that. And it's

23:57

not, that's beyond the physical,

24:00

Right. Well, well

24:02

, there's a lot of places to go with this conversation. Um,

24:06

and so I wanna , I , I , I

24:08

love the parts since it's, for me, it's applicable

24:10

to habit habits, you know? Um,

24:14

and I'm going to ask you a little bit about FM Alexander's

24:16

technique and then how you've evolved it. Um,

24:19

he says that when, okay, I'm going to give you a real life

24:21

scenario. So I started, I read

24:23

the book, I loved it and told you, I highlighted it with

24:25

my yellow highlighter

24:28

Relevant . You did that. It's great.

24:30

I just , I love it. And I've been talking to a friend

24:32

of mine about it, and, but I've realized, okay,

24:34

so we have these natural habits

24:36

that I think are, this is how I've translated

24:38

it. We have habits that are born into

24:40

us, through our family heritage. Well,

24:43

in my family, we, we

24:46

complain, you know, when we get together,

24:48

we sit around it's that East coast mentality

24:50

and, Oh my God, can you believe this politician?

24:53

And look at that and can you, how come they decorated

24:55

the, cut the broom that way? And what's wrong with that couch

24:57

? You know, it's this horrible habit. And

25:00

so I thought, okay, so my bad habit is

25:03

this complaining. And

25:05

so I try , I'm trying to apply the Alexander

25:07

technique, you know, his steps,

25:10

his steps. And I know that we can't cover

25:12

this whole process in a one hour

25:14

podcast, but just in , in a simplified,

25:17

simplified, simplified

25:19

form. Um, so I stopped.

25:21

Okay. What he says is when you were in that place.

25:23

So I walk in, I, I go into a room

25:26

and, Oh, look,

25:28

it's raining, comes to my head. So

25:30

when I see, when I, like you said, when I'm consciously

25:33

aware, I hear it. And I stop

25:36

before I say it. I don't say it, but

25:38

I feel like I want to say it. You know

25:40

, and what I love about him is he

25:42

says, Oh, I have to talk to you about

25:44

this. He says that we're comfortable

25:46

with things because

25:49

they are what we were raised with. So

25:51

for me, I'm very comfortable complaining.

25:54

It's, it's normal for me.

25:56

It is what I consider when I consider

25:59

that I'm in tune and I'm in my I'm being Chris.

26:02

That's the guy that goes around and makes funny jokes

26:04

and criticizes everything. That's right

26:06

. Yeah. But that's not who I want to be.

26:09

I don't, I don't want to be that. I want to be someone

26:11

that goes and raises the light and sees, see

26:13

spirit and God in everything around me. I don't

26:16

want to walk up and critique your blouse.

26:18

I want to be real and genuine. So I,

26:21

but what I love about, he says, it's the hardest thing about

26:23

breaking habits is that

26:25

it still feels right. It

26:27

feels right to be critical for me. That's

26:30

right . Because that's all I know. It's all

26:32

fun .

26:33

You know, you've been that you

26:35

your whole life. So how could you be different?

26:37

Right? It's like the drug addict

26:40

who takes drugs because they feel

26:42

good when they're doing it feels

26:44

right. They can logically know

26:46

they're killing themselves over time possibly

26:50

quickly, but it feels

26:53

good. So they do it. And

26:55

that's what we do. Our

26:58

habits of self, the

27:00

habits of being who we are

27:02

feels normal. And it feels

27:04

right. And it feels good. So

27:06

we keep doing it because

27:09

it's not rational. And those

27:11

habits are habits are basically

27:13

neurons that fire and wire together.

27:15

So many times that it's the go-to

27:18

response. It's it becomes instinctual.

27:21

It's like something

27:23

happens. You're triggered you. Do you go down?

27:25

Trust me, it's very hard. It's so

27:27

hard just for me to stop because

27:29

my mind, my mouth is open. That's

27:32

right before I think, you know, I'm like,

27:34

look at those curtains.

27:39

And this is a quote from Alexander. He

27:41

said, quote,

27:44

you can change the habits of a lifetime

27:46

in an instant if

27:49

you use your brains, but

27:51

nobody wants the discipline input.

27:55

And so, and I have found with

27:57

my practice of this over many years is that

28:00

it's a hundred percent true. You

28:02

can change the habits, any

28:04

habits that you have instantly in

28:06

that moment, what's

28:09

not so easy. And by the way,

28:11

this technique, I may not

28:13

, it may sound complicated, but when I actually

28:15

sit down and teach somebody, it's the simplest thing

28:17

in the world, and I can teach like all the principles

28:20

and the whole thing to somebody in a

28:22

day, or, you know , less than a day. It's so

28:24

simple. And it's so easy, but

28:27

what's not easy is to

28:29

remember to do it and to commit

28:31

to doing it and to practice it

28:34

with discipline. So here let's

28:36

take your example, which is a perfect example.

28:38

It's it's so good .

28:41

So do you want to experiment with this

28:43

for him ? Yeah, that's right.

28:45

And anybody listening, if you've got something like

28:47

this, you could just experiment along with us

28:49

here. So check

28:52

in with yourself right now and

28:54

just get curious about what you notice

28:56

in your body. And

28:59

if you notice any, I was

29:01

like, what , Chris, what do you notice right now when

29:04

you're sitting there?

29:05

Okay . I feel like my shoulders are tense up

29:07

around my throat. Um, I'm

29:09

in a chair. That's not ideal. So

29:11

I'm, I'm held , I'm slouched over a little

29:13

bit. So I feel a little tension in my shoulders. Um,

29:16

my feet do feel relaxed because

29:19

they're on the bar of the chair. So part

29:21

of me is relaxed and I love this conversation.

29:24

So in part of me is a little tense.

29:26

Okay, great. So let's, let's actually

29:28

pay attention to that part where

29:31

you notice a little bit of easing happening.

29:33

So your feet feel relatively comfortable

29:36

or relaxed. Is

29:39

there anywhere else in your body that feels relatively

29:42

comfortable or easy?

29:45

Oh , my hands are doing good right now.

29:48

All right . Is there anywhere

29:50

else that's easing up a little

29:52

bit.

29:53

Well, it's so funny. As I, as I focus

29:55

on it, I noticed what you were talking about earlier.

29:58

As I focused on my feet, I could actually feel a sigh

30:00

come through my whole body like that

30:03

release.

30:04

So you're starting to notice easing

30:06

happening overall, just

30:09

by getting curious about noticing

30:11

the ease . Okay. So let's continue

30:13

a little bit. Where

30:15

else do you notice a bit of easing?

30:19

Uh , my, my ears, my head, my

30:22

forehead's feels relaxed.

30:25

Now think about something

30:28

that's really annoying that you would want

30:30

to complain about right now.

30:34

Yes .

30:34

And what happens to your body when you

30:36

think about complaining like that? It

30:39

starts in my shoulders interesting,

30:45

Right. In my shoulders. And it goes to my jaw, my

30:47

jaw tenses. That's really

30:49

interesting. Yeah. Which

30:51

is where I would say it. Right.

30:53

That's right. So

30:55

the first thing, so what we're doing right now

30:58

is starting to link up how

31:01

you think and what happens

31:03

to your body when you think that way. So

31:06

go ahead and think some complaining thoughts. Again,

31:08

just go for it. You don't have to

31:10

say them out loud, but go

31:13

all, go all out and complain

31:15

right now. Notice

31:18

how it feels in your body.

31:21

I feel moved down to my lower back and

31:25

in my upper legs, not my calves,

31:27

but my thighs, like underneath

31:29

my thighs, there's a lot of tension there.

31:32

So would you say that your overall

31:34

self is going in the general direction

31:37

of more or less ease when

31:40

you complain?

31:42

Lessee's I mean , um , yeah. It's it's

31:44

it's. Oh, how interesting. Yeah,

31:46

I hear what you're.

31:48

Yeah , yeah. And my next question is, do you like

31:50

going in that direction?

31:52

No. It doesn't feel, it doesn't feel

31:54

good. Yeah.

31:55

So you said before that complaining

31:58

feels good, but

32:00

when you really get curious

32:02

about it and give yourself the chance, it's

32:04

like, instead of just saying, Oh, I shouldn't complain.

32:06

I should be different. What happens if you

32:08

actually let yourself get ? I

32:11

see, again, my work is called the art of freedom

32:14

for a reason, because I want you

32:17

and me and everybody to have the freedom

32:19

to be who they are. So

32:21

you're free to complain.

32:25

I give you total provision. Not that it's mine

32:27

, but you have

32:29

the total freedom to complain as much as you

32:31

want. And when you actually

32:33

let yourself do it and

32:36

you're get you get curious about what

32:38

happens to you when you do

32:40

that. Mia Morales calls that the primary

32:43

concern. If you ask yourself

32:45

what happens to me when I blank,

32:48

what happens to me when I complained , Oh gosh,

32:51

I didn't have any idea. My jaw got tight

32:53

and my back and my shoulders. I don't

32:55

like that maybe. And so then the

32:57

more you start to pay attention to

32:59

that, just through observing and

33:01

getting curious, without trying to change

33:03

the habit at all, you

33:05

actually will be more motivated

33:08

to choose a different way of thinking.

33:11

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So this is really so,

33:13

so you stop

33:16

and then you just reflect, you just feel

33:18

yourself, you, you, you , uh , feel

33:20

your entire self and see if it

33:23

is truly does it,

33:25

how it feels

33:27

Curious you , in fact here , what

33:29

is to know the truth about

33:31

what's actually happening in

33:34

the moment.

33:36

So there's several levels to this one

33:38

is you have to obviously be consciously self-aware

33:41

enough to, to be willing, to look

33:44

at your own self.

33:45

Yeah . And that didn't even take much anybody when

33:48

you just like, well, what do you notice in your body? Anybody

33:51

off the street?

33:54

Oh , I see what I was thinking is the habit. You have to

33:56

be able to see that it's that trick

33:58

of how do you , you know, for example, we

34:00

all know it's someone that's goes from bad relationship

34:02

to bad relationship to bad. And you're like,

34:04

well, how do they know when

34:07

, when they first have to stop and recognize that something's

34:09

not serving them? Yes . And

34:12

then they have to do this, which

34:14

I love. And, and , um,

34:18

I love how you phrase it, where you put your

34:20

focus and your consciousness into that part of

34:22

ease. And

34:25

it does indeed emanate

34:28

out.

34:29

Yeah. It's all about

34:31

where you put your attention and what

34:33

your intention is.

34:36

So let me go back to my yoga analogy,

34:39

what I've been doing right. And wrong.

34:41

Okay. So let me just stop you right there. Yeah . Okay

34:44

. Even the division into right and

34:46

wrong. Maybe

34:49

not the most helpful,

34:52

Ah , good point.

34:54

It's a very good point .

34:55

And that would just be something you could experiment

34:58

with too. It's like, how do you, what happens

35:00

to you when you think you're doing it wrong?

35:02

Oh, there you go. Because

35:05

I was going to say that I've been noticing

35:07

where I'm holding my attention. Like I'll

35:10

notice when I'm doing yoga, where , um , where

35:12

my, mostly my neck, I'm very guilty

35:15

of the neck holding tension in my neck

35:17

or, and, but ideally

35:20

recognizing the whole body. So,

35:22

so if I see the tension in my

35:24

neck, when I'm doing a downward

35:27

dog or doing the warrior

35:29

, uh, to recognize

35:31

the relaxation in other

35:33

parts and let it emanate

35:37

out and in verbally into the

35:39

neck as well.

35:40

Yeah. You can just get curious and ask

35:42

yourself this question. And

35:44

by the way, the words are really

35:46

important in the process

35:49

that I teach. Um, and again,

35:51

this part of what I do is called

35:53

primal Alexander. And I always want to give credit

35:55

where credit is due. Uh, but

35:58

using the exact words that Mia Morales

36:00

came up with, and it's always evolving.

36:02

This is the latest iteration because it works the best

36:05

right. Specific questions. And we call

36:07

this constructive thinking. The

36:09

specific question you want to just get

36:11

curious about asking yourself is where

36:13

else do I seem

36:16

to be easing a bit. And

36:19

then, so if you're doing your yoga pose and

36:22

you notice a bit of tightness or something,

36:24

it's like, Oh, well, that's interesting. It's

36:26

not that I'm doing it wrong. It's just interesting.

36:28

Wow. I'm curious about that. And

36:30

I wonder where in my

36:32

body do I seem to be easing

36:35

a bit, so then you get curious and

36:37

you'll find a little ease somewhere and then ask,

36:39

where else do I seem to

36:41

be easing a bit though

36:43

? So the first thing that I teach my students is something

36:46

called the cycle. It's a two

36:48

minute awareness etude created

36:50

by meal Morales. Um,

36:53

and I have a video of it on YouTube

36:55

that anybody can go watch. It's , it's just

36:57

a free two minutes. It's a 15 minute tutorial

36:59

that teaches you how to do the cycle, where

37:02

it's kind of meditative. There's not move

37:05

much movement at all involved,

37:08

but it kind of helps

37:10

you develop that new

37:12

habit. So to speak of

37:15

asking this question, where else

37:17

do I seem to be easing a bit? And

37:19

I always warn people because

37:21

we're so prone to go

37:23

into feeling that people 90,

37:26

90% of people will change the words

37:28

and put feel into there

37:31

instead of where do I seem to be

37:33

easing a bit they'll substitute

37:35

the word feel or feeling. And so

37:37

I just don't do that.

37:40

Okay. I won't use that word,

37:43

But yeah, you can, you can experiment and see what

37:45

happens when you ask yourself that question,

37:47

when you're doing your yoga and

37:49

also catch yourself, and this is not

37:51

just you, but everybody out here

37:54

in this world, we are so good at judging

37:56

ourselves and being hard on ourselves

37:58

and putting, separating the

38:01

good from the bad and the right from the wrong.

38:03

And it , when we

38:05

separate things like that, it

38:08

creates conflict. And when

38:10

you have conflict, you have more tension.

38:13

And if you don't want that kind of tension, which

38:15

down the road leads to pain, physical,

38:17

and emotional, and all

38:19

kinds of suffering. If you don't want that,

38:22

then it might be worth

38:24

getting curious about how to

38:27

be more inclusive in

38:29

how we look at things. And, you know , notice

38:31

what happens when we judge ourselves,

38:34

what happens to the ease in

38:36

us? And do we like that?

38:39

Usually we don't.

38:42

So , you know , I love it because people

38:46

ask me why I wrote my book and

38:48

it was about identifying what I call spiritual

38:51

principles. And that's the spiritual

38:53

principle of not, you know, don't judge

38:56

and yeah. Yeah.

38:58

And, and so I wrote it in the book and

39:01

my reasoning being, when someone asks me, why did you

39:03

write the book? It's like , because I forget, I

39:05

forget these principles. You know, I sit

39:07

there and I go, okay, right. I'm supposed to be careful about

39:09

the words I use. I'm supposed to be careful about.

39:11

But boy, if I don't forget that, sometimes

39:15

I say , I call it being in my humanness,

39:18

I'm having a human moment. And , and

39:20

, and so I look at that book and , uh , and

39:22

so all these things you're saying , I'm like, yes,

39:24

I I've talked about being careful

39:27

with word choice. I've talked about judgment.

39:29

And even, even I have a chapter on focus

39:31

on what's working when

39:34

you're painting. So I talk about when you're

39:36

doing an artist , focus on the area, see,

39:38

I spent my years focusing on the rest of the

39:40

canvas that wasn't working. This doesn't

39:42

look good, but if you focus on what's working,

39:45

I think what you're saying is you

39:47

feel it in on, or

39:49

it's an intuitiveness that flows through your whole body

39:52

and suddenly that relaxed state comes

39:55

out and I can share it with bigger

39:57

parts of the canvas in a way.

39:59

Right. Well, and as a musician,

40:02

I mean, we haven't talked about that at all,

40:04

but because I, I have like this double

40:06

life, but it's , it's all right .

40:09

It is all connected, but right. Yeah .

40:12

My artistry is in teaching

40:15

all the things that we've been talking about, but then my

40:17

artistry is also, yeah . Maybe

40:19

even more in how I bring

40:21

myself to the violin

40:24

and make music that way. And

40:26

it's just what you're talking about. It's the same

40:29

as painting.

40:31

So,

40:32

And for me, it's just

40:35

absolutely incredible and really

40:37

miraculous to have the skills

40:39

that I've picked up through

40:42

out the Alexander technique, those principles

40:45

and my own personal spiritual practice

40:47

of course is a huge part of it, but

40:49

putting it all together and having those tools

40:52

and those universal principles

40:54

and knowing how to apply those

40:56

practically, when I

40:58

approached my violin, I've

41:01

been doing it, I'd say

41:04

I'm seriously is not the right word, but yeah ,

41:07

I've been doing it with

41:08

A lot of interest for

41:11

the last two years on a regular

41:13

basis. I mean, I've been a violent as my

41:15

whole life. I've played in Carnegie hall.

41:17

Four times we've won international competitions,

41:20

all that stuff. But,

41:22

But if I had known

41:24

What I know now from the Alexander

41:26

technique, when I was a teenager

41:28

or in college for music, it's,

41:31

it's just unbelievable. What's possible.

41:33

It's like there are no limits to what's possible

41:36

dependent except, you know, the only

41:38

limits are what we can imagine and what we

41:40

intend and what we want. I

41:42

think

41:44

So in a lot of that, like you're saying a lot of, it's a

41:46

start in your mind. I mean, you

41:48

know, being able to step back

41:50

and look at the whole process and watching

41:52

your thoughts, I'm sure the same thing when I'm critical

41:54

of a painting, your credit , you might

41:56

be playing and critical. Oh, I hit the wrong note

41:59

or how am I holding that? The

42:01

instrument correctly, you know , uh , stepping

42:05

back from that judgment and that harshness

42:07

, um, choosing softer language

42:10

Very much, right ? I like

42:12

to think of the , the artist freedom method

42:14

as a subtraction method

42:16

where I'm actually learning.

42:19

And this is, this goes for the Alexander technique,

42:21

of course, as well. It's like, we're learning

42:23

how to use the mind

42:26

to get the mind out of the way,

42:29

because actually inspiration.

42:33

It depends how you define the mind. Um,

42:37

but it, I don't think of inspiration

42:39

with a capital I as coming

42:42

from my personal

42:44

little mind with a lower case , M

42:48

I would think of inspiration

42:50

more. If we're going to use the word mind,

42:52

it would be like universal mind

42:54

or , uh , spirit

42:57

was another word that I like to use

42:59

that it doesn't really

43:01

matter to me so much. What word

43:04

is used? I like spirit

43:06

because most people can identify

43:08

with that. Um, like the spirit

43:10

of love where creative spirit

43:13

artists can identify with that, whether

43:15

they're religious or not, we all

43:17

know that there's a , a special something. There's

43:19

a spark, there's a something

43:22

special that happens when you

43:25

allow that creative

43:28

spirit to come through. And

43:30

I grew up without religion without any kind

43:32

of an awareness of spirituality

43:35

whatsoever. And yet

43:37

I still knew that

43:40

there was, I mean, it's even

43:42

in the classical music literature, you're talking

43:44

about words. I mean, this in

43:47

Italian is [inaudible] right.

43:49

That's a musical term. And so

43:51

as a kid, I knew, you know, we play

43:53

it with concert , with spirit conspirator,

43:56

and I didn't think that was religious

43:58

or spiritual, but I knew that I needed to

44:00

play it with spirit. So I think we

44:02

have that innate ability

44:04

to connect with inspiration

44:07

or spirit or love, like with

44:09

a capital L. And

44:12

we can use the mind to get

44:14

to the point where we can

44:16

connect with that. But

44:18

then the mind has to get out of the way it

44:22

like takes a back seat. It's not like we're

44:24

annihilating the mind. It's always

44:26

going to be there because we are thinking beings, but

44:29

we have to know how to master

44:32

the mind, like master our thoughts.

44:34

We have to know what we're thinking, and then

44:36

make conscious choices in every moment

44:38

that we remember to choose the thoughts

44:41

that are actually going to help us connect

44:44

and live the way we want and

44:46

make the art and be

44:48

the people that we want to be.

44:51

Oh, I love it. I , I , um, first

44:54

I , do you, have you written a book about your method?

44:57

Not yet. I hear it. It's coming. It's

45:01

coming. I have a ,

45:03

My recordings right now.

45:05

I will tell you that my mind, my greater

45:07

mind just told me she's got a book

45:09

coming. I hear a book

45:11

coming, but you

45:14

got it. You have it in you. I can hear it.

45:16

And I love it. I love it. And

45:18

, um, if you just same thing, when

45:21

you sit in front of the typewriter or computer, just,

45:24

just snip in and pretend you're talking

45:26

to someone and you have a book because

45:28

it's just incredible. Um,

45:32

thank you . Yeah,

45:33

Well, again, it's ideas . There's

45:35

nothing new under the sun. It's not like I

45:37

made any of it up. It's all, you know , things

45:40

that I've learned from various

45:42

disciplines. And, you

45:44

know , the only thing that I'm doing is kind of synthesizing

45:47

these things into my own way of

45:50

teaching musicians and helping myself

45:52

as a musician, the art of freedom method,

45:54

but Alexander was genius

45:57

for sure. And those units , but he

45:59

didn't invent anything either. He

46:02

discovered universal principles

46:04

and put them into a system. And,

46:08

yeah , it's wonderful that we have that because we don't

46:10

have to do all that. Um,

46:13

we don't have to find it all out for ourselves

46:15

by standing in front of full length mirrors

46:17

for years, like

46:19

And said , I thought about that after I read this,

46:21

I thought maybe I should put mirrors in

46:23

my painting studio. You know, wouldn't that

46:25

be interesting just to watch why

46:27

my body painting,

46:30

But you know what we have video, which is even

46:32

better because you can go back in time

46:34

and really see from the outside what's going

46:36

on.

46:37

It would be an interesting exercise

46:39

in my next book. Absolutely

46:43

students do this. Oh, do they?

46:46

Well, how fascinating they don't have to,

46:48

Nobody has to do anything. Do they

46:50

Actually record themselves? Well , which I

46:53

, and see , you know, what's funny though, you , you can almost understand

46:55

that with an instrument. And yet I

46:57

don't know of any painters that do that, you

47:00

know,

47:01

Very interesting for you to do that.

47:04

And , and even you think about someone in a pottery wheel,

47:07

they, you know, what a wonderful teaching

47:09

tool to watch how their body is

47:11

holding their hands around that clay.

47:14

Exactly. Too much tension, too much.

47:17

Right?

47:18

One of the major discoveries

47:20

that Alexander made was

47:22

by watching himself in the mirror, he,

47:25

after a lot of trial and error

47:27

over a long time, he finally that

47:29

he was interfering with the

47:31

natural design of his

47:34

movements by,

47:36

by increased tension between

47:39

his head and neck. And that's kind of a

47:41

key place. The neck,

47:44

it's not the only place because tension

47:46

is overall. You can't just separate

47:48

a separate one part of the body, but he discovered

47:51

that he was introducing a lot of

47:53

tension into that neck area.

47:56

But then he thought, well, I just have to stop doing

47:58

that. And then he

48:00

felt like he wasn't doing it anymore,

48:02

but then he could see in the mirror that he was still doing

48:05

it. And then it got really complicated. Then

48:07

he had to do a lot more work

48:10

on himself and experimenting until he

48:12

finally realized he couldn't trust

48:14

his sense of feeling. And

48:17

that's one of the principles of the technique

48:19

also called faulty sensory

48:21

appreciation where you think

48:24

you're doing something, because it feels one

48:26

way kind of back to what you said before the

48:28

habit feels right. And

48:30

so you don't think there's anything wrong with it. You can go around

48:33

with your left shoulder, three inches higher

48:35

than the right shoulder and think that everything's

48:37

normal. And I've

48:40

seen this. People will look at themselves

48:42

in the mirror and not notice that

48:45

there's anything wrong because that's just what

48:47

they see every day. So

48:49

then it gets really tricky and why

48:51

it's really helpful to have an outside

48:53

more objective source,

48:55

at least in the beginning, until you learn how

48:57

to see what needs to be

49:00

seen. And that's where the

49:02

teacher comes in to give more objective

49:04

feedback and a method for how to see

49:07

what to look for and how to

49:09

experiment with your thinking.

49:12

I'm so glad you just said that again. Cause

49:14

I think it it's worthy of reviewing

49:16

because as I was looking at it as the

49:18

habit of criticizing , um, what

49:21

, let me ask you something about that publican . Cause

49:23

he he's, he's wonderfully , um,

49:26

talented, but his writing is very hard.

49:28

That's actually the easier book you

49:30

wrote in the Victorian era. And there are

49:33

paragraphs that are just hundreds of words

49:35

long. And it's just one sentence.

49:38

I know. I seriously, I like to go through and paint

49:40

out right now . I like to

49:42

go pick a highlight now verb, just give

49:44

me the crux here. But , um,

49:46

but one of the things I was going to ask you as

49:49

that when you, cause he said he did have a hard time,

49:51

he ha he said, it's really hard

49:54

to break a habit, which

49:56

we all know. Um, did he

49:58

suggest that you insert

50:01

a different habit? Is that, did I

50:03

read that or so is

50:05

there, how , how , how out of

50:07

that? How do you get yeah.

50:09

Yeah. So when it comes down

50:11

to it, the habit, and this goes

50:13

back to what I was trying sort

50:16

of successfully sort of unsuccessfully to

50:18

explain before about non-doing the

50:21

habit is,

50:24

and th this will make more sense if

50:26

you have a, you

50:29

will, let's

50:31

say you let's say you notice something

50:33

in your body that you don't like, maybe

50:36

your foot hurts or something. Our

50:39

habit is to try

50:41

to do something about it, to change

50:43

it right away. Like we

50:46

want to change it. And so we're going to

50:48

do something about it. The

50:50

problem is, and I'm sure pretty

50:52

much anybody listening will relate to this.

50:54

If you've had any kind of pain and you've tried

50:56

to fix it, maybe you massage

50:59

it and it feels better for a few sessions seconds,

51:01

and then it comes back or maybe

51:03

it feels better for a day. And then it comes back

51:06

violinists. We raise our

51:08

left shoulders and squeeze with the jaw

51:10

to hold the violin there. And a

51:13

teacher can tell you every week

51:15

that your shoulder is too high and you're squeezing

51:18

and you will not be able to let

51:20

go of that for more than a few seconds

51:22

or minutes. And then it comes right back. But

51:25

our instinct is to try to do something

51:28

and it just doesn't work.

51:30

It's like, if you try to relax part of your body,

51:32

you can do that for a moment, but the tension

51:34

is going to come right back. Right.

51:38

So then, and what Alexander is saying

51:40

is like, the definition of

51:42

stupidity is to keep doing

51:45

the same thing over and over again, and expect

51:47

a different result. But that's what

51:49

we do whenever we notice something we

51:51

don't like about ourselves or about

51:53

the world around us, we try to do

51:55

something to fix it. So

51:58

the only other alternative is

52:01

to not do

52:03

something, to try to fix it immediately.

52:06

And perhaps we

52:09

can think about it differently,

52:11

which of course is doing something. I mean, it's

52:13

not so black and white, but it's doing

52:15

something radically different

52:18

by just, you know, like stepping

52:20

back and getting curious about

52:22

it without trying to fix it, just

52:24

gather more information, be a scientist,

52:26

be a detective of yourself. What's

52:29

happening to me right now. And it's back

52:31

to where we started. It was like, what am I noticing?

52:34

What else is happening? Other than

52:36

that foot pain? Oh, I didn't notice

52:38

that my right thigh is also

52:40

tight. Okay, interesting. No

52:42

judgment. That's also changing a habit.

52:45

No judgment. This pain is not

52:47

necessarily bad. In

52:49

fact, Alexander said, pain is your

52:51

friend. How can that be? It

52:53

hurts. But pain

52:56

is just your body kindly

52:58

and lovingly giving you the information.

53:00

You need to do something different, which

53:02

is to let go and not do the old thing,

53:05

which is to judge it, make it wrong,

53:07

bad, try to make it go away,

53:09

fix it, change yourself. So

53:12

the only the alternatives is

53:14

to just not do

53:17

just notice, observe, get

53:19

curious. Wonder, I

53:21

love the word. Wonder, just wonder about

53:23

it. But something

53:26

that, you know, we do specifically

53:28

in Alexander technique is some , is called constructive

53:31

thinking. So you can

53:33

do constructive thinking,

53:36

which is what I shared with you before

53:38

ask yourself, well, where

53:40

is there a bit of easing happening

53:43

right now? I've got pain there. Yes.

53:45

Okay. That's part of me right now, but where

53:48

is there less pain? Where is there

53:50

less tightness? Where

53:52

is there less discomfort in my life?

53:55

And then when you get curious about that, everything

53:58

starts to shift without you having to do

54:00

anything about it. And I've

54:02

had so many students, I can't even

54:04

tell you who have, like

54:07

, I can think of two right now that I'm working

54:09

with, whose doctors told them decades

54:11

ago, they would always have pain. And

54:14

what a horrible thing to be told that

54:16

you'll always have pain. And this is

54:18

because of, you know, scoliosis

54:20

, um , chronic fatigue syndrome , um,

54:23

major, major structural

54:26

problems in the spine. The

54:28

, so they believe their doctors, of course, you

54:30

know , most people do. And yet

54:33

just after a few months of doing

54:35

this process that I'm sharing with them, they're

54:38

pain free. They have no pain

54:41

left. And if it does start

54:43

to come back because we

54:45

are still who we are and there are still going

54:47

to be residues and tendencies.

54:50

So if the pain starts to come back, they

54:52

have tools and they know exactly what to do

54:54

differently, which is like

54:56

to not do. And it , you know , do

54:59

a little constructive thinking and wonder, and

55:01

they have , um, you know, the daily

55:03

practices for just a couple of minutes, a day

55:05

of awareness etudes and the system

55:08

that I teach them and it works.

55:10

So two , we will leave . You'll

55:12

let, if you give me that , uh, address

55:15

for those daily etudes, I'll put that

55:17

in the bio of this podcast for people.

55:19

Yeah. The cycle is the one that I have there

55:21

on YouTube, but I will definitely

55:24

Right . Second, I think one of the things I was thinking

55:26

about what you were talking about is Ecker toll talks

55:28

about being the observer , um,

55:31

and, and just being present

55:33

to it. Um, similar , uh,

55:36

he, you know, like if you're, if you're upset or

55:39

in pain, he actually says that.

55:42

Yeah , that's interesting. Yeah.

55:44

The pain bodies is just observe it , um,

55:48

without judgment and it's,

55:50

it's a fine, it's a fine line. It's an interesting

55:52

thing. And it does take practice

55:56

Just stopping there

55:58

is because there's the negative,

56:00

which is like, stop. Don't

56:02

do. But then there's also the positive,

56:04

it's the yin yang. Right. And

56:06

there's the pausing, but then there's the constructive

56:08

thinking that you can do.

56:11

What's interesting. We go, we go back to my habit of

56:13

being critical. So

56:16

I stop . And then I just watch

56:18

, well, isn't this interesting here I am in this room

56:20

with a bunch of people and I

56:22

just back and go , I'm noticing, why am I noticing

56:25

that? And not this, you know, I might even

56:27

say to myself, why am I not noticing how beautiful the

56:29

birthday cake is on the table instead, I'm noticing

56:31

the tablecloth and I don't

56:33

judge it. I just think that interesting. Interesting.

56:37

And it's almost like I'm stepping back from the

56:39

small me, you know , you know , the

56:41

small Chris that you just mentioned earlier.

56:43

Cause I love that. I used that a lot and going

56:46

look how small Chris wants to

56:48

claim his space or he wants

56:50

to show that he's in control by critiquing

56:52

something. And, and , and then almost

56:54

like the desire itself. It's

56:57

not that I change it or replace

56:59

it. It just kind of fades away. Right?

57:02

Yeah . So you , you shift your

57:03

Effective. Yeah.

57:05

Because everything, we are infinite

57:07

creatures, like we have everything

57:09

in us. It's like you have small

57:12

Kris and infinite Kris inside you and

57:14

which one do you want to pay attention to? And

57:17

if you pay attention to small Chris and do

57:19

it his way, well, you're free to do

57:21

that. But do you like the results you get?

57:24

Usually not. So then you might just consider,

57:27

well, what would happen? Let's do an experiment.

57:29

What would happen if I get curious about infinite,

57:32

Chris what's Inc infinite, Chris, like, and then you might

57:34

be like, well, I don't know this,

57:37

but you don't even have to know. It's like just

57:39

opening up to all possibility and

57:41

wondering,

57:43

Well, you know, Jennifer, you just clarified, you just

57:45

helped me understand what he was trying to say. And

57:48

, and, and, and that imagine

57:50

the different solutions that you just so

57:54

you know, very good because

57:56

now I see what you're talking about. Yeah. Just sit back and go,

57:58

well , what about this scenario or this scenario?

58:00

Or what about this? And yeah,

58:03

Actually what you were looking at in that chapter,

58:06

and this is the chat . I don't

58:08

have my students read Alexander, except

58:10

if they want to, I say, go read

58:12

evolution of the technique, which is

58:14

that one chapter in the book called the use

58:16

of the self, which you are reading, which was perfect.

58:19

Yeah . It's the hardest one. It's the it's dense, it's

58:21

dense

58:23

Because he describes exactly what he did

58:26

and how he came to his conclusions. And

58:28

so we can do what he did and

58:31

the thing and what it comes down to is

58:33

that he realized he only had three

58:35

choices. We all only

58:38

ever have three choices. We can,

58:41

if you have an intention or it's like , you're doing

58:43

something, you can go ahead and do it.

58:45

You can not do it. Or

58:48

you can do something else. And

58:51

so his process entailed,

58:54

choosing to not do it and

58:57

to make it specific. What he wanted to

58:59

do was observed himself speaking, because

59:01

he would get horse every time he went to speak

59:03

, um, performing. So

59:06

he had the intention, the idea

59:08

I want to speak, but

59:11

his habit was, Oh, I know how to speak.

59:13

So I'm just going to speak. And I do it in the old way.

59:15

And then I get horse . So if you want

59:17

to change the habit, he realized

59:20

he needed to himself

59:22

from doing that habit. And at first he just

59:24

needed to give himself the

59:26

idea of speaking, but then choose

59:28

something different, which was, do

59:31

nothing instead don't speak

59:33

or do something completely different, like do

59:35

a jig. Right. But don't speak.

59:38

So, you know, it was a long involved process.

59:41

And, but it , it worked

59:43

because he was able to short

59:46

circuit, the neurons

59:48

firing, you know , instantly into

59:50

habit causing hoarseness . He

59:52

was able to stop as soon

59:54

as he had the intention, not

59:57

act on his intention and

59:59

then she's to do something different. And

1:00:01

now we know a very quick

1:00:04

and very easy way to do it because we don't

1:00:06

have to go through everything. Alexander did. All

1:00:08

we need to do is observe,

1:00:11

have an intention, watch what happens and

1:00:14

choose to do some constructive thinking instead. And

1:00:17

that's the system of course, that I teach was which

1:00:19

obviously I can't share it all.

1:00:21

No, I know. I feel like, so there's

1:00:24

so much to talk about and I , and I , and we're

1:00:26

winding it down and yet there's so much to talk

1:00:28

about and , and you know, I, I

1:00:31

could go on and on. And when you talk about that, choose

1:00:33

something different. What I decided to do is

1:00:35

when I feel that impulse to be critical

1:00:38

to change the subject, it's

1:00:41

just to change the subject.

1:00:42

You can do that and

1:00:46

that can work, but

1:00:48

it's even more, it's

1:00:50

deeper than that because it's how

1:00:53

you do whatever it is that you're choosing to

1:00:55

do. So if you,

1:00:57

instead of doing the criticizing,

1:00:59

you paused and asked yourself

1:01:02

where in my body do I notice a bit of easing,

1:01:05

that's really changing the habit.

1:01:08

Oh , good. I'm practicing. I'm

1:01:10

definitely going to practice it. So try it and

1:01:12

let me know, let me know what I have . And

1:01:14

I'm going to listen to this podcast

1:01:16

several times and make sure I get this down right.

1:01:19

Because I love it. I love it. So thank you.

1:01:21

Thank you so much for joining

1:01:23

me on this podcast. Like I said, it's just

1:01:26

fascinating.

1:01:28

Yeah . It's been really fun for me to , I

1:01:30

there's nothing. I love more than to talk about

1:01:33

this process because it's about

1:01:35

taking an idea and getting out

1:01:37

of the way and letting that inspiration

1:01:40

come through in whatever discipline

1:01:42

somebody is in.

1:01:43

That's the amazing thing you talk about unity

1:01:46

here. I've come to this through painting. You've

1:01:48

come through it through playing musical instrument

1:01:51

and yet look at the, look at the

1:01:53

similarities. And it's the same. It's

1:01:56

the same. All right

1:01:58

.

1:01:58

Thank you so much, Chris, for having me,

1:02:00

this was such a pleasure,

1:02:02

Right? Thank you. And I look forward to

1:02:05

having you back on after you write that book.

1:02:09

As I said, I need to work on my recordings first,

1:02:11

but I'm hoping to have my, my first

1:02:13

professional violin solo recordings

1:02:16

coming out in the next, possibly next

1:02:18

month. So anybody's curious

1:02:20

About that. I should be on Spotify, but

1:02:22

all right. We'll put the link on the, for your

1:02:24

, for your performance as well, because I think

1:02:27

it's what we're , we are multi-faceted creatures

1:02:30

and we can be both. We

1:02:32

can be, you know , intellectually teachers

1:02:34

and we can also be artists, you

1:02:36

know ? Thank you, Chris. This is such a pleasure.

1:02:39

Thank you for listening to the spiritual artists

1:02:41

podcast, whether you're following

1:02:43

the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify

1:02:46

or Google podcast, make sure

1:02:48

you choose the subscribe button. So you

1:02:50

receive new segments when they're released.

1:02:53

Plus check out my new book, the spiritual

1:02:55

artist now available on amazon.com

1:02:59

in the meantime, be still listen

1:03:02

and know that you are a spiritual

1:03:05

artist .